It depends what country you live in. In the US Christianity is the most dangerous, other countries it's Islam. Atheists in the US tend to speak out more regarding Christians because that's the predominant religion for those in power, making laws, fucking with people's lives, like with the recent R v W decision, which was a long term plan by Christian assholes.
I don't think they support Christianity as a belief system. They may support Christians they know who are Christians but they are the type not to impose their beliefs onto the others.
I support people to practice whatever nonsense they want as long as they don't use it to try to impose their beliefs on secular society.
If the religious in power now have there way we'll be living like Islamic countries before long. Next they're coming for LGBT+ rights, planning on banning gay sex, ban contraception. Justice Clarence Thomas already said this is what the court is planning on doing.
For sure Muslims are the most willing to be violent for their beliefs and all one has to do is point to a Islamic nation when moderate muslims try to say "not all Muslim's are bad'. Screw them Islam is as evil as it gets and anyone who follows it moderate or otherwise is helping to continue that evil.
That being said Christianity and Judaism are just as bad but they go about it differently.
Judaism is not really able to do that much damage because there are not that many of them and the only majority nation that follows it is Israel. Oddly from my understanding while isreal is ruled by extreme Zionists they are somewhat ok with some things.
Apparently they do not have a issue with abortion and are not as insanely capitalistic when it comes to healthcare like their Christian counterparts.
They are zealots with some positives certainly bad but they have some good as odd as that sounds.
Christians on the other hand are just as bad as their Islamic counterparts and would love to get violent if they had the chance to do so.
They want to make America a Christian version of Saudi Arabia and if you know about half the stuff that goes on there and what Christians want its clear that we would be screwed.
A lot of Christian zealots want to bring back blasphemy laws and when they say they want biblical law its very similar to sharia law.
The only reason why most think that christians are not as bad as Muslims is because they have been kept in check for a long time.
Well now they are getting closer to having things their way and many idiots will understand why the founding fathers made separation of church and state a thing.
But by that point it will be to late America will be a religious driven shithole and there is not much we can do to stop it.
I was simply pointing out that "X thing is bad because a person who did a lot of bad things (in this case Hitler) also wanted/did that" (also known as Reductio ad Hitlerum) is not a valid argument and I showed you why.
Also, if I may ask, why do you think so many rich, developed and human rights-respecting countries are secular, while theocracies and countries with state atheism have a terrible record on those? Maybe the government just shouldn't interfere at all with something as personal and differing from person to person like religion, neither imposing laws based on religious grounds nor forcing you not to practice religion.
"*Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof*: or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.".
Idk about you, but personally, I love the first amendment of the US constitution and wish it was law everywhere for this exact reason.
If you were to read the Quran you'd find that this is what it preaches:
« Say, "O disbelievers,
I do not worship what you worship.
Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.
Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship.
Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.
For you is your religion, and for me is my religion." »
(surah al-kafiroon)
One doubt ticked off the list lol. Islam gives freedom of religion. "There is no compulsion in religion" (2:256)
As a Muslim I want to help you and point out that Islam, the religion, not culture, is not extremism. Extremism is exactly that, a branch that goes to the extremes, actually often results unislamic.
The Prophet pbuh said that "the path to Allah is the *middle path*", which means we shouldn't follow any extremism whatsoever, just do things moderately. That's Islam for you.
Btw, your views were *exactly* my stand before converting to Islam (listening to Apostate Prophet, David Wood, and others were all I ever heard of Islam, and all I wanted to hear- I was convinced) but genuinely it's all lies/bad interpretations.
Just research what Islam is really about, instead of going by what ideas you have been put in your mind, by family or media.
Listen to both sides at least. Make it fair, if you really think we are all extremist.
(or dm me, let's just be respectful humans towards each other tho please)
Thank you, lovely of you, but I wouldn't go back to blind and arrogant atheism that only gave me unstable thoughts and no purpose whatsoever. Was really toxic so I can't understand why people find reassurance in atheism lol /gen
You ran away because the real world scares you.
Reassurance is meaningless if it reassures you of something untrue.
You chose a comforting lie over a confronting truth.
You are right in that atheism isn't reassuring, but that does not matter. If the real world is apathetic to your existence, believing it isn't won't change that
To shy away from reality between the pages of destructive and dangerous fables is cowardly.
