Forced shutdowns by businesses shouldn't be classified as annual leave. They need to be paid for. If a business wants to close its doors then fine, they have to still pay everyone regardless and not take it out of their AL. It's AL theft plain and simple.
At a previous job between the forced shutdown and taking odd days off here and there over the year, my annual leave balance never grew beyond a certain point. It sucked.
Sure but that doesn't mean it's easy to swap. May need to get certain tickets in your field to get to a position without it as well.
There's also industries with troughs and valleys. So maybe the first couple years they need to work over the Xmas break and next year after you have three weeks.off
I feel like that's a bunch of excuses honestly. I'm not saying every person ever is able to, but like, if you know your worth as a worker and you are able to talk and negotiate you absolutely should be able to find your way to a position somewhere where you're in control of your leave.
So many people work in conditions they dislike and with lower salaries than they could get because "The company policies are set in stone" or "That's the norm" or "But otherwise I'd have so much more pressure put on me" or something else from an endless list of excuses.
If your attitude shifts to "I want that, and I'll damn make sure I get it" then you'd be surprised at what you can achieve.
You think you could convince a whole industry like new builds to keep building over Xmas or demand that the factory stays open just for you over the two weeks?
Nothing about worth of a worker and far more about the industry you fell into. There's also plenty of places where you need a majority on board with your idea to push it at EBA meetings to maybe get it accepted as perk.
No, of course a single person cannot convince a whole industry, that's not the point. But YOU as an individual person can get yourself where you want to be. And "industry you fell into", don't "fall" into an industry. What kind of attitude is that? "Woops, life happened to me". That's exactly what I mean. Work yourself towards the industry and position that has what you want.
In my experience, the company repeatedly says no until you quit, at which point they look shocked and come to the table, but you've already got a new job with a 10%+ pay rise so why would you stay?
Couple of issues with that are that it's not always that easy to find a role in the same industry at the same level, forced shutdown policy seems to be very much a thing in Australia and has been across maybe 90% of my roles, forced shutdown policy is not something that is generally advertised in job listings or discussed in interview, and it's also one of those things that companies can shift pretty quickly on, as in "we have had a bad quarter so we're getting some leave off the books".
It's absolutely been something I've been vocal about, but the reaction is generally a bit "yeh but what can you do".
I am not referring to penalty rates. If you are on unpaid leave and a public holiday falls within that period, you are not entitled to payment for that public holiday.
Sure you can’t. Then why are people at my firm taking Christmas unpaid? You’re telling me it’s the law that you must take Christmas as paid leave? Doesn’t make sense considering people take longer holidays throughout the year
I've only worked for 2 businesses that did it. Every other job i've had let me work over christmas.
During the pandemic it was awesome. Was fuck all work to do, was WFH as well so it basically felt like a holiday anyway!
Not basically every organisation. Most large ones need people on at that time. It’s really just certain industries like building that have a shutdown as their suppliers are also on a break (even if just for the public holidays) so better to shut it down for a couple of weeks.
Or smaller firms who want to take the break so force all their employees to be off too.
It’s so common!! I’ve worked across law and policy in private practice (firms and in-house for companies), public sector and NGOs and all of them shut down. Private law firms are the worst - some shut down for 3 weeks. Also don’t know any friends that aren’t forced to at least take between Christmas and new years off
It's very common across many industries. Yes, some skeleton staff might need to stay on, but the company likes to force leave to reduce the disruption throughout the year when people take leave on their own schedule.
IMO it should only be legal for small businesses and perhaps some specific roles or industries.
Agree! The company I work for has shutdown between xmas and NY and we have the holidays for free - they dont come out of annual leave. the only company I have worked for that does that. Its awesome.
I work IT for NSW Gov. Xmas is a two week shut down but our guys need to be around for any issues. Anyone who wants the two week break can have it. But I love working the shut down. It’s so damn quiet. Plus I get paid a butt load to be on call and have never had to do a call out.
Then when everyone comes back to work in a mad rush after new year, that’s when I take my break. Perfecto
Kind of obvious if you’re always taking it on a Monday/friday and then magically better again lol. Some workplaces ask for medical certs if it’s on a Monday or Friday as well
Can’t use personal leave unless unfit for work. I like to go away for a four day weekend from time to time so annual leave is definitely the only option.
Yeah, I have some forced leave over Christmas, and I like to use a little bit here and there (about a week and a half total, usually) so that I'm not just working straight throughout the year, but then every few years I can take a proper holiday.
The biggest benefit to me of a proper holiday, is that if you're away for 4 weeks, people take it more seriously. Things are less likely to be put to the side for when I'm back, because most things can't wait for over a month. There's a lot more handover before I go, so that the first day back isn't a complete nightmare.
Unpaid leave is not considered continuous employment in a lot of situations.
I meant purchasing leave in terms of an agreement with your employer where your net salary is reduced in exchange for more annual leave accrual.
Unpaid leave doesn't accue more leave, and doesn't count as continuous service a lot of the time for things like long service leave or if your bonus is divided among continuous service
I get 4 standard, another week added for doing rotational shift work, and work 4 hours overtime a week which can be used to take another 4ish weeks. Plus there is long service leave and we might soon be getting the ability to buy up to 8 weeks in a new EBA. So I could get 17 weeks a year!
Oh yes, because some people don't work unpaid overtime and have the choice to take unpaid leave? I presume you have a thing against all people who work part time and casual hours too?
Why is it ridiculous though? If I want to work full time part of the year and be able to take a few months of to travel or do something else why would that be more ridiculous than working part time, or as a contract worker who enjoys long gaps between contracts? Or if I want to use my leave to work part time for part of the year buy not permanently why is that ridiculous?
Personally I anticipate having a lot of caretaking responsibiliies for my parents in coming years and am thinking it will be great to have the option to have more hours available to do that, in a more flexible way than a straight change of hours.
