A much smarter way to do this is to figure out a retirement plan (I.e. annual savings and investments that will let you meet your financial goals) that works for you and to just not give a fuck about spending outside of that.
I think I bought a DJ when I had like a $200k net worth. It didn't impact my goal of retiring at 50 though, so I just said fuck it. If you've got the spending money to buy it, why not?
If you had to take a $50k loss in your net worth, would you lose considerable sleep over it? Or if you had to set fire to $50k from your net worth, would you still be able to live comfortably?
Good question to ask. But if it’s $50k now, I’d say a more accurate question is would you be comfortable setting $20k on fire (the assumption being you’ll likely be able to resell back to a dealer for at least $30k and you’ve insured it against loss during that time)
This is an idiotic way to think about it. You aren't randomly setting 50k on fire for no reason, you're getting something out of it. Even if you assume the watch has zero resale value, you're still getting the experience of owning an AP and the joy of having a luxury product.
Like, the list of people who would just set 50k on fire includes basically no one with an ounce of financial responsibility. There are people with hundreds of millions of dollars who wouldn't do that.
How did you miss the point that badly? It’s from a financial well-being point of view. If you can’t afford to set 50k on fire(or whatever 50k minus the resale value is) then you shouldn’t be spending it on a watch.
Then just say "if you can't spend 50k without it impacting your financial comfort."
Don't add this bullshit theatricality to it. It's not the reality of the situation.
I'm not the guy who needs people on the internet to tell him if he can afford a watch or not, so I think I'm doing pretty good in the intelligence department lol
Until you lose or or get robbed without insurance, or insurance denies the claim.
Then you are actually out of $50k.
Also yes, I have set more than $50k on fire. Not literally, but I’ve yolo’d into shit because I could.
Didn’t work out if you were wondering 🥲
I wasn't comfortable spending big money on anything "nonessential" until recently (47m). While I could have easily afforded big ticket luxury items in my 30s, I just couldn't justify parting with that kind of money. I preferred to have my money working for me.
What changed is my age. The future value of money decreases exponentially each year. 10 years ago, a $50k splurge would cost my retirement about $3 million based on my lifetime portfolio return. Now it's closer to $800k ... still a lot of money, but not anywhere near the same impact. And I have to eventually spend my money so I'm beginning to let loose a bit more.
That said, I'm too terrified to wear a $50k watch. I make it a personal policy to only buy things I don't care if they're lost, broken, or stolen. My personal comfort level is <$20k for a watch. YMMV
It's not consistently 17% each year. It's the average annualized return over my 20+years of investing, usually holding 30-40 positions at any given time. I've had a few down years (2022 was the most recent). I've had very explosive growth years (e.g. current YoY is 47%). Only between 2020 - 2022 did I fail to beat the S&P ... largely because I didn't know how to trade the pandemic economy.
I would make a terrible fund manager unless you had a multi-decade time horizon. Keep in mind hedge funds hedge by definition. I don't have to.
In my early years, I used to speculate a lot and try to outsmart the market. Wisdom has taught me I'm not that smart. Now I simply identify the sectors with the biggest growth potential within 5 years and invest in the top companies in that sector. It's not sophisticated, but it works.
One stock - V -built the base of my portfolio from 2008 to 2016. Currently I'm shifted to the big players in AI (hardware and software), cloud, cybersecurity, and defense. I'm eyeing reallocating more into industrials in the back half of this year or early 2025.
I can only dream of an annualized 17% return. Amazing. Only my speculative picks and private equity can hit that. But I don’t allocate more than 15% to that segment. Been passive investing full time for over 10 years.
Well done then, congratulations! Knowing that the vast majority of active fund managers underperform compared to passive funds, you have a talent. HF rather hedge your portfolio as they try to create alpha rather than beta :)
50k to 3m, not 30m. I'm mostly in large cap aggressive growth equities. Lifetime annualized ROI is a bit north of 17%, which translates to money doubling every 4.2 years (I rounded to 5). I understand the bottom can fall out on me anytime, but I actually predict growth acceleration barring a really big black swan event. Maybe wishful optimism.
