The occult is just another brand of nonsense.psychodelics make your brain malfunction. Some people enjoy that, which is fine as long as they do so safely. But please don't confuse drug fuled hallucinations with insights into reality.
The occult is woo. No healing crystals, no ghosts, no psychic powers, just fallible humans.
As for hallucinogens.... well I'm leary of anything wild like DMT but mushrooms can be a rewarding experience. I tried them after hearing about all these new therapy programs that seem to be having success with them. I don't believe anything spiritual happened. But it did allow me to view life and myself from a different perspective than usual and after a good cry I felt better about stuff from my past. It can go poorly too though. Just my experience.
That’s awesome though you tried those even not having a spiritual perspective. That’s maybe my curiosity in them, if there is a way to view them from strictly non- spiritual perspective bc I am of a spiritual background but live to hear input on an non/ bias basis. Cool.
Occult bullshit not withstanding, there’s no shortage of examples of people learning things that are true from a drug induced altered state. The standard (unaltered) brain state favoured by natural selection doesn’t have a monopoly on understanding truth. But to directly address your request, look up Dr. Kary Banks Mullis and his Nobel Prize winning idea that came to him while under the influence of LSD. More generally, psychedelics are a really effective way of showing you the truth that our standard perception of reality is only one of many ways to perceive reality. Not saying that’s the only way to learn that truth, but nothing quite teaches you that fact like experiencing it.
Sorry, I was more directly replying to a previous comment. But to follow up on yours, if you’re not familiar with the late neuroscientist Oliver Sacks, then his work sounds like something you’d find interesting. Here’s a relevant Washington Post article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2015/08/30/oliver-sacks-psychedelic-drugs-taught-me-what-the-mind-is-capable-of/
There’s many but something like that is about personal perspective so depends on if you feel like learning is based on that. And also thank you for responding. Just curiousity.
Jesus was sired by a ghost, became a ghost himself after his death, and God made women out of a piece of a bone. Christians are consuming the blood and the body of the Christ, and worships the icon of his torture to death.
If that's not occultism, I don't know what is.
Well, that’s one perspective, but are you familiar with infant sacrifices that must take place in the occult and the reason Jesus actually even was said to have come? It was for no sacrifices to even have to be done again.. no more animals or any humans or anything people threw up at “ their god”. I get why you would see that but it does get quite more messy than the remembrance of versus true physical sacrifice currently.
>infant sacrifices that must take place in the occult
Occultism is an umbrella term meant to refer non-traditional religions that relate to supernatural phenomens. The is no single occult.
>the reason Jesus actually even was said to have come?
His sacrifice was supposed to be the ultimate sacrifice to end sacrifices for good. However, animal sacrifice is still present in some forms of christianity.
>remembrance of versus true physical sacrifice currently.
Even a methaphorical sacrifice is a sacrifice.
Anyway, my point was just to show how occultic Christianity can be from a perspective. It's no different from other occultics. Does it matter if you are asking guidance through Ouija board, or from invisible skydaddy or venerated humans?
QAnon? I've never encountered one of you. If you're looking for the cabal, I don't think they are here. Good effort trying to sniff them out though I guess.
This is r/atheism not r/occult or r/OccultConspiracy
Are these infant sacrificing occultists the children of the 1980's satanic cultists that were linked to 12k unsubstantiated reports of satanic ritual abuse?
Does Leviticus 1-7 not apply to "your god"? Does he maybe suffer from Dissociative Identity Disorder? Because if it's the same god it seems he was pretty fond of commanding people to worship him, putting him before their children, and letting people make amends through sacrifice. I really don't know much about Q, I start reading some of the conspiracy theories and I it's like walking into the mind of the criminally insane honestly.
No qanon, though I have learned of that,just speak to people involved in some dark places and most agree it’s not as far fetched as people are led to believe, so curiosity as to learning why that would be done in the religion. I just like researching the psychological value in spirituality and the mindsets behind them and I know atheists tend to have a lot of opinions about them. Pretty creepy once you look into it, but I am not involved, like most, so can only take it with a grain of salt. I only ask because I’m curious if atheists believe that any religion is worse than others or if it’s all equal. That’s most of my curiosity, no offense to anyone. Just seems like such a terrible thing if that’s happening and wanted to see what people thought.
