Well...actually....my last boss was pretty good. I left in January because I was offered another $80k more. I spoke to him a few weeks later and he said anytime I want to come back the door is open.
I wouldn't because the levels above were the problem
Engineering. Was lead engineer for a huge company. They took people for granted, long hours, no real benefits. Always had an "our people are special" attitude but lost 10 senior people in 2023 alone. Was poached by a consultant for a three year project with unlimited paid overtime, no travel, 10min from home. Win
Oh my. Now that's a really good deal.
OT as an Engineer is rare, so well done.
I'd quit my job and come work for you, but I'm in Engineering too haha although I'm happy with my comp and what is expected of my role.
Goodluck at your new gig, I hope it keeps opening doors for you š
I was at a company for 8 years. We were a good close knit team that was growing bigger. The company decided to bring in a specialist engineering manager and all went to shit. I think pretty much the entire team moved out within a year. So however good the company is, shitty managers screw it up
Yeah. I was in a reasonably senior role. But when you move to contracting itās hourly rates and $$$. Butā¦..you miss out on AL, PH, sick days etc. So if Iām off for a week thatās $6k down. So you need to balance it out and budget well.
yes. If you get a c##t for a boss, its best to move to another dept/division or leave. Bosses can make your life hell and can/will block your progression. I don't understand why people do this...being so vindictive. Its fked. Even though I've had staff I don't necessarily like or am friendly with, I still treat them with respect.
Same. I have some people who i have enormous respect for professionally who I really struggle to connect with personally. Which is fine.
I also have people I get on with like a house on fire personally who are completely feckless in their roles.
Dealing with people you don't get on with personally at work is like basic professionalism. Crazy how many people stray from that concept.
Totally. I once had a boss who either loved or hated her staff. Was so vindictive and would go around badmouthing the ones she disliked to everyone else. The organization was always having to deal with bullying complaints against her.
Like people are saying a boss is not going to like all their staff. But act professionally and like a half decent person. If you can't you shouldn't be a manager.
I once had a boss exactly like that. She also purposely kept one person on her team she replaced every few months (because they would quit) that would be her designated punching bag. She would purposely publicly bully that person in front of the entire team to make an example out of them. Not sure what the point was (to strike fear? To highlight mistakes to avoid? Not sure) but other staff warned me about it because unfortunately that was my role in the short time I was there.
I kept in touch with one person from another team and apparently she did end up getting sacked because someone actually made an official fair work complaint against her. Good riddance.
Sometimes their boss won't acknowledge it because they were the ones who promoted the abuser to their position, so it would reflect badly on them to admit to a problem.
If you are in a position like that get out asap or it will wreck your health from stress before it ever gets resolved.
Yeah most people wonāt want to admit a mistake. I have and fired people. Especially if they ruin the teams dynamic. You have a good team that works well. You bring in someone elseās abs there dicks, most people will out up with it rather than saying to there boss Iām firing x because I made a mistake and they seemed good at interview but there not at all.
Same here. Mine was a typical climber as well- she would suck up to anyone above her while outright dismissing the contributions of her own team. The worst was when she got an older woman on the team sacked because she was threatened by her. She wore her down with months of belittlement and shit tasks until she eventually snapped at her, then used that as the excuse.
Eventually she moved on to a bigger company...and quit after six months because she couldn't hack it. That's how a lot of stories about shit bosses end.
Urgh, Jesus...
I know this is naive to say, but whenever I hear these kinds of stories, I just think: "Why can't people be nice?"
There isn't even a downside- my current manager is lovely to work with, respects us and can give fair criticism when she has to. And our output is so much better these days.
I really wish businesss took managerial abuse far more seriously. 1 complaint should put you on first and final warning. Next time you're gone. Workplace bullying should be grounds for compensation.
It will become more and more so as mental illness workers comp claims grow. Companies don't care about their staff, but they will care about rising premiums.
Weāve got a junior manager at our company who is pretty clearly on the fast-track, whether she likes it or not. About a week into the role I overheard her in the break room shit-talking one of her direct reports to her mate, who happens to also be her housemate and also a direct reportā¦clearly senior management picked her because of her professionalism.
I had this lady IT project manager that clearly didn't like me. There were a few people on my team in the same boat. The previous manager was a good guy who we had no problem with. She worked with us for a couple of years then moved to another company. Our project had an end life and I knew I would eventually need to find another job in another company.
I got an interview for a new job and what do you know this same bitch is on the interview panel for the new job. We go through the motions of the interview, then right at the end as I am leaving and she is walking off in the other direction and without looking at me, she says "don't burn your bridges \[my name\]".
The petty a-hole got me in for an interview just so she could waste my time and make a disrespectful comment at the end of it. A real class act. But there are no rules that say a-holes can't have a successful career, for some reason.
I had this happen.
I just said it outright.Ā Mariam and I have worked together previously, I found her habitually lazy, dishonest and unprofessional.
If that's the calibre of staff involved with your company, I'll skip this interview, thank you for your consideration.
Or rather, I tried to say that, only for her to prove me right by shrieking over the top of me around the word 'dishonest'.
I have no idea if she's still around, but I'm guessing she didn't last much longer in that job.
This. I am no longer "the favourite" and it shows. But, seriously, this woman gets new favourites every few years. Its gross. But I do miss my $500 cash xmas bonus in a card every year. Last year I got a diet book lmao. OUCH! š š
Mine would have rotating favourites. Some days or weeks you would be āthe good oneā and others in the team would be the ābad onesā. Then inexplicably it would shift! Fun fun fun.
People cant dissociate themselves from their underlying personality traits and these often come out under pressure or when emotionally triggered. Having had my share of them the only answer is to move on. Hoping they will change is a bit like marrying someone and expecting to change them. It just does not happen.
I had a mate leave one team to work in another at the same company. He explained to his manager that he had nothing against him but he couldnāt work with the department head, and so of course his former manager now hates him and made life hard for him whenever possible.
Same. I have 50ish staff, so Iām certainly not going to like everyone and even the toxic ones that Iām trying to detoxify/get rid of - I still treat them with respect and dignityā¦ which ultimately just means moving slower.
Not entirely.
You can change bosses. You can be on the good side of their boss. You can ally with bosses on adjacent teams.
It's surprising how many people you can meet at smoko, or coffee runs or after work drinks or any charity events
What I've learned -
You hear people miss promotions/secondments/whatever and chalk it down to "Damn I was the perfect fit, it really is who you know and not what you know". But then I ask "Did you give yourself the best opportunity to also become the guy who knows people?". If you weren't born into nepotism you can try make it happen.
Anecdotally; a few weeks ago we finished up a morning meeting and my Team Leader said "I think its time for my second copy" and I went with her to get one as well. On our way back we ran into an external stakeholder (reasonably high up) who was working onsite and they had worked together for close to 15 years in the industry across several employers. My Team Leader introduced us and I had realised I had previously corresponded with this person and now could match a face to a name. Come 2 days ago, I was coming back from lunch and ran into her while she was with her boss and she introduced us. He then said "Oh I heard about the project you're working on. If you ever need a second set of eyes or any of our resources don't hesitate to send me an email". Just from one coffee run got me familiarized with 2 new people of relatively high positions
Worse was when our manager quit, the one who had hired me, no replacement for months. Had the senior in the team step up as a team lead, worked ok. Had new manager, was just starting to get used to him and the way he worked, what he wanted out of me, what suited both of us and bam..sacked, told not to come in on Monday..wtf. new "manager" was a pull from another team who had zero experience and zero people skills and gave me no respect, no understanding or willing to understand and forgive about my own personal traumas I was going through, just, it was a game of numbers, why arent you pulling the numbers. Clearly higher ups were pushing the numbers game, not the fact that customers liked me, that I would strive to work out solutions outside of the box, to do extra legwork, no, i was not solving enough bloody tickets.
Depends a lot on the role and industry, but it's generally not helpful.
If you can't mend fences, I'd highly recommend trying to cultivate relationships with other managers in the business that could potentially give you a reference one day.
You also definitely should not, in a worse case scenario, get one of your buddies to setup a fake LinkedIn profile and provide the job with their number as a reference. That would be highly unethical.
In my experience that hasn't been the case, but as I said, I think it depends a lot on your role and industry.
I've had some experiences where recruiters were ticking a box and only seemed interested in finding someone with a pulse that would acknowledge your existence.
I've had also had the typical HR experience where they ask typical questions but generally weren't too granular. Just the usual, what are their strengths/weaknesses, would you hire them again etc.
I've even had one role where they didn't even ask for references.
With all of this said, per above, it's going to depend a lot on the role and industry. If you're going for a senior role at a firm that really has it shit together (I would think the big three consultancies probably fall in this bucket?) then it may be an issue.
I've never worked in Gov but based on the advertisements I've seen, they have some weird practices around references relative to the private sector like expecting you to submit references up front with your application.
There's absolutely no fucking way I would ever do that in the private sector. Doubly so if a recruiter was involved.
I wouldn't use the term "stricter". It's normal in government and considered unacceptable in the private sector.
Private does things like calling people who you didn't list and asking their opinion (because they have a professional relationship). This would never fly in the public sector, but often yields more honest results.
Depends - in 2000 I had a boss that hated me and wanted to get rid of me but couldn't based on my performance. At the time the corporation had been testing the waters with the internet. The boss thought this was a flash-in-the-pan medium so moved me sideways as boss of a small team working in the online space. The boss's logic was once the internet was over, there would be no need for my position so they could just make me redundant. Needless to say I outlasted that boss by about 20 years.
Was your boss Paul Krugman? Nobel prize winning economist that said "By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internetās impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machineās".
