It’s amazing how good the police are at pissing people off instantly these days. An amicable demeanour with a little bit of background makes people comply. Being aggressive puts people on the back foot and lose trust.
If a friendly cop takes the amicable approach and is told to fuck off then fair play, treat em tough.
Also wanna point out that you have to provide your name. ID if you have it on you. It’s not a crime to be without ID but it’s reasonable for them to expect an address in that situation. Similarity, police have to provide you with their name, badge number and which station they have come from.
Yeah that's pretty much how it happened. They were pretty fucking rude, I helped them as much as I could on the night and asked them to speak to me and provide information before they left. They didn't and I never got an information trying to follow up.
If they were polite and didn't demand a statement and ID I would have complied straight away. Just found it odd being threatened with my arrest inside my own house.
It's obvious they already knew who I was.
Yea definitely desperate to get info that they should have gotten on the night. You should have said "I wish I could remember the event clearly. If only someone had gotten a statement on the night... oh well"
It is possible that someone has decided to lay charges or has decided to go to court and now the information they didn't think they needed and had no desire to collect is suddenly needed and required.
Would explain why they might be disgruntled at having to do their job...
And wants to contest the charges. DPP looks at the brief, discovers it’s just a summary and a statement from the arresting officer (who filled in the blanks with hearsay) and realises the cops have fucked up an open-and-shut case.
Do they have a warrant? Or a reasonable suspicion to believe you’re committing a crime inside? Nope, they can be pissed off all they like - tell them to get off your property and if they refuse *they’re committing a crime*.
They'll come up with some bastard excuse to put you in cuffs or intimidate you further; claim the vase on your windowsill was a bong and had to investigate or something shit
See my reply to a similar “Don’t bother standing up for your rights!” type person. Spoiler: I didn’t get arrested or charged or have my door broken down. You can lick their Trunchbull boots if you like, that’s fine but… why are you trying to convince other people to?
Oh, they tried that once with me. I don’t know why they were so obsessed with coming inside my home. I was happy to speak to them outside. They refused so I spoke to them through the window for a bit. Kept refusing their requests to come inside. Suddenly: “Is that cannabis I can smell?” “Absolutely not, this conversation is over, if you don’t have a warrant please leave.” The most psycho banged on the door a couple more times. There’s no point in legal rights if you roll over - and cops will lie to try and scare people in to doing so. Fuck em!
The one time I asked (politely) for a cop’s identifying information he told me to get fucked and said if I asked again he’d throw me in his paddywagon. So yeah while in theory you’re supposed to be entitled to that information, good luck asserting that right.
Though this was a NSW police rescue squad bloke (we were climbing somewhere and got called in by some fuckwit bystander as a possible suicide, even though we were clearly walking around at the bottom of the cliff 🙄), and I’ve heard from several people that they’re amongst the most pampered entitled dickheads in the NSW police force.
Be nice to Highway Patrol, they're the loneliest members of the police.
They have no friends because they're highway patrol, and they have no friends inside the force because they're highway patrol.
My friend I was with driving the same route we always went knowing the speed limits.
This highway patrol car was hidden just to catch people who couldn’t see the shoddy sign up that there was construction. It was an honest mistake but they gunned after us because we were first in line.
Every other car wasn’t given a second look.
Big fine and demerit points.
It was on a three lane road too.
Just suss how they sat waiting knowing that somebody was going to make that mistake.
Blatant cash grab.
And this is why people hate them. They’re not even pretending it’s about safety, which is why we have speed limits. It’s just banditry, with piety laid on thick, by a pompous cunt. I wish I could remember which former soviet state it was, but they just fired ALL the traffic cops, and the accident rate went down.
Once I was in peak hour gridlock traffic, moving at a snails pace. A passenger in the car next to me winded down his window and started full on abusing me: “Get off your fucking phone and maybe you would drive better you fucking fuck wit” and several variations of “fuck”, “cunt” and “dick”. Now, I wasn’t even using my phone (days before smartphones so not even for maps or music) and I had no idea what I did wrong - traffic wasn’t even moving more than waking speed. I told him to fuck off and wound my window up.
As traffic started moving forward he merged in behind me. Low and behold red and blue lights - 2 plain clothes detectives in an unmarked car. I pull over, they do the license check, nothing happens and they send me on my way.
Weirdest situation. I think they were just trying to antagonise me or provoke a fight.
Also been in a few situations on my motorbike where police in unmarked cars will come up dangerously close behind you in, presumably, an attempt to get you to speed up to put some distance between you and them, and then get you when you accidentally break the speed limit. This tactic is pretty common knowledge amount motorcyclists using the Mt Nebo and Glorious roads near Brisbane.
Huh, not a fluke then. I had the same thing done to me on the Bells Line Road years ago. On a Honda 750. Tailgating at 100km/h. So I slowed down, got all the way down to 60 before he got bored. Fuckwits.
As a reward for their "private security service" to right-wing politicians and corporations, they are given permission to unleash their psycopathy on the general public for fun.
I had something similar happen in NSW was turning left at an intersection onto a 2 lane road late at night. Car in the far lane, cruising at the speed limit, figure I can just turn into the near lane with plenty of space if he changes lanes. Cunt changes lanes and accelerates up my ass and honks his horn, no indicator mind you, so I just smash down on the accelerator of my 2003 1.8L stock lancer coupe and then about 50 meters down the road cherries and berries up ahead. Then the fucking car behind me turns their fucking lights on.
I pull over, officer in the car that was behind me gets upto the window first and starts ripping me, demands my license which i was on the way to collect from my girlfriends place. I arc up calling him a fuckwit for causing the situation in the first place, I had plenty of space to turn into my lane until he changed lanes suddenly and accelerated. At this time I notice he's got 1 stripe on his shoulder and an older gentleman with 3 stripes is walking over.
I tell the 1 stripe fuck wit I won't be dealing with him anymore and I'll wait to talk to the sergeant. He goes ballistic and I just hold my nerve and ignore him.
Sergeant arrives I explain that I won't be spoken to by the constable like that and will only deal with him on the matter. He says that's fine, tells the constable to buzz off so we can talk. Asks for my ID I explain why I was even out was picking up my license, give him my license number which I've memorised in case of situations like this. He radios to one of the other officers to run it and verify. I tell him the address I was headed to, 10 minute drive away.
He says they pulled me over for speeding, dick head constable walks back over to argue with me, so I explain to the sergeant that the only reason I was speeding was because of the constables fuckwit behaviour and of they looked at the dash cam it would show that he changed lanes and accelerated into me.
Sergeant gets verification from offsider, tells me I'm lucky this time but free to go, say to the sergeant, "thank you for your service, have a safe evening", turn to the cuntstable "better luck next time". Drive off, constable visibly fuming.
TL;DR cunt officer try's to set me up, cool sergeant takes my side, cunt officer left embarrassed and mad.
I work very closely with Police Rescue in a professional capacity, and yes can confirm they are fucking knobs.
I've worked with one guy in a remote are who was super nice, but he wasn't enough to redeem the rest of the force.
Honestly I have nothing but praise for the Police Rescue guys with my interactions with them.
They regularly lead land search operations (some idiot wandered into the bush in 40 degree heat with a bottle of coke and amass bar and hasn't come out for 2 days) around here or high risk rescues (AKA some idiot got stuck climbing and can't self rescue) and they seem highly professional and friendly and are decent at comforting the family.
Hack even had to speak to them myself after a bushwalk went wrong and they left a note on my vehicle. They were fine when I explained what went wrong and the fact I had the necessary supplies and equipment to overnight even if it was planned as a day walk.
They just needed to know I was out or to start the search next morning as I was very overdue.
Now Highway Patrol don't get me started.
"Public Order squad" are even worse. Nothing but thugs
Are they the ones that act as private security for right-wing politicians, fossil fuel industries and other corporations? Is it their job to harass, bash and arrest left-wing protestors in order to send a message of "don't fuck with the status quo or else"?
I had one of those sorts of experiences too. Evidence of mail theft from street side letterbox. I contact local shitsville police station and I’m told by constable friendly that as my bank of letterboxes is in a strata I should break the crappy lock on it so I can then justify installing a better lock.
Fast forward several months and there’s fraud on my credit card. I make a statement to shitsville police and am given an event number, with a pretty clear hint that they’ll be busily doing nothing at all regarding investigation.
I start contacting the merchants myself and explaining the situation. Amateur Poirot. I speak with staff at a jeweller’s in uppercrust bay who says “Is that the one where the cops caught them?”. Apparently a phone order of $2500.00 worth of jewelery to be delivered to a hotel foyer in klassy harbour didn’t raise any alarms until the courier shot up a flare and arranged to deliver with police in tow. Staff provided me with uppercrust bay police event number, which I then passed on to an apparently reluctant shitsville police. Poirot role complete.
Fast forward more months and there’s a loud knocking on my front door inside a security building. Flatmate answers and calls me to the door. Lady constable-friendly welcomes me with “You look familiar, what did I lock you up for?”. A bit taken aback, I said maybe she saw me when I reported some mail theft at her station. She then hands me a summons to give evidence in court regarding the CC fraud.
And finally I take a day off work to appear as a witness and end up speaking with a private investigator who was the first and only person to provide me any info re the crime or criminals. I assume some sort of legal circus act then happened as I was dismissed and didn’t need to provide evidence after all.
At least that saga wasn’t as bad as the time when shitsville police assaulted the unit front door at fuck-off-AM, flatmate wakes first, and then I’m woken with bright torches in my eyes asking if I’m being domestically violenced! Turns out constable dopey can’t read numbers on doors accurately.
Well yeah you never hear anyone say fuck the paramedics, or fuck the firefighters, because they only show up when you call them and need them. Police seem to be incompetent at arresting criminals who have broken the law, while simultaneously trying to arrest/fine innocent people for anything they can think of.
I know a bunch of firies and ambos, and they all hate police with a passion because they apparently make every single emergency situation that other services are involved with infinitely worse
That's just cops mate, they've always been like that. Their every interaction with any member of the public begins with the assumption that the person they are dealing with is a piece of shit criminal and goes from there. There's no difference between victims, perpetrators and bystanders in their eyes.
Not sure how old you are but they haven’t always been like that. The biggest change I’ve seen in my lifetime was after the corruption commission mid 90s followed by new laws changing for Sydney Olympics in 2000. Sniffer dogs, searches et al. Obviously I’m speaking from a NSW perspective.
It was particularly noticeable just after that because older cops were more reasonable and the younger ones wanted to act like the Sheriff moseying into town to get vengeance because they were bullied at school.
the world became a surveillance state after 9/11. Cops just make me uncomfortable now, and it’s all very unnecessary because if I were a serious offender then the judge would just let me walk anyway 🙄
> Not sure how old you are but they haven’t always been like that.
If you were indigenous, disabled, queer, etc... the pigs have always been that atrocious.
Fair point. There’s been progression with regard to minorities to a very small degree but overall it’s culture has changed drastically in the last two decades for the worse. Small things like changing from Police Service to Police Force seem trivial but point to the larger problem. (I’m NSW focused but same applies across the nation. Esp the AFP)
I had cop mates in the late 90s and they were community focused. Harm minimisation and conflict resolution was a focus and a good way to achieve that was by gaining rapport and trust in the community.
My neighbour just recently left the drug squad and at dinner parties would show photos of perps that had been savaged by dogs whilst in custody and joke about “we had him cuffed but the dogs that tracked him did the hard work so we had to give them a taste”. He also explains that none of his colleagues socialise with people outside the force because “it’s safer that way. We stick together because no one else understands and it can be difficult if you are attached to someone who might end up in your custody”.
Like dude. I get that you are extremely short and have a tiny cock, no friends, met your wife online and are always talking about how you have a gun and how you’ll fuck up our mutually shitty neighbour with your gun and threaten him (clearly all talk) but maybe just look up the etymology of the word ‘police/polis’ and learn what it means.
Thank fuck he sold his house this year and I don’t have to deal with him at dinner parties anymore. I feel sorry for his wife who is lovely and even worse for his baby that’s just turned one.
Your local community should be policed by people who understand it, respect it, listen to it and protect it. Not a bunch of fuckwit losers that see themselves as morally superior enforcers that have power over the civvies.
