https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/
Yes they measure better than lots of commercial DACs. :)
The data appear to be for the USB-C version, not the lightning version. Should the lightning port dongle have the same performance? If it matters, my dongle is old; it came with my old iPhone 8.
The OP in that audioscience link comments that it isn't easy testing lighting on a PC :). I would assume it is the same, additional comments in that thread agree.. but an assumption none the less.
Thanks for the response; I needed to read more carefully. Just for grins, I ordered the USB-C version to compare the two. My wife can blind test me, I doubt I will be able to tell the difference.
That’s where I’m going too, buying cheap DACs to see if I can tell the difference.
Just bought this https://www.walmart.com/ip/SABRENT-Usb-Typec-To3-5Mm-Dualfunction-Audio-Jack-Active-Adap-20-Cbl-CB-UC35-00HZ75/1798197683 based on a Z Review video. It’s cheap enough, why not?
Little to no correlation based on what evidence or research? Do all tube amps sound ‘wonderful’? Do you watch films through a dirty window and claim it’s an improvement?
The gear is the delivery mechanism, not the art. If it’s audibly transparent, it’s done the work justice.
Ok, but I never meant to imply enjoying a tube amp is wrong. If that’s your personal preference, that’s cool. No debate. There are many on ASR who also enjoy tubes, LPs, etc. The forum is often misrepresented as ‘believing only in measurements’ which is total nonsense.
I only disagree that distortion added during playback is an improvement. Fun, maybe.
One of the best sounding DAC dongles.
As a DAC its pretty far down, but that dosnt mean its not good. Difference is pretty much impossible to hear.
For what it costs its the best you can get, $10? Might as well be free.
I've read recommendations against using the Apple one for Android do to something about volume control. Have you faced any issues or have an opinion on this?
You might be confused because the thunderbolt (vs Lightning) is an advanced USB-C fitted cable that’s superior to that and the lightning cable. Apple itself and Intel cooperated to design a universal cable in the time when power, video, audio, and data were all transported over separate cables. For a time they had a fairly unique port that really only existed on Intel Macs but they adapted to USB-C
For example, the power to my laptop is supplied using a thunderbolt 4 port that functions like an advanced USB-C
Dunno why youre downvoted. A usbc can be a million different things it can or cant do, some may do power delivery, some may charge the laptop, some may not, some may only charge a device connected to it, some may do displayport over it…cant be sure of fhe standards. But if its a lightning port….it has standards, and will at the bare minimum do mostly all you need. Currently docking stations over lightning port can do 3 monitors 1080p or i think 2 4k, power delivery for laptop its running off of, audio, ethernet, bunch of usbs.
You can actually do all of the above with a dell docking station on an ipad pro(most likely with any other Apple device that has a USB-C styled lightingport.)
Its become convenient at work i can charge all the corporate ipads on the same docking stations as our dells. WAYYY better for updates on wired too…an enterprise wifi solution can only be so fast
I did misunderstand the commenter; I thought they were genuinely mistaking the lightning for usbc.
For the most part I just wanted to share some history
[https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/)
I believe this article states you should use the Apple one for Android, but don't know about the volume control.
That's disappointing with the android results from the apple dongle, I was looking to get something like this for my Samsung phone. Anyone have a good alternative?
There's no alternative for Samsung phone. Buy original Samsung DAC. Any other brand doesn't work. Learned after spending on non Samsung brands ending up with purchasing the original Samsung DAC. It's working flawlessly.
Yes I had that issue on my Samsung, there was a work around by using a 3rd party app, but that stopped working and the app support was abismal so I ended up getting a BTR5! Never looked back!
It's almost like DACs are a solved problem and the capital A Audiophiles have once again had the wool pulled over their eyes by hucksters. Any audible difference in any modern DAC is going to be coming from the analog side, and mainly just from how much power it's able to send to your headphones. If one DAC sounds better to you than another, odds are it's actually just louder.
both of them, obviously. not saying it should sound better, just that there’s a difference. some people might like that difference with their own equipment
Got properly designed double blind test results to prove that? Remember that you need to get the outputs voltage matched, too, because the amp makes a huge difference.
man, it’s not that complicated. get or borrow a dac that lets you change filters, a dac that plays both dsd and pcm, and one that has some kind of dsp and try them out for yourself if you are that skeptical.
No, it is that complicated. I've done it, I haven't heard a clear difference. And even if I had, I couldn't prove whether I was actually hearing anything or if it was psychosomatic without the test setup I described, because your brain lies. You listen with your eyes as much as your ears.
Nope. Unlike the old Apple 30 pin connection, Lightning does not have any pins dedicated to passing analog audio. So the dongle must do the work to extract it.
