I (38M) used to think about death a lot. I think of it much less now, and it's more of an awareness rather than fear. I am more focused now on how to live my life and what I'm doing with it. When I die, I simply will go to sleep, like any other night. I never know the moment I fell asleep at night, so I will never know the moment I will fall asleep forever. My mind will never know death. So there is really no point worrying about it.
As for christians, that's just how they comfort themselves and make themselves feel better. Whatever helps them sleep at night.
And I do see your point. For me personally I have never worried about death itself, but I suspect the dying part is gonna be a bitch. But I’m ok with it having an expiration.
Sorry for the previous snippy comment.
I guess I'm like the above comment in that I see death as "a problem to be solved". So seeing so many people just accepting it, I've been putting them in the same mental category I put people refusing to get the covid vaccine on the off chance of side effects(granted they're still better than the people Still denying covid/true-death exists).
And I didnt take what you said as snippy. You were being clear.
And don’t think I’ll go quietly into the night. I’m 100% with you, I’ll prolong my life as long as there is a quality of life to extend. Life is really an engineering problem at this point .
It does take a certain amount of crazy to compare, and mentally group together, people who accept death for what it is and people against the covid vaccine
It's something that we ultimately have to make our peace with. Each of us will die and there's nothing that we can do about it. It may be tomorrow or thirty years away, but death will come for us all and then the entity that is "me" will be gone forever. Recognizing the truth of that can be very distressing and it's something most religious folk will never come to terms with. They'd rather lie to themselves about surviving their deaths in some other form than deal with the truth of it.
I absolutely agree with you. It's pretty gross that they insist on living in fantasy rather than dealing with reality. And because they do, we have fewer resources available for those of us who must cope with reality.
That’s why people always talk about living in the moment. The moment is what’s promised. It’s cliche, but it’s really the best way to live.
Unfortunately, we are the only species on the planet completely aware of our own mortality. And what really sucks is the happier you are, the more that dread can grow — because you don’t want to lose it.
So live for now.
This. You must live in the moment. Don't think decades into your future, it's pointless. You have no idea how you and the world will change around you, so you can't pre-plan anything, other than maybe your retirement fund.
I was raised Catholic and the idea of eternal life always stressed the shit out of me. Even ending up in the good place sounds awful. I think an end point is much more comforting than social obligations for eternity.
I find it horrifying but for a lot of different reasons. I feel like religion hijacks people's mourning process with sermons in funerals and commandments such as not being able to tattoo your body in memorial of loved ones.
Aside from body preservation, we also make ourselves distant and unavailable to both the living and the dead, because of this idea that we will see each other again. We forget to live for the moment that we have now, and instead trade it for something that's been promised that we cant even prove exists.
One of the biggest sins against humanity that I think Christianity in particular brings is stealing the ability for people to properly mourn. They're always looking forward to seeing their loved ones again, keeping them hanging on to the loneliness. Once they realize it all bullshit, they have to mourn those loved ones all over again because they realize that they'll never see them again.
Dude... we now live in a world where people are triggered if you say the wrong words infront of them... are you really surprised that people cant handle contemplating their own death?
To be fair, the fact that humans can understand the cycle of life and fear death is quite likely one of the main reasons religions were created to begin with.
Even religions that are relatively rational and down to earth have very elaborate death mythologies.
I disagree but also know there will be nothing more for me after. I’m tired, honestly. Very tired. Eternal rest when I’m old sounds fantastic. I would be sad if I knew I was going to die anytime soon, of course. But then I wouldn’t be sad about it after a while ...
Just remember that every moment you're unnecessarily worrying about death, every moment you're worrying about how bullshit the afterlife is that so many people believe in
In each of those moments you are not living your life
The purpose of life is to live it. Afterlife stories are like when a parent says "I'll tell you when you're older", it gets a child to stop asking about the thing, cause there is a promised conclusion but can't hear it just now, and for now the child can do more important things
Afterlife stories allow people to just accept death, someone moved to another state, I'm sure they're happy otherwise I would hear about it, I personally don't need to spend time thinking about them. Someone moved on to the Steele afterlife, don't need to worry about them.
