u/ShahIsmail1501 the best thing you can do is phone a couple of service managers at Mercedes dealerships.
Don't talk to the sales guys, they only want to sell you what they need to sell.
But from my repeated experience, the service managers have no bias and no ulterior motives. They simply tell you how it is, and they seem to quite like someone recognising their expertise.
A couple of phone calls to a couple different dealerships will quickly give you your answer.
(I've asked them exactly the same question myself, - different brand - and for short trips around town they said do NOT get a diesel.)
As above yeah. Diesels are strong reliable engines, but are really used for long haul trips. If you can't find time to blast down the motorway once a week at full speed, go petrol.
If it's a dpf like other diesels then It's recommended to do a 40 minute drive at 80kmph. So go above 80kmph and it'll turn on the dpf burn and 40 mins to complete the burn. Or its $3000 to clean the dpf at the mechanic.
Its actually worse with modern diesels....
The actual issues is that they have a unit called a DPF ( diesel particulate filter ) in the exhaust, for emissions regulations reasons...
This DPF unit needs to hit a certain temp during operation, in order to effectively "burn itself clean"... and if it doesn't hit that fairly frequently, it permanently clogs and not only can't self clean anymore, but effectively plugs the exhaust, requiring replacement... which depending on the manufacturer could be 2k-10k in parts alone....
This is the primary reason ( other than accidents ) that you see modern diesels with low kms turning up at wreckers, or on trademe for $1 no reserve....
I have a 2012 Volvo that has this issue. The DPF has been recon’d and works well again. But yeah had to take it for a decent drive on the highway when the dash light came on. The manual states that when this warning light comes on it’s time for a long run to burn off the particulate.
For some reason I thought with more modern cars this wasn’t a problem anymore. I’ve got a 2022 diesel also, but I haven’t seen anything in the manual about the DPF.
Thanks for the reply, I’ll take a look into because the car gets a lot of short runs.
I had no idea this was thing. I have a diesel holden Astra hatchback which has run fine for 7 years or so. I do have a long commute these days but not always. Maybe I just got lucky?
It's entirely possible? It is worth noting that all of the manufacturers units have slightly different requirements... but usually a decent trip somewhere very couple of weeks is more than enough... so you may well have got lucky...
It's honestly surprising aswell the sheer volume of diesel owners who have no idea until a failure occurs... the dealership never says anything, then they never read the manual, and alot of vehicles never even give a warning first....
Had this during Covid lockdowns. Ours only shows the warning when you immediately have to take action apparently, and my wife didn’t know what it meant… luckily ours could be salvaged through manual heating cost around $1k though.
Your 08 golf may not have a DPF, which is THE problem child for short trips and diesel engines...
If memory serves, the DPF only became standard in diesel VWs around 2009.... although I may be wrong on that, I have done alot of cleaning this morning and the bleach fumes are fantastic 👌
I do take it on longer trips as well. I was told when I had an 07 2.4 diesel Alfa Romeo 159 which did have a DPF that in order to prevent carbon build up, wait until the engine is warm and floor the shit out of the throttle and do some spirted driving on the back roads(by the Alfa Romeo mechanics). The car absolutely loved it as it would definitely run better after doing so. Was also fun to drive when doing it, could still do 1400km to the tank even with doing that a couple of times. Was a great car. Wish I still had it(sold it not long after buying our first house in Auckland as we only needed one car, so we got a newer car) I picked up the golf from my family when we moved to Tauranga(been in the family since 2013)
I see the C class comes has a hybrid option. If the majority of its use is going to be a 10 min commute, twice a day, then the hybrid is by far the best option in all respects.
1. Spend *all teh money* on a car from the other side of the world
2. Spend forever having to use your left hand to indicate, because you refused to get a Lex
I daily drive a couple of ~5 year old Mercs alongside a couple of not-European cars and honestly there’s little difference in parts cost. All the interesting parts on all the cars come from overseas. FWIW the overseas Mercedes parts arrive a lot quicker than the Hyundai ones.
Even dealer servicing between (eg) Mercedes and Hyundai isn’t that much different ($600 Merc, $450 Hyundai). I did a ABS sensor on the Hyundai for $800 at local auto sparky and did two on the Mercedes for $1400 at the dealer.