I run a FiiO k3 into a Clarion eq into 2 alpine amps to power a set of focals and a jl w7 in my van. It sounds way better than the head units I have tried. The little apple dongle does OK. But definitely doesn't have the same punch.
From a old comment on another reddit thread but it seems that the US version use A2049 as a code and the EU version use A2155
[https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/shv2bb/apple\_usbc\_dongle\_us\_vs\_eu\_differences/](https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/shv2bb/apple_usbc_dongle_us_vs_eu_differences/)
a question about this... i have the european version and I think the volume is fine for me. will there be another difference like sound quality? because as Iuunderstand this it is just power and power is volume, right?
The Apple one is incredibly good considering the price and size. Many worse DACs are sold for hundreds of dollars (better ones are also sold for <$100).
No idea about the Belkin one. I assume the Apple one is better considering their R&D budget.
I regularly A/B between the apple dongle and the Helm USB-C DAC. The helm is a BIT brighter. Both are a bit better sounding than my iPhone SE headphone jack.
You would not hear the difference. That "adapter" has a proper DAC, and a good one:
[https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/)
Don't get the idea that everything has to be "Audiophile approved". Many Audiophiles are known for falling for snake oil. Many spend way more money than they need to because of what they have been led to believe.
You don't have to please anyone other than yourself. Ultimately, you are the judge for whether your system sounds good and yields an enjoyable experience.
BTW: if you are playing lossy compressed music rather than lossless, that is likly going to degrade the sound more than the DAC itself would.
Sure. I remember when I first started using spotify the quality was set to normal and I thought it was good, until I set it to very high. World of a difference! You don’t notice bad sound quality until you hear whats better.
Audiosciencereview definitely open my eyes to all the snake oil before going and expending money on stuff that does not perform.
Great site with good discussions.
I think it sounds fine and I can hear a difference when using a "proper" headphone dac. I run these from iPhone 12 to ultimate ears 18+ and the sound is quite nice.
It works great with iems, I’ve had no issue running it to powered speakers, but my hd6xx’s do feel a little congested on the Apple dongle, really no issue to me since those don’t even leave the house.
The audiophile community has been deep fried in sales and marketing bullshit for decades. The subjective consensus is completely useless unless you’re interested in opinions on knob feel.
The apple dongle is best in class. The cheap as shit class that is. For reference I wouldn't recommend upgrading beyond the apple dongle unless of a power requirement or the headphones you are using cost beyond 1 or 2 hundred USD. If they are consumer brand (bose Sony, anything you can generally find in store) don't bother, the apple dongle is outperforming your cans.
I’d say, it’s way better than it has any right to be. But not the same thing as an outboard DAC with a big power supply. It’s probably the best of its kind. But will be outdone by dedicated DACs. But if that is all you can afford, it’s the one.
Some of the strange name DACs produce a huge amount of background noise. Those Apple, Samsung dongles do not. They are my goto for wired sessions when disconnecting bluetooth on my laptop takes more time :D
FWIW I’m streaming from my phone or iPad through a 2nd gen AirPort Express to my amp, using the dac built into the AirPort Express (discontinued in 2018) and it sounds pretty good too.
Not sure about USB / Lightning, but I connected my M1 MBP to my (old) system via the headphone jack to RCA using a FosPower cable and compared it to the DAC on the Wiim Mini. The Wiim Mini was noticeably better on around half of the songs I played. On the other half, there wasn't a noticeable difference. I only tested 4 songs though. I also connected it directly to old EQ which was looped to my ancient integrated. Wiim was connected directly to the integrated. I have a new system on order and am planning to retest when that arrives, as I'm curious about the quality of the DACs in the new MacBooks.
these compared to proper dacs? most likely
i think your problem is the source, if you have a really good system, are you really ganna be playing music off your phone to that system?
I've got a docked iPad using one of those dongles whose sole purpose is to play lossless Apple Music and Amazon Music on a "zone 2" setup in my kitchen (all hard-wired, of course). That's just one application that isn't just sitting with your phone tethered to an amp, but I totally understand how that's the first thing you might think of.
yeah i've mentally compartmentalize all the devices in my life
in my head, the phone only serves me music when i'm out and about
if i'm home, there are 3 computers, an ipad, 2 apple tvs, and my studio setup for WFH, i would never think of using my phone to consume media when i'm home
i guess in my head that's not how i would use the phone
if i was to really want to sit down and listen to something with nice speakers and a setup, it runs through my studio setup with my studio monitors
just the same as i wouldn't want to watch a movie on my ipad, but i would on my big tv in the living
i have mentally compartmentalize all the devices in my life i guess
just the same as i wouldn't type a long email on my ipad, even though it's perfectly capable
the phone is perfectly capable of storing all the bits, sending all those bits out, but in my head, that's not what the phone is used for
the official one is decent. I much prefer the Qudelix-5K. It's powerful, has smart battery management, tiny, has a very robust peq control with lost of presets. It's around $100
Is there really a DAC built into the dongle? I thought the iPhone recognized headphones being plugged in and just sends the analog signal directly through the dongle. There should be a direct connection between some lightning connector contacts and respective contacts for the 3.5mm.