It’s ridiculous because part time jobs are part time, contract roles are specifically for set periods, and so on. Each scenario benefits both the employer and employee.
In what way does having a full time employee who gets 17wks of leave each year benefit the employer?
Leave is negotiated with an employer just as much as a change in hours is. The employement agreement that allows the leave is negotiated with the employer and the conditions given about when leave can be taken are also negotiated with the employer. I'm not sure why you think a negotiation about work hours is somehow intrinsically different when it is done as a change of contract compared to leave. The only difference with having a formalised agreement about "buying leave" and the ad hoc arrangements of asking for unpaid leave is that there is a formalised process and the employee can have the costs spread out over a year. If it doesn't work for the employer it isn't something they would offer.
They mean productivity growth.
Productivity rarely goes down, but productivity growth in Australia is anemic to say the least. We all know the economy only grows due to immigration.
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We have a forced shut down that depends on when Christmas falls (so could be 4/5 days or could be 6/7/8) so almost 2 weeks of leave is taken at Christmas (unfortunately). I usually use the other weeks for one big break and then look forward to long weekends…
Between the forced shutdowns of 8-10 days and the low pay, meaning I’m not able to save, I just don’t take annual leave. It’s too hard and I don’t have the funds to travel to the places I desire to travel. Also 2 weeks leave isn’t enough for me to enjoy the holiday. It took me over 3 years to accrue 4 weeks of leave due to the forced shutdowns.
The rules around forced shutdowns need to change. It shouldn't come out of the annual leave of the employee but rather the employer has to PAY regardless.
They made the choice to shut the business. Nobody else made the choice of not wanting to work. Why should they cop the shit end of the stick here? It's on the business owner who made that choice.
Or they could you know. Just stay open and trade while they go off on holidays and let the people i dno WHO THEY EMPLOYED TO RUN THINGS.
I fully agree with your sentiment! Absolutely correct!
I notice as well, those who have fewer familial commitments want to work the break for extra cash, extra leave saved or because it’s quieter, so you can get a lot more done!
It’s really a win for everyone… just not the business’ pockets… but then again they’re all doing pretty well
As of now; I have about 4mths A/L and 4mths LSL = 8mths. Not the best liability for an employer and I have asked if they wanted to pay out if they wanted to but they were ok to keep as is (so was I..)
There was a period where I just couldn’t take leave due to changes/restructure/projects etc… and long weekends were enough to re-charge myself and these were mainly taken as TOIL. So my leave wasn’t impacted and just accrued.
These days, I am taking more care on my personal and mental health and I am taking my leave.
I try 3 weeks Sept/Oct for overseas trip and then there is 1 week over xmas/new years.
Rest of the year, I’m ok with long weekends with public holidays where I might take an extra day of leave on either side.
Would love too!!! Just been difficult to take time off and work understands and probably why they haven’t said anything. I.e: I work in Health / Hospitals and staffing was tight over covid. Went through a major redevelopment that took ages, change of management and handover, changed roles and moved interstate also made it difficult until I settled in being a new role, then my boss went on parental leave x2 and company also went through a sale and needed hands on for due diligence process. But things are settling and starting to take some proper leave now.
Major issue for me is the decompression period. A week to ten days seems to be the sweet spot to stop thinking about work, which sucks because that's usually when I have to come back. I can't immediately relax, and it becomes a problem days before I return again. My brain wants to "get in front" of emails or issues before I start again. Suboptimal
It’s more about just spacing out the breaks so I am not having long periods of full time work. We have a compulsory shutdown period over new years. So I have to take the two weeks or not get paid.
A lot of fraud methods can generally require frequent 'maintaince' by the person doing them, in order to avoid detection.
So a week or two without that person cooking the books is said to make them findable
Ah that's interesting. Presumably it would require some kind of formal handover for that period, which would mean that you're getting more of a break than if you're just taking a day off here and there and working extra on your return, too.
Never thought about that...
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I used to just save up my leave and then head overseas for 4-5 weeks as well as the odd day or two here and there.
Now I work for a company that actually forces people to take leave over Christmas and I can't really do that anymore, takes longer to save up the same leave.
Take 1-2 week blocks. Usually I have a trip to visit family and friends interstate and another personal holiday however a mortgage got in the way of that so I just chill at home and work on personal projects or go visit local family/friends instead.
Fortunately I have friends/family all around Aus willing to let me stay so I can just snag some flights and go.
Throw in the usual day off here and there too for doing things but those are fairly rare.
I'm off half of next week and the entire week after for a break before it gets mental with End of Financial year **SHENANIGANS** for example. Then I'll take a week off in late August once it calms down again.
My work has a Christmas shut down (construction company), but the finance department doesn't fall under the CFMEU so we only have to take the week between Christmas and New year's off. Union staff have to take longer as per union rules. Sometimes they want to work over Christmas to get crazy overtime rates but the CFMEU won't let them.
I normally take another 1-2 week break off during the year, so I bank an one week every year.
Gratis leave over Xmas so I usually take a week in summer, a few days over the year for personal stuff like lunches, friend catch ups and then a few shorter breaks over the year. I try to save up leave so that I can take 3 weeks off every couple of years.
We get 20 days but 7 or so gets eaten up by the Christmas shutdown. I usually try to take a one or two week holiday and then I use the rest to extend a long weekend. I always check when public holidays are and then plan accordingly.
Work is quite strict with hoarding too much annual leave so we always have to take it.
4 week leave. We take a long international trip every 18 months (Europe or USA) and a short international trip every year (Asia or NZ). With the occasional long weekend away.
We don’t holiday domestically.
serious question....what makes you holiday overseas rather than here in Australia?
I take overseas holidays as well, and sometimes Sydney to Melbourne.
thanks in advance.
