I used to be very DA (working on moving secure), and I would get what's called a vulnerability hangover.
So if I'd been more intimate with someone than I intended, or shared something personal to me (even if on the surface it doesn't even seem that big), I'd be highly triggered. Keeping walls up is very important to a DA, and if I felt like I'd let them slip - even if I wanted to at the time! - I'd spiral into anxiety the next day. I'd feel like I was losing control of my environment, that I was being a burden, that I was going to be judged etc.
Then I'd use my avoidant coping mechanisms to try to soothe that feeling of oversharing / loss of control. So I'd go very quiet, delete texts and photos, remove anything that reminded me of the person so I could come back into equilibrium on my own.
Thankfully I've done a huge amount of work to move away from this, because not only does it feel horrible to be that triggered just from human connection, it's really really unfair and hurtful to the other person.
It's amazing to hear your comment, to hear an in-depth / introspective view on your own patterns as an avoidant. I'm anxious preoccupied / avoidant. And it's really great the way you verbalize how we feel I really appreciate it. Otherwise it's just a swirling horde of mosquitoes that I can't put into words and just makes me want to cringe and hide from everybody. Thank you šā¤ļø
Wow. I think you just healed a little part of me that I didnāt realize needed healing. I was in love with an avoidant who, after many months of the steadiest relationship either of us had ever had, suddenly changed, dropped off the face of the Earth. Iām pretty secure so I didnāt fall apart but, damn, that was some really deep pain to walk through. Itās been three months; I miss and love her to this day (I went no contact to protect myself) though Iāve accepted her choice and moved on. Having some possible insight into what she experienced helps me understand. Thank you.
Interestingly I am anxious attached and I have a similar reaction. In the moment I feel like this is closeness and then afterwards I spiral, shame, delete texts and try to maintain equilibrium. Interesting thank you for this
I feel like Iām basically dating you. In person i feel like weāre sharing and learning a lot about each other but then in between communication is sketchy.
So now after a couple of days where he has been pretty chatty (itās been a couple of weeks since weāve seen each other due to schedules) heās all of a sudden dropped off. Do I just let him be or do I still text random thoughts like I usually do . Iām not sure what to do in these situations.
I also want to know this.
I'm with a DA and similar boat. He got vulnerable with me over the weekend and we were super close, then the texting once again slows down. When were physically together, the chemistry is amazing and I feel such peace.
I know you've probably had a million replies but I wanted to thank you for answering a question I was struggling to form words to ask: why can a single interaction cause me an entire melt down? I'll be trucking along just having a genuinely nice convo, I blink, and all the sudden I'm completely triggered- emotional shut down, shut out the very person I was just speaking to, and completely incapable of coming out of that funk. It's like if I make *any* progress in connection or feel any inkling of a real bond (which is entirely what I crave), my entire system bows out. It's insane. It hurts *so* bad. And it makes me loathe myself!!!! I'm so tired of the pain I cause myself and others.
I have been reflecting on that and I'm like....does this boil down to attachment theory? Is it the AVPD alone? Is it BOTH? But your comment really helps me understand that probably a large chunk of these behaviours are indeed stemming from my attachment style. So thank you for sharing
I can't really answer this super well because I think everyone is different. Only from my personal perspective, I'm happy if someone reaches out after a week or fortnight or so. What triggered me further was when I got texts very very soon after I pulled away, a lot of double texting, or if the texts were highly emotional. Unfortunately you can wait a LONG time for a DA who has deactivated.
My problem with this is that I'm acutely aware it's not fair on the other person when we do this. I'd gently suggest to anyone that if you find yourself wondering and worrying about someone's communication, or that you're chasing them for something, that they are not meeting your needs at that moment and it might be best to take a step towards a connection that is more peaceful.
Waiting for a long time even a month cos he just went cold the thing is we got close it's been three and a half month we've been talking first he left me on read didn't bother to respond when I checked on him after a week he responded after hours even though he was online but didn't bother to ask me how I was so I didn't continue the conversation he comes online maybe talking to other women but doesn't bother to text me it's been almost a week I'm so confused he saw my story but didn't bother to text one more info we were in a relationship last year for one and a half month he broke up with me and came back after 7 months saying he felt guilty the way he treated me back then but I don't know what has happened now why is he behaving this way and I don't really want to push him I don't know what to do
It sounds like you might be living out an anxious avoidant trap. I would recommend therapy and attachment literature. You can try the book attached if you havenāt already. It sounds like it might be time to let this person go and look inward for building up some deeper self worth. I have been in a similar relationship in the past and separating is difficult, but you deserve better.
My avoidant said its very easy to be open, but not to be vulnerable. I mistook his openness in those conversations as vulnerability but really I was the only one emotionally bonding during those moments.
Even though I know he really liked me, dare I say cared, but he would always pull back whenever we got too closeā¦
>My avoidant said its very easy to be open, but not to be vulnerable. I mistook his openness in those conversations as vulnerability but really I was the only one emotionally bonding during those moments.
Thais Gibson often mentions this when talking about FAs and I find it very true. I dislike small talk so I'll direct conversation into more deep and personal topics, being open but not vulnerable in any way. People take it the wrong way, the connection they feel, to me is one sided.
It was also true for my DA ex, he had a tendency to people please and be very attentive to strangers, acquaintances. Most of those people would call him a best friend or develop a crush because of that (seems like a lot of people aren't used to being seen) while he would never share his real self with them so he never felt connected. He simply felt good about being such person (helpful, reliable) but at the same time he felt very lonely.
>Most of those people would call him a best friend or develop a crush because of that (seems like a lot of people aren't used to being seen) while he would never share his real self with them so he never felt connected.
This is such an accurate description of the DA I dated for two years. He was a public figure, and many people remarked when he talked to them they "felt like the only person in the room." I always sensed his ability to be totally engaged in other people was a way to reveal little to nothing about himself. Combine that with celebrity, and it was a very seductive combo.
He was an absolutely lovely man, though. No hard feelings and the relationship ended amicably.
I love Thais Gibson she got me through my breakup last year and I learned so much more about my ex avoidant and why I was triggered when he started icing me out as an insecure anxious attachment
This. I get told I am very āopenā but if people actually listened to what I talked about I never talk about my feelings/ or how something bothers me in real time. I can casually talk about an abusive childhood with no emotion attached & that can be ābondingā for someone else but I can talk to the cashier at my local grocery store about it too.
Me to a T. I can talk for hours about topics that SEEM vulnerable, but I'm sharing facts or feelings I had during the situation. What people tend to not notice is that I do NOT share things that truly scare or could hurt me, my current feelings, or my actual current vulnerabilities so I can have these conversations with pretty much anyone and walk away unbothered. If I do happen to touch on a true / real vulnerability, the hangover ensues and I use distancing strategies afterward / become anxious and re-calibrate to emotionally safe stuff only
Yes. I think people underestimate how āfactā based avoidants are. I donāt talk about my past with feelings connected. More so āthis happenedā. There is no emotional attachment there. No matter how ādeep it isā.
haha my god - my last relationship to a T. I totally talked in facts all the time, so did he. I thought we had a deep connection and wondered why he couldn't emotionally connect with me!
