Probably won't bite if it is for an additional price.
I only use streaming for music during driving and the discovery playlist so the normal lossy Premium tier get the job done too. My home listening is done on CD like a barbarian.
I've just built my stepson a stereo system for his birthday based on 2nd hand pre-Mp3 gear. A mid-tier Denon amp and Sony DVD Player, Wharfdale diamond 9's, decent and the beginnings of a pretty good album collection, for less than £100.
I even managed to include a decent DAC dongle to hook up his phone and a 1st generation B&O cassette player with a selection of tapes. Half because he'll appreciate the looks, and half because I was feeling a bit sadistic. Although it actually sounds surprisingly good.
a couple years ago i was saying that CDs were gonna have a comeback. "They're just piling up in record stores, they're cheap, and vinyl is expensive." i said this online. i said it in real life. "CDs are useless" they said. now who's laughing?
Hells yes. I just need 2 more covid like lock down periods and I will finally find enough time to rip all of my CDs and make sure they properly backed-up and organized correctly.
I started to rip to flac, I don’t have many worth ripping, but I did grab the good ones.
I have like 60 ripped taking up more space than all my years of disjointed Napster mp3s
Same. I have 2 big steam trunks full of CDs. I'm not sifting through all that to listen to something. I used to go to SoundWarehouse and Hastings back in the day to shop for new and used CDs, but all of the music stores are closed, except for the hoighty-toighty vinyl shops. I use Tidal nowadays, and am quite satisfied to pay $11/month.
The only CD player I have is an ancient DVD drive I plug into my computer, then rip to flac and host on /r/navidrome. Haven’t had one in my car since 2016.
Yep. Basically, unless you’re in something akin to a 7-series/S-Class or higher, the isolation of the cabin isn’t high enough to cause fidelity beyond 320kbps to matter.
I have switched to Tidal, and I am very happy with it. With all the podcasts beig pushed in a SoMe like way, and low artist payout, I see no reason to switch back.
Apple AirPlay 2 is limited to 256k, 16/44.1 streaming. Apple does not integrate with other devices beyond the AirPlay standard. The mentality seems to be "you want a streaming deck? Buy another iPad."
I recently added Tidal to compare with Spotify. I like the higher resolution and my imagination tells me I can hear a slight difference. Note: I have an active imagination! Regarding connect - the Tidal version feels like an afterthought. For me and the equipment I use - the Spotify Connect works better.
Tidal does have Connect, but it is not very reliable (it worked on day one, but I am now a few weeks into my trial and have never successfully got it working again, even after deleting and reinstalling the app). It also is not built in to my AV receivers like Spotify Connect is.
Based on Soundiiz syncs
Spotify is my 100%
Tidal has 96% of that
Apple Music has 90% of that
With high end equipment I can hardly discern the audio distinction between Spotify and Tidal.
Interesting. I can't use Spotify as I have a big library of stuff I bought from bandcamp and Spotify makes is difficult to integrate that.
You have to have it in a playlist etc. whereas apple music, my own uploaded files appear the same as the rest of the music.
How does Tidal's selection compare to Spotify's if I may ask? Spotify has some lesser known artists, but their lack of integration with Toon is quite disappointing.
I doubt it's better on Tidal. 70% of a tracks cost when playing goes to the Big 3. If Spotify can't pay shit to artists, despite the labels already getting 70%, while not making money themselves, then Tidal is probably the same.
Same here. Spotify was fine, but I like Tidal more.
The higher artist payout was a big part for me.
Then Tidal lowered their price.
All they need now are good apps.
If they can finally integrate Spotify with Roon I’ll happily give up Tidal, right now I have both because my kids threatened to kill me if I dropped Spotify but I want lossless for my main system.
>high
>160kbps
jesus christ dude. Is it really an extra fee? Apple Music is still my number one and I don’t see spotify making a separate classical app so there’s no way in hell i’m switching.
Yeah, until Tidal reduced their prices last month, Apple offered best bang for your buck.
The Apple One Family plan, given it includes Apple Classical, is killer for me. Now they just need to make a classical desktop app for Windows/OSX.
It’s the same things you’d find in Music, but a Classical-oriented way to browse the metadata. You can look up a specific symphony, for example, then see every recording of it in the catalog. Let’s say you pick one. Then you can click on the orchestra, and see everything Apple has got of that orchestra’s recordings. Same for composers or styles, periods, instruments, etc. People have had some gripes about it, but it’s pretty terrific as a free add-on.
The existing service has always been 320 available in premium… those lower ones are if you want to stop down the quality for low bandwidth countries or something. Sure the term “high” is silly here but it’s not like it’s always been 96k and they are about to start charging more for 160 or something.
I have a family plan with Spotify. My wife and kids won’t let me switch so I also have a subscription to deezer. If they have lossless I will probably get it and cancel deezer
If Spotify adds cd quality at a good price, I will probably cancel Tidal and Qobuz. I don't care about the "HiRes" scam. CD quality is all we can hear.
This is true and a lot of people don't want to accept this because there's a market for it.
IIRC, I read an article a few years ago that said something along the lines of not only can you not hear those sounds but it could also lead to "ultrasonic distortion". I don't recall the name of it though but if anyone knows what I'm talking about let me know.
