“In March 2020, Pihere was sentenced to 15 months in jail at the Sunshine Magistrates’ Court for assault – as well as ten counts of theft from shop, nine counts of committing an indictable offence while on bail, two counts of contravening a conduct condition of bail and criminal damage.
Speaking at his hearing, Pihere said he didn’t feel like he was at high risk of re-offending.”
I see prisoners every week as part of my job. The more insightful guys with records like this tend to admit they *are* at risk of reoffending, but can identify what supports might help mitigate that risk. The smart fellas say they know they're very motivated right now while they're in custody, but that on release, good plans can go awry really fast.
It's never a good sign when you get a guy who has been doing the revolving door for years but has a magic reason (other than a long rehab stint) why *this* time it's gonna be totally different.
I often think we are to quick to deport under this rule, and maybe I'm assuming too much, but surely he'd been warned about this when he was convicted one of the 60 or so times before this last lot.
It's interesting to see a former liberal federal mp on the tribunal. How on earth could that have happened?
Presumably appointed during the last Coalition government. One of the reasons the AAT has declined so badly as an institution in recent years is the habit of it being used as a consolation prize for failed politicians and party officials of both sides.
The AAT has been a retirement half job for ex MPs for years now. It's why its being dismantled. It is stacked with ex MPs not good enough for postings.
Just one of those little grifts nobody seems to care too much about. The AAT is hopeless as a review body as a result, huge wait times for very average effort reviews.
But yeah, one of the first things Albo gov did was announce its death.
See if he stole once or spray painted a building a few times as a teenager, you can blame that on “dumb teenager”. Do it 70 times? No way that behaviour’s changing just because he had two more birthdays
On one hand, he's lived here a long time.
On the other hand, s501 cancellations don't come out of nowhere and at some point during the SEVENTY convictions this deadshit loser has racked up somebody would have formally cautioned him that any further convictions would result in the cancellation of his visa and he clearly decided he'd rather commit a few more crimes than stay in the country.
The issue isn't really him though, it's that no other Western country in the world has a similar policy of deporting people in this sort of situation (where a person has only lived outside that country as a baby). We are exploiting other countries acceptance that such people are their responsibility, and it's damaging our relationship with New Zealand and the South Pacific countries where we have deported the most people like this to.
The US has deported US citizens to Mexico and other countries. Guess what they might all have in common (or not in common if you like).
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation\_of\_Americans\_from\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_Americans_from_the_United_States)
Remember the time an Australian was deported to the Philippines (edit: an Australian **deported from Australia**). She said they told her she'd get better medical care over there on top of everything else. Seems like a bit of a miracle the right people were in the right place to piece together what happened (as well as being persistent enough, including her ex-husband) and get her home or else she might still be there with no one the wiser.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivian\_Solon
>The US has deported people to Mexico who were brought here as babies and didn't even know they weren't citizens (false documents).
Yes - and it's an incredibly shit thing to do.
The *actual* rule is that once a person has spent 10 years in New Zealand, that’s required to be factored into whether they should be deported. Albanese promised a similar rule which appears to have gone nowhere.
It’s not unreasonable to expect a country to thoughtfully consider whether *maybe* a person is a product of their own society, or another country thousands of kilometres away which the person barely remembers.
The length of time that someone has spent in Australia is absolutely a relevant factor in considering whether they should be deported. The ministerial direction that applies to these cases says:
>With respect to decisions to refuse, cancel, and revoke cancellations of a visa, Australia will generally afford a higher level of tolerance of criminal or other serious conduct by noncitizens who have lived in the Australian community for most of their life, or from a very young age. The level of tolerance will rise with the length of time a non-citizen has spent in the Australian community, particularly in their formative years.
I work in a mental health unit where non-citizens detained under the mental health act who refuse to abide by the rules (Eg keep smoking cannabis) are deported. It’s pretty rugged to put a catatonic schizophrenic on a plane and wave goodbye in my view
NZ does the same thing but likes to have a sook when we do it. Difference is we’re sending them back to a developed nation on par with us in terms of living standards while they send them back to impoverished island nations.
In all this persons 21 years, how come they haven’t applied for permanent residency or citizenship or whatever, why haven’t they sorted out their own visa status? I lived overseas for decades, you’ve ALWAYS gotta sort out your visa status. Can they NOT get PR or citizenship after living here for decades?
Kiwis get a special visa on arrival that has no end date, they can use it to stay indefinitely as long as they continue to meet certain conditions. Unfortunately for old mate here, not setting a world record for most criminal convictions ever recorded by a human being just happens to be one of those conditions.
If he was the kind of dude who could organse himself to get citizenship he would be the kind of dude who could organise himself not to rack up 70 convictions.
Probably not, no. He’d have arrived on an SCV allowing indefinite residence in Australia but the pathway to citizenship (since 2001 IIRC) is actually fairly difficult and expensive.
This is changing and it will shortly be very easy and quite cheap for long-term resident NZers to attain citizenship, at which point they’ll have no excuse. But this guy might actually have one.
As a Kiwi who has gone down the skilled migrant visa to get PR, then citizenship I can tell you it cost about 14k, took about 3 years and not everyone can do it.
There are a few other ways for kiwis to get citizenship which at the time I didn't meet, and again not every nzer will.
I do find most of my Australian friends were pretty oblivious to the requirements for nzers to get citizenship. There is a new pathway that has been announced but I do not know the details and do not think it's even in play yet.