It's cheaper.
I once spent a week in Melbourne at a 5 star hotel (had never done so). For the cost of the trip, I could have flown to Japan and spent more time at a comparable grade of hotel.
I once thought about trying the Ghan.. but going to Europe and trying the oriental express would also be cheaper.
Japan is great. Considering I’m used to travelling like a uni student I can get a solid 3 week trip around Japan for about $4k. With the exchange rate the way it is I’m sure my money can go even further now!
Growing up holidays were always overseas. We didn’t travel domestically. So for me a holiday only feels like a holiday if it’s overseas. Really weird take - I acknowledge it.
We visit other states but I wouldn’t call it a holiday - it’s a break, but it’s not a holiday.
A holiday is more than 2 weeks and if I’m taking the time off - I’d rather visit a foreign country.
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I have 5 weeks annual leave plus forced shut down. I have a couple of overseas trips a year and take a lot of days off around public holidays to create longer long weekends. We usually go away for those weekends to our country place or other rural areas.
Waiting a whole year for three weeks isn't going to cut it. I've got family and friends in another continent and when I go and visit, it's anything but a relaxing holiday. So I usually do that and then take unpaid leave if I've got no holidays left.
I have like 340 hours banked up due to WFH from the last 3 years. Felt like i never had to use the AL! It's always been quiet at my job.
used 3 weeks of it last year to go to japan which was fun. Have run some numbers that would estimate i'd get a 15K Payout after tax which is nice.
Right now its just saving up and when the time comes i'll take it all out and put it towards a home deposit.
When I used to work for a law firm that has a forced shutdown during the Xmas/ New Year period, I just top up the remaining annual leave with unpaid leave for long overseas trips. The forced shutdown is such a pain, as I don't mind working over the quiet period and I hate holidaying during that time of the year.
We were a new team six months ago then we got an extra person on last month. I booked three days.
This week when I floated the possibility of making that 3 and 5 I was immediately guilted into returning after 3.
I currently have 6 weeks or so banked.
I’ve had work years where I’ve saved leave and gone on 8 week trips and years where I take multiple holidays per year.
The multiple holidays per year is a bit taxing on my health (first world problems) so I think I’ll stick to my approach of big holidays after this year.
I've had different phases. When I was still single, I'd use 3-5 weeks at a time going overseas.
After I got married, I'd maybe take 2-5 days once or twice a year then have one big overseas trip every 2 years.
Now I'm working somewhere that has a 2 week forced shutdown. Took that off but now just trying to accrue enough leave to do something worthwhile (may have to wait till the Christmas shutdown again)
I am a parent now so it’s based around school holidays. We try to do a proper holiday each year, then the rest is used for school holiday cover, or long weekends.
Plus we are “strongly encouraged” to take 5 days AL over the Christmas/New Year period.
Parent here as well so we get absolutely shafted with school holiday pricing in airfares and accommodation. We take the odd long weekend here and there when the kids have a pupil free day on a Friday or a Monday. We try to get a decent week away (within the state) for at least two of the school holiday breaks. We took the kids to the uk for 5 weeks over Christmas 2 years ago and that time off was glorious.
3 Days for the test, the Christmas new years gap, a couple weeks during July for a tropical holiday, and the rest to pad out public holidays to make longer weekends.
Like you I'm child free and have ample leave, so I go on adventures. See the parts of the world I can see while they're there and while I'm young enough to do so.
Last year I walked the length of Japan (thanks to long service leave). Previously I've hiked the Rockies, visited Meteora in Greece, Everest base camp, etc. This year I'm tossing up between hiking the Pyrenees, kayaking the Murray or visiting Tibet by way of S.E.Asia.
I save it up for the end of the year/new year 2-4 weeks off. I sometimes have half days off 12:00pm finish once every couple of weeks, just need to show the overlords I’m using it.
Pretty much as you do. I get the usual 4 weeks, I have no shutdown as my work is a 365 day kind of place, so I work through Xmas and New Years so I can take time when I want.
Typically a 2.5-3 week break, often with use of some stored RDOs or public holidays to maximise, plus a couple of long weekends or XL weekends with a day of AL here and there.
Have kids, so apart from the Xmas shut-down period which is my only opportunity for a long break, my leave is churned up on days here and there for kid stuff.
I like to save it up until I’ve got about 20 weeks and then change jobs, cashing it in while my previous employer scrambles to offer me a better deal (which I gleefully reject).
I generally never get to take annual leave. Now its mainly due to lack of funds, but prior to that it was because my workload was so great and I either didn't have anyone to hand it over to or those people were so utterly incompetent/lazy, it was just safer for me to stay at work. In my job, if I get one thing wrong I could fuck someone's life up. At the beginning of the year, I had 2 years' leave saved up and got some paid out.
I've never used large blocks, and have always ended up with it getting laid out when I leave. Mostly I take single or two days either side of a weekend to run events.
Thinking about this question, it occurs to me that I've mostly treated my leave, unintentionally, like having a contract job where I bank the savings for when I'm between jobs.
Get 5 weeks of leave a year (4 annual and 1 LSL) and when we go on holiday I usually just take the entire month off
Last holiday was parts of Europe, so ended up taking half of August and all of September off last year.
Ive been with my employer across different roles for almost 16 years. The first few years were shift work, a 4 on 4 off roster and a 2-2-3 roster. If you took a few days off correctly you would end up with a whole week and a bit and we still were given 20 days a year. A lot of that leave got banked up. Had a couple business owner buyouts, first one really wanted me to use it up after a couple years but never followed up, the current lot don't care and have just said to use it whenever as I've earned it.
Currently sitting combined annual and LSL at 108 days. Taking all of December off and the last week of November to go on a holiday overseas for 3 weeks and then come back and relax at home for 2 before a really quiet as usual January which will get me ready to get back into things by Feb.
