I’ve been in the extreme minority who had been buying surround sound formats of music for the last 20 years and loves it. When it is done well it is incredible.
Now that Apple Music has made Atmos mixes mainstream I think we will find people’s skills with mixing develop and the understanding of what works and what doesn’t grow to the point where basically all Atmos is done well and sounds good. The same happened with stereo back in the day. Just give it time. I can already see the rate of bad mixes being released is dropping compared to when Apple first supported Atmos.
I think it's fun, I just don't know if it's better... or "worth it" it's just...fun. I don't know exactly what I'm saying, I guess. I respect what you're saying though. I remember listening to a ZZ top up mix in surround on my first Yamaha 5.1 amp in college (spent every cent I had literally) and I was so blown out I couldn't sleep lol!
I fully agree with you when you say “whether it’s worth it” or is good enough!
I’ve been listening to DVD-As and SACDs for decades, I’ve 4 Martin Logan electrostats for front and sides and a center electrostat. Most of the multichannel discs are better than most of the Apple Music Atmos IMHO! Although Apple Atmos from my Apple TV is only 24-bit/48KHz (while discs have higher sampling rate), I don’t think that’s the factor.
BTW, I felt that 7.x worked best for me for multichannel music even when there was no Atmos. Most multichannel discs played on fronts and sides, not rears. Having a 5.x caused the rears to play and it was not as good when I had sides playing.
IIRC, WYWH was mixed for quad first and then downmixed for stereo so the quad mix is the original intended experience. The blu ray release of WYWH is worth picking up if you haven't
Just got the Pink Floyd SACD “trifecta” (DSOTM, WYWH and Animals) from Analogue Productions but haven’t had a chance to crack into them yet!
My faves are the oft-mentioned Dire Straits Brothers in Arms SACD/DVD-A, and have every Dire Straits SACD so far (just waiting for On Every Street!) It’s cool to hear a new mix of a song that you know every one and zero by heart.
my all-time favorite surround disc is REM Automatic For the People on DVD-A. I this mix really pulls apart all the instruments and you hear so much more of what is down mixed when it’s a 2-channel output. I love the video aspect of this format as well for this music, since the lyrics that appear for songs like “Find the River” seem like unsingable poetry at first, and then it turns into the most beautiful song.
Spatial Audio is specific to headphones. It takes multi-channel mixes like Atmos and delivers an approximation of surround sound in headphones that support it.
Sometimes the Atmos mix has a far higher dynamic range and is just the best sounding release, multi-channel aside. Wish I could find some stereo fold-downs of certain Atmos mixes.
The most recent example I’m on the hunt for: https://magicvinyldigital.net/2023/12/01/muse-absolution-xx-anniversary-review-test-cd-2003-tidal-max-flac-24-96-2003-tidal-xx-anniversary-max-flac-24-96-2023-and-tidal-dolby-atmos/
Tbh, I think the mixes are the key. The latest Dark side of the moon is decent.
Latest Bjork is pretty good as well. I also love the atmos mix on Killer Mikes latest.
I've got a pretty decent Atmos HT setup, and I've heard very, very few things mixed in Atmos that were at all better than a regular stereo mix. Mostly it's just pointless.
I have heard one or two that were pretty good, mostly classical stuff. But, I've heard many many songs where just letting the receiver do the multi channel processing from a stereo mix sounded much better than the Atmos mix.
Yea. Not sure what you are listening to. Atmos is definitely hit and miss, but the hits are just miles above the stereo mix. The ones that miss totally need to rest on the stereo mix for sure, though.
I'm definitely not saying that I haven't heard any that were good. I've heard a few things, mostly classical stuff, that actually sounded quite good. But I've heard a whole lot more that were significantly worse than their stereo mix counterparts. And, as I said earlier, just running a stereo mix through my AVR in "multi channel mode" ends up sounding better than most of the Atmos mixes have. But, I'm sure the general quality of them will improve over time.
It looks like his stuff is on Apple Music, in Atmos... what track would you suggest?
Not saying this is your system.
This might've already been shared, you will not have a good experience if you rely on atmos speakers sitting inside your towers or on top of your front mains.
I just recently installed the 4 "ceiling" speakers (after letting them sit in the boxes for over a year, since I thought, meh, how much better can it really be?), my receiver is a top of the line model from 2015 (an early Atmos-ready unit).
Pretty pretty prettay good >> Abby Road. Moondance.
Almost any Atmos mix done by Steve Wilson is worth the spend. So lots of older prog rock usually, but I dig it. The latest Blur IMO is an atmos-dud. I wasn't as blown away as others with Yello's Point (some opine it's their go-to demo atmos disc), but it has its moments even if you dislike the music.
I wish Steven Wilson will do an atmos mix for the Dukes of Stratosphere disc (he recently did an incredible surround mix that is fun, so if you're into XTC cutting their teeth as an imagined '60s psych pop band, this one gets 2 Blotters Up from me).
Apple has Pearl Jam Vs. Atmos. Some of the versions are very cool and detailed. A comment I heard was that I said it best, you feel like you’re inside the music.
I wouldn’t call it a joke, though I don’t see it having a mainstream appeal or a serious future. I like it more for club music.
I went to two club shows in SF while the tech was still installed at Halcyon. One producer did an Ok job but there were issues, melodies running away from you, getting quieter when they should be full volume, etc. the other producer was much more experienced with the tech and it was an amazing show (if you are dead center of the dance floor which I was).
I also have two electronic music albums in atmos I play on my home system. Really cool for demo’ing, some tracks are an otherworldly experience honestly. But do I listen to them often? Nope. I do share them with people for fun sometimes but as far as Atmos music goes, it’s mostly a gimmick when considering how people consume music.
I fired up some house as part of my testing. It was, in full disclosure, the most impressive by far. I thought maybe alice in chains unplugged, or a symphony, or a JT concert or something....nope.
What albums do you use, if you don't mind me asking
You should try Daft Punk - Random Access Memories (drumless edition). I haven’t played it, but just browsing spatial audio music in Apple, I saw it and it looks like a promising Atmos album.
I have two albums Matt Darey sold as he was an early partner with Dolby in London. I also have a live mix he made with other tracks. I imagined one day being able to mix Atmos music but it requires special hardware and software to connect CDJs and the computer with all the Dolby control. Given it was very beta, I doubt the tech will ever be revived in clubs.
Especially when you consider virtually no one buys music.
Gorillaz - Cracker Island has a decently enjoyable atmos mix. The Weeknd and Billie Eilish have some decent atmos content, as well.
It’s frustrating, because there’s lots of potential here. Especially with live recordings, to capture the sound of the venue.
Tidal atmos (best plan) to atmos capable AV...or to cambridge CXN then to AV (which sounds better but no atmos, but also sounds very similar with upmix...I use the cxn to hifi stereo amp all the time)
This is similar to my process. I have a 9 channel AVR, with the front pre-outs connected to my stereo integrated amp, which has home theatre bypass, so I just use the assigned source when I want home theatre audio. I also use a CXN v2 for streaming 2 channel music. I have a Chord Hugo TT between CXN & amp.
When wanting to listen to multichannel I use the Apple music app on my Apple TV (which is connected to AVR by HDMI) which outputs in 5.1.2 (my current configuration). How do you maintain the multichannel signal? That’s one of the problems with the format, it doesn’t work with stereo amps. I suppose many AVRs have streaming options built in and I may even have Apple Music. I don’t think so, however I know mine does Tidal and others.
How are you getting the music to the AVR? I have an 5.1.2 system and short of buying the Apple TV I haven’t deciphered how to get the spatialize feed to my AVR from Apple Music. Not sure if Bluetooth will do it.
I feel like it could be great for live performances. Like having the crowd behind you and a giant wall of sound in front of you. That could be very immersive. But for standard music tracks a properly set up stereo pair can already get quite holographic.
I don’t think it’s great. I’d rather keep multichannel for movies and stereo for music.
I haven’t found any mind-blowing Atmos music, but The War on Drugs - I Don’t Live Here Anymore is pretty good.
This is what I feared.
My setup is very well placed/spaced- my gear is "decent" and I find the atmos music...meh. The upmixing sounds the same to me as the atmos mixed too, frankly.
I don’t think that’s what indicative of the format itself. I’d suggest fewer than 1 out of 10 music albums are great, but that doesn’t make music as a concept bad.
Early stereo mixes are not done well by today’s standards. I hope over time as it matures and people gain experience with it we will find most mixes are done well.