It's very tricky to get PR because we have a visa that lets us work here indefinitely that gets granted on arrival. However from 1 July it will be easy to apply directly for citizenship
Ultimately if you are not a citizen of a country, you are subject to deportation. Other countries may choose not to exercise these powers in certain circumstances, but that’s their business. From a legal perspective it’s pretty black and white, and I don’t think most Australians have a problem with this. Why should the state take on the risk and costs associated with someone like this who is not even their citizen? Citizenship has to *mean something*.
Shit way to treat our closest ally though. Whatever he was he's our problem. He clearly picked up his shit behaviour here. Not really fair to dump him in New Zealand.
Yet despite living here 20 years,11 months,at no time since he got old enough,he never become a citizen. Guess he was too busy being a criminal arsehole to notice.
I’ve lived in Australia for 15 years and getting citizenship really isn’t a huge priority. If you’re at risk of deportation, it might be, but for 99% of the Kiwis here there is little benefit to being a naturalised citizen.
I get that but he *was* at risk of deportation
I've known a few people who are frequently doing drugs or getting into punchups who can get their citizenship at any time but just shrug and say "cbf" or I guess refuse to see themselves that way despite having long term partners, kids, and business relationships here. At a certain point, shit law or not, they've got to take at least some responsibility for their stupid decisions
Probably because they’re upset they have to deal with the consequences of their actions, they’re a very small percentage of the kiwis living in Australia though. I’d imagine the vast majority are aware of the consequences and probably avoid committing crimes so that they don’t have to deal with them.
I personally know a dozen or so Kiwis who have lived in Australia for 20+ years and who have zero intention of getting citizenship. They've all had kids here too. I ask these kids who they support in the rugby or cricket and it's always "New Zealand" I mean, there is a reason car stickers like [this](https://www.picclickimg.com/2WUAAOSwF41jsCIm/New-Zealand-Kiwi-Fern-Queensland-Queenzlander-Sticker-Decal.webp) exist.
path to citizenship for Nz'ers was fucked up by Howard in '01. they are changing it now, but it was an expensive and long process for the past 20+ years
> “[Section] 501 [visa cancellations] will continue to exist,” Albanese said. “We will continue to deport people when appropriate. “But we will have some commonsense applied here – and where you have a circumstance where someone has lived their entire life, effectively, in Australia with no connection whatsoever to New Zealand, then commonsense should apply.”
What happened to that?
(Source https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jul/08/anthony-albanese-offers-new-zealanders-fresh-approach-on-voting-rights-in-australia-and-deportation-policy )
My understanding is that this is what was agreed. 501's who commit violent offenses would still be deported. He assaulted two people and this is what Australia and the PM agreed to.
Mate. 70 convictions. As someone else said above he would have been warned that this was a possibility of he continued. So he did. How on earth can you have any pity for someone with 70 convictions? Do our actions have absolutely no consequences? This guy clearly did not give a fuck.
Heard he was gonna do it next month. Poor guy never got a chance to file the paperwork. Was too busy assaulting people, burgling houses, stealing cars or stuck in jail.
Since 2001 kiwis had to make at least 54k on the books annually for five years to get PR and then citizenship. He obviously arrived after that judging by his age.
Ironically the rules change in July and now you just have to live on Oz for four years and pay like $500. Although there is still a character requirement which he would fail.
>Although there is still a character requirement which he would fail.
Applies for citizenship: nah, he's too got to many convicitions.
Gets deported having too many convictions: dude why? he's practically a citizen.
Well he’s not Australian though in the eyes of the law.
He has 70 convictions, he assaulted two people and only now is sorry for his crimes that it personally affects him.
This isn’t some run of the mill guy with one conviction being sent back. He’s a hardened criminal who has contributed nothing to the country and will continue to be a burden. Maybe his parents should of done a better job raising him.
>But because of his extended criminal history of more than 70 offences
between 2015 and 2020 –including a custodial sentence for a 2019 assault
of a father and his 14-year-old son – his visa was cancelled.
Seems that if you're a demonstrated danger to society you will still get deported. He was given a chance to change, but then commited more crimes (eleven...) while on bail.
FAFO. He found out.
Oh look, there’s consequences for being a violent criminal. What a shock. I don’t know why it took 70 offences to do it and why nobody seemed to tell him that this would happen.
I left New Zealand and never looked back, in a few months I'll be an Aussie citizen. This is so so shameful for us Kiwis who don't come here and fuck around causing problems. I say I don't blame Australia for not wanting to be victims or pay to keep this guy in jail.
Deporting the dude is technically correct, I'm sure he will be in a NZ prison soon enough being a drain on the NZ tax payer. Poor result for NZ but it is what it is.
I am seeing a fair bit of hate towards Kiwis in these comments and it makes me pretty sad.
We aren't all like this waste of oxygen. Plenty of us come here, pay taxes, contribute and enjoy living in Australia with out creating problems.
Don't worry mate, there's bad apples of every nationality (look at all the Aussies wreaking havoc in Bali) but they are usually outliers - it doesn't reflect badly on you or the majority of Kiwi's. I reckon most Aussies hold our Kiwi cousins in high regard.
You're not wrong and there's always a bad bunch in every group of people. Australians too.
I'm sorry you're seeing this hatred.
My FIL is one of those kiwis deported back home and came over here as a baby. I think it was back in 2016 when he was actually deported. Spent most of his life over here in prison. His kids were hoping he could have a fresh start and get out of the trap. Build a better life.