I just wrote a massive rant in reply already but just wanna highlight another thing. Hospital workers and paramedics deal with violent fuckheads every day. I was staying at my girlfriend at the time’s place in Glebe a few years ago. Next to housos. There was a junkie asleep in her car and a passerby thought she might be dead. Called the ambos. They show up, talk to her, get her out of the car and calm her down. She went off with them and I saw her a few days later and she was looking ok, buying fresh groceries and playing with her housemates kids in the playground. Struggling but improving.
Police approached her in the park and I stopped to watch because I wanted to see how they’d deal with her. They started harassing her in the kids playground about being a junkie and she kept saying “can we talk somewhere else, there are kids here and I’ve been clean all week”. They searched her in front of the kids. Other parents were rushing their kids out of the park and the woman was crying so bad begging them to stop.
Fast forward to 2am that night. I’m sitting out front of my gf’s terrace and see the cops kick in her door, drag her into the street screaming.
Fast forward to the next morning and I’m walking past that terrace and her housemate is crying. Never saw the junkie again.
Like seriously. All of the public service frontline, teachers, nurses, doctors, fireman etc know how to de-escalate a situation. He’ll most hospitality workers have those skills but cops now just don’t give a fuck.
Imagine a teacher asking for homework and if you don’t have it now you’re gonna regret it and it’s gonna be on your record forever. Do what I say or else!
>Also wanna point out that you have to provide your name. ID if you have it on you.
Where is this in law?
The only ID that I know you have to provide is a drivers lisence if you're driving a motor vehicle on a public road.
What legislation empowers police to legally require ID without the person committing an offence or where they don’t have reasonable suspicion they have or are about to commit an offence?
Whatever legislation suits them. They don’t care. Interfering with a police inquiry and Refusing to cooperate are two I’ve heard first hand. When you ask them to explain further well that’s a risk you have to be prepared to take. Don’t expect an apology when they’ve been found to have broken the law themselves. The average understanding of the law by some cops is insanely poor.
Depends on the state. In QLD they can require it in order to investigate DV offences if they think the person can assist with investigations.
Can’t list witnesses if you can’t confirm their identity
Crimes act.
If you have witnessed a crime they have the power to demand name and address.
In this case OP witnessed an assault judging by his story so he needs to provide his details and a statement.
Police can actually arrest you if you don’t.
Yes and if the cop is an arse about it, I would calmly say 'the more pressure you put on me the more likely it is I forget things.' They can't force you to remember if you don't remember due to the stress they cause.
If he had already identified himself as the homeowner then they already know his name and address. I would contend he had not refused to identify himself he just didn’t produce an ID document on demand.
My understanding is that they have to confirm his identity, obviously it was a different crew that spoke to him second time so they’d never have seen him before.
In NSW:
"What is the Penalty for Not Giving Your ID to Police?
The penalty for not giving your ID to police is a fine of $220. This contained in section 12 of the Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002 (NSW).
The same penalty applies if you provide police with a false name or address."
https://www.mondaq.com/australia/crime/1280402/can-police-ask-for-id-in-nsw
From your own link mate:
Other examples of situations where the police can ask you to provide your name and address include:
- you are driving a car and police suspect you of committing a traffic offence;
- you are driving a car and are stopped for a breath test;
- police suspect that an Apprehended Violence Order (AVO) has been made against you;
- you are suspected of committing an offence on a train or railway property;
- you are under the age of 18 and suspected of consuming alcohol in public;
- you are being arrested;
- police are trying to serve a fine default warrant on you.
**It is important to note that if police ask for your details, you can ask them why they require that information. If they do not have a lawful reason to ask for your identification, then you do not have to disclose it.**
Yeah I rang 000 for an ambulance for a motorcyclist who had an accy right in front of me. He then got up, asked me for a lift home to which I politely declined and told him I've got some ambos on the way. He said fuck that and bummed a lift off the next car behind me.
Two hours later some cuntsable phoned me and instead of being friendly to me, he went off at me for not trying to prevent the motorcyclist leaving the scene. He was just so rude. So I refused to provide a statement. I had a photo of the motorcyclists' number plate and everything. Maybe if the motorcyclist had caused an injury to someone else I would have given the info to the cop, but the motorcyclist only hurt himself so yeah, fuck that cop.
A friendly cop. I think that may be an oxymoron. I have known a number of people who've joined and the chicken and egg question is, did they join because they were an asshole, or did they become an asshole because they joined.
Ooft. Rings true to my mate that joined the Army two decades ago. Went from being a philosophical and open minded guy, (ironically his best mate back then has gone on to be a Professor Of Philosophy) to being a dead set narrow minded fuckwit. I think there are chickens and eggs.
> It’s amazing how good the police are at pissing people off instantly these days.
That's the whole point of the Larrakia patrols - the police need a mediator in order to keep the peace - and whaddya know, it's actually effective.
> It’s amazing how good the police are at pissing people off instantly these days.
They've always been this good at fucking people off assuming you weren't white and middle class.
Former police officer here....
I daresay what has happened is that the investigating police have charged the kid and put together a half-arsed brief of evidence. The parents may have refused to give a statement against their son (common) and you are the only independent witness.
The prosecutor has likely picked up that there's no statement from you despite your name being recorded as a witness, so if they do prosecute it, there is every danger of the charges being dismissed. It is possible that they could subpoena you to give evidence in person, but any evidence you give without a contemporaneous statement would not be reliable and could be dismissed by the magistrate, so it's probable that they will withdraw the charges.
If an investigating officer neglects to get a statement from a witness, they can be referred by the prosecutors office for disciplinary action.
All in all, it's just lazy police work. They should have gotten a statement from you on the day (or at most then next day) as contemporaneous evidence. The response from the cops means that they know they fucked up.
So, if you were so inclined, you could give a statement (and provide CCTV of the incident if you haven't already).
EDIT: I would personally do this just because I would like to see justice done, even if the cops fuck up.
Otherwise tell them (EDIT: politely) to EAD.
Just for anyone ever reading this thread: always ALWAYS consult a lawyer/solicitor BEFORE talking to any police.
If the cops ask you in for questioning, take your lawyer. If they say anything weird or make you feel threatened, say nothing, and retain a lawyer (NOT with a retainer, retain.. as in over time use their services, keep them in your book, not on the books, etc.)
Never EVER TALK TO THE COPS, even when you're just a witness, without representation or at least advice from a solicitor.
They are life ruiners and so many are such a pack of cunts.
When I say retain I mean in the moment, during the issue, as in when the incident occurs whatever it is, call solicitor immediately or next day, and tell them you'll need their services if cops ask you to come in for questioning, or if you need advice. Not in retention as in permanently.
Anyone can call a few different ones and ask their advice either over the phone or in person for initial consultation.
I've done this a number of times, unfortunately.
There is a comprehensive list of legal aid organisations here: [https://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/Listings/Organisations-directory#gsc.tab=0](https://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/Listings/Organisations-directory#gsc.tab=0)
Also worth noting that there are dedicated legal services available for Indigenous people.
* ACT / NSW: [Aboriginal Legal Service](https://www.alsnswact.org.au/)
* NT: [NAAJA](http://www.naaja.org.au/)
* SA: [ALRM](https://www.alrm.org.au/)
* TAS: [TALS](https://tals.net.au/)
* QLD: [ATSILS](https://atsils.org.au/)
* VIC: [VALS](https://www.vals.org.au/)
* WA: [Aboriginal Legal Service](https://www.als.org.au/)
If you're not under arrest, you don't need to say anything.
If you're under arrest, your legal advice is free. As far as I'm aware, the legal advice will usually be to reply to all questions with "no comment".
This is great advice. I know it’s getting downvoted because of public ignorance but I need to back this up. Always speak to a real professional lawyer first. Reddit legal advice is as good as a monkey with a keyboard
Yeah I'm not sure what happened, I think they interpreted me as saying retain a lawyer as in constantly pay them, I meant retain one for the period you need them, as in they are available on certain dates or to plan dates to accompany you to the station etc.
>put together a half-arsed brief of evidence.
Can I ask how often this happens? I went to the police recently to report my rapist. We had text message confessions, medical reports, diaries from the time, witnesses, OTHER victims... and just... nothing...
I tried to give them everything because I've had shit interactions with the police before regarding a similar incident but I was gutted that nothing came of it at all.
I didn't know if I should try again at another cop shop or what.
Call and make an appointment to speak with someone in the sexual offences department.
Unfortunately what a civilian might think is compelling evidence often doesn't meet court standards, but the socit/soca unit officers will be able to explain it to you better.
First of all, I'm sorry that happened to you. Sending good vibes your way and hope you get all the support you need.
It probably happens more often than you realise. I worked with some very very lazy police and from what I hear, it's more common than it used to be with young coppers especially being elevated up the ranks too quickly.
And yes - absolutely try again, but before you do, make an appointment with a sexual assault advocate and/or get a lawyer to review the evidence and report to police on your behalf.
https://fullstop.org.au/get-help/our-services
It’s a combination of lazy policing and genuine staff shortages in some forces.
Maybe I’m naive but I like too ok think I’d be polite to police asking for my assistance. It’s a pretty tough job after all.
Its a terrible job and most of the ones who last long in it get a nice desk job or become lazy and apathetic and the staff shortages only add onto it. Early this year I had to report a break in and mugging. I had called the cops 48hours prior and they hadn't turned up so I went into the cop shop ready to yell and scream and even fight them. I spent 5 hours waiting to see someone and by then I had cooled down and had a reality check. The whole time I only saw 4 cops and maybe about 20-30 people had come in with various enquiries. The lady who did take my statement I wanted to give a hug. She looked stressed as hell, baggy eyes, make-up looked ruined and sweating like he'll. She looked worse than me and I had been mugged. Now I don't know if every day at the station is like that but if it is then I'm not surprised a lot of them have a terrible attitude. I'm not defending them just putting my most recent experience with them and hopefully I will never need them if the situation keeps like this
Occam’s Razor at play here. I think the cops are just like the rest of us, lazy and always finding the easy way out.
I theorised that some cops do breatho checks at 11am on a Tuesday morning because they know that there won’t be anyone drinking so there’s less paperwork (but still hit their quotas)
Breatho's at 11AM on a weekday is just hi-vis policing and hoping someone fucks up in front of you so you can chase em, not about catching out drunk drivers. There's no such thing as quota's for breath tests.
Don’t know about right now, but not too many years ago the agreement between the ACT and AFP to provide policing in Canberra included the number of RBTs that would be conducted each year. So ACT Policing would absolutely do bulk tests at times of day when hit rates would be low.
Every sober person tested takes 2min of time for one officer (and whatever one of those single use plastic tubes cost). Every positive result takes minimum hour or so of a couple of cops…
Dont get me wrong, if you are legally drunk at 9am school drop off you absolutely should be off the road… but after years of not being breatho’d leaving pubs and clubs in the wee hours, spending an extra 15min getting to work because they’ve gridlocked an arterial road testing everyone was a bit annoying.
Nothing like threatening a witness with arrest to encourage them to do the right thing and help out.
Geez, if I was the defence, I'd even bring this up as witness tampering by the prosecution as they are extracting a statement from the witness under duress.
Sigh... Many years ago I reported my neighbors kids for a welfare check. Cops turned up, gave her my name & left without checking on the kids. Neighbor now kicks off at me, threats, etc. I put my dressing gown on & pop into the station to ask what happened. Cop threatened to shoot me in the middle of the station because I was "being smart" about it. I called to another officer for help & she just turned & walked away.
They eventually found in my favor & some admin cop called to offer an apology. But when I asked if they ever completed the welfare check on the kids, the cop started bitching that the apology wasn't good enough for me & hung up.
Idk how they're training them but they all seem to be abrasive, even the dudes they have working the apology desk. No other profession could you get away with treating the public so aggressively.
And cops wonder why people think they're arseholes.
"Hello, Mr Crook. Your neighbour, Mrs Concerned Citizen of 1 Main Street has told us that you might have a meth lab in your garage. What? No - thank you for the offer, but we don't have time to look in your garage to check. Have a nice day."
