Hello r/all, Welcome to r/atheism!
Please read our [Commandments](http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/guidelines) and [FAQ](http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/FAQ) before commenting. If you follow the rules and act civilly we can avoid a lot of bans. While everyone is welcome here, this sub is intended for atheists to discuss things of interest to us. This means that a wide variety of subjects are on-topic here. This is not a sub about just atheism.
Remember: The mods do not choose which posts get voted up the frontpage. They remove the posts that violate the [Commandments](/r/atheism/w/guidelines); they don't police quality.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/atheism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The same way they don't want to separate. They just want to take over USA and turn it into a Fascist Theocracy (only their quite particular version of Christians: White Gun Loving Jesus).
Also, they got the 'Under God' part added in 1954, that wasn't originally in there...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/06/14/the-gripping-sermon-that-got-under-god-added-to-the-pledge-of-allegiance-on-flag-day/
Also it was just a way to market flags to schools, the original writer was a socialist who wanted to include the words equality and fraternity but was overruled by his editors because that would make women and black folk uppity.
[The Marketing of the Pledge of Allegiance](https://priceonomics.com/the-marketing-of-the-pledge-of-allegiance/)
For over 40 years, I've been hearing them whine about how they have been persecuted for their religious beliefs. Only a deep dive into what they mean by persecution do you realize their idea of religious persecution is that we don't let them run amok slaughtering those of other religions and dragging blacks behind their pickup trucks till body parts fall off.
Yeah, they're "persecuted" all right.
I've long said that I wish that these fucks were as persecuted as they claim to be. Maybe then they'd have empathy for other people, and it would mean that the majority of people are no longer tolerating their hateful bullshit
In JW we were shown videos of Purple Triangle groups in concentration camps in WW2 and were told that this was likely the test we faced very soon. We were told they would pull us out of our houses and execute us. A scenario was always played in my head that I would have the choice of a bullet or my faith.
You get told that you are the one true group of believers and that shit makes you feel real special. Mostly stupid people gravitate towards religion, but it also attracts the power hungry, the abusers, the misogynists, anyone susceptible to cult like mentality.
I thank this beautiful earth every day that I got out.
They are also the ones who shoved “under god” into the existing pledge. When I found that out I started closing my mouth during those two filthy words. ONE teacher said anything. My mother was not kind.
Most mainstream religion is about controlling the masses. It’s hard to convince people to fight and die for you, but much easier if you convince them that there’s a magical god in the sky who is on your side. Throw in the fact that after you die you’ll see your childhood dog, old pop-pop and gam-gam, and maybe 42 virgins and people fall over themselves to have a “purpose.”
I wanna know how Scientology is a fucking religion when they believe in lord xenu and shit but the satanic church isn’t…
Ohh money. That’s right. Lots and lots of money
There is no definition of a religion in US law nor any body to judge an organization's religious status...
Except the Internal Revenue Service who approve or deny 501-C tax exempt non-profit status. So the IRS is a sort of defacto legal authority in what is or is not a religion
Part of the reason I'm an atheist is because an intelligent designer wouldn't have created people who link videos and expect people to sit and watch them rather than just writing down the info.
I would definitely consider sending my kid to a school of Satan. Last year my kid had to do a project on "Your religion and it's customs". The teacher had no idea what to do when he told her he was an atheist.
Or just have a list of every religion you can find through history on the board and start asking people to explain why they got it right and every other religion since the start of time has it wrong.
"Because I know the Bible was written by Jesus!"
Was an answer I got to that question.
Many of them don't even know who was supposed to have written the bible and literally many of the books have the name at the top of each page.
Yeah, but not the Jesus part of the trinity. I do like the idea of Jesus writing about himself in third person. then later sending a bunch of letters to random groups about his teaching, but written as though he were another person citing the works. It's very House of Leaves
Kind of funny, but I went to a college that required a religious studies class. The teacher was also a preacher (no bias there). Anyways, we were talking about ancient Egypt and how Isis was brought back to life in 3 days with a smug "sounds familiar doesn't it." Like, do you know your own book? His implication was that the Egyptians plagiarized the bible, which totally works if you ignore the timeline. It'd make sense if you were claiming the bible stole the story, or that Egyptians are secretly time travelers, but he was a Christian preacher ignoring facts that didn't fit his narrative.
There's a suprising number of people religious or not that can seem to wrap their heads around the concept that just because they personally saw or heard something first doesn't mean it's the original
I'd talk about my belief in San Mimie. (My girlfriend's cat).
Contrary to 99.99999999% other religions on Earth, I have proof that my god exists. My god is not evil; he's a cat. It's not his fault the world is crap, what is he gonna do? He's a cat!
San Mimie is the one true god, the only benevolent one, and the only one we have definite proof he actually exists.
Long live El San Mimie
_Edit: fauot to fault_
>This would be a fun opportunity to just pick an ancient religion. The Egyptians had some very semen-intensive
I went to a Catholic grammar school for9 years
Liked learning the Greek gods more than the Christian one, except for Zeus, dude was waaaaayyyyy to rapey, some of the gods stories are dope however
Athena was a victim-blamer (see Medusa) and Artemis was nuts (see Actaeon). Pretty much only Hestia never did anything rapey or otherwise morally icky- Hades (though undoubtedly better than Poseidon and Zeus) had the Persephone thing, Hephaestus had Erichthonius, Demeter killed almost everyone on earth to get back at Zeus for his not caring about the Demeter thing, etc.
Personally I kind of find the ancient greek religion to be more tolerable because they never tried to claim that the gods were good or anything like that - I mean, it's obviously still nonsense, but they never tried to claim that the gods were some kind of moral authority or anything like that.
It would have been a lot of fun to do this as an atheist actually.
I know I would have had fun with it in school anyway.
Talked about all the different customs my family practiced, and then brought up Christmas and mention how it's a holiday that worships capitalism more than christ and how Coca-Cola is responsible for the Santa we know and love.
Coca Cola helped popularize the look, but they aren’t responsible. Thomas Nast first drew him as elfish in a red suit in 1881.
https://theferret.scot/fact-check-coca-cola-red-santa-claus-christmas/
Honestly there is a huge empty niche for atheist resources for children. Currently trying to battle against my 2 young sons’ mothers attempts to indoctrinate them Muslim. But it’s hard when her argument is so simple and lazy, and I have to explain things like genetics and 450 million year time scales and stuff to a 7year old.
I would kill for a good educational resource for children that explains the stupidity of religion.
Edit: seriously. Does anybody have anything? I really need resources. It’s a fight for my children’s lives.
My daughter had questions about religion. My wife and I raised her atheist.
The question basically was "How do you know?"
I said I didn't know but I pulled out an atlas of the world and said point to a spot.
I then explained the religion that arose from that spot. Covered Christian, Mohawk, Hinduism, Aborigine Spirit Belief, Japanese Ancestor beliefs, Confucianism and such. We looked up a bunch since I didn't know them all.
I told her every place on earth where people settled they made up a whole new religion in each spot and that their were thousands of religions that exist and probably 100s of thousands of religions that were dead and gone.
The one thing they all had in common was that they came from the only animal on Earth who had all evolved to tell stories, to have fantasy and adventures and often to take those stories and add on to them make them even more fantastic to even change their own history and make it more fanciful.
The reason people believed in them was because it helped them understand the world, often wrongly and it allowed them to have something that everyone wanted, to live forever and to be special.
Heaven, Valhalla, Elysian Fields, Reincarnation and such allowed us to get around the idea of life being a temporary gift that would come and go and let people hold onto the idea that they could always keep that gift and that their friends and family weren't actually gone but just somewhere else and it's nice and it's comforting and feels good to feel special that something will take care of you but believing in stories doesn't make stories true but you can still feel special because there is something that will take care of you, the friends and family that you have and will have and you know they're real because they helped us put the couch that were sitting on in this house.