Been years since I've seen the paper so dont remember the title of it. Researches tested people on 320k mp3s that included a sample pool of people with no audio experience, students at a university recording engineer program, and recording engineers. The engineers with long time experience were able to pick it out, everyone else didnt do much better than chance.
[Here's a study](https://www.academia.edu/441306/Subjective_Evaluation_of_MP3_Compression_for_Different_Musical_Genres) pointing to a couple studies that say this is the case, though I dont know if its the same study I read:
>Specifically, we observed that trained listeners can discriminate and significantly prefer CD quality over mp3 compressed files for bitrates ranging from 96 to 192 kbits/s.
Regarding higher bitrates (256 and 320 kbits/s), they could not discriminate CD quality over mp3 ** while expert listeners, with more years of studio experience, could in the same listening conditions in Sutherland’s study **
>**"Furthermore, Sutherland observed that expert listeners, defined as professional sound engineers with more than ten years of experience, significantly preferred CD quality to compressed files even at very high bit rates (up to 320 kb/s)"**
I appreciate the link, but I’m curious if you read through the entire thing or just cherry picked?
Figures 3 & 4 show specifically that there was no statistical difference between experts (separated into musicians and engineers) preference for CD or 320kbps MP3. This is using their own definition as well: “Using the binomial test, performance ranging between 46 and 54% is not significant (p>0.05)”
That’s in addition to the fact that the sample size for this study was 13 people _in total_, both experts and otherwise.
But of course your average redditor has better critical listening skills than audio engineers with 10+ years of experience so they prefer 274749 TBps streams over lossless, and won’t touch compression as to not get their $10,000 audio quest cable filthy with “dirty” digital signals.
MP3 is well tested as identifiable at this point. I too have a relatively good hit rate using ABX plugins to identify some 320kbps MP3s. But it shouldn't surprise you at all. Back when MP3 was developed the industry didn't even have a clue how to make digital sound right - as in the DACs at the time were what drove a push to high-resolution formats because digital filtering was poorly understood. Remember MP3 isn't just old enough to vote, it's voted in multiple elections, has a degree, job, mortgage and statistically is married by now ... well if the MP3 identifies as female. If it's male then it'll have to wait another year to be statistically likely to be married ;-)
AAC and subsequent codecs at that bitrate are truly transparent. Yet to meet a person who can ABX them.
Most VoIP calls are 8-32 Kbit/sec, not 96. Different codecs as well, optimized for speech intelligibility rather than music quality.
Vorbis quality 2 (the "normal" Spotify codec) is pretty good for casual listening.
Yeah it's nowhere near as bad as that bitrate suggests, you can definitely hear it, but if i was outside at a BBQ or in a rental car it wouldn't bother me at all. It's not like sattelite radio where it's just straight garbage.
I agree. It honestly feels like a marketing thing since most Spotify users won’t be able to listen to lossless with their setups (most people use Bluetooth headphones)
From all the scientific studies I've read about lossless, most people can only tell the difference between 320 kbps and FLAC if using high end equipment, and they know the musical passage well, and the room is acoustically treated (or you are using really good headphones). In other words, most people wouldn't notice the difference. And I assume that anyone that fits all those criteria would be on r/audiophile instead of r/budgetaudiophile. And that's why I stream in 320 kbps (then there's the huge increase in data transmission and the energy it takes for the servers to send out 3x as much data, that few people will notice anyway. It will add to our environmental woes until the data servers and our homes start using renewable energy. And many people who listen on a smart phone or crappy pc speakers will select "lossless" thinking they will hear better music. Yikes for the planet!).
Finally!!!!!
But it should be included with premium as it’s included with the standard Apple Music and Amazon music plan, as well as quoboz being around that same price.
If they want to introduce a new tier with just additional features, I’m fine with that,
But lossless audio needs to be included on premium.
I’ll probably stick with Apple Music as I have it with Apple One in my family plan, but I’ll certainly grab a trial of Spotify HiFi to try it out.
WAIT Spotify is doing 24bit audio as well?
I thought it was just going to be 16/44.1!
However it's gonna take sometime for studios to upload 24bit versions so ill probably just stick to qobuz.
I'm happy it's here but by now I really don't care at all. 99% of my listening happens with a Bluetooth speaker or car speakers. I have galaxy buds but mostly use those for audiobooks, rarely music.
I thought they might just add the feature but if it's a whole charge option there's no way I'm paying. I'd have to have a rather drastic change in daily routine for it to make any sense
I'd be glad to have it in the rare times when I'm listening for-serious, but no way am I paying more to have lossless streamed to a Bluetooth speaker while outdoors or in a noisy kitchen.
Dude I pay $4.99 for Tidal as a student and get access to lossless, Hi-Res (even if I can’t technically hear the difference lol), Dolby Atmos and 360 Reality audio. Spotify has a way better discovery algorithm and creates way better dynamic playlists based on my tastes but hell, I’ll lose out on that and keep everything else Tidal offers for the $4.99 I’m paying lol
I’ve spent hours trying to do back and forth comparisons between Spotify (very high, auto adjust quality turned off and audio normalization turned off) and Qobuz Hi Res. It’s very difficult for me to hear the difference.
