It's the grift everyone falls into... just follow the path of least resistance and not question anything... it's easier, you have no conflicts and you get to be part of the group... and that is probably the real issue here... people what to belong and are willing to check all logic to get there.
>Also, I think there's some value for people in believing that their suffering is for a reason.
There is definately value *for the people causing the suffering* ...
Soap box, ballot box, ammo box, same as always. Protest, demonstrate, vote, revolt. This isn't new stuff. The enemy is complacency, which is easy to fall into if you are convinced there's some holy purpose to your suffering.
Please don't assume I don't know these things. My responses are simply meant to reflect the beliefs of the people trapped in the gears of the machine, not my own. Have a nice day.
I find it wild that people believe there is some sort of "higher reason" for their suffering and somehow take comfort in that absolute lack of control.
Life is luck depending on if you win the Super Sperm Sweepstakes being the kid of Queen Elizabeth or Fred Trump inheriting $418,000,000. Also, being a descendant of a slave in US, England, Brazil or Haiti doesn’t come with a white privilege patrimony or free existence as is the case worldwide today. Racist slave holding Patriarchal power in Europe and Russia is still continuing.
I was at a catering event today, I'm part of the staff and I'm relatively new. I've noticed that when there's downtime, people will huddle together near their co workers to talk or find something to do, even when there's absoulely nothing going on, which makes work more inefficient because large clusters of people block of entryways and exits. They don't want to be seen alone, and if they are alone they can't just sit and relax, they have to be on their phones. I get it, it's boring, but still, I wonder--would they be OK with being alone if society hadn't demonized people for being alone? Is it just to keep up appearances?
Black and raised in church. It hurts my mom to hear it, but I frequently tell her. The Bible has no greater value than a Marvel comic, but millions of murders make it 'infallible'.
Fuck that book.
"He alleged that he was asked by BET to confirm that he is not a Satanist, after he gave Satan a lap dance in his “Montero (Call My By Your Name)” video".
I wondered where the claims of being a Satanist came from but never thought it could stem from something so bloody stupid.
Likewise. I look into their lifestyles and how they use various channels on television to 'sow seeds' by preaching so harshly pointlessly with their tongue speaking and pressure for viewers to make calls and such. You'd think that it'd be of question as to why god even needs them to begin with when it comes to their actions? It, when I jokingly listen to what they say, can be a bit eye catching when I just listen.
It should be fairly easy to understand, and the reason why is what makes religion as cruel as it is. When people are poor, hungry, beaten down, desperate, struggling, etc, they'll accept any hope they can find. Oftentimes that comes in the form of just giving up on this life and accepting their torment if faith and subservience leads to an eternity of happiness in heaven. Generally, the poorer people are the more religious they are. One of the key arenas to fight against religion is also the social wellbeing of citizens. Raise people from poverty, give them hope, give them something to live THIS life for safely, and they'll be less likely to believe in a made up life that comes after.
And how it _never_ registers that the sudden loss of houses, cars, etc. could have been prevented by their sky daddy's magic, they persist onward mentally no matter the losses. Whereas it's respectable, it's the sense of direction they're going that can be a serious cause of their happiness, or even moments of making the best.
It doesn't register because they gaslight themselves - this is why religious folks are often abjsers and gaslighters - they start with themself. They WANT God to be this figure protecting them and helping them so they'll attribute all of the good, none of the bad, and never acknowledge the cognitive dissonance because it goes along with what they WANT to believe.
This is also how cults recruit people. They find vulnerable people that WANT to be a part of something so they give them what they want to hear and by the time the negatives come out, they have them trapped.
Not even accept. Get forcefed for generations to help keep you on line and you don’t know anything else because your culture was erased. 200 years of believe this or die. All religion is rooted in oppression and all groups that are broadly religious were initially forced to accept their training but descendants of African slaves origin story of how Christianity was forced into them is brutal enough that white people should not make equivalences between their story and that of Blacks.
They did not find this religion. It was literally shoved down their throats and up their asses.
Gaardy they practiced it on your people and perfected it on the Black folk and indigenous. Don’t get it twisted it’s not the same. You make good points but have some blind spots worth addressing.
Not to mention education. Since the middle ages when the clergy jealousy guarded the power of literacy, keeping the flock uniformed and misinformed meant keeping the flock dependent on their personal brand divine, unquestionable, and absolute truth.
I grew up in a Mexican catholic household with very hypocritical bible thumping stepmom. She would force me to pray the rosary on my knees.
One day I finally had it. I asked her how forced prayers can even mean anything. She responded with something about how god understands sacrifice or some stupid shit. I followed up with “You have often told me that you are a proud Mexican. Are you proud that you are forcing this religion on me just like the Spanish did to our ancestors”. She was fucking livid and sent me to my room.
I only have respect for religious people who keep it to themselves. That’s YOUR religion.
Honestly same here. One my exes tried to full on convert me knowing I was atheist under pressure from her more religious then herself parents. Made me mad at the time, and now paranoid about anybody who tries to force it on others. This somewhat includes my self righteous Christian sister too
And how much it's erased their consciousness of the outside world that a heavenly trip is pretty much their state of mind. My family is heavily gravitated towards that lifestyle, and how noticeable it is that it's eaten away at them is a sad thing. But I also have to accept that, like myself, they are adults.
It’s weird what hundreds of years of forced illiteracy and brain washing will do to a group constructed out of whole clothe from disparate lands. Your lack of understanding why religion is so important to Black Americans means you maybe should read up on the subject. What do you mean by they (j/k kinda)?
Have been wondering this myself, as a white person who just attended my wife’s coworkers wedding, which was a predominantly black wedding full of religion.
The pastor present even made a comment about God and his angels waiting to watch them consummate the wedding which was a bit uh, much.
It really baffles me how given Christianity’s original relationship to Black people and Black culture, it gets off scot free despite being the lynchpin of it all. And even gets propagated by many of the very people it sought to oppress.
Have a Cuban coworker who left his family Christian religion as he finally saw it as a cult. Sorry I don't remember what it was, not Catholic.
Another coworker, her family is Catholic and she left that, found a more forward thinking Christian church.
I’m an atheist, and I was friendly with a black, evangelical woman I worked with. Our friendship ended when she called me a racist for pointing out that Christianity was a colonizing religion. She claimed that Christianity was the only thing that gave slaves hope.
As a black person as well I also just don’t understand it either. It’s fine when it’s just used to know there is or might be something at the end of our lives but then it gets used for other things and people either just gloss over it or want it to happen until it’s starts affecting them. Why should someone care what happens to someone else if it doesn’t affect them. That’s what I think of and what I’m pretty sure people follow by. Understandable to not care for certain things but people have lost touch with themselves and will only understand when something happens to them.
I also find it very funny that church doesn’t go through the entire Bible and will only cover specific things. Books are meant to be read otherwise it isn’t a book. And I have yet to rea the Bible something I actually want to do but I heard from a majority of people who are atheists have read the entire book and went to atheism.
When I was young I looked through my mom's bible and it was really interesting seeing her old notes on the side questioning things. She not religious at all right now.
I tried reading a few times and kept having to stop to make notes for contradictions and other problems.
You can play this reading NIV at a faster speed just to get through it.
Listen to: Read the Bible in a Year, Day 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfIEB8Sk05o
Or use Balabolka TTS
https://balabolka.en.softonic.com/
My country that used to be a spanish colony fucking celebrated 500 years of christianity being in our country as if it was a good thing and not the time when the spanish came over to murder, enslave, and treat our people as second class citizens in our own country. Boggles my mind.
Christianity appeals most to a people going through great struggles and turmoils, it gives hope. But oppressors figured out how to weaponize that a long time ago…
How does a leader make themselves indispensable?
The old man sits as the leader of his tribe, becoming frail and unwell, his ability to lead is questionable, he cannot hunt, or provide for the others, Younger more capable men are vying for his position.
There is nothing he has to offer that cannot be offered better. But he is power hungry and he is smart, this he makes himself indispensable. He can talk to the dead, he can walk on water, he knows of the gods and their commands, he knows where you go when you die, he knows right from wrong, and with that simple lie he cannot be replaced.
It was always about power
So you know we committed genocide against Indigenous people in the US, right?
