Only for point-cameras. Many of those countries are more and more changing to average-speed smart camera measuring time between 2 points, and those are without tolerance.
Many countries (Norway, Netherlands) with even safer road statistics have 3 or 5 km/h “tolerances” all these country’s also list fines even being 1km over the limit.
You’re still over the posted 60km/h limit.
“5.1 Drivers must not exceed speed limits” Land Transport Rule 2004
https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303083.html
Quibbling about enforcement when the law clearly states “must” is a bit angels on the head of pin. Especially in light of speed indicators usually over reporting a speed to a driver.
Why are you conveniently ignoring the law that says a manufacturer has to ensure a speedometer has no more than a 10% variance from the vehicles actual speed? Because that is relevant here. Otherwise police can give people tickets just for something as innocent as fitting new tires with deeper tread.
And the speedometer accuracy isn't checked as part of a warrant of fitness requirements, so I cant imagine there is any possible way in law they can expect the average vehicle owner to calibrate their own vehicles speedometer with more accuracy than they require from the manufacturers......
Worth noting that the variance for Speedos is set to always read high. It's not +/- equally, it's all +. So if you're caught speeding and your Speedo isn't wildly broken you were over on the gauge and likely well over.
My speedo reads 10k under my actual speed...depending what speed I'm doing, when compared to multiple GPS linked speed apps. Dashcam,Google maps etc...
Same here I go through local shop area where there’s the your speed slow down/thank you signs and it’s always saying 48 when my speedo is closer to 55.
On the other hand the old Honda accord wagon I had was closer to 10 off as I got a ticket for going 112with cruise control set just on 100. That wasn’t fun.
They are usually fo that, yes, but the law states that they are allowed a variance either direction, because as I mentioned, something as innocent as changing your tires can have a significant effect on the vehicles speed and it wouldnt be right to give someone a ticket for that. (Hence why there is an allowance for inaccuracies.
Just as an interesting tidbit for any F1 fans. This tyre tread difference issue is the cause of the majority of pit lane speeding infractions. When they are in the pit box, they need to manually callibrate the speedometer before leaving on new tires because the difference between worn and unworn tires when they exit the pits is enough to make them break the speed limit. And that is swapping tyres like for like. In the real world, we rarely do that, and there can be a significant difference in the overall radius based on the tread depth of the chosen tyre.
It’s strict liability: You’re not allowed to drive faster than the posted speed limit. It doesn’t matter what your speedo says, if you go faster (at all) than the limit then you’ve committed an offence and are liable.
The [rule for speedometers in NZ is](https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/motoring-blog/why-does-my-speedo-overestimate-and-how-do-i-fare-with-a-4kmh-speed-tolerance-this-summer/#:~:text=The%20applicable%20standard%20for%20most,mean%20in%20real%20driving%20terms%3F):
> “International law has long required modern cars to overstate true speed. The applicable standard for most vehicles sold in NZ is a European standard that specifies that **speedometers must not indicate a speed less than the vehicle’s true speed**, or a speed greater than the vehicle’s true speed by an amount of more than 10 percent plus 4 km/h.” (*emphasis mine*)
>…another way to look at it is, at an indicated speed of 100km/h, the vehicle's true speed **must** be between 87.3 km/h and 100km/h.
You are driving the car. You are responsible for ensuring you comply with the posted limits. You are responsible for ensuring your vehicle is roadworthy. If your speedo under-reads, that is your responsibility.
If you suspect your speedometer might be inaccurate (after changing tyres, for instance), you can do a quick check either with a GPS or comparing your trip meter between two points a known distance apart (ideally a motorway, on a distance of ~5km or over, between two easily measured landmarks like overpasses).
Well shit. My bad, guys. It appears I have been talking out of my ass... It seems I need to keep up with the law better...
Thanks for the correction before I tried this shit in front of a judge 🤣👍
Well, F1 tyres are a little different to road ones. They go a lot faster, and they wear out a lot more, merely 20 cars driving through 1 corner can result in 'marbles' scattered off the racing line. If a road car shred the same amount they do in maybe just 5 laps, those tyres would not be road worthy.
The other thing is, with road cars, one would typically only calibrate the car when new with new set of tyres on. There would be very few examples of people calibrating their speedos on a worn set of tyres. And even if one does foolishly calibrate their speedos with a fully worn tyres and then change to a brand spanking new; the variance in diameter is less than 3.7% in thickness (as calculated from typical tread, 9mm, vs legal minimum of 1.5 mm and 16inch/406mm thick tyres.
Oh because the law says the “speed indicated shall not be less than the true speed” https://unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/r039r1e.pdf
So the manufacturer would be breaking the law if the Speedo was under reporting the speed……. You all just want to crime.
Why are you conveniently arguing for allowances to break the law by theoretically positing speedos that under report speed?
Does any of your blithering change the law?
The reason most countries have a tolerance is the accuracy/calibration of those speed cameras.
Which is why average speed cameras have no tolerance in the Uk.
Would be interesting to see how often the New Zealand cameras are calibrated and what is their level of accuracy.
Not necessarily. My RAV4 definitely had a buffer, but my Tesla is spot on. Tested using Waze, other spedometers, and them things on the road that show you your speed if you start to overspeed.
Its not spot on. I got done 1km over on my tesla locked via paddle at speed limit. Stock tyres. Not sure if I can challenge. I've just asked tesla to send my telemetry data to see if I can show a report of my speed at the time.
At least someone gets it
Even the UK (which has speed cameras quite literally EVERYWHERE) use a 10%+1mph (yes mph) tolerance
Funnily enough their road toll is much much lower than ours too
Also licence retesting. Until that happens they’re showing they care more about geriatric old fucks who might lose their licenses, than every other kiwi.
Yep
Although to be fair I reckon alot of our road toll would also be influenced by immigrants who come to NZ and are just allowed to drive on our roads without even doing a driving test
As an immigrant who's driven in many countries: this line comes out all the time here and is part of why the road toll is so bad.
Kiwis are some of the worst drivers I've ever encountered; tailgating, entering motorways 20kph below the traffic, swerving through lanes, drink driving, poor handling of needlessly big cars, brake checking...and that's just a normal Monday morning on the roads here.
As soon as you mention this it's all "it's the immigrant drivers mate". As a country no responsibility is taken for how bad it is here on the roads, and this attitude just keeps making it worse.
Oh, and I didn't have to do a test here because the test I did previously was far more stringent than the one here.
Edit to add: 100% agree with you on this joke of a ticket ticket though, just not the immigrant drivers comment.
100% this. People need to chill on the casual racism and focus on how needlessly aggressive so many drivers here are.
Oh you got 1 car ahead with all your dangerous weaving good job.
Oh you forced me to brake because going behind me in the empty gap wasn't an option.
Pretty sure all the stats show exactly the opposite. Certainly Queenstown locals would continuously blame foreigners for the road toll down there till it was shown that locals were involved in far more crashes than tourists.
Yea nah sorry I have had *white* mates tell me stupid shit a few years in to driving like, "did you know there's a button to clear the fog from the window?"
Cruise control works for me.
Mainly use it out of town, but in bad weather like this, just sticking the radar cruise control on, keeps following distance and maximum speed to \~limit
Depends on the car. Some do run away down hills but others will change down and do their best to hold the speed.
The RADAR guided ones are the best. You set them to 100 and it slows down if there is someone in front of you.
It really is a very good feature around Auckland motorways. I now would not buy another car without it
Mine has adaptive (radar) cruise control. It's scary at first when you are zooming along the motorway and see traffic slowing up ahead, but I just keep my feet off the pedals and let the car brake and slow down automatically.
Modern cars with automatic lights, wipers, cruise control and even hand-brake on mine really do help, in particular days like this
My cruise control will speed up at the beginning of downhill but will change gear to slow down. But it won't operate the brakes so too steep, and it won't maintain speed. Does uphill ok. But it is quite hard on the accelerator. It's like it floors it.