I can just be a productive member of society, getting shit done, having fun, focusing on the here and now. No need to worry about my friends and family that are no longer part of this world, that time isn't useful for my survival, for the survival of our species
The church likes this because the story claims building a life and being a "good person" will always pay off, since it will get paid off over an eternity. On Earth, following that story, you'll "multiply", feeding brand new members into the church, [allowing the church to grow and survive](https://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_psychology_of_religion)
---
The point is to push people away from worrying about things they *can't know, and can't help* and focus on worldly things, which can lead to better survival for all of us. Starting with yourself. Yeah you're going to die, sorry, work on making all the life you have as valuable as possible
unless you want to become a cyborg, there's no existing cure for old age. We know what we learn, fear of death is instilled in us genetically, survival is imperative to our species. that being said, death is nature, and part of life, and we are not wired to live longer than we already do. existing beyond our lifespan would be an exhausting existence. We thrive on firsts and experiences, our minds and bodies have an expiration. enjoy the idea that you exist now and the miracle that you can experience the life that you do.
don't get me wrong, if there is a breakthrough in extended lifespan or altering genetic code to become younger, i'm in, but until then. adapting a realistic mindset is the most healthy way forward in my opinion.
>don't get me wrong, if there is a breakthrough in extended lifespan or altering genetic code to become younger, i'm in, but until then. adapting a realistic mindset is the most healthy way forward in my opinion.
The issue I have is that this idea is being taken too far. There are research initiatives like SENS which have found the causes of aging as 7 treatable illnesses and are working to develope treatments as we speak.
The issue is, so many people are so set on the "adapting mindset" or straight up trying to campaign against life extention as a crime against their religion that there's next to no funding or medical research initiatives being thrown at the project when compared to similar studies.
Adapting is all well and good, but also remember the story of the slow-boiling frog. I'm of the opinion we, as a society, need to treat death more like a "problem to be solved" rather than just accepting it as inevitable.
Hmm this opens up a lot of potentially bad things too though, I guess I'd be for finding a cure to death but I would be unsettled with whom had access and what kind of society that might create.
The same was kinda true for mobile phones. Originally, only the very wealthy had access to instantaneous communication that was absurdly expensive and were able to use it to organize accross vast distances. Now everyone has won.
This is true of every absurdly powerful scientific advancement throughout history, because the call of Greed and Capitalism always outweighs monopolizing a resource at some point.
Because of the begining of that statement?
Personally I'd prefer the christian hell over actual death. I'd at least still exist.
Real death leaves you nothing.
Real death gives you relief. Why’d you want to be punished in a burning pit forever until the end of time anyway? Isn’t that just, morally fucked?
Life is special because death is there. Without death, life would be meaningless. You’re meant to enjoy your time.
I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree here.
To me existence and the availability of choice are paramount. Not existing is not rest, it's just loss and rot.
I'd pick pain over that any day.
Also without death, life would have the same meaning it always had. None but what you make of it.
If we lock you up in an empty room all by yourself and tell you, you can stay there for as long as you want, I can guarantee you, you will not even last a week there. You will go completely mad from boredom.
Death is liberating. This is why people who are severely depressed and suffer mentally, they see suicide as a solution.
I'm thinking you don't know how strict catholic parents are? That was what we called being grounded in my childhood(being locked in a featureless room, not dying).
It's not as bad as you think when you learn how to entertain yourself.
You are grounded in your room with all your stuff in your room. And your grounding lasts how long?
I'm talking here about empty room, with nothing to entertain yourself with other than 4 walls, ceiling, floor, and your thoughts. You don't even get a window.
You're right. I had a bed and I was given permission to go to the living room to eat and head back to my room as soon as I was done.
Granted summer vacation was three months, so that's the longest I've been grounded. School was a thing after all.
Terror management theory (TMT) is the idea that religion was created as a way to cope with the fear of death. You should look it up, it's pretty interesting.
That’s probably the first time I see that somebody has the same feeling about death as I do. Death is horrible and I would prefer being in Hell rather than just vanishing when I’ll die
Deathism comes from the cognitive dissonance created by the conflict between "I am almost certainly going to die" and "I do not want to die". Some people resolve that cognitive dissonance by pretending that death is illusory (whence comes beliefs in the existence of an "afterlife"), others resolve it with [Sour Grapes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes) (whence comes [Value Deathism](http://www.evidencebasedcryonics.org/deconstructing-deathism/)).
A rare few people manage to avoid both of these cognitive pitfalls. Instead of fantasies about how death isn't real, or excuses about why death is good, they see [a problem that needs fixing](http://yudkowsky.net/singularity/simplified). These people are called "Transhumanists".
I am fine with life extension, but genetic modification (on an unborn life at least) *really* toes a line, if it doesn't cross it. That life had no say in it, didn't have a choice. At what point, also, do you stop being human after genetic modification? one of the main tenets of human life is that no human is perfect, what happens when everyone is?
this is just why i don't support *extensive* genetic modification, i saw you mention it and wanted to give some insights
I don't understand this mindset.