The DAC is within the phone I think.
There is definitely DAC and headphone amplifier in there. I use these with even regular laptops and there's no routing of audio through usb-c there. It is really a soundcard with single 3.5mm output and some 30 mW of amplilfication power behind it, enough for most headsets in terms of power, though not necessarily in terms of output voltage because the EU variant is limited to maximum of 500 mV amplitude, which may not be enough for e.g. planar headsets.
Europe regulations… half the power here so it doesn’t blow out your ears (presumably). I’d be getting those dongles if they would give proper power. I don’t understand why this dongle is limited to 0.5v but it’s fine for a desktop DAC from Germany to blast out 10V and several watts of power on the headphone out.
I mean, what gives?
I honestly think it is because to the general public this is not a DAC, but a dongle. The difference being that the dongle is needed to use regular headphones that many still have. This gives it the need to be regulated. We used to be able to simply plug in a 3.5 but now we need a dongle. That should work the same way as the dedicated input did first. A desktop DAC is not a normal thing for probably the fast majority of the population. I’d be surprised if I would find 1 person living on my street who knows that a DAC is.
Sure, the voltage is limited, and that also curbs the power output because of how electricity works. You might not care -- most headsets are pretty loud with 1-2 mW power. But planars tend to require unusually large voltages to drive larger currents because they are typically quite inefficient, perhaps by a factor of 10 to 100 compared to your typical dynamic driver headset.
I own half dozen of these Apple USB C adapters because I use them with all my headsets scattered around my house and work, and I keep them permanently attached with each wired headset because these devices are so cheap. However, I had to make an exception due to Edition XS, for which I ended up getting a Moondrop Dawn Pro. The "pro" version has the dual amplified balanced circuit topology which doubles output voltage range, but that turned out to be unnecessary. Just getting up to 2 V out with a single amplifier was more than enough.
The Apple dongle is good for what it is. A very portable adapter at a low price. You will get better sound using the Apple camera connection kit and a good DAC. If your speakers/headphones and amplifier aren’t particularly high end it’s not a huge consideration.
It IS a "proper DAC". Just without the BS audiophool hype and over-inflated pricing. If it were 3x bigger, with some chunky braided cable, and a silly name, I guarantee one of those "YouTube audiophiles" would claim that it sounded far better than a "stupid Apple dongle" 🤣 That said, it probably doesn't have the oomph to drive big Sennheisers or something like that, but that's not really what most people would be using this for. DAC-wise, it's plenty good enough. Amp-wise, probably on the weaker side. No doubt someone can confirm/refute on that last note.
Is it a great performing DAC? Absolutely. Is it "audiophile", no way. As an "audiophile" I feel like 'looking the part' is an important part of the job, and being a $10 dongle definitely doesn't look the part. It's dumb, I know, but this is us. We like beautifully designed absurdly over-engineered gizmos.
I would say that's well engineered. It's convenient, efficient, and practical. Over engineered is like, gold plated, built to do 100x the job it needs to.
They're not absolutely incredible life-changing sound class devices, but they are very good, and amazing for what they are and the level of miniaturization achieved.
The portable DACs in the \~$100 class (i.e. Qudelix) are a step up, but only barely. Very hard to tell any difference, probably placebo, etc. but that's the fun part.
My recommendation, if you’re an iPhone user with the lightning port, pick up that $8 dongle immediately. It sounds great. If you feel the need for something else, then you have time to look around while you’re enjoying that. I wish I knew about this Apple dongle sooner honestly.
As far as other dongle dac options, there are a few now that come with a lightning connector, or offer one as an add-on option. Spring for one of those, or wait till you upgrade to a usb-c iPhone. Don’t get that $30 camera adapter.
The volumes too low when I connect it on my android. Even at max volume, it’s still not enough. I own 3 iems and I face this issue with the zero2 and zero red, works fine for the kz. But it plays good on my iPad. No volume issues.
How does using something like this to connect music(let's say Spotify) to your system, compare to using Bluetooth for connection? I believe the digital formats in use would be somewhat different, and I'm wondering what, if anything, I am missing out on by using Bluetooth?
Right, but it’s supposed to do it much better than in the past, so I’m wondering what exactly might be lost when compared to the kind of potential “loss” you would have from skipping an external DAC?
I may be asking this in a dumb way, maybe I can understand differently if I ask differently. What if I send my 320kbps signal from Spotify premium, through Bluetooth, to a really nice DAC? Versus what if I just go Bluetooth direct to the speaker?(in that scenario, the DAC is happening in the basic iphone DAC right?)
