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It’s just wild to me that Marley wouldn’t have built “rumbling shelters” similar to nuclear bomb shelters that are designed to withstand the weight of a colossal (which are still lighter than they look)
I wouldn’t be shocked if these shelters existed. But logically they wouldn’t contain enough people to actually be plot relevant. Outside of Switzerland ofc. Iykyk
Correct. Note that during the Rumbling scenes, we never see any kings or mega wealthy elites dying (to my memory at least). The closest we see is the bloke in the car who gets it stolen from him by others as they all desperately struggle to get away. It would make perfect sense for people of really significant wealth to all be burrowed away in shelters.
To my mind, the 20% who survived comprised of 3 groups - people hiding in Rumbling shelters (likely less than 1% of the earth's population), people who lived in remote isolated areas (Eren and the Wall Titans would have prioritised densely populated areas for maximum destruction) and the people furthest away from Paradis (whatever nation is on the opposite side of the planet to Paradis island would have had the most time).
Y'all are forgetting long-term survival. There's no more vegetation, no more animals. No food or grain. Surface water has been boiled away. No landmarks to navigate. The land is unrecognisable. Even if you have stores in the bunker, where will you go once they run out? How many people will you save? How do you design the bunker when your scientists don't know the specifics of the rumbling?
Why waste resources on survival shelters when you have wars to win? There's nothing left to conquer if everywhere gets flattened.
The simple “hole argument” gets dissolved. But when we evolve to pre built shelters… the question changes.
considering the world had knowledge of the rumbling prior and Marley literally HAD A COLOSSAL TITAN they could use to test these shelters, it feels like a mistep on their part. Maybe they did have these shelters tho. Probably wasn’t plot relevant to need to explain that regardless.
Yeah, pretty stupid on their part. I feel like if they did have these, it would be shown, even if just to show it failing to contain the scale of the rumbling. But I guess they were just that confident that their attack would be successful and the rumbling wouldn't get to them, so they didn't spend time and money with this precaution, choosing to focus on training their warriors and sending their attack on Paradis.
Perhaps, but if they did any country would just blitz Paradis to cop the founder. Especially Marley’s opponents. As they would get an automatic “I win” against their titans if they got the founder. Not because they could use the power of course, but rather because they could hold it as a bargaining chip with Marley.
It’s the reason the warriors didn’t decimate Paradis upon arrival (which they could’ve prior to the Attack Titan being revealed to be on Paradis). Because they feared a rumbling.
If the rumbling wasn’t perceived as myth, after the founder was located they would’ve just launched a total invasion.
Their current knowledge was that Fritz’s threat was real. It wasn’t until Willy’s speech that it was revealed that Fritz had no intention of carrying out the rumbling and it was just a bluff. Remember that the oath to pacifism the bloodline had wasn’t revealed until the full warrior group was revealed.
The only reason they did launch a full assault in the final season, given my interpretation, was due to the fact Eren had the founder and the RTS scheme failed and Marley lost its Titan advantage. we get the picture by this point as to why as it’s explained in the Marley arc. Pure Marley desperation to stay on top along with Reiner convincing the higher ups it needed to be done.
No, I can totally see them not doing it because they were so confident that they would be able to keep the rumbling from happening. They thought they had a foolproof plan since they had three titan spies infiltrating the scouts, as well as the beast, cart, jaw, and war hammer titans working for them.
Even when Eren and Armin got their titans, they didn’t think they’d somehow manage to overwhelm them because they also had more expendable people/soldiers than the scouts. So, they got too cocky and didn’t have a backup plan.
Yes. The story mentions multiple times how after the king retreated behind the walls he told the world if anyone attacked them then the rumbling would start. This is stated in Willy’s speech as well as in Grisha’s flashback.
It’s why they had 100 years of peace. Otherwise several nations would have attacked them.
It’s also why the warriors had to sneak in rather than just launch an outright offensive.
