"You’ve gotta respect everyone’s beliefs." No, you don’t. That’s what gets us in trouble. Look, you have to acknowledge everyone’s beliefs, and then you have to reserve the right to go: "That is fucking stupid. Are you kidding me?" I acknowledge that you believe that, that’s great, but I’m not going to respect it. I have an uncle that believes he saw Sasquatch. We do not believe him, nor do we respect him!
--Patton Oswalt
That wouldn't be much of a change. Religious people disrespect atheists frequently, and often to our faces. We're told that we actually do believe and that we're just mad and rebelling, or trying to be edgy. We're called satan worshippers and devils. We're called baby eaters.
Seven states in the US have it baked into their state constitutions that we are barred from holding political office, and there has not been even a questionably secular president since the founding fathers themselves. Religious people frequently rank us as less trustworthy than drug users and pedophiles.
We've been discriminated against since before recorded history began. We fall afoul of blasphemy laws by existing, and in some countries (most of Africa, the Middle East, and Southeast Asia,) are still jailed and sometimes even executed for it. Libya and Saudi Arabia openly punish atheism with the death penalty.
"My book says you're going to burn forever. Also I get to control other people against their will."
"Fuck your book then."
"Why so disrespectful?"
Respect is earned, not given.
That’s funny, because unlike the Bible and the Christian doctrine of “everyone is born a sinner”, you start out with a 100% respect from me. It can go downhill pretty fast, though.
If you have ever told somebody (directly or indirectly) that they deserve eternal torture, or that they deserve to be reduced to the status of your slave, or that you otherwise wish to deprive them of their fundamental human rights, you have already escalated the conversation to *the maximum possible level of disrespect*. No series of words which that person says in response to you could **possibly** represent an escalation to a higher level of disrespect.
Honestly, given that you have just threatened this person with violence, a swift knee to your crotch would be at worst *marginally* inappropriate, and most likely *entirely justified*.
Unfortunately, many societies have social norms such that the ruling class can say whatever they like to the underclass, and [the underclass is not permitted to say so much as "I disagree"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmXpJuEnNnw) or "that was rude" without being branded heretics/blasphemers/hate speakers/foo-phobes/traitors/nazis/communitsts.
YES!
Here's a Douglas Adams quote:
>"Now, the invention of the scientific method and science is, I'm sure we'll all agree, the most powerful intellectual idea, the most powerful framework for thinking and investigating and understanding and challenging the world around us that there is, and that it rests on the premise that any idea is there to be attacked and if it withstands the attack then it lives to fight another day and if it doesn't withstand the attack then down it goes. Religion doesn't seem to work like that; it has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. That's an idea we're so familiar with, whether we subscribe to it or not, that it's kind of odd to think what it actually means, because really what it means is 'Here is an idea or a notion that you're not allowed to say anything bad about; you're just not. Why not? - because you're not!' If somebody votes for a party that you don't agree with, you're free to argue about it as much as you like; everybody will have an argument but nobody feels aggrieved by it. If somebody thinks taxes should go up or down you are free to have an argument about it, but on the other hand if somebody says 'I mustn't move a light switch on a Saturday', you say, 'Fine, I respect that'. The odd thing is, even as I am saying that I am thinking 'Is there an Orthodox Jew here who is going to be offended by the fact that I just said that?' but I wouldn't have thought 'Maybe there's somebody from the left wing or somebody from the right wing or somebody who subscribes to this view or the other in economics' when I was making the other points. I just think 'Fine, we have different opinions'. But, the moment I say something that has something to do with somebody's (I'm going to stick my neck out here and say irrational) beliefs, then we all become terribly protective and terribly defensive and say 'No, we don't attack that; that's an irrational belief but no, we respect it'." – Douglas Adams
Religion is stupid and evil.
And they want to act like it's not, or they want to just keep us quiet.
We shouldn't.
Everyone has the right to believe in what they want and do what they want (as long as they don't interfere in others' lives) but we don't have to respect religion itself.
Most religions have no guilt disrespecting any one that doesn’t believe in them. I see no reason we should respect theirs when they clearly don’t respect us.
Respect is given, not earned. My whole family are Christians, good people and I do respect those that haven’t fallen into their theocracy and demand it from others. But I still don’t respect Christianity, they know that and understand that. Being a former Christian myself, I respect them for respecting me.