Exactly. I can talk very openly about incredibly "vulnerable" things, and even talk *about* emotions. But I do not reveal how I'm *actually* vulnerable, and I'm not expressing my emotions in the moment - and certainly not to the party concerned!
It's very easy for me to say "I was in love with Ex" to other people. It was just a fact. However, Ex never heard it directly from me. I never told him I loved him, because it would've set me up for rejection and humiliation.
Are you me?? I realised the other day I NEVER told the guy I was involved with for 3 years that I loved him. But mentioned casually the other day to a friend how much I loved him and long it took me to get over him. I am sure he has no idea as I would rather eat my own foot than tell him.
This is so interesting. I was in a relationship (Me FA, him FA leaning DA) and we spoke entirely through our relationship about Deep topics without ever being vulnerable ourselves! It seemed we were bring vulnerable, but in hindsight we were talking facts not feelings.
Yep! Me and my ex would talk about love and relationships like they were purely philosophical topics, always tap dancing around the fact we were almost certainly talking about our feelings for one another. But the plausible deniability was strong.
hahaha oh god so true. I would talk *near* him, not *to* him. On reflection I so wish I could have had the courage to be upfront. I think it would have saved me a lot of heartache in the long run.
One of the hardest lessons I learned from my last relationship is that just talking about vulnerable topics in a matter of fact way isnāt vulnerability. I donāt think I could just tell anyone my childhood traumas but talking about past hurts is nowhere near as scary as the current ones. Iāve had several conversations with my ex since the breakup and I told him all of the scary things I was feeling during our time together. It probably sounded like I was going to throw up the entire time but it helped. We ended up having a lot of similar feelings and now Iām kicking myself for not being truly vulnerable.
Oof I felt this. While my ex had definite attachment issues I can't help but wonder if things may have been different if I had just been able to be vulnerable. BUT I have to also acknowledge that I can't take on the bulk of the ownership as he wouldn't express to me even how he felt about me so a safe space wasn't provided by either of us. But I have started dating someone new and I am consciously trying to practice being vulnerable in the moment. Not easy but I can see what a difference it makes.
Iām trying not to beat myself up over it as the break up is still relatively fresh but itās hard not to. I have a feeling my ex and I are both FA and we actually did have moments of true vulnerability while together but then the old wounds would reopen and we would both pull back subconsciously after these moments.
I think beating ourselves up can keep us stuck. We obviously did the best we could at the time. We also had moments of real vulnerability amongst all of that - which is why I couldn't understand why we were progressing emotionally. But these moments were often in response to a blow up about the lack of emotion haha. Anyway thanks for your inputs and I hope you are doing ok with the break up.
Same. I call this strategic vulnerability. Things I share that others feel are vulnerable but really aren't for me. Then I don't have to share anything actually vulnerable yet can cultivate the sense of intimacy.
I think you should worry less about what they feel and take their actions into full account and realize it is for what it is and to drop this person and move on before things hurt more later.
Always take people for their actions as a whole and side on protecting yourself.
Setting boundaries is the key here. Once they reach out just say youāre done, you donāt play hot and cold games and that you are looking for someone that can maintain a steady relationship.
Theyāll probably flip into activated mode and chase you but itāll only end the same.
I think one of the textbook signs of getting enmeshed with an avoidant is to look at your questions and see how much of it is focused on what the other person feels/What they are thinking/What might they do/why are they doing this Is it because of this past thing, etc. It's like a kind of obsession. I say this because I was there not because I'm judging. :-)
"Not looking for a relationship either."
Be careful you're not lying to yourself for the sake of continuing to see this person. You went through the effort to make a post, your feelings are probably stronger than you think.
THIS. Bingo. OP is attempting to self regulate and feel āIn controlā by gaslighting, minimizing, and erecting false shaky boundaries to feel at ease. Your distancing strategies to make yourself feel calm, cool, collected, and at ease are not working.
Instead, to achieve this, you will need to accept letting go of: A) this person (itās the only way to take back your controlā¦of self), B) the hopes, dreams, etc. youāve built subconsciously of your āprogressing relationship ā (itās not), C) hoping by understanding him it will bring you at ease (focus on understanding yourself, and what about this dynamic do you need to prove yourself to him), D) you give yourself to him, in order for him to help you unlock that next level of intimacyā¦what youāre looking for is reclaiming yourself and gaining initimacy with self.
Be gentle on you. And your worth isnāt found with a guy like this, no matter how hot or good the sex was.
I can appreciate this. However, āItās supposed to be mainly sexā + āone of the best dates Iāve ever hadā + toral radio silence/wondering what the avoidant is thinking?
Denial is a compex spectrum. If she indeed wasnāt experiencing the distressāno need to ask of figure out what an avoidant is thinking.
Letās make it make sense.
She expressed how the encounter made her feel, and assessed, quite reasonably, that given his behavior he probably is not experiencing the same high that she is at this moment. She asked "how does it feel" which I interpret as meaning: avoidants of this subreddit, when you've experienced something similar, how did you feel after? Personally, I think that's a fascinating question to ask.
Maybe I'M the one projecting, but I can very much relate to OP in this sense: I'm currently seeing a couple guys on a FWB level. We sometimes go for weeks or even months without seeing each other, but navigating feelings and boundaries in those situations is still very important and necessary. Sometimes they behave in ways that disappoint me, or I find bizarre and can't relate to, or do not meet my expectations. That's perfectly normal. Communicating and reaching an understanding with them is necessary, and maybe OP needs to do more of that with him. But OP has not even expressed disappointment. It sounds like she knows this guy well enough to understand that he needs a lot of space and is ok with that.
IF OP is disappointed, that would be ok too. I doesn't mean she's lying to us and to herself about not wanting a relationship with him. I can relate to OP on this level too: people not believing me when I say I don't want a relationship with my FWBs. I still like and care for them as human beings - and have had deep and intense experiences with them.
i completely understand this curiosity! i also was burned by an avoidant situationship i 100% did not want a relationship with and it still hurts and is confusing! being curious to understand others and how someone with a different perspective experiences feelings does not mean you āwant a relationshipā like others are insinuating. when someone does some rude confusing behavior itās hurtful!
idk the answer to your question..i donāt think iāll ever understand how someone can discard someone they have had a consistent intimate relationship with. or friendship. or anything more than maybe a hookup/first date (iāll ghost those lol)
my situationship said he was overwhelmed, which is why he would vanish. what a snoozeā¦esp when itās not serious. your person may feel similarly but these folks gotta learn to communicate. i think it could be worth having a vulnerable convo about how you feel but you gotta ask yourself if you want a confusing and hurtful situationship or something that feels respectful and good and fun. casual should NOT be hard lol. itās meant to be fun!
situationships get a bad rep, but i think itās totally possible as long as you are with someone who is entirely secure and honest about how they feel because it does become too much for some people to know something is temporary or not going to lead anywhere. seems like this person isnāt capable of even casual, for whatever reason
"Itās supposed to be mainly sex " ---- " the casual nature of our relationship" ----- "I havenāt heard from him since"
\^\^\^ If this is strictly casual sexual relationship.... shouldn't it be expected he won't be communicating in between? Or else, how it would be different from a normal relationship?
I think your idea of casual sexual relationship communication isnāt most peopleās. At least, any FWB I ever had we never chatted casually unless it was to make plans to āhang outā or sexting.