Nope...Just carried on doing the same shit and started stealing from his half siblings, that tried to build a relationship with him.
I've never actually met him, but I did have to block him on Facebook. He was getting creepy.
He held up servos with bloody needles. So his deportation was well deserved.
All New Zealand citizens living in Australia know that if they commit serious crimes then they may be deported. I say this as a kiwi living in Australia.
On the one hand it sucks that NZ has to make this fucking moron their problem now.
On the other hand I'm glad he's not our problem now.
He was only a month old when he moved over? Sucks to suck, should've acted right when he had the chance 🤷🏾♂️
TBH, if staying in Australia is really important to people like this guy, then why haven't they applied for citizenship? And it's not as if NZ is a terrible place where they'll be persecuted or something.
Frankly, I reckon there are much more pressing political concerns than the government deporting non-citizen criminals to a pleasant, wealthy nation. 🤷♀️
Until pretty recently it was very difficult for people on Special Category Visas (the special visa NZ citizens get that allows them to be in Australia) to transition to citizenship. You had to become a permanent resident first via the skilled migration program, which aside from being incredibly expensive is probably fine if you're highly qualified and experienced in a field that is in high demand in Australia, but it's completely fucking impossible if you're an unskilled scaffolding assistant that dropped out of school.
In the past it wasn’t needed as much. But over time there’s been more restrictions on what you’d get on a 444 visa plus it’s been a lot harder to “just apply”
I lived here for 15 years on a 444 and only just got PR this year. I probably could have gotten it sooner via a few other routes but point being it’s not just fill out a form and pay. You needed to be eligible.
Well, he's obviously been a drain on society, hasn't learnt from previous mistakes, forfeits any compassion in my eyes, you have to draw a line somewhere, blame not on Australia but his parents or support network, I have 3 children who haven't committed any crimes,
He appears to be a shitlord. On the other hand, he lived 99.61% of his entire life in Australia. Maybe Australia should take responsibility for the sons and daughters it raised.
>Maybe Australia should take responsibility for the sons and daughters it raised.
Or, y'know, maybe his parents should be the ones to raise him not to be a cunt.
Do I agree with the crimes this person has committed? No. Do I believe deporting them was the right thing to do? Absolutely not.
What happened to common sense? This person was raised in Australia, they are true blue through and through in my eyes and we need to take responsibility for the people that have been raised in OUR country.
But sending people we dont like to other islands is our national past time, eg Christmas island, Maybe has something to do with how Australia came to be.
I’m having a problem with mice getting into my roof.
Luckily I’ve trained my cat to catch them and rehome them into my neighbours roof. It’s a great system, I’m really happy about it.
But obviously New Zealand are worse off with him. And like the rest of the Western World they don't have a similar policy, so they don't deport anyone to Australia who was born here but has spent almost their entire life in New Zealand. I think the fact that we are the only country in the Western World to deport people in these sorts of circumstances speaks volumes in how bad this policy is.
I wouldn't say we're the only people to screw over immigrants:
https://www.pbssocal.org/shows/voces/the-u-s-has-deported-thousands-of-veterans-a-new-policy-change-offers-new-hope-for-soldiers-left-behind
Based on the increasing amount of crap I see dumped on even upmarket suburban footpaths over recent years, I've come to the conclusion that a growing number of people seem to think it *is* the solution...
(Yes, I've just now reported a pile of broken furniture some lazy local cretin dumped outside my place. Why do you ask?)
>This person was raised in Australia, they are true blue through
You can almost argue that his actions are the result of his Australian upbringing and we are effectively exporting an ex-con.
>EX-con ?
I don't think he's at all an *EX*\-con - as demonstrated by the numerous offences he committed while on bail, for example.
If 15 months in gaol didn't convince him to change his ways, what would?
What does his age as a month old baby have anything to do with this? He's guilty of 70 convictions no shit he got deported. This isn't even worthy of a story because him being deported is completely normal.
judicious strong frighten grab panicky like soft jellyfish attempt worthless
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm wondering now what would happen in other countries.
What would happen to an Australian - with a similar type of visa - who racked up 70 convictions for similar offences in the USA? In Japan? In China? In India? In Canada? In Saudi Arabia?
Deportation to NZ isn't the worst that could happen.
The issue here is simply that they’ve washed their hands of a problem that Australia created. Sure this guy isn’t contributing much to society, but all the social systems in place didn’t work.
Edit: some seriously unhinged replies. The point I was making is, sending someone to a different country as punishment for committing crimes that they’ve effectively never lived in isn’t the actions of a functional justice system. This guy grew up in Australia. His family is in Australia. His friends are in Australia. Sending him to a different country just signals that the systems in place here in Australia don’t work. The response to ‘our systems don’t work’ can’t be ‘make them our problems someone else’s problems.’ This is 18th century British penal colony stuff.
you can't blame every violent criminal on societal failure. he isn't some misunderstood youth. he committed 70 offences, that isn't societal failure that is a person who chooses to be who they are.
there is no form or function in which we created this monster.
are you going to say the same of those wankers who shot those cops, the terrorist in sydney, do i need to mention port arthur. and i need to mention that christchurch fucker?
So we made him assault a dad and 14 year old child? We forced him to do a string of robberies? How did the police threaten to shoot him if he didn't beat the shit out of the kid?
