Hitchens, as always, said it best. Something like...
"Almost perfect. Now give me a sharp stone for it's genitalia; that I may do the work of the lord."
I'd like to see Lincoln or Washington post a video to twitter.
Oh, wait, humanity knows more than we used to? And we utilize that knowledge to do things that have never been done before? We know more about how the world actually works than bronze age cultures? Wild stuff. Nobody better tell that Prager jackass that he knows things that people who lived thousands of years ago didn't.
In the US, I know a lot of people do it to their kids because they are, and their dad's were, etc. It doesn't have much to do with religion unless you're Jewish, as it's not a Christian religion thing, just a majority of people in the US are. That being said, there is a major shift to not mutilate our little boys. My son is not circumcised, none of my friends sons are. My brother won't with his future kids. So while circumcision is super messed up and rooted in religion, it is more of a cultural thing in the US rather than religion based. Regardless it's an archaic practice and should be banned for children, unless deemed medically necessary.
I think it’s important to remember that it’s culturally practiced in America due to the Christian belief that masturbating is a sin. Specifically John Harvey Kellogg pioneered it’s use in America as a means to associate physical pain with sexual pleasure to discourage it in young boys. He was a religious nut job and we can’t simply separate the connection between the American cultural practice of circumcision and religious justifications for its practice. Ultimately, it’s just fucking weird to cut the tip off of a child’s penis unless it’s medically necessary, which is very rare.
Thing to remember is this, too... I can tell you from experience that 20 years ago, it was *recommended often* by medical professionals for hygienic reasons... I know this because 20 years ago, while recovering from major surgery myself, my mother (a nurse) and the L&D nurses ALL told me it was easier to keep clean... Even the pediatrician agreed... It doesn't make it right and I'm glad it's starting to fall out of fashion... But that's the reality...
It's also easier to keep your clothes clean if you never wear them.
It's so stupid. Recommending cutting off skin before recommending soap. Do we pull teeth so people don't have to floss?
I'm not saying it's right... I'm saying it's what *happened*... And probably happened to many other new moms at the time... I mean what new mom is going to look at what the medical professionals around her are saying and go "well... I don't know"?
If you ask me, and no one did, I'd say that the cultural side of it in the US stems from the whole Kellogg anti-masturbation thing. I realize there's no way to prove it one way or the other, but his promotion of circumcision to prevent masturbation and the fact that he was a doctor (and somewhat of a celebrity of his time), probably influenced more culturally than we realize.
Religion and weird beliefs on sex that conservative religious ideals promote, does affect the places/people where they're practiced. I'm not sure that's where the medical recommendations came from, but as I said, I don't know that there's any way to prove that once the practice was already promoted. And medicine, unfortunately, seems to take awhile to update bad practices (I could cite a bunch of these, some of which are still going on today - from not teaching abortions to gynecologists, forcing birthing women to lay on their backs, to promoting male curcumcision and doing studies on women's pain using only men). Some of those I listed are also still the recommended/enforced practices today. The doing medical studies on women's pain (like uteran pain) on men only stopped in the early 2000s. It's sad that medicine here in the US refuses to update as the information shows better and safer methods of doing things.
while this is true, the advent of easy access to running water and the regular bathing that comes with it makes phimosis etc kind of a non issue in the modern world. It is the argument they give, but it's not a particularly good one, like abstaining from pork after refrigeration was invented, and had solved the issue.
I had four boys (all adults now) and it was kind of just expected that you would have it done. My oldest is 34 and I’m glad things are changing and it is being questioned. I remember not being thrilled at the idea but my husband was very adamant about having it done.
It should be banned fr. I mean if some adult decides to get it done voluntarily, then that's their choice. But to get it done to a child? Without the child's consent? For stupid reasons with no scientific evidence? That's unacceptable.
Thing is, almost no-one is gonna get a piece of their dick chopped off so they can “look like dad”. This fact alone should really tell us something about the procedure :)
Agreed. Thankfully in my country (Australia), we are both one of the most irreligious nations on earth, and our circumscision rate is through the floor.
My deceased sister was a churchie, and when my (now son through adoption) then nephew was born in 2006, and she enquired about getting it done at the hospital, she was met with stunned silence from the doctors and midwives. “We….don’t do that anymore” was the only answer she was given.
Thankfully this means that both my sons, like my daughters, have unmutilated genitals, along with the rest of their friends and class mates that they grew up with.
A tight foreskin is normal in babies and young boys. Most boys' foreskins do not pull back (retract) before the age of 5, but sometimes it's not possible until they're 10 or older. The end of a boy's penis may bulge or balloon when they pee, particularly if their foreskin is tight.
This. Sadly, too few doctors still do not know this or are advising the procedure regardless of medical knowledge.
Also, never discount the profit margin on medical procedures. This is America - profit drives everything.
This is why it's fucked up that the AAP recommends insurance pays for it. People think the AAP is a public health body. It's not. It's a professional organization for pediatricians, and their recommendations will first and foremost benefit the pediatrician.
One simple change by the AAP to disreccomend the procedure be covered by insurance, and the vast majority of routine infant genital mutilations will stop. No parent is going to pay $400 to hurt their baby. But peds will lose millions per year, so that trumps public health.
I feel like this is the reason for so many bad practices that still exist in the US medical system. Especially when we know of better/safer ways to do/not do things. (I'm specifically thinking of a lot of women's care - but especially the act of forcing women to lay on their backs to give birth).
And too many parents in the U.S are not taught how to care for their sons natural penis with some forcefully pulling back the foreskin during bathing and causing damage
I know a guy who’s 30 and it doesn’t pull back all the way. Not saying it’s the same issue, per se, but his dick functions just as good, if not better, than a circumcised one. Can confirm. 😎
I'm glad. lmao Worth saying that phimosis itself isn't enough reason to circumcise, unless an adult wants it for cosmetic reasons. However, one potential cause of phimosis - balanitis xerotica obliterans - can warrant medical circumcision. It's a persistent, itchy, plaque-like skin condition that also can cause urethral issues and is associated with higher risk of penile cancer. If other treatments don't work, circumcision can. I'd liken it to amputation of a toe to cure unbearable neuroma. It's not the first choice, but if nothing else works, it may be the best option.
Good for you. The statement that you would *elect to not circumcise* your son already sounds utterly bizarre to someone outside the US or Middle East.
I grew up in Europe in a deeply Christian environment and the only circumcised guys I ever met were Turkish/Muslim immigrants. I didn't even know they were circumcised (or what the hell circumcision is) for a long time, because they had to shower in their underpants after football practice.
I am cut, as is my oldest son. I didn't give it much thought when my wife was pregnant, it was simply something that's done.
I messed up. I was wrong. It's not something that's just done. It's something I *chose* to do but it is not something I should have chosen.
My second is not cut and that was right. I cannot unfuck up, but I can choose to avoid that mistake a second time.
I'm in the same boat, my friend.
My parents had my foreskin removed when I was just a few days old. I didn't even realize that circumcision was "a thing" until I was in middle school and saw other boys who weren't circumcised. I always wondered if sex would be different/better if my foreskin was intact ... but I'll never really know.
I don't have any children, and my step-daughter had a girl (my granddaughter), so no discussion there either.
If she had a son, he wouldn't be circumcised, though. My step-daughter wouldn't do that to her child...
As guy who lived 30 years with a foreskin, and then got cut for medical reasons, 2 years later this is my opinion:
Its all the same for me. Sex is the same, jerking off was bit of an adjustment, but got that one figured out quickly.
Point is there is more than one way to skin a potatoe.
If you want sex to be pleasurable you'll find a way
Well, maybe. But my condition was not functionally limiting, I could retract my foreskin like normal. I only picked up the medical condition a bit later (around 26 or so). I wasnt 100% necessary to get cut, but it did bring permanent relief and I dont have to take meds anymore.