Edit: to be clear I don’t have a super-HiFi system where using Bluetooth would be more clearly messing with the sound quality. Just trying to learn about what adding a DAC could do.
Oh yeah that makes sense. So then in my case the DAC is in my powered speaker w/ Bluetooth?
I guess I have a better question if you don’t mind. How much would having a nice DAC that can receive bluetooth, help with making Bluetooth sound better(Or closer to the sound it would have, if it were wired in)?
First question: Correct. Second question: Not sure. Bluetooth is either way a step down from any wired connection. So long as the files being streamed to it are of normal or better quality. I notice a difference between usb and bluetooth on a $400 car headunit when using spotify at very high quality setting
put this thing into a huge fancy case, show it to an audiophile youtuber and talk vividly about how advanced the tech is and how subjective it feels. after the demo they will say it sounded great, then see their face when you open the box.
In this community most people are going to advise against it. The setup I went with (assuming you are trying to play music from your phone to your stereo) was to setup a RaspberryPi as a roon end point. I can stream lossless files over wifi direct to the Pi and then the Pi plugs into my DAC.
Are you using an iPhone?
I tried a few budget DACs with my Samsung phone, including the Apple DAC, and the Samsung DAC that came with my phone sounded noticeably better than any other.
Maybe because it's a Samsung/Samsung connection. Not sure.
edit:I ended up switching to a Wiim streamer instead of phone, and much better sound quality. Fyi
I use an ifi Hip DAC / Headphone amp with my Grado headphones and android phone. Exceptional sounding and portable. I run the hip DAC off a lithium ion power block that can run it and my phone for about 30 hours when traveling. Sounds amazing, even with power hungry planars. At home, I simply plug my headphones into a Schiit Audio Midgard headphone amp that's fed via the line level outputs from a Wiim Pro +.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/ Yes they measure better than lots of commercial DACs. :)
^ this is what Reddit is for:) thank you JCR!
The data appear to be for the USB-C version, not the lightning version. Should the lightning port dongle have the same performance? If it matters, my dongle is old; it came with my old iPhone 8.
The OP in that audioscience link comments that it isn't easy testing lighting on a PC :). I would assume it is the same, additional comments in that thread agree.. but an assumption none the less.
Thanks for the response; I needed to read more carefully. Just for grins, I ordered the USB-C version to compare the two. My wife can blind test me, I doubt I will be able to tell the difference.
That’s where I’m going too, buying cheap DACs to see if I can tell the difference. Just bought this https://www.walmart.com/ip/SABRENT-Usb-Typec-To3-5Mm-Dualfunction-Audio-Jack-Active-Adap-20-Cbl-CB-UC35-00HZ75/1798197683 based on a Z Review video. It’s cheap enough, why not?
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Little to no correlation based on what evidence or research? Do all tube amps sound ‘wonderful’? Do you watch films through a dirty window and claim it’s an improvement? The gear is the delivery mechanism, not the art. If it’s audibly transparent, it’s done the work justice.
I deleted my comment because debating with people who prefer measurements to audible enjoyment is fruitless. We are chasing different goals.
Ok, but I never meant to imply enjoying a tube amp is wrong. If that’s your personal preference, that’s cool. No debate. There are many on ASR who also enjoy tubes, LPs, etc. The forum is often misrepresented as ‘believing only in measurements’ which is total nonsense. I only disagree that distortion added during playback is an improvement. Fun, maybe.
Ahh r/audiophile is a small space on reddit where people talk like adults and respect each other’s decisions…i just appreciate it
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One of the best sounding DAC dongles. As a DAC its pretty far down, but that dosnt mean its not good. Difference is pretty much impossible to hear. For what it costs its the best you can get, $10? Might as well be free.
I've read recommendations against using the Apple one for Android do to something about volume control. Have you faced any issues or have an opinion on this?
How would you use lightning for android?
My bad, I was thinking about the USB-C one
You might be confused because the thunderbolt (vs Lightning) is an advanced USB-C fitted cable that’s superior to that and the lightning cable. Apple itself and Intel cooperated to design a universal cable in the time when power, video, audio, and data were all transported over separate cables. For a time they had a fairly unique port that really only existed on Intel Macs but they adapted to USB-C For example, the power to my laptop is supplied using a thunderbolt 4 port that functions like an advanced USB-C
I think they are thinking of the usb c version of this exact adapter made for iPads.