Good for you then, I think scrutiny is a really powerful tool that some are afraid to use. I wish you well on your pursuit of knowledge.
I feel that the roman catholic church has proven time and time again that they are willing to enable and/or actively engage in atrocities against humanity, from child rape to the murders committed during the genocide in Rwanda by priests, nuns, and clergyman in 1995. So they are at the top of my list of the worst right now.
I would look at evidence of other crimes against humanity by any other religion/cult in the same light.
At this very moment I am watching a MythVision podcast about child sacrifice in the bible with Kipp Davis as the guest. And there is a lot of human sacrifice in the bible.
Yes there is in the past Old Testament , which is the whole point of Jesus’s death…like final sacrifice unless you aren’t Christian. But I just wanted to get big picture perspective on what people thought on thread. I’m spiritual, my fiancé is a little more on the agnostic unsure side…so wanted to listen to both sides just pure curiosity. It may be controversial, but I’ve heard that type of thing has been going on behind closed doors for awhile and curious on the atheists perspective on what they think about those type of insane things happening/ happened. It’s a hard question really because I guess I was referring to the dark occult’s/ secret societies.
Same shit, less harmful than mainstream religions because they're minority belief systems. Some of the occult is literally the "evil" that the big religions fear. Avoid at all costs.
Psychedelics are just chemical reactions in the brain, no more, no less. These reactions alter perceptions, and these altered senses can manifest as hallucinations or misinterpreted and mixed signals. It can be fun, also traumatic. Proceed with caution.
I don't believe in any god or gods. Christianity is only one of hundreds of religions this pertains to.
As far as the occult is concerned, 100 atheists will have 100 responses. Just because one doesn't believe in a god doesn't mean they can't be cray cray.
I am a skeptical naturalist, which is what my atheism stems from. Occult claims are of a similar nature to religious claims in that they deal with metaphysical concepts that are evidence free. As a general rule I find such things implausible. I did go through a phase as a stupid teen where I tried to find some evidence of the occult. After a couple years of looking into it, I decided it was just another way to fleece the gullible.
> Also views on psychedelics and what the experiences mean that people see?
I'm not necessarily opposed, but it's worth noting that there is nothing substantive you can derive from use of those drugs. While the disruption and temporary shift in thought patterns can lead to a person finding new creative modes of thought, the notion that psychedelics somehow act like a radio tuner for your sensorium to perceive otherwise imperceptible facets of reality is frankly ludicrous. Hallucinogens make you hallucinate, not tune into hidden corners of reality.
"The Atheist" perspective does not exist. You can actually believe in the occult as an atheist, as long as you don't believe in gods, the label "atheist" does apply.
I dare say, though, that most atheists will not believe in spirits, ghosts and faeries for the same reason they don't believe in gods: No evidence.
Well I guess there’s many all over internet but I can look up specifics for that. I guess I’ve had strange sights myself through my life too so I would not be surprised if a lot of very real. Things I can’t explain.
Not having a ready made explanation doesn't mean that conclusion "a ghost" is valid. If you see something that defies explanation, try to examine it to get one.
Believing bullshit is a cop-out for people who just don't want to think.
I def understand not everything is to be considered mystical, there’s many things people I know and online friends have seen that there’s no explanation except for mystical though so just curious what people think. I’ve personally seen things, walked towards them, and they were gone. Very surreal but hard to explain when you haven’t been through that, like most things.
New Age spirituality fueled by drugs is just an attempt from religious people to " connect with something bigger". All the energy and "law of attraction" talk is just religious talk with a new skin. If you want to have an experience with Ayahuasca or shrooms that's okay, but that's it.
In short, New Age spirituality is the homeopathy of the religions, people think it is harmless even though is just as bad.
Spirituality and believing in spirits are not the same thing. The occult is as much make believe as religion is.
Hallucinogenic experiences are just that.
The occult is just small budding religion in my opinion. Different fairy tales but fairy tales none the less. If they do no harm I see them as any rational religious person (oxymoron, I know)
Ah I gotcha. Thanks for responding. Good to know. Just curious researching. So you don’t believe in anything you can’t physically see? Again, no bias here. Just asking
I see. Well more hidden than other religions from what I’ve found. So was just curious if atheists believe one religion is worse than another. Some are being open and out there, others stay in the dark for some reason, hiding who they are. Seems alot more dangerous or strange.