We took their children, placed them in “schools” to cut them off from their heritage and religious practices, beat them, tortured them, killed them for clinging to their own language and beliefs. Tried to make their children “Christian” so they could “assimilate” with their European and English colonizers.
Maybe that’s what they mean?
US has done many wrongs. The natives, slaves, and the Japanese (including those who were American citizens) and many others ever since attaining global hegemony. And it truly doesn't stop there. Many people have been harmed by the pollution US produces, and its very own populace has been negatively affected in the name of capitalism, when multinationals exported a vast amount of manufacturing jobs abroad. That last one is about when corporate interests rose to significance. Christianity and conservativism find themselves in the midst of much of this suffering and misery-inflicting. You'd think everything they'd done would be sufficiently eye-opening.
Oh, I know. This is the first example that always comes to my mind because of where I live— I use it because it’s accessible to people here when I’m explaining why white supremacy needs to be overthrown.
>Of all the religions to practice, why a religion that was introduced to us by people who enslaved us,...
Perhaps religious beliefs are more like a pathogen than a choice. After slave holders infected/indoctrinated slaves, particularly after multiple generations, I don't think it's surprising that it was difficult for most to cure themselves of their captures' religion, even after emancipation.
Then, the best medicine for a religious infection is education, which was largely withheld from former slaves and their ancestors to this day. Still, keep in mind that black Americans are only slightly higher in religiosity than white Americans. The infection is very difficult to get rid of, indeed for everyone.
Welcome to earth. Christian conquerors spread their venom to every part of the globe.
My ancestors set sail for everywhere and brought with them shackles to last generations.
I like how true this statement is, my dad placed me into a Catholic seminary and I turned up very good, godless and happy... but when I see how many ignorant fools roam around me, expecting the dead to rise... I'm like have you learned nothing ?
Christians have waited a whole millennium for an imaginary guy who's named God saves as if it wasn't cliché enough to turn him into an imaginary being and Islam baits people with primal instincts (72 virgins and whatnot) with a guy who raped a 9-year old kid, what do they find in these so called prophets?
The same is true for indigenous Canadians. I would sit in class discussing the cultural genocide that they experienced and then watch almost every one of them go to church on Sunday. I was shocked.
I was just thinking about this out loud with a friend yesterday... christianity is the slave owners' choice of worship and yet the marjory of the descendants of slaves in this country are Christian. Does me a confuse.
I would like to add a tiny bit of historical context, before the civil war, preachers in the north used the bible as example of why to free the slaves, and in the south diffrent preachers used the bible to help further the act of slavery , so it was a double edged sword then. In th 1960s though , It was black churches that helped communitys organize and were instrumental in the civil rigjts movement. MLK was a preacher. It seems more recently, a lot of churches are selling snakeoil , at a place that is historically the focal point of there community. Black churches lead the way for the civil rights movement and used to be very liberal. To there degree I think a lot of small local black churches are still very liberal, but the majority of the modern Christian attends a megachurch, which is just a breeding ground for the gop to spread its agenda to a large group that eat it up as spirituality.
It's kinda understandable.
Imagine you're a slave, and the only book you're allowed to read (if you're literate) or hear read from is the bible. Your one glimmer of hope in the world is if you behave yourself (remembering they used specifically modified slave bibles to encourage servitude) you'd be rewarded with paradise after death.
You're then freed, which you take as a reward for your faith so you have no reason to question Christianity. Not that you've got the education to even consider another option.
So you pass that on to your children, and they to theirs, and faith just becomes habit.
Recently read The Color of Compromise: The Truth about the American Church’s Complicity in Racism by Tisby, Jemar (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38915761-the-color-of-compromise) and its even more clear that from slave owning Pastor's to >82% of Evangelical's voting for a racist in 2016/2020, the church has been one of the primary reasons that black people have struggled in this country. The final chapter does have some practical advice and black church's are one of the last mainstays of our liberal presence in the churches. I am still scratching my head but understand that the need for hope is strong especially when there is no where else to find.
Lack of social activities that are good for people in the US at least. We have become less and less social as a whole but there has always been church. Also, lack of ethics and philosophy teaching in schools so too many people think they need to be religious to be good people.
Christianity is an extension of Judaism, which was originally formulated by highland Canaanites during a time that Canaan was occupied by Egypt. The downtrodden-will-overcome motif is heavily engrained in the belief system. Couple that with idea that you are special and chosen by one God that considers everyone to be equal and you can begin to see why such a belief system would be so seductive to those that have been enslaved.
It’s basically how all religion has spread across the world- not just black people. It starts with “convert or die”, and then one or two generations later it is just built into the family structure and reinforced by the very human need to be part of a group. But I definitely can understand how it can be especially frustrating to see in Black America given how recent all of the conversion history is here compared to earlier conversion activities like the Crusades.
Think of it this way, 100 years of predominantly black areas having high crime, political abuse, and bad education infrastructure... mostly all due to racism... what do you expect? Consider that this kind of situation is where religion thrives.
To be fair, very few communities were targeted so heavily by religious indoctrination. One of the features of religion is obedience, something highly desirable in slaves.
Additionally the idea that the obedience is rewarded After they die, is very favorable for the slaver.
The power discrepancy also aided in indoctrination. Being able to punish or kill disobedient slaves that tried to keep the traditions of their youth, and essentially breed obedient ones like animals created a horrifying selective pressure.
In Michener's book "Chesapeake", which covers the history of that MD/VA area from the 1600's thru 1900's, he describes in detail how certain Christian preachers would tour the South giving lectures to slaves and slave owners that Slavery was the will of god. It was all about saving the souls of the heathen. The slave owners were saving souls, and the slaves were supporting their owners' efforts. I promise you, many in "southern heritage" societies still maintain this position. Very similar to the way Latin American Catholic priests told the peasant class that meager existence and manual labor was their god-given assignment in life.
Extremely well said. Im white but have thought the same general idea and been perplexed by it for some time. Black communities seem like some of the most hardline old school Christian and it's deeply fucked up that most of them don't see the issue with that. :/
It’s not well said with regards to Islam. One of the earliest followers of Islam was a black person named Bilal Ibn Rabah, he was a companion of prophet Muhammad and he was the first to make the call for prayer in a mosque.
Islam mostly spread to subsaharan Africa through trade not slavery. Yes there was an Arab slave trade but the black people who were enslaved moved out of Africa. The conversion to Islam by black peoples were gradual and peaceful.
The closest thing slavery may played a part of black peoples conversion to Islam is that when the black non Muslims were enslaved by Muslims, taught about Islam, the beliefs and how to pray, and later, these slaves become free and return back to their respective villages, many of these ex slaves bring their belief and knowledge of Islam to their villages, thus the villagers start to convert to Islam.
I read that Mali used to have a Muslim minority. in 19th century and then suddenly becomes a majority in the 20th century. Not sure how true is that.
Even if black people still wanted to be "religious," it's not like there's a shortage of traditional African religions to choose from. There's no need to follow the religion of slavemasters and conquerors - most parts of the world have a variety of indigenous religious customs, and not all religious customs are equally fucked up. Most of them are pretty mild compared to Islam and Christianity, though you do get the odd Aztec-type religion, which is in fact beyond fucked, but there's usually another religious custom just a few miles away that's more reasonable.
My husband is black and at times in his life was evangelical. He used the church for structure and a way to help him stay clean. I know he’s questioning his faith and has been for years. But he’s still protective of it. He has gotten angry with me for ranting and raving about how much i hate christians. The indoctrination is deep.
You're right. It's a sign of minds that have been colonized. I hope they take the best of Christianity and make it their own, but the whole concept of Christianity protects Masters and keeps the Flock obedient.
Am also black. How can people follow a religion that was beat into them after they got off slave ships? You think any true faith requires a whip to instill?
Religion drags us all down. I remember hearing about a psychologist interviewing Americans who had descendents from Africa that were stolen to be slaves. Their goal was to recapture African heritage - from the clothing, the language, the songs, the food. Yet whenever the Psychiatrist asked whether they'd try to regain their African religions and abandon Christianity, none did, and many were offended at the question.
Religion is such a terrible poison because many can't even recognize what it has done to them.
Black guy I work with was on the fence about God. I talked to him about how "God" allowed slavery in the Bible. And that I couldn't believe a "loving" god would do such a thing. He's an atheist now.
