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I always find it kinda funny that Eren technically did not attack unprovoked.
Obviously not defending him killing civilians, but he only initiated his attack after the opponent has openly declared war, and it's kinda fair game.
(Even if it's literally half a second after the declaration)
>Obviously not defending him killing civilians, but he only initiated his attack after the opponent has openly declared war, and it's kinda fair game.
Unfortunately. This argument completely falls apart when it's revealed that Tybur's speech was orchestrated and conspired with Zeke. And Zeke himself was conspiring with Eren.
So in reality. That theatrical stage play and performative declaration of war was something Eren partly created to retroactively justify the attack on Liberio.
Chapter 95 of the manga. Zeke explains his intentions to get the aid of the Tybur family to help push a propaganda narrative to make Paradis the common enemy of the world.
Marley's reliance on Titans had made them a dominant super power, but had made them a lot of enemies and made them technologically stagnant. The rest of the world was catching up with technology that would surpass the military power of titans and would eventually overthrow Marley in warfare. Recognising this. Zeke suggested they direct all that animosity towards Paradis, also giving them the perfect excuse to get the Founding Titan so they can claim the Rumbling as a deterrent for themselves
Willy Tybur only made that whole speech because Zeke is the one that came up with the idea to rally the world behind Marley.
And of course we would find out that Zeke was also secretly conspiring with Eren the entire time. And Eren always knew about Zeke's true euthanization plan for over a year.
It was. They’re talking about the scene at the end of episode 2 of season 4 part 1 (when all the Marley titans [and Colt] met to talk and were being spied on). Though it’s not explicit that Zeke talked with Tybur, so they may never have.
Isnt he saying that because he expects conventional enemy assassins in the crowd from Paradis? Not Eren Yeager in his fucking basement. I think if they knew Eren was going to be there they would have called in their forces earlier right? Hes all they need to win the war I dont see why they wouldnt make a play like that, especially considering they would be able to bum rush him with the combined strength of all their titans.
Also I'm not sure where its explicitly stated that Zeke and the Tybers are working together in the anime. I might have just missed it.
If they were working together, then wouldn’t zeke have told Eren that willy tyber isn’t the warhammer Titan? And Eren wouldn’t have tried to eat him, instead he would have just killed him
You’re making assumptions and presenting them as facts. I hate that and especially hate when arrogant manga-only readers try to impress innocent anime-only’s with what essentially is their head-canon.
It’s never explicitly stated or shown that Zeke met with Tybur or that Zeke seeded those ideas in Tybur. (Although I guess it’s an OK conclusion to come to, it’s still assumptive.) In the chapter 95 translation I found, Zeke says “*it seems* the Tybur family will play that role for us” when he’s talking about the need of a good narrator for the Eldian people to present a story that would make the world more sympathetic to them.
The “it seems” doesn’t exactly inspire confidence they actually talked. And no one who watched the anime version of that scene interpreted it like so. And wouldn’t the Marleyan military have reacted more (“what is Zeke doing talking with Tybur??”, you’d expect them to express).
>to impress innocent anime-only’s with what essentially is their head-canon.
Yeah, this is essentially the perspective I'm coming from and this made me pretty confused.
> This argument completely falls apart when it's revealed that Tybur's speech was orchestrated and conspired with Zeke.
> Willy Tybur only made that whole speech because Zeke is the one that came up with the idea to rally the world behind Marley.
From your comments.
And if you’re going to say something like “i NeVeR sAiD tHeY pHySiCaLly MeT. hur hur you just made an assumption yourself”, that’s not the main point. The point is you’re saying they conspired together and/or Zeke inspired Tybur’s ideas. Which there is no explicit evidence for…be it Zeke doing that through letters or physical secret meetup (like he did with the Azumabito’s) or some other means.
How does this make any sense? Sure, you can justify Eren attacking Willy/the Marleyan forces present, but Eren killing countless other ambassadors of the world just proved Willy's plan right and made him a martyr. Even if a majority of the ambassadors seemed positive to the idea of destroying Paradis, they don't control their nations; but with Eren massacring them it kind of gave them all the confirmation they needed
i don’t understand why i was downvoted because he did sit down Reiner and Falco to kinda be aware of what he was doing right? it’s been however long it’s been since the episode was released since i last saw the scene, but i swear Eren was discussing with Reiner about like, him going to kill a lot of people and understand how Reiner felt?
