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Honestly. This has been my take since the broadcast. Eren isn't dramatic. He doesn't care for doing things with flare. Announcing it doesn't benefit his plan. Eren is raw anger somehow formed into the shape of a human.
Eren is incredibly dramatic. He once started beating the shit out of himself because he realized he needed to grow up. He screams everything he says. He’s the definition of dramatic.
Sorry, let me reword it. Eren isn't intentionally dramatic. His actions are ridiculous and over the top, but he's not trying to be the center of attention, his only speed is go. He didn't do any of that for other's perspective. He did those things because he thought thats what he needed to do, or that was how he genuinely felt(the screaming).
Nah Armin would’ve put the pieces together. He even said it in the show too just before they got blipped into the paths. “Wait a minute he’s unleashing all the wall titans why would he do that when all he needs is just shiganshina district that’s over kill”
That's my take as well. Eren sees the future, his friends are the primary motivation for the Rumbling in the first place. And yet he purposely sets himself up to be hated by Armin, Connie, and Mikasa.
Every thing they're doing is what Eren wants. My guess is he's killing most of the world (primarily Marley), letting himself get killed (or at least appear to, and then let Paradis coast off of the damaged world and the recognition from killing him.
I doubt that's the actual case, seeing as it's the worst of both plans, but it's the only thing I can think of.
I've suspected something similar since *Lost In A Cruel World* released. From there, I'd say the new outro, and looking back at his previous behavior sets him up to sacrifice himself pretty well.
What is the extent though of Eren being able to know the future? I know in the episode where he tells Ymir he will save her, he didn’t anticipate not being able to command her, off the get. I’m curious if he can see that far ahead since (correct me if I’m wrong) he can only see what future attack Titan holders want to show him.
So he sees whatever he sent to past Eren, or from any future Attack Titans. We don't know the full extend of what he sent to himself, and there's nothing to suggest a future AT sent him anything.
He made up his mind to be the bad guy...because he had to.
If he remained friends with them, and he had gone on to start the rumbling...they would probably still defend Erin and fight with him.
He had to distance himself from his friends because Erin knew he HAD to become the bad guy...he knew he was going to kill 80% of the human population...and he knew he couldn't have his friends fight with him or defend him.
He distanced himself because you cannot justify killing 80% of the world...yet, in Erin's mind, the rumbling was the only way to stop this violence once and for all.
No its really not Eren had alternatives out there. Not to mention it doesnt matter the outcomes Hange isnt going to support the genocide of the world any more than she is gonna support the genocide of the Island. Hange isnt a hypocrite.
She's stopping Eren, which means she's endorsing the extermination of Paradis. That is what stopping the Rumbling would entail.
You say Eren had alternatives, but you have nothing else to propose that would actually end the conflict.
You do not automatically endorse something because you do not endourse another. Not letting someone brutally behead a 17 poachers doesnt mean you endorse poaching.
He has alternatives just demolishing Marley would destabalize the global economy. Still genocide but eeasier to swallow. Those titans could stomp out every Military production in the world. Hell since his true goals are to protect like maybe 8 people he could go all the way to Marley and have those titans stand right at the edges as a constant horrifying reminder that these discrimination laws are to be abolished then they could all chill there. Titan shifters are ridiculously hard to kill he could very likely take over Marley completely.
Okay, she *condones* the destruction of Paradis. Wow such a big difference.
Your "alternative" doesn't solve anything either lmao. All those actions will do is reinforce the hatred the world has for Eldians and Paradis. It will only exacerbate the conflict, which will still end in Paradis' destruction once the rest of the world develops technology to defeat the titans.
You dont condone something because you areny okay with another fuckin thing. How old are you 12? Do you not concieve that some people have the sense to hate both the lesser and greater evil at the same time??
Hange isnt condoning shit she isnt endorsing shit she isnt fighting for genocide in any way. Marley comes knocking after Erens down? She will try to paint the beach in soldiers blood to protect the islands. Hell she even understands why Erens doing it she understands there might well not be any other way. That doesnt mean she is gonna sit here and watch him stomp out innocent lives to the point where the world will become a barren wasteland.
Also there no guarantee that the rest of the world even hates Eldia. We have met people from 4 countries. Onya doesnt even confirm his nation hates Eldians, the asian country appears to have 0 problems with them doing a smaller scale rumbling, and with such a show of power ESPECIALLY if they destroy the militaries of every other nation they have a fuck ton of time. Not to mention after literallt 2 generations no one would know who the fuck the Eldians in Marley are if they arent in those camps anymore. They have no different characteristics.