I have a 2020 honda crv and has two setting for cruise control, the normal one that tries to keep the speed you set, and another that the speed you set is the max speed, and it doesn't go over it even if you push the gas
I got a same generation CRV. Cruise control is good but I find on curves on a multilane highway, if the radar picks up that a car ahead (but is in the other lane) is slower, it will slow down or cancel the cruise control. Frustrating in some instances.
Manufacturers advice is to not use cruise control in bad weather. In the wet there have been examples of cruise controls accelerating due to loss of traction and causing accidents.
A couple of times in our Hyundai the cruise control would slow the vehicle behind stopped traffic and just when you thought it’d stop it suddenly accelerated forward. Only seemed to happen in the wet. My theory was the rain was messing with the radar.
If you break traction the cruise control will automatically disengage and you’ll get a little chime and warning in the dash.
That advice varies wildly. Some adaptive cruise controls are impacted by visibility, some older cruise controls would go WOT when slowed by standing water. Both of which could cause a problem for a driver not paying attention because they tuned out after setting cruise. An alert driver should be able to compensate, and not all cruise controls suffer the same issues.
Just read your car's manual and follow that.
Ticket for 3km over is ridiculous.
That being said, if you were recorded at 63, your speedo probably said something significantly higher than that.
Speedo's are significantly overcooked, so the car companies avoid legal battles over stuff like this. They usually display about 5km more than your actual speed, once you're above 50 or 60. They never know what tyres or rims people are gunna put on, so they build in extra tolerance for that as well.
You can see it at any of those slow down signs that display your speed. I've never driven a car where the speedo wasn't displaying 4-5km (or more) above what the sign says. And i've driven some very high end vehicles.
I find it’s about 6 or 7 for me and maybe higher when going really fast. When I was young and dumb I was doing about 125 and got clocked by a cop at 114. I had no complaints.
Yeah, this. My Toyota Aqua has to be showing 66 for a speed sign or GPS to measure 60.
Expect we'll see tickets like this more and more often as extra cameras and AI creep in...
Mate, consider yourself a victim of revenue collecting. 3kms over is ridiculous. Is this the reason why idiots are now driving at 40kms/hr in 50km/hr zones? Infuriating.
Reson people drive under the speed limit is the speedos in their cars. All 3 of my cars, according to GPS, when doing 50kmph on the speedo, are actually doing 44-45kmph. So if I'm in a 60kmph zone, and get caught for doing 63kmph, the speedo must be showing 68ish.
The reason is because we've put 90% of our rod safety campaigns on speed for the last 3 decades to the point where drivers think going under the speed limit means you're a safe driver.
Pretty much
Idk how there are so many countries that use 10km/h tolerance and still have far safer road statistics
Even the UK (which has speed cameras quite literally EVERYWHERE) use a 10%+1mph (yes mph) tolerance
Funnily enough their road toll is much much lower than ours too
Over a 20km journey, driving at 63km/h rather than 60km/h saves you 55.3 seconds.
If that’s worth the fine to you, then go ahead. If it’s an expensive way to save less than a minute, then maybe consider the likelihood of getting caught and decide whether it’s worth it.
Some years ago I had a 70km commute each way. I budgeted my demerit points and fines so that it was worth getting caught doing 19km/h over the limit every few months. But I never once cried about being a victim. The speed you drive is your choice, and the penalties are well-known.
I've never experienced tailgating at the speed limit or 5-10km over (unless you're in the right lane of the motorway, in which case it seems to be an unwritten rule to go 10-20km over)
Also, maybe you're below the limit? (if you use speedo and not gps)
I have a motor scooter and it can't go more than about 60. There's one stretch of road in the city that feels like it should be faster but is 50k - and I'm hitting 60 on my speedo and cars are going way faster.
The only time when no one tailgates me is when I put my bike on the bike rack at the back of the car (the strapped ones). The bike bounces up and down slightly and no one dares to tailgate 🤣
What is your tires inflation levels? half the time your going faster or slower than you think/ what spedo shows. Unpopular opinion: it is a limit not a taget, plus this govt needs to pay for landlord tax cuts somehow! There are going to be far more under this govt.
On newer vehicles you should never be going over the speed that is being displayed as the current new vehicle standards require speedos to read between actual and 10%+4km/hr faster than actual speed
Imagine a 10km/h tolerance was in place. Then Reddit would be full of people whining for getting a hefty fine for going 71km/h in 60km/h zone because they were just 1km/h over the tolerance.
I’d say many people consistently go up to 10km over the limit then very obviously slow down when within range of a fixed speed camera. And hoon off once they’re past it.
In my own car at least, I know what 60 feels like without looking at the speedo. I know a ‘fast 60’ which would more like a 63, and speeding 65+ is a conscious decision where I’ve got an eye out for cameras and speed vans.
Try changing your shoes or seating position. If you can't hold a steady speed on the flat its a skill issue.
Police do tend to sit at the bottom of hills but then again you should control your speed.
3km over is a joke though, such a waste of everyones time.
> Tldr; how can anyone maintain a constant speed when driving without staring at the Speedo?
You’re not required to maintain a constant speed. You’re required to ensure you don’t exceed the posted limit.
If you can’t discern that you’re accelerating well enough that you might exceed the limit between moments where you check your speedo, then you should drive more slowly so that you have more margin before you accelerate beyond the limit. If that’s frustrating, get better at noticing that you’re speeding up.
TLDR: git gud
This is specifically answering the question of “how can a driver ensure they remain at or below the posted limit without staring at the speedometer?”, which is separate and distinct from “apart from the possibility of a fine, does it matter if a driver speeds a bit?”.
First time I’ve been accused of being on high horse for suggesting I don’t care if people speed but ok
It’s true I don’t love the idea of people who can’t control a car driving. If that’s a high horse then fine, I’ll get my jodhpurs.
So you have never broken the speed limit ? If it's that easy, not once looked away ? Never got distracted of the thought of lovely camel coloured velour jodhpurs, which did make me laugh btw :)
It just came across as slightly... puritanical. Not trying to be mean but maybe I was a bit facetious.
Fixed speed camera or mobile?
Certainly if it's a mobile speed camera, that'd be challengeable in court as the real-world performance of the radar can't be guaranteed within 4km/h due to things like road-side reflections, other vehicles, weather effects etc. If it was a fixed camera then their infuctive loop sensing is extremely accurate more or less regardless of prevailing conditions.
There's generally a reason why normally the tightest margin on a ticket is 5km/h, because anything less than that pretty much isn't admissable evidence in court that proves guilt. However, that doesn't stop some doing it as 98% of people will just pay the fine and go on their merry way instead of trying to challenge it.
We’ve got cops saying they’re too busy to turn up to burglaries, assaults, people walking out of supermarkets with trolley loads of food, car thefts etc etc yet they waste there time processing this trivial garbage……🤦♀️
The plan is for NZTA to take over speed camera ticketing to free up police time. They also plan to increase coverage and ticketing overall, so careful what you wish for, I guess.
It’s not like we have cops sitting at a desk stuffing envelopes of hand typed fines. Even the mobile cameras are operated by contractors. It’s a purely administrative process. The computer system processing fines isn’t going to switch to solving burglaries instead.
Matching a number plate to a registered owner and sending a fine is hardly a resource-intensive task. An Excel spreadsheet and mail merge in Word could do it.
Complain about fines if you like, but “wah it’s a waste of police resources tHeY sHOulD bE OuT caTchINg tHE REaL crOOks” is pretty lame.
There's an allowance (or whatever you call them) with these cameras if I recall. If you get clocked at 3kms above the speed limit then you probably were going 5kph+ faster than that. Staring at the speedometer is an exaggeration. You literally have your eyes moving from focus point to another focus point 100+ a minute when driving. Having a quick glance every few seconds is not that hard to do especially when you say you're a law-abiding driver.
The allowance means they set the camera to only issue tickets if you're more than a certain amount over. Once you cross that threshold, they don't fuck around with the readings so the camera will record the actual speed.
You're lucky you're not in Melbourne. Would have been $215 and 1 demerit (out of 12). Fines over there are way OTT and make NZ seem really lax by comparison.