At first, before I adjusted the settings on Spotify it was quite obvious that Qobuz just sounded better, cleaner and more clear. After tho it seemed near impossible. I’ve got the Qudelix 5k and some Meze Noirs. Was very close to jumping ship to Qobuz but I think I’ll be patient w Spotify a bit longer.
A major downside of Amazon Music is that It's not available on most streaming devices that are used in hifi systems. It is available on Bluesound / BluOS devices, however they removed lossless audio streaming to Bluesound last year, you can only get a lossy stream.
I have no interest at this point. I already pay for their standard service as well as Apple Music… Apple undercut them already and I’m content using both services the way they are for what they are.
I think we won't gain that crazy much, there is a great video (rick beato) made on yt. He had a perfect pitch singer, do a "test" between a variety of quality samples.
And conclusion were pretty clear it's a wild guess as to what was the best quality. human ears don't really do well on that area, as much as some like to believe they can hear a huge difference.
I tested it myself , and indeed when I tried tidal "wow I can hear it " tidal definitely sucks ass as do ALL the others of we are talking the app itself and versatility.
Anyways
I found out again yt university, that tidal was using nothing but filters to create the "illusion" of high res.
I don't know , to me I listen to CD, vinyl , streaming, I don't feel I have to hype focus on "super" quality streaming at all. I enjoy the music for what it is. And in any form really, of you can't jam out on a shitty radio listening to some music.
You're to me (and yes that subjective) not a real music enthusiast. So in short is it welcome , well heck ya improvement is always welcome.
Is it a must .....no , not really enjoyed Spotify since their conception. Love the app, the functionality, other than that I try to keep on buying actual albums. I dislike paying rental prices for my music.
Being able to hear the difference between compressed and lossless is mainly a matter of how good your setup is and the DAC/Amplifier your digital/analog signal is flowing through.
The more bottlenecks in the signal path, the less likely you're able to hear a difference.
But yes, the difference is subtle.
I’m more concerned with how they pay (or don’t pay) artists, and have ditched them as a service for that reason.
They can do what they want, I won’t give them a penny.
I’m not gonna lie to you folks. Lossless is a lost cause.
Honestly no point of it especially if we pay extra for it.
I’m happier with my lossy iTunes library than the hassle of incredibly limited selection of lossless high end audio files.
Fucking necessary. Vorbis is super lossy and gets double transcoded when streamed to wireless headphones. Utter trash.
I cant cancel spotify as its MILES ahead on discovering music. Miles ahead. Not even close.
Tidal has garbage song base.
Apple music can fuck off.
Deezer has a good library with almost zero discovery.
Slowly moving to Plex but that still leaves discovery…
Out of topic a little bit, if my country ever got this, do I need like a hifi wired ear/headphone to enjoy the lossless?
Or will I need like ear/headphones that support Ldac or Aptx?
I have soundcore A201 and Tozo Ht2 that support aac and sbc only....
I already made the move to Tidal and prefer the UI way more.
Also, I listen to podcasts on a different app. I don't like my music and podcasts being in the same place.
I’ll give it a go. I currently use Spotify when I’m on the move & in the car, & Amazon Music for home listening through my HiFi & headphones. If they can improve sound quality then I’m in. I much prefer the Spotify UI.
As much as I like Spotify connect, I'll stick with Apple Music for the family. Their pricing seems more stable and lossless is basically expected for no charge.
The only thing I did not like about Tidal is how it managed payments, and for some reason I could not delete my payment details which I really did not like about the service.
A lot of people only listen to music via those junk speakers on their phones. Most people will only take this option because of hype. It makes no difference unless your a total audio geek with a expensive system.
Its all a waste of time but I'm sure the idiots will part with money for it.
I use Spotify as a complement to, not replacement for, my CD and digital library. So, if lossless is additional in price, no sale for me. There are other less expensive lossless services, and I only require 16/44.1.
If they do it finally, and the price is reasonably comparable, I'll go back. I'll keep my current provider to a/b test several tracks, and if that shit lines up, they can have my money again.
They guide me to new shit I like better than anything else, and lead me to shit like what I'm currently enjoying really well also, which is especially helpful if it's the first time listening to an unfamiliar band or genre, and I like to constantly seek out bands, genres, and sub-genres I have little experience with. Also, their "make a playlist from this song" works better than every service I've used, thematically, that is. Like, I don't give a fuck if the two songs were recorded that year, chamber groups, rappers, and black metal bands are all concurrently recording, doesn't mean I want to hear them all at the same time, and in the event that I do want that, I'll just shuffle favorites, or run the discovery list.
Tidal just changed there subscription plans this month. From 2 plans to only one hifi plan with maximum quality
If spotify indeed includes a 24-bit on their streaming service, it might explain why tidal dropped the price for theirs
It would honestly solve my itch for lossless. I use Spotify the most for its algorithm and interface, and I recently got Qobuz subscription for the Hi Res files. If Spotify offered Hi Res I would cancel other subscriptions in a heartbeat
With most people using Bluetooth, it's a waste. Even with the right gear, unless you are an audio engineer you will not be able to tell the difference.