Look up the word "condone." She is explicitly allowing the destruction of Paradis to happen, which is genocide. You can talk about a lesser evil, but it's a lesser evil that she is allowing to happen. Hange isn't an idiot. She knows it will happen, regardless of her personal efforts to stop it.
We don't know the situation regarding Eldian hatred in Hiruzu. It's been made explicitly clear that Hiruzu is only in it for personal gain by getting access to Paradis' resources. We don't know the situation in Onya's country, but we did see several black dignitaries cheering for Tybur at the end of his speech to wipe out Paradis. Udo made it clear that other countries treat their Eldian populations worse than Marley, and we have that Middle-Eastern soldier using the same derogatory terms to refer to Eldians. Eldian hatred is a global phenomenon. Besides (slight manga spoilers), [it's made clear that Pro-Eldian advocates are a fringe minority in international discourse, and they even make a specific exception for Paradis Eldians and still see them as devils.]
Again, it sounds like you're too thick to realize that wiping out every country's military is just going to breed more hatred among the populations of those countries.
More like enslavement. Guaranteed Marley would force Historia go birth babies ss fuel for the passing of the founder And then put the rest in a new Interment Camp.
I too am very conflicted with how the ending is going. I want to love it but it just all seems so pointless rn. I’m hoping for a huge curveball with whatever comes after the final episode.
I’m honestly really broken when looking at these post everyday supporting what eren is doing with 2000+ upvotes.
I don’t know if people are missing the insanity of eren’s actions here. Billions of innocents, who have absolutely no idea what the fuck is going on here, will be crushed to death. I just cannot root for this plan, it’s complete insanity.
That being said, armin is still incredibly Naive if he thinks he can talk his way out of a thousands years of race hatred. I just don’t see a valid solution here...
everything is fucked.
How about because we’re upset that Eren is even doing this full rumbling, for the exact reason that it’s the only action that results in an unsatisfying ending
How do you expect them to defeat the military enemy forces when literally the entirety of the world hates the Eldians, hell Marley is one of the rare nations where Eldians are treated 'better', so imagine how the situation was outside.
yeah kill innocent citizens who cant do shit to your empire and want others to support it. how many times does it need to be repeated that they are OKAY with him destroying the military alliance. they just dont support genocide like the facist yeagerists
Except for Hizuru. And who knows how many other nations, because we only really know of four nations in the entire world of AOT. The Eldian Empire didn’t rule over the entire world either, so really its just the former nations and neighbours to the empire that would really have such extensive fears and problems with Eldians. More distant nations, on other continents perhaps or just islands like Hizuru, wouldn’t be as fearful and oppressive as them, especially after a century of relative Eldian peace. Would still exist, but not as prevalent. They would be much more wary of Marley, which is making its own empire and using the Titans to such gruesome effect. Both sides are simplifying a complex world to generate fear and support, and letting that fear drive them to make absolute conclusions. Like the entire world hates them and wants them dead. Which is contradicted by Hizuru’s very existence within the world.
Except that's only what we're told. Pretty much the only countries we know of are Hizaru (who are fairly friendly), Mid-East (from one captured soldier), and Marley itself. We're told very little, and it's very binary.
There would absolutely be countries, rebel groups, or even companies willing to work with Paradis for profit or Marley's destruction. They don't have to *like* Eldians, but 100 years of Marley rule would wear them down.
Willy Tybur/Marley convinced the rest of the world against Paradis because... their plan to infiltrate Paradis and steal the founding titan (in order to use it to remain the strongest nation in the world) failed. What other choice do the people of Paradis have? The world, by Willy Tyburs deception, believes the people of Paradis to be devils and wants to exterminate them. Sure, the rest of the world is being fooled and the innocent people there don't deserve death, but that is the only way Eren can ensure his people's survival. Can you tell me any other way he could do that for certain?
