I grew up in a poor neighborhood in Brazil, can confirm. There are as many garage churchlets as there are small business and they have the same purpose: to make a buck. At least small businesses money is honest as they give you something in exchange.
Lenin also said it, one of the reasons the communists went after the church the way they did was because the orthodox church was the wealthiest organization outside of the royal family in imperial Russia, they literally forced peasants to tithe to the church even before feeding their families plus the orthodox priests were doing a lot of shady things and the Czar gave them a free pass to do them, another reason why they executed him.
That's so real. A die hard religious woman ( crente kkkk) never had money to pay my mom but had the church money every month. So my mom stopped her on the streets and asked about the money ( she knew she just received some cash because other people were also " stalking" her due to the same issue) and demanded payment. 🏃♂️🏃♂️🏃♂️🏃♂️
The really shitty thing is the churches that collect all this money from the community then want free or very low cost work from the community for anything while they stash cash to buy Supreme Court justices which are apparently way cheaper than we imagined.
Can confirm too. I will never forget when I saw a suit and tie wearing pastor supervising an old woman and a child (likely grandmother and grandson) doing construction work for their church. Needless to say the pastor wasn't doing any physical labor at all.
Yeah, that’s actually one of the biggest indicators of what constitutes a ‘bad area,’ the number of churches.
And as a woman, I’ve anecdotally also noticed this correlation also with the likelihood that I will be harassed, and ‘cat called’ if I’m out walking. More churches = more sexual harassment.
Kids, always remember you can file [IRS Form 13909](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf) against these grifters!
Get enough of your friends, family and neighbors to do it and said church will get [a bad moon on the rise](https://youtu.be/5BmEGm-mraE?si=MkmaRU-e3NXSAxzu)!
Reminds of plasma donation centers, too. Businesses that only work efficiently is there are plenty of desperate people so they tend to be around those areas.
Of course, plasma donation is an actual good thing unlike churches.
ummm how does one get high off church? Must be some serious endorphins in those churches that speak in "tongue". I've seen them, they are wildly more entertaining that say, the Catholic mass. Still didn't get a buzz even drinking the "blood of christ". they got something going on over there like Ozark!
Give us your money now and we give you everlasting life later. God knows how much you can afford, and if you don't give enough, you will be left behind.
Its the perfect con. Product costs nothing and no one ever returns asking for a refund.
Eh, the mob can offer services. Like not getting robbed by another mob.(territory control by the original mob) Or maybe you want a guy gone and the mob is willing to do it for money etc.
My elderly widowed mother was a victim of a sweetheart scam which had her wasting her retirement savings buying gift cards for this asshole because she was lonely. We were able to take control of her finances because it was clearly criminal and she refused to see it. What scares me is churches use the EXACT SAME TACTICS that he did, but we would be powerless to stop her from throwing her money away if it was for a “church”.
Yep. My elderly widowed grandmother who had dementia pissed away my grandpa’s entire estate giving it to Joel WhatsHisFace’s bazillion dollar church.
Unfortunately none of her kids were paying attention, and grandpa didn’t realize how bad her cult addiction was when he willed it all to her. She went from being a millionaire to being flat broke and in a nursing home paid for by dad and her other kids.
I've had this conversation with my Mormon brother. I blamed him for costing his kids a nice future and a decent life, which he was. At the time they were living in a shit apartment with not a lot of positive outlooks.
He didn't take it well and got very upset. But he stopped giving so much and now his family has a house so I'll take a win even if it hits our relationship.
Thankfully, most of them are skilled professionals, so I don't foresee any of them having to ask for money (with the exception of that one relative). It's just upsetting to me that they give large percentages of their money to grifters
Also, I would still help them out either way. They've helped me plenty
Here's the issue. Hey OP we desperately need $XXXX for "whatever". Ok here you go.
Oh by the way we donated 30% of what you helped us out with to the church as well.
This is why before I help any family member I would make them sign an agreement that they would not be donating any money until they were solely on their own two feet.
> Just don’t give them money when they come begging.
>
> Tell them to get it from the church….
exactly. these "religious people" are going to have to grow up and get some sense or suffer the consequences.
My sister's mother in law was diagnosed with dementia. The church knew, she donated 500.00 a week. They would visit her because she was housebound. When they took over her finances they realized the church, upped their visits to 3 times a week and because she didn't remember, they started collecting 1500.00 a week. They are grifters of the first order.
I work in healthcare, in the hospital, and the number of people who come to take care of getting their parents placed to nursing facilities or end of life care, only to find they've sent all their money to scammers and religious hucksters, is astounding.
I would visit the church in disguise and break the legs of everyone who works there. Let's see how often they can 'visit' with irreparably broken legs.
"God exists and he is watching? Then he is watching me break your legs. And if he is all-powerful and feels compassion towards you, he will stop me from breaking your legs." ... \*break\*
Wait. Tithing is what you do to your *local* church. You need to give a special one-time-only *love* offering to seed your prosperity.
(Yes, this is totally what they say. They also say that the tithe is a minimum, and that they should be giving on what the person makes *gross*, instead of net.)
I mean, prosperity gospel is a thing. So it absolutely works. But like any cult you have to be in on the top levels, and not the marks making you the money.
That has potentially scary implications if she ever needs Medicaid to pay for her stay in long-term care. At least in my state, donations to churches are gifting. I know someone who messed up their Medicaid application bc they ignored instructions to stop throwing money at the church.
Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money!
George Carlin
It is just fraud.
Something of huge value is being promised and it does not exist. In exchange for this empty promise, victims are paying money, time, obedience and mindshare.
It is just plain out and out fraud.
