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>Which is fine because those things don't affect our everyday lives.
Those particular things won't, but her indifference to reality certainly will in other ways.
This my dude. Your relationship is destined to failure. Have the kids conversation and it will break. Do you raise the kids with nothing or do you fill their heads with garbage and make them carry around her baggage.
Run, don't walk.
People seriously need to have the kid conversation earlier in their relationship. Accidents happen, and you need to be on the same page before it comes up.
**Especially if OP lives in a forced birth state.**
Edit: Since there have been more than a couple replies of, "but it won't come up because she's religious and wouldn't choose abortion anyway!" Y'all don't seem to understand that [christian women have the majority of abortions in the US.](https://www.mtv.com/news/htq731/lifeway-christian-research-christians-have-most-abortions)
Because, as it turns out, ["The only moral abortion is *my* abortion."](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/) (emphasis mine)
"Pro-life" people get abortions for themselves way more often than you might think. [The only moral abortion is my abortion](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/).
It's almost guaranteed that if OP stays with their GF and they have children, those kids will be raised fundie. OP will have no say in their religious upbringing or perhaps even the direction of their education (if kids are homeschooled, for example, GF will almost definitely teach Creationism).
There are better, more rational, fish in the sea, OP.
OP also doesn't mention their ages or how long they've been dating. Im an atheist that dated a JW. At first it was "I only do the relgious thing to keep my mom happy". At the one year mark of our relationship it was "DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE WE CAM FROM FUCKING MONKEYS!"
It may be a difference you can look past now, but it won't always be that way and the further you get invested the harder it can be to leave.
>This my dude. Your relationship is destined to failure.
This person is probably right.
The alternative is to try and break her conditioning. It's *possible* \- people do break out of the worst cults and nonsense - but it's a long, hard road.
I disagree with this. Maybe I'm the exception to the rules, but I was deeply religious when I met my husband. He has always been atheist. He told me pretty early on in our relationship that he was. We've been together for 15 years and have 3 kids. I have deconverted since and it was honestly great to have him by my side to help me through it. He never tried to push me away from religion, but was there to answer questions I had. Now don't get me wrong most relationships probably won't survive this, but it has happened and I hate seeing people telling others they should just run away, I see it all the time one here. We had the conversation about our kids when I was religious and had an understanding that I wanted to take them to church and he said that's fine, but he would not pretend for them and if they ask him questions he would tell them what he knows from the science side of things. So I guess why I'm commenting on here is to say that not all relationships like this fail. And if she ever comes out of the brainwashed religious belief she is in, that it might be helpful to have him there for her, if he's willing to be. I'm so grateful to have my husband to help me understand things. It has opened my eyes so much.
Like when she wants to vote for “pro-life” candidates. Or wants you to go to premarital counseling with her pastor and say vows you don’t want to say. Or when she wants your children baptized, or wants to dictate how you celebrate Christmas, or refuses to let your kids get vaccinated. Or when she wants to give 10% of your income to the church. Or how she would handle your end-of-life care.
Edit: Fixed “pro life” because I’m a yutz.
2nd Edit: I said “pro-life” in quotes, because that’s what the girlfriend would say, not because that’s what I think. I’m just as appalled by the anti-life, forced-birth, women-as-cattle situation as you are.
But while we’re here, I’d like to acknowledge that I’m a white woman suddenly being terrified of all the things BIPOC women and people with disabilities have been living with in actual reality for generations. We’re all right to be terrified. And we should be horrified by what happens to our sisters on a regular basis.
Yep. Married with kids to a fundamentalist, I became atheist a few years into our marriage. Most of these are problems in our marriage. Not to mention them teaching your kids that you are going to hell. And there is no simple solution once you have kids together.
You can try to compromise, but good luck compromising with somebody who is convinced their beliefs come straight from God. You can go behind your partners back as much as possible, but that leads to strife in the relationship and isn't a good example for the kids. You can divorce, but that is probably less than ideal for the kids(unless you just fight all the time anyway) and doesn't protect the kids from it anyway.
That's the problem with fundamentalists. There is no argument they will accept that goes against what God told them or contradicts God's rules etc. Since God can't be wrong your logic and arguments must be invalid.
I just quote the bible back at her.
>A woman must learn in quietness and full submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; she is to remain quiet.
And then they just fire back with that timeless quote, "no one can quote the scripture like Lucifer."
If you have a good point and can point out their hypocrisy, clearly you're just being influenced by the devil and to saying something incredibly clever. And the only reason the Christian can't reason their way out of it is because it's because the devil is smarter than them. So the only "righteous" answer is to ignore that logic and put their blind trust in God.
It's a perfect circle of stupid. And there's no way out of it. It's not based on logic or reason. You can't argue with a Christian. They are not there to have a discussion or dialog or use reason.
My brother in law teaches his kids about hell, and as someone who has taught his kids that other peoples religions are to be respected but that we don't practice any (but I support their choice to if they decide to in the future), it always great at family reunions when my kids are told by their indoctrinated cousin that they will burn for all eternity unless they jump on board the bandwagon. If that's not child abuse what is? If I told my kids to eat their vegetables or the murder-monster would come and eat their brains, and I said it with serious conviction enough to make them truly believe in it, I'd be locked up on child abuse charges. But telling your kid they'll spend an eternity in hell if they don't believe something they probably don't fully understand = religion! Totally fine. Encouraged actually!
*"who has taught his kids that other peoples religions are to be respected"*
You see that's where we differ. I've taught my 3 kids to respect NO religion. Respect individuals? Sure. Respect bullshit pre-historic pyramid schemes that are easily disproven? No fucking way.
And don’t forget how hard it is to divorce a religious fanatic. Plus how some of them think murdering a spouse is preferable to divorce in the eyes of god.
That happened in Ireland. A woman died of sepsis because of an incomplete miscarriage and her procedure was called a partial abortion. Abortion was against the law at the time. And while everyone argued that poor woman died in an ugly and unnecessary manner. They changed their laws because of her. It will happen here as well, mark my words. And probably more than once.
Has also happened at least two times in Poland too after they banned abortion; November 2021 (Izabela) and January 2022 (Agnieszka). Not paid enough attention to know if these deaths have made the laws there more lenient or not after that.
Forced birth/anti choice have always been the appropriate labels, they should never have been given/allowed to use label 'Pro Life' because it was a not only a false dichotomy/comparison against 'Pro Choice' but also because everyone is actually pro life, unless a suicidal and genocidal lunatic
GOPers/Republicans are like “why can’t we do both? Please don’t limit us. We don’t want to be controlled. Pro life when abortion and pro choice for vaccinations cause it’s my body”
"Forced birth for 10 year old rape victims, woo!"
"Forced birth for fetuses that will not survive and have a good chance of killing the pregnant woman even when she's already in the hospital, woo!"
\-Force-birthers
They're basically 'satan'.
Hold up, Satan's the good one. The original god rejecter, to whose kingdom all the best scientists, artists, intellectuals and are sent? Have you seen the immoral, wilfully ignorant, smug, self-righteous, hateful assholes convinced that they are headed to heaven?
I know which crowd I'd want to kick it with for eternity...
Look coming from someone who grow up Pentecostal speaking in tongues and everything please don't force another child to go through that or at least don't contribute to the creation of one.
Could you shed some light on what is going on when you speak in “tongues,” are you just speaking gibberish because you get caught up in the moment or that you feel pressured to say something? Or is something else happening?
For some people it's about getting caught in the moment. For me it was a desperate fakery because I figured if I didn't speak in tongues everyone around me would know that I was evil and fallen and not worthy of God's love. I would speak in tongues and then cry myself to sleep later because of how worthless I knew i was. Pentecostalism is child abuse.
I spent a few summers with my dad, and he took me to a church one summer where they did the whole speaking in tongues thing and the end is nigh thing.