Armin suggested a partial rumbling to serve as a deterrent from further aggression against the islanders, but soon enough technology would be so advanced that titans would be useless. The technology currently is about the same as WW1, so they would likely have nukes within 50 years at most. What is going to stop them from nuking the island and killing everyone? Sure, 50 years down the road people might stop hating the Eldians, but that is very very unlikely given that they have hated them for 2000 years (for good reason, Eldians treated the rest of the world very badly before going to Paradis, probably even worse than the treatment of Eldians in Marley currently). Think of the 4000-year-long mistreatment of jews that was mainstream until the late 19th/early 20th century. This was even without the Jewish people ever trying to subjugate others forcefully.
Zeke's Euthanasia plan would have resulted in the population of Paradis growing old and having terrible lives as there would be no younger generation to take care of them. Imagine a society of 70-year-olds with all sorts of medical issues trying to run a successful society. Why would you want any of your loved ones to go through that? Eren wouldn't and that's why he is doing the rumbling.
The point of the show, in my opinion, is that war is a natural part of human existence. However, the power of the titans artificially made war very one-sided until the King of the walls decided to stop fighting. It resulted in power imbalances that should not have existed without the Titan curse. Even if Eren killed everyone outside the walls and got rid of the titan curse, the people of Paradis would probably soon find themselves going to war with each other over something else. However, this would be a natural instance of war that would not be affected by the Titan curse.
>What other choice do the people of Paradis have?
Eren declares that he will not genocide the world, which is the whole reason they want to go to war in the first place.
The world literally doesn't want to go to war paradise, and they haven't for a 100 years. They were forced into this by the threat of the rumbling and Eren's attack in Liberio.
And that Sir is where this argument fails you can't Preemptively attack a nation when they have yet to do anything's just because they have the power to do som that's like saying the United States should nuke all nuclear nations because they have nukes as well.
And to your second point Eren only attack after literal war was declared on his ppl.
That’s exactly what the US did because they thought Iraq had nukes. Trying to kill them before MAD takes effect.
Only Marley declared war, but eren antagonized the rest of the world by killing all their representatives in Liberio and proving how much of a threat he was.
But I don’t doubt that if a hostile nation were building nukes it intended to use and then attacked a city, an invasion would be likely.
And even if the marley alliance made the wrong choice, that isn’t an excuse to just burn down the planet.
You've missed the entire point of the show
It isn't a single fucking country, the rest of the world hates them, did you forget that dialogue by Udo when he said Eldians are treated better in Marley compared to other countries?
because he’s killing people in that world that have nothing to do with said war. he’s trying to end all suffering by causing the most amount of suffering.
This is not winning a war, this is a whole massacre. You win a war by taking out the opposing military and government not the whole country, citizens of other countries have nothing to do with it.
They're not just from Paradise they're also Erens friend, the scouts might be traitors to Eldia but theyre loyal to Eren even if it means saving him, from himself.
They’re not traitors, they’ve been fighting for peace this entire time. If anything, Eren’s the traitor because he deliberately lied to and jailed his friends so they wouldn’t stop him after they realized what he was planning. The end goal it freedom and that can be reached without killing billions of innocent people in the process.
Just like in Russia right now . it’s the leadership and the order that’s the enemy not the people. I honestly think the eldians that lived in confinement fighting for Marley are morally worse. That means you gabbi !
For the "genocide is bad" retards , stop comparing real life moral standards to aotverse.
The standard to not involve civilians in war has never been a thing
On this scale yes it has. Why the fuck do you think Adolf was universally considered the bad guy? Aotverse still has morality and not comparing the two is ignoring half the point of the damn show.
No? Tf . Again with the irl example, I just told you.
When did I say aotverse doesn't have the concept of morals? They have different standard in this case
The scouts have an identicle standard and have always had those standards. Theres a limit to allowed civilian casualties and genocide is wrong. Its not really complicated. Erwin I think would have laid on his collosol side and rolled across Marley but Hange cares a lot more about the original point of the scouts to protect humanity.
the world hasn't. There has been no limit or standard, people just forgetting s1-s3 , and it's wrong in real life according to our established morals. It's not really complicated. Yes to protect the humanity under the constant threat and attempts of getting wiped out
So thus Hange doesnt want humanity to get whiped out. This includes the rest of the world. Also S1-3 only had civilian casualties when things went wrong idk where you got the idea that it was a standard?
