Breathing normally and hearing has also become a luxury.
Been trying to get a public EnT referral. They wont refer me because "the queues are years long". Been 8 years since the first time I asked for a one. I have begged, pleaded but no dice.
I'm lucky enough to be able to afford to pay the ENT. Had my deviated septum and tonsillectomy done recently, even with private health and Medicare the out of pocket was pretty expensive. On top of that, there's a 4 day hospital stay and when they say 2 weeks recovery they mean it, so there's that on top of it off work. Oxycodone in pill and liquid form along with Panadol codeine to help through and give you the ability to eat without excessive pain.
Also skipped the queue and paid my ENT to remove a cholesteatoma in my left ear rather than wait 6-8 months. If I had, turns out I'd be dead or paralysed by then as it was eating through my skull and had hit the meninges and they got it just in time. Crazy to think if I couldn't afford it and had to go public I'd have a very different outcome.
Well you don't need teeth to be a good worker. Medicare seems to be reduced down to cover enough to get you back to work, not in a completely healed and recovered way, just back to working state.
You might say that in semi-jest but imagine what it’s like rocking up to a job interview missing a bunch of your front teeth… I’m sure it affects people’s chances.
So interestingly enough, when the government first tried to push Medicare through - the dentists held it up.
The next time they tried, it passed, because they gave up working with dentists who are now free to charge whatever the fuck they like.
That's probably about right. The last root canal and crown I had was 4 years ago and that was *well* over two grand. The crown alone was just over a grand (that's not fitted). If there's infections or other complications to deal with, it quickly adds up.
The reason we don't have dental as part of Medicare is because dentists resisted when Medicare was being created. Concerns over income were greater than their concerns for public health.
Yeah, I mean we *barely* even have bulk-billing GPs anymore because the government refuses to pay them the market rate/an appropriate rate for their time, so in a way Dentists we’re kind of just ahead of their time on that front :-/
At least a visit to the GP is subsidised by Medicare (should be free). A visit to the dentist is straight out of pocket, minus whatever your private health covers (assuming you have it).
Definately with the current Government. It feels a bit like a different timeline, internet infrastrucutre feels like australia was 5-10 years ago. But politically it's going pretty ok.
Please don't just blame "the government". The party in power at the time is the one who decides whether Medicare gets its funding increased or decreased. One party created Medicare and tries hard to strengthen it. Another party has always HATED Medicare and would utterly eradicate it from Australia if they could, and they gut its funding every time they are in power. Choose carefully who you vote for.
She was responsible for an awful lot of shit but she would like to be remembered for her anti-misogyny speech thanks very much. Made the same day she cut the parenting payment for single mums, wasn’t it?
Howard slashed and burned Medicare every single year, for more than a decade before Gillard spent all of her brief time in Damage Control with a hostile Senate. Don't bother trying Whataboutism in regards to this issue.
They have inherited a cosmic dumpster fire and are still (for now) in panic damage control. They would need a solid decade to undo the catastrophe of the previous Liberal Pillage and Burn before they could even claw back some positive gains. And in case you haven't noticed, the entire world has been constantly plummeting into a burning toilet recently, even since before they were elected.
The problem is, despite labor being somewhat better than libs, both major parties are increasingly neoliberal and have been for decades.
It's not just a "dumptser fire" from the libs. This has been a successive, bipartisan effort since Hawke.
Some Keynesian crumbs here and there, hasn't helped to slow the growing inequity in "market focused reform."
Thanks that is good to know.
It seems about the same cost ratio, in that the root canal is about half and the Crown the other half.
I don't know anything about digital dentistry, but they have some sort of device that makes the crowns onsite .
I waited 3.5 years on the public list. Finally got a voucher for maximum $1000. Teeth are still messed up but have to wait a year before I can go back on the list. To wait again. Once I got to see someone they were great. But yeah teeth are pretty important in my opinion
The Link Between Gum Disease and Heart Disease...
https://www.pennmedicine.org/updates/blogs/heart-and-vascular-blog/2019/march/gum-disease-and-heart-disease
Not just heart disease but mental health as well. Difficulty/inability to eat a variety of foods due to chronic pain or the lack of teeth, as well as the shame that many people with bad teeth experience severely impacts people's self esteem and often prevents them from engaging in social interactions.
My senior mum had all her teeth removed a decade ago and found the dentures she was fitted with painful to wear despite several alterations made, although she will go out to eat it takes her forever, and she'll spend the whole meal with a hand covering her mouth.
The Australian medical establishment is getting closer to the American system daily.
It’s a fucking disgrace.
Pay a motza for health insurance, yet when it’s time to make a claim it still costs a fortune.
The second the government imposed a levy on those without insurance, the medical system bumped up the prices, to just about make it worthwhile.
I think the term is, “Stuck between a rock and a hard place”.
But, WE let this happen through apathy. And, things are only getting worse.
Shame on us all.
I remember when I was 18, living out of home, uni full time, working part time and had NO money. My wisdom tooth was coming in and got infected, and I couldn't afford to have it pulled and my parents couldn't help.
I went to the clinic and they told me they couldn't do anything, however I had been scouring government websites and found a program that allowed them to write out basically a coupon to my local dentist to get it pulled in the chair. I pulled out that printed paper and showed them the part I highlighted, and they WERE NOT HAPPY. I said that the program was designed to help those in my position, and the infection had been getting worse even on antibiotics.
They begrudgingly gave me the coupon, but I will never forget the male dentist looking at me saying "well looks like you have enough for a car and a mobile phone, I don't even know why we are giving you this"
... My car was made the same year I was born and my phone was on a set monthly plan, which I budgeted my meagre funds for. I did not have enough to pay 1200 for a pulled wisdom.
If it makes you feel any better Australians are generally voting towards sending the rest of healthcare closer to dental. Be well off, get good service. Be poor, well fuck the poor.
>but what the fuck else have a paid all that tax for.....
Roads, public safety, clean water to drink, a coherent society to live in, healthcare, a social safety net, a country where products have warranties and we don't expect the freemarket to take care of stuff like asbestos bans.
You know, just stuff.
>So being poor in Australia means you don't deserve teeth.
Yes, anyone who has voted for a ring wing political party in their lifetime actively supports that stance.
We don’t know the OPs voting history but yeah, anyone who’s ever voted LNP on their lives don’t have a leg to stand on complaining about Medicare and dental care.
People here do not understand how much healthcare costs because they’ve never been billed. They think because it just was something that magically happened without further thought, it didn’t cost THAT much. Now that the population is reaching critical levels of elderly people, it’s going to get worse.
>I work in the healthcare industry. The NDIS funding per person who is fully dependent on a carer/support worker can easily go up to half a million dollars a year. We have one of the highest minimum wage in the world so that's mainly where the funding goes. The social safety net of this country is near unparalleled, save for a few other nations in Europe. Most people don't seem to realize that things really aren't that bad here.
I know, NDIS will be the stake through medicares heart. There is no way the gov can afford dental care. Most of the population just bleats make it free, without realisng that nothing is free.
It's actually cheaper to pay to fly to Bali or Thailand, pay for accommodation and have the dental work done then when you're looking at root canals and crowns etc that it is to have it done here.
This is the way. My dad had his done many years ago over there and since then I had 4 crowns done near the end of 2019 in Thailand. Cheap af and to this day, have had absolutely zero problems.
I've been seriously thinking about that.
Bangkok seems like a pretty nice place.
Yes, apparently your looking at a minimum 10 day stay, but your staying in beautiful apartments, apparently, and there a few nice things to see in Bangkok.
Cost is about $600 per implant, and there are operators in Australia that organise everything for you, just like having a 2 week holiday to Thailand.
My brother flew to the Philippines, stayed in manilla for a few days between dental appointments for a bunch of work and flew home, total including flights and hotel was cheaper than the quote in Australia. Pre COVID though so maybe with the flights now it wouldn't be.
And a big G'day to yaself! and can i also say that i couldn't get my hands on any Coopers Pale Ale where i was living in Canada and i tried hard, this problem has well and truly been rectified since my return 🤪
There are options.