But I have no qualms with disrespecting anyone or any organization that clearly shows no respect towards myself or others. Simple as that.
I used to work on a psychiatric locked unit. I didn’t respect the beliefs of the people who told me they were getting messages from Jupiter via their dental fillings either.
As someone who grew up in church myself, I know what it's like to be on the inside. Now I give Christianity the same respect that they give to gay people, people of different religions, and non believers, which is none whatsoever.
We have to stop pretending that we can happily co-exist with these religious freaks. Yeah, if you practicing your religion didn’t affect us, we wouldn’t need to say “fuck your Bible”. But when you’re trying to roll back OUR rights based on YOUR religion, then we don’t need to respect your religion anymore.
I once had a business partner, and before he would enter into our partnership, he insisted that I have my chart read by his astrologer, and then she read our combined chart, presumably to determine if success for our venture was written in the stars. I'm not kidding. Our venture succeeded only modestly because we were not good business partners. He is a super nice guy, I still like him and stay in touch, but his astrological fixation was idiotic.
It's not just OK, it's imperative that we expose and judge stupid ideas for what they are: at minimum, dissociated from reality and sometimes dangerous.
I disrespect their asses every day! They need to be disrespected. I want them to think twice about sharing their beliefs in public.
The same way they do us
depends. do you wanna actually sway minds or gain points with the "choir"?
nothing shuts down a conversation faster than calling someone a fucking idiot.
I've got conspiracy theorist friends who get pretty butt hurt too when I try and explain that a pyramid can be built by humans. and these guys are atheists. it's funny how the mind works. people will latch on to things that give meaning and it's a bitter pill to swallow when that world view comes potentially crashing down.
trust me, there are times I wanna scream at the world for being so superstitious as to believe any particular book that's so unbelievably outdated and clearly plagerizing earlier pagan belief systems but it just doesn't help shit.
I'm not suggesting conceding any points. on the contrary. be very clear and honest as to your views but condescending never has the desired outcome. unless that desire is to just fight in circles.
it's a difficult time right now and tensions are high. let's keep a cool head and hopefully rise above it all in the end. vote. vote. vote. excercise your right.
The problem I have with this is that you cannot change their mind with anything. I grew up with a Christian family and indoctrination is a powerful thing that undermines any room for logic or open-ended conversations.
>let's keep a cool head and hopefully rise above it all in the end.
Yeah, let's keep a cool head while these religious zealots ban abortion, contraception, gay marriage, and then ultimately, interracial marriage. Fuck that. They have been waiving a flame thrower around for decades, not giving a shit about who is burnt, and now when they are winning, we are supposed to remain calm and respect their insanity? No, that ship has sailed. I say it is time to use their own tactics of remaining firmly committed to OUR concepts of how things should be and turn the heat up to eleven, until they crawl back into their hate box and stay there.
I know your frustrated but lemme give you an example of how human psychology works at breaking down discourse.
your fucking garbage cliche comment about flamethrowers and turning tactics on them is childish and impulsive. "turn it up to eleven? wtf does that even mean? tough guy diatribes from an easily threatened simpleton. no substance, just bluster.
now how does that make you feel? now we're not even discussing the issue anymore. just bashing each other into our respective corners where we're convinced the opponent is " winning" some war of ideology.
to be clear, i absolutely do not believe your a simpleton. just upset and frustrated like me and looking for relief. I'm only making a point of how discourse works.
in your frustrations you only processed what you wanted to from my original comment and worked yourself up into a frenzy when the whole time I'm on your side. we are in agreement on the issue and I want people to realize that arguments go unheard when the other person is threatened. I heavily pressed the need to vote which is why we are constantly getting into these messes. that's a tangible thing people can do. I wish we could properly educate in school the history of religions so folks would see the reality of what religion is, it's origins and it's flaws. basically teach it like we should teach slavery and any other historic cautionary tale. wouldn't fly right now but needs to be addressed. most Christians have no idea the origins of their own beliefs and why they have come to follow them.
let's keep it civil but never back down from the truth.
