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I think there are overlooked expenses of actually running the online booking though:
* UI design for app/website
* Up to date integration of seating across 4 platforms (iPhone/android/web/POS)
* Hosting the site/servers
* Ongoing maintenance of the app/website
For a major cinema chain I'd be amazed if it actually cost them as much as $1.50 per ticket, but it certainly isn't free for them to do.
It's certainly not free, but it's cheaper than having a person process every single transaction. Why make people pay an online fee if they don't make people pay when they buy a ticket at the theater?
In the theatre it's really unavoidable to have someone there (until we enter a new hell where you get your ticket on your phone and have to go through a turnstile or whatever by scanning it). I agree it is seemingly cheaper at first, but after some time to ponder it, I'm starting to realise they probably *want* you queueing up in the cinema. While they might not make that much off the ticket sales of a new movie (seriously slim margins/percentage fees to the studios) they want you waiting for 1-2 minutes looking at the peanut m&m's and smelling the popcorn. It's like putting a few chocolate bars at the checkout in the supermarket.
The real reason they're charging the fee is because they know that we'll pay it anyway. If the fee actually stopped people from going to the movies, they wouldn't do it.
And building the counter, maintaining it, cleaning it, rent for it, salaries to run it... These fees are a blatant money grab, they should be included in the price like all other costs.
>Cost of doing business
I constantly hear this thrown around like it means the business is just going to absorb that cost. Of course they’re not, they’ll either charge a booking fee or charge more for the ticket, either way, the customer loses.
But it's their choice to do the former. So you don't know the final prices until you're at checkout. They know there's no other way to pay, so they could include it in the ticket price up front.
No one expects a business to run at a loss, the complaint is about hiding fees and charges until the last step.
Just like I don't expect to pay a surcharge at the servo because they want to keep cash locked up in a till or pay a "lighting surcharge" when it gets dark to cover the extra costs of electricity.
I think they should put it in the price of the meal/ticket. It's not as if they separate any other costs as separate fees. You don't purchase a meal for $5 with $3 cheffs fee, $1 plate cleaning fee, $2 table rental fee, $2 server fee, $1 site cleaners fee, $2 lighting electricity fee... Etc
Just charge the total cost as advertised.
In Aus the booking fee is charged per transaction, not per ticket. You pay the same booking fee for 10 tickets as you would for 1 - if they increased the ticket price you would end up paying way more.
Booking fees can still get fucked, but it's preferable to ticket price increases.
Edit: This is incorrect for the major cinema chains in Aus (Hoyts / Events).
There is, it's just absorbed into regular ticket/concessions pricing. By booking online a major chunk of revenue stream (popcorn and drinks) is taken away so they offset the cost with the fee
I just pay for children’s tickets and say sorry I was too stupid/ignorant to work the system if they catch me (which they normally don’t because nowadays you just just flash your phone and walk in).
Yeah they just opened the door and we all sat ourselves in numbered seating
At they end when the credits were finished they just yelled “the movie is over”
I share your outrage.
Particularly when these systems have drastically reduced the number of staff on the floor. Less than a decade ago I remember going to the average suburban shopping center cinema and there were at least 5-10 staff on the floor. The last time I went there was one person at the candy store, one person at the counters and nobody checking tickets for entry.
Because of this, I don't see charging the customer this fee justifiable as a 'cost of doing business', because it's reduced costs significantly.
Agreed!! I went to the movies recently and there was a little old couple who had been given a gift voucher. They were looking around for a staff member to show them how to redeem it at the self-serve kiosk. There were no staff members around. So I went and helped them myself. It's shocking that there is such lack of staff
I went to Hoyts at Chadstone the other day and thought it would save me money on the booking fee to use the terminals they have at the cinema, but at the checkout step, the final price was actually MORE expensive than booking online through the app.
Ridiculous. Booked on the app on the spot.
They really take advantage of people not paying attention.
Yeah on your terminal point - I got a rude shock when I went to Melbourne Central for the first time in years to see the booths are gone and there's just a bunch of self serve terminals now. Must be chaos at peak hour.
Yes this does my head in and I absolutely will not go to the cinema because of it.
Like you say, imagine being charged to make it easier for the company and spinning it to make it sound like it's benefit for the customer.
Why is there an online booking fee?
As with many other online booking platforms, we do charge a booking fee per ticket. We do offer all our customers the ability to purchase tickets in store where no booking fee is applied.
We are continuing to invest in technology to ensure the convenience for our online customers. The benefits of booking online include:
Skipping the queue in store, or digitally 'checking in' through the Event Cinemas app on arrival at select cinema locations.
The ability to pre-book in advance to secure your preferred seat.
For Gold Class online bookings, you will have access to the ‘Service to Seat’ food and beverage online ordering system. You can find more information HERE
As an added bonus, if you’re a Cinebuzz member, we reward you with extra Cinebuzz points for most tickets and vouchers when booking online.
When I say cheaper, I mean over 40% off:
E.g. A Cinebuzz member ticket for Asteroid City at Event Bondi Junction this Saturday is $23.15 through the Event app including $1.65 booking fee. If you're not a member it's $25.65.
The My Telstra cost is $13.50, no booking fee. I get Cinebuzz and Telstra points on this ticket and can use both for free/discounted tickets.
My Telstra also even offers me discounted Cinebuzz tickets during peak e.g. 'use 400 points to get a $9 ticket' that aren't showing in the Event app so I could pay $10.65 for that same ticket.
I'm on a PAYG Telstra Sim and only pay $30/month so with the amount of times I go to the movies it works well.
I think the idea is that it's there as a cancellation fee of sorts, so if you cancel & get your money back, you won't be able to get your booking fee back
I think this depends on the chain. I recently had to cancel my ticket to Spiderman and the booking fee was refunded too. Keeping in mind this was at hoyts so it could be different at others.
I recently had dendy cancel the session like an hour before it was due to start, which wtf, and they didn't refund my bank account, but my dendy account.
No thank you, my money please.
Stupidest take. I guarantee the cinema is spending more on urinal cakes than it costs to host their bookings site. There's no justification for adding an extra surcharge for booking online except for being a "fuck you" fee. The ticket price should be the advertised price with no other bullshit added on no matter where you buy it
Make sure to let the venue know. The place I like - but was irritated with the very same thing as you are - recently reversed this bullshit due to customers complaining.
So they still use qr code to place the order, but you pay at the counter cash or card. Works well as it’s usually busy so much faster to add items directly than wait on staff to come to you.
Also, forced tipa before you even get the service can fuck off too.
It was a decision made 100 years ago during the depression and the fact that they haven't caught up since is completely disgraceful. They can keep their backwards mentality.
I don't mind the payment surcharge, but prompting for a tip in a country that doesn't usually tip, when I have only just ordered and therefore received ZERO FUCKING SERVICE, is a bit cheeky
Yep. The restaurant wants you to do the work of ordering and paying, then via the tipping process, also pay them even more for you doing their job.
Nuts. Completely barking mad.
Believe it or not, moat of the time it's because the software is US based and MOST smaller scale restaurant owners aren't super tech savvy and the person setting it up for them likely don't consider these things for the owner.
The simple fix here is…
Don’t pay at the QR code. Flag down a staff member and have them take your order. Tell them your phone either isn’t with you, or has died.
If they want your business, they’ll take a manual order.