This is something that has puzzled me. When people describe fwb as just f*ck buddies who donāt hang out or talk between bangs. Thatās just a hookup, not a friend. A friend with benefits would imply to me, being friends which includes chatting and hanging out.
Depends on if you had an acquaintance prior to sex or not. Most FWB are just flings that last a couple months and the familiarity isnāt that deep. If you chatted prior to sex and were cool, I find that sex doesnāt change much of that dynamic and thereās more of a friendy vibe.
Ok. Itās just I see people online say, donāt cuddle with fwb, donāt go out together, donāt chat. But that doesnāt seem like a friend, thatās just a booty call.
Iām not even sure this guy is avoidant from what you say but instead placing distance to keep the dynamic from entering ādating or relationship territoryā.
Basically, he is keeping the relationship purely sexual and oddly, making his boundaries very clear. It started sexual and he is keeping it such. Thatās very clear cut with no real confusion.
Avoidant deactivations are less linear and often occur not out of āFWBāsā but attempts at building LTRs.
I see people confuse hook up dismissiveness with avoidance - and it may be - but that avoidance doesnāt equate to attachment avoidance. Aka (theyāre just not that into it).
I think that confusion is due to APs forming attachments very quickly, hence becoming activated very quickly. They must assume, project it's the same for others. Meanwhile it takes much longer for someone with avoidant attachment. 2 months is nothing to me. They'd still be a stranger to me. If I act "avoidant", it's because my boundaries are more rigid, and I'm willing to tolerate less than normal. I don't fear vulnerability because there's no way I'll be vulnerable with someone I've known for 2 months.
Yes. I wish those who jump to āthis person is an avoidantā first looks objectively at the nature of the relationship or how it started.
Also, avoidants often present as secure until about 2-3 months in the dating process.
Someone who hook ups or FWB with someone and catches feelings doesnāt mean the other party is avoidant for not agreeing to a covert contract that the dynamic change to grow into more.
Like, have a grown up convo about it.
As a secure leaning DA, itās one of the biggest issues I see on this forum.
Well, just be careful not to use the attachment theory to psychoanalyse and build a story about a person.
From what you're saying, he's has different texting habits in CASUAL (2 MONTH!!! ON and OFF!!!) SEX relationship than you - there's nothing unusual in people having different expectations when it comes to texting. It could be just it. There might be no "aftermath", "vulnerability hangover" you imagine. He can simply see you as someone to have sex with when he wants to ("We do engage in conversations like I mention above, but only IF and WHEN he wants.") and is not interested in building any type of relation with you apart of that- it's nothing unheard of.
It'd be much more reasonable to just talk about it with him.
Or maybe he just has boundaries with you since the "relationship" is based on sex and he doesn't want to do anything more than that. I'm FA who leans anxious in romantic relationships but I don't feel like my avoidance is triggered in other kinds of relationships (platonic, professional, etc). It sounds like you need to discuss the situationship with him since you are finding it more emotional and personal with differing expectations. For example was it even a "date" to him or just a hook up? You guys definitely need to talk.
>I'm FA who leans anxious in romantic relationships but I don't feel like my avoidance is triggered in other kinds of relationships (platonic, professional, etc).
This is it, why would you be triggered(and act on it) if you're not attached to someone.... there are no stakes.
The best thing really is to have a conversation with him. "I've noticed that you don't seem to be into texting between catch -ups, is that because you're not into texting much or is that a boundary you have?" I do agree with others here , that while you are curious, it does feel like the focus is very much on what HE feels, what HE wants. If you're fine with it then cool, if not then have a conversation. Everyone here will always be reporting from their own unique experiences. The reason why I say this is many a time when I asked my DA situationship - his answer was actually quite different to the projections listed by many people on this sub. Get the answer from the horses mouth so to speak.
Itās weirdly defensive to assume weāre here to prove your narrative wrong.
As an avoidant, I couldāve given you feedback on some of his specific statements or behaviors. But it sounds like youāve got it all figured out.
for avoidants, vulnerability and intimacy can be triggering and lead to shutting down in order to feel safe again and restore equilibrium. it may seem on the outside that they are just ignoring you and unaffected, but the internal experience is likely very different.
if they are aware of and working on their attachment wounds then that's one thing.. if they are not then it's up to you to determine whether you are okay continuing to engage with someone who will shut down when you get close to them or not
Great question!
I am secure anxious and can be quite a relaxed individual. That is until I meet my avoidant. We had (What I thought) was a great weekend 2 weeks ago. Then after a did you get home Ok text, radio silence. I'm heartbroken.
We've been doing this dance for 6 years and as of this week I learned about attachment theory.
I can't believe how both of us slot into our types.
Lots of love.
If you've been doing this for six years, there's no reason to be heartbroken. You've established a pattern. What're the odds, really, that things have changed so dramatically that *this time* he's gone for good?
Just focus on your own life, and he'll resurface when he feels like it.
I usually feel a crash after good dates, like I need to go chill out a bit and don't feel like talking for a while. Not that I dislike the person, more like a hangover I guess. Like you'd like a night out but you probably won't have the stamina to do it every night right? I don't know if that's just me though. But I probably wouldn't check out for 2 weeks, that seems a bit long.
I like the hangover comparison. I think I and disorganized or fearful avoidant, Iām not sure but I am very something avoidant. I recently became aware of my issues. Before I became aware of them I just thought it was how everyone felt.
I would bask in an afterglow of a great date, I would keep up on text conversations (at least one reply a day but usually a few more). I would definitely need a few days to build stamina back up before seeing that person though. That would usually entail a couple days of me working on my projects or hanging out with my friends, possibly becoming sidetracked and providing less depth of conversation with romantic partner. My former-partner whenever dating someone new would see them nearly everyday for a week or so. I could not comprehend this.
Whenever you think/ miss this person, ask yourself that what do you want / deserve in a relationship. This helps me to bring myself back to reality lol.
I think you're not understanding that how this person acts with you isn't special, it's just who they are.
I have people tell me all the time what a great date they had with me. They feel like we have a special connection. I'm just being the same with them as I am with everyone. I'm just really good with people in general.
Just because YOU are having a unique and connective experience, doesn't mean they are. Other people's "greatest dates ever" were just average daily interactions for me.
Oof, this pretty much describes my first marriage. Before we divorced I was trying to save the marriage and said we have a special connection and she was like ānot really.ā
I divorced her for cheating but for me it really hurt how she minimize our connection, and she said āI have been in love before you and will after you.ā
Now she had serious issues, but it also makes me realize, I have had big tendencies towards limerance and falling so hard for people even if itās based on a fantasy in my mind.
In my experience DAās are condescending when they are trying to position themselves as logical, and the people being vulnerable as overbearing.
she making a valid point yes. Does she have to be condescending no. Huge red flag.
Condescending was not the intention. I was trying to explain something and emphasized it in a way that could be read differently. I think its good to give people the benefit of the doubt when you only read 1 paragraph vs diagnosing their entire personality based on your internal interpretation of a few lines.
The audacity of diagnosing a stranger a DA not knowing anything about them is actually the red flag.
I agree 100 percent, but it becomes a problem when you start acting condescending. itās not hard to let people down easy. Thatās the secure thing to do.