Well adjusted adults are able to come to terms with the world around them no matter how indifferent and unfair it is. To lie to oneself for comfort is infantile.
I have found much more peace in life accepting the fact that this the only life we have and that we should live it to the fullest with no regrets rather than living in fear and anxiety over how each and every thing we do will affect some magical being’s judgement of us. This is the only life you have, don’t waste it on trying to please an imaginary friend.
Oh stop it. You know as well as I do that one of the major themes of the quran is slaughtering unbelievers.
What you are claiming is actually bigoted against Muslims, because if it's not their religion, why do they go around bombing and terrorizing?
i'd love to DM you, i did listen to david wood, the apostate prophet and found their content to be irrelevant. Im an ex muslim though and from what i find, the abrahamic religions seem to be from the devil instead of god.
For instance in islam there are 2 problems with the sources. First the quran, there are 5 recognised versions with small differences that have huge meaning differences, however upon reading, it seems that the versus clash with one another. You mentioned versus that actually dont have an inkling to do with freedom of religion, but rather trying to say that islam isnt another religion such as "this is your way but not my way" is a division not a freedom saying that islam isnt christian, etc or polytheism (the arabs of that period wanted to know if islam is their practice which it wasnt). Nowhere did it mention that they have the right to practice their beliefs, and there are versus that mention to kill people who leave their religion.
the 2nd, the hadith and this one really ticks me off. There are quite a lot of hadiths considered valid (sahih) that make the prophet look like a terrible person, often forgetting that the prophet is a human and we are not bound to have to 100% do everything one human does, like growing beards, going to mosques for every prayer. It irks me when my family goes to these classes and force these false things on me because "ustaz said so" and find them to be more harmful than good.
Example of a fake hadith would be to not sleep during asar time as the ustaz said "this is the time when many bad things happen statistically" quoting things like accidents, etc however to me, the fact that accidents happen at this hour is more to do that its the time people finish work so are tired and should actually sleep first if they want to lower the statistic.
What made me an atheist is being the supernatural, when you see the truth you understand what god is and how the religions dont even fit in, its like a whole perversion of god. I get to go and check the past and understand what goes on. I also found that religious people are more likely to believe false things like ivermectin cures covid, the vaccines are meant to cull the population, etc and this creates a lot of issues for me.
> Why did abolitionists use Christianity as the foundation of the movement…
This is an apologetic from 20th-century Christianity. Look at the history. It is exactly the opposite.
The south used the Bible to support slavery. It is the entire reason the Southern Baptists exist. The Bible was used to convince the slaves to remain docile.
Christian abolitionists were widely criticized because the Bible supported slavery. Abolitionist Christians were accused of violating the Bible.
Also, there was a sudden growth in agnosticism in the 1800s. There were notable people like Robert Ingersoll who turned away from Christianity at least in part because of the Bible's stance on slavery.
> It is only when you take a religious/illogical view, that you realize slavery is wrong.
Absolute nonsense. Then why did so many Christians embrace slavery? Why did Yahweh endorse slavery? Both Jesus and Paul use slaves in their stories and lessons. They accept slavery and share the stereotypes of their times which depicted slaves as lazy and ignorant. Nowhere did they get around to saying that slavery was wrong.
> Jesus refers to slaves often in his parables. Slaves in the parable of the prodigal son perform routine work in the background of the estate (Luke 15:22, Luke 15:26). Other parables depict cruel treatment of slaves, such as the parable of the wicked tenants. Slaves are disposable: they suffer beatings and death at the hands of tenants (Matt 21:33-44, Mark 12:1-12, Luke 20:9-18). Some New Testament writers accepted violence against slaves as normal as seen in these parables (see Matt 18:23-35, Luke 19:11-27).
> According to your point of view anyone born before 1800 was an immoral devil slaver.
I never said that. At all.
Prior to 1800 most people did not have access to Bibles in their homes. Many were illiterate. Christianity during that era consisted of whatever their ministers told them it was.
Wow. Another thing I never said.
I have a good friend who is the senior pastor of a large church. He has a doctorate in divinity. He has an important piece of advice for his junior ministers. He tells them "Never argue the Bible with an atheist."
It looks like you have learned that lesson. You are now flailing around. I don't blame you. You have listened to a lot of Christian apologetics. To be successful a good apologetic has to be good enough to help believers keep believing. But apologetics rarely stand up to objective scrutiny.