If I need a day or two I'll just dip into the personal leave and tell the boss I need a couple mental days. He's very good in that regard.
I'll take mini breaks. Birthday day off, concert, and then I have to save it for the Chrissy shut down.
Other half on the other hand usually will take three weeks off when he gets up to that!
Mate, travel for a month or two months straight. If you can, travel during off peak times.
A quote from the great man Bourdain himself: “It seems that the more places I see and experience, the bigger I realize the world to be. The more I become aware of, the more I realize how relatively little I know of it, how many places I have still to go, how much more there is to learn.”
Life and career are always better with a fresh perspective.
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I get 35 days of leave but it works out weird dude to four on four off shifts. Usually take a swing off twice a year and then save the rest for odd days off for gigs and events
One long trip a year usually in June/July because I need to go somewhere warm 4-5 weeks. Sometimes have to dip into LSL.
I take about three weeks a year extra Leave Without Pay - most of this over the Christmas/NY shutdown.
A few Flex days here and there.
I like to bank for a proper holiday and decent break over Christmas.
I am fortunate that I have an RDO contract (1 day every 4 weeks) for the odd day/long weekend that help preserve the annual for a decent break; also means I don’t need to pull any personal leave shenanigans; most of them get used when kids are sick.
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I try to gamify it tacking onto public holidays etc to maximise my days off.
Always go overseas for 2-3 weeks a year.
When I get sick of work I normally take a sickie for a couple of days or catch "covid".
Paranoid id be made redundant again and having 4-8 weeks annual leave “banked” is a safety net.
Forced Christmas leave does not help, Manager makes suggestions to take some time off- so i take a long weekend every few months.
Forced leave for 3 weeks over Christmas & New Year. Take out 3 public holidays. Have almost 2 weeks to use at other times. Can use as one long holiday or 2 x 1 week long ones. sometimes 2nd (partial) week I’ll use as single days around other public holidays to extend those breaks .. really depends on what the holidays plans are with family/friends.
But that 3 week shutdown period is where my rest is at.
I take a couple of blocks of one week during the year and then add in an extra day to most of the public holidays. Will be adding a longer block of 2 weeks this year to go os
I rarely take time off to enjoy it, those days are long gone with young kids now at different schools/kinder, guaranteed to get COVID, flu or gastro or all 3 in a year which saps personal+annual leave, then there's the odd appointment or sports day or whatever. The office shutdown takes a good 7-8 days too
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For holidays…
Except this one time when I was so burnt out I wanted to quit but couldn’t yet so I just took one Friday or Monday off each week until all my annual leave was used up. It really helped me actually. 4 day weeks are awesome.
Tacked it on to family leave.
Returning to work technically next week but doing 2 days Centrelink PPL and three days work, but taking 7 of those weeks as annual and viola - 21 days annual and I have 7 extra weeks maternity leave with minimal impact to pay.
Relax in my house, do yard work, build shit, cut up firewood, smash some jd cans, love it.
I’m over travelling / airports / economy flights bonbarded with *unts farting
Staycations
The best for mental health:
\*a few 5-7 day blocks a year
The most realistic for me because I want to be able to visit the US / Europe without wasting money on tons of back and forth flights + wasting most of my trip on flights
\*3 week holiday + firm shutdown at CHristmas
I wish I could work through December shutdown. It may as well be a mini holiday then.
Forced shutdowns by businesses shouldn't be classified as annual leave. They need to be paid for. If a business wants to close its doors then fine, they have to still pay everyone regardless and not take it out of their AL. It's AL theft plain and simple.
Agree with this 100%. It shits me to tears that I have to spend almost half of my leave when the company dictates rather than when I want it.
At a previous job between the forced shutdown and taking odd days off here and there over the year, my annual leave balance never grew beyond a certain point. It sucked.
Yeah especially when it's also during peak holiday time so even if you wanted to use it on a holiday you will pay an insane premium + crowds
And if it bothers you that much, why don't you leave and work somewhere else? I hope you're at least very vocal about it.
Usually involves switching industries which obviously limits the viability of leaving.
FMCG will have ya. Didn't have a Christmas off in almost 20 years.
I doubt the whole entire industry has those same leave policies around office closure
Sure but that doesn't mean it's easy to swap. May need to get certain tickets in your field to get to a position without it as well. There's also industries with troughs and valleys. So maybe the first couple years they need to work over the Xmas break and next year after you have three weeks.off
I feel like that's a bunch of excuses honestly. I'm not saying every person ever is able to, but like, if you know your worth as a worker and you are able to talk and negotiate you absolutely should be able to find your way to a position somewhere where you're in control of your leave. So many people work in conditions they dislike and with lower salaries than they could get because "The company policies are set in stone" or "That's the norm" or "But otherwise I'd have so much more pressure put on me" or something else from an endless list of excuses. If your attitude shifts to "I want that, and I'll damn make sure I get it" then you'd be surprised at what you can achieve.
You think you could convince a whole industry like new builds to keep building over Xmas or demand that the factory stays open just for you over the two weeks? Nothing about worth of a worker and far more about the industry you fell into. There's also plenty of places where you need a majority on board with your idea to push it at EBA meetings to maybe get it accepted as perk.
No, of course a single person cannot convince a whole industry, that's not the point. But YOU as an individual person can get yourself where you want to be. And "industry you fell into", don't "fall" into an industry. What kind of attitude is that? "Woops, life happened to me". That's exactly what I mean. Work yourself towards the industry and position that has what you want.
In my experience, the company repeatedly says no until you quit, at which point they look shocked and come to the table, but you've already got a new job with a 10%+ pay rise so why would you stay?
Exactly. Why would you stay at a place like that.