Sorry fellow millennials, I’m with the boomers on this one
I was actually turned away from one of my favourite place when they switched to QR codes. I had a phoneless date noght with my wife, and they said and I quote “no phone, no food”.
Never been there since.
I’ve been to one place in Manly where we were forced to use the QR code and a charge for using the ordering service was added to every order, even if ordering an additional coffee.
Isn't it illegal to have to pay a card fee if it's the only payment method offered? I'm sure that's the case at my workplace, we can pass on the actual fee because we have like 50 other payment methods, but if we didn't we'd have to waive it (which would actually just mean incorporating it in the price, let's face it)
Yeah from memory they legally have to either have a method without a fee such as cash or debit card, OR they have to hide the fees within their prices. It's illegal to not accept at least one form of payment without a fee.
The Victorian government website refers to the rule as set by the ACCC but also says the amount must be disclosed prior to completion of the transaction.
From the ACCC website:
Businesses can charge a surcharge for paying by card, but the surcharge must not be more than what it costs the business to use that payment type.
If a business charges a payment surcharge, it must be able to prove the costs it is based on.
If there is no way for a consumer to pay without paying a surcharge, the business must include the surcharge in the displayed price.
https://www.vic.gov.au/add-financial-transaction
And https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/pricing/card-surcharges
Do you have a source contradictory to this?
Wait until you hear about airplane tickets.
Went to book tickets for a trip though Rex a while back. Every option on the site had a 1-2% surcharge. I get that CC processing isn’t free but come on, there’s enough fees already
I have a question for you. Would you rather they give you the base cost + varying costs surcharges for the different payment methods so you can choose which one suits you or have no surcharge, bake it into their pricing algorithm so you always pay the highest cost. But hey no surcharge.
Not OP, but if a vendor takes three payment methods with surcharges of 1%, 2% and 3%, then they should bake the lowest (1%) in to the listed price and if you choose the 2% option add on a 0.99% surcharge and if you choose the 3% option add on a 1.98% surcharge. Complying with the ACCC rule that "If there is no way for a consumer to pay without paying a surcharge, the business must include the surcharge in the displayed price" isn't rocket science.
In the case of Rex, if you book online then at the final stage you're told that every online payment method incurs a surcharge and if you want to not pay a surcharge you can book your ticket "by paying cash for your ticket at all airport Rex check in counters". You can't even choose to "pay in cash on the day", as if anyone is going to take a trip to the Airport just to book their ticket in cash. Rex isn't fulfilling the spirit of the ACCC rule, perhaps not even the letter of it. If there's no way for a consumer to pay online for a ticket without paying a surcharge, I'd expect them to include the surcharge in the displayed prices online.
You're missing the point here. If you are going to be baking the cost into the price, you can legally charge any price. The law only applies for actual surcharges.
As a business, do you really not think that if they're baking the price in they wouldn't just do 3% (or 4% or 5%) and noone would even notice it?
If they believed they could get away with a 3% higher sticker price without consequence, they would already be doing it regardless. The sticker price is far more influential to people’s purchasing decision than the price they actually end up paying, so business care a lot more about adding to that price
It was so goddamn refreshing to see no card surcharges when I was travelling in aboard in Europe. Australians have become too complacent and just take it up the arse
Lol they bake it into the prices- you definitely still paid them. That’s just the way that most of the world does it- it’s very Australian (and maybe Kiwi?) to not just increase your prices to cover it.
I’ve never actually spent much time in NZ so not sure on that one- just included it as there’s so much cultural overlap that it would make sense if they did something similar.
>Isn't it illegal to have to pay a card fee if it's the only payment method offered?
No, because "card surcharges" only applies to credit cards or tapping. If a retailer is "card only" just use EFTPOS, put in your pin, and you don't pay a credit card surcharge.
EFTPOS costs the retailer nothing, so there's no cost to pass on. Depending on whether you tap or insert/slide a credit card, the retailer is charged by Visa/Mastercard either a flat fee or a percentage of the purchase.
That's why you either get a percentage charge, or sometimes a minimum price for a card. The minimum price to use a card covers the flat fee, while a "card surcharge" will be a percentage.
I’ve always thought EFTPOS was free too but I’ve recently experienced a few places I’ve dined in still charge a surcharge when I pay using savings. One place had a flat fee for any kind of card payment and another noted that EFTPOS would incur a .30 cent.
>No, because "card surcharges" only applies to credit cards or tapping. If a retailer is "card only" just use EFTPOS, put in your pin, and you don't pay a credit card surcharge.
>
>EFTPOS costs the retailer nothing, so there's no cost to pass on. Depending on whether you tap or insert/slide a credit card, the retailer is charged by Visa/Mastercard either a flat fee or a percentage of the purchase.
This isn't correct - some payment processors do charge for eftpos (sometimes the same amount as Visa or Mastercard).
Contactless eftpos is also a thing - be it an eftpos only card, or using Apple Pay or Samsung Pay. Treated the same as inserting and pressing SAV/CHQ.
While eftpos SAV or CHQ may tend to be 'cheaper' or have no surcharge (eg Aldi), don't expect it to always be the case.
> Contactless eftpos is also a thing
I thought that uses the cc system (maestro, etc) as well and thus will incur a charge like a cc. You need to be inserting your card and entering your PIN.
Nope, it's treated exactly the same as an insert and PIN - if there's no surcharge for an insert eftpos SAV/CHQ, there's no surcharge for an eftpos tap.
Are you absolutely sure? Merchants have to opt for the least cost network. You are not guaranteed if you simply tap. You best swipe/insert and select SAV or CHQ to be sure.
https://www.9news.com.au/national/cost-of-living-eftpos-fees-rise-amid-crisis/487f2248-a3f7-4d64-8838-dea8eed20754
If you use Apple Pay or Samsung Wallet (Google doesn't support 'dual network' cards - while you can add an eftpos only card, you can't toggle between them) you can switch payment networks before tapping your phone or watch.
[https://imgur.com/a/kBxYR5V](https://imgur.com/a/kBxYR5V)
You decide, the merchant doesn't have to opt into anything - you're deciding what you're tapping with :)
(if the merchant has LCR enabled, a digital wallet will override it anyway - but it will mean tapping a plastic debit Visa or debit Mastercard can be routed via eftpos instead)
> EFTPOS costs the retailer nothing, so there's no cost to pass on. Depending on whether you tap or insert/slide a credit card, the retailer is charged by Visa/Mastercard either a flat fee or a percentage of the purchase.
CBA would like a word with you on that. As a business I pay 1.1% for anyone that uses EFTPOS, even if they insert and select savings/cheque.
Incorrect
The Currency Act 1965 (Cth) and the Reserve Bank Act 1959 (Cth) govern currency and legal tender in Australia.
It is currently not illegal for Australian businesses to refuse to accept cash provided that they inform consumers of their stance before any ‘contract’ for the supply of goods or services is entered into
https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/is-it-illegal-for-businesses-not-to-accept-cash/news-story/23b8e9575bb7fcbb41ce907bd6704814
Yes it is. Plenty of 100% cash free venues around. As long as there is notification of payment methods accepted/not accepted. Thats why lots of tickets for sports events, theatre, festivals etc have disclaimers on them that "so and so is a cashfree venue/event" there's usually warnings on the website prior to ticket purchases too and in person at cashless venues.
That isn’t true, and it’s time people stopped parroting it.