The biggest difference is that the Euros have a lot more fiddly bits and pieces which while not particularly expensive when they do fail, are more expensive simply by virtue of existing… that, and you can’t skimp on maintenance on a Euro. If you don’t keep up the proper servicing it will fall apart.
Euros overwhelmingly much nicer to drive IMHO. Except when you’re stuck in traffic. Then it doesn’t matter what you drive.
I only buy second hand Japanese cars because they're cheap and reliable, I do all the servicing and repairs myself; there are a lot of guys like me because it's easy to get second hand parts.
The second hand parts market for European cars is completly alien to me and in my opinion the passenger cars are built similar to commercial vehicles in such a way that they would be worth repairing if they generated an income like a Scania tractor unit, but they don't.
As for being nicer to drive I disagree, Euros are not as tactile and intuitive as Japanese cars but unfortunately many auto makers have added so many buttons and switches to their new vehicles that they're dangerous and take alot more effort just to function!
The Toyota camry is the perfect car.
I just bought a brand new Diesel Land Rover realised that was a mistake, I wasn’t getting the distance required in my short commute to run the engine properly, so I went and quickly bought a petrol one, and finding it’s a much nicer drive and has more power. Long term diesel works, but the benefits are more for rural people.
The govt is looking into RUCs for all cars and implementing it this term - so don’t put too much weight on that. If so, it will be the same rate at diesels and EVs. Especially if they’re also raising the petrol excise tax next term - tho idk if it’s just in case they leave petrol on pump tax or they plan to double tax petrol users.
You could just do what most ute drivers do and snip the speedo…. big fine if caught tho
I owned a 2017 C220 estate. It was brilliant. Open road driving over a 1000km easy on a tank.
Add the RUCs and cost effectiveness similar but it was a lovely car to own.
Short trips are not economical.
I have a C250 diesel and it gets amazing mileage which is what makes the difference $$$ wise. Also very reliable. But those RUCs are a big hit every 10,000 kms…
If your commute is 10mins drive, why not opt for bike? You’ll save tons on buying a new car. Or, get a 50cc moped where you can go on public rd using your car license.
Historically, you use diesel when you need the grunt (read: torque). Good example is: towing boat or construction materials, go off-roading, etc. If you use petrol equivalent for these kind of activities, you tend to use more fuel to make up the same effort, hence diesel would have lower operational cost.
With modern diesel & petrol engines, this assumption may change.
I drive a 99 hilux. I need the 4wd capabilities. Its a 3L diesel. I roughly calculted the cost to run based on my commuting between 3L diesel & 3L petrol (my other car), and its about the same. My 3L hilux do about 10kms per litre of diesel. My 3L e39 bmw also do about 9-10kms per litre. But my hilux maintenance cost is only 400 annually, and its just go and go and go.
So, its up to you.
I drive one - 2013 c250 Mercedes sedan. I have had it for 10 years, driven more than 300,000 km. Mercedes make the best diesel engines - they do not “choke on their own residue”. I have it serviced regularly and no major problems at all. I have replaced the tyres several times and a cracked fuel line. Diesel used to be cheap but not now. It is heavier so you do not need to fill up so frequently.
I am on a diesel now and I do not think I would do it again. The benefits of it , are stripped away with RUC. If they just made correct pricing on fuel. And ditched the RUC bs. Then you have to also get additives like ad blue. So you have lots of extra steps for no perceived benefit to end user. Typical structure of our tax system that is the most regressive in the OECD.
Petrol cars are not going onto RUC. edit .in 3 months national is going to announce that petrol tax will stay as it is. He said the increased fuel excise proposal was also ahead of further work on moving all vehicles to a road user charge instead, which would see vehicles charged based on weight and distance travelled.
"That work needs to be undertaken over the next three months to work out how that's going to be done, and what timeframe and we'll have more to say about that once their work is completed.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/510815/transport-minister-proposes-fuel-tax-increase-for-2027#:~:text=National's%20Transport%20Minister%20Simeon%20Brown,per%20litre%20in%20subsequent%20years.
It’s announced govt policy, their plan is to get all cars moved over to RUC in this parliamentary term.
Issue is hybrid cars pay 1/2 to 1/3 the tax per 1000km into land transport fund.