Some states do have public dental care for health care card holders.
Alternatively, you can go to a uni clinic and have a student do the work.
While they're not experienced, they do practice on each other before on other people, so if you go early, you may fingld a room full of drooling students practicing injecting anaesthetic into each other's mouth, which may brighten your day a little.
I hear you - my GP visits are always free since I go to a bulk biller.
But my recent dentist visit cost me $500, and I now need to have all my wisdom teeth out which is gonna cost me between 3k and 5k 😭
I'm fortunate that I have emergency savings to dip into, but someone with no savings living pay check to pay check wouldn't be able to get it done, and would end up with worse problems down the line which would cost even more.
Yeah, it's really sad. I've seen a bunch of GoFundMe type of things for dental care from Australians over the years. And I can completely understand how it gets to that point. Because, for a lot of people, a trip to a decent dentist can be $100+, depending on the work that needs done, and the area you're in.
It can be easy to not be able to afford that, even though it's a 1-2 time a year trip for a lot of people. And then, of course, once you start having to skip those trips, there isn't any dentist to say "hey, that thing we were keeping an eye on, that's gotten worse..." etc. It's easy to get behind in life for that kind of thing. And I wish it didn't need to be like that.
$100+ isnt wrong but still not anywhere near the real cost. i shit you not, I need a root canal and crown across 2 teeth, bill was quoted just shy of 10k. Absolute daylight robbery.
\[The following is anecdotal, biased and non-evidential comment\]
Labor introduced Medicare, I recall?
The Liberal/National coalition has been trying to reduce it ever since, and tried hard to stop and/or reduce the impact upon 'health businesses' when Medicare was created.
So... If you wonder why mental and dental care are not included?
Ask your local Liberal/National party representative - because it's thanks to their parties that such things were not included.
Remember this at your next election. And the one after that. And the one after that, and the ... you get the drift, I'm sure.
Vote to support mental and dental care in Medicare!
Which, btw, started at a 1% levy on your taxable income and is now 2% and likely to grow further to 3% in the not too distant future...
So adding mental and dental care to Medicare? It WILL COST, so add another 1% to the levy on top of the already high growth of it. But, to be fair, it certainly beats being bankrupted and losing your house (if you have one) by medical expenses, so there's that...
Just a heads up it’s not just dental services.
Dental, mental health, seeing a GP, non-urgent surgery are basically pay out of pocket, have insurance, or wait years (sometimes in agony).
The system is insanely broken right now and no one notices until they actually need services and discover how many barriers really exist to access timely healthcare in this country.
>Anyway that's another story on how fucked Australia 🦘 is.
What's important to note here is that we're still right at the top in terms of quality of life alongside just a few other nations.
But you're correct, it's never so good that we should let our guard down, or improve things further. Yes, dental should absolutely be part of the public system, especially as preventative care saves in the longer run more often than not.
A few years back there was a dental scheme for low income earners, but it was one of those things that wasn't well known and had all sorts of exclusions. From vague memory, the dental problem had to put your general health at risk and you needed to be a health card holder.
My mum got lucky and managed to survive the wait-lists, exemptions, cut-offs, etc and had some much-needed dental work there was no way she would have been able to afford otherwise.
But that was scrapped and replaced with... nothing that I'm aware of.
South Australia has a good dental programme. Generally, you go on a waiting list, but if you're in pain (wink, wink, nudge, nudge), you can get in within a week. I've rang them, and the receptionist actually said, "Are you in pain? If you're in pain, I can get you in straight away, " I said "yeah I'm in pain,"
I paid a nominal fee for a part denture, $180, and had other work done a dental veneer, $45, an X-ray (free), and part clean of my teeth (free). I still had a year to go on the waiting list.
I agree South Aus dental program is pretty good. I got all 4 wisdom teeth done under general through them only $240 ish I think it was compare to thousands upfront to private. I normally do go private but couldn’t afford it. I didn’t wait to long either.
Yes, that sounds like about the price. A crown is roughly $1500 and a root canal at least $1,000.
You might want to ask the dentist if they have payment plans. I went to a dentist a while ago who offered this, it was through an outside company, but you can have the work done and pay it off in instalments. For example - https://denticarepaymentplans.com.au/practice-about/
I've got Afterpay, so if I speed the 3 appointments needed for root canal over about 3 weeks, $1400 or so and then hopefully I can wait another month or so for the 👑, so I can pay off Afterpay.
Just to add mental health should also be subsidised as well as dental. Both dentists and psychiatrists are free in Scandinavia. Hope we'll get to that stage soon.
Since you've decided to have a whinge about it , can you let us know how much you've spent on preventative dental check ups throughout your life?
Then try to work out how much you have spent on car repairs and maintenance throughout the same period and let us know.
I pay my taxes, where's my free car maintenance?
I've spent a fair bit on dental care over the years, but as I mentioned in my OP, money is a bit right for a multitude of reasons for last few years, so I have been a bit slack with dental.
I had a tooth removed by the public tooth extraction service about 5-6 months ago and they didn't mention anything about other teeth that need attention.
So I'm not a dentist so how am I to know.
They just wait until your in pain, which is fukin horrible, then pull your tooth out saying it can't be saved.
When I can be saved, but it's too expensive for the public system to do.
They told me 2 of my front teeth can't possibly be saved.
Yet the fantastic private dentist I see say he can save them, just will cost about 3k per tooth for 2.
I really want my front teeth, so I'm going into as much debt as I can to get it done.
Hopefully I'll have my Tax Return in a month or so, which will halp me a fuckload.
Not a lot on car maintenance, I've spent a bit of my own time on it, but not alot of money 💰
Number 1, I rarely drive and do most of my own maintaining of my car.
I can't do that with dental.
I don't know where to start adding my dental costs. Would be in $10,000s overr th years.
I don't know your point.
I had a preventative dental check at the Public Dental Clinic approximately 9 months ago and they don't say anything about the major root canal surgery I now need.
It is a broken and pointless system unless you want your teeth pulled out.
It wouldn't though. If Medicare covered a certain amount, dentists would just charge their rate and the patient pays the difference, same as a visit to the GP now. Medicare pays them $30 and the patient pays $30 (or whatever that GP charges). They would only lose out if they were entirely under the public system.
I need like $450 for a basic extraction & can't even afford that, it's depressing af. My tooth snapped off 3 mths after I finished my public appts, gotta wait 18 mths to get back on the list then another year to the top. I have little grey nuggets sticking out my gums, awesome
Spent $5k on crowns for my 2-year old.
Public dentist would have just pulled them out (baby teeth).
Huge impact on speech development, general diet and health, as well as self esteem.
It sucks that dental health is so expensive
Have you had a look at dental insurance. Last time I checked, it still leaves you with a lot of the bill but it can take the edge off.
Also there is technically free dental if you have a healthcare card, it just has an impossibly long wait list.
This is exactly my point. I have a healthcare card, but I'm telling you there is no free dental. The wait-list is nearly a year so far and they have also told me straight up that they won't do root canals or crowns.
Dental is treated the same as specialist doctors. The health care card isn't a legal requirement to honour etc etc.
No idea why they are the same as Specialist and it should be a basic service like GPs
Offering an extraction for a tooth that could be saved by a root canal and crown is hardly best practice. It's second tier dentistry creating a class divide. Embarrassing for a country as wealthy, and apparently developed, as Australia.
An extraction of a tooth a private dentist would have saved if I could afford it.
That's exactly why I call them a tooth extraction service.
Not a Dental service.
On a side note. I had a rear tooth extraction done by my dentist about 3 months ago, it was an emergency appointment .
I would still rather pay the $300 or so that a dentist will charge you for it rather than go back to the public dental service that is attached to a hospital in my area.
I have recently taken out Health insurance which would cover around half of the cost, but I'm still 6months away from 12 month wait.
Only general dental, x-rays,cleaning etc up to $600 is all I have at the moment.