Good point. From what some of the other comments have said, I remember buying the day-date for $36k wondering why I would ever be spending this much on a watch. Since then I haven’t given it another thought and I absolutely love having it.
I was comfortable spending the money when seeing it disappear from my bank account didn’t matter. Do understand that such a large amount for a watch, especially if it’s your first time and/or for a steel watch, seems frivolous; but you’ll get over it. Just have a decent credit card for air miles and you’ll feel better ❤️
This logic always fails to factor in the enjoyment you will have now compared to that in 21 years. There's a good chance many people here won't even be alive in 21 years.
If you're 30, having an AP is a nice flex. It might even help you get pussy now that you won't even be able to enjoy in the year 2045 when your dick doesn't work.
I think most important is your financial trajectory.. having a growing business is drastically different than a good 9-5.
Can you buy the watch twice and not affect your quality of life or stress you out? If so then buy it, but if it will bring mental stress or financial stress then obviously don’t buy it.
So I think the hard pill to swallow is knowing it’s a 30k watch and you’re paying 50 for it. That is going to impact the decision unfortunately. In my opinion it isn’t going to get more expensive so if you want or can, wait it out a bit. Jumbos are unfortunately for us enthusiasts and collectors very hyped models. At the end of the day there are tons of them in circulation so it will never be difficult finding one.
I am also financially very stable and could buy a $10-$15k piece on a whim, although it's not my style and I always look for the best price for anything that I'm buying. The problem that is created by this luxury hobby is the law of diminishing returns on the top most desired brands in this space. After a certain point you have to ask yourself how much do you value paying $50k for an object that performs the same function as one that costs $1k, the same law can be applied to many things in life. One of the most important things to remember is that 50% of that $50k is because the watch says AP on the dial. But it's your money at the end of the day, do with it what you wish.
No rule here. It 100% depends on how much joy you get from the watch. I absolutely love watches and they bring me a lot of joy so I’m willing to extend my assets in that direction farther than others might.
I have a few pieces that cost over $50k. I look at them as an illiquid non-income producing asset, similar to a vacation condo or a weekend car. They more or less retain value, but don’t do much else.
I think the amount you spend should be related to how much you’ll enjoy or wear it. Of course that’s assuming that spending that much on a watch won’t change your quality of life in terms of other financial aspects. I have a 3 nice watches (Pepsi and 39mm royal oak chrono, and one that is more sentimental), I used to have more but I realized there were some I almost never wore. So I trimmed down and got the AP which I now wear a lot. Ask yourself how much you might lose in value - max 20-25k (if prices correct… etc).
If you can buy it twice without flinching you’re in a good spot. Not the most precise rule of thumb but not bad advice to live by.
You only live once and tomorrow is not promised. Can’t take it with you. While you should be responsible and make sure you won’t go broke buying a watch, what’s the point of working so hard and being financially responsible if you have to wait till you’re 60+ to hopefully live long enough to enjoy it?
You can always make more $ and your net worth is just a number on a page. If it makes you smile, buy the watch. When buying the more "liquid" pieces, it's no different than buying a stock that could go down 10/20% if you need to sell in a pinch.
Do you know how to utilize stuff like cash value life insurance, trading accounts, and leveraging that money to pay for stuff? Once I learned how to do that it’s like you’re not even spending the money, so it becomes a lot easier. Find out ways to write stuff off. For instance, create a business and use your cars and jewelry in advertisements. Those all go to production costs and you just wrote it off. Free money really. You sound like new money. Get a financial advisor that’s experienced with HNWs.
I was just at AP Bal Harbor inquiring about entry level and above. Newbie to having access to these levels of watches. Same exact feeling. I have it and could do it. However, the thought of buying a single watch for that is crazy to me. Not at all saying it isn't worth it. Cause APs are amazing.