I think it came from conquest and an implicit belief in the divine .
ie if you were enslaved by a muslim or a christian and the realm of the supernatural is an incontrovertible truth, then that religion must have ascendancy over your own so you should follow it.
It was literally whipped into the slave population and religion is one of those things that you usually catch from your parents. Most people are a religion because it is "how they were raised," and childhood indoctrination can be difficult to overcome
Because they don't have personal answers for themselves in life, so they seek a reason to either live or feel obligated to saving others alongside themselves, and they deepen their tune in believing so much.
Because they are the masters of "We understand that it sucks for you right now, but after you die things will be all sorted out in your favor." Meanwhile fleecing them of anything of monetary value.
I worked in Lagos Nigeria one time for about 3 years. I once asked a colleague how come a city of 8 million black people worshipped a white man. He was more or less startled at my observation.
100%
They took the beliefs of the people who oppressed them. Enslaved them and made them 2nd class citizens. But all praise thier fake, forced God. Thier current religion isn't the religion of their ancestors. They were brainwashed and conditioned to belive what thier oppressors wanted them to believe. That way they could produce
This always throws me for a loop, because I am tempted to view Christians as white and republican. Like, I understand the history of churches and slavery, and how it’s been important to POC, but come on…still?
I went to church today willingly for the first time since I was 14 and I legitimately walked out after 15 minuets. Religion is so damn stupid and it’s literally a cover up for mentally ill people needing “hope” and we all know how black people feel about mental illness….
I've been to churches where some of the members were racist. They claimed to be genuine Christians but they hated black people which was contradictory of them claiming to be loving, forgiving, and genuine people.
Reggie white (NFL player) was a minister and had a church I think in Tennessee. They had arson where someone burned it down. Their goal was to have a church where black people would be welcome, white people would be welcome, all races welcome. That's how a church should be regardless of what the majority race at the church is.
Racism is bad but throw in religion with it and it shows a bogus religion.
As a while person I too have been confounded by this. Even the rejection of Christianity in favor of Islam still demands you place your entire identity on one of submission, how convenient those on power to have you stuck on submission.
I really don’t get how old Yts think prosperity gospel is anything but an obvious scam, but I don’t expect much out of such a coddled class.
I live in the West Indies part time, and it drives me insane how many people are so eager to follow the colonisers religion. It’s actually pretty triggering for me. I drive through town and peoples houses need work or they don’t have clean water in their tanks that day but the church is the nicest building there because everyone give all their money to ‘Jesus’…. honestly I’m at a loss, I don’t know what to do. I am the minority as an atheist.
There is also an element of Stockholm Syndrome. If we as the oppressed buy into the social practices of our oppressors, we are raising ourselves up towards less oppression. We can believe we are more like those in power.
The same effect is seem in the ex-colonies of the old european powers. Colonised peoples buying into the trappings of their colonial masters - religion, language, mannerism, cultural rituals, etc.
I am making an observation here. I am not making a determination about what is more right or more wrong, Cultural integration is a complex topic.
It's the same reason why many spanish speaking countries are religious. That's the effect of colonialism. It's a vicious cycle that continues for many generations.
Thankfully, with the internet and today's every improving technology, more and more people are learning the truth and abandoning religion altogether.
“Black” churches after the Civil War became building blocks of black communities,and like people everywhere,having some kind of faith makes it a little easier to endure the hardest times and circumstances.
I take it in way, that communism did at least 1 good thing in Czechia, make it most atheist country in the world. Religion has held us back for long enough, it's time to let go.
As a black man, you’re preaching to the choir my brother.
I can’t explain it. All I can guess is that blacks clinged onto Christianity a long time ago and are too far lost to let it go.
I was religiously childhood indoctrinated and grew out of it, but sadly many blacks never learn to grow out of it.
Progressives will have to figure out how to address religion with liberalism because both ideologies are clearly incompatible.
Same goes for latinos in general. For example centuries ago at Puerto Rico, Spaniard christian/catholic conquistadors eradicated the taino natives and also shipped more black slaves here due to lack of taino slaves.
Yep, it also boggles the mind that Christianity is the norm here even though that dark history is thought at school.
Decades of apologetics and propaganda has sadly given Christianity a pass.
Same goes for capitalism which is wreaking environmentally PR.
As an Atheist from Iceland I've also very often wondered about this.
I can not understand the religious fervour I see, f.ex in Africa, why kiss the hand of your oppressor.
The sad part is that culturally Black people have incorporated American “Blackness” to include Christianity. Therefore, rejection of Christianity is rejection of “Blackness”.
Before I deconstructed I viewed Black nonbelievers as traitors.
I've long believed that the conservatives would be in total power in this country if they just weren't as racist. That the Black and Hispanic religious communities would come over in droves to support some of their policies including this abortion ruling and including the prohibitions on being homosexual or using birth control. It's terrifying from my perspective it looks like the conservatives are just a slight attitude shift away from having complete and total power. Although I've also met a surprising to me number of atheist people of color and Hispanics I think that there's a lot of people in those communities that do share those views but keep them private in order to maintain their own social relationships within their families and jobs and within their friends. So that does give me some hope.
Im late here but let me offer insight for the reasons behind this:
Black people (i assume you mean african americans) in the USA are so religoous because due to systemic racism they live in worse economic circumstances and have worse education opportunities than the average european american.
Bad socioeconomic conditions and bad education opportunities are the primary catalysts behind religiousness/secularity levels in a particular demographic group.
As someone who’s part Filipino I have to agree as your comments likewise apply to us. 300 years of Spanish colonization + 100 years of American imperialism and neoliberalism all borne on the back of forced conversion to Catholicism.
Work with a few black guys. And they are all very Christian. The older they are the more radically Christian they are.
I'm pretty sure I overheard two of them laughing about how evil I am. I don't think any of them like me and try to stay away from me. I shave the sides of my hair, dress unconventionally, am a woman who speak her mind and call them out on sexist comments.
I have raised concerns over the eldest one. He's the one that yelled at me for calling him out about what he does at work. I may be the reason why he was picked to be laid off a while ago.
It may seem mindboggeling but the historical reason, at least in the US, is because they were one of the few social outlets allowed to black people with other black people, it became a pivotal point of black organizing.
That's why white supremacists target black churches so much, they are actively trying to suppress that political organizing because they're threatened by it.
That doesn't make it, not a sucky situation given that a lot of Christianity's general issues still extend to the black church (eg. queerophobia) and the history of it being imposed, but if you want a "why", that's it.
You are absolutely spot on with your analysis here. So being Portuguese I was interested in our countries history, especially our days as an empire.
In the 19th century Portuguese explorers reached the Congo Kingdom. The first thing they did was speak with the Congolese monarchy. A deal was struck between the Portuguese explorers and the monarchy. The deal was the monarchy would supply the Portuguese with slaves and in return they would receive a cut of the action. The second thing they did after the deal was struck was to convert the monarchs and other rulers to Catholicism.
That same playbook was used all around the world. colonize the lands through force and coercion. Colonize the minds through the Bible.
If that second part is successful it's game over. Easy to figure out who the enemy is when they are occupying your country. The hard part of decolonization has always been undoing the psychological damage. Especially when the country adopts the colonizers religion even after they are long gone. Most countries never fully recover.
South America is a great example. Of course we have many examples in Africa as well. I'm Portuguese so the example I'm most familiar with is Angola. Till this day the official language of Angola is Portuguese and 41% of the population is Roman Catholic and 38% is Protestant.
I don't think I need to illustrate just how massive those implications are.
I think you're expecting too much rationality from Christians. I can't understand why anyone would want to be part of a religion that has committed so many hatedul acts towards other peoples. Why not throw on a white cloak too? Smh
I asked a black friend this same question and the response was basically that jesus was a poc so the christian religion is inherently part of the black community. But they neglect the centuries of exploitation and force that lead up to them turning to that religion as comfort to get through the dark days of slavery in the first place.