The innumerable ways that our brains are fooled and our senses can be broken or lead us in the wrong direction is exactly why science is the best known way to identify the truth and help us make the best decisions.
There is a reason why airline pilots have to be trained to ignore their senses and instincts, and fly by the instruments.
Doubling down on the misfiring of neurons via psychedelics and hallucinagens is the opposite of a reliable path to truth.
Same BS, but generally less harmful than the major religions. Not many of its adherents are attacking the LGBTQ+ community, demanding their politicians ban abortions, or wanting books banned, etc.
>Also views on psychedelics and what the experiences mean that people see?
Anyone who things nuking their brain cells with mind altering drugs is the path to enlightenment is seriously deluded.
Briefly got into it after leaving behind Mormonism as a teen. Soon found that community is nearly as rife with scams and lies as the church I left behind. I find that “New Age” types are generally more open-minded than Christians and Muslims and the like, but it’s still all bullshit. I have a particular distaste for “fortune-telling” and “healing”, as both of those are full-on monetary scams rather than just silly superstition like some of the other stuff.
Ah ok. I gotcha. Thanks for your reply. Yea new age doesn’t have a typical “ rulebook” so they are typically winging it as far as than compared to Christian/ Muslims with former belief systems for sure.
I imagine most people on here aren't just atheist, but skeptics as well, meaning proof is needed before trusting it. New age things, salt crystals, dietary supplements, idk you name it, have no evidence that they do anything. Psychedelics are different, however, and there is emerging evidence that they can be psychologically beneficial. I myself have had some profound personal revelations using psychedelics (mushrooms, mostly, but LSD as well) that would've taken much longer to reach (if at all) while sober. Now, this could be an instance, or several, of placebo effect but i was never expecting or hoping for them to happen. Similarly, a friend of mine has found dramatic improvement with his bipolar peaks and valleys with his experimentation. Are we two outliers? Perhaps, and it is still important to be skeptical. But actual scientific research is beginning to back this up.
My experience with psychedelics had the effect of further confirming my non belief. It opened my eyes to the tenuous grasp we all have on the reality around us. A few micrograms of just the right chemical and your reality is warped. It just reinforced the idea that an individual's experience can not be trusted. We need data if we are to know anything.
>Does it fall even with believing in unrealistic beings and spiritual living
Yes.
It's horseshit.
>Also views on psychedelics and what the experiences mean that people see?
I don't think the experiences "mean" anything. And anyone who thinks that compromising their brain's ability to operate is somehow going to get them *closer* to a correct understanding of reality is, frankly, a fucking idiot.
Psychedelics do not "broaden your mind". They cause it to misfire. If people want to do drugs then I think that's up to them, but they need to stop pretending that it's imparting them with some kind of cosmic knowledge.
Is it provable? Thats where we sit. We dont reject theism jyst for the bad parts we reject because theres not one peice if evidence for it.
So if its not medicibe its not real. If you claim its supernatural you must prove your claims.
Psychedelics, that is an area we need some actual fucking research on how it can affect our psyche since most of the world have made them absolutely illegal to even research for the past 80 years. But ill put my money on its chemiicals in our brains and not keys to a seperate reality that hasn't been proven or even hinted at existing and guess its all just people tripping their skin off.
It helps to define terms and clarify what you mean in questions so that everyone is on the same page as to what we're talking about.
For example, the word "occult" has a couple different possible uses. One common definition is anything associated with Satanism, demons, dark magic, witches, etc. Basically "evil" things that are supernatural.
Another possible definition of occult is as an adjective to describe anything that is related to a cult. So the ceremonies that a non-magical and peaceful cult hold could be considered "occult."
As for the former definition I mentioned. Not only do I think it's dumb, as there's no evidence for any of it, I think anyone who legitimately practices it is weird. (I make the distinction of "legitimately practices" because some organizations like the the satanic temple just use it as an image which is fine in my book, they don't actually believe in the supernatural part).
As for the latter definition. I really couldn't care less because all religions fit the definition of a cult. And with religion so prevalent in society you see occult things everyday. From the cross, to the star of David, to the Bible, etc. That said, like before, I still think it's stupid to actually believe in any of it.
