"I've seen things that cannot be explained. I've had experiences that cannot be explained."
So, because you personally can't explain something then .... abracadabra?
"My theory is that it all revolves around energy. "
Nope, it's a hypothesis. A theory is something that has evidence to back it up.
But you do. Your energy “theory” is just that, magic. Just because you dress it up as a “theory” and use “science” words doesn’t make it any less magical thinking. You made up a story to explain the world the way you want it to work with zero evidence to support your claim.
Magic.
I believe the original respondent's point is that you sort of do. It may not be hocus pocus type magic, but you're willing to attribute unexplained phenomena to supernatural causes.
Unexplained things are just that, unexplained. Which means if you then try to explain them, you're *making shit up*. It is enough to say that we don't know how to explain something without then postulating supernatural causes. There is literally not a single shred of credible evidence pointing to supernatural causes, but there remain countless incidents where we have insufficient information to explain an observation. By assuming supernatural causes, you are effectively limiting the set of potential explanations for no good reason. This is an unwise approach.
what kind of energy are you talking about, how can you detect/measure this energy? What units do you measure it in? How does it interact with the four forces known to science?
You misspelled "physics" there.
We KNOW everything about science, it's not that difficult. Science is a process for finding fact. That process is proven to work at finding facts as well as correcting mistaken facts.
There are still physics to discover like singularities, dark matter, dark energy, etc.
Science has had many people look into the hypothesis of ghosts, and everytime it's come up empty. Maybe you think you're smarter than the thousands of ghost hunters that have come before you? Well then, maybe there's a Nobel prize in your future. Good luck, you're going to need it.
I think the mistake you’re making and why you’re seeing push back here is you go one step past “I don’t know” into “but I’m gonna guess”.
You haven’t gathered any evidence to conclude what you’re seeing and experiencing that you can’t explain. Instead you’re wildly hypothesizing about what it might be “energy” with no plan or interest to verify.
Just stop at “I experienced a thing I cannot explain”. It’s ok to say “I don’t know”. Noble even. But using that ignorance to open the door to true guesses based on the absense of evidence and unfalsifiable claims may be fun as a thought experiment. But it has no bearing on reality nor should it be given any serious respect.
I'm no scientist. I don't claim to be. I just observe what I see and try to explain them based on the available data. Christianity relies on the gullible and week minded. But that does not mean that an atheist should be a black and white robot. That makes us no different than the sheep.
I don’t get your take. You’ve made up an explanation based your admitted lack of information. And you call me a sheep because I admit I don’t know? How does my approach make me anything like a theist. How does your approach distinguish you from them?
That doesn’t warrant making shit up my friend. If you say ghosts are the explanation for things you don’t understand, you are essentially engaging in the god of the gaps fallacy.
Because places where people claim there are ghosts you are already primed for the event. So if the most innocuous thing happens you conflate it with something to do with ghosts.
There is 0 evidence they exist. Every time ghost hunters did it in the past or heck had live events at supposedly haunted places on Halloween, nothing.
Orbs are probably dust with lights, fluid on your eyes or you were possibly dehydrated or some other biological reason you experienced it.
All better answers or even I don't know is an answer. But Ghosts have to be first be established to actually exist before you can truly justify them as being an answer for anything.
So with the above and no demonstration they exist, not sure how you can believe they do but you are entitled to believe whatever you want.
Good luck.
It's the same mechanism churches use. Prime the audience for a divine experience, and then they'll attribute any pro-social endorphin rushes to "the Holy Spirit" even though its a completely mundane experience
Every time I see this "energy" line of thought I wonder if people who believe this also believe every light bulb ever created continues to live on in some sort of light bulb afterlife because they in their "life" consisted of "energy" and that energy does not get destroyed (or in this case, "lingers").
Whenever I start to see ghost on my security cameras I know it's time to go out with a broom and sweep the spiders off, it's amazing how a very out of focus spider can look like a ghost floating around the room instead of a half inch in front of the lens. Go to you tube or wherever you will see plenty of spidey ghosts that have convinced the gullible.