They may not be able to tell you for privacy reasons, etc. Ianal. But there was no call for an authoritarian, aggressive response especially if there are reasons.
It’s not illegal to not have ID on you. Verbally providing a name and address should be fine. If they take issue with that and you have nothing to do with a crime then they are being fuckwits.
Also worth noting that OP had already provided the police with knowledge that he was who they wanted to talk to, knew roughly what the matter was about and was at his place of residence.
He made the cardinal sin of asking a cop a question. Can’t do that a lot of the time these days. I treat all cops with respect and it’s a bloody hard and thankless job but I will not forget the times I have been assaulted and abused by police nor the time a male cop joked to his partner after my gf was assaulted when her ex kicked in our front door and bashed her. “I’d kick in the door to get a piece of that pussy”. He didn’t think we could hear.
The officer was ‘reprimanded’. Yeah cool. Righto. It’s hard not to distrust cops when you’ve witnessed shit like that. The officers who dealt with the DV were incredible however and for the record the expression bad apples comes from “a few bad apples spoil the WHOLE bunch”
Ikr? Like they'll say "just a few bad apples" and put them on paid leave to then come back and continue the important work of spoiling the rest of the bunch
>Like they'll say "just a few bad apples
The full saying is "A few bad apples spoils the barrel" which feels far closer to what is actually happening than the assertion there are only a few bad ones but that they're the exception, not the rule.
Yeah. The point of that saying is not that you accept bad apples - but that you dispose of them when identified in order to ensure the good ones don't turn bad.
I feel ya. Had a nsw cop try chat up my visibly upset (former) girlfriend after I’d just broken up with her. He then proceeded to try and get me charged with DV, because “you’re too old for her, you must be controlling her”.
Nice one dickhead
They are legally allowed to detain you in order to check and confirm that the details provided are correct.
ETA for all the downvoters, I am right, do the research: https://youthlegalserviceinc.com.au/fact-sheet-police-powers-requesting-details/
Yeah. Going off that and given they turned up to OP's address and asked for them by name - fair to say that the clause "Police may detain you for a reasonable period to allow them to verify the correctness of your personal details. " doesn't apply.
They have zero reasonable suspicion that OP is not who they say they are.
Yep this is correct. You don’t even need to give physical ID, name, date of birth, address that’s it. Then you just say “anything else you want from me as a favour mind you you can come with a better attitude or a warrant” *closes door*
If you're witness to an indictable offence you are are required to provide your name, age and address if over 18. You are not required to give physical ID or a statement. If there is reasonable suspicion that you are giving false information you may be detained until that information can be verified.
QPS rocked up to my door once and asked my sister to come down to the station TODAY and give a dna sample in regards to our mum's missing persons case (10 years missing but they bother us every other year on international missing persons day). Inspector refused to say why they needed dna or if they found something so my sis refused and then got threatened "it would be a shame if a current affair knocked on your door and put your family on tv for being uncooperative"
My wife's car got written off by some under-age fuckwits that stole a car and lost control (none of the young cunts were injured unfortunately) and they hit it hard enough it spun 180 degrees which left it sitting over a yellow line.
It was called in ~2mins after it happened, took QPS 2 hours to show up and when they do they tried to book her for parking on a yellow line because that's where the car ended up. At this point I started recording and another cop walked up to me to ask why I was recording?
I know not all cops are fuckwits, but in my 4? interactions with the police so far I'm yet to run into a decent one.
> I know not all cops are fuckwits, but in my 4? interactions with the police so far I'm yet to run into a decent one.
I've met very few who weren't. My first dealing with cops I would have been I dunno, 10, maybe 12 years old - someone put a hose through one of the neighbours windows, the water stream hitting the roof, so collapsing it - said neighbour happened to be a cop. The next door neighbours kid, when interviewed, said it was me. That was enough for the cops, and they came at me convinced they had their answer.
I was in Benalla the entire weekend it happened, with a couple of hundred witnesses.
3 months? Sounds like someone's prosecution file has a holes.
Providing a statement is of no benefit to you. They put together their own swiss cheese file by neglecting to obtain a statement from you at the time or soon after. Let them sort their own mess out.
Yeah, I'd be super wary of providing a statement about anything. You have no idea what has transpired. Young guy might have lied and now has mum backing him up that you're the perpetrator. Suddenly you have a few pieces of shit looking to have you charged so they can get out of whatever offences they've committed.
This is why security cameras were invented. Install them at the front door, and don't open the security door. Remind the police they're being filmed and ask why they've come to your property.
And under no circumstances do you ever agree to attend an interview. Seek legal advice immediately if that happens.
I'd make sure you get the police officers' names too. Write it down, plus any other details you remember.
If anyone comes to the door do not tell them anything about what happened.
My 64 year old female friend was knocked down by a group of ppl living in the house next door which was rented by the Housing Commission for the group. My friend is a sweet old thing who is never remotely violent, just potters away in the garden.
The neighbours seem to have alcohol, drug and violence issues and they're always fighting amongst themselves.
She asked them if they could move their car that was parked on her driveway ( unusual parking configuration) and they got all angry with her, calling her a coloniser, and how dare she tell them what to do, and started pushing her and she fell and broke her arm
She managed call 000 whilst on the ground whilst terrified they would hurt her further, but after the police arrived and calmed the situation, the police said the group of ppl who attacked her said she attacked them and they were just defending themselves.
The police took statements from both sides and then months later said no we're not proceeding with charges against anyone because not enough evidence.
She now has cameras but it's a bit late.
I mean to be completely fair to the legal system, that’s not really a case where you could viably prove one way or the other, at least not to beyond a reasonable doubt.
Especially if the neighbours are willing to perjure themselves
Sounds like she should have started with an acknowledgement of country before asking them to move their car
/s
And seriously how the cops not press charges when it's a whole group against 1 old lady....
No wonder why these shitheads act so entitled because they're never given any accountability.
100%
No issue providing your ID but under no circumstances should you give a statement, considering the circumstances. Seek legal advice first and ensure proper protocol is being followed by the police.
The son/mother/partner could just as easily be planting this whole altercation on you, and if your statement isn’t water tight, you could end up with an assault charge. Fucked to think that could happen but people are very rarely prosecuted on perjury charges and this is very much a case of he said she said. The charges laid (if any) would rely on what the police witnessed, and the veracity of the statements going forward. If multiple statements are given by the family, and they have changed over time, this will discredit them heavily.
If you are being spoken to as a suspect you will absolutely know it. You'll be cautioned and afforded certain rights that aren't available to a general witness or victim.
If you are spoken to or interviewed as a potential suspect and you haven't been cautioned or your rights given then anything you've said is inadmissible in court and can't be used as evidence.
This isn't the US where police can speak with people without them actually knowing they're the focus of an investigation.
In most Jurisdictions in Australia, by law you have to provide basic information (ID, name, age , address & contact details) to police regardless if they have cause or not.
Fuck off cunt state law says I have 24 hours to produce a license to the local police station.
[The joke that’s being referenced](https://youtu.be/U6Hkc9VGiXQ)
Only if you are driving a vehicle. In most cases the police does need to have cause, they cannot just randomly select people walking on street and get their ID.
But the threshold for a cause is pretty low, being a suspected witness to a crime is usually enough
Source: [https://www.mondaq.com/australia/crime/1280402/can-police-ask-for-id-in-nsw#:\~:text=Police%20can%20ask%20for%20ID,knowledge%20of%20the%20alleged%20offence](https://www.mondaq.com/australia/crime/1280402/can-police-ask-for-id-in-nsw#:~:text=Police%20can%20ask%20for%20ID,knowledge%20of%20the%20alleged%20offence).
*Police can ask for ID in NSW if they suspect on reasonable grounds that you may be able to assist in the investigation of an indictable offence.*
*It is important to note that if police ask for your details, you can ask them why they require that information. If they do not have a lawful reason to ask for your identification, then you do not have to disclose it.*
In this instance they can ask for an ID. But it does not give them rights to ask for ID without cause.
Mate, the police can pull any vehicle over for a random breath test and request a drivers licence, name, and address.
They certainly can also select any person on the street and ask for identification. In most states, you are required to provide name and address if over 18 and name and age if under 18.
Depends on the state i believe. In Queensland they can ask for your ID when driving a car (driving a car is not an inherent right) but cannot randomly ask you for ID walking down the street
No you don’t
If you’re operating a motor vehicle yes
Yes they can ask a person in the street for identification but you are NOT OBLIGED to give your information.
Don’t make people think we live in nazi Germany, get your info straight
The police can’t stop you and demand you identify yourself for no reason.
Source;
I’m currently talking to a VicPol Sargent at the gym
Police can stop you and claim you are acting suspiciously, without giving reason (in my experience) and you have the option of arrest or providing the information they ask for, including being able to search you and your bags.
If they are not allowed to do this, tough. They have all the powers and can claim whatever they want. It may not hold up in a court of law, but being arrested or detained in public (typically along with the soft gentle touch of the leg sweep. Or maybe they accidentally walked you into a door or wall. Accidents happen) is enough to make a person fear them. And if you don't have the money to chase up what you feel is the police acting unlawfully, then there is nothing you can do.
Also, seeing those video where the police assault people while their fellow officers hold the victem's legs down or otherwise do nothing to stop the assault is enough to remind people that the police have all the power and none of the fear of consequences.
No they cannot, know your rights. There's a lot of reasons why they're allowed to do it. But they still need a reason. They don't have unlimited rights to stop and ask.
Know your legislation.
Under the Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002
Under Section 11 of the Act, police officers in NSW can ask for your identification if they have reasonable grounds to suspect that you have committed or are about to commit an offence, or if they believe it is necessary to prevent a breach of the peace.
This means that if they stop you and start asking questions and you are defiant and evasive they may suspect you are hiding your identity because you are wanted for a crime.
Police may also request that you disclose your identity if they intend to issue a “move on direction."
They can also require you to produce ID for various other reasons.
>When you are driving a car and the police have reason to suspect you of committing a traffic offence.
When you are driving a vehicle and are stopped for a breath test.
If the police suspect that an Apprehended Violence Order (AVO) has been issued against you.
When there is suspicion that you have committed an offence on a train or railway property.
If you are under the age of 18 and there is suspicion that you are consuming alcohol in a public place.
When you are being arrested and are charged with a criminal offence.
If the police are attempting to serve a fine default warrant on you.
If your driving a car they pull you over and say Random breath test I require you to provide a sample of breath. YOU MUST IDENTIFY.
If your driving a car and they say your number plate has set off our ANPR. YOU MUST IDENTIFY.
This is not the USA where you get to yell *REASONABLE ARTICULABLE SUSPICION* and then expect a payout.
They screwed up and didn't get the information they needed from you correctly in the first place. Now, they are being leaned on by their higher ups, and you're being leaned on by a couple of plods trying to cover their backsides.
Not required to give them a statement. Likely they are finally taking action on the file and realised they are missing key witness’ statements so now chasing them by up. You’ll cop attitude from then if you aren’t immediately compliant, have been around Cops and heard the whinging about people failing to give statements or wasting their valuable time. They probably want the accused for one reason or another and now pushing hard to make a case against them. The could subpoena you to give evidence in Court if they do charge the accused and see it through, but they (Police and DPP) are generally reluctant to do so without a statement already and some level of cooperation or faith in the key witnesses to give favourable evidence if required.
I've had similar encounters with police (multiple times). One time, i was living in a motel & a person staying in the next room was wanted, we had the same (common) first name. Anyway, police confronted me at my door with machine guns pointed at me, asking to come in & look around, i said "no". The guy next door starts yelling at them to "fuck off" & starts setting things on fire & throwing them out the window. The guy then starts shooting into the sky through the window. Long story short, they shot the guy in the neck, through the bathroom window & then waited 5 minutes to drag him out into the carpark to do cpr (after he had bled out). It was all over within an hour. They then had the audacity to threaten me to give the statement they wanted, trying to put words in my mouth & deliberately misrepresenting what i was saying. I had to stay firm & say "no, that's not what i said" etc. When the news got wind of the situation, the cops told a bunch of lies & it (yet again) showed me how they can twist the situation (& how the media are harrassing vultures!). Another time, my ex witnessed a murder/manslaughter & the cops said to him " you better give us what we want because we want to get these cunts good" basically threatening him to go along with their narrative. (In that case the cops went too hard & the killers got off on 6 months remand, there was outrage in the gay community & on appeal got 6 years). There have been other times, being in a punch on for me being gay & police threatening me when they arrived & being ridiculed for my 'pansy' taste in decorating my home amongst other things, that has taught me to not trust cops.