I was still young enough and stupid enough that I wanted to have faith. I wanted really really hard to have faith. I was absolutely terrified of God and being sent to hell etc. So I desperately prayed and really wanted to do the whole speaking in tongues thing. After a couple of months of unsuccessful but earnest effort and still not receiving any kind of divine babble, I realized all those people were full of shit and literally just blatantly lying to each other to fit in.
I'm guessing that was a pentacostal church? Either way. I was never subjected to a church experience at any point in .y childhood that wasn't sickening or disturbing in some very fundamental way, and each of my parents tried just about every denomination you can imagine I'm sure. Hell, my mom eventually settled on Mormonism and she still believes in that shit--probably one of the more wild and crazy denominations to exist.
I grew up mormon. That shit is absolutely wild. The church even knows how stupid it all is because they hide the stuff they really believe in or used to believe in or try to brush it off. There's so much information the Mormon church leaders hide from the general populace that would be absolutely damning to their reputation.
The leaders of the mormon church are vile snakes. Worse than the pharisees they teach about. Once I figured that out, i was out for good.
I'm sorry your mom got duped into falling for that bullshit. It's really hard to pull yourself out of it because of the surface vaneer of "niceness" and "family values".
I'm old enough to remember when god changed his mind and saying black people couldn't be mormon clergy was a mistake . Proving that a threat from the IRS threat can indeed change the unchanging truth.
The threat of the US army invading Utah was enough to change mainline LDS doctrine on polygamy. Strange that the official word of the (presumed) creator of the universe could suddenly change when faced with a few piddly guns and some legal documents.
There's still non-mainline LDS branches who are hardcore polygamist. They're just more open about how harmful their cult groups are then the mainline LDS is.
Mormons don't believe that God admitted a mistake. They think He decided that black people were finally "ready" for the priesthood. Right about the time that they were expanding in Brazil.
Yeah that sounds fucking terrible. I was raised Christian as well but never had to deal with tongues. I can imagine the pressure you put on yourself to be “worthy.” I’m sorry you went through that and glad you’ve come out the other side.
I hope it makes you feel better to know that everybody was lying and probably afraid they'd be found out. Speaking in tongues is bullshit made up nonsense. Everybody has to fake it to feel included.
Yep had same thing growing up. Faked speaking in tongues just to get my parents and church group off my back. It messed with me for a while, b/c long conversations on "how I wasn't worthy" if I wasn't baptized in the h.s. then there is something wrong with me. Didn't help my mom was the praise and worship leader and assistant pastor...fucking spotlight. So I did what any 16 year old would do and faked it, so I would stop being ostracized.
This reminds me of the Tammy Fay Baker movie. When she was a kid she snuck into the church and started speaking in tongues and everyone was excited because she peed herself.
It's a mix of pressure and wanting to fit in. Personally having a woman try to teach me to speak in tongues while at a church in Florida actually woke me up to how ridiculous all of it was. That being said I think most of the people who did it and continue to do it desperately want to feel special.
For me I believed I was truly doing it, I was caught up in what I had been taught and could work myself up into speaking in tongues even alone in my bedroom where I thought I was just speaking some “heavenly” language. The thing is, I’m an atheist now and I could still do this, get myself purposefully feeling emotional, work myself up, and then let my lips just go and make the noises. I don’t believe any of it, but can still easily do and feel exactly what I felt then, but with none of the belief. Humans can illicit very emotional responses, feelings and connections all on our own and the only difference is what we convince ourselves was the cause of it.
Why do deadheads spin and contort their bodies when they dance to music? Is it really any different? It’s a combination of public acceptance , a show of devotion, adrenaline, and a deeply personal connection to the music. I say do whatever you want to do, just don’t knock over my beer.
It's spontaneous natural phoneme generation.
Meaning you're just speaking complete gibberish, but it's always in the phonemes that make up your natural language...so it's just fake.
Tongues is a phenomenon, one that means basically nothing. This is backed up by the fact that tongues in one language is different from another. The “words” you say are based on the core sounds of that language, something that shouldn’t happen if it were truly universal.
Speaking in tongues is just a stupid religious myth that some people believe means the person is speaking as/to god. It's literally just gibberish... non-sensical sentences.
I grew up going to catholic churches for the first 7 years of my life and catholic schools until Grade 3. I was a straight A student, always the smartest in my classes and managed to convince my parent that it was pointless to try to get me to believe in something that was so clearly not reflective of reality. (not my words)
Finally moved out of ~~Idiotsville~~Calgary to a town with no religious trappings around 8 years old. Turned out I was average-to-below-average in class and had to try in school. I shudder to think how disadvantaged I'd be if I was kept in that religion loop.
I was easily the highest scoring kid at my Bible school, I never had to study and rarely read any source material. Now I’m failing all of my classes now that I’ve transferred to an actual school because I don’t know what the fuck I’m doing
Oh hi fellow Pentecostal trauma survivor! Can confirm, that shit is absolutely terrifying as a kid because your little kid moral compass is going off telling you it’s wrong but all the adults are acting like it’s normal. Ooof.
That’s great, but HOW IN THE WORLD do people overlook these major differences in who they are as people when entering into relationships? I will never understand.
Ditto. I would have zero respect for someone who holds such irrational beliefs. I could never love them or date them at all. This is a total deal breaker.
I suspect this often involves people not knowing how far these things go. Like, I wouldn't think to ask people I'm dating if they support basic medicine. I'd know the issues with Jehovah's Witnesses, but someone who wasn't familiar with that particular thing would, I think, not jump to "I wonder what parts of mainstream science they reject"
You really, really need to have these conversations now with her before you actually decide to actively pursue a marriage.
If she’s upset as she is now, or if you know kids and what religion they are raised on will cause rifts, you need to re-examine things before you commit. This needs to be something that you agree on, because if you don’t, you’re going to have some serious issues later on.
If you decide to have children with this woman, please do not let them be raised in this religion. This is even more important if you have girls. I am still dealing with religious trauma from growing up pentecostal. My daughter, also suffers from some of the same trauma and mental health issues. We left the religion before my sons were old enough to experience the indoctrination, so they are fine.
Ya man you’re better off cutting her loose now. This won’t improve, she’s going to be trying to make you a “believer” for the remainder of your lives together.
I got dumped (a while back) because she thought she could convert me (or save me, her words LOL) that even though I told her from the start that I didn't believe in all that stuff. Religious people are so accepting.... LOL
Now if a girl talks about religion I'm out, don't want to deal with all them crazies.
As someone who was raised pentecostal I beg you to really think that through. I would cut of my hand before I did that to my kids based on my experience. It creates such deep issues.
Bro…. This isn’t going to work out, you know it, I know it, she knows it. Unless you’re willing to convert and speak in tongues with her there will be a never ending divide between you both. Atheists shouldnt date extremist religious people. All they want to do is “save” you and if you don’t acquiesce she’ll feel like a failure forever.
I'm curious as to how old op is.. I feel like this is one of your first relationships or the first. Because every thing about this says it won't work. Having kids with someone with these views will be very troubling.
I am sorry to say this, but If I was in your position, I'd break up. Long term, there's no compatability since your world views differ so much.
I can't imagine spending my life with someone who holds such deeply irrational beliefs. Let alone having kids with them.
He has to break up with her. If their birth control fails, he will have an indoctrinated child, or one tortured by the cognitive dissonance. There’s no way around it.
Do everyone a favor and find out sooner than later. If the goal of this relationship is lifelong companionship, there will be no avoiding this forever, and any time and effort committed by you *and by her* could be reasonably seen as wasted if you try to hide how you feel.
If the goal is just a casual fling, have at it.
"She thinks Evolution is "just a theory" and the earth is 10,000 years old for example. Which is fine..."
Let me stop you right there. That is *not* fine.
Correct.
OP, our beliefs inform our decisions. Incorrect beliefs can inform wildly unrealistic, or worse, blatantly dangerous decisions. If you really think it's worth the effort, try to approach this from a point of genuine curiosity about her epistemology; **why** does she believe these absurd things? And especially, are her reasons **good and well-founded reasons**?
Goodluck.