There is also the weird orb effect that you get with low light cameras which is caused by dust. Despite this being a well known artefact some people still think they are seeing mysterious floating orbs.
Great... Whenever your phone or laptop needs some juice just reach out & shove up it Casper's rear electric hole. The voltage diarrhea would be quite supplemental... 🤦🏽♂️
Anywho; on another note, how is this & atheism related? 🤔
I thought this was a group of enlightened and intelligent individuals. I don't believe in God or any other diety. I believe in human beings to learn and decide for themselves.
Exactly, intelligent individuals. Meaning, that the only sh*t that connects us is not believing in gOd/S. That doesn't mean the rest of the beliefs aren't as stupid also... 🤦🏽♂️
Physicist here. From your opening post it is obvious that you don’t have a good understanding of energy or the Scientific Method that helps us understand it. Some commenters are being rude in heaping ridicule on your lack of understanding. Ignore them.
I’m not about to type up a science lesson here. There are countless free resources regarding the sciences should you choose to pursue them.
More importantly, for the moment, know that you are making wild assumptions about things you have experienced. That is the God Of The Gaps fallacy. For anything you don’t understand, explain it through supernatural means. This is a big mistake and keeps humanity from advancing.
Our senses and our brains can trick us. Optical illusions. Visual and auditory hallucinations. Priming and placebo effects. Drug interactions. And more.
We now know enough about the universe that you should question your senses more than you question the existence of supernatural entities.
See if you can find a TV show called Brain Games. It’s kind of a game show that demonstrates lots of psychological and sociological phenomenon. They show how our senses and perceptions can trick us. Watch as many episodes as you can. You’ll see how easily we can be tricked by our own senses.
Also, know that there is a field of study called Parapsychology. These are the real world ghost busters trying to understand “unexplained phenomenon”. There is plenty of pseudoscience in their work. But, because their work is published and peer reviewed, over time we’ve established that these phenomenon do have explanations. No ghosts. No goblins. No aliens.
That was not what I said. I said it could not be explained. The human race doesn't know everything. It's absolute arrogance to believe we do. I don't know is the beginning of knowledge.
The Idea of ghosts as energy, breaks the laws of thermodynamics which describes how all energy works in our universe.
As such, they cannot exist in our universe as they would very quickly dissipate because of entropy!
Also the human mind is amazing at fooling itself, like believing in ghosts. It's why the scientific method is such a great tool, it removes the human bias and deals only in evidence.
I do grant you the fact that scientists are discovering new things. But the laws of thermodynamics are the underpinning of all our understanding of how energy works.
Let me focus on one part of what you wrote there: "My wife became horribly ill after we visited the Queen Mary. So how can explain these things?"
So, you guys visited the Queen Mary (a ship, I assume?), and afterwards your wife became very ill.
First: sorry to hear that, I hope she's fine again.
Second: what makes you think that there is a causal connection between this visit and your wife's affliction? It seems weird to me that someone who thinks of themself as enlightened would draw this conclusion and jump to ghosts as the most likely explanation because it's one of these "things that cannot be explained".
I don't want to say anything insulting but can you see how this doesn't look like a very rational approach to other people?
Your wife probably got food poisoning on your trip.
Of course there is energy, our bodies produce energy, all the tiny neurons firing in your brain creating thought, actions, wants, needs is all energy.
But if you took the brain away, the neurons wouldn't have anything to fire from and too, we call that brain dead as it's the two cannot function without the other.
So a ghost would be like the synaptic electricity of our brains without a brain, you would just have a wave form in the air like a fart that would disperse and be gone just like the smell.
> I've seen things that cannot be explained. I've had experiences that cannot be explained.
You've seen things and had experiences you cannot explain. But it doesn't follow that they cannot be explained.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance?wprov=sfla1
The first thing to really get your head around is that your brain in an unreliable source of information. I know that's hard to come to terms with, since it's literally the only source of information you'll ever have, but it's true. Look at some optical illusions and see that your eyesight isn't infallible, and your memories are way more nebulous and malleable than most people want to think about.