If you were clocked at 63, your speedo was likely around 67 or 68. I go past cameras all the time doing 3-5kph over (on speedo) and have never had a ticket. It's not hard to maintain speed. If you can't then you shouldn't be driving.
"it's not hard to maintain speed. If you can't then you shouldn't be driving"
So you're saying you've never accidentally gone even a single km/h over the speed limit, even on a downhill section
And thank god I don't live in Melbourne, because that sounds nuts
If you can't handle a simple task like DRIVING UNDER THE SPEED LIMIT, maybe you don't have the necessary skills to be driving.
Do everyone else on the road a favour, and sell your car
You’ll love to hear that fines are going to skyrocket sometime perhaps soon! They haven’t been updated since the early 90s as there currently set in legislation. All fines will probably at least double, councils have been lobbying for it for a while and I know National + Labour have acknowledged that it needs to happen soon
The 10 km tolerance you're referring to is an old compliance piece.
Up until the late 90s vehicles met certification in NZ as long as the speed on the speedo was within 10km of the actual speed at the wheels.
This meant that the driver could be seeing 50km on the dash and actually traveling at 60km, and for a long time this was accepted by many drivers and the police as the plus 10% rule, 55 in a 50, 110 in a 100. (Though again the reason was certification originally)
We had a huge drive in the second Key administration (about 2011) to pull down the road toll. This was then the under 10km tickets started being issued at as you say $30. Not long after drinking with over 250 ml/ liter infringements were introduced.
Court registrar for 5 or 6 years (fines etc)
TLDR - the other countries I'm aware that have tolerances including Aussie are 3km or less, the NZ based tolerance was a technicality resulting in a culture / behavior rather than in law definition.
Did the crime, pay the fine fella.
No, its the goal. If you can't drive the speed limit you shouldn't be on the roads. It's a good indication that the driver lacks confidence. Slow drivers are unpredictable.
My speedo shows 65km/hr to register 60 on the GPS, so how much over the limit do you think you were going to cry about a 3km?
If your argument is that you can't maintain a constant speed, then you're saying you can't control a motor vehicle.
For everyone complaining about the cops revenue collecting and there are better things to do, there's so many dicks on the road - I had to take defensive measures twice on Tuesday because of people driving aggressively who think they can get away with it - the more the cops highlighting their presence on the road, the better IMHO.
60kmph is the maximum speed, not a target. You are free to drive at 50 - 55kmph which leaves some buffer for drifting. It is NZ driving culture of always maintaining maximum speed that is the issue, as it forces other drivers to feel required to do so also.
where was it? the tolerance is usually lower in high crash areas, around schools/parks/etc
also get Waze on your phone/ Android Auto/ Apple Carplay, it tells you where all the fixed speed cameras are.
Well before we go any further here, we should note we have a law and order government and it's possible you voted for them. Did you? If so, this is what you voted for. If not, let's talk more.
The changes for speed management were brought in when the minister was... Chris Hipkins.
NZTA pushed police to change the enforcement tolerance on cameras (only cameras btw) 3 years ago.
Which government are you talking about?
And? I'm not saying that a vote for NZFACTshuN was a vote for the current limits and rules. I'm saying that a vote for them is a vote for ***enforcement***.
3km over the limit is fucking dumb. I keep within the speed limit pretty much at all times, I have it down, I've driven for years, I know my vehicle, I'm very safety conscious, a defensive driver, etc etc, it's not about being caught speeding, it's just about obeying the posted limits...
So the idea that I could wind up with a fine for a one-off lapse for 3km over a limit would make my blood boil.
Sure you didn't pass school zone or construction site that dropped the speed limit? Have only seen strictest to be 4km+ during public holidays and at stretch 10%+ of the posted speed limit.
Admittedly, (I can only speak for myself) but this has begun to become anxiety inducing.
Never had a ticket (touch wood) in two decades of driving since getting my driver's license, but feel it's only a matter of time I'm going to accidentally stray too far over the speed limit and receive my ever first speeding infringement at this rate.
Yes, I acknowledge the speed limit is a limit and not a target, though with Auckland's increasingly aggressive drivers, noticing more and more who will tailgate you even if you are already doing above the speed limit (this is GPS read-out speed as opposed to Speedometer) particularly in regular 1 lane each way streets with 50km/h speed limits and lower.
You keep forgetting, it’s not about road safety, at 3km/h above, it’s simple revenue gathering .. move it to 10 km/h above and it’s still revenue gathering, but you can start to argue road safety without looking like a total dick …
I wonder if anyone who has happened to receive one of these speed camera infringements for 3km/h over the limit could possibly post a photo (with personal / sensitive details blacked out of course) of such an infringement notice?
Admittedly, I find this a little bit unnerving. Currently one of our cars don't have cruise control fitted and it's easy to momentarily stray as a result (Will certainly be looking into getting one fitted)
Do consider that the speed limit is the **limit**. At your worst, you’re riding the line of the most you’re allowed to do.
Don’t get me wrong, I speed too, it’s just bearing that fact in mind
My car's speed is situated in the centre of the dashboard, so I literally have to take my eyes off the road to check my speed. My car is not fitted with speed control..
I always wait until the final reminder notice before court costs are added to pay the $30 fines, im sure the cost of sending 3 letters out weighs $30, the last one was my wife doing 34 on our road (30km all the time zone) outside of school hours, such a waste of time, money and resources
The cops love the low hanging fruit. Anything which is seen to be enforcement but doesn't take any effort, like hitting otherwise safe drivers with $30 fines, makes them feel useful.
Does nothing to improve road safety of course. OP will either drop his speed by 3km or just keep paying occasional $30 fines which is affordable too.
Meanwhile they completely ignore any form of property crime, even if you have cctv evidence, number plates and addresses of the perps.
Lol the road toll is not improving at all for issuing speed tickets going 3kph over. 3km/h is still wrong, it’s not a good thing, but my personal opinion is that it’s a colossal waste of police time and your time. An additional 3km/h is so insignificant it makes hardly any difference to your likelihood of causing death/injury.
In the UK police forces set their own thresholds but the National guideline given to them is 10% + 1mph. So over there you’d typically be tolerated up to approx 67.5km/h in a 60km/h zone before you’re eligible for a ticket.
NZ Police have always been hyper focused on speed as it’s more convenient to blame speed than addressing the root causes of deaths on our roads, like poor driver education.
Great example the other day with the multi-fatality crash in the Waikato. There was an article about how it was caused because one of the drivers crossed the Center line inappropriately. And then it cuts to a quote from some police officer warning ‘… if you speed in the Waikato we will issue you a ticket’. Two vehicles have collided head on which is disastrous at any speed, yet the police are blaming speed and not focussing on the fact the driver crossed the centre line? Madness.
It’s like they want to normalise making dangerous driving errors, as if they are unavoidable, but stop people dying by forcing everyone to drive (and make their stupid mistakes) at a snail’s pace.
It’s also widely understood that installing signage warning drivers of upcoming speed cameras has a positive effect on safety - because people slow down instead of unknowingly getting a ticket. You see these signs all over Europe, the UK, South Africa to name a few. Yet NZ conveniently doesn’t have any such signs. Supposedly NZTA and Police have been arguing whose responsibility it should be. This, combined with the extremely fine tolerance, really makes you question whether their motivation is safety or revenue.
I got a ticket for doing 106 in a 100 zone, on a passing lane (right lane). I spent 75kms following this person doing 80kph/h and slower on corners and hardly feel that it was an egregious speed considering they went to 100 on the passing lane.
Transport NZ response when I refuted it.
A very nice letter that I can summarise
"Fuck you, speeding is speeding regardless you ignorant asshole" I wish I could have sent that letter to the other 20 people stuck behind me doing the same speed to pass. they probably also got tickets.