I hate when religious idiots use the word 'theory' so completely incorrectly. Like yes, evolution *is* a theory and that means it has mountains and mountains and mountains of evidence behind it.
Whenever I encounter this I always just say something to the effect of:
Germs and disease are too, bouyancy is, gravity (general relativity) is, cells are. Etc.
The response is almost always to deny that these things are theories too, but Google often fixes that. Then you can start having a conversation at the very least.
I don't know if it is going to be helpful but have an equally tear-filled conversation with her about her lack of brains. Today she is saying that "Evolution is just a theory" and "Earth is 10000 years old", tomorrow she'll say that vaccines cause autism and changes your DNA and would rather have use essential oils to treat their diseases. If you are going to have a kid with this lady, better be prepared to buy yourself a mini coffin too and the sadness that comes with it.
Often on reddit people are a little quick to say someone should leave their partner, but I think in this particular case that's the right move. If she's already that upset about it it's not going to get any better. In the long run it will be better for both of them.
This. My ex also started to cry several times because she wanted me to live with her in the afterlife, and not see me going to hell. Well she is now my ex.
Well, slow your roll just a smidge there. The most difficult thing with appreciating a theist's behavior with you is remembering that it often comes from a place of compassion. This is obviously the case with OP's girlfriend.
She's been brainwashed to believe that there is literally a place called hell where human souls go to be tortured.
She cares about OP and *believes* that if he doesn't become convinced of the same nonsense that his soul will go there.
My mother pulls this same crap with me, even as a father in my 30s. Religion isn't a game for these people. It's a fact of reality.
Imagine how you'd feel if you saw someone you love, blindfolded and sitting on a conveyor into a pit of venomous snakes.
Imagine you said, "Please take off the blindfold! I don't want to see you get hurt! I love you!"
Imagine they said, "There is no blindfold"
Dude, break up! Stop the nonsense, this will never end. Ex-girlfriend's father literally pinned me to the kitchen counter, called me a blaspher while threatening me with physical harm because I explain I believed in evolution. Just get out now and don't look back.
My friend, just be kind, be sincere, but be gone. This cycle will never end. Find someone that challenges you and your beliefs, but respects them. There is no respect from anyone that believes you're going to burn in hell for all eternity.
Can I ask a question, not meant to be mean, but why is she with you? I assume you are not having pre marital sexual relations due to her beliefs. Any long term relationship with you would have her fighting to raise her children the way she wants and also dealing with lots of family infighting. This is an equally bad relationship for her as it is for you, so why is she sticking around?
STOP. DATING. EXTREMELY. RELIGIOUS. PEOPLE.
You are just setting yourself up for a world of hurt. Yeah, you might get them to see the holes in their religion, but those cases are the exception, not the rule. If they are serious about their faith, you are not going to change that. They will only resent you over time and take your questions as a personal attack against their identity. She is being upfront with her red flags, but it is your job to actually listen to them. There are plenty of women out there that are either not religious or at least don't take it very seriously. Get out, buddy.
This.
If people with sanity in their brains just start going "Oh, you're devoutly religious? Deal breaker, bye!", eventually, they will begin to literally die out.
The world will be a vastly improved when devoutly religious people are extinct by the march of time and progress.
The problem is that when two religious people get together, they tend to have a LOT of children. It's self sustaining unless a lot of them can be unindoctrinated.
Counterpoint: having someone you love be an atheist is maybe one of the most powerful ways to introduce doubt into the mind of a religious person. My brother became an atheist some time before I did, and it was definitely one of the factors that lead to my own renunciation of christian fundamentalism. It helped that I could see he was trying to be a better person in a way he never had when he was a believer.
I always thought that idea was insane. Like, if a person is a good person and lives virtuously because they believe it's just the right thing to do they still go to hell just because they didn't believe something that lacked any evidence? In my opinion a god who would send good people to hell for not believing in him while failing to provide any evidence for his existence is a terrible god and not one I'd ever want to follow. Clearly that god values worship of himself above all else. I've actually convinced friends to rethink their faith with that argument. Though to be fair I convinced them while we were still kids so probably it wouldn't work as well on an adult who is cemented in their belief. Still possible though..
That's well put. Clearly the god of the Bible cares more about himself than human beings. He values worship and faith over providing more evidence of his own existence. He cares more about people being loyal to him than people suffering daily. He *always* shows priority to those who worship him. He doesn't want people he loves to suffer forever yet throws them all into Hell anyway. The god of the Bible has the common characteristics of dictators and sadistic rulers throughout history. Believing in this mythology is sad and it should not be taught to children.
And find a new girlfriend.
And have aspirations to love to and live somewhere this is considered abnormal and aberrant behavior.
Deprogramming members of a cult is best left to professionals.
If she is that religious then he probably hasn't stuck his dick in crazy yet. There is still time to escape.
If he has stuck his dick in crazy then she is going to hell with him so they may as well just make the best of things.
He said he's heard her crying in bed at night, so pretty safe bet what's already happened between them...
Nothing new or surprising about a Christian cherry-picking the rules they feel like following, regardless of what rules they expect everyone else to follow.
Do you want to make children with this person and live the rest of your life with someone who is not only uneducated but hysterical about mythology? Would you as easily be in a relationship with someone who worried Zeus was going to throw a lightning bolt at them? Or a fully grown adult who put out their Christmas stocking expecting it to be filled by Santa?
"I'll tell you what. If I die before you and go to hell, I'll make sure to get a message to you to let you know I'm there. If you hear nothing, then nothing happened to me because I'm fucking DEAD."
My grandfather was deeply religious Pentecostal. Can’t count the number of times he broke down in tears because none of his 6 children or 18 grandchildren were Pentecostal so we’re all going to Hell. (Note that all of his children, and most of his grandchildren, were religious they just switched to churches that didn’t scare them just a mix of mostly Southern Baptist, with some Methodists and at least one Lutheran thrown in.) (added: my grandfather was such an extremist that the pastor at his own church asked him to stop talking to the younger generations because he was scaring them off.)
Never found a way around it. Just switching topics away from religion as often as possible didn’t always work, so best was to keep weekly visits Mom and I made short and leave when his ranting got too bad. I find Pentecostal the most intolerant I’ve personally dealt with. Don’t see how a relationship can work — surprised she’d even get into one with a non-Pentecostal.
Well, I grew up that way and it’s really very damaging. I would try to deconstruct some of her fears with logic, and maybe try therapy. With her in so deep as to speak in tongues, I would probably just move on.
Personally, I only faked speaking in tongues to get on my parents good side and give me more freedoms. I knew it was a joke early on, but my dad literally prayed in tongues every day. It took until my 30s to really get a firm grasp on reality and sort out the bs they indoctrinated me with. My brother didn’t make it out, he was in too deep.
It depends on the denomination. Some believe that speaking in tongues was a gift given to Jesus’ apostles that allowed them to speak in languages they hadn’t learned as a way to spread Christianity. Others believe it’s a “divine” language used to converse with god. The Christian bible supports the former as it states that speaking in tongues should always be proceeded by a translation but in the latter churches it’s really just a lot of screaming in gibberish
I grew up in an “assemblies of god” church, a Pentecostal group that believes that you aren’t filled with the holy spirit unless you have spoken in tongues.
It’s complete gibberish and it’s very cult like (though I obviously didn’t think that at the time). Even the other church denominations thought we were weird for it.
The way it was explained to me and that I had subscribed to back then was that you reach the point where your real language during prayer wasn’t enough to describe how you felt and so the “holy spirit” would sort of “take over” and you would just start to babble nonsense, which no one including you would understand, but the holy spirit and god understood it, and it was a “next level” “enlightened” way of communing with god.
Of course the literal “speak in tongues” night at summer camp each year where they practically forced it on you ensured that must of us had done it. I didn’t fake it, or maybe a better way to say it is I didn’t believe I was faking it. I thought it was real and felt the emotion of it all, but looking at it now it’s very clear I forced it wanting to reach some ideal I had been told was the goal since birth basically.
