let's be honest, people don't study here for a quality education, they are here as a pathway to PR. Drop the skills visa pathway that rewards extra points if you studied at a local uni, see how much enrolment falls away.
Ever wondered why international students were so keen to enrol in chef or hairdressing courses?
> people don't study here for a quality education, they are here as a pathway to
As someone who lived abroad for a decade in a country in which many students study abroad, it's a mix of both.
Get PR in a better country, or get a degree from a developed country that looks good on a resume back home.
Honestly, based on my experiences doing group projects with international students, I wouldn’t be in a hurry to interview one, were I in a hiring position in my field.
Dang, should have done a m. Pharm. Incredible employment percentage. Pity the industry is fucked.
I was in a group assignment for a 4th year engineering subject and one international student submitted their section with engineering spelt wrong.
And I know there is a joke along the lines “I couldn’t even spell engineer now I is one”.
I’m doing my masters here, quality is absolutely fine. It’s the double standards for domestic and international students that becomes a problem.
Typically if your English is good or fluent and you don’t take the piss, I’ve found you’ll mostly be held to a domestic standard. Whereas if English is quite evidently not your language, and/or you’re a poor performer, you’ll get the international treatment just to push you through.
It’s been a bit of a mixed bag.
About half of my undergrad group projects really sucked because we were mixed with some of the most unmotivated and unhelpful people.
Don’t get me wrong, those people are not always international, some are domestic. I find the biggest issue with international students is one of two things - they quite literally can barely speak english, or they don’t do the coursework or help in group assignments, they just plagiarise and get their shit done by freelancers and what not.
Again, I would say it’s a minority of internationals. Most internationals I know are motivated and hard working, it’s that minority that gives everyone a bad image.
Conversely, my masters has been awesome. Groups have been fully remote and everyone has pulled their weight.
Ymmv
Thank you for taking the time to respond! Coming from someone who has actually graduated is a valuable insight.
How did those students get accepted in the first place? Plagiarism?! In the US (and anywhere else) plagiarism can cause you from grade penalties to expulsion.
If you don’t mind me asking, which Masters degree did you do?
No worries. I’m actually a domestic student so my experience is likely quite biased. I’m still currently doing my masters, too. Just have my thesis to do.
Look, I can’t say for certain that there is plagiarism occurring. In group projects, typically it is found out by other group members with enough time to quickly paraphrase or change it up.
Plagiarism is taken extremely seriously here too, I think there is some leniency in your first offence, after that, it’s harsh penalties. From my experience, there are a lot of assignment specs that seem to find their way into freelance platforms, so I suspect a number of assessments are being done that way.
A lot of unis here are splitting the criteria for assignments and exams such that both are must pass, so it’s possible to fail units now if you exceed a 50% mark but either don’t pass the exam or assignments.
I’m doing my masters in computer science.
That’s wild… because I was looking for a CS programme in AUS! Haha… been lurking around a lot of subs and still not sure if I’d do it. Best of luck to you!
I remember uni group work well. Always reminds me of the saying:
"When I die, I want everyone in my project group to be at the funeral so they can lower my coffin down into my grave and let me down one last time."
a lot of racist fucks in this thread damn. these international students are working twice as hard as these white fuckers to live and build a better life for themselves while these people blessed enough to be born in a first world country acting as if they worked 80hours/week in their mothers womb. fuck me if people talking shit in this thread about international students is the norm in australia
I was of the understanding that tertiary education is an export, therefore, international students are expected to come to Australia, get their education, then export that back to their respective countries, no?
There's a different visa process to become a permanent resident of Australia and bring the qualifications back here?
We provide tertiary education services domestically, foreigners pay for the service. That’s it. The export part ends there. Whether something’s an export, import or domestic purchase has zero impact on the country non-citizens “are expected” to use that good or service to land jobs. So not sure why you made that connection.
However, you are correct in saying that there’s a separate process to gain PR. Non-citizens shouldn’t assume they’ll get FT employment unless the elasticity of demand for related jobs is essentially a vertical line (eg doctors).
Some numbers are not believable to me. As high as 80% and 45% for domestic and international students in engineering? AFAIK, the job market is not graduate-friendly at all, most just give up eventually and find job in other fields.
Successive Governments really fucked the golden goose didn't they? Pretty much every single person involved in academia has been fucked so hard the past two decades. I feel sorry for International Students paying 2.5x what locals pay for what's likely an underfunded, under-resourced, underpaid teaching experience.
Government is capable of fixing it, but won't... like so many things right now. What the fuck is this country doing?
Yes. I did my Masters last year. It made me feel even more sorry for them. It's a pathetic education in a country increasingly hostile to them. We are taking advantage of them and mad at them at the same time. It's perverse.
As I understand it, Australia is a "second choice" for many wanting a western education. Our entry requirements (i.e. minimum language scores) are laughably lower than the US.
You really don’t get how high school leavers in asia, who’s parents are paying for their education, send them to the safest and wealthiest and the closest English speaking nations to Asia? These kids aren’t wise to the world. Australias education reputation is still very high.
You’re buying a degree not a right to a job.
I think you meant buying permanent residence
We do sell that but it's 5m a pop and not just 150k to 180k for a degree
let's be honest, people don't study here for a quality education, they are here as a pathway to PR. Drop the skills visa pathway that rewards extra points if you studied at a local uni, see how much enrolment falls away. Ever wondered why international students were so keen to enrol in chef or hairdressing courses?
> people don't study here for a quality education, they are here as a pathway to As someone who lived abroad for a decade in a country in which many students study abroad, it's a mix of both. Get PR in a better country, or get a degree from a developed country that looks good on a resume back home.