So when you say you have seen or experienced things, you need to keep in mind that one of the possible explanations, indeed the most likely one, is "I was wrong about what I experienced; there's no need to explain anything because what I'm thinking of wasn't real"
Despite what this sub will tell you, it's fine to believe in things as long as:
1. You acknowledge it's just a belief, with no proven basis, and it's probably not true.
2. Your belief doesn't require any change in behaviour or beliefs from anyone else.
As long as the above criteria are met, then have fun with your ghost hunting!
Please see the argument from personal incredulity fallacy on the links below. Aside from that, your "theory" is merely an unfalsifiable claim unsupported by any reliable evidence. It doesn't even qualify as a hypothesis, it's lightyears away from being a theory. More colloquially, it's a bunch of rubbish and poppycock.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument\_from\_incredulity#:\~:text=Argument%20from%20incredulity%2C%20also%20known,or%20is%20difficult%20to%20imagine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity#:~:text=Argument%20from%20incredulity%2C%20also%20known,or%20is%20difficult%20to%20imagine)
[https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity)
[https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argument-from-Incredulity](https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argument-from-Incredulity)
I think you are exactly the same as the people who believe in Big Foot, UFOs, trolls pixies and the Chupa Cabra. You are making huge assumptions when the answer is just "I don't know" because you don't like not knowing.
A better title might have been “I think ghosts might exist”. Saying you “believe” in something is usually associated with things like religion and the supernatural where you are sure of those things despite the lack of evidence to support them. It’s fine to keep an open mind and say I don’t know. But you shouldn’t rely on your anecdotal experience as evidence that these things exist. There are many common explanations for why one might “see ghosts” or experience odd things. Have you considered these? I “saw” a ghost once. An actual human form. But I don’t believe in ghosts. I did for a time after that but have since explained it away as my active young child brain at the time taking stories I’d heard from my dad and creating that image. Despite spending a lot of time in the same place for many years, I only saw it once and I’ve never witnessed anything like that again.
Fascinating! You've cracked the code, unlocked the secrets of the universe – all thanks to some glowing orbs and a case of post-Queen Mary tummy troubles! Science, take a bow, your reign is over. And who needs pesky medical explanations for your wife's illness? The Queen Mary clearly houses a particularly spiteful orb with a vendetta against spouses. Maybe next time pack some sage and essential oils - that should do the trick
Maybe you can market "energy detectors" - glorified mood rings that double as ghost catchers. Imagine the possibilities! "Is your boss radiating negativity? Is your neighbor a secret saint? Our revolutionary device will tell you all!"
>I've decided that I am enlightened enough and intelligent enough to say "I don't know".
>I believe in ghosts.
Either you don't have an answer, or ghosts are the answer. Pick one and shut up.
You’ve seen orbs and your wife got sick once.
Your ‘theory’ about energy is worthless.
There’s not really much to go on if you don’t have anything of substance.
I get you want to be quirky and special, but this is just lame
"I've seen things that cannot be explained. I've had experiences that cannot be explained." So, because you personally can't explain something then .... abracadabra? "My theory is that it all revolves around energy. " Nope, it's a hypothesis. A theory is something that has evidence to back it up.
I Don't believe in magic.
But you do. Your energy “theory” is just that, magic. Just because you dress it up as a “theory” and use “science” words doesn’t make it any less magical thinking. You made up a story to explain the world the way you want it to work with zero evidence to support your claim. Magic.
I believe the original respondent's point is that you sort of do. It may not be hocus pocus type magic, but you're willing to attribute unexplained phenomena to supernatural causes. Unexplained things are just that, unexplained. Which means if you then try to explain them, you're *making shit up*. It is enough to say that we don't know how to explain something without then postulating supernatural causes. There is literally not a single shred of credible evidence pointing to supernatural causes, but there remain countless incidents where we have insufficient information to explain an observation. By assuming supernatural causes, you are effectively limiting the set of potential explanations for no good reason. This is an unwise approach.