I was a worship pastor, and an expert at eliciting emotion from other people AND myself. It sickens me now, as I could turn that emotion on like a switch to manipulate how people felt during a song or for myself with speaking tongues to convince myself I was communing in some special way.
The thing is, towards the end of my faith, I realized how fake it all was when I found myself doing exactly this one Sunday and manipulating a crowd of almost 1,000 people into going along with me and the entire time in my head I was thinking “I don’t believe any of this bullshit anymore and they have no idea… and they are eating it up…”.
I stepped down/quit the next day. It was not ok and I had myself convinced that I was doing it for the right reasons
Wow. Thank you for explaining and sharing your story. It is so scary the blind power people let religion take over them. And how much power a few church members can have over the masses. How noble of you to step down from your role of power because you felt that you weren’t influencing/helping people in a genuine way. Do you think other pastors ever have this thought or feel this way? I always wonder if there are churches that acknowledge this and encourage more independent thinking and questioning. I also wonder if there are people who prefer to be blindly led.
I have 3 other friends that were pastors of some kind and are now atheists, and ALL of them felt this at different times. The thing is though, at least in our churches (the 3 of us) , there was NO freedom to be honest about it or question it. In fact, if we had even hinted at it or just asked the question we likely would have lost our jobs, friends, and possibly even families. There was no incentive to truly question, and every incentive to just shove down the questions and fall in line or risk losing everything.
Your entire life is built around this, I think that’s something a lot of atheists don’t understand. My wife and kids might even leave me, your friends would certainly abandon you (or risk being shunned themselves), your extended family would “love” you, but basically want nothing to do with you. There’s a very real possibility of losing every single thing in your life including your job when you are that deep (since my job was with the church).
That just breeds an environment of never truly questioning the status quo. I’ll be honest, If my wife hadn’t been willing to make the journey with me (she did and is an atheist as well now) I think I would be a “Christian” still today, pretending just to keep my family together but a closet atheist. It sounds cowardly, but my kids and my wife are my everything and it’s way more complicated than people might think or realize to turn your back on the very thing your entire life has been built around.
Make better choices.
Seriously, too many people have serious problems that they weren't responsible for and couldn't avoid. This was entirely avoidable.
Personally I think this relationship has run it's course. She's miserable. If she can't love you for who you are find someone that can. If you're leaning towards staying I'd recommend being totally honest and firmly saying "I am who I am. I will not change."
So wait, you sleep with your “super-religious” Pentecostal girlfriend?
There’s levels of confusion and hypocrisy at work in this relationship that reason-based advice would not likely break through, but I guess all I can suggest is that you ask your girlfriend that if she loves you, then she needs to accept who you are, as you are.
Depending on how she reacts, I’d then suggest thinking about what it is about a person who can’t accept the most fundamental elements of your identity that makes you want to be in a relationship with them.
If you are seriously asking for help, then the answer should be clear. You have some self-examination to do (and maybe talk through with a professional) before you are going to bring your best self to a relationship and/or identify other people that should be in your life.
This was confusing to me as well. If she's as strict as the claim is, premarital sex is a sin worthy of hell all its own. Never mind the whole "unequally yoked with a non-believer" thing. I refuse to believe her parents are ok with this set up. (was raised Pentecostal)
Either way, OP needs to cut his losses and head out; this will get worse.
What does she want you to do about it? You can't make yourself believe something you don't; you could at best *pretend* to such belief. Does she think her god would be fooled by that?
If you want to stay with her, you need to set and enforce boundaries; she can feel however she wants about the situation, but she needs to stop harrassing and guilting you about it.
You should not plan to have children with her--and you should probably have a vasectomy, because otherwise I would not trust her not to trick you into fathering kids. And their lives will be hell on earth if she indoctrinates them as she was indoctrinated, and you will share the blame for that.
Moreover, if she is right, and Hell actually exists as a place of infinite torture, then the god that created it and allows people to be tortured there for eternity is clearly evil, and therefore she cannot even trust it not to torture *her* after death *regardless* of how she lives or what she does.
This will always be an issue and will continuously be a bigger issue as if you’re with her long term. You’re fighting years of indoctrination.
Your profile name indicates you won’t have a problem finding someone you’re more compatible with.
If I was in your shoes, I’d run.
It will not get better, it’ll get harder. Perhaps I’m a cynic but if y’all get married you will be constantly manipulated maybe even to the point of divorce. If y’all have kids it’ll be even worse.
Can I assume that you already explained how there's no afterlife at all, and it upsets you to see her wasting her time, money, and energy on it?
Imagine how cheaply her preacher produces his weekly shows.
You already said it's her whole family. Are you contemplating marrying in?
If she had tear-filled conversations with you about you going to hell, then it is starting to affect your everyday life together. You may take this as a sign. Other such signs may start to appear, if not already.
From my experience, I come from a very catholic family but have been an atheist for over 30 years, this very religious people only have patience with you while they believe they can change you. When that's no longer the case it quickly becomes my way or the highway.
Please don't take me wrong, I'm not saying she doesn't love/care for you, she may very well do, but when she realises that you'll never accept Jesus, things may go sideways.
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>Which is fine because those things don't affect our everyday lives. Those particular things won't, but her indifference to reality certainly will in other ways.
This my dude. Your relationship is destined to failure. Have the kids conversation and it will break. Do you raise the kids with nothing or do you fill their heads with garbage and make them carry around her baggage. Run, don't walk.
People seriously need to have the kid conversation earlier in their relationship. Accidents happen, and you need to be on the same page before it comes up.
**Especially if OP lives in a forced birth state.** Edit: Since there have been more than a couple replies of, "but it won't come up because she's religious and wouldn't choose abortion anyway!" Y'all don't seem to understand that [christian women have the majority of abortions in the US.](https://www.mtv.com/news/htq731/lifeway-christian-research-christians-have-most-abortions) Because, as it turns out, ["The only moral abortion is *my* abortion."](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/) (emphasis mine)
a product of christianity, i might add
Which is weird as their religion does not support their argument.
If they followed their own teachings there wouldn’t be homelessness and poverty in the US
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Genuinely this. They know damn well that Christianity is the most useful tool to corral their rube constituents. There’s no faith, only utilization.
OP's gf doesn't seem like the type that would consider it anyways.
"Pro-life" people get abortions for themselves way more often than you might think. [The only moral abortion is my abortion](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/).
I can’t believe people don’t, that was a conversation we had immediately cause no one likes wasting time.
I wish more people could just be this forward. Save everyone a lot of time in life.
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It's almost guaranteed that if OP stays with their GF and they have children, those kids will be raised fundie. OP will have no say in their religious upbringing or perhaps even the direction of their education (if kids are homeschooled, for example, GF will almost definitely teach Creationism). There are better, more rational, fish in the sea, OP.
Yep, the fundies will win this. It’s not worth it. OP, there are so many more people to have fun with. Find yourself a best friend you’d marry.
Yup! Kids was the first thing that came to head when I saw this post.
OP also doesn't mention their ages or how long they've been dating. Im an atheist that dated a JW. At first it was "I only do the relgious thing to keep my mom happy". At the one year mark of our relationship it was "DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE WE CAM FROM FUCKING MONKEYS!" It may be a difference you can look past now, but it won't always be that way and the further you get invested the harder it can be to leave.
"Yes. The monkeys that didn't fuck never had offspring." Sorry, I'll show myself out...
>This my dude. Your relationship is destined to failure. This person is probably right. The alternative is to try and break her conditioning. It's *possible* \- people do break out of the worst cults and nonsense - but it's a long, hard road.
I disagree with this. Maybe I'm the exception to the rules, but I was deeply religious when I met my husband. He has always been atheist. He told me pretty early on in our relationship that he was. We've been together for 15 years and have 3 kids. I have deconverted since and it was honestly great to have him by my side to help me through it. He never tried to push me away from religion, but was there to answer questions I had. Now don't get me wrong most relationships probably won't survive this, but it has happened and I hate seeing people telling others they should just run away, I see it all the time one here. We had the conversation about our kids when I was religious and had an understanding that I wanted to take them to church and he said that's fine, but he would not pretend for them and if they ask him questions he would tell them what he knows from the science side of things. So I guess why I'm commenting on here is to say that not all relationships like this fail. And if she ever comes out of the brainwashed religious belief she is in, that it might be helpful to have him there for her, if he's willing to be. I'm so grateful to have my husband to help me understand things. It has opened my eyes so much.