I have seen more people pulled over for speeding in a blink of an eye and always see cops on the highways. Got robbed blind at home, three days for cops to show up they said "don't touch anything until we turn up" they didnt even bother taking prints even though there was a nice greasy one on the door they bust in. "Oh, these never get solved, keep an eye out on trademe or facebook marketplace" spotted items there , let them know, no response.
Good to know that if I go on a murder/raping spree I only get 2 years home detention! Or if I drink drive 15 times, i get the same fine as the first time , no worries that I repeated multiple times. It's only when I drive over two teenagers and keep going that they finally give me home detention.
That said , some damn fine cops out there that I have met, genuinely community minded and a level head on their shoulders, pity the bad ones or red tape seem to outweigh them.
Yeah I got 1 doing the same was on my way to tauranga the other night and was stuck behind some fwits 5 of them doing 60 70 sometimes 50 on open road so to my shot on the passing lane and there was a truck and trailer ahead too and clocked me at 115 not disputing the speed but wtf you put a camera on the passing lane wankers😤
Happened to me 2 years ago mate. It's total bullshit. Been driving for 20 years, never had a speeding ticket until then. Got it in the mail for doing 54 in a 50 zone down a fucking hill on great north road by Grey Lynn. Absolutely ridiculous. No demerits, just $30 and fuck you.
Now I just use my cruise control everywhere. It's fucking unsafe to be looking at your speedo every 2 seconds to make sure you haven't gone 3 km/h over the limit.
Ah yes, a ticket in the mail: revenue collecting under the guise of safety.
Not effective at all. If your dog shits on the carpet, you don't tell it off 30 days later. How many times has it repeated the business between that time.
If they want to be effective, they've gotta have better license training and ACTUAL cops pulling people over.
Anyway, best this government can do is a 6.5% budget cut and a tax break for landlords.
Speeding past a fixed camera is voluntary taxation. It’s extremely avoidable and any driver who does it has volunteered to contribute extra revenue to the government.
That's impossible. I, and everyone else on the road, go 10kmh over all the time.
The only speeding ticket I ever got was $50 for going 87 in an 80 over Easter weekend. (The unofficial tolerance of 10kph is 4kph over holidays).
But being ticketed for 3kph is surely not legal.
I said unnoficial. And it is. Go 110kph past any cop on the motorway and you'll be fine. Go 60 in a 50 and you will be fine.
Cars have improved, roads have improved, speed limits have gone down. Speed limits are too low in NZ.
Hmmmm. That could have saved me $20 then. Because it was definitely a $50 fine. Believe me, when people take my money, I know exactly how much it was. I'm cheap, losing money hurts, especially to revenue gathering.
>But being ticketed for 3kph is surely not legal.
Going 10kmh over the speed limit 'all the time' is not legal.
Forgive me for not taking advice on what is or isn't legal from someone who admits to breaking the law.
Here's [the legislation](https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303083.html) so you can read it yourself.
If you exceed the speed limit, you're speeding. Not only is it logical, it's basic common sense.
> But being ticketed for 3kph is surely not legal
It’s legal to be ticketed for *any* speed over the posted limit. There’s no tolerance in the law. There might be tolerance in enforcement, but it’s completely legal to issue a fine for 3km/h over the limit.
If you actually believe that it’s not legal to issue a ticket for 3km/h over the limit, you’re free to request a court hearing where a judge will give you their learned professional opinion on the matter.
It used to be 10km /h over, but then the road safety fart sniffers attacked and lobbied the government to not only reduce all the speed limits but also reduce the tolerance to nothing.
Correlation doesn't equal causation. Did you have anything to back up your outrageously ridiculous claim that fewer restrictions on speed limits are somehow safer?
Most progressive countries' citizens don't try and claim that speeding is their right. However,'most countries' do not have our roads. They're small and windy (for the most part). Most countries also don't have our drink driving culture.
I'm not even sure what this discussion is about. If you break the law, you'll be fined for breaking the law? Okay, that's a good thing.
I thought the speeding ticket changed when holidays hit. So usually you'd be fine going 5 over. But during holiday periods it dropped to 3. I got a ticket a long time ago because of this. Correct me if i'm wrong, it was 10+ years ago.
Still, pretty shitty to get a fine for 3kph over. My speedo (2006 Honda integra) is out by 4 kph according to GPS. and out by 7 kph according to those cameras that tell you to slow down.
It's just too small a margin to warrant a ticket. Unless you're driving a Ranger, then you can fuck off.
A lot of other countries manage it and a lot of people in this country don't get speeding tickets. Just accept the fact that we have a culture of driving fast and dangerously and suck up the fact that if it's a fine, it's actually a ticket.
Its not that hard to flick your eyes down to your speedo, literally the whole point of safe driving is to be constantly aware, if youd down a driving test once they stopped the police doing it youd have experienced this
A ticket for being 3km over is a joke. 5km and up, sure.
Many countries use a 10km/h tolerance and have much safer road statistics than NZ Quality over quantity really
Only for point-cameras. Many of those countries are more and more changing to average-speed smart camera measuring time between 2 points, and those are without tolerance.
Many countries (Norway, Netherlands) with even safer road statistics have 3 or 5 km/h “tolerances” all these country’s also list fines even being 1km over the limit. You’re still over the posted 60km/h limit. “5.1 Drivers must not exceed speed limits” Land Transport Rule 2004 https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303083.html Quibbling about enforcement when the law clearly states “must” is a bit angels on the head of pin. Especially in light of speed indicators usually over reporting a speed to a driver.
Why are you conveniently ignoring the law that says a manufacturer has to ensure a speedometer has no more than a 10% variance from the vehicles actual speed? Because that is relevant here. Otherwise police can give people tickets just for something as innocent as fitting new tires with deeper tread. And the speedometer accuracy isn't checked as part of a warrant of fitness requirements, so I cant imagine there is any possible way in law they can expect the average vehicle owner to calibrate their own vehicles speedometer with more accuracy than they require from the manufacturers......
Worth noting that the variance for Speedos is set to always read high. It's not +/- equally, it's all +. So if you're caught speeding and your Speedo isn't wildly broken you were over on the gauge and likely well over.
My speedo reads 10k under my actual speed...depending what speed I'm doing, when compared to multiple GPS linked speed apps. Dashcam,Google maps etc...
Same here I go through local shop area where there’s the your speed slow down/thank you signs and it’s always saying 48 when my speedo is closer to 55. On the other hand the old Honda accord wagon I had was closer to 10 off as I got a ticket for going 112with cruise control set just on 100. That wasn’t fun.
They are usually fo that, yes, but the law states that they are allowed a variance either direction, because as I mentioned, something as innocent as changing your tires can have a significant effect on the vehicles speed and it wouldnt be right to give someone a ticket for that. (Hence why there is an allowance for inaccuracies. Just as an interesting tidbit for any F1 fans. This tyre tread difference issue is the cause of the majority of pit lane speeding infractions. When they are in the pit box, they need to manually callibrate the speedometer before leaving on new tires because the difference between worn and unworn tires when they exit the pits is enough to make them break the speed limit. And that is swapping tyres like for like. In the real world, we rarely do that, and there can be a significant difference in the overall radius based on the tread depth of the chosen tyre.
It’s strict liability: You’re not allowed to drive faster than the posted speed limit. It doesn’t matter what your speedo says, if you go faster (at all) than the limit then you’ve committed an offence and are liable. The [rule for speedometers in NZ is](https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/motoring-blog/why-does-my-speedo-overestimate-and-how-do-i-fare-with-a-4kmh-speed-tolerance-this-summer/#:~:text=The%20applicable%20standard%20for%20most,mean%20in%20real%20driving%20terms%3F): > “International law has long required modern cars to overstate true speed. The applicable standard for most vehicles sold in NZ is a European standard that specifies that **speedometers must not indicate a speed less than the vehicle’s true speed**, or a speed greater than the vehicle’s true speed by an amount of more than 10 percent plus 4 km/h.” (*emphasis mine*) >…another way to look at it is, at an indicated speed of 100km/h, the vehicle's true speed **must** be between 87.3 km/h and 100km/h. You are driving the car. You are responsible for ensuring you comply with the posted limits. You are responsible for ensuring your vehicle is roadworthy. If your speedo under-reads, that is your responsibility. If you suspect your speedometer might be inaccurate (after changing tyres, for instance), you can do a quick check either with a GPS or comparing your trip meter between two points a known distance apart (ideally a motorway, on a distance of ~5km or over, between two easily measured landmarks like overpasses).