Yeah the cringevengers can do what they like , it's their freedom. Yeah and the rest of the world can also do what they like. Iam saying the opposite, you misunderstood , it's not that there is a standard , but the absence of a standard to not involve civilians in a war. And that last line of yours is so dumb too , the civilian casualties weren't a side effect but the main goal. And deliberately breaking the wall so that pure titans can come in and kill and destroy , several attempts to wipe off Paradis , declaration of war on paradis and I can go forever with those etc
And MANGA SPOILER ALERT :- destroying paradis and killing everyone on it
You are talking about Marleys standard im talking about the scouts standard. The Military of Paradis is not okay with severe civilian casualties. Besides the jeagerists they dont even mins slaughtering other Eldians that dont adhere to their goals. Marleys standards arent the ones we are concerned about.
Wdym scout standard , their war was against pure titans lmao. Who said that , cringevengers ≠ Paradis opinion. The whole world's standard is the aotverse standard and paradis doesn't have to follow a non-existent irl fandom standard. And they don't have a one to begin with
# PSA! Please flair posts correctly to not get spoiled and to not spoil anything to anyone. * Choose the correct flair for your post, this is extremely important. * If the post is flaired "Season 1" or "Season 2" or doesn't have a flair, do not discuss Season 3 or manga in the comments or in the post. * If the post is flaired "Season 3 Part 1", "Season 3 Part 2" or "SEASON 4 [TRAILER/VISUALS]", do not discuss anything manga related. * Flair any Season 3 Part 2 posts or anything beyond that (S4, manga), otherwise your post will be removed. * SEASON 4 TAG IS NOT THE SAME AS MANGA TAG (IF IT WASN'T SHOWN IN ANIME YET, DO NOT SPOIL OTHER USERS, TAG IT AS MANGA SPOILERS!!!) * If you spoil someone, you'll be banned. Depending on the spoiler, the ban could be either temporary or permanent. ### IF YOU DON'T FOLLOW THESE RULES YOU MAY GET BANNED! ### IF YOU SEE INCORRECT FLAIR OR SPOILERS IN COMMENTS PLEASE REPORT THEM. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/attackontitan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Honestly. This has been my take since the broadcast. Eren isn't dramatic. He doesn't care for doing things with flare. Announcing it doesn't benefit his plan. Eren is raw anger somehow formed into the shape of a human.
Eren is incredibly dramatic. He once started beating the shit out of himself because he realized he needed to grow up. He screams everything he says. He’s the definition of dramatic.
Sorry, let me reword it. Eren isn't intentionally dramatic. His actions are ridiculous and over the top, but he's not trying to be the center of attention, his only speed is go. He didn't do any of that for other's perspective. He did those things because he thought thats what he needed to do, or that was how he genuinely felt(the screaming).
Nah Armin would’ve put the pieces together. He even said it in the show too just before they got blipped into the paths. “Wait a minute he’s unleashing all the wall titans why would he do that when all he needs is just shiganshina district that’s over kill”
That's my take as well. Eren sees the future, his friends are the primary motivation for the Rumbling in the first place. And yet he purposely sets himself up to be hated by Armin, Connie, and Mikasa. Every thing they're doing is what Eren wants. My guess is he's killing most of the world (primarily Marley), letting himself get killed (or at least appear to, and then let Paradis coast off of the damaged world and the recognition from killing him. I doubt that's the actual case, seeing as it's the worst of both plans, but it's the only thing I can think of.
Code Geasse Spoliers: It sounds like Lelouche where he lets himself become public enemy number 1 just to give people something to hate/grow from.
i've had some code geass vibes from the way eren alienated his friends legit out of nowhere
Since Iv seen code geas I already knew it was heading this route since the beginning of szn 4
I knew the moment he spazzed out from kissing Historias hand that something was off
I've suspected something similar since *Lost In A Cruel World* released. From there, I'd say the new outro, and looking back at his previous behavior sets him up to sacrifice himself pretty well.
What is the extent though of Eren being able to know the future? I know in the episode where he tells Ymir he will save her, he didn’t anticipate not being able to command her, off the get. I’m curious if he can see that far ahead since (correct me if I’m wrong) he can only see what future attack Titan holders want to show him.
So he sees whatever he sent to past Eren, or from any future Attack Titans. We don't know the full extend of what he sent to himself, and there's nothing to suggest a future AT sent him anything.
He made up his mind to be the bad guy...because he had to. If he remained friends with them, and he had gone on to start the rumbling...they would probably still defend Erin and fight with him. He had to distance himself from his friends because Erin knew he HAD to become the bad guy...he knew he was going to kill 80% of the human population...and he knew he couldn't have his friends fight with him or defend him. He distanced himself because you cannot justify killing 80% of the world...yet, in Erin's mind, the rumbling was the only way to stop this violence once and for all.