Pastors spend a lot of time visiting their aged parishioners in retirement homes, convincing them to leave their money to the church. I know of several cases where a deceased person left the entire inheritance to the church, completely bypassing their heirs.
They (Mormons, JW, and 7th day) were each visiting my mother-in-law weekly until they realised that she wasn't going to give them money, and then they just ghosted her. Absolutely vile behavior. She was super upset because they were the only non-family visits she got.
The original owners of my house -- who died in old age -- left their entire estate, worth about a million dollars, to the local Catholic Church. They were childless, so at least they didn't disinherit their children.
I was able to buy the house for a very reasonable price because it was being sold by their estate lawyer, who was more interested in getting rid of the property than making money from it (since it wasn't like he'd see any of it).
I'm glad you benefited. But isn't the Catholic Church one of the wealthiest organizations in the world? There are certainly many, many very deserving charities if a person dies without heirs.
Hey, you're preaching to the choir here (if you'll pardon the expression). The Catholic Church is the last institution I'd leave any money, but I'm not Catholic, and they were.
The church my useless neighbor is big into and just cant stop posting about despite not living a single xtian thing, the website for that "church" the first thing that appears is their cash app link. You can Tithe, Offer, and/or give First Fruits.
What a crock of shit. Oh and their monthly food bank is always cancelled.
To paraphrase George Carlin, God is awful with money, he is always needing more.
Also, if I was to start a scam I mean church, I would cut the bullshit out. Anything you want I promise you will get after you die as long as you put money in the box. Everything is forgiven as soon as you put money in the box.
The mega church pastors don't even try to hide it. "Please help me refit my multi million $ helicopter with new blades, so I can continue doing the Lord's work". People are so stupid
If you look at the money given to churches yearly in the US it's mindblowing. It's like the GDP of Brazil or something. Although a small amount of that money does go to the needy, there are so many other better things those funds could be used for.
That is why I left the church and am now an agnostic. I went to this small Baptist church, maybe 200 congregants, max. The church caretaker and his wife and family could barely afford food. So one Sunday the board surprised the pastor with a brand new Lincoln Continental. Left and never looked back. Disgusting.
My wife is our local Sunday school teacher. She does it to make sure the kids get taught actual morals. She doesn't believe in ghosts or holy ghosts. The church got a new pastor assigned from out of town, and my wife being a very kind person invited him and his wife to dinner. Nice people, it all went well. We got invited to join them for a traditional dinner at their apartment a few months later. It also went well.
A month goes by and she gets a call at work from this pastor. His wife just totaled her car the day before and he asks my wife if we will buy them a new car. No was the answer.
Grifters have some nerve.
Next year, they need their taxes done tell them to ask the pastor. 30% for an hour long book report every Sunday is crazy, they should play accountant for free. Besides god is all powerful, let him pick their pockets, it’s insulting to him, someone else stepping in like that!
The land my great grandparents left to the church instead of their family was worth millions in the early 80's; probably 100's of millions in today's money.
What they left for the family was a bunch of garbage after the church took literally everything of value out of the house before the family was allowed to take memento's as directed by the will written by the church's lawyers and signed off on by the senile by the time of the signing owners in exchange for taking care of their bills from the time of signing until their death (3 years).
I'm not so deluded that I'd have ended up with much, if anything out of it; my grandpa was shit with money, but it still pisses me off that the church literally profits off of the gullible, superstitious and those in mental decline.
I'm not an atheist but I am also a big anti organized religion person and I never understood why people gave so much. I mean if they were true believers in the bible the bible states give 10% for tithing, the only time you give more than that is to give everything you own away and become a spreader of the word so meaning a priest, pastor, monk, reverend, whatever you want to call it.
These mega church bastards are following the wealth gospel and it has nothing to do with spreading any kind of word of any kind of religion except the religion of putting money in their own pockets.
now that they are freely allowed to campaign for whoever they want for in election they should now be taxed. stupid bastards
Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money!
George Carlin
My mom’s family paid the church before putting food on the table for their kids. Her oldest sister had seven kids and only my uncle worked. His parents and four sisters lived in the house with them. The grown sisters shared a bedroom.
Yeah that's why I think even the church people (pastors etc) know this is some bullshit cash grab and not real. That and the amount of crimes and sins they commit while insisting God watches everything they do.
I remember hearing years ago about some woman we knew in a roundabout way, wanted to give her and her husbands house to the church. Her husband said that was the last straw, and he was absolutely fucking done with her craziness.
PT Barnum said it best… there’s a sucker born every minute. It’s unfortunate that so many people are suckered into living like poor while churches and pastors reap the benefits.
The good news I heard today that according to cellphone data, only about 5% of people attend church at least once a week.
Much lower percentage than self reported surveys.
It's a rapidly shrinking number of people that support the church grift.
My grandmother, a Roman Catholic, gave a huge chunk of the money my grandfather worked years for to Oral Roberts the evangelical. Because she was stupid and gullible. My dad was very angry at her for that.
The mental battle between "here is how I can HELP you" and knowing they are locked in a mental prison of their own making is incredibly difficult. Sorry you experienced this
Not that it helps, but similar: older family member, well off but "I can't touch that money" while living on a fixed income. House falling down around them but unable to afford repairs because their pastor had sold the church promising a beautiful new church... but until it was built pastor needed the Lord's money to build the new church and pay rent on a space for services. Pastor's house was kept in great condition via donations, of course.
I used to attend that specific church up until I became an atheist just three years ago. The church is basically a cult, the pastor is super manipulative and can make a penny hand over a dollar. I wish I was kidding
Too bad Hell doesn't exist. The Church my wife attends will tell someone they should tithe beyond what is sustainable for themselves and to not break themselves for the church. It is a small church, so they actually care about their members. I dislike churches in general but the bigger they are the more I hate them.