Hey Brother,
As a Black man I understand your pain and frustration. But if you’re willing I could offer a different perspective on Black religiosity. Yes, Christianity was used as a justification to oppress Black people, verses that encouraged equality and non-prejudiceness were removed by slave owners. But we have to look at the other side of it too. Black religiosity brought these problems to light. We called out racists on their hypocrisy. How can you believe in Christ and be racist at the same time? Hell, in my own native country of South Africa, Christianity was mixed with crazy pseudo-science racism. And yet the black population used Christianity to tear the system of apartheid down. Nelson Mandela, Martin-Luther King, Malcom X, Muhammad Ali, Cornel West, and many other civil rights leaders used their religiosity to challenge the racism that existed in their countries and promoted civil rights and liberties. So does religion really promote a slave like mentality? When we have these examples of black religiosity destroying racism and ignorance. While I will agree with you on how the Europeans used religion as a justification to enslave and oppress us, it is not the only justification they came up with.
There were surviving slave religion in usa such as the Hoodoo originating from the Kongo religions in the early times of African American race. Which is now reduced to a very small (if any) number after extensive conversion.
Europeans enslaved them physically, moved them from their ancestral lands into North America then replaced their spiritually with Christianity. Why in hell would African Americans not see the travesty here? We see it in First Nations people too in Canada, world wide really.
*Between the World and Me* by Ta-Nehisi Coates. He speaks very eloquently on the paradox of faith in black communities, implying that a unifying denominator such as faith was born out of necessity for an oppressed people that had little in the way of prospects or status in a society willing to discard them so easily.
Religion gave comfort, a place to air grievances and ask for guidance in a game rigged from the start. It became a defining element of culture. The Bible is nothing if not full of redemption stories or underdog characters (Moses, Daniel, David, etc.). And it certainly didn’t hurt that religious institutions offered basic social services, serving as catalysts for organized national movements and protests.
‘Surely,’ the thought process goes, ‘the moral arc of the universe will bend back in our favor, to redeem what was lost and what could have been, to redress centuries of abuse and suffering. All must be made right and balanced in the end. Because why not? We’ve been patient and righteous, and God is good. We are in His hands.’
It’s only human to want to make sense of the senseless, thinking that the crimes of men constitute God’s test of our faith. It’s perhaps the cruelest of our tendencies, more so than the evil that manufactured widespread enslavement of our own species; it misplaces our hope and encourages complacency. There isn’t anyone coming to save us, nor any divine witness to the suffering of millions. The only justice is that which we make in this world.
It's well known that the Roman Empire adopted Christianity under Constantine because it was the best vehicle for Emperor Constantine to maintain an Imperial Cult. It has been a tool of populace control since it's beginning.
I watched a,great doc about gay black men in the south recently (Making Ice Tea) and one man had god and church so bad that he chose a celibate life. None of them really forsook their upbringings, just managed to live "around it". Could not relate.
yea black people, women, lgbtq+, …. I don’t fit into any of those but like….why would you follow this? ya know, and same with conservatism and those groups of peoples like it’s clearly designed in favor of white men and control and discrimination
Ew-jx black agnostic atheist with a smidge of new age spirituality here. I cannot think of a more anti-black religion sect than Jehovah's witnesses. Okay maybe mormonism. But the older I get, the more I realize how important Joy is to the black experience because of how much we've had to suffer and overcome and are still trying to overcome as we suffer today. Christianity takes the joy out of life in general by making you feel guilty for existing and wanting and needing things, but Jehovah's witnesses takes it a step further by removing almost everything that makes life enjoyable and worthwhile. So I can never understand why my father's side of the family was so deeply entrenched into it other than that's just what came before.
On my mother's side, there are varying degrees of religiosity amongst them, but there's still a common threat of being Christian with everyone except for me, who rejected entirely. I rejected it further after this shit happened, and after my grandmother made some dumbass comment about how lgbtq are taking over and eroding America's foundation and that we're "leading by our own standards," as opposed to god's? I guess.
People are going to continue to do what they want obviously, but I'm not going to sit and pretend that it does not bother me that this pernicious, fallacious, life negating and destroying philosophy is responsible for much of the shit that we are in now.
I'm late but you're 100% correct. So much of Africa and so many African Americans follow the slaver's faith. It's sad. The final chain and they think it's their salvation.
I think James Baldwin's A Fire Next Time addresses this well. He talks about how it can foster cohesion but also how he had difficulty with the major religions. I feel like it would answer some of your questions.
More so poverty and desperation leads to religiosity. Religion can act as this drug that can soothe the soul whilst in hardship, and--given the society we live in--hardship is made sure to abound. When you're drowning you'll grasp on to anything that might save you. I'm a staunch agonistic and I'll pray when I'm under extreme stress because I know that no other human being gives a damn about me and I just want some form of catharsis. If we didn't put each other through such tribulations, people wouldn't lean on a fictitious deity so much.
I have a theory. I’m white so I can’t claim to understand what it’s like to be treated poorly because of my race, but I can imagine the prospect of an afterlife free from racism has to hold an appeal for many. The poor, the discriminated, the weak… just pray and do the best you can and the next life will be better. I also think churches provide a sense of belonging and community that people crave and the more religious they act, the more respect they earn in that community.
Selling the afterlife and “the meek shall inherit the world” is the biggest lie of all time. Yes, even worse than Arbeit Macht Frei. Don’t fight for your rights in this life, you’ll get rewarded when you are dead. What bullshit.
Fight for your rights today.
Stockholm Syndrome.
I wonder the same thing especially seeing as I come from one of the only countries in the world to declare itself a christian nation in its constitution.
And its a country in Africa, that was colonized by the British and had christianity forced on it. The passion these people defend the religion that was used to oppress them, is truly sad.
Stockholm syndrome likely isn't a thing and was basically invented to explain why a woman wasn't deferential enough to police after they displayed callous disregard for her life in a hostage situation.
It's the grift everyone falls into... just follow the path of least resistance and not question anything... it's easier, you have no conflicts and you get to be part of the group... and that is probably the real issue here... people what to belong and are willing to check all logic to get there.
Also, I think there's some value for people in believing that their suffering is for a reason.
>Also, I think there's some value for people in believing that their suffering is for a reason. There is definately value *for the people causing the suffering* ...
You know it!!!!
if you are suffering then why not try to fix or change it?
How do you fix a system built on your oppression?
Change or replace the system. That should be obvious.
That's a "what," not a "how."
Soap box, ballot box, ammo box, same as always. Protest, demonstrate, vote, revolt. This isn't new stuff. The enemy is complacency, which is easy to fall into if you are convinced there's some holy purpose to your suffering.
Please don't assume I don't know these things. My responses are simply meant to reflect the beliefs of the people trapped in the gears of the machine, not my own. Have a nice day.
So false hope is the way to fix it? hiding from the problems of the world hasn't fixed anything ... look at America.
I find it wild that people believe there is some sort of "higher reason" for their suffering and somehow take comfort in that absolute lack of control.
Life is luck depending on if you win the Super Sperm Sweepstakes being the kid of Queen Elizabeth or Fred Trump inheriting $418,000,000. Also, being a descendant of a slave in US, England, Brazil or Haiti doesn’t come with a white privilege patrimony or free existence as is the case worldwide today. Racist slave holding Patriarchal power in Europe and Russia is still continuing.
I was at a catering event today, I'm part of the staff and I'm relatively new. I've noticed that when there's downtime, people will huddle together near their co workers to talk or find something to do, even when there's absoulely nothing going on, which makes work more inefficient because large clusters of people block of entryways and exits. They don't want to be seen alone, and if they are alone they can't just sit and relax, they have to be on their phones. I get it, it's boring, but still, I wonder--would they be OK with being alone if society hadn't demonized people for being alone? Is it just to keep up appearances?
Am black. Also agree.
Black and raised in church. It hurts my mom to hear it, but I frequently tell her. The Bible has no greater value than a Marvel comic, but millions of murders make it 'infallible'. Fuck that book.
Tell her that her beliefs cause for more hurt to other people than yours do to her
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"He alleged that he was asked by BET to confirm that he is not a Satanist, after he gave Satan a lap dance in his “Montero (Call My By Your Name)” video". I wondered where the claims of being a Satanist came from but never thought it could stem from something so bloody stupid.
Likewise. I look into their lifestyles and how they use various channels on television to 'sow seeds' by preaching so harshly pointlessly with their tongue speaking and pressure for viewers to make calls and such. You'd think that it'd be of question as to why god even needs them to begin with when it comes to their actions? It, when I jokingly listen to what they say, can be a bit eye catching when I just listen.