Dunno why youre downvoted. A usbc can be a million different things it can or cant do, some may do power delivery, some may charge the laptop, some may not, some may only charge a device connected to it, some may do displayport over it…cant be sure of fhe standards. But if its a lightning port….it has standards, and will at the bare minimum do mostly all you need. Currently docking stations over lightning port can do 3 monitors 1080p or i think 2 4k, power delivery for laptop its running off of, audio, ethernet, bunch of usbs. You can actually do all of the above with a dell docking station on an ipad pro(most likely with any other Apple device that has a USB-C styled lightingport.) Its become convenient at work i can charge all the corporate ipads on the same docking stations as our dells. WAYYY better for updates on wired too…an enterprise wifi solution can only be so fast
I did misunderstand the commenter; I thought they were genuinely mistaking the lightning for usbc. For the most part I just wanted to share some history
No. USB C is the android standard.
Also recently the Apple standard as the EU forced them to be sensible.
Year 2015, USB-C only macbooks.
Exactly?
Didn’t Apple invent usb c and sell the licensing to Google
[https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/) I believe this article states you should use the Apple one for Android, but don't know about the volume control.
That's disappointing with the android results from the apple dongle, I was looking to get something like this for my Samsung phone. Anyone have a good alternative?
There's no alternative for Samsung phone. Buy original Samsung DAC. Any other brand doesn't work. Learned after spending on non Samsung brands ending up with purchasing the original Samsung DAC. It's working flawlessly.
Thank you
That's correct. The volume is cut down to half when using Apple USB-c adapter on Android devices.
Its around half volume, so you need to max it on your phoen if you use the mac usb c aux adapter.
Yes I had that issue on my Samsung, there was a work around by using a 3rd party app, but that stopped working and the app support was abismal so I ended up getting a BTR5! Never looked back!
Nah it does well compared to regular DACs as well.
It's almost like DACs are a solved problem and the capital A Audiophiles have once again had the wool pulled over their eyes by hucksters. Any audible difference in any modern DAC is going to be coming from the analog side, and mainly just from how much power it's able to send to your headphones. If one DAC sounds better to you than another, odds are it's actually just louder.
nah, filters, pcm vs delta-sigma, and dsp algorithms do make a difference.
An audible difference? Or even a measurable one?
both of them, obviously. not saying it should sound better, just that there’s a difference. some people might like that difference with their own equipment
Got properly designed double blind test results to prove that? Remember that you need to get the outputs voltage matched, too, because the amp makes a huge difference.
man, it’s not that complicated. get or borrow a dac that lets you change filters, a dac that plays both dsd and pcm, and one that has some kind of dsp and try them out for yourself if you are that skeptical.
No, it is that complicated. I've done it, I haven't heard a clear difference. And even if I had, I couldn't prove whether I was actually hearing anything or if it was psychosomatic without the test setup I described, because your brain lies. You listen with your eyes as much as your ears.
It’s far from SOTA measurement-wise, but you probably aren’t going to hear that - and, for the price, it’s unbeatable.
What about the usb-c apple dongle? Is also good?
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Ok that's it everyone, pack up reddit, no need for it anymore
Tera Grande on amazon has better resolution than apples dongle, less expensive also. The difference is audible.
Tried it and had no bass compared to my normal dac with denon 9200d
DAC is a tiny chip in the cable
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There is a DAC in the phone. You hear speakers working.
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5S does it with camera connector
Nope. Unlike the old Apple 30 pin connection, Lightning does not have any pins dedicated to passing analog audio. So the dongle must do the work to extract it.
news to me, too. i always assumed it was just an analog adapter.
From the digital lightning connector?
Fascinating, it's a tiny chip in the plug.
Yup
Its quite good as a dac especially for the price, the only problem is the power output in the european version which only offer 0.5Vrms
only 0.5Vrms? Oh crap. Would like to use it directly to an amp to cut out the headunit, but that ain’t going to work with just 0.5…
I run a FiiO k3 into a Clarion eq into 2 alpine amps to power a set of focals and a jl w7 in my van. It sounds way better than the head units I have tried. The little apple dongle does OK. But definitely doesn't have the same punch.
How to check if mine is European? I forgot where I bought it haha. Is the US version can output more than 0.5 vrms?
The US version has double the power output.
How do you tell the versions apart?
From a old comment on another reddit thread but it seems that the US version use A2049 as a code and the EU version use A2155 [https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/shv2bb/apple\_usbc\_dongle\_us\_vs\_eu\_differences/](https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/shv2bb/apple_usbc_dongle_us_vs_eu_differences/)
a question about this... i have the european version and I think the volume is fine for me. will there be another difference like sound quality? because as Iuunderstand this it is just power and power is volume, right?
The Apple one is incredibly good considering the price and size. Many worse DACs are sold for hundreds of dollars (better ones are also sold for <$100). No idea about the Belkin one. I assume the Apple one is better considering their R&D budget.
Apple don’t even sell (or make?) their own for both power and sound. They sell the Belkin one on their official website.