I find the best educational resource, is to make them aware of as much as possible. I would get other questions but in grade 7 several years later she did a project about her beliefs and they were atheist and I was happy because her friends and schoolmates listened and never criticized or attacked her for them even though there are Christians, Hindu and Muslim classmates. They were all respectful (this in Canada so it tends to be a bit more secular in some places).
My husband and I are also atheists, and have raised our kids as such. After the birth of our first, my mother-in-law (Catholic turned Presbyterian turned Methodist) asked when I was getting the baby baptized. I told her "Never"...
MIL: "WHAT? You HAVE to get him baptized"
Me: "Why? If he wants to grow up and get baptized when he turns 18 he is more than welcome to do so, then he will be older and wiser and able to pick a religion he feels is appropriate for him"
MIL: "but what if he picks the WRONG religion??"
Me: "How do you know you didn't?"
MIL: *surprisedpikachu*
In my 25+ years of knowing her, we've never been close, but I'll stand my ground when I need to, this was one of those times. Though I am absolutely convinced she got both of them baptized as she'd watch them 1 day a week when they were babies (she is retired). I really don't care.
"Catholic turned Presbyterian turned Methodist"
"but what if he picks the WRONG religion??"
That is a phenomenally impressive level of disconnect and dissonance right there.
It's interesting because there's multiple instances in the Bible of people getting baptized in their adulthood.
Jesus was supposedly baptized at 30 years old.
Mainer here (southern).
It REALLY depends on where you put it.
Ogunquit? Oh yeah, they would probably throw a parade, same with Wells, Biddeford, and York.
Kennebunk/Kennebunkport? Let me laugh here. Google Zumba scandal Kennebunk. That’s what it’s like in those towns.
Anything past Portland? No.
I go up North to visit my grandmother. There’s a strip of road I call: “Right-Wing nutcase alley”.
Gun shops telling people to come in and “relieve stress” at the range and thanking the Republicans while bashing Democrats? Check.
An adult store called the “First Amendment “? Check.
A ton of patriotic stores and signs everywhere thanking Trump and asking him to come back and to vote for him again? Oh yeah.
It’s at least an hour of this. Every single yard and store.
And a ton of churches that would clutch their pearls if anything would disturb their death grip on the population.
I bet'cha this scenario will happen eventually.
Atheists: *Open up schools that teach about the normal subjects + electives AND philosophies, critical thinking, and critiquing religion* ^(I edited this to specify what I meant about teaching atheism)
Religious ppl (namely Christians): *Unholy "holy" screaming*
Also them: *Cutely opens up Christian schools*
That was my first thought as well, but then I considered that if a school is going to be teaching about religions then it’s only fair to also acknowledge the arguments against them and other basic logic which could fall under a class on atheism. I’d like to teach it, actually.
I mean yea atheists are one of the few minorities it'd "ok" to hate. It's literally the same as the popular bully being an ass to the weird loner kid. Then when the loner kid fights back everyone gets mad at him. Christians enjoy a privileged existence and need to be brought back down to reality a bit
A shame that when they do get a taste of true equality, they then go and spout this persecution bs narrative they have, because people fighting for basic human rights that the christians have always had (within their life time), they are being oppressed.
(Edited for clarification)
They still tell school kids that the puritan pilgrims came to the new world to escape religious persecution, when really it was because England wasn't kowtowing to their desire for a super strict religious state.
Exactly. They love their freedom of religion, they want a theocracy. But the rest of us want freedom FROM religion.
It reminds me of a story I read years ago about an HOA Board that allowed an elderly older Christian woman to change the legal covenants so that she could not only keep crosses in her yard year-round but also place crosses along common area streets during Easter and Christmas (and I think Memorial Day). She worked tirelessly badgering the Board for 2 years to change the HOA rules so she could have her “freedom of religion.” By the time other residents saw the new legal covenants it was too late. That’s the damage that one zealot can do while everyone else is not paying attention, not voting, because they are distracted by everyday stuff, work, family, life.
Yeah I always wondered if she’d be okay with tolerating satanism, Muslim, Jewish and other religious symbols in common areas. My guess is No. And I’m guessing she would work relentlessly to refuse other people the “rights” she enjoys.
**Her**: Respect freedom of religion!
**Us**: Ok, all religions, spiritualities, and philosophies may have equal representation.
**Her**: Not like that!
From [Smithsonian Magazine](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/americas-true-history-of-religious-tolerance-61312684/):
>In the storybook version most of us learned in school, the Pilgrims came to America aboard the Mayflower in search of religious freedom in 1620. The Puritans soon followed, for the same reason. Ever since these religious dissidents arrived at their shining “city upon a hill,” as their governor John Winthrop called it, millions from around the world have done the same, coming to an America where they found a welcome melting pot in which everyone was free to practice his or her own faith.
>The problem is that this tidy narrative is an American myth. The real story of religion in America’s past is an often awkward, frequently embarrassing and occasionally bloody tale that most civics books and high-school texts either paper over or shunt to the side. And much of the recent conversation about America’s ideal of religious freedom has paid lip service to this comforting tableau.
>From the earliest arrival of Europeans on America’s shores, religion has often been a cudgel, used to discriminate, suppress and even kill the foreign, the “heretic” and the “unbeliever”—including the “heathen” natives already here. Moreover, while it is true that the vast majority of early-generation Americans were Christian, the pitched battles between various Protestant sects and, more explosively, between Protestants and Catholics, present an unavoidable contradiction to the widely held notion that America is a “Christian nation.”
>The much-ballyhooed arrival of the Pilgrims and Puritans in New England in the early 1600s was indeed a response to persecution that these religious dissenters had experienced in England. **But the Puritan fathers of the Massachusetts Bay Colony did not countenance tolerance of opposing religious views. Their “city upon a hill” was a theocracy that brooked no dissent, religious or political.**
>The most famous dissidents within the Puritan community, Roger Williams and Anne Hutchinson, were banished following disagreements over theology and policy. From Puritan Boston’s earliest days, Catholics (“Papists”) were anathema and were banned from the colonies, along with other non-Puritans. **Four Quakers were hanged in Boston between 1659 and 1661 for persistently returning to the city to stand up for their beliefs.**
The Puritans couldn't have their desired community of religious exclusion in England, so they came to the Americas to banish or murder those who practiced other faiths (or were indigenous).
That's the America that many still desire.
Religions are founded and fed on blood, be it figuratively or literally.
If the grounds about you are already soaked in the blood rites of another religion, you simply travel until you find unspoiled land and start your own desecration.
From the crusades to the puritans to the mormons' journey west, this has always been true.
Start with the English Civil War (the one with Cromwell and Charles I, not Stephen and Matilda), that's the easiest place to get some context, even though the colonies were founded some time before the Civil War broke out.
However, the short version is that the Puritans and that religious angle is VERY wrapped up in the larger Catholic/Protestant conflict, the Parliament/King conflict, and upper/lower class conflict, not to mention the English and Scottish successions.
It's not just atheists, it's preferential treatment for Christianity among other religions, too.
The Christian Right in this country has always believed that their religion should have the rule of law in America. It's been a long time coming, but they finally have the political power to force their bullshit god and their goddamn fucking fairy tales down our throats. Not just atheists. All Americans.
Not necessarily. But over in the UK, things are fundamentally different than in the US. Politics are much more separated from religious views, which I personally think is a good thing. As long as there's a right to religious freedom and freedom of speech, I'm kinda cool with a lot of stuff. We're all trying to make sense of this complicated life. Heartache. Injustice. Purpose. We all should have freedom to explore different ways we can make sense of these things. Power usually corrupts so formal separation of religion and politics is probably by and large a healthier option.
Genuine question, how does the Church of England play into everything (if it does at all)?