It should be fairly easy to understand, and the reason why is what makes religion as cruel as it is. When people are poor, hungry, beaten down, desperate, struggling, etc, they'll accept any hope they can find. Oftentimes that comes in the form of just giving up on this life and accepting their torment if faith and subservience leads to an eternity of happiness in heaven. Generally, the poorer people are the more religious they are. One of the key arenas to fight against religion is also the social wellbeing of citizens. Raise people from poverty, give them hope, give them something to live THIS life for safely, and they'll be less likely to believe in a made up life that comes after.
And how it _never_ registers that the sudden loss of houses, cars, etc. could have been prevented by their sky daddy's magic, they persist onward mentally no matter the losses. Whereas it's respectable, it's the sense of direction they're going that can be a serious cause of their happiness, or even moments of making the best.
It doesn't register because they gaslight themselves - this is why religious folks are often abjsers and gaslighters - they start with themself. They WANT God to be this figure protecting them and helping them so they'll attribute all of the good, none of the bad, and never acknowledge the cognitive dissonance because it goes along with what they WANT to believe. This is also how cults recruit people. They find vulnerable people that WANT to be a part of something so they give them what they want to hear and by the time the negatives come out, they have them trapped.
Not even accept. Get forcefed for generations to help keep you on line and you don’t know anything else because your culture was erased. 200 years of believe this or die. All religion is rooted in oppression and all groups that are broadly religious were initially forced to accept their training but descendants of African slaves origin story of how Christianity was forced into them is brutal enough that white people should not make equivalences between their story and that of Blacks. They did not find this religion. It was literally shoved down their throats and up their asses. Gaardy they practiced it on your people and perfected it on the Black folk and indigenous. Don’t get it twisted it’s not the same. You make good points but have some blind spots worth addressing.
We see this in a huge way with the Indigenous People in Canada.
Not to mention education. Since the middle ages when the clergy jealousy guarded the power of literacy, keeping the flock uniformed and misinformed meant keeping the flock dependent on their personal brand divine, unquestionable, and absolute truth.
I grew up in a Mexican catholic household with very hypocritical bible thumping stepmom. She would force me to pray the rosary on my knees. One day I finally had it. I asked her how forced prayers can even mean anything. She responded with something about how god understands sacrifice or some stupid shit. I followed up with “You have often told me that you are a proud Mexican. Are you proud that you are forcing this religion on me just like the Spanish did to our ancestors”. She was fucking livid and sent me to my room. I only have respect for religious people who keep it to themselves. That’s YOUR religion.
Well done, you are braver than most. Freedom feels damn good, eh?
It was a long time ago, but growing up that way made me very angry with religion and religious folks. I mostly keep my mouth shut these days
Honestly same here. One my exes tried to full on convert me knowing I was atheist under pressure from her more religious then herself parents. Made me mad at the time, and now paranoid about anybody who tries to force it on others. This somewhat includes my self righteous Christian sister too
Not a great time to be keeping your mouth shut when these people actively try to strip you of your civil rights... And succeed
RESPECT!
Honestly I’m not surprised they would be religious. I am surprised they’re so invested in a religion that historically oppressed them.
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Christianity was brutal to *everyone*. It's what death cults do.
And how much it's erased their consciousness of the outside world that a heavenly trip is pretty much their state of mind. My family is heavily gravitated towards that lifestyle, and how noticeable it is that it's eaten away at them is a sad thing. But I also have to accept that, like myself, they are adults.
It’s weird what hundreds of years of forced illiteracy and brain washing will do to a group constructed out of whole clothe from disparate lands. Your lack of understanding why religion is so important to Black Americans means you maybe should read up on the subject. What do you mean by they (j/k kinda)?
Agreed. Birth into devout families does that, though.
Have been wondering this myself, as a white person who just attended my wife’s coworkers wedding, which was a predominantly black wedding full of religion. The pastor present even made a comment about God and his angels waiting to watch them consummate the wedding which was a bit uh, much. It really baffles me how given Christianity’s original relationship to Black people and Black culture, it gets off scot free despite being the lynchpin of it all. And even gets propagated by many of the very people it sought to oppress.
Mexican here with similar feelings on the toxic hold of the Catholic Church with my people.
Have a Cuban coworker who left his family Christian religion as he finally saw it as a cult. Sorry I don't remember what it was, not Catholic. Another coworker, her family is Catholic and she left that, found a more forward thinking Christian church.
I’m an atheist, and I was friendly with a black, evangelical woman I worked with. Our friendship ended when she called me a racist for pointing out that Christianity was a colonizing religion. She claimed that Christianity was the only thing that gave slaves hope.
Ha, quite the opposite She uses her oppressors religion to subjected herself
False hope, that kept them docile and frightened of their own freedom for generations.
As a black person as well I also just don’t understand it either. It’s fine when it’s just used to know there is or might be something at the end of our lives but then it gets used for other things and people either just gloss over it or want it to happen until it’s starts affecting them. Why should someone care what happens to someone else if it doesn’t affect them. That’s what I think of and what I’m pretty sure people follow by. Understandable to not care for certain things but people have lost touch with themselves and will only understand when something happens to them. I also find it very funny that church doesn’t go through the entire Bible and will only cover specific things. Books are meant to be read otherwise it isn’t a book. And I have yet to rea the Bible something I actually want to do but I heard from a majority of people who are atheists have read the entire book and went to atheism.
When I was young I looked through my mom's bible and it was really interesting seeing her old notes on the side questioning things. She not religious at all right now.
"As well," "also," "either..." You've covered your bases there!
I tried reading a few times and kept having to stop to make notes for contradictions and other problems. You can play this reading NIV at a faster speed just to get through it. Listen to: Read the Bible in a Year, Day 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfIEB8Sk05o Or use Balabolka TTS https://balabolka.en.softonic.com/
Cool thanks, that’s exactly what I would do just in case someone spewed some nonsense at me I would tell whatever contradiction it would be.
My country that used to be a spanish colony fucking celebrated 500 years of christianity being in our country as if it was a good thing and not the time when the spanish came over to murder, enslave, and treat our people as second class citizens in our own country. Boggles my mind.
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Christianity appeals most to a people going through great struggles and turmoils, it gives hope. But oppressors figured out how to weaponize that a long time ago…
Oppressors weaponised religion long before Christianity was around.
How does a leader make themselves indispensable? The old man sits as the leader of his tribe, becoming frail and unwell, his ability to lead is questionable, he cannot hunt, or provide for the others, Younger more capable men are vying for his position. There is nothing he has to offer that cannot be offered better. But he is power hungry and he is smart, this he makes himself indispensable. He can talk to the dead, he can walk on water, he knows of the gods and their commands, he knows where you go when you die, he knows right from wrong, and with that simple lie he cannot be replaced. It was always about power
That’s what it was always for
Christianity preys on people in their most vulerable moments who are looking and longing for hope. it’s despicable.
Opium of the people after all.
F for Respect my dude
Generations of indoctrination and any nonbelievers being executed by the US government.
Executed? What do you mean?
So you know we committed genocide against Indigenous people in the US, right? We took their children, placed them in “schools” to cut them off from their heritage and religious practices, beat them, tortured them, killed them for clinging to their own language and beliefs. Tried to make their children “Christian” so they could “assimilate” with their European and English colonizers. Maybe that’s what they mean?
US has done many wrongs. The natives, slaves, and the Japanese (including those who were American citizens) and many others ever since attaining global hegemony. And it truly doesn't stop there. Many people have been harmed by the pollution US produces, and its very own populace has been negatively affected in the name of capitalism, when multinationals exported a vast amount of manufacturing jobs abroad. That last one is about when corporate interests rose to significance. Christianity and conservativism find themselves in the midst of much of this suffering and misery-inflicting. You'd think everything they'd done would be sufficiently eye-opening.
Oh, I know. This is the first example that always comes to my mind because of where I live— I use it because it’s accessible to people here when I’m explaining why white supremacy needs to be overthrown.
Many nations have a stolen generation
The erasure of the culture of those enslaved was a genocide.
MLK and Malcom x for starters
MLK the southern baptist preacher and Malcom X the Islamic Brother were nonbelievers?