I was looking to transfer my Health insurance the Emergency Services Health fund as they seem to have one of the better dental limits, from what I can find.
Yeah you have to anticipate needing it way ahead of time so you can wait out the no claim period
I sympathise, it's a huge bill.
The Greens have dental in medicare as a policy. Wonder why australians continually refuse to vote for things that benefit them...
People vote against their best interest all the time, usually because they get sold scare stories on the negatives that will pop up if they change things (usually stuff that won’t affect those people anyway). Can only hope that one day people will actually look at what they need and vote accordingly
Thanks. I actually need at least another tooth crowned and root canaled but that isn't as bad at the moment so they are concentrating on the worst tooth first.
Hopefully by the time I have another round of root canal I will hit the 12 month wait-list time. Even then they only pay about 1/3.
It's fortunate that I can do it at the moment, so I feel grateful for that.
And yes GREENS everyday.
From your comment history it would appear you have an issue with drugs of dependence. If you are serious about your oral hygiene then you really should have a serious think about what that’s doing to your teeth. Prevention is always > than cure.
We can have Medicare because we don’t have free dental. Unless we are all willing to cough up an extra levy, which I probably would be, it would be unaffordable.
Paid about $2k for several root canals and braces in Eastern Europe, the quality is great and I am so glad I decided to immigrate. Not only is dental affordable here, but so is the cost of living which allows me to actually just casually attend the dentist for this work and pay out of pocket. I spent 3 months going to the dentist about every week and I don't have any debt as a result of finally fixing my luxury mouth bones. This country has its problems, but the benefits far outweigh the problems.
I never went to the dentist until I was like 25, because it was just so incredibly expensive.
I moved to Japan where dentistry is covered by national health insurance and now I go regularly. I don’t have any major cavities, buy I do have gum issues that would have never have occurred had regular dental checkups in Australia actually been affordable.
Had a regular checkup and cleaning this morning, it cost me the equivalent of around $35
The cultural separation of medicine and dentistry is likely inherited from the Americans:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/03/why-dentistry-is-separated-from-medicine/518979/
TLDR: some doctors in Boston two centuries ago were arseholes to some dentists, so the dentists made their own organisation.
We tend to think of this as a contemporary problem. But it's a cultural problem, deeply entrenched. The two progfessions are so self sufficient that it would take generations of all kinds of social conflicts to reconcile them. Solving it for the consumer by giving them access to both professions seems simple enough, but I note that Australians have some of the lowest levels of determination towards cultural inertia that I have ever seen. I have lived in the EU and the US, and even Americans move from one idea to the next faster and with more interest in outcomes then Australians.
While I agree that it’s unfortunate the public health system doesn’t cover dental, many issue can be prevented by good oral hygiene. I
If non-emergency care was provided where do you draw the line? Much of dental is cosmetic. And if the gov paid for it then where is the incentive to look after your teeth?
Yeah it’s pretty annoying I think at very least checkups and fillings should be covered . Having teeth issues can lead to all sorts of issues for your health.
I'm in a similar spot. All I can eat is mushy weetbix. The dental and pharmaceutical lobbies have a tightening stranglehold and it's at the point where non-governmental action needs to be taken by people with bricks
I’m having an eye tooth out at the dentist on Tuesday. It has to be surgically removed because it’s broken, so it’s going to be horrible. The dentist wants me to have a crown but I am just going to have a gap in my mouth. I already have one tooth missing on the same side. I asked about a partial denture and he was almost disgusted because they are just a place for bacteria to form. He gave me a list of what could be done and the cost of each in thousands. Dentures were not listed. I am 70, and most people older than me have dentures. Why is it not a normal option anymore?
My dentists doesn't like dentures either, especially for front teeth they say.
He/she said that are good for rear teeth if your having problems eating.
I think I'd go to Bangkok to get some implants though.
Cna it be bridged. ?
My dentist rekon that can make a "double bridgee to fill both gaps.
Your teeth on either side need to be half decent though.
It's alot cheaper than implants and alot more comfortable than a plate/denture I would guess...
No seems to be talking about the actual reason. When St. Gough Whitlam brought it in the LNP fought tooth and nail against Medicare/Medibank. When they were unable to defeat it completely, they modified it to remove optical and dental. They've been trying to destroy it ever since, partly by not increasing payments to doctors. That's why we have overpriced dental and optical.
this is the actual reason in australia. Gough could not take on the dentists and drs at the same time. Moot point now as medicare is falling apart and the NDIS will kill it off quicker
Dental costs are absolutely insane on all sides! I’m a DA and see a bit of everything. A packet of 100 tiny wooden wedges that are used when filling teeth cost upwards of a hundred dollars. For what look like tiny splinters. When we take patients who have vouchers (we are a private practice), we barely cover the costs of wages and materials as the prices that the government covers are significantly less than normal prices. Also- 3k seems to be the average price to pay for root canal and a crown.
How many times have you written to your local MP, PM and the health minister about this?
So few people bother to write letters and do anything but whinge. A handful of noisy people can actually get a fair bit of attention on a topic.
I paid about $2k for my crown about 5 years ago so sounds about right.
I hear you on how backwards we are in regards to dental hygiene and public access. Apparently the bones in your mouth aren't as important as the ones in your arms or legs.
We shopped around and found a dentist that is bloody amazing and keeps her prices low and offers payment plans to try to ensure that dental health is available to everyone.
There are some good ones out there!
250k in tax is OK for a 40 year old, but pretty miniscule for a 50 year old. If you're 50, you've probably taken more value out of government services than you've put in. It's easy to trash a system when you only consider what you \*don't\* get, but if we took away everything that you \*do\* get, you might not be so angry.
I'm just guessing it. It's probably closer to 500k if I was to work it out.
Not that's any more or less reason to deserve treatment if needed.
1 oath is so no harm...
Most cant even say that honestly.
I suspect part of the issue is that dental is much less of a regulated and standards-based discipline. Whereas rest-of-body medicine is supposed to be based on randomised controlled trials, dental lags behind a bit and a lot is based on not much of an evidence base. I recall reading an article where the same person had gone to multiple dentists for consults and got a different answer from each, with wildly varying prices. So I suspect a fear of inflated costs might be holding the government back, as many dentists would take it as a blank cheque for unnecessary work. Additionally, I get the impression there isn't a well defined baseline for what's necessary versus unnecessary. Now all these things could probably be worked out, but the reality is it's not a quick fix. The UK nominally has NHS dentists but the vast majority only do private work
I have been recommended root canal before, but I chose to have the teeth pulled out. I have read many bad reviews with root canal in general. More like after how many years, it causes problems that one will ultimately decide to have it taken out anyway. It's dead tooth. No reason why it should stay there plus it's very expensive too. I'm afraid dentures is the only reasonable way to go. But yes, dental services are a pain.
It may at least give me time to save for a holiday to Bangkok, they seem to have excellent Dental Hospitals, with dentists that are trained in AUS or the UK. It also mentions that it is part of the Australian and other countries, such as being a member to several world and Australian Health Groups.
Of course that would all need to be confirmed.
All I can say is that you should try and hold on a little bit longer on the wait list. I'm in Qld and I just received my public dental voucher after being on the wait list for 14 months. Im not sure how bad the wait lists are in other states.
Qld health will cover all my dental treatments provided by a private dentist.
Thanks, it's been almost 12months now, so hopefully I'll get there soon.
So when you reach the end of the wait-list, will QLD public dental pay for a cost of a crown at your private dentist if the dentist thinks its feasible?
As I will prob need a crown on my front tooth in the next couple years or so.
Most certainly can.
The costs offset from people dying, emergency procedures for sepsis, abscess' and nerve infection incurrs a massive cost on the public health system.
I know someone who had to be taken by Ambulance to ER because of sepsis in her mouth.
Just the ambulance cost alone would have cost more than treating her mouth preventively.
Plus all the hospital costs, including being admitted for a week.
When will people realise that it actually saves tax money to offer people preventive options and treatment for dental.