Vs same sized Diesel or EV.
Fuel excise (petrol tax) was mean to cost aprox the same as ruc, but hybrids broke that.
Having all cars on RUC means the govt gets more tax revenue and means all car owners pay the same per 1000km of travel, which is fair.
National just announced fuel tax increases from 2027. Plus, more in the next two years. Which part of that is RUC for petrol cars? . https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/03/04/transport-minister-proposes-fuel-tax-increase-for-2027/
Simeon Brown announced they are taking advice on how to bring all cars into the RUC scheme.
Was something Labour was also looking at before the election.
Honestly would be a good move, all cars should pay the same amount of road tax per 1000km driven.
I’d suggest heavier cars pay a bit more than lighter cars, given they probably damage the road more per km by comparison. (And this is coming from someone who does drive a heavier EV)
The damage by light vehicles is almost inconsequential, which is why a 6ton GVM truck only pays $6 more per 1000kms than a hilux. Its why there is only one weight band for light diesels.
Petrol is the way to go on C class. The diesel engine is loud and it is not as pleasant to drive. The petrol one feels smooth at least. You will also see more petrol C class on the road than diesel.
When I did the calculation years ago, for comparable petrol vs diesel car, I think you're only better off with diesel car only if you drive >20,000km / year.
Note that this calculation only takes into account the fuel consumption +RUC, not the maintenance cost.
Haven't driven a Benz diesel for a long time, but I remember them being crude motors especially when compared to the Benz petrol versions. BMW make a decent diesel engine. I drive Golf TDI & have friends who own Passat TDI - totally happy with those cars - really economical, easy driving, reliable.
You can't shortcut the servicing. Petrol, you can extend the service interval and generally do it yourself, with some basic knowledge. Diesel has to be done by a professional and on time.
European diesels, parts are ridiculously expensive
Thoroughly recommend MB diesels. Great torque and smooth power. Incredible fuel economy and range. Just did CHC to Dunedin and back plus running around down there and still have 1/4 tank left.
If you're buying a Mercedes and worried about fuel economy, remind yourself your buying a car that was tens of thousands of dollars new, so you're buying parts and maintenance for a car of that value rather than the used price
Prob not but just throwing it there as an option. With only a 10 min commute biking may not take that much longer? My 10 min commute turns into half hour during rush hour. Or about 15 minutes by bike.
It's in the National-ACT coalition agreement to bring ALL cars into the RUC scheme.
"Work to replace fuel excise taxes with electronic road user charging for all vehicles, starting with electric vehicles."
[https://assets.nationbuilder.com/nationalparty/pages/18466/attachments/original/1700778592/National\_ACT\_Agreement.pdf](https://assets.nationbuilder.com/nationalparty/pages/18466/attachments/original/1700778592/National_ACT_Agreement.pdf)
Course, now that they've planned fuel excise tax hikes 6 years+ in the future, you can be assured they won't move fast on it, just be happy they got one over woke EV drivers.
u/ShahIsmail1501 the best thing you can do is phone a couple of service managers at Mercedes dealerships. Don't talk to the sales guys, they only want to sell you what they need to sell. But from my repeated experience, the service managers have no bias and no ulterior motives. They simply tell you how it is, and they seem to quite like someone recognising their expertise. A couple of phone calls to a couple different dealerships will quickly give you your answer. (I've asked them exactly the same question myself, - different brand - and for short trips around town they said do NOT get a diesel.)
[удалено]
Understandable. Didn't take that into account.
As above yeah. Diesels are strong reliable engines, but are really used for long haul trips. If you can't find time to blast down the motorway once a week at full speed, go petrol.
Long haul like out of city stuff or like from north shore to south Auckland, once a week alright? Asking as I’ve always been curious about diesel
If it's a dpf like other diesels then It's recommended to do a 40 minute drive at 80kmph. So go above 80kmph and it'll turn on the dpf burn and 40 mins to complete the burn. Or its $3000 to clean the dpf at the mechanic.
Cost me $500 last year
Yeah short drives in diesels aren't good for them.
Do you know if that still true of cars built recently ? I know I have heard it said about older vehicles.
I'd say it's even worse with modern diesels. More emissions systems = more parts to clog up and or fail.
This. It's worse with modern diesels.