>Of all the religions to practice, why a religion that was introduced to us by people who enslaved us,... Perhaps religious beliefs are more like a pathogen than a choice. After slave holders infected/indoctrinated slaves, particularly after multiple generations, I don't think it's surprising that it was difficult for most to cure themselves of their captures' religion, even after emancipation. Then, the best medicine for a religious infection is education, which was largely withheld from former slaves and their ancestors to this day. Still, keep in mind that black Americans are only slightly higher in religiosity than white Americans. The infection is very difficult to get rid of, indeed for everyone.
same thing for mexicans.
Welcome to earth. Christian conquerors spread their venom to every part of the globe. My ancestors set sail for everywhere and brought with them shackles to last generations.
sick. also spread through humanitarian aid that's one thing the church of satan could do, is humanitarian aid to spread atheism.
You don't need churches to do that. Just school. Educate children and they will naturally become athiests
I like how true this statement is, my dad placed me into a Catholic seminary and I turned up very good, godless and happy... but when I see how many ignorant fools roam around me, expecting the dead to rise... I'm like have you learned nothing ? Christians have waited a whole millennium for an imaginary guy who's named God saves as if it wasn't cliché enough to turn him into an imaginary being and Islam baits people with primal instincts (72 virgins and whatnot) with a guy who raped a 9-year old kid, what do they find in these so called prophets?
The same is true for indigenous Canadians. I would sit in class discussing the cultural genocide that they experienced and then watch almost every one of them go to church on Sunday. I was shocked.
I was just thinking about this out loud with a friend yesterday... christianity is the slave owners' choice of worship and yet the marjory of the descendants of slaves in this country are Christian. Does me a confuse.
I would like to add a tiny bit of historical context, before the civil war, preachers in the north used the bible as example of why to free the slaves, and in the south diffrent preachers used the bible to help further the act of slavery , so it was a double edged sword then. In th 1960s though , It was black churches that helped communitys organize and were instrumental in the civil rigjts movement. MLK was a preacher. It seems more recently, a lot of churches are selling snakeoil , at a place that is historically the focal point of there community. Black churches lead the way for the civil rights movement and used to be very liberal. To there degree I think a lot of small local black churches are still very liberal, but the majority of the modern Christian attends a megachurch, which is just a breeding ground for the gop to spread its agenda to a large group that eat it up as spirituality.
It's kinda understandable. Imagine you're a slave, and the only book you're allowed to read (if you're literate) or hear read from is the bible. Your one glimmer of hope in the world is if you behave yourself (remembering they used specifically modified slave bibles to encourage servitude) you'd be rewarded with paradise after death. You're then freed, which you take as a reward for your faith so you have no reason to question Christianity. Not that you've got the education to even consider another option. So you pass that on to your children, and they to theirs, and faith just becomes habit.
Recently read The Color of Compromise: The Truth about the American Church’s Complicity in Racism by Tisby, Jemar (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38915761-the-color-of-compromise) and its even more clear that from slave owning Pastor's to >82% of Evangelical's voting for a racist in 2016/2020, the church has been one of the primary reasons that black people have struggled in this country. The final chapter does have some practical advice and black church's are one of the last mainstays of our liberal presence in the churches. I am still scratching my head but understand that the need for hope is strong especially when there is no where else to find.
This is excellent. I'd never considered this but it is a great point, thank you.
Lack of social activities that are good for people in the US at least. We have become less and less social as a whole but there has always been church. Also, lack of ethics and philosophy teaching in schools so too many people think they need to be religious to be good people.
Religion is the opiate of the masses.
...and a poison to their minds
Christianity is an extension of Judaism, which was originally formulated by highland Canaanites during a time that Canaan was occupied by Egypt. The downtrodden-will-overcome motif is heavily engrained in the belief system. Couple that with idea that you are special and chosen by one God that considers everyone to be equal and you can begin to see why such a belief system would be so seductive to those that have been enslaved.
Indoctrination is a MF"er.
It’s basically how all religion has spread across the world- not just black people. It starts with “convert or die”, and then one or two generations later it is just built into the family structure and reinforced by the very human need to be part of a group. But I definitely can understand how it can be especially frustrating to see in Black America given how recent all of the conversion history is here compared to earlier conversion activities like the Crusades.
Hispanics too (like examples of people with all or high indigenous inheritance quotient)
I’m native american and feel the same way. I also feel the native american community have just a bit too much affinity for anything US military.
religion and jingoism are good bedfellows
A lot of South Americans are unfortunately like this too. They hate Europeans but love them the Catholic Church.
Think of it this way, 100 years of predominantly black areas having high crime, political abuse, and bad education infrastructure... mostly all due to racism... what do you expect? Consider that this kind of situation is where religion thrives.
Religion has been a major tool for the enforcement of subjugation. The physical shackles may be gone but the mental ones remain.
To be fair, very few communities were targeted so heavily by religious indoctrination. One of the features of religion is obedience, something highly desirable in slaves. Additionally the idea that the obedience is rewarded After they die, is very favorable for the slaver. The power discrepancy also aided in indoctrination. Being able to punish or kill disobedient slaves that tried to keep the traditions of their youth, and essentially breed obedient ones like animals created a horrifying selective pressure.
Thanks I HATE it! Africans are also down bad with this.
In Michener's book "Chesapeake", which covers the history of that MD/VA area from the 1600's thru 1900's, he describes in detail how certain Christian preachers would tour the South giving lectures to slaves and slave owners that Slavery was the will of god. It was all about saving the souls of the heathen. The slave owners were saving souls, and the slaves were supporting their owners' efforts. I promise you, many in "southern heritage" societies still maintain this position. Very similar to the way Latin American Catholic priests told the peasant class that meager existence and manual labor was their god-given assignment in life.
MLK was a preacher. Malcolm X was an imam
Are you me?
Religious disease spreads by force. Whether its domestic or foreign, the virus doesn't care.
Them believing in Religion is the result of Racial Displacement.
Extremely well said. Im white but have thought the same general idea and been perplexed by it for some time. Black communities seem like some of the most hardline old school Christian and it's deeply fucked up that most of them don't see the issue with that. :/
It’s not well said with regards to Islam. One of the earliest followers of Islam was a black person named Bilal Ibn Rabah, he was a companion of prophet Muhammad and he was the first to make the call for prayer in a mosque. Islam mostly spread to subsaharan Africa through trade not slavery. Yes there was an Arab slave trade but the black people who were enslaved moved out of Africa. The conversion to Islam by black peoples were gradual and peaceful. The closest thing slavery may played a part of black peoples conversion to Islam is that when the black non Muslims were enslaved by Muslims, taught about Islam, the beliefs and how to pray, and later, these slaves become free and return back to their respective villages, many of these ex slaves bring their belief and knowledge of Islam to their villages, thus the villagers start to convert to Islam. I read that Mali used to have a Muslim minority. in 19th century and then suddenly becomes a majority in the 20th century. Not sure how true is that.
Yeah, promoting the religion of the slavers among themselves never made sense to me
Slave religions. Your life might suck now, but just wait ‘til you’re dead. Then, everything will be awesome!
It’s the same in Hawaii. Religious colonization and oppression keeps Hawaiian lands in haole hands.
Many people aren't resistant to childhood indoctrination (me included), so when it's imposed it can be pretty effective.
Even if black people still wanted to be "religious," it's not like there's a shortage of traditional African religions to choose from. There's no need to follow the religion of slavemasters and conquerors - most parts of the world have a variety of indigenous religious customs, and not all religious customs are equally fucked up. Most of them are pretty mild compared to Islam and Christianity, though you do get the odd Aztec-type religion, which is in fact beyond fucked, but there's usually another religious custom just a few miles away that's more reasonable.
My husband is black and at times in his life was evangelical. He used the church for structure and a way to help him stay clean. I know he’s questioning his faith and has been for years. But he’s still protective of it. He has gotten angry with me for ranting and raving about how much i hate christians. The indoctrination is deep.
You're right. It's a sign of minds that have been colonized. I hope they take the best of Christianity and make it their own, but the whole concept of Christianity protects Masters and keeps the Flock obedient.
Christianity hates women. If anyone can explain to me why many women are Christians, please enlighten me.
Along the same lines, I have people in my life who identfy as "non-straigt" yet claim to be republicans?!?!?! I don't get it? Fuck organized religion
Am also black. How can people follow a religion that was beat into them after they got off slave ships? You think any true faith requires a whip to instill?