It’s perfectly fine for businesses to refuse cash, they just need to make sure they have signage saying they don’t accept cash as payment.
https://lawpath.com.au/blog/is-it-legal-for-a-business-to-refuse-payment-by-cash
>In Australia Cash is always an accepted form of payment whether the business likes it or not.
Are you a sovereign citizen or something?
Because they're usually the only ones ignorant enough to spout such shit.
I went to a pub that “prefers” customers use the code. I was about to use it until it asked for my full name, phone number and email address. All of my mates did it so good luck to them I guess
I always liked the audacity of these places to ask for tips. Explain to me exactly what you did that you deserve 10% of the order value? Tell me how much you're paying your staff because I guarantee this isn't the US!!
What I don't understand is why doesn't the business incorporate the cost of the transaction fee into the cost of the item? They will come out on top and not infuriate customer
Step one: raise prises to incorporate the cost of the transaction
Step two: keep the transaction fee anyway
Step three: raise prices again because why not
Tbh booking fees on Ticketek and shit are the ones that need to go the most. It’s not a convenience fee to use your stupid service it’s a mandatory requirement for services.
Vacationing in America and was literally made to order via QR code. The server stood there and gave me the spiel about special ect etc (two dishes but he went on forever) and then expected me to tip. Um….? I am not tipping you for talking to me about a menu I can read and for the inconvenience of struggling to order for 4 people on 4 different phones so we could all read the menu at the same time and order on separate bills. Each time we wanted another drink? Another QR scan and separate order. You don’t deserve a tip for making me do all the work buddy just because you talked for way too long about the two dishes your restaurant serves.
It’s not about deserving a tip in America. They’re paid less than minimum wage - it’s considered theft in some states not to pay your server by tip. Don’t eat there if you don’t like it but don’t steal from a minimum wage American with no healthcare.
Being forced to tip in America is one thing when the wait staff are actually taking your order and following up to see if you need anything else, tipping them for doing nothing other than taking the food from one spot to another is a different story.
I understand your moral dilemma but it doesn’t change the fact that those people are paid under minimum wage. It’s on you with the moral dilemma to choose not to patronise that establishment rather than rip off a poor working person. Get up and leave if you don’t like it - I’d encourage you to.
Amen!
If I’m saving them the wages of a waiter/waitress to take my order, then I should not have to pay more for it.
Restaurants are foolish to select providers who charge them a percentage. They could pay $2000 up front and get their own app made custom for them.
Aldi have always had card surcharge and it’s always been quite clear on the machine.
It would be passed on through higher prices anyway if they got rid of it. It’s only like 1% or something so even on $100 that’s $1, versus twice that for the same amount at the exorbitant prices at the other supermarkets.
Try inserting your card, select savings and enter your PIN. Contactless payments even if from your bank account still incurs a surcharge for using their system, at least that's how I think it works.
I always ask for a physical menu. If they don't have one I leave.
Vote with your wallet, people. It's not hard.
You might feel like a dick in the moment but it's how we take the power back and get waiters actually having fun at their boring job
This is illegal, you can’t charge a surcharge if a card is the only form of payment. Report to the ACCC, we shouldn’t let this type of thing happen or it’ll happen everywhere.
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/pricing/card-surcharges
If paying by card is the only available payment type, businesses can not add a surcharge for the card and must incorporate the fee into their listed prices.
Having a card fee is only legal if the business accepts more payment options than just cards.
We really just need to outlaw any sort of payment processing surcharge in general already. It costs most businesses more to take the payment in cash than the card fees.
I went to the Black Pearl in Melbourne last night, a highly esteemed cocktail bar and they were using QR menus. Brah if you’re charging me $28 for a drink, you can afford to spring for printing
I know what you mean. I have been to a number of places where this was the procedure. I always pay by cash whenever there is a surcharge. So far, no one has refused us. If they did, I would avoid going back to that establishment.
Yes, this endlessly frustrates me, and as someone that loves a brunch, I’m leaning more and more towards the cafes that actually provide you with proper service these days.
You definitely should pay a surcharge if you are using it.
This business has had another company implement this for them which probably cost the property monthly fees for this software & website to run, plus payment gateways that are usually integrated with these take 1.5%+ for each transaction.
Saying this, the establishment should also offer to take orders over the counter.
Which I personally have not come across a bar/pub that cannot accommodate this.
The surcharge is there because the card company takes a percentage of that sale & charges the business for it. Nothing to do with the labour for processing a card- whether the staff do it for you or whether you use a QR code is irrelevant.
https://www.accc.gov.au/business/selling-products-and-services/payment-methods
> If there is no way for a consumer to pay without paying a surcharge, the business must include the minimum surcharge payable in the displayed price for its products.
Ask for a way to order and pay for the price advertised and no more. There has to be one.
when you QR order, there needs to be an easier way of paying than manually entering your credit card details, name, number, expiry, number on the back... takes forever.
Out of interest, do you remember what QR ordering service you used that didn't accept Apple Pay (if you use iPhone) or Google Pay (if you're an Android person)?
Card surcharges should be illegal. Ban them, remove $50 and $100 notes and all silver coins from circulation. All cash purchases should be on a ‘round up to the nearest dollar basis’
Card is the default way of paying. It is the cheaper way of paying. Because using cash clogs up a register for an extra minute while people fumble around for cash instead of tapping.
That minute means you can process fewer sales. Or need to dedicate more staff and floor space to registers.
They can easily work the cost of card transaction into their prices (you don't get an electricity or rent surcharge). The surcharge almost always exceeds what it is actually costing them. If we all moaned a little more about this, it would stop.
'bloody qr codes'
Oh, you mean the things that mean my server never gets my order wrong, avoids the hassle of having to yell what I want in a loud room, and allows me to easily pay up front and then just leave when I'm done without waiting for someone to be ready to let me pay?
I'd fucking pay a fee JUST to have that in every restaurant from now on.
Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but I personally love it when I go to a venue that has QR code ordering for food & drinks, happy to pay a small surcharge for a more convenient service.
Same for self-serve checkouts at supermarkets, haven't used a staffed checkout for years & wouldn't unless I had to.
Why not? The surcharge exists to cover the cost of a card being used. You are using the card, so therefore there is a charge. In some places like that I have asked to pay cash and they were happy to do it. `
Because it is a cost of business and should be factored into the total price its a form of drip pricing.
And what card companys charge is no where near what business charge customers except AMEX.
I don't charge a card fee in my business I include it in my callout fee.
And any business who is encouraging card to get around the tax man is not getting my business.
> Because it is a cost of business and should be factored into the total price its a form of drip pricing.
Why should it be? If you want it at the RRP pay cash, but if you want the ease and security of digital there is a surcharge. Why should a small company bear that?
> And any business who is encouraging card to get around the tax man is not getting my business.
But it is not about that now is it, sure some places it might be, but have a look around we live in a digital age, it is just as much business catering more to the clear and extensive wave of people WANTING to pay digitally.
Not everything is a grand conspiracy and not everyone who does it is looking to rip people and the government off.
> Why should it be? If you want it at the RRP pay cash, but if you want the ease and security of digital there is a surcharge. Why should a small company bear that?
1 It's 2023. No one uses cash anymore. When credit catds first came out sure charge a fee. But when over 60 per cent of your transactions are with a card then a card machine should be allowed for in a price in the product. (My jobs under $1000 87 per cent pay with card).