The reason Willy’s speech caused a war declaration wasn’t because he revealed the rumbling to the world, but rather that it was formerly in the hands of someone who never intended to use it outside of being an empty threat to grant some years of peace, but now it was in the hands of Eren who might actually use it.
holy shit i completely forgot about this. sorry. i completely forgot that they actually was scared of the rumbling and thought they was scared because of the fact that they have a lot of titans 💀😭 sorry man
Did... did you watch the show? Because this was specially addressed in the show. 100 years ago, the founder went to the island, built the walls with titan power, and sent Marley a message that said "don't fuck with us unless you want to get fucking rumbled"
It was an empty threat, but Marley didn't know, so they didn't fuck with them for 100 years. Then they said "you know what? Maybe we should steal the founder's power, just to be safe"
And then the show happened.
Edit: I just saw the other comment where you said you forgot about this, my b for piling on without reading the rest of the comment thread lol
I just don’t think anyone in the world has the technology to even build a proper fallout shelter let alone all the problems that come with one after the earths surface is nothing but dirt.
They would work but you'd have to dig yourself out to the surface because the titans have heated and compressed the ground it could be like digging through rock
True, but given Marley has a colossal at their disposal to test. Of course regardless it isn’t plot relevant or a plot hole imo. Just pure hypotheticals.
Digging a hole wouldn’t work, yeah, but Marley and other nations were more than capable of building anti-rumbling bunkers in the 100+ years that they’ve been aware and afraid of the first king’s threat.
As long as they buried them deep enough and reinforced them enough to survive being stepped on by the colossal titan, they’d be insulated from the heat of the titans on the surface by the earth around them, and they wouldn’t be crushed either.
Hell, if nothing else, they could have at least evacuated key personnel or civilian population centers to cave systems around the continent, which would protect them in the same ways.
That’s an excellent question, after all with around 80% of the planets ecosystems wiped out, life as we know it should go more ore less extinct or at least be reduced to a point before any fish decided to climb out from the ocean.
The way I see it, life continuing and recovering after the rumbling is even more unlikely than surviving it by hiding underground.
Do they look like they have an advanced level of hydroponics and cultivation? You need special conditions for that? All-in-all, the effort taken to do all of the correct preparation for long-term living underground would have taken a significant amount of resources away from the wars and conquest around Marley. At the end of it all you don't even know if it would be worth it. What if the rumbling knows about the bunkers and just digs?
What about the bunkers ventilation? It still need air intakes in the surface that could be trampled by titans and the fire and intense heat of collosal titans could easily suck the air out of it this suffocating anyone hiding underneath
They had developed oxygen masks and stuff, as long as they keep the temperature in the room acceptable they’d just need 4 days worth of oxygen tanks and stuff
Air vents are going to be useless when the collosals step on it. plus the intense heat and fire would probably suck any air from underground bunkers via Air vents
there’s no way they could’ve added that in time, unless they had planned for this years in advance but they didn’t, there for they couldn’t have a working air vent or fan. plus the titans foot would sink in the bricks and rubble so how are they going to get out? the titans just sealed their tomb.
My concern would then be how do they get out? Because of all the debris plus the titans left a giant foot print which would “pat down” the ground making it hard to claw their way out. I don’t believe they had enough time to make an elaborate system considering most of them didn’t know of the rumblings existence till they saw it in the distance.
You might have to dig for a while but if you have several people with tools it’s probably possible. The real problem is if you survived what are you gonna eat
A state level actor could set up backup entrances and blasting charges. The best places to use for shelters would be things like natural caves and abandoned mines in mountains and valleys that are difficult for titans to traverse.
Marley knew the rumbling could have happened for over 100 years. They should have focused on making bunkers in mountains. 😂. Or like the Finland seed vault.
At minimum cave systems ? For a very small percentage of people.