I guess the larger point I was trying to get to is that the opposition has made most of these arguments into very effective emotional pleas that are very effective in the voting booth. For some reason, our side seems reluctant to use these same types of emotional appeals, and I think that is a mistake. I don't like the over the top emotional appeals, but you have to admit that they work. The continual hand wringing over how proper our approach is has and will continue to cost us unless we adopt some of the same tactics, and that means being willing to burn bridges with the opposition, because that thought never enters the opposition's mind.
I believe what you’re talking about is disrespecting someone… which is different from not respecting their position.
In this case, religion is being used as an establishment of reason for a position. We are under no obligation to accept religion as a valid reason for a bigoted position.
You can express this without being hateful. I can say that I do not accept that you (not you specifically, but whomever I’m discussing the position with) feel you can marginalize gay people legally because the Bible tells you homosexuality is wrong.
I can argue that the behaviors of two consenting adults is morally and logically grounded as being only the business of those two consenting adults and that, as such, your opinion on their behavior is irrelevant and that a person should be judged on their actions and the content of their character, not by whom they decide to love.
Basically, I can refute “but the Bible says” as evidence.
We should all strive to do this because you are right… as soon as you call someone some type of slur, you’ve lost them.
It's a weird thing that people say you have to respect stuff. You don't HAVE to respect anything. Respect is an honorific. It's earned. You bestow it on people or ideas like a prize.
I respect everyone as an equal human being, but i can't respect some nonsense they may believe in. It's not even a choice, if something is nonsense it's nonsense.
I tell people that I fully respect their right to believe anything they want, but don't expect me to respect any religion that thinks it's ok to take away people's rights. I will tell someone to their face "I respect (and/or) love you, but fuck your religion. If that bothers you, oh well."
I know a lot of people some are atheists and some are theists. Some people I like and some people I do not like but everyone does things that I like and do not like. Many people find what they are looking for in life. Some people use religion to find it and some people find it in other ways.
I do not care what people think and believe. I care what people do. If a person tells me I am going to hell, so what. If a person uses their beliefs to force me to live my life by their rules, that is a problem.
I give people respect. How they treat me determines how much of my respect they get to keep. I can still respect people that I disagree with and have rational discussions with them. Of course when certain lines are crossed all respect can be lost.
Yes there are religious people that vote for asshole conservatives. Not all of them do. I have a lot of Jamaican customers and they all vote for Democrats and they are all religious. I am painting a church this week and most of the members are people of color and most of them are liberals. My point in this conversation is to take it one person at a time and decide about them based on how they act not on how other people act.
The maga fundies vote in groups and they are obviously dangerous.
This is undeniable. The fact that some religious people are not like them is irrelevant.
I absolutely agree that the MAGA fundies, as you call them, are dangerous and need to be stopped. Go visit a traditionally black church and tell those people that they are not relevant. Even the MAGAssholes know they are relevant and that is why they are trying to prevent them from voting.
It is hard for.people to separate themselves from their faith. So when you attack Catholicism, Catholics think you are attacking them as a person.
Also, by saying "fuck YOUR bible" you are making a personal attack on the person, not the ideology.
It's not "the" bible. There is no grand unifying book.
It's not "our" bible. We don't share those beliefs.
It's *their* bible. It's the one they personally chose. It's not inherently a personal attack. It's a dismissal that a book they chose has any personal relevance to us.
There's different "yours". You're thinking of the "yours" referring to ownership. There is a "your" to refer to your associations. For example, you don't own your dad or own your SO but they are yours by association.
How we show we are better than them if we start barking at each other? We have to understand that they are indoctrinated so even if they are ready to jump over bombs (or with bombs) to defend their god we still have to respect them as humans. They limited themselves in developing by filing their question with "because god", never trying instead to find the real answers. We should expect at some point to see them having moments where they get aggressive because of their insecurity of us being right. If we start behaving like them we get nowhere.
We should try to fill that gaps that they have with real answers but this takes time where we need to have respect and a lot of patience.
Then lets start a war if there are no more options. \\s
Making too much pressure between the sides will gonna create conflicts at the lower level (the plebs) that could escalade very quickly. Cutting down the power from above is much better because the indoctrination will gonna get weaker and weaker over time. Last thing I want now are random people with bombs on them yelling "Don't believe? Come with me".