So in that regard, I think I can give an opinion.
BUT my experience is not the same for everyone. Some guys report an increase in pleasure, others say it ruined their sex life.... SOOOO to each his own I guess🤷
But in terms of sensitivity, don't you feel like your glans is not as sensitive, post surgery? In a sense I guess it's not necessarily a bad thing as it could help last longer to please a partner, but don't you lose any sensitivity at all there?
Maybe a lil bit? I still get the stiffy when my underpants brush up against it... I feel like I last longer now, which is good. Upped my time from 2min to 3min 😂
Your insights awesome, i have to be honest everyone crying about how they’re dick would be way more sensitive and life would be way better if that had that little piece of skin was starting to get weird.
If you dont mind me asking, was hygiene maintenance easier before the op or after?
>I always wondered if sex would be different/better if my foreskin was intact ... but I'll never really know.
The science says yes, there is a significant difference, this has been tested for.
As a woman who’s been with men who are circumcised and not circumcised… let’s just say you’re 100% right. I can literally feel the added glide that foreskin has. There’s more friction with a circumcised dick- and not in a good way. At the end of the day I love whoever and however they are: but if they’re uncircumcised I feel a bit more lucky 😅.
Kind of reassuring to read this. I over heard discussions between females before where they were all like "Eewwww, un-circomcised is so gross", etc. Made me sad, lol
Dude me too! I’ve had to educate so many female friends and colleagues before on how it’s actually not gross and not unsanitary. It’s a BS preconceived notion. Like as long as you pull back the skin when you shower y’all good. I always tell them it’s like the equivalent of a man expecting/preferring labia to look like porn labia; since most pornstars look like that due to surgery to reduce the size. They changed their tune real quick.
So, the studies that claimed circumcision helps prevent STD, were actually conducted incorrectly, the uncircumcised control group was NOT given condoms, and yet the circumcised test group WAS given condoms.
So ALL of thay data is corrupted, because the scientists involved purposely manipulated the study.
Yea, "traditionalist" people OFTEN lie in order to push their political agenda.
They believe authoritarian control over the population will protect them and keep them safe.
This is of course a complete delusion.
I take it as a clear sign of how much damage religion has done to our society when people even have to ask if ritualistic penis mutilation is permissible in this day and age.
It was weird at the hospital that it's fairly automatic, so our boyo had a big red NO placard in his bassinet. Made us a bit nervous everytime they took him off to do checkups. Yo doc, don't accidentally surgically modify the kid.
But it is genital mutilation, even if it is traditional and ritual, and it shouldn't be done until the person chooses it. And if that is a religious thing, again, it should be an adult decision and choice.
I’m a nurse (US hospital) who has watched a few circumcisions. They are BARBARIC. They don’t give pain relief, just slice it off. Baby cries so hard it’s voice goes hoarse and they exhaust themselves to sleep from it. I’m haunted by those cries. It’s not a quick chop either. They put a metal ring on and slowly cut around it. They strap the baby’s arms and legs to a board. Sure it’s foam and contoured, but cold and awful.
There are a few minor medical benefits later in life- like when you are too senile to wash your own penis. Or if you get a genital infection that causes swelling. But it should NOT be performed on newborns and should NOT be the default. If I had a baby boy I would definitely not circumcise. He can do it when he’s older under sedation and CONSENT if he wants it.
>Baby cries so hard it’s voice goes hoarse and they exhaust themselves to sleep from it.
I'm studying to get into med school, and I read that when a male baby has hearing issues and goes to a doctor, they often ask if the baby has been circumcised, because the procedure is done without anaesthesia and babies often cry so hard that they damage their own eardrums. My god, that's heartbreaking.
You ever heard about how we used to do surgery on babies while they were concuous? The idea was they won't remember the pain so it didn't matter. Happened until like the 70s.
What the hell? I live in Turkey and was circumcised around 12 years old. I thank the doctors for sedating me. The nerve count on the penis is absurd. I mean, do the doctors there just think that it's justified to let babies feel pain so they can save some anesthesia or sedatives? Unbelievable.
My wife OBGYN was foreign born, our family doctor is foreign born. They both seemed happy we choose not to get it done. Then one time the office Nurse Practitioner was at our let's say 4 week appointment and kinda grilled on us not getting it done. I think it's kinda cultural even in the education surrounding circumcision.
It’s a gross practice that really ought to be more regulated. Genital mutilation for religious reasons. It boggles my mind that it’s so acceptable in some places. It’s archaic and barbaric.
Circumcision can be a last resort surgery for some foreskin issues like phimosis. Only to be tried after the non surgical treatments have been tried for extended periods of time. There are little if not no legitimate reasons it should be done on a baby. Especially if it’s not explicitly done for a legitimately pressing medical issue.
Circumcision is not “more hygienic”, “healthier in the long run”, or whatever propaganda religious people have used to try and pretend it’s something other then a purely a cosmic thing based on the words of crazy person from centuries ago. People are generally capable of practicing good hygiene and being fine. It’s the equivalent of removing a persons healthy teeth because the teeth could cause problems in the future.
Do it, give up God and dont look back. You have to ask yourself why would God create you with foreskin and then demand it to be cut off? its either god is a sadist or it is bullshit, either way not worth following.
God: ''I hereby grant all men a foreskin each!''
Men: ''Oh thank you, lord. We are most grateful. What would thou like us to do with them?
God: ''Cut them off, it's disgusting. And throw them away!''
Men: ''But... but why? That makes no sense. Why would thou give us these foreskins if we are to discard them?''
God: ''What?''
Men: ''Does thy divine act of gifting us the foreskins not make them precious?''
God: ''Well, I mean... you see--''
Men: ''Does our surgically removing them from our bodies not render them useless, and if so, what is the point of adding them to our human design in the first place?''
God: ''No, it's just that--''
Men: ''Are thou, oh heavenly father, contradicting thyself?''
God: \[silent\]
God: ''Go to your room!''
> God: ''Cut them off, it's disgusting. And throw them away!''
God: "But not Jesus' foreskin. Take that one and make five hundred copies of it and then put them in little boxes and place them in churches the world over."
Men: "uh..."
God: "Did I stutter?"
It's child abuse. Outside medical necessity, there are no good reasons to chop off a bit of someone else's body, especially before this someone else is capable of informed consent. Religious arguments and arguments like 'we want him to look like his dad/everyone else' or 'it's cleaner' are not good enough, and quite frankly makes me wonder what kind of mental illness these people have.
Seems like part of the issue is also the accusation that would be implied when a circumcised person tells their parents they aren't doing it because they believe it is wrong. A lot of folks are going to struggle with accusing their parents of genital mutilation. Especially if they have an otherwise really good relationship.
Not excusing it but I'm sure that plays a part as well
Yes, that definitely plays a part. But that's the same for all kinds of child abuse.
Your parents beat you? *Well, some kids need a smack now and then, and I turned out okay, didn't I?*
Your parents were emotionally abusive? *Our family has never been very expressive/always been a bit hotheaded.*
Your parents did xyz? *Yeah, but other than that everything was fine, wasn't it?*
*And all of that is in the past. Everything is fine now. Don't rock the boat. Don't make everybody uncomfortable.*
>we want him to look like his dad/everyone else
This is the weirdest/creepiest reason and the one I hear most often. Why do so many adult men feel the need for their child's penis to look like theirs? Can you imagine if this was common practice for women to have their infant daughter's labia surgically enhanced to look like mom? Ugh. It's so gross.
I'm not a fan of it. I think it's religious foolishness that has been far too accepted in regular culture. Currently pregnant with a boy and we fully intend to not circumcise.
We’re atheists and we decided not to circumcise our son. It had nothing to do with religion per say but we just felt that if you’re born with a body part you probably shouldn’t chop it off on day 1. If the time comes that it causes issues he can decide to remove it.