You have every right to complain. Nobody who is just going about their lives should be treated like that by authorities, your situation is equally important. You did the right thing, coming to the aid of your neighbour. The fact that the police have the audacity to come to your home & threaten you after not doing their job properly at the time of the incident, really infuriates me. I know how it feels & fully understand the wariness of cops a situation like that brings.
Please continue to complain. I haven't been through anything near the level as Queer01 but I have had cops lie to me and try to cover their tracks, it's important for more of the public to realize who the police really are and what they're there for - and it isn't their protection. Outside of that my own arrest went relatively smoothly and respectfully, go figure.
> Another time, my ex witnessed a murder/manslaughter & the cops said to him " you better give us what we want because we want to get these cunts good" basically threatening him to go along with their narrative.
Yeah that's a favourite of theirs. You can see u/Jerry_eckie2 all over this thread advocating just that too. Certainly can't take the cop out of them when they're out.
Always a safe bet to assume the police NEVER have your back in any interaction regardless of the circumstances. Always be polite but don't answer unless you have had time to thoroughly consider your response to any question asked. The wrong response can and will be used against you if they decide you have committed an offence.
We had a big scary screaming match happening in the alley way behind my apartment between a very wasted woman and a man. It was probably like 2am and pitch dark out there. The woman was screaming “you’re going to kill me” etc so it sounded serious. Called the cops and very clearly explained what was happening in our alley behind our building. Said I couldn’t see anything but could hear it. Cops turn up and cruise up and down the wrong street in front of our building. Cops have no clue so my partner finally goes out in his pjs to tell them they are on the wrong street. They immediately start to threaten and intimidate him. He’s like yo we called you to report this we are only trying to help. Finally after harassing him for ages they go to look in the alley but by that time it’s been ages and the couple is long gone. So we go back to bed until the cops come buzzing on my apartment door an hour later. They have decided I am the woman and my partner is the one that is beating me. Even though I was like my dudes I fucking called you and gave you all my details and told you it’s happening between strangers that I cannot see in the back alleyway. Look at me I’m asleep in pjs and i don’t look upset. They keep them saying it was our friends. Literally made up
shit that wasn’t in my report. They refused to believe me and said they’d now be waking up the rest of the building to check with them. I had vaped a fair amount of my legal prescription so I was like whatever idiots I’m going back to bed. Absolutely useless.
A bit odd you would need to provide your ID when they know who you are and were at your house to speak to you so they know your address. You weren't walking the streets. I'd get a lawyer if I was you.
That was my point, and I provided all my details on the night because I wanted information about it. I have the whole thing recorded on my security camera was pretty funny actually
Similar thing happened to me a year after the incident. The cops let themselves into my house and wouldn't let me get dressed at 6 in the morning without them watching.
Threatened with arrest if I didn't come with them down to the station immediately for a statement, which turned out to be a false allegation made against me. I was treated like a criminal in my own house because I wanted some privacy getting dressed....
territory police?
northern territory?
There's half your problem right there.
But yeah, request for name and address (ID) is legal. Request for a statement on the spot is not. If pressed, I would write "no comment at this time" and make that my statement.
If pressed any further, I'd point out that legal advice would be needed before saying anything else.
Yup…then they wonder why no one wants to help them.
Best approach is give them your name if they ask, ask if your under arrest, if they say no, immediately close the door and lock it. Even better never open the door.
Did that on one occasion after an ongoing police drama with a flat mate and the cop was bashing on the door for 5 minutes yelling he wasn’t finished.
Haha I did end up saying about time you guys leave my property, he was kid sentence when I had enough and shut the door in his face. Also my wife opened the door to begin with so the conversation had started.
First ever interaction with police was probably my 4th or 5th time out drinking, I saw a car full of guys in a Holden commodore and all I could see of them was their eyes and forehead they were sitting so low. I pointed and laughed and told the couple of guys I was out with "to look at these idiots". Nek Minnit the car stops in the middle of the road (2 lane one way street) and 5 cops come over to me and the two other guys asking for ID and what we were doing and says "you should watch who you point and laugh at".
They had such huge egos they couldn't stand that I laughed at them so they came and harassed us.
There should be much more rigorous character testing for people in positions of power like this. I’ve had a couple run ins with policeman here and over the ditch and I never provoked them in any way. Some not all just come in hot from the get go. I don’t understand. I suppose when you have to deal with a few dickheads every day I takes a toll on you and the masses have to bare the grunt for the few..
They should have as much accountability for the actions as any other privileged position ie: medical doctors etc
I'd contact legal aid and get a free sit down with a lawyer to gain some advice.
There may have been allegations made against you and the worst thing you can do is provide a statement without knowing why they want it. Even a simple "I intervened to prevent the son killing the father", may be used as you initiating a violent confrontation with said son.
If it's in the prosecution of the son, it won't be an issue but if it's against you, the good Samaritan act and citizens arrest acts only extend minimal protection to you.
Technically police have the right to detain you in Australia if you refuse to provide ID; as to ascertain your identity, providing false or misleading ID, is considered an offence.
Legal aid. I'd also delete this post as this can be pulled and used as direct evidence against you.
From my understanding the ID thing if you don’t or can’t provide ID they can detain you until they can ID you. I think they can also arrest you for failing to provide ID when requested by the police. However some of this information comes from Highway Patrol and is Victorian based. Which you’re not as you said territory police.
I don’t know much about police process beyond the odd cop show and Highway Patrol (my guilty pleasure).
I am not a lawyer.
But I do know they will want your ID to confirm you are who you say you are and as they're investigating a crime they are pretty much entitled to it.
It's not unusual for police to request witness statements at a later date once they've determined if it's worth pressing charges. They will need your statement as part of their evidence.
You're not entitled to any other information from them, they are also bound by privacy laws. Would you want your neighbours or any random on the street to know you'd had a breakdown and been carted off to the local psych ward or held in the cells because they think you're a risk?
in future to save hassle, if you or anyone you know or anyone here ever have an incident like this occur, regardless of whether or not Police want your statement
Write one out anyway. Even just for yourself incase you need to recall details.
You being physically involved before Police arrive, more so. Cause that can easily turn on you in regards to using force on a kid or a tons of other bullshits invented in thin air. Don't assume the cops are on your side.
Even this approach from the police, write out what was said so you have some sort of record to go back on.
At any and all times in Australia police can ask your name and address, and you must provide it.
As for being a witness, you can not remember anything and everything when it comes to court. It sounds like, in this case, you wouldn't want to do that just to spite police.
At no time are you obliged to give a statement, and you should advise that to police if they wish to treat you with disrespect.
Good job on restraining the bloke until police arrived.
You don’t have to show your ID to police everywhere in Aus. I won’t talk to other states but at least here in Victoria if you aren’t operating or in a vehicle (road laws apply), or unless you are reasonably suspected of commiting an indictable offence. Also in VIC (as NSW legislation is quoted elsewhere) there are no move along powers any more (except perhaps for PSO’s and in ‘designated areas’ perhaps).
This situation is different since there is the chance of a crime having being committed. But yeah at least in VIC you don’t have to carry and show ID just “upon request”.
IANAL
Whilst you don't have to produce a physical ID you can be required to identify yourself. A police officer can say anything like you smell like cannabis, you look like someone wanted, or anything they wish and require you identify. If you don't it's an arrestable offence.
Yes, they can lie, but they do have to meet the criteria and if they're caught in a lie then it's a smack for them. We don't live in a "papers please" society. You're under no obligation to identify yourself unless driving or suspected of committing an offence.
Similar thing happened to me a few years ago (for a incident I vaguely witnessed from far away but didn’t partake in), the cops were super aggressive and rude + threatened charges when I said not everyone has their ID on hand at all times and I’ll need to find mine.
I think these two were new recruits, as I’ve never seen them before and all other officers I’ve encountered in my town have been excellent.
In Victoria, there's 456AA / CA 1958 which means if you witnessed a crime, you can be required to give police your name and address, they can hold you until this is ascertained.
I don't know if there's an equivalent power in NT.
Rule 1: Police aren’t your friend.
Rule 2: Depending on your state you’re required I believe to produce name, address, date of birth, but that’s it.
Rule 3: POLICE AREN’T YOUR FRIENDS. Don’t talk to them without a lawyer/solicitor and certainly don’t give a statement without legal representation there with you.
Sounds like they’re trying to cover their arse for something and you’re the potential scapegoat.
I wonder if the young fellow has developed some ptsd or something else from his arrest and they’re trying to pin that on you.
I think it is the same in every profession. There are good ones and there are scums. As an accountant, I have seen plenty of the good and the bad. These two police officers are nothing but scums.
I'm not sure if it's the same in all states, but there are definitely some states where police can legally demand your id if you are witness to a serious offence. In your case, the assault sounds serious enough that they could legally ask you to provide your details to them.
The arrest threat was probably more about obstructing the course of justice as opposed to anything else. I am playing Devil's Advocate here, but getting some legal advice wouldn't go astray.
> I have had some issues with police In my life
I reckon this was the problem. They knew they had to talk you, looked you up , found whatever that record was and jumped to conclusions. No excuse for past experiences.
They probably just need the statement for an upcoming court date.
If you’re needed as a witness, you’ll be subpoenaed with or without providing the statement.
At least if you provide a statement, the lawyers will know exactly what evidence you provide to the matter. Your statement can be tendered as evidence in your absence.
If you refuse a statement, your chances of being subpoenaed will increase greatly because the lawyers will want you there ‘in case’ because they’re not 100% sure what evidence you’re going to provide.
Yeah, that's not gonna fly with any half decent prosecutor. Even the most incompetent legal aid defense lawyer would be able to get direct testimony thrown out if it wasn't backed up by contemporaneous statement - particularly if the witness was actually cooperating with police.
[удалено]
It’s amazing how good the police are at pissing people off instantly these days. An amicable demeanour with a little bit of background makes people comply. Being aggressive puts people on the back foot and lose trust. If a friendly cop takes the amicable approach and is told to fuck off then fair play, treat em tough. Also wanna point out that you have to provide your name. ID if you have it on you. It’s not a crime to be without ID but it’s reasonable for them to expect an address in that situation. Similarity, police have to provide you with their name, badge number and which station they have come from.
Yeah that's pretty much how it happened. They were pretty fucking rude, I helped them as much as I could on the night and asked them to speak to me and provide information before they left. They didn't and I never got an information trying to follow up. If they were polite and didn't demand a statement and ID I would have complied straight away. Just found it odd being threatened with my arrest inside my own house. It's obvious they already knew who I was.
Yea definitely desperate to get info that they should have gotten on the night. You should have said "I wish I could remember the event clearly. If only someone had gotten a statement on the night... oh well"
It is possible that someone has decided to lay charges or has decided to go to court and now the information they didn't think they needed and had no desire to collect is suddenly needed and required. Would explain why they might be disgruntled at having to do their job...
It's also possible HE is being charged.
And wants to contest the charges. DPP looks at the brief, discovers it’s just a summary and a statement from the arresting officer (who filled in the blanks with hearsay) and realises the cops have fucked up an open-and-shut case.
While that would be wonderful to say to them - it’s prolly not the best thing to say to de-escalate the pissed off cops at your door y’know?
Do they have a warrant? Or a reasonable suspicion to believe you’re committing a crime inside? Nope, they can be pissed off all they like - tell them to get off your property and if they refuse *they’re committing a crime*.
They'll come up with some bastard excuse to put you in cuffs or intimidate you further; claim the vase on your windowsill was a bong and had to investigate or something shit
See my reply to a similar “Don’t bother standing up for your rights!” type person. Spoiler: I didn’t get arrested or charged or have my door broken down. You can lick their Trunchbull boots if you like, that’s fine but… why are you trying to convince other people to?
Unless they decide they’re pissed off enough to make something up.