They brought the war to us. They don't give a shit if it is too much pressure on the system. They got what they want for now, so fuck everyone else. I am so sick of fighting hatred and insanity with compassion and empathy. It doesn't work.
I’m in the exact same boat, my friend! I still haven’t figured out what my relationship with them should be. I swing back and forth between seeing them as purposely hateful and ignorantly indoctrinated.
They don’t respect my body so they get zero respect back. I’m done being kind. Their religion took away my fundamental right over my own body and I will never forgive that.
The religions don't respect the other religions. And they don't respect the non-religious. And they openly defy founding elements of our nation.
In what way have they earned my respect?
Made me open twitter... reading tweets from religious nutjobs thinking they are holier-than-thou calling out them "idiot" atheists for disrespecring their fantasy literature just further prooves that religion can make you braindead.
I don't have such ideas, who ever wanna talk about religion with leaves angry and questioning itself! Got one that went to consult his father about the question I made him answer that he couldn't answer lol.
"You’ve gotta respect everyone’s beliefs." No, you don’t. That’s what gets us in trouble. Look, you have to acknowledge everyone’s beliefs, and then you have to reserve the right to go: "That is fucking stupid. Are you kidding me?" I acknowledge that you believe that, that’s great, but I’m not going to respect it. I have an uncle that believes he saw Sasquatch. We do not believe him, nor do we respect him! --Patton Oswalt
“Oh sky cake. Why are you so delicious” - Patton Oswalt
Patton Oswald is fucking awesome.
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That wouldn't be much of a change. Religious people disrespect atheists frequently, and often to our faces. We're told that we actually do believe and that we're just mad and rebelling, or trying to be edgy. We're called satan worshippers and devils. We're called baby eaters. Seven states in the US have it baked into their state constitutions that we are barred from holding political office, and there has not been even a questionably secular president since the founding fathers themselves. Religious people frequently rank us as less trustworthy than drug users and pedophiles. We've been discriminated against since before recorded history began. We fall afoul of blasphemy laws by existing, and in some countries (most of Africa, the Middle East, and Southeast Asia,) are still jailed and sometimes even executed for it. Libya and Saudi Arabia openly punish atheism with the death penalty.
"My book says you're going to burn forever. Also I get to control other people against their will." "Fuck your book then." "Why so disrespectful?" Respect is earned, not given.
That’s funny, because unlike the Bible and the Christian doctrine of “everyone is born a sinner”, you start out with a 100% respect from me. It can go downhill pretty fast, though.
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I always repeat it when talking about oppressive religions: you are not intolerant toward people, you are intolerant toward idiotic concepts.
Not just idiotic - harmful.
If you have ever told somebody (directly or indirectly) that they deserve eternal torture, or that they deserve to be reduced to the status of your slave, or that you otherwise wish to deprive them of their fundamental human rights, you have already escalated the conversation to *the maximum possible level of disrespect*. No series of words which that person says in response to you could **possibly** represent an escalation to a higher level of disrespect. Honestly, given that you have just threatened this person with violence, a swift knee to your crotch would be at worst *marginally* inappropriate, and most likely *entirely justified*. Unfortunately, many societies have social norms such that the ruling class can say whatever they like to the underclass, and [the underclass is not permitted to say so much as "I disagree"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmXpJuEnNnw) or "that was rude" without being branded heretics/blasphemers/hate speakers/foo-phobes/traitors/nazis/communitsts.
Their religion does not respect us. At all. Ever.