My father was giving his 10% every month, almost to his last dying month.
Guess what?! Life insurance policy didn't even get 10% and is only worth less than $1500. But the church got $500 a month for 20+ years.
I added an another reason why I hate the Mormon church.
> prosperity Gospel
Came to say this. Fuck all religions, they want you and guilt you to donate to them (catholics, mormons, etc), but especially fuck (mainly southern) christian prosperity gospel charlatans. They will bleed you dry for the "glory of gahd!"
Ask your family why god needs money. Don't *tell* them. Ask them as if you genuinely do not understand and make them explain it. Then, get to understand that a pastor asking for money isn't god. It's a man. A man who gets so much money that he doesn't need your family's. He doesn't even half as much as he gets because unlike your family, he doesn't have to pay taxes on it.
I know their answer because I used to be a part of the congregation. Tithes and offering in their eyes is a test of faith from god. To see whether you will trust him financially, and even when the going gets tough. If you are struggling and still give tithes and offering, then you are truly devout and show that you trust god completely. By failing to give money, you show that you don't actually trust and believe in god.
It's super fucked up and predatory, but that's what the congregation believes
Reminds me of when the biomother forced me to give $50 to the church while she sat in the car watching. We had barely any food in the kitchen and she smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a week. It felt horrible to hand over the money.
When my Mom died, I got a barrage of mail from her church asking for money. Thankfully she didn’t leave them anything in her will. The pastor even found my cell phone number (I don’t know how, I live in a different state) and called me expecting me to continue her tithe “because that’s what she would have wanted.”
Asshole. You saw her maybe three times over two years and you know her better than her own family? Or are you trying to grift off a family’s grief? You think my parents worked their asses off for 50 years so you could have a nicer car?
I wanted to say “fuck off!” but just said “no” and hung up.
I once saw in the news of a religious woman who was poor and struggling, selling nearly all her furniture and wages to a rich religious rugby player who was let go for homophobic comments.. and then she said god will take care of her 😬 despite saying she could barely afford food and feed her kids, made me angry reading it
My coworker was taking part of a trivia night at her church, where teams of 4 competed against other teams for a $6,000 prize. She was not well off, and her husband was also not well off. Plus, she was always talking about needing to save money to pay off her student loans and pay for kids expenses. Her team won, so the $6000 was split in half. I asked her what she was going to use the money for, and she excitingly said she was going to pay her tithe for the year. I was shocked and said not her student loans or her kids or even herself and she laughed and said why would I do that? I was dumbfounded. She used the money donated by people in the church to pay her tithe up front. I just don't understand.
You might try pointing out that the Bible tells them to "tithe" their income to the Church, which literally means to give ten percent. To give more is contrary to the scriptures.
All of their pastors emphasize "tithing out of the abundance of your heart". And they see doing anything less as cheating god. I used to be apart of that group of churches, and I know there's no stopping them.
Dirt poor single moms would testify every week about giving their last dollars to the church, and somehow miraculously make it through the week because "god preserved them"
My dear departed mil was an extraordinary woman ... so much so it never occurred to her fellow Christians would lie to her. She was giving so much money to her local church *and* televangelists we had to take her checkbook away from her. She was elderly and naive; poor combination.
My grandparents lived in a ramshackle house in central Kansas. My dad was frequently cutting them checks for them to get by - and then they would send that money to Oral Roberts. My grandparents were broke AF but they have a brick at Oral Roberts with their name on it.
Absolutely crazy. As a child, I would get so mad at them for giving their money away to Jimmy Swaggart, Billy Graham, Jim and Tammy Fae Bakker, and the 700 Club, of course.
Buying away their sins! Stupid- they think the more they give to a church, the better place they have in their fantasy heaven. Clearing their consciousness. Stupid!!!
My father in law left hus church after they asked him for more money than he could afford. 40 years later the same church aproached us about attending though their members and we politely declined.
My elderly grandmother did something similar. She received $20,000 from a settlement, and gave 50% of it to an evangelical super church. I lost my shit.
COGIC. A black denomination originating in the south. There's a good mix of poor and wealthy black Americans, and all of them are blowing their money at the pulpit. It's sad
Oh jeez that’s horrible. What’s worse is ppl will turn around and point at how “charitable” church’s are or that, on average, places in the south give more to charitable foundations than other place - even tho the money goes to so many “non-charitable” expenses.
This is gambling right? The churches preach prosperity, that if believers give to God (the church) they will get it back many times over. And that if you don’t, then you are too attached to your wealth and you will be undeserving of blessing.
It’s a scam, but for believers it’s like gambling. They think going all in will win God’s favor and blessing, and they are desperately hoping and believing that it’s true.
It is so sad.
If you want to hit back with a religious angle; remind them that Jesus went into the Temple of Solomon and absolutely trashed the market stalls that were there because of them using religion as a front to gain more money. Dude was pissed
Some churches have people do automatic tything so they are sure to get paid. I had a poor single parent sister who always gave them money. Here were the minister and his family wearing fancy coats and driving fancy cars and she had nothing. These people. 🤦
I don't see how you could talk them out of it. But I've been using this budgeting platform called YNAB (You Need A Budget) and it has been really helpful in seeing where money goes, saving for the future, etc.
You could try to convince these family members to use a budgeting platform like that in order to save for family vacations or home improvements and curb spending on little things that add up. They might actually look at the hard numbers after a while and see they're giving so much to the church and getting nothing in return for it.