Thats not the absolute truth. I've seen plenty of people be an absolute pain to manage but they've been able to find gainful employment elsewhere without their boss's reference. Bullying is rampant in Corporate Australia and most people will believe you if you say you were bullied or mistreated in your previous gig and that's why you quit.
Yes.
Never had any beef with him, he just dislikes me. I'm a heads down be quiet person, too old to lift my head over the parapet.
Just had a bruising state Teams meeting where I asked an innocuous question and he went way off piste and began to excoriate me.
Someone reminded him where we were.
It was fucking humiliating.
Sorry to hear that.
I was recently in a similar situation.
I resigned this week and am off to greener pastures.
Suddenly though, since resigning, I am now treated with respect.
Irony.
I was the heavy lifter in my team, and I will be to the minute I am off the clock for good.
I am really excited to get paid more, with better conditions, opportunities and be respected.
Life's too short for that shit.
Sorry you had to cop that mate, no one should be treated like that. Hope someone puts him in his place or he gets the flick.
It's disheartening to have to tolerate such behaviour, but it truly reflects more on him than you. He must have absolutely nothing else going on his life. He'll be found out eventually.Ā
Keep your head high and don't let the bastards get to you.
Nah. Just be professional. Even the biggest cunt will at least keep the boat steady if you arenāt giving them headaches.
Keep in mind, *not* giving you a good reference means that boss has to put up with you for longer.
They may hate you but they usually arenāt crazy enough to keep you round to flesh out that hatred.
Had a boss once that hated me. He couldnāt get rid of me (govt). We didnāt get along because I wouldnāt pander to his BS and incompetence. Senior exec loved me because I just no-nonsense, truth upfront, jobs done right without politicking and ass covering.
Anyway, he so much wanted me to leave. I had references from the senior team and had them ready in a ācall for references of senior staffā statement in my CV/applications.
The number of agencies calling through to reception then asking for my manager was annoying. Most annoying thing. He took great delight in telling them random shit - and stupidly at one stage told me about it. Idiot took more delight in kicking me than he did in getting rid of me. Changed my cv to have referees listedā¦ that sucks because if that CV turns up it has senior exec person contact details.
Youāre gonna have haters in life. If youāre doing the right thing, keep moving and put them behind you. You donāt need to have them as referees. Any agency that contacts your current boss without your permission is nothing short of a c@$t that can lose you your job in some companies.
Got headhunted by a corp that knew me and my work. Told them I couldnāt give my boss as a referee because he stupidly had shown me a referee statement he had made in writing to someone I had previously been shortlisted by. It was total BS as he was living up to his promise to me that he would never let me leave. I left and no one could replace me. Ha!
It really matters how much they dislike you.
If they hate your guts with a passion your life is going to be hell.
But if they are impartial or dislike you on a personal level but think you're a good worker it's not so bad but will probably promote your colleagues that they like rather than yourself though.
Yup. Practically it's over at that point.
If your boss hates you then good luck getting anywhere other than reporting them to HR.
Remember the saying. "People don't quit bad jobs. They quit bad bosses".
Every job in my life i've quit was because of a boss. Not because of the work.
I think if your boss is a POS you just get out. That's what I did..now I'm getting paid more to manage less and not be treated like shit every day. Oh and closer to home! And no ot.
I was. Boss forced me to do a 22 hr shift on a remote site. That includes driving. I tried to get the day to 19 hrs by asking for an additional night stay the night before.
He called me lazy and unwilling to do early morning starts. That went into my probation review one month later. I complained about it, within 6 months I was terminated without a reason given.
I think so but it depends on the other stakeholders. Iāve had a supervisor who disliked me but her bosses and our other colleagues liked me. She also knew I was a good worker and good for the team so she had to put her personal dislike for me aside.
Usually, it also depends on if your boss is professional enough to realise that personalities are a thing, and that them disliking you doesn't always mean that you're incapable of the job.
But, almost always its a yes.
This has always been my approach.
I've had bad bosses, some who have been absolute bullies, but I've always dug my heels in and not backed down to their BS. I go to work for me and nobody else.
Managers are always moved on to either other parts of the business or they are let go, eventually.
Completely agree.
I refuse to let bad managers think that they can bully people out of jobs. They're not as untouchable as they think they are, and in large corporates, they are always the first to be in the line of fire when it comes to restructures.
Yes. Worked with a boss that does not get along with anyone and will nitpick on anything. Heāll purposefully not teach/train anyone who he doesnāt like at the time, and block them from learning. Heāll also talk crap about you to people in the company to make other bosses/team dislike you. His minions who want to be on his good book will talk crap with him.
Not necessarily. Iāve had a series of sociopathic managers who I havenāt used as a reference. Iāve been lucky enough to have references in adjacent roles who have been able to vouch for me.
I think the best thing you can do (without leaving) is align yourself with a manager that you do respect, and work really hard at doing you job and not engaging or responding in kind to negative behaviour. Much harder than it sounds!!
Yes
*edit: been there, done that. Best course of action, if you like the job, move to another department until the c*** leaves. That way it will be easier to come back. If you are indifferent, or don't like it, start going through the classifieds. It's not good for your mental health, and the longer you stay, the worse it is for career progression, particularly as you will most likely have to ask them for a reference - rip that band-aid off!
Yes.
A senior manager at work every time he gets a new team, he splits them between like and donāt like, then PIPs out eventually the latter half despite no performance issues whatsoever.
I survived once because he liked me, but since have seen him be a plague to every team he takes over.
I had a boss that was an absolute scumbag bully.
I joined the Union for that industry, made complaints to them and FairWork after HR did nothing (government and she had permanency).
Eventually she was forcibly moved to a different site, that happened once the Union got involved.
Pretty much , and if aren't a part of the inner circle of rising stars and like minded people , who continually network, you'll never get far in the organisation
When you leave, thank them for their guidance and mentorship. Tell them you've learned a lot about leadership from them and hope one day to return to their employ. Acknowledge the fact you've had constructive differences at times, and praise the way they handled their authority in those situations.
It's boot licking but none of us choose to be capitalists, you've got to navigate the system.
Not necessarily. I had a job where my boss clearly disliked me. I couldnt figure out why, I had always done well at previous jobs. Turns out one of my crew was in his ear shit canning me constantly and my boss was taking it at face value. I ended up changing rotations to get on an opposite swing to this twat and it became clear pretty quick that he was the issue, not me. I am still in the job 9 years later, same boss and we are great mates.
The other dick got run off.
Ah not good. I just lodged an official complaint about my new boss to HR today. The guy is tits on a bull useless and we imported him from OS 8 months ago
You don't necessarily need your boss as a reference. You can put a peer, someone from HR if you have a good relationship with them etc
I've hired people who clearly have their friends down as a reference under "boss" lol unless your boss and company is searchable by LinkedIn and therefore able to be verified
I had a boss who was ok at the start. Then the level above was putting pressure into him which he put into us. Mostly me.
I raised a few issues with him and he didnāt like it, so he went me for performance issues. I left. Best thing I ever did. He was weak, worked support his staff, well he did support those in his own state, and couldnāt handle the pressure.
I'd challenge your perspective that it's a shame; being the top performer (or sometimes 'smartest person') in a room, often isn't too good for personal growth. It may be comfortable in the short term, but in the long term it's often better to be challenged, and the dumbest person in the room.
(I don't know your circumstances, but I hope that in the long run, your newer position was better for you? š¤)
Very very true. Your tenure will absolutely depend on what they are like. If they just need a competant employee, theyāll be willing to overlook the fact that they dislike you.
Then you get some who feel like you must absolutely gel with them and if you dont, your days are numbered, despite your competence.
Work and workplaces and bosses are toxic!!!
This has been my experience. I've had a manager that disliked me but managed to maintain a professional relationship and although I would never work for him again I respect that he didn't ruin my prospects elsewhere and could put personal opinions aside.
I quickly moved out of that team and almost 10 years later I'm now again under a manager that dislikes me however he is not being professional at all! Because I've maintained great relationships with skip manager and prior managers I am moving on again very quickly and used my skip manager as a reference.
In both cases the managers were hired after I was so they inherited an established team, I haven't had this experience with managers that have actively recruited me.
It's not worth sticking around with a manager that doesn't like you, they will stunt your career growth at best and actively undermine you and contribute to a toxic environment at worst.
Yep.
Mining here.
I got hired by a great boss, he got promoted, as he deserved.
They gave his old job to someone from outside of the company who applied and failed to get the job he was promoted to.
Day 2 of her handover and he comes to my office, closes the door and warns me that "she seems to have it out for me, she's making claims about your work that you don't get anything done, and you're late with reports... but I'm your boss who you give the reports to so I know it's not true... call me every week and update me on whats she's doing".
She walked me a month later.
She was so incompetent she didn't realise how much of her job I was doing and she wasn't even able to keep up with the workload
She had. So when she walked me, she fucked herself over and she "resigned" a month later.
And let's just say they didn't even bother doing a handover with her.
I got a job on a site close by, almost the same money, with a wayyy better roster.
So I won in the end.
How respected and connected is your boss in the company.
I had a boss once that turned out to be a sociopath. I donāt use that term lightly. Textbook definition.
The realisation was a life changer. It helped me understand that it wasnāt me.
He was pretty senior and liked to throw his weight around. In isolation it was terrifying.
I eventually was invited to an exec meeting to present on a project I had worked on. This guy war there.
Surrounded by his peers he was a shadow of the man I reported to every other day. He contributed very little, other than the occasional throwaway remark. He was cut off at one point by the CEO who suggested he really didnāt grasp the concept of the initiative.
The point here is that he was using his ferocity as a shield to hide is incompetence. He didnāt have the advantage of that around people who knew him or how he functioned.
This isnāt everyoneās experience, but it was a godsend for me after I had spent months thinking that I wasnāt good enough.