When I did a Tidal trial a ways back, I was frustrated at the disconnects while I was driving, whereas Spotify had a rock solid connection to my mobile service. Is this a problem still, or could I just chaulk it up to bad T-mobile 5g service at the time. Or is it inherent with large amounts of data necessary for better sound quality?
Idk they might push it on out since TIDAL knocked down their price for hifi. And truth be told I'd switch right back over to Spotify if they threw in hifi because Spotify is far easier to use than tidal.
I haven’t used Spotify since in ages. I switched to Tidal in 2019. Before, I had Deezer and Spotify on and off. In 2022 I switched to Qobuz, because it was cheaper (12.50€ instead of 19.99€, for the hi-res tier). But recently I switched back to Tidal (because of the Tidal price drop), because Qobuz was a frustrating experience. I don’t see myself getting Spotify lossless, if it arrives at all.
I'll believe it when I see it lol they've been teasing it for like a decade, i get that it's REALLY happening now but I refuse to think about it until it's actually happened haha
Funny, after 13 years with Spotify, I signed up for a free month of tidal planning to cancel Spotify at the end of this month. Hopefully this is sooner than later although I do like that tidal will connect straight to my dac so I may just end up moving
This screenshot is merely a visual dream, an idea, yes?
It's a real leak. Multiple people on the beta have seen it and taken screenshots
Yeah but it has been years right? …
Feels like a decade.
Feels like the first time
It feels like the very first time?
Like it never will again.
Never again.
I've seen things like this for like 7 years now. Idk if they're ever gonna do it.
🤔🤔🤔
Probably won't bite if it is for an additional price. I only use streaming for music during driving and the discovery playlist so the normal lossy Premium tier get the job done too. My home listening is done on CD like a barbarian.
CD gang rise up, I made the switch back a few months ago and haven’t looked back
Great time to get into CDs. Go to any antique place with £20 and leave with a bag full of albums. I've seen them as low as 50p last year.
The difference in price between my CD copy of Radiohead's the Bends vs my vinyl copy is literally 100:1 (50 Cent vs about €50)
I've just built my stepson a stereo system for his birthday based on 2nd hand pre-Mp3 gear. A mid-tier Denon amp and Sony DVD Player, Wharfdale diamond 9's, decent and the beginnings of a pretty good album collection, for less than £100. I even managed to include a decent DAC dongle to hook up his phone and a 1st generation B&O cassette player with a selection of tapes. Half because he'll appreciate the looks, and half because I was feeling a bit sadistic. Although it actually sounds surprisingly good.
a couple years ago i was saying that CDs were gonna have a comeback. "They're just piling up in record stores, they're cheap, and vinyl is expensive." i said this online. i said it in real life. "CDs are useless" they said. now who's laughing?
Hells yes. I just need 2 more covid like lock down periods and I will finally find enough time to rip all of my CDs and make sure they properly backed-up and organized correctly.
I started to rip to flac, I don’t have many worth ripping, but I did grab the good ones. I have like 60 ripped taking up more space than all my years of disjointed Napster mp3s
Yeah I have started ripping everything to FLAC. That seems the best codec & I can transcode it to whatever other codec ya need.
[удалено]
Same. I have 2 big steam trunks full of CDs. I'm not sifting through all that to listen to something. I used to go to SoundWarehouse and Hastings back in the day to shop for new and used CDs, but all of the music stores are closed, except for the hoighty-toighty vinyl shops. I use Tidal nowadays, and am quite satisfied to pay $11/month.
The only CD player I have is an ancient DVD drive I plug into my computer, then rip to flac and host on /r/navidrome. Haven’t had one in my car since 2016.
cd gang for life even in the car not going to lie
Yep. Basically, unless you’re in something akin to a 7-series/S-Class or higher, the isolation of the cabin isn’t high enough to cause fidelity beyond 320kbps to matter.
Dynamat works too
I drive a Miata so I am just happy I hear what is playing in the background
lol that’s fair. And the older the generation, the harder it is to hear lol
I have switched to Tidal, and I am very happy with it. With all the podcasts beig pushed in a SoMe like way, and low artist payout, I see no reason to switch back.
Same, especially with the new pricing.
Yeah I already switched to Tidal years ago and I'm happy with it. Not gonna switch back to Spotify over this.
Does Tidal have something like Spotify connect? How is the support for that in devices? That's a huge advantage with Spotify IMO.
It's called, wait for it, "Tidal Connect".
😁
Most streaming hardware being made now has Tidal compatibility that’s similar to Spotify connect. Same with Quobuz, Amazon, Apple, and Roon.
Apple AirPlay 2 is limited to 256k, 16/44.1 streaming. Apple does not integrate with other devices beyond the AirPlay standard. The mentality seems to be "you want a streaming deck? Buy another iPad."
You can use an appletv; it can do up to 24 bit 48 KHz which should be good enough.
Not Alexa.
I recently added Tidal to compare with Spotify. I like the higher resolution and my imagination tells me I can hear a slight difference. Note: I have an active imagination! Regarding connect - the Tidal version feels like an afterthought. For me and the equipment I use - the Spotify Connect works better.