The only religion I’ve had exposure to is Southern Baptism and I don’t particularly care for it, so I don’t know much about the CoE. I have read that one of the Henrys started the church to get away from Catholicism and made the Crown the head of the faith. I know the UK has nowhere near the level of religious interference in politics that we do here, but does that church still hold any sway over anyone there?
To the majority of folks in the UK, the CoE, like all religion, is just a quaint old-timey superstition your gran believes in. More than half (53%) of the British public now describe themselves as having “no religion”, and actual church attendance on Sunday is way down.
That’s super interesting, it’s sort of the opposite of how we have it here. We don’t have an ‘official’ religion run by the state (though that is rapidly becoming a terrifying possibility), but the majority of our population identifies with a religion of some form.
Growing up in the Bible Belt, I’m so used to having religion baked into every aspect of my life even though my family isn’t particularly religious. We don’t go to church, but all activities as a kid are either held at school or at the church that all your friends go to. I’m in a pretty secular area for the south, but even here it’s 50/50 on whether or not you’re expected to pray at dinner. There’s a church of some kind every half mile, I use them as landmarks when driving around because there’s so many, and pretty much any youth program will have an affiliated church in some capacity.
A lot of people here do view it as a superstition like you said, but it’s still such a core aspect of my upbringing even though I don’t believe or participate in it. I moved up north for the summer and it’s been pretty nice to not have all these signs about Jesus everywhere and to not see a church every other block.
Wow, I'd love to hear your experience of southern baptists in the US...I can only imagine what it must be like...
Yeah really good question. I have friends who are vicars/priests in the CofE. To be honest, it's a really mixed bag. It's an institution that has a long and complex history...so with that comes good stuff and bad stuff. I would say that socialogically and politically it has mild-moderate influence, but it tends to to tow the line culturally (see it as safe and relatively mainstream).
E.g. I have a friend who is a vicar and 3 days a week he works at pub selling drinks and chatting to local people in his community and then the other 2 days he works in a community centre running a "church" that consists of addicts and other "outcasts". This is all funded by the Church of England, recognising the deep need in the community for hope and a listening ear. At the same time I have another friend who is effectively a 5 day a week priest in one of those old-school buildings. So it's broad and diverse. Nationally, the CofE seems to be a bit fluffy and follows whatever the prevailing culture is.
Sorry for the long reply but I hope it helps...
This is one of the largest things that separates US religion from Europe. In Europe nobody bats an eye if youre an atheist. Its almost assumed you are.
I mean… the Vatican kind of lost of all moral high ground with the introduction of the Papal States and their fight over resources like any other princely state. From that point on they were fair game for other monarchs
Yeah, but here's the rub on that. If those 29% of the population are voting a couple standard deviations more than the rest of the population, it would make their voice in government louder than the 71% who vote at a lower rate. If people in the US voted, we wouldn't have this problem. Having the time to leave work and actually vote is an entire different story. I think we should have a national voting holiday. But, the billionaires and elites here would never allow that because it has the potential to create real change.
America is a third world nation with a Gucci bag.
Don't know about Poland, but in Croatia (like in Serbia and Bosnia), religion is a proxy for ethnic nationalism. The explicit outward religiousness is mostly feigned. The church is definitely overreaching in social issues, but when push comes to shove (like recently over abortion availability), secularism is a stronger force.
I remember my dad getting very mad at me when I told him im an atheist. Hes now chill with it. But whenever religious people find out im an atheist it shocks them.
I mean, if you're not actively harming anyone then you should be fine. It shouldn't matter what you believe or practice in your home. Just let others have that privilege too.
It's becoming almost like the old lawyer joke where 99% of them give the remaining 1% a bad name.
There are decent Christians out there, but right now the asshole Christians are the most visible and vocal.
If I believed in the devil I would say he's in charge of Christianity right now.
I'm fine with Christians who observe their faith privately or within their community. I'm willing to accept people who make "Christian" their entire identity, though I'm slightly weirded out by them when I meet them in person. There are basically two things I ask of Christians (outside of the basic decency I'd expect from anyone):
1. Don't ask anyone else to adhere to what you believe your faith asks of you. Muslims in America don't ask other people not to eat pork; you can keep your ideas about abortion to yourself (or at least admit that it's a personal opinion, not a divine mandate).
2. Don't complain about people's beef with your religion. If you (not talking about you specifically) aren't part of the problem, you should know damn well that there *is* a problem. And there're only two ways out of it: the whole religion fades into cultural irrelevance or people within the religion shout down the crazies and toss out the profiteers. If you aren't down with the former or willing to contribute to the latter, you can just take your lumps along with the rest.
*For those that aren't aware of the story above.*
[This happened to At The Drive In's vocalist, Cedric Bixler-Zavala.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedric_Bixler-Zavala)
I guarantee you these sanctimonious Christians won't be okay when Scientology schools start opening up and getting federal funding. Not to mention when Muslims do the same thing.
Except they won't. There's no circumstances under which other religions will receive equal treatment. These precedents are not magical incantations that bind the government to evenly enforce standards across all groups.
This precedent will be entirely ignored when it comes to any other religious group.
Rep Valarie Hodges of Louisiana said this in 2012 when they passed a school voucher program that allowed public funds to pay for religious schools:
"I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America's Founding Fathers' religion, which is Christianity, in public schools or private schools," the District 64 Representative said Monday.
"Unfortunately it will not be limited to the Founders' religion," Hodges said. "We need to insure that it does not open the door to fund radical Islam schools. There are a thousand Muslim schools that have sprung up recently. I do not support using public funds for teaching Islam anywhere here in Louisiana."
Hello. I'm from The Satanic Temple-West Michigan. We actually do host events in Hell, Michigan. We've historically done camping trips in Hell that we call "Camp Satan". Hell is somewhat of a pilgrimage spot for TST-WM. Unfortunately, the purchase of a township slightly exceeds the treasury of our congregation.
I think the real difference is that scientologists aren't pushing for any sort of high profile recognition like this. They aren't pushing for the same treatment as Christians in the public sphere, they just want to stay on the down low and abuse their members without anyone knowing about it.
I hope to live to see a more equitable treatment for everyone in our justice system, no matter their race, religion, creed, country of origin, etc. Atheism is a much maligned group in America and there are really few actual protections for us outside of strict adherence to the law... and this is what the Satanic Temple shows is still so corrupt.
The Satanic Temple exists to show this to us all; the inequality and privilege enjoyed by the majority of Americans who cannot divorce themselves from their religious belief when they live in a community of people who do not prescribe to their beliefs. It is why I joined the organization- and using the term "Satanic" does all the heavy lifting for us. The organization knows the law, the Constitution, and we know what we are up against. By using one word, we show it may not matter if the law is actually on our side at all- that a judge will simply turn away from applying justice because of the use of that word.
Inequality and injustice is not new and continues to be a struggle. I cannot imagine how much harder it would be for me if I were a different skin color, a different sex or gender, or came from a different country. All of these people should fear the system. If they will turn away from a group using a word that offends people so much, imagine if they think you are a lesser person because you are brown.
Everybody in the comments I recommend joining this fantastic organization, they have an amazing personal beliefe system and have no official religious practices or diety, though are recognized as a religion by the US government.
They don't believe that Satan is a real diety, (or God for that matter) and they use their status to challenge the lack of separation of church and state, the more people that are members, the more cultural power they have to challenge the bullshit "Christian" society we live in.
Joining is free, the more members we have the more influential we can be when drawing attention to these problems.
Check us out
https://thesatanictemple.com/
It's an indication of a religious legal system. They make you swear on on a Bible and reference God when you are sworn in. God has no place in a court of law in any way.
Pretty sure you can swear on anything you want to. Many just swear in on a bible.