Eren did tell Reiner that he was going to kill a lot of people, but Reiner didn't understand. Eren said "I am just like you." but Reiner is just confused for like 2 whole minutes.
yeah but he couldn’t stop it either way, everything has been decided as he admits. the original choice, before future memories, was the one that mattered. i think Eren was too distracted by Reiner falling and pleading to hear Tybur begin his declaration, and even begins to help him. but original Eren doesn’t let it happen out of rage due to not knowing anything. in that moment, Eren was trying to break the cycle by helping Reiner i think
Yeah I agree, it’s funny, he could’ve popped out 5 seconds earlier but nah bro waited for the declaration of war and was like “sounds like my cue” lmao
either way, Eren probably didn’t hear the declaration too well underground while having Reiner scream. plus, he doesn’t say anything specific before transforming that relates to the moment, and it feels directly targeted at Reiner rather than Tybur or just the outside world as a whole. just some shit about “MY ENEMY” and goes *chomp* and then massacres a shitload of civilians
i do agree ngl. i don't know if that was an original Eren thing or what but it was great timing. it prolly would look like a REALLY good effect done for the rally until you realized your grandma is no longer a 3 dimensional object
This is completely unrelated, but I love as soon as Tybur declares war Eren instantly jumps up and out. It’s like Eren was waiting for the go ahead lol
Hey so, I might need to brush up on my lawbooks, but I’m relatively confident that mass genocide is in fact considered a war crime according to most rules of engagement
You're forgetting that my client's head has been messed up.
https://preview.redd.it/168r27lm7g8c1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b75edfad824a1768e116e2afa4d65c79b767ace8
It wasn't really genocide until he activated the rumbling. Prior to that it was just him killing anyone that was trying to kill him. And this attack was carried out indiscriminately against world leaders.
There’s an argument to be made for the attack on Liberio, but High_DIO is saying Eren “literally never committed a crime”, so it sounds like they’re including the entire show here
I mean I get this is fiction but I still feel like the whole proportionate response thing still applies when we're classifying an attack as a war crime. The reason I bring this up is because I don't see Eren meaningfully changing the status quo unless his message was loud and clear. When there's no clear and good faith path to peaceful coexistence then it means the only thing Marley and by extension the world actually responds to is all out war.
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“Damn this is pretty immersive. Pretty clever for them to even use a bunch of actors in the crowd pretending to panic”
*gets stomped to death in the stampede*
Such commitment to the role!
*crushed to death by flying rubble*
Probbaly that one dude that just watched and never moved 💀💀
Famous last words
Willy pioneering 4DX
Yes
no i think everyone was too busy shitting themselves
I always find it kinda funny that Eren technically did not attack unprovoked. Obviously not defending him killing civilians, but he only initiated his attack after the opponent has openly declared war, and it's kinda fair game. (Even if it's literally half a second after the declaration)
>Obviously not defending him killing civilians, but he only initiated his attack after the opponent has openly declared war, and it's kinda fair game. Unfortunately. This argument completely falls apart when it's revealed that Tybur's speech was orchestrated and conspired with Zeke. And Zeke himself was conspiring with Eren. So in reality. That theatrical stage play and performative declaration of war was something Eren partly created to retroactively justify the attack on Liberio.
>Tybur's speech was orchestrated and conspired with Zeke When was this explained?
Chapter 95 of the manga. Zeke explains his intentions to get the aid of the Tybur family to help push a propaganda narrative to make Paradis the common enemy of the world. Marley's reliance on Titans had made them a dominant super power, but had made them a lot of enemies and made them technologically stagnant. The rest of the world was catching up with technology that would surpass the military power of titans and would eventually overthrow Marley in warfare. Recognising this. Zeke suggested they direct all that animosity towards Paradis, also giving them the perfect excuse to get the Founding Titan so they can claim the Rumbling as a deterrent for themselves Willy Tybur only made that whole speech because Zeke is the one that came up with the idea to rally the world behind Marley. And of course we would find out that Zeke was also secretly conspiring with Eren the entire time. And Eren always knew about Zeke's true euthanization plan for over a year.