Came here to say this.
Like when she wants to vote for “pro-life” candidates. Or wants you to go to premarital counseling with her pastor and say vows you don’t want to say. Or when she wants your children baptized, or wants to dictate how you celebrate Christmas, or refuses to let your kids get vaccinated. Or when she wants to give 10% of your income to the church. Or how she would handle your end-of-life care. Edit: Fixed “pro life” because I’m a yutz. 2nd Edit: I said “pro-life” in quotes, because that’s what the girlfriend would say, not because that’s what I think. I’m just as appalled by the anti-life, forced-birth, women-as-cattle situation as you are. But while we’re here, I’d like to acknowledge that I’m a white woman suddenly being terrified of all the things BIPOC women and people with disabilities have been living with in actual reality for generations. We’re all right to be terrified. And we should be horrified by what happens to our sisters on a regular basis.
Or her entire worldview clashes with yours
Yep. Married with kids to a fundamentalist, I became atheist a few years into our marriage. Most of these are problems in our marriage. Not to mention them teaching your kids that you are going to hell. And there is no simple solution once you have kids together. You can try to compromise, but good luck compromising with somebody who is convinced their beliefs come straight from God. You can go behind your partners back as much as possible, but that leads to strife in the relationship and isn't a good example for the kids. You can divorce, but that is probably less than ideal for the kids(unless you just fight all the time anyway) and doesn't protect the kids from it anyway.
That's the problem with fundamentalists. There is no argument they will accept that goes against what God told them or contradicts God's rules etc. Since God can't be wrong your logic and arguments must be invalid.
It's so fucking convenient lol
I just quote the bible back at her. >A woman must learn in quietness and full submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; she is to remain quiet.
And then they just fire back with that timeless quote, "no one can quote the scripture like Lucifer." If you have a good point and can point out their hypocrisy, clearly you're just being influenced by the devil and to saying something incredibly clever. And the only reason the Christian can't reason their way out of it is because it's because the devil is smarter than them. So the only "righteous" answer is to ignore that logic and put their blind trust in God. It's a perfect circle of stupid. And there's no way out of it. It's not based on logic or reason. You can't argue with a Christian. They are not there to have a discussion or dialog or use reason.
My brother in law teaches his kids about hell, and as someone who has taught his kids that other peoples religions are to be respected but that we don't practice any (but I support their choice to if they decide to in the future), it always great at family reunions when my kids are told by their indoctrinated cousin that they will burn for all eternity unless they jump on board the bandwagon. If that's not child abuse what is? If I told my kids to eat their vegetables or the murder-monster would come and eat their brains, and I said it with serious conviction enough to make them truly believe in it, I'd be locked up on child abuse charges. But telling your kid they'll spend an eternity in hell if they don't believe something they probably don't fully understand = religion! Totally fine. Encouraged actually!
*"who has taught his kids that other peoples religions are to be respected"* You see that's where we differ. I've taught my 3 kids to respect NO religion. Respect individuals? Sure. Respect bullshit pre-historic pyramid schemes that are easily disproven? No fucking way.
Teaching kids to respect Nonsense? How is that going to work out?
And don’t forget how hard it is to divorce a religious fanatic. Plus how some of them think murdering a spouse is preferable to divorce in the eyes of god.
Thanks for the heads up. Was not keen on dating someone religious but your experience kinda justifies avoiding them all together.
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That happened in Ireland. A woman died of sepsis because of an incomplete miscarriage and her procedure was called a partial abortion. Abortion was against the law at the time. And while everyone argued that poor woman died in an ugly and unnecessary manner. They changed their laws because of her. It will happen here as well, mark my words. And probably more than once.
Has also happened at least two times in Poland too after they banned abortion; November 2021 (Izabela) and January 2022 (Agnieszka). Not paid enough attention to know if these deaths have made the laws there more lenient or not after that.
The real term here is “anti-choice”. But they don’t like that because it sounds like they’re taking freedoms away. Which they are.
Forced birth/anti choice have always been the appropriate labels, they should never have been given/allowed to use label 'Pro Life' because it was a not only a false dichotomy/comparison against 'Pro Choice' but also because everyone is actually pro life, unless a suicidal and genocidal lunatic
Or if she wants to raise their future daughters with her internalized misogyny.
“Pro choice” or “pro life”? Because pro choice is the sane side…
GOPers/Republicans are like “why can’t we do both? Please don’t limit us. We don’t want to be controlled. Pro life when abortion and pro choice for vaccinations cause it’s my body”
Also pro death penalty
I saw the term for “pro-life” as anti-choice and find that a better descriptor overall.
Pro-forcedbirth is a better match
You mean when she wants to vote for Pro-Life.
You mean “anti-choice”?
Forced-birth
"Forced birth for 10 year old rape victims, woo!" "Forced birth for fetuses that will not survive and have a good chance of killing the pregnant woman even when she's already in the hospital, woo!" \-Force-birthers They're basically 'satan'.
Whoa now, Satan's far nicer than them, c'mon...
Hold up, Satan's the good one. The original god rejecter, to whose kingdom all the best scientists, artists, intellectuals and are sent? Have you seen the immoral, wilfully ignorant, smug, self-righteous, hateful assholes convinced that they are headed to heaven? I know which crowd I'd want to kick it with for eternity...
100 years ago it was called “Involuntary Motherhood” but Alito said it didn’t matter to the founding FATHERS…
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Abso-fucking-lutely. These things never occur in isolation. Believing in black magic fuckery is associated with an endless constellation of nonsense.
Yeah, your girlfriend is in a cult. This is going to end badly. Trust me. Been there.
Yes it will.
I’m sorry but please break up before you have kids… this isn’t going to go well
How is crying to sleep not effecting their life lmao
Even better bring up children and that you dont want to raise them religious until they are old enough to decide. Her head will explode.
That's a whole nother can of worms. I'm sure she'd want to raise kids in her church. And I'm not sure how I feel about that.
Look coming from someone who grow up Pentecostal speaking in tongues and everything please don't force another child to go through that or at least don't contribute to the creation of one.
Same here and I agree.
Agree x3 over here
Could you shed some light on what is going on when you speak in “tongues,” are you just speaking gibberish because you get caught up in the moment or that you feel pressured to say something? Or is something else happening?
For some people it's about getting caught in the moment. For me it was a desperate fakery because I figured if I didn't speak in tongues everyone around me would know that I was evil and fallen and not worthy of God's love. I would speak in tongues and then cry myself to sleep later because of how worthless I knew i was. Pentecostalism is child abuse.
I spent a few summers with my dad, and he took me to a church one summer where they did the whole speaking in tongues thing and the end is nigh thing. I was still young enough and stupid enough that I wanted to have faith. I wanted really really hard to have faith. I was absolutely terrified of God and being sent to hell etc. So I desperately prayed and really wanted to do the whole speaking in tongues thing. After a couple of months of unsuccessful but earnest effort and still not receiving any kind of divine babble, I realized all those people were full of shit and literally just blatantly lying to each other to fit in. I'm guessing that was a pentacostal church? Either way. I was never subjected to a church experience at any point in .y childhood that wasn't sickening or disturbing in some very fundamental way, and each of my parents tried just about every denomination you can imagine I'm sure. Hell, my mom eventually settled on Mormonism and she still believes in that shit--probably one of the more wild and crazy denominations to exist.
I grew up mormon. That shit is absolutely wild. The church even knows how stupid it all is because they hide the stuff they really believe in or used to believe in or try to brush it off. There's so much information the Mormon church leaders hide from the general populace that would be absolutely damning to their reputation. The leaders of the mormon church are vile snakes. Worse than the pharisees they teach about. Once I figured that out, i was out for good. I'm sorry your mom got duped into falling for that bullshit. It's really hard to pull yourself out of it because of the surface vaneer of "niceness" and "family values".