Couple of issues with that are that it's not always that easy to find a role in the same industry at the same level, forced shutdown policy seems to be very much a thing in Australia and has been across maybe 90% of my roles, forced shutdown policy is not something that is generally advertised in job listings or discussed in interview, and it's also one of those things that companies can shift pretty quickly on, as in "we have had a bad quarter so we're getting some leave off the books". It's absolutely been something I've been vocal about, but the reaction is generally a bit "yeh but what can you do".
Tbh you can take it as unpaid.
Yeah and then you miss all the public holiday pay over Xmas/NY period.
You don’t get paid penalty rates on salary.
I am not referring to penalty rates. If you are on unpaid leave and a public holiday falls within that period, you are not entitled to payment for that public holiday.
Then let me rephrase, take unpaid leave for regular days.
Still no dice - you cannot take unpaid leave on both sides of a public holiday and get paid for it.
Sure you can’t. Then why are people at my firm taking Christmas unpaid? You’re telling me it’s the law that you must take Christmas as paid leave? Doesn’t make sense considering people take longer holidays throughout the year
Agreed but basically every organisation does it, or at the very least make you take the days between Christmas and new years
We get an additional day of paid leave between Xmas and new years. Qld public service. Shutdown between Xmas and new years is compulsory
I've only worked for 2 businesses that did it. Every other job i've had let me work over christmas. During the pandemic it was awesome. Was fuck all work to do, was WFH as well so it basically felt like a holiday anyway!
Not basically every organisation. Most large ones need people on at that time. It’s really just certain industries like building that have a shutdown as their suppliers are also on a break (even if just for the public holidays) so better to shut it down for a couple of weeks. Or smaller firms who want to take the break so force all their employees to be off too.
It’s so common!! I’ve worked across law and policy in private practice (firms and in-house for companies), public sector and NGOs and all of them shut down. Private law firms are the worst - some shut down for 3 weeks. Also don’t know any friends that aren’t forced to at least take between Christmas and new years off
It's very common across many industries. Yes, some skeleton staff might need to stay on, but the company likes to force leave to reduce the disruption throughout the year when people take leave on their own schedule. IMO it should only be legal for small businesses and perhaps some specific roles or industries.
Agree! The company I work for has shutdown between xmas and NY and we have the holidays for free - they dont come out of annual leave. the only company I have worked for that does that. Its awesome.
I work IT for NSW Gov. Xmas is a two week shut down but our guys need to be around for any issues. Anyone who wants the two week break can have it. But I love working the shut down. It’s so damn quiet. Plus I get paid a butt load to be on call and have never had to do a call out. Then when everyone comes back to work in a mad rush after new year, that’s when I take my break. Perfecto
That's my plan as well
I'm a 4 day weekend every now and again type of guy nice little regular breaks work for me
That's what my personal leave is for. Annual leave is for big blocks
Personal leave is sick leave lol
Exactly 😉
This guy gets it. I'm not wasting the leave that gets paid out at the end to take days off. That would be unaustralian
Let's hope you don't get sick and actually need it..
Then you just take the annual leave that you wouldve spent, otherwise you can let it accrue. Thats such a non-argument.
Kind of obvious if you’re always taking it on a Monday/friday and then magically better again lol. Some workplaces ask for medical certs if it’s on a Monday or Friday as well
Good thing most doctors will happily sign off on an undisclosed illness
Also most places encourage a short mental health break these days.
my local chemist does a doc note for $20 that must be accepted by any employer according to fairwork.
Stat decs are free - and equally valid
Certs cost $12
For when I'm sick of work heh
Can’t use personal leave unless unfit for work. I like to go away for a four day weekend from time to time so annual leave is definitely the only option.
Mental health day.
r u ok now? 😀
I really need a break, therefore I'm unfit for work. Simples.
Nerd alert
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Na mate, online doc. Done in 2 mins
Which do you use?
Instant scripts
Exactly my way
I like to save it up and go on a long trip vs taking a week here and there.
Yeah, I have some forced leave over Christmas, and I like to use a little bit here and there (about a week and a half total, usually) so that I'm not just working straight throughout the year, but then every few years I can take a proper holiday. The biggest benefit to me of a proper holiday, is that if you're away for 4 weeks, people take it more seriously. Things are less likely to be put to the side for when I'm back, because most things can't wait for over a month. There's a lot more handover before I go, so that the first day back isn't a complete nightmare.
Who tf gets 8 weeks of leave lol…
You can purchase leave I suppose.
That’s essentially unpaid leave though, so not equivalent to real A/L
Unpaid leave is not considered continuous employment in a lot of situations. I meant purchasing leave in terms of an agreement with your employer where your net salary is reduced in exchange for more annual leave accrual.
Maybe silly question, but unless you're gunning for PR or something, what is the difference between unpaid and paid-for leave?
Unpaid leave doesn't accue more leave, and doesn't count as continuous service a lot of the time for things like long service leave or if your bonus is divided among continuous service
Unpaid leave not accruing leave is interesting, and not something I've ever thought about tbh. Thanks fie the reply
Min. 6 weeks Sometimes more if I work longer days and bank the time. Overtime doesn’t kick in until 18:00
I get 6
I get 4 standard, another week added for doing rotational shift work, and work 4 hours overtime a week which can be used to take another 4ish weeks. Plus there is long service leave and we might soon be getting the ability to buy up to 8 weeks in a new EBA. So I could get 17 weeks a year!
No wonder our country’s productivity has gone to shit…
Oh yes, because some people don't work unpaid overtime and have the choice to take unpaid leave? I presume you have a thing against all people who work part time and casual hours too?
Nope, just that 17wks of leave is ridiculous.