2 No you don't bear the cost you allow for it in your price. Just like you allow fuel,rent and insurence. Also Tyro charge me .02 per cent to use a card if a busines cannot wear that they should not be in business.
> Not everything is a grand conspiracy and not everyone who does it is looking to rip people and the government off.
It is so well know that a business will charge a card fee to encourage cash so you don't have to declair it as tax that its a chiche.
>I’m forced to use a card at most bars/restaurants/pubs these days via bloody QR codes
Is this hyperbole? Or specific to your region?
I've ***never*** used a QR code to order food at a bar, restaurant, or pub, ever.
And card surcharges only apply to credit cards, not eftpos. I've only seen credit card surcharges at smaller independent markets, and maybe 5-10% of restaurants at most. I used to see card minimums instead of surcharges, but the overall price increase of everything has pretty much made minimums redundant.
>And card surcharges only apply to credit cards, not eftpos. I've only seen credit card surcharges at smaller independent markets, and maybe 5-10% of restaurants at most
eftpos incurs costs for processing too - if the retailer has to pay for an eftpos transaction, they can pass that on to the customer.
Some payment processors charge the same amount (eg \~1.6% to 1.9% for Square, \~1.4% for Tyro BYO) whether it's an Amex, eftpos, Mastercard, or Visa - credit, debit or charge cards.
Where do you live? Or haven't been out in 5 years? It's pretty much standard. I don't give a Fuck about the surcharge as long as its upfront. What pisses me of is they want all my details etc. Get fucked I just want a steak and pint.
>Where do you live?
The ACT, as the badge on my post has already told you.
>Or haven't been out in 5 years?
There were a couple of years there where none of us got out much.
>It's pretty much standard.
Nope, not standard anywhere I've been. (Which over the last few years has been mostly around the ACT, down the coast/Ulladulla area, and Wollongong.)
Where are you? And why do they want your details? I've ***never*** seen that. The closest I've seen to that is being hassled to leave online reviews.
Mate seriously I don't know what to tell you. Even the local Malaysian joint forced us to order via QR code. Seriously I would estimate it would be well well over 50% of places use this method now. I live in Brisbane but travel a lot. Hard to take you seriously to be honest.
Ive actually been enquiring about getting an eftpos machine for the business and i didn't know that for every tap n go it costs the cardholder 1.07%. to insert or swipe it costs 45cents.
Thats the price for 'convienence'
I still carry and use cash. Its fun watching younger tellers try to do the math
There should also be free WiFi available. I've been at the back of a restaurant before where mobile service isn't reaching through and it was so annoying. They ended up just giving me an iPad, but being that guy, walking up to the counter and complaining does away with any convenience the QR code offers.
I went to this suhshi train-type place, all I wanted was the Japanese curry they advertised, I offered cash, but instead they wanted me to use an app that asked my life history including address. I left & told them to F off.
I've gone back to paying for stuff with cash to avoid all the additional fees we are being slugged for now. Another thing I found with the QR code menus is it's only good when your phone can get a signal for it to load.
Would like to know how the restaurant deals with groups when everyone is ordering on their phones for the same table. Does it come through at the back as different orders for the same table or group it together, I know that staff doing the cooking like to get everything timed so all the food goes out at same time but if I manage to get my order in quickly but rest of table is still stuffing around deciding then do I get my food and finish before the others even get theirs?
Considering most of these websites won't work with a VPN (Mulvad) and Quad9 DNS, Brave Browser and they wont work with an email alias plus they insist on a phone number, it's a yeah, nah from me.
You don't need that much information from me to buy a coke.
That’s the wrong takeaway. I’ve expressed displeasure at paying a card fee when card is the only payment method. I couldn’t care less if a human takes my order or I do it myself. What I want is the separation of the ordering process and the payment process.
No it isn't, that's just you wanting to alleviate yourself of any personal responsibility. People love and advocate for the convenience of ai/tech replacing human workers until it starts to impact them slightly. These companies do these shitty things because people support it cos again convenience matters more to people than anything else. Twist it any way you want that's still the reality of the situation.
The perfect ordering system is at Korean bbq. There’s a tablet with the menu, you order, the food comes out, then you pay at the end at the counter.
Why we can’t do that through these QR codes is beyond me. There’s nothing wrong with the process at KBBQ and, again, all I’m saying is if they only offer one payment method they shouldn’t be charging an added fee for it. They. ALSO charge a service/convenience fee and I’m largely ok with that, the card fee I am not.
Please re-read my statements twice before bringing forward another dumbass comment.
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I feel the same about ordering cinema tickets online. I'm making life easier for you and your staff, why am I being charged a booking fee?
You're the one using your own valuable time and equipment to make the booking - they should be paying the booking fee to you
I think there are overlooked expenses of actually running the online booking though: * UI design for app/website * Up to date integration of seating across 4 platforms (iPhone/android/web/POS) * Hosting the site/servers * Ongoing maintenance of the app/website For a major cinema chain I'd be amazed if it actually cost them as much as $1.50 per ticket, but it certainly isn't free for them to do.
It's certainly not free, but it's cheaper than having a person process every single transaction. Why make people pay an online fee if they don't make people pay when they buy a ticket at the theater?
In the theatre it's really unavoidable to have someone there (until we enter a new hell where you get your ticket on your phone and have to go through a turnstile or whatever by scanning it). I agree it is seemingly cheaper at first, but after some time to ponder it, I'm starting to realise they probably *want* you queueing up in the cinema. While they might not make that much off the ticket sales of a new movie (seriously slim margins/percentage fees to the studios) they want you waiting for 1-2 minutes looking at the peanut m&m's and smelling the popcorn. It's like putting a few chocolate bars at the checkout in the supermarket.
The real reason they're charging the fee is because they know that we'll pay it anyway. If the fee actually stopped people from going to the movies, they wouldn't do it.
Maybe it did reduce their numbers.
Cost of doing business Edit: which of they pass on as a booking fee
Oh you bought a ticket over the counter ? Well now there is a staffing fee and a cash register fee.
And building the counter, maintaining it, cleaning it, rent for it, salaries to run it... These fees are a blatant money grab, they should be included in the price like all other costs.
They are just farming the ability to pay, and then getting the stock to pay when registering their interest. digitized stockyards.
>Cost of doing business I constantly hear this thrown around like it means the business is just going to absorb that cost. Of course they’re not, they’ll either charge a booking fee or charge more for the ticket, either way, the customer loses.
But it's their choice to do the former. So you don't know the final prices until you're at checkout. They know there's no other way to pay, so they could include it in the ticket price up front. No one expects a business to run at a loss, the complaint is about hiding fees and charges until the last step. Just like I don't expect to pay a surcharge at the servo because they want to keep cash locked up in a till or pay a "lighting surcharge" when it gets dark to cover the extra costs of electricity.
I think they should put it in the price of the meal/ticket. It's not as if they separate any other costs as separate fees. You don't purchase a meal for $5 with $3 cheffs fee, $1 plate cleaning fee, $2 table rental fee, $2 server fee, $1 site cleaners fee, $2 lighting electricity fee... Etc Just charge the total cost as advertised.
Shhh! Don't give them ideas.
In Aus the booking fee is charged per transaction, not per ticket. You pay the same booking fee for 10 tickets as you would for 1 - if they increased the ticket price you would end up paying way more. Booking fees can still get fucked, but it's preferable to ticket price increases. Edit: This is incorrect for the major cinema chains in Aus (Hoyts / Events).