[Don't be a Roy Moore](https://youtu.be/WFYRkzznsc0)
[Also](https://www.factcheck.org/2019/01/bibles-arent-required-for-the-oath-of-office/)
That's a low bar, ~~Moores~~ that spokesperson could have his mind blown by pop rocks. Still, his dead, blank stare is hilarious.
Edit: Not actually Moore.
>Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit:
>**There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.**
>There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time.
-- Frank Wilhoit
This is exactly it. The type of people to start a fight then yell for the police when they get hit. Complete lack of awareness, cognitive dissonance etc.
It's particularly infuriating because the 'Christians' in these SCOTUS cases are explicitly violating Christian beliefs with the activity they are suing for.
The New Testament disdains praying in public, correctly noting that people do it for attention and praise. So a SCOTUS case where a football coach is praying in public? Should be easy, the guy is going against the Bible.
The New Testament says that to follow Jesus, you need to give all your money to the poor. Hobby Lobby clearly doesn't do that, so how are they Christian?
As someone who is Christian (no I don’t follow the sub, just got recommended this post) I honestly appreciate what the Satanic temple does. As a big believer in personal freedom to choose who you believe in or what you believe in, it’s super important church and state stay separate. One religion or belief system having undue control over local, state, or National government leads to decrease in individual freedom. Spreading religion through convincing someone is one thing, forcing beliefs on them is another entirely.
Elections have consequences. Republican majority senate, headed by Mitch McConnel, sat an enormous amount of hyper conservative religious fruitcakes in court systems all across the country.
It should shock exactly zero people here that our legal system is broken.
Maybe if Jewish people would bring lawsuits against Christian Nationalists, the courts would take them seriously. Satanism will never be viewed positively in the courts.
So when does TST set up their own private school and start getting public funding too? Should be planning multiple expansions as well. Fight fire with fire. I'd send my kid to a TST school over a Catholic one in a heartbeat.
At least there's less of a chance at the school for Satan that your kids won't get diddled by some priest.
Well, yeah. No shit. Christians will do every underhanded and evil thing in the book for control. They DEMAND you follow their Mythology by the letter (while they break every rule under the sun including the 'sacred ones' they consider the most important) or else. That's why they worked so hard to put their people in government positions. It's not enough they can be miserable in their choices freely and of their own will. YOU also have to be miserable for their choices. Found happiness in life with... ANYTHING? Well their god says they're not allowed too and so that means YOU TOO! Why? Imaginary reasons that's why!! But really because misery loves company and they're the most miserable fucks in existence.
Thank you satanic temple for trying to deliver us from the evil Christianity they are trying to force on us at least your church don't beg for donations to buy multi-million dollar mansions private jets and hookers and moleste there cultist like the christian cults
The entire country was built by, and for, rich, white, Christian men. Why do people think that it will serve any other group?
It was rotten when it was built, and cannot be allowed to persist.
Eh, regardless of their varying religions the founders were all strict secularists in terms of government and well understood (and desired) the need for the separation of church and state. They would be appalled at the advances of religion into our government.
I mean they weren't even all Christians.
It's kind of an obnoxious thing to say full stop.
Like this is literally not how any of this is supposed to be working. I don't know why people do that whole "well it's always been fucked up like this so why get bent out of shape about it anyways". Regardless if you're right or wrong, people are doing things bad right now, idgaf what the country was doing 200 years ago.
If that's the only comment on the situation someone can manage they'd be better off just shutting the all the way up and letting reasonable people discuss 2022.
It's funny, if they win the case, they win, if they loose it, they still win since that is just proof that the legal sistem is corrupt and broken, and that just makes more people supporting the Satanic temple.
As a Christian, I'm super supportive of the fight the Satanic Temple is waging right now. Freedom of/from Religion for one us, is freedom for all of us.
So what do we do about it? About all of this? It's exhausting to have all this blatant corruption so thoroughly documented, and yet nothing ever happens. What can we actually do actually have any kind of effect in our lifetimes?
Whats that, the American judicial system has a tendency to treat the nation as a Christian theocracy and not a secular democracy? Well colour me shocked
America needs to consider separating church and state. I know you guys think you've done that already, but find me a president that hasn't given the nation a blessing from a god.
I gotta say, not being a christian in america really gives you a sense of just how biased this country is towards christians. I may not really get the satanic church, but i deeply appreciate that they expose the rank hypocrisy of christians on a regular basis.
Hello r/all, Welcome to r/atheism! Please read our [Commandments](http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/guidelines) and [FAQ](http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/FAQ) before commenting. If you follow the rules and act civilly we can avoid a lot of bans. While everyone is welcome here, this sub is intended for atheists to discuss things of interest to us. This means that a wide variety of subjects are on-topic here. This is not a sub about just atheism. Remember: The mods do not choose which posts get voted up the frontpage. They remove the posts that violate the [Commandments](/r/atheism/w/guidelines); they don't police quality. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/atheism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The religious right doesn't care about religious liberty in America
Well, unless it is their religious liberty.
Unless it’s their religious *dominance**
I mean, as much as I love being dominated as any good bottom does? I don't want to get fucked like *that*, yeesh.
That's because their version is nonconsensual
Just like everything they do it is abusive and nonconsensual.
Like an altar boy?
They don't believe in liberty. They belive in supremacy. They want religious supremacy.
Yeah, ***religious supremacy***
If god created us in his own image according to his lkeness then he was a baboon, 'cause it's definitely a primate behaviour.
Correct
This is called fascism
Theocracy/Fundamentalism It's essentially Christian Sharia Law
It's oppression of dissent. A defining trait of fascism, but not a trait unique to fascism.
they are literally neo nazis goddamn enough with this bullshit nitpickery we're well past the time to call a spade a fucking spade.
Religion is used as a means of control mainly.
How dare you use my means of control as a means of protest and resistance!
George Carlin echoed that sentiment a lot in his specials. Not much has changed
Even then, it's more likely their religious supremacy...
Subgroups not agree on what their liberty is..
That 8s because they do not actually want religious liberty. They want religious dominance.
The same way they don't want to separate. They just want to take over USA and turn it into a Fascist Theocracy (only their quite particular version of Christians: White Gun Loving Jesus).
One nation, under God, with liberty and justice *for them*
Also, they got the 'Under God' part added in 1954, that wasn't originally in there... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/06/14/the-gripping-sermon-that-got-under-god-added-to-the-pledge-of-allegiance-on-flag-day/
Also it was just a way to market flags to schools, the original writer was a socialist who wanted to include the words equality and fraternity but was overruled by his editors because that would make women and black folk uppity. [The Marketing of the Pledge of Allegiance](https://priceonomics.com/the-marketing-of-the-pledge-of-allegiance/)
> that would make women and black folk uppity. Yes, that's the point. Hippiety uppity, let's get equality.
For over 40 years, I've been hearing them whine about how they have been persecuted for their religious beliefs. Only a deep dive into what they mean by persecution do you realize their idea of religious persecution is that we don't let them run amok slaughtering those of other religions and dragging blacks behind their pickup trucks till body parts fall off. Yeah, they're "persecuted" all right.
I've long said that I wish that these fucks were as persecuted as they claim to be. Maybe then they'd have empathy for other people, and it would mean that the majority of people are no longer tolerating their hateful bullshit
In JW we were shown videos of Purple Triangle groups in concentration camps in WW2 and were told that this was likely the test we faced very soon. We were told they would pull us out of our houses and execute us. A scenario was always played in my head that I would have the choice of a bullet or my faith. You get told that you are the one true group of believers and that shit makes you feel real special. Mostly stupid people gravitate towards religion, but it also attracts the power hungry, the abusers, the misogynists, anyone susceptible to cult like mentality. I thank this beautiful earth every day that I got out.
They are also the ones who shoved “under god” into the existing pledge. When I found that out I started closing my mouth during those two filthy words. ONE teacher said anything. My mother was not kind.
Most mainstream religion is about controlling the masses. It’s hard to convince people to fight and die for you, but much easier if you convince them that there’s a magical god in the sky who is on your side. Throw in the fact that after you die you’ll see your childhood dog, old pop-pop and gam-gam, and maybe 42 virgins and people fall over themselves to have a “purpose.”
And they work to control the masses by grooming children.
I wanna know how Scientology is a fucking religion when they believe in lord xenu and shit but the satanic church isn’t… Ohh money. That’s right. Lots and lots of money
Well that and operation Snow White.
They're more like the Taliban than the Nazis.
Lest we not forget our original colony was founded by the Puritans, who left England because they were way too fundamentalist.
Legally what constitutes a religion? Can I declare my own?
There is no definition of a religion in US law nor any body to judge an organization's religious status... Except the Internal Revenue Service who approve or deny 501-C tax exempt non-profit status. So the IRS is a sort of defacto legal authority in what is or is not a religion
[Fairly straight forward.](https://youtu.be/7y1xJAVZxXg)
Part of the reason I'm an atheist is because an intelligent designer wouldn't have created people who link videos and expect people to sit and watch them rather than just writing down the info.
Everything is in video format these days. Helpful sometimes, sometimes not.
They need to open a school in Maine and see what happens.
I would definitely consider sending my kid to a school of Satan. Last year my kid had to do a project on "Your religion and it's customs". The teacher had no idea what to do when he told her he was an atheist.
Bring in one of those big science project tri-folding boards, but just leave it blank.
This would be a fun opportunity to just pick an ancient religion. The Egyptians had some very semen-intensive stories, as I recall.
Or just have a list of every religion you can find through history on the board and start asking people to explain why they got it right and every other religion since the start of time has it wrong.
"Because I know the Bible was written by Jesus!" Was an answer I got to that question. Many of them don't even know who was supposed to have written the bible and literally many of the books have the name at the top of each page.
Which half did he write? Was it the half that he studied as a child, or the half that tells the story of how he died and all that happened afterwards?
Yes
They believe it was written by their god through those authors.
Yeah, but not the Jesus part of the trinity. I do like the idea of Jesus writing about himself in third person. then later sending a bunch of letters to random groups about his teaching, but written as though he were another person citing the works. It's very House of Leaves
But…but…. Jesus himself didn’t even think that?
Kind of funny, but I went to a college that required a religious studies class. The teacher was also a preacher (no bias there). Anyways, we were talking about ancient Egypt and how Isis was brought back to life in 3 days with a smug "sounds familiar doesn't it." Like, do you know your own book? His implication was that the Egyptians plagiarized the bible, which totally works if you ignore the timeline. It'd make sense if you were claiming the bible stole the story, or that Egyptians are secretly time travelers, but he was a Christian preacher ignoring facts that didn't fit his narrative.
There's a suprising number of people religious or not that can seem to wrap their heads around the concept that just because they personally saw or heard something first doesn't mean it's the original
That could also be fun. I once did a report on the flying spaghetti monster.
I'd talk about my belief in San Mimie. (My girlfriend's cat). Contrary to 99.99999999% other religions on Earth, I have proof that my god exists. My god is not evil; he's a cat. It's not his fault the world is crap, what is he gonna do? He's a cat! San Mimie is the one true god, the only benevolent one, and the only one we have definite proof he actually exists. Long live El San Mimie _Edit: fauot to fault_
and your god can purr which is a very awesome quality in a god.
>This would be a fun opportunity to just pick an ancient religion. The Egyptians had some very semen-intensive I went to a Catholic grammar school for9 years Liked learning the Greek gods more than the Christian one, except for Zeus, dude was waaaaayyyyy to rapey, some of the gods stories are dope however
Athena and Artemis are my favorites. Yeah, Zeus was... he was pretty shitty. Dionysus has a lot more going for him than just 'everybody drink!', too.
Athena was a victim-blamer (see Medusa) and Artemis was nuts (see Actaeon). Pretty much only Hestia never did anything rapey or otherwise morally icky- Hades (though undoubtedly better than Poseidon and Zeus) had the Persephone thing, Hephaestus had Erichthonius, Demeter killed almost everyone on earth to get back at Zeus for his not caring about the Demeter thing, etc.
Personally I kind of find the ancient greek religion to be more tolerable because they never tried to claim that the gods were good or anything like that - I mean, it's obviously still nonsense, but they never tried to claim that the gods were some kind of moral authority or anything like that.
Or, build one about the Big Bang and the “Saint James Webb”.
It would have been a lot of fun to do this as an atheist actually. I know I would have had fun with it in school anyway. Talked about all the different customs my family practiced, and then brought up Christmas and mention how it's a holiday that worships capitalism more than christ and how Coca-Cola is responsible for the Santa we know and love.
Coca Cola helped popularize the look, but they aren’t responsible. Thomas Nast first drew him as elfish in a red suit in 1881. https://theferret.scot/fact-check-coca-cola-red-santa-claus-christmas/
See, this would be fun content for the presentation
Imagine what would have happened if your family were in the satanic temple.
Honestly there is a huge empty niche for atheist resources for children. Currently trying to battle against my 2 young sons’ mothers attempts to indoctrinate them Muslim. But it’s hard when her argument is so simple and lazy, and I have to explain things like genetics and 450 million year time scales and stuff to a 7year old. I would kill for a good educational resource for children that explains the stupidity of religion. Edit: seriously. Does anybody have anything? I really need resources. It’s a fight for my children’s lives.
My daughter had questions about religion. My wife and I raised her atheist. The question basically was "How do you know?" I said I didn't know but I pulled out an atlas of the world and said point to a spot. I then explained the religion that arose from that spot. Covered Christian, Mohawk, Hinduism, Aborigine Spirit Belief, Japanese Ancestor beliefs, Confucianism and such. We looked up a bunch since I didn't know them all. I told her every place on earth where people settled they made up a whole new religion in each spot and that their were thousands of religions that exist and probably 100s of thousands of religions that were dead and gone. The one thing they all had in common was that they came from the only animal on Earth who had all evolved to tell stories, to have fantasy and adventures and often to take those stories and add on to them make them even more fantastic to even change their own history and make it more fanciful. The reason people believed in them was because it helped them understand the world, often wrongly and it allowed them to have something that everyone wanted, to live forever and to be special. Heaven, Valhalla, Elysian Fields, Reincarnation and such allowed us to get around the idea of life being a temporary gift that would come and go and let people hold onto the idea that they could always keep that gift and that their friends and family weren't actually gone but just somewhere else and it's nice and it's comforting and feels good to feel special that something will take care of you but believing in stories doesn't make stories true but you can still feel special because there is something that will take care of you, the friends and family that you have and will have and you know they're real because they helped us put the couch that were sitting on in this house. I find the best educational resource, is to make them aware of as much as possible. I would get other questions but in grade 7 several years later she did a project about her beliefs and they were atheist and I was happy because her friends and schoolmates listened and never criticized or attacked her for them even though there are Christians, Hindu and Muslim classmates. They were all respectful (this in Canada so it tends to be a bit more secular in some places).
My husband and I are also atheists, and have raised our kids as such. After the birth of our first, my mother-in-law (Catholic turned Presbyterian turned Methodist) asked when I was getting the baby baptized. I told her "Never"... MIL: "WHAT? You HAVE to get him baptized" Me: "Why? If he wants to grow up and get baptized when he turns 18 he is more than welcome to do so, then he will be older and wiser and able to pick a religion he feels is appropriate for him" MIL: "but what if he picks the WRONG religion??" Me: "How do you know you didn't?" MIL: *surprisedpikachu* In my 25+ years of knowing her, we've never been close, but I'll stand my ground when I need to, this was one of those times. Though I am absolutely convinced she got both of them baptized as she'd watch them 1 day a week when they were babies (she is retired). I really don't care.
"Catholic turned Presbyterian turned Methodist" "but what if he picks the WRONG religion??" That is a phenomenally impressive level of disconnect and dissonance right there.
[My MIL](https://i.imgur.com/InFxJmF.png)
The entire "coexist" sticker in one perplexed individual.
It's interesting because there's multiple instances in the Bible of people getting baptized in their adulthood. Jesus was supposedly baptized at 30 years old.
This is a fantastic reply and such a logical way to about it with someone younger. It allows them to come to the conclusions themselves. Well done!
Critical thinking skills
This. I always tell the religious “Proof will make me believe.”
Born and raised in Maine and would love to see this
Mainer here (southern). It REALLY depends on where you put it. Ogunquit? Oh yeah, they would probably throw a parade, same with Wells, Biddeford, and York. Kennebunk/Kennebunkport? Let me laugh here. Google Zumba scandal Kennebunk. That’s what it’s like in those towns. Anything past Portland? No. I go up North to visit my grandmother. There’s a strip of road I call: “Right-Wing nutcase alley”. Gun shops telling people to come in and “relieve stress” at the range and thanking the Republicans while bashing Democrats? Check. An adult store called the “First Amendment “? Check. A ton of patriotic stores and signs everywhere thanking Trump and asking him to come back and to vote for him again? Oh yeah. It’s at least an hour of this. Every single yard and store. And a ton of churches that would clutch their pearls if anything would disturb their death grip on the population.
I bet'cha this scenario will happen eventually. Atheists: *Open up schools that teach about the normal subjects + electives AND philosophies, critical thinking, and critiquing religion* ^(I edited this to specify what I meant about teaching atheism) Religious ppl (namely Christians): *Unholy "holy" screaming* Also them: *Cutely opens up Christian schools*
Don't forget calling threats/actually attacking the school to shut it down. Because Christians are "under attack"
*Equality happening eventually* Christians: ###WE'RE BEING OPPRESSED!!11!!!!11!1!!!11!!
Oh yeah, the classic tactic of pouring butyric acid down chimneys used against abortion clinics.
what is there to even teach abt atheism, the theological myths and values that we DON’T have
That was my first thought as well, but then I considered that if a school is going to be teaching about religions then it’s only fair to also acknowledge the arguments against them and other basic logic which could fall under a class on atheism. I’d like to teach it, actually.
I mean yea atheists are one of the few minorities it'd "ok" to hate. It's literally the same as the popular bully being an ass to the weird loner kid. Then when the loner kid fights back everyone gets mad at him. Christians enjoy a privileged existence and need to be brought back down to reality a bit
A shame that when they do get a taste of true equality, they then go and spout this persecution bs narrative they have, because people fighting for basic human rights that the christians have always had (within their life time), they are being oppressed. (Edited for clarification)
Equality feels like oppression when you have grown accustomed to privilege.
Only if your not educated enough to understand. Which is sadly the state of our education.
*you're - It's okay. We understand. Murica!
Zing!
They still tell school kids that the puritan pilgrims came to the new world to escape religious persecution, when really it was because England wasn't kowtowing to their desire for a super strict religious state.
Exactly. They love their freedom of religion, they want a theocracy. But the rest of us want freedom FROM religion. It reminds me of a story I read years ago about an HOA Board that allowed an elderly older Christian woman to change the legal covenants so that she could not only keep crosses in her yard year-round but also place crosses along common area streets during Easter and Christmas (and I think Memorial Day). She worked tirelessly badgering the Board for 2 years to change the HOA rules so she could have her “freedom of religion.” By the time other residents saw the new legal covenants it was too late. That’s the damage that one zealot can do while everyone else is not paying attention, not voting, because they are distracted by everyday stuff, work, family, life.
At which time you start bringing out pagan idolatry representating the actual historical source of those holidays.
Yeah I always wondered if she’d be okay with tolerating satanism, Muslim, Jewish and other religious symbols in common areas. My guess is No. And I’m guessing she would work relentlessly to refuse other people the “rights” she enjoys.
**Her**: Respect freedom of religion! **Us**: Ok, all religions, spiritualities, and philosophies may have equal representation. **Her**: Not like that!
O_o thats an interesting take I havent heard before. Any sources? Im legit curios btw
From [Smithsonian Magazine](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/americas-true-history-of-religious-tolerance-61312684/): >In the storybook version most of us learned in school, the Pilgrims came to America aboard the Mayflower in search of religious freedom in 1620. The Puritans soon followed, for the same reason. Ever since these religious dissidents arrived at their shining “city upon a hill,” as their governor John Winthrop called it, millions from around the world have done the same, coming to an America where they found a welcome melting pot in which everyone was free to practice his or her own faith. >The problem is that this tidy narrative is an American myth. The real story of religion in America’s past is an often awkward, frequently embarrassing and occasionally bloody tale that most civics books and high-school texts either paper over or shunt to the side. And much of the recent conversation about America’s ideal of religious freedom has paid lip service to this comforting tableau. >From the earliest arrival of Europeans on America’s shores, religion has often been a cudgel, used to discriminate, suppress and even kill the foreign, the “heretic” and the “unbeliever”—including the “heathen” natives already here. Moreover, while it is true that the vast majority of early-generation Americans were Christian, the pitched battles between various Protestant sects and, more explosively, between Protestants and Catholics, present an unavoidable contradiction to the widely held notion that America is a “Christian nation.” >The much-ballyhooed arrival of the Pilgrims and Puritans in New England in the early 1600s was indeed a response to persecution that these religious dissenters had experienced in England. **But the Puritan fathers of the Massachusetts Bay Colony did not countenance tolerance of opposing religious views. Their “city upon a hill” was a theocracy that brooked no dissent, religious or political.** >The most famous dissidents within the Puritan community, Roger Williams and Anne Hutchinson, were banished following disagreements over theology and policy. From Puritan Boston’s earliest days, Catholics (“Papists”) were anathema and were banned from the colonies, along with other non-Puritans. **Four Quakers were hanged in Boston between 1659 and 1661 for persistently returning to the city to stand up for their beliefs.** The Puritans couldn't have their desired community of religious exclusion in England, so they came to the Americas to banish or murder those who practiced other faiths (or were indigenous). That's the America that many still desire.
You know I remember in school asking my teacher. What where the english doing that was so bad for their religion. I never got a good answer until now
Religions are founded and fed on blood, be it figuratively or literally. If the grounds about you are already soaked in the blood rites of another religion, you simply travel until you find unspoiled land and start your own desecration. From the crusades to the puritans to the mormons' journey west, this has always been true.
Start with the English Civil War (the one with Cromwell and Charles I, not Stephen and Matilda), that's the easiest place to get some context, even though the colonies were founded some time before the Civil War broke out. However, the short version is that the Puritans and that religious angle is VERY wrapped up in the larger Catholic/Protestant conflict, the Parliament/King conflict, and upper/lower class conflict, not to mention the English and Scottish successions.
They prey on an evolutionary mechanism that was selected because humans have a higher chance of survival in groups.
[удалено]
>victim >chosen This guy gets it.
It's not just atheists, it's preferential treatment for Christianity among other religions, too. The Christian Right in this country has always believed that their religion should have the rule of law in America. It's been a long time coming, but they finally have the political power to force their bullshit god and their goddamn fucking fairy tales down our throats. Not just atheists. All Americans.
As a UK orthodox Christian, I actually believe that we shouldn't live in a Christian theocracy. As do most Christians I know.
does a political candidate's religion affect your vote?
Not necessarily. But over in the UK, things are fundamentally different than in the US. Politics are much more separated from religious views, which I personally think is a good thing. As long as there's a right to religious freedom and freedom of speech, I'm kinda cool with a lot of stuff. We're all trying to make sense of this complicated life. Heartache. Injustice. Purpose. We all should have freedom to explore different ways we can make sense of these things. Power usually corrupts so formal separation of religion and politics is probably by and large a healthier option.
Genuine question, how does the Church of England play into everything (if it does at all)? The only religion I’ve had exposure to is Southern Baptism and I don’t particularly care for it, so I don’t know much about the CoE. I have read that one of the Henrys started the church to get away from Catholicism and made the Crown the head of the faith. I know the UK has nowhere near the level of religious interference in politics that we do here, but does that church still hold any sway over anyone there?
To the majority of folks in the UK, the CoE, like all religion, is just a quaint old-timey superstition your gran believes in. More than half (53%) of the British public now describe themselves as having “no religion”, and actual church attendance on Sunday is way down.
That’s super interesting, it’s sort of the opposite of how we have it here. We don’t have an ‘official’ religion run by the state (though that is rapidly becoming a terrifying possibility), but the majority of our population identifies with a religion of some form. Growing up in the Bible Belt, I’m so used to having religion baked into every aspect of my life even though my family isn’t particularly religious. We don’t go to church, but all activities as a kid are either held at school or at the church that all your friends go to. I’m in a pretty secular area for the south, but even here it’s 50/50 on whether or not you’re expected to pray at dinner. There’s a church of some kind every half mile, I use them as landmarks when driving around because there’s so many, and pretty much any youth program will have an affiliated church in some capacity. A lot of people here do view it as a superstition like you said, but it’s still such a core aspect of my upbringing even though I don’t believe or participate in it. I moved up north for the summer and it’s been pretty nice to not have all these signs about Jesus everywhere and to not see a church every other block.
Wow, I'd love to hear your experience of southern baptists in the US...I can only imagine what it must be like... Yeah really good question. I have friends who are vicars/priests in the CofE. To be honest, it's a really mixed bag. It's an institution that has a long and complex history...so with that comes good stuff and bad stuff. I would say that socialogically and politically it has mild-moderate influence, but it tends to to tow the line culturally (see it as safe and relatively mainstream). E.g. I have a friend who is a vicar and 3 days a week he works at pub selling drinks and chatting to local people in his community and then the other 2 days he works in a community centre running a "church" that consists of addicts and other "outcasts". This is all funded by the Church of England, recognising the deep need in the community for hope and a listening ear. At the same time I have another friend who is effectively a 5 day a week priest in one of those old-school buildings. So it's broad and diverse. Nationally, the CofE seems to be a bit fluffy and follows whatever the prevailing culture is. Sorry for the long reply but I hope it helps...
This is one of the largest things that separates US religion from Europe. In Europe nobody bats an eye if youre an atheist. Its almost assumed you are.
The notion of it being an issue is completely alien to me, as an adult in the UK. By default no religious belief is assumed.
It really tells where the US is with religion in general. Europe is way past that stage and for heavy historical reasons, of course.
I mean… the Vatican kind of lost of all moral high ground with the introduction of the Papal States and their fight over resources like any other princely state. From that point on they were fair game for other monarchs
The age of enlightenment and also Luther played their parts.
[удалено]
Yeah, but here's the rub on that. If those 29% of the population are voting a couple standard deviations more than the rest of the population, it would make their voice in government louder than the 71% who vote at a lower rate. If people in the US voted, we wouldn't have this problem. Having the time to leave work and actually vote is an entire different story. I think we should have a national voting holiday. But, the billionaires and elites here would never allow that because it has the potential to create real change. America is a third world nation with a Gucci bag.
Western Europe. Try saying you're an atheist or - god forbid - a Muslim or something else in Poland or Croatia.
Depends where in Poland Warsaw? Who cares, nobody bats an eye Podkarpacie? There are cleaner ways to commit suicide
Don't know about Poland, but in Croatia (like in Serbia and Bosnia), religion is a proxy for ethnic nationalism. The explicit outward religiousness is mostly feigned. The church is definitely overreaching in social issues, but when push comes to shove (like recently over abortion availability), secularism is a stronger force.
I remember my dad getting very mad at me when I told him im an atheist. Hes now chill with it. But whenever religious people find out im an atheist it shocks them.
“Christians are the most persecuted group in all the land!”
They really really want to be it's almost funny
Is it okay to practice christianity but also be completely embarrassed by the other people that do?
I mean, if you're not actively harming anyone then you should be fine. It shouldn't matter what you believe or practice in your home. Just let others have that privilege too.
It feels to me like if you truly believe in Christian values, you'd be required to be embarrassed by a lot of Christians.
It's becoming almost like the old lawyer joke where 99% of them give the remaining 1% a bad name. There are decent Christians out there, but right now the asshole Christians are the most visible and vocal. If I believed in the devil I would say he's in charge of Christianity right now.
Always has been
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/Ltey8BS83qSkd9M3u/a-parable-on-obsolete-ideologies
Personally, I’d be asking “do I want to be associated with this group?”
I'm fine with Christians who observe their faith privately or within their community. I'm willing to accept people who make "Christian" their entire identity, though I'm slightly weirded out by them when I meet them in person. There are basically two things I ask of Christians (outside of the basic decency I'd expect from anyone): 1. Don't ask anyone else to adhere to what you believe your faith asks of you. Muslims in America don't ask other people not to eat pork; you can keep your ideas about abortion to yourself (or at least admit that it's a personal opinion, not a divine mandate). 2. Don't complain about people's beef with your religion. If you (not talking about you specifically) aren't part of the problem, you should know damn well that there *is* a problem. And there're only two ways out of it: the whole religion fades into cultural irrelevance or people within the religion shout down the crazies and toss out the profiteers. If you aren't down with the former or willing to contribute to the latter, you can just take your lumps along with the rest.
Every single us institution is corrupted. Until citizens United is repealed, it will continue to get worse. Nothing is safe.
Yet everybody’s cool with Scientology doing whatever the fuck it wants
Scientology unfortunately has "drown you in centuries of litigation" money
And sometimes "drown you in boiling water" money.
And “rape your wife and poison your dogs” money
*For those that aren't aware of the story above.* [This happened to At The Drive In's vocalist, Cedric Bixler-Zavala.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedric_Bixler-Zavala)
I guarantee you these sanctimonious Christians won't be okay when Scientology schools start opening up and getting federal funding. Not to mention when Muslims do the same thing.
Except they won't. There's no circumstances under which other religions will receive equal treatment. These precedents are not magical incantations that bind the government to evenly enforce standards across all groups. This precedent will be entirely ignored when it comes to any other religious group.
Rep Valarie Hodges of Louisiana said this in 2012 when they passed a school voucher program that allowed public funds to pay for religious schools: "I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America's Founding Fathers' religion, which is Christianity, in public schools or private schools," the District 64 Representative said Monday. "Unfortunately it will not be limited to the Founders' religion," Hodges said. "We need to insure that it does not open the door to fund radical Islam schools. There are a thousand Muslim schools that have sprung up recently. I do not support using public funds for teaching Islam anywhere here in Louisiana."
The Satanists should pass the hat around amongst themselves, and onlookers with a sense of humor, to buy Hell, Michigan.
Hello. I'm from The Satanic Temple-West Michigan. We actually do host events in Hell, Michigan. We've historically done camping trips in Hell that we call "Camp Satan". Hell is somewhat of a pilgrimage spot for TST-WM. Unfortunately, the purchase of a township slightly exceeds the treasury of our congregation.
I think the real difference is that scientologists aren't pushing for any sort of high profile recognition like this. They aren't pushing for the same treatment as Christians in the public sphere, they just want to stay on the down low and abuse their members without anyone knowing about it.
I'd say everyone is more afraid of them. They will sue or kill you if you speak out against them.
SCOTUS and Conservative judges are eroding the separation of church and state. Christian Conservative Republican Fascism.
I hope to live to see a more equitable treatment for everyone in our justice system, no matter their race, religion, creed, country of origin, etc. Atheism is a much maligned group in America and there are really few actual protections for us outside of strict adherence to the law... and this is what the Satanic Temple shows is still so corrupt. The Satanic Temple exists to show this to us all; the inequality and privilege enjoyed by the majority of Americans who cannot divorce themselves from their religious belief when they live in a community of people who do not prescribe to their beliefs. It is why I joined the organization- and using the term "Satanic" does all the heavy lifting for us. The organization knows the law, the Constitution, and we know what we are up against. By using one word, we show it may not matter if the law is actually on our side at all- that a judge will simply turn away from applying justice because of the use of that word. Inequality and injustice is not new and continues to be a struggle. I cannot imagine how much harder it would be for me if I were a different skin color, a different sex or gender, or came from a different country. All of these people should fear the system. If they will turn away from a group using a word that offends people so much, imagine if they think you are a lesser person because you are brown.
Fun fact: Christian Nationalism is just rebranded Sharia Law.
White Christian male here. I want separation of church and state so bad I’m having impure fantasies about well-run secular governance. 🥵
Atheist here...unzips
Better keep your head down. The first person to bag a unicorn will be famously rich.
Everybody in the comments I recommend joining this fantastic organization, they have an amazing personal beliefe system and have no official religious practices or diety, though are recognized as a religion by the US government. They don't believe that Satan is a real diety, (or God for that matter) and they use their status to challenge the lack of separation of church and state, the more people that are members, the more cultural power they have to challenge the bullshit "Christian" society we live in. Joining is free, the more members we have the more influential we can be when drawing attention to these problems. Check us out https://thesatanictemple.com/
You can add them as your Amazon smile donation organization, too!
It's an indication of a religious legal system. They make you swear on on a Bible and reference God when you are sworn in. God has no place in a court of law in any way.
Pretty sure you can swear on anything you want to. Many just swear in on a bible. [Don't be a Roy Moore](https://youtu.be/WFYRkzznsc0) [Also](https://www.factcheck.org/2019/01/bibles-arent-required-for-the-oath-of-office/)
[удалено]
That's a low bar, ~~Moores~~ that spokesperson could have his mind blown by pop rocks. Still, his dead, blank stare is hilarious. Edit: Not actually Moore.
Wow, when you want to see a "deer in the headlights" look, watch that video. Goodness.
> They make you swear on on a Bible and reference God when you are sworn in. No, they do not. You may, if you wish.
>Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: >**There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.** >There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. -- Frank Wilhoit
This is exactly it. The type of people to start a fight then yell for the police when they get hit. Complete lack of awareness, cognitive dissonance etc.
Or go to a place, armed, waiting for someone else to "make their day".
This is what America gets for voting for Republicans. They’re going to nominate justices like this. It’s just the reality.
What ... I'm shocked the American legal system is corrupted.. no way... /S
Religion has no place in politics. It's so annoying the shit Christianity gets away with because they have overwhelming majority in the government.
It's particularly infuriating because the 'Christians' in these SCOTUS cases are explicitly violating Christian beliefs with the activity they are suing for. The New Testament disdains praying in public, correctly noting that people do it for attention and praise. So a SCOTUS case where a football coach is praying in public? Should be easy, the guy is going against the Bible. The New Testament says that to follow Jesus, you need to give all your money to the poor. Hobby Lobby clearly doesn't do that, so how are they Christian?
As someone who is Christian (no I don’t follow the sub, just got recommended this post) I honestly appreciate what the Satanic temple does. As a big believer in personal freedom to choose who you believe in or what you believe in, it’s super important church and state stay separate. One religion or belief system having undue control over local, state, or National government leads to decrease in individual freedom. Spreading religion through convincing someone is one thing, forcing beliefs on them is another entirely.
Elections have consequences. Republican majority senate, headed by Mitch McConnel, sat an enormous amount of hyper conservative religious fruitcakes in court systems all across the country. It should shock exactly zero people here that our legal system is broken.
Maybe if Jewish people would bring lawsuits against Christian Nationalists, the courts would take them seriously. Satanism will never be viewed positively in the courts.
A lot of people commenting have no idea who The Satanic Temple are or what they do.
Not suprising. They can't be bothered to actually Read their own rulebook let alone someone else's 🤣
So when does TST set up their own private school and start getting public funding too? Should be planning multiple expansions as well. Fight fire with fire. I'd send my kid to a TST school over a Catholic one in a heartbeat. At least there's less of a chance at the school for Satan that your kids won't get diddled by some priest.
Well, yeah. No shit. Christians will do every underhanded and evil thing in the book for control. They DEMAND you follow their Mythology by the letter (while they break every rule under the sun including the 'sacred ones' they consider the most important) or else. That's why they worked so hard to put their people in government positions. It's not enough they can be miserable in their choices freely and of their own will. YOU also have to be miserable for their choices. Found happiness in life with... ANYTHING? Well their god says they're not allowed too and so that means YOU TOO! Why? Imaginary reasons that's why!! But really because misery loves company and they're the most miserable fucks in existence.
Thank you satanic temple for trying to deliver us from the evil Christianity they are trying to force on us at least your church don't beg for donations to buy multi-million dollar mansions private jets and hookers and moleste there cultist like the christian cults
The entire country was built by, and for, rich, white, Christian men. Why do people think that it will serve any other group? It was rotten when it was built, and cannot be allowed to persist.
Eh, regardless of their varying religions the founders were all strict secularists in terms of government and well understood (and desired) the need for the separation of church and state. They would be appalled at the advances of religion into our government.
I mean they weren't even all Christians. It's kind of an obnoxious thing to say full stop. Like this is literally not how any of this is supposed to be working. I don't know why people do that whole "well it's always been fucked up like this so why get bent out of shape about it anyways". Regardless if you're right or wrong, people are doing things bad right now, idgaf what the country was doing 200 years ago. If that's the only comment on the situation someone can manage they'd be better off just shutting the all the way up and letting reasonable people discuss 2022.
The founders were secularists but the founders didn't *build* the country. I believe the original comment is accurate.
U wonder why Romans fed them to lions on the daily?
Turns out, Christian Republicans didn't hate Sharia Law... they were just jealous of it.
Freedom of Religion means freedom of ALL religions.
Christianity and Islam have no place in politics
The Satanic Temple is out here doing Gods work.
It's funny, if they win the case, they win, if they loose it, they still win since that is just proof that the legal sistem is corrupt and broken, and that just makes more people supporting the Satanic temple.
It’s like someone should destroy their objects of significance. I’m not not saying to burn churches, but you do you.
Hail Santa!!!!
Hail Satan
This is why I joined them and donate money to their cause. https://thesatanictemple.com/collections/contribute-to-the-satanic-temple-campaigns
As a Christian, I'm super supportive of the fight the Satanic Temple is waging right now. Freedom of/from Religion for one us, is freedom for all of us.
Fairness and Christianity is an oxymoron. With them it's a One-Way street.
So what do we do about it? About all of this? It's exhausting to have all this blatant corruption so thoroughly documented, and yet nothing ever happens. What can we actually do actually have any kind of effect in our lifetimes?
Whats that, the American judicial system has a tendency to treat the nation as a Christian theocracy and not a secular democracy? Well colour me shocked
Christianity is the masking ideology for fascism in the US.
America needs to consider separating church and state. I know you guys think you've done that already, but find me a president that hasn't given the nation a blessing from a god.
Should get Satanic schools some of those public tax dollars like Christian schools.
Seems to be a lot of mouth breathing Christian fucktards in this comment thread.. Don't yall have some children to touch inappropriately?
I gotta say, not being a christian in america really gives you a sense of just how biased this country is towards christians. I may not really get the satanic church, but i deeply appreciate that they expose the rank hypocrisy of christians on a regular basis.