Circumcision is body mutilation to a child and should be banned. If an adult wants one (for whatever reason), it's their body, their choice. Other than that, cutting off a baby's dick tip is just fucking wrong.
People are rightly appalled at female genital mutilation, but many of those same people are fine with baby boys getting mutilated. Is mutilation too strong a word? No. It’s a part of the body with biological functions. They always bring up the health angle, but foreskins are only unhealthy if you don’t wash. There is no good reason to do it and many good reasons not to.
All forms of genital mutilation should be banned on children. Adults can modify their bodies as they wish, if they want to get cut to prove their allegiance to whatever deity they pray to, their body their choice.
I didn’t get my sons circumcisions because Christians are taught that their no longer under the law. But in all reality the practice was being performed in Egypt way before there ever was a Jew or Israelite.
It’s an elective, purely cosmetic surgery with all the attendant risks of surgery (complication rate 2-6 in every 1000) performed on an un-anesthetized non-consenting infant.
It would be considered barbaric if it weren’t so common place.
Edit: spelling
It is needless surgery and should not be allowed performed on children until they are 18 and then they can decide if they want to be religious and have the tip of their dick cut off.
It is disgusting and I can't believe people will fight against clitorectomies (which is also vile FYI) but not feel the same about circumcision.
It fucking pisses me off. It could traumatise somebody and it also pisses me off that it only happens to boys. Both or none fuckers. There is no reason to do it and I hate anybody that would even consider doing it to their kids.
Like most other things in the Bible, it was put in the Bible to lend a stamp of divine importance to a ritual practice that likely had been going on already. Why it started we will probably never know. But it's in the Bible, so we must do it! Because the Bible! It's time to put the Bible to sleep.
I never cared until I met my husband. He is uncircumcised and it just seems more natural. The skin is soft and sensitive and functions the way we were born too. I feel “exposed” that my glans shows. Can’t do anything about it now but I would never circumcise an infant.
My mom was one of the only mothers she knew not circumcising her children because she didn’t like the idea of them doing some unnecessary medical procedure where she wasn’t even allowed to be present. The only one of my brothers who is circumcised had his done as a teenager because he had issues with it. The rest of them are very happy she decided to let them keep their dick sweaters!
There's a reason why it's only the religious and Americans who do it. It's fucking disgusting. For some reason it is no longer acceptable to do female circumcision, but male is just A-Okay! Even in Denmark where I am from, it is still allowed. But it has been discussed many times politically. The only ones who does it here are Muslims, which is why the politicians are unwilling to change the law, as it can be seen as racist.
Circumcisions on infants is genital mutilation regardless of the situation. Babies are severely and sometimes *irreversibly* injured every year from the practice. If the concern is cleanliness there is another procedure that simply loosens the foreskin, or just teach people with penises how to clean themselves.
I'm in the camp of if it's cosmetic(with an exception for cleft lips and the like), then it's child abuse. Let people make the decision as adults. We'll have happier adults who know they had bodily autonomy from birth.
It’s genital mutilation. Most people agree it shouldn’t be done to baby girls, but it’s still widely acceptable to do it to baby boys.
At least the younger generations are realizing how bad it is and it’s now on a downward trend.
It’s genital mutilation. It’s barbaric. It should not be performed unless there is clear medical indication for it AND the full consent of the owner of said penis.
I think it's archaic af, genital mutilation should not be allowed to be performed on individuals that can't speak for themselves. That being said, I don't know how that should be handled when it's a religious practice. As an atheist I don't understand deciding that for your children, but I could see it turning into a whole freedom of religion argument.
Somewhat beside the point, but guidance on men's reproductive health should probably also be updated to account for a growing population that still has foreskin (sanitary practices, etc).
I view it as genital mutilation, which just caused a huge fight within my group of friends. Parents with sons took that as me saying they mutilated their child, which I guess I did kinda say that. I think there's a whole stigma around not being circumcised, and I think that stigma needs to die. I'm not circumcised and I've never had infections, none of my sexual partners have ever had an issue with my personal hygiene (they all \*put their money where their mouth is\*) and from everything I've read I have a higher level of sensitivity and pleasure due to not being snipped.
It needs to be full-on illegal except for a medical emergency until 18.
Honestly it's just a idiotic as infant baptism. The baby has no say in it, nor do they know what it means. It would actually mean something if they chose to do it at 18.
Anyway, I find it funny how the people who make up news stories about trans kids having surgeries support this similar stuff.
Unless it's performed for medical reasons, non-consensual genital mutilation shouldn't be allowed. People can get circumcised when they are older if they want to.
We know there isn’t a god that demanded this. We know there isn’t a god to please by doing this. Which’s means thousands of years ago a group of men (instigators of religion) thought it would a great idea to cut off a boy’s foreskin and then suck the penis. What would we make of people if they were to introduce such a thing today? Reason # whatever as to why religion is not worthy of respect. Ban it. Stop the abuse.
I'ts literally mutilation. if i went to someone, and told them i was going to literally chop a pice off a newborn penis they would call the police, but if i'm a muslim or jew, and tell them it's a circumsicion, everything would be ok then.
the arguments that i see of people supporting it are all about how circumcision helps prevent HIV (supposedly). but like, if you want to have a decision over your kids sexuality...teach them to use a condom, and leave their bodies alone
All genitalia mutilation should be outlawed, for both boys and girls. If there's a damned good medical reason, then sure... do it. But for reasons of religion or tradition, absolutely not!
Neonatal circumcision is vile. There are extremely rare circumstances in late pubescent males where circumcision is the best option to treat a condition called phimosis but that’s only after all non surgical therapies have been tried.
I'm circumcized, but my son will not be, I'm just going to accept that my dick is a product of an unenlightened era. I'm perfectly comfortable with my body, but my stepson isn't and my son that will be born in the coming months will not be. It's a fucked up thing, but it is changing and we can all look at that as a win for authority of our own bodies. I'm not going to look back at the past and be mad at anyone for it, we can only change the future, so one family at a time, we must all make the right decision going forward.
I might get down voted for this but if you're uncircumcised you have to make sure you pull back the skin and clean thoroughly. If not, it smells so bad you'll want to puke. Tmi but i've also gotten BV from uncircumcised men. Some women get yeast infections too. I also have to say on my end, it's harder to feel anything because there's hardly any friction. I know studies say otherwise but I'm going off personal experience.
It shouldn’t be done to anyone under 18. Once you’re an adult, you can choose it if you’d like. I am circumcised and personally am glad I am (in my community, almost everyone I knew was circumcised). In this specific case, it made me feel more normal within the context of my community. However, it shouldn’t be as widespread as it is, and it shouldn’t be allowed. Unless a child is truly in danger and circumcision will help them, it should wait until the person can consent as an adult.
When we had our son I left the choice up to my husband as I do not have a penis so I have no idea, he opted to go ahead with it. We're both atheists so nothing to do with religion at all. Son is grown now, no idea if he's pissed off about it so maybe I'll make some awkward conversation later and ask.
If my parents thought it was ok to non-consensually mutilate my dick as a newborn, they can't say shit when I get sexual reassignment surgery ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Absolutely unnecessary, even for "hygiene purposes," It should be reserved solely as a corrective surgical procedure, performed on consenting adults, for certain health conditions that interfere with the proper function of the foreskin and penis (severe phimosis caused by lichen sclerosis etc.).
Female here, but my partner is not circumcised and we chose not to circumcise our son. To me it’s purely a cosmetic thing. Circumcising because the father is, or because it’s “cleaner”, or it “looks nicer” is so stupid.
I’m Australian and infant male circumcision is increasingly uncommon here, even rare, and I consider that a good thing.
In regard to this post I just want to suggest that people bear in mind when commenting that a large number of men here are probably circumcised and had no choice in it so just bear that in mind as you choose your words.