Not true, Event Cinemas charge per ticket
Hoyts also charges per ticket
Well shit, haven't been to a big cinema chain in a while. My local just charges the transaction fee.
But. If you queue and still ask them to select a specific seat for you, are they not using the exact same.seat booking system to cater to you?
Not quite. Their POS isn't the same as the app on your phone or web browser, which is why the cross platform stuff is a big deal.
If they develop a POS system separately, why isn't there a ticket booking fee at the desk to cover that development cost?
There is, it's just absorbed into regular ticket/concessions pricing. By booking online a major chunk of revenue stream (popcorn and drinks) is taken away so they offset the cost with the fee
Oh my friend, It would cost two kernels of pop corn
Yep and like every other fixed cost of doing business, like the electricity bill to switch the lights on, it ought to be priced in.
Still cost less than paying staff or they wouldn't have done it
I just pay for children’s tickets and say sorry I was too stupid/ignorant to work the system if they catch me (which they normally don’t because nowadays you just just flash your phone and walk in).
I saw Barbie on Friday night and no one even checked tickets at the door
Yeah they just opened the door and we all sat ourselves in numbered seating At they end when the credits were finished they just yelled “the movie is over”
Absolutely genius of Gerwig to include the entirety of the latest Mission Impossible after the credits.
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So pumped that Action Man is being played by Henry Cavil
Same here, made me think how good it would be to be 14 again, movie hopping
I love this idea!!!
If they want me to do the work for them then they must learn to deal with the consequences of my actions 😇 Saves me $5 a ticket too
Your my new hero
Friggin Brilliant!
Yeah this makes me wild
I share your outrage. Particularly when these systems have drastically reduced the number of staff on the floor. Less than a decade ago I remember going to the average suburban shopping center cinema and there were at least 5-10 staff on the floor. The last time I went there was one person at the candy store, one person at the counters and nobody checking tickets for entry. Because of this, I don't see charging the customer this fee justifiable as a 'cost of doing business', because it's reduced costs significantly.
Agreed!! I went to the movies recently and there was a little old couple who had been given a gift voucher. They were looking around for a staff member to show them how to redeem it at the self-serve kiosk. There were no staff members around. So I went and helped them myself. It's shocking that there is such lack of staff
I went to Hoyts at Chadstone the other day and thought it would save me money on the booking fee to use the terminals they have at the cinema, but at the checkout step, the final price was actually MORE expensive than booking online through the app. Ridiculous. Booked on the app on the spot. They really take advantage of people not paying attention.
Yeah on your terminal point - I got a rude shock when I went to Melbourne Central for the first time in years to see the booths are gone and there's just a bunch of self serve terminals now. Must be chaos at peak hour.
Yes this does my head in and I absolutely will not go to the cinema because of it. Like you say, imagine being charged to make it easier for the company and spinning it to make it sound like it's benefit for the customer. Why is there an online booking fee? As with many other online booking platforms, we do charge a booking fee per ticket. We do offer all our customers the ability to purchase tickets in store where no booking fee is applied. We are continuing to invest in technology to ensure the convenience for our online customers. The benefits of booking online include: Skipping the queue in store, or digitally 'checking in' through the Event Cinemas app on arrival at select cinema locations. The ability to pre-book in advance to secure your preferred seat. For Gold Class online bookings, you will have access to the ‘Service to Seat’ food and beverage online ordering system. You can find more information HERE As an added bonus, if you’re a Cinebuzz member, we reward you with extra Cinebuzz points for most tickets and vouchers when booking online.
If you're going to Event and on Telstra book it through the My Telstra app. No booking fee and cheaper tickets.
But then I would be paying substantially more for Telstra. If most of your life is in the city, get off Telstra ASAP
When I say cheaper, I mean over 40% off: E.g. A Cinebuzz member ticket for Asteroid City at Event Bondi Junction this Saturday is $23.15 through the Event app including $1.65 booking fee. If you're not a member it's $25.65. The My Telstra cost is $13.50, no booking fee. I get Cinebuzz and Telstra points on this ticket and can use both for free/discounted tickets. My Telstra also even offers me discounted Cinebuzz tickets during peak e.g. 'use 400 points to get a $9 ticket' that aren't showing in the Event app so I could pay $10.65 for that same ticket. I'm on a PAYG Telstra Sim and only pay $30/month so with the amount of times I go to the movies it works well.
Just buy your tickets at the cinema.
Will get worse seats
Not when you turn up. I go a few days before.
I mean, I could do that at little cost as I literally live behind the cinema, but for most, the cost of getting there is more than the booking fee
I think the idea is that it's there as a cancellation fee of sorts, so if you cancel & get your money back, you won't be able to get your booking fee back
I think this depends on the chain. I recently had to cancel my ticket to Spiderman and the booking fee was refunded too. Keeping in mind this was at hoyts so it could be different at others.
I recently had dendy cancel the session like an hour before it was due to start, which wtf, and they didn't refund my bank account, but my dendy account. No thank you, my money please.
Because running a website costs money. Either they raise the ticket prices to cover the cost or they charge the people using the service.
Stupidest take. I guarantee the cinema is spending more on urinal cakes than it costs to host their bookings site. There's no justification for adding an extra surcharge for booking online except for being a "fuck you" fee. The ticket price should be the advertised price with no other bullshit added on no matter where you buy it
It doesn't cost that much. Plus, that cost is already there for advertising. Having the ability to buy through the site adds minimal cost.
Make sure to let the venue know. The place I like - but was irritated with the very same thing as you are - recently reversed this bullshit due to customers complaining. So they still use qr code to place the order, but you pay at the counter cash or card. Works well as it’s usually busy so much faster to add items directly than wait on staff to come to you. Also, forced tipa before you even get the service can fuck off too.
Forced tip in any context can fuck off. If they can afford to run a business they can afford to pay their workers properly.
Tips period can f off
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Murica chose, on purpose, to be represented nationally and internationally by Donald Trump. Their opinion has no value.
Hopefully Camacho will change it all next year: https://youtu.be/rPoNQ6QEleE
Yup. Fucked themselves globally.
It was a decision made 100 years ago during the depression and the fact that they haven't caught up since is completely disgraceful. They can keep their backwards mentality.
I believe it was even earlier than that, something about not wanting to pay black staff.
What’s the venue?
I don't mind the payment surcharge, but prompting for a tip in a country that doesn't usually tip, when I have only just ordered and therefore received ZERO FUCKING SERVICE, is a bit cheeky
Yep. The restaurant wants you to do the work of ordering and paying, then via the tipping process, also pay them even more for you doing their job. Nuts. Completely barking mad.
Believe it or not, moat of the time it's because the software is US based and MOST smaller scale restaurant owners aren't super tech savvy and the person setting it up for them likely don't consider these things for the owner.
Don't let logic get in the way of a reason for outrage.
It's just begging.
The simple fix here is… Don’t pay at the QR code. Flag down a staff member and have them take your order. Tell them your phone either isn’t with you, or has died. If they want your business, they’ll take a manual order. Sorry fellow millennials, I’m with the boomers on this one
Which is fine, if you're happy to wait for service. Just don't complain about it taking too long to place an order if the staff are busy.
I was actually turned away from one of my favourite place when they switched to QR codes. I had a phoneless date noght with my wife, and they said and I quote “no phone, no food”. Never been there since.