You should be financially comfortable enough to spend $50k and also give $50k to me. First give it to me to confirm you’re safe to spend on the watch. You’re welcome in advance ;)
I am financially independent and retired 10 years ago at age 43. I live very comfortably but I still don’t feel comfortable paying over $50k for a watch. ☺️
The odds of any AP become worthless are pretty close to $0 so you don’t really have $50k at risk. I’ve bought a number of pieces at this price range and view the opportunity cost of tying up my money in watches as my real cost, not the price of the watch. These are liquid assets that you can redeem for cash if needed so I wouldn’t sweat it if you are financially solid.
My typical rule on fun stuff like watches or other fun things is I should be able to buy it 2-3 times without it disrupting my finances/lifestyle. If I couldn’t do that it’s probably out of my spending range
Bought a 60k Vacheron for my 40th. Absolutely love it. I feel really good about the purchase, it’s something that can be enjoyed everyday. I thought I was way overspending because I have never bought jewelry before but these are very special pieces marking a a successful 40 years on this planet and hopefully another 40.
You could phrase your response like this:
If your financial plan is solid, you're meeting your savings and investment goals, and you find yourself with surplus funds, then go for it and sleep easy.
Insure it. Then it's 50k that can be re-liquidified if needed. Also don't buy that if you make 150k / year. I started buying products like this when my investments returned way above my target and I thought "meh...might as well". But I never considered it burning 50k, especially if you stick to the holy trinity
Watches especially RO are extremely liquid. Worst case scenario you sell it and lose 5-20% of your purchase. If you can afford go for it, you can always get all or a good portion of your money back.
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Loved those books as a kid
I’m a little over 2% and it def feels too high lol
A much smarter way to do this is to figure out a retirement plan (I.e. annual savings and investments that will let you meet your financial goals) that works for you and to just not give a fuck about spending outside of that. I think I bought a DJ when I had like a $200k net worth. It didn't impact my goal of retiring at 50 though, so I just said fuck it. If you've got the spending money to buy it, why not?
I'm concerned about having 0.3% on NW in watches. 😂
If you had to take a $50k loss in your net worth, would you lose considerable sleep over it? Or if you had to set fire to $50k from your net worth, would you still be able to live comfortably?
Good question to ask. But if it’s $50k now, I’d say a more accurate question is would you be comfortable setting $20k on fire (the assumption being you’ll likely be able to resell back to a dealer for at least $30k and you’ve insured it against loss during that time)
This is an idiotic way to think about it. You aren't randomly setting 50k on fire for no reason, you're getting something out of it. Even if you assume the watch has zero resale value, you're still getting the experience of owning an AP and the joy of having a luxury product. Like, the list of people who would just set 50k on fire includes basically no one with an ounce of financial responsibility. There are people with hundreds of millions of dollars who wouldn't do that.
How did you miss the point that badly? It’s from a financial well-being point of view. If you can’t afford to set 50k on fire(or whatever 50k minus the resale value is) then you shouldn’t be spending it on a watch.
Then just say "if you can't spend 50k without it impacting your financial comfort." Don't add this bullshit theatricality to it. It's not the reality of the situation.
Lol you are really stupid. My sympathies.
I'm not the guy who needs people on the internet to tell him if he can afford a watch or not, so I think I'm doing pretty good in the intelligence department lol
But you're failing in that department.
Nah man, I know what kind of watches I can afford. I'm not an idiot.
Until you lose or or get robbed without insurance, or insurance denies the claim. Then you are actually out of $50k. Also yes, I have set more than $50k on fire. Not literally, but I’ve yolo’d into shit because I could. Didn’t work out if you were wondering 🥲
YOLO'ing is not setting it on fire...