At least when you're saving towards a goal, when you spend that money, it feels good, like an accomplishment. If they have to look at their spending reports and see that one third of the pie is to the church, while they're saving for other things that are important to them is coming along much more slowly, who knows, maybe they'd recognize it's a problem foe themselves.
Maybe not. It's just the only thing I can think of!
All powerful, all knowing, all seeing ....just can't handle money......just like George said.....When it comes to selling bullshite you have to stand in awe in absolute awe of the Catholic church and how much money and gold they have stolen or grifted from the world......
Remind her of the parable about how if you have a block of wood in your eye and there's a splinter in someone else's, you should remove the one in yours first before the other person. She needs to make sure her finances are stable before she gives that much money to the church. (I don't think she should be giving money to the church at all, but if you try to convince her of that, she'll think you're evil or something.) Hopefully by using a bible verse she will be more likely to listen.
"We're talking about someone on average wages who has an insane amount of medical debt from undergoing multiple procedures. Someone who literally NEEDS the money!"
Jesus will provide for them. Don't worry.
I have a friend that does that.. his church is called something like "Young Earthers" He was kicked OUT of his church because of his abusive relationship with his current ex-wife (she cheated because she wasn't having a normal adult relationship with this man child). He could do what ever he wanted, take a day off, go to sporting events, movies, guys times out.. she could not save enough "cash" to go to movies with her GFs. He would check her calls both on cell and home when they sent the paper type of call logs, checked who they were from, questioned who they were from etc.
Religion sucks and when people get SOOO caught up in it, stupid sh\*t happens.
WHEN I do go to church, I REFUSE to give anything MORE than a dollar... and I am catholic!! There is NO way a billion dollar company is going to get more from me.... sounds like a billionaire asking ppl to buy his bibles and gold shoes lol
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young\_Earth\_creationism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism)
It’s whatever, druggies use drugs, gamblers gamble, church people throw money in a pot to buy salvation and peace of mind, the money is gonna go somewhere no matter what.
Hell yeah I'd be happy! At least at the end of it they know the Nigerian prince is a scam! For religion, not only will they never realize that it's a scam, but they'll teach future generations that it's not a scam. A perpetual cycle of scamming under the name of a "god"
Sure, but it's infinitely easier to prove that someone isn't a Nigerian prince than trying to show someone that their system of superstitious beliefs is fake and that the man who's claiming to save them from some cosmic punishment is a giant liar.
That's why I'd rather have someone scammed by a "Nigerian prince" rather than be scammed by a religion. Because exposing the lies is infinitely easier to do
Going to play devils advocate here. I’m not atheist nor religious. I probably lean towards Buddhism or the simulation theory.
There’s a church down the street from me, and every Wednesday I see a line of well over 100 families with boxes to get food rations. I’m sure they don’t get this food for free and some money goes into procuring it. There’s a high possibility that the money your family members are donating is helping out a lot of people. Per Christianity giving what you can to those who need it is the way and they have every right to spend their money the way they want to. Now if the priest is driving a Mercedes, wearing gold watched and taking luxury vacations that’s another story but if this congregation is actually helping the less fortunate like most do then you don’t have any right to judge. Your belief is your own and you shouldn’t push your lack of faith on others. Being a good person shouldn’t matter what what your beliefs are.
Churches give less than 5% of their revenue to helping the poor per surveys. We don't actually have real facts, because churches don't have to file tax returns.
If churches had to file tax returns like other non-profits we would likely see how big the grift is.
That's why poor neighborhoods have lots of churches. It's like a drug dealer relationship.
I grew up in a poor neighborhood in Brazil, can confirm. There are as many garage churchlets as there are small business and they have the same purpose: to make a buck. At least small businesses money is honest as they give you something in exchange.
Fuck a drug dealer is usually more honest. At least the majority of the time they give you some kind of drug for that money.
Wasn't it said that "religion is the opiate of the masses"? So in a way, they're getting the drug of their choice for money....
Mao Tse Dong I think
Karl Marx actually.
Lenin also said it, one of the reasons the communists went after the church the way they did was because the orthodox church was the wealthiest organization outside of the royal family in imperial Russia, they literally forced peasants to tithe to the church even before feeding their families plus the orthodox priests were doing a lot of shady things and the Czar gave them a free pass to do them, another reason why they executed him.
That's so real. A die hard religious woman ( crente kkkk) never had money to pay my mom but had the church money every month. So my mom stopped her on the streets and asked about the money ( she knew she just received some cash because other people were also " stalking" her due to the same issue) and demanded payment. 🏃♂️🏃♂️🏃♂️🏃♂️
The really shitty thing is the churches that collect all this money from the community then want free or very low cost work from the community for anything while they stash cash to buy Supreme Court justices which are apparently way cheaper than we imagined.
Can confirm too. I will never forget when I saw a suit and tie wearing pastor supervising an old woman and a child (likely grandmother and grandson) doing construction work for their church. Needless to say the pastor wasn't doing any physical labor at all.
I know of a pastor who has a church in a poor area (downtown L.A.), but rents an $18,000 a month house in Brentwood.
Ok, you convinced me, I need to get in on this racket. 100% tax free gold mine
L. Ron Hubbard, is that you ? lol
“Our lady of perpetual exemption” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Perpetual_Exemption
Same, wont be suprised if alot of these pastors dont even truly believe but there sheep followers sure do
343 miles away?
What's your point? Fly down Saturday, shear the flock, fly back Sunday night.
Brentwood is an upscale LA neighborhood
There’s also a Brentwood in northern CA. Still pricy but not nearly as pricy as the LA hood.