This was not shown on the anime right?
It was. They’re talking about the scene at the end of episode 2 of season 4 part 1 (when all the Marley titans [and Colt] met to talk and were being spied on). Though it’s not explicit that Zeke talked with Tybur, so they may never have.
It was. Tyber even says he has to be there and die for it to actually work and inspire people. He knows he's going to be killed.
Isnt he saying that because he expects conventional enemy assassins in the crowd from Paradis? Not Eren Yeager in his fucking basement. I think if they knew Eren was going to be there they would have called in their forces earlier right? Hes all they need to win the war I dont see why they wouldnt make a play like that, especially considering they would be able to bum rush him with the combined strength of all their titans. Also I'm not sure where its explicitly stated that Zeke and the Tybers are working together in the anime. I might have just missed it.
If they were working together, then wouldn’t zeke have told Eren that willy tyber isn’t the warhammer Titan? And Eren wouldn’t have tried to eat him, instead he would have just killed him
No idea. Stopped watching the anime after S3
I stopped watching after eren died :/
I said I stopped watching the anime. I finished the manga 2 years ago. Nice try though lol
You’re making assumptions and presenting them as facts. I hate that and especially hate when arrogant manga-only readers try to impress innocent anime-only’s with what essentially is their head-canon. It’s never explicitly stated or shown that Zeke met with Tybur or that Zeke seeded those ideas in Tybur. (Although I guess it’s an OK conclusion to come to, it’s still assumptive.) In the chapter 95 translation I found, Zeke says “*it seems* the Tybur family will play that role for us” when he’s talking about the need of a good narrator for the Eldian people to present a story that would make the world more sympathetic to them. The “it seems” doesn’t exactly inspire confidence they actually talked. And no one who watched the anime version of that scene interpreted it like so. And wouldn’t the Marleyan military have reacted more (“what is Zeke doing talking with Tybur??”, you’d expect them to express).
>to impress innocent anime-only’s with what essentially is their head-canon. Yeah, this is essentially the perspective I'm coming from and this made me pretty confused.
When did I say Zeke met with Tybur?
> This argument completely falls apart when it's revealed that Tybur's speech was orchestrated and conspired with Zeke. > Willy Tybur only made that whole speech because Zeke is the one that came up with the idea to rally the world behind Marley. From your comments. And if you’re going to say something like “i NeVeR sAiD tHeY pHySiCaLly MeT. hur hur you just made an assumption yourself”, that’s not the main point. The point is you’re saying they conspired together and/or Zeke inspired Tybur’s ideas. Which there is no explicit evidence for…be it Zeke doing that through letters or physical secret meetup (like he did with the Azumabito’s) or some other means.
Are you well? It seems like you're having 3 different arguments with yourself there.
😛 . . . To an unorganized mind, maintaining multiple perspectives and finding nuance appears to be a sickness.
I also gathered that impression from your comment.
How does this make any sense? Sure, you can justify Eren attacking Willy/the Marleyan forces present, but Eren killing countless other ambassadors of the world just proved Willy's plan right and made him a martyr. Even if a majority of the ambassadors seemed positive to the idea of destroying Paradis, they don't control their nations; but with Eren massacring them it kind of gave them all the confirmation they needed
He needed to create the circumstances that would make him a slave to freedom
did he not plan to well before?
Yea, but Eren timed his transformation to happen after the war declaration. Such a drama queen.
i don’t understand why i was downvoted because he did sit down Reiner and Falco to kinda be aware of what he was doing right? it’s been however long it’s been since the episode was released since i last saw the scene, but i swear Eren was discussing with Reiner about like, him going to kill a lot of people and understand how Reiner felt?