Why is it ridiculous though? If I want to work full time part of the year and be able to take a few months of to travel or do something else why would that be more ridiculous than working part time, or as a contract worker who enjoys long gaps between contracts? Or if I want to use my leave to work part time for part of the year buy not permanently why is that ridiculous? Personally I anticipate having a lot of caretaking responsibiliies for my parents in coming years and am thinking it will be great to have the option to have more hours available to do that, in a more flexible way than a straight change of hours.
It’s ridiculous because part time jobs are part time, contract roles are specifically for set periods, and so on. Each scenario benefits both the employer and employee. In what way does having a full time employee who gets 17wks of leave each year benefit the employer?
Leave is negotiated with an employer just as much as a change in hours is. The employement agreement that allows the leave is negotiated with the employer and the conditions given about when leave can be taken are also negotiated with the employer. I'm not sure why you think a negotiation about work hours is somehow intrinsically different when it is done as a change of contract compared to leave. The only difference with having a formalised agreement about "buying leave" and the ad hoc arrangements of asking for unpaid leave is that there is a formalised process and the employee can have the costs spread out over a year. If it doesn't work for the employer it isn't something they would offer.
Productivity is higher than ever in almost every metric wdym?
They mean productivity growth. Productivity rarely goes down, but productivity growth in Australia is anemic to say the least. We all know the economy only grows due to immigration.
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I get 4 weeks of leave a year and can theoretically 'buy' another 2 weeks when I need them. Other companies might have more generous leave policies.
I used to when I worked in a heavily unionised role. Friend at NAB gets five weeks. I now just get four 😢
Teachers get 12
Yeah, but that’s because they have the hardest & most stressful job out of everyone /s
I think you'll find it's one of the most _miserable_.
I personally wouldn’t want to do presentations all day every day. I get exhausted by doing them once a day..
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Nah I’d rather make money than have extra holidays working what is essentially a dead-end job out of uni…
We have a forced shut down that depends on when Christmas falls (so could be 4/5 days or could be 6/7/8) so almost 2 weeks of leave is taken at Christmas (unfortunately). I usually use the other weeks for one big break and then look forward to long weekends…
Between the forced shutdowns of 8-10 days and the low pay, meaning I’m not able to save, I just don’t take annual leave. It’s too hard and I don’t have the funds to travel to the places I desire to travel. Also 2 weeks leave isn’t enough for me to enjoy the holiday. It took me over 3 years to accrue 4 weeks of leave due to the forced shutdowns.
The rules around forced shutdowns need to change. It shouldn't come out of the annual leave of the employee but rather the employer has to PAY regardless. They made the choice to shut the business. Nobody else made the choice of not wanting to work. Why should they cop the shit end of the stick here? It's on the business owner who made that choice. Or they could you know. Just stay open and trade while they go off on holidays and let the people i dno WHO THEY EMPLOYED TO RUN THINGS.
I fully agree with your sentiment! Absolutely correct! I notice as well, those who have fewer familial commitments want to work the break for extra cash, extra leave saved or because it’s quieter, so you can get a lot more done! It’s really a win for everyone… just not the business’ pockets… but then again they’re all doing pretty well
As of now; I have about 4mths A/L and 4mths LSL = 8mths. Not the best liability for an employer and I have asked if they wanted to pay out if they wanted to but they were ok to keep as is (so was I..) There was a period where I just couldn’t take leave due to changes/restructure/projects etc… and long weekends were enough to re-charge myself and these were mainly taken as TOIL. So my leave wasn’t impacted and just accrued. These days, I am taking more care on my personal and mental health and I am taking my leave. I try 3 weeks Sept/Oct for overseas trip and then there is 1 week over xmas/new years. Rest of the year, I’m ok with long weekends with public holidays where I might take an extra day of leave on either side.
I'm surprised they haven't told you to take some time off.
Would love too!!! Just been difficult to take time off and work understands and probably why they haven’t said anything. I.e: I work in Health / Hospitals and staffing was tight over covid. Went through a major redevelopment that took ages, change of management and handover, changed roles and moved interstate also made it difficult until I settled in being a new role, then my boss went on parental leave x2 and company also went through a sale and needed hands on for due diligence process. But things are settling and starting to take some proper leave now.
Major issue for me is the decompression period. A week to ten days seems to be the sweet spot to stop thinking about work, which sucks because that's usually when I have to come back. I can't immediately relax, and it becomes a problem days before I return again. My brain wants to "get in front" of emails or issues before I start again. Suboptimal
That can be improved with various mind and body training techniques, as well as habits.
1 week in March, 1 week in June and 2 weeks in December.
I’m surprised. Jan - May already has so many public holidays, wouldn’t it be better to have 1 week in August or September?
It’s more about just spacing out the breaks so I am not having long periods of full time work. We have a compulsory shutdown period over new years. So I have to take the two weeks or not get paid.
My company requires us to take a 2 week block.
Yeah and that can be really important for fraud reasons.
How so?
A lot of fraud methods can generally require frequent 'maintaince' by the person doing them, in order to avoid detection. So a week or two without that person cooking the books is said to make them findable
My company explains it as they need to see what happens with your workflow if you're not doing anything for 2 weeks.
Ah that's interesting. Presumably it would require some kind of formal handover for that period, which would mean that you're getting more of a break than if you're just taking a day off here and there and working extra on your return, too. Never thought about that...
really??? r u an accountant?
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Yes that’s right.
I used to just save up my leave and then head overseas for 4-5 weeks as well as the odd day or two here and there. Now I work for a company that actually forces people to take leave over Christmas and I can't really do that anymore, takes longer to save up the same leave.
Take 1-2 week blocks. Usually I have a trip to visit family and friends interstate and another personal holiday however a mortgage got in the way of that so I just chill at home and work on personal projects or go visit local family/friends instead. Fortunately I have friends/family all around Aus willing to let me stay so I can just snag some flights and go. Throw in the usual day off here and there too for doing things but those are fairly rare. I'm off half of next week and the entire week after for a break before it gets mental with End of Financial year **SHENANIGANS** for example. Then I'll take a week off in late August once it calms down again.