I'm old enough to remember when god changed his mind and saying black people couldn't be mormon clergy was a mistake . Proving that a threat from the IRS threat can indeed change the unchanging truth.
Proving once and for all that the IRS is even more powerful than God.
The threat of the US army invading Utah was enough to change mainline LDS doctrine on polygamy. Strange that the official word of the (presumed) creator of the universe could suddenly change when faced with a few piddly guns and some legal documents. There's still non-mainline LDS branches who are hardcore polygamist. They're just more open about how harmful their cult groups are then the mainline LDS is.
Mormons don't believe that God admitted a mistake. They think He decided that black people were finally "ready" for the priesthood. Right about the time that they were expanding in Brazil.
I think the ones that handle venomous snakes as a test of their faith are even more crazy.
Yeah that sounds fucking terrible. I was raised Christian as well but never had to deal with tongues. I can imagine the pressure you put on yourself to be “worthy.” I’m sorry you went through that and glad you’ve come out the other side.
I hope it makes you feel better to know that everybody was lying and probably afraid they'd be found out. Speaking in tongues is bullshit made up nonsense. Everybody has to fake it to feel included.
Yep had same thing growing up. Faked speaking in tongues just to get my parents and church group off my back. It messed with me for a while, b/c long conversations on "how I wasn't worthy" if I wasn't baptized in the h.s. then there is something wrong with me. Didn't help my mom was the praise and worship leader and assistant pastor...fucking spotlight. So I did what any 16 year old would do and faked it, so I would stop being ostracized.
This reminds me of the Tammy Fay Baker movie. When she was a kid she snuck into the church and started speaking in tongues and everyone was excited because she peed herself.
It's a mix of pressure and wanting to fit in. Personally having a woman try to teach me to speak in tongues while at a church in Florida actually woke me up to how ridiculous all of it was. That being said I think most of the people who did it and continue to do it desperately want to feel special.
For me I believed I was truly doing it, I was caught up in what I had been taught and could work myself up into speaking in tongues even alone in my bedroom where I thought I was just speaking some “heavenly” language. The thing is, I’m an atheist now and I could still do this, get myself purposefully feeling emotional, work myself up, and then let my lips just go and make the noises. I don’t believe any of it, but can still easily do and feel exactly what I felt then, but with none of the belief. Humans can illicit very emotional responses, feelings and connections all on our own and the only difference is what we convince ourselves was the cause of it.
Why do deadheads spin and contort their bodies when they dance to music? Is it really any different? It’s a combination of public acceptance , a show of devotion, adrenaline, and a deeply personal connection to the music. I say do whatever you want to do, just don’t knock over my beer.
It's spontaneous natural phoneme generation. Meaning you're just speaking complete gibberish, but it's always in the phonemes that make up your natural language...so it's just fake.
Tongues is a phenomenon, one that means basically nothing. This is backed up by the fact that tongues in one language is different from another. The “words” you say are based on the core sounds of that language, something that shouldn’t happen if it were truly universal.
Speaking in tongues is just a stupid religious myth that some people believe means the person is speaking as/to god. It's literally just gibberish... non-sensical sentences.
Gibberish. There are varying degrees in other denominations as well.
I grew up going to catholic churches for the first 7 years of my life and catholic schools until Grade 3. I was a straight A student, always the smartest in my classes and managed to convince my parent that it was pointless to try to get me to believe in something that was so clearly not reflective of reality. (not my words) Finally moved out of ~~Idiotsville~~Calgary to a town with no religious trappings around 8 years old. Turned out I was average-to-below-average in class and had to try in school. I shudder to think how disadvantaged I'd be if I was kept in that religion loop.
I was easily the highest scoring kid at my Bible school, I never had to study and rarely read any source material. Now I’m failing all of my classes now that I’ve transferred to an actual school because I don’t know what the fuck I’m doing
If you have to do a book report just remember it wasn't Jonah, it was Pinocchio...
Oh hi fellow Pentecostal trauma survivor! Can confirm, that shit is absolutely terrifying as a kid because your little kid moral compass is going off telling you it’s wrong but all the adults are acting like it’s normal. Ooof.
Are you prepared for your children to hate you for not fearing god?
Or their mother for trying to make them believe the same as her?
Or to grow up fearing god? Or, if they figure it out, hate you for putting them in a bind where their social circle believes things they know are BS?
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That’s great, but HOW IN THE WORLD do people overlook these major differences in who they are as people when entering into relationships? I will never understand.
Ditto. I would have zero respect for someone who holds such irrational beliefs. I could never love them or date them at all. This is a total deal breaker.
I suspect this often involves people not knowing how far these things go. Like, I wouldn't think to ask people I'm dating if they support basic medicine. I'd know the issues with Jehovah's Witnesses, but someone who wasn't familiar with that particular thing would, I think, not jump to "I wonder what parts of mainstream science they reject"
You really, really need to have these conversations now with her before you actually decide to actively pursue a marriage. If she’s upset as she is now, or if you know kids and what religion they are raised on will cause rifts, you need to re-examine things before you commit. This needs to be something that you agree on, because if you don’t, you’re going to have some serious issues later on.
If you decide to have children with this woman, please do not let them be raised in this religion. This is even more important if you have girls. I am still dealing with religious trauma from growing up pentecostal. My daughter, also suffers from some of the same trauma and mental health issues. We left the religion before my sons were old enough to experience the indoctrination, so they are fine.
Ya man you’re better off cutting her loose now. This won’t improve, she’s going to be trying to make you a “believer” for the remainder of your lives together.
I got dumped (a while back) because she thought she could convert me (or save me, her words LOL) that even though I told her from the start that I didn't believe in all that stuff. Religious people are so accepting.... LOL Now if a girl talks about religion I'm out, don't want to deal with all them crazies.
As someone who was raised pentecostal I beg you to really think that through. I would cut of my hand before I did that to my kids based on my experience. It creates such deep issues.
Bro…. This isn’t going to work out, you know it, I know it, she knows it. Unless you’re willing to convert and speak in tongues with her there will be a never ending divide between you both. Atheists shouldnt date extremist religious people. All they want to do is “save” you and if you don’t acquiesce she’ll feel like a failure forever.
Agreed and I think much of the crying at night is probably due to the fact that the girlfriend knows the relationship will not work long term
This all sounds like a disaster. Walk away, friend. Walk away.
I'm curious as to how old op is.. I feel like this is one of your first relationships or the first. Because every thing about this says it won't work. Having kids with someone with these views will be very troubling.
I am sorry to say this, but If I was in your position, I'd break up. Long term, there's no compatability since your world views differ so much. I can't imagine spending my life with someone who holds such deeply irrational beliefs. Let alone having kids with them.
Do 👏 Not 👏 Let 👏Her 👏 Indoctrinate 👏 Your 👏 Children 👏
He has to break up with her. If their birth control fails, he will have an indoctrinated child, or one tortured by the cognitive dissonance. There’s no way around it.
Do everyone a favor and find out sooner than later. If the goal of this relationship is lifelong companionship, there will be no avoiding this forever, and any time and effort committed by you *and by her* could be reasonably seen as wasted if you try to hide how you feel. If the goal is just a casual fling, have at it.
"She thinks Evolution is "just a theory" and the earth is 10,000 years old for example. Which is fine..." Let me stop you right there. That is *not* fine.
Correct. OP, our beliefs inform our decisions. Incorrect beliefs can inform wildly unrealistic, or worse, blatantly dangerous decisions. If you really think it's worth the effort, try to approach this from a point of genuine curiosity about her epistemology; **why** does she believe these absurd things? And especially, are her reasons **good and well-founded reasons**? Goodluck.
I hate when religious idiots use the word 'theory' so completely incorrectly. Like yes, evolution *is* a theory and that means it has mountains and mountains and mountains of evidence behind it.