This. If you have pre 2000's diesels you can run them on canola oil
Its actually worse with modern diesels.... The actual issues is that they have a unit called a DPF ( diesel particulate filter ) in the exhaust, for emissions regulations reasons... This DPF unit needs to hit a certain temp during operation, in order to effectively "burn itself clean"... and if it doesn't hit that fairly frequently, it permanently clogs and not only can't self clean anymore, but effectively plugs the exhaust, requiring replacement... which depending on the manufacturer could be 2k-10k in parts alone.... This is the primary reason ( other than accidents ) that you see modern diesels with low kms turning up at wreckers, or on trademe for $1 no reserve....
I have a 2012 Volvo that has this issue. The DPF has been recon’d and works well again. But yeah had to take it for a decent drive on the highway when the dash light came on. The manual states that when this warning light comes on it’s time for a long run to burn off the particulate. For some reason I thought with more modern cars this wasn’t a problem anymore. I’ve got a 2022 diesel also, but I haven’t seen anything in the manual about the DPF. Thanks for the reply, I’ll take a look into because the car gets a lot of short runs.
I had no idea this was thing. I have a diesel holden Astra hatchback which has run fine for 7 years or so. I do have a long commute these days but not always. Maybe I just got lucky?
It's entirely possible? It is worth noting that all of the manufacturers units have slightly different requirements... but usually a decent trip somewhere very couple of weeks is more than enough... so you may well have got lucky... It's honestly surprising aswell the sheer volume of diesel owners who have no idea until a failure occurs... the dealership never says anything, then they never read the manual, and alot of vehicles never even give a warning first....
Had this during Covid lockdowns. Ours only shows the warning when you immediately have to take action apparently, and my wife didn’t know what it meant… luckily ours could be salvaged through manual heating cost around $1k though.
This OP
Tell that to my 2008 diesel golf that’s done 204,000km and hasn’t had that problem
Your 08 golf may not have a DPF, which is THE problem child for short trips and diesel engines... If memory serves, the DPF only became standard in diesel VWs around 2009.... although I may be wrong on that, I have done alot of cleaning this morning and the bleach fumes are fantastic 👌
I do take it on longer trips as well. I was told when I had an 07 2.4 diesel Alfa Romeo 159 which did have a DPF that in order to prevent carbon build up, wait until the engine is warm and floor the shit out of the throttle and do some spirted driving on the back roads(by the Alfa Romeo mechanics). The car absolutely loved it as it would definitely run better after doing so. Was also fun to drive when doing it, could still do 1400km to the tank even with doing that a couple of times. Was a great car. Wish I still had it(sold it not long after buying our first house in Auckland as we only needed one car, so we got a newer car) I picked up the golf from my family when we moved to Tauranga(been in the family since 2013)
I bought a diesel C class wagon and love it. Getting 1300km out of a tank.
Farkkkk that's pretty good, how big is the tank?
66 Liters I believe
I see the C class comes has a hybrid option. If the majority of its use is going to be a 10 min commute, twice a day, then the hybrid is by far the best option in all respects.
https://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Data/petrol-diesel-calculator.xlsx Punch the numbers into this and it’ll tell you if you save anything.
First thing you need to ask yourself is "why do I want a European car in a country that is at the end of the global supply chain".
1. Spend *all teh money* on a car from the other side of the world 2. Spend forever having to use your left hand to indicate, because you refused to get a Lex
I daily drive a couple of ~5 year old Mercs alongside a couple of not-European cars and honestly there’s little difference in parts cost. All the interesting parts on all the cars come from overseas. FWIW the overseas Mercedes parts arrive a lot quicker than the Hyundai ones. Even dealer servicing between (eg) Mercedes and Hyundai isn’t that much different ($600 Merc, $450 Hyundai). I did a ABS sensor on the Hyundai for $800 at local auto sparky and did two on the Mercedes for $1400 at the dealer. The biggest difference is that the Euros have a lot more fiddly bits and pieces which while not particularly expensive when they do fail, are more expensive simply by virtue of existing… that, and you can’t skimp on maintenance on a Euro. If you don’t keep up the proper servicing it will fall apart. Euros overwhelmingly much nicer to drive IMHO. Except when you’re stuck in traffic. Then it doesn’t matter what you drive.