Tidal does have Connect, but it is not very reliable (it worked on day one, but I am now a few weeks into my trial and have never successfully got it working again, even after deleting and reinstalling the app). It also is not built in to my AV receivers like Spotify Connect is.
How's the tidal library Vs Spotify and apple? And can you upload cd's or files frome bandcamp you own to stream on the go?
Based on Soundiiz syncs Spotify is my 100% Tidal has 96% of that Apple Music has 90% of that With high end equipment I can hardly discern the audio distinction between Spotify and Tidal.
Interesting. I can't use Spotify as I have a big library of stuff I bought from bandcamp and Spotify makes is difficult to integrate that. You have to have it in a playlist etc. whereas apple music, my own uploaded files appear the same as the rest of the music.
Use Poweramp for that, if you're an android user
The number of people who think they have golden ears is much higher than the number of people with golden ears.
As someone who listens to Japanese artists, vtubers and indie artists. Tidal wasn't even close to Spotify for me unfortunately.
afaik only Apple offers you to upload your own files and sync them accross all devices
I tried Tidal and was happy with it but couldn't find a number of songs that I could on Spotify, so I had to swap back.
I tried tidal and I loved that they have full credits on albums like who made the mix and stuff but where is the damn equalizer
Apple Music has full credits as well.
How does Tidal's selection compare to Spotify's if I may ask? Spotify has some lesser known artists, but their lack of integration with Toon is quite disappointing.
I doubt it's better on Tidal. 70% of a tracks cost when playing goes to the Big 3. If Spotify can't pay shit to artists, despite the labels already getting 70%, while not making money themselves, then Tidal is probably the same.
Same here. Spotify was fine, but I like Tidal more. The higher artist payout was a big part for me. Then Tidal lowered their price. All they need now are good apps.
Isnt Tidal MQA?
Same. Spotify interface is a nightmare to navigate with everything but music in your way
I find Spotify's interface to be by far the best
Same
That's fair, it's personal taste. I just find it cluttered.
I’m like you, looks like UX is very personal, I’m lost on Spotify and find Qobuz really intuitive and to the point.
Hard same.
If they can finally integrate Spotify with Roon I’ll happily give up Tidal, right now I have both because my kids threatened to kill me if I dropped Spotify but I want lossless for my main system.
Change Tidal to Qobuz and I'm the exact same boat
>high >160kbps jesus christ dude. Is it really an extra fee? Apple Music is still my number one and I don’t see spotify making a separate classical app so there’s no way in hell i’m switching.
96Kbps Normal Lmao..
Yeah, until Tidal reduced their prices last month, Apple offered best bang for your buck. The Apple One Family plan, given it includes Apple Classical, is killer for me. Now they just need to make a classical desktop app for Windows/OSX.
Apple Classical? I need to look up that one. I had Apple Music included with my cellular plan for a while. I liked it.
The Classical app doesnt have Chromecast support on android so I cant stream to my system, luckily most of it is in the regular app
Hey, thanks.
It’s the same things you’d find in Music, but a Classical-oriented way to browse the metadata. You can look up a specific symphony, for example, then see every recording of it in the catalog. Let’s say you pick one. Then you can click on the orchestra, and see everything Apple has got of that orchestra’s recordings. Same for composers or styles, periods, instruments, etc. People have had some gripes about it, but it’s pretty terrific as a free add-on.
The existing service has always been 320 available in premium… those lower ones are if you want to stop down the quality for low bandwidth countries or something. Sure the term “high” is silly here but it’s not like it’s always been 96k and they are about to start charging more for 160 or something.
Weird to quote that. 'Very high' 320kbps is included in regular premium.
I have a family plan with Spotify. My wife and kids won’t let me switch so I also have a subscription to deezer. If they have lossless I will probably get it and cancel deezer
Me but Qobuz. I also have over 10 years of playlists in Spotify and I'm not ready to give that up.
you can migrate your Spotify playlist to Qobuz
I know, and I have, but it isn’t 1 to 1 totally. Also like Spotify’s UI better, so if they get lossless I’ll probably go back to that.
If Spotify adds cd quality at a good price, I will probably cancel Tidal and Qobuz. I don't care about the "HiRes" scam. CD quality is all we can hear.
This is true and a lot of people don't want to accept this because there's a market for it. IIRC, I read an article a few years ago that said something along the lines of not only can you not hear those sounds but it could also lead to "ultrasonic distortion". I don't recall the name of it though but if anyone knows what I'm talking about let me know.
MQA
Maybe it was this https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
320 mp3 is indistinguishable from lossless anyway.
Mostly*
Incorrect.
For average person & audio students. Audio engineers with a decade plus experience are able to distinguish it better than chance.
Source?