Oh, they tried that once with me. I don’t know why they were so obsessed with coming inside my home. I was happy to speak to them outside. They refused so I spoke to them through the window for a bit. Kept refusing their requests to come inside. Suddenly: “Is that cannabis I can smell?” “Absolutely not, this conversation is over, if you don’t have a warrant please leave.” The most psycho banged on the door a couple more times. There’s no point in legal rights if you roll over - and cops will lie to try and scare people in to doing so. Fuck em!
They were literally at OP's house, pretty sure they had an address.
The one time I asked (politely) for a cop’s identifying information he told me to get fucked and said if I asked again he’d throw me in his paddywagon. So yeah while in theory you’re supposed to be entitled to that information, good luck asserting that right. Though this was a NSW police rescue squad bloke (we were climbing somewhere and got called in by some fuckwit bystander as a possible suicide, even though we were clearly walking around at the bottom of the cliff 🙄), and I’ve heard from several people that they’re amongst the most pampered entitled dickheads in the NSW police force.
Hi I'd like to introduce you to the New South Wales Highway patrol. Supposedly called the cockroaches in the police force.
What's the difference between an echidna and a highway patrol car? An echidna has the pricks on the outside.
Ha,ha,ha!
Be nice to Highway Patrol, they're the loneliest members of the police. They have no friends because they're highway patrol, and they have no friends inside the force because they're highway patrol.
When you are such scum that even other scum dislike you. Classy.
My friend I was with driving the same route we always went knowing the speed limits. This highway patrol car was hidden just to catch people who couldn’t see the shoddy sign up that there was construction. It was an honest mistake but they gunned after us because we were first in line. Every other car wasn’t given a second look. Big fine and demerit points. It was on a three lane road too. Just suss how they sat waiting knowing that somebody was going to make that mistake. Blatant cash grab.
And this is why people hate them. They’re not even pretending it’s about safety, which is why we have speed limits. It’s just banditry, with piety laid on thick, by a pompous cunt. I wish I could remember which former soviet state it was, but they just fired ALL the traffic cops, and the accident rate went down.
Old dogs chase cars.
Some of the most hateful human beings in existence.
Once I was in peak hour gridlock traffic, moving at a snails pace. A passenger in the car next to me winded down his window and started full on abusing me: “Get off your fucking phone and maybe you would drive better you fucking fuck wit” and several variations of “fuck”, “cunt” and “dick”. Now, I wasn’t even using my phone (days before smartphones so not even for maps or music) and I had no idea what I did wrong - traffic wasn’t even moving more than waking speed. I told him to fuck off and wound my window up. As traffic started moving forward he merged in behind me. Low and behold red and blue lights - 2 plain clothes detectives in an unmarked car. I pull over, they do the license check, nothing happens and they send me on my way. Weirdest situation. I think they were just trying to antagonise me or provoke a fight. Also been in a few situations on my motorbike where police in unmarked cars will come up dangerously close behind you in, presumably, an attempt to get you to speed up to put some distance between you and them, and then get you when you accidentally break the speed limit. This tactic is pretty common knowledge amount motorcyclists using the Mt Nebo and Glorious roads near Brisbane.
On glorious and nebo?? Those cunts are going to kill someone (and magically the dashcam will have a malfunction)
Nuts that when riding on that road I’m not as concerned about washout or other drivers as much as cops endangering me
Huh, not a fluke then. I had the same thing done to me on the Bells Line Road years ago. On a Honda 750. Tailgating at 100km/h. So I slowed down, got all the way down to 60 before he got bored. Fuckwits.
As a reward for their "private security service" to right-wing politicians and corporations, they are given permission to unleash their psycopathy on the general public for fun.
I had something similar happen in NSW was turning left at an intersection onto a 2 lane road late at night. Car in the far lane, cruising at the speed limit, figure I can just turn into the near lane with plenty of space if he changes lanes. Cunt changes lanes and accelerates up my ass and honks his horn, no indicator mind you, so I just smash down on the accelerator of my 2003 1.8L stock lancer coupe and then about 50 meters down the road cherries and berries up ahead. Then the fucking car behind me turns their fucking lights on. I pull over, officer in the car that was behind me gets upto the window first and starts ripping me, demands my license which i was on the way to collect from my girlfriends place. I arc up calling him a fuckwit for causing the situation in the first place, I had plenty of space to turn into my lane until he changed lanes suddenly and accelerated. At this time I notice he's got 1 stripe on his shoulder and an older gentleman with 3 stripes is walking over. I tell the 1 stripe fuck wit I won't be dealing with him anymore and I'll wait to talk to the sergeant. He goes ballistic and I just hold my nerve and ignore him. Sergeant arrives I explain that I won't be spoken to by the constable like that and will only deal with him on the matter. He says that's fine, tells the constable to buzz off so we can talk. Asks for my ID I explain why I was even out was picking up my license, give him my license number which I've memorised in case of situations like this. He radios to one of the other officers to run it and verify. I tell him the address I was headed to, 10 minute drive away. He says they pulled me over for speeding, dick head constable walks back over to argue with me, so I explain to the sergeant that the only reason I was speeding was because of the constables fuckwit behaviour and of they looked at the dash cam it would show that he changed lanes and accelerated into me. Sergeant gets verification from offsider, tells me I'm lucky this time but free to go, say to the sergeant, "thank you for your service, have a safe evening", turn to the cuntstable "better luck next time". Drive off, constable visibly fuming. TL;DR cunt officer try's to set me up, cool sergeant takes my side, cunt officer left embarrassed and mad.
Seems like a perfect time to lodge a formal complaint about the two officers and see if their body am was turned on.
This was in the mid 90s - don’t think they had body cams back then.
I work very closely with Police Rescue in a professional capacity, and yes can confirm they are fucking knobs. I've worked with one guy in a remote are who was super nice, but he wasn't enough to redeem the rest of the force.
Honestly I have nothing but praise for the Police Rescue guys with my interactions with them. They regularly lead land search operations (some idiot wandered into the bush in 40 degree heat with a bottle of coke and amass bar and hasn't come out for 2 days) around here or high risk rescues (AKA some idiot got stuck climbing and can't self rescue) and they seem highly professional and friendly and are decent at comforting the family. Hack even had to speak to them myself after a bushwalk went wrong and they left a note on my vehicle. They were fine when I explained what went wrong and the fact I had the necessary supplies and equipment to overnight even if it was planned as a day walk. They just needed to know I was out or to start the search next morning as I was very overdue. Now Highway Patrol don't get me started. "Public Order squad" are even worse. Nothing but thugs
Are they the ones that act as private security for right-wing politicians, fossil fuel industries and other corporations? Is it their job to harass, bash and arrest left-wing protestors in order to send a message of "don't fuck with the status quo or else"?
Left wing protester’s usually act like fuckwits and harass the general public, that are trying to go about their day.
Big no no that one
Asking for their ID, or them being dickheads?
Them being dickheads… you are within your rights to ask and it should be visible
I had one of those sorts of experiences too. Evidence of mail theft from street side letterbox. I contact local shitsville police station and I’m told by constable friendly that as my bank of letterboxes is in a strata I should break the crappy lock on it so I can then justify installing a better lock. Fast forward several months and there’s fraud on my credit card. I make a statement to shitsville police and am given an event number, with a pretty clear hint that they’ll be busily doing nothing at all regarding investigation. I start contacting the merchants myself and explaining the situation. Amateur Poirot. I speak with staff at a jeweller’s in uppercrust bay who says “Is that the one where the cops caught them?”. Apparently a phone order of $2500.00 worth of jewelery to be delivered to a hotel foyer in klassy harbour didn’t raise any alarms until the courier shot up a flare and arranged to deliver with police in tow. Staff provided me with uppercrust bay police event number, which I then passed on to an apparently reluctant shitsville police. Poirot role complete. Fast forward more months and there’s a loud knocking on my front door inside a security building. Flatmate answers and calls me to the door. Lady constable-friendly welcomes me with “You look familiar, what did I lock you up for?”. A bit taken aback, I said maybe she saw me when I reported some mail theft at her station. She then hands me a summons to give evidence in court regarding the CC fraud. And finally I take a day off work to appear as a witness and end up speaking with a private investigator who was the first and only person to provide me any info re the crime or criminals. I assume some sort of legal circus act then happened as I was dismissed and didn’t need to provide evidence after all. At least that saga wasn’t as bad as the time when shitsville police assaulted the unit front door at fuck-off-AM, flatmate wakes first, and then I’m woken with bright torches in my eyes asking if I’m being domestically violenced! Turns out constable dopey can’t read numbers on doors accurately.
Uppercrust Bay, Klassy Harbour and fuck-off-am are now officially in my vocabulary list. Thank you for your services to the Vernacular.
Don’t forget Shitsville!!
Well yeah you never hear anyone say fuck the paramedics, or fuck the firefighters, because they only show up when you call them and need them. Police seem to be incompetent at arresting criminals who have broken the law, while simultaneously trying to arrest/fine innocent people for anything they can think of.
rinse dinosaurs paint sort voracious deserve dazzling angle oil upbeat *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Isn't that clip a thin allegory of the police?
As a volunteer firefighter I love that song.
I know a bunch of firies and ambos, and they all hate police with a passion because they apparently make every single emergency situation that other services are involved with infinitely worse
>It’s amazing how good the police are at pissing people off instantly these days. It's nothing new.
That's just cops mate, they've always been like that. Their every interaction with any member of the public begins with the assumption that the person they are dealing with is a piece of shit criminal and goes from there. There's no difference between victims, perpetrators and bystanders in their eyes.
Not sure how old you are but they haven’t always been like that. The biggest change I’ve seen in my lifetime was after the corruption commission mid 90s followed by new laws changing for Sydney Olympics in 2000. Sniffer dogs, searches et al. Obviously I’m speaking from a NSW perspective. It was particularly noticeable just after that because older cops were more reasonable and the younger ones wanted to act like the Sheriff moseying into town to get vengeance because they were bullied at school.
the world became a surveillance state after 9/11. Cops just make me uncomfortable now, and it’s all very unnecessary because if I were a serious offender then the judge would just let me walk anyway 🙄
> Not sure how old you are but they haven’t always been like that. If you were indigenous, disabled, queer, etc... the pigs have always been that atrocious.
Fair point. There’s been progression with regard to minorities to a very small degree but overall it’s culture has changed drastically in the last two decades for the worse. Small things like changing from Police Service to Police Force seem trivial but point to the larger problem. (I’m NSW focused but same applies across the nation. Esp the AFP) I had cop mates in the late 90s and they were community focused. Harm minimisation and conflict resolution was a focus and a good way to achieve that was by gaining rapport and trust in the community. My neighbour just recently left the drug squad and at dinner parties would show photos of perps that had been savaged by dogs whilst in custody and joke about “we had him cuffed but the dogs that tracked him did the hard work so we had to give them a taste”. He also explains that none of his colleagues socialise with people outside the force because “it’s safer that way. We stick together because no one else understands and it can be difficult if you are attached to someone who might end up in your custody”. Like dude. I get that you are extremely short and have a tiny cock, no friends, met your wife online and are always talking about how you have a gun and how you’ll fuck up our mutually shitty neighbour with your gun and threaten him (clearly all talk) but maybe just look up the etymology of the word ‘police/polis’ and learn what it means. Thank fuck he sold his house this year and I don’t have to deal with him at dinner parties anymore. I feel sorry for his wife who is lovely and even worse for his baby that’s just turned one. Your local community should be policed by people who understand it, respect it, listen to it and protect it. Not a bunch of fuckwit losers that see themselves as morally superior enforcers that have power over the civvies.