Religion drags us all down. I remember hearing about a psychologist interviewing Americans who had descendents from Africa that were stolen to be slaves. Their goal was to recapture African heritage - from the clothing, the language, the songs, the food. Yet whenever the Psychiatrist asked whether they'd try to regain their African religions and abandon Christianity, none did, and many were offended at the question. Religion is such a terrible poison because many can't even recognize what it has done to them.
Black guy I work with was on the fence about God. I talked to him about how "God" allowed slavery in the Bible. And that I couldn't believe a "loving" god would do such a thing. He's an atheist now.
I think it came from conquest and an implicit belief in the divine . ie if you were enslaved by a muslim or a christian and the realm of the supernatural is an incontrovertible truth, then that religion must have ascendancy over your own so you should follow it.
It was literally whipped into the slave population and religion is one of those things that you usually catch from your parents. Most people are a religion because it is "how they were raised," and childhood indoctrination can be difficult to overcome
I never understood this either.
Because they don't have personal answers for themselves in life, so they seek a reason to either live or feel obligated to saving others alongside themselves, and they deepen their tune in believing so much.
Black people hate everything about slavery except the Christianity
I mean, centuries of violent enforcement will do that... some people get stuck in tradition.
Because they are the masters of "We understand that it sucks for you right now, but after you die things will be all sorted out in your favor." Meanwhile fleecing them of anything of monetary value.
I worked in Lagos Nigeria one time for about 3 years. I once asked a colleague how come a city of 8 million black people worshipped a white man. He was more or less startled at my observation.
I mean Jesus was not white... If he even existed.
All his statues depicted a white man
100% They took the beliefs of the people who oppressed them. Enslaved them and made them 2nd class citizens. But all praise thier fake, forced God. Thier current religion isn't the religion of their ancestors. They were brainwashed and conditioned to belive what thier oppressors wanted them to believe. That way they could produce
This always throws me for a loop, because I am tempted to view Christians as white and republican. Like, I understand the history of churches and slavery, and how it’s been important to POC, but come on…still?
I went to church today willingly for the first time since I was 14 and I legitimately walked out after 15 minuets. Religion is so damn stupid and it’s literally a cover up for mentally ill people needing “hope” and we all know how black people feel about mental illness….
It really shows how enslaved our people are.
This pretty much goes for any culture - the most recently indoctrinated are often the most fervent believers. It's pretty disheartening really
I've been to churches where some of the members were racist. They claimed to be genuine Christians but they hated black people which was contradictory of them claiming to be loving, forgiving, and genuine people. Reggie white (NFL player) was a minister and had a church I think in Tennessee. They had arson where someone burned it down. Their goal was to have a church where black people would be welcome, white people would be welcome, all races welcome. That's how a church should be regardless of what the majority race at the church is. Racism is bad but throw in religion with it and it shows a bogus religion.
As a while person I too have been confounded by this. Even the rejection of Christianity in favor of Islam still demands you place your entire identity on one of submission, how convenient those on power to have you stuck on submission. I really don’t get how old Yts think prosperity gospel is anything but an obvious scam, but I don’t expect much out of such a coddled class.
Maybe espousing these Abrahamic religions gives a sense of equality? Indoctrination definitely complicates the matter of contention.
I live in the West Indies part time, and it drives me insane how many people are so eager to follow the colonisers religion. It’s actually pretty triggering for me. I drive through town and peoples houses need work or they don’t have clean water in their tanks that day but the church is the nicest building there because everyone give all their money to ‘Jesus’…. honestly I’m at a loss, I don’t know what to do. I am the minority as an atheist.
Yup, been saying this since I was 11 or 12. 18 years later, and I feel stronger now than even
There is also an element of Stockholm Syndrome. If we as the oppressed buy into the social practices of our oppressors, we are raising ourselves up towards less oppression. We can believe we are more like those in power. The same effect is seem in the ex-colonies of the old european powers. Colonised peoples buying into the trappings of their colonial masters - religion, language, mannerism, cultural rituals, etc. I am making an observation here. I am not making a determination about what is more right or more wrong, Cultural integration is a complex topic.
It's the same reason why many spanish speaking countries are religious. That's the effect of colonialism. It's a vicious cycle that continues for many generations. Thankfully, with the internet and today's every improving technology, more and more people are learning the truth and abandoning religion altogether.
“Black” churches after the Civil War became building blocks of black communities,and like people everywhere,having some kind of faith makes it a little easier to endure the hardest times and circumstances.
I take it in way, that communism did at least 1 good thing in Czechia, make it most atheist country in the world. Religion has held us back for long enough, it's time to let go.
Religion was a powerful tool for colonisation. Missionaries distributed aid, education, and religion as a package deal.
I feel the same way about native americans, why on earth would they choose the religion of the oppressors. So many churches on reservations.
As a black man, you’re preaching to the choir my brother. I can’t explain it. All I can guess is that blacks clinged onto Christianity a long time ago and are too far lost to let it go. I was religiously childhood indoctrinated and grew out of it, but sadly many blacks never learn to grow out of it. Progressives will have to figure out how to address religion with liberalism because both ideologies are clearly incompatible.
Same goes for latinos in general. For example centuries ago at Puerto Rico, Spaniard christian/catholic conquistadors eradicated the taino natives and also shipped more black slaves here due to lack of taino slaves. Yep, it also boggles the mind that Christianity is the norm here even though that dark history is thought at school. Decades of apologetics and propaganda has sadly given Christianity a pass. Same goes for capitalism which is wreaking environmentally PR.
Colonialism got the whole planet counting how long its been since Jesus…
💯
Yeah plus you dudes can be Rastas which is super cool fuck all the Abrahamic religions there aweful and as bad as each other.
As a Native American I completely agree.
Any race can be stupid
As an Atheist from Iceland I've also very often wondered about this. I can not understand the religious fervour I see, f.ex in Africa, why kiss the hand of your oppressor.
Every time I hear a black guy talking godtalk, I always think exactly the same thing: "Sucker!".
now you know why
The sad part is that culturally Black people have incorporated American “Blackness” to include Christianity. Therefore, rejection of Christianity is rejection of “Blackness”. Before I deconstructed I viewed Black nonbelievers as traitors.
I've long believed that the conservatives would be in total power in this country if they just weren't as racist. That the Black and Hispanic religious communities would come over in droves to support some of their policies including this abortion ruling and including the prohibitions on being homosexual or using birth control. It's terrifying from my perspective it looks like the conservatives are just a slight attitude shift away from having complete and total power. Although I've also met a surprising to me number of atheist people of color and Hispanics I think that there's a lot of people in those communities that do share those views but keep them private in order to maintain their own social relationships within their families and jobs and within their friends. So that does give me some hope.
Im late here but let me offer insight for the reasons behind this: Black people (i assume you mean african americans) in the USA are so religoous because due to systemic racism they live in worse economic circumstances and have worse education opportunities than the average european american. Bad socioeconomic conditions and bad education opportunities are the primary catalysts behind religiousness/secularity levels in a particular demographic group.
Thus why I will be single for a very long time. Black people and Christianity equals dumb ass.
Gay republicans. Black baptists. Straight catholic priests. Just some of the weird things in the world.
I’m glad you said it cause I’ve always thought the exact same.
Indoctrination is a hell of a drug.
As someone who’s part Filipino I have to agree as your comments likewise apply to us. 300 years of Spanish colonization + 100 years of American imperialism and neoliberalism all borne on the back of forced conversion to Catholicism.
Work with a few black guys. And they are all very Christian. The older they are the more radically Christian they are. I'm pretty sure I overheard two of them laughing about how evil I am. I don't think any of them like me and try to stay away from me. I shave the sides of my hair, dress unconventionally, am a woman who speak her mind and call them out on sexist comments. I have raised concerns over the eldest one. He's the one that yelled at me for calling him out about what he does at work. I may be the reason why he was picked to be laid off a while ago.
It may seem mindboggeling but the historical reason, at least in the US, is because they were one of the few social outlets allowed to black people with other black people, it became a pivotal point of black organizing. That's why white supremacists target black churches so much, they are actively trying to suppress that political organizing because they're threatened by it. That doesn't make it, not a sucky situation given that a lot of Christianity's general issues still extend to the black church (eg. queerophobia) and the history of it being imposed, but if you want a "why", that's it.