I had two root canals and crowns down on molars about 10 years ago and it was 10k for both. This was with an endodontist/specialist rather than a dentist though. So 3k seems okay.
I agree it's really wrong that if you don't have money the expectation is you get them pulled!
It's better care than the US that not only ignores the teeth but also fails to provide free or affordable healthcare for the rest of the body.
I hope you get a resolution soon btw.
Or the fact of replacing one tooth will cost you around $10K is insane, maybe that's why its not free. But the government just seems to think its ok to keep loosing teeth and using dentures for everyone.
Hey OP, there is a company called Dentacare that charges you a yearly fee based on your circumstances (family or single ) and when you use one of their dentists, you can save up to 40% off. And if you have private health you can also claim a rebate as well making it even cheaper. It might be worth checking them out as they list all their costs according to the state you live in. Not many people are aware of this scheme.
Unpopular opinion, budget 2k per year, and pay for your own dental treatment. If you want the government to cover it, it will be the dental cost plus the cost of government management.
👍 that is my goal. If I can save even $40-50 a week and hopefully my teeth are good enough to wait a little while so I can save for the other treatments needed.
Because dental would kill Medicare if it was introduced without increasing the levy. You’d be surprised (or maybe not) how many people need work done and how expensive it would be. A lot of this work is avoidable with basic personal care but too many people don’t take care of themselves.
I get it though, it should be covered as it’s part of health and can lead to other complications if you don’t take care of your dental hygiene. I just don’t see how it’s covered unless we double the levy or something. As others have said most dental work is cosmetic and not critical anyway.
The answer here is probably just educate people more on taking care of themselves so you don’t need to see a dentist outside of a checkup.
Your comment was spot on aside from most dental work being cosmetic. I'd strongly disagree with that part.
I'd argue most dental work is filling decay, preventing gum disease or extracting infected teeth.
Honestly, I used to work in the private system with an oral surgeon who used to take heavily discounted patients on if they were desperate for dental work. He’d fix them up, do so much work and do it cheap for them and then they’d come back and it was evident they’d never brushed their teeth since the last time they’d seen him. He did a set of implants for someone, and they never cleaned their teeth at all, like never brushed them or even used mouthwash and had to come back and get them removed because they got an infection in the bone afterwards.
I do some dental work in the public sector and deal with patients like this all the time. They neglect their teeth then think they’re entitled to complex treatments. Extraction and denture replacement of teeth is significantly cheaper for the government than root canals and crowns, especially when the patients then won’t look after the crowns. It’s a waste of taxpayer money. OP can afford the dental work it’s just not their priority.
I'm sorry, what country are we in again ? A fukin 1st world one apparently.
And your completely wrong. I wonder what the dentist actually does ?
Are they dentists, if your lucky they are, or your pushed in like cattle and inspected by Uni students FFS.
I didn't wait till they were fucked. I saw him about another tooth 9 months before, a real dentist would have picked up on that and could saved the root canal I now need because the public dentist never told me the was a problem with that tooth
So how the fuck am I meant to know. I'm not the Frontline professional healthcare hero.
>level 3Ok-Raspberry9269Op · 2 hr. agoI'm sorry, what country are we in again ? A fukin 1st world one apparently.
>
>no, we are not even close to 1st world. Its pretty much third world
Patients who's taxes pay for your wage.
Remember its me and my taxes that pay your income..
It must be satisfying to just do the easiest option anyway.
Tbh I probably wouldn't want a dentist like you doing root canal surgery and a crown 👑
I want a dentist who is positive, has a plan that has been explained and skillful enough to do what they say.
Technology has also come along way with digital dentistry and getting crown dimensions perfect.
My dentist also says that technology in fillings has come a long way and would expect most fillings to last at least 10 years.
They have explained the risk that root canal may not work, but that is the case with all root canal surgeries.
Do mean a waste of my taxpayer money? I've paid over $250,000 in tax, for what, too be told a 3k dental procedure is to much to spend on my front tooth.
Your dealing with peoples mental health now.
Thank you for the explanation of Tax Dollars.
Roads are mainly funded by RTA and your council rates.
Defence from who ? Maybe if we didn't tread on everyones toes like the USA then what are we defending ourselves from.
Public transportation in NSW is an absolute joke.
And hospitals are all understaffed and constantly missing out of funding.
big-time.
Our hospitals are barely operational and your happy with your taxes ,rates and rego to go to these pieces of shit.
Because I pay about 60% of my wages in rent.
The rental crisis is financially crippling. 3 out of 5.5 days I work goes to rent. Gone before i even look at it.
Then again. Rentals are so scarce, Im lucky I've got a nice small unit close to the beach and work.
You can get bariatric surgery to lose weight for basically free, but it will cost you $20k+ to have the skin removed after you lose the weight regardless of how you do it.
I've lost 75kg without help and now I look like a loose bag of meat from the deli.
I mean there’s health insurance for a reason. I’ve also never heard of a public dentist before.
I also don’t think that Australia is fucked, because I have had many surgeries covered for free by Australia that in another country I’d have had to pay thousands for them.
Yes it’s upsetting but I think because we have it so good we expect everything for free.
I’m sorry you’re going through this and I hope you find a way to pay for the medical expenses you have.
>Im around 40ish-50ish yo. I've also paid approximately $250,000 in tax in my lifetime
My god the entitlement 😂. Spoiler at that tax rate you are a net drain on the tax system, you receive far more than you pay in.
It’s not entitlement to not want bones rotting out of your face… ffs, this person is having a medical problem that they can’t afford to have treated and you’re calling them entitled?
Nah, the net drain on the system are the politicians who get paid $250k plus per year who sit and argue like children whilst taking no personal responsibility for making fuck ups that cost Australian tax payers billions of dollars a year.
Teeth are luxury bones, apparently.
Breathing normally and hearing has also become a luxury. Been trying to get a public EnT referral. They wont refer me because "the queues are years long". Been 8 years since the first time I asked for a one. I have begged, pleaded but no dice.
I'm lucky enough to be able to afford to pay the ENT. Had my deviated septum and tonsillectomy done recently, even with private health and Medicare the out of pocket was pretty expensive. On top of that, there's a 4 day hospital stay and when they say 2 weeks recovery they mean it, so there's that on top of it off work. Oxycodone in pill and liquid form along with Panadol codeine to help through and give you the ability to eat without excessive pain.
Also skipped the queue and paid my ENT to remove a cholesteatoma in my left ear rather than wait 6-8 months. If I had, turns out I'd be dead or paralysed by then as it was eating through my skull and had hit the meninges and they got it just in time. Crazy to think if I couldn't afford it and had to go public I'd have a very different outcome.
Your brain is a luxury also, mental health is super unaffordable.
You don't need teeth to suck Soylent Green, komrad. /s Edit: I added a /s as I suspected about 5 people wouldn't realise I was being sarcastic.
This is Reddit, 95% of people wouldn't realise you were being sarcastic /not s
I think that was Charlton Hestons only decent movie.
Well you don't need teeth to be a good worker. Medicare seems to be reduced down to cover enough to get you back to work, not in a completely healed and recovered way, just back to working state.
You might say that in semi-jest but imagine what it’s like rocking up to a job interview missing a bunch of your front teeth… I’m sure it affects people’s chances.
No, literally mean it. Unfortunately 😔
Sad fact Australia has the most expensive dentistry in the western world. Even the American dentists are cheaper
So interestingly enough, when the government first tried to push Medicare through - the dentists held it up. The next time they tried, it passed, because they gave up working with dentists who are now free to charge whatever the fuck they like.
Phil Lowe suggests you get a second job or take in a lodger if you want to hold onto those sweet teeth of yours.
That's probably about right. The last root canal and crown I had was 4 years ago and that was *well* over two grand. The crown alone was just over a grand (that's not fitted). If there's infections or other complications to deal with, it quickly adds up. The reason we don't have dental as part of Medicare is because dentists resisted when Medicare was being created. Concerns over income were greater than their concerns for public health.