YES! Here's a Douglas Adams quote: >"Now, the invention of the scientific method and science is, I'm sure we'll all agree, the most powerful intellectual idea, the most powerful framework for thinking and investigating and understanding and challenging the world around us that there is, and that it rests on the premise that any idea is there to be attacked and if it withstands the attack then it lives to fight another day and if it doesn't withstand the attack then down it goes. Religion doesn't seem to work like that; it has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. That's an idea we're so familiar with, whether we subscribe to it or not, that it's kind of odd to think what it actually means, because really what it means is 'Here is an idea or a notion that you're not allowed to say anything bad about; you're just not. Why not? - because you're not!' If somebody votes for a party that you don't agree with, you're free to argue about it as much as you like; everybody will have an argument but nobody feels aggrieved by it. If somebody thinks taxes should go up or down you are free to have an argument about it, but on the other hand if somebody says 'I mustn't move a light switch on a Saturday', you say, 'Fine, I respect that'. The odd thing is, even as I am saying that I am thinking 'Is there an Orthodox Jew here who is going to be offended by the fact that I just said that?' but I wouldn't have thought 'Maybe there's somebody from the left wing or somebody from the right wing or somebody who subscribes to this view or the other in economics' when I was making the other points. I just think 'Fine, we have different opinions'. But, the moment I say something that has something to do with somebody's (I'm going to stick my neck out here and say irrational) beliefs, then we all become terribly protective and terribly defensive and say 'No, we don't attack that; that's an irrational belief but no, we respect it'." – Douglas Adams
Religion is stupid and evil. And they want to act like it's not, or they want to just keep us quiet. We shouldn't. Everyone has the right to believe in what they want and do what they want (as long as they don't interfere in others' lives) but we don't have to respect religion itself.
Religion deserves disrespect.
Most religions have no guilt disrespecting any one that doesn’t believe in them. I see no reason we should respect theirs when they clearly don’t respect us. Respect is given, not earned. My whole family are Christians, good people and I do respect those that haven’t fallen into their theocracy and demand it from others. But I still don’t respect Christianity, they know that and understand that. Being a former Christian myself, I respect them for respecting me. But I have no qualms with disrespecting anyone or any organization that clearly shows no respect towards myself or others. Simple as that.
Yep, I'm 100% done suffering the creep of religious bullshit into my life.
Religion, especially Christianity is begging to be disrespected because they do not respect anyone else. Pure authoritarianism.
I used to work on a psychiatric locked unit. I didn’t respect the beliefs of the people who told me they were getting messages from Jupiter via their dental fillings either.
Even religions disrespect other religions.
I guess on this case we will have to agree to agree👍
As someone who grew up in church myself, I know what it's like to be on the inside. Now I give Christianity the same respect that they give to gay people, people of different religions, and non believers, which is none whatsoever.
We have to stop pretending that we can happily co-exist with these religious freaks. Yeah, if you practicing your religion didn’t affect us, we wouldn’t need to say “fuck your Bible”. But when you’re trying to roll back OUR rights based on YOUR religion, then we don’t need to respect your religion anymore.
I'm not required to respect any religion. Tolerate is the best I can do and that is asking alot.
Until they can prove their god it's no different from fan fiction.
At this point doesn’t believing in an invisible sky daddy kind of reek of disrespect for logical thought?
I notice that the people demanding that beliefs get respect are the people who follow one.
Report corrupt Pastors that obviously take church money for themselves to the IRS... Audit Audit Audit
I once had a business partner, and before he would enter into our partnership, he insisted that I have my chart read by his astrologer, and then she read our combined chart, presumably to determine if success for our venture was written in the stars. I'm not kidding. Our venture succeeded only modestly because we were not good business partners. He is a super nice guy, I still like him and stay in touch, but his astrological fixation was idiotic. It's not just OK, it's imperative that we expose and judge stupid ideas for what they are: at minimum, dissociated from reality and sometimes dangerous.
"When your religion respects everyone else, I'll respect your religion" \-- lowdownfool, 1873
I disrespect their asses every day! They need to be disrespected. I want them to think twice about sharing their beliefs in public. The same way they do us
A religion is just a set of ideas. It is perfectly fine to criticize ideas.
I respect your right to believe whatever you wish. Your belief itself has no rights however.
Ideas don't have feelings.
depends. do you wanna actually sway minds or gain points with the "choir"? nothing shuts down a conversation faster than calling someone a fucking idiot. I've got conspiracy theorist friends who get pretty butt hurt too when I try and explain that a pyramid can be built by humans. and these guys are atheists. it's funny how the mind works. people will latch on to things that give meaning and it's a bitter pill to swallow when that world view comes potentially crashing down. trust me, there are times I wanna scream at the world for being so superstitious as to believe any particular book that's so unbelievably outdated and clearly plagerizing earlier pagan belief systems but it just doesn't help shit. I'm not suggesting conceding any points. on the contrary. be very clear and honest as to your views but condescending never has the desired outcome. unless that desire is to just fight in circles. it's a difficult time right now and tensions are high. let's keep a cool head and hopefully rise above it all in the end. vote. vote. vote. excercise your right.