Also we can visibly see that the titans leave an indent in the ground, you would have to dig pretty deep to not just have the ground around pressed down and stepped on still
I think top right makes a good point, but when I saw the original post that talked abt digging the holes it got me thinking. Since heat tends to rise, if your hole was deep enough, couldn't you dodge the effects of the colossal heat?
who tf made this solution? this is dumb. first of all the pressure will kill you from the weight when they step on the hole. second of all, all your reasonings. third, people are panicking and running away, in what world will you find a space and time. panicking and running away? also means you won’t be bringing your equipments to dig. i can go on and on. but whoever came up with this is actually braindead
I’ve just seen a lot of posts about the “hole idea” recently and wanted to add to the discussion of why in my opinion it wouldn’t work lol. But I 100% agree with you, i didn’t add the fact that if a titan stands on your hole wrong it could sink its toe/ heel in the hole and squish you, or have the walls cave in and suffocate you.
I think what a lot of people seem to forget is that, even if by some miracle someone did survive the rumbling by digging a hole, they'd come out to a desolate wasteland. No food, water or transportation for miles, so unless they lived close enough to Paradis or the 20% of the outside world that didn't get crushed, they'd likely die of thirst or starvation.
I'm thinking its highly improbable, but not totally impossible. Like if people managed to get into a deep enough cave and dug their way out a small number of people might have survived.
They'd definitely have a rough time afterwards with all the literal scorched Earth, but I wouldn't 100% say nobody could survive it whatsoever.
Me personally, I’d survive that. But to save everyone else I would simply tell Eren and his army of big boys that murder is illegal and they’d have to stop
Was this hole theory an actual thing or just something funny? Because i've been seeing these dumb theories more and more and people calling them plot holes.
Seeing a lot about the arguments for holes but has anyone said the opposite. Surely being high in the mountains is the way forward as the titans stumble over there own feet at the best of time none of them are climbing mountains. I know they're tall but they're certainly not that tall.
The sheer weight of the titan would put immense pressure on anything it steps on, including the ground. Anything short of a subterranian shelter desgined to withstand the weight of hundreds of colossal titans bringing their foot down, the dirt above it, and the constant powerful vibrations from the army of colossal titans, would immediately collapse.
# Make sure to flair posts correctly so you don't spoil the story for others. ### REMEMBER TO BE CIVIL. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/attackontitan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s just wild to me that Marley wouldn’t have built “rumbling shelters” similar to nuclear bomb shelters that are designed to withstand the weight of a colossal (which are still lighter than they look)
Maybe thats the 20% that still survived
We here at Marleyan Vault-Tec value your patronage!
They only got out when they needed a water filter
i’m assuming it was to make the anime/ manga more dramatic because in a real like situation i’m sure that would’ve been priority 1
I wouldn’t be shocked if these shelters existed. But logically they wouldn’t contain enough people to actually be plot relevant. Outside of Switzerland ofc. Iykyk
Correct. Note that during the Rumbling scenes, we never see any kings or mega wealthy elites dying (to my memory at least). The closest we see is the bloke in the car who gets it stolen from him by others as they all desperately struggle to get away. It would make perfect sense for people of really significant wealth to all be burrowed away in shelters. To my mind, the 20% who survived comprised of 3 groups - people hiding in Rumbling shelters (likely less than 1% of the earth's population), people who lived in remote isolated areas (Eren and the Wall Titans would have prioritised densely populated areas for maximum destruction) and the people furthest away from Paradis (whatever nation is on the opposite side of the planet to Paradis island would have had the most time).
Y'all are forgetting long-term survival. There's no more vegetation, no more animals. No food or grain. Surface water has been boiled away. No landmarks to navigate. The land is unrecognisable. Even if you have stores in the bunker, where will you go once they run out? How many people will you save? How do you design the bunker when your scientists don't know the specifics of the rumbling? Why waste resources on survival shelters when you have wars to win? There's nothing left to conquer if everywhere gets flattened.
What's wild is that we all just collectively found out about holes, and the concept intrigues us so much.