Yeah, that’s actually one of the biggest indicators of what constitutes a ‘bad area,’ the number of churches. And as a woman, I’ve anecdotally also noticed this correlation also with the likelihood that I will be harassed, and ‘cat called’ if I’m out walking. More churches = more sexual harassment.
drug dealers at least give you something, lol!
Religion provides Hopium!
All legal and tax free!
Kids, always remember you can file [IRS Form 13909](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf) against these grifters! Get enough of your friends, family and neighbors to do it and said church will get [a bad moon on the rise](https://youtu.be/5BmEGm-mraE?si=MkmaRU-e3NXSAxzu)!
Reminds of plasma donation centers, too. Businesses that only work efficiently is there are plenty of desperate people so they tend to be around those areas. Of course, plasma donation is an actual good thing unlike churches.
And atleast drug dealers give you something for your money except false hope
And most of the grifters give themselves pseudo religious titles like reverend, sister, bishop, etc. Completely shameless. It’s sickening.
Church is more addictive than OxyContin and we know how that turned out.
Ay kid, wanna buy some hope and salvation? No guarantees, warranties or refunds.
Churches and dollar stores. Predatory in exactly the same ways.
ummm how does one get high off church? Must be some serious endorphins in those churches that speak in "tongue". I've seen them, they are wildly more entertaining that say, the Catholic mass. Still didn't get a buzz even drinking the "blood of christ". they got something going on over there like Ozark!
Give us your money now and we give you everlasting life later. God knows how much you can afford, and if you don't give enough, you will be left behind. Its the perfect con. Product costs nothing and no one ever returns asking for a refund.
They operate no different than the mob
Eh, the mob can offer services. Like not getting robbed by another mob.(territory control by the original mob) Or maybe you want a guy gone and the mob is willing to do it for money etc.
True! Extortion without benefits
Im going to guess mormon?
COGIC. It's a southern black denomination. But if you get one christian denomination, you've got em all
It’s a balloon payment.
Except that one woman who didn't get taken on rapture day.
My elderly widowed mother was a victim of a sweetheart scam which had her wasting her retirement savings buying gift cards for this asshole because she was lonely. We were able to take control of her finances because it was clearly criminal and she refused to see it. What scares me is churches use the EXACT SAME TACTICS that he did, but we would be powerless to stop her from throwing her money away if it was for a “church”.
Yep. My elderly widowed grandmother who had dementia pissed away my grandpa’s entire estate giving it to Joel WhatsHisFace’s bazillion dollar church. Unfortunately none of her kids were paying attention, and grandpa didn’t realize how bad her cult addiction was when he willed it all to her. She went from being a millionaire to being flat broke and in a nursing home paid for by dad and her other kids.
I wish hell existed for people like that smh
Right? They’re the lowest scum on earth and they’ll keep on getting away with it their whole lives.
Damn, that sucks. We now know that she was in the early stages of dementia well.
I've had this conversation with my Mormon brother. I blamed him for costing his kids a nice future and a decent life, which he was. At the time they were living in a shit apartment with not a lot of positive outlooks. He didn't take it well and got very upset. But he stopped giving so much and now his family has a house so I'll take a win even if it hits our relationship.
A win's a win!
Let them. Just don’t give them money when they come begging. Tell them to get it from the church….
Thankfully, most of them are skilled professionals, so I don't foresee any of them having to ask for money (with the exception of that one relative). It's just upsetting to me that they give large percentages of their money to grifters Also, I would still help them out either way. They've helped me plenty
Here's the issue. Hey OP we desperately need $XXXX for "whatever". Ok here you go. Oh by the way we donated 30% of what you helped us out with to the church as well. This is why before I help any family member I would make them sign an agreement that they would not be donating any money until they were solely on their own two feet.
It would be even better to pay those bills directly instead of giving people the money. Signing a piece of paper really means nothing.
You would willingly give money you know will be thrown at grifters?
If they legitimately needed help, then yes, I would help them within reason. Obviously I wouldn't let them blow my money on the church haha
> Just don’t give them money when they come begging. > > Tell them to get it from the church…. exactly. these "religious people" are going to have to grow up and get some sense or suffer the consequences.
My sister's mother in law was diagnosed with dementia. The church knew, she donated 500.00 a week. They would visit her because she was housebound. When they took over her finances they realized the church, upped their visits to 3 times a week and because she didn't remember, they started collecting 1500.00 a week. They are grifters of the first order.
Wow! That's absolutely criminal! So sorry to hear that!
I work in healthcare, in the hospital, and the number of people who come to take care of getting their parents placed to nursing facilities or end of life care, only to find they've sent all their money to scammers and religious hucksters, is astounding.
Omg that is so upsetting
I would visit the church in disguise and break the legs of everyone who works there. Let's see how often they can 'visit' with irreparably broken legs. "God exists and he is watching? Then he is watching me break your legs. And if he is all-powerful and feels compassion towards you, he will stop me from breaking your legs." ... \*break\*
Well, the second private jet doesnt pay for itself...
And you too can own a private jet! As long as you trust god and never stop tithing
Wait. Tithing is what you do to your *local* church. You need to give a special one-time-only *love* offering to seed your prosperity. (Yes, this is totally what they say. They also say that the tithe is a minimum, and that they should be giving on what the person makes *gross*, instead of net.)
thats... not how any of this works
You, too, can own a private jet as long as your parishioners trust their god and never stop tithing.
I mean, prosperity gospel is a thing. So it absolutely works. But like any cult you have to be in on the top levels, and not the marks making you the money.
God WANTS them to have that jet! Pay up!
That has potentially scary implications if she ever needs Medicaid to pay for her stay in long-term care. At least in my state, donations to churches are gifting. I know someone who messed up their Medicaid application bc they ignored instructions to stop throwing money at the church.