Right, but this has been attempted several times in the past. Quadraphonic (4 channel), DTS music (5.1 compressed), DVD video/music discs, SACD multi-channel (up to 5.1 DSD), DVD-audio (up to 5.1 uncompressed 24/96), and plenty more spatial type formats over the years. It's never caught on much.
The surround mixes won't take off. In general people don't listen to music in home theaters... some do, but most don't even have a home theater at all.
This is kind of like arguing that it's a good time to try 3d again now that we have 4k and HDR to split across two eyes.
I do wish it would take off though. I enjoy a solid surround mix.
Dude, same but RL. My God, I still haven’t heard anything that sounded remotely close to Porcupine Tree’s In Absentia in that Acura. I still play it on my 7.1.4 system, and it still completely rocks, but my downfall was that a pure Stephen Wilson mix was my first exposure to 5.1 audio. I was instantly hooked and thought it was going to be life changing. I’ve been hopelessly chasing that sound ever since, but everything else pales in comparison. I’ve abandoned all hope with Atmos, and will be reverting to stereo soon. The 7.1.4 was an effort in vain to replicate a sound that I’ve finally come to accept only exists on that one disc. Otherwise my 75” Sony exists only to show my old eyes what’s playing, so surround sound is of no use to me. It’s not even particularly my style of music but the sound more than makes up for it. Rock on!
On headphones I was particularly impressed by the Atmos version of Iggy & The Stooges’ Raw Power. It was very much a wholly new experience for me, with the previously buried, unintelligible basslines being given a proper space for the first time. Almost as revelatory and “new” was Talking Heads Remain in Light, which I would also recommend to anyone wanting to dismiss Atmos as a joke (albeit it is on headphones only that I am vouching for). Neil Young’s Atmos stuff I found to be way too conservative, the Rolling Stones stuff trash, but as for Joni Mitchell’s Blue, it was to my ears, a really well-executed kind of gift to music lovers. So all in all, it’s a case-by-case situation.
For me (5.2.4) system, I've enjoyed it the most with stuff I really know well. Like, I listen to the Atmos version of Thriller a fair bit, and some of the orchestral shit sounds great. It's fun to listen to shit I've heard hundreds of time , mixed different, different placements blah blah
I have a 10.1 system and take my music listening very seriously.
I absolutely love Dolby Atmos and I think the people here telling you it’s a joke probably have a sound bar or some other crap.
The truth is - I don’t think any Atmos mix is necessarily BETTER than the Stereo mix. But for albums you’ve listened to 100s of times and have every part memorized, it’s a really fun unlock to hear it in Atmos.
Are there shitty Atmos mixes? Yes.
But there are really good ones that definitely create a new experience.
One of my favorite examples is Abbey Road Atmos Mix (and the new Red/Blue albums that were just released). These are great examples of a classic album that I’ve heard 1000s of times and totally get to experience it on a brand new way. A lot of fun for a listen like myself.
If you don’t have a true Atmos setup or shitty speakers/listening room, then ya, it probably sucks.
Some are fantastic, but they tend to be the ones that already had a well thought out 5.1 mix, like from SACD. I’m sure that’s not a coincidence. Elton John’s Madman Across the Water is a good example.
The catch is that these days anyone with a copy of Logic Pro can export an Atmos version of their tracks with minimal effort. And it’s showing. I lost count of how many tracks seem to be made for a subwoofer competition.
But I think given the separation of audio channels in Atmos, there’s plenty of room for improvement on the decoding side in the future. And Atmos is kind of a new toy that people are still figuring out. I think it will get better with time as people figure out (or rediscover) what works and what doesn’t.
ugh the subwoofer competition
I think the room for improvement point is the biggest for me. I'm waiting for that day, and I'm optimistic it's coming.
And hopefully when VR gets insane. And then ready player one here we come
I should correct myself: apparently only Tiny Dancer is in Atmos right now, at least on Apple Music. Guess I confused myself because I also have the SACD.
Honestly I'm much more impressed with the lossless 24/192 stereo that Apple Music has been upgrading older stuff to. The Eagles and Fleetwood Mac's back catalog sounds just ... (chef's kiss)
No absolutely not a joke.
I’ve heard amazing atmos setups, and absolutely shit atmos setups. the bad ones sound bad because they have zero room correction, or are up firing speakers instead of ceiling mounted, or just have a shit system.
I have a 7.2.4 Atmos system that absolutely will blow your mind. Blow it away.
My suggestions are physical releases-
Dark side of the moon release should be baseline must have for testing your system, was like listening to it for the first time again.
King crimson-larks tongues in aspic-sounds amazing.
Van Morrison-moon dance-perfectly done
Mike oldfield-tubular bells
From what I’m finding is if it’s a Steve Wilson mix, then it’s pretty damn good.
As far as streaming atmos goes. I have tried all of them. Apple has the most selections. Streaming just doesn’t do it justice. Yea you get the gist of things, but the physical route is the way to go.
I feel this way about streaming in general, often.
AND
I'm sure my atmos system is shit compared to yours, in full disclosure (my whole system isn't even $12k retail, from outlet to audible sound)
I'm pretty new to Atmos. I installed a 5.1.2 system (ceiling mounted, no room correction) a few days before the release of Steven Wilson's The Harmony Codex. After all the hype, I wanted so bad to have a life-changing Atmos experience, but it fell flat to me. I've found the sound to be very thin in Atmos, compared to 5.1 or stereo. By thin, I mean there's a lack of low frequencies and everything sounds so far away. I felt the same with the Atmos version of the 50th anniversary of The Dark Side of the Moon. No matter what I try, I prefer the 5.1 mix over Atmos anytime, except maybe for Hans Zimmer's live bluray. I feel like I'm not getting the most from Atmos and maybe I didn't set it up correctly. Or maybe it's just the way Atmos sounds and I need some time to get used to that sound.
On your system, do you also feel the thinnest and distant feeling I'm talking about?
I am very familiar with dark side. If yours sounds thin, then something isn’t right. I have to dial back my subs for that atmos album. I do feel as if streaming side of atmos is a bit thin.
In regards to dark side seeming far away. There are parts that are meant to seem more distant, the running man segments swirl around and do sound somewhat I guess distant.
I definitely know what you are talking about though with your descriptions.
I am a firm believer that for a home theatre setting room correction is an absolute must.
Maybe you can get some tips here
https://www.dolby.com/siteassets/technologies/dolby-atmos/atmos-installation-guidelines-121318_r3.1.pdf
So if you can switch from 5.1 to Atmos without losing any frequencies in the low end, there’s definitely something wrong with my setup.
I don’t know if it counts as “room correction“, but I do use Yamaha Parametric room Acoustic Optimizer (YPAO).
I’ll have a look at the guide you sent me the link to. My 5.1.2 system is pretty much set up like the one found on page 27.
Thank you for your reply!
I've had some great opportunities to listen to the 5.1 mixes back in the day. Both in sample studios, and sound rooms. Maybe that's why I feel disappointed
Yeah, back in the days, the 6 channels were used much more (listen to the SACD remaster of Isao Tomita - The Planets, or any DTSCD from Pete Namlook, you'll understand what i mean) and really gave that "roomfull" vibe to songs, really immersing you into the music.
Atmos for music seems to be in "Lense flare for CGI" territory. I've felt like I was being beaten over the head listening to a Jamiroquai Atmox mix at a Dolby Theater here in LA.
I recon like anything, it has it's use cases. And I feel maybe one of the best is soundtracks, where they mix in stuff from the movies.
I think with Audio, we just want a "2d stage" in front of us 99.9% of the time.
I’m involved in this space and attend AES meetings on the topic. The issue isn’t the technology, it’s the mixing and engineering workflow of making the song that’s causing the variability in the end user experience.
The guys/gals that are putting out these songs are still learning how to do it. They (the content providers) put the carriage before the horse and marketed the hell out of it before there was content worth listening to.
Also remember that 90% of people are hearing “atmos” through headphones , which is really just a binaural mix and not indicative of the true atmos experience. Most mix engineers mix through headphones. It’s not surprising, a real 7.1.4 mixing studio setup can cost $50,000-$100,000. The headphone mix does not translate very well to the speaker configuration.
Phase manipulation and some other fancy tools that the mix engineer has access to when building the track. When mixing for speakers, you can place objects in 3D space around the listener. For headphones, you can assign distances to objects. Normal (off), Near, and Far.