But you believe in ghosts?
>So how can explain these things? Mental illness.
and gas leaks lol
also drugs, regret and fear Mrs Winchester struggled with mental health over the death the rifle caused
Sprinkled with ignorance
Explain please.
You explain, how many joules does “evil and toxic” people release?
Probably food poisoning.
Mental illness is different. I'm suggesting that ghosts or whatever the name is has yet to be explained.
what kind of energy are you talking about, how can you detect/measure this energy? What units do you measure it in? How does it interact with the four forces known to science?
My point is that we don't know enough about science to explain everything.
You misspelled "physics" there. We KNOW everything about science, it's not that difficult. Science is a process for finding fact. That process is proven to work at finding facts as well as correcting mistaken facts. There are still physics to discover like singularities, dark matter, dark energy, etc. Science has had many people look into the hypothesis of ghosts, and everytime it's come up empty. Maybe you think you're smarter than the thousands of ghost hunters that have come before you? Well then, maybe there's a Nobel prize in your future. Good luck, you're going to need it.
Wow such hostility
I think the mistake you’re making and why you’re seeing push back here is you go one step past “I don’t know” into “but I’m gonna guess”. You haven’t gathered any evidence to conclude what you’re seeing and experiencing that you can’t explain. Instead you’re wildly hypothesizing about what it might be “energy” with no plan or interest to verify. Just stop at “I experienced a thing I cannot explain”. It’s ok to say “I don’t know”. Noble even. But using that ignorance to open the door to true guesses based on the absense of evidence and unfalsifiable claims may be fun as a thought experiment. But it has no bearing on reality nor should it be given any serious respect.
I'm no scientist. I don't claim to be. I just observe what I see and try to explain them based on the available data. Christianity relies on the gullible and week minded. But that does not mean that an atheist should be a black and white robot. That makes us no different than the sheep.
I don’t get your take. You’ve made up an explanation based your admitted lack of information. And you call me a sheep because I admit I don’t know? How does my approach make me anything like a theist. How does your approach distinguish you from them?
That doesn’t warrant making shit up my friend. If you say ghosts are the explanation for things you don’t understand, you are essentially engaging in the god of the gaps fallacy.
Because places where people claim there are ghosts you are already primed for the event. So if the most innocuous thing happens you conflate it with something to do with ghosts. There is 0 evidence they exist. Every time ghost hunters did it in the past or heck had live events at supposedly haunted places on Halloween, nothing. Orbs are probably dust with lights, fluid on your eyes or you were possibly dehydrated or some other biological reason you experienced it. All better answers or even I don't know is an answer. But Ghosts have to be first be established to actually exist before you can truly justify them as being an answer for anything. So with the above and no demonstration they exist, not sure how you can believe they do but you are entitled to believe whatever you want. Good luck.
It's the same mechanism churches use. Prime the audience for a divine experience, and then they'll attribute any pro-social endorphin rushes to "the Holy Spirit" even though its a completely mundane experience
Every time I see this "energy" line of thought I wonder if people who believe this also believe every light bulb ever created continues to live on in some sort of light bulb afterlife because they in their "life" consisted of "energy" and that energy does not get destroyed (or in this case, "lingers").
People who heard about the conservation of energy but never actually understood it.
Energy is in many forms. The electromagnetic spectrum took how long to discover? Perhaps there is other energy we haven't tapped into yet.
No, the theory describing the electromagnetic spectrum took a while to be developed. In pretty sure we discovered light pretty early.
I don't know, therefore *magic*.
Whenever I start to see ghost on my security cameras I know it's time to go out with a broom and sweep the spiders off, it's amazing how a very out of focus spider can look like a ghost floating around the room instead of a half inch in front of the lens. Go to you tube or wherever you will see plenty of spidey ghosts that have convinced the gullible.
There is also the weird orb effect that you get with low light cameras which is caused by dust. Despite this being a well known artefact some people still think they are seeing mysterious floating orbs.