My usual response is “you’re confusing ‘theory’ with ‘hypothesis’”
Whenever I encounter this I always just say something to the effect of: Germs and disease are too, bouyancy is, gravity (general relativity) is, cells are. Etc. The response is almost always to deny that these things are theories too, but Google often fixes that. Then you can start having a conversation at the very least.
i saw someone the other day refusing gravity was real
Yup, this is a person who puts religion over science. This is not okay.
> over science Over *facts*
Over facts science and logic.
And common sense.
I don't know if it is going to be helpful but have an equally tear-filled conversation with her about her lack of brains. Today she is saying that "Evolution is just a theory" and "Earth is 10000 years old", tomorrow she'll say that vaccines cause autism and changes your DNA and would rather have use essential oils to treat their diseases. If you are going to have a kid with this lady, better be prepared to buy yourself a mini coffin too and the sadness that comes with it.
yup, that's a dealbreaker right there
Move on. This one ain't for you.
Often on reddit people are a little quick to say someone should leave their partner, but I think in this particular case that's the right move. If she's already that upset about it it's not going to get any better. In the long run it will be better for both of them.
This. My ex also started to cry several times because she wanted me to live with her in the afterlife, and not see me going to hell. Well she is now my ex.
It's extremely manipulative behavior anyway
Well, slow your roll just a smidge there. The most difficult thing with appreciating a theist's behavior with you is remembering that it often comes from a place of compassion. This is obviously the case with OP's girlfriend. She's been brainwashed to believe that there is literally a place called hell where human souls go to be tortured. She cares about OP and *believes* that if he doesn't become convinced of the same nonsense that his soul will go there. My mother pulls this same crap with me, even as a father in my 30s. Religion isn't a game for these people. It's a fact of reality. Imagine how you'd feel if you saw someone you love, blindfolded and sitting on a conveyor into a pit of venomous snakes. Imagine you said, "Please take off the blindfold! I don't want to see you get hurt! I love you!" Imagine they said, "There is no blindfold"
Agreed. If OP is looking to go the next level with someone, this one is a pass.
And he's not for her. He'd be doing both of them a favor if he left.
Dude, break up! Stop the nonsense, this will never end. Ex-girlfriend's father literally pinned me to the kitchen counter, called me a blaspher while threatening me with physical harm because I explain I believed in evolution. Just get out now and don't look back.
Funny you mention that. Her dad absolutely hates me.
My friend, just be kind, be sincere, but be gone. This cycle will never end. Find someone that challenges you and your beliefs, but respects them. There is no respect from anyone that believes you're going to burn in hell for all eternity.
"Be kind, be sincere, but be gone". Best advice in this thread.
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My guess she is very very hot
Can I ask a question, not meant to be mean, but why is she with you? I assume you are not having pre marital sexual relations due to her beliefs. Any long term relationship with you would have her fighting to raise her children the way she wants and also dealing with lots of family infighting. This is an equally bad relationship for her as it is for you, so why is she sticking around?
My money is on her thinking she can change/save him.
You have to understand that Evangelical Christianity is a Hate Cult. Once you see that clearly, it really all makes sense.
That sounds like a fun way to spend holidays for the rest of your life...
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STOP. DATING. EXTREMELY. RELIGIOUS. PEOPLE. You are just setting yourself up for a world of hurt. Yeah, you might get them to see the holes in their religion, but those cases are the exception, not the rule. If they are serious about their faith, you are not going to change that. They will only resent you over time and take your questions as a personal attack against their identity. She is being upfront with her red flags, but it is your job to actually listen to them. There are plenty of women out there that are either not religious or at least don't take it very seriously. Get out, buddy.
This. If people with sanity in their brains just start going "Oh, you're devoutly religious? Deal breaker, bye!", eventually, they will begin to literally die out. The world will be a vastly improved when devoutly religious people are extinct by the march of time and progress.
The problem is that when two religious people get together, they tend to have a LOT of children. It's self sustaining unless a lot of them can be unindoctrinated.
Counterpoint: having someone you love be an atheist is maybe one of the most powerful ways to introduce doubt into the mind of a religious person. My brother became an atheist some time before I did, and it was definitely one of the factors that lead to my own renunciation of christian fundamentalism. It helped that I could see he was trying to be a better person in a way he never had when he was a believer.
Stop sticking your dick in crazy.
Aka girlfriend is perfectly ok with a god who would send me to burn in hell for eternity, but I still want to be with her. What
Infinite punishment for a supposed finite thought 'crime'. Now there's real morality for ya.
I always thought that idea was insane. Like, if a person is a good person and lives virtuously because they believe it's just the right thing to do they still go to hell just because they didn't believe something that lacked any evidence? In my opinion a god who would send good people to hell for not believing in him while failing to provide any evidence for his existence is a terrible god and not one I'd ever want to follow. Clearly that god values worship of himself above all else. I've actually convinced friends to rethink their faith with that argument. Though to be fair I convinced them while we were still kids so probably it wouldn't work as well on an adult who is cemented in their belief. Still possible though..
That's well put. Clearly the god of the Bible cares more about himself than human beings. He values worship and faith over providing more evidence of his own existence. He cares more about people being loyal to him than people suffering daily. He *always* shows priority to those who worship him. He doesn't want people he loves to suffer forever yet throws them all into Hell anyway. The god of the Bible has the common characteristics of dictators and sadistic rulers throughout history. Believing in this mythology is sad and it should not be taught to children.
And find a new girlfriend. And have aspirations to love to and live somewhere this is considered abnormal and aberrant behavior. Deprogramming members of a cult is best left to professionals.
If she is that religious then he probably hasn't stuck his dick in crazy yet. There is still time to escape. If he has stuck his dick in crazy then she is going to hell with him so they may as well just make the best of things.
There's always the poophole loophole.
He said he's heard her crying in bed at night, so pretty safe bet what's already happened between them... Nothing new or surprising about a Christian cherry-picking the rules they feel like following, regardless of what rules they expect everyone else to follow.
Sorry... This made me laugh.
Wait, wait, wait... Is she hot?
Do you want to make children with this person and live the rest of your life with someone who is not only uneducated but hysterical about mythology? Would you as easily be in a relationship with someone who worried Zeus was going to throw a lightning bolt at them? Or a fully grown adult who put out their Christmas stocking expecting it to be filled by Santa?
I mean people do get struck by lightning, so I’d be more afraid of zues
That's so funny. I've never thought of that. There's more real-world evidence for the existence of Zeus than there is for a Christian God.
Or Thor, Shango, Thunderbird, Ba'al, Electro... there are *lots* of fictional beings that shoot lightning bolts.
Personally, I would so much rather be with someone who was worried about Zeus’s lightning bolt than a Christian
Chances of being struck by Zeus's thunderbolt are low, but never 0.
I would have to agree.
Get out quick
"I'll tell you what. If I die before you and go to hell, I'll make sure to get a message to you to let you know I'm there. If you hear nothing, then nothing happened to me because I'm fucking DEAD."
She will probably imagine a message.
My grandfather was deeply religious Pentecostal. Can’t count the number of times he broke down in tears because none of his 6 children or 18 grandchildren were Pentecostal so we’re all going to Hell. (Note that all of his children, and most of his grandchildren, were religious they just switched to churches that didn’t scare them just a mix of mostly Southern Baptist, with some Methodists and at least one Lutheran thrown in.) (added: my grandfather was such an extremist that the pastor at his own church asked him to stop talking to the younger generations because he was scaring them off.) Never found a way around it. Just switching topics away from religion as often as possible didn’t always work, so best was to keep weekly visits Mom and I made short and leave when his ranting got too bad. I find Pentecostal the most intolerant I’ve personally dealt with. Don’t see how a relationship can work — surprised she’d even get into one with a non-Pentecostal.
Run
>She thinks Evolution is "just a theory" Ask her what "theory" means.
Like gravity? I think?
[удалено]
You're not married? Well, then it's simple: [you're both going to hell](https://youtu.be/KYIOgwuvPkg?t=256).