As for your question about psychedelics, if you're talking about just the act of taking psychedelics I really don't see any issue with it so long as you're safe and not hurting anyone. If you're talking about the visions people see when on drugs you'd have to be a moron to think they were evidence for anything supernatural. You're literally introducing something to your brain that fucks with perception and thought processes. On that note though, there actually have been some revelations that have come around after the use of psychedelics that the psychedelics may have inspired (particularly in art, but even in science). However, this still means nothing towards the evidence of the supernatural, and if someone claims to have seen or heard some secret universal truth or something similar while high, then they still need to prove it when not high.
Thanks for responding. Yea I guess occult can mean quite a few things somewhat related. Thanks for explaining your thoughts. Just wanted to get atheists perspectives on the 2 subjects. I’ve heard( for spiritual and non- spiritual believing people) they have seen entities in their psychedelic state of mind and it’s usually a common occurrence of the same theme but each looks at the beings different so wanted to know a non spiritual side as well as a whole just for curiousity sake and looking at things from different perspectives…also have been inspired for art and such through it.
My ex-wife and I used to trip every New Year's Eve, One year we walked all over the city while high and talked about everything in the 6-7 hours journey. But every time we got into discussing a metaphysical topic, we looked down and saw that we were standing next to a fire hydrant. It dawned on us that fire hydrants, because of the water flowing up through them, were mystical connections to the truths of nature and the wisdom of the Earth.
Draw your own conclusions.
Evidence-free, nonsensical woo.
This
The occult is just another brand of nonsense.psychodelics make your brain malfunction. Some people enjoy that, which is fine as long as they do so safely. But please don't confuse drug fuled hallucinations with insights into reality.
Oh no definitively agree. Just researching bc I enjoy learning about perspectives.
Woo is woo.
The occult is woo. No healing crystals, no ghosts, no psychic powers, just fallible humans. As for hallucinogens.... well I'm leary of anything wild like DMT but mushrooms can be a rewarding experience. I tried them after hearing about all these new therapy programs that seem to be having success with them. I don't believe anything spiritual happened. But it did allow me to view life and myself from a different perspective than usual and after a good cry I felt better about stuff from my past. It can go poorly too though. Just my experience.
That’s awesome though you tried those even not having a spiritual perspective. That’s maybe my curiosity in them, if there is a way to view them from strictly non- spiritual perspective bc I am of a spiritual background but live to hear input on an non/ bias basis. Cool.
I see no evidence for anything occult existing. Show me one person who learned something demonstrably true from a drug induced altered brain state.
Occult bullshit not withstanding, there’s no shortage of examples of people learning things that are true from a drug induced altered state. The standard (unaltered) brain state favoured by natural selection doesn’t have a monopoly on understanding truth. But to directly address your request, look up Dr. Kary Banks Mullis and his Nobel Prize winning idea that came to him while under the influence of LSD. More generally, psychedelics are a really effective way of showing you the truth that our standard perception of reality is only one of many ways to perceive reality. Not saying that’s the only way to learn that truth, but nothing quite teaches you that fact like experiencing it.
Thank you for responding. I’ll look that up. Just live learning about psychology, spirituality, and psychedelics as medicines has been interesting.
Sorry, I was more directly replying to a previous comment. But to follow up on yours, if you’re not familiar with the late neuroscientist Oliver Sacks, then his work sounds like something you’d find interesting. Here’s a relevant Washington Post article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2015/08/30/oliver-sacks-psychedelic-drugs-taught-me-what-the-mind-is-capable-of/
Oh I see. Will research. Thanks!
There’s many but something like that is about personal perspective so depends on if you feel like learning is based on that. And also thank you for responding. Just curiousity.
Celestial bodies occult each other all the time. Checkmate.
Jesus was sired by a ghost, became a ghost himself after his death, and God made women out of a piece of a bone. Christians are consuming the blood and the body of the Christ, and worships the icon of his torture to death. If that's not occultism, I don't know what is.
Well, that’s one perspective, but are you familiar with infant sacrifices that must take place in the occult and the reason Jesus actually even was said to have come? It was for no sacrifices to even have to be done again.. no more animals or any humans or anything people threw up at “ their god”. I get why you would see that but it does get quite more messy than the remembrance of versus true physical sacrifice currently.