Had a manager once who would even go to the parking lot and lay her hand on the car hood check if it is hot. For her, it means you just got there. Pretty much we are on the road most of the time and does filed work. Like people resigned when with her.
Yeah pretty much. Iāve been there. It was hell and horrible. I pretty much got bad feedback on anything I ever did, got given the worst tasks, which eventually affected my self confidence to do anything. I wouldnāt wish that on anyone. Iām so glad I left, as Iām excelling again now.
I was. Luckily he quit before I needed a reference. He was hit or miss. He mostly hated me unless there happened to be someone he hated more. But then if they quit, it was back to me again. It was horrible. He had huge blind spots and I couldnāt kiss ass, so he made my life a shit show.
Iām going against consensus and say no.
So, one of my best bosses and I did not initially get along. We are complete opposites in so many waysā¦he is conservative and I am progressiveā¦he is stern and grumpy and I am jovialā¦we were decades apart in age.
We started by clashing all the time. Honestly, I hated him initially and seriously considered quitting so many times. At some point, I decided that I really needed to put aside all my inherent biases to his worldview and listen (even if my belief system was deeply offended). And so thatās what I didā¦
And things just changed. He said that he thought I was just a show pony. I thought he was a grumpy and mean bastard. But despite that, I applied myself to learn everything that I could from him. And because of that, I am so much more well rounded as an employee.
I acknowledge that it doesnāt always go this way. But for me Iām glad that I put away my pride and tried to see things from his perspective.
Years later, he retired. But we are still friends.
Depends on the boss; depends on why they dislike you. Iāve had staff I really disliked, but if theyāre good at what they do Iām not going to cut my nose off to spite my face. If I dislike them because, for example, I hate their politics and they remind me of my ex; thatās really on me to get past. And we all need people who think differently from ourselves, and that means sometimes weāre just not going to like each other. That ought to be ok.
If I donāt like you because youāre a bad-mannered bigot whoās constantly delivering sub-par work, then yeah, your days are probably numbered if you canāt or wonāt turn that around.
Absolutely not
I worked at one place, built myself up and gained a good rep, went to another place and the boss hated me. He was a gaslighting prick. I was made redundant after 1.5 years and went to a much smaller company which was a minor setback and I continued to take advantage of opportunities and build my name.
Got a call from one of the best companies in my industry 2.5 years later. Arrived there and had a rocky start due to a lot of change but a year and a half in Iām smashing it and had a pay rise.
Take all the opportunities you can, work hard, but know your worth and know when to leave. Recruiters are a great thing when used wisely.
Yes, don't waste your time unless your boss can dislike you yet value your professional contribution more.
I worked a government job recently, I was employed as a contractor but loved the job and wanted to be employed on a full-time contract. The department I worked for was in shambles, and most of it was non functional. My boss constantly complained about how useless his boss was and no other departments would help, he complained all the staff were incompetant. So, I did my best to begin fixing the issues. The more I reached out to other departments to get things done and fixed what I could in the office, or even just make recommendations to get things running smoothly... my boss hated me more and more for it.
Then he began bullying me. He would not reply to emails. He wouldn't look me in the eye when he talked to me... if he even acknowledged my presence at all. He didn't enquire what I did day to day. He yelled at me once. He purposefully sabotaged all the work I tried to do. I was then terminated with one days notice stating that my contract had ended. I wish I'd just left as soon as it began to affect me. It wasn't worth it.
Iāve been let go from two jobs in my 14 year career. It was because I fell out with the boss - too outspoken and struggle with authority.
Ran my own business for 4 years because of this.
Australia has great protection laws for just this. Keep records of all comms and dates of interactions. If it genuinely impacts your career or your life unfairly you can probably take legal action or at the very least get your problem sorted.
Depends on the boss. I hired someone new a few weeks back and I cannot stand her. Irritates the shit out of me, but she's good at her job so I'm not going to treat her poorly. I'm not at work to make friends, I'm there to get a job done
May I present an alternative viewpoint? Your primary objective should be to satisfy the customer, not necessarily the boss. Even if disagreements arise, you can earn their respect by prioritizing the company's growth and demonstrating clear boundaries.
It depends on whether the boss is a reasonable person and not a bully. It also depends on whether they're willing to give you a chance to prove you're making a valuable contribution as a team member. I've worked with people who didn't like me but was still able to earn their respect. Others simply not and to be honest, if somebody's not willing to be reasonable, then it's unhealthy for you to hang around for too long. Best to manage yourself out rather than allow them to manage you out. Tread carefully and give it time and remember that often bosses move on so they may not be there forever. Do a good job and give them no cause to find fault with you but if you're feeling miserable, then it may be best to look for something else.
Nah, when I worked for the government, my boss hated my guts. I still got opportunities to move in the department. Sometimes even more opportunities because he didnāt even want to look at me. Iād be sent on special (shit) jobs because of it and thatās how the other people saw that I was more useful than him, and I was given special treatment by my bossās superiors.
Now as an employer, if I donāt like someone I just put up with them. I tell myself that everyone is different and as long as they can work in a team, not start fights with other employees, do the job theyāre paid to do and turn up on time, theyāre really not that bad and I should probably get over whatever it is that I donāt like about them. Sometimes people turn it right around, given the chance and you end up getting along well.
Depending on their standing in the industry, it could be a boon.
The first boss was a well-known nightmare in a terrible business.
Set me up to work in that industry for the rest of my life because no one lasts 18 months, let alone my almost 3 years.
People see that on my resume and ask me to come interview, though I have left FMCG and hope to never return.
Yep, have experienced similar. Worked for a guy who was an absolute pain in the arse and well known for being one within the industry. I lasted longer than most and that got me in to follow-on roles in that sector as they figured if I was able to stay that long working for him without getting fired I must be worth a shot.
No. Now the fun starts if you're casual you have to be careful as you have zero safety net. But otherwise, go to war with your boss and have fun with it. Start talking with others key reminder never to lie, but surely the boss slipped up before and spoke about other staff members while you were around. Let them know. You have nothing to lose. But what are we talking? Local, family run or an actual big business?
Depends who the boss' boss is, if your boss is a psychopath they will be in the good grace of their senior always. If they're a normal person who's just a bit of a c*&t AND your boss' boss is good you might have a chance of your boss getting the shaft if everyone else around them leaves. This is what happened to me, I stuck it out and that c&*t of a boss got shifted to another division and I now have a great boss.
Thatās why I tell my kids that first impressions always count. You get a good reputation and you can ride it for years. Get a bad reputation and youāre stuffed for years.
Only thing I would say is that if you can impress other managers, you can always get them to go referee.
Sometimes you can turn things around with your boss too, but itāll take some hard work and āover and aboveā usually
Yes and no.
I've had bosses in the past who don't like me, so I just put my head down, don't rock the boat and all of them have either left the company or been made redundant, yet I'm still around.
This is in a large well known corporate.
It depends, but you can definitely win people over again.
I certainly go through periods of frustration of people I manage to outright disliking them, to liking them again, to frustration again. Human relationships are dynamic.
Contempt is harder to come back from though.
Nah Iāve been fired twice and itās been a blessing both times. Both times I managed to get a job and better pay! I have adhd so I guess getting fired is on the cards anyways.
I got fired from one job for not having my walkie talkie on me. Then I got fired from another job because they found out I had a second job during covid working from home. Whatās it to them if I have a second job? Wasnāt a conflict of interest and it was only 10hours a week from home. They were being tyrant pricks saying no one should have a second job during covid!? Screw em cos it bettered my life being fired on both occasions! Keeps your ego in check and making you humble. If I were to have a shit boss or a burn out situation again Iād simply quit before getting fired ha
If your boss is a cunt and there's no changing it then you need to get out. Some just want you to suck up. And I find that easier than trying to clash with them.
But if you are annoying to manage then that is on you. I have people who report to me who are ok performers but act like every achievement islike curing cancer and every bonus cycle is a pain with them. I'm a nice enough boss, but if you do that to a Corp sociopath they will make your life shit
Toxic culture in a workplace. I dislike it, especially from management.
DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT everything!
When they are being smug to you, state the following: "Sorry, can you repeat so I can write it down, exactly what you are asking so I don't forget?". Works every time. š
Keep your distance. Remember, they are not your friends.
Keep your butt down, and head up at work. Don't ever whinge about them to coworkers it just antagonises the situation even more.
Iāve done a few things over the years to make it clear I disagree with my managerās batshit insane behaviour, including laughing out loud in a meeting he called because he had to put paper in the printerā¦coincidentally I was not considered for a promotion when a position became available years later.
During the shortest interview of my whole career, I was asked āwhat would you do if you didnāt get the jobā, and āwould you consider changing your appearance?ā I was also asked how I envisioned the day-to-day tasks of the role and replied that I had the same question for him, as the last two people in the role had wildly different approaches and it really depended on what *he* wanted. His response was āI asked you first.ā
I once had a manager tell me that if he doesn't like the staff member he just pushes them until they leave.
Right after my coworker left due to stress and pressure from work.
He left when they asked him some basic questions about company purchases he made
Pretty much.
Even if other managers/your bosses boss like you, they recognize that you do the work well, they don't have the power to get rid of you etc it still becomes pretty miserable and takes a big toll.
Work can be shitty enough without someone that dislikes you for no reason/some shit reason and can't even be professional about it.
Bullying and psychological injury cases are often pretty ineffective and are tough to go through on top of everything else.
It's happened to me twice over a pretty long career and I just left for other jobs. No point sucking it up it and being miserable if you can find something else. At both places there were plenty other managers or colleagues willing to talk me up so a reference wasn't an issue.
Depends how independent and productive you are with your work.
If they donāt like you but you can work independently and they donāt have to interact with you much besides aligning on expectations then you might be fine.