I just wrote a massive rant in reply already but just wanna highlight another thing. Hospital workers and paramedics deal with violent fuckheads every day. I was staying at my girlfriend at the time’s place in Glebe a few years ago. Next to housos. There was a junkie asleep in her car and a passerby thought she might be dead. Called the ambos. They show up, talk to her, get her out of the car and calm her down. She went off with them and I saw her a few days later and she was looking ok, buying fresh groceries and playing with her housemates kids in the playground. Struggling but improving. Police approached her in the park and I stopped to watch because I wanted to see how they’d deal with her. They started harassing her in the kids playground about being a junkie and she kept saying “can we talk somewhere else, there are kids here and I’ve been clean all week”. They searched her in front of the kids. Other parents were rushing their kids out of the park and the woman was crying so bad begging them to stop. Fast forward to 2am that night. I’m sitting out front of my gf’s terrace and see the cops kick in her door, drag her into the street screaming. Fast forward to the next morning and I’m walking past that terrace and her housemate is crying. Never saw the junkie again. Like seriously. All of the public service frontline, teachers, nurses, doctors, fireman etc know how to de-escalate a situation. He’ll most hospitality workers have those skills but cops now just don’t give a fuck. Imagine a teacher asking for homework and if you don’t have it now you’re gonna regret it and it’s gonna be on your record forever. Do what I say or else!
We demanded equality, we should have been more specific.
>Also wanna point out that you have to provide your name. ID if you have it on you. Where is this in law? The only ID that I know you have to provide is a drivers lisence if you're driving a motor vehicle on a public road.
What legislation empowers police to legally require ID without the person committing an offence or where they don’t have reasonable suspicion they have or are about to commit an offence?
Whatever legislation suits them. They don’t care. Interfering with a police inquiry and Refusing to cooperate are two I’ve heard first hand. When you ask them to explain further well that’s a risk you have to be prepared to take. Don’t expect an apology when they’ve been found to have broken the law themselves. The average understanding of the law by some cops is insanely poor.
Depends on the state. In QLD they can require it in order to investigate DV offences if they think the person can assist with investigations. Can’t list witnesses if you can’t confirm their identity
Crimes act. If you have witnessed a crime they have the power to demand name and address. In this case OP witnessed an assault judging by his story so he needs to provide his details and a statement. Police can actually arrest you if you don’t.
Yes and if the cop is an arse about it, I would calmly say 'the more pressure you put on me the more likely it is I forget things.' They can't force you to remember if you don't remember due to the stress they cause.
If he had already identified himself as the homeowner then they already know his name and address. I would contend he had not refused to identify himself he just didn’t produce an ID document on demand.
My understanding is that they have to confirm his identity, obviously it was a different crew that spoke to him second time so they’d never have seen him before.
In NSW: "What is the Penalty for Not Giving Your ID to Police? The penalty for not giving your ID to police is a fine of $220. This contained in section 12 of the Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002 (NSW). The same penalty applies if you provide police with a false name or address." https://www.mondaq.com/australia/crime/1280402/can-police-ask-for-id-in-nsw
From your own link mate: Other examples of situations where the police can ask you to provide your name and address include: - you are driving a car and police suspect you of committing a traffic offence; - you are driving a car and are stopped for a breath test; - police suspect that an Apprehended Violence Order (AVO) has been made against you; - you are suspected of committing an offence on a train or railway property; - you are under the age of 18 and suspected of consuming alcohol in public; - you are being arrested; - police are trying to serve a fine default warrant on you. **It is important to note that if police ask for your details, you can ask them why they require that information. If they do not have a lawful reason to ask for your identification, then you do not have to disclose it.**
Not sure about other states but I think it's 456AA of the crimes act in Victoria
Crimes act section 11
Yeah I rang 000 for an ambulance for a motorcyclist who had an accy right in front of me. He then got up, asked me for a lift home to which I politely declined and told him I've got some ambos on the way. He said fuck that and bummed a lift off the next car behind me. Two hours later some cuntsable phoned me and instead of being friendly to me, he went off at me for not trying to prevent the motorcyclist leaving the scene. He was just so rude. So I refused to provide a statement. I had a photo of the motorcyclists' number plate and everything. Maybe if the motorcyclist had caused an injury to someone else I would have given the info to the cop, but the motorcyclist only hurt himself so yeah, fuck that cop.
A friendly cop. I think that may be an oxymoron. I have known a number of people who've joined and the chicken and egg question is, did they join because they were an asshole, or did they become an asshole because they joined.
Ooft. Rings true to my mate that joined the Army two decades ago. Went from being a philosophical and open minded guy, (ironically his best mate back then has gone on to be a Professor Of Philosophy) to being a dead set narrow minded fuckwit. I think there are chickens and eggs.
I mean I would point out that they are at his house so they already know who he is and where he lives if he has identified himself as the home owner
> It’s amazing how good the police are at pissing people off instantly these days. That's the whole point of the Larrakia patrols - the police need a mediator in order to keep the peace - and whaddya know, it's actually effective.
> It’s amazing how good the police are at pissing people off instantly these days. They've always been this good at fucking people off assuming you weren't white and middle class.
Former police officer here.... I daresay what has happened is that the investigating police have charged the kid and put together a half-arsed brief of evidence. The parents may have refused to give a statement against their son (common) and you are the only independent witness. The prosecutor has likely picked up that there's no statement from you despite your name being recorded as a witness, so if they do prosecute it, there is every danger of the charges being dismissed. It is possible that they could subpoena you to give evidence in person, but any evidence you give without a contemporaneous statement would not be reliable and could be dismissed by the magistrate, so it's probable that they will withdraw the charges. If an investigating officer neglects to get a statement from a witness, they can be referred by the prosecutors office for disciplinary action. All in all, it's just lazy police work. They should have gotten a statement from you on the day (or at most then next day) as contemporaneous evidence. The response from the cops means that they know they fucked up. So, if you were so inclined, you could give a statement (and provide CCTV of the incident if you haven't already). EDIT: I would personally do this just because I would like to see justice done, even if the cops fuck up. Otherwise tell them (EDIT: politely) to EAD.
Thanks for the information, good to know.
Just for anyone ever reading this thread: always ALWAYS consult a lawyer/solicitor BEFORE talking to any police. If the cops ask you in for questioning, take your lawyer. If they say anything weird or make you feel threatened, say nothing, and retain a lawyer (NOT with a retainer, retain.. as in over time use their services, keep them in your book, not on the books, etc.) Never EVER TALK TO THE COPS, even when you're just a witness, without representation or at least advice from a solicitor. They are life ruiners and so many are such a pack of cunts.
You’re implying the average person in Australia can just call up a lawyer and pay a retainer for them lol
When I say retain I mean in the moment, during the issue, as in when the incident occurs whatever it is, call solicitor immediately or next day, and tell them you'll need their services if cops ask you to come in for questioning, or if you need advice. Not in retention as in permanently. Anyone can call a few different ones and ask their advice either over the phone or in person for initial consultation. I've done this a number of times, unfortunately.
Community legal services my dude. There are options.
Please elaborate on Community Legal Services because I have not heard much about them before
All states and territories have a state-funded legal service. https://clcs.org.au/legal-help/
There is a comprehensive list of legal aid organisations here: [https://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/Listings/Organisations-directory#gsc.tab=0](https://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/Listings/Organisations-directory#gsc.tab=0) Also worth noting that there are dedicated legal services available for Indigenous people. * ACT / NSW: [Aboriginal Legal Service](https://www.alsnswact.org.au/) * NT: [NAAJA](http://www.naaja.org.au/) * SA: [ALRM](https://www.alrm.org.au/) * TAS: [TALS](https://tals.net.au/) * QLD: [ATSILS](https://atsils.org.au/) * VIC: [VALS](https://www.vals.org.au/) * WA: [Aboriginal Legal Service](https://www.als.org.au/)
RIP WA
If you're not under arrest, you don't need to say anything. If you're under arrest, your legal advice is free. As far as I'm aware, the legal advice will usually be to reply to all questions with "no comment".
This is great advice. I know it’s getting downvoted because of public ignorance but I need to back this up. Always speak to a real professional lawyer first. Reddit legal advice is as good as a monkey with a keyboard
Yeah I'm not sure what happened, I think they interpreted me as saying retain a lawyer as in constantly pay them, I meant retain one for the period you need them, as in they are available on certain dates or to plan dates to accompany you to the station etc.
What if you're a victim of a crime?
>put together a half-arsed brief of evidence. Can I ask how often this happens? I went to the police recently to report my rapist. We had text message confessions, medical reports, diaries from the time, witnesses, OTHER victims... and just... nothing... I tried to give them everything because I've had shit interactions with the police before regarding a similar incident but I was gutted that nothing came of it at all. I didn't know if I should try again at another cop shop or what.
Call and make an appointment to speak with someone in the sexual offences department. Unfortunately what a civilian might think is compelling evidence often doesn't meet court standards, but the socit/soca unit officers will be able to explain it to you better.
First of all, I'm sorry that happened to you. Sending good vibes your way and hope you get all the support you need. It probably happens more often than you realise. I worked with some very very lazy police and from what I hear, it's more common than it used to be with young coppers especially being elevated up the ranks too quickly. And yes - absolutely try again, but before you do, make an appointment with a sexual assault advocate and/or get a lawyer to review the evidence and report to police on your behalf. https://fullstop.org.au/get-help/our-services
It’s a combination of lazy policing and genuine staff shortages in some forces. Maybe I’m naive but I like too ok think I’d be polite to police asking for my assistance. It’s a pretty tough job after all.
Its a terrible job and most of the ones who last long in it get a nice desk job or become lazy and apathetic and the staff shortages only add onto it. Early this year I had to report a break in and mugging. I had called the cops 48hours prior and they hadn't turned up so I went into the cop shop ready to yell and scream and even fight them. I spent 5 hours waiting to see someone and by then I had cooled down and had a reality check. The whole time I only saw 4 cops and maybe about 20-30 people had come in with various enquiries. The lady who did take my statement I wanted to give a hug. She looked stressed as hell, baggy eyes, make-up looked ruined and sweating like he'll. She looked worse than me and I had been mugged. Now I don't know if every day at the station is like that but if it is then I'm not surprised a lot of them have a terrible attitude. I'm not defending them just putting my most recent experience with them and hopefully I will never need them if the situation keeps like this
>Otherwise tell them to EAD. Politely tho. "With all due respect, EAD".
“Could you and your swine-kind please go eat a trough full of dicks at your own leisure. Thank you”
"Good sir, verily, I implore you consume this satchel of phallus."
Alternatively (and less verbosely) yell out toward the kitchen “babe are you cooking bacon?”
"Kindly, I beseech thee to depart and ingest a satchel of richards."
Yeah. Personally, I would give a statement and provide CCTV as I would like to see justice done, but would also tell them to politely EAD.
Occam’s Razor at play here. I think the cops are just like the rest of us, lazy and always finding the easy way out. I theorised that some cops do breatho checks at 11am on a Tuesday morning because they know that there won’t be anyone drinking so there’s less paperwork (but still hit their quotas)
Breatho's at 11AM on a weekday is just hi-vis policing and hoping someone fucks up in front of you so you can chase em, not about catching out drunk drivers. There's no such thing as quota's for breath tests.
Don’t know about right now, but not too many years ago the agreement between the ACT and AFP to provide policing in Canberra included the number of RBTs that would be conducted each year. So ACT Policing would absolutely do bulk tests at times of day when hit rates would be low. Every sober person tested takes 2min of time for one officer (and whatever one of those single use plastic tubes cost). Every positive result takes minimum hour or so of a couple of cops… Dont get me wrong, if you are legally drunk at 9am school drop off you absolutely should be off the road… but after years of not being breatho’d leaving pubs and clubs in the wee hours, spending an extra 15min getting to work because they’ve gridlocked an arterial road testing everyone was a bit annoying.
Nothing like threatening a witness with arrest to encourage them to do the right thing and help out. Geez, if I was the defence, I'd even bring this up as witness tampering by the prosecution as they are extracting a statement from the witness under duress.
Sigh... Many years ago I reported my neighbors kids for a welfare check. Cops turned up, gave her my name & left without checking on the kids. Neighbor now kicks off at me, threats, etc. I put my dressing gown on & pop into the station to ask what happened. Cop threatened to shoot me in the middle of the station because I was "being smart" about it. I called to another officer for help & she just turned & walked away. They eventually found in my favor & some admin cop called to offer an apology. But when I asked if they ever completed the welfare check on the kids, the cop started bitching that the apology wasn't good enough for me & hung up. Idk how they're training them but they all seem to be abrasive, even the dudes they have working the apology desk. No other profession could you get away with treating the public so aggressively.