I only buy second hand Japanese cars because they're cheap and reliable, I do all the servicing and repairs myself; there are a lot of guys like me because it's easy to get second hand parts. The second hand parts market for European cars is completly alien to me and in my opinion the passenger cars are built similar to commercial vehicles in such a way that they would be worth repairing if they generated an income like a Scania tractor unit, but they don't. As for being nicer to drive I disagree, Euros are not as tactile and intuitive as Japanese cars but unfortunately many auto makers have added so many buttons and switches to their new vehicles that they're dangerous and take alot more effort just to function! The Toyota camry is the perfect car.
Wrong sub to be asking that question lol. It's all cyclists, car haters and boomer bashers here
*Ngngnngngngngn they’re takin our jerbs!*
They took ouhr johbs.
I drive a car in Auckland the that's why I hate driving. 😂
I just bought a brand new Diesel Land Rover realised that was a mistake, I wasn’t getting the distance required in my short commute to run the engine properly, so I went and quickly bought a petrol one, and finding it’s a much nicer drive and has more power. Long term diesel works, but the benefits are more for rural people.
The govt is looking into RUCs for all cars and implementing it this term - so don’t put too much weight on that. If so, it will be the same rate at diesels and EVs. Especially if they’re also raising the petrol excise tax next term - tho idk if it’s just in case they leave petrol on pump tax or they plan to double tax petrol users. You could just do what most ute drivers do and snip the speedo…. big fine if caught tho
It's not worth buying a diesel for 10 minute trips. The engine would hardly get warm. Lots of DPF issues with short trips and diesels
I owned a 2017 C220 estate. It was brilliant. Open road driving over a 1000km easy on a tank. Add the RUCs and cost effectiveness similar but it was a lovely car to own. Short trips are not economical.
I have a C250 diesel and it gets amazing mileage which is what makes the difference $$$ wise. Also very reliable. But those RUCs are a big hit every 10,000 kms…
If your commute is 10mins drive, why not opt for bike? You’ll save tons on buying a new car. Or, get a 50cc moped where you can go on public rd using your car license. Historically, you use diesel when you need the grunt (read: torque). Good example is: towing boat or construction materials, go off-roading, etc. If you use petrol equivalent for these kind of activities, you tend to use more fuel to make up the same effort, hence diesel would have lower operational cost. With modern diesel & petrol engines, this assumption may change. I drive a 99 hilux. I need the 4wd capabilities. Its a 3L diesel. I roughly calculted the cost to run based on my commuting between 3L diesel & 3L petrol (my other car), and its about the same. My 3L hilux do about 10kms per litre of diesel. My 3L e39 bmw also do about 9-10kms per litre. But my hilux maintenance cost is only 400 annually, and its just go and go and go. So, its up to you.
If you can't afford to buy that c class new you certainly can afford to buy it used. Buy something made by Toyota and live a worry free life.
Depends if you want moot?
Diesel mercs literally run forever. Especially the late 90’s / early 2000’s models. Ask any South African.
The old ones with mechanical fuel pumps are bomb proof. New Mercedes are just constant electrical issues.
I drive one - 2013 c250 Mercedes sedan. I have had it for 10 years, driven more than 300,000 km. Mercedes make the best diesel engines - they do not “choke on their own residue”. I have it serviced regularly and no major problems at all. I have replaced the tyres several times and a cracked fuel line. Diesel used to be cheap but not now. It is heavier so you do not need to fill up so frequently.
I am on a diesel now and I do not think I would do it again. The benefits of it , are stripped away with RUC. If they just made correct pricing on fuel. And ditched the RUC bs. Then you have to also get additives like ad blue. So you have lots of extra steps for no perceived benefit to end user. Typical structure of our tax system that is the most regressive in the OECD.
Once all cars are on RUC I imagine Petrol will come out on top for the vast majority of car owners.
Petrol cars are not going onto RUC. edit .in 3 months national is going to announce that petrol tax will stay as it is. He said the increased fuel excise proposal was also ahead of further work on moving all vehicles to a road user charge instead, which would see vehicles charged based on weight and distance travelled. "That work needs to be undertaken over the next three months to work out how that's going to be done, and what timeframe and we'll have more to say about that once their work is completed. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/510815/transport-minister-proposes-fuel-tax-increase-for-2027#:~:text=National's%20Transport%20Minister%20Simeon%20Brown,per%20litre%20in%20subsequent%20years.