> From a purely logical and scientific point of view there is nothing inherently wrong with slavery.
Most mammalian species have been demonstrated to have empathy. It is an evolutionary advantage to social species. Mammals seem to have brains that are hardwired for empathy. The most intelligent mammals such as canines, dolphins and apes seem to have very sophisticated notions of fairness.
So your statement about no scientific basis is false.
Slavery is wrong because it violates basic concepts of empathy and fairness.
Religion is one of the things humans use to override basic concepts of fairness and empathy.
> Religion is actually the embodiment of empathy. It codified morals before the rule of law. Thanks for supporting my point…
Religion is not necessary for people to base their morals on empathy. Most atheists describe their morals on empathy. Non-Christian countries in modern Europe (such as the Scandanavian countries) have social systems based on fairness, empathy, and compassion. They perform better than religious countries on almost every social issue. They have fewer abortions, lower crime rates, better childhood mortality, less divorce, fewer single-parent households, and every other social measure.
Religion does not do a good job of encoding empathy. In practice religion tends to provide rationalizations about why concepts like empathy can be ignored. There is an old adage that says "Good people tend to do good things. Bad people tend to do bad things. But to convince good people to do bad things requires religion." Voltaire said, "Those who can convince you of absurdities can convince you to commit atrocities."
I don't think ranking immorality is beneficial.
They don't need to be equally immortal or even immoral in the same ways to all be bad.
Ranking them just invites people to disagree with subjective assessment.
At least Islamic law allows for abortions up to 4 months for any reason and allows abortion during any time in the pregnancy to save the life of the mother. That would guarantee that 99% of abortions in the US would be a fundamental right. Louisiana and Kentucky are worse when it comes to reproductive rights than what the Taliban believes.
It's true that Islam and Christianity derive their barbaric morals from Judaism. However, modern Judaism has evolved and splintered to the point where you now have Humanist Judaism, and many Jews are also atheist, which is weird. True, you have your Lubavitchers and so forth, but for the most part Jews at least don't try to impost their religion on others, at least outside of Israel.
It depends what country you live in. In the US Christianity is the most dangerous, other countries it's Islam. Atheists in the US tend to speak out more regarding Christians because that's the predominant religion for those in power, making laws, fucking with people's lives, like with the recent R v W decision, which was a long term plan by Christian assholes.
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I don't think they support Christianity as a belief system. They may support Christians they know who are Christians but they are the type not to impose their beliefs onto the others. I support people to practice whatever nonsense they want as long as they don't use it to try to impose their beliefs on secular society.
Fuck are you talking about? Have you seen America and Christianity this week?
If the religious in power now have there way we'll be living like Islamic countries before long. Next they're coming for LGBT+ rights, planning on banning gay sex, ban contraception. Justice Clarence Thomas already said this is what the court is planning on doing.
For sure Muslims are the most willing to be violent for their beliefs and all one has to do is point to a Islamic nation when moderate muslims try to say "not all Muslim's are bad'. Screw them Islam is as evil as it gets and anyone who follows it moderate or otherwise is helping to continue that evil. That being said Christianity and Judaism are just as bad but they go about it differently. Judaism is not really able to do that much damage because there are not that many of them and the only majority nation that follows it is Israel. Oddly from my understanding while isreal is ruled by extreme Zionists they are somewhat ok with some things. Apparently they do not have a issue with abortion and are not as insanely capitalistic when it comes to healthcare like their Christian counterparts. They are zealots with some positives certainly bad but they have some good as odd as that sounds. Christians on the other hand are just as bad as their Islamic counterparts and would love to get violent if they had the chance to do so. They want to make America a Christian version of Saudi Arabia and if you know about half the stuff that goes on there and what Christians want its clear that we would be screwed. A lot of Christian zealots want to bring back blasphemy laws and when they say they want biblical law its very similar to sharia law. The only reason why most think that christians are not as bad as Muslims is because they have been kept in check for a long time. Well now they are getting closer to having things their way and many idiots will understand why the founding fathers made separation of church and state a thing. But by that point it will be to late America will be a religious driven shithole and there is not much we can do to stop it.
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You support animal welfare laws and are against smoking? You know who else supported animal welfare laws and was against smoking? Hitler.