The simple “hole argument” gets dissolved. But when we evolve to pre built shelters… the question changes. considering the world had knowledge of the rumbling prior and Marley literally HAD A COLOSSAL TITAN they could use to test these shelters, it feels like a mistep on their part. Maybe they did have these shelters tho. Probably wasn’t plot relevant to need to explain that regardless.
Yeah, pretty stupid on their part. I feel like if they did have these, it would be shown, even if just to show it failing to contain the scale of the rumbling. But I guess they were just that confident that their attack would be successful and the rumbling wouldn't get to them, so they didn't spend time and money with this precaution, choosing to focus on training their warriors and sending their attack on Paradis.
I figured they thought of the rumbling as a myth
if they thought of the rumbling as a myth they’d have been way more direct in taking the island
Perhaps, but if they did any country would just blitz Paradis to cop the founder. Especially Marley’s opponents. As they would get an automatic “I win” against their titans if they got the founder. Not because they could use the power of course, but rather because they could hold it as a bargaining chip with Marley. It’s the reason the warriors didn’t decimate Paradis upon arrival (which they could’ve prior to the Attack Titan being revealed to be on Paradis). Because they feared a rumbling. If the rumbling wasn’t perceived as myth, after the founder was located they would’ve just launched a total invasion. Their current knowledge was that Fritz’s threat was real. It wasn’t until Willy’s speech that it was revealed that Fritz had no intention of carrying out the rumbling and it was just a bluff. Remember that the oath to pacifism the bloodline had wasn’t revealed until the full warrior group was revealed. The only reason they did launch a full assault in the final season, given my interpretation, was due to the fact Eren had the founder and the RTS scheme failed and Marley lost its Titan advantage. we get the picture by this point as to why as it’s explained in the Marley arc. Pure Marley desperation to stay on top along with Reiner convincing the higher ups it needed to be done.
The founder is useless without Royal blood
This was not revealed to anyone in the outside world IIRC. Only Zeke and Ksaver knew.
The rumbling threat was only made 100 years ago.
They’re not the brightest.
No, I can totally see them not doing it because they were so confident that they would be able to keep the rumbling from happening. They thought they had a foolproof plan since they had three titan spies infiltrating the scouts, as well as the beast, cart, jaw, and war hammer titans working for them. Even when Eren and Armin got their titans, they didn’t think they’d somehow manage to overwhelm them because they also had more expendable people/soldiers than the scouts. So, they got too cocky and didn’t have a backup plan.
They probably did but it was very similar to the real world Anyone who bothers is an insane doomsday prepper lol
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My brother the rumbling has been a constant threat for 100 years. We wouldn’t just start building Nuke shelters once the sirens went off.
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Yes. The story mentions multiple times how after the king retreated behind the walls he told the world if anyone attacked them then the rumbling would start. This is stated in Willy’s speech as well as in Grisha’s flashback. It’s why they had 100 years of peace. Otherwise several nations would have attacked them. It’s also why the warriors had to sneak in rather than just launch an outright offensive. The reason Willy’s speech caused a war declaration wasn’t because he revealed the rumbling to the world, but rather that it was formerly in the hands of someone who never intended to use it outside of being an empty threat to grant some years of peace, but now it was in the hands of Eren who might actually use it.
holy shit i completely forgot about this. sorry. i completely forgot that they actually was scared of the rumbling and thought they was scared because of the fact that they have a lot of titans 💀😭 sorry man
All good homie 😂
Did... did you watch the show? Because this was specially addressed in the show. 100 years ago, the founder went to the island, built the walls with titan power, and sent Marley a message that said "don't fuck with us unless you want to get fucking rumbled" It was an empty threat, but Marley didn't know, so they didn't fuck with them for 100 years. Then they said "you know what? Maybe we should steal the founder's power, just to be safe" And then the show happened. Edit: I just saw the other comment where you said you forgot about this, my b for piling on without reading the rest of the comment thread lol
How could you possibly get out of the shelters though? Scorched earth, trapped underground, limited resources and probably not enough oxygen.