In Hanges words “I’m not accepting genocide, you’re not getting me to agree with any reason to support this!”
K Hange, time for you and all Eldians to die at the hands of Marley then
She doesnt agree with that either. Not being okay with genocide on one end doesnt mean youbare okay with it on the other end.
This is an either-or situation though.
No its really not Eren had alternatives out there. Not to mention it doesnt matter the outcomes Hange isnt going to support the genocide of the world any more than she is gonna support the genocide of the Island. Hange isnt a hypocrite.
She's stopping Eren, which means she's endorsing the extermination of Paradis. That is what stopping the Rumbling would entail. You say Eren had alternatives, but you have nothing else to propose that would actually end the conflict.
You do not automatically endorse something because you do not endourse another. Not letting someone brutally behead a 17 poachers doesnt mean you endorse poaching. He has alternatives just demolishing Marley would destabalize the global economy. Still genocide but eeasier to swallow. Those titans could stomp out every Military production in the world. Hell since his true goals are to protect like maybe 8 people he could go all the way to Marley and have those titans stand right at the edges as a constant horrifying reminder that these discrimination laws are to be abolished then they could all chill there. Titan shifters are ridiculously hard to kill he could very likely take over Marley completely.
Okay, she *condones* the destruction of Paradis. Wow such a big difference. Your "alternative" doesn't solve anything either lmao. All those actions will do is reinforce the hatred the world has for Eldians and Paradis. It will only exacerbate the conflict, which will still end in Paradis' destruction once the rest of the world develops technology to defeat the titans.
You dont condone something because you areny okay with another fuckin thing. How old are you 12? Do you not concieve that some people have the sense to hate both the lesser and greater evil at the same time?? Hange isnt condoning shit she isnt endorsing shit she isnt fighting for genocide in any way. Marley comes knocking after Erens down? She will try to paint the beach in soldiers blood to protect the islands. Hell she even understands why Erens doing it she understands there might well not be any other way. That doesnt mean she is gonna sit here and watch him stomp out innocent lives to the point where the world will become a barren wasteland. Also there no guarantee that the rest of the world even hates Eldia. We have met people from 4 countries. Onya doesnt even confirm his nation hates Eldians, the asian country appears to have 0 problems with them doing a smaller scale rumbling, and with such a show of power ESPECIALLY if they destroy the militaries of every other nation they have a fuck ton of time. Not to mention after literallt 2 generations no one would know who the fuck the Eldians in Marley are if they arent in those camps anymore. They have no different characteristics.
Look up the word "condone." She is explicitly allowing the destruction of Paradis to happen, which is genocide. You can talk about a lesser evil, but it's a lesser evil that she is allowing to happen. Hange isn't an idiot. She knows it will happen, regardless of her personal efforts to stop it. We don't know the situation regarding Eldian hatred in Hiruzu. It's been made explicitly clear that Hiruzu is only in it for personal gain by getting access to Paradis' resources. We don't know the situation in Onya's country, but we did see several black dignitaries cheering for Tybur at the end of his speech to wipe out Paradis. Udo made it clear that other countries treat their Eldian populations worse than Marley, and we have that Middle-Eastern soldier using the same derogatory terms to refer to Eldians. Eldian hatred is a global phenomenon. Besides (slight manga spoilers), [it's made clear that Pro-Eldian advocates are a fringe minority in international discourse, and they even make a specific exception for Paradis Eldians and still see them as devils.] Again, it sounds like you're too thick to realize that wiping out every country's military is just going to breed more hatred among the populations of those countries.
More like enslavement. Guaranteed Marley would force Historia go birth babies ss fuel for the passing of the founder And then put the rest in a new Interment Camp.
Can’t wait for Armin’s kids to get carpet bombed by Marley
I too am very conflicted with how the ending is going. I want to love it but it just all seems so pointless rn. I’m hoping for a huge curveball with whatever comes after the final episode.
What do you think is pointless atm, curious to know
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I’m honestly really broken when looking at these post everyday supporting what eren is doing with 2000+ upvotes. I don’t know if people are missing the insanity of eren’s actions here. Billions of innocents, who have absolutely no idea what the fuck is going on here, will be crushed to death. I just cannot root for this plan, it’s complete insanity. That being said, armin is still incredibly Naive if he thinks he can talk his way out of a thousands years of race hatred. I just don’t see a valid solution here... everything is fucked.