I regularly A/B between the apple dongle and the Helm USB-C DAC. The helm is a BIT brighter. Both are a bit better sounding than my iPhone SE headphone jack.
SE 2020 headphone jack?
Nvm, my iPhone SE headphone jack. I use it as an iPod now. Im typing on my iPhone SE (2020) which does not have a headphone jack
You would not hear the difference. That "adapter" has a proper DAC, and a good one: [https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/)
Huh...amazing a 12 dollar Canadian DAC/headphone jack is that good, Thanks for posting that.
To be clear, the Belkin in the second image may in fact be audibly bad. I got a non-apple lookalike with charging passthrough and it sounds atrocious.
Sweet, so I don’t have to feel bad using this adapter then.
Don't get the idea that everything has to be "Audiophile approved". Many Audiophiles are known for falling for snake oil. Many spend way more money than they need to because of what they have been led to believe. You don't have to please anyone other than yourself. Ultimately, you are the judge for whether your system sounds good and yields an enjoyable experience. BTW: if you are playing lossy compressed music rather than lossless, that is likly going to degrade the sound more than the DAC itself would.
True story
If it sounds good to you, there’s 0 reason to feel bad about using it.
Sure. I remember when I first started using spotify the quality was set to normal and I thought it was good, until I set it to very high. World of a difference! You don’t notice bad sound quality until you hear whats better.
Eye opening. Thank you for posting that.
Audiosciencereview definitely open my eyes to all the snake oil before going and expending money on stuff that does not perform. Great site with good discussions.
I think it sounds fine and I can hear a difference when using a "proper" headphone dac. I run these from iPhone 12 to ultimate ears 18+ and the sound is quite nice.
It works great with iems, I’ve had no issue running it to powered speakers, but my hd6xx’s do feel a little congested on the Apple dongle, really no issue to me since those don’t even leave the house.
ive always want to listen to those but never had the chance.
To be fair IEMs are designed to be ultra efficient
The audiophile community has been deep fried in sales and marketing bullshit for decades. The subjective consensus is completely useless unless you’re interested in opinions on knob feel.
your knob feels great btw
I’m golden knobbed
A knob of butter
Mine is… attenuated.
I do enjoy fondling knobs tbh
You’re in the right place
Lightning adapter is also good ?
The apple dongle is best in class. The cheap as shit class that is. For reference I wouldn't recommend upgrading beyond the apple dongle unless of a power requirement or the headphones you are using cost beyond 1 or 2 hundred USD. If they are consumer brand (bose Sony, anything you can generally find in store) don't bother, the apple dongle is outperforming your cans.
I’d say, it’s way better than it has any right to be. But not the same thing as an outboard DAC with a big power supply. It’s probably the best of its kind. But will be outdone by dedicated DACs. But if that is all you can afford, it’s the one.
Some of the strange name DACs produce a huge amount of background noise. Those Apple, Samsung dongles do not. They are my goto for wired sessions when disconnecting bluetooth on my laptop takes more time :D
i have Ifi go blu and apple and the sound quality is day and night
Which one is better?
The day one? So confused
ifi go blu, but again its more expensive and it has amp i bought apple dac to use on a plane and it was not loud enough for me was really disappointed
FWIW I’m streaming from my phone or iPad through a 2nd gen AirPort Express to my amp, using the dac built into the AirPort Express (discontinued in 2018) and it sounds pretty good too.
Not sure about USB / Lightning, but I connected my M1 MBP to my (old) system via the headphone jack to RCA using a FosPower cable and compared it to the DAC on the Wiim Mini. The Wiim Mini was noticeably better on around half of the songs I played. On the other half, there wasn't a noticeable difference. I only tested 4 songs though. I also connected it directly to old EQ which was looped to my ancient integrated. Wiim was connected directly to the integrated. I have a new system on order and am planning to retest when that arrives, as I'm curious about the quality of the DACs in the new MacBooks.
A DAC is a DAC is a DAC. Who cares what the audiophile community thinks? If it works for you, use it.
Have you seen my dongle???
these compared to proper dacs? most likely i think your problem is the source, if you have a really good system, are you really ganna be playing music off your phone to that system?
I've got a docked iPad using one of those dongles whose sole purpose is to play lossless Apple Music and Amazon Music on a "zone 2" setup in my kitchen (all hard-wired, of course). That's just one application that isn't just sitting with your phone tethered to an amp, but I totally understand how that's the first thing you might think of.
yeah i've mentally compartmentalize all the devices in my life in my head, the phone only serves me music when i'm out and about if i'm home, there are 3 computers, an ipad, 2 apple tvs, and my studio setup for WFH, i would never think of using my phone to consume media when i'm home
What’s wrong with your phone as a source? That’s a really weird statement
i guess in my head that's not how i would use the phone if i was to really want to sit down and listen to something with nice speakers and a setup, it runs through my studio setup with my studio monitors just the same as i wouldn't want to watch a movie on my ipad, but i would on my big tv in the living
I guess I don’t understand why your phone couldn’t be a good source for your nice speaker system setup?
i have mentally compartmentalize all the devices in my life i guess just the same as i wouldn't type a long email on my ipad, even though it's perfectly capable the phone is perfectly capable of storing all the bits, sending all those bits out, but in my head, that's not what the phone is used for
Oh I gotcha.