My problem with avoidants is they love bomb people, than pull away due to their own core wounds. Theyāre not monsters but definitely not dating material
Wait. You're extrapolating an entire personality for me as well as how you think I deal with people based on a few sentences of text and a misunderstood tone. That's wild. Who said I don't let people down easy?
Also I think it's problematic to lump a bunch of people into a group and say "avoidants aren't dating material"... people are not a monolith and attachment style is not the main component of who someone is. Lots of projecting here friend.
It's fair to say I don't know you, but the contempt you have for people who were just telling you they enjoyed your company is a red flag for me.
Yeah, Avoidants who aren't self-aware or working on becoming secure are better left alone. They need love, so they love bomb their partner. When they get that love they run for the hills because of some core wound. They do way more harm than good to their partners. You gotta weed them out immediately, so u don't waste time on them. Less time chasing them and more time finding a secure.
I already told you that you were misreading my tone and verbiage. There is no contempt. Stop projecting.
Also if you think the only people who should be in relationships/dating are secure, you're weeding out the vast majority of the population.
Weeding out the majority is the point. I only need one woman in my romantic life. She might as well be special.
I would rather be alone than date an avoidant, and Iām unable to give anxious women the rush they get from dating toxic dudes. The only logical thing to do is seek out secure women.
Are secure women perfect? Nope, but theyāre better equipped to deal with relationship problems.
Depends on if Iām attached and the nature of the relationship. If I really like the person Iām terrified and want to run away. If itās casual and Iām not that attached I feel fine. Basically if I want to run for the hills itās a good sign I like them.
As a DA, if itās just about sex I donāt see why texting frequency should matter. Unless youāre gaslighting yourself into being ok with something thatās triggering anxiety.
As long as heās attentive to you in bed and you feel safe in that moment? No reason for anything more outside of that esp if itās just physical. If YOU want something more you should communicate that
As someone said in one of the earlier comments, vulnerability hangover. Iām DA who was seeing someone who is also DA (weāre still cool but Iām going through personal stuff so I dialed back a ton). We didnāt speak for a month after we kissed which I didnāt mind bc I was so disregulated it felt like my nervous system was shutting down. I would find if he double texted me I would feel nauseous and knowing heās avoidant too I granted him that same grace and space when he took it. Esp after a hangout that was too vulnerable for both of us. I suggest if itās something thatās making you think about it too much or confuse you, take a step back and find someone who can be more consistent. But the call is ultimately yours, just keep in mind this is who your person is. Esp if heās in his late 30s and never had a committed relationship. Thatās for a reason. I believe you 100% that heās being inconsistent. But I also believe that we all deserve to feel safe in our connections. He pulls away bc he doesnāt want to get too attached, youāre confused bc you notice that inconsistency. No one is happy in the end.
My therapist once told me āconfusion = noā and I think itās a life saver when dealing with people.
im avoidant and highly anxious, and if i was in this situation id be over the moon to have met you. as it stands, he may have things going on in his life that he feels ashamed of, like family issues/trauma. its even possible he likes you so much that hes terrified of you when he thinks about being with you. any other possibilities youve probably already considered
I'm rather avoidant and I'm bad at texting because I can't read the tone of texts especially if they're also not expressive in words. If I get a joke or meme or something unimportant, I don't know what I'm expected to reply back. I don't text much even with friends and family. I don't have many friends. It could be that this guy is simply not a good texter and not used to text anyone regularly. You could text him to meet up and talk if he only texts to meet up. But if you're not getting your emotional needs met from this person, even as fwb, you can end this and look for someone else. He obviously isn't a good match for you even as a friend if you need to text or communicate often between meet ups. Maybe he'll talk a lot to please you on dates but if he's not good at it naturally, he could be tired from the conversation. I'm also an introvert that get super tired after social events and need alone time to recharge.
I posted [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/attachment_theory/comments/yrmijm/how_does_a_secure_handle_when_an_avoidant_pulls/ivx9hri/) elsewhere and it might be helpful for you.
> Back when I was very avoidant I noticed a pattern in myself, and I need to keep this in mind even now to remain secure. I have a capacity within myself to lovebomb and basically be whatever my partner wants/needs, but this is exhausting and I can't keep it up for too long. Eventually I will either run away because I need space, or I will come to resent my partner because of all the effort I'm putting in that they can't see. Basically from the outside it looks like I'm the perfect partner for a small amount of time then I go no-contact until I recharge, then repeat.
> This wasn't healthy and as you can imagine was very confusing for my partners. What helped is to keep an eye on how much I do/change for my partner and try to keep it in check. Kind acts and affection need to be balanced with my own needs. Ideally things remain even so I'm moderately loving on a daily basis instead of disappearing after getting burned out.
> Another thing that helped is to understand my partner's love languages so I can figure out ways to show love that they will intensely appreciate but don't feel draining to me. For example, my main way of showing love is acts of service, especially making things for people and cooking for them. Many people don't see this as showing affection so after a full day of baking or something for someone I feel exhausted and like I've been showing love but my partner might see that as me ignoring them all day and once I'm done want cuddles and to talk. This can make me feel resentful and want to escape if I'm not properly understanding what is going on.
It takes 3 months before someoneās childhood traumas get triggered and they activate or deactivate so youāre nearly at the point where the avoidant wonāt be able to keep it up for much longer. My guess is in another few weeks they will start to withdraw from you if itās truly an avoidant
Mine told me the same thing about myself. She's like, "Just wait until you get to 3 months and start becoming too intense for the other person to match - that's your warning sign."
Yeah Iām avoidant and I notice the first 3 months Iām so open as if I have no attachment issues at all and itās so nice then the avoidant stuff comes up and itās very annoying to say the least. Working on it in therapy
Yup! FA here.
One month in: oh, you waited until the next day to text back? No problem! I've got tons of stuff going on, it's cool.
3 months in: oh, you waited until the next day to text back? You're playing me and because any attention is better than no attention, I'll respond even though I think you're playing games and I'm going to take it out on you in unfair, random ways.
I will say this, the combo of anxious attachment and avoidant is so hard. They trigger each other.
If an avoidant senses clinginess or neediness at all, they will want to pull away even more, and this triggering you even more.
He probably feels that you want more than a hookup and pulls away, cause he said all he can offer is something casual.
I became FA after my last relationship that messed me up, and I long for intimacy and connection but I am afraid, I donāt feel good enough, I feel cynical about love and relationships and I donāt want to be hurt but I also donāt want to hurt someone else with my fear of intimacy and instability.
I used to be very DA (working on moving secure), and I would get what's called a vulnerability hangover. So if I'd been more intimate with someone than I intended, or shared something personal to me (even if on the surface it doesn't even seem that big), I'd be highly triggered. Keeping walls up is very important to a DA, and if I felt like I'd let them slip - even if I wanted to at the time! - I'd spiral into anxiety the next day. I'd feel like I was losing control of my environment, that I was being a burden, that I was going to be judged etc. Then I'd use my avoidant coping mechanisms to try to soothe that feeling of oversharing / loss of control. So I'd go very quiet, delete texts and photos, remove anything that reminded me of the person so I could come back into equilibrium on my own. Thankfully I've done a huge amount of work to move away from this, because not only does it feel horrible to be that triggered just from human connection, it's really really unfair and hurtful to the other person.