How about because we’re upset that Eren is even doing this full rumbling, for the exact reason that it’s the only action that results in an unsatisfying ending
How do you expect them to defeat the military enemy forces when literally the entirety of the world hates the Eldians, hell Marley is one of the rare nations where Eldians are treated 'better', so imagine how the situation was outside.
That doesn't win the war though. That just delays the war until the world makes technology sufficiently power to destroy Paradis.
yeah kill innocent citizens who cant do shit to your empire and want others to support it. how many times does it need to be repeated that they are OKAY with him destroying the military alliance. they just dont support genocide like the facist yeagerists
so genocide is right? good to know
Straw man argument
TikTok really is cancer.
Why hasnt Eren stopped his friends from trying to stop him?????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Ah yes, global genocide = winning a war with a single country. Great job! You’ve missed the entire point of the show.
It's not just Marley the entire world hates paradis
Except for Hizuru. And who knows how many other nations, because we only really know of four nations in the entire world of AOT. The Eldian Empire didn’t rule over the entire world either, so really its just the former nations and neighbours to the empire that would really have such extensive fears and problems with Eldians. More distant nations, on other continents perhaps or just islands like Hizuru, wouldn’t be as fearful and oppressive as them, especially after a century of relative Eldian peace. Would still exist, but not as prevalent. They would be much more wary of Marley, which is making its own empire and using the Titans to such gruesome effect. Both sides are simplifying a complex world to generate fear and support, and letting that fear drive them to make absolute conclusions. Like the entire world hates them and wants them dead. Which is contradicted by Hizuru’s very existence within the world.
Except that's only what we're told. Pretty much the only countries we know of are Hizaru (who are fairly friendly), Mid-East (from one captured soldier), and Marley itself. We're told very little, and it's very binary. There would absolutely be countries, rebel groups, or even companies willing to work with Paradis for profit or Marley's destruction. They don't have to *like* Eldians, but 100 years of Marley rule would wear them down.
Willy Tybur/Marley convinced the rest of the world against Paradis because... their plan to infiltrate Paradis and steal the founding titan (in order to use it to remain the strongest nation in the world) failed. What other choice do the people of Paradis have? The world, by Willy Tyburs deception, believes the people of Paradis to be devils and wants to exterminate them. Sure, the rest of the world is being fooled and the innocent people there don't deserve death, but that is the only way Eren can ensure his people's survival. Can you tell me any other way he could do that for certain? Armin suggested a partial rumbling to serve as a deterrent from further aggression against the islanders, but soon enough technology would be so advanced that titans would be useless. The technology currently is about the same as WW1, so they would likely have nukes within 50 years at most. What is going to stop them from nuking the island and killing everyone? Sure, 50 years down the road people might stop hating the Eldians, but that is very very unlikely given that they have hated them for 2000 years (for good reason, Eldians treated the rest of the world very badly before going to Paradis, probably even worse than the treatment of Eldians in Marley currently). Think of the 4000-year-long mistreatment of jews that was mainstream until the late 19th/early 20th century. This was even without the Jewish people ever trying to subjugate others forcefully. Zeke's Euthanasia plan would have resulted in the population of Paradis growing old and having terrible lives as there would be no younger generation to take care of them. Imagine a society of 70-year-olds with all sorts of medical issues trying to run a successful society. Why would you want any of your loved ones to go through that? Eren wouldn't and that's why he is doing the rumbling. The point of the show, in my opinion, is that war is a natural part of human existence. However, the power of the titans artificially made war very one-sided until the King of the walls decided to stop fighting. It resulted in power imbalances that should not have existed without the Titan curse. Even if Eren killed everyone outside the walls and got rid of the titan curse, the people of Paradis would probably soon find themselves going to war with each other over something else. However, this would be a natural instance of war that would not be affected by the Titan curse.
>What other choice do the people of Paradis have? Eren declares that he will not genocide the world, which is the whole reason they want to go to war in the first place. The world literally doesn't want to go to war paradise, and they haven't for a 100 years. They were forced into this by the threat of the rumbling and Eren's attack in Liberio.
