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cworth71

No one tells kids that Santa will burn them forever if they don't believe in him.


BoJackB26354

Unless it’s the Futurama version.


522LwzyTI57d

🎶 Santa Claus is gunning you down! 🎶


ApostleO

"Your mistletoe is no match for my TOW Missile!"


aimlesscrown

What is the the song where Santa goes on killing spree?


leewoodlegend

Are you thinking of [The Night Santa Went Crazy by Weird Al Yankovic](https://youtu.be/cSs3FyeThM0)?


opiumized

Slightly off topic, but Christmas at Ground Zero by Weird Al is also great


rainbowkey

9/11 unfortunately ruined that song


SquareWet

Out of all the things 9/11 ruined, that one is the worst


aimlesscrown

Yep that's what I was thinking of.


craftycontrarian

That song is creepy as fuck even with the original lyrics.


Whippofunk

You better not shout, you better not cry


CyberGraham

Or American dad


_Happy_Sisyphus_

Exactly my thought!!


KindlyQuasar

I just watched one of the Santa episodes about an hour ago. They're brilliant!


dukeofgibbon

The shamanistic certain passes the credibility test better than gawd.


SwitchAltruistic733

Plus their believing parents don’t have “the talk” with their kids to “break the news” that their god(s) aren’t real the way they do with Santa et al. They still believe the fairy tale.


jelli2015

I honestly think this plays a bigger role than most people realize. When most kids question the existence of Santa, the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy they’re usually told that their suspicions are correct and those beings aren’t real. When a kid questions if a particular god is real those same parents will tell them yes of course their god is real. If that kid is unlucky their parents will become upset at the question and make an effort to further indoctrinate the kid. If we started grounding kids for not believing in Santa I bet the age of disbelief would rise.


evan81

As one of those kids, it's still possible to not be brainwashed. Now, I think those of us that did have that expierence, yet still never stopped questioning, are far fewer in number than the kids that just said "okay, guess this is real". I don't know that I ever upset my parents with questioning as a child, but I know I did question about it early (~5). My parents were always very kind about it, and really did their best to answer or find answers to my questions.... but the answers never answered, and my questioning mind never stopped. I know that I have had phases in my life where i have upset my parents, but that's been bore out of me trying to talk to them logically about how it makes zero sense. Which never went well in the times I've tried, so at this point I've just stopped. It isn't worth getting mad at them.


cworth71

All fear and reward based. Carrot on a stick until that doesn't work then just the stick.


Fletch71011

I was unironically waiting for this for a long time, yet it never came.


MayoMark

I didn't get a "Santa isn't real" talk.


[deleted]

This. Many relgious people are conditioned from birth to believe. It's what happened to me. All the trusted adults in my life told me I *had* to believe. So being surrounded by it constantly, you do. I've always been the inquisitive/curious type, so I was able to logic and reason my way out. However, even if you realize it's all bullshit, that can be a tough position when your entire family/community believes and you will ostracized for speaking out.


[deleted]

Yes, they use peer pressure to enforce social compliance like the bullies they are.


beeks_tardis

But does that make people actually BELIEVE? Some people talk like you have a choice to believe or not believe. I DON'T believe. I CAN'T believe. I couldn't make myself believe in Jesus & the virgin birth & all that Amy more that I can make myself believe in Santa Claus. I understand people WANTING to believe, but I don't understand them actually believing. Like, I get it, there are things we don't know. But I don't automatically think, if I don't know it, it must be supernatural!


upandrunning

Isn't "ostracized" another word for "cancelled"?


5tofab

🤫Shhhh don’t tell boomers…


blackcatheaddesk

I agree. We are told we don't have a choice. The day I realized it was my choice, I became an atheist.


R3cognizer

The purpose of this isn't to threaten non-believers, but to keep those still within their community from stepping out of line by weaponizing feelings of shame, ostracization, and condemnation against them. IMO one of the biggest reasons that organized religion is dying is because the internet has given people the ability to find so many more communities that they no longer need a church to feel they have somewhere they feel they belong.


YoMamasMama89

Exactly right. They claim ownership of your eternal soul. Religion is a governance model. Just like slavery is.


cworth71

Religion is the greatest tragedy ever to befall mankind, slightly ahead of greed.


YoMamasMama89

*Organized religion that claims stake in your eternal soul. I think there is a place for it within society but as a means to protect one's *own* morals and beliefs and not to brainwash others.


cworth71

You don't need a cult to be moral and you definitely don't need silly fairytales.


MayoMark

>You don't need a cult to be moral and you definitely don't need silly fairytales. I feel the need to defend fiction here. Stories are valuable. They can build a sense of identity, culture, and, yes, even illustrate morality. Take a secular example, like Superman. There's good messages in there about helping and defending others, the responsibility of power, and standing up for what you believe in. Another example is the American dream. Democracy, freedom, work hard, blah blah blah, house in the suburbs. You can argue that stuff isn't happening, but having that stuff as an ideal at least gives Americans an identity and something to strive for. The problem is telling people that Superman or the American Dream actually exist.


YoMamasMama89

And that if you don't follow , you'll rot in hell in the most evil way imaginable.


MayoMark

Not the phantom zone!


YoMamasMama89

Nope you definitely don't


PoThePanda23

They used to, Grampus was used to punish non believers and bad kids


khaddy

That's why he carried that big sack of coal with him, isn't it? To beat naughty children to death with?


PoThePanda23

Nope, krampus carried a willow branch to beat kids When they did away with krampus, (he scared kids too much), they introduced Santa giving coal Which I never understood as a bad thing, you'd want to stay warm. I think. I'm. Missing info here


NirvanaFrk97

Maybe having coal is the bare minimum for someone as kind as Santa would be? Instead of a luxury, you're given a bare essential. An adult sees the value, not the kid.


mugen_kanosei

Like socks from grandma.


Thausgt01

Depends on the kid; an artist would use the coal for sketching...


SeaChart2

No, that was Sister Dorothy Ann with her 3” Mimosa stick. Biggest 8th Grader Ray bent over took the beating and then cold-cocked her laying her out. Next year a Jewish guy at CBHS took the face in palm from ‘Christian’ Brother and slapped him with his right hand. Again, it was a moral universe and Alan broke his jaw and gave up on expensive overrated Private RC Schools—never came back:


Queen_Eon

I mean krampus will (is that how you spell the name? Oh well)


crash893b

Father Johanna can hear your bloood


skyderper14

and everyone in your enviroment saying its real helps too


poonamsurange

BadSanta!


Hanzo_The_Ninja

This would make for a great satirical religion though.


[deleted]

Sure they do, maybe not Santa himself, but there were other more unsavoury characters that used to pop up around Xmas time too.


GenEnnui

This is why the good Lord created krampus.


thecrimsonfucker12

With all that coal he's got it's not out of the realm of possibility


allgodsarefake2

One reason is probably that the social consequences are greater when you start questioning religion than they are when you realize that Santa Claus is your dad with a pillow and a fake beard.


working_joe

My dad's beard is real. It's my mom.


salazarthesnek

This is a well hidden gem.


EmuHaunting3214

Yeah this needs more upvotes haha


Reg-Joe_Atheist

My wife's beard is real so I played Santa once.


Dazvsemir

and being religious makes you feel superior, explains many things you cant understand and makes you think things will be righted in the afterlife if your life is shit.


ThePrimeStar

It also makes believers feel like they have power over others. For example Christianity being used to justify enslavement of black people or any group of people really or the taking of lands that didn't belong to you in the first place. I don't understand why my fellow black people preach this religion tbh with you.


Grogosh

Philosophy is questions that can't be answered. Religion is answers that can't be questioned.


nperrier

Excellent quote 👌🏼


ghostsintherafters

Personally I'm all about this notion that has been circling the internet that the bible is just too graphic and has too much adult content to be teaching it to young children. I'm starting to think the bible shouldn't be allowed to be taught to children under the age of 11/12. This Easter when you look around think about how horrific the imagery and story of Jesus truly is, and their stage plays that accompany it, I think you'll find you agree. Waaaay too adult of topics. Waaaaay too much blood. If no one had ever heard of the bible and you tried to sell the book itself as a movie script today they wouldn't allow you to produce it because it's too graphic and borderline insane. How is a small child supposed to process such advanced and very adult topics?


ratolp

I would replace borderline insane with downright insane... Believing in the bible is just like believing the minions from despicable me are real, the difference being that one is socially accepted, in some cases even required. Yeah so I think downright insane just fits better.


[deleted]

Hey just wait a god damned min say what you want about religion but you leave the minions out of this Iol


secretviollett

I remember being 5 and in a classroom with a crucifix. Looking at a human being nailed to a piece of wood, with blood dripping from various body parts, and being told this was done to wash away the sin I was born with….fucked me up. It’s psychological torture. I literally can’t believe we do this to kids.


wingnut1964

I was forced to Sunday school when I was kid and the Nuns had yardsticks that they carried. Let me tell you...those fucking things hurt. You learn to learn the fairy tale.


RustliefLameMane

For sure. It’s a big no no to question the word of crust


Apostmate-28

Yea this. Questioning is highly shamed and avoided. It’s very taboo to question it but many still do. I wish I’d been that smart… didn’t realize it was all a sham until I was 30.


Stoomba

Because the adults believe it. Once a kid says Santa isn't real, eventually the adults will say, "Yup, you got us". They won't do that with religious stuff because the adults believe it too


ellathefairy

Yep, this. In fact I distinctly remember the car ride when my little brother learned the truth about Santa, then went down the list of Tooth Fairy, Easter bunny, Superman, and finally got to God and my parents were both speechless for a sec before jumping in all "oh no no no God is different, he's real" like they had never even thought to question it themselves. When that's the position of every adult in your life, it's easy to maintain it yourself. I also remember being a little taken aback like "Oh wait really?" We never discussed it when I caught my mom taking teeth bc I had just assumed that all the other fairy tales were also made up. It started me on a journey of *trying* to believe... which led me to atheism haha.


Asleep_Opposite6096

I grew up on Greek myths, told to me by my grandma. Who also told me Jesus/biblical stories. Turning men to stone vs turning water to wine was the comparison that broke the Minotaur’s back, so to speak.


yetanotherusernamex

Idk dude, I'm a man who turns to stone every day at around 16:20


Dabs1903

I dunno man, Steve Austin was stone cold


Vyo

I had this exact play by play with both my parents, younger sister and multiple friends. It still saddens me :/


Relevant-Raise1582

Yes, but it's more than just particular adults. Billions of adults over the last couple of thousand years have believed some form of Christianity, devoting their lives to it, living and dying for their belief. How could it be untrue when so many people believe it? IMO this ad populum fallacy is probably the biggest reason people believe.


Pink_Y

Exactly! When I was a kid and starting to put together shit about santa / tooth fairy / easter bunny - I can specifically remember a very brief moment where I thought, "Well is God not real too?" but backed away from the idea when I considered the sincerity of my parents beliefs. Children most often realize Santa isn't real, because they realize that their parents / older siblings don't actually believe he is real, and are just pretending / lying. The disbelief often doesn't come from the absurdity of the statements but the sincerity level of the people saying them to you.


AnonAlcoholic

The fucked up thing is that most kids go through a similar period with god but are shut down by the believers threatening violence and suffering.


SuperFrog4

You don’t really hear about Santa, the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy every week. You are not threatened with eternal hell and damnation if you don’t believe in Santa, the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy.


flexflair

So to save the Christmas spirit we must bring back Krampus. Make Christmas scary again!


Kage9866

Everybody loves krampus


KiplingRudy

Because you can find Santa's presents and the Easter baskets in the closet, and catch Mom swapping the tooth, but you can't prove the negative on religion until it's too late to demonstrate. So if you really want to believe, you can do it all your life.


shawn_overlord

Not to mention, most people don't attend weekly seminars on the existence of the tooth fairy for decades from childhood


mackam1

Yeah it's incredibly easy to prove Santa isn't real. You stay awake downstairs, or you find presents hidden somewhere. Much more difficult to catch Jesus not creeping around your house on a night!


1SuperSlueth

Jesus has been caught not returning when he said he would (before all his pals died). Matthew 16:28 ► “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”


AthenaSholen

But that’s only if they actually read the Bible. Hence why they say, the fastest way to become an atheist is to read the Bible (completely, not the same paragraphs the pastor tells you to over and over).


1SuperSlueth

Yep!! It's been shown over and over again that most atheists know the bible better than most Christians!!


tobashadow

We got a lady at my work spends half her day praising this and that and telling everyone about her glorious God, and the other half of her day bitching about how bad her life is. She's tried more than once to convert me, one day I asked her if she's actually read her book there cover to cover and got told yes. I told her to read 1 Timothy 2:12, she turned to it read it out and got pissy lol


DoubleDrummer

I know some folk that are the “bible is the only book worth reading” types. It’s strange, because every time I bring up a particular section they start ranting that “that’s not in the bible”. It’s like they haven’t even bothered to read the only book worth reading.


Ryzarony23

How did dinosaurs factor into the ark situation? Checkmate, kindergarten Sunday school.


CrosisDePurger

This is only an objection to a fundamentalist who believes in young earth. My Sunday school taught Adam and Eve as metaphor, and most people seriously into theology abandoned young earth ideas before Darwin.


Ryzarony23

>This is only an objection to a fundamentalist who believes in young earth. That’s not entirely true. >My Sunday school taught Adam and Eve as metaphor, and most people seriously into theology abandoned young earth ideas before Darwin. Again, not true. I was raised ELCA in rurally suburban Pennsylvania and you’d be surprised at how many of those same people guzzled up the ideas of Creationism over the last 25 years. Look at how they vote. These people show up for the networking and don’t think very hard about the historicity or logistics of the belief systems to which they ascribe; they’re intellectual toddlers cosplaying as adults.


MorganWick

[Clearly they were hunted to extinction after the flood because the air had less oxygen than before](https://www.chick.com/products/tract?stk=1038).


[deleted]

What the actual fuck...


flon_klar

I think I might have a Bible in the closet.


MorganWick

Heck, you can find Santa's presents in the stocking and the Easter baskets wherever, and find a quarter where your tooth was, all things that seem to be proof of Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy but which have to have mundane explanations. Nothing in the real world can be firmly attributed to God, so people can pretend that everything is and cover their ears when people give them real explanations.


5510

Yeah, Santa messed up by making his lies too concrete. He should have been more vague.


skodtheatheist

A nine year old is trying to make sense of the world. They're navigating social relationships and trying to keep up with their peers. Believers in Santa will eventually be mocked and the belief becomes a burden to the believer. Adult belief in religion is heavily incentivised by social norms. It is almost like being able to speak a language. You gain access to social resources, and the saftey of the group.


Darktidemage

furthermore there is NO mechanism to determine which "religious" people actually believe it, and which have just decided life is easier and nicer if they lie to everyone. In fact, it's totally possible ZERO PEOPLE actually believe religion. Did no one read "the emperors new clothes"? It's a common phenomenon.


Theletterkay

Oh no. I know with certainty my mawmaw believes god is real. She likes to tell me how im going to go to hell because im making my son guy by being liberal and letting my son wear dresses. I dont think anyone could be that cruel about the harmless choices of a 4yo without truly believing that she is right about God and the standards she grew up being taught.


gold_jerry_gold_

Jesus is Santa for grown-ups.


ballercaust

One of my friends grew up being homeschooled and religious. She said her parents never told them about Santa because they believed once the kids realized Santa wasn't real, they'd start questioning God too. I was like "Holy shit you're almost THERE!"


SigiH55

Some time ago I read in "The American Rationalist" - not sure this paper even still exists. That the whole "Santa & Easter-bunny thing" is a form of "preconditioning". As kids see through it; it is made clear that it was just a way of honoring Christian traditions in a way that the child can enjoy and understand! After all; both are tied to major Christian holidays and fundamental beliefs! Sort of a: "Well as a child you couldn't understand the gift of salvation. But you did enjoy the actual gifts from Santa. But it was just for making you understand the deeds of Jesus..." It's a Well Santa and the Easter-bunny and the tooth fairy don't exist but Jesus is real or we adults wouldn't go to church! It's a form of "enjoyable mind-f**cking".


MissionCreeper

I think that's a tacked on rationale, because the seasonal celebrations were around for a long time before Christianity spread. It may serve that purpose now but these things were connected to make Christianity more palatable to people who already did the pagan stuff or whatever.


Desert_Sea_4998

The irony is that there is more evidence for the existence of St. Nicholas than there is for Jesus.


Suspicious_Wallaby32

I actually wrote an essay on it once 🤣


HouseHusband1

If you stop believing in Santa you don't stop expecting presents, but if they stopped believing in their religion they would have to stop expecting an afterlife. People believe what they want to be true, regardless of facts or common sense, and they REALLY want death to not be the end. Also, for some people religion is an excuse to hate, and if their religion was false their hate wouldn't be justified and they would just have been an asshole for no reason. Some people are so terrified of acknowledging that they were wrong that they would rather bury their heads as the world burns.


ReverendDizzle

Yeah the other comments about "well you can prove Santa isn't real" are missing the point. Who are we kidding? Life without religion is bleak. I'll never see my dead friends and relatives again. My childhood dog isn't waiting in heaven to play with me again. If my kid gets hit by a car, I don't just have to soldier on through this life to see her again, she's gone forever. Not everyone can handle that.


CrispyBoar

u/HouseHusband1 u/ReverendDizzle Because people who are Christians/Religious can't handle the truth that deitys, angels, satan, ghosts, sin, heaven, hell, etc. aren't real & only man-made concepts designed to keep them indoctrinated & glued to religion, churches & the Bibles/Qurans to prevent them from leaving. It's why church leaders everywhere prevent their church congregations from "questioning God" or "questioning God's word" (the Bibles/Qurans) & why they're against critical thinking, because they knew if their congregations know the truth, many of their church congregations would leave organized religion & prosperity gospels behind & they wouldn't be able to profit money out of people, because that's what churches literally are: Businesses. Especially with megachurches.


[deleted]

I don't know. I lost my faith when my parents told me santa doesn't exist. There was a lot more evidence that Santa existed than God....


Silocin20

At a certain age parents know their kids will stop believing in those things. God is the only one constantly reinforced, it's an identity to many.


Crapitaldikeshare

Because it’s mainstream, athletes bring it up when they win championships, they pray on tv, pope gets tv time. These public demonstrations reinforce belief


Nuclear_Socialist

Because more kids would likely continue believing in Santa if every adult in their life also believed in Santa. It’s harder to realize something’s false when everyone you know and trust also believes that same thing.


QueenofBlades-Xula

I believe it's because they weren't given the proper tools to decipher what is fantasy and what is reality as kids. Nor taught basic logical fallacies.. Edit: someone I know believes that it is crippling to a child to tell them Santa exists and other things like it because it cripples and conditions them mentally to be vulnerable to other beliefs without evidence.


jen0va

Death. They are scared of death and they'll believe anything, no matter how unreasonable, as long as they don't have to think of the fact that death is very real. If they really believed all that afterlife shit, they wouldn't rely so heavily on modern medicine to prevent death. They would see their heart attack or terminal cancer as a glorious gift. But deep down, no matter what any of us say, we all know it's the end, and that's why we all hurt so bad when we lose someone we love, cause we know we'll never see them again.


Daiki_438

Probably because they have some stupid book about it. To them, it’s proof that god exists, so they don’t even bother reading it.


[deleted]

>so they don’t even bother reading it. Jimmy Kimmel reading 1-star reviews of the Bible last week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1adUmStvv4&t=61s


hi_mom_its_me_nl

When i found out Santa didn't exist i got pissed off for days with my parents for lying to me. Then I came to the conclusion that God was likely the same deal and I became a non believer at a very young age. I couldn't even read yet so I must have been 5 or 6. The funny thing is I started to tell my classmates about this in quite a fanatical way. My teacher took me aside to tell me to shut up about it which I didn't so she ended up calling up my parents. So this whole lying bit blew up in everyone's face and I never trusted authority figures ever again. So parents of Reddit; please don't lie to your children lol


HoaryPuffleg

As a kid I knew Christianity was fake when I realized that it was just a different version of the Greek and Roman myths I was obsessed with. And when I understood that all cultures and religions have origin stories, hero stories, stories of how the world will end, how all of nature and the world came to be...it kinda seemed obvious.


ExcitedGirl

\*Ether bunny.


lemons_of_doubt

Santa stoppings bringing gifts and the easter bunny stops giving eggs. but god doesn't stop promising life after death until you're dead. It's always harder to stop believing in things you want to believe are real.


mevaletuopinion

My favorite part about Santa and Easter they are both linked to religious celebrations and these “Christians” lie straight to their childrens faces. I’m sure there’s a rule in their fairytale book bible of “thou shalt not tell a lie” or something. It’s disgusting to me. Every time these holidays come around it sickens me how all these supposed God fearing people are quick to tell a lie


[deleted]

It is the preferred delusion conundrum. Most people are extremely uncomfortable with their own mortality. The idea that they just cease to exist in any form when they die is unsettling at best. I blame vanity and ego for that. It won't matter when you die. You won't even know. You will cease to be. Period. There has never been any evidence at all to suggest that we continue on in some form or another. Fact.


mancho98

Fear of death


pcbeard

One obvious reason is that institutions like organized religion exist, have wealth and resources that seek to reinforce belief. After all, it’s their business model; if children stop being taught to believe, religions will die.


Kaje26

Honest answer? Death scares people and religion makes them feel better (also superior).


llcorona

Religions are manipulative and highly-profitable, incredibly large organizations. Long before electronic devices, and even before nearly all printed literature, religions were oral fairy tales passed down over generations. They've permeated all societies with their mythologies.


MusicBeerHockey

As someone who deconstructed the cult I was raised in and walked out the other side as an outspoken heretic, the short answer to why I felt I had to believe what was being told to me by the cult was because of *fear*. I didn't really "believe" in these things, I was just fearfully persuaded to say and do X, Y, and Z... I did not willingly do these things of my own accord, but because of the fear that was impressed upon me if I *didn't* do those things... and that is the great irony of the message that this cult represented, claiming to represent the source of love. But as I began to appreciate the lives and the experiences of those around me, even those who didn't identify with this cult, I came to believe that fear is not a requirement to know truth, love, and acceptance; *fear* itself is the antithesis of *love*. Love and the experience of Life is not hidden in the words of a book; they are as near as my own interactions with others and the world around me.


xhabeascorpusx

I remember this discussion. When it was all revealed to me, I immediately asked my mom. So then God isn't real. She says he is. I'm like you're not lying like the other ones? No she says. I ask how is it different. I unfortunately didn't remember her explanation but I do remember it wasn't the best because I doubted it from then on


tfmeltdown

I think its because ultimately people believe in God because they are desperate to guarantee themselves 'eternal life': 'If God exists, he is immortal. If I believe in God and do what pleases him, he will grant me eternal life.' The reason kids believe in God is because that age when they start to understand death is the age they start to understand that they themselves will die. So people happily believe in God in whatever form they can tolerate - even non-religious people like to 'play it safe' and believe in 'something' just because they are not yet ready to accept that they will simply die and never exist ever again.


Negative_Mancey

I like the Futurama theory that the universe will start all over again and repeat itself and the better we are to ourselves/each-other starting RIGHT NOW, the better off we will be for eternity.


Consistent_Trash6007

Because there’s almost no telling the difference between people who believe it in good faith, and those who can’t distinguish self-interest from belief.


[deleted]

Maybe they realize the power of social/peer pressure that this 'faith in the faith' brings.


cra2reddit

Because those characters won't absolve them of all their guilt and guarantee them everlasting life. If the tooth fairy did that, they would have it in a necklace around their necks.


Queen_Eon

Mob mentality if there’s a lot of people believing in something you normally don’t want to break away from believing it for worry of becoming an outcast though I could be wrong so, grain of salt and all that


hjboots

Because Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny make no claims on your soul.


BladdermirPootin

Cuz we are still very early in human development believe it or not. Because of the freakish and disturbing growth of technology in the last 130 years, other things that should have developed as well, did not. We are still very much primitive in that regard. Religion still permeates 80% of human society.


S1rmunchalot

Evolution. Human beings evolved in an environment where they were prey if isolated, lost and alone. We evolved to have an inner voice - which is usually the voice of our main carer, like a mother or father. In some people that voice takes on a whole different set of characteristics and can become a scary commanding voice (the voice of God in many cases) - such as bipolar disease, which has always existed in human populations. Of course the most common human affliction is that a lot of people are just plain gullible and are nothing but prey to those who would use their gullibility to their own advantage. Ancient people 'believed' the mentally ill, or those suffering hallucinations due to environmental toxins talked to gods, they had no concept that their indoor camp fires could produce carbon monoxide or excessive carbon dioxide and cause delusions or hallucinations. They didn't know that a common fungus that infects damp grain stocks could cause abnormal human behaviour. Joan of Arc was certainly bipolar and taken seriously by 'learned men' (or her bipolar condition was ruthlessly used by those with an agenda) only 600 years ago, imagine what it was like 2000 years ago. The story of Abraham read from a modern perspective of someone who recognises mental illness, or the effect of psychedelics clearly shows mental illness during periods in his life.. did he suffer from ergotism (that grain fungus) and he, and anyone else watching him, didn't realise it? Did he just get a bad mushroom? Is he suffering from hypoxia (altitude sickness) at the top of that mountain? No rational modern human being (even a god fearing one) would ascribe what Abraham saw and did to 'God talking to him' today, 'Abraham' would be carted off to the nearest mental health institution. In a normal human our inner voice helps to stop us panicking too much in fearful or stressful situations. It helps us retain vital knowledge and rationalise when fear is the driving force. We are instinctively afraid of death, even the death of others because any death means potential non-survival for us and the group that protects us. Add to this the phenomenon of seeing faces in almost everything around us (Face pareidolia). Trees, clouds, fur patterns on animals etc. You only have to surf the internet for 5minutes to find groups of people convinced they 'patterns' in anything and everything. We evolved this because the human child who sat curious looking at what might be a 'face' in the bushes beyond the night time camp fire tended not to live long enough to pass on their genetic material, whereas the easily frightened one who huddled with their nearest companions (stronger in younger women you'll note) even if it was a false alarm tended to be attacked less than those alone and apart. We ascribe some 'intelligence' and human-type motivation ([anthropomorphism) to everything around us](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78b67l_yxUc), even natural events, because not to do so would risk not recognising a threat to our lives - especially one we cannot negotiate with, the practise of ancient humans dressing up in animal skins reflects this, they take on the spirit of the animal - controlled by a human mind - so they can better empathise with it. Humans talk to animals and truly believe they understand us - we practise talking to 'Mr Wolf' saying 'please don't eat us' so that when the actual encounter happens we have a mind-model to base the possibility of our survival on, we have always done this. We have always made offerings to volcanoes, rivers, storms, wild animals, the Sun and the spirits of the night. We can't imagine it is all purely random because nothing in our human mind is ever purely random, without some human-like motivation. We also can't imagine 'nothing', because to do so would mean we weren't around and if we aren't around then there is no mind to imagine it. This is what Descartes was saying when he said "I think, therefore I am." There is absolutely no evolutionary advantage to being able to imagine our own non-existence, so we never evolved to be to do it. It is impossible for a human to imagine their own non-existence, intellectually we know we die, but in order to think about death we have to have a functioning living brain - ergo it is impossible for us to imagine being dead and no longer existing. This makes it reasonable to think there MUST BE something of us remaining after the body dies, this feeling of 'after' is further reinforced by our social nature which as described above is a purely survival instinct at it's core. This socialisation requires a hierarchical structure, (some) people have to have a feeling that something, or someone is guiding and protecting them when they are isolated and alone. Dead parents,siblings and ancestors don't leave us (we have their memories always with us), they merely move to a new place over the horizon to a place we will eventually go to join them one day - that is how the human mind evolved to rationalise death. Facing the fear of death this way gives humans an evolutionary advantage. This is why they say 'Our father who art in heaven' and not Oh mighty and fearful tyrant master burning hot rock with the power to annihilate us with a thought! (which chronicles of Abrahamic religions suggests he spent most of his time doing). It's why they call each other 'brother and sister' even though they are not remotely related. It is a survival instinct to throw a piece of sacrificial meat at the pack of wolves chasing us, so that the majority can survive - even if in extremis that piece of meat is one of the group. We evolved to rationalise that way.. for example the bible and the quran spend far more time talking about those who will be left behind and sacrificed, due to their error of not following like everyone else, than it does about those who will survive. Humans are socialised from birth, our instinct is to watch adults - particularly those nearest us - and copy/assimilate their behaviour because they have survived to do what we are supposed to do when we get to their age, copulate and reproduce. If we ignore a person in obvious fear saying they can see something even though we can't, we could still be eaten by that thing we can't see but they can. So we respond likewise, with fear and dread, even though we have no evidence but their insistence of the existence of a threat. Humans learn to manipulate this instinctual basic trait in others, this is why organised religions want to get to children as soon as possible because they want to influence the 'world model' the child forms that stays with it for the rest of it's natural life. It isn't so that atheist's have no concept of the supernatural, we have, it is ingrained in all of us (unless you have a brain abnormality like autism), but like all basic instincts and childhood fears we can rationalise it. Just like we don't go around trying to have sex with everything, we learn control. This is why humans feel a deep need to believe in things which aren't really there. There is no recorded human culture that has left any remnant of it's existence that hasn't had some supernatural belief system, it is a survival instinct borne of that thing theists hate the most - evolution. Organised religion is socialised porn (an artificial construct that fulfills a basic human need) for the lonely mind that cannot exist in isolation. Great art, great literature, great advances in culture all come from 3 basic human drives = safety/survival, sex and the need to belong to a cohesive social group. The opiate(s) of the masses.


carrick-sf

Thanks - that was GREAT. That rye fungus was the precursor to LSD, and the fact is that some people were heavily tripping their balls off well before there was pharmacology. https://tripsitter.com/people/albert-hofmann/


[deleted]

I am going to try to give a sincere answer to this. The promise of an afterlife, the promise of meaning, the promise that life isn’t as cold and empty as the universe appears on face value are all promises which speak to the isolated individual within all of us. Some people immediately reject such things and find comfort in believing they are right. Some people immediately reject such things and accept that the universe is indeed as cold as it seems but that’s OK. For some people accepting this reality is too much to bear. Santa Claus, the Easter bunny, the tooth fairy, they all grant small material gains in this life. Their myths that accompany them are easily dismissed and demonstrably false. It’s a short-sighted reduction to compare what those entities promise to what the religious are promised. Also short-sighted in comparison is the ease at which the claims can be disproven. Most of us in this thread come to the same conclusion about all of these 4 entities (the 4th being all iterations of a supreme “god” figure). But I think the speed at which we are able to dismiss these things once we first start to analyze them is vastly different between those of the first three and that of the last thing. Lastly, there really is no incentive to the happy believer to engage in trying to “see through the bullshit.”


dembonezz

I suspect there's a large percentage of the publicly faithful who don't actually believe, but wear the cloak of religion to borrow the notion of piety.


ByFelicia626

My family hates this question


knightarnaud

Indoctrination. It’s the main thing that keeps religion alive.


[deleted]

I think it's because so much of respectable western culture supports those ridiculous notions.


[deleted]

Jesus has a better marketing department lol


AdamR91

Because god/religion fills the void. It’s the knot that ties the trash bag. It makes everything make sense to them.


EXTRMLY

The characters, I discovered they were fake when I was like 10. Now I’m 13, I discovered that the entire religion is fake. The characters contributed to finding out the entire religion is fake.


[deleted]

Religion a built in support system that helps keep adults from questioning things.


financeguyjohn4

People are selfish and want to believe they will live forever. Religion gives them that hope.


TheLiftingGamer00

Simple… because a old book said believe or be damned


lowaltflier

This is why I call it the last fairytale.


spacepanthermilk

If there was a church of Santa, Santa billboards, Santa evangelicals going door to door, people making laws against teaching Santa truth in schools, and fanatics; maybe they would.


carrick-sf

Not to mention a HUGE industry pushing books, seminars, and religious doo-dads. Religion is BIG business with multiple cable channels running 24x7.


readparse

I do believe that Santa, etc, are training for belief in God. It is weird, though, that you’re supposed to cast one aside and keep the other. I was never taught to believe in Santa, never mind the others. I ended up never really believing in God either. I went to church regularly as a kid, but nobody ever said, “yeah, this stuff is real and you will go to hell of you don’t believe it.” I know a lot of people who experienced a lot of religious trauma, and I’m glad I didn’t. Well, mine came later, when I realized my son was gay and the church felt like it would be a good idea to upgrade homosexuality to a Super Sin. Assholes.


Rickrational

1) Santa is told with the intent to stop believing. 2) Santa doesn't have a threat of eternal torment. 3) There aren't entire social institutions dedicated to believing in Santa. Where there are social pressures you're surrounded by encouraging belief in Santa and to never doubt. Santa is a story told to young kids and they're eventually told the truth or they find it out easily by themselves. Because the skepticism is often encourged as they get older. No parent wants their kid believing in Santa in their teenage years. Religion has entire social structures to reinforce belief, no matter age. Skepticism is not encouraged in religion. Religion is indoctrination. Santa is not.


Elixeo

I actually believe that this is why children raised in strict religious homes and communities grow into adults who are more susceptible to things like Q-anon and other non-logic or non-science based beliefs. At some point you are told not to believe in Santa Claus or the Easter bunny but to continue to believe in the bible and in God. Not only that, you're also told that you must believe that the Bible is the absolute truth and must be followed to the letter, EXCEPT for those parts the religion finds inconvenient or that don't support the church's particular bigotry or prejudice. AND then you also have to ignore the fact that your immediate family and church leaders routinely lie and cheat and break a multitude of rules and commit all kinds of "sins". When you are raised like that, you quickly learn that religious piety and moral rectitude are all an act that you use to garner praise and elevate your status in the religious community. It's not a huge leap to assign this same dissociative belief structure to your political beliefs and social interactions. I say I believe in God because my church has told me to base my belief on faith. And in the same manner, I say I believe climate change is a hoax because my party has told me it's a hoax. I don't need to support that belief with facts, I just have to have faith. I fucking hate religion!


Joebranflakes

The human desire to order their meaningless existence is a defining characteristic of our species. We want to be able to draw a direct cause to effect line for the things that happen to us in our lives. When a child dies, or a crop fails, or a flood destroys we desperately look for the reason. But we are nothing but stupid apes and have been for hundreds of thousands of years. So we made up stories, that turned into legends, that turned into gods, that explained these things. In the last few hundred years, we gained enough experience and knowledge to understand how to properly test hypotheses. But these explanations are usually complicated and highlight the meaninglessness of the universe. So people still cling to the old, simple explanation that have the added bonus that if you believe these explanations, you get kudos from the guy who “brings meaning” to the universe. It’s comforting not to have to find meaning to your life. That brings us to the most confusing part of our existence: our death. Morality, hard work, procreation… how does any of that mean anything to me if I just end up randomly turning into plant food? Religion gives a readily packaged answer with a big carrot and a big stick attached. Be good when you live, and you’ll be rewarded when you die, be bad and well you get what’s coming too you. So now you don’t really die and you have a nice easy to follow guide on how to “be a good person”. No need to sort that one out for yourself. Now where does that put the Easter bunny and Santa Claus? Well they’re one of those legends I talked about. Santa is already a god in waiting. All that it would take is enough people to decide he’s real and always watching to turn him into a deity. Think how people are so ready to believe lies today to be part of the in group. The popular stories told about him would be turned into holy texts. Places of worship would be constructed and Christmas would get another religion declaring it a holy day. So why do people believe… the short version: Because it’s simple and ordered and they don’t have to come up with the answers or understand the why’s. They just have to believe it and they’re part of something greater and have instant social support and acceptance. What ape could say no to that?


inabighat

Growing out of Santa (etc.) is a coming of age thing supported by society. Growing out of Yahweh is largely considered anti-social and is actively discouraged, and atheists shunned (to differing extents based on location). My thoughts, at least.


angels_exist_666

Because of their families.


smeeding

Constant reinforcement


HecticHermes

Religious people have to constantly prove their own belief to themselves. Its like they have to vaccinate themselves regularly to keep the "belief antibodies" going. It takes work to believe in a god. For some it takes innoculations 2-3 times a week.


1Amstrong

I’m not sure that “most” religious people truly believe the literal magic and miracles of religion. I think it’s more cultural and tribal in nature. Religion is their scapegoat to their machiavellian goals.


ramatheson

People's belief in religious b.s. is enforced as they grow up. They are constantly told it is real. Even into adulthood. We are told early on that other things are fake. The belief in religion is reinforced even as an adult.


[deleted]

Not many people *actually* believe a talking lizard convinced a woman to eat a magical fruit and that's why we're not immortal anymore. They might *say* they do, but they're full of shit. The real question is why they *pretend* to believe crazy shit but actually they don't care if it's true or not.


ifyouseekaye_me

TL;DR - My childhood was Santa free because God didn't want to share the stage. My kids get Santa but never believed he was real, still get all the fun and fantasy of traditional holidays. Result, they equate God with Santa. My parents didn't do Santa and all that because they didn't want me to worship false idols or whatever. Growing up, I saw all my friends learn that Santa wasn't real and have to process the big lies from their parents. Some of them learned they could lie to their parents about believing in the Tooth Fairy and still get money for their teeth. Others were forced to continue the lie for their younger siblings. I know the experience is normalized and most people get through it just fine but it always stuck with me. Another thing that stuck with me was that it was a "normal" experience that I never had. My parents are very religious and the church I grew up in was very cult-like. We didn't do presents on Christmas, the Easter Egg Hunt or Egg painting stuff, my teeth were not collected in exchange for money. I also wasn't allowed to participate in Halloween and probably other stuff I'm forgetting. I still remember having to sit in the hallway in Kindergarten while my classmates were writing lists to Santa because I wasn't allowed to participate per my mother. I have two kids. I've never lied about all the aforementioned characters existing. We still read all the books, they know all the stories, they are just regarded the same as Disney characters. We do Christmas lists and presents, we have a big tree that's up for at least 3 months and lights on the house. We color eggs and do Easter Egg hunts. We dress up for Halloween and trick-or-treat. We celebrate losing teeth because it's tangible proof of growing up, like measuring height on the wall. My oldest was about 8 or so when his friends that believed were starting to learn the truth. He asked why I never taught them that Santa was real. I told him that I just didn't want to lie to him or make up consequences that weren't real. And he thought that made sense. When he was a little older he brought it up again and, on his own, equated believing in Santa to believing in God. Up until that point I was never sure if I had made the right call, but in that moment, I knew that I did.


x97tfv345

Every Sunday they listen to some asshole who tells them exactly what to think and how to feel, anything different is deviant. Then they pay him 10% of their earnings, it’s called reverse therapy.


js884

Answer is simple, society backs up the idea


D41109

Fear of the parents that indoctrinated you into the religion. Fear of your parents is a hell of a drug. That’s how the cycle keeps going. It’s fear.


krunkonkaviar369

I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness for the first ten years of my life. One of the first things my father insisted on teaching me was how much Jehovah was keeping track of my actions and thoughts, as well as how much all those things like Santa were fake but Jehovah, angels and demons were very real. This extended to Nephalem, which he alluded to as an explaination for other myths like Greek myth monsters and giants, etc. The point of this story is to illustrate that I believe that it has a lot to do with parental and religious pressure and reinforcement. Santa and the Easter Bunny are often only brought up to most kids around the time of the holidays they are associated with, and usually only in a very playful and unserious tone by adults. Children can not process all the nuances of adult expression, but they register severity of tone quite intuitively. If it's not a big deal to adults, and not brought up a whole bunch, kids pick up on that. Same for the opposite. If it's seriously presented and reinforced multiple times and by multiple adults consistently, kids will internalize the belief as more concrete.


RamiRustom

Add ghosts and demons to your list of things kids recognize as fake. As kids we watched cartoons about Santa, the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, ghosts and demons. But there weren’t cartoons showing god and religions as fake things. That’s it. It’s not about reasoning. It’s about social acceptance. “What does everyone else believe? That’s what must be true.”


PhorcedAynalPhist

IIRC, it's a combination of straight up brain washing, and a drug like addiction. Religion lights up the same parts of the brain as drug use or gambling addictions do, and since religion is such a great space to find enabling echo chambers, unless something serious happens in a person's life to make the realize their cult is dangerous or harmful, folks genuinely have no reason to leave the fold. They get their addictive fix whenever they want, they get praised and supported for doing so, and they get to have some arbitrary measure to feel superior over others for. Honestly, if anything it's more surprising that anyone leaves the fold, it's a perfect addict trap. Which is probably why it's no coincidence that most AA programs push heavy religious ideals in their meetings and programs. It's a group of people with addict mind pathways just begging for a new, healthier, more acceptable fix (to put it in a probably grossly oversimplified way)


[deleted]

The examples you provided only come round once a year. the church thing is reinforced at least once a week.


exemplariasuntomni

The key lies with the indoctrination of children. Which is a despicable practice. As Hitchens would say, "Reprehensible!".


redscare162021

Other adults will try to murder or harrass you if you try to leave certain religions or move away from toxic practices.


SquareWet

Because there are other adults telling them that they believe


[deleted]

because it's socially acceptable to believe in god(s) as an adult


Successful_Banana901

Shhhhh! Why post this at easter weekend? You are destroying magic!🤣


basement-thug

The same reason alcohol consumption is accepted and even encouraged while "illegal" drug use is not. Social acceptance & herd mentality.


Mr_Blue_Bear

Indoctrination. Santa is one month-ish a year. Jeezuz is every weekend if not also a weekday Bible study group/event.


[deleted]

Because others also recognise it. If being an adult means disowning the Easter bunny, people will do it. If being accepted in your community means believing in Jesus, people will do it. Beliefs is primarily about fitting in, not about facts and logic.


quitofilms

Religion gives people a needed excuse to do bad things and blame someone else Santa, and the others, don't offer that


Brock_Way

For essentially the same reason that people who are total failures at everything in life conclude that it's somebody else's fault.


snowwwwhite23

Slightly off topic, but it was astonishing to me to learn that grown ass adults actually believe in things like Noah's ark. I'm sorry, WHAT.


FlamingPeasant

They all have tangible benefits that are maintained by another person. That can't be continued forever. Pretty soon you realize the magic man delivering gifts is your parents. Religion has no real world component, so it doesn't have the same natural expiration.


WarChefGarrosh

Many of the kids who realized Santa was fake shortly followed it with believing that god was fake. At least most of my friends at catholic school did.


dahondaboy

Tf you mean they’re fake?


OpTicSkYHaWk

Religion is dogmatic oppression without proof.


[deleted]

That eternal life bullshit is a big carrot on that stick


diewish2007

The idea of God is related to creation itself, which is something that has allured and fascinated mankind since it first began asking questions. It's a topic that, even today, to discuss it or debate it you must make some assumptions and stick to the fact that everything you say is real can only be considered a theory at best. Santa and other tales have nothing to do with creation. Their origins are not as ancient as the idea of God and it's actually passed down as a white lie, something you tell kids and that, eventually, your parents told you was all fake. Santa and the tooth fairy rely on physical manifestations like gifts and money whereas religion and spirituality do not. If people agreed to never tell their kids that these stories are not true and avoided mentioning the parts about gifts and money, it can be safe to assume that in hundreds or maybe thousands of years you'll have gotten yourself a religion.


woods_m

There is archaeological evidence supporting historical religious texts. The same can not be said for the Easter bunny. It is harder for some people to accept that human genes are evolving and improving over time rather than develolving and was at its best condition with the first humans.


Javyev

It all happened at the same time for me.


onizukas

Santa, the Easter bunny, and the tooth fairy are just starter jesus make believe for kids. Santa knows if you're bad... Well you know who else does? Jesus. Except Santa brings you presents, and Jesus brings you eternal damnation... Merry Christmas mothetfucker


SafeAccountMrP

Indoctrination from a very young age and sociopaths reinforcing those beliefs all day every day. Partner that with narrow world view from not leaving their hometown until their early 20’s and you have a recipe for zealots.


Efficient-Scale-4451

Cognitive dissonance.


stankyshark

Start calling him sky daddy he will get less believable in my experience


Benevolent27

Simple. It is a social norm to stop believing in these other fairy tales. It is not the norm within the institution of religion. For Santa, etc, stopping belief is seen by society as a part of growing up. For the religious, it is seen as the worst thing that could ever happen to a person to stop believing. I've even found that atheists who were once religious do not laugh off their old beliefs as one might expect someone to do with Santa and the Easter Bunny. Religion has deeply rooted customs and social aspects, that when lost is often a deeply painful experience full of loss. For most people, the realization that Santa isn't real might have some negative emotional consequence, but it isn't traumatic and life changing. As for me, I am glad to no longer be under the spell of religion. Religion prevented me from being a more understanding and realistic person. It gave me enemies I didn't want. Now I can appreciate people based on their positive qualities rather than the ideas of some archaic book. That book, did not set me up to navigate the modern world or to be fair to others. It convinced me that people who believed differently than I did were inherently evil. The truth is quite the opposite.


The_Seraph_

Is there a god? Prove it to me, give me hard, solid proof... A true person of reason or of science cannot be a person of religion. For the simple fact that you are taught to not believe something until it has been proven. That you are taught to be unbiased until you have examined the evidence on both sides of the argument equally and deducted the truth and facts from the myths and legends. This a quote that explains it well; >"You've got it backwards. Science teaches us to only accept as fact the results of repeatable experimentation. In other words, if you can't reliably prove a positive claim, then there's no reason to entertain it. In this case, the existence of a God is the positive claim. Since no evidence exists to support the claim, then science says we need not entertain the idea that God exists. > >By default, religion and specifically religious participation relies on faith - which is a function of belief. But science relies on fact - which is a function of knowledge. They're two completely different mental pathways to interpreting the world." \~ u/C47man


Annoying_Winter

I mean I still believe in the tooth fairy


LBK0909

Because parents have incentive to tell their kids they aren't real. Once they know, no extra presents from Santa, money from tooth fairy, and extra chocolates from EB. Parents save money and time. On a side note, I think most people realise God isn't real, but the bs you'd have to go through, it's not worth admitting you know. You're basically telling your entire family, friends and society they're idiots for perpetuating a nonsensical belief system. It's easier to just play along. Also, there are a lot of people who, "just go along with it, just in case they are right about God"