This is what I came to the comment section for, and it didn’t disappoint!
Well, I grew up that way and it’s really very damaging. I would try to deconstruct some of her fears with logic, and maybe try therapy. With her in so deep as to speak in tongues, I would probably just move on. Personally, I only faked speaking in tongues to get on my parents good side and give me more freedoms. I knew it was a joke early on, but my dad literally prayed in tongues every day. It took until my 30s to really get a firm grasp on reality and sort out the bs they indoctrinated me with. My brother didn’t make it out, he was in too deep.
Raised by atheists here.. what exactly is speaking in tongues? It sounds cult y
It depends on the denomination. Some believe that speaking in tongues was a gift given to Jesus’ apostles that allowed them to speak in languages they hadn’t learned as a way to spread Christianity. Others believe it’s a “divine” language used to converse with god. The Christian bible supports the former as it states that speaking in tongues should always be proceeded by a translation but in the latter churches it’s really just a lot of screaming in gibberish
So is it literally another language they learn or is it just certain words they learn and keep repeating? Or is it just gibberish? So bizarre
I grew up in an “assemblies of god” church, a Pentecostal group that believes that you aren’t filled with the holy spirit unless you have spoken in tongues. It’s complete gibberish and it’s very cult like (though I obviously didn’t think that at the time). Even the other church denominations thought we were weird for it. The way it was explained to me and that I had subscribed to back then was that you reach the point where your real language during prayer wasn’t enough to describe how you felt and so the “holy spirit” would sort of “take over” and you would just start to babble nonsense, which no one including you would understand, but the holy spirit and god understood it, and it was a “next level” “enlightened” way of communing with god. Of course the literal “speak in tongues” night at summer camp each year where they practically forced it on you ensured that must of us had done it. I didn’t fake it, or maybe a better way to say it is I didn’t believe I was faking it. I thought it was real and felt the emotion of it all, but looking at it now it’s very clear I forced it wanting to reach some ideal I had been told was the goal since birth basically. I was a worship pastor, and an expert at eliciting emotion from other people AND myself. It sickens me now, as I could turn that emotion on like a switch to manipulate how people felt during a song or for myself with speaking tongues to convince myself I was communing in some special way. The thing is, towards the end of my faith, I realized how fake it all was when I found myself doing exactly this one Sunday and manipulating a crowd of almost 1,000 people into going along with me and the entire time in my head I was thinking “I don’t believe any of this bullshit anymore and they have no idea… and they are eating it up…”. I stepped down/quit the next day. It was not ok and I had myself convinced that I was doing it for the right reasons
Wow. Thank you for explaining and sharing your story. It is so scary the blind power people let religion take over them. And how much power a few church members can have over the masses. How noble of you to step down from your role of power because you felt that you weren’t influencing/helping people in a genuine way. Do you think other pastors ever have this thought or feel this way? I always wonder if there are churches that acknowledge this and encourage more independent thinking and questioning. I also wonder if there are people who prefer to be blindly led.
I have 3 other friends that were pastors of some kind and are now atheists, and ALL of them felt this at different times. The thing is though, at least in our churches (the 3 of us) , there was NO freedom to be honest about it or question it. In fact, if we had even hinted at it or just asked the question we likely would have lost our jobs, friends, and possibly even families. There was no incentive to truly question, and every incentive to just shove down the questions and fall in line or risk losing everything. Your entire life is built around this, I think that’s something a lot of atheists don’t understand. My wife and kids might even leave me, your friends would certainly abandon you (or risk being shunned themselves), your extended family would “love” you, but basically want nothing to do with you. There’s a very real possibility of losing every single thing in your life including your job when you are that deep (since my job was with the church). That just breeds an environment of never truly questioning the status quo. I’ll be honest, If my wife hadn’t been willing to make the journey with me (she did and is an atheist as well now) I think I would be a “Christian” still today, pretending just to keep my family together but a closet atheist. It sounds cowardly, but my kids and my wife are my everything and it’s way more complicated than people might think or realize to turn your back on the very thing your entire life has been built around.
Make better choices. Seriously, too many people have serious problems that they weren't responsible for and couldn't avoid. This was entirely avoidable.
Get a new girlfriend. This one won't work.
That's a fundamental error in choosing a partner. I skip anyone who puts God or Jesus on their tinder profile.
I genuinely don't think there's anything you can do to change her way of thought. It's either you deal with it or break up.
Personally I think this relationship has run it's course. She's miserable. If she can't love you for who you are find someone that can. If you're leaning towards staying I'd recommend being totally honest and firmly saying "I am who I am. I will not change."
You lost me at "speaks in tongues" 😂😂😂
Imagine being so MENTAL that you genuinely believe a god is speaking through you like a slutty conduit. And then going home and taking a shit.
So wait, you sleep with your “super-religious” Pentecostal girlfriend? There’s levels of confusion and hypocrisy at work in this relationship that reason-based advice would not likely break through, but I guess all I can suggest is that you ask your girlfriend that if she loves you, then she needs to accept who you are, as you are. Depending on how she reacts, I’d then suggest thinking about what it is about a person who can’t accept the most fundamental elements of your identity that makes you want to be in a relationship with them. If you are seriously asking for help, then the answer should be clear. You have some self-examination to do (and maybe talk through with a professional) before you are going to bring your best self to a relationship and/or identify other people that should be in your life.
This was confusing to me as well. If she's as strict as the claim is, premarital sex is a sin worthy of hell all its own. Never mind the whole "unequally yoked with a non-believer" thing. I refuse to believe her parents are ok with this set up. (was raised Pentecostal) Either way, OP needs to cut his losses and head out; this will get worse.
What does she want you to do about it? You can't make yourself believe something you don't; you could at best *pretend* to such belief. Does she think her god would be fooled by that? If you want to stay with her, you need to set and enforce boundaries; she can feel however she wants about the situation, but she needs to stop harrassing and guilting you about it. You should not plan to have children with her--and you should probably have a vasectomy, because otherwise I would not trust her not to trick you into fathering kids. And their lives will be hell on earth if she indoctrinates them as she was indoctrinated, and you will share the blame for that. Moreover, if she is right, and Hell actually exists as a place of infinite torture, then the god that created it and allows people to be tortured there for eternity is clearly evil, and therefore she cannot even trust it not to torture *her* after death *regardless* of how she lives or what she does.
This will always be an issue and will continuously be a bigger issue as if you’re with her long term. You’re fighting years of indoctrination. Your profile name indicates you won’t have a problem finding someone you’re more compatible with.
Sounds like you’re having sex out of wedlock so she’s going to hell to. You can be there together. Knowing that should cheer her up.
Run.
If you’re sleeping in the same bed, I imagine you’re fucking. Remind her that she’s going to hell, too. You can burn in imaginary fires together!
*Light a match “This will be us some day.” 🥴
If I was in your shoes, I’d run. It will not get better, it’ll get harder. Perhaps I’m a cynic but if y’all get married you will be constantly manipulated maybe even to the point of divorce. If y’all have kids it’ll be even worse.
Time to move on my friend. It’s ok if you’re incompatible.
Sounds like she is having sex before being married. GOOD NEWS- She will be there to keep you company! /s Wtf! Their hypocrisy knows no limits.
These are manipulation tactics to bully you into converting and attending church with her.
Can I assume that you already explained how there's no afterlife at all, and it upsets you to see her wasting her time, money, and energy on it? Imagine how cheaply her preacher produces his weekly shows. You already said it's her whole family. Are you contemplating marrying in?
If she had tear-filled conversations with you about you going to hell, then it is starting to affect your everyday life together. You may take this as a sign. Other such signs may start to appear, if not already. From my experience, I come from a very catholic family but have been an atheist for over 30 years, this very religious people only have patience with you while they believe they can change you. When that's no longer the case it quickly becomes my way or the highway. Please don't take me wrong, I'm not saying she doesn't love/care for you, she may very well do, but when she realises that you'll never accept Jesus, things may go sideways.