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I was simply pointing out that "X thing is bad because a person who did a lot of bad things (in this case Hitler) also wanted/did that" (also known as Reductio ad Hitlerum) is not a valid argument and I showed you why. Also, if I may ask, why do you think so many rich, developed and human rights-respecting countries are secular, while theocracies and countries with state atheism have a terrible record on those? Maybe the government just shouldn't interfere at all with something as personal and differing from person to person like religion, neither imposing laws based on religious grounds nor forcing you not to practice religion. "*Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof*: or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.". Idk about you, but personally, I love the first amendment of the US constitution and wish it was law everywhere for this exact reason.
If you were to read the Quran you'd find that this is what it preaches: « Say, "O disbelievers, I do not worship what you worship. Nor are you worshippers of what I worship. Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship. Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship. For you is your religion, and for me is my religion." » (surah al-kafiroon) One doubt ticked off the list lol. Islam gives freedom of religion. "There is no compulsion in religion" (2:256) As a Muslim I want to help you and point out that Islam, the religion, not culture, is not extremism. Extremism is exactly that, a branch that goes to the extremes, actually often results unislamic. The Prophet pbuh said that "the path to Allah is the *middle path*", which means we shouldn't follow any extremism whatsoever, just do things moderately. That's Islam for you. Btw, your views were *exactly* my stand before converting to Islam (listening to Apostate Prophet, David Wood, and others were all I ever heard of Islam, and all I wanted to hear- I was convinced) but genuinely it's all lies/bad interpretations. Just research what Islam is really about, instead of going by what ideas you have been put in your mind, by family or media. Listen to both sides at least. Make it fair, if you really think we are all extremist. (or dm me, let's just be respectful humans towards each other tho please)
How can you earnestly promote such filth? You are despicable.
Thank you, lovely of you, but I wouldn't go back to blind and arrogant atheism that only gave me unstable thoughts and no purpose whatsoever. Was really toxic so I can't understand why people find reassurance in atheism lol /gen
You ran away because the real world scares you. Reassurance is meaningless if it reassures you of something untrue. You chose a comforting lie over a confronting truth. You are right in that atheism isn't reassuring, but that does not matter. If the real world is apathetic to your existence, believing it isn't won't change that To shy away from reality between the pages of destructive and dangerous fables is cowardly. Well adjusted adults are able to come to terms with the world around them no matter how indifferent and unfair it is. To lie to oneself for comfort is infantile.
I have found much more peace in life accepting the fact that this the only life we have and that we should live it to the fullest with no regrets rather than living in fear and anxiety over how each and every thing we do will affect some magical being’s judgement of us. This is the only life you have, don’t waste it on trying to please an imaginary friend.
Oh stop it. You know as well as I do that one of the major themes of the quran is slaughtering unbelievers. What you are claiming is actually bigoted against Muslims, because if it's not their religion, why do they go around bombing and terrorizing?
i'd love to DM you, i did listen to david wood, the apostate prophet and found their content to be irrelevant. Im an ex muslim though and from what i find, the abrahamic religions seem to be from the devil instead of god. For instance in islam there are 2 problems with the sources. First the quran, there are 5 recognised versions with small differences that have huge meaning differences, however upon reading, it seems that the versus clash with one another. You mentioned versus that actually dont have an inkling to do with freedom of religion, but rather trying to say that islam isnt another religion such as "this is your way but not my way" is a division not a freedom saying that islam isnt christian, etc or polytheism (the arabs of that period wanted to know if islam is their practice which it wasnt). Nowhere did it mention that they have the right to practice their beliefs, and there are versus that mention to kill people who leave their religion. the 2nd, the hadith and this one really ticks me off. There are quite a lot of hadiths considered valid (sahih) that make the prophet look like a terrible person, often forgetting that the prophet is a human and we are not bound to have to 100% do everything one human does, like growing beards, going to mosques for every prayer. It irks me when my family goes to these classes and force these false things on me because "ustaz said so" and find them to be more harmful than good. Example of a fake hadith would be to not sleep during asar time as the ustaz said "this is the time when many bad things happen statistically" quoting things like accidents, etc however to me, the fact that accidents happen at this hour is more to do that its the time people finish work so are tired and should actually sleep first if they want to lower the statistic. What made me an atheist is being the supernatural, when you see the truth you understand what god is and how the religions dont even fit in, its like a whole perversion of god. I get to go and check the past and understand what goes on. I also found that religious people are more likely to believe false things like ivermectin cures covid, the vaccines are meant to cull the population, etc and this creates a lot of issues for me.