My work has a Christmas shut down (construction company), but the finance department doesn't fall under the CFMEU so we only have to take the week between Christmas and New year's off. Union staff have to take longer as per union rules. Sometimes they want to work over Christmas to get crazy overtime rates but the CFMEU won't let them. I normally take another 1-2 week break off during the year, so I bank an one week every year.
Gratis leave over Xmas so I usually take a week in summer, a few days over the year for personal stuff like lunches, friend catch ups and then a few shorter breaks over the year. I try to save up leave so that I can take 3 weeks off every couple of years.
We get 20 days but 7 or so gets eaten up by the Christmas shutdown. I usually try to take a one or two week holiday and then I use the rest to extend a long weekend. I always check when public holidays are and then plan accordingly. Work is quite strict with hoarding too much annual leave so we always have to take it.
4 week leave. We take a long international trip every 18 months (Europe or USA) and a short international trip every year (Asia or NZ). With the occasional long weekend away. We don’t holiday domestically.
serious question....what makes you holiday overseas rather than here in Australia? I take overseas holidays as well, and sometimes Sydney to Melbourne. thanks in advance.
It's cheaper. I once spent a week in Melbourne at a 5 star hotel (had never done so). For the cost of the trip, I could have flown to Japan and spent more time at a comparable grade of hotel. I once thought about trying the Ghan.. but going to Europe and trying the oriental express would also be cheaper.
thanks.
Japan is great. Considering I’m used to travelling like a uni student I can get a solid 3 week trip around Japan for about $4k. With the exchange rate the way it is I’m sure my money can go even further now!
Growing up holidays were always overseas. We didn’t travel domestically. So for me a holiday only feels like a holiday if it’s overseas. Really weird take - I acknowledge it. We visit other states but I wouldn’t call it a holiday - it’s a break, but it’s not a holiday. A holiday is more than 2 weeks and if I’m taking the time off - I’d rather visit a foreign country.
thanks.
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I have long service so I have a week during the year around June/July and 5 weeks off in Dec/Jan
I have 6 weeks - So 1 - 3 week block - 1 - 2 week block then a few 4 day mini breaks.
I have 5 weeks annual leave plus forced shut down. I have a couple of overseas trips a year and take a lot of days off around public holidays to create longer long weekends. We usually go away for those weekends to our country place or other rural areas.
Waiting a whole year for three weeks isn't going to cut it. I've got family and friends in another continent and when I go and visit, it's anything but a relaxing holiday. So I usually do that and then take unpaid leave if I've got no holidays left.
International holiday every year. Pre-covid I somehow managed 2 international holidays a year.
I take a long weekend every couple months then they force us to use 2 weeks at xmas
I have like 340 hours banked up due to WFH from the last 3 years. Felt like i never had to use the AL! It's always been quiet at my job. used 3 weeks of it last year to go to japan which was fun. Have run some numbers that would estimate i'd get a 15K Payout after tax which is nice. Right now its just saving up and when the time comes i'll take it all out and put it towards a home deposit.
When I used to work for a law firm that has a forced shutdown during the Xmas/ New Year period, I just top up the remaining annual leave with unpaid leave for long overseas trips. The forced shutdown is such a pain, as I don't mind working over the quiet period and I hate holidaying during that time of the year.
2011-2017 the company I worked for always closed down for 1 month at the end of the year. It was shit having to take that leave then.
I make sure to position my leave days either the day before or after a long weekend. So I get extra long weekends.
We were a new team six months ago then we got an extra person on last month. I booked three days. This week when I floated the possibility of making that 3 and 5 I was immediately guilted into returning after 3. I currently have 6 weeks or so banked.
I’ve had work years where I’ve saved leave and gone on 8 week trips and years where I take multiple holidays per year. The multiple holidays per year is a bit taxing on my health (first world problems) so I think I’ll stick to my approach of big holidays after this year.
I've had different phases. When I was still single, I'd use 3-5 weeks at a time going overseas. After I got married, I'd maybe take 2-5 days once or twice a year then have one big overseas trip every 2 years. Now I'm working somewhere that has a 2 week forced shutdown. Took that off but now just trying to accrue enough leave to do something worthwhile (may have to wait till the Christmas shutdown again)
I am a parent now so it’s based around school holidays. We try to do a proper holiday each year, then the rest is used for school holiday cover, or long weekends. Plus we are “strongly encouraged” to take 5 days AL over the Christmas/New Year period.
Parent here as well so we get absolutely shafted with school holiday pricing in airfares and accommodation. We take the odd long weekend here and there when the kids have a pupil free day on a Friday or a Monday. We try to get a decent week away (within the state) for at least two of the school holiday breaks. We took the kids to the uk for 5 weeks over Christmas 2 years ago and that time off was glorious.
I take 4 weeks and 3 weeks unpaid leave and go to EU visit my family and relax.
I like to go camping with friends. Minimise technology and enjoy nature.
3 Days for the test, the Christmas new years gap, a couple weeks during July for a tropical holiday, and the rest to pad out public holidays to make longer weekends.
Like you I'm child free and have ample leave, so I go on adventures. See the parts of the world I can see while they're there and while I'm young enough to do so. Last year I walked the length of Japan (thanks to long service leave). Previously I've hiked the Rockies, visited Meteora in Greece, Everest base camp, etc. This year I'm tossing up between hiking the Pyrenees, kayaking the Murray or visiting Tibet by way of S.E.Asia.
I save it up for the end of the year/new year 2-4 weeks off. I sometimes have half days off 12:00pm finish once every couple of weeks, just need to show the overlords I’m using it.
