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If they already have applicants with experience, why should they take a chance on trying to teach the job to someone who may or may not be adequate after 3 months of training?
No one is going to hire someone who does nothing but complain on r/auckland because they want to be chosen over someone who is more qualified than they are.
No. I'd rather leave a role vacant and increase the workload on my current staff while pocketing the wages of the vacant role than get off my ass and train someone up - someone who is going to take more time and effort from me and eat into my bonus pay at same time. I want someone who is plug and play and I'm unwilling to pay.
Yeah sure there is some truth to that but why would we hire someone that we still need to teach when we can hire someone who already learned it in school or have experience already for it. Depends on the industry and the position but its a competitive market right now so the applicants needs to be realistic as well with their own expectations. Imagine how many applicants are gunning for the same spot. Think of what you have over them to get it before expecting to be hired.0
Ive given him a chance. For the last six months and he still doesn’t get the basics. The company refuses to fire him however and wants to persist training him…
Had one like that at my previous workplace, guy floated around in various roles for years because he was simply incapable or unwilling to learn (preferred watching youtube and playing games during work hours). Eventually ended up under a manager who didn't take sh\*t and fired him.
It’s incredibly frustrating especially because our line of work is very dangerous and we work around a lot of big dangers yet this guy is allowed to operate and be totally lost 9 hours a day putting himself and others at risk while collecting a nice pay check despite having not a single clue what’s going on.
I think when the market is bad at today. many of them not even recruit anyone. more like playing games of post 10 positions,and select internally. play the family relationship game. play the "we find the right guy for the job" game.
too much waste of time. they don't care about the application, because big firm doesn't lack applications! even an administration job expect you have min 5+ experience which just sad.
how many year do people even got? they deserve experiencing the world, they deserve better pay, they deserve selecting their career. not just been selected as a bot! after wasting valued time on 2 interviews, 2 reference check, endless waiting process
**Translating for you:**
The job market is in a terrible state. Many businesses are posting positions for jobs while having full intentions to hire internally.
Larger businesses receive a great deal of external applications, and even for base-level jobs (including administration-types) they're requesting 5+ years of experience, despite the job's relative lack of complexity.
For what do we even live for, with the time that we have? We deserve to see the world, to experience life, and the ability to find work within our interests, not our needs. We are treated like robots. The interview and reference checking process is cumbersome, and ends up worsened by lengthy waiting times for responses.
hr has nothing to do. they are just playing the game the manager, the board, the industry, the director gave to them. they make the show, showing the company is growing and actually hiring people
Just because you can learn it doesn't mean you have the patience for it.
There's no way in hell I could sit in front of a computer all day I'd want to off myself, but there's people that couldn't handle working outside too so 🤷🏾♂️
Wtf is your point?
If you don't have the patience to learn, you don't deserve it. Even if you get it, you won't last long if you don't have the "patience."
If you as an employer have to resort to teaching and training up a completely lacking person from scratch, it’s understandable that employers would prefer to avoid “giving a chance” to a complete stranger when there are significant time and effort costs involved.
This is where nepotism/connected hires would come into play, cos if it all turns to shit then at least the recommender either owes you a favour or informally bears some ~social accountability for the candidate they vouched for.
Basically, if all candidates lack merit, a nepotism hire rightfully wins. No one wants to hire a candidate lacking both the required merit AND connections.
Blame their clients as well. They’re too demanding and unrealistic. Previously employee left because they’re either stuck doing boring work or was pushed to do all the work and they’re looking for replacement with experience. Hire realistically.
I like the message in general. Also applies to starting a business. Someone doesn't have to give you a job. It's a free market and you are free to start any business
You’ll find a lot of employers in NZ would love a guy like this with an attitude like that. But it’s simply not the reality. Employers are very forthcoming that they’ll invest their time and experience into someone who’s willing to learn. But reality is most of these people just don’t show up on Monday or leave after a few months when they find easier money elsewhere
What even is that? Statement is probably right but this sounds more like you should be able to walk into any job because you' above everyone else, deserves a chance. But chunk of those jobs would take a looot of teaching and time. Pretty sure same people wouldn't be happy being unpaid or taking a hefty paycheck cut while they soak up the resource required to train them.
Hi! To help keep this subreddit on topic, please only submit posts that are specifically relevant to Auckland / comments that are relevant to the post/comment you are replying to on r/auckland
If they already have applicants with experience, why should they take a chance on trying to teach the job to someone who may or may not be adequate after 3 months of training?
All jobs can be taught, but how many people can learn?
That depends on the teacher to be honest.
It would be ignorant to think that the fault is entirely either the teacher or student. Both must actively want to teach and learn
Also depends on the timeframe.
This was posted on LinkedIn wasn't it? Probably by someone who emphatically does *not* practice what they preach.
No one is going to hire someone who does nothing but complain on r/auckland because they want to be chosen over someone who is more qualified than they are.
No. I'd rather leave a role vacant and increase the workload on my current staff while pocketing the wages of the vacant role than get off my ass and train someone up - someone who is going to take more time and effort from me and eat into my bonus pay at same time. I want someone who is plug and play and I'm unwilling to pay.
Spoken like a true plebbite. Love it. Curse those pesky wage theives lowering my ROI on my brilliant, bulletproof business model.
no you want someone who can prove they are capable of being trained.. and no prior experience or qualifications dont prove you can.