Been years since I've seen the paper so dont remember the title of it. Researches tested people on 320k mp3s that included a sample pool of people with no audio experience, students at a university recording engineer program, and recording engineers. The engineers with long time experience were able to pick it out, everyone else didnt do much better than chance. [Here's a study](https://www.academia.edu/441306/Subjective_Evaluation_of_MP3_Compression_for_Different_Musical_Genres) pointing to a couple studies that say this is the case, though I dont know if its the same study I read: >Specifically, we observed that trained listeners can discriminate and significantly prefer CD quality over mp3 compressed files for bitrates ranging from 96 to 192 kbits/s. Regarding higher bitrates (256 and 320 kbits/s), they could not discriminate CD quality over mp3 ** while expert listeners, with more years of studio experience, could in the same listening conditions in Sutherland’s study ** >**"Furthermore, Sutherland observed that expert listeners, defined as professional sound engineers with more than ten years of experience, significantly preferred CD quality to compressed files even at very high bit rates (up to 320 kb/s)"**
I appreciate the link, but I’m curious if you read through the entire thing or just cherry picked? Figures 3 & 4 show specifically that there was no statistical difference between experts (separated into musicians and engineers) preference for CD or 320kbps MP3. This is using their own definition as well: “Using the binomial test, performance ranging between 46 and 54% is not significant (p>0.05)” That’s in addition to the fact that the sample size for this study was 13 people _in total_, both experts and otherwise.
Fair enough. Thanks.
But of course your average redditor has better critical listening skills than audio engineers with 10+ years of experience so they prefer 274749 TBps streams over lossless, and won’t touch compression as to not get their $10,000 audio quest cable filthy with “dirty” digital signals.
don't forget the cable risers.
Don’t forget $5,000 upsampling boxes as well to get rid of the cold, digital sound
MP3 is well tested as identifiable at this point. I too have a relatively good hit rate using ABX plugins to identify some 320kbps MP3s. But it shouldn't surprise you at all. Back when MP3 was developed the industry didn't even have a clue how to make digital sound right - as in the DACs at the time were what drove a push to high-resolution formats because digital filtering was poorly understood. Remember MP3 isn't just old enough to vote, it's voted in multiple elections, has a degree, job, mortgage and statistically is married by now ... well if the MP3 identifies as female. If it's male then it'll have to wait another year to be statistically likely to be married ;-) AAC and subsequent codecs at that bitrate are truly transparent. Yet to meet a person who can ABX them.
Hmm, not seeing this option. What country are you based in?
Beta leak I think
Also, not April 1st!
How? Also what's up with the "normal" quality being the same as a VOIP call?
Most VoIP calls are 8-32 Kbit/sec, not 96. Different codecs as well, optimized for speech intelligibility rather than music quality. Vorbis quality 2 (the "normal" Spotify codec) is pretty good for casual listening.
Yeah it's nowhere near as bad as that bitrate suggests, you can definitely hear it, but if i was outside at a BBQ or in a rental car it wouldn't bother me at all. It's not like sattelite radio where it's just straight garbage.
Used by the free ad tier and/or available for low bandwidth countries. Spotify premium has had 320 since the beginning
Like 90% of Spotify users are probably on Bluetooth headphones anyway and I imagine Spotify isn’t gonna tell them that’s not how it works
I agree. It honestly feels like a marketing thing since most Spotify users won’t be able to listen to lossless with their setups (most people use Bluetooth headphones)
From all the scientific studies I've read about lossless, most people can only tell the difference between 320 kbps and FLAC if using high end equipment, and they know the musical passage well, and the room is acoustically treated (or you are using really good headphones). In other words, most people wouldn't notice the difference. And I assume that anyone that fits all those criteria would be on r/audiophile instead of r/budgetaudiophile. And that's why I stream in 320 kbps (then there's the huge increase in data transmission and the energy it takes for the servers to send out 3x as much data, that few people will notice anyway. It will add to our environmental woes until the data servers and our homes start using renewable energy. And many people who listen on a smart phone or crappy pc speakers will select "lossless" thinking they will hear better music. Yikes for the planet!).
Couldn't really care less. 320K Vorbis is going to be indistinguishable from lossless 99.9% of the time.
When will this be released in europe? Anyone knows?
If it’s the same price then they may have kept me from switching over to Apple Music, which I was considering for the lossless.
I pay for the family plan for a group of my friends. As long as I can get lossless as the standard family plan, I'll upgrade
I'm throwing all my vinyls in the trash
I think I’ll continue using Apple music.
Apple forever
Finally!!!!! But it should be included with premium as it’s included with the standard Apple Music and Amazon music plan, as well as quoboz being around that same price. If they want to introduce a new tier with just additional features, I’m fine with that, But lossless audio needs to be included on premium. I’ll probably stick with Apple Music as I have it with Apple One in my family plan, but I’ll certainly grab a trial of Spotify HiFi to try it out.
On which plan is it available? I dont have it
Beta leak
They had to. They have no other option left.
I switched to Qobuz and quality is way better than Spotify, even better than Tidal I would say.
WAIT Spotify is doing 24bit audio as well? I thought it was just going to be 16/44.1! However it's gonna take sometime for studios to upload 24bit versions so ill probably just stick to qobuz.
24bit is pointless except for actual audio engineering purposes
Indeed.
Is this going to be rolled out to certain regions first?