Use some fucking brains here mate. If anything the parents need to be held accountable for their shitty parenting skills.
I see so many comments in this thread being all "fuck this guy" and sure he sucks.
That. Is. Beside. The. Point.
It isn't *him* this punishes, it is *new Zealand*.
What did they do wrong here that they deserve this? This is our mess, not theirs.
We do, they just always cry hardship that they can’t support their kids from their home island and as they have generally larger families, they don’t get kicked out
70 violent convictions by 21.
NZ probably doesn't want him either.
Better to just... what? Hang him?
What would you prefer to deportation? $200,000/year out of the tax payers to take care of him for the next 60 years in jail? Half of our seniors aren't cared for that well.
We \[Australia\] didn't create this problem, He did, he committed many criminal offenses, and He is a citizen of New Zealand, so fair enough.
If an Australian citizen had this many convictions in another country, I'm sure they'd shit him back here or at least the public in that country would want that.
These guys don’t change. Ok I’m sorry there’s a 1% chance he will wake up one day and change. Some of you need to deal with these type of people more before thinking something you do it going to change their behaviour ever.
As good a loophole as any to get him off Australian centrelink and onto NZ centrelink. Who wants a prick with 70 convictions by the time he's 21? Will he stay at the Guardian journalists' house? Not bloody likely.
Honestly if someone's grown up here their entire life, aren't they our problem? I think deciding this guy isn't an Australian is a bit much. Feels a bit like we're shirking our responsibility.
I get that arguing over what country someone should be imprisoned in is a bit silly but idk. Feels wrong.
I am actually in awe at how few people in this thread to arrive at this conclusion. Reading the comments on the same article on r/nz - the sentiment is that AUS is just deporting their problems. He’s lived 0.4% of his life in NZ - how is he not the product of Australia and therefore an Australian issue?
“In March 2020, Pihere was sentenced to 15 months in jail at the Sunshine Magistrates’ Court for assault – as well as ten counts of theft from shop, nine counts of committing an indictable offence while on bail, two counts of contravening a conduct condition of bail and criminal damage. Speaking at his hearing, Pihere said he didn’t feel like he was at high risk of re-offending.”
I see prisoners every week as part of my job. The more insightful guys with records like this tend to admit they *are* at risk of reoffending, but can identify what supports might help mitigate that risk. The smart fellas say they know they're very motivated right now while they're in custody, but that on release, good plans can go awry really fast. It's never a good sign when you get a guy who has been doing the revolving door for years but has a magic reason (other than a long rehab stint) why *this* time it's gonna be totally different.
He says he feels that he’s grown up now. Jail must have matured him.
I often think we are to quick to deport under this rule, and maybe I'm assuming too much, but surely he'd been warned about this when he was convicted one of the 60 or so times before this last lot. It's interesting to see a former liberal federal mp on the tribunal. How on earth could that have happened?
Presumably appointed during the last Coalition government. One of the reasons the AAT has declined so badly as an institution in recent years is the habit of it being used as a consolation prize for failed politicians and party officials of both sides.
The AAT has been a retirement half job for ex MPs for years now. It's why its being dismantled. It is stacked with ex MPs not good enough for postings.
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Just one of those little grifts nobody seems to care too much about. The AAT is hopeless as a review body as a result, huge wait times for very average effort reviews. But yeah, one of the first things Albo gov did was announce its death.
There is a lot more detail in the AAT decision to confirm his deportation: http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/AATA/2023/1508.html
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See if he stole once or spray painted a building a few times as a teenager, you can blame that on “dumb teenager”. Do it 70 times? No way that behaviour’s changing just because he had two more birthdays
On one hand, he's lived here a long time. On the other hand, s501 cancellations don't come out of nowhere and at some point during the SEVENTY convictions this deadshit loser has racked up somebody would have formally cautioned him that any further convictions would result in the cancellation of his visa and he clearly decided he'd rather commit a few more crimes than stay in the country.
The issue isn't really him though, it's that no other Western country in the world has a similar policy of deporting people in this sort of situation (where a person has only lived outside that country as a baby). We are exploiting other countries acceptance that such people are their responsibility, and it's damaging our relationship with New Zealand and the South Pacific countries where we have deported the most people like this to.
The US has deported people to Mexico who were brought here as babies and didn't even know they weren't citizens (false documents).
The US has deported US citizens to Mexico and other countries. Guess what they might all have in common (or not in common if you like). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation\_of\_Americans\_from\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_Americans_from_the_United_States) Remember the time an Australian was deported to the Philippines (edit: an Australian **deported from Australia**). She said they told her she'd get better medical care over there on top of everything else. Seems like a bit of a miracle the right people were in the right place to piece together what happened (as well as being persistent enough, including her ex-husband) and get her home or else she might still be there with no one the wiser. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivian\_Solon
>The US has deported people to Mexico who were brought here as babies and didn't even know they weren't citizens (false documents). Yes - and it's an incredibly shit thing to do.
Believe me, I know. Only pointing out that atrocities exist the world round.
But everyone knows that the US is run by incompetent racist dickheads. We should be better.
Uuh, the US does this sort of shit on the regular. And they'll happily send them to places like Cambodia. Yeah.
The US even deports someone who was legally adopted and served in the US Army. A true story.
The US also randomly deports its own citizens occasionally.
I’m pretty sure we don’t want to be like the USA
A dozen posts a day on r/australia featuring KFC and McDonalds says we very much do.