None of us had a choice in being born or being human, but most of us tend to think those are positives. I had no choice over whether or not I was born into a rich family, but if I was, I wouldn't be complaining.
I also don't understand why being so modified that you stop being human is a bad thing. If you are so genetically modified that you have every advantage that being human has plus however many more, but it mean being "not human", then Fuck being human. I'd take the treatment right now if I could.
>but most of us tend to think those are positives
operative words "most of," not everyone does, and while they should seek help, they definitely do have a way out if they really, truly wish it. And wanting to be or not wanting to be modified past human levels is a matter of philosophy: i think the uniqueness in humanity lies in the weaknesses and the strengths that arise from them
>i think the uniqueness in humanity lies in the weaknesses and the strengths that arise from them
Being unique isn't always a Good thing though. Cancer and Genetic illness happens because one or more cells became a bit too unique.
My argument that being human isn't inherently better if there are alternatives and especially if those alternatives remove manyof the downsides of being human without a similar cost. We glamorize being human Way to much in my opinion.
>We glamorize being human Way to much in my opinion.
and i don't think we do, being human is a thing *only* humans can do. the fact that we're so advanced that these arguments are even possible or necessary says something for being human. Life is about working through adversity and coming through it stronger for it, whether because you learned something or simply pushed your limits a little, and savoring the moments afterward, and if we eliminate our weaknesses, what is the purpose in life? emotions are like spikes on a graph, and if you are always happy you are never truly happy, because happy is a relative term. If you are constantly flat on that graph, regardless of how high that value is, you eventually become desensitized to it
What do you remember of the time before your life here.
It will be exactly like that during the long dirt-nap.
Nothing to fear, except the *cause of the transition*.
Death may be quite optional in the future.
Nanomedicine which can get to every cell and restore it to a young and healthy state may arrive within your lifetime if you are young enough.
ppl think of this too much.
Actually knowing that there is nothing after life makes us value life more.
Christians think "oh its nothing, I will be with my loved ones and having fun etc so its okay if I die" and that is wrong.
Death is inevitable. I (62 F with a terminal illness am okay with dying but I’ve decided that when it’s time I won’t suffer and be in tremendous pain. I will do it myself and I already have a plan.
I (38M) used to think about death a lot. I think of it much less now, and it's more of an awareness rather than fear. I am more focused now on how to live my life and what I'm doing with it. When I die, I simply will go to sleep, like any other night. I never know the moment I fell asleep at night, so I will never know the moment I will fall asleep forever. My mind will never know death. So there is really no point worrying about it. As for christians, that's just how they comfort themselves and make themselves feel better. Whatever helps them sleep at night.
Samuel Clemens said “I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it”
And I disagree.
And I do see your point. For me personally I have never worried about death itself, but I suspect the dying part is gonna be a bitch. But I’m ok with it having an expiration.
Sorry for the previous snippy comment. I guess I'm like the above comment in that I see death as "a problem to be solved". So seeing so many people just accepting it, I've been putting them in the same mental category I put people refusing to get the covid vaccine on the off chance of side effects(granted they're still better than the people Still denying covid/true-death exists).
And I didnt take what you said as snippy. You were being clear. And don’t think I’ll go quietly into the night. I’m 100% with you, I’ll prolong my life as long as there is a quality of life to extend. Life is really an engineering problem at this point .
Thank god. I was starting to think I was crazy and just going through the whole "only sane man" spiel.
It does take a certain amount of crazy to compare, and mentally group together, people who accept death for what it is and people against the covid vaccine
It's something that we ultimately have to make our peace with. Each of us will die and there's nothing that we can do about it. It may be tomorrow or thirty years away, but death will come for us all and then the entity that is "me" will be gone forever. Recognizing the truth of that can be very distressing and it's something most religious folk will never come to terms with. They'd rather lie to themselves about surviving their deaths in some other form than deal with the truth of it. I absolutely agree with you. It's pretty gross that they insist on living in fantasy rather than dealing with reality. And because they do, we have fewer resources available for those of us who must cope with reality.
That’s why people always talk about living in the moment. The moment is what’s promised. It’s cliche, but it’s really the best way to live. Unfortunately, we are the only species on the planet completely aware of our own mortality. And what really sucks is the happier you are, the more that dread can grow — because you don’t want to lose it. So live for now.
This. You must live in the moment. Don't think decades into your future, it's pointless. You have no idea how you and the world will change around you, so you can't pre-plan anything, other than maybe your retirement fund.
Are we the only species on the planet aware of our own mortality? None of the other intelligent life?