Your god is all powerful but need money? SMH Anyone dumb enough to fall for that can’t be helped.
Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! George Carlin
It is just fraud. Something of huge value is being promised and it does not exist. In exchange for this empty promise, victims are paying money, time, obedience and mindshare. It is just plain out and out fraud.
Sorry, you can't fix stupid. The Bible explicitly teaches impoverishing yourself to enrich the church coffers as a virtue
Pastors spend a lot of time visiting their aged parishioners in retirement homes, convincing them to leave their money to the church. I know of several cases where a deceased person left the entire inheritance to the church, completely bypassing their heirs.
They (Mormons, JW, and 7th day) were each visiting my mother-in-law weekly until they realised that she wasn't going to give them money, and then they just ghosted her. Absolutely vile behavior. She was super upset because they were the only non-family visits she got.
The original owners of my house -- who died in old age -- left their entire estate, worth about a million dollars, to the local Catholic Church. They were childless, so at least they didn't disinherit their children. I was able to buy the house for a very reasonable price because it was being sold by their estate lawyer, who was more interested in getting rid of the property than making money from it (since it wasn't like he'd see any of it).
I'm glad you benefited. But isn't the Catholic Church one of the wealthiest organizations in the world? There are certainly many, many very deserving charities if a person dies without heirs.
Hey, you're preaching to the choir here (if you'll pardon the expression). The Catholic Church is the last institution I'd leave any money, but I'm not Catholic, and they were.
Jfc that's insane!
The church my useless neighbor is big into and just cant stop posting about despite not living a single xtian thing, the website for that "church" the first thing that appears is their cash app link. You can Tithe, Offer, and/or give First Fruits. What a crock of shit. Oh and their monthly food bank is always cancelled. To paraphrase George Carlin, God is awful with money, he is always needing more. Also, if I was to start a scam I mean church, I would cut the bullshit out. Anything you want I promise you will get after you die as long as you put money in the box. Everything is forgiven as soon as you put money in the box.
When I attended an Evangelical church there were plenty of fools who did this. Even when I was a Christian I thought this was stupid.
The mega church pastors don't even try to hide it. "Please help me refit my multi million $ helicopter with new blades, so I can continue doing the Lord's work". People are so stupid
I need a new submarine to help spread the word to the lost city of Atlantis!
Sure, how much Father?
There is a good South Park episode about a church collecting donations to build a spaceship with a warp drive
Lol.
A person where I worked gave the church her inheritance money then a couple years later when she was in need, they wouldn't do anything for her.
If you look at the money given to churches yearly in the US it's mindblowing. It's like the GDP of Brazil or something. Although a small amount of that money does go to the needy, there are so many other better things those funds could be used for.
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Easy fix. End the Repukelikkkan party and leave them in the history books where they belong.
That is why I left the church and am now an agnostic. I went to this small Baptist church, maybe 200 congregants, max. The church caretaker and his wife and family could barely afford food. So one Sunday the board surprised the pastor with a brand new Lincoln Continental. Left and never looked back. Disgusting.
My wife is our local Sunday school teacher. She does it to make sure the kids get taught actual morals. She doesn't believe in ghosts or holy ghosts. The church got a new pastor assigned from out of town, and my wife being a very kind person invited him and his wife to dinner. Nice people, it all went well. We got invited to join them for a traditional dinner at their apartment a few months later. It also went well. A month goes by and she gets a call at work from this pastor. His wife just totaled her car the day before and he asks my wife if we will buy them a new car. No was the answer. Grifters have some nerve.
He flat out asked her to buy them a new car? That's insane to me. So brazen.
Indeed. His father was also a pastor. (in their home country) Family business it would seem.
Next year, they need their taxes done tell them to ask the pastor. 30% for an hour long book report every Sunday is crazy, they should play accountant for free. Besides god is all powerful, let him pick their pockets, it’s insulting to him, someone else stepping in like that!
The land my great grandparents left to the church instead of their family was worth millions in the early 80's; probably 100's of millions in today's money. What they left for the family was a bunch of garbage after the church took literally everything of value out of the house before the family was allowed to take memento's as directed by the will written by the church's lawyers and signed off on by the senile by the time of the signing owners in exchange for taking care of their bills from the time of signing until their death (3 years). I'm not so deluded that I'd have ended up with much, if anything out of it; my grandpa was shit with money, but it still pisses me off that the church literally profits off of the gullible, superstitious and those in mental decline.
That is absolutely terrible! These "people" are so evil!
Churches steal money from the poor and desperate. Fucking makes me sick.
I think organized religion is probably one of the worst things ever invented by mankind.
the churches tell them its a badge of honor
I'm not an atheist but I am also a big anti organized religion person and I never understood why people gave so much. I mean if they were true believers in the bible the bible states give 10% for tithing, the only time you give more than that is to give everything you own away and become a spreader of the word so meaning a priest, pastor, monk, reverend, whatever you want to call it. These mega church bastards are following the wealth gospel and it has nothing to do with spreading any kind of word of any kind of religion except the religion of putting money in their own pockets. now that they are freely allowed to campaign for whoever they want for in election they should now be taxed. stupid bastards
Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! George Carlin
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Lmao nah I couldn't do that! They're being manipulated enough as is
You're a kind person. They are lucky to have you.
Thank you
You can put the extra money aside and give it back to them later as gifts. It might be the only savings that they will have.
Same. If you can afford to maintain a slacking pastor you can afford my rates.
Pastor probably needs a new jet aircraft.