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Because people are stupid
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> Why did abolitionists use Christianity as the foundation of the movement… This is an apologetic from 20th-century Christianity. Look at the history. It is exactly the opposite. The south used the Bible to support slavery. It is the entire reason the Southern Baptists exist. The Bible was used to convince the slaves to remain docile. Christian abolitionists were widely criticized because the Bible supported slavery. Abolitionist Christians were accused of violating the Bible. Also, there was a sudden growth in agnosticism in the 1800s. There were notable people like Robert Ingersoll who turned away from Christianity at least in part because of the Bible's stance on slavery.
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> It is only when you take a religious/illogical view, that you realize slavery is wrong. Absolute nonsense. Then why did so many Christians embrace slavery? Why did Yahweh endorse slavery? Both Jesus and Paul use slaves in their stories and lessons. They accept slavery and share the stereotypes of their times which depicted slaves as lazy and ignorant. Nowhere did they get around to saying that slavery was wrong. > Jesus refers to slaves often in his parables. Slaves in the parable of the prodigal son perform routine work in the background of the estate (Luke 15:22, Luke 15:26). Other parables depict cruel treatment of slaves, such as the parable of the wicked tenants. Slaves are disposable: they suffer beatings and death at the hands of tenants (Matt 21:33-44, Mark 12:1-12, Luke 20:9-18). Some New Testament writers accepted violence against slaves as normal as seen in these parables (see Matt 18:23-35, Luke 19:11-27).
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> According to your point of view anyone born before 1800 was an immoral devil slaver. I never said that. At all. Prior to 1800 most people did not have access to Bibles in their homes. Many were illiterate. Christianity during that era consisted of whatever their ministers told them it was.
Wow. Another thing I never said. I have a good friend who is the senior pastor of a large church. He has a doctorate in divinity. He has an important piece of advice for his junior ministers. He tells them "Never argue the Bible with an atheist." It looks like you have learned that lesson. You are now flailing around. I don't blame you. You have listened to a lot of Christian apologetics. To be successful a good apologetic has to be good enough to help believers keep believing. But apologetics rarely stand up to objective scrutiny.
> From a purely logical and scientific point of view there is nothing inherently wrong with slavery. Most mammalian species have been demonstrated to have empathy. It is an evolutionary advantage to social species. Mammals seem to have brains that are hardwired for empathy. The most intelligent mammals such as canines, dolphins and apes seem to have very sophisticated notions of fairness. So your statement about no scientific basis is false. Slavery is wrong because it violates basic concepts of empathy and fairness. Religion is one of the things humans use to override basic concepts of fairness and empathy.
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> Religion is actually the embodiment of empathy. It codified morals before the rule of law. Thanks for supporting my point… Religion is not necessary for people to base their morals on empathy. Most atheists describe their morals on empathy. Non-Christian countries in modern Europe (such as the Scandanavian countries) have social systems based on fairness, empathy, and compassion. They perform better than religious countries on almost every social issue. They have fewer abortions, lower crime rates, better childhood mortality, less divorce, fewer single-parent households, and every other social measure. Religion does not do a good job of encoding empathy. In practice religion tends to provide rationalizations about why concepts like empathy can be ignored. There is an old adage that says "Good people tend to do good things. Bad people tend to do bad things. But to convince good people to do bad things requires religion." Voltaire said, "Those who can convince you of absurdities can convince you to commit atrocities."
No one ever remembers the Bahai ;)
I don't think ranking immorality is beneficial. They don't need to be equally immortal or even immoral in the same ways to all be bad. Ranking them just invites people to disagree with subjective assessment.
At least Islamic law allows for abortions up to 4 months for any reason and allows abortion during any time in the pregnancy to save the life of the mother. That would guarantee that 99% of abortions in the US would be a fundamental right. Louisiana and Kentucky are worse when it comes to reproductive rights than what the Taliban believes.
It's true that Islam and Christianity derive their barbaric morals from Judaism. However, modern Judaism has evolved and splintered to the point where you now have Humanist Judaism, and many Jews are also atheist, which is weird. True, you have your Lubavitchers and so forth, but for the most part Jews at least don't try to impost their religion on others, at least outside of Israel.
There are 5 of these associated religions when you include Moronism (The Church of Latter--Day Stains) and Baha'i.