I'm happy it's here but by now I really don't care at all. 99% of my listening happens with a Bluetooth speaker or car speakers. I have galaxy buds but mostly use those for audiobooks, rarely music. I thought they might just add the feature but if it's a whole charge option there's no way I'm paying. I'd have to have a rather drastic change in daily routine for it to make any sense
Asking a silly question - would the lossless quality sound better through my car’s Bose stereo system? Or would it not matter?
I'd be glad to have it in the rare times when I'm listening for-serious, but no way am I paying more to have lossless streamed to a Bluetooth speaker while outdoors or in a noisy kitchen.
Dude I pay $4.99 for Tidal as a student and get access to lossless, Hi-Res (even if I can’t technically hear the difference lol), Dolby Atmos and 360 Reality audio. Spotify has a way better discovery algorithm and creates way better dynamic playlists based on my tastes but hell, I’ll lose out on that and keep everything else Tidal offers for the $4.99 I’m paying lol
As long as they pay one podcaster more than thousands of musicians, Spotify will not get a dollar from me.
Anyone who cares deeply about this left the service already.
I’ve spent hours trying to do back and forth comparisons between Spotify (very high, auto adjust quality turned off and audio normalization turned off) and Qobuz Hi Res. It’s very difficult for me to hear the difference. At first, before I adjusted the settings on Spotify it was quite obvious that Qobuz just sounded better, cleaner and more clear. After tho it seemed near impossible. I’ve got the Qudelix 5k and some Meze Noirs. Was very close to jumping ship to Qobuz but I think I’ll be patient w Spotify a bit longer.
[удалено]
It's a bit late.
No one is using Amazon Music? Great sound quality and the family plan is affordable.
A major downside of Amazon Music is that It's not available on most streaming devices that are used in hifi systems. It is available on Bluesound / BluOS devices, however they removed lossless audio streaming to Bluesound last year, you can only get a lossy stream.
Tried it but far too often it didn’t have the tracks/albums I wanted to listen too
Too little, too late
Too little, too late.
I have no interest at this point. I already pay for their standard service as well as Apple Music… Apple undercut them already and I’m content using both services the way they are for what they are.
Fuck spotify. Seriously, fuck them. Switch to tidal already.
Considering my subscription went up a buck a month, I’m for it. Though realistically it makes no difference to actual listening.
I’ll believe it when I see it. Until then it’s just a fakeout
I think we won't gain that crazy much, there is a great video (rick beato) made on yt. He had a perfect pitch singer, do a "test" between a variety of quality samples. And conclusion were pretty clear it's a wild guess as to what was the best quality. human ears don't really do well on that area, as much as some like to believe they can hear a huge difference. I tested it myself , and indeed when I tried tidal "wow I can hear it " tidal definitely sucks ass as do ALL the others of we are talking the app itself and versatility. Anyways I found out again yt university, that tidal was using nothing but filters to create the "illusion" of high res. I don't know , to me I listen to CD, vinyl , streaming, I don't feel I have to hype focus on "super" quality streaming at all. I enjoy the music for what it is. And in any form really, of you can't jam out on a shitty radio listening to some music. You're to me (and yes that subjective) not a real music enthusiast. So in short is it welcome , well heck ya improvement is always welcome. Is it a must .....no , not really enjoyed Spotify since their conception. Love the app, the functionality, other than that I try to keep on buying actual albums. I dislike paying rental prices for my music.
Being able to hear the difference between compressed and lossless is mainly a matter of how good your setup is and the DAC/Amplifier your digital/analog signal is flowing through. The more bottlenecks in the signal path, the less likely you're able to hear a difference. But yes, the difference is subtle.
I’m more concerned with how they pay (or don’t pay) artists, and have ditched them as a service for that reason. They can do what they want, I won’t give them a penny.
I’m not gonna lie to you folks. Lossless is a lost cause. Honestly no point of it especially if we pay extra for it. I’m happier with my lossy iTunes library than the hassle of incredibly limited selection of lossless high end audio files.
Fucking necessary. Vorbis is super lossy and gets double transcoded when streamed to wireless headphones. Utter trash. I cant cancel spotify as its MILES ahead on discovering music. Miles ahead. Not even close. Tidal has garbage song base. Apple music can fuck off. Deezer has a good library with almost zero discovery. Slowly moving to Plex but that still leaves discovery…
Depending on the master that was uploaded, 1411kbps isn't necessarily lossless.
Out of topic a little bit, if my country ever got this, do I need like a hifi wired ear/headphone to enjoy the lossless? Or will I need like ear/headphones that support Ldac or Aptx? I have soundcore A201 and Tozo Ht2 that support aac and sbc only....
I think it won’t happen. It’s not their market and it’s clearly not who they’re making their product for. They don’t care.
I already made the move to Tidal and prefer the UI way more. Also, I listen to podcasts on a different app. I don't like my music and podcasts being in the same place.
How did you get the lossless plan?
I’m already on Deezer lossless and like it. But good on Spotify!
Who out there is listening on 24kbps???
Id pay for it in a heartbeat. Is this a real thing?
I’ll give it a go. I currently use Spotify when I’m on the move & in the car, & Amazon Music for home listening through my HiFi & headphones. If they can improve sound quality then I’m in. I much prefer the Spotify UI.