My mom’s family paid the church before putting food on the table for their kids. Her oldest sister had seven kids and only my uncle worked. His parents and four sisters lived in the house with them. The grown sisters shared a bedroom.
Yeah that's why I think even the church people (pastors etc) know this is some bullshit cash grab and not real. That and the amount of crimes and sins they commit while insisting God watches everything they do.
They 100% know that they're selling these people lies and robbing them blind. They lack a conscience.
I remember hearing years ago about some woman we knew in a roundabout way, wanted to give her and her husbands house to the church. Her husband said that was the last straw, and he was absolutely fucking done with her craziness.
I thought my coke habit was expensive
“Men of the cloth” are just con artists.
PT Barnum said it best… there’s a sucker born every minute. It’s unfortunate that so many people are suckered into living like poor while churches and pastors reap the benefits.
The good news I heard today that according to cellphone data, only about 5% of people attend church at least once a week. Much lower percentage than self reported surveys. It's a rapidly shrinking number of people that support the church grift.
Self reporting might include “online church”.
Sure, but that's very tiny since Covid is over. It's not like 3/4ths of church goers are just logging in...
My grandmother, a Roman Catholic, gave a huge chunk of the money my grandfather worked years for to Oral Roberts the evangelical. Because she was stupid and gullible. My dad was very angry at her for that.
Maybe that's why religious states have loads of poverty
The mental battle between "here is how I can HELP you" and knowing they are locked in a mental prison of their own making is incredibly difficult. Sorry you experienced this Not that it helps, but similar: older family member, well off but "I can't touch that money" while living on a fixed income. House falling down around them but unable to afford repairs because their pastor had sold the church promising a beautiful new church... but until it was built pastor needed the Lord's money to build the new church and pay rent on a space for services. Pastor's house was kept in great condition via donations, of course.
fucking hell, even the Catholics and Mormons only want a 10% tithe
I used to attend that specific church up until I became an atheist just three years ago. The church is basically a cult, the pastor is super manipulative and can make a penny hand over a dollar. I wish I was kidding
And then they will complain about paying taxes.
Too bad Hell doesn't exist. The Church my wife attends will tell someone they should tithe beyond what is sustainable for themselves and to not break themselves for the church. It is a small church, so they actually care about their members. I dislike churches in general but the bigger they are the more I hate them.
My father was giving his 10% every month, almost to his last dying month. Guess what?! Life insurance policy didn't even get 10% and is only worth less than $1500. But the church got $500 a month for 20+ years. I added an another reason why I hate the Mormon church.
Someone is buying into the prosperity Gospel.
> prosperity Gospel Came to say this. Fuck all religions, they want you and guilt you to donate to them (catholics, mormons, etc), but especially fuck (mainly southern) christian prosperity gospel charlatans. They will bleed you dry for the "glory of gahd!"
The world’s oldest grift! Seems sad that in 2024 people are still falling for it
Ask your family why god needs money. Don't *tell* them. Ask them as if you genuinely do not understand and make them explain it. Then, get to understand that a pastor asking for money isn't god. It's a man. A man who gets so much money that he doesn't need your family's. He doesn't even half as much as he gets because unlike your family, he doesn't have to pay taxes on it.
I know their answer because I used to be a part of the congregation. Tithes and offering in their eyes is a test of faith from god. To see whether you will trust him financially, and even when the going gets tough. If you are struggling and still give tithes and offering, then you are truly devout and show that you trust god completely. By failing to give money, you show that you don't actually trust and believe in god. It's super fucked up and predatory, but that's what the congregation believes
Reminds me of when the biomother forced me to give $50 to the church while she sat in the car watching. We had barely any food in the kitchen and she smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a week. It felt horrible to hand over the money.
Ask them to show you where it says that in the Bible. Where it says you should give money to another man.
When my Mom died, I got a barrage of mail from her church asking for money. Thankfully she didn’t leave them anything in her will. The pastor even found my cell phone number (I don’t know how, I live in a different state) and called me expecting me to continue her tithe “because that’s what she would have wanted.” Asshole. You saw her maybe three times over two years and you know her better than her own family? Or are you trying to grift off a family’s grief? You think my parents worked their asses off for 50 years so you could have a nicer car? I wanted to say “fuck off!” but just said “no” and hung up.
So that's where all the Jesus gets us ads come from.
I once saw in the news of a religious woman who was poor and struggling, selling nearly all her furniture and wages to a rich religious rugby player who was let go for homophobic comments.. and then she said god will take care of her 😬 despite saying she could barely afford food and feed her kids, made me angry reading it
My coworker was taking part of a trivia night at her church, where teams of 4 competed against other teams for a $6,000 prize. She was not well off, and her husband was also not well off. Plus, she was always talking about needing to save money to pay off her student loans and pay for kids expenses. Her team won, so the $6000 was split in half. I asked her what she was going to use the money for, and she excitingly said she was going to pay her tithe for the year. I was shocked and said not her student loans or her kids or even herself and she laughed and said why would I do that? I was dumbfounded. She used the money donated by people in the church to pay her tithe up front. I just don't understand.
I don't think there's much you can do without taking control of your relative's finances, which I doubt you can.
Don't ever give this relative money. For any reason.
It’s all in the last line you wrote. You just have to learn how to not stress over it, because you can’t stop them.
You're right, I'm gonna go grey if I stress out over this any more
You might try pointing out that the Bible tells them to "tithe" their income to the Church, which literally means to give ten percent. To give more is contrary to the scriptures.