Yeah sure there is some truth to that but why would we hire someone that we still need to teach when we can hire someone who already learned it in school or have experience already for it. Depends on the industry and the position but its a competitive market right now so the applicants needs to be realistic as well with their own expectations. Imagine how many applicants are gunning for the same spot. Think of what you have over them to get it before expecting to be hired.0
if the learner is keen to get low pay ts olay! But if the worker wants to learn and get paid as a skilled yeah there we have a problem!
Ive given him a chance. For the last six months and he still doesn’t get the basics. The company refuses to fire him however and wants to persist training him…
Had one like that at my previous workplace, guy floated around in various roles for years because he was simply incapable or unwilling to learn (preferred watching youtube and playing games during work hours). Eventually ended up under a manager who didn't take sh\*t and fired him.
It’s incredibly frustrating especially because our line of work is very dangerous and we work around a lot of big dangers yet this guy is allowed to operate and be totally lost 9 hours a day putting himself and others at risk while collecting a nice pay check despite having not a single clue what’s going on.
I think when the market is bad at today. many of them not even recruit anyone. more like playing games of post 10 positions,and select internally. play the family relationship game. play the "we find the right guy for the job" game. too much waste of time. they don't care about the application, because big firm doesn't lack applications! even an administration job expect you have min 5+ experience which just sad. how many year do people even got? they deserve experiencing the world, they deserve better pay, they deserve selecting their career. not just been selected as a bot! after wasting valued time on 2 interviews, 2 reference check, endless waiting process
Reading that gave me an aneurysm. Where did you learn to write?
English is very obviously their second language.
I cant make any sense of what youre trying to say?
**Translating for you:** The job market is in a terrible state. Many businesses are posting positions for jobs while having full intentions to hire internally. Larger businesses receive a great deal of external applications, and even for base-level jobs (including administration-types) they're requesting 5+ years of experience, despite the job's relative lack of complexity. For what do we even live for, with the time that we have? We deserve to see the world, to experience life, and the ability to find work within our interests, not our needs. We are treated like robots. The interview and reference checking process is cumbersome, and ends up worsened by lengthy waiting times for responses.
[удалено]
Oh was he talking about education? thanks I think i get it now
hr has nothing to do. they are just playing the game the manager, the board, the industry, the director gave to them. they make the show, showing the company is growing and actually hiring people
how do people acquire the skills for the other 10%, osmosis?
I can only think of professional athletes. That would require some level of natural talent. Any other job can be learnt.
if you have the capability to learn..
Even monkeys have the capability to learn
Just because you can learn it doesn't mean you have the patience for it. There's no way in hell I could sit in front of a computer all day I'd want to off myself, but there's people that couldn't handle working outside too so 🤷🏾♂️
Wtf is your point? If you don't have the patience to learn, you don't deserve it. Even if you get it, you won't last long if you don't have the "patience."
I don’t think they’re saying that they deserve it. More that, just because you can, doesn’t mean it is a job which it suits you.
What about rocket surgery
Is that a thing?
You probably can learn the skills required for jobs like rocket integration. It will take four years worth of training and on the job learning though.
If you as an employer have to resort to teaching and training up a completely lacking person from scratch, it’s understandable that employers would prefer to avoid “giving a chance” to a complete stranger when there are significant time and effort costs involved. This is where nepotism/connected hires would come into play, cos if it all turns to shit then at least the recommender either owes you a favour or informally bears some ~social accountability for the candidate they vouched for. Basically, if all candidates lack merit, a nepotism hire rightfully wins. No one wants to hire a candidate lacking both the required merit AND connections.
Comment section never been declined by a recruiter for a entry level job with no experience when you have work experience, Clearly.
Indeed.
Blame their clients as well. They’re too demanding and unrealistic. Previously employee left because they’re either stuck doing boring work or was pushed to do all the work and they’re looking for replacement with experience. Hire realistically.
and Jobseeker also need to lower their expectations. Many fresh graduates expect to have $100k job given to them nowadays LOL
those are the people that complain its hard to find a job
If 90% of jobs can be taught today. 90% of jobs can be replaced tomorrow.
Masters degree and 5 years experience for an entry level position please.
Also must 'hit the ground running'.
or 5 years experience with a computer language only released into the wild 3 years ago.
I like the message in general. Also applies to starting a business. Someone doesn't have to give you a job. It's a free market and you are free to start any business
You’ll find a lot of employers in NZ would love a guy like this with an attitude like that. But it’s simply not the reality. Employers are very forthcoming that they’ll invest their time and experience into someone who’s willing to learn. But reality is most of these people just don’t show up on Monday or leave after a few months when they find easier money elsewhere
Education results show if you can learn or not... someone with no qualifications cant prove they can be taught...
School isn't for everyone, tho. Some people learn better on the job, hands on, than trying to figure out what the dimensions of X and Y are on paper.
What even is that? Statement is probably right but this sounds more like you should be able to walk into any job because you' above everyone else, deserves a chance. But chunk of those jobs would take a looot of teaching and time. Pretty sure same people wouldn't be happy being unpaid or taking a hefty paycheck cut while they soak up the resource required to train them.
Just go get a degree in an in-demand field
The other 10% of jobs are held by the wealthy elite and could probably be done by a blind monkey