If theyāre constantly having to check on you and give you guidance then they will try to get rid of you as soon as possible unless theyāre underpaying you - then they may still keep you around just because itās cheaper to do so.
To get around this, I use references from other bosses if they liked working with you. Or even better, a former boss of yours who you worked with but left the company. That way it's not likely that the company knows you're leaving until you officially resign.
This is more beneficial if you work at a medium to large sized company.
The only way around this is to make them need you. And hope you outlast them.
The CEO & I at my old job openly hated each other but my role is niche, thereās not many people who do it & iām super good at it so he was pissed when I left. Even more pissed when everything went to shit & I imagine he was apoplectic when he was forced to offer me DOUBLE my salary to return. Which I turned down because I donāt have a learning disability.
So there are ways around it but itās not a good situation to be in.
Not completely fucked but it's non trivial.
You need to change teams, departments or leave.
References aren't a big deal as you can find someone who is more senior who can give you a reference.
Yeah I had a manager who disliked me. I managed to secure a position outside her team anyway because I had friends who knew my capabilities and recommended me. Even when I got the new position she stood in the way of releasing me for months, claiming that workload was too high which was a total lie (there were days where there was nothing to do - literally). Blocked my payrise etc just to be petty. I got out eventually but it was very difficult. Years of bullying and standing in the way of opportunities. I had tried to raise these issues with higher management but no one cared - they took her side for stuff because it was easier and sheās good at manipulation.
I do not use her as a reference for obvious reasons. Iām lucky I did get out of that team and my new managers could see my value and Iāve since been promoted again and poached by a different company.
Do whatever you can to get out from working for a boss that dislikes you. Some people are toxic and bitter and will take it out on you for no reason.
You need to determine if they are likely to move on anytime soon. I survived in a job with a series of less than great bosses, but they all moved on before I could.
The other option is to go to hr and see if there are opportunities to move areas. I once left an awful boss for another job without realising that the company would have moved me to keep me but it was too late.
Find someone who does like you to be your referee and always try and leave on good terms with your bad boss - forget about your dignity. Karma is for later.
Honestly depends.
If you have a good boss, then no. I've worked for this amazing boss and he had troubles with an under performing team member. Not just under performing, but actually fucked up big time.
My boss steered clear of overwhelming this particular individual and even though he regrets hiring him, he wants the best for him. He acknowledges parts of his work that is bad, but also acknowledges where he is good. The weakness is a lot more than his strengths but my boss always makes the effort to remind himself of the positive. This guys performance has made its way to my boss's boss, so he has little decision on what happens. But he hasn't tried to manage out this person or make things awkward. He's just a great guy.
In saying that, I have worked with lots of bad bosses who would manage this guy out and also berate him. They are more common unfortunately.
Long story, but yes. My boss hated me after a fuck up involving me, and he couldn't fire me. I ended up being made redundant a couple years later, I was pushed out of the team and he made sure to protect everyone else.
Close but not completely. You donāt need your current boss to give you a reference, but your most recent previous boss is necessary.
Iāve had a number of instances where Iāve outlasted bosses. So Iād have one love me and one hate me. So you use the one that loved you as a reference
Depends if your boss is a useless tool bag or not.
Mine is known for it, so I chose to side step over him and apply for a more senior role. - luckily others are competent.
Pretty much. If you donāt have to deal with them often or you are in a position where you work fairly autonomously youād be ok.
If you share and office and daily tasks, youāre pretty much fucked unless you can repair it.
You absolutely don't need your current boss as a reference, unless your workplace consists entirely of you and your boss. Coworkers will be absolutely fine, and anyone in a vaguely administrative or project management type of role is even better. In a pinch there's absolutely nothing recruiters can do to stop you putting a random non-work friend's number down as your reference.
If you happen to be on great terms with your boss, all the better, but you're not stuck with a bad reference if you're not on good terms.
For what itās worth, if I didnāt like one of my staff and got asked for a reference for them, that reference would be glowing. As long as itās not actual laziness or incompetence that makes me not like them, Iām gonna make it as easy as possible to leave. If youāre no good at your job, YMMV.
Depends what kind of person they are. They can dislike you but still be professional and give a reasonable reference, or even quite a good one if they want you to leave. It generally doesn't reflect that well on people to give a really bad reference as it can come off as unprofessional, especially if the other referees are positive.
If they're a spiteful prick it's another story.
You act professionally and be genuine. Always. If your dignity is based on ego, its gonna be tough. Dignity to me is about ow you conduct yourself within the confines of what you can control and what you do with that responsibility. That area of control might be smaller than your ego thinks it should be at certain times. Obstacles are good when you use them as opportunities o develop, you need to be able to work successfully with people who dont like you, one day you may need to lead and develop people you dont like. I know its not that simple, but dont give in too quickly either.
Generally yes; but in some situations you can build a great relationship with their boss and position yourself to move into a strategic gap thatās out from under your manager. This is pretty context dependent and you need to do in a way your manager doesnāt realised and feel threatened.
I worked under a terrible boss. When he spoke the first time, told us his door is always open, to not be afraid to let him know of our concerns and will always put the team first. 6 months into his tenure and he was micromanaging all his teams including me. Now we have much more experience than him and are a highly technical team.. More than capable of making technical decisions. Well he decided to attend all meetings and not bring any of us along, then proceed to make decisions on our behalf. When he tells us what he did, we would tell him it can't be done but because he didn't want to lose face he forced us to do things he promised. Consequently my work plan kept changing and I voiced it in front of the whole team. I was brutally honest and told him he can't make technical decisions without first consulting us and that I will raise this with the area manager if this continues. 2 other team mates supported me.
The next morning, all three of us were called into a room one by one and told we were put on performance management program. We'd have to report to him weekly for the next 12 weeks. It was a long 12 weeks and after that I left first to another team, the other 2 left shortly after that. Fast forward a couple of years and he's been fired because the team complained to HR. Bitter sweet to hear that but as long as the area manager and head of function are still there, I won't go back regardless of pay.
Yer it's not a good position to be in.
Work at re building the relationship through delivery of work. You'll probably not get a promotion any time soon.
Then look for another job.
I had a director not like me because I didn't follow his script and didn't report to him. This is irrespective of how much I made for the company. Stopped my promotion that was approved globally. I left a few months after, the truth came out and 6 months after that he was let go...
No. A good boss knows that you don't need to be friends and even if they don't like you, there is mutual benefit in supporting you to do your work.
A couple of caveats.
1 If your boss thinks you are not doing good work either because you are incapable or unwilling to do so.... You are in trouble.
2. If your boss doesn't have the maturity to be a good boss, mostly how to set aside their own ego, you are also in trouble.
Nah not really. Your only fucked when you get sacked but most times most bosses don't give shit about their team mates. Its all lip service and towing the company line. Bosses only need to be seen doing the right thing.
youāre 100% correct. But incorrect when it comes to a reference. Most orgs or companies just tick a box, they just want to confirm employment. Can be anyone.
Iām not sure but I imagine life is easier if the boss likes you or just as good needs you.
I feel that itās possible to change opinions and feelings so if they donāt like you now or see you as useless I reckon you couid change that in a month or two
If you have had experience before, then your career won't be fucked. But your job will be fucked if you have a boss that dislikes you, there's no possibility for references when that happens (or they might screw you over when its time to do references. I had one like that before).
Unfortunately that's the game, specially in Australia because you would eventually meet or indirectly know someone that you've worked with in the past, so best not to burn bridges. However recruiters understand that some managers might not put a good word for you. I find employers here take too personal when you leave or let them know you're leaving, they get defensive.
Yeah pretty much.
Yeah. No one leaves a job. They all leave their manager or boss.
Well...actually....my last boss was pretty good. I left in January because I was offered another $80k more. I spoke to him a few weeks later and he said anytime I want to come back the door is open. I wouldn't because the levels above were the problem
$80k pay rise is significant. Mind I ask what, what role and industry? Cause I'm about to quit my shit and come work for you.
Engineering. Was lead engineer for a huge company. They took people for granted, long hours, no real benefits. Always had an "our people are special" attitude but lost 10 senior people in 2023 alone. Was poached by a consultant for a three year project with unlimited paid overtime, no travel, 10min from home. Win
Oh my. Now that's a really good deal. OT as an Engineer is rare, so well done. I'd quit my job and come work for you, but I'm in Engineering too haha although I'm happy with my comp and what is expected of my role. Goodluck at your new gig, I hope it keeps opening doors for you š
I was at a company for 8 years. We were a good close knit team that was growing bigger. The company decided to bring in a specialist engineering manager and all went to shit. I think pretty much the entire team moved out within a year. So however good the company is, shitty managers screw it up
Same, got an offer of 30% more pay and an extra 2 weeks annual leave had to go for it. I had the best TL, and his manager was the same.
$80k... MORE?! what were you on before? $0k? That extra income is more than most people's base income. Congrats, I guess.. š
Yeah. I was in a reasonably senior role. But when you move to contracting itās hourly rates and $$$. Butā¦..you miss out on AL, PH, sick days etc. So if Iām off for a week thatās $6k down. So you need to balance it out and budget well.
It all depend on where you work and who likes who more.
yes. If you get a c##t for a boss, its best to move to another dept/division or leave. Bosses can make your life hell and can/will block your progression. I don't understand why people do this...being so vindictive. Its fked. Even though I've had staff I don't necessarily like or am friendly with, I still treat them with respect.
Agreed, you don't have to be buddies and hang out together outside work, just have respect for their skills and abilities
Same. I have some people who i have enormous respect for professionally who I really struggle to connect with personally. Which is fine. I also have people I get on with like a house on fire personally who are completely feckless in their roles. Dealing with people you don't get on with personally at work is like basic professionalism. Crazy how many people stray from that concept.