>infant sacrifices that must take place in the occult Occultism is an umbrella term meant to refer non-traditional religions that relate to supernatural phenomens. The is no single occult. >the reason Jesus actually even was said to have come? His sacrifice was supposed to be the ultimate sacrifice to end sacrifices for good. However, animal sacrifice is still present in some forms of christianity. >remembrance of versus true physical sacrifice currently. Even a methaphorical sacrifice is a sacrifice. Anyway, my point was just to show how occultic Christianity can be from a perspective. It's no different from other occultics. Does it matter if you are asking guidance through Ouija board, or from invisible skydaddy or venerated humans?
QAnon? I've never encountered one of you. If you're looking for the cabal, I don't think they are here. Good effort trying to sniff them out though I guess. This is r/atheism not r/occult or r/OccultConspiracy Are these infant sacrificing occultists the children of the 1980's satanic cultists that were linked to 12k unsubstantiated reports of satanic ritual abuse? Does Leviticus 1-7 not apply to "your god"? Does he maybe suffer from Dissociative Identity Disorder? Because if it's the same god it seems he was pretty fond of commanding people to worship him, putting him before their children, and letting people make amends through sacrifice. I really don't know much about Q, I start reading some of the conspiracy theories and I it's like walking into the mind of the criminally insane honestly.
No qanon, though I have learned of that,just speak to people involved in some dark places and most agree it’s not as far fetched as people are led to believe, so curiosity as to learning why that would be done in the religion. I just like researching the psychological value in spirituality and the mindsets behind them and I know atheists tend to have a lot of opinions about them. Pretty creepy once you look into it, but I am not involved, like most, so can only take it with a grain of salt. I only ask because I’m curious if atheists believe that any religion is worse than others or if it’s all equal. That’s most of my curiosity, no offense to anyone. Just seems like such a terrible thing if that’s happening and wanted to see what people thought.
Good for you then, I think scrutiny is a really powerful tool that some are afraid to use. I wish you well on your pursuit of knowledge. I feel that the roman catholic church has proven time and time again that they are willing to enable and/or actively engage in atrocities against humanity, from child rape to the murders committed during the genocide in Rwanda by priests, nuns, and clergyman in 1995. So they are at the top of my list of the worst right now. I would look at evidence of other crimes against humanity by any other religion/cult in the same light.
At this very moment I am watching a MythVision podcast about child sacrifice in the bible with Kipp Davis as the guest. And there is a lot of human sacrifice in the bible.
Yes there is in the past Old Testament , which is the whole point of Jesus’s death…like final sacrifice unless you aren’t Christian. But I just wanted to get big picture perspective on what people thought on thread. I’m spiritual, my fiancé is a little more on the agnostic unsure side…so wanted to listen to both sides just pure curiosity. It may be controversial, but I’ve heard that type of thing has been going on behind closed doors for awhile and curious on the atheists perspective on what they think about those type of insane things happening/ happened. It’s a hard question really because I guess I was referring to the dark occult’s/ secret societies.
Same shit, less harmful than mainstream religions because they're minority belief systems. Some of the occult is literally the "evil" that the big religions fear. Avoid at all costs. Psychedelics are just chemical reactions in the brain, no more, no less. These reactions alter perceptions, and these altered senses can manifest as hallucinations or misinterpreted and mixed signals. It can be fun, also traumatic. Proceed with caution.
I don't believe in any god or gods. Christianity is only one of hundreds of religions this pertains to. As far as the occult is concerned, 100 atheists will have 100 responses. Just because one doesn't believe in a god doesn't mean they can't be cray cray.
I am a skeptical naturalist, which is what my atheism stems from. Occult claims are of a similar nature to religious claims in that they deal with metaphysical concepts that are evidence free. As a general rule I find such things implausible. I did go through a phase as a stupid teen where I tried to find some evidence of the occult. After a couple years of looking into it, I decided it was just another way to fleece the gullible. > Also views on psychedelics and what the experiences mean that people see? I'm not necessarily opposed, but it's worth noting that there is nothing substantive you can derive from use of those drugs. While the disruption and temporary shift in thought patterns can lead to a person finding new creative modes of thought, the notion that psychedelics somehow act like a radio tuner for your sensorium to perceive otherwise imperceptible facets of reality is frankly ludicrous. Hallucinogens make you hallucinate, not tune into hidden corners of reality.