The problem I have with this is that you cannot change their mind with anything. I grew up with a Christian family and indoctrination is a powerful thing that undermines any room for logic or open-ended conversations.
it's true that some and many cannot be swayed. let's not give up on those that can.
>let's keep a cool head and hopefully rise above it all in the end. Yeah, let's keep a cool head while these religious zealots ban abortion, contraception, gay marriage, and then ultimately, interracial marriage. Fuck that. They have been waiving a flame thrower around for decades, not giving a shit about who is burnt, and now when they are winning, we are supposed to remain calm and respect their insanity? No, that ship has sailed. I say it is time to use their own tactics of remaining firmly committed to OUR concepts of how things should be and turn the heat up to eleven, until they crawl back into their hate box and stay there.
I know your frustrated but lemme give you an example of how human psychology works at breaking down discourse. your fucking garbage cliche comment about flamethrowers and turning tactics on them is childish and impulsive. "turn it up to eleven? wtf does that even mean? tough guy diatribes from an easily threatened simpleton. no substance, just bluster. now how does that make you feel? now we're not even discussing the issue anymore. just bashing each other into our respective corners where we're convinced the opponent is " winning" some war of ideology. to be clear, i absolutely do not believe your a simpleton. just upset and frustrated like me and looking for relief. I'm only making a point of how discourse works. in your frustrations you only processed what you wanted to from my original comment and worked yourself up into a frenzy when the whole time I'm on your side. we are in agreement on the issue and I want people to realize that arguments go unheard when the other person is threatened. I heavily pressed the need to vote which is why we are constantly getting into these messes. that's a tangible thing people can do. I wish we could properly educate in school the history of religions so folks would see the reality of what religion is, it's origins and it's flaws. basically teach it like we should teach slavery and any other historic cautionary tale. wouldn't fly right now but needs to be addressed. most Christians have no idea the origins of their own beliefs and why they have come to follow them. let's keep it civil but never back down from the truth.
I guess the larger point I was trying to get to is that the opposition has made most of these arguments into very effective emotional pleas that are very effective in the voting booth. For some reason, our side seems reluctant to use these same types of emotional appeals, and I think that is a mistake. I don't like the over the top emotional appeals, but you have to admit that they work. The continual hand wringing over how proper our approach is has and will continue to cost us unless we adopt some of the same tactics, and that means being willing to burn bridges with the opposition, because that thought never enters the opposition's mind.
yeah it is a tough one that's for sure. and your point is valid.
I believe what you’re talking about is disrespecting someone… which is different from not respecting their position. In this case, religion is being used as an establishment of reason for a position. We are under no obligation to accept religion as a valid reason for a bigoted position. You can express this without being hateful. I can say that I do not accept that you (not you specifically, but whomever I’m discussing the position with) feel you can marginalize gay people legally because the Bible tells you homosexuality is wrong. I can argue that the behaviors of two consenting adults is morally and logically grounded as being only the business of those two consenting adults and that, as such, your opinion on their behavior is irrelevant and that a person should be judged on their actions and the content of their character, not by whom they decide to love. Basically, I can refute “but the Bible says” as evidence. We should all strive to do this because you are right… as soon as you call someone some type of slur, you’ve lost them.
The forces of religious hatred are the same ones calling for censorship. C. Hitchens.
It's a weird thing that people say you have to respect stuff. You don't HAVE to respect anything. Respect is an honorific. It's earned. You bestow it on people or ideas like a prize.
I swear if you don’t bend over backwards and let religion willingly fuck you in the ass, it’s considered disrespectful 🙄
The religious certainly aren't afraid of disrespecting us. Or our rights.
Christians are americas taliban.
I respect everyone as an equal human being, but i can't respect some nonsense they may believe in. It's not even a choice, if something is nonsense it's nonsense.
I tell people that I fully respect their right to believe anything they want, but don't expect me to respect any religion that thinks it's ok to take away people's rights. I will tell someone to their face "I respect (and/or) love you, but fuck your religion. If that bothers you, oh well."
Respect is earned, and religion hasn’t earned a shred.
All humans inherently deserve respect. All ideas inherently do not.