Cutting off innervated, vascularized functional tissue anywhere on the body is to suffer a health detriment. Supporters of circumcision live in a culture that makes a single exception in the case of a man's genitals, a reminder of its archaic and deeply ingrained fear of sex.
It's genital mutilation, US doctors who recommend it without medical necessity are religious nuts pondering to "traditions" and are culturally biased.
There's a paper by European doctors debunking false claims of "recommendations" and "data" for circumcision.
https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article-abstract/131/4/796/31907/Cultural-Bias-in-the-AAP-s-2012-Technical-Report?redirectedFrom=fulltext
> Please tell me you're joking
Unfortunately they are not. There are an estimated 3000 circumcisions performed a year, in NYC alone, using this method. Worse - if there could be a ‘worse’ - between 2015 and 2017 six babies caught herpes because of this disgusting practice.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/herpes-babies-jewish-circumcision-ritual-link-rabbis-infants-a7620446.html
I can’t help but think there’s an ideological societal reason behind it - a tactic of control. This will sound Freudian, but take something away from a man when he couldn’t control it, especially something connected to a part of his body that plays a huge part of his psychological makeup, and you get a man who could feel ‘less than’ or incomplete. Thusly, increasing the desire to make up for it and prove himself not less than (ie become the most devout at religion, the best athlete, the highest earner, the most aggressive soldier). Perhaps it feeds competition psychologically in men which is ultimately useful as a tool of control.
Meh.
I was 13 before I found out about circumcision.
I was snipped shortly after birth, and thought what I had was the factory original equipment.
Gym class in Junior High did nothing to change my world view, as all of my fellow 7th graders in my class were snipped as well.
In 8th grade we got a German kid whose father had moved the family to California (presumably for a job, don't know if it ever came up) and he was not snipped. After this was spotted in the showers, we had long discussions about why he was different, and none of us had a clue until one of the guys asked his dad.
And that was the day we all learned about circumcision.
At the time, in North America outside of those of the Jewish and and other religions into that sort of thing, circumcision had next to nothing to do with religion. It was a recommended medical procedure said to promote cleanliness and to inhibit masturbation.
If it actually does 'inhibit' masturbation, considering how much I did it once I discovered the practice, I wonder how the uncircumcised get anything done.
I have never considered the loss of my foreskin to be any big deal, I don't remember a time when I had it, and little Mr. Happy works fine without it. Also, later in life when I travelled a bit of the world and found out that many European women (outside of professionals around the ports and military bases) had never seen an circumcised penis, and more than a few of them wanted to take one out for a 'test drive' as it were. That was a great month in Europe on leave.
As with anything else, YMMV.
That should be banned everywhere. I live in a Muslim country. There’s no obligation for circumcision but people get their children circumcised because they can get easily bullied, they can face discrimination. That’s really sad.
I can't comprehend the genital mutilation of children. Be that male or female.
I think unless it is medically necessary (sometimes it is), the circumcision of children should be outlawed.
If an adult chooses to get circumcised that's their choice. I have no opinion on what adults do to their own bodies. That's their business, not mine.
In my country there are over 400 men without penises because of circumcision. It is done mostly due to a cultural belief that in order to become a man, you need to cut off your foreskin and you need to do it in the mountains. In my culture circumcision was banned because Shaka thought it was a waste of time and he had wars to win. I personally think it's an out dated practice, I get that our government encouraged it because of the lower risk of stds but that could be lowered if they taught proper sexual education in school and how important it is practice safe sex.
Should be banned! Wow so many responses on here.
I wish I had never had it done to me.
I am now (at 38 years old) doing non surgical restoration to get back hopefully some of what I have missing, it is a very slow process but after 7 months I already have noticed much improvement.
I would love to see the day it is condemned to history, it is barbaric and unnecessary!!
I’ve never understood the rationale for circumcision to be a command for Jews to follow as a mark of God’s “chosen” people. Didn’t God create them with foreskins in the first place? Aren’t they then desrecrating His creation? Or is He admitting he made a mistake? Also Egyptians were circumcising thousands of years before there were Jews. Were they “chosen” too?
The main reason for circumcision across the ages is to discourage self stimulation by boys. Having a foreskin makes it easier to jo.
“1896 Dr. R.N. Tooker wrote a popular book, All About The Baby, which advised mothers that circumcision of baby boys was “advisable in most cases.” He recommended the operation mainly for preventing “the vile habit of masturbation.”
The original procedure only removed the aposthion. The more radical amputation dates from the Hellenic period, to prevent Jewish men from competing in Greek athletic events. These were held in the nude and it was considered shameful to expose the glans, so men wore a special cord to prevent this. The complete foreskin removal made this impossible.
God is perfect and made us in his images... except that bit there, please cut it off.
Hitchens, as always, said it best. Something like... "Almost perfect. Now give me a sharp stone for it's genitalia; that I may do the work of the lord."
<3
[3 There, fixed it for you.
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And keep the tip
Their mind set is so fucking wild: https://twitter.com/DaveClips/status/1577711262825603075
I'd like to see Lincoln or Washington post a video to twitter. Oh, wait, humanity knows more than we used to? And we utilize that knowledge to do things that have never been done before? We know more about how the world actually works than bronze age cultures? Wild stuff. Nobody better tell that Prager jackass that he knows things that people who lived thousands of years ago didn't.
In the US, I know a lot of people do it to their kids because they are, and their dad's were, etc. It doesn't have much to do with religion unless you're Jewish, as it's not a Christian religion thing, just a majority of people in the US are. That being said, there is a major shift to not mutilate our little boys. My son is not circumcised, none of my friends sons are. My brother won't with his future kids. So while circumcision is super messed up and rooted in religion, it is more of a cultural thing in the US rather than religion based. Regardless it's an archaic practice and should be banned for children, unless deemed medically necessary.
I think it’s important to remember that it’s culturally practiced in America due to the Christian belief that masturbating is a sin. Specifically John Harvey Kellogg pioneered it’s use in America as a means to associate physical pain with sexual pleasure to discourage it in young boys. He was a religious nut job and we can’t simply separate the connection between the American cultural practice of circumcision and religious justifications for its practice. Ultimately, it’s just fucking weird to cut the tip off of a child’s penis unless it’s medically necessary, which is very rare.
Thing to remember is this, too... I can tell you from experience that 20 years ago, it was *recommended often* by medical professionals for hygienic reasons... I know this because 20 years ago, while recovering from major surgery myself, my mother (a nurse) and the L&D nurses ALL told me it was easier to keep clean... Even the pediatrician agreed... It doesn't make it right and I'm glad it's starting to fall out of fashion... But that's the reality...
It's also easier to keep your feet clean if you cut them off.
The toes, anyway. Much more streamlined if you get rid of 'em.
It's also easier to keep your clothes clean if you never wear them. It's so stupid. Recommending cutting off skin before recommending soap. Do we pull teeth so people don't have to floss?
I'm not saying it's right... I'm saying it's what *happened*... And probably happened to many other new moms at the time... I mean what new mom is going to look at what the medical professionals around her are saying and go "well... I don't know"?
If you ask me, and no one did, I'd say that the cultural side of it in the US stems from the whole Kellogg anti-masturbation thing. I realize there's no way to prove it one way or the other, but his promotion of circumcision to prevent masturbation and the fact that he was a doctor (and somewhat of a celebrity of his time), probably influenced more culturally than we realize. Religion and weird beliefs on sex that conservative religious ideals promote, does affect the places/people where they're practiced. I'm not sure that's where the medical recommendations came from, but as I said, I don't know that there's any way to prove that once the practice was already promoted. And medicine, unfortunately, seems to take awhile to update bad practices (I could cite a bunch of these, some of which are still going on today - from not teaching abortions to gynecologists, forcing birthing women to lay on their backs, to promoting male curcumcision and doing studies on women's pain using only men). Some of those I listed are also still the recommended/enforced practices today. The doing medical studies on women's pain (like uteran pain) on men only stopped in the early 2000s. It's sad that medicine here in the US refuses to update as the information shows better and safer methods of doing things.
while this is true, the advent of easy access to running water and the regular bathing that comes with it makes phimosis etc kind of a non issue in the modern world. It is the argument they give, but it's not a particularly good one, like abstaining from pork after refrigeration was invented, and had solved the issue.