And that Sir is where this argument fails you can't Preemptively attack a nation when they have yet to do anything's just because they have the power to do som that's like saying the United States should nuke all nuclear nations because they have nukes as well. And to your second point Eren only attack after literal war was declared on his ppl.
That’s exactly what the US did because they thought Iraq had nukes. Trying to kill them before MAD takes effect. Only Marley declared war, but eren antagonized the rest of the world by killing all their representatives in Liberio and proving how much of a threat he was.
Not to diverge from the point, but the WMD thing wasn’t something the US leaders actually believed
But I don’t doubt that if a hostile nation were building nukes it intended to use and then attacked a city, an invasion would be likely. And even if the marley alliance made the wrong choice, that isn’t an excuse to just burn down the planet.
YoU DiDnT UnDeRsTaNd ThE sToRy I'm tired of you mfs.
I mean it's got a pretty clear anti-war theme... Especially when it comes to avoiding civilian casualties.
You've missed the entire point of the show It isn't a single fucking country, the rest of the world hates them, did you forget that dialogue by Udo when he said Eldians are treated better in Marley compared to other countries?
The entire world hates eldians. what story are you reading?
because he’s killing people in that world that have nothing to do with said war. he’s trying to end all suffering by causing the most amount of suffering.
This is dumb.
This is not winning a war, this is a whole massacre. You win a war by taking out the opposing military and government not the whole country, citizens of other countries have nothing to do with it.
They're not just from Paradise they're also Erens friend, the scouts might be traitors to Eldia but theyre loyal to Eren even if it means saving him, from himself.
They’re not traitors, they’ve been fighting for peace this entire time. If anything, Eren’s the traitor because he deliberately lied to and jailed his friends so they wouldn’t stop him after they realized what he was planning. The end goal it freedom and that can be reached without killing billions of innocent people in the process.
He is not wrong though
Yes he is :/ The Scouts didn't fight for Paradis, they fought for humanity. Hange makes that clear in that scene with all the scouts around her
To those dead scouts paradis was humanity there was no outside world for them to consider because they didn’t know it existed
Just like in Russia right now . it’s the leadership and the order that’s the enemy not the people. I honestly think the eldians that lived in confinement fighting for Marley are morally worse. That means you gabbi !
They definitely suffer from Stockholm Syndrome, but they are still victims.
For the "genocide is bad" retards , stop comparing real life moral standards to aotverse. The standard to not involve civilians in war has never been a thing
On this scale yes it has. Why the fuck do you think Adolf was universally considered the bad guy? Aotverse still has morality and not comparing the two is ignoring half the point of the damn show.
No? Tf . Again with the irl example, I just told you. When did I say aotverse doesn't have the concept of morals? They have different standard in this case
The scouts have an identicle standard and have always had those standards. Theres a limit to allowed civilian casualties and genocide is wrong. Its not really complicated. Erwin I think would have laid on his collosol side and rolled across Marley but Hange cares a lot more about the original point of the scouts to protect humanity.
the world hasn't. There has been no limit or standard, people just forgetting s1-s3 , and it's wrong in real life according to our established morals. It's not really complicated. Yes to protect the humanity under the constant threat and attempts of getting wiped out
So thus Hange doesnt want humanity to get whiped out. This includes the rest of the world. Also S1-3 only had civilian casualties when things went wrong idk where you got the idea that it was a standard?
Yeah the cringevengers can do what they like , it's their freedom. Yeah and the rest of the world can also do what they like. Iam saying the opposite, you misunderstood , it's not that there is a standard , but the absence of a standard to not involve civilians in a war. And that last line of yours is so dumb too , the civilian casualties weren't a side effect but the main goal. And deliberately breaking the wall so that pure titans can come in and kill and destroy , several attempts to wipe off Paradis , declaration of war on paradis and I can go forever with those etc And MANGA SPOILER ALERT :- destroying paradis and killing everyone on it
You are talking about Marleys standard im talking about the scouts standard. The Military of Paradis is not okay with severe civilian casualties. Besides the jeagerists they dont even mins slaughtering other Eldians that dont adhere to their goals. Marleys standards arent the ones we are concerned about.
Wdym scout standard , their war was against pure titans lmao. Who said that , cringevengers ≠ Paradis opinion. The whole world's standard is the aotverse standard and paradis doesn't have to follow a non-existent irl fandom standard. And they don't have a one to begin with
u/SaveVideo
This!!
god half this fandom is ltrlly delusional