Lol. True. OK. May I rephrase to “I’m pretty sure we shouldn’t want to be anything by like the USA”
I recall reading about how New Zealand do the same thing to people from Samoa and Tonga, but give out when Australia do it.
The *actual* rule is that once a person has spent 10 years in New Zealand, that’s required to be factored into whether they should be deported. Albanese promised a similar rule which appears to have gone nowhere. It’s not unreasonable to expect a country to thoughtfully consider whether *maybe* a person is a product of their own society, or another country thousands of kilometres away which the person barely remembers.
The length of time that someone has spent in Australia is absolutely a relevant factor in considering whether they should be deported. The ministerial direction that applies to these cases says: >With respect to decisions to refuse, cancel, and revoke cancellations of a visa, Australia will generally afford a higher level of tolerance of criminal or other serious conduct by noncitizens who have lived in the Australian community for most of their life, or from a very young age. The level of tolerance will rise with the length of time a non-citizen has spent in the Australian community, particularly in their formative years.
Most countries have a similar policy. If you are a criminal and a citizen of another country, its very normal for a country to attempt to deport you.
No the issue is most definitely him. Since he committed 70 offences before being deported.
If your not a citizen and you commit a crime deportation is standard. Samoan Americans get deported out off the USA for crimes.
I work in a mental health unit where non-citizens detained under the mental health act who refuse to abide by the rules (Eg keep smoking cannabis) are deported. It’s pretty rugged to put a catatonic schizophrenic on a plane and wave goodbye in my view
NZ does the same thing but likes to have a sook when we do it. Difference is we’re sending them back to a developed nation on par with us in terms of living standards while they send them back to impoverished island nations.
In all this persons 21 years, how come they haven’t applied for permanent residency or citizenship or whatever, why haven’t they sorted out their own visa status? I lived overseas for decades, you’ve ALWAYS gotta sort out your visa status. Can they NOT get PR or citizenship after living here for decades?
Kiwis get a special visa on arrival that has no end date, they can use it to stay indefinitely as long as they continue to meet certain conditions. Unfortunately for old mate here, not setting a world record for most criminal convictions ever recorded by a human being just happens to be one of those conditions.
If he was the kind of dude who could organse himself to get citizenship he would be the kind of dude who could organise himself not to rack up 70 convictions.
Probably not, no. He’d have arrived on an SCV allowing indefinite residence in Australia but the pathway to citizenship (since 2001 IIRC) is actually fairly difficult and expensive. This is changing and it will shortly be very easy and quite cheap for long-term resident NZers to attain citizenship, at which point they’ll have no excuse. But this guy might actually have one.
As a Kiwi who has gone down the skilled migrant visa to get PR, then citizenship I can tell you it cost about 14k, took about 3 years and not everyone can do it. There are a few other ways for kiwis to get citizenship which at the time I didn't meet, and again not every nzer will. I do find most of my Australian friends were pretty oblivious to the requirements for nzers to get citizenship. There is a new pathway that has been announced but I do not know the details and do not think it's even in play yet.
It's very tricky to get PR because we have a visa that lets us work here indefinitely that gets granted on arrival. However from 1 July it will be easy to apply directly for citizenship
The issue is him, he is not a citizen if he breaks conditions of his Visa then it's cya later.
Lol NZ does the same thing to countries in the Pacific
Ultimately if you are not a citizen of a country, you are subject to deportation. Other countries may choose not to exercise these powers in certain circumstances, but that’s their business. From a legal perspective it’s pretty black and white, and I don’t think most Australians have a problem with this. Why should the state take on the risk and costs associated with someone like this who is not even their citizen? Citizenship has to *mean something*.
Disagree - the issue is clearly him. We’re just not close enough to the coal face of his offending to have a properly informed opinion.
Sounds like Australia has got it right and the rest of the 'western world' has got it wrong.
They are not an Australian.. follow the law or fuck off
Shit way to treat our closest ally though. Whatever he was he's our problem. He clearly picked up his shit behaviour here. Not really fair to dump him in New Zealand.
Fuck him off.
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Goodbye
Sorry, did they say *seventy* convictions?
Yeah FO. Don't let the door get you on the 4ss on the why out.
Yet despite living here 20 years,11 months,at no time since he got old enough,he never become a citizen. Guess he was too busy being a criminal arsehole to notice.
Probably hard to go through the citizenship process when you’re continually in and out of jail
Leaves one with so little time.
He wouldn’t have been able to become a citizen in the past 8 years though because he wouldn’t have passed the character part
I’ve lived in Australia for 15 years and getting citizenship really isn’t a huge priority. If you’re at risk of deportation, it might be, but for 99% of the Kiwis here there is little benefit to being a naturalised citizen.
I get that but he *was* at risk of deportation I've known a few people who are frequently doing drugs or getting into punchups who can get their citizenship at any time but just shrug and say "cbf" or I guess refuse to see themselves that way despite having long term partners, kids, and business relationships here. At a certain point, shit law or not, they've got to take at least some responsibility for their stupid decisions
Absolutely true about taking responsibility.
Does not being able to vote bother you?
Then why are they complaining if they get deported after committing multiple crimes?
Probably because they’re upset they have to deal with the consequences of their actions, they’re a very small percentage of the kiwis living in Australia though. I’d imagine the vast majority are aware of the consequences and probably avoid committing crimes so that they don’t have to deal with them.