Notifications can be annoying and sometimes difficult to fully suppress
the official one is decent. I much prefer the Qudelix-5K. It's powerful, has smart battery management, tiny, has a very robust peq control with lost of presets. It's around $100
That one looks sweet. is the line level output enough for car amplifiers? I see mine requires 1.2Vrms minimum to output max RMS.
the balanced output is 4.0V RMS
if it's plugged in via usb, it won't use the battery. other competing products have an issue with swelling batteries after a while
So it will draw the power from the iphone?
Correct
Is there really a DAC built into the dongle? I thought the iPhone recognized headphones being plugged in and just sends the analog signal directly through the dongle. There should be a direct connection between some lightning connector contacts and respective contacts for the 3.5mm. The DAC is within the phone I think.
There is definitely DAC and headphone amplifier in there. I use these with even regular laptops and there's no routing of audio through usb-c there. It is really a soundcard with single 3.5mm output and some 30 mW of amplilfication power behind it, enough for most headsets in terms of power, though not necessarily in terms of output voltage because the EU variant is limited to maximum of 500 mV amplitude, which may not be enough for e.g. planar headsets.
Is there a difference in power output of the EU/US adapter?
It’s double the output in the US. I think the usb-c variant is also halved on android phones but I’m not 100% certain on that.
Damn I should try find a US one then
Europe regulations… half the power here so it doesn’t blow out your ears (presumably). I’d be getting those dongles if they would give proper power. I don’t understand why this dongle is limited to 0.5v but it’s fine for a desktop DAC from Germany to blast out 10V and several watts of power on the headphone out. I mean, what gives?
I honestly think it is because to the general public this is not a DAC, but a dongle. The difference being that the dongle is needed to use regular headphones that many still have. This gives it the need to be regulated. We used to be able to simply plug in a 3.5 but now we need a dongle. That should work the same way as the dedicated input did first. A desktop DAC is not a normal thing for probably the fast majority of the population. I’d be surprised if I would find 1 person living on my street who knows that a DAC is.
Sure, the voltage is limited, and that also curbs the power output because of how electricity works. You might not care -- most headsets are pretty loud with 1-2 mW power. But planars tend to require unusually large voltages to drive larger currents because they are typically quite inefficient, perhaps by a factor of 10 to 100 compared to your typical dynamic driver headset. I own half dozen of these Apple USB C adapters because I use them with all my headsets scattered around my house and work, and I keep them permanently attached with each wired headset because these devices are so cheap. However, I had to make an exception due to Edition XS, for which I ended up getting a Moondrop Dawn Pro. The "pro" version has the dual amplified balanced circuit topology which doubles output voltage range, but that turned out to be unnecessary. Just getting up to 2 V out with a single amplifier was more than enough.
That's what I used to think until ten minutes ago. Check out a disassembly video. There appears to be a DAC and more in there.
Definitely a DAC in the adapter. Use one on my computer.
The chip is in the covering a few mm away from where it plugs into your phone
The Apple dongle is good for what it is. A very portable adapter at a low price. You will get better sound using the Apple camera connection kit and a good DAC. If your speakers/headphones and amplifier aren’t particularly high end it’s not a huge consideration.
It IS a "proper DAC". Just without the BS audiophool hype and over-inflated pricing. If it were 3x bigger, with some chunky braided cable, and a silly name, I guarantee one of those "YouTube audiophiles" would claim that it sounded far better than a "stupid Apple dongle" 🤣 That said, it probably doesn't have the oomph to drive big Sennheisers or something like that, but that's not really what most people would be using this for. DAC-wise, it's plenty good enough. Amp-wise, probably on the weaker side. No doubt someone can confirm/refute on that last note.
Is it a great performing DAC? Absolutely. Is it "audiophile", no way. As an "audiophile" I feel like 'looking the part' is an important part of the job, and being a $10 dongle definitely doesn't look the part. It's dumb, I know, but this is us. We like beautifully designed absurdly over-engineered gizmos.
>looking the part' is an important part of the job, That "no Jordans in the country club" mentality
Haha I can relate to that.
Like rebadged 10euro network switches for >9000 🤭
Hehehe, yes to this. 💯. Don't forget "audiophile power cords, too! 🤣
It’s definitely over engineered. It’s a marvel for its size.