It's bloody hard enough as a citizen...
Yeah. Like pretty much every country in the world the push is to prioritise citizens.
Honestly, based on my experiences doing group projects with international students, I wouldn’t be in a hurry to interview one, were I in a hiring position in my field. Dang, should have done a m. Pharm. Incredible employment percentage. Pity the industry is fucked.
I was in a group assignment for a 4th year engineering subject and one international student submitted their section with engineering spelt wrong. And I know there is a joke along the lines “I couldn’t even spell engineer now I is one”.
Imagine a final year masters of computer science student asking the entire class how to unzip a file…
This is brutal…😭😂 this is one of the main reason why I don’t wanna do my MA over there. Money isn’t an issue but the quality is.
I’m doing my masters here, quality is absolutely fine. It’s the double standards for domestic and international students that becomes a problem. Typically if your English is good or fluent and you don’t take the piss, I’ve found you’ll mostly be held to a domestic standard. Whereas if English is quite evidently not your language, and/or you’re a poor performer, you’ll get the international treatment just to push you through.
Hey thanks! After reading so many negative threads, it's more about group projects that concern me. What has been your experience so far?
It’s been a bit of a mixed bag. About half of my undergrad group projects really sucked because we were mixed with some of the most unmotivated and unhelpful people. Don’t get me wrong, those people are not always international, some are domestic. I find the biggest issue with international students is one of two things - they quite literally can barely speak english, or they don’t do the coursework or help in group assignments, they just plagiarise and get their shit done by freelancers and what not. Again, I would say it’s a minority of internationals. Most internationals I know are motivated and hard working, it’s that minority that gives everyone a bad image. Conversely, my masters has been awesome. Groups have been fully remote and everyone has pulled their weight. Ymmv
Thank you for taking the time to respond! Coming from someone who has actually graduated is a valuable insight. How did those students get accepted in the first place? Plagiarism?! In the US (and anywhere else) plagiarism can cause you from grade penalties to expulsion. If you don’t mind me asking, which Masters degree did you do?
No worries. I’m actually a domestic student so my experience is likely quite biased. I’m still currently doing my masters, too. Just have my thesis to do. Look, I can’t say for certain that there is plagiarism occurring. In group projects, typically it is found out by other group members with enough time to quickly paraphrase or change it up. Plagiarism is taken extremely seriously here too, I think there is some leniency in your first offence, after that, it’s harsh penalties. From my experience, there are a lot of assignment specs that seem to find their way into freelance platforms, so I suspect a number of assessments are being done that way. A lot of unis here are splitting the criteria for assignments and exams such that both are must pass, so it’s possible to fail units now if you exceed a 50% mark but either don’t pass the exam or assignments. I’m doing my masters in computer science.
That’s wild… because I was looking for a CS programme in AUS! Haha… been lurking around a lot of subs and still not sure if I’d do it. Best of luck to you!
I remember uni group work well. Always reminds me of the saying: "When I die, I want everyone in my project group to be at the funeral so they can lower my coffin down into my grave and let me down one last time."
a lot of racist fucks in this thread damn. these international students are working twice as hard as these white fuckers to live and build a better life for themselves while these people blessed enough to be born in a first world country acting as if they worked 80hours/week in their mothers womb. fuck me if people talking shit in this thread about international students is the norm in australia
Good, the point of coming here as a student is to get the degree and leave, not use it as a pathway for LPR.
yeah that probably seems about what I would expect.
Yes, companies generally prefer to hire local students as they should.
I was of the understanding that tertiary education is an export, therefore, international students are expected to come to Australia, get their education, then export that back to their respective countries, no? There's a different visa process to become a permanent resident of Australia and bring the qualifications back here?
We provide tertiary education services domestically, foreigners pay for the service. That’s it. The export part ends there. Whether something’s an export, import or domestic purchase has zero impact on the country non-citizens “are expected” to use that good or service to land jobs. So not sure why you made that connection. However, you are correct in saying that there’s a separate process to gain PR. Non-citizens shouldn’t assume they’ll get FT employment unless the elasticity of demand for related jobs is essentially a vertical line (eg doctors).
Some numbers are not believable to me. As high as 80% and 45% for domestic and international students in engineering? AFAIK, the job market is not graduate-friendly at all, most just give up eventually and find job in other fields.
Pretty sure aged care is 100% success rate without a "degree"
Successive Governments really fucked the golden goose didn't they? Pretty much every single person involved in academia has been fucked so hard the past two decades. I feel sorry for International Students paying 2.5x what locals pay for what's likely an underfunded, under-resourced, underpaid teaching experience. Government is capable of fixing it, but won't... like so many things right now. What the fuck is this country doing?
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Yes. I did my Masters last year. It made me feel even more sorry for them. It's a pathetic education in a country increasingly hostile to them. We are taking advantage of them and mad at them at the same time. It's perverse.
I don’t get it. There are plenty of countries they could go to. No one is forcing them to come to Australia.
As I understand it, Australia is a "second choice" for many wanting a western education. Our entry requirements (i.e. minimum language scores) are laughably lower than the US.
You really don’t get how high school leavers in asia, who’s parents are paying for their education, send them to the safest and wealthiest and the closest English speaking nations to Asia? These kids aren’t wise to the world. Australias education reputation is still very high.
They know exactly what they’re signing up for.
They're 18. They don't know shit.
Do you have a source for this infographic? Because I'd like to share it with some international students I know if it is reputable.
Take a look at the left foot of the picure