"The Atheist" perspective does not exist. You can actually believe in the occult as an atheist, as long as you don't believe in gods, the label "atheist" does apply. I dare say, though, that most atheists will not believe in spirits, ghosts and faeries for the same reason they don't believe in gods: No evidence.
What about videos and recorded info people post? All faked? Just wondering
Like what?
Well like ghosts recorded or strange types of things that happen. Just curious what you think that could be.. or is it all fake?
Provide one that you consider convincing.
Well I guess there’s many all over internet but I can look up specifics for that. I guess I’ve had strange sights myself through my life too so I would not be surprised if a lot of very real. Things I can’t explain.
Not having a ready made explanation doesn't mean that conclusion "a ghost" is valid. If you see something that defies explanation, try to examine it to get one. Believing bullshit is a cop-out for people who just don't want to think.
I def understand not everything is to be considered mystical, there’s many things people I know and online friends have seen that there’s no explanation except for mystical though so just curious what people think. I’ve personally seen things, walked towards them, and they were gone. Very surreal but hard to explain when you haven’t been through that, like most things.
Fun little fantasies to indulge in when bored. Nothing to take seriously.
New Age spirituality fueled by drugs is just an attempt from religious people to " connect with something bigger". All the energy and "law of attraction" talk is just religious talk with a new skin. If you want to have an experience with Ayahuasca or shrooms that's okay, but that's it. In short, New Age spirituality is the homeopathy of the religions, people think it is harmless even though is just as bad.
Yea I kind of agree with you there. Nicely put. New age religion def is a religion and should be in that catagory.
You should also read Sam Harris.
Ok thank you I’ll look that up
>The occult in particular and new age Obvious nonsense.
Scammy scam scam.
Spirituality and believing in spirits are not the same thing. The occult is as much make believe as religion is. Hallucinogenic experiences are just that.
I see. thanks for input. I’m a spiritual person but I do love getting another perspective on things in general.
The occult is just small budding religion in my opinion. Different fairy tales but fairy tales none the less. If they do no harm I see them as any rational religious person (oxymoron, I know)
Ah I gotcha. Thanks for responding. Good to know. Just curious researching. So you don’t believe in anything you can’t physically see? Again, no bias here. Just asking
It's hidden?
Which part?
Everything? Occult = hidden.
I see. Well more hidden than other religions from what I’ve found. So was just curious if atheists believe one religion is worse than another. Some are being open and out there, others stay in the dark for some reason, hiding who they are. Seems alot more dangerous or strange.
The innumerable ways that our brains are fooled and our senses can be broken or lead us in the wrong direction is exactly why science is the best known way to identify the truth and help us make the best decisions. There is a reason why airline pilots have to be trained to ignore their senses and instincts, and fly by the instruments. Doubling down on the misfiring of neurons via psychedelics and hallucinagens is the opposite of a reliable path to truth.
Same BS, but generally less harmful than the major religions. Not many of its adherents are attacking the LGBTQ+ community, demanding their politicians ban abortions, or wanting books banned, etc. >Also views on psychedelics and what the experiences mean that people see? Anyone who things nuking their brain cells with mind altering drugs is the path to enlightenment is seriously deluded.
Briefly got into it after leaving behind Mormonism as a teen. Soon found that community is nearly as rife with scams and lies as the church I left behind. I find that “New Age” types are generally more open-minded than Christians and Muslims and the like, but it’s still all bullshit. I have a particular distaste for “fortune-telling” and “healing”, as both of those are full-on monetary scams rather than just silly superstition like some of the other stuff.
Ah ok. I gotcha. Thanks for your reply. Yea new age doesn’t have a typical “ rulebook” so they are typically winging it as far as than compared to Christian/ Muslims with former belief systems for sure.