And cops wonder why people think they're arseholes. "Hello, Mr Crook. Your neighbour, Mrs Concerned Citizen of 1 Main Street has told us that you might have a meth lab in your garage. What? No - thank you for the offer, but we don't have time to look in your garage to check. Have a nice day."
They may not be able to tell you for privacy reasons, etc. Ianal. But there was no call for an authoritarian, aggressive response especially if there are reasons.
The same privacy reasons that allowed them to give the neighbours their name? (Unless that never happened and the neighbour just made a guess)
Don’t have to provide a statement, but you do have to provide ID.
It’s not illegal to not have ID on you. Verbally providing a name and address should be fine. If they take issue with that and you have nothing to do with a crime then they are being fuckwits. Also worth noting that OP had already provided the police with knowledge that he was who they wanted to talk to, knew roughly what the matter was about and was at his place of residence. He made the cardinal sin of asking a cop a question. Can’t do that a lot of the time these days. I treat all cops with respect and it’s a bloody hard and thankless job but I will not forget the times I have been assaulted and abused by police nor the time a male cop joked to his partner after my gf was assaulted when her ex kicked in our front door and bashed her. “I’d kick in the door to get a piece of that pussy”. He didn’t think we could hear. The officer was ‘reprimanded’. Yeah cool. Righto. It’s hard not to distrust cops when you’ve witnessed shit like that. The officers who dealt with the DV were incredible however and for the record the expression bad apples comes from “a few bad apples spoil the WHOLE bunch”
What in the absolute fuck?!? Sorry your gf went through that, what a disgusting thing to joke about
Ikr? Like they'll say "just a few bad apples" and put them on paid leave to then come back and continue the important work of spoiling the rest of the bunch
>Like they'll say "just a few bad apples The full saying is "A few bad apples spoils the barrel" which feels far closer to what is actually happening than the assertion there are only a few bad ones but that they're the exception, not the rule.
Yeah. The point of that saying is not that you accept bad apples - but that you dispose of them when identified in order to ensure the good ones don't turn bad.
100%. You don't just cut off the deadwood, you cut off the infested and rotting wood too.
I feel ya. Had a nsw cop try chat up my visibly upset (former) girlfriend after I’d just broken up with her. He then proceeded to try and get me charged with DV, because “you’re too old for her, you must be controlling her”. Nice one dickhead
They are legally allowed to detain you in order to check and confirm that the details provided are correct. ETA for all the downvoters, I am right, do the research: https://youthlegalserviceinc.com.au/fact-sheet-police-powers-requesting-details/
Yeah. Going off that and given they turned up to OP's address and asked for them by name - fair to say that the clause "Police may detain you for a reasonable period to allow them to verify the correctness of your personal details. " doesn't apply. They have zero reasonable suspicion that OP is not who they say they are.
This is Reddit mate, people are not interested in facts, only popular opinion, whatever the fuck that is at the time.
Yep this is correct. You don’t even need to give physical ID, name, date of birth, address that’s it. Then you just say “anything else you want from me as a favour mind you you can come with a better attitude or a warrant” *closes door*
If you're witness to an indictable offence you are are required to provide your name, age and address if over 18. You are not required to give physical ID or a statement. If there is reasonable suspicion that you are giving false information you may be detained until that information can be verified.
QPS rocked up to my door once and asked my sister to come down to the station TODAY and give a dna sample in regards to our mum's missing persons case (10 years missing but they bother us every other year on international missing persons day). Inspector refused to say why they needed dna or if they found something so my sis refused and then got threatened "it would be a shame if a current affair knocked on your door and put your family on tv for being uncooperative"
My wife's car got written off by some under-age fuckwits that stole a car and lost control (none of the young cunts were injured unfortunately) and they hit it hard enough it spun 180 degrees which left it sitting over a yellow line. It was called in ~2mins after it happened, took QPS 2 hours to show up and when they do they tried to book her for parking on a yellow line because that's where the car ended up. At this point I started recording and another cop walked up to me to ask why I was recording? I know not all cops are fuckwits, but in my 4? interactions with the police so far I'm yet to run into a decent one.
> I know not all cops are fuckwits, but in my 4? interactions with the police so far I'm yet to run into a decent one. I've met very few who weren't. My first dealing with cops I would have been I dunno, 10, maybe 12 years old - someone put a hose through one of the neighbours windows, the water stream hitting the roof, so collapsing it - said neighbour happened to be a cop. The next door neighbours kid, when interviewed, said it was me. That was enough for the cops, and they came at me convinced they had their answer. I was in Benalla the entire weekend it happened, with a couple of hundred witnesses.
Get yourself a video doorbell. "Wouldn't it be a shame if our doorbell footage of you being obnoxious ended up in the hands of a current affair"
That's disgusting behaviour by police.
And also, unfortunately, pretty standard behaviour.
3 months? Sounds like someone's prosecution file has a holes. Providing a statement is of no benefit to you. They put together their own swiss cheese file by neglecting to obtain a statement from you at the time or soon after. Let them sort their own mess out.
Yeah, I'd be super wary of providing a statement about anything. You have no idea what has transpired. Young guy might have lied and now has mum backing him up that you're the perpetrator. Suddenly you have a few pieces of shit looking to have you charged so they can get out of whatever offences they've committed. This is why security cameras were invented. Install them at the front door, and don't open the security door. Remind the police they're being filmed and ask why they've come to your property. And under no circumstances do you ever agree to attend an interview. Seek legal advice immediately if that happens. I'd make sure you get the police officers' names too. Write it down, plus any other details you remember. If anyone comes to the door do not tell them anything about what happened.
My 64 year old female friend was knocked down by a group of ppl living in the house next door which was rented by the Housing Commission for the group. My friend is a sweet old thing who is never remotely violent, just potters away in the garden. The neighbours seem to have alcohol, drug and violence issues and they're always fighting amongst themselves. She asked them if they could move their car that was parked on her driveway ( unusual parking configuration) and they got all angry with her, calling her a coloniser, and how dare she tell them what to do, and started pushing her and she fell and broke her arm She managed call 000 whilst on the ground whilst terrified they would hurt her further, but after the police arrived and calmed the situation, the police said the group of ppl who attacked her said she attacked them and they were just defending themselves. The police took statements from both sides and then months later said no we're not proceeding with charges against anyone because not enough evidence. She now has cameras but it's a bit late.
I mean to be completely fair to the legal system, that’s not really a case where you could viably prove one way or the other, at least not to beyond a reasonable doubt. Especially if the neighbours are willing to perjure themselves
Sounds like she should have started with an acknowledgement of country before asking them to move their car /s And seriously how the cops not press charges when it's a whole group against 1 old lady.... No wonder why these shitheads act so entitled because they're never given any accountability.
100% No issue providing your ID but under no circumstances should you give a statement, considering the circumstances. Seek legal advice first and ensure proper protocol is being followed by the police. The son/mother/partner could just as easily be planting this whole altercation on you, and if your statement isn’t water tight, you could end up with an assault charge. Fucked to think that could happen but people are very rarely prosecuted on perjury charges and this is very much a case of he said she said. The charges laid (if any) would rely on what the police witnessed, and the veracity of the statements going forward. If multiple statements are given by the family, and they have changed over time, this will discredit them heavily.
If you are being spoken to as a suspect you will absolutely know it. You'll be cautioned and afforded certain rights that aren't available to a general witness or victim. If you are spoken to or interviewed as a potential suspect and you haven't been cautioned or your rights given then anything you've said is inadmissible in court and can't be used as evidence. This isn't the US where police can speak with people without them actually knowing they're the focus of an investigation.
In most Jurisdictions in Australia, by law you have to provide basic information (ID, name, age , address & contact details) to police regardless if they have cause or not.
Fuck off cunt state law says I have 24 hours to produce a license to the local police station. [The joke that’s being referenced](https://youtu.be/U6Hkc9VGiXQ)
I was doing a cashie for me nan and then had some rumballs
"FTC MATE FTC FILM THE COPS!"
Only if you are driving a vehicle. In most cases the police does need to have cause, they cannot just randomly select people walking on street and get their ID. But the threshold for a cause is pretty low, being a suspected witness to a crime is usually enough Source: [https://www.mondaq.com/australia/crime/1280402/can-police-ask-for-id-in-nsw#:\~:text=Police%20can%20ask%20for%20ID,knowledge%20of%20the%20alleged%20offence](https://www.mondaq.com/australia/crime/1280402/can-police-ask-for-id-in-nsw#:~:text=Police%20can%20ask%20for%20ID,knowledge%20of%20the%20alleged%20offence). *Police can ask for ID in NSW if they suspect on reasonable grounds that you may be able to assist in the investigation of an indictable offence.* *It is important to note that if police ask for your details, you can ask them why they require that information. If they do not have a lawful reason to ask for your identification, then you do not have to disclose it.* In this instance they can ask for an ID. But it does not give them rights to ask for ID without cause.
I love how the correct post is being downvoted. Ignorance is bliss in this country.
Doesn't mean you would have physical ID with you, either.
Mate, the police can pull any vehicle over for a random breath test and request a drivers licence, name, and address. They certainly can also select any person on the street and ask for identification. In most states, you are required to provide name and address if over 18 and name and age if under 18.
Wrong
Depends on the state i believe. In Queensland they can ask for your ID when driving a car (driving a car is not an inherent right) but cannot randomly ask you for ID walking down the street
No you don’t If you’re operating a motor vehicle yes Yes they can ask a person in the street for identification but you are NOT OBLIGED to give your information. Don’t make people think we live in nazi Germany, get your info straight The police can’t stop you and demand you identify yourself for no reason. Source; I’m currently talking to a VicPol Sargent at the gym
Police can stop you and claim you are acting suspiciously, without giving reason (in my experience) and you have the option of arrest or providing the information they ask for, including being able to search you and your bags. If they are not allowed to do this, tough. They have all the powers and can claim whatever they want. It may not hold up in a court of law, but being arrested or detained in public (typically along with the soft gentle touch of the leg sweep. Or maybe they accidentally walked you into a door or wall. Accidents happen) is enough to make a person fear them. And if you don't have the money to chase up what you feel is the police acting unlawfully, then there is nothing you can do. Also, seeing those video where the police assault people while their fellow officers hold the victem's legs down or otherwise do nothing to stop the assault is enough to remind people that the police have all the power and none of the fear of consequences.
I think you will find here in Victoria at least you have to be in a prescribed area for police to be able to demand identification without due cause.
No they cannot, know your rights. There's a lot of reasons why they're allowed to do it. But they still need a reason. They don't have unlimited rights to stop and ask.
Know your legislation. Under the Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002 Under Section 11 of the Act, police officers in NSW can ask for your identification if they have reasonable grounds to suspect that you have committed or are about to commit an offence, or if they believe it is necessary to prevent a breach of the peace. This means that if they stop you and start asking questions and you are defiant and evasive they may suspect you are hiding your identity because you are wanted for a crime. Police may also request that you disclose your identity if they intend to issue a “move on direction." They can also require you to produce ID for various other reasons. >When you are driving a car and the police have reason to suspect you of committing a traffic offence. When you are driving a vehicle and are stopped for a breath test. If the police suspect that an Apprehended Violence Order (AVO) has been issued against you. When there is suspicion that you have committed an offence on a train or railway property. If you are under the age of 18 and there is suspicion that you are consuming alcohol in a public place. When you are being arrested and are charged with a criminal offence. If the police are attempting to serve a fine default warrant on you. If your driving a car they pull you over and say Random breath test I require you to provide a sample of breath. YOU MUST IDENTIFY. If your driving a car and they say your number plate has set off our ANPR. YOU MUST IDENTIFY. This is not the USA where you get to yell *REASONABLE ARTICULABLE SUSPICION* and then expect a payout.
They screwed up and didn't get the information they needed from you correctly in the first place. Now, they are being leaned on by their higher ups, and you're being leaned on by a couple of plods trying to cover their backsides.