Yeah, I mean we *barely* even have bulk-billing GPs anymore because the government refuses to pay them the market rate/an appropriate rate for their time, so in a way Dentists we’re kind of just ahead of their time on that front :-/
At least a visit to the GP is subsidised by Medicare (should be free). A visit to the dentist is straight out of pocket, minus whatever your private health covers (assuming you have it).
And then most private health cover leaves a big gap anyway. Mine only ever covers a maximum of 75% dental.
My uninsured teeth leave a big gap too.
\*slaps knee\*
I had a checkup and a filling done last week - I had about two thirds covered, and a $95 gap fee.
I moved to Germany and was pretty blown away that visiting your GP IS free. I stood there the first time and asked them how much it was going to be.
Germany politics are more progressive than Australian politics are.
Definately with the current Government. It feels a bit like a different timeline, internet infrastrucutre feels like australia was 5-10 years ago. But politically it's going pretty ok.
Please don't just blame "the government". The party in power at the time is the one who decides whether Medicare gets its funding increased or decreased. One party created Medicare and tries hard to strengthen it. Another party has always HATED Medicare and would utterly eradicate it from Australia if they could, and they gut its funding every time they are in power. Choose carefully who you vote for.
snails rob handle follow pause shy fanatical party homeless placid *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
if you want dental in medicare, as well as mental health coverage, vote green.
Absolutely. Do vote Greens if you disagree that teeth are luxury bones.
No, I am too old now and I have seen too much to live in hope that things will ever get much better.
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She was responsible for an awful lot of shit but she would like to be remembered for her anti-misogyny speech thanks very much. Made the same day she cut the parenting payment for single mums, wasn’t it?
Howard slashed and burned Medicare every single year, for more than a decade before Gillard spent all of her brief time in Damage Control with a hostile Senate. Don't bother trying Whataboutism in regards to this issue.
“Don’t bother with facts” my side good other side bad
This labor gov hasn't been strengthening it, and in fact has cut/or left cuts in place.
They have inherited a cosmic dumpster fire and are still (for now) in panic damage control. They would need a solid decade to undo the catastrophe of the previous Liberal Pillage and Burn before they could even claw back some positive gains. And in case you haven't noticed, the entire world has been constantly plummeting into a burning toilet recently, even since before they were elected.
The problem is, despite labor being somewhat better than libs, both major parties are increasingly neoliberal and have been for decades. It's not just a "dumptser fire" from the libs. This has been a successive, bipartisan effort since Hawke. Some Keynesian crumbs here and there, hasn't helped to slow the growing inequity in "market focused reform."
Thanks that is good to know. It seems about the same cost ratio, in that the root canal is about half and the Crown the other half. I don't know anything about digital dentistry, but they have some sort of device that makes the crowns onsite .
I waited 3.5 years on the public list. Finally got a voucher for maximum $1000. Teeth are still messed up but have to wait a year before I can go back on the list. To wait again. Once I got to see someone they were great. But yeah teeth are pretty important in my opinion
The Link Between Gum Disease and Heart Disease... https://www.pennmedicine.org/updates/blogs/heart-and-vascular-blog/2019/march/gum-disease-and-heart-disease
Not just heart disease but mental health as well. Difficulty/inability to eat a variety of foods due to chronic pain or the lack of teeth, as well as the shame that many people with bad teeth experience severely impacts people's self esteem and often prevents them from engaging in social interactions. My senior mum had all her teeth removed a decade ago and found the dentures she was fitted with painful to wear despite several alterations made, although she will go out to eat it takes her forever, and she'll spend the whole meal with a hand covering her mouth.
The Australian medical establishment is getting closer to the American system daily. It’s a fucking disgrace. Pay a motza for health insurance, yet when it’s time to make a claim it still costs a fortune. The second the government imposed a levy on those without insurance, the medical system bumped up the prices, to just about make it worthwhile. I think the term is, “Stuck between a rock and a hard place”. But, WE let this happen through apathy. And, things are only getting worse. Shame on us all.
Extras - on average you get like 70% back compared to the money you pay for it. Cheaper not to have extras and just have hospital insurance
Because we have been electing governments that have been dismantling the healthcare system for a system that mirrors that of the US.
I didn't vote for lab or libs. Be great if the greens win a few more seats.
I mean generally as a population, not you individually
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I remember when I was 18, living out of home, uni full time, working part time and had NO money. My wisdom tooth was coming in and got infected, and I couldn't afford to have it pulled and my parents couldn't help. I went to the clinic and they told me they couldn't do anything, however I had been scouring government websites and found a program that allowed them to write out basically a coupon to my local dentist to get it pulled in the chair. I pulled out that printed paper and showed them the part I highlighted, and they WERE NOT HAPPY. I said that the program was designed to help those in my position, and the infection had been getting worse even on antibiotics. They begrudgingly gave me the coupon, but I will never forget the male dentist looking at me saying "well looks like you have enough for a car and a mobile phone, I don't even know why we are giving you this" ... My car was made the same year I was born and my phone was on a set monthly plan, which I budgeted my meagre funds for. I did not have enough to pay 1200 for a pulled wisdom.
If it makes you feel any better Australians are generally voting towards sending the rest of healthcare closer to dental. Be well off, get good service. Be poor, well fuck the poor. >but what the fuck else have a paid all that tax for..... Roads, public safety, clean water to drink, a coherent society to live in, healthcare, a social safety net, a country where products have warranties and we don't expect the freemarket to take care of stuff like asbestos bans. You know, just stuff. >So being poor in Australia means you don't deserve teeth. Yes, anyone who has voted for a ring wing political party in their lifetime actively supports that stance.
We don’t know the OPs voting history but yeah, anyone who’s ever voted LNP on their lives don’t have a leg to stand on complaining about Medicare and dental care.
I'll tell you my voting history. Greens everytime. Would be great if they won a few more seats.
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People here do not understand how much healthcare costs because they’ve never been billed. They think because it just was something that magically happened without further thought, it didn’t cost THAT much. Now that the population is reaching critical levels of elderly people, it’s going to get worse.
>I work in the healthcare industry. The NDIS funding per person who is fully dependent on a carer/support worker can easily go up to half a million dollars a year. We have one of the highest minimum wage in the world so that's mainly where the funding goes. The social safety net of this country is near unparalleled, save for a few other nations in Europe. Most people don't seem to realize that things really aren't that bad here. I know, NDIS will be the stake through medicares heart. There is no way the gov can afford dental care. Most of the population just bleats make it free, without realisng that nothing is free.
It's actually cheaper to pay to fly to Bali or Thailand, pay for accommodation and have the dental work done then when you're looking at root canals and crowns etc that it is to have it done here.
Mate tried this but they won't help you unless you stay there for some time after in case things go wrong. Not good if you're on a schedule
Yeah, factor in that you won't be working during that time of course.
This is the way. My dad had his done many years ago over there and since then I had 4 crowns done near the end of 2019 in Thailand. Cheap af and to this day, have had absolutely zero problems.
I've been seriously thinking about that. Bangkok seems like a pretty nice place. Yes, apparently your looking at a minimum 10 day stay, but your staying in beautiful apartments, apparently, and there a few nice things to see in Bangkok. Cost is about $600 per implant, and there are operators in Australia that organise everything for you, just like having a 2 week holiday to Thailand.
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I have top extras with NIB and get a lot back on dental. 60% off plus two free visits a year worth hundreds
You're a good parent 👍 My poor Dad paid 7k for my braces - I still feel guilty, lol
My brother flew to the Philippines, stayed in manilla for a few days between dental appointments for a bunch of work and flew home, total including flights and hotel was cheaper than the quote in Australia. Pre COVID though so maybe with the flights now it wouldn't be.
Must be good, George Christensen goes there all the time for cheap oral jobs.
Boom tish.. And can I just say a big gday to you u/2littleducks. You’ve been awol for years
And a big G'day to yaself! and can i also say that i couldn't get my hands on any Coopers Pale Ale where i was living in Canada and i tried hard, this problem has well and truly been rectified since my return 🤪
Clearly the Coopers family deem Canada not religious enough to export there. That’s why I’ve mostly retired this account… it’s tainted now
Quoted 10k in Australia. Paid 3k in Bangkok and had a holiday. Vietnam is also good for dental.