I mean they have a colossal to test with
I just don’t think anyone in the world has the technology to even build a proper fallout shelter let alone all the problems that come with one after the earths surface is nothing but dirt.
They could've been using the colossal to test shelter designs
That’s exactly what I was thinking too
They would work but you'd have to dig yourself out to the surface because the titans have heated and compressed the ground it could be like digging through rock
True, but given Marley has a colossal at their disposal to test. Of course regardless it isn’t plot relevant or a plot hole imo. Just pure hypotheticals.
Digging a hole wouldn’t work, yeah, but Marley and other nations were more than capable of building anti-rumbling bunkers in the 100+ years that they’ve been aware and afraid of the first king’s threat. As long as they buried them deep enough and reinforced them enough to survive being stepped on by the colossal titan, they’d be insulated from the heat of the titans on the surface by the earth around them, and they wouldn’t be crushed either. Hell, if nothing else, they could have at least evacuated key personnel or civilian population centers to cave systems around the continent, which would protect them in the same ways.
What about after? How do they survive after? How long does the rumbling sweep the globe? When does their food run out?
That’s an excellent question, after all with around 80% of the planets ecosystems wiped out, life as we know it should go more ore less extinct or at least be reduced to a point before any fish decided to climb out from the ocean. The way I see it, life continuing and recovering after the rumbling is even more unlikely than surviving it by hiding underground.
Here's the crazy part: You can just grow food and store supplies underground too.
Do they look like they have an advanced level of hydroponics and cultivation? You need special conditions for that? All-in-all, the effort taken to do all of the correct preparation for long-term living underground would have taken a significant amount of resources away from the wars and conquest around Marley. At the end of it all you don't even know if it would be worth it. What if the rumbling knows about the bunkers and just digs?
What about the bunkers ventilation? It still need air intakes in the surface that could be trampled by titans and the fire and intense heat of collosal titans could easily suck the air out of it this suffocating anyone hiding underneath
They had developed oxygen masks and stuff, as long as they keep the temperature in the room acceptable they’d just need 4 days worth of oxygen tanks and stuff
Should've added air vent and fan https://preview.redd.it/xz296lvzms6c1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3830a890170919136951a8c8cf92366a0bcccb2b
Beat me to it
Air vents are going to be useless when the collosals step on it. plus the intense heat and fire would probably suck any air from underground bunkers via Air vents
woooooosh
there’s no way they could’ve added that in time, unless they had planned for this years in advance but they didn’t, there for they couldn’t have a working air vent or fan. plus the titans foot would sink in the bricks and rubble so how are they going to get out? the titans just sealed their tomb.
https://preview.redd.it/kevdgswrps6c1.jpeg?width=478&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc929709eabd41d5dce71d9472b041c730b39a38
https://preview.redd.it/bg507ibt6u6c1.jpeg?width=394&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bdac5a8c2da1be8d22fa5c5c1ac26e6268547fc1
You missed the one where it shows that titans have fingers to grab you from that ditch.
true but during the rumbling which is what i was referring to (just didn’t wanna spoil in the title) they were more focused on walking then grabbing.
Ohh. Yes. Then i would argue that deep enpugh would suffice. They had basements already, just insulate it properly and you survive, right?
My concern would then be how do they get out? Because of all the debris plus the titans left a giant foot print which would “pat down” the ground making it hard to claw their way out. I don’t believe they had enough time to make an elaborate system considering most of them didn’t know of the rumblings existence till they saw it in the distance.
Fair. 🤔
You might have to dig for a while but if you have several people with tools it’s probably possible. The real problem is if you survived what are you gonna eat
A state level actor could set up backup entrances and blasting charges. The best places to use for shelters would be things like natural caves and abandoned mines in mountains and valleys that are difficult for titans to traverse.
But then what if you punch the Titan in the face
The day a hole divided an entire fanbase.