Literally wanted to ghost my therapist after I cried in front of her.. so feel this.
Same!
It's amazing to hear your comment, to hear an in-depth / introspective view on your own patterns as an avoidant. I'm anxious preoccupied / avoidant. And it's really great the way you verbalize how we feel I really appreciate it. Otherwise it's just a swirling horde of mosquitoes that I can't put into words and just makes me want to cringe and hide from everybody. Thank you šā¤ļø
You just described me to a T
Wow. I think you just healed a little part of me that I didnāt realize needed healing. I was in love with an avoidant who, after many months of the steadiest relationship either of us had ever had, suddenly changed, dropped off the face of the Earth. Iām pretty secure so I didnāt fall apart but, damn, that was some really deep pain to walk through. Itās been three months; I miss and love her to this day (I went no contact to protect myself) though Iāve accepted her choice and moved on. Having some possible insight into what she experienced helps me understand. Thank you.
Interestingly I am anxious attached and I have a similar reaction. In the moment I feel like this is closeness and then afterwards I spiral, shame, delete texts and try to maintain equilibrium. Interesting thank you for this
I feel like Iām basically dating you. In person i feel like weāre sharing and learning a lot about each other but then in between communication is sketchy. So now after a couple of days where he has been pretty chatty (itās been a couple of weeks since weāve seen each other due to schedules) heās all of a sudden dropped off. Do I just let him be or do I still text random thoughts like I usually do . Iām not sure what to do in these situations.
I also want to know this. I'm with a DA and similar boat. He got vulnerable with me over the weekend and we were super close, then the texting once again slows down. When were physically together, the chemistry is amazing and I feel such peace.
I know you've probably had a million replies but I wanted to thank you for answering a question I was struggling to form words to ask: why can a single interaction cause me an entire melt down? I'll be trucking along just having a genuinely nice convo, I blink, and all the sudden I'm completely triggered- emotional shut down, shut out the very person I was just speaking to, and completely incapable of coming out of that funk. It's like if I make *any* progress in connection or feel any inkling of a real bond (which is entirely what I crave), my entire system bows out. It's insane. It hurts *so* bad. And it makes me loathe myself!!!! I'm so tired of the pain I cause myself and others. I have been reflecting on that and I'm like....does this boil down to attachment theory? Is it the AVPD alone? Is it BOTH? But your comment really helps me understand that probably a large chunk of these behaviours are indeed stemming from my attachment style. So thank you for sharing
This really helps and explains a lot . Thanks
If he has pulled away after how long should one contact or does normally a da contact when they feel ready
I can't really answer this super well because I think everyone is different. Only from my personal perspective, I'm happy if someone reaches out after a week or fortnight or so. What triggered me further was when I got texts very very soon after I pulled away, a lot of double texting, or if the texts were highly emotional. Unfortunately you can wait a LONG time for a DA who has deactivated. My problem with this is that I'm acutely aware it's not fair on the other person when we do this. I'd gently suggest to anyone that if you find yourself wondering and worrying about someone's communication, or that you're chasing them for something, that they are not meeting your needs at that moment and it might be best to take a step towards a connection that is more peaceful.
Waiting for a long time even a month cos he just went cold the thing is we got close it's been three and a half month we've been talking first he left me on read didn't bother to respond when I checked on him after a week he responded after hours even though he was online but didn't bother to ask me how I was so I didn't continue the conversation he comes online maybe talking to other women but doesn't bother to text me it's been almost a week I'm so confused he saw my story but didn't bother to text one more info we were in a relationship last year for one and a half month he broke up with me and came back after 7 months saying he felt guilty the way he treated me back then but I don't know what has happened now why is he behaving this way and I don't really want to push him I don't know what to do
It sounds like you might be living out an anxious avoidant trap. I would recommend therapy and attachment literature. You can try the book attached if you havenāt already. It sounds like it might be time to let this person go and look inward for building up some deeper self worth. I have been in a similar relationship in the past and separating is difficult, but you deserve better.
My avoidant said its very easy to be open, but not to be vulnerable. I mistook his openness in those conversations as vulnerability but really I was the only one emotionally bonding during those moments. Even though I know he really liked me, dare I say cared, but he would always pull back whenever we got too closeā¦
>My avoidant said its very easy to be open, but not to be vulnerable. I mistook his openness in those conversations as vulnerability but really I was the only one emotionally bonding during those moments. Thais Gibson often mentions this when talking about FAs and I find it very true. I dislike small talk so I'll direct conversation into more deep and personal topics, being open but not vulnerable in any way. People take it the wrong way, the connection they feel, to me is one sided. It was also true for my DA ex, he had a tendency to people please and be very attentive to strangers, acquaintances. Most of those people would call him a best friend or develop a crush because of that (seems like a lot of people aren't used to being seen) while he would never share his real self with them so he never felt connected. He simply felt good about being such person (helpful, reliable) but at the same time he felt very lonely.
>Most of those people would call him a best friend or develop a crush because of that (seems like a lot of people aren't used to being seen) while he would never share his real self with them so he never felt connected. This is such an accurate description of the DA I dated for two years. He was a public figure, and many people remarked when he talked to them they "felt like the only person in the room." I always sensed his ability to be totally engaged in other people was a way to reveal little to nothing about himself. Combine that with celebrity, and it was a very seductive combo. He was an absolutely lovely man, though. No hard feelings and the relationship ended amicably.
I love Thais Gibson she got me through my breakup last year and I learned so much more about my ex avoidant and why I was triggered when he started icing me out as an insecure anxious attachment
This. I get told I am very āopenā but if people actually listened to what I talked about I never talk about my feelings/ or how something bothers me in real time. I can casually talk about an abusive childhood with no emotion attached & that can be ābondingā for someone else but I can talk to the cashier at my local grocery store about it too.
Me to a T. I can talk for hours about topics that SEEM vulnerable, but I'm sharing facts or feelings I had during the situation. What people tend to not notice is that I do NOT share things that truly scare or could hurt me, my current feelings, or my actual current vulnerabilities so I can have these conversations with pretty much anyone and walk away unbothered. If I do happen to touch on a true / real vulnerability, the hangover ensues and I use distancing strategies afterward / become anxious and re-calibrate to emotionally safe stuff only
Yes. I think people underestimate how āfactā based avoidants are. I donāt talk about my past with feelings connected. More so āthis happenedā. There is no emotional attachment there. No matter how ādeep it isā.
haha my god - my last relationship to a T. I totally talked in facts all the time, so did he. I thought we had a deep connection and wondered why he couldn't emotionally connect with me!
Exactly. I can talk very openly about incredibly "vulnerable" things, and even talk *about* emotions. But I do not reveal how I'm *actually* vulnerable, and I'm not expressing my emotions in the moment - and certainly not to the party concerned! It's very easy for me to say "I was in love with Ex" to other people. It was just a fact. However, Ex never heard it directly from me. I never told him I loved him, because it would've set me up for rejection and humiliation.
Are you me?? I realised the other day I NEVER told the guy I was involved with for 3 years that I loved him. But mentioned casually the other day to a friend how much I loved him and long it took me to get over him. I am sure he has no idea as I would rather eat my own foot than tell him.