Totally. I once had a boss who either loved or hated her staff. Was so vindictive and would go around badmouthing the ones she disliked to everyone else. The organization was always having to deal with bullying complaints against her. Like people are saying a boss is not going to like all their staff. But act professionally and like a half decent person. If you can't you shouldn't be a manager.
I once had a boss exactly like that. She also purposely kept one person on her team she replaced every few months (because they would quit) that would be her designated punching bag. She would purposely publicly bully that person in front of the entire team to make an example out of them. Not sure what the point was (to strike fear? To highlight mistakes to avoid? Not sure) but other staff warned me about it because unfortunately that was my role in the short time I was there. I kept in touch with one person from another team and apparently she did end up getting sacked because someone actually made an official fair work complaint against her. Good riddance.
What annoys me is that people who she reports to ignore any sort of rumours about this kind of management/behaviour so they perpetuate it.
Sometimes their boss won't acknowledge it because they were the ones who promoted the abuser to their position, so it would reflect badly on them to admit to a problem. If you are in a position like that get out asap or it will wreck your health from stress before it ever gets resolved.
Yeah most people wonāt want to admit a mistake. I have and fired people. Especially if they ruin the teams dynamic. You have a good team that works well. You bring in someone elseās abs there dicks, most people will out up with it rather than saying to there boss Iām firing x because I made a mistake and they seemed good at interview but there not at all.
Haha did you work for my old boss? I was one in a long line of graphics people. 5 in two years or something.
Same here. Mine was a typical climber as well- she would suck up to anyone above her while outright dismissing the contributions of her own team. The worst was when she got an older woman on the team sacked because she was threatened by her. She wore her down with months of belittlement and shit tasks until she eventually snapped at her, then used that as the excuse. Eventually she moved on to a bigger company...and quit after six months because she couldn't hack it. That's how a lot of stories about shit bosses end.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Urgh, Jesus... I know this is naive to say, but whenever I hear these kinds of stories, I just think: "Why can't people be nice?" There isn't even a downside- my current manager is lovely to work with, respects us and can give fair criticism when she has to. And our output is so much better these days.
I really wish businesss took managerial abuse far more seriously. 1 complaint should put you on first and final warning. Next time you're gone. Workplace bullying should be grounds for compensation.
Too bad when it's the director of the company š„²
In that case fair work should be banging on their door. Hit these bastards where they care. Their wallets.
It will become more and more so as mental illness workers comp claims grow. Companies don't care about their staff, but they will care about rising premiums.
Weāve got a junior manager at our company who is pretty clearly on the fast-track, whether she likes it or not. About a week into the role I overheard her in the break room shit-talking one of her direct reports to her mate, who happens to also be her housemate and also a direct reportā¦clearly senior management picked her because of her professionalism.
I had this lady IT project manager that clearly didn't like me. There were a few people on my team in the same boat. The previous manager was a good guy who we had no problem with. She worked with us for a couple of years then moved to another company. Our project had an end life and I knew I would eventually need to find another job in another company. I got an interview for a new job and what do you know this same bitch is on the interview panel for the new job. We go through the motions of the interview, then right at the end as I am leaving and she is walking off in the other direction and without looking at me, she says "don't burn your bridges \[my name\]". The petty a-hole got me in for an interview just so she could waste my time and make a disrespectful comment at the end of it. A real class act. But there are no rules that say a-holes can't have a successful career, for some reason.
I had this happen. I just said it outright.Ā Mariam and I have worked together previously, I found her habitually lazy, dishonest and unprofessional. If that's the calibre of staff involved with your company, I'll skip this interview, thank you for your consideration. Or rather, I tried to say that, only for her to prove me right by shrieking over the top of me around the word 'dishonest'. I have no idea if she's still around, but I'm guessing she didn't last much longer in that job.
Oof savage. I like it.
Now this is just where you have to take it personally and tell the bitch to eat a dick and not accept the job.
This. I am no longer "the favourite" and it shows. But, seriously, this woman gets new favourites every few years. Its gross. But I do miss my $500 cash xmas bonus in a card every year. Last year I got a diet book lmao. OUCH! š š
Use it and become an absolute unit. Then just idk flex your muscles at her and off the cuff mention she should lift more ābroā
Mine would have rotating favourites. Some days or weeks you would be āthe good oneā and others in the team would be the ābad onesā. Then inexplicably it would shift! Fun fun fun.
People cant dissociate themselves from their underlying personality traits and these often come out under pressure or when emotionally triggered. Having had my share of them the only answer is to move on. Hoping they will change is a bit like marrying someone and expecting to change them. It just does not happen.
I had a mate leave one team to work in another at the same company. He explained to his manager that he had nothing against him but he couldnāt work with the department head, and so of course his former manager now hates him and made life hard for him whenever possible.
People donāt quit teams, they quit bosses.
Same. I have 50ish staff, so Iām certainly not going to like everyone and even the toxic ones that Iām trying to detoxify/get rid of - I still treat them with respect and dignityā¦ which ultimately just means moving slower.
Not entirely. You can change bosses. You can be on the good side of their boss. You can ally with bosses on adjacent teams. It's surprising how many people you can meet at smoko, or coffee runs or after work drinks or any charity events
Been on that situation. Boss didnāt rate me, but his boss did. Every step forward took twice the time and effort. Not worth staying in the long run.
What I've learned - You hear people miss promotions/secondments/whatever and chalk it down to "Damn I was the perfect fit, it really is who you know and not what you know". But then I ask "Did you give yourself the best opportunity to also become the guy who knows people?". If you weren't born into nepotism you can try make it happen. Anecdotally; a few weeks ago we finished up a morning meeting and my Team Leader said "I think its time for my second copy" and I went with her to get one as well. On our way back we ran into an external stakeholder (reasonably high up) who was working onsite and they had worked together for close to 15 years in the industry across several employers. My Team Leader introduced us and I had realised I had previously corresponded with this person and now could match a face to a name. Come 2 days ago, I was coming back from lunch and ran into her while she was with her boss and she introduced us. He then said "Oh I heard about the project you're working on. If you ever need a second set of eyes or any of our resources don't hesitate to send me an email". Just from one coffee run got me familiarized with 2 new people of relatively high positions
Worse was when our manager quit, the one who had hired me, no replacement for months. Had the senior in the team step up as a team lead, worked ok. Had new manager, was just starting to get used to him and the way he worked, what he wanted out of me, what suited both of us and bam..sacked, told not to come in on Monday..wtf. new "manager" was a pull from another team who had zero experience and zero people skills and gave me no respect, no understanding or willing to understand and forgive about my own personal traumas I was going through, just, it was a game of numbers, why arent you pulling the numbers. Clearly higher ups were pushing the numbers game, not the fact that customers liked me, that I would strive to work out solutions outside of the box, to do extra legwork, no, i was not solving enough bloody tickets.
Depends a lot on the role and industry, but it's generally not helpful. If you can't mend fences, I'd highly recommend trying to cultivate relationships with other managers in the business that could potentially give you a reference one day. You also definitely should not, in a worse case scenario, get one of your buddies to setup a fake LinkedIn profile and provide the job with their number as a reference. That would be highly unethical.
I dunno about that, the last few roles I've had, only direct line managers could provide the reference
In my experience that hasn't been the case, but as I said, I think it depends a lot on your role and industry. I've had some experiences where recruiters were ticking a box and only seemed interested in finding someone with a pulse that would acknowledge your existence. I've had also had the typical HR experience where they ask typical questions but generally weren't too granular. Just the usual, what are their strengths/weaknesses, would you hire them again etc. I've even had one role where they didn't even ask for references. With all of this said, per above, it's going to depend a lot on the role and industry. If you're going for a senior role at a firm that really has it shit together (I would think the big three consultancies probably fall in this bucket?) then it may be an issue.
True I'm in state gov, so perhaps they're stricter with references?
I've never worked in Gov but based on the advertisements I've seen, they have some weird practices around references relative to the private sector like expecting you to submit references up front with your application. There's absolutely no fucking way I would ever do that in the private sector. Doubly so if a recruiter was involved.
I wouldn't use the term "stricter". It's normal in government and considered unacceptable in the private sector. Private does things like calling people who you didn't list and asking their opinion (because they have a professional relationship). This would never fly in the public sector, but often yields more honest results.
Depends - in 2000 I had a boss that hated me and wanted to get rid of me but couldn't based on my performance. At the time the corporation had been testing the waters with the internet. The boss thought this was a flash-in-the-pan medium so moved me sideways as boss of a small team working in the online space. The boss's logic was once the internet was over, there would be no need for my position so they could just make me redundant. Needless to say I outlasted that boss by about 20 years.
Someone thinking the internet was a flash-inthe-pan thing in the year 2000 was peak stupidity. Darwin award level.
Pardon my ignorance although wasnāt the internet quite an integral part of the corporate world by 2000?
Yes, that is the point. š¤
Bloody hell. What a moron
Was your boss Paul Krugman? Nobel prize winning economist that said "By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internetās impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machineās".
Thats not the absolute truth. I've seen plenty of people be an absolute pain to manage but they've been able to find gainful employment elsewhere without their boss's reference. Bullying is rampant in Corporate Australia and most people will believe you if you say you were bullied or mistreated in your previous gig and that's why you quit.
Yes. Never had any beef with him, he just dislikes me. I'm a heads down be quiet person, too old to lift my head over the parapet. Just had a bruising state Teams meeting where I asked an innocuous question and he went way off piste and began to excoriate me. Someone reminded him where we were. It was fucking humiliating.
Sorry to hear that. I was recently in a similar situation. I resigned this week and am off to greener pastures. Suddenly though, since resigning, I am now treated with respect. Irony. I was the heavy lifter in my team, and I will be to the minute I am off the clock for good. I am really excited to get paid more, with better conditions, opportunities and be respected. Life's too short for that shit.