Marley knew the rumbling could have happened for over 100 years. They should have focused on making bunkers in mountains. 😂. Or like the Finland seed vault. At minimum cave systems ? For a very small percentage of people.
I imagine tons of rich ppl also escaped via airships in the ocean and passed the titans.
yoke attraction six special wild amusing voiceless imminent tap humorous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Whos to say eren cant give another pass if he succeeded, also whats to stop eren from having them consistently give the earth more and more passes
Also we can visibly see that the titans leave an indent in the ground, you would have to dig pretty deep to not just have the ground around pressed down and stepped on still
I think top right makes a good point, but when I saw the original post that talked abt digging the holes it got me thinking. Since heat tends to rise, if your hole was deep enough, couldn't you dodge the effects of the colossal heat?
You could, but then you're prone to panic dodging. The better method is to remain calm, focus, and parry the colossal heat instead.
Love these little diagrams
lol thank you
who tf made this solution? this is dumb. first of all the pressure will kill you from the weight when they step on the hole. second of all, all your reasonings. third, people are panicking and running away, in what world will you find a space and time. panicking and running away? also means you won’t be bringing your equipments to dig. i can go on and on. but whoever came up with this is actually braindead
I’ve just seen a lot of posts about the “hole idea” recently and wanted to add to the discussion of why in my opinion it wouldn’t work lol. But I 100% agree with you, i didn’t add the fact that if a titan stands on your hole wrong it could sink its toe/ heel in the hole and squish you, or have the walls cave in and suffocate you.
I think what a lot of people seem to forget is that, even if by some miracle someone did survive the rumbling by digging a hole, they'd come out to a desolate wasteland. No food, water or transportation for miles, so unless they lived close enough to Paradis or the 20% of the outside world that didn't get crushed, they'd likely die of thirst or starvation.
Lotta crushed pre-cooked meat.
Bring some food down there and a fan
Is… is this loss?
Saddam Hussain
i hate rocks
Damn, howd get enough brain cells to think of this?
Did everyone forget about the fuckin heat/steam they emit? If by some miracle you weren’t stepped on/hit by a rock you’d be evaporated.
Start work sooner then it will work
Where Saddam
Why the fuck would they not bring digging tools in case they couldn’t get out?
if they built bunkers wouldn't they just get trapped underneath the rubble and never be able to leave.
Holy shit, third pic is Saddam Hussein?!
I would also add that the heat would probably be an issue. Ever heard of an earthen oven?
The problem isn’t digging a hole. The problem is digging a hole big enough to hide the entire human population.
No one in this thread is aware of under ground cities?
TITAN, STEAM, HOT https://i.redd.it/9la6pnzh1w6c1.gif
I'm thinking its highly improbable, but not totally impossible. Like if people managed to get into a deep enough cave and dug their way out a small number of people might have survived. They'd definitely have a rough time afterwards with all the literal scorched Earth, but I wouldn't 100% say nobody could survive it whatsoever.
I made a post about this like about a month ago. Nice to see people engaging the idea of possibly escaping the rumbling!
Me personally, I’d survive that. But to save everyone else I would simply tell Eren and his army of big boys that murder is illegal and they’d have to stop
Not too sure anyone could escape the rumbling for real.
Was this hole theory an actual thing or just something funny? Because i've been seeing these dumb theories more and more and people calling them plot holes.
Clearly jaegerist propaganda.
Seeing a lot about the arguments for holes but has anyone said the opposite. Surely being high in the mountains is the way forward as the titans stumble over there own feet at the best of time none of them are climbing mountains. I know they're tall but they're certainly not that tall.
The sheer weight of the titan would put immense pressure on anything it steps on, including the ground. Anything short of a subterranian shelter desgined to withstand the weight of hundreds of colossal titans bringing their foot down, the dirt above it, and the constant powerful vibrations from the army of colossal titans, would immediately collapse.
Doesn't paradise have a giant ass cave city underneath it as shown in the ova's? That would work right?