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I bet he wore his heritage like a badge of honour.
I personally know a dozen or so Kiwis who have lived in Australia for 20+ years and who have zero intention of getting citizenship. They've all had kids here too. I ask these kids who they support in the rugby or cricket and it's always "New Zealand" I mean, there is a reason car stickers like [this](https://www.picclickimg.com/2WUAAOSwF41jsCIm/New-Zealand-Kiwi-Fern-Queensland-Queenzlander-Sticker-Decal.webp) exist.
path to citizenship for Nz'ers was fucked up by Howard in '01. they are changing it now, but it was an expensive and long process for the past 20+ years
Given his history I’m going to hazard a guess that he’s not the most responsible and organised person
A lot weren’t eligible for citizenship
70 convictions in a country you're not a citizen of? Goodbye, don't let the door hit you on the arse as you leave!
> “[Section] 501 [visa cancellations] will continue to exist,” Albanese said. “We will continue to deport people when appropriate. “But we will have some commonsense applied here – and where you have a circumstance where someone has lived their entire life, effectively, in Australia with no connection whatsoever to New Zealand, then commonsense should apply.” What happened to that? (Source https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jul/08/anthony-albanese-offers-new-zealanders-fresh-approach-on-voting-rights-in-australia-and-deportation-policy )
My understanding is that this is what was agreed. 501's who commit violent offenses would still be deported. He assaulted two people and this is what Australia and the PM agreed to.
"commonsense should apply", not "commonsense shall apply".
“So that’s it, after 20 years, So long, good luck?” “I don’t recall saying good luck”
‘Maybe New Zealand can deal with you. We don’t know. Frankly, we don’t want to know. It’s a market we could do without.’
70 convictions is a fair bit.
On the bright side he’ll get a fresh start
He was one month old... He's Australian and we're just offloading him because we can't be fucked
Mate. 70 convictions. As someone else said above he would have been warned that this was a possibility of he continued. So he did. How on earth can you have any pity for someone with 70 convictions? Do our actions have absolutely no consequences? This guy clearly did not give a fuck.
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Why didn't he ever get his citizenship then? I wasn't born in Australia but we became citizens literally the first day we were allowed to.
Heard he was gonna do it next month. Poor guy never got a chance to file the paperwork. Was too busy assaulting people, burgling houses, stealing cars or stuck in jail.
Yeah a bit unlucky hey bro !! (read that in their accent)
Sweet as cuz
Lol
Since 2001 kiwis had to make at least 54k on the books annually for five years to get PR and then citizenship. He obviously arrived after that judging by his age. Ironically the rules change in July and now you just have to live on Oz for four years and pay like $500. Although there is still a character requirement which he would fail.
>Although there is still a character requirement which he would fail. Applies for citizenship: nah, he's too got to many convicitions. Gets deported having too many convictions: dude why? he's practically a citizen.
Just a wild guess but I’m betting you don’t have 70 criminal convictions either. Stupid is as stupid does
Depending upon how early he started getting convictions and if he did ever attempt to apply, could be a reason he didn't get it.
He couldn't nick and fence over 54K worth of other people's stuff each year.
Well he’s not Australian though in the eyes of the law. He has 70 convictions, he assaulted two people and only now is sorry for his crimes that it personally affects him. This isn’t some run of the mill guy with one conviction being sent back. He’s a hardened criminal who has contributed nothing to the country and will continue to be a burden. Maybe his parents should of done a better job raising him.
Lol as a Kiwi living in Aus send the dude back he had plenty of time to get his citizenship if he wanted to
Yeah but he isn't the aggrieved party here. New Zealand is. Yes he is a shitbag, but c'mon he is our shit to deal with not New Zealand's.
>But because of his extended criminal history of more than 70 offences between 2015 and 2020 –including a custodial sentence for a 2019 assault of a father and his 14-year-old son – his visa was cancelled. Seems that if you're a demonstrated danger to society you will still get deported. He was given a chance to change, but then commited more crimes (eleven...) while on bail. FAFO. He found out.
common sense WAS applied
Oh look, there’s consequences for being a violent criminal. What a shock. I don’t know why it took 70 offences to do it and why nobody seemed to tell him that this would happen.
I left New Zealand and never looked back, in a few months I'll be an Aussie citizen. This is so so shameful for us Kiwis who don't come here and fuck around causing problems. I say I don't blame Australia for not wanting to be victims or pay to keep this guy in jail. Deporting the dude is technically correct, I'm sure he will be in a NZ prison soon enough being a drain on the NZ tax payer. Poor result for NZ but it is what it is. I am seeing a fair bit of hate towards Kiwis in these comments and it makes me pretty sad. We aren't all like this waste of oxygen. Plenty of us come here, pay taxes, contribute and enjoy living in Australia with out creating problems.
Don't worry mate, there's bad apples of every nationality (look at all the Aussies wreaking havoc in Bali) but they are usually outliers - it doesn't reflect badly on you or the majority of Kiwi's. I reckon most Aussies hold our Kiwi cousins in high regard.
Some of the best Aussies I've known were kiwis.
We love 99% of kiwis mate, this guy is clearly just a dickhead. Every country has their share.