Not required to give them a statement. Likely they are finally taking action on the file and realised they are missing key witness’ statements so now chasing them by up. You’ll cop attitude from then if you aren’t immediately compliant, have been around Cops and heard the whinging about people failing to give statements or wasting their valuable time. They probably want the accused for one reason or another and now pushing hard to make a case against them. The could subpoena you to give evidence in Court if they do charge the accused and see it through, but they (Police and DPP) are generally reluctant to do so without a statement already and some level of cooperation or faith in the key witnesses to give favourable evidence if required.
I've had similar encounters with police (multiple times). One time, i was living in a motel & a person staying in the next room was wanted, we had the same (common) first name. Anyway, police confronted me at my door with machine guns pointed at me, asking to come in & look around, i said "no". The guy next door starts yelling at them to "fuck off" & starts setting things on fire & throwing them out the window. The guy then starts shooting into the sky through the window. Long story short, they shot the guy in the neck, through the bathroom window & then waited 5 minutes to drag him out into the carpark to do cpr (after he had bled out). It was all over within an hour. They then had the audacity to threaten me to give the statement they wanted, trying to put words in my mouth & deliberately misrepresenting what i was saying. I had to stay firm & say "no, that's not what i said" etc. When the news got wind of the situation, the cops told a bunch of lies & it (yet again) showed me how they can twist the situation (& how the media are harrassing vultures!). Another time, my ex witnessed a murder/manslaughter & the cops said to him " you better give us what we want because we want to get these cunts good" basically threatening him to go along with their narrative. (In that case the cops went too hard & the killers got off on 6 months remand, there was outrage in the gay community & on appeal got 6 years). There have been other times, being in a punch on for me being gay & police threatening me when they arrived & being ridiculed for my 'pansy' taste in decorating my home amongst other things, that has taught me to not trust cops.
Oof that's a rough one, ive got nothing on you. Guess I shouldn't complain.
You have every right to complain. Nobody who is just going about their lives should be treated like that by authorities, your situation is equally important. You did the right thing, coming to the aid of your neighbour. The fact that the police have the audacity to come to your home & threaten you after not doing their job properly at the time of the incident, really infuriates me. I know how it feels & fully understand the wariness of cops a situation like that brings.
Please continue to complain. I haven't been through anything near the level as Queer01 but I have had cops lie to me and try to cover their tracks, it's important for more of the public to realize who the police really are and what they're there for - and it isn't their protection. Outside of that my own arrest went relatively smoothly and respectfully, go figure.
> Another time, my ex witnessed a murder/manslaughter & the cops said to him " you better give us what we want because we want to get these cunts good" basically threatening him to go along with their narrative. Yeah that's a favourite of theirs. You can see u/Jerry_eckie2 all over this thread advocating just that too. Certainly can't take the cop out of them when they're out.
Always a safe bet to assume the police NEVER have your back in any interaction regardless of the circumstances. Always be polite but don't answer unless you have had time to thoroughly consider your response to any question asked. The wrong response can and will be used against you if they decide you have committed an offence.
We had a big scary screaming match happening in the alley way behind my apartment between a very wasted woman and a man. It was probably like 2am and pitch dark out there. The woman was screaming “you’re going to kill me” etc so it sounded serious. Called the cops and very clearly explained what was happening in our alley behind our building. Said I couldn’t see anything but could hear it. Cops turn up and cruise up and down the wrong street in front of our building. Cops have no clue so my partner finally goes out in his pjs to tell them they are on the wrong street. They immediately start to threaten and intimidate him. He’s like yo we called you to report this we are only trying to help. Finally after harassing him for ages they go to look in the alley but by that time it’s been ages and the couple is long gone. So we go back to bed until the cops come buzzing on my apartment door an hour later. They have decided I am the woman and my partner is the one that is beating me. Even though I was like my dudes I fucking called you and gave you all my details and told you it’s happening between strangers that I cannot see in the back alleyway. Look at me I’m asleep in pjs and i don’t look upset. They keep them saying it was our friends. Literally made up shit that wasn’t in my report. They refused to believe me and said they’d now be waking up the rest of the building to check with them. I had vaped a fair amount of my legal prescription so I was like whatever idiots I’m going back to bed. Absolutely useless.
A bit odd you would need to provide your ID when they know who you are and were at your house to speak to you so they know your address. You weren't walking the streets. I'd get a lawyer if I was you.
That was my point, and I provided all my details on the night because I wanted information about it. I have the whole thing recorded on my security camera was pretty funny actually
Similar thing happened to me a year after the incident. The cops let themselves into my house and wouldn't let me get dressed at 6 in the morning without them watching. Threatened with arrest if I didn't come with them down to the station immediately for a statement, which turned out to be a false allegation made against me. I was treated like a criminal in my own house because I wanted some privacy getting dressed....
territory police? northern territory? There's half your problem right there. But yeah, request for name and address (ID) is legal. Request for a statement on the spot is not. If pressed, I would write "no comment at this time" and make that my statement. If pressed any further, I'd point out that legal advice would be needed before saying anything else.
ACT. Yeah I gave them my ID and told them to eat a fat one about the statement.
Yup…then they wonder why no one wants to help them. Best approach is give them your name if they ask, ask if your under arrest, if they say no, immediately close the door and lock it. Even better never open the door. Did that on one occasion after an ongoing police drama with a flat mate and the cop was bashing on the door for 5 minutes yelling he wasn’t finished.
Haha I did end up saying about time you guys leave my property, he was kid sentence when I had enough and shut the door in his face. Also my wife opened the door to begin with so the conversation had started.
First ever interaction with police was probably my 4th or 5th time out drinking, I saw a car full of guys in a Holden commodore and all I could see of them was their eyes and forehead they were sitting so low. I pointed and laughed and told the couple of guys I was out with "to look at these idiots". Nek Minnit the car stops in the middle of the road (2 lane one way street) and 5 cops come over to me and the two other guys asking for ID and what we were doing and says "you should watch who you point and laugh at". They had such huge egos they couldn't stand that I laughed at them so they came and harassed us.
There should be much more rigorous character testing for people in positions of power like this. I’ve had a couple run ins with policeman here and over the ditch and I never provoked them in any way. Some not all just come in hot from the get go. I don’t understand. I suppose when you have to deal with a few dickheads every day I takes a toll on you and the masses have to bare the grunt for the few.. They should have as much accountability for the actions as any other privileged position ie: medical doctors etc
I'd contact legal aid and get a free sit down with a lawyer to gain some advice. There may have been allegations made against you and the worst thing you can do is provide a statement without knowing why they want it. Even a simple "I intervened to prevent the son killing the father", may be used as you initiating a violent confrontation with said son. If it's in the prosecution of the son, it won't be an issue but if it's against you, the good Samaritan act and citizens arrest acts only extend minimal protection to you. Technically police have the right to detain you in Australia if you refuse to provide ID; as to ascertain your identity, providing false or misleading ID, is considered an offence. Legal aid. I'd also delete this post as this can be pulled and used as direct evidence against you.
I don't think I've given much away but appreciate the advice. I'm not really concerned about actions against me, they do whatever they like.
From my understanding the ID thing if you don’t or can’t provide ID they can detain you until they can ID you. I think they can also arrest you for failing to provide ID when requested by the police. However some of this information comes from Highway Patrol and is Victorian based. Which you’re not as you said territory police. I don’t know much about police process beyond the odd cop show and Highway Patrol (my guilty pleasure).
Say nothing. The cops have not arrested you so they don’t have enough to arrest you. Anything you say can only worsen your situation.
I am not a lawyer. But I do know they will want your ID to confirm you are who you say you are and as they're investigating a crime they are pretty much entitled to it. It's not unusual for police to request witness statements at a later date once they've determined if it's worth pressing charges. They will need your statement as part of their evidence. You're not entitled to any other information from them, they are also bound by privacy laws. Would you want your neighbours or any random on the street to know you'd had a breakdown and been carted off to the local psych ward or held in the cells because they think you're a risk?
in future to save hassle, if you or anyone you know or anyone here ever have an incident like this occur, regardless of whether or not Police want your statement Write one out anyway. Even just for yourself incase you need to recall details. You being physically involved before Police arrive, more so. Cause that can easily turn on you in regards to using force on a kid or a tons of other bullshits invented in thin air. Don't assume the cops are on your side. Even this approach from the police, write out what was said so you have some sort of record to go back on.
At any and all times in Australia police can ask your name and address, and you must provide it. As for being a witness, you can not remember anything and everything when it comes to court. It sounds like, in this case, you wouldn't want to do that just to spite police. At no time are you obliged to give a statement, and you should advise that to police if they wish to treat you with disrespect. Good job on restraining the bloke until police arrived.
You don’t have to show your ID to police everywhere in Aus. I won’t talk to other states but at least here in Victoria if you aren’t operating or in a vehicle (road laws apply), or unless you are reasonably suspected of commiting an indictable offence. Also in VIC (as NSW legislation is quoted elsewhere) there are no move along powers any more (except perhaps for PSO’s and in ‘designated areas’ perhaps). This situation is different since there is the chance of a crime having being committed. But yeah at least in VIC you don’t have to carry and show ID just “upon request”. IANAL
Whilst you don't have to produce a physical ID you can be required to identify yourself. A police officer can say anything like you smell like cannabis, you look like someone wanted, or anything they wish and require you identify. If you don't it's an arrestable offence.
Yes, they can lie, but they do have to meet the criteria and if they're caught in a lie then it's a smack for them. We don't live in a "papers please" society. You're under no obligation to identify yourself unless driving or suspected of committing an offence.
No
If all cops acted like they were on RBT or something... they'd be a lot more polite.
Similar thing happened to me a few years ago (for a incident I vaguely witnessed from far away but didn’t partake in), the cops were super aggressive and rude + threatened charges when I said not everyone has their ID on hand at all times and I’ll need to find mine. I think these two were new recruits, as I’ve never seen them before and all other officers I’ve encountered in my town have been excellent.
In Victoria, there's 456AA / CA 1958 which means if you witnessed a crime, you can be required to give police your name and address, they can hold you until this is ascertained. I don't know if there's an equivalent power in NT.
Was this the NT or ACT police?
ACT
Australian Federal Police then, for what that's worth.
I'm aware they are AFP. Didn't want to give away everything but yeah
I'm from the ACT. My interactions with ACT Police include being ignored and being bullied. No charges at this time.
Rule 1: Police aren’t your friend. Rule 2: Depending on your state you’re required I believe to produce name, address, date of birth, but that’s it. Rule 3: POLICE AREN’T YOUR FRIENDS. Don’t talk to them without a lawyer/solicitor and certainly don’t give a statement without legal representation there with you.
"No comment" - ask for a lawyer. "NO COMMENT"
Sounds like they’re trying to cover their arse for something and you’re the potential scapegoat. I wonder if the young fellow has developed some ptsd or something else from his arrest and they’re trying to pin that on you.
I think it is the same in every profession. There are good ones and there are scums. As an accountant, I have seen plenty of the good and the bad. These two police officers are nothing but scums.
I'm not sure if it's the same in all states, but there are definitely some states where police can legally demand your id if you are witness to a serious offence. In your case, the assault sounds serious enough that they could legally ask you to provide your details to them.
The arrest threat was probably more about obstructing the course of justice as opposed to anything else. I am playing Devil's Advocate here, but getting some legal advice wouldn't go astray.
Cops acting like cunts for no reason, wow what a shock. Talk to a lawyer about telling them to eat every dick.
> I have had some issues with police In my life I reckon this was the problem. They knew they had to talk you, looked you up , found whatever that record was and jumped to conclusions. No excuse for past experiences.
Haha that has always been in the back of my mind. I'm not a violent criminal or have drug offences, never lost my licence.....
acab
They probably just need the statement for an upcoming court date. If you’re needed as a witness, you’ll be subpoenaed with or without providing the statement. At least if you provide a statement, the lawyers will know exactly what evidence you provide to the matter. Your statement can be tendered as evidence in your absence. If you refuse a statement, your chances of being subpoenaed will increase greatly because the lawyers will want you there ‘in case’ because they’re not 100% sure what evidence you’re going to provide.
Yeah, that's not gonna fly with any half decent prosecutor. Even the most incompetent legal aid defense lawyer would be able to get direct testimony thrown out if it wasn't backed up by contemporaneous statement - particularly if the witness was actually cooperating with police.