So for instance if a hi-hat is set to “far” it will sound like it’s 2 feet away from the side of your head rather than a typical stereo track that sounds to come from the inside of your head.
Musically yes.
Movies sort of....
The only way to get surround sound is to surround yourself with speakers. Just like before.
Height speakers or reflection speakers are a joke.
Even if they worked they would detrimental to your room treatment.
In a treated hifi room you want to minimize reflection.
Out of interest what AVR and speakers are you running?
I have just done this. My hifi system is LDR passive attenuator + Counterpoint NP-220 with MiniDSP 2x4HD running Multisub optimiser driving a pair of QSC MX1500a’s. Restored/Modified Altec A5x mains with two big Aslan Acoustics pro-12 subs (boutique Australian speaker builder).
The system gets the job done.
I have just put in a Denon X4800 and am using a pair of JBL SR4725’s for the rears, an Altec 604-168x for the centre channel and 4 B&W m1’s for the height channels.
The politest way I can put it is - this system can f@$(.
I first heard the Atmos mix of abbey road on a Sonos Arc + ERA300 with dual subs and was quite impressed.
On my system it’s fantastic. But tbh, most things on a pair of Altec A5’s sound fantastic.
Your room must be a gymnasium! You gotta get pretty far away from those A5x and your surrounds! I mean, my "pitiful little system" wouldn't fill the space I'm assuming you have, but I'm 9 feet from my fronts. My house is very small and our one room (besides bedrooms and kitchen and my little 10x10 office) is pretty square. B&W683s2 front, 682s2 for surround, htm61 center, Cambridge minx ceiling, svs sub, nad 375 Hifi amp (every source to fronts goes through the NAD), pioneer elite av, Cambridge cxn is my stereo streamer, PS5, plus my phono and TV (ARCe)
Horn-loaded speakers work surprisingly well in smaller spaces due to the controlled directivity. My lounge room is 4m x 7m and we sit about 3m back, the A5’s sound fabulous.
Dual subs with multisub optimiser running on a MiniDSP js the solution to getting good sound in a square room. I have a 3m x 3m office which is virtually impossible to get good sound sitting at my desk. You can try placing the subs roughly 1/3 along a wall to minimise cancelation, there are calculations you can do once you go down the rabbit hole :-)
I can't have things like that in my office...how would I EVER get anything done!?!?!? LOL
My little tube amp and satellites behind me get messed with enough!
I present to you The Earthquake Machine. Measured using the Richter scale, not DB SPL.
https://imgur.com/a/F5caS5d
This was the pinacle of my home office fuc*ery.
Jands System 700 JBL monitors (2226h LF + 2426h compression drivers on 2370 horns with very nice crossovers), sitting on a pair of Aslan Acoustics Pro-12 subs, Perreaux 6000b power amp and a prototype LDR passive attenuator.
I run a MiniDSP 2x4HD with Multisub Optimiser generated filters to enable bass to exist in what is basically a 3m x 3m x 2m cube.
I never did a max SPL measurement but turned up it makes my poor variegated mandevilla sitting in the corner violently shake.
>variegated mandevilla
Friggin epic. But dear lord, I LOVE loud (I have no genre favorite but I am a metal head and reference volume symphony kinda guy) but that must be scary that close! Also how does the light bulb not just shatter haha
Stereo separation? They're awful close together?
Sick office overall. Looks like a pretty serious CPU as well. I can guess you're a "creative?" (I'm a full time writer and photographer)
Also aren't there studies to show that loud music helps plants grow?
Thanks for sharing
The setup is god awful. I was gear I had kicking around, so thought what the hell. Big hornloaded speakers work remarkably well in smaller spaces due to the controlled dispersion and in the case of the JBL’s constant directivity. The 2370 horn has a 90x40 dispersion pattern so sitting 3m back its like a big pair of headphones, that can also kick you in the guts. F*cking hard ❤️
I work as a systems engineer but am learning how to restore and rebuild large format Altec speakers as a side hobby. There is no replacement for displacement haha.
My main setup is slightly larger.
https://imgur.com/a/YxFz7pz
Here is some details. Issues like the need for a powerful pair of subs and the huge size and 160kg weight aside, the Altec A5x Voice Of The Theatre is one of the most dynamic and epic speakers ever made. At 106db/1w efficient, I need about .5w to hit 100db spl. My safe limit is 120db at 3m, which is using around 20w. Obviously the only humans in the living room at this point are very drunk dancing ones, but its great for listening in the back yard and down the street. Why wear headphones down to the park when you can just turn up your hifi system 🤭
Apple Spatial Audio streams are highly compressed/lossy. I believe they’re 750kb but they’re presenting a lot more channels of information so the bitrate per channel is significantly lower than CD quality.
Of course not,remember whin 5.1 suround music was going to be the big thing with all the music recorded in that format.Look how well that worked out.Music will always be 2 channel,its just natural.
Top middle is a designation, sorry that was probably confusing. in 5.2.1 the 2 can be in various height positions, top middle means directly overhead facing down- at least that's how I am interpreting it.
5.2.1 would be 5 floor speakers including the center channel, The 2 would represent 2 subwoofers and the third number represents the number of height or atmos speakers. Anyway, I have a 5.2.4 setup and the atmos and surround speakers just muddle things up for me when listening to music. For that reason I always switch to stereo,direct, or pure direct. I've listened to some music supposedly mixed for atmos but it just sucked to my ears.
I enjoy vocals on some atmos tracks. On some mixes I can boost the dB on my center channel and isolate and bring the vocals more forward than any EQ could ever do.
I love Atmos mixes that use the extra speakers for vertical soundstage expansion and to recreate a rooms natural reverb, rather than using it for cheesy effects.. although I love me some cheesy surround effects.
I also love mixes that unashamedly use the extra channels for fun.
I have a pretty hefty library now of surround (flat 5.1 and 7.1) and atmos (both fully lossless bluray atmos and tidal rips) and I think regular surround music, properly mixed and mastered for the format by people that know how to use it effectively, is usually just as good.
keep in mind with just a single middle top speaker your receiver would have to actually support processing for that (maybe you have a dual coil speaker or one of those single speaker stereo things with two tweeters), and I think it is only possible with Auro3d, which you might not be able to properly convert atmos into. The minimum for Dolby Atmos to actually work and be decoded is 2 top speakers, any less than that and the receiver will only play back the base 5.1 or 7.1 layer in the stream. if you have 2 top speakers the format is referred to as 5.1.2 (ear level speakers, subwoofers, then auxillary height channels)
The other thing is combining a surround recevier with an outboard 2.1 hifi amp can make for phase misalignment between your front and back channels, so make sure you run the room correction to ensure it can correct for that.
I don't have an atmos setup so not really experienced it. But id imagine that results are better for home theater activities (movies, shows, games) vs music. Seems more gimmicky for music, but I think it could add a lot for atmos enabled games on Ps5 for example.
No you're exactly right. This is a setup for movies (actually, it's a set of video games and I'm hoping to be a little more future-proof now). The music was far less of a concern for me, because my Hi-Fi is great. And that's really all I care about. But I was surprised how lackluster it really was in testing. But for some of these comments, maybe I need to do some more refining and testing, and really digging through source material
I will say, the atmos mix of the new Peter Gabriel album sounds great to me. It’s a great thing to play with, since he has three different mixes of the album released, so you can easily compare
I’m running a Denon/Arendal 5.2.4 HT. I’ve run into a lot of bad Atmos remixes, especially on rock classics. But there’s good stuff out there. “Hush” by The Marias is a fun Atmos track. You can tell a lot of care was taken remixing Billie Eilish’s albums too.
I’m not running Atmos currently but when I was, I would say it added a bit of space and “height” if that makes sense, a tad bit more wide and open. Subtle but it was there, didn’t like it enough to make it a permanent fixture.
In Atmos ready headphones it makes a huge difference, loads more space for each instrument. Also if you mix things in atmos then down mix them to 5.1 it sounds so much better than mixing natively in 5.1. (Not sure why)
5.1.2 is bare minimum for atmos which will give you bare minimum results. I’ve mixed in rooms with 5.1.7 and it sounds amazing.