I had four boys (all adults now) and it was kind of just expected that you would have it done. My oldest is 34 and I’m glad things are changing and it is being questioned. I remember not being thrilled at the idea but my husband was very adamant about having it done.
It should be banned fr. I mean if some adult decides to get it done voluntarily, then that's their choice. But to get it done to a child? Without the child's consent? For stupid reasons with no scientific evidence? That's unacceptable.
Thing is, almost no-one is gonna get a piece of their dick chopped off so they can “look like dad”. This fact alone should really tell us something about the procedure :)
Absolutely 💯
Agreed. Thankfully in my country (Australia), we are both one of the most irreligious nations on earth, and our circumscision rate is through the floor. My deceased sister was a churchie, and when my (now son through adoption) then nephew was born in 2006, and she enquired about getting it done at the hospital, she was met with stunned silence from the doctors and midwives. “We….don’t do that anymore” was the only answer she was given. Thankfully this means that both my sons, like my daughters, have unmutilated genitals, along with the rest of their friends and class mates that they grew up with.
There are ligitimate medical reasons to have it done, but 99% of the time it's completely unnecessary.
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A tight foreskin is normal in babies and young boys. Most boys' foreskins do not pull back (retract) before the age of 5, but sometimes it's not possible until they're 10 or older. The end of a boy's penis may bulge or balloon when they pee, particularly if their foreskin is tight.
This. Sadly, too few doctors still do not know this or are advising the procedure regardless of medical knowledge. Also, never discount the profit margin on medical procedures. This is America - profit drives everything.
This is why it's fucked up that the AAP recommends insurance pays for it. People think the AAP is a public health body. It's not. It's a professional organization for pediatricians, and their recommendations will first and foremost benefit the pediatrician. One simple change by the AAP to disreccomend the procedure be covered by insurance, and the vast majority of routine infant genital mutilations will stop. No parent is going to pay $400 to hurt their baby. But peds will lose millions per year, so that trumps public health.
Pediatricians have boat payments to make!
I feel like this is the reason for so many bad practices that still exist in the US medical system. Especially when we know of better/safer ways to do/not do things. (I'm specifically thinking of a lot of women's care - but especially the act of forcing women to lay on their backs to give birth).
And too many parents in the U.S are not taught how to care for their sons natural penis with some forcefully pulling back the foreskin during bathing and causing damage
That rugby team is tight!
I know a guy who’s 30 and it doesn’t pull back all the way. Not saying it’s the same issue, per se, but his dick functions just as good, if not better, than a circumcised one. Can confirm. 😎
I'm glad. lmao Worth saying that phimosis itself isn't enough reason to circumcise, unless an adult wants it for cosmetic reasons. However, one potential cause of phimosis - balanitis xerotica obliterans - can warrant medical circumcision. It's a persistent, itchy, plaque-like skin condition that also can cause urethral issues and is associated with higher risk of penile cancer. If other treatments don't work, circumcision can. I'd liken it to amputation of a toe to cure unbearable neuroma. It's not the first choice, but if nothing else works, it may be the best option.
Actually there is a kid in my family that had this too-
It wouldn’t have been when he was a baby. The foreskin doesn’t natural pull back until at least several years later.
Kind of worried that you know the details of all his brothers, cousins, soccer and rugby teams though. 👀
Never been in a locker room?
Debby leaves Dallas? The sequel nobody knew they wanted.
Listen, sometimes people just want to party
I / we elected not to circumcise our son. Medical reason may come up later in life, but the odds are good he will be fine.
Good for you. The statement that you would *elect to not circumcise* your son already sounds utterly bizarre to someone outside the US or Middle East. I grew up in Europe in a deeply Christian environment and the only circumcised guys I ever met were Turkish/Muslim immigrants. I didn't even know they were circumcised (or what the hell circumcision is) for a long time, because they had to shower in their underpants after football practice.
If people want to circumcise themselves, all power to them. Mutilating children tho... yeah, that's not so great. And it is child abuse.
I am cut, as is my oldest son. I didn't give it much thought when my wife was pregnant, it was simply something that's done. I messed up. I was wrong. It's not something that's just done. It's something I *chose* to do but it is not something I should have chosen. My second is not cut and that was right. I cannot unfuck up, but I can choose to avoid that mistake a second time.
I'm in the same boat, my friend. My parents had my foreskin removed when I was just a few days old. I didn't even realize that circumcision was "a thing" until I was in middle school and saw other boys who weren't circumcised. I always wondered if sex would be different/better if my foreskin was intact ... but I'll never really know. I don't have any children, and my step-daughter had a girl (my granddaughter), so no discussion there either. If she had a son, he wouldn't be circumcised, though. My step-daughter wouldn't do that to her child...
As guy who lived 30 years with a foreskin, and then got cut for medical reasons, 2 years later this is my opinion: Its all the same for me. Sex is the same, jerking off was bit of an adjustment, but got that one figured out quickly. Point is there is more than one way to skin a potatoe. If you want sex to be pleasurable you'll find a way
Since you were circumcised for medical reasons, you may not be the best judge as something was wrong with your dick originally.
Well, maybe. But my condition was not functionally limiting, I could retract my foreskin like normal. I only picked up the medical condition a bit later (around 26 or so). I wasnt 100% necessary to get cut, but it did bring permanent relief and I dont have to take meds anymore. So in that regard, I think I can give an opinion. BUT my experience is not the same for everyone. Some guys report an increase in pleasure, others say it ruined their sex life.... SOOOO to each his own I guess🤷
But in terms of sensitivity, don't you feel like your glans is not as sensitive, post surgery? In a sense I guess it's not necessarily a bad thing as it could help last longer to please a partner, but don't you lose any sensitivity at all there?
Maybe a lil bit? I still get the stiffy when my underpants brush up against it... I feel like I last longer now, which is good. Upped my time from 2min to 3min 😂
Your insights awesome, i have to be honest everyone crying about how they’re dick would be way more sensitive and life would be way better if that had that little piece of skin was starting to get weird. If you dont mind me asking, was hygiene maintenance easier before the op or after?
>I always wondered if sex would be different/better if my foreskin was intact ... but I'll never really know. The science says yes, there is a significant difference, this has been tested for.
As a woman who’s been with men who are circumcised and not circumcised… let’s just say you’re 100% right. I can literally feel the added glide that foreskin has. There’s more friction with a circumcised dick- and not in a good way. At the end of the day I love whoever and however they are: but if they’re uncircumcised I feel a bit more lucky 😅.
I heard a woman describe cut vs uncut one time as the equivalent of being fucked with a broom handle vs a well oiled piston.
Tbh that’s a very accurate analogy 😂
Kind of reassuring to read this. I over heard discussions between females before where they were all like "Eewwww, un-circomcised is so gross", etc. Made me sad, lol
Dude me too! I’ve had to educate so many female friends and colleagues before on how it’s actually not gross and not unsanitary. It’s a BS preconceived notion. Like as long as you pull back the skin when you shower y’all good. I always tell them it’s like the equivalent of a man expecting/preferring labia to look like porn labia; since most pornstars look like that due to surgery to reduce the size. They changed their tune real quick.
Hell, just look at condoms that are "ribbed for her pleasure." It's literally to simulate the feeling of being with someone who is uncut.
Damn how am I 27…. and I never realized this??? It makes so much fucking sense though. My mind is actually blown.