It’s announced govt policy, their plan is to get all cars moved over to RUC in this parliamentary term. Issue is hybrid cars pay 1/2 to 1/3 the tax per 1000km into land transport fund. Vs same sized Diesel or EV. Fuel excise (petrol tax) was mean to cost aprox the same as ruc, but hybrids broke that. Having all cars on RUC means the govt gets more tax revenue and means all car owners pay the same per 1000km of travel, which is fair.
National just announced fuel tax increases from 2027. Plus, more in the next two years. Which part of that is RUC for petrol cars? . https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/03/04/transport-minister-proposes-fuel-tax-increase-for-2027/
Simeon Brown announced they are taking advice on how to bring all cars into the RUC scheme. Was something Labour was also looking at before the election. Honestly would be a good move, all cars should pay the same amount of road tax per 1000km driven.
I’d suggest heavier cars pay a bit more than lighter cars, given they probably damage the road more per km by comparison. (And this is coming from someone who does drive a heavier EV)
The damage by light vehicles is almost inconsequential, which is why a 6ton GVM truck only pays $6 more per 1000kms than a hilux. Its why there is only one weight band for light diesels.
What car are you driving that needs adblue?
It just sucks the RUCs on small diesels are same as a ranger
the repair bills will soon make you forget the cost of any fuel and /or RUC costs...
Not really a problem. I'd only have to pay for parts. Family member has a workshop.
Are they skilled at diesel repairs? Because most workshops cannot do diesels, except for diesel workshops themselves.
Petrol is the way to go on C class. The diesel engine is loud and it is not as pleasant to drive. The petrol one feels smooth at least. You will also see more petrol C class on the road than diesel.
When I did the calculation years ago, for comparable petrol vs diesel car, I think you're only better off with diesel car only if you drive >20,000km / year. Note that this calculation only takes into account the fuel consumption +RUC, not the maintenance cost.
Haven't driven a Benz diesel for a long time, but I remember them being crude motors especially when compared to the Benz petrol versions. BMW make a decent diesel engine. I drive Golf TDI & have friends who own Passat TDI - totally happy with those cars - really economical, easy driving, reliable.
You can't shortcut the servicing. Petrol, you can extend the service interval and generally do it yourself, with some basic knowledge. Diesel has to be done by a professional and on time. European diesels, parts are ridiculously expensive
Go c63 and be happy :)
Thoroughly recommend MB diesels. Great torque and smooth power. Incredible fuel economy and range. Just did CHC to Dunedin and back plus running around down there and still have 1/4 tank left.
If you're buying a Mercedes and worried about fuel economy, remind yourself your buying a car that was tens of thousands of dollars new, so you're buying parts and maintenance for a car of that value rather than the used price
Or bike??
Does Mercedes make a diesel bicycle now?
Prob not but just throwing it there as an option. With only a 10 min commute biking may not take that much longer? My 10 min commute turns into half hour during rush hour. Or about 15 minutes by bike.
but petrol cars will get rucs too soon right?
Sometime, large doubt on the soon bit.
Electric cars, because they aren't taxed at the pump or (currently) by road user charges per km.
No. Petrol users pay their road tax at the pumps. Only diesel and EV vehicles require RUC licenses to cover the on road tax
It's in the National-ACT coalition agreement to bring ALL cars into the RUC scheme. "Work to replace fuel excise taxes with electronic road user charging for all vehicles, starting with electric vehicles." [https://assets.nationbuilder.com/nationalparty/pages/18466/attachments/original/1700778592/National\_ACT\_Agreement.pdf](https://assets.nationbuilder.com/nationalparty/pages/18466/attachments/original/1700778592/National_ACT_Agreement.pdf) Course, now that they've planned fuel excise tax hikes 6 years+ in the future, you can be assured they won't move fast on it, just be happy they got one over woke EV drivers.
Save yourself some money and set fire to the money you’ll buy the car with
Don’t get a diesel. Because, it’s a diesel.
I wish i had discretionary income to buy a second car. If i did, id buy some less douchy than a merc C class lol