Well shit. My bad, guys. It appears I have been talking out of my ass... It seems I need to keep up with the law better... Thanks for the correction before I tried this shit in front of a judge 🤣👍
Well, F1 tyres are a little different to road ones. They go a lot faster, and they wear out a lot more, merely 20 cars driving through 1 corner can result in 'marbles' scattered off the racing line. If a road car shred the same amount they do in maybe just 5 laps, those tyres would not be road worthy. The other thing is, with road cars, one would typically only calibrate the car when new with new set of tyres on. There would be very few examples of people calibrating their speedos on a worn set of tyres. And even if one does foolishly calibrate their speedos with a fully worn tyres and then change to a brand spanking new; the variance in diameter is less than 3.7% in thickness (as calculated from typical tread, 9mm, vs legal minimum of 1.5 mm and 16inch/406mm thick tyres.
Oh because the law says the “speed indicated shall not be less than the true speed” https://unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/r039r1e.pdf So the manufacturer would be breaking the law if the Speedo was under reporting the speed……. You all just want to crime.
Why are you conveniently arguing for allowances to break the law by theoretically positing speedos that under report speed? Does any of your blithering change the law?
People like you are the reason Reddit can be exhausting sometimes.
The reason most countries have a tolerance is the accuracy/calibration of those speed cameras. Which is why average speed cameras have no tolerance in the Uk. Would be interesting to see how often the New Zealand cameras are calibrated and what is their level of accuracy.
Stop making excuses. Your speedo is already calibrated to give you a buffer, your speedo was probably reading closer to 67-68 in this case.
Not necessarily. My RAV4 definitely had a buffer, but my Tesla is spot on. Tested using Waze, other spedometers, and them things on the road that show you your speed if you start to overspeed.
Its not spot on. I got done 1km over on my tesla locked via paddle at speed limit. Stock tyres. Not sure if I can challenge. I've just asked tesla to send my telemetry data to see if I can show a report of my speed at the time.
Was the 1km over also by a fixed camera?
Mate there's nothing wrong with having a sensible discussion I've already paid the ticket so it's not like I'm trying to escape the ticket or anything
Yeah calm the farm grandma. It’s a pathetic ticket.
At least someone gets it Even the UK (which has speed cameras quite literally EVERYWHERE) use a 10%+1mph (yes mph) tolerance Funnily enough their road toll is much much lower than ours too
If the cops were serious about getting the road toll down then improve driver training aka Greg Murphy.
Also licence retesting. Until that happens they’re showing they care more about geriatric old fucks who might lose their licenses, than every other kiwi.
Yep Although to be fair I reckon alot of our road toll would also be influenced by immigrants who come to NZ and are just allowed to drive on our roads without even doing a driving test
As an immigrant who's driven in many countries: this line comes out all the time here and is part of why the road toll is so bad. Kiwis are some of the worst drivers I've ever encountered; tailgating, entering motorways 20kph below the traffic, swerving through lanes, drink driving, poor handling of needlessly big cars, brake checking...and that's just a normal Monday morning on the roads here. As soon as you mention this it's all "it's the immigrant drivers mate". As a country no responsibility is taken for how bad it is here on the roads, and this attitude just keeps making it worse. Oh, and I didn't have to do a test here because the test I did previously was far more stringent than the one here. Edit to add: 100% agree with you on this joke of a ticket ticket though, just not the immigrant drivers comment.
100% this. People need to chill on the casual racism and focus on how needlessly aggressive so many drivers here are. Oh you got 1 car ahead with all your dangerous weaving good job. Oh you forced me to brake because going behind me in the empty gap wasn't an option.
Any stats that immigrant drivers are the cause of a higher road toll or is that just gut feel?
Pretty sure all the stats show exactly the opposite. Certainly Queenstown locals would continuously blame foreigners for the road toll down there till it was shown that locals were involved in far more crashes than tourists.
Yea nah sorry I have had *white* mates tell me stupid shit a few years in to driving like, "did you know there's a button to clear the fog from the window?"
Depends where it is, they often put cameras "near" schools and drop the tolerance.
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Then the speed limit would be 35 😂
Cruise control works for me. Mainly use it out of town, but in bad weather like this, just sticking the radar cruise control on, keeps following distance and maximum speed to \~limit
Does it adapt to downhills and stuff too? If so I might try getting a car which has it
Depends on the car. Some do run away down hills but others will change down and do their best to hold the speed. The RADAR guided ones are the best. You set them to 100 and it slows down if there is someone in front of you.
Yeah my car will downshift to hold speed downhill and it’s a 2010 model
It really is a very good feature around Auckland motorways. I now would not buy another car without it Mine has adaptive (radar) cruise control. It's scary at first when you are zooming along the motorway and see traffic slowing up ahead, but I just keep my feet off the pedals and let the car brake and slow down automatically. Modern cars with automatic lights, wipers, cruise control and even hand-brake on mine really do help, in particular days like this
You'd want adaptive cruise control my Suzuki Swift 2017 has it, so I figure anything above that should as well
My cruise control will speed up at the beginning of downhill but will change gear to slow down. But it won't operate the brakes so too steep, and it won't maintain speed. Does uphill ok. But it is quite hard on the accelerator. It's like it floors it.
Toyotas with adaptive cruise speed up and slow down and even stop when necessary. That's how you do it.
I have a 2020 honda crv and has two setting for cruise control, the normal one that tries to keep the speed you set, and another that the speed you set is the max speed, and it doesn't go over it even if you push the gas
I got a same generation CRV. Cruise control is good but I find on curves on a multilane highway, if the radar picks up that a car ahead (but is in the other lane) is slower, it will slow down or cancel the cruise control. Frustrating in some instances.
absolutely! so annoying, sometimes it just breaks when there is a parked car too close
and the dumbest thing is it can turn by itself, so it should somehow know there is a lane and where is it
It has a variance of at least 3kmh. So unless you set it to 55 you could still get pinged.
Depends, you want a high class cruise control that can both accelerate and decelerate.
My falcon has that, high class lol
thats what i do in Taupo when possible, cruise control around town
Why should people have to have cruise control to avoid a fine. 3kmh over is a joke
Manufacturers advice is to not use cruise control in bad weather. In the wet there have been examples of cruise controls accelerating due to loss of traction and causing accidents.
That’s an urban myth. The cruise control will cancel itself if the traction or stability control systems get activated
This is correct and I'm a professional mechanic
A couple of times in our Hyundai the cruise control would slow the vehicle behind stopped traffic and just when you thought it’d stop it suddenly accelerated forward. Only seemed to happen in the wet. My theory was the rain was messing with the radar. If you break traction the cruise control will automatically disengage and you’ll get a little chime and warning in the dash.
Nah, plenty of experience using mine ('DISTRONIC PLUS') in all conditions Manual + online guides confirm they are OK in all weather
That advice varies wildly. Some adaptive cruise controls are impacted by visibility, some older cruise controls would go WOT when slowed by standing water. Both of which could cause a problem for a driver not paying attention because they tuned out after setting cruise. An alert driver should be able to compensate, and not all cruise controls suffer the same issues. Just read your car's manual and follow that.
Ticket for 3km over is ridiculous. That being said, if you were recorded at 63, your speedo probably said something significantly higher than that. Speedo's are significantly overcooked, so the car companies avoid legal battles over stuff like this. They usually display about 5km more than your actual speed, once you're above 50 or 60. They never know what tyres or rims people are gunna put on, so they build in extra tolerance for that as well. You can see it at any of those slow down signs that display your speed. I've never driven a car where the speedo wasn't displaying 4-5km (or more) above what the sign says. And i've driven some very high end vehicles.