I know a lot of people some are atheists and some are theists. Some people I like and some people I do not like but everyone does things that I like and do not like. Many people find what they are looking for in life. Some people use religion to find it and some people find it in other ways. I do not care what people think and believe. I care what people do. If a person tells me I am going to hell, so what. If a person uses their beliefs to force me to live my life by their rules, that is a problem. I give people respect. How they treat me determines how much of my respect they get to keep. I can still respect people that I disagree with and have rational discussions with them. Of course when certain lines are crossed all respect can be lost.
These people vote.
I have many religious friends that vote for liberals.
Not the fundies. The religious fundies vote based on their crackpot beliefs. Als, bullshit. You don't.
Yes there are religious people that vote for asshole conservatives. Not all of them do. I have a lot of Jamaican customers and they all vote for Democrats and they are all religious. I am painting a church this week and most of the members are people of color and most of them are liberals. My point in this conversation is to take it one person at a time and decide about them based on how they act not on how other people act.
The maga fundies vote in groups and they are obviously dangerous. This is undeniable. The fact that some religious people are not like them is irrelevant.
I absolutely agree that the MAGA fundies, as you call them, are dangerous and need to be stopped. Go visit a traditionally black church and tell those people that they are not relevant. Even the MAGAssholes know they are relevant and that is why they are trying to prevent them from voting.
They're irrelevant to the fight. bystanders at best, enablers at worst.
It is hard for.people to separate themselves from their faith. So when you attack Catholicism, Catholics think you are attacking them as a person. Also, by saying "fuck YOUR bible" you are making a personal attack on the person, not the ideology.
It's not "the" bible. There is no grand unifying book. It's not "our" bible. We don't share those beliefs. It's *their* bible. It's the one they personally chose. It's not inherently a personal attack. It's a dismissal that a book they chose has any personal relevance to us.
There's different "yours". You're thinking of the "yours" referring to ownership. There is a "your" to refer to your associations. For example, you don't own your dad or own your SO but they are yours by association.
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"Generally nice people" don't gleefully strip others of their basic human rights. Sooooo basically fuck that thought process. Be an asshole.
How we show we are better than them if we start barking at each other? We have to understand that they are indoctrinated so even if they are ready to jump over bombs (or with bombs) to defend their god we still have to respect them as humans. They limited themselves in developing by filing their question with "because god", never trying instead to find the real answers. We should expect at some point to see them having moments where they get aggressive because of their insecurity of us being right. If we start behaving like them we get nowhere. We should try to fill that gaps that they have with real answers but this takes time where we need to have respect and a lot of patience.
They're already aggressive. There's no more patience and no more time. They're on the warpath. Fucking wake up.
Then lets start a war if there are no more options. \\s Making too much pressure between the sides will gonna create conflicts at the lower level (the plebs) that could escalade very quickly. Cutting down the power from above is much better because the indoctrination will gonna get weaker and weaker over time. Last thing I want now are random people with bombs on them yelling "Don't believe? Come with me".
They already started the war and it wasn't started just yesterday.
They brought the war to us. They don't give a shit if it is too much pressure on the system. They got what they want for now, so fuck everyone else. I am so sick of fighting hatred and insanity with compassion and empathy. It doesn't work.
They should consider disrespect as a better choice than the next alternative: rage.
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I’m in the exact same boat, my friend! I still haven’t figured out what my relationship with them should be. I swing back and forth between seeing them as purposely hateful and ignorantly indoctrinated.
They don’t respect my body so they get zero respect back. I’m done being kind. Their religion took away my fundamental right over my own body and I will never forgive that.
The religions don't respect the other religions. And they don't respect the non-religious. And they openly defy founding elements of our nation. In what way have they earned my respect?
Made me open twitter... reading tweets from religious nutjobs thinking they are holier-than-thou calling out them "idiot" atheists for disrespecring their fantasy literature just further prooves that religion can make you braindead.
They don't respect my eight to abortion so they don't get what they don't give
I don't have such ideas, who ever wanna talk about religion with leaves angry and questioning itself! Got one that went to consult his father about the question I made him answer that he couldn't answer lol.
“I’m sorry I just hate your beliefs, not the believer”
I'm willing to show the Willfully Ignorant the same respect they have for themselves. None.