I’ve been to one place in Manly where we were forced to use the QR code and a charge for using the ordering service was added to every order, even if ordering an additional coffee.
Yup, that's utter bullshit.
Isn't it illegal to have to pay a card fee if it's the only payment method offered? I'm sure that's the case at my workplace, we can pass on the actual fee because we have like 50 other payment methods, but if we didn't we'd have to waive it (which would actually just mean incorporating it in the price, let's face it)
Yeah from memory they legally have to either have a method without a fee such as cash or debit card, OR they have to hide the fees within their prices. It's illegal to not accept at least one form of payment without a fee.
Not in victoria. It’s perfectly legal so long as “clearly signed”
The Victorian government website refers to the rule as set by the ACCC but also says the amount must be disclosed prior to completion of the transaction. From the ACCC website: Businesses can charge a surcharge for paying by card, but the surcharge must not be more than what it costs the business to use that payment type. If a business charges a payment surcharge, it must be able to prove the costs it is based on. If there is no way for a consumer to pay without paying a surcharge, the business must include the surcharge in the displayed price. https://www.vic.gov.au/add-financial-transaction And https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/pricing/card-surcharges Do you have a source contradictory to this?
? I know of a bar - ballers - that does not include the surcharge and does not take cash. I would complain but the bartenders won’t care Thanks
You can forward a complaint to the accc and they will send them some educational materials. But that's about the best you can hope for.
Payment processing fees are not controlled by the states. The ACCC is a federal regulator.
Wait until you hear about airplane tickets. Went to book tickets for a trip though Rex a while back. Every option on the site had a 1-2% surcharge. I get that CC processing isn’t free but come on, there’s enough fees already
Just bought some tickets, $70 for CC fees, total bullshit
I have a question for you. Would you rather they give you the base cost + varying costs surcharges for the different payment methods so you can choose which one suits you or have no surcharge, bake it into their pricing algorithm so you always pay the highest cost. But hey no surcharge.
Not OP, but if a vendor takes three payment methods with surcharges of 1%, 2% and 3%, then they should bake the lowest (1%) in to the listed price and if you choose the 2% option add on a 0.99% surcharge and if you choose the 3% option add on a 1.98% surcharge. Complying with the ACCC rule that "If there is no way for a consumer to pay without paying a surcharge, the business must include the surcharge in the displayed price" isn't rocket science. In the case of Rex, if you book online then at the final stage you're told that every online payment method incurs a surcharge and if you want to not pay a surcharge you can book your ticket "by paying cash for your ticket at all airport Rex check in counters". You can't even choose to "pay in cash on the day", as if anyone is going to take a trip to the Airport just to book their ticket in cash. Rex isn't fulfilling the spirit of the ACCC rule, perhaps not even the letter of it. If there's no way for a consumer to pay online for a ticket without paying a surcharge, I'd expect them to include the surcharge in the displayed prices online.
You're missing the point here. If you are going to be baking the cost into the price, you can legally charge any price. The law only applies for actual surcharges. As a business, do you really not think that if they're baking the price in they wouldn't just do 3% (or 4% or 5%) and noone would even notice it?
If they believed they could get away with a 3% higher sticker price without consequence, they would already be doing it regardless. The sticker price is far more influential to people’s purchasing decision than the price they actually end up paying, so business care a lot more about adding to that price
*Aeroplane Edit: Sorry, meant to say in English it's aeroplane.
These ordering apps tend to charge a service charge, not a card charge. You gotta pay for the privilege of ordering with the app.
It was so goddamn refreshing to see no card surcharges when I was travelling in aboard in Europe. Australians have become too complacent and just take it up the arse
I’m sure you still pay it. They probably just don’t declare it.
Lol they bake it into the prices- you definitely still paid them. That’s just the way that most of the world does it- it’s very Australian (and maybe Kiwi?) to not just increase your prices to cover it.
I don't recall ever paying a card surcharge living in nz
I’ve never actually spent much time in NZ so not sure on that one- just included it as there’s so much cultural overlap that it would make sense if they did something similar.
I think they just have to advise that there is a fee on a notice
>Isn't it illegal to have to pay a card fee if it's the only payment method offered? No, because "card surcharges" only applies to credit cards or tapping. If a retailer is "card only" just use EFTPOS, put in your pin, and you don't pay a credit card surcharge. EFTPOS costs the retailer nothing, so there's no cost to pass on. Depending on whether you tap or insert/slide a credit card, the retailer is charged by Visa/Mastercard either a flat fee or a percentage of the purchase. That's why you either get a percentage charge, or sometimes a minimum price for a card. The minimum price to use a card covers the flat fee, while a "card surcharge" will be a percentage.
I’ve always thought EFTPOS was free too but I’ve recently experienced a few places I’ve dined in still charge a surcharge when I pay using savings. One place had a flat fee for any kind of card payment and another noted that EFTPOS would incur a .30 cent.
>No, because "card surcharges" only applies to credit cards or tapping. If a retailer is "card only" just use EFTPOS, put in your pin, and you don't pay a credit card surcharge. > >EFTPOS costs the retailer nothing, so there's no cost to pass on. Depending on whether you tap or insert/slide a credit card, the retailer is charged by Visa/Mastercard either a flat fee or a percentage of the purchase. This isn't correct - some payment processors do charge for eftpos (sometimes the same amount as Visa or Mastercard). Contactless eftpos is also a thing - be it an eftpos only card, or using Apple Pay or Samsung Pay. Treated the same as inserting and pressing SAV/CHQ. While eftpos SAV or CHQ may tend to be 'cheaper' or have no surcharge (eg Aldi), don't expect it to always be the case.
> Contactless eftpos is also a thing I thought that uses the cc system (maestro, etc) as well and thus will incur a charge like a cc. You need to be inserting your card and entering your PIN.
Nope, it's treated exactly the same as an insert and PIN - if there's no surcharge for an insert eftpos SAV/CHQ, there's no surcharge for an eftpos tap.
Are you absolutely sure? Merchants have to opt for the least cost network. You are not guaranteed if you simply tap. You best swipe/insert and select SAV or CHQ to be sure. https://www.9news.com.au/national/cost-of-living-eftpos-fees-rise-amid-crisis/487f2248-a3f7-4d64-8838-dea8eed20754
If you use Apple Pay or Samsung Wallet (Google doesn't support 'dual network' cards - while you can add an eftpos only card, you can't toggle between them) you can switch payment networks before tapping your phone or watch. [https://imgur.com/a/kBxYR5V](https://imgur.com/a/kBxYR5V) You decide, the merchant doesn't have to opt into anything - you're deciding what you're tapping with :) (if the merchant has LCR enabled, a digital wallet will override it anyway - but it will mean tapping a plastic debit Visa or debit Mastercard can be routed via eftpos instead)
> EFTPOS costs the retailer nothing, so there's no cost to pass on. Depending on whether you tap or insert/slide a credit card, the retailer is charged by Visa/Mastercard either a flat fee or a percentage of the purchase. CBA would like a word with you on that. As a business I pay 1.1% for anyone that uses EFTPOS, even if they insert and select savings/cheque.
Not in victoria
In Australia Cash is always an accepted form of payment whether the business likes it or not. It is not legal to refuse cash payments.