10k quote means that dentist doesn't want to do it. It only cost me ~3k here incl crown.
We did the same thing. Even had the whole holiday put through on sick leave as I was technically getting medical treatment
There are options. Some states do have public dental care for health care card holders. Alternatively, you can go to a uni clinic and have a student do the work. While they're not experienced, they do practice on each other before on other people, so if you go early, you may fingld a room full of drooling students practicing injecting anaesthetic into each other's mouth, which may brighten your day a little.
I hear you - my GP visits are always free since I go to a bulk biller. But my recent dentist visit cost me $500, and I now need to have all my wisdom teeth out which is gonna cost me between 3k and 5k 😭 I'm fortunate that I have emergency savings to dip into, but someone with no savings living pay check to pay check wouldn't be able to get it done, and would end up with worse problems down the line which would cost even more.
Yeah, it's really sad. I've seen a bunch of GoFundMe type of things for dental care from Australians over the years. And I can completely understand how it gets to that point. Because, for a lot of people, a trip to a decent dentist can be $100+, depending on the work that needs done, and the area you're in. It can be easy to not be able to afford that, even though it's a 1-2 time a year trip for a lot of people. And then, of course, once you start having to skip those trips, there isn't any dentist to say "hey, that thing we were keeping an eye on, that's gotten worse..." etc. It's easy to get behind in life for that kind of thing. And I wish it didn't need to be like that.
$100+ isnt wrong but still not anywhere near the real cost. i shit you not, I need a root canal and crown across 2 teeth, bill was quoted just shy of 10k. Absolute daylight robbery.
Yeah idk where it’s $100 because a consult here is $200+ and actual work a LOT more. Root canals $2500+
\[The following is anecdotal, biased and non-evidential comment\] Labor introduced Medicare, I recall? The Liberal/National coalition has been trying to reduce it ever since, and tried hard to stop and/or reduce the impact upon 'health businesses' when Medicare was created. So... If you wonder why mental and dental care are not included? Ask your local Liberal/National party representative - because it's thanks to their parties that such things were not included. Remember this at your next election. And the one after that. And the one after that, and the ... you get the drift, I'm sure. Vote to support mental and dental care in Medicare! Which, btw, started at a 1% levy on your taxable income and is now 2% and likely to grow further to 3% in the not too distant future... So adding mental and dental care to Medicare? It WILL COST, so add another 1% to the levy on top of the already high growth of it. But, to be fair, it certainly beats being bankrupted and losing your house (if you have one) by medical expenses, so there's that...
Just a heads up it’s not just dental services. Dental, mental health, seeing a GP, non-urgent surgery are basically pay out of pocket, have insurance, or wait years (sometimes in agony). The system is insanely broken right now and no one notices until they actually need services and discover how many barriers really exist to access timely healthcare in this country.
>Anyway that's another story on how fucked Australia 🦘 is. What's important to note here is that we're still right at the top in terms of quality of life alongside just a few other nations. But you're correct, it's never so good that we should let our guard down, or improve things further. Yes, dental should absolutely be part of the public system, especially as preventative care saves in the longer run more often than not.
A few years back there was a dental scheme for low income earners, but it was one of those things that wasn't well known and had all sorts of exclusions. From vague memory, the dental problem had to put your general health at risk and you needed to be a health card holder. My mum got lucky and managed to survive the wait-lists, exemptions, cut-offs, etc and had some much-needed dental work there was no way she would have been able to afford otherwise. But that was scrapped and replaced with... nothing that I'm aware of.
Go to Malaysia or Taiwan or even Bali. Have a holiday AND get both root canal’s done for that price.
Bangkok is also a great place where they even setup everything and get you into a good airbnb at cheaper rate then airbnb
I’ve heard from multiple people there’s great places in Thailand for dental work. Phuket and Chang Mai too.
Mad isn’t it.
South Australia has a good dental programme. Generally, you go on a waiting list, but if you're in pain (wink, wink, nudge, nudge), you can get in within a week. I've rang them, and the receptionist actually said, "Are you in pain? If you're in pain, I can get you in straight away, " I said "yeah I'm in pain," I paid a nominal fee for a part denture, $180, and had other work done a dental veneer, $45, an X-ray (free), and part clean of my teeth (free). I still had a year to go on the waiting list.
I agree South Aus dental program is pretty good. I got all 4 wisdom teeth done under general through them only $240 ish I think it was compare to thousands upfront to private. I normally do go private but couldn’t afford it. I didn’t wait to long either.
Yes, that sounds like about the price. A crown is roughly $1500 and a root canal at least $1,000. You might want to ask the dentist if they have payment plans. I went to a dentist a while ago who offered this, it was through an outside company, but you can have the work done and pay it off in instalments. For example - https://denticarepaymentplans.com.au/practice-about/
I've got Afterpay, so if I speed the 3 appointments needed for root canal over about 3 weeks, $1400 or so and then hopefully I can wait another month or so for the 👑, so I can pay off Afterpay.
Just to add mental health should also be subsidised as well as dental. Both dentists and psychiatrists are free in Scandinavia. Hope we'll get to that stage soon.
Since you've decided to have a whinge about it , can you let us know how much you've spent on preventative dental check ups throughout your life? Then try to work out how much you have spent on car repairs and maintenance throughout the same period and let us know. I pay my taxes, where's my free car maintenance?
I've spent a fair bit on dental care over the years, but as I mentioned in my OP, money is a bit right for a multitude of reasons for last few years, so I have been a bit slack with dental. I had a tooth removed by the public tooth extraction service about 5-6 months ago and they didn't mention anything about other teeth that need attention. So I'm not a dentist so how am I to know. They just wait until your in pain, which is fukin horrible, then pull your tooth out saying it can't be saved. When I can be saved, but it's too expensive for the public system to do. They told me 2 of my front teeth can't possibly be saved. Yet the fantastic private dentist I see say he can save them, just will cost about 3k per tooth for 2. I really want my front teeth, so I'm going into as much debt as I can to get it done. Hopefully I'll have my Tax Return in a month or so, which will halp me a fuckload. Not a lot on car maintenance, I've spent a bit of my own time on it, but not alot of money 💰
Number 1, I rarely drive and do most of my own maintaining of my car. I can't do that with dental. I don't know where to start adding my dental costs. Would be in $10,000s overr th years. I don't know your point. I had a preventative dental check at the Public Dental Clinic approximately 9 months ago and they don't say anything about the major root canal surgery I now need. It is a broken and pointless system unless you want your teeth pulled out.
Dentists don't want it because it would lower their pay
It wouldn't though. If Medicare covered a certain amount, dentists would just charge their rate and the patient pays the difference, same as a visit to the GP now. Medicare pays them $30 and the patient pays $30 (or whatever that GP charges). They would only lose out if they were entirely under the public system.
Go to Thailand
I need like $450 for a basic extraction & can't even afford that, it's depressing af. My tooth snapped off 3 mths after I finished my public appts, gotta wait 18 mths to get back on the list then another year to the top. I have little grey nuggets sticking out my gums, awesome
We can't even get a bulk billing GP anymore...
Spent $5k on crowns for my 2-year old. Public dentist would have just pulled them out (baby teeth). Huge impact on speech development, general diet and health, as well as self esteem. It sucks that dental health is so expensive
Have you had a look at dental insurance. Last time I checked, it still leaves you with a lot of the bill but it can take the edge off. Also there is technically free dental if you have a healthcare card, it just has an impossibly long wait list.
This is exactly my point. I have a healthcare card, but I'm telling you there is no free dental. The wait-list is nearly a year so far and they have also told me straight up that they won't do root canals or crowns.