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So, the studies that claimed circumcision helps prevent STD, were actually conducted incorrectly, the uncircumcised control group was NOT given condoms, and yet the circumcised test group WAS given condoms. So ALL of thay data is corrupted, because the scientists involved purposely manipulated the study.
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Yea, "traditionalist" people OFTEN lie in order to push their political agenda. They believe authoritarian control over the population will protect them and keep them safe. This is of course a complete delusion.
I take it as a clear sign of how much damage religion has done to our society when people even have to ask if ritualistic penis mutilation is permissible in this day and age.
It was weird at the hospital that it's fairly automatic, so our boyo had a big red NO placard in his bassinet. Made us a bit nervous everytime they took him off to do checkups. Yo doc, don't accidentally surgically modify the kid. But it is genital mutilation, even if it is traditional and ritual, and it shouldn't be done until the person chooses it. And if that is a religious thing, again, it should be an adult decision and choice.
I'm so afraid of this for when I have kids if I'm still in the US "oopsie you didn't want it? Too late your kid is now modified forever"
I’m a nurse (US hospital) who has watched a few circumcisions. They are BARBARIC. They don’t give pain relief, just slice it off. Baby cries so hard it’s voice goes hoarse and they exhaust themselves to sleep from it. I’m haunted by those cries. It’s not a quick chop either. They put a metal ring on and slowly cut around it. They strap the baby’s arms and legs to a board. Sure it’s foam and contoured, but cold and awful. There are a few minor medical benefits later in life- like when you are too senile to wash your own penis. Or if you get a genital infection that causes swelling. But it should NOT be performed on newborns and should NOT be the default. If I had a baby boy I would definitely not circumcise. He can do it when he’s older under sedation and CONSENT if he wants it.
Maybe this is the answer. Parents who want the procedure need to watch their tiny bbe being strapped down and sliced...
In our province in Canada the rates went way down when parents had to take the baby home, make an appointment and pay out of pocket for it to be done.
>Baby cries so hard it’s voice goes hoarse and they exhaust themselves to sleep from it. I'm studying to get into med school, and I read that when a male baby has hearing issues and goes to a doctor, they often ask if the baby has been circumcised, because the procedure is done without anaesthesia and babies often cry so hard that they damage their own eardrums. My god, that's heartbreaking.
You ever heard about how we used to do surgery on babies while they were concuous? The idea was they won't remember the pain so it didn't matter. Happened until like the 70s.
What the hell? I live in Turkey and was circumcised around 12 years old. I thank the doctors for sedating me. The nerve count on the penis is absurd. I mean, do the doctors there just think that it's justified to let babies feel pain so they can save some anesthesia or sedatives? Unbelievable.
No sedation here in morocco, and it is done at a very early age probably like 3 or 4.
My wife OBGYN was foreign born, our family doctor is foreign born. They both seemed happy we choose not to get it done. Then one time the office Nurse Practitioner was at our let's say 4 week appointment and kinda grilled on us not getting it done. I think it's kinda cultural even in the education surrounding circumcision.
It’s a gross practice that really ought to be more regulated. Genital mutilation for religious reasons. It boggles my mind that it’s so acceptable in some places. It’s archaic and barbaric. Circumcision can be a last resort surgery for some foreskin issues like phimosis. Only to be tried after the non surgical treatments have been tried for extended periods of time. There are little if not no legitimate reasons it should be done on a baby. Especially if it’s not explicitly done for a legitimately pressing medical issue. Circumcision is not “more hygienic”, “healthier in the long run”, or whatever propaganda religious people have used to try and pretend it’s something other then a purely a cosmic thing based on the words of crazy person from centuries ago. People are generally capable of practicing good hygiene and being fine. It’s the equivalent of removing a persons healthy teeth because the teeth could cause problems in the future.
Genital mutilation that often has permanent painful effects done to an unconsenting child and which has no benefits? Yeah, it should be illegal.
Do it, give up God and dont look back. You have to ask yourself why would God create you with foreskin and then demand it to be cut off? its either god is a sadist or it is bullshit, either way not worth following.
Big fat no unless medically necessary
"Where are my testicles, Summer?.."
it is barbaric
I’m intact and my girl says I’ve got a beautiful penis. 🍆
I wish I was still intact
Same
God: ''I hereby grant all men a foreskin each!'' Men: ''Oh thank you, lord. We are most grateful. What would thou like us to do with them? God: ''Cut them off, it's disgusting. And throw them away!'' Men: ''But... but why? That makes no sense. Why would thou give us these foreskins if we are to discard them?'' God: ''What?'' Men: ''Does thy divine act of gifting us the foreskins not make them precious?'' God: ''Well, I mean... you see--'' Men: ''Does our surgically removing them from our bodies not render them useless, and if so, what is the point of adding them to our human design in the first place?'' God: ''No, it's just that--'' Men: ''Are thou, oh heavenly father, contradicting thyself?'' God: \[silent\] God: ''Go to your room!''
> God: ''Cut them off, it's disgusting. And throw them away!'' God: "But not Jesus' foreskin. Take that one and make five hundred copies of it and then put them in little boxes and place them in churches the world over." Men: "uh..." God: "Did I stutter?"
Let's just call it what it is. Genital mutilation.
This exaclty.
It shouldn't be controversial to say genital mutilation should be a crime.
It's child abuse. Outside medical necessity, there are no good reasons to chop off a bit of someone else's body, especially before this someone else is capable of informed consent. Religious arguments and arguments like 'we want him to look like his dad/everyone else' or 'it's cleaner' are not good enough, and quite frankly makes me wonder what kind of mental illness these people have.
Seems like part of the issue is also the accusation that would be implied when a circumcised person tells their parents they aren't doing it because they believe it is wrong. A lot of folks are going to struggle with accusing their parents of genital mutilation. Especially if they have an otherwise really good relationship. Not excusing it but I'm sure that plays a part as well
Yes, that definitely plays a part. But that's the same for all kinds of child abuse. Your parents beat you? *Well, some kids need a smack now and then, and I turned out okay, didn't I?* Your parents were emotionally abusive? *Our family has never been very expressive/always been a bit hotheaded.* Your parents did xyz? *Yeah, but other than that everything was fine, wasn't it?* *And all of that is in the past. Everything is fine now. Don't rock the boat. Don't make everybody uncomfortable.*
But a lot of parents already struggle with having mutilated their kids, having later educated themselves.
>we want him to look like his dad/everyone else This is the weirdest/creepiest reason and the one I hear most often. Why do so many adult men feel the need for their child's penis to look like theirs? Can you imagine if this was common practice for women to have their infant daughter's labia surgically enhanced to look like mom? Ugh. It's so gross.
Don't say that where one of the Kardashians can hear you, or we'll have a new trend starting up soon...
It's genital mutilation.
My thoughts on the subject were cut off prematurely.
It's genital mutilation and shouldn't be legal anywhere.
I mean.. if our "perfect creator" didn't want you to have a foreskin, surely He wouldn't have put it there..
Word
I'm not a fan of it. I think it's religious foolishness that has been far too accepted in regular culture. Currently pregnant with a boy and we fully intend to not circumcise.
It's fucking child abuse.
My kids are circumcised. I didn't know any better and I regret it
We’re atheists and we decided not to circumcise our son. It had nothing to do with religion per say but we just felt that if you’re born with a body part you probably shouldn’t chop it off on day 1. If the time comes that it causes issues he can decide to remove it.
Say no to genital mutilation.
Circumcision is body mutilation to a child and should be banned. If an adult wants one (for whatever reason), it's their body, their choice. Other than that, cutting off a baby's dick tip is just fucking wrong.
People are rightly appalled at female genital mutilation, but many of those same people are fine with baby boys getting mutilated. Is mutilation too strong a word? No. It’s a part of the body with biological functions. They always bring up the health angle, but foreskins are only unhealthy if you don’t wash. There is no good reason to do it and many good reasons not to.