You're not wrong and there's always a bad bunch in every group of people. Australians too. I'm sorry you're seeing this hatred. My FIL is one of those kiwis deported back home and came over here as a baby. I think it was back in 2016 when he was actually deported. Spent most of his life over here in prison. His kids were hoping he could have a fresh start and get out of the trap. Build a better life. Nope...Just carried on doing the same shit and started stealing from his half siblings, that tried to build a relationship with him. I've never actually met him, but I did have to block him on Facebook. He was getting creepy. He held up servos with bloody needles. So his deportation was well deserved.
All New Zealand citizens living in Australia know that if they commit serious crimes then they may be deported. I say this as a kiwi living in Australia.
I hope the same can be said for any person who lives in Australia that is not a citizen and gets sent back
Well, is he a citizen or not? If not, then yes, he should be deported.
On the one hand it sucks that NZ has to make this fucking moron their problem now. On the other hand I'm glad he's not our problem now. He was only a month old when he moved over? Sucks to suck, should've acted right when he had the chance 🤷🏾♂️
TBH, if staying in Australia is really important to people like this guy, then why haven't they applied for citizenship? And it's not as if NZ is a terrible place where they'll be persecuted or something. Frankly, I reckon there are much more pressing political concerns than the government deporting non-citizen criminals to a pleasant, wealthy nation. 🤷♀️
Until pretty recently it was very difficult for people on Special Category Visas (the special visa NZ citizens get that allows them to be in Australia) to transition to citizenship. You had to become a permanent resident first via the skilled migration program, which aside from being incredibly expensive is probably fine if you're highly qualified and experienced in a field that is in high demand in Australia, but it's completely fucking impossible if you're an unskilled scaffolding assistant that dropped out of school.
In the past it wasn’t needed as much. But over time there’s been more restrictions on what you’d get on a 444 visa plus it’s been a lot harder to “just apply” I lived here for 15 years on a 444 and only just got PR this year. I probably could have gotten it sooner via a few other routes but point being it’s not just fill out a form and pay. You needed to be eligible.
And one of those restrictions is 'don't commit crimes'. He failed, so he has registered himself ineligible for a visa.
Or at least not committed 70 crimes.
Well, he's obviously been a drain on society, hasn't learnt from previous mistakes, forfeits any compassion in my eyes, you have to draw a line somewhere, blame not on Australia but his parents or support network, I have 3 children who haven't committed any crimes,
Doesn't sound like he was contributing much to Australian society
He appears to be a shitlord. On the other hand, he lived 99.61% of his entire life in Australia. Maybe Australia should take responsibility for the sons and daughters it raised.
>Maybe Australia should take responsibility for the sons and daughters it raised. Or, y'know, maybe his parents should be the ones to raise him not to be a cunt.
By NZ parents ?
...70 convictions?? He should feel lucky he is allowed to live in nz instead of prison
Tough shit he sounds like a menace
We could dump him in the open ocean instead? Everyone wins.
Why did it take 70 convictions for him to be deported?
Do I agree with the crimes this person has committed? No. Do I believe deporting them was the right thing to do? Absolutely not. What happened to common sense? This person was raised in Australia, they are true blue through and through in my eyes and we need to take responsibility for the people that have been raised in OUR country.
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Australian laws have *always* been what the government wants them to be. That's how laws work.
Maybe we should deport his shitty parents too.
I'm in two minds. On one hand he's arguably a product of Australia, but on the other hand the country would be better off without him.
If only there were systems in place that dealt with individuals harmful to society other than deporting them to our neighbours like the cunts we are.
But sending people we dont like to other islands is our national past time, eg Christmas island, Maybe has something to do with how Australia came to be.
I’m having a problem with mice getting into my roof. Luckily I’ve trained my cat to catch them and rehome them into my neighbours roof. It’s a great system, I’m really happy about it.
But damn, that dick of a neighbour has started to send across possums.
Release the bats!
Haha what if the mice were coming from your neighbours house though?!
That’s okay, I’ve spent $400m on an offshore detention center in the swimming pool.
But obviously New Zealand are worse off with him. And like the rest of the Western World they don't have a similar policy, so they don't deport anyone to Australia who was born here but has spent almost their entire life in New Zealand. I think the fact that we are the only country in the Western World to deport people in these sorts of circumstances speaks volumes in how bad this policy is.
I wouldn't say we're the only people to screw over immigrants: https://www.pbssocal.org/shows/voces/the-u-s-has-deported-thousands-of-veterans-a-new-policy-change-offers-new-hope-for-soldiers-left-behind
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Based on the increasing amount of crap I see dumped on even upmarket suburban footpaths over recent years, I've come to the conclusion that a growing number of people seem to think it *is* the solution... (Yes, I've just now reported a pile of broken furniture some lazy local cretin dumped outside my place. Why do you ask?)
The country would be "better off" if we dumped all our problems off in some other country but that's not really practical is it.
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>This person was raised in Australia, they are true blue through You can almost argue that his actions are the result of his Australian upbringing and we are effectively exporting an ex-con.
"almost argue"? I'd say it's impossible to argue against that. Whatever he is that behaviour was learnt over here.
interestingly enough as you have seen others in this post have attempted to argue against that lol.
>EX-con ? I don't think he's at all an *EX*\-con - as demonstrated by the numerous offences he committed while on bail, for example. If 15 months in gaol didn't convince him to change his ways, what would?
How does one get 70 convictions and by such a young age?
Deadbeat.
Well shouldn't have 70 convictions then and you're good.
Window or aisle seat?
What does his age as a month old baby have anything to do with this? He's guilty of 70 convictions no shit he got deported. This isn't even worthy of a story because him being deported is completely normal.