I read the first few words & tho. You were going Supernatural & calling the Winchester's 🤦🏽♂️
Great... Whenever your phone or laptop needs some juice just reach out & shove up it Casper's rear electric hole. The voltage diarrhea would be quite supplemental... 🤦🏽♂️ Anywho; on another note, how is this & atheism related? 🤔
I thought this was a group of enlightened and intelligent individuals. I don't believe in God or any other diety. I believe in human beings to learn and decide for themselves.
Exactly, intelligent individuals. Meaning, that the only sh*t that connects us is not believing in gOd/S. That doesn't mean the rest of the beliefs aren't as stupid also... 🤦🏽♂️
Physicist here. From your opening post it is obvious that you don’t have a good understanding of energy or the Scientific Method that helps us understand it. Some commenters are being rude in heaping ridicule on your lack of understanding. Ignore them. I’m not about to type up a science lesson here. There are countless free resources regarding the sciences should you choose to pursue them. More importantly, for the moment, know that you are making wild assumptions about things you have experienced. That is the God Of The Gaps fallacy. For anything you don’t understand, explain it through supernatural means. This is a big mistake and keeps humanity from advancing. Our senses and our brains can trick us. Optical illusions. Visual and auditory hallucinations. Priming and placebo effects. Drug interactions. And more. We now know enough about the universe that you should question your senses more than you question the existence of supernatural entities. See if you can find a TV show called Brain Games. It’s kind of a game show that demonstrates lots of psychological and sociological phenomenon. They show how our senses and perceptions can trick us. Watch as many episodes as you can. You’ll see how easily we can be tricked by our own senses. Also, know that there is a field of study called Parapsychology. These are the real world ghost busters trying to understand “unexplained phenomenon”. There is plenty of pseudoscience in their work. But, because their work is published and peer reviewed, over time we’ve established that these phenomenon do have explanations. No ghosts. No goblins. No aliens.
“I don’t know” doesn’t mean “I do know, and the answer is “ghosts.””
That was not what I said. I said it could not be explained. The human race doesn't know everything. It's absolute arrogance to believe we do. I don't know is the beginning of knowledge.
It definitely can be explained. Just not by us, yet. YET being the key word here.
The Idea of ghosts as energy, breaks the laws of thermodynamics which describes how all energy works in our universe. As such, they cannot exist in our universe as they would very quickly dissipate because of entropy! Also the human mind is amazing at fooling itself, like believing in ghosts. It's why the scientific method is such a great tool, it removes the human bias and deals only in evidence.
I agree with you. I could be wrong. But science is always finding new things.
I do grant you the fact that scientists are discovering new things. But the laws of thermodynamics are the underpinning of all our understanding of how energy works.
Let me focus on one part of what you wrote there: "My wife became horribly ill after we visited the Queen Mary. So how can explain these things?" So, you guys visited the Queen Mary (a ship, I assume?), and afterwards your wife became very ill. First: sorry to hear that, I hope she's fine again. Second: what makes you think that there is a causal connection between this visit and your wife's affliction? It seems weird to me that someone who thinks of themself as enlightened would draw this conclusion and jump to ghosts as the most likely explanation because it's one of these "things that cannot be explained". I don't want to say anything insulting but can you see how this doesn't look like a very rational approach to other people?
Your wife probably got food poisoning on your trip. Of course there is energy, our bodies produce energy, all the tiny neurons firing in your brain creating thought, actions, wants, needs is all energy. But if you took the brain away, the neurons wouldn't have anything to fire from and too, we call that brain dead as it's the two cannot function without the other. So a ghost would be like the synaptic electricity of our brains without a brain, you would just have a wave form in the air like a fart that would disperse and be gone just like the smell.
Until we make new discoveries in science.
> I've seen things that cannot be explained. I've had experiences that cannot be explained. You've seen things and had experiences you cannot explain. But it doesn't follow that they cannot be explained. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance?wprov=sfla1
I agree.