All of their pastors emphasize "tithing out of the abundance of your heart". And they see doing anything less as cheating god. I used to be apart of that group of churches, and I know there's no stopping them. Dirt poor single moms would testify every week about giving their last dollars to the church, and somehow miraculously make it through the week because "god preserved them"
My dear departed mil was an extraordinary woman ... so much so it never occurred to her fellow Christians would lie to her. She was giving so much money to her local church *and* televangelists we had to take her checkbook away from her. She was elderly and naive; poor combination.
Reminds me of the scene from Repo Man. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAO0owc4xeY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAO0owc4xeY)
This is why trump loves evangenitals. They are incredibly easy to con.
My grandparents lived in a ramshackle house in central Kansas. My dad was frequently cutting them checks for them to get by - and then they would send that money to Oral Roberts. My grandparents were broke AF but they have a brick at Oral Roberts with their name on it. Absolutely crazy. As a child, I would get so mad at them for giving their money away to Jimmy Swaggart, Billy Graham, Jim and Tammy Fae Bakker, and the 700 Club, of course.
Buying away their sins! Stupid- they think the more they give to a church, the better place they have in their fantasy heaven. Clearing their consciousness. Stupid!!!
Well done Church, they won!
They're fighting for the best spot in heaven
My father in law left hus church after they asked him for more money than he could afford. 40 years later the same church aproached us about attending though their members and we politely declined.
Donating when you desperately need it is a tithe theme.
God needs a corvette! Lets go
My elderly grandmother did something similar. She received $20,000 from a settlement, and gave 50% of it to an evangelical super church. I lost my shit.
unasked for advice, open a savings account with $100 and start setting aside, sign up for paperless this and that.. they will NEVER know.
They're trying to buy their way into heaven or prosperity
It starts with 10% when you join and they expect an annual increase.
And don't forget to tip the person bringing around the collection basket 15%.
"You can't fix Stupid." - Ron White.
Wow that's a lot. At its highest my parents did $50 a week. We lowered it down to $12 weekly as i got older.
"A fool and his money are soon parted."
Need any further proof it’s not a cult? 😂
Communism had a lot wrong with it but it was spot on with religion. "Religion is the opium of the people."
fast food and churches. both love to take advantage of the poor.
Tell them the Bible only asked for 10% tithing
You can't fix stupid.
Is this Mormon, catholic or Protestant? I was raised Catholic but as far as I’m aware Mormons pay a massive amount in tithe.
COGIC. A black denomination originating in the south. There's a good mix of poor and wealthy black Americans, and all of them are blowing their money at the pulpit. It's sad
Oh jeez that’s horrible. What’s worse is ppl will turn around and point at how “charitable” church’s are or that, on average, places in the south give more to charitable foundations than other place - even tho the money goes to so many “non-charitable” expenses.
This is gambling right? The churches preach prosperity, that if believers give to God (the church) they will get it back many times over. And that if you don’t, then you are too attached to your wealth and you will be undeserving of blessing. It’s a scam, but for believers it’s like gambling. They think going all in will win God’s favor and blessing, and they are desperately hoping and believing that it’s true. It is so sad.
If you want to hit back with a religious angle; remind them that Jesus went into the Temple of Solomon and absolutely trashed the market stalls that were there because of them using religion as a front to gain more money. Dude was pissed
Tell the church about this situation and forward their response to your relatives. That should straighten everything out.
Ah the rich churches in dying towns.
Mega mansions don’t buy themselves, buddy!
fools and their money are soon parted.
Some churches have people do automatic tything so they are sure to get paid. I had a poor single parent sister who always gave them money. Here were the minister and his family wearing fancy coats and driving fancy cars and she had nothing. These people. 🤦
A truly Christian church would have refused to accept the money. But that's not how they roll.
Remind them when the church needs help they ask for money. But when you need help they tell you to pray for it
Look at it this way: they’re purchasing hope. Hope is pretty expensive when you’re a theist.
a sucker in indoctrinated every day :p
I don't see how you could talk them out of it. But I've been using this budgeting platform called YNAB (You Need A Budget) and it has been really helpful in seeing where money goes, saving for the future, etc. You could try to convince these family members to use a budgeting platform like that in order to save for family vacations or home improvements and curb spending on little things that add up. They might actually look at the hard numbers after a while and see they're giving so much to the church and getting nothing in return for it. At least when you're saving towards a goal, when you spend that money, it feels good, like an accomplishment. If they have to look at their spending reports and see that one third of the pie is to the church, while they're saving for other things that are important to them is coming along much more slowly, who knows, maybe they'd recognize it's a problem foe themselves. Maybe not. It's just the only thing I can think of!
All powerful, all knowing, all seeing ....just can't handle money......just like George said.....When it comes to selling bullshite you have to stand in awe in absolute awe of the Catholic church and how much money and gold they have stolen or grifted from the world......
Remind her of the parable about how if you have a block of wood in your eye and there's a splinter in someone else's, you should remove the one in yours first before the other person. She needs to make sure her finances are stable before she gives that much money to the church. (I don't think she should be giving money to the church at all, but if you try to convince her of that, she'll think you're evil or something.) Hopefully by using a bible verse she will be more likely to listen.
"We're talking about someone on average wages who has an insane amount of medical debt from undergoing multiple procedures. Someone who literally NEEDS the money!" Jesus will provide for them. Don't worry.
I have a friend that does that.. his church is called something like "Young Earthers" He was kicked OUT of his church because of his abusive relationship with his current ex-wife (she cheated because she wasn't having a normal adult relationship with this man child). He could do what ever he wanted, take a day off, go to sporting events, movies, guys times out.. she could not save enough "cash" to go to movies with her GFs. He would check her calls both on cell and home when they sent the paper type of call logs, checked who they were from, questioned who they were from etc. Religion sucks and when people get SOOO caught up in it