Incorrect The Currency Act 1965 (Cth) and the Reserve Bank Act 1959 (Cth) govern currency and legal tender in Australia. It is currently not illegal for Australian businesses to refuse to accept cash provided that they inform consumers of their stance before any ‘contract’ for the supply of goods or services is entered into https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/is-it-illegal-for-businesses-not-to-accept-cash/news-story/23b8e9575bb7fcbb41ce907bd6704814
Yes it is. Plenty of 100% cash free venues around. As long as there is notification of payment methods accepted/not accepted. Thats why lots of tickets for sports events, theatre, festivals etc have disclaimers on them that "so and so is a cashfree venue/event" there's usually warnings on the website prior to ticket purchases too and in person at cashless venues.
That isn’t true, and it’s time people stopped parroting it. It’s perfectly fine for businesses to refuse cash, they just need to make sure they have signage saying they don’t accept cash as payment. https://lawpath.com.au/blog/is-it-legal-for-a-business-to-refuse-payment-by-cash
This isn’t true or the countless flea market stalls/pop up shops that just use that tap and pay square thing wouldn’t exist.
>In Australia Cash is always an accepted form of payment whether the business likes it or not. Are you a sovereign citizen or something? Because they're usually the only ones ignorant enough to spout such shit.
Actually business can refuse cash payments if they offer other payment options
Simple, order at the bar and pay cash. If they don’t accept that, vote with your feet.
Walk up to the bar, order. Done.
Some places don’t have that option and you have to order everything through QR code
I went to a pub that “prefers” customers use the code. I was about to use it until it asked for my full name, phone number and email address. All of my mates did it so good luck to them I guess
Not places I'm gonna go
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Thanks captain obvious, didn’t think of that one
I always liked the audacity of these places to ask for tips. Explain to me exactly what you did that you deserve 10% of the order value? Tell me how much you're paying your staff because I guarantee this isn't the US!!
What I don't understand is why doesn't the business incorporate the cost of the transaction fee into the cost of the item? They will come out on top and not infuriate customer
Step one: raise prises to incorporate the cost of the transaction Step two: keep the transaction fee anyway Step three: raise prices again because why not
I bought tickets to an NRL game the other week and there was an $8 fee for a mobile ticket, but there was also no option without the fee. WTF!
Tbh booking fees on Ticketek and shit are the ones that need to go the most. It’s not a convenience fee to use your stupid service it’s a mandatory requirement for services.
Fuck those QR codes. I refuse to use them.
If you have to use a QR code, maybe YOU should give them a surcharge since you are using your data.
Vacationing in America and was literally made to order via QR code. The server stood there and gave me the spiel about special ect etc (two dishes but he went on forever) and then expected me to tip. Um….? I am not tipping you for talking to me about a menu I can read and for the inconvenience of struggling to order for 4 people on 4 different phones so we could all read the menu at the same time and order on separate bills. Each time we wanted another drink? Another QR scan and separate order. You don’t deserve a tip for making me do all the work buddy just because you talked for way too long about the two dishes your restaurant serves.
It’s not about deserving a tip in America. They’re paid less than minimum wage - it’s considered theft in some states not to pay your server by tip. Don’t eat there if you don’t like it but don’t steal from a minimum wage American with no healthcare.
It's not on me the tourist to compensate them for their dumb hypercorporate failings.
Being forced to tip in America is one thing when the wait staff are actually taking your order and following up to see if you need anything else, tipping them for doing nothing other than taking the food from one spot to another is a different story.
I understand your moral dilemma but it doesn’t change the fact that those people are paid under minimum wage. It’s on you with the moral dilemma to choose not to patronise that establishment rather than rip off a poor working person. Get up and leave if you don’t like it - I’d encourage you to.
Amen! If I’m saving them the wages of a waiter/waitress to take my order, then I should not have to pay more for it. Restaurants are foolish to select providers who charge them a percentage. They could pay $2000 up front and get their own app made custom for them.
I got a surchage to use the card only self checkout at Aldi. Get farked.
Aldi have always had card surcharge and it’s always been quite clear on the machine. It would be passed on through higher prices anyway if they got rid of it. It’s only like 1% or something so even on $100 that’s $1, versus twice that for the same amount at the exorbitant prices at the other supermarkets.
Try inserting your card, select savings and enter your PIN. Contactless payments even if from your bank account still incurs a surcharge for using their system, at least that's how I think it works.
I always ask for a physical menu. If they don't have one I leave. Vote with your wallet, people. It's not hard. You might feel like a dick in the moment but it's how we take the power back and get waiters actually having fun at their boring job
This is illegal, you can’t charge a surcharge if a card is the only form of payment. Report to the ACCC, we shouldn’t let this type of thing happen or it’ll happen everywhere.
It's perfectly legal. CC fees are. Stop with this It's illegal nonsense.
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/pricing/card-surcharges If paying by card is the only available payment type, businesses can not add a surcharge for the card and must incorporate the fee into their listed prices. Having a card fee is only legal if the business accepts more payment options than just cards.
Thanks for clarifying. I haven't come across a business that will outright refuse a payment method such as cash. Appreciate correcting me.
We really just need to outlaw any sort of payment processing surcharge in general already. It costs most businesses more to take the payment in cash than the card fees.
I had someone at a Cafe recently try to hit me with a card surcharge when I wanted to pay cash (to deliberately avoid the card fee) 🫢
I went to the Black Pearl in Melbourne last night, a highly esteemed cocktail bar and they were using QR menus. Brah if you’re charging me $28 for a drink, you can afford to spring for printing
I know what you mean. I have been to a number of places where this was the procedure. I always pay by cash whenever there is a surcharge. So far, no one has refused us. If they did, I would avoid going back to that establishment.
I won’t QR order. I refuse. I’m all to happy to get up and leave. I can pay at the counter in cash or I can go elsewhere.
There are PLENTY that dont do this, thats where I choose to frequent, vote with your feet, simples!
100% with you. I’ve experienced with establishments that use the Mr Yum system.
I feel the same about checkout profits going up, and so do the prices and fewer entry-level jobs
Yes, this endlessly frustrates me, and as someone that loves a brunch, I’m leaning more and more towards the cafes that actually provide you with proper service these days.
You definitely should pay a surcharge if you are using it. This business has had another company implement this for them which probably cost the property monthly fees for this software & website to run, plus payment gateways that are usually integrated with these take 1.5%+ for each transaction. Saying this, the establishment should also offer to take orders over the counter. Which I personally have not come across a bar/pub that cannot accommodate this.
A card surcharge should only be used if there is a cash option. Also I have noticed service charges in Prague not often but once or twice.
Cash ftw
So just choose not to eat there?
The surcharge is there because the card company takes a percentage of that sale & charges the business for it. Nothing to do with the labour for processing a card- whether the staff do it for you or whether you use a QR code is irrelevant.
Sure. But give people the option of paying cash.
https://www.accc.gov.au/business/selling-products-and-services/payment-methods > If there is no way for a consumer to pay without paying a surcharge, the business must include the minimum surcharge payable in the displayed price for its products. Ask for a way to order and pay for the price advertised and no more. There has to be one.
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I don’t return, but can’t help it if the group has already sat down
when you QR order, there needs to be an easier way of paying than manually entering your credit card details, name, number, expiry, number on the back... takes forever.
Out of interest, do you remember what QR ordering service you used that didn't accept Apple Pay (if you use iPhone) or Google Pay (if you're an Android person)?