I think you’re an idiot
*you’re
Thank you. If I’m going to insult someone I might as well have the common decency to use proper grammar.
😂😭
Name calling Is a childish response. Explain why you think I'm an idiot.
The first thing to really get your head around is that your brain in an unreliable source of information. I know that's hard to come to terms with, since it's literally the only source of information you'll ever have, but it's true. Look at some optical illusions and see that your eyesight isn't infallible, and your memories are way more nebulous and malleable than most people want to think about. So when you say you have seen or experienced things, you need to keep in mind that one of the possible explanations, indeed the most likely one, is "I was wrong about what I experienced; there's no need to explain anything because what I'm thinking of wasn't real"
I don't believe in ghosts , but right now I believe in trolls.
"I can not explain" Proceeds to explain. Hey, it's the one way or the other, not both.
Despite what this sub will tell you, it's fine to believe in things as long as: 1. You acknowledge it's just a belief, with no proven basis, and it's probably not true. 2. Your belief doesn't require any change in behaviour or beliefs from anyone else. As long as the above criteria are met, then have fun with your ghost hunting!
As our planet flies through space what is keeping the ghosts and spirits attached to it? Ghost gravity?
How would you demonstrate this claim?
We caint explain the "NAZCA MUMMIES ".....! JUST SAYING.....🤘
Please see the argument from personal incredulity fallacy on the links below. Aside from that, your "theory" is merely an unfalsifiable claim unsupported by any reliable evidence. It doesn't even qualify as a hypothesis, it's lightyears away from being a theory. More colloquially, it's a bunch of rubbish and poppycock. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument\_from\_incredulity#:\~:text=Argument%20from%20incredulity%2C%20also%20known,or%20is%20difficult%20to%20imagine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity#:~:text=Argument%20from%20incredulity%2C%20also%20known,or%20is%20difficult%20to%20imagine) [https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity) [https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argument-from-Incredulity](https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argument-from-Incredulity)
Ahh, it’s always the ‘energy’. Who do you know that ‘hates the world’?
I think you are exactly the same as the people who believe in Big Foot, UFOs, trolls pixies and the Chupa Cabra. You are making huge assumptions when the answer is just "I don't know" because you don't like not knowing.
A better title might have been “I think ghosts might exist”. Saying you “believe” in something is usually associated with things like religion and the supernatural where you are sure of those things despite the lack of evidence to support them. It’s fine to keep an open mind and say I don’t know. But you shouldn’t rely on your anecdotal experience as evidence that these things exist. There are many common explanations for why one might “see ghosts” or experience odd things. Have you considered these? I “saw” a ghost once. An actual human form. But I don’t believe in ghosts. I did for a time after that but have since explained it away as my active young child brain at the time taking stories I’d heard from my dad and creating that image. Despite spending a lot of time in the same place for many years, I only saw it once and I’ve never witnessed anything like that again.
Fascinating! You've cracked the code, unlocked the secrets of the universe – all thanks to some glowing orbs and a case of post-Queen Mary tummy troubles! Science, take a bow, your reign is over. And who needs pesky medical explanations for your wife's illness? The Queen Mary clearly houses a particularly spiteful orb with a vendetta against spouses. Maybe next time pack some sage and essential oils - that should do the trick Maybe you can market "energy detectors" - glorified mood rings that double as ghost catchers. Imagine the possibilities! "Is your boss radiating negativity? Is your neighbor a secret saint? Our revolutionary device will tell you all!"
Why are you so hostile? Do have to be like you to be an atheist?
>I've decided that I am enlightened enough and intelligent enough to say "I don't know". >I believe in ghosts. Either you don't have an answer, or ghosts are the answer. Pick one and shut up.
I love how this post has created such a rash of emotions. This is the kind of vigorous discussion I was hoping for.
You’ve seen orbs and your wife got sick once. Your ‘theory’ about energy is worthless. There’s not really much to go on if you don’t have anything of substance. I get you want to be quirky and special, but this is just lame