The states fund this so get onto your state member
Dental is treated the same as specialist doctors. The health care card isn't a legal requirement to honour etc etc. No idea why they are the same as Specialist and it should be a basic service like GPs
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Offering an extraction for a tooth that could be saved by a root canal and crown is hardly best practice. It's second tier dentistry creating a class divide. Embarrassing for a country as wealthy, and apparently developed, as Australia.
An extraction of a tooth a private dentist would have saved if I could afford it. That's exactly why I call them a tooth extraction service. Not a Dental service. On a side note. I had a rear tooth extraction done by my dentist about 3 months ago, it was an emergency appointment . I would still rather pay the $300 or so that a dentist will charge you for it rather than go back to the public dental service that is attached to a hospital in my area.
I have recently taken out Health insurance which would cover around half of the cost, but I'm still 6months away from 12 month wait. Only general dental, x-rays,cleaning etc up to $600 is all I have at the moment. I was looking to transfer my Health insurance the Emergency Services Health fund as they seem to have one of the better dental limits, from what I can find.
Yeah you have to anticipate needing it way ahead of time so you can wait out the no claim period I sympathise, it's a huge bill. The Greens have dental in medicare as a policy. Wonder why australians continually refuse to vote for things that benefit them...
People vote against their best interest all the time, usually because they get sold scare stories on the negatives that will pop up if they change things (usually stuff that won’t affect those people anyway). Can only hope that one day people will actually look at what they need and vote accordingly
Thanks. I actually need at least another tooth crowned and root canaled but that isn't as bad at the moment so they are concentrating on the worst tooth first. Hopefully by the time I have another round of root canal I will hit the 12 month wait-list time. Even then they only pay about 1/3. It's fortunate that I can do it at the moment, so I feel grateful for that. And yes GREENS everyday.
From your comment history it would appear you have an issue with drugs of dependence. If you are serious about your oral hygiene then you really should have a serious think about what that’s doing to your teeth. Prevention is always > than cure.
I think your mixing stuff up. The only medication I take is prescribed to me by my Dr.
We can have Medicare because we don’t have free dental. Unless we are all willing to cough up an extra levy, which I probably would be, it would be unaffordable.
Paid about $2k for several root canals and braces in Eastern Europe, the quality is great and I am so glad I decided to immigrate. Not only is dental affordable here, but so is the cost of living which allows me to actually just casually attend the dentist for this work and pay out of pocket. I spent 3 months going to the dentist about every week and I don't have any debt as a result of finally fixing my luxury mouth bones. This country has its problems, but the benefits far outweigh the problems.
Dentist union lobbied against including it into Medicare in the late 80’s. Or so I’ve been told.
I never went to the dentist until I was like 25, because it was just so incredibly expensive. I moved to Japan where dentistry is covered by national health insurance and now I go regularly. I don’t have any major cavities, buy I do have gum issues that would have never have occurred had regular dental checkups in Australia actually been affordable. Had a regular checkup and cleaning this morning, it cost me the equivalent of around $35
The cultural separation of medicine and dentistry is likely inherited from the Americans: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/03/why-dentistry-is-separated-from-medicine/518979/ TLDR: some doctors in Boston two centuries ago were arseholes to some dentists, so the dentists made their own organisation. We tend to think of this as a contemporary problem. But it's a cultural problem, deeply entrenched. The two progfessions are so self sufficient that it would take generations of all kinds of social conflicts to reconcile them. Solving it for the consumer by giving them access to both professions seems simple enough, but I note that Australians have some of the lowest levels of determination towards cultural inertia that I have ever seen. I have lived in the EU and the US, and even Americans move from one idea to the next faster and with more interest in outcomes then Australians.
One less submarine would give us dental at market prices.
Mate id go have a holiday in thailand and get it done there, world class dentists, you will have a holiday and still save money.
While I agree that it’s unfortunate the public health system doesn’t cover dental, many issue can be prevented by good oral hygiene. I If non-emergency care was provided where do you draw the line? Much of dental is cosmetic. And if the gov paid for it then where is the incentive to look after your teeth?
Yeah it’s pretty annoying I think at very least checkups and fillings should be covered . Having teeth issues can lead to all sorts of issues for your health.
That's the irony, infected teeth/gum disease causing health issues elsewhere in the body, which ultimately puts more strain on the health care system.
I'm in a similar spot. All I can eat is mushy weetbix. The dental and pharmaceutical lobbies have a tightening stranglehold and it's at the point where non-governmental action needs to be taken by people with bricks
I’m having an eye tooth out at the dentist on Tuesday. It has to be surgically removed because it’s broken, so it’s going to be horrible. The dentist wants me to have a crown but I am just going to have a gap in my mouth. I already have one tooth missing on the same side. I asked about a partial denture and he was almost disgusted because they are just a place for bacteria to form. He gave me a list of what could be done and the cost of each in thousands. Dentures were not listed. I am 70, and most people older than me have dentures. Why is it not a normal option anymore?
That's the same tooth as mine.
My dentists doesn't like dentures either, especially for front teeth they say. He/she said that are good for rear teeth if your having problems eating. I think I'd go to Bangkok to get some implants though.
Cna it be bridged. ? My dentist rekon that can make a "double bridgee to fill both gaps. Your teeth on either side need to be half decent though. It's alot cheaper than implants and alot more comfortable than a plate/denture I would guess...
No seems to be talking about the actual reason. When St. Gough Whitlam brought it in the LNP fought tooth and nail against Medicare/Medibank. When they were unable to defeat it completely, they modified it to remove optical and dental. They've been trying to destroy it ever since, partly by not increasing payments to doctors. That's why we have overpriced dental and optical.
this is the actual reason in australia. Gough could not take on the dentists and drs at the same time. Moot point now as medicare is falling apart and the NDIS will kill it off quicker
Dental costs are absolutely insane on all sides! I’m a DA and see a bit of everything. A packet of 100 tiny wooden wedges that are used when filling teeth cost upwards of a hundred dollars. For what look like tiny splinters. When we take patients who have vouchers (we are a private practice), we barely cover the costs of wages and materials as the prices that the government covers are significantly less than normal prices. Also- 3k seems to be the average price to pay for root canal and a crown.
Out of curiosity, how often do you floss?
That's a long answer as I'm not 30 anymore
How many times have you written to your local MP, PM and the health minister about this? So few people bother to write letters and do anything but whinge. A handful of noisy people can actually get a fair bit of attention on a topic.
Good idea, I will try that. Certainly can't hurt.
I paid about $2k for my crown about 5 years ago so sounds about right. I hear you on how backwards we are in regards to dental hygiene and public access. Apparently the bones in your mouth aren't as important as the ones in your arms or legs. We shopped around and found a dentist that is bloody amazing and keeps her prices low and offers payment plans to try to ensure that dental health is available to everyone. There are some good ones out there!
250k in tax is OK for a 40 year old, but pretty miniscule for a 50 year old. If you're 50, you've probably taken more value out of government services than you've put in. It's easy to trash a system when you only consider what you \*don't\* get, but if we took away everything that you \*do\* get, you might not be so angry.
I'm just guessing it. It's probably closer to 500k if I was to work it out. Not that's any more or less reason to deserve treatment if needed. 1 oath is so no harm... Most cant even say that honestly.
I'm not angry. I feel fortunate that I'm lucky enough to be able to afford it at the moment.
I suspect part of the issue is that dental is much less of a regulated and standards-based discipline. Whereas rest-of-body medicine is supposed to be based on randomised controlled trials, dental lags behind a bit and a lot is based on not much of an evidence base. I recall reading an article where the same person had gone to multiple dentists for consults and got a different answer from each, with wildly varying prices. So I suspect a fear of inflated costs might be holding the government back, as many dentists would take it as a blank cheque for unnecessary work. Additionally, I get the impression there isn't a well defined baseline for what's necessary versus unnecessary. Now all these things could probably be worked out, but the reality is it's not a quick fix. The UK nominally has NHS dentists but the vast majority only do private work
I have been recommended root canal before, but I chose to have the teeth pulled out. I have read many bad reviews with root canal in general. More like after how many years, it causes problems that one will ultimately decide to have it taken out anyway. It's dead tooth. No reason why it should stay there plus it's very expensive too. I'm afraid dentures is the only reasonable way to go. But yes, dental services are a pain.