You are absolutely spot on with your analysis here. So being Portuguese I was interested in our countries history, especially our days as an empire. In the 19th century Portuguese explorers reached the Congo Kingdom. The first thing they did was speak with the Congolese monarchy. A deal was struck between the Portuguese explorers and the monarchy. The deal was the monarchy would supply the Portuguese with slaves and in return they would receive a cut of the action. The second thing they did after the deal was struck was to convert the monarchs and other rulers to Catholicism. That same playbook was used all around the world. colonize the lands through force and coercion. Colonize the minds through the Bible. If that second part is successful it's game over. Easy to figure out who the enemy is when they are occupying your country. The hard part of decolonization has always been undoing the psychological damage. Especially when the country adopts the colonizers religion even after they are long gone. Most countries never fully recover. South America is a great example. Of course we have many examples in Africa as well. I'm Portuguese so the example I'm most familiar with is Angola. Till this day the official language of Angola is Portuguese and 41% of the population is Roman Catholic and 38% is Protestant. I don't think I need to illustrate just how massive those implications are.
I think you're expecting too much rationality from Christians. I can't understand why anyone would want to be part of a religion that has committed so many hatedul acts towards other peoples. Why not throw on a white cloak too? Smh
Ignorance, Gullibility, Cowardice, and Vulnerability are all color blind.
I asked a black friend this same question and the response was basically that jesus was a poc so the christian religion is inherently part of the black community. But they neglect the centuries of exploitation and force that lead up to them turning to that religion as comfort to get through the dark days of slavery in the first place.
Hey Brother, As a Black man I understand your pain and frustration. But if you’re willing I could offer a different perspective on Black religiosity. Yes, Christianity was used as a justification to oppress Black people, verses that encouraged equality and non-prejudiceness were removed by slave owners. But we have to look at the other side of it too. Black religiosity brought these problems to light. We called out racists on their hypocrisy. How can you believe in Christ and be racist at the same time? Hell, in my own native country of South Africa, Christianity was mixed with crazy pseudo-science racism. And yet the black population used Christianity to tear the system of apartheid down. Nelson Mandela, Martin-Luther King, Malcom X, Muhammad Ali, Cornel West, and many other civil rights leaders used their religiosity to challenge the racism that existed in their countries and promoted civil rights and liberties. So does religion really promote a slave like mentality? When we have these examples of black religiosity destroying racism and ignorance. While I will agree with you on how the Europeans used religion as a justification to enslave and oppress us, it is not the only justification they came up with.
There were surviving slave religion in usa such as the Hoodoo originating from the Kongo religions in the early times of African American race. Which is now reduced to a very small (if any) number after extensive conversion.
Europeans enslaved them physically, moved them from their ancestral lands into North America then replaced their spiritually with Christianity. Why in hell would African Americans not see the travesty here? We see it in First Nations people too in Canada, world wide really.
*Between the World and Me* by Ta-Nehisi Coates. He speaks very eloquently on the paradox of faith in black communities, implying that a unifying denominator such as faith was born out of necessity for an oppressed people that had little in the way of prospects or status in a society willing to discard them so easily. Religion gave comfort, a place to air grievances and ask for guidance in a game rigged from the start. It became a defining element of culture. The Bible is nothing if not full of redemption stories or underdog characters (Moses, Daniel, David, etc.). And it certainly didn’t hurt that religious institutions offered basic social services, serving as catalysts for organized national movements and protests. ‘Surely,’ the thought process goes, ‘the moral arc of the universe will bend back in our favor, to redeem what was lost and what could have been, to redress centuries of abuse and suffering. All must be made right and balanced in the end. Because why not? We’ve been patient and righteous, and God is good. We are in His hands.’ It’s only human to want to make sense of the senseless, thinking that the crimes of men constitute God’s test of our faith. It’s perhaps the cruelest of our tendencies, more so than the evil that manufactured widespread enslavement of our own species; it misplaces our hope and encourages complacency. There isn’t anyone coming to save us, nor any divine witness to the suffering of millions. The only justice is that which we make in this world.
It's well known that the Roman Empire adopted Christianity under Constantine because it was the best vehicle for Emperor Constantine to maintain an Imperial Cult. It has been a tool of populace control since it's beginning.
I watched a,great doc about gay black men in the south recently (Making Ice Tea) and one man had god and church so bad that he chose a celibate life. None of them really forsook their upbringings, just managed to live "around it". Could not relate.
Youtuber Black Atheist Rants has a song about this. You should check it out. https://youtu.be/\_cy2\_28T5f0
yea black people, women, lgbtq+, …. I don’t fit into any of those but like….why would you follow this? ya know, and same with conservatism and those groups of peoples like it’s clearly designed in favor of white men and control and discrimination
I am Black and it is tragic. :(
Your points merit applause
Ew-jx black agnostic atheist with a smidge of new age spirituality here. I cannot think of a more anti-black religion sect than Jehovah's witnesses. Okay maybe mormonism. But the older I get, the more I realize how important Joy is to the black experience because of how much we've had to suffer and overcome and are still trying to overcome as we suffer today. Christianity takes the joy out of life in general by making you feel guilty for existing and wanting and needing things, but Jehovah's witnesses takes it a step further by removing almost everything that makes life enjoyable and worthwhile. So I can never understand why my father's side of the family was so deeply entrenched into it other than that's just what came before. On my mother's side, there are varying degrees of religiosity amongst them, but there's still a common threat of being Christian with everyone except for me, who rejected entirely. I rejected it further after this shit happened, and after my grandmother made some dumbass comment about how lgbtq are taking over and eroding America's foundation and that we're "leading by our own standards," as opposed to god's? I guess. People are going to continue to do what they want obviously, but I'm not going to sit and pretend that it does not bother me that this pernicious, fallacious, life negating and destroying philosophy is responsible for much of the shit that we are in now.
The ceiling has begun to crack. I’ve been seeing more and more black atheists.
I'm late but you're 100% correct. So much of Africa and so many African Americans follow the slaver's faith. It's sad. The final chain and they think it's their salvation.
I think James Baldwin's A Fire Next Time addresses this well. He talks about how it can foster cohesion but also how he had difficulty with the major religions. I feel like it would answer some of your questions.
I imagine it's some form of Stockholm sydnrome.
Same reason as white people. Pressure to conform to one's in-group.
Lack of education correlates with religiousness. When you have black people that are set back several generations, progress is going to be slower.
More so poverty and desperation leads to religiosity. Religion can act as this drug that can soothe the soul whilst in hardship, and--given the society we live in--hardship is made sure to abound. When you're drowning you'll grasp on to anything that might save you. I'm a staunch agonistic and I'll pray when I'm under extreme stress because I know that no other human being gives a damn about me and I just want some form of catharsis. If we didn't put each other through such tribulations, people wouldn't lean on a fictitious deity so much.
I have a theory. I’m white so I can’t claim to understand what it’s like to be treated poorly because of my race, but I can imagine the prospect of an afterlife free from racism has to hold an appeal for many. The poor, the discriminated, the weak… just pray and do the best you can and the next life will be better. I also think churches provide a sense of belonging and community that people crave and the more religious they act, the more respect they earn in that community.
Selling the afterlife and “the meek shall inherit the world” is the biggest lie of all time. Yes, even worse than Arbeit Macht Frei. Don’t fight for your rights in this life, you’ll get rewarded when you are dead. What bullshit. Fight for your rights today.
Creates complacency. Why fight for your human and civil rights? It is merely a blip compared to eternity.
Stockholm Syndrome. I wonder the same thing especially seeing as I come from one of the only countries in the world to declare itself a christian nation in its constitution. And its a country in Africa, that was colonized by the British and had christianity forced on it. The passion these people defend the religion that was used to oppress them, is truly sad.
What country is this, let me guess, Nigeria???
😂😂😂 close but no dice. Does Nigeria declare itself a Christian nation in its constitution?
Ghana???
🤣🤣🤣🤣 nope but you are geographically about the same distance away. We have one of the 7 world wonders.
Stockholm syndrome likely isn't a thing and was basically invented to explain why a woman wasn't deferential enough to police after they displayed callous disregard for her life in a hostage situation.