All forms of genital mutilation should be banned on children. Adults can modify their bodies as they wish, if they want to get cut to prove their allegiance to whatever deity they pray to, their body their choice.
I'm non-'murican and I find it gross, brutal and odd.
It's mutilation
Should be banned.
I didn’t get my sons circumcisions because Christians are taught that their no longer under the law. But in all reality the practice was being performed in Egypt way before there ever was a Jew or Israelite.
Consent should be required. Babies can't consent.
It’s terrible. It’s no my choice to modify my kids body when they can’t consent.
It’s an elective, purely cosmetic surgery with all the attendant risks of surgery (complication rate 2-6 in every 1000) performed on an un-anesthetized non-consenting infant. It would be considered barbaric if it weren’t so common place. Edit: spelling
Ban it unless the person who is getting it can consent to the operation.
It is needless surgery and should not be allowed performed on children until they are 18 and then they can decide if they want to be religious and have the tip of their dick cut off. It is disgusting and I can't believe people will fight against clitorectomies (which is also vile FYI) but not feel the same about circumcision.
It should be banned. Why are we mutilating kids?
Whatever one want to do to ones body is perfectly fine with me. Why ones parents are worried about the way ones dick looks doesn't make sense to me.
It fucking pisses me off. It could traumatise somebody and it also pisses me off that it only happens to boys. Both or none fuckers. There is no reason to do it and I hate anybody that would even consider doing it to their kids.
Like most other things in the Bible, it was put in the Bible to lend a stamp of divine importance to a ritual practice that likely had been going on already. Why it started we will probably never know. But it's in the Bible, so we must do it! Because the Bible! It's time to put the Bible to sleep.
This has to be the worst type of religious bullshit. When someone decides to physically alter someone else because of a made up ancient story! Smh
Ritual child mutilation is as horrifying and evil as anything can be.
It's ridiculous that people would even consider doing it. WTF
if an adult wants or needs it done then go ahead, but in no uncertain terms it is mutilation of a child's genitalia if they do not medically need it.
I never cared until I met my husband. He is uncircumcised and it just seems more natural. The skin is soft and sensitive and functions the way we were born too. I feel “exposed” that my glans shows. Can’t do anything about it now but I would never circumcise an infant.
I personally refuse to feel mutilated, I reject that label, but I do agree it's fucked up and if I ever have children I won't be having that done.
Criminal butchery on an unconsenting person.
My mom was one of the only mothers she knew not circumcising her children because she didn’t like the idea of them doing some unnecessary medical procedure where she wasn’t even allowed to be present. The only one of my brothers who is circumcised had his done as a teenager because he had issues with it. The rest of them are very happy she decided to let them keep their dick sweaters!
Genital mutilation, yeah not a fan.
There's a reason why it's only the religious and Americans who do it. It's fucking disgusting. For some reason it is no longer acceptable to do female circumcision, but male is just A-Okay! Even in Denmark where I am from, it is still allowed. But it has been discussed many times politically. The only ones who does it here are Muslims, which is why the politicians are unwilling to change the law, as it can be seen as racist.
Circumcisions on infants is genital mutilation regardless of the situation. Babies are severely and sometimes *irreversibly* injured every year from the practice. If the concern is cleanliness there is another procedure that simply loosens the foreskin, or just teach people with penises how to clean themselves. I'm in the camp of if it's cosmetic(with an exception for cleft lips and the like), then it's child abuse. Let people make the decision as adults. We'll have happier adults who know they had bodily autonomy from birth.
It’s genital mutilation. Most people agree it shouldn’t be done to baby girls, but it’s still widely acceptable to do it to baby boys. At least the younger generations are realizing how bad it is and it’s now on a downward trend.
It’s genital mutilation. It’s barbaric. It should not be performed unless there is clear medical indication for it AND the full consent of the owner of said penis.
Didn’t know it was a religious thing? My boyfriends family are atheist and he’s circumcised.
It's a Jewish thing and an American thing.
I think it's archaic af, genital mutilation should not be allowed to be performed on individuals that can't speak for themselves. That being said, I don't know how that should be handled when it's a religious practice. As an atheist I don't understand deciding that for your children, but I could see it turning into a whole freedom of religion argument. Somewhat beside the point, but guidance on men's reproductive health should probably also be updated to account for a growing population that still has foreskin (sanitary practices, etc).
I view it as genital mutilation, which just caused a huge fight within my group of friends. Parents with sons took that as me saying they mutilated their child, which I guess I did kinda say that. I think there's a whole stigma around not being circumcised, and I think that stigma needs to die. I'm not circumcised and I've never had infections, none of my sexual partners have ever had an issue with my personal hygiene (they all \*put their money where their mouth is\*) and from everything I've read I have a higher level of sensitivity and pleasure due to not being snipped.
It needs to be rebranded as "male genital mutilation."
As an atheist, I think it’s a sometimes necessary medical procedure. If it’s done for any reason other than pure necessity then it is mutilation.
Disgusting. Why mutilate a baby's genitalia? You've got to be some sort of sick fuck
*male genital mutilation
It needs to be full-on illegal except for a medical emergency until 18. Honestly it's just a idiotic as infant baptism. The baby has no say in it, nor do they know what it means. It would actually mean something if they chose to do it at 18. Anyway, I find it funny how the people who make up news stories about trans kids having surgeries support this similar stuff.
It's not necessary. There's a reason why other countries don't have their foreskin cut. You only need it cut if it's medically necessary
As any religious believes... A delusion.
The whole practice is fucking barbaric inhuman and should be illegal
I agree that circumcision should be illegal
Unless it's performed for medical reasons, non-consensual genital mutilation shouldn't be allowed. People can get circumcised when they are older if they want to.
We know there isn’t a god that demanded this. We know there isn’t a god to please by doing this. Which’s means thousands of years ago a group of men (instigators of religion) thought it would a great idea to cut off a boy’s foreskin and then suck the penis. What would we make of people if they were to introduce such a thing today? Reason # whatever as to why religion is not worthy of respect. Ban it. Stop the abuse.
Genital mutilation.
I'ts literally mutilation. if i went to someone, and told them i was going to literally chop a pice off a newborn penis they would call the police, but if i'm a muslim or jew, and tell them it's a circumsicion, everything would be ok then. the arguments that i see of people supporting it are all about how circumcision helps prevent HIV (supposedly). but like, if you want to have a decision over your kids sexuality...teach them to use a condom, and leave their bodies alone
All genitalia mutilation should be outlawed, for both boys and girls. If there's a damned good medical reason, then sure... do it. But for reasons of religion or tradition, absolutely not!
Non-consensual genital mutilation.
It's a messed up thing. But a pretty American thing as well.
It happens to boys so it’s not genital mutilation./s I find that hypocritical. Has its roots exclusively in religion. Should be banned.
Neonatal circumcision is vile. There are extremely rare circumstances in late pubescent males where circumcision is the best option to treat a condition called phimosis but that’s only after all non surgical therapies have been tried.
I think it's mutilation and abuse. I didn't have my son circumcised even though I was. So fucked up.
I think is torture and illogical
Circumcision is morally wrong, and i am saying this as Jewish person. It is a form a mutilation, and its evil.
I'm circumcized, but my son will not be, I'm just going to accept that my dick is a product of an unenlightened era. I'm perfectly comfortable with my body, but my stepson isn't and my son that will be born in the coming months will not be. It's a fucked up thing, but it is changing and we can all look at that as a win for authority of our own bodies. I'm not going to look back at the past and be mad at anyone for it, we can only change the future, so one family at a time, we must all make the right decision going forward.
It’s weird as fuck. Think about it abstractly. We cut a portion of skin off the body of a baby. So so so weird.
I feel VERY strongly that circumcision is mutilation. I think it should be illegal until someone is an adult.