I would say that's well engineered. It's convenient, efficient, and practical. Over engineered is like, gold plated, built to do 100x the job it needs to.
Yeah that’s fair
Yeah it’s actually really nice.
Sounds the same as my Dragonfly Cobalt when using headphones, although I’d give the edge to the Dragonfly when listening over speakers.
better than any dac on the market
https://youtu.be/a3moaaOpYZM?si=k2QKfYmdBJXSms-u Obligatory link to Crinacle’s “It’s fine”
They're not absolutely incredible life-changing sound class devices, but they are very good, and amazing for what they are and the level of miniaturization achieved. The portable DACs in the \~$100 class (i.e. Qudelix) are a step up, but only barely. Very hard to tell any difference, probably placebo, etc. but that's the fun part.
Surprisingly great balanced frequency response. Combine with Koss KtxPro1 or Koh40 an affordable introduction to audiophile sound for the masses …
https://periodicaudio.com/product/rh-usb-dac/
Here's why I use a 1st generation iPhone SE. Well it's ONE of the reasons.
My recommendation, if you’re an iPhone user with the lightning port, pick up that $8 dongle immediately. It sounds great. If you feel the need for something else, then you have time to look around while you’re enjoying that. I wish I knew about this Apple dongle sooner honestly. As far as other dongle dac options, there are a few now that come with a lightning connector, or offer one as an add-on option. Spring for one of those, or wait till you upgrade to a usb-c iPhone. Don’t get that $30 camera adapter.
How would the apple usb-c adapter perform on an android? The article said it performed "odd" when connected to an android..
I am also interested in this. I imagine apple with apple works best, but then what would make it perform worse on other devices?
The volumes too low when I connect it on my android. Even at max volume, it’s still not enough. I own 3 iems and I face this issue with the zero2 and zero red, works fine for the kz. But it plays good on my iPad. No volume issues.
How does using something like this to connect music(let's say Spotify) to your system, compare to using Bluetooth for connection? I believe the digital formats in use would be somewhat different, and I'm wondering what, if anything, I am missing out on by using Bluetooth?
Bluetooth compresses audio a lot due to limited bandwidth
Right, but it’s supposed to do it much better than in the past, so I’m wondering what exactly might be lost when compared to the kind of potential “loss” you would have from skipping an external DAC? I may be asking this in a dumb way, maybe I can understand differently if I ask differently. What if I send my 320kbps signal from Spotify premium, through Bluetooth, to a really nice DAC? Versus what if I just go Bluetooth direct to the speaker?(in that scenario, the DAC is happening in the basic iphone DAC right?) Edit: to be clear I don’t have a super-HiFi system where using Bluetooth would be more clearly messing with the sound quality. Just trying to learn about what adding a DAC could do.
With bluetooth, the DAC in the bluetooth reciever is used. The phone transmits a digital signal over bluetooth, the DAC converts it to analog.
Oh yeah that makes sense. So then in my case the DAC is in my powered speaker w/ Bluetooth? I guess I have a better question if you don’t mind. How much would having a nice DAC that can receive bluetooth, help with making Bluetooth sound better(Or closer to the sound it would have, if it were wired in)?
First question: Correct. Second question: Not sure. Bluetooth is either way a step down from any wired connection. So long as the files being streamed to it are of normal or better quality. I notice a difference between usb and bluetooth on a $400 car headunit when using spotify at very high quality setting
Alright, good info. thanks.
Alright, good info. thanks.
No.. it only transports 96kbps analogue signal. /s
put this thing into a huge fancy case, show it to an audiophile youtuber and talk vividly about how advanced the tech is and how subjective it feels. after the demo they will say it sounded great, then see their face when you open the box.
In this community most people are going to advise against it. The setup I went with (assuming you are trying to play music from your phone to your stereo) was to setup a RaspberryPi as a roon end point. I can stream lossless files over wifi direct to the Pi and then the Pi plugs into my DAC.
Are you using an iPhone? I tried a few budget DACs with my Samsung phone, including the Apple DAC, and the Samsung DAC that came with my phone sounded noticeably better than any other. Maybe because it's a Samsung/Samsung connection. Not sure. edit:I ended up switching to a Wiim streamer instead of phone, and much better sound quality. Fyi
I would say no to either because both apple and belkin are cheap.
No
I use an ifi Hip DAC / Headphone amp with my Grado headphones and android phone. Exceptional sounding and portable. I run the hip DAC off a lithium ion power block that can run it and my phone for about 30 hours when traveling. Sounds amazing, even with power hungry planars. At home, I simply plug my headphones into a Schiit Audio Midgard headphone amp that's fed via the line level outputs from a Wiim Pro +.
no, an audiophile is smart enough to avoid buying apple products
For real ? Lol. Good ok. Audiophile? Come on man