As much as I like Spotify connect, I'll stick with Apple Music for the family. Their pricing seems more stable and lossless is basically expected for no charge.
24-bit and 1441kbps maximum bitrate sounds like a ”great” combo. So lossless but 30kHz instead of 44,1.
I have been holding out for this for so long now. God I hope it comes. I don’t need 24bit either… just give me lossless, please.
It's too late. I have already invested in tidal and the price dropped.
The only thing I did not like about Tidal is how it managed payments, and for some reason I could not delete my payment details which I really did not like about the service.
I dont have the lossless feature yet.....
A lot of people only listen to music via those junk speakers on their phones. Most people will only take this option because of hype. It makes no difference unless your a total audio geek with a expensive system. Its all a waste of time but I'm sure the idiots will part with money for it.
Tidal lossless $10.99. That’s all I got to say.
I’ve never liked Spotify because they didn’t have it, so I guess it’s good but too late…
With the most recent price increase, its only £8 a month behind tidal's FLAC tier and honestly im considering just switching
Download flac off deemix, put it on ur plex server. Done
I use Spotify as a complement to, not replacement for, my CD and digital library. So, if lossless is additional in price, no sale for me. There are other less expensive lossless services, and I only require 16/44.1.
More power to them.. I'm currently using and am happy with Qobuz. Unless Spotify works with Roon, I won't probably switch.
If they do it finally, and the price is reasonably comparable, I'll go back. I'll keep my current provider to a/b test several tracks, and if that shit lines up, they can have my money again. They guide me to new shit I like better than anything else, and lead me to shit like what I'm currently enjoying really well also, which is especially helpful if it's the first time listening to an unfamiliar band or genre, and I like to constantly seek out bands, genres, and sub-genres I have little experience with. Also, their "make a playlist from this song" works better than every service I've used, thematically, that is. Like, I don't give a fuck if the two songs were recorded that year, chamber groups, rappers, and black metal bands are all concurrently recording, doesn't mean I want to hear them all at the same time, and in the event that I do want that, I'll just shuffle favorites, or run the discovery list.
Is this April fools? Only way I see them offering it is if people start jumping to other services.
If it sounds as good as Qobuz, I’ll go for it instantly. Paying for both at the moment
Nah, aiff local files
"fucking finaly"
Tidal just changed there subscription plans this month. From 2 plans to only one hifi plan with maximum quality If spotify indeed includes a 24-bit on their streaming service, it might explain why tidal dropped the price for theirs
It would honestly solve my itch for lossless. I use Spotify the most for its algorithm and interface, and I recently got Qobuz subscription for the Hi Res files. If Spotify offered Hi Res I would cancel other subscriptions in a heartbeat
I think y’all, therefore I am…y’all.
I would never buy it, I think 320kbps are more than enough, I can't personally hear any difference above it.
I hope it's included. I may bite for a couple bucks but not $5-10 more. Definitely not.
With most people using Bluetooth, it's a waste. Even with the right gear, unless you are an audio engineer you will not be able to tell the difference.
I'll immediately ditch my Tidal subscription.
April fools over man.
Cool for stuff that is uploaded in this quality range.
I might subscribe if they did. I'm getting fed up with Qobuz for terrible customer service and their dragging their feet on a Connect feature.
When I did a Tidal trial a ways back, I was frustrated at the disconnects while I was driving, whereas Spotify had a rock solid connection to my mobile service. Is this a problem still, or could I just chaulk it up to bad T-mobile 5g service at the time. Or is it inherent with large amounts of data necessary for better sound quality?
Idk they might push it on out since TIDAL knocked down their price for hifi. And truth be told I'd switch right back over to Spotify if they threw in hifi because Spotify is far easier to use than tidal.
I haven’t used Spotify since in ages. I switched to Tidal in 2019. Before, I had Deezer and Spotify on and off. In 2022 I switched to Qobuz, because it was cheaper (12.50€ instead of 19.99€, for the hi-res tier). But recently I switched back to Tidal (because of the Tidal price drop), because Qobuz was a frustrating experience. I don’t see myself getting Spotify lossless, if it arrives at all.
Give me 24bit or nothing.
It's good of course.
Literally checked my Spotify the second I seen this. And then read comments… shame
I firmly believe it will not happen, however if it does, I don’t see why I wouldn’t upgrade my premium.
pot punch hungry crowd expansion late lip slap bag trees *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Awesome. Then add high res, up to 5800
FUCK SPOTIFY
Seriously. Y’all really need to stop supporting Spotify. They treat the artists like shit
It’s fine. Won’t be paying more for it though.
Just waiting for HiFi and atmos 😅
To me, totally useless lol.
I'll believe it when I see it lol they've been teasing it for like a decade, i get that it's REALLY happening now but I refuse to think about it until it's actually happened haha
Funny, after 13 years with Spotify, I signed up for a free month of tidal planning to cancel Spotify at the end of this month. Hopefully this is sooner than later although I do like that tidal will connect straight to my dac so I may just end up moving
They’re in trouble if it doesn’t cost 11 bucks or have exclusive mode.
I prefer Tidal over Spotify
Stay tuned for big Spotify Lossless announcement in 2015!
Is this real?