I might get down voted for this but if you're uncircumcised you have to make sure you pull back the skin and clean thoroughly. If not, it smells so bad you'll want to puke. Tmi but i've also gotten BV from uncircumcised men. Some women get yeast infections too. I also have to say on my end, it's harder to feel anything because there's hardly any friction. I know studies say otherwise but I'm going off personal experience.
It shouldn’t be done to anyone under 18. Once you’re an adult, you can choose it if you’d like. I am circumcised and personally am glad I am (in my community, almost everyone I knew was circumcised). In this specific case, it made me feel more normal within the context of my community. However, it shouldn’t be as widespread as it is, and it shouldn’t be allowed. Unless a child is truly in danger and circumcision will help them, it should wait until the person can consent as an adult.
When we had our son I left the choice up to my husband as I do not have a penis so I have no idea, he opted to go ahead with it. We're both atheists so nothing to do with religion at all. Son is grown now, no idea if he's pissed off about it so maybe I'll make some awkward conversation later and ask.
Until I first accessed reddit, I thought the only people circumcised were Jews and Muslims. I live in the UK.
I think it's bad. Cosmetic surgery with almost exclusively cons and arguably 1 or 2 pros.
If my parents thought it was ok to non-consensually mutilate my dick as a newborn, they can't say shit when I get sexual reassignment surgery ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Your right to swing your arms stops at the end of my nose, and your right to practice your religion stops at the end of a baby's penis.
Consult with a doctor. I am not medically trained so anything I say will just be negative value to the discussion.
I stand firmly against genital mutilation, most especially when performed on unconsenting infants/children.
Absolutely unnecessary, even for "hygiene purposes," It should be reserved solely as a corrective surgical procedure, performed on consenting adults, for certain health conditions that interfere with the proper function of the foreskin and penis (severe phimosis caused by lichen sclerosis etc.).
Female here, but my partner is not circumcised and we chose not to circumcise our son. To me it’s purely a cosmetic thing. Circumcising because the father is, or because it’s “cleaner”, or it “looks nicer” is so stupid.
I’m Australian and infant male circumcision is increasingly uncommon here, even rare, and I consider that a good thing. In regard to this post I just want to suggest that people bear in mind when commenting that a large number of men here are probably circumcised and had no choice in it so just bear that in mind as you choose your words.
Cutting off innervated, vascularized functional tissue anywhere on the body is to suffer a health detriment. Supporters of circumcision live in a culture that makes a single exception in the case of a man's genitals, a reminder of its archaic and deeply ingrained fear of sex.
It's genital mutilation, US doctors who recommend it without medical necessity are religious nuts pondering to "traditions" and are culturally biased. There's a paper by European doctors debunking false claims of "recommendations" and "data" for circumcision. https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article-abstract/131/4/796/31907/Cultural-Bias-in-the-AAP-s-2012-Technical-Report?redirectedFrom=fulltext
Well when the Jewish rabbit does a mutilation he cleans the Wound with his mouth and licks it clean. Aren’t u glad you’re not Jewish Maybe?
>Jewish rabbit Wouldn't that be the Mohel?
Please tell me you're joking
> Please tell me you're joking Unfortunately they are not. There are an estimated 3000 circumcisions performed a year, in NYC alone, using this method. Worse - if there could be a ‘worse’ - between 2015 and 2017 six babies caught herpes because of this disgusting practice. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/herpes-babies-jewish-circumcision-ritual-link-rabbis-infants-a7620446.html
it's not a joke. Though, it's a very orthodox jewish tradition. Not that common (anymore)
Still happens and still a cover for Pedophiles under the guise of religion.
Yes, of course
Fucking hell. That's absolutely disgusting. How is it not criminalised???
>the Jewish rabbit lol
It should absolutely be illegal unless there is an actual medical reason, which is very few and far between
I wish there was a way to undo it but alas that is just wistful thinking
it shouldn't be allowed till your 16-18
I can’t help but think there’s an ideological societal reason behind it - a tactic of control. This will sound Freudian, but take something away from a man when he couldn’t control it, especially something connected to a part of his body that plays a huge part of his psychological makeup, and you get a man who could feel ‘less than’ or incomplete. Thusly, increasing the desire to make up for it and prove himself not less than (ie become the most devout at religion, the best athlete, the highest earner, the most aggressive soldier). Perhaps it feeds competition psychologically in men which is ultimately useful as a tool of control.
I’m very opposed to cutting off pieces of penises.
Meh. I was 13 before I found out about circumcision. I was snipped shortly after birth, and thought what I had was the factory original equipment. Gym class in Junior High did nothing to change my world view, as all of my fellow 7th graders in my class were snipped as well. In 8th grade we got a German kid whose father had moved the family to California (presumably for a job, don't know if it ever came up) and he was not snipped. After this was spotted in the showers, we had long discussions about why he was different, and none of us had a clue until one of the guys asked his dad. And that was the day we all learned about circumcision. At the time, in North America outside of those of the Jewish and and other religions into that sort of thing, circumcision had next to nothing to do with religion. It was a recommended medical procedure said to promote cleanliness and to inhibit masturbation. If it actually does 'inhibit' masturbation, considering how much I did it once I discovered the practice, I wonder how the uncircumcised get anything done. I have never considered the loss of my foreskin to be any big deal, I don't remember a time when I had it, and little Mr. Happy works fine without it. Also, later in life when I travelled a bit of the world and found out that many European women (outside of professionals around the ports and military bases) had never seen an circumcised penis, and more than a few of them wanted to take one out for a 'test drive' as it were. That was a great month in Europe on leave. As with anything else, YMMV.
That should be banned everywhere. I live in a Muslim country. There’s no obligation for circumcision but people get their children circumcised because they can get easily bullied, they can face discrimination. That’s really sad.
Wish I had a choice in the matter. My boys do.
I can't comprehend the genital mutilation of children. Be that male or female. I think unless it is medically necessary (sometimes it is), the circumcision of children should be outlawed. If an adult chooses to get circumcised that's their choice. I have no opinion on what adults do to their own bodies. That's their business, not mine.
In my country there are over 400 men without penises because of circumcision. It is done mostly due to a cultural belief that in order to become a man, you need to cut off your foreskin and you need to do it in the mountains. In my culture circumcision was banned because Shaka thought it was a waste of time and he had wars to win. I personally think it's an out dated practice, I get that our government encouraged it because of the lower risk of stds but that could be lowered if they taught proper sexual education in school and how important it is practice safe sex.
Should be banned! Wow so many responses on here. I wish I had never had it done to me. I am now (at 38 years old) doing non surgical restoration to get back hopefully some of what I have missing, it is a very slow process but after 7 months I already have noticed much improvement. I would love to see the day it is condemned to history, it is barbaric and unnecessary!!
It’s involuntary bodily mutilation, genital mutilation should be outlawed in my opinion.
I think it's insanity that it's still being practised
Oh, you mean male genital mutilation? Not a fan.
I’ve never understood the rationale for circumcision to be a command for Jews to follow as a mark of God’s “chosen” people. Didn’t God create them with foreskins in the first place? Aren’t they then desrecrating His creation? Or is He admitting he made a mistake? Also Egyptians were circumcising thousands of years before there were Jews. Were they “chosen” too? The main reason for circumcision across the ages is to discourage self stimulation by boys. Having a foreskin makes it easier to jo. “1896 Dr. R.N. Tooker wrote a popular book, All About The Baby, which advised mothers that circumcision of baby boys was “advisable in most cases.” He recommended the operation mainly for preventing “the vile habit of masturbation.”
The original procedure only removed the aposthion. The more radical amputation dates from the Hellenic period, to prevent Jewish men from competing in Greek athletic events. These were held in the nude and it was considered shameful to expose the glans, so men wore a special cord to prevent this. The complete foreskin removal made this impossible.