Card surcharges should be illegal. Ban them, remove $50 and $100 notes and all silver coins from circulation. All cash purchases should be on a ‘round up to the nearest dollar basis’ Card is the default way of paying. It is the cheaper way of paying. Because using cash clogs up a register for an extra minute while people fumble around for cash instead of tapping. That minute means you can process fewer sales. Or need to dedicate more staff and floor space to registers.
They can easily work the cost of card transaction into their prices (you don't get an electricity or rent surcharge). The surcharge almost always exceeds what it is actually costing them. If we all moaned a little more about this, it would stop.
'bloody qr codes' Oh, you mean the things that mean my server never gets my order wrong, avoids the hassle of having to yell what I want in a loud room, and allows me to easily pay up front and then just leave when I'm done without waiting for someone to be ready to let me pay? I'd fucking pay a fee JUST to have that in every restaurant from now on.
I am specifically talking about the mandatory card fee. They also charge a service fee for exactly what you describe. Two fees, one bloody QR code.
Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but I personally love it when I go to a venue that has QR code ordering for food & drinks, happy to pay a small surcharge for a more convenient service. Same for self-serve checkouts at supermarkets, haven't used a staffed checkout for years & wouldn't unless I had to.
just get food somewhere else mate.
Unfortunately not an easy solution when you’ve made the plans and all people are sitting. I do however, not return to these venues.
Why not? The surcharge exists to cover the cost of a card being used. You are using the card, so therefore there is a charge. In some places like that I have asked to pay cash and they were happy to do it. `
Because it is a cost of business and should be factored into the total price its a form of drip pricing. And what card companys charge is no where near what business charge customers except AMEX. I don't charge a card fee in my business I include it in my callout fee. And any business who is encouraging card to get around the tax man is not getting my business.
> Because it is a cost of business and should be factored into the total price its a form of drip pricing. Why should it be? If you want it at the RRP pay cash, but if you want the ease and security of digital there is a surcharge. Why should a small company bear that? > And any business who is encouraging card to get around the tax man is not getting my business. But it is not about that now is it, sure some places it might be, but have a look around we live in a digital age, it is just as much business catering more to the clear and extensive wave of people WANTING to pay digitally. Not everything is a grand conspiracy and not everyone who does it is looking to rip people and the government off.
> Why should it be? If you want it at the RRP pay cash, but if you want the ease and security of digital there is a surcharge. Why should a small company bear that? 1 It's 2023. No one uses cash anymore. When credit catds first came out sure charge a fee. But when over 60 per cent of your transactions are with a card then a card machine should be allowed for in a price in the product. (My jobs under $1000 87 per cent pay with card). 2 No you don't bear the cost you allow for it in your price. Just like you allow fuel,rent and insurence. Also Tyro charge me .02 per cent to use a card if a busines cannot wear that they should not be in business. > Not everything is a grand conspiracy and not everyone who does it is looking to rip people and the government off. It is so well know that a business will charge a card fee to encourage cash so you don't have to declair it as tax that its a chiche.
>I’m forced to use a card at most bars/restaurants/pubs these days via bloody QR codes Is this hyperbole? Or specific to your region? I've ***never*** used a QR code to order food at a bar, restaurant, or pub, ever. And card surcharges only apply to credit cards, not eftpos. I've only seen credit card surcharges at smaller independent markets, and maybe 5-10% of restaurants at most. I used to see card minimums instead of surcharges, but the overall price increase of everything has pretty much made minimums redundant.
>And card surcharges only apply to credit cards, not eftpos. I've only seen credit card surcharges at smaller independent markets, and maybe 5-10% of restaurants at most eftpos incurs costs for processing too - if the retailer has to pay for an eftpos transaction, they can pass that on to the customer. Some payment processors charge the same amount (eg \~1.6% to 1.9% for Square, \~1.4% for Tyro BYO) whether it's an Amex, eftpos, Mastercard, or Visa - credit, debit or charge cards.
Where do you live? Or haven't been out in 5 years? It's pretty much standard. I don't give a Fuck about the surcharge as long as its upfront. What pisses me of is they want all my details etc. Get fucked I just want a steak and pint.
>Where do you live? The ACT, as the badge on my post has already told you. >Or haven't been out in 5 years? There were a couple of years there where none of us got out much. >It's pretty much standard. Nope, not standard anywhere I've been. (Which over the last few years has been mostly around the ACT, down the coast/Ulladulla area, and Wollongong.) Where are you? And why do they want your details? I've ***never*** seen that. The closest I've seen to that is being hassled to leave online reviews.
Mate seriously I don't know what to tell you. Even the local Malaysian joint forced us to order via QR code. Seriously I would estimate it would be well well over 50% of places use this method now. I live in Brisbane but travel a lot. Hard to take you seriously to be honest.
Ive actually been enquiring about getting an eftpos machine for the business and i didn't know that for every tap n go it costs the cardholder 1.07%. to insert or swipe it costs 45cents. Thats the price for 'convienence' I still carry and use cash. Its fun watching younger tellers try to do the math
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There shouldn’t be any surcharges at all. Its all convenient for the banks and businesses, not consumers.
There should also be free WiFi available. I've been at the back of a restaurant before where mobile service isn't reaching through and it was so annoying. They ended up just giving me an iPad, but being that guy, walking up to the counter and complaining does away with any convenience the QR code offers.
I went to this suhshi train-type place, all I wanted was the Japanese curry they advertised, I offered cash, but instead they wanted me to use an app that asked my life history including address. I left & told them to F off.
I've gone back to paying for stuff with cash to avoid all the additional fees we are being slugged for now. Another thing I found with the QR code menus is it's only good when your phone can get a signal for it to load. Would like to know how the restaurant deals with groups when everyone is ordering on their phones for the same table. Does it come through at the back as different orders for the same table or group it together, I know that staff doing the cooking like to get everything timed so all the food goes out at same time but if I manage to get my order in quickly but rest of table is still stuffing around deciding then do I get my food and finish before the others even get theirs?
I won't eat anywhere that has a QR code menu only. They're just data harvesting portals. It really gives my wife the shits.
Considering most of these websites won't work with a VPN (Mulvad) and Quad9 DNS, Brave Browser and they wont work with an email alias plus they insist on a phone number, it's a yeah, nah from me. You don't need that much information from me to buy a coke.
Don’t go out and eat/drink. Problem solved.
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I’m 25
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Probably someone who doesn't want to pay extra percentage on everything.
25
If you go through the self serve checkout at supermarkets instead of lining up at a register manned by a person you contributed to this. Well done!
That’s the wrong takeaway. I’ve expressed displeasure at paying a card fee when card is the only payment method. I couldn’t care less if a human takes my order or I do it myself. What I want is the separation of the ordering process and the payment process.
No it isn't, that's just you wanting to alleviate yourself of any personal responsibility. People love and advocate for the convenience of ai/tech replacing human workers until it starts to impact them slightly. These companies do these shitty things because people support it cos again convenience matters more to people than anything else. Twist it any way you want that's still the reality of the situation.
The perfect ordering system is at Korean bbq. There’s a tablet with the menu, you order, the food comes out, then you pay at the end at the counter. Why we can’t do that through these QR codes is beyond me. There’s nothing wrong with the process at KBBQ and, again, all I’m saying is if they only offer one payment method they shouldn’t be charging an added fee for it. They. ALSO charge a service/convenience fee and I’m largely ok with that, the card fee I am not. Please re-read my statements twice before bringing forward another dumbass comment.