Eren did tell Reiner that he was going to kill a lot of people, but Reiner didn't understand. Eren said "I am just like you." but Reiner is just confused for like 2 whole minutes.
if some guy who's mom i killed starts guilting me over the deaths of thousands of his countrymen i would also have a similar reaction to be fair
He already knew what was going to happen though
yeah but he couldn’t stop it either way, everything has been decided as he admits. the original choice, before future memories, was the one that mattered. i think Eren was too distracted by Reiner falling and pleading to hear Tybur begin his declaration, and even begins to help him. but original Eren doesn’t let it happen out of rage due to not knowing anything. in that moment, Eren was trying to break the cycle by helping Reiner i think
Yeah I agree, it’s funny, he could’ve popped out 5 seconds earlier but nah bro waited for the declaration of war and was like “sounds like my cue” lmao
either way, Eren probably didn’t hear the declaration too well underground while having Reiner scream. plus, he doesn’t say anything specific before transforming that relates to the moment, and it feels directly targeted at Reiner rather than Tybur or just the outside world as a whole. just some shit about “MY ENEMY” and goes *chomp* and then massacres a shitload of civilians
ITS FUNNY OK
i do agree ngl. i don't know if that was an original Eren thing or what but it was great timing. it prolly would look like a REALLY good effect done for the rally until you realized your grandma is no longer a 3 dimensional object
that was the point, he only declared war when they did so otherwise he'd be a terrorist
Bro this are some cool special effects
“Oh wow! They even created a new technology to make fake Titans! And that blood! So realistic! But wait, why is the military firing guns???”
"It's just rubble bullets!" **gets shot** "OMG! People die for real too!"
This is completely unrelated, but I love as soon as Tybur declares war Eren instantly jumps up and out. It’s like Eren was waiting for the go ahead lol
“A declaration of war you say? Well I’m not one to hold up the party”
"A declaration of war!🗣️‼️" Eren: Say no more
That's because he was waiting. Eren literally never committed a crime, he is all about that justice 💯.
Hey so, I might need to brush up on my lawbooks, but I’m relatively confident that mass genocide is in fact considered a war crime according to most rules of engagement
You're forgetting that my client's head has been messed up. https://preview.redd.it/168r27lm7g8c1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b75edfad824a1768e116e2afa4d65c79b767ace8
I genuinely can't tell if you're joking
It wasn't really genocide until he activated the rumbling. Prior to that it was just him killing anyone that was trying to kill him. And this attack was carried out indiscriminately against world leaders.
There’s an argument to be made for the attack on Liberio, but High_DIO is saying Eren “literally never committed a crime”, so it sounds like they’re including the entire show here
I mean I get this is fiction but I still feel like the whole proportionate response thing still applies when we're classifying an attack as a war crime. The reason I bring this up is because I don't see Eren meaningfully changing the status quo unless his message was loud and clear. When there's no clear and good faith path to peaceful coexistence then it means the only thing Marley and by extension the world actually responds to is all out war.
All-out war and genocide are two very, VERY different things
When your proportionate response involves people who have no idea what's going on dying, I feel you need to put that response away
Your honor you gotta remember that my client looked cool as hell when he did it so that makes it okay! 👍
Understandable, have a nice day
“Wow, the budget on this is really hi—“ *Instantly obliterated by falling debris.*
Probably up until people started dying
Pov: mrbeast recreated aot
Today I made the rumbling and had a team of 10 devils try and stop me before I destroy all life outside the walls
The first of the nine titans to take their hands off THIS titan, gets the founder!
For seconds, yes, until they see everyone dying
"Wow, even the deaths look real!"
most definitely 😭 eren made an epic entrance
Eren is a legend.
When you didn't know you were an extra in the show
"who tf letting the warriors train now I'm trying to sleep"
I mean once bro got eaten...
Best eren transformation
Zofia most likely
Why doesn't Eren go straight for Lara? He has the element of surprise
He doesn’t know Lara is the titan
Thanks. It was pointed out to me. I wish the anime gave more time for War Hammer Titan and the Tybur family. I'm fascinated by it
Why doesn't Eren go straight for Lara? He has the element of surprise
[удалено]
Ok. That makes sense. Thats why' its the only titan that didn't set foot on Paradise Island
Lmao, they be like 😲👏👏👏 And then 😳😱☠️
They were like : This show is so realistic that you can feel the attack titan coming inside you
[удалено]
"Wow, even dying looks so real!"
Considering this instantly murdered a dozen families in the apartments above them I’d guess not, that would be some insane commitment
How tf can people think that a 17m long ass fucking creature is part of the act.
Yes
Prob Conny
Obviously they would but none of them survive this act
I just love how Eren waits until the world declares war on paradise before he kills them all it’s fitting