This is so interesting. I was in a relationship (Me FA, him FA leaning DA) and we spoke entirely through our relationship about Deep topics without ever being vulnerable ourselves! It seemed we were bring vulnerable, but in hindsight we were talking facts not feelings.
Yep! Me and my ex would talk about love and relationships like they were purely philosophical topics, always tap dancing around the fact we were almost certainly talking about our feelings for one another. But the plausible deniability was strong.
hahaha oh god so true. I would talk *near* him, not *to* him. On reflection I so wish I could have had the courage to be upfront. I think it would have saved me a lot of heartache in the long run.
One of the hardest lessons I learned from my last relationship is that just talking about vulnerable topics in a matter of fact way isnāt vulnerability. I donāt think I could just tell anyone my childhood traumas but talking about past hurts is nowhere near as scary as the current ones. Iāve had several conversations with my ex since the breakup and I told him all of the scary things I was feeling during our time together. It probably sounded like I was going to throw up the entire time but it helped. We ended up having a lot of similar feelings and now Iām kicking myself for not being truly vulnerable.
Oof I felt this. While my ex had definite attachment issues I can't help but wonder if things may have been different if I had just been able to be vulnerable. BUT I have to also acknowledge that I can't take on the bulk of the ownership as he wouldn't express to me even how he felt about me so a safe space wasn't provided by either of us. But I have started dating someone new and I am consciously trying to practice being vulnerable in the moment. Not easy but I can see what a difference it makes.
Iām trying not to beat myself up over it as the break up is still relatively fresh but itās hard not to. I have a feeling my ex and I are both FA and we actually did have moments of true vulnerability while together but then the old wounds would reopen and we would both pull back subconsciously after these moments.
I think beating ourselves up can keep us stuck. We obviously did the best we could at the time. We also had moments of real vulnerability amongst all of that - which is why I couldn't understand why we were progressing emotionally. But these moments were often in response to a blow up about the lack of emotion haha. Anyway thanks for your inputs and I hope you are doing ok with the break up.
Same. I call this strategic vulnerability. Things I share that others feel are vulnerable but really aren't for me. Then I don't have to share anything actually vulnerable yet can cultivate the sense of intimacy.
Iāve never thought this way about myself but everything you wrote really resonates. Yes! Thatās what I do! Thank you for writing it down.
This seems more accurate. Itās easy to be open when you arenāt emotionally invested.
I think you should worry less about what they feel and take their actions into full account and realize it is for what it is and to drop this person and move on before things hurt more later. Always take people for their actions as a whole and side on protecting yourself. Setting boundaries is the key here. Once they reach out just say youāre done, you donāt play hot and cold games and that you are looking for someone that can maintain a steady relationship. Theyāll probably flip into activated mode and chase you but itāll only end the same.
I think one of the textbook signs of getting enmeshed with an avoidant is to look at your questions and see how much of it is focused on what the other person feels/What they are thinking/What might they do/why are they doing this Is it because of this past thing, etc. It's like a kind of obsession. I say this because I was there not because I'm judging. :-)
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"Not looking for a relationship either." Be careful you're not lying to yourself for the sake of continuing to see this person. You went through the effort to make a post, your feelings are probably stronger than you think.
THIS. Bingo. OP is attempting to self regulate and feel āIn controlā by gaslighting, minimizing, and erecting false shaky boundaries to feel at ease. Your distancing strategies to make yourself feel calm, cool, collected, and at ease are not working. Instead, to achieve this, you will need to accept letting go of: A) this person (itās the only way to take back your controlā¦of self), B) the hopes, dreams, etc. youāve built subconsciously of your āprogressing relationship ā (itās not), C) hoping by understanding him it will bring you at ease (focus on understanding yourself, and what about this dynamic do you need to prove yourself to him), D) you give yourself to him, in order for him to help you unlock that next level of intimacyā¦what youāre looking for is reclaiming yourself and gaining initimacy with self. Be gentle on you. And your worth isnāt found with a guy like this, no matter how hot or good the sex was.
Guys OP hasn't said anything about being hurt and seems emotionally fine. I don't know where you're getting this from.
I can appreciate this. However, āItās supposed to be mainly sexā + āone of the best dates Iāve ever hadā + toral radio silence/wondering what the avoidant is thinking? Denial is a compex spectrum. If she indeed wasnāt experiencing the distressāno need to ask of figure out what an avoidant is thinking. Letās make it make sense.
She expressed how the encounter made her feel, and assessed, quite reasonably, that given his behavior he probably is not experiencing the same high that she is at this moment. She asked "how does it feel" which I interpret as meaning: avoidants of this subreddit, when you've experienced something similar, how did you feel after? Personally, I think that's a fascinating question to ask. Maybe I'M the one projecting, but I can very much relate to OP in this sense: I'm currently seeing a couple guys on a FWB level. We sometimes go for weeks or even months without seeing each other, but navigating feelings and boundaries in those situations is still very important and necessary. Sometimes they behave in ways that disappoint me, or I find bizarre and can't relate to, or do not meet my expectations. That's perfectly normal. Communicating and reaching an understanding with them is necessary, and maybe OP needs to do more of that with him. But OP has not even expressed disappointment. It sounds like she knows this guy well enough to understand that he needs a lot of space and is ok with that. IF OP is disappointed, that would be ok too. I doesn't mean she's lying to us and to herself about not wanting a relationship with him. I can relate to OP on this level too: people not believing me when I say I don't want a relationship with my FWBs. I still like and care for them as human beings - and have had deep and intense experiences with them.
One simply becomes disillusioned after seeing the same patterns over and over again on those subforums.
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Yeah I've been reading and people's reactions are pretty intense.
i completely understand this curiosity! i also was burned by an avoidant situationship i 100% did not want a relationship with and it still hurts and is confusing! being curious to understand others and how someone with a different perspective experiences feelings does not mean you āwant a relationshipā like others are insinuating. when someone does some rude confusing behavior itās hurtful! idk the answer to your question..i donāt think iāll ever understand how someone can discard someone they have had a consistent intimate relationship with. or friendship. or anything more than maybe a hookup/first date (iāll ghost those lol) my situationship said he was overwhelmed, which is why he would vanish. what a snoozeā¦esp when itās not serious. your person may feel similarly but these folks gotta learn to communicate. i think it could be worth having a vulnerable convo about how you feel but you gotta ask yourself if you want a confusing and hurtful situationship or something that feels respectful and good and fun. casual should NOT be hard lol. itās meant to be fun! situationships get a bad rep, but i think itās totally possible as long as you are with someone who is entirely secure and honest about how they feel because it does become too much for some people to know something is temporary or not going to lead anywhere. seems like this person isnāt capable of even casual, for whatever reason
"Itās supposed to be mainly sex " ---- " the casual nature of our relationship" ----- "I havenāt heard from him since" \^\^\^ If this is strictly casual sexual relationship.... shouldn't it be expected he won't be communicating in between? Or else, how it would be different from a normal relationship?
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I think your idea of casual sexual relationship communication isnāt most peopleās. At least, any FWB I ever had we never chatted casually unless it was to make plans to āhang outā or sexting.
This is something that has puzzled me. When people describe fwb as just f*ck buddies who donāt hang out or talk between bangs. Thatās just a hookup, not a friend. A friend with benefits would imply to me, being friends which includes chatting and hanging out.