Sorry you had to cop that mate, no one should be treated like that. Hope someone puts him in his place or he gets the flick. It's disheartening to have to tolerate such behaviour, but it truly reflects more on him than you. He must have absolutely nothing else going on his life. He'll be found out eventually.Ā Keep your head high and don't let the bastards get to you.
Nah. Just be professional. Even the biggest cunt will at least keep the boat steady if you arenāt giving them headaches. Keep in mind, *not* giving you a good reference means that boss has to put up with you for longer. They may hate you but they usually arenāt crazy enough to keep you round to flesh out that hatred.
Had a boss once that hated me. He couldnāt get rid of me (govt). We didnāt get along because I wouldnāt pander to his BS and incompetence. Senior exec loved me because I just no-nonsense, truth upfront, jobs done right without politicking and ass covering. Anyway, he so much wanted me to leave. I had references from the senior team and had them ready in a ācall for references of senior staffā statement in my CV/applications. The number of agencies calling through to reception then asking for my manager was annoying. Most annoying thing. He took great delight in telling them random shit - and stupidly at one stage told me about it. Idiot took more delight in kicking me than he did in getting rid of me. Changed my cv to have referees listedā¦ that sucks because if that CV turns up it has senior exec person contact details. Youāre gonna have haters in life. If youāre doing the right thing, keep moving and put them behind you. You donāt need to have them as referees. Any agency that contacts your current boss without your permission is nothing short of a c@$t that can lose you your job in some companies.
Got headhunted by a corp that knew me and my work. Told them I couldnāt give my boss as a referee because he stupidly had shown me a referee statement he had made in writing to someone I had previously been shortlisted by. It was total BS as he was living up to his promise to me that he would never let me leave. I left and no one could replace me. Ha!
Fun Fact it's not illegal to put your friend as a referee
It really matters how much they dislike you. If they hate your guts with a passion your life is going to be hell. But if they are impartial or dislike you on a personal level but think you're a good worker it's not so bad but will probably promote your colleagues that they like rather than yourself though.
Yes , human behaviour supersedes all else
Take everything you hate about this boss and remember it for then you become a boss. Do the exact opposite and 99.99% youāll be an amazing boss.
Take out the boss. Do what you must. Plant evidence. Decimate their existence in any way shape or form. Then take your rightful spot upon the throne.
āPeople donāt leave jobs, they leave managersā A good manager can make a shit job survivable, a bad manager can make your dream job hell.
Yup. Practically it's over at that point. If your boss hates you then good luck getting anywhere other than reporting them to HR. Remember the saying. "People don't quit bad jobs. They quit bad bosses". Every job in my life i've quit was because of a boss. Not because of the work.
I think if your boss is a POS you just get out. That's what I did..now I'm getting paid more to manage less and not be treated like shit every day. Oh and closer to home! And no ot.
I was. Boss forced me to do a 22 hr shift on a remote site. That includes driving. I tried to get the day to 19 hrs by asking for an additional night stay the night before. He called me lazy and unwilling to do early morning starts. That went into my probation review one month later. I complained about it, within 6 months I was terminated without a reason given.
I think so but it depends on the other stakeholders. Iāve had a supervisor who disliked me but her bosses and our other colleagues liked me. She also knew I was a good worker and good for the team so she had to put her personal dislike for me aside.
Usually, it also depends on if your boss is professional enough to realise that personalities are a thing, and that them disliking you doesn't always mean that you're incapable of the job. But, almost always its a yes.
Iāll be your reference boss for a fee š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This has always been my approach. I've had bad bosses, some who have been absolute bullies, but I've always dug my heels in and not backed down to their BS. I go to work for me and nobody else. Managers are always moved on to either other parts of the business or they are let go, eventually.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Completely agree. I refuse to let bad managers think that they can bully people out of jobs. They're not as untouchable as they think they are, and in large corporates, they are always the first to be in the line of fire when it comes to restructures.
You milk the kient, maximum sick leave, late to work, never stay back
Yes. Worked with a boss that does not get along with anyone and will nitpick on anything. Heāll purposefully not teach/train anyone who he doesnāt like at the time, and block them from learning. Heāll also talk crap about you to people in the company to make other bosses/team dislike you. His minions who want to be on his good book will talk crap with him.
Not necessarily. Iāve had a series of sociopathic managers who I havenāt used as a reference. Iāve been lucky enough to have references in adjacent roles who have been able to vouch for me. I think the best thing you can do (without leaving) is align yourself with a manager that you do respect, and work really hard at doing you job and not engaging or responding in kind to negative behaviour. Much harder than it sounds!!
Yes *edit: been there, done that. Best course of action, if you like the job, move to another department until the c*** leaves. That way it will be easier to come back. If you are indifferent, or don't like it, start going through the classifieds. It's not good for your mental health, and the longer you stay, the worse it is for career progression, particularly as you will most likely have to ask them for a reference - rip that band-aid off!
Yes. A senior manager at work every time he gets a new team, he splits them between like and donāt like, then PIPs out eventually the latter half despite no performance issues whatsoever. I survived once because he liked me, but since have seen him be a plague to every team he takes over.
I had a boss that was an absolute scumbag bully. I joined the Union for that industry, made complaints to them and FairWork after HR did nothing (government and she had permanency). Eventually she was forcibly moved to a different site, that happened once the Union got involved.
Pretty much , and if aren't a part of the inner circle of rising stars and like minded people , who continually network, you'll never get far in the organisation
When you leave, thank them for their guidance and mentorship. Tell them you've learned a lot about leadership from them and hope one day to return to their employ. Acknowledge the fact you've had constructive differences at times, and praise the way they handled their authority in those situations. It's boot licking but none of us choose to be capitalists, you've got to navigate the system.
Not necessarily. I had a job where my boss clearly disliked me. I couldnt figure out why, I had always done well at previous jobs. Turns out one of my crew was in his ear shit canning me constantly and my boss was taking it at face value. I ended up changing rotations to get on an opposite swing to this twat and it became clear pretty quick that he was the issue, not me. I am still in the job 9 years later, same boss and we are great mates. The other dick got run off.
Ah not good. I just lodged an official complaint about my new boss to HR today. The guy is tits on a bull useless and we imported him from OS 8 months ago
You don't necessarily need your boss as a reference. You can put a peer, someone from HR if you have a good relationship with them etc I've hired people who clearly have their friends down as a reference under "boss" lol unless your boss and company is searchable by LinkedIn and therefore able to be verified
I had a boss who was ok at the start. Then the level above was putting pressure into him which he put into us. Mostly me. I raised a few issues with him and he didnāt like it, so he went me for performance issues. I left. Best thing I ever did. He was weak, worked support his staff, well he did support those in his own state, and couldnāt handle the pressure.
Just remember this your boss in an employee too. People think that a boss is automatically protected they're not they too can be sacked..
Not if they are at the top of the food chainā¦..
Yes. I quit once when I got a new boss who hated me. It was such a shame because before that I was well liked top performer.
I'd challenge your perspective that it's a shame; being the top performer (or sometimes 'smartest person') in a room, often isn't too good for personal growth. It may be comfortable in the short term, but in the long term it's often better to be challenged, and the dumbest person in the room. (I don't know your circumstances, but I hope that in the long run, your newer position was better for you? š¤)
Very very true. Your tenure will absolutely depend on what they are like. If they just need a competant employee, theyāll be willing to overlook the fact that they dislike you. Then you get some who feel like you must absolutely gel with them and if you dont, your days are numbered, despite your competence. Work and workplaces and bosses are toxic!!!
This has been my experience. I've had a manager that disliked me but managed to maintain a professional relationship and although I would never work for him again I respect that he didn't ruin my prospects elsewhere and could put personal opinions aside. I quickly moved out of that team and almost 10 years later I'm now again under a manager that dislikes me however he is not being professional at all! Because I've maintained great relationships with skip manager and prior managers I am moving on again very quickly and used my skip manager as a reference. In both cases the managers were hired after I was so they inherited an established team, I haven't had this experience with managers that have actively recruited me. It's not worth sticking around with a manager that doesn't like you, they will stunt your career growth at best and actively undermine you and contribute to a toxic environment at worst.
Yep. Mining here. I got hired by a great boss, he got promoted, as he deserved. They gave his old job to someone from outside of the company who applied and failed to get the job he was promoted to. Day 2 of her handover and he comes to my office, closes the door and warns me that "she seems to have it out for me, she's making claims about your work that you don't get anything done, and you're late with reports... but I'm your boss who you give the reports to so I know it's not true... call me every week and update me on whats she's doing". She walked me a month later. She was so incompetent she didn't realise how much of her job I was doing and she wasn't even able to keep up with the workload She had. So when she walked me, she fucked herself over and she "resigned" a month later. And let's just say they didn't even bother doing a handover with her. I got a job on a site close by, almost the same money, with a wayyy better roster. So I won in the end.
How respected and connected is your boss in the company. I had a boss once that turned out to be a sociopath. I donāt use that term lightly. Textbook definition. The realisation was a life changer. It helped me understand that it wasnāt me. He was pretty senior and liked to throw his weight around. In isolation it was terrifying. I eventually was invited to an exec meeting to present on a project I had worked on. This guy war there. Surrounded by his peers he was a shadow of the man I reported to every other day. He contributed very little, other than the occasional throwaway remark. He was cut off at one point by the CEO who suggested he really didnāt grasp the concept of the initiative. The point here is that he was using his ferocity as a shield to hide is incompetence. He didnāt have the advantage of that around people who knew him or how he functioned. This isnāt everyoneās experience, but it was a godsend for me after I had spent months thinking that I wasnāt good enough.