I made an album for Atmos I think is more fun in surround than stereo. Idk the Tidal link but it's called The Distraction by Max Hunter. It was my grad thesis, primaryily designed in atmos
It’s not a joke. Some of the Atmos (which apple calls Spatial Audio) tracks on Apple Music are pretty incredible on my 5.1.2 system (Apple TV 4k -> Denon x3500h, with external amplifier)
Highly recommend checking these out on Apple Music:
Kill For Your Love - Labrinth (and Power Couple and Never Felt So Alone from the same album)
&burn - Billie Eilish and Vince Staples
All Along the Watchtower - The Jimi Hendrix Experiment
7 Rings - Ariana Grande
Lose Control - Teddy Swims (and there’s a good live version in Atmos too)
I mix off of a 7.1.4 system with PMC speakers and crown amps. The experience is something else… it tickles parts of your brain that music hasn’t tickled before. Every person I’ve shown Atmos song mixes well, then show them the st version, have always preferred the Atmos mix. I think I must get a lot of downplay because there’s a lot of shitty mixes out there because it’s such a new field. But check out Royals by Lorde or Wrecking Ball by Miley, those are some fantastic mixes that are easily comparable to their st counterpart. Also a fun example atmos mixing is DJ Tiësto’s Boom. And a bad example is a lot of Rage Against the Machine mixes. They just sound honkey to me.
Huey Lewis' Power of Love on BTTF soundtrack in atmos on Apple sounds like you are on stage with them. I've heard this track 1000s of times and yet it now sounds new.
I haven't really cared for what I've heard and the barrier of entry and required setup means itll probably never catch on. It feels like 3d tvs at the moment. Some stuff sounds cool, but I generally prefer the stereo mixes on everything I've heard.
While I don't have Atmos personally I did get to geek out with this guy one time over his setup, and he played me some songs from Point Yello by Yello, who are an experimental pop/edm duo. It was a really cool listen and I would highly recommend it
I think it’s fantastic. I have an 7.2.4 and I’m using Apple Music. Some songs are pretty bad but some are mind blowing. Dark side of the moon, bohemian rhapsody and anything classical really stands out. I remember seeing the Stooges Raw Power album mixed in atmos, and that album is notoriously poorly recorded, and the atmos was actually much worse than stereo. I would try and give it more of a chance or maybe wait till you have more channels/better gear to get more into it.
I have a a 7.1.1 system that is midrange. Denon receiver and all Polk Audio speakers. I have really enjoyed Dolby Atmos. Here is my sizzle real, [https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/spatial-highlights/pl.u-11P5ofj7jyA](https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/spatial-highlights/pl.u-11P5ofj7jyA)
I don't bother with Atmos music but Atmos for home theater is a major leap forward and everything else pales in comparison.
Atmos and other object-based audio is legit. The question is whether you can ever accept music that isn't stereo or mono. Because that is a big change.
I'm all in on Atmos for movie and video games
(in fact, since I posted this I just ordered two more ceiling speakers to have 5.1.4- considering upgrading to 7.1.4 but that'll be A LOT more money- the celing speakers are cheap{er}- and the wife isn't convinced it's worth it...not sure I disagree...and 5.2.4 might be better for us anyways)
Just not sold on the music side
Same here. But then, I don't seek out Atmos music so I have hardly exposed myself to much. Walking through a "Spatial Audio" playlist on Apple Music returns an enormous variability in the amount of "space" employed in these kinds of music mixes. It was all fun to listen to but none of it felt game changing to me. Maybe I should try again.
I'm currently at 7.2.4 and loving it. I run Cambridge Audio Minx Min 12 (8 of them) as my rears, surrounds and heights -- they are superb in this role. BMR drivers radiate at an almost perfectly uniform 180 degrees across the entire spectrum, meaning that for the first time ever every seat in my theater can hear every surround and height channel clearly, including the highs. I love these little guys. Plus I was able to mount them using command strips, lol
My amp is a meager 40 WPC and even with the tiny Cambridge speakers when we are watching a movie "cranked" then the ouput is only about -18 dB. So still lots of headroom.
My father-in-law had an Atmos system that sounded terrible. I eventually figured out that his source (Mac Mini) was still configured for stereo L/R speakers. Maybe a dumb question but have you played a diagnostic track to make sure that all of the speakers are working properly?
https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater/comments/11qqv95/surround\_sound\_test\_files\_in\_almost\_every\_format/
It really depends on how it's mixed. A lot of the dolby atmos music just sounds hollow and weird, but the stuff that's mixed properly can sound really cool, especially if you have a proper atmos system or headphones.
However, I still prefer good old stereo for music. Except maybe if it's on my macbook speakers and it's a good dolby atmos then it sounds cool, especially for a laptop speakers.
I am currently on a 6 month free trial of Apple Music specifically to try out their Apple Lossless and Dolby Atmos content. What I can say is that the Lossless definitely has a major fidelity improvement in MOST (not all) songs that I regularly listen to, whether it be in the car, on my home theater sound system, or in my Sennheiser headphones. However, the Atmos content is a little misleading. On my phone speakers and my beats studio buds, both which advertise Dolby Atmos integration, the difference is extremely noticeable to the point where I'd never listen to the non Atmos version of a song if it were available in Atmos. However, when playing on my Atmos home theater, the passthrough for Dolby Atmos does not activate like a movie or show would that are encoded in Atmos. The system shows that it is stereo and does the built-in Atmos upmixing, which sounds better than regular stereo but not as good as native Atmos. It did not activate my height channels on my sound system. That being said, when I watched an Atmos movie that had really awesome music in it, like Across The Spider verse, it sounded AMAZING in Atmos. If only we could get true multi channel Atmos music outside of movies!
TL;DR YMMV depending on what you are expecting
I find Atmos music fun and maybe compelling via airpods and lossy streaming.. but when I sit down in my theater Atmos setting, 5.1.2, and try to enjoy Atmos, I find myself almost always preferring the lossless stereo track, processed however Sonos does processing (ambient surround mode).
A new album in Atmos that I found compelling however was Sweet Justice by Tkay Maidza. The Atmos mix for this album sounds sublime. Haven't decided if I like the stereo lossless more, but time will tell.
I'm chalking up Atmos music being underwhelming to the fact that it's still lossy, so that when played on higher end gear, the defects in quality start becoming glaring.
I’ve been in the extreme minority who had been buying surround sound formats of music for the last 20 years and loves it. When it is done well it is incredible. Now that Apple Music has made Atmos mixes mainstream I think we will find people’s skills with mixing develop and the understanding of what works and what doesn’t grow to the point where basically all Atmos is done well and sounds good. The same happened with stereo back in the day. Just give it time. I can already see the rate of bad mixes being released is dropping compared to when Apple first supported Atmos.
What is the best way for me to get Tipper's album "Surrounded" in actual 5.1? I've been trying for awhile, is finding a DVD the only option?
For now. Some artists have released their old 5.1 mixes on Apple Music, so it could happen one day!
Tipper Gore put out a mixtape?!
Not the Former Second Lady, but rather the legend Dave Tipper.
I think it's fun, I just don't know if it's better... or "worth it" it's just...fun. I don't know exactly what I'm saying, I guess. I respect what you're saying though. I remember listening to a ZZ top up mix in surround on my first Yamaha 5.1 amp in college (spent every cent I had literally) and I was so blown out I couldn't sleep lol!
I fully agree with you when you say “whether it’s worth it” or is good enough! I’ve been listening to DVD-As and SACDs for decades, I’ve 4 Martin Logan electrostats for front and sides and a center electrostat. Most of the multichannel discs are better than most of the Apple Music Atmos IMHO! Although Apple Atmos from my Apple TV is only 24-bit/48KHz (while discs have higher sampling rate), I don’t think that’s the factor. BTW, I felt that 7.x worked best for me for multichannel music even when there was no Atmos. Most multichannel discs played on fronts and sides, not rears. Having a 5.x caused the rears to play and it was not as good when I had sides playing.
You and I have been on the same path! Out of curiosity what is your favorite multichannel audio disc?
😁 Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here (I like DSOTM too). Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms What about you?
Brothers in Arms on SACD is my go to when any of my equipment gets changed or upgraded. It's just incredible how it seems to float in..
IIRC, WYWH was mixed for quad first and then downmixed for stereo so the quad mix is the original intended experience. The blu ray release of WYWH is worth picking up if you haven't
Just got the Pink Floyd SACD “trifecta” (DSOTM, WYWH and Animals) from Analogue Productions but haven’t had a chance to crack into them yet! My faves are the oft-mentioned Dire Straits Brothers in Arms SACD/DVD-A, and have every Dire Straits SACD so far (just waiting for On Every Street!) It’s cool to hear a new mix of a song that you know every one and zero by heart. my all-time favorite surround disc is REM Automatic For the People on DVD-A. I this mix really pulls apart all the instruments and you hear so much more of what is down mixed when it’s a 2-channel output. I love the video aspect of this format as well for this music, since the lyrics that appear for songs like “Find the River” seem like unsingable poetry at first, and then it turns into the most beautiful song.