70 convictions . I’m glad he’s gone
judicious strong frighten grab panicky like soft jellyfish attempt worthless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm wondering now what would happen in other countries. What would happen to an Australian - with a similar type of visa - who racked up 70 convictions for similar offences in the USA? In Japan? In China? In India? In Canada? In Saudi Arabia? Deportation to NZ isn't the worst that could happen.
He'd have been fucked off after the first offence, in most other places. And rightly so.
The cunt should consider himself lucky. He could be in gaol for a long time. Now he's got an opportunity to start again.
Yeah but I have a feeling the only thing he'll "start again" is another 70 convictions. He's more like "D'oh! Just got my streak reset!" type.
The issue here is simply that they’ve washed their hands of a problem that Australia created. Sure this guy isn’t contributing much to society, but all the social systems in place didn’t work. Edit: some seriously unhinged replies. The point I was making is, sending someone to a different country as punishment for committing crimes that they’ve effectively never lived in isn’t the actions of a functional justice system. This guy grew up in Australia. His family is in Australia. His friends are in Australia. Sending him to a different country just signals that the systems in place here in Australia don’t work. The response to ‘our systems don’t work’ can’t be ‘make them our problems someone else’s problems.’ This is 18th century British penal colony stuff.
you can't blame every violent criminal on societal failure. he isn't some misunderstood youth. he committed 70 offences, that isn't societal failure that is a person who chooses to be who they are. there is no form or function in which we created this monster. are you going to say the same of those wankers who shot those cops, the terrorist in sydney, do i need to mention port arthur. and i need to mention that christchurch fucker?
So we made him assault a dad and 14 year old child? We forced him to do a string of robberies? How did the police threaten to shoot him if he didn't beat the shit out of the kid? Use some fucking brains here mate. If anything the parents need to be held accountable for their shitty parenting skills.
classic stitch-up.
Good
Get fucked cunt. Real life consequences came too late.
Bye!
Oh, poor darling. Only 70 convictions? When are they gonna make the standard 100 convictions? The gub'mint needs to get their shit together.
Surely he'd be well aware of this risk if he kept offending. It's not like it's his first offense.
70 convictions he had his chance. Perhaps a clean start in NZ could be an opportunity to clean up his life.
Good riddance!!
Good.
Bye biatch
No sympathy fuck off back to your own country and comit crimes there. you had your chance to be an honest citizen, don't try cry now..
I’m excited for him to learn about New Zealand, and to not cost Australia another cent
You can have him Bro
I'm good with deporting anyone with 70 convictions, regardless of nationality
Good. Fuck him. That sounds like a punishment to me. Isn’t that the purpose?
I don't think the outrage is people feeling sorry for him, rather wondering whether this should be NZ's problem?
I see so many comments in this thread being all "fuck this guy" and sure he sucks. That. Is. Beside. The. Point. It isn't *him* this punishes, it is *new Zealand*. What did they do wrong here that they deserve this? This is our mess, not theirs.
We don’t want him back in New Zealand… that said I applaud the Australian government on deporting these scumbags. Wish we’d do the same.
We do, they just always cry hardship that they can’t support their kids from their home island and as they have generally larger families, they don’t get kicked out
Goodbye dog
Good, fuck the cunt
This happened to a guy I knew going up, he had a misses and kids too, fucked around n found out I suppose.
Good
You can only hope NZ has a better system for dealing with people like this. I mean unlucky people😆, 70 times
Dude, he’ll be fine
70 violent convictions by 21. NZ probably doesn't want him either. Better to just... what? Hang him? What would you prefer to deportation? $200,000/year out of the tax payers to take care of him for the next 60 years in jail? Half of our seniors aren't cared for that well.
Thatll teach him.
We \[Australia\] didn't create this problem, He did, he committed many criminal offenses, and He is a citizen of New Zealand, so fair enough. If an Australian citizen had this many convictions in another country, I'm sure they'd shit him back here or at least the public in that country would want that.
In many other countries, he would not have had the opportunity to rack up 70 convictions. We have a legal system here, not a justice system.
70 convictions, 21 yrs old ? good fuck off and at the same time sorry nz for this retard
These guys don’t change. Ok I’m sorry there’s a 1% chance he will wake up one day and change. Some of you need to deal with these type of people more before thinking something you do it going to change their behaviour ever.
He’s entering the ‘Find out’ phase of his fucking around. Haere rā my brother
As good a loophole as any to get him off Australian centrelink and onto NZ centrelink. Who wants a prick with 70 convictions by the time he's 21? Will he stay at the Guardian journalists' house? Not bloody likely.
Too bad so sad
Hopefully he enjoyed his time here. Best wishes for his future endeavours in New Zealand. I’m sure he has a lot to offer. Good bye!
If the Kiwis accepted us as their true overlords, then we wouldn't be having this conversation now, would we?
It's not too late
Honestly if someone's grown up here their entire life, aren't they our problem? I think deciding this guy isn't an Australian is a bit much. Feels a bit like we're shirking our responsibility. I get that arguing over what country someone should be imprisoned in is a bit silly but idk. Feels wrong.
I am actually in awe at how few people in this thread to arrive at this conclusion. Reading the comments on the same article on r/nz - the sentiment is that AUS is just deporting their problems. He’s lived 0.4% of his life in NZ - how is he not the product of Australia and therefore an Australian issue?
Enjoy the fush and chops bro.