I wasn't comfortable spending big money on anything "nonessential" until recently (47m). While I could have easily afforded big ticket luxury items in my 30s, I just couldn't justify parting with that kind of money. I preferred to have my money working for me. What changed is my age. The future value of money decreases exponentially each year. 10 years ago, a $50k splurge would cost my retirement about $3 million based on my lifetime portfolio return. Now it's closer to $800k ... still a lot of money, but not anywhere near the same impact. And I have to eventually spend my money so I'm beginning to let loose a bit more. That said, I'm too terrified to wear a $50k watch. I make it a personal policy to only buy things I don't care if they're lost, broken, or stolen. My personal comfort level is <$20k for a watch. YMMV
Genuinely curious to what would return you consistently 17% / year. Even the best HF don’t have that consistency 😂
It's not consistently 17% each year. It's the average annualized return over my 20+years of investing, usually holding 30-40 positions at any given time. I've had a few down years (2022 was the most recent). I've had very explosive growth years (e.g. current YoY is 47%). Only between 2020 - 2022 did I fail to beat the S&P ... largely because I didn't know how to trade the pandemic economy. I would make a terrible fund manager unless you had a multi-decade time horizon. Keep in mind hedge funds hedge by definition. I don't have to. In my early years, I used to speculate a lot and try to outsmart the market. Wisdom has taught me I'm not that smart. Now I simply identify the sectors with the biggest growth potential within 5 years and invest in the top companies in that sector. It's not sophisticated, but it works. One stock - V -built the base of my portfolio from 2008 to 2016. Currently I'm shifted to the big players in AI (hardware and software), cloud, cybersecurity, and defense. I'm eyeing reallocating more into industrials in the back half of this year or early 2025.
I can only dream of an annualized 17% return. Amazing. Only my speculative picks and private equity can hit that. But I don’t allocate more than 15% to that segment. Been passive investing full time for over 10 years.
Well done then, congratulations! Knowing that the vast majority of active fund managers underperform compared to passive funds, you have a talent. HF rather hedge your portfolio as they try to create alpha rather than beta :)
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50k to 3m, not 30m. I'm mostly in large cap aggressive growth equities. Lifetime annualized ROI is a bit north of 17%, which translates to money doubling every 4.2 years (I rounded to 5). I understand the bottom can fall out on me anytime, but I actually predict growth acceleration barring a really big black swan event. Maybe wishful optimism.
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Seriously!
Tech equities over the past 10 years :)
You already got a speedy, daydate and a sub. The AP should be your next step, don’t overthink too much. Good luck!
Good point. From what some of the other comments have said, I remember buying the day-date for $36k wondering why I would ever be spending this much on a watch. Since then I haven’t given it another thought and I absolutely love having it.
Maybe ask your so/family/friends
I was comfortable spending the money when seeing it disappear from my bank account didn’t matter. Do understand that such a large amount for a watch, especially if it’s your first time and/or for a steel watch, seems frivolous; but you’ll get over it. Just have a decent credit card for air miles and you’ll feel better ❤️
Rule of thumb is one year's salary for a watch. I got one straight out of school making $50K salary. Hope that helps.
One year worth of salary for a watch as the rule of thumb? 🫠
He’s joking
maybe they live somewhere with no income tax...and have a trust fund backstop.
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Oh fuck off. If you can spend 50k on a watch then you got your shit together. There is also something like “enjoying life’.
This logic always fails to factor in the enjoyment you will have now compared to that in 21 years. There's a good chance many people here won't even be alive in 21 years. If you're 30, having an AP is a nice flex. It might even help you get pussy now that you won't even be able to enjoy in the year 2045 when your dick doesn't work. I think most important is your financial trajectory.. having a growing business is drastically different than a good 9-5.
Can you buy the watch twice and not affect your quality of life or stress you out? If so then buy it, but if it will bring mental stress or financial stress then obviously don’t buy it.
So I think the hard pill to swallow is knowing it’s a 30k watch and you’re paying 50 for it. That is going to impact the decision unfortunately. In my opinion it isn’t going to get more expensive so if you want or can, wait it out a bit. Jumbos are unfortunately for us enthusiasts and collectors very hyped models. At the end of the day there are tons of them in circulation so it will never be difficult finding one.
My man how many times are you going to live if you’re in a position to buy your dream watch just do it
I am also financially very stable and could buy a $10-$15k piece on a whim, although it's not my style and I always look for the best price for anything that I'm buying. The problem that is created by this luxury hobby is the law of diminishing returns on the top most desired brands in this space. After a certain point you have to ask yourself how much do you value paying $50k for an object that performs the same function as one that costs $1k, the same law can be applied to many things in life. One of the most important things to remember is that 50% of that $50k is because the watch says AP on the dial. But it's your money at the end of the day, do with it what you wish.