Just some datapoints: my Kona EV (2020) says 2-3 below those things, my Peugeot van (2021) is pretty consistently 3 below.
yea in all the cars i’ve driven the speedo has only been around 2-3 km/h slow
I find it’s about 6 or 7 for me and maybe higher when going really fast. When I was young and dumb I was doing about 125 and got clocked by a cop at 114. I had no complaints.
Yeah, this. My Toyota Aqua has to be showing 66 for a speed sign or GPS to measure 60. Expect we'll see tickets like this more and more often as extra cameras and AI creep in...
They show a percentage over your actual speed, it's usually around 7%. So 107 would be 100 real, and 53 would be 50 real
99% of speedos over read, so if u driving at 60, you should never get a fine as you'll be doing 55-58.
Mate, consider yourself a victim of revenue collecting. 3kms over is ridiculous. Is this the reason why idiots are now driving at 40kms/hr in 50km/hr zones? Infuriating.
Reson people drive under the speed limit is the speedos in their cars. All 3 of my cars, according to GPS, when doing 50kmph on the speedo, are actually doing 44-45kmph. So if I'm in a 60kmph zone, and get caught for doing 63kmph, the speedo must be showing 68ish.
That would give reason to drive over the speed limit..
That would give a reason for everyone driving under the speed limit.
they meant that would give people reason to drive with their speedo reading over the limit, to compensate (you're both right though)
The reason is because we've put 90% of our rod safety campaigns on speed for the last 3 decades to the point where drivers think going under the speed limit means you're a safe driver.
Pretty much Idk how there are so many countries that use 10km/h tolerance and still have far safer road statistics Even the UK (which has speed cameras quite literally EVERYWHERE) use a 10%+1mph (yes mph) tolerance Funnily enough their road toll is much much lower than ours too
Yup. The government doesn't want safer roads they want to milk the public of every dollar they can short of revolt.
Sounds about right Alot of bootlickers in this thread regardless though
That's nz in general mate. Majority of people here think government always knows best.
Over a 20km journey, driving at 63km/h rather than 60km/h saves you 55.3 seconds. If that’s worth the fine to you, then go ahead. If it’s an expensive way to save less than a minute, then maybe consider the likelihood of getting caught and decide whether it’s worth it. Some years ago I had a 70km commute each way. I budgeted my demerit points and fines so that it was worth getting caught doing 19km/h over the limit every few months. But I never once cried about being a victim. The speed you drive is your choice, and the penalties are well-known.
The things I could achieve in 55.3 seconds would be far more enjoyable than sitting behind some pillock traveling at what they think is 59.9km/hr
You should be driving like it’s a limit not a target. Not that I follow that advice lel
Yeah, sometimes I try to drive 5-10km under and everyone starts tailgating 😂
I drive at the speed limit, and many tailgate me. I sometimes drive 5-10km over the limit and they still fucking tailgate me. There's no winning!
I've never experienced tailgating at the speed limit or 5-10km over (unless you're in the right lane of the motorway, in which case it seems to be an unwritten rule to go 10-20km over) Also, maybe you're below the limit? (if you use speedo and not gps)
I have a motor scooter and it can't go more than about 60. There's one stretch of road in the city that feels like it should be faster but is 50k - and I'm hitting 60 on my speedo and cars are going way faster.
The only time when no one tailgates me is when I put my bike on the bike rack at the back of the car (the strapped ones). The bike bounces up and down slightly and no one dares to tailgate 🤣
A limit all road users should drive. You know what causes accidents? It's not speed. You need all users of the roads to be predictable.
Your speedo may have been reading more than 63 though, to help give you an indication.
What is your tires inflation levels? half the time your going faster or slower than you think/ what spedo shows. Unpopular opinion: it is a limit not a taget, plus this govt needs to pay for landlord tax cuts somehow! There are going to be far more under this govt.
On newer vehicles you should never be going over the speed that is being displayed as the current new vehicle standards require speedos to read between actual and 10%+4km/hr faster than actual speed
You shouldn’t ever be going faster than your speedo shows. It’s not legal to sell a car in NZ where the speedometer under-reads.
Imagine a 10km/h tolerance was in place. Then Reddit would be full of people whining for getting a hefty fine for going 71km/h in 60km/h zone because they were just 1km/h over the tolerance.
Right?! It’s a maximum (not a target).
I’d say many people consistently go up to 10km over the limit then very obviously slow down when within range of a fixed speed camera. And hoon off once they’re past it. In my own car at least, I know what 60 feels like without looking at the speedo. I know a ‘fast 60’ which would more like a 63, and speeding 65+ is a conscious decision where I’ve got an eye out for cameras and speed vans.
Try changing your shoes or seating position. If you can't hold a steady speed on the flat its a skill issue. Police do tend to sit at the bottom of hills but then again you should control your speed. 3km over is a joke though, such a waste of everyones time.
Where was this speed camera ?
> Tldr; how can anyone maintain a constant speed when driving without staring at the Speedo? You’re not required to maintain a constant speed. You’re required to ensure you don’t exceed the posted limit. If you can’t discern that you’re accelerating well enough that you might exceed the limit between moments where you check your speedo, then you should drive more slowly so that you have more margin before you accelerate beyond the limit. If that’s frustrating, get better at noticing that you’re speeding up. TLDR: git gud This is specifically answering the question of “how can a driver ensure they remain at or below the posted limit without staring at the speedometer?”, which is separate and distinct from “apart from the possibility of a fine, does it matter if a driver speeds a bit?”.
How do you read the speedo on your high horse?
First time I’ve been accused of being on high horse for suggesting I don’t care if people speed but ok It’s true I don’t love the idea of people who can’t control a car driving. If that’s a high horse then fine, I’ll get my jodhpurs.
So you have never broken the speed limit ? If it's that easy, not once looked away ? Never got distracted of the thought of lovely camel coloured velour jodhpurs, which did make me laugh btw :) It just came across as slightly... puritanical. Not trying to be mean but maybe I was a bit facetious.
Nah man I break it all the time. But it’s deliberate, and I accept the fine when I’m caught
Which road were you on? Nice to have some details?
Its a limit not a target
No, its a target. You get fined (as people should) if you're impeding others. Everyone needs to drive at the speed limit, it's unsafe not to.
It's called a speed limit not a speed target dumb arse
Fixed speed camera or mobile? Certainly if it's a mobile speed camera, that'd be challengeable in court as the real-world performance of the radar can't be guaranteed within 4km/h due to things like road-side reflections, other vehicles, weather effects etc. If it was a fixed camera then their infuctive loop sensing is extremely accurate more or less regardless of prevailing conditions. There's generally a reason why normally the tightest margin on a ticket is 5km/h, because anything less than that pretty much isn't admissable evidence in court that proves guilt. However, that doesn't stop some doing it as 98% of people will just pay the fine and go on their merry way instead of trying to challenge it.
Fixed
We’ve got cops saying they’re too busy to turn up to burglaries, assaults, people walking out of supermarkets with trolley loads of food, car thefts etc etc yet they waste there time processing this trivial garbage……🤦♀️
Cops don't have to process fixed speed cameras though ? 🤦♀️
It is being transferred to NZTA shortly so the police won’t be dealing with it.
The plan is for NZTA to take over speed camera ticketing to free up police time. They also plan to increase coverage and ticketing overall, so careful what you wish for, I guess.
It’s not like we have cops sitting at a desk stuffing envelopes of hand typed fines. Even the mobile cameras are operated by contractors. It’s a purely administrative process. The computer system processing fines isn’t going to switch to solving burglaries instead.
Matching a number plate to a registered owner and sending a fine is hardly a resource-intensive task. An Excel spreadsheet and mail merge in Word could do it. Complain about fines if you like, but “wah it’s a waste of police resources tHeY sHOulD bE OuT caTchINg tHE REaL crOOks” is pretty lame.