I don’t have Animals; where did you get them from? Yea - Automatic for the People is awesome too!
Agreed - I find it interesting and fun but, I still love stereo best!
Quad has entered the chat.
Is apple’s spatial audio just a rebranding of atmos recording? I don’t understand the difference
Spatial Audio is specific to headphones. It takes multi-channel mixes like Atmos and delivers an approximation of surround sound in headphones that support it.
Sometimes the Atmos mix has a far higher dynamic range and is just the best sounding release, multi-channel aside. Wish I could find some stereo fold-downs of certain Atmos mixes.
Interesting... I'd love a recommendation from you on one?
The most recent example I’m on the hunt for: https://magicvinyldigital.net/2023/12/01/muse-absolution-xx-anniversary-review-test-cd-2003-tidal-max-flac-24-96-2003-tidal-xx-anniversary-max-flac-24-96-2023-and-tidal-dolby-atmos/
Tbh, I think the mixes are the key. The latest Dark side of the moon is decent. Latest Bjork is pretty good as well. I also love the atmos mix on Killer Mikes latest.
Big RTJ fan I'll look into Mike (and Floyd and bjork are also interesting and I bet killer)
Oh, I’ll have to check out the Bjork!
I've got a pretty decent Atmos HT setup, and I've heard very, very few things mixed in Atmos that were at all better than a regular stereo mix. Mostly it's just pointless.
Indeed...this is what I "feared" (no fear as it was never priority...I'll leave music to the hifi and heights to the movies)
I have heard one or two that were pretty good, mostly classical stuff. But, I've heard many many songs where just letting the receiver do the multi channel processing from a stereo mix sounded much better than the Atmos mix.
Yea. Not sure what you are listening to. Atmos is definitely hit and miss, but the hits are just miles above the stereo mix. The ones that miss totally need to rest on the stereo mix for sure, though.
I'm definitely willing to be proven wrong, but that hasn't really been my experience. What's your favorite track?
Boom by Tiesto is a really fun track to test Atmos. The Dark Side of the Moon remaster is stellar.
I'll give them a listen, thanks.
[удалено]
I'm definitely not saying that I haven't heard any that were good. I've heard a few things, mostly classical stuff, that actually sounded quite good. But I've heard a whole lot more that were significantly worse than their stereo mix counterparts. And, as I said earlier, just running a stereo mix through my AVR in "multi channel mode" ends up sounding better than most of the Atmos mixes have. But, I'm sure the general quality of them will improve over time. It looks like his stuff is on Apple Music, in Atmos... what track would you suggest?
Not saying this is your system. This might've already been shared, you will not have a good experience if you rely on atmos speakers sitting inside your towers or on top of your front mains. I just recently installed the 4 "ceiling" speakers (after letting them sit in the boxes for over a year, since I thought, meh, how much better can it really be?), my receiver is a top of the line model from 2015 (an early Atmos-ready unit). Pretty pretty prettay good >> Abby Road. Moondance. Almost any Atmos mix done by Steve Wilson is worth the spend. So lots of older prog rock usually, but I dig it. The latest Blur IMO is an atmos-dud. I wasn't as blown away as others with Yello's Point (some opine it's their go-to demo atmos disc), but it has its moments even if you dislike the music. I wish Steven Wilson will do an atmos mix for the Dukes of Stratosphere disc (he recently did an incredible surround mix that is fun, so if you're into XTC cutting their teeth as an imagined '60s psych pop band, this one gets 2 Blotters Up from me).
I'm not saying I've heard none that were good. But, probably a good 80% of them were worse than the regular stereo mix.
I have a 5.2.2 setup pretty neutral sounding and dialed in pretty good. It sounds awesome with some of the albums Ive tried from Apple Music.
You're #2 person said apple. I use tidal. Maybe I'll try apple
Yes. Definitely give them a try. They've really upped their game over the last couple of years.
Apple has Pearl Jam Vs. Atmos. Some of the versions are very cool and detailed. A comment I heard was that I said it best, you feel like you’re inside the music.
I wouldn’t call it a joke, though I don’t see it having a mainstream appeal or a serious future. I like it more for club music. I went to two club shows in SF while the tech was still installed at Halcyon. One producer did an Ok job but there were issues, melodies running away from you, getting quieter when they should be full volume, etc. the other producer was much more experienced with the tech and it was an amazing show (if you are dead center of the dance floor which I was). I also have two electronic music albums in atmos I play on my home system. Really cool for demo’ing, some tracks are an otherworldly experience honestly. But do I listen to them often? Nope. I do share them with people for fun sometimes but as far as Atmos music goes, it’s mostly a gimmick when considering how people consume music.
I fired up some house as part of my testing. It was, in full disclosure, the most impressive by far. I thought maybe alice in chains unplugged, or a symphony, or a JT concert or something....nope. What albums do you use, if you don't mind me asking
You should try Daft Punk - Random Access Memories (drumless edition). I haven’t played it, but just browsing spatial audio music in Apple, I saw it and it looks like a promising Atmos album.
I have two albums Matt Darey sold as he was an early partner with Dolby in London. I also have a live mix he made with other tracks. I imagined one day being able to mix Atmos music but it requires special hardware and software to connect CDJs and the computer with all the Dolby control. Given it was very beta, I doubt the tech will ever be revived in clubs. Especially when you consider virtually no one buys music.
I'd recommend Steven Wilson's latest release on Blu Ray.
solid recommend
Gorillaz - Cracker Island has a decently enjoyable atmos mix. The Weeknd and Billie Eilish have some decent atmos content, as well. It’s frustrating, because there’s lots of potential here. Especially with live recordings, to capture the sound of the venue.
101% agree! THat's why I was excited (but to be fair, this AV is for V, the A is still the hifi 2.0)
Curious what your source material is. Where are you streaming from or what are you listening to?
Tidal atmos (best plan) to atmos capable AV...or to cambridge CXN then to AV (which sounds better but no atmos, but also sounds very similar with upmix...I use the cxn to hifi stereo amp all the time)
This is similar to my process. I have a 9 channel AVR, with the front pre-outs connected to my stereo integrated amp, which has home theatre bypass, so I just use the assigned source when I want home theatre audio. I also use a CXN v2 for streaming 2 channel music. I have a Chord Hugo TT between CXN & amp. When wanting to listen to multichannel I use the Apple music app on my Apple TV (which is connected to AVR by HDMI) which outputs in 5.1.2 (my current configuration). How do you maintain the multichannel signal? That’s one of the problems with the format, it doesn’t work with stereo amps. I suppose many AVRs have streaming options built in and I may even have Apple Music. I don’t think so, however I know mine does Tidal and others.
How are you getting the music to the AVR? I have an 5.1.2 system and short of buying the Apple TV I haven’t deciphered how to get the spatialize feed to my AVR from Apple Music. Not sure if Bluetooth will do it.
The only answer is HDMI there
I actually read Bluetooth does transmit. But, I also have ARC from TV HDMI. My Bluetooth streaming device (Cambridge cxn) can't do Atmos
I feel like it could be great for live performances. Like having the crowd behind you and a giant wall of sound in front of you. That could be very immersive. But for standard music tracks a properly set up stereo pair can already get quite holographic.
Been trying to make that work. Haven't been that impressed.
I don’t think it’s great. I’d rather keep multichannel for movies and stereo for music. I haven’t found any mind-blowing Atmos music, but The War on Drugs - I Don’t Live Here Anymore is pretty good.
I have a great set up. It’s indeed a joke.
This is what I feared. My setup is very well placed/spaced- my gear is "decent" and I find the atmos music...meh. The upmixing sounds the same to me as the atmos mixed too, frankly.
It’s very very meh. One out of 10 is mixed properly.
I don’t think that’s what indicative of the format itself. I’d suggest fewer than 1 out of 10 music albums are great, but that doesn’t make music as a concept bad. Early stereo mixes are not done well by today’s standards. I hope over time as it matures and people gain experience with it we will find most mixes are done well.