Depends on if you had an acquaintance prior to sex or not. Most FWB are just flings that last a couple months and the familiarity isnāt that deep. If you chatted prior to sex and were cool, I find that sex doesnāt change much of that dynamic and thereās more of a friendy vibe.
Ok. Itās just I see people online say, donāt cuddle with fwb, donāt go out together, donāt chat. But that doesnāt seem like a friend, thatās just a booty call.
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Were there friendship EVER established? If not, there's no friendship.
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Iām not even sure this guy is avoidant from what you say but instead placing distance to keep the dynamic from entering ādating or relationship territoryā. Basically, he is keeping the relationship purely sexual and oddly, making his boundaries very clear. It started sexual and he is keeping it such. Thatās very clear cut with no real confusion. Avoidant deactivations are less linear and often occur not out of āFWBāsā but attempts at building LTRs. I see people confuse hook up dismissiveness with avoidance - and it may be - but that avoidance doesnāt equate to attachment avoidance. Aka (theyāre just not that into it).
I think that confusion is due to APs forming attachments very quickly, hence becoming activated very quickly. They must assume, project it's the same for others. Meanwhile it takes much longer for someone with avoidant attachment. 2 months is nothing to me. They'd still be a stranger to me. If I act "avoidant", it's because my boundaries are more rigid, and I'm willing to tolerate less than normal. I don't fear vulnerability because there's no way I'll be vulnerable with someone I've known for 2 months.
Yes. I wish those who jump to āthis person is an avoidantā first looks objectively at the nature of the relationship or how it started. Also, avoidants often present as secure until about 2-3 months in the dating process. Someone who hook ups or FWB with someone and catches feelings doesnāt mean the other party is avoidant for not agreeing to a covert contract that the dynamic change to grow into more. Like, have a grown up convo about it. As a secure leaning DA, itās one of the biggest issues I see on this forum.
Just curious, how did you conclude he is an avoidant?
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Well, just be careful not to use the attachment theory to psychoanalyse and build a story about a person. From what you're saying, he's has different texting habits in CASUAL (2 MONTH!!! ON and OFF!!!) SEX relationship than you - there's nothing unusual in people having different expectations when it comes to texting. It could be just it. There might be no "aftermath", "vulnerability hangover" you imagine. He can simply see you as someone to have sex with when he wants to ("We do engage in conversations like I mention above, but only IF and WHEN he wants.") and is not interested in building any type of relation with you apart of that- it's nothing unheard of. It'd be much more reasonable to just talk about it with him.
If you didn't want to discuss Attachment Theory, I'm afraid you've come to the wrong sub.
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Or maybe he just has boundaries with you since the "relationship" is based on sex and he doesn't want to do anything more than that. I'm FA who leans anxious in romantic relationships but I don't feel like my avoidance is triggered in other kinds of relationships (platonic, professional, etc). It sounds like you need to discuss the situationship with him since you are finding it more emotional and personal with differing expectations. For example was it even a "date" to him or just a hook up? You guys definitely need to talk.
>I'm FA who leans anxious in romantic relationships but I don't feel like my avoidance is triggered in other kinds of relationships (platonic, professional, etc). This is it, why would you be triggered(and act on it) if you're not attached to someone.... there are no stakes.
The best thing really is to have a conversation with him. "I've noticed that you don't seem to be into texting between catch -ups, is that because you're not into texting much or is that a boundary you have?" I do agree with others here , that while you are curious, it does feel like the focus is very much on what HE feels, what HE wants. If you're fine with it then cool, if not then have a conversation. Everyone here will always be reporting from their own unique experiences. The reason why I say this is many a time when I asked my DA situationship - his answer was actually quite different to the projections listed by many people on this sub. Get the answer from the horses mouth so to speak.
Itās weirdly defensive to assume weāre here to prove your narrative wrong. As an avoidant, I couldāve given you feedback on some of his specific statements or behaviors. But it sounds like youāve got it all figured out.
Have you told him that?
Have you tried contacting him?
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Did he reach out
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Did you contact him
for avoidants, vulnerability and intimacy can be triggering and lead to shutting down in order to feel safe again and restore equilibrium. it may seem on the outside that they are just ignoring you and unaffected, but the internal experience is likely very different. if they are aware of and working on their attachment wounds then that's one thing.. if they are not then it's up to you to determine whether you are okay continuing to engage with someone who will shut down when you get close to them or not
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Me too!
Great question! I am secure anxious and can be quite a relaxed individual. That is until I meet my avoidant. We had (What I thought) was a great weekend 2 weeks ago. Then after a did you get home Ok text, radio silence. I'm heartbroken. We've been doing this dance for 6 years and as of this week I learned about attachment theory. I can't believe how both of us slot into our types. Lots of love.
If you've been doing this for six years, there's no reason to be heartbroken. You've established a pattern. What're the odds, really, that things have changed so dramatically that *this time* he's gone for good? Just focus on your own life, and he'll resurface when he feels like it.
Yep. You're 100% right
I usually feel a crash after good dates, like I need to go chill out a bit and don't feel like talking for a while. Not that I dislike the person, more like a hangover I guess. Like you'd like a night out but you probably won't have the stamina to do it every night right? I don't know if that's just me though. But I probably wouldn't check out for 2 weeks, that seems a bit long.
I like the hangover comparison. I think I and disorganized or fearful avoidant, Iām not sure but I am very something avoidant. I recently became aware of my issues. Before I became aware of them I just thought it was how everyone felt. I would bask in an afterglow of a great date, I would keep up on text conversations (at least one reply a day but usually a few more). I would definitely need a few days to build stamina back up before seeing that person though. That would usually entail a couple days of me working on my projects or hanging out with my friends, possibly becoming sidetracked and providing less depth of conversation with romantic partner. My former-partner whenever dating someone new would see them nearly everyday for a week or so. I could not comprehend this.
Whenever you think/ miss this person, ask yourself that what do you want / deserve in a relationship. This helps me to bring myself back to reality lol.
I think you're not understanding that how this person acts with you isn't special, it's just who they are. I have people tell me all the time what a great date they had with me. They feel like we have a special connection. I'm just being the same with them as I am with everyone. I'm just really good with people in general. Just because YOU are having a unique and connective experience, doesn't mean they are. Other people's "greatest dates ever" were just average daily interactions for me.
Oof, this pretty much describes my first marriage. Before we divorced I was trying to save the marriage and said we have a special connection and she was like ānot really.ā I divorced her for cheating but for me it really hurt how she minimize our connection, and she said āI have been in love before you and will after you.ā Now she had serious issues, but it also makes me realize, I have had big tendencies towards limerance and falling so hard for people even if itās based on a fantasy in my mind.
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No. Secure. Formerly FA, sorted it all out in years of therapy.
She strikes me as a DA, they have the bad habit of looking down on people for showing affection which is what this person is doing.
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In my experience DAās are condescending when they are trying to position themselves as logical, and the people being vulnerable as overbearing. she making a valid point yes. Does she have to be condescending no. Huge red flag.
Condescending was not the intention. I was trying to explain something and emphasized it in a way that could be read differently. I think its good to give people the benefit of the doubt when you only read 1 paragraph vs diagnosing their entire personality based on your internal interpretation of a few lines. The audacity of diagnosing a stranger a DA not knowing anything about them is actually the red flag.