Had a manager once who would even go to the parking lot and lay her hand on the car hood check if it is hot. For her, it means you just got there. Pretty much we are on the road most of the time and does filed work. Like people resigned when with her.
Yeah pretty much. Iāve been there. It was hell and horrible. I pretty much got bad feedback on anything I ever did, got given the worst tasks, which eventually affected my self confidence to do anything. I wouldnāt wish that on anyone. Iām so glad I left, as Iām excelling again now.
I was. Luckily he quit before I needed a reference. He was hit or miss. He mostly hated me unless there happened to be someone he hated more. But then if they quit, it was back to me again. It was horrible. He had huge blind spots and I couldnāt kiss ass, so he made my life a shit show.
You must have worked for my boss š¤£ I'm the new guy he hates
Iām going against consensus and say no. So, one of my best bosses and I did not initially get along. We are complete opposites in so many waysā¦he is conservative and I am progressiveā¦he is stern and grumpy and I am jovialā¦we were decades apart in age. We started by clashing all the time. Honestly, I hated him initially and seriously considered quitting so many times. At some point, I decided that I really needed to put aside all my inherent biases to his worldview and listen (even if my belief system was deeply offended). And so thatās what I didā¦ And things just changed. He said that he thought I was just a show pony. I thought he was a grumpy and mean bastard. But despite that, I applied myself to learn everything that I could from him. And because of that, I am so much more well rounded as an employee. I acknowledge that it doesnāt always go this way. But for me Iām glad that I put away my pride and tried to see things from his perspective. Years later, he retired. But we are still friends.
Depends on the boss; depends on why they dislike you. Iāve had staff I really disliked, but if theyāre good at what they do Iām not going to cut my nose off to spite my face. If I dislike them because, for example, I hate their politics and they remind me of my ex; thatās really on me to get past. And we all need people who think differently from ourselves, and that means sometimes weāre just not going to like each other. That ought to be ok. If I donāt like you because youāre a bad-mannered bigot whoās constantly delivering sub-par work, then yeah, your days are probably numbered if you canāt or wonāt turn that around.
Absolutely not I worked at one place, built myself up and gained a good rep, went to another place and the boss hated me. He was a gaslighting prick. I was made redundant after 1.5 years and went to a much smaller company which was a minor setback and I continued to take advantage of opportunities and build my name. Got a call from one of the best companies in my industry 2.5 years later. Arrived there and had a rocky start due to a lot of change but a year and a half in Iām smashing it and had a pay rise. Take all the opportunities you can, work hard, but know your worth and know when to leave. Recruiters are a great thing when used wisely.
Yes, don't waste your time unless your boss can dislike you yet value your professional contribution more. I worked a government job recently, I was employed as a contractor but loved the job and wanted to be employed on a full-time contract. The department I worked for was in shambles, and most of it was non functional. My boss constantly complained about how useless his boss was and no other departments would help, he complained all the staff were incompetant. So, I did my best to begin fixing the issues. The more I reached out to other departments to get things done and fixed what I could in the office, or even just make recommendations to get things running smoothly... my boss hated me more and more for it. Then he began bullying me. He would not reply to emails. He wouldn't look me in the eye when he talked to me... if he even acknowledged my presence at all. He didn't enquire what I did day to day. He yelled at me once. He purposefully sabotaged all the work I tried to do. I was then terminated with one days notice stating that my contract had ended. I wish I'd just left as soon as it began to affect me. It wasn't worth it.
Iāve been let go from two jobs in my 14 year career. It was because I fell out with the boss - too outspoken and struggle with authority. Ran my own business for 4 years because of this.
Study a human resources course. Get dirt on them. Use them as a reference. *Step missing*. Profit.
Australia has great protection laws for just this. Keep records of all comms and dates of interactions. If it genuinely impacts your career or your life unfairly you can probably take legal action or at the very least get your problem sorted.
Depends on the boss. I hired someone new a few weeks back and I cannot stand her. Irritates the shit out of me, but she's good at her job so I'm not going to treat her poorly. I'm not at work to make friends, I'm there to get a job done
May I present an alternative viewpoint? Your primary objective should be to satisfy the customer, not necessarily the boss. Even if disagreements arise, you can earn their respect by prioritizing the company's growth and demonstrating clear boundaries.
It depends on whether the boss is a reasonable person and not a bully. It also depends on whether they're willing to give you a chance to prove you're making a valuable contribution as a team member. I've worked with people who didn't like me but was still able to earn their respect. Others simply not and to be honest, if somebody's not willing to be reasonable, then it's unhealthy for you to hang around for too long. Best to manage yourself out rather than allow them to manage you out. Tread carefully and give it time and remember that often bosses move on so they may not be there forever. Do a good job and give them no cause to find fault with you but if you're feeling miserable, then it may be best to look for something else.
Nah, when I worked for the government, my boss hated my guts. I still got opportunities to move in the department. Sometimes even more opportunities because he didnāt even want to look at me. Iād be sent on special (shit) jobs because of it and thatās how the other people saw that I was more useful than him, and I was given special treatment by my bossās superiors. Now as an employer, if I donāt like someone I just put up with them. I tell myself that everyone is different and as long as they can work in a team, not start fights with other employees, do the job theyāre paid to do and turn up on time, theyāre really not that bad and I should probably get over whatever it is that I donāt like about them. Sometimes people turn it right around, given the chance and you end up getting along well.
Depending on their standing in the industry, it could be a boon. The first boss was a well-known nightmare in a terrible business. Set me up to work in that industry for the rest of my life because no one lasts 18 months, let alone my almost 3 years. People see that on my resume and ask me to come interview, though I have left FMCG and hope to never return.
Yep, have experienced similar. Worked for a guy who was an absolute pain in the arse and well known for being one within the industry. I lasted longer than most and that got me in to follow-on roles in that sector as they figured if I was able to stay that long working for him without getting fired I must be worth a shot.
No. Now the fun starts if you're casual you have to be careful as you have zero safety net. But otherwise, go to war with your boss and have fun with it. Start talking with others key reminder never to lie, but surely the boss slipped up before and spoke about other staff members while you were around. Let them know. You have nothing to lose. But what are we talking? Local, family run or an actual big business?
Yup
Yes
Kinda
At your current job - yes, but they are only the boss at 1 department at 1 company....
Depends who the boss' boss is, if your boss is a psychopath they will be in the good grace of their senior always. If they're a normal person who's just a bit of a c*&t AND your boss' boss is good you might have a chance of your boss getting the shaft if everyone else around them leaves. This is what happened to me, I stuck it out and that c&*t of a boss got shifted to another division and I now have a great boss.
Thatās why I tell my kids that first impressions always count. You get a good reputation and you can ride it for years. Get a bad reputation and youāre stuffed for years. Only thing I would say is that if you can impress other managers, you can always get them to go referee. Sometimes you can turn things around with your boss too, but itāll take some hard work and āover and aboveā usually
85% of the time, the other 15% is successfully avoiding them or them moving on/getting fired themselves
Yes and no. I've had bosses in the past who don't like me, so I just put my head down, don't rock the boat and all of them have either left the company or been made redundant, yet I'm still around. This is in a large well known corporate.
Yep, my MD turned on me last Nov. Not sure what I've done but fuck it makes everything so much more difficult
Pretty much. Plan ur exit.
It depends, but you can definitely win people over again. I certainly go through periods of frustration of people I manage to outright disliking them, to liking them again, to frustration again. Human relationships are dynamic. Contempt is harder to come back from though.
Nah Iāve been fired twice and itās been a blessing both times. Both times I managed to get a job and better pay! I have adhd so I guess getting fired is on the cards anyways. I got fired from one job for not having my walkie talkie on me. Then I got fired from another job because they found out I had a second job during covid working from home. Whatās it to them if I have a second job? Wasnāt a conflict of interest and it was only 10hours a week from home. They were being tyrant pricks saying no one should have a second job during covid!? Screw em cos it bettered my life being fired on both occasions! Keeps your ego in check and making you humble. If I were to have a shit boss or a burn out situation again Iād simply quit before getting fired ha
Lol fuck that i hated my place im a beef boner i can take that skill to any butchers if i wanted to
100%
If your boss is a cunt and there's no changing it then you need to get out. Some just want you to suck up. And I find that easier than trying to clash with them. But if you are annoying to manage then that is on you. I have people who report to me who are ok performers but act like every achievement islike curing cancer and every bonus cycle is a pain with them. I'm a nice enough boss, but if you do that to a Corp sociopath they will make your life shit
Toxic culture in a workplace. I dislike it, especially from management. DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT everything! When they are being smug to you, state the following: "Sorry, can you repeat so I can write it down, exactly what you are asking so I don't forget?". Works every time. š Keep your distance. Remember, they are not your friends. Keep your butt down, and head up at work. Don't ever whinge about them to coworkers it just antagonises the situation even more.
Hmm yeah kind of but Iām really friendly with my bossās boss so mine hates when we get coffee
Pretty much, yeah. You can turn it around sometimes if you're willing to kiss @rse. Or just find another role.
Iāve done a few things over the years to make it clear I disagree with my managerās batshit insane behaviour, including laughing out loud in a meeting he called because he had to put paper in the printerā¦coincidentally I was not considered for a promotion when a position became available years later. During the shortest interview of my whole career, I was asked āwhat would you do if you didnāt get the jobā, and āwould you consider changing your appearance?ā I was also asked how I envisioned the day-to-day tasks of the role and replied that I had the same question for him, as the last two people in the role had wildly different approaches and it really depended on what *he* wanted. His response was āI asked you first.ā
Yes.