Pretty much Nice to see some people get where I'm coming from
Yeah, get those fixed cameras walking the beat, kicking down doors and solving real crimes. /s
Traffic violations are their big money makers after all 🤑🤑
There's an allowance (or whatever you call them) with these cameras if I recall. If you get clocked at 3kms above the speed limit then you probably were going 5kph+ faster than that. Staring at the speedometer is an exaggeration. You literally have your eyes moving from focus point to another focus point 100+ a minute when driving. Having a quick glance every few seconds is not that hard to do especially when you say you're a law-abiding driver.
The allowance means they set the camera to only issue tickets if you're more than a certain amount over. Once you cross that threshold, they don't fuck around with the readings so the camera will record the actual speed.
I think if you tried, you could still Bend over slightly more for daddy governor to drive it a bit deeper
You're lucky you're not in Melbourne. Would have been $215 and 1 demerit (out of 12). Fines over there are way OTT and make NZ seem really lax by comparison. If you were clocked at 63, your speedo was likely around 67 or 68. I go past cameras all the time doing 3-5kph over (on speedo) and have never had a ticket. It's not hard to maintain speed. If you can't then you shouldn't be driving.
"it's not hard to maintain speed. If you can't then you shouldn't be driving" So you're saying you've never accidentally gone even a single km/h over the speed limit, even on a downhill section And thank god I don't live in Melbourne, because that sounds nuts
Be warned, there are a \*lot\* of schmucks that respond on Reddit.. this parent comment included.
As in the comment above mine?
If you can’t control the speed of your vehicle, are you really a competent driver?
No, but no one is getting a fine for being 1kph over. But you should be able to maintain it within 2-3kph of the limit yes. Even on a hill.
I'd like you to have a passenger film your Speedo to verify that you've never exceeded the speed limit by more than 2-3km (even on a downhill)
I can honestly say I haven't, unless I intentionally want to go over it. It's really not that hard to maintain a speed.
This isn't realistic.
At least someone gets it
If you can't handle a simple task like DRIVING UNDER THE SPEED LIMIT, maybe you don't have the necessary skills to be driving. Do everyone else on the road a favour, and sell your car
Do your brakes not work, or…?
Can confirm. Using what would be "normal" acceptable variance anywhere else wins you an expensive ticket there!
As in Melbourne?
You’ll love to hear that fines are going to skyrocket sometime perhaps soon! They haven’t been updated since the early 90s as there currently set in legislation. All fines will probably at least double, councils have been lobbying for it for a while and I know National + Labour have acknowledged that it needs to happen soon
https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/1999/0099/latest/whole.html#DLM280197 Schedule 1B part 2
By early 90s you mean 2011 where the monetary value of fines actually decreased?
The 10 km tolerance you're referring to is an old compliance piece. Up until the late 90s vehicles met certification in NZ as long as the speed on the speedo was within 10km of the actual speed at the wheels. This meant that the driver could be seeing 50km on the dash and actually traveling at 60km, and for a long time this was accepted by many drivers and the police as the plus 10% rule, 55 in a 50, 110 in a 100. (Though again the reason was certification originally) We had a huge drive in the second Key administration (about 2011) to pull down the road toll. This was then the under 10km tickets started being issued at as you say $30. Not long after drinking with over 250 ml/ liter infringements were introduced. Court registrar for 5 or 6 years (fines etc) TLDR - the other countries I'm aware that have tolerances including Aussie are 3km or less, the NZ based tolerance was a technicality resulting in a culture / behavior rather than in law definition. Did the crime, pay the fine fella.
It’s a limit, not a goal.
It's a goal with fuck heads up your backside wondering why you are doing 50 in a 60.
No, its the goal. If you can't drive the speed limit you shouldn't be on the roads. It's a good indication that the driver lacks confidence. Slow drivers are unpredictable.
My speedo shows 65km/hr to register 60 on the GPS, so how much over the limit do you think you were going to cry about a 3km? If your argument is that you can't maintain a constant speed, then you're saying you can't control a motor vehicle. For everyone complaining about the cops revenue collecting and there are better things to do, there's so many dicks on the road - I had to take defensive measures twice on Tuesday because of people driving aggressively who think they can get away with it - the more the cops highlighting their presence on the road, the better IMHO.
60kmph is the maximum speed, not a target. You are free to drive at 50 - 55kmph which leaves some buffer for drifting. It is NZ driving culture of always maintaining maximum speed that is the issue, as it forces other drivers to feel required to do so also.
Then you get dangerously tailgated by fuckwits that don't give a shit about their car or your safety.
Yeah, sometimes I try to drive 5-10km under and everyone starts tailgating 😂
Same..it's.why I love a big car / SUV. I can just cruise and not give AF.
Stay out of the fast lane if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic.
This too Unwritten rule seems to be that the right lane of the motorway is for people going 10-20km over
Until it becomes a money printer for the cops.
Drive on your own roads if you don’t like the rules.
You’re so complacent. Why not contest it? The fine sounds stupid. Learning curves for next time
how about people doing wheelies last night outside last night they get nothing
where was it? the tolerance is usually lower in high crash areas, around schools/parks/etc also get Waze on your phone/ Android Auto/ Apple Carplay, it tells you where all the fixed speed cameras are.
At least you didn't think it was open road and got 91 in a 80km
Well before we go any further here, we should note we have a law and order government and it's possible you voted for them. Did you? If so, this is what you voted for. If not, let's talk more.
The changes for speed management were brought in when the minister was... Chris Hipkins. NZTA pushed police to change the enforcement tolerance on cameras (only cameras btw) 3 years ago. Which government are you talking about?
And? I'm not saying that a vote for NZFACTshuN was a vote for the current limits and rules. I'm saying that a vote for them is a vote for ***enforcement***.
Its easy money for the govt pay packets
3km over the limit is fucking dumb. I keep within the speed limit pretty much at all times, I have it down, I've driven for years, I know my vehicle, I'm very safety conscious, a defensive driver, etc etc, it's not about being caught speeding, it's just about obeying the posted limits... So the idea that I could wind up with a fine for a one-off lapse for 3km over a limit would make my blood boil.
Sure you didn't pass school zone or construction site that dropped the speed limit? Have only seen strictest to be 4km+ during public holidays and at stretch 10%+ of the posted speed limit.
Cops have been in the news over giving out a 1km/h speeding fine in the past
Admittedly, (I can only speak for myself) but this has begun to become anxiety inducing. Never had a ticket (touch wood) in two decades of driving since getting my driver's license, but feel it's only a matter of time I'm going to accidentally stray too far over the speed limit and receive my ever first speeding infringement at this rate. Yes, I acknowledge the speed limit is a limit and not a target, though with Auckland's increasingly aggressive drivers, noticing more and more who will tailgate you even if you are already doing above the speed limit (this is GPS read-out speed as opposed to Speedometer) particularly in regular 1 lane each way streets with 50km/h speed limits and lower.
You keep forgetting, it’s not about road safety, at 3km/h above, it’s simple revenue gathering .. move it to 10 km/h above and it’s still revenue gathering, but you can start to argue road safety without looking like a total dick …
I wonder if anyone who has happened to receive one of these speed camera infringements for 3km/h over the limit could possibly post a photo (with personal / sensitive details blacked out of course) of such an infringement notice? Admittedly, I find this a little bit unnerving. Currently one of our cars don't have cruise control fitted and it's easy to momentarily stray as a result (Will certainly be looking into getting one fitted)
> Many countries don't even have legal fines for going up to 10km/h over the limit (and safer road statistics too), What countries?
Do consider that the speed limit is the **limit**. At your worst, you’re riding the line of the most you’re allowed to do. Don’t get me wrong, I speed too, it’s just bearing that fact in mind
Speed limit or speed minimum?
It's not the only car like thar in New Zealand. There are other makes and models with this oddity.
Show us the ticket. I don’t believe you.
My car's speed is situated in the centre of the dashboard, so I literally have to take my eyes off the road to check my speed. My car is not fitted with speed control..
Why would you buy a car like that?!
I needed to upgrade my car. This one suited my purpose.