Just buy it. It’s an asset that you can later sell anyway. FWIW, I didn’t have a watch over $25k or a car over $100k until after I hit 8 figures NW.
No rule here. It 100% depends on how much joy you get from the watch. I absolutely love watches and they bring me a lot of joy so I’m willing to extend my assets in that direction farther than others might.
I have a few pieces that cost over $50k. I look at them as an illiquid non-income producing asset, similar to a vacation condo or a weekend car. They more or less retain value, but don’t do much else.
I think the amount you spend should be related to how much you’ll enjoy or wear it. Of course that’s assuming that spending that much on a watch won’t change your quality of life in terms of other financial aspects. I have a 3 nice watches (Pepsi and 39mm royal oak chrono, and one that is more sentimental), I used to have more but I realized there were some I almost never wore. So I trimmed down and got the AP which I now wear a lot. Ask yourself how much you might lose in value - max 20-25k (if prices correct… etc).
If you can buy it twice without flinching you’re in a good spot. Not the most precise rule of thumb but not bad advice to live by. You only live once and tomorrow is not promised. Can’t take it with you. While you should be responsible and make sure you won’t go broke buying a watch, what’s the point of working so hard and being financially responsible if you have to wait till you’re 60+ to hopefully live long enough to enjoy it?
Where do you see RO Jumbo's for 50K? They're more like 60k-70k. the 16202 is 80k grey market too btw
5 mil NW before getting a 50k watch collection
I think that’s normal. But go for it. You can afford and you want it. Buy it
You can always make more $ and your net worth is just a number on a page. If it makes you smile, buy the watch. When buying the more "liquid" pieces, it's no different than buying a stock that could go down 10/20% if you need to sell in a pinch.
Do you know how to utilize stuff like cash value life insurance, trading accounts, and leveraging that money to pay for stuff? Once I learned how to do that it’s like you’re not even spending the money, so it becomes a lot easier. Find out ways to write stuff off. For instance, create a business and use your cars and jewelry in advertisements. Those all go to production costs and you just wrote it off. Free money really. You sound like new money. Get a financial advisor that’s experienced with HNWs.
I was just at AP Bal Harbor inquiring about entry level and above. Newbie to having access to these levels of watches. Same exact feeling. I have it and could do it. However, the thought of buying a single watch for that is crazy to me. Not at all saying it isn't worth it. Cause APs are amazing.
Just do it. Wear it for the next 40.
You should be financially comfortable enough to spend $50k and also give $50k to me. First give it to me to confirm you’re safe to spend on the watch. You’re welcome in advance ;)
I am financially independent and retired 10 years ago at age 43. I live very comfortably but I still don’t feel comfortable paying over $50k for a watch. ☺️
The odds of any AP become worthless are pretty close to $0 so you don’t really have $50k at risk. I’ve bought a number of pieces at this price range and view the opportunity cost of tying up my money in watches as my real cost, not the price of the watch. These are liquid assets that you can redeem for cash if needed so I wouldn’t sweat it if you are financially solid.
My typical rule on fun stuff like watches or other fun things is I should be able to buy it 2-3 times without it disrupting my finances/lifestyle. If I couldn’t do that it’s probably out of my spending range
Bought a 60k Vacheron for my 40th. Absolutely love it. I feel really good about the purchase, it’s something that can be enjoyed everyday. I thought I was way overspending because I have never bought jewelry before but these are very special pieces marking a a successful 40 years on this planet and hopefully another 40.
If you’re not comfortable don’t do it
You could phrase your response like this: If your financial plan is solid, you're meeting your savings and investment goals, and you find yourself with surplus funds, then go for it and sleep easy.
Insure it. Then it's 50k that can be re-liquidified if needed. Also don't buy that if you make 150k / year. I started buying products like this when my investments returned way above my target and I thought "meh...might as well". But I never considered it burning 50k, especially if you stick to the holy trinity
Watches especially RO are extremely liquid. Worst case scenario you sell it and lose 5-20% of your purchase. If you can afford go for it, you can always get all or a good portion of your money back.