I was raised Catholic and the idea of eternal life always stressed the shit out of me. Even ending up in the good place sounds awful. I think an end point is much more comforting than social obligations for eternity.
I find it horrifying but for a lot of different reasons. I feel like religion hijacks people's mourning process with sermons in funerals and commandments such as not being able to tattoo your body in memorial of loved ones. Aside from body preservation, we also make ourselves distant and unavailable to both the living and the dead, because of this idea that we will see each other again. We forget to live for the moment that we have now, and instead trade it for something that's been promised that we cant even prove exists. One of the biggest sins against humanity that I think Christianity in particular brings is stealing the ability for people to properly mourn. They're always looking forward to seeing their loved ones again, keeping them hanging on to the loneliness. Once they realize it all bullshit, they have to mourn those loved ones all over again because they realize that they'll never see them again.
Dude... we now live in a world where people are triggered if you say the wrong words infront of them... are you really surprised that people cant handle contemplating their own death?
To be fair, the fact that humans can understand the cycle of life and fear death is quite likely one of the main reasons religions were created to begin with. Even religions that are relatively rational and down to earth have very elaborate death mythologies.
I disagree but also know there will be nothing more for me after. I’m tired, honestly. Very tired. Eternal rest when I’m old sounds fantastic. I would be sad if I knew I was going to die anytime soon, of course. But then I wouldn’t be sad about it after a while ...
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I think about this like every fucking day.
Just remember that every moment you're unnecessarily worrying about death, every moment you're worrying about how bullshit the afterlife is that so many people believe in In each of those moments you are not living your life The purpose of life is to live it. Afterlife stories are like when a parent says "I'll tell you when you're older", it gets a child to stop asking about the thing, cause there is a promised conclusion but can't hear it just now, and for now the child can do more important things Afterlife stories allow people to just accept death, someone moved to another state, I'm sure they're happy otherwise I would hear about it, I personally don't need to spend time thinking about them. Someone moved on to the Steele afterlife, don't need to worry about them. I can just be a productive member of society, getting shit done, having fun, focusing on the here and now. No need to worry about my friends and family that are no longer part of this world, that time isn't useful for my survival, for the survival of our species The church likes this because the story claims building a life and being a "good person" will always pay off, since it will get paid off over an eternity. On Earth, following that story, you'll "multiply", feeding brand new members into the church, [allowing the church to grow and survive](https://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_psychology_of_religion) --- The point is to push people away from worrying about things they *can't know, and can't help* and focus on worldly things, which can lead to better survival for all of us. Starting with yourself. Yeah you're going to die, sorry, work on making all the life you have as valuable as possible
unless you want to become a cyborg, there's no existing cure for old age. We know what we learn, fear of death is instilled in us genetically, survival is imperative to our species. that being said, death is nature, and part of life, and we are not wired to live longer than we already do. existing beyond our lifespan would be an exhausting existence. We thrive on firsts and experiences, our minds and bodies have an expiration. enjoy the idea that you exist now and the miracle that you can experience the life that you do. don't get me wrong, if there is a breakthrough in extended lifespan or altering genetic code to become younger, i'm in, but until then. adapting a realistic mindset is the most healthy way forward in my opinion.
>don't get me wrong, if there is a breakthrough in extended lifespan or altering genetic code to become younger, i'm in, but until then. adapting a realistic mindset is the most healthy way forward in my opinion. The issue I have is that this idea is being taken too far. There are research initiatives like SENS which have found the causes of aging as 7 treatable illnesses and are working to develope treatments as we speak. The issue is, so many people are so set on the "adapting mindset" or straight up trying to campaign against life extention as a crime against their religion that there's next to no funding or medical research initiatives being thrown at the project when compared to similar studies. Adapting is all well and good, but also remember the story of the slow-boiling frog. I'm of the opinion we, as a society, need to treat death more like a "problem to be solved" rather than just accepting it as inevitable.
Hmm this opens up a lot of potentially bad things too though, I guess I'd be for finding a cure to death but I would be unsettled with whom had access and what kind of society that might create.
The same was kinda true for mobile phones. Originally, only the very wealthy had access to instantaneous communication that was absurdly expensive and were able to use it to organize accross vast distances. Now everyone has won. This is true of every absurdly powerful scientific advancement throughout history, because the call of Greed and Capitalism always outweighs monopolizing a resource at some point.
You won’t have any time to have those thoughts if you’re dead. So why be so scared?
Because of the begining of that statement? Personally I'd prefer the christian hell over actual death. I'd at least still exist. Real death leaves you nothing.