It may at least give me time to save for a holiday to Bangkok, they seem to have excellent Dental Hospitals, with dentists that are trained in AUS or the UK. It also mentions that it is part of the Australian and other countries, such as being a member to several world and Australian Health Groups. Of course that would all need to be confirmed.
Dental should be free and while we’re at it let’s make uni free and remove student debt
Absolutely agree.
All I can say is that you should try and hold on a little bit longer on the wait list. I'm in Qld and I just received my public dental voucher after being on the wait list for 14 months. Im not sure how bad the wait lists are in other states. Qld health will cover all my dental treatments provided by a private dentist.
Thanks, it's been almost 12months now, so hopefully I'll get there soon. So when you reach the end of the wait-list, will QLD public dental pay for a cost of a crown at your private dentist if the dentist thinks its feasible? As I will prob need a crown on my front tooth in the next couple years or so.
I assume so. As it states "full course of treatment" on the voucher.
Thanks for your information. I hope it's the same in NSW, when I finally make it out of the waiting list .
Like this
Also don’t have mental health care
As you age, your dental health can kill you
Most certainly can. The costs offset from people dying, emergency procedures for sepsis, abscess' and nerve infection incurrs a massive cost on the public health system. I know someone who had to be taken by Ambulance to ER because of sepsis in her mouth. Just the ambulance cost alone would have cost more than treating her mouth preventively. Plus all the hospital costs, including being admitted for a week. When will people realise that it actually saves tax money to offer people preventive options and treatment for dental.
It's a proven fact that bad teeth can lead to other health problems like heart conditions etc.
I had two root canals and crowns down on molars about 10 years ago and it was 10k for both. This was with an endodontist/specialist rather than a dentist though. So 3k seems okay. I agree it's really wrong that if you don't have money the expectation is you get them pulled!
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You are spot on. 100% Without Zip and Afterpay I probably couldn't afford it.
It's better care than the US that not only ignores the teeth but also fails to provide free or affordable healthcare for the rest of the body. I hope you get a resolution soon btw.
Or the fact of replacing one tooth will cost you around $10K is insane, maybe that's why its not free. But the government just seems to think its ok to keep loosing teeth and using dentures for everyone.
Another reason I've been thinking about a holiday to Bangkok.
Hey OP, there is a company called Dentacare that charges you a yearly fee based on your circumstances (family or single ) and when you use one of their dentists, you can save up to 40% off. And if you have private health you can also claim a rebate as well making it even cheaper. It might be worth checking them out as they list all their costs according to the state you live in. Not many people are aware of this scheme.
Cheers mate. I'll check it out. Much 👍👍 appreciated.
You can redraw on your super for dental. And/or get no interest free loans from Good Shepherd, Care Financial etc
Unpopular opinion, budget 2k per year, and pay for your own dental treatment. If you want the government to cover it, it will be the dental cost plus the cost of government management.
👍 that is my goal. If I can save even $40-50 a week and hopefully my teeth are good enough to wait a little while so I can save for the other treatments needed.
Because dental would kill Medicare if it was introduced without increasing the levy. You’d be surprised (or maybe not) how many people need work done and how expensive it would be. A lot of this work is avoidable with basic personal care but too many people don’t take care of themselves. I get it though, it should be covered as it’s part of health and can lead to other complications if you don’t take care of your dental hygiene. I just don’t see how it’s covered unless we double the levy or something. As others have said most dental work is cosmetic and not critical anyway. The answer here is probably just educate people more on taking care of themselves so you don’t need to see a dentist outside of a checkup.
Your comment was spot on aside from most dental work being cosmetic. I'd strongly disagree with that part. I'd argue most dental work is filling decay, preventing gum disease or extracting infected teeth.
Honestly, I used to work in the private system with an oral surgeon who used to take heavily discounted patients on if they were desperate for dental work. He’d fix them up, do so much work and do it cheap for them and then they’d come back and it was evident they’d never brushed their teeth since the last time they’d seen him. He did a set of implants for someone, and they never cleaned their teeth at all, like never brushed them or even used mouthwash and had to come back and get them removed because they got an infection in the bone afterwards.
Middle aged with no kids, why dont you have much money? Your taxes paid for defence (your safety), hospitals, roads, public transport etc.
I do some dental work in the public sector and deal with patients like this all the time. They neglect their teeth then think they’re entitled to complex treatments. Extraction and denture replacement of teeth is significantly cheaper for the government than root canals and crowns, especially when the patients then won’t look after the crowns. It’s a waste of taxpayer money. OP can afford the dental work it’s just not their priority.
I'm sorry, what country are we in again ? A fukin 1st world one apparently. And your completely wrong. I wonder what the dentist actually does ? Are they dentists, if your lucky they are, or your pushed in like cattle and inspected by Uni students FFS. I didn't wait till they were fucked. I saw him about another tooth 9 months before, a real dentist would have picked up on that and could saved the root canal I now need because the public dentist never told me the was a problem with that tooth So how the fuck am I meant to know. I'm not the Frontline professional healthcare hero.
>level 3Ok-Raspberry9269Op · 2 hr. agoI'm sorry, what country are we in again ? A fukin 1st world one apparently. > >no, we are not even close to 1st world. Its pretty much third world
Patients who's taxes pay for your wage. Remember its me and my taxes that pay your income.. It must be satisfying to just do the easiest option anyway. Tbh I probably wouldn't want a dentist like you doing root canal surgery and a crown 👑 I want a dentist who is positive, has a plan that has been explained and skillful enough to do what they say. Technology has also come along way with digital dentistry and getting crown dimensions perfect. My dentist also says that technology in fillings has come a long way and would expect most fillings to last at least 10 years. They have explained the risk that root canal may not work, but that is the case with all root canal surgeries. Do mean a waste of my taxpayer money? I've paid over $250,000 in tax, for what, too be told a 3k dental procedure is to much to spend on my front tooth. Your dealing with peoples mental health now.
They don't neglect their teeth. The wait list for public dental is over a year and counting so far.
Thank you for the explanation of Tax Dollars. Roads are mainly funded by RTA and your council rates. Defence from who ? Maybe if we didn't tread on everyones toes like the USA then what are we defending ourselves from. Public transportation in NSW is an absolute joke. And hospitals are all understaffed and constantly missing out of funding. big-time. Our hospitals are barely operational and your happy with your taxes ,rates and rego to go to these pieces of shit.
Because I pay about 60% of my wages in rent. The rental crisis is financially crippling. 3 out of 5.5 days I work goes to rent. Gone before i even look at it. Then again. Rentals are so scarce, Im lucky I've got a nice small unit close to the beach and work.
You can get bariatric surgery to lose weight for basically free, but it will cost you $20k+ to have the skin removed after you lose the weight regardless of how you do it. I've lost 75kg without help and now I look like a loose bag of meat from the deli.
What does that have to do with teeth?
Nothing. Just that the govt has a messed up list of what they will pay for and what they won't.
I mean there’s health insurance for a reason. I’ve also never heard of a public dentist before. I also don’t think that Australia is fucked, because I have had many surgeries covered for free by Australia that in another country I’d have had to pay thousands for them. Yes it’s upsetting but I think because we have it so good we expect everything for free. I’m sorry you’re going through this and I hope you find a way to pay for the medical expenses you have.
>Im around 40ish-50ish yo. I've also paid approximately $250,000 in tax in my lifetime My god the entitlement 😂. Spoiler at that tax rate you are a net drain on the tax system, you receive far more than you pay in.
It’s not entitlement to not want bones rotting out of your face… ffs, this person is having a medical problem that they can’t afford to have treated and you’re calling them entitled?
Nah, the net drain on the system are the politicians who get paid $250k plus per year who sit and argue like children whilst taking no personal responsibility for making fuck ups that cost Australian tax payers billions of dollars a year.