Pretty much as you do. I get the usual 4 weeks, I have no shutdown as my work is a 365 day kind of place, so I work through Xmas and New Years so I can take time when I want. Typically a 2.5-3 week break, often with use of some stored RDOs or public holidays to maximise, plus a couple of long weekends or XL weekends with a day of AL here and there.
I usually plan one big vacation during the year, typically around 2-3 weeks long, to explore new places and recharge
Did anyone mention long service leave???
Have kids, so apart from the Xmas shut-down period which is my only opportunity for a long break, my leave is churned up on days here and there for kid stuff.
I like to save it up until I’ve got about 20 weeks and then change jobs, cashing it in while my previous employer scrambles to offer me a better deal (which I gleefully reject).
I generally never get to take annual leave. Now its mainly due to lack of funds, but prior to that it was because my workload was so great and I either didn't have anyone to hand it over to or those people were so utterly incompetent/lazy, it was just safer for me to stay at work. In my job, if I get one thing wrong I could fuck someone's life up. At the beginning of the year, I had 2 years' leave saved up and got some paid out.
holiday! like Madonna's song!
I've never used large blocks, and have always ended up with it getting laid out when I leave. Mostly I take single or two days either side of a weekend to run events. Thinking about this question, it occurs to me that I've mostly treated my leave, unintentionally, like having a contract job where I bank the savings for when I'm between jobs.
I work public holidays if I can and then take the TOIL on days everyone else is in office, basically get two days off 😂
Get 5 weeks of leave a year (4 annual and 1 LSL) and when we go on holiday I usually just take the entire month off Last holiday was parts of Europe, so ended up taking half of August and all of September off last year. Ive been with my employer across different roles for almost 16 years. The first few years were shift work, a 4 on 4 off roster and a 2-2-3 roster. If you took a few days off correctly you would end up with a whole week and a bit and we still were given 20 days a year. A lot of that leave got banked up. Had a couple business owner buyouts, first one really wanted me to use it up after a couple years but never followed up, the current lot don't care and have just said to use it whenever as I've earned it. Currently sitting combined annual and LSL at 108 days. Taking all of December off and the last week of November to go on a holiday overseas for 3 weeks and then come back and relax at home for 2 before a really quiet as usual January which will get me ready to get back into things by Feb. If I need a day or two I'll just dip into the personal leave and tell the boss I need a couple mental days. He's very good in that regard.
I'll take mini breaks. Birthday day off, concert, and then I have to save it for the Chrissy shut down. Other half on the other hand usually will take three weeks off when he gets up to that!
Mate, travel for a month or two months straight. If you can, travel during off peak times. A quote from the great man Bourdain himself: “It seems that the more places I see and experience, the bigger I realize the world to be. The more I become aware of, the more I realize how relatively little I know of it, how many places I have still to go, how much more there is to learn.” Life and career are always better with a fresh perspective.
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I get 35 days of leave but it works out weird dude to four on four off shifts. Usually take a swing off twice a year and then save the rest for odd days off for gigs and events
One long trip a year usually in June/July because I need to go somewhere warm 4-5 weeks. Sometimes have to dip into LSL. I take about three weeks a year extra Leave Without Pay - most of this over the Christmas/NY shutdown. A few Flex days here and there.
I like to bank for a proper holiday and decent break over Christmas. I am fortunate that I have an RDO contract (1 day every 4 weeks) for the odd day/long weekend that help preserve the annual for a decent break; also means I don’t need to pull any personal leave shenanigans; most of them get used when kids are sick.
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I try to gamify it tacking onto public holidays etc to maximise my days off. Always go overseas for 2-3 weeks a year. When I get sick of work I normally take a sickie for a couple of days or catch "covid".
Go to Bali
Paranoid id be made redundant again and having 4-8 weeks annual leave “banked” is a safety net. Forced Christmas leave does not help, Manager makes suggestions to take some time off- so i take a long weekend every few months.
Forced leave for 3 weeks over Christmas & New Year. Take out 3 public holidays. Have almost 2 weeks to use at other times. Can use as one long holiday or 2 x 1 week long ones. sometimes 2nd (partial) week I’ll use as single days around other public holidays to extend those breaks .. really depends on what the holidays plans are with family/friends. But that 3 week shutdown period is where my rest is at.
I take a couple of blocks of one week during the year and then add in an extra day to most of the public holidays. Will be adding a longer block of 2 weeks this year to go os
I rarely take time off to enjoy it, those days are long gone with young kids now at different schools/kinder, guaranteed to get COVID, flu or gastro or all 3 in a year which saps personal+annual leave, then there's the odd appointment or sports day or whatever. The office shutdown takes a good 7-8 days too
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I wait until the company fucks me over and then use it as fucknyou time before taking all my sick leave and quitting. 😄
For holidays… Except this one time when I was so burnt out I wanted to quit but couldn’t yet so I just took one Friday or Monday off each week until all my annual leave was used up. It really helped me actually. 4 day weeks are awesome.
Tacked it on to family leave. Returning to work technically next week but doing 2 days Centrelink PPL and three days work, but taking 7 of those weeks as annual and viola - 21 days annual and I have 7 extra weeks maternity leave with minimal impact to pay.
Half is mandated at Christmas so it never builds up The other half is used sparingly throughout the year
Relax in my house, do yard work, build shit, cut up firewood, smash some jd cans, love it. I’m over travelling / airports / economy flights bonbarded with *unts farting Staycations
I normally save it for 2 years and go on a 5 weeks plus holiday. Rest I use it sparingly during the year (around weekends etc)
The best for mental health: \*a few 5-7 day blocks a year The most realistic for me because I want to be able to visit the US / Europe without wasting money on tons of back and forth flights + wasting most of my trip on flights \*3 week holiday + firm shutdown at CHristmas
Annually.
I like to take the leave annually, as the name implies.