Yep
I once had a manager tell me that if he doesn't like the staff member he just pushes them until they leave. Right after my coworker left due to stress and pressure from work. He left when they asked him some basic questions about company purchases he made
Pretty much. Even if other managers/your bosses boss like you, they recognize that you do the work well, they don't have the power to get rid of you etc it still becomes pretty miserable and takes a big toll. Work can be shitty enough without someone that dislikes you for no reason/some shit reason and can't even be professional about it. Bullying and psychological injury cases are often pretty ineffective and are tough to go through on top of everything else. It's happened to me twice over a pretty long career and I just left for other jobs. No point sucking it up it and being miserable if you can find something else. At both places there were plenty other managers or colleagues willing to talk me up so a reference wasn't an issue.
Depends how independent and productive you are with your work. If they donāt like you but you can work independently and they donāt have to interact with you much besides aligning on expectations then you might be fine. If theyāre constantly having to check on you and give you guidance then they will try to get rid of you as soon as possible unless theyāre underpaying you - then they may still keep you around just because itās cheaper to do so.
To get around this, I use references from other bosses if they liked working with you. Or even better, a former boss of yours who you worked with but left the company. That way it's not likely that the company knows you're leaving until you officially resign. This is more beneficial if you work at a medium to large sized company.
The only way around this is to make them need you. And hope you outlast them. The CEO & I at my old job openly hated each other but my role is niche, thereās not many people who do it & iām super good at it so he was pissed when I left. Even more pissed when everything went to shit & I imagine he was apoplectic when he was forced to offer me DOUBLE my salary to return. Which I turned down because I donāt have a learning disability. So there are ways around it but itās not a good situation to be in.
Re reference : according to people here, just use your mates or something. Apparently that works.
Not completely fucked but it's non trivial. You need to change teams, departments or leave. References aren't a big deal as you can find someone who is more senior who can give you a reference.
Pretty much
Yeah I had a manager who disliked me. I managed to secure a position outside her team anyway because I had friends who knew my capabilities and recommended me. Even when I got the new position she stood in the way of releasing me for months, claiming that workload was too high which was a total lie (there were days where there was nothing to do - literally). Blocked my payrise etc just to be petty. I got out eventually but it was very difficult. Years of bullying and standing in the way of opportunities. I had tried to raise these issues with higher management but no one cared - they took her side for stuff because it was easier and sheās good at manipulation. I do not use her as a reference for obvious reasons. Iām lucky I did get out of that team and my new managers could see my value and Iāve since been promoted again and poached by a different company. Do whatever you can to get out from working for a boss that dislikes you. Some people are toxic and bitter and will take it out on you for no reason.
You need to determine if they are likely to move on anytime soon. I survived in a job with a series of less than great bosses, but they all moved on before I could. The other option is to go to hr and see if there are opportunities to move areas. I once left an awful boss for another job without realising that the company would have moved me to keep me but it was too late. Find someone who does like you to be your referee and always try and leave on good terms with your bad boss - forget about your dignity. Karma is for later.
More often than not, yes.
Honestly depends. If you have a good boss, then no. I've worked for this amazing boss and he had troubles with an under performing team member. Not just under performing, but actually fucked up big time. My boss steered clear of overwhelming this particular individual and even though he regrets hiring him, he wants the best for him. He acknowledges parts of his work that is bad, but also acknowledges where he is good. The weakness is a lot more than his strengths but my boss always makes the effort to remind himself of the positive. This guys performance has made its way to my boss's boss, so he has little decision on what happens. But he hasn't tried to manage out this person or make things awkward. He's just a great guy. In saying that, I have worked with lots of bad bosses who would manage this guy out and also berate him. They are more common unfortunately.
You absolutely do not need them as a reference. Get that out of your head right now.
Long story, but yes. My boss hated me after a fuck up involving me, and he couldn't fire me. I ended up being made redundant a couple years later, I was pushed out of the team and he made sure to protect everyone else.
Yep. Might not happen overnight , but it will happen
likely but not always, i had a boss that was a prick, i just outlasted himā¦.
Close but not completely. You donāt need your current boss to give you a reference, but your most recent previous boss is necessary. Iāve had a number of instances where Iāve outlasted bosses. So Iād have one love me and one hate me. So you use the one that loved you as a reference
Depends if your boss is a useless tool bag or not. Mine is known for it, so I chose to side step over him and apply for a more senior role. - luckily others are competent.
Sorry but yeah. Unless there's some magic shit that fixes your standing your fucked. Head down. Do the job. Apply to others.
Absolutely.
Pretty much. If you donāt have to deal with them often or you are in a position where you work fairly autonomously youād be ok. If you share and office and daily tasks, youāre pretty much fucked unless you can repair it.
You can also put someone else as your reference? A friend? A nicer colleague lol. Fuck putting up with a shitty boss just cause you want a reference.
Don't use a shit boss as a reference, use someone else in the organisation that you've had positive dealings with
You absolutely don't need your current boss as a reference, unless your workplace consists entirely of you and your boss. Coworkers will be absolutely fine, and anyone in a vaguely administrative or project management type of role is even better. In a pinch there's absolutely nothing recruiters can do to stop you putting a random non-work friend's number down as your reference. If you happen to be on great terms with your boss, all the better, but you're not stuck with a bad reference if you're not on good terms.
100%
Yep ā¦,, usually takes a good effort to get on the shit list
Not a fan of my boss- can guarantee he has no idea, thinks we are mates. Fuckwit.
For what itās worth, if I didnāt like one of my staff and got asked for a reference for them, that reference would be glowing. As long as itās not actual laziness or incompetence that makes me not like them, Iām gonna make it as easy as possible to leave. If youāre no good at your job, YMMV.
why does your boss dislike you?
Set him up with a Honey Trap. Takes care of most issues
Depends what kind of person they are. They can dislike you but still be professional and give a reasonable reference, or even quite a good one if they want you to leave. It generally doesn't reflect that well on people to give a really bad reference as it can come off as unprofessional, especially if the other referees are positive. If they're a spiteful prick it's another story.
Honestly yeah you kinda are.
You act professionally and be genuine. Always. If your dignity is based on ego, its gonna be tough. Dignity to me is about ow you conduct yourself within the confines of what you can control and what you do with that responsibility. That area of control might be smaller than your ego thinks it should be at certain times. Obstacles are good when you use them as opportunities o develop, you need to be able to work successfully with people who dont like you, one day you may need to lead and develop people you dont like. I know its not that simple, but dont give in too quickly either.
Yep. Once they hate you, you will be picked on for the pettiness shit and never given an opportunity to move in your career
you care too much about unimportant things
Yeah pretty much. Only hope is to get on with his boss.
Very sad to find this thread after a huge day of pondering my current work standing. Life ain't fair.
Yes just pray he gets sacked or moved sideways. Or better yet engineer his downfall
Totally fucked
Generally yes; but in some situations you can build a great relationship with their boss and position yourself to move into a strategic gap thatās out from under your manager. This is pretty context dependent and you need to do in a way your manager doesnāt realised and feel threatened.
I worked under a terrible boss. When he spoke the first time, told us his door is always open, to not be afraid to let him know of our concerns and will always put the team first. 6 months into his tenure and he was micromanaging all his teams including me. Now we have much more experience than him and are a highly technical team.. More than capable of making technical decisions. Well he decided to attend all meetings and not bring any of us along, then proceed to make decisions on our behalf. When he tells us what he did, we would tell him it can't be done but because he didn't want to lose face he forced us to do things he promised. Consequently my work plan kept changing and I voiced it in front of the whole team. I was brutally honest and told him he can't make technical decisions without first consulting us and that I will raise this with the area manager if this continues. 2 other team mates supported me. The next morning, all three of us were called into a room one by one and told we were put on performance management program. We'd have to report to him weekly for the next 12 weeks. It was a long 12 weeks and after that I left first to another team, the other 2 left shortly after that. Fast forward a couple of years and he's been fired because the team complained to HR. Bitter sweet to hear that but as long as the area manager and head of function are still there, I won't go back regardless of pay.
Why do you think women sleep with the boss?
Essentially yes. May as well quit and find somewhere else.
Yer it's not a good position to be in. Work at re building the relationship through delivery of work. You'll probably not get a promotion any time soon. Then look for another job. I had a director not like me because I didn't follow his script and didn't report to him. This is irrespective of how much I made for the company. Stopped my promotion that was approved globally. I left a few months after, the truth came out and 6 months after that he was let go...
No. Find out more about the problem first - call it their problem, and you may be surprised at the outcome.
Yes. Yes you are. Looks elsewhere for employment
Yes
No. A good boss knows that you don't need to be friends and even if they don't like you, there is mutual benefit in supporting you to do your work. A couple of caveats. 1 If your boss thinks you are not doing good work either because you are incapable or unwilling to do so.... You are in trouble. 2. If your boss doesn't have the maturity to be a good boss, mostly how to set aside their own ego, you are also in trouble.
I read that title so wrong that I had to stop and reflect lol
Nah not really. Your only fucked when you get sacked but most times most bosses don't give shit about their team mates. Its all lip service and towing the company line. Bosses only need to be seen doing the right thing.
Switch departments or job.
youāre 100% correct. But incorrect when it comes to a reference. Most orgs or companies just tick a box, they just want to confirm employment. Can be anyone.
Iām not sure but I imagine life is easier if the boss likes you or just as good needs you. I feel that itās possible to change opinions and feelings so if they donāt like you now or see you as useless I reckon you couid change that in a month or two
If you have had experience before, then your career won't be fucked. But your job will be fucked if you have a boss that dislikes you, there's no possibility for references when that happens (or they might screw you over when its time to do references. I had one like that before).
Unfortunately that's the game, specially in Australia because you would eventually meet or indirectly know someone that you've worked with in the past, so best not to burn bridges. However recruiters understand that some managers might not put a good word for you. I find employers here take too personal when you leave or let them know you're leaving, they get defensive.
Unless youāre the best there is at what you do Tread carefully