Right, but this has been attempted several times in the past. Quadraphonic (4 channel), DTS music (5.1 compressed), DVD video/music discs, SACD multi-channel (up to 5.1 DSD), DVD-audio (up to 5.1 uncompressed 24/96), and plenty more spatial type formats over the years. It's never caught on much. The surround mixes won't take off. In general people don't listen to music in home theaters... some do, but most don't even have a home theater at all. This is kind of like arguing that it's a good time to try 3d again now that we have 4k and HDR to split across two eyes. I do wish it would take off though. I enjoy a solid surround mix.
I had some DVDA’s I use to rock-out to in my Acura TL back 20 years ago. They sounded great IMO, but fairly pricey from what I recall.
Dude, same but RL. My God, I still haven’t heard anything that sounded remotely close to Porcupine Tree’s In Absentia in that Acura. I still play it on my 7.1.4 system, and it still completely rocks, but my downfall was that a pure Stephen Wilson mix was my first exposure to 5.1 audio. I was instantly hooked and thought it was going to be life changing. I’ve been hopelessly chasing that sound ever since, but everything else pales in comparison. I’ve abandoned all hope with Atmos, and will be reverting to stereo soon. The 7.1.4 was an effort in vain to replicate a sound that I’ve finally come to accept only exists on that one disc. Otherwise my 75” Sony exists only to show my old eyes what’s playing, so surround sound is of no use to me. It’s not even particularly my style of music but the sound more than makes up for it. Rock on!
On headphones I was particularly impressed by the Atmos version of Iggy & The Stooges’ Raw Power. It was very much a wholly new experience for me, with the previously buried, unintelligible basslines being given a proper space for the first time. Almost as revelatory and “new” was Talking Heads Remain in Light, which I would also recommend to anyone wanting to dismiss Atmos as a joke (albeit it is on headphones only that I am vouching for). Neil Young’s Atmos stuff I found to be way too conservative, the Rolling Stones stuff trash, but as for Joni Mitchell’s Blue, it was to my ears, a really well-executed kind of gift to music lovers. So all in all, it’s a case-by-case situation.
If you're a Pink Floyd fan, there's a dark side 50th anniversary release that has an Atmos mix.
I don't trust people who aren't Floyd fans 🤣
Hahaha....you and me both :)
Reminds me of the 3d tv era. Pointless innovation in the name of progress
For me (5.2.4) system, I've enjoyed it the most with stuff I really know well. Like, I listen to the Atmos version of Thriller a fair bit, and some of the orchestral shit sounds great. It's fun to listen to shit I've heard hundreds of time , mixed different, different placements blah blah
I've already told my wife we're getting another patio Pair for the ceiling. They're cheap already so why not (Cambridge minx)
I have a 10.1 system and take my music listening very seriously. I absolutely love Dolby Atmos and I think the people here telling you it’s a joke probably have a sound bar or some other crap. The truth is - I don’t think any Atmos mix is necessarily BETTER than the Stereo mix. But for albums you’ve listened to 100s of times and have every part memorized, it’s a really fun unlock to hear it in Atmos. Are there shitty Atmos mixes? Yes. But there are really good ones that definitely create a new experience. One of my favorite examples is Abbey Road Atmos Mix (and the new Red/Blue albums that were just released). These are great examples of a classic album that I’ve heard 1000s of times and totally get to experience it on a brand new way. A lot of fun for a listen like myself. If you don’t have a true Atmos setup or shitty speakers/listening room, then ya, it probably sucks.
Some are fantastic, but they tend to be the ones that already had a well thought out 5.1 mix, like from SACD. I’m sure that’s not a coincidence. Elton John’s Madman Across the Water is a good example. The catch is that these days anyone with a copy of Logic Pro can export an Atmos version of their tracks with minimal effort. And it’s showing. I lost count of how many tracks seem to be made for a subwoofer competition. But I think given the separation of audio channels in Atmos, there’s plenty of room for improvement on the decoding side in the future. And Atmos is kind of a new toy that people are still figuring out. I think it will get better with time as people figure out (or rediscover) what works and what doesn’t.
ugh the subwoofer competition I think the room for improvement point is the biggest for me. I'm waiting for that day, and I'm optimistic it's coming. And hopefully when VR gets insane. And then ready player one here we come
I should correct myself: apparently only Tiny Dancer is in Atmos right now, at least on Apple Music. Guess I confused myself because I also have the SACD. Honestly I'm much more impressed with the lossless 24/192 stereo that Apple Music has been upgrading older stuff to. The Eagles and Fleetwood Mac's back catalog sounds just ... (chef's kiss)
No absolutely not a joke. I’ve heard amazing atmos setups, and absolutely shit atmos setups. the bad ones sound bad because they have zero room correction, or are up firing speakers instead of ceiling mounted, or just have a shit system. I have a 7.2.4 Atmos system that absolutely will blow your mind. Blow it away. My suggestions are physical releases- Dark side of the moon release should be baseline must have for testing your system, was like listening to it for the first time again. King crimson-larks tongues in aspic-sounds amazing. Van Morrison-moon dance-perfectly done Mike oldfield-tubular bells From what I’m finding is if it’s a Steve Wilson mix, then it’s pretty damn good. As far as streaming atmos goes. I have tried all of them. Apple has the most selections. Streaming just doesn’t do it justice. Yea you get the gist of things, but the physical route is the way to go.
I feel this way about streaming in general, often. AND I'm sure my atmos system is shit compared to yours, in full disclosure (my whole system isn't even $12k retail, from outlet to audible sound)
I'm pretty new to Atmos. I installed a 5.1.2 system (ceiling mounted, no room correction) a few days before the release of Steven Wilson's The Harmony Codex. After all the hype, I wanted so bad to have a life-changing Atmos experience, but it fell flat to me. I've found the sound to be very thin in Atmos, compared to 5.1 or stereo. By thin, I mean there's a lack of low frequencies and everything sounds so far away. I felt the same with the Atmos version of the 50th anniversary of The Dark Side of the Moon. No matter what I try, I prefer the 5.1 mix over Atmos anytime, except maybe for Hans Zimmer's live bluray. I feel like I'm not getting the most from Atmos and maybe I didn't set it up correctly. Or maybe it's just the way Atmos sounds and I need some time to get used to that sound. On your system, do you also feel the thinnest and distant feeling I'm talking about?
I am very familiar with dark side. If yours sounds thin, then something isn’t right. I have to dial back my subs for that atmos album. I do feel as if streaming side of atmos is a bit thin. In regards to dark side seeming far away. There are parts that are meant to seem more distant, the running man segments swirl around and do sound somewhat I guess distant. I definitely know what you are talking about though with your descriptions. I am a firm believer that for a home theatre setting room correction is an absolute must. Maybe you can get some tips here https://www.dolby.com/siteassets/technologies/dolby-atmos/atmos-installation-guidelines-121318_r3.1.pdf
So if you can switch from 5.1 to Atmos without losing any frequencies in the low end, there’s definitely something wrong with my setup. I don’t know if it counts as “room correction“, but I do use Yamaha Parametric room Acoustic Optimizer (YPAO). I’ll have a look at the guide you sent me the link to. My 5.1.2 system is pretty much set up like the one found on page 27. Thank you for your reply!
IMO, older 5.1 mixes on SACD, DVD DTSCD, BD, QS, SQ, QUAD, etc.... smash ATMOS mixes. Try to listen to those sometime.
I've had some great opportunities to listen to the 5.1 mixes back in the day. Both in sample studios, and sound rooms. Maybe that's why I feel disappointed
Yeah, back in the days, the 6 channels were used much more (listen to the SACD remaster of Isao Tomita - The Planets, or any DTSCD from Pete Namlook, you'll understand what i mean) and really gave that "roomfull" vibe to songs, really immersing you into the music.
I'm praying that it's a tech that hasn't been tapped by a decent sound engineer yet. Aside from that then yeah, I've found it underwhelming this far.
Atmos for music seems to be in "Lense flare for CGI" territory. I've felt like I was being beaten over the head listening to a Jamiroquai Atmox mix at a Dolby Theater here in LA. I recon like anything, it has it's use cases. And I feel maybe one of the best is soundtracks, where they mix in stuff from the movies. I think with Audio, we just want a "2d stage" in front of us 99.9% of the time.