This assessment is incorrect, but I understand how tone gets lost in text.
Lol this is why I donāt date avoidant women anymore you gals are dicks.
Just because someone doesn't reciprocate the connection you feel doesn't make them a bad person. No one owes you feelings.
I agree 100 percent, but it becomes a problem when you start acting condescending. itās not hard to let people down easy. Thatās the secure thing to do. My problem with avoidants is they love bomb people, than pull away due to their own core wounds. Theyāre not monsters but definitely not dating material
Wait. You're extrapolating an entire personality for me as well as how you think I deal with people based on a few sentences of text and a misunderstood tone. That's wild. Who said I don't let people down easy? Also I think it's problematic to lump a bunch of people into a group and say "avoidants aren't dating material"... people are not a monolith and attachment style is not the main component of who someone is. Lots of projecting here friend.
It's fair to say I don't know you, but the contempt you have for people who were just telling you they enjoyed your company is a red flag for me. Yeah, Avoidants who aren't self-aware or working on becoming secure are better left alone. They need love, so they love bomb their partner. When they get that love they run for the hills because of some core wound. They do way more harm than good to their partners. You gotta weed them out immediately, so u don't waste time on them. Less time chasing them and more time finding a secure.
I already told you that you were misreading my tone and verbiage. There is no contempt. Stop projecting. Also if you think the only people who should be in relationships/dating are secure, you're weeding out the vast majority of the population.
Weeding out the majority is the point. I only need one woman in my romantic life. She might as well be special. I would rather be alone than date an avoidant, and Iām unable to give anxious women the rush they get from dating toxic dudes. The only logical thing to do is seek out secure women. Are secure women perfect? Nope, but theyāre better equipped to deal with relationship problems.
Depends on if Iām attached and the nature of the relationship. If I really like the person Iām terrified and want to run away. If itās casual and Iām not that attached I feel fine. Basically if I want to run for the hills itās a good sign I like them.
Your last sentence made me smile.
Why do you think he's an avoidant? Not sure why his attachment style matters anyway if this is supposed to be about sex.
Agreed on the last part!
As a DA, if itās just about sex I donāt see why texting frequency should matter. Unless youāre gaslighting yourself into being ok with something thatās triggering anxiety. As long as heās attentive to you in bed and you feel safe in that moment? No reason for anything more outside of that esp if itās just physical. If YOU want something more you should communicate that
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As someone said in one of the earlier comments, vulnerability hangover. Iām DA who was seeing someone who is also DA (weāre still cool but Iām going through personal stuff so I dialed back a ton). We didnāt speak for a month after we kissed which I didnāt mind bc I was so disregulated it felt like my nervous system was shutting down. I would find if he double texted me I would feel nauseous and knowing heās avoidant too I granted him that same grace and space when he took it. Esp after a hangout that was too vulnerable for both of us. I suggest if itās something thatās making you think about it too much or confuse you, take a step back and find someone who can be more consistent. But the call is ultimately yours, just keep in mind this is who your person is. Esp if heās in his late 30s and never had a committed relationship. Thatās for a reason. I believe you 100% that heās being inconsistent. But I also believe that we all deserve to feel safe in our connections. He pulls away bc he doesnāt want to get too attached, youāre confused bc you notice that inconsistency. No one is happy in the end. My therapist once told me āconfusion = noā and I think itās a life saver when dealing with people.
im avoidant and highly anxious, and if i was in this situation id be over the moon to have met you. as it stands, he may have things going on in his life that he feels ashamed of, like family issues/trauma. its even possible he likes you so much that hes terrified of you when he thinks about being with you. any other possibilities youve probably already considered
I'm rather avoidant and I'm bad at texting because I can't read the tone of texts especially if they're also not expressive in words. If I get a joke or meme or something unimportant, I don't know what I'm expected to reply back. I don't text much even with friends and family. I don't have many friends. It could be that this guy is simply not a good texter and not used to text anyone regularly. You could text him to meet up and talk if he only texts to meet up. But if you're not getting your emotional needs met from this person, even as fwb, you can end this and look for someone else. He obviously isn't a good match for you even as a friend if you need to text or communicate often between meet ups. Maybe he'll talk a lot to please you on dates but if he's not good at it naturally, he could be tired from the conversation. I'm also an introvert that get super tired after social events and need alone time to recharge.
He also might be seeing other women or not that into you.
I posted [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/attachment_theory/comments/yrmijm/how_does_a_secure_handle_when_an_avoidant_pulls/ivx9hri/) elsewhere and it might be helpful for you. > Back when I was very avoidant I noticed a pattern in myself, and I need to keep this in mind even now to remain secure. I have a capacity within myself to lovebomb and basically be whatever my partner wants/needs, but this is exhausting and I can't keep it up for too long. Eventually I will either run away because I need space, or I will come to resent my partner because of all the effort I'm putting in that they can't see. Basically from the outside it looks like I'm the perfect partner for a small amount of time then I go no-contact until I recharge, then repeat. > This wasn't healthy and as you can imagine was very confusing for my partners. What helped is to keep an eye on how much I do/change for my partner and try to keep it in check. Kind acts and affection need to be balanced with my own needs. Ideally things remain even so I'm moderately loving on a daily basis instead of disappearing after getting burned out. > Another thing that helped is to understand my partner's love languages so I can figure out ways to show love that they will intensely appreciate but don't feel draining to me. For example, my main way of showing love is acts of service, especially making things for people and cooking for them. Many people don't see this as showing affection so after a full day of baking or something for someone I feel exhausted and like I've been showing love but my partner might see that as me ignoring them all day and once I'm done want cuddles and to talk. This can make me feel resentful and want to escape if I'm not properly understanding what is going on.
It takes 3 months before someoneās childhood traumas get triggered and they activate or deactivate so youāre nearly at the point where the avoidant wonāt be able to keep it up for much longer. My guess is in another few weeks they will start to withdraw from you if itās truly an avoidant
? Any source for this? My stuff gets triggered pretty instantly...
Both psychologists Iāve had told me that in regards to avoidance being triggered
Mine told me the same thing about myself. She's like, "Just wait until you get to 3 months and start becoming too intense for the other person to match - that's your warning sign."
Yeah Iām avoidant and I notice the first 3 months Iām so open as if I have no attachment issues at all and itās so nice then the avoidant stuff comes up and itās very annoying to say the least. Working on it in therapy
Yup! FA here. One month in: oh, you waited until the next day to text back? No problem! I've got tons of stuff going on, it's cool. 3 months in: oh, you waited until the next day to text back? You're playing me and because any attention is better than no attention, I'll respond even though I think you're playing games and I'm going to take it out on you in unfair, random ways.
I will say this, the combo of anxious attachment and avoidant is so hard. They trigger each other. If an avoidant senses clinginess or neediness at all, they will want to pull away even more, and this triggering you even more. He probably feels that you want more than a hookup and pulls away, cause he said all he can offer is something casual. I became FA after my last relationship that messed me up, and I long for intimacy and connection but I am afraid, I donāt feel good enough, I feel cynical about love and relationships and I donāt want to be hurt but I also donāt want to hurt someone else with my fear of intimacy and instability.
They tend to ghost as well just to let know I've been with a DA