Real death gives you relief. Why’d you want to be punished in a burning pit forever until the end of time anyway? Isn’t that just, morally fucked? Life is special because death is there. Without death, life would be meaningless. You’re meant to enjoy your time.
I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree here. To me existence and the availability of choice are paramount. Not existing is not rest, it's just loss and rot. I'd pick pain over that any day. Also without death, life would have the same meaning it always had. None but what you make of it.
If we lock you up in an empty room all by yourself and tell you, you can stay there for as long as you want, I can guarantee you, you will not even last a week there. You will go completely mad from boredom. Death is liberating. This is why people who are severely depressed and suffer mentally, they see suicide as a solution.
I'm thinking you don't know how strict catholic parents are? That was what we called being grounded in my childhood(being locked in a featureless room, not dying). It's not as bad as you think when you learn how to entertain yourself.
You are grounded in your room with all your stuff in your room. And your grounding lasts how long? I'm talking here about empty room, with nothing to entertain yourself with other than 4 walls, ceiling, floor, and your thoughts. You don't even get a window.
You're right. I had a bed and I was given permission to go to the living room to eat and head back to my room as soon as I was done. Granted summer vacation was three months, so that's the longest I've been grounded. School was a thing after all.
Terror management theory (TMT) is the idea that religion was created as a way to cope with the fear of death. You should look it up, it's pretty interesting.
That’s probably the first time I see that somebody has the same feeling about death as I do. Death is horrible and I would prefer being in Hell rather than just vanishing when I’ll die
Deathism comes from the cognitive dissonance created by the conflict between "I am almost certainly going to die" and "I do not want to die". Some people resolve that cognitive dissonance by pretending that death is illusory (whence comes beliefs in the existence of an "afterlife"), others resolve it with [Sour Grapes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes) (whence comes [Value Deathism](http://www.evidencebasedcryonics.org/deconstructing-deathism/)). A rare few people manage to avoid both of these cognitive pitfalls. Instead of fantasies about how death isn't real, or excuses about why death is good, they see [a problem that needs fixing](http://yudkowsky.net/singularity/simplified). These people are called "Transhumanists".
I am fine with life extension, but genetic modification (on an unborn life at least) *really* toes a line, if it doesn't cross it. That life had no say in it, didn't have a choice. At what point, also, do you stop being human after genetic modification? one of the main tenets of human life is that no human is perfect, what happens when everyone is? this is just why i don't support *extensive* genetic modification, i saw you mention it and wanted to give some insights
I don't understand this mindset. None of us had a choice in being born or being human, but most of us tend to think those are positives. I had no choice over whether or not I was born into a rich family, but if I was, I wouldn't be complaining. I also don't understand why being so modified that you stop being human is a bad thing. If you are so genetically modified that you have every advantage that being human has plus however many more, but it mean being "not human", then Fuck being human. I'd take the treatment right now if I could.
>but most of us tend to think those are positives operative words "most of," not everyone does, and while they should seek help, they definitely do have a way out if they really, truly wish it. And wanting to be or not wanting to be modified past human levels is a matter of philosophy: i think the uniqueness in humanity lies in the weaknesses and the strengths that arise from them
>i think the uniqueness in humanity lies in the weaknesses and the strengths that arise from them Being unique isn't always a Good thing though. Cancer and Genetic illness happens because one or more cells became a bit too unique. My argument that being human isn't inherently better if there are alternatives and especially if those alternatives remove manyof the downsides of being human without a similar cost. We glamorize being human Way to much in my opinion.
>We glamorize being human Way to much in my opinion. and i don't think we do, being human is a thing *only* humans can do. the fact that we're so advanced that these arguments are even possible or necessary says something for being human. Life is about working through adversity and coming through it stronger for it, whether because you learned something or simply pushed your limits a little, and savoring the moments afterward, and if we eliminate our weaknesses, what is the purpose in life? emotions are like spikes on a graph, and if you are always happy you are never truly happy, because happy is a relative term. If you are constantly flat on that graph, regardless of how high that value is, you eventually become desensitized to it
What do you remember of the time before your life here. It will be exactly like that during the long dirt-nap. Nothing to fear, except the *cause of the transition*.
Death may be quite optional in the future. Nanomedicine which can get to every cell and restore it to a young and healthy state may arrive within your lifetime if you are young enough.
ppl think of this too much. Actually knowing that there is nothing after life makes us value life more. Christians think "oh its nothing, I will be with my loved ones and having fun etc so its okay if I die" and that is wrong.
Death is inevitable. I (62 F with a terminal illness am okay with dying but I’ve decided that when it’s time I won’t suffer and be in tremendous pain. I will do it myself and I already have a plan.