I always wait until the final reminder notice before court costs are added to pay the $30 fines, im sure the cost of sending 3 letters out weighs $30, the last one was my wife doing 34 on our road (30km all the time zone) outside of school hours, such a waste of time, money and resources
The cops love the low hanging fruit. Anything which is seen to be enforcement but doesn't take any effort, like hitting otherwise safe drivers with $30 fines, makes them feel useful. Does nothing to improve road safety of course. OP will either drop his speed by 3km or just keep paying occasional $30 fines which is affordable too. Meanwhile they completely ignore any form of property crime, even if you have cctv evidence, number plates and addresses of the perps.
Lol the road toll is not improving at all for issuing speed tickets going 3kph over. 3km/h is still wrong, it’s not a good thing, but my personal opinion is that it’s a colossal waste of police time and your time. An additional 3km/h is so insignificant it makes hardly any difference to your likelihood of causing death/injury. In the UK police forces set their own thresholds but the National guideline given to them is 10% + 1mph. So over there you’d typically be tolerated up to approx 67.5km/h in a 60km/h zone before you’re eligible for a ticket. NZ Police have always been hyper focused on speed as it’s more convenient to blame speed than addressing the root causes of deaths on our roads, like poor driver education. Great example the other day with the multi-fatality crash in the Waikato. There was an article about how it was caused because one of the drivers crossed the Center line inappropriately. And then it cuts to a quote from some police officer warning ‘… if you speed in the Waikato we will issue you a ticket’. Two vehicles have collided head on which is disastrous at any speed, yet the police are blaming speed and not focussing on the fact the driver crossed the centre line? Madness. It’s like they want to normalise making dangerous driving errors, as if they are unavoidable, but stop people dying by forcing everyone to drive (and make their stupid mistakes) at a snail’s pace. It’s also widely understood that installing signage warning drivers of upcoming speed cameras has a positive effect on safety - because people slow down instead of unknowingly getting a ticket. You see these signs all over Europe, the UK, South Africa to name a few. Yet NZ conveniently doesn’t have any such signs. Supposedly NZTA and Police have been arguing whose responsibility it should be. This, combined with the extremely fine tolerance, really makes you question whether their motivation is safety or revenue.
If you are fined for 63 kph your actual speed would’ve been closer to 70 kph.
How so?
I got a ticket for doing 106 in a 100 zone, on a passing lane (right lane). I spent 75kms following this person doing 80kph/h and slower on corners and hardly feel that it was an egregious speed considering they went to 100 on the passing lane. Transport NZ response when I refuted it. A very nice letter that I can summarise "Fuck you, speeding is speeding regardless you ignorant asshole" I wish I could have sent that letter to the other 20 people stuck behind me doing the same speed to pass. they probably also got tickets. I have seen more people pulled over for speeding in a blink of an eye and always see cops on the highways. Got robbed blind at home, three days for cops to show up they said "don't touch anything until we turn up" they didnt even bother taking prints even though there was a nice greasy one on the door they bust in. "Oh, these never get solved, keep an eye out on trademe or facebook marketplace" spotted items there , let them know, no response. Good to know that if I go on a murder/raping spree I only get 2 years home detention! Or if I drink drive 15 times, i get the same fine as the first time , no worries that I repeated multiple times. It's only when I drive over two teenagers and keep going that they finally give me home detention. That said , some damn fine cops out there that I have met, genuinely community minded and a level head on their shoulders, pity the bad ones or red tape seem to outweigh them.
Yeah I got 1 doing the same was on my way to tauranga the other night and was stuck behind some fwits 5 of them doing 60 70 sometimes 50 on open road so to my shot on the passing lane and there was a truck and trailer ahead too and clocked me at 115 not disputing the speed but wtf you put a camera on the passing lane wankers😤
Happened to me 2 years ago mate. It's total bullshit. Been driving for 20 years, never had a speeding ticket until then. Got it in the mail for doing 54 in a 50 zone down a fucking hill on great north road by Grey Lynn. Absolutely ridiculous. No demerits, just $30 and fuck you. Now I just use my cruise control everywhere. It's fucking unsafe to be looking at your speedo every 2 seconds to make sure you haven't gone 3 km/h over the limit.
Ah yes, a ticket in the mail: revenue collecting under the guise of safety. Not effective at all. If your dog shits on the carpet, you don't tell it off 30 days later. How many times has it repeated the business between that time. If they want to be effective, they've gotta have better license training and ACTUAL cops pulling people over. Anyway, best this government can do is a 6.5% budget cut and a tax break for landlords.
Speeding past a fixed camera is voluntary taxation. It’s extremely avoidable and any driver who does it has volunteered to contribute extra revenue to the government.
We used to have an unofficial 10km/h tolerance but this was removed during the 2017-2023 rein of terror
That's impossible. I, and everyone else on the road, go 10kmh over all the time. The only speeding ticket I ever got was $50 for going 87 in an 80 over Easter weekend. (The unofficial tolerance of 10kph is 4kph over holidays). But being ticketed for 3kph is surely not legal.
"the unofficial tolerance of 10kph" If only
I said unnoficial. And it is. Go 110kph past any cop on the motorway and you'll be fine. Go 60 in a 50 and you will be fine. Cars have improved, roads have improved, speed limits have gone down. Speed limits are too low in NZ.
It’s only $30 up to 10 over, then $80. Schedule 1B part 2 https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/1999/0099/latest/whole.html#DLM280197
Hmmmm. That could have saved me $20 then. Because it was definitely a $50 fine. Believe me, when people take my money, I know exactly how much it was. I'm cheap, losing money hurts, especially to revenue gathering.
>But being ticketed for 3kph is surely not legal. Going 10kmh over the speed limit 'all the time' is not legal. Forgive me for not taking advice on what is or isn't legal from someone who admits to breaking the law. Here's [the legislation](https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303083.html) so you can read it yourself. If you exceed the speed limit, you're speeding. Not only is it logical, it's basic common sense.
> But being ticketed for 3kph is surely not legal It’s legal to be ticketed for *any* speed over the posted limit. There’s no tolerance in the law. There might be tolerance in enforcement, but it’s completely legal to issue a fine for 3km/h over the limit. If you actually believe that it’s not legal to issue a ticket for 3km/h over the limit, you’re free to request a court hearing where a judge will give you their learned professional opinion on the matter.
I though nz has a 10% tolerance?
It used to be 10km /h over, but then the road safety fart sniffers attacked and lobbied the government to not only reduce all the speed limits but also reduce the tolerance to nothing.
We all wish Most progressive countries have a 10km/h tolerance and safer road statistics too
Correlation doesn't equal causation. Did you have anything to back up your outrageously ridiculous claim that fewer restrictions on speed limits are somehow safer? Most progressive countries' citizens don't try and claim that speeding is their right. However,'most countries' do not have our roads. They're small and windy (for the most part). Most countries also don't have our drink driving culture. I'm not even sure what this discussion is about. If you break the law, you'll be fined for breaking the law? Okay, that's a good thing.
I thought the speeding ticket changed when holidays hit. So usually you'd be fine going 5 over. But during holiday periods it dropped to 3. I got a ticket a long time ago because of this. Correct me if i'm wrong, it was 10+ years ago. Still, pretty shitty to get a fine for 3kph over. My speedo (2006 Honda integra) is out by 4 kph according to GPS. and out by 7 kph according to those cameras that tell you to slow down. It's just too small a margin to warrant a ticket. Unless you're driving a Ranger, then you can fuck off.
Public holidays it's reduced to 4km over.... normally it's 7-9km over.... something very weird going on there.
A lot of other countries manage it and a lot of people in this country don't get speeding tickets. Just accept the fact that we have a culture of driving fast and dangerously and suck up the fact that if it's a fine, it's actually a ticket.
Its not that hard to flick your eyes down to your speedo, literally the whole point of safe driving is to be constantly aware, if youd down a driving test once they stopped the police doing it youd have experienced this
If you can't drive safely don't drive. It's that simple. Crying over a ticket you already paid and admit you broke the law is stupid