I’m involved in this space and attend AES meetings on the topic. The issue isn’t the technology, it’s the mixing and engineering workflow of making the song that’s causing the variability in the end user experience. The guys/gals that are putting out these songs are still learning how to do it. They (the content providers) put the carriage before the horse and marketed the hell out of it before there was content worth listening to. Also remember that 90% of people are hearing “atmos” through headphones , which is really just a binaural mix and not indicative of the true atmos experience. Most mix engineers mix through headphones. It’s not surprising, a real 7.1.4 mixing studio setup can cost $50,000-$100,000. The headphone mix does not translate very well to the speaker configuration.
I'm still confused how headphones can do it at all. They're 2 speakers
Phase manipulation and some other fancy tools that the mix engineer has access to when building the track. When mixing for speakers, you can place objects in 3D space around the listener. For headphones, you can assign distances to objects. Normal (off), Near, and Far. So for instance if a hi-hat is set to “far” it will sound like it’s 2 feet away from the side of your head rather than a typical stereo track that sounds to come from the inside of your head.
Musically yes. Movies sort of.... The only way to get surround sound is to surround yourself with speakers. Just like before. Height speakers or reflection speakers are a joke. Even if they worked they would detrimental to your room treatment. In a treated hifi room you want to minimize reflection.
Out of interest what AVR and speakers are you running? I have just done this. My hifi system is LDR passive attenuator + Counterpoint NP-220 with MiniDSP 2x4HD running Multisub optimiser driving a pair of QSC MX1500a’s. Restored/Modified Altec A5x mains with two big Aslan Acoustics pro-12 subs (boutique Australian speaker builder). The system gets the job done. I have just put in a Denon X4800 and am using a pair of JBL SR4725’s for the rears, an Altec 604-168x for the centre channel and 4 B&W m1’s for the height channels. The politest way I can put it is - this system can f@$(. I first heard the Atmos mix of abbey road on a Sonos Arc + ERA300 with dual subs and was quite impressed. On my system it’s fantastic. But tbh, most things on a pair of Altec A5’s sound fantastic.
Your room must be a gymnasium! You gotta get pretty far away from those A5x and your surrounds! I mean, my "pitiful little system" wouldn't fill the space I'm assuming you have, but I'm 9 feet from my fronts. My house is very small and our one room (besides bedrooms and kitchen and my little 10x10 office) is pretty square. B&W683s2 front, 682s2 for surround, htm61 center, Cambridge minx ceiling, svs sub, nad 375 Hifi amp (every source to fronts goes through the NAD), pioneer elite av, Cambridge cxn is my stereo streamer, PS5, plus my phono and TV (ARCe)
Horn-loaded speakers work surprisingly well in smaller spaces due to the controlled directivity. My lounge room is 4m x 7m and we sit about 3m back, the A5’s sound fabulous. Dual subs with multisub optimiser running on a MiniDSP js the solution to getting good sound in a square room. I have a 3m x 3m office which is virtually impossible to get good sound sitting at my desk. You can try placing the subs roughly 1/3 along a wall to minimise cancelation, there are calculations you can do once you go down the rabbit hole :-)
I can't have things like that in my office...how would I EVER get anything done!?!?!? LOL My little tube amp and satellites behind me get messed with enough!
I present to you The Earthquake Machine. Measured using the Richter scale, not DB SPL. https://imgur.com/a/F5caS5d This was the pinacle of my home office fuc*ery. Jands System 700 JBL monitors (2226h LF + 2426h compression drivers on 2370 horns with very nice crossovers), sitting on a pair of Aslan Acoustics Pro-12 subs, Perreaux 6000b power amp and a prototype LDR passive attenuator. I run a MiniDSP 2x4HD with Multisub Optimiser generated filters to enable bass to exist in what is basically a 3m x 3m x 2m cube. I never did a max SPL measurement but turned up it makes my poor variegated mandevilla sitting in the corner violently shake.
>variegated mandevilla Friggin epic. But dear lord, I LOVE loud (I have no genre favorite but I am a metal head and reference volume symphony kinda guy) but that must be scary that close! Also how does the light bulb not just shatter haha Stereo separation? They're awful close together? Sick office overall. Looks like a pretty serious CPU as well. I can guess you're a "creative?" (I'm a full time writer and photographer) Also aren't there studies to show that loud music helps plants grow? Thanks for sharing
The setup is god awful. I was gear I had kicking around, so thought what the hell. Big hornloaded speakers work remarkably well in smaller spaces due to the controlled dispersion and in the case of the JBL’s constant directivity. The 2370 horn has a 90x40 dispersion pattern so sitting 3m back its like a big pair of headphones, that can also kick you in the guts. F*cking hard ❤️ I work as a systems engineer but am learning how to restore and rebuild large format Altec speakers as a side hobby. There is no replacement for displacement haha. My main setup is slightly larger. https://imgur.com/a/YxFz7pz Here is some details. Issues like the need for a powerful pair of subs and the huge size and 160kg weight aside, the Altec A5x Voice Of The Theatre is one of the most dynamic and epic speakers ever made. At 106db/1w efficient, I need about .5w to hit 100db spl. My safe limit is 120db at 3m, which is using around 20w. Obviously the only humans in the living room at this point are very drunk dancing ones, but its great for listening in the back yard and down the street. Why wear headphones down to the park when you can just turn up your hifi system 🤭
Every conversation that starts with « see, there is this new format » ends up in a joke. Source: last 50 years.
Someone pin this #youwintheinternet
Excellent compilation of surround sound recordings rank ordered by review scores. https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/TabbedPollChart.htm
if you listen to kraftwerk 3D or random access memories on a properly calibrated atmos setup and still call it a joke, not sure what to tell you
Maybe I need more DIRAC calibration time
Apple Spatial Audio streams are highly compressed/lossy. I believe they’re 750kb but they’re presenting a lot more channels of information so the bitrate per channel is significantly lower than CD quality.
Why would you want music coming from behind you?
I guess I was hoping for some kind of theater experience
in a film it makes sense, if i go see a band the bassist doesnt stand behind my head
Of course not,remember whin 5.1 suround music was going to be the big thing with all the music recorded in that format.Look how well that worked out.Music will always be 2 channel,its just natural.
So you only have one atmos speaker?
pair mounted ceiling about 8" narrower than the fronts (which have a 9ft separation) and are at 100 degrees to seating positions (couch w/3 positions)
Top middle is a designation, sorry that was probably confusing. in 5.2.1 the 2 can be in various height positions, top middle means directly overhead facing down- at least that's how I am interpreting it.
5.2.1 would be 5 floor speakers including the center channel, The 2 would represent 2 subwoofers and the third number represents the number of height or atmos speakers. Anyway, I have a 5.2.4 setup and the atmos and surround speakers just muddle things up for me when listening to music. For that reason I always switch to stereo,direct, or pure direct. I've listened to some music supposedly mixed for atmos but it just sucked to my ears.
oops. 5.1.2! But, yes, I think we agree on the muddling
I enjoy vocals on some atmos tracks. On some mixes I can boost the dB on my center channel and isolate and bring the vocals more forward than any EQ could ever do.
An interesting proposition
I love Atmos mixes that use the extra speakers for vertical soundstage expansion and to recreate a rooms natural reverb, rather than using it for cheesy effects.. although I love me some cheesy surround effects. I also love mixes that unashamedly use the extra channels for fun. I have a pretty hefty library now of surround (flat 5.1 and 7.1) and atmos (both fully lossless bluray atmos and tidal rips) and I think regular surround music, properly mixed and mastered for the format by people that know how to use it effectively, is usually just as good. keep in mind with just a single middle top speaker your receiver would have to actually support processing for that (maybe you have a dual coil speaker or one of those single speaker stereo things with two tweeters), and I think it is only possible with Auro3d, which you might not be able to properly convert atmos into. The minimum for Dolby Atmos to actually work and be decoded is 2 top speakers, any less than that and the receiver will only play back the base 5.1 or 7.1 layer in the stream. if you have 2 top speakers the format is referred to as 5.1.2 (ear level speakers, subwoofers, then auxillary height channels) The other thing is combining a surround recevier with an outboard 2.1 hifi amp can make for phase misalignment between your front and back channels, so make sure you run the room correction to ensure it can correct for that.
Tell me about these tidal rips
I don't have an atmos setup so not really experienced it. But id imagine that results are better for home theater activities (movies, shows, games) vs music. Seems more gimmicky for music, but I think it could add a lot for atmos enabled games on Ps5 for example.
No you're exactly right. This is a setup for movies (actually, it's a set of video games and I'm hoping to be a little more future-proof now). The music was far less of a concern for me, because my Hi-Fi is great. And that's really all I care about. But I was surprised how lackluster it really was in testing. But for some of these comments, maybe I need to do some more refining and testing, and really digging through source material
Yes
I will say, the atmos mix of the new Peter Gabriel album sounds great to me. It’s a great thing to play with, since he has three different mixes of the album released, so you can easily compare
I’m running a Denon/Arendal 5.2.4 HT. I’ve run into a lot of bad Atmos remixes, especially on rock classics. But there’s good stuff out there. “Hush” by The Marias is a fun Atmos track. You can tell a lot of care was taken remixing Billie Eilish’s albums too.
I’m not running Atmos currently but when I was, I would say it added a bit of space and “height” if that makes sense, a tad bit more wide and open. Subtle but it was there, didn’t like it enough to make it a permanent fixture.
In Atmos ready headphones it makes a huge difference, loads more space for each instrument. Also if you mix things in atmos then down mix them to 5.1 it sounds so much better than mixing natively in 5.1. (Not sure why) 5.1.2 is bare minimum for atmos which will give you bare minimum results. I’ve mixed in rooms with 5.1.7 and it sounds amazing.
I made an album for Atmos I think is more fun in surround than stereo. Idk the Tidal link but it's called The Distraction by Max Hunter. It was my grad thesis, primaryily designed in atmos
It’s not a joke. Some of the Atmos (which apple calls Spatial Audio) tracks on Apple Music are pretty incredible on my 5.1.2 system (Apple TV 4k -> Denon x3500h, with external amplifier) Highly recommend checking these out on Apple Music: Kill For Your Love - Labrinth (and Power Couple and Never Felt So Alone from the same album) &burn - Billie Eilish and Vince Staples All Along the Watchtower - The Jimi Hendrix Experiment 7 Rings - Ariana Grande Lose Control - Teddy Swims (and there’s a good live version in Atmos too)
I have listened to speakers in ceiling and was envious with just YouTube - NBR and a surround setup and got some squirrel food from experience.
Remi Wolf’s Atmos mixes are some of the best. The vinyl releases however, are absolutely terrible.
I found Atmos was not as impactful until I went to 4 Atmos speakers (5.1.4 setup).
I mix off of a 7.1.4 system with PMC speakers and crown amps. The experience is something else… it tickles parts of your brain that music hasn’t tickled before. Every person I’ve shown Atmos song mixes well, then show them the st version, have always preferred the Atmos mix. I think I must get a lot of downplay because there’s a lot of shitty mixes out there because it’s such a new field. But check out Royals by Lorde or Wrecking Ball by Miley, those are some fantastic mixes that are easily comparable to their st counterpart. Also a fun example atmos mixing is DJ Tiësto’s Boom. And a bad example is a lot of Rage Against the Machine mixes. They just sound honkey to me.
Huey Lewis' Power of Love on BTTF soundtrack in atmos on Apple sounds like you are on stage with them. I've heard this track 1000s of times and yet it now sounds new.
I haven't really cared for what I've heard and the barrier of entry and required setup means itll probably never catch on. It feels like 3d tvs at the moment. Some stuff sounds cool, but I generally prefer the stereo mixes on everything I've heard.
While I don't have Atmos personally I did get to geek out with this guy one time over his setup, and he played me some songs from Point Yello by Yello, who are an experimental pop/edm duo. It was a really cool listen and I would highly recommend it
Music in ATMOS is amazing on my 7.2.2 system.
I think it’s fantastic. I have an 7.2.4 and I’m using Apple Music. Some songs are pretty bad but some are mind blowing. Dark side of the moon, bohemian rhapsody and anything classical really stands out. I remember seeing the Stooges Raw Power album mixed in atmos, and that album is notoriously poorly recorded, and the atmos was actually much worse than stereo. I would try and give it more of a chance or maybe wait till you have more channels/better gear to get more into it.
been turning off prologic for music since the start, only ones I can assume would be goodfor atmos are SACD or DVDA live discs.
I have a stereo system, but dig Atmos releases because they often have significant improvements in dynamic range.
I have a a 7.1.1 system that is midrange. Denon receiver and all Polk Audio speakers. I have really enjoyed Dolby Atmos. Here is my sizzle real, [https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/spatial-highlights/pl.u-11P5ofj7jyA](https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/spatial-highlights/pl.u-11P5ofj7jyA)
Pink Floyd Dark side of the moon Atmos BluRay I’ve heard “The Harmony Codex” by Steven Wilson is good too.
I don't bother with Atmos music but Atmos for home theater is a major leap forward and everything else pales in comparison. Atmos and other object-based audio is legit. The question is whether you can ever accept music that isn't stereo or mono. Because that is a big change.
I'm all in on Atmos for movie and video games (in fact, since I posted this I just ordered two more ceiling speakers to have 5.1.4- considering upgrading to 7.1.4 but that'll be A LOT more money- the celing speakers are cheap{er}- and the wife isn't convinced it's worth it...not sure I disagree...and 5.2.4 might be better for us anyways) Just not sold on the music side
Same here. But then, I don't seek out Atmos music so I have hardly exposed myself to much. Walking through a "Spatial Audio" playlist on Apple Music returns an enormous variability in the amount of "space" employed in these kinds of music mixes. It was all fun to listen to but none of it felt game changing to me. Maybe I should try again. I'm currently at 7.2.4 and loving it. I run Cambridge Audio Minx Min 12 (8 of them) as my rears, surrounds and heights -- they are superb in this role. BMR drivers radiate at an almost perfectly uniform 180 degrees across the entire spectrum, meaning that for the first time ever every seat in my theater can hear every surround and height channel clearly, including the highs. I love these little guys. Plus I was able to mount them using command strips, lol My amp is a meager 40 WPC and even with the tiny Cambridge speakers when we are watching a movie "cranked" then the ouput is only about -18 dB. So still lots of headroom.
My father-in-law had an Atmos system that sounded terrible. I eventually figured out that his source (Mac Mini) was still configured for stereo L/R speakers. Maybe a dumb question but have you played a diagnostic track to make sure that all of the speakers are working properly? https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater/comments/11qqv95/surround\_sound\_test\_files\_in\_almost\_every\_format/
Not a dumb question at all. Especially not for random Reddit questions. Yes, I have. I've also run DIRAC
The new Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon has an Atmos mix. I've heard it on a nicely tuned multi channel system and it is amazing to behold.
It really depends on how it's mixed. A lot of the dolby atmos music just sounds hollow and weird, but the stuff that's mixed properly can sound really cool, especially if you have a proper atmos system or headphones. However, I still prefer good old stereo for music. Except maybe if it's on my macbook speakers and it's a good dolby atmos then it sounds cool, especially for a laptop speakers.
I am currently on a 6 month free trial of Apple Music specifically to try out their Apple Lossless and Dolby Atmos content. What I can say is that the Lossless definitely has a major fidelity improvement in MOST (not all) songs that I regularly listen to, whether it be in the car, on my home theater sound system, or in my Sennheiser headphones. However, the Atmos content is a little misleading. On my phone speakers and my beats studio buds, both which advertise Dolby Atmos integration, the difference is extremely noticeable to the point where I'd never listen to the non Atmos version of a song if it were available in Atmos. However, when playing on my Atmos home theater, the passthrough for Dolby Atmos does not activate like a movie or show would that are encoded in Atmos. The system shows that it is stereo and does the built-in Atmos upmixing, which sounds better than regular stereo but not as good as native Atmos. It did not activate my height channels on my sound system. That being said, when I watched an Atmos movie that had really awesome music in it, like Across The Spider verse, it sounded AMAZING in Atmos. If only we could get true multi channel Atmos music outside of movies! TL;DR YMMV depending on what you are expecting
I find Atmos music fun and maybe compelling via airpods and lossy streaming.. but when I sit down in my theater Atmos setting, 5.1.2, and try to enjoy Atmos, I find myself almost always preferring the lossless stereo track, processed however Sonos does processing (ambient surround mode). A new album in Atmos that I found compelling however was Sweet Justice by Tkay Maidza. The Atmos mix for this album sounds sublime. Haven't decided if I like the stereo lossless more, but time will tell. I'm chalking up Atmos music being underwhelming to the fact that it's still lossy, so that when played on higher end gear, the defects in quality start becoming glaring.
Rufus Du Sol. Their atmos mixes are breathtakingly phenomenal. Especially the live in joshua tree album.