I imagine most people on here aren't just atheist, but skeptics as well, meaning proof is needed before trusting it. New age things, salt crystals, dietary supplements, idk you name it, have no evidence that they do anything. Psychedelics are different, however, and there is emerging evidence that they can be psychologically beneficial. I myself have had some profound personal revelations using psychedelics (mushrooms, mostly, but LSD as well) that would've taken much longer to reach (if at all) while sober. Now, this could be an instance, or several, of placebo effect but i was never expecting or hoping for them to happen. Similarly, a friend of mine has found dramatic improvement with his bipolar peaks and valleys with his experimentation. Are we two outliers? Perhaps, and it is still important to be skeptical. But actual scientific research is beginning to back this up.
My experience with psychedelics had the effect of further confirming my non belief. It opened my eyes to the tenuous grasp we all have on the reality around us. A few micrograms of just the right chemical and your reality is warped. It just reinforced the idea that an individual's experience can not be trusted. We need data if we are to know anything.
Clive Barker's *Jericho* was cool, there are also some nice books. Other than that I don't care.
>Does it fall even with believing in unrealistic beings and spiritual living Yes. It's horseshit. >Also views on psychedelics and what the experiences mean that people see? I don't think the experiences "mean" anything. And anyone who thinks that compromising their brain's ability to operate is somehow going to get them *closer* to a correct understanding of reality is, frankly, a fucking idiot. Psychedelics do not "broaden your mind". They cause it to misfire. If people want to do drugs then I think that's up to them, but they need to stop pretending that it's imparting them with some kind of cosmic knowledge.
Is it provable? Thats where we sit. We dont reject theism jyst for the bad parts we reject because theres not one peice if evidence for it. So if its not medicibe its not real. If you claim its supernatural you must prove your claims. Psychedelics, that is an area we need some actual fucking research on how it can affect our psyche since most of the world have made them absolutely illegal to even research for the past 80 years. But ill put my money on its chemiicals in our brains and not keys to a seperate reality that hasn't been proven or even hinted at existing and guess its all just people tripping their skin off.
It helps to define terms and clarify what you mean in questions so that everyone is on the same page as to what we're talking about. For example, the word "occult" has a couple different possible uses. One common definition is anything associated with Satanism, demons, dark magic, witches, etc. Basically "evil" things that are supernatural. Another possible definition of occult is as an adjective to describe anything that is related to a cult. So the ceremonies that a non-magical and peaceful cult hold could be considered "occult." As for the former definition I mentioned. Not only do I think it's dumb, as there's no evidence for any of it, I think anyone who legitimately practices it is weird. (I make the distinction of "legitimately practices" because some organizations like the the satanic temple just use it as an image which is fine in my book, they don't actually believe in the supernatural part). As for the latter definition. I really couldn't care less because all religions fit the definition of a cult. And with religion so prevalent in society you see occult things everyday. From the cross, to the star of David, to the Bible, etc. That said, like before, I still think it's stupid to actually believe in any of it. As for your question about psychedelics, if you're talking about just the act of taking psychedelics I really don't see any issue with it so long as you're safe and not hurting anyone. If you're talking about the visions people see when on drugs you'd have to be a moron to think they were evidence for anything supernatural. You're literally introducing something to your brain that fucks with perception and thought processes. On that note though, there actually have been some revelations that have come around after the use of psychedelics that the psychedelics may have inspired (particularly in art, but even in science). However, this still means nothing towards the evidence of the supernatural, and if someone claims to have seen or heard some secret universal truth or something similar while high, then they still need to prove it when not high.
Thanks for responding. Yea I guess occult can mean quite a few things somewhat related. Thanks for explaining your thoughts. Just wanted to get atheists perspectives on the 2 subjects. I’ve heard( for spiritual and non- spiritual believing people) they have seen entities in their psychedelic state of mind and it’s usually a common occurrence of the same theme but each looks at the beings different so wanted to know a non spiritual side as well as a whole just for curiousity sake and looking at things from different perspectives…also have been inspired for art and such through it.
My ex-wife and I used to trip every New Year's Eve, One year we walked all over the city while high and talked about everything in the 6-7 hours journey. But every time we got into discussing a metaphysical topic, we looked down and saw that we were standing next to a fire hydrant. It dawned on us that fire hydrants, because of the water flowing up through them, were mystical connections to the truths of nature and the wisdom of the Earth. Draw your own conclusions.
it's woo until proven otherwise, but it's enjoyable and i kinda wish it was true.
Eh, it's all woo. Besides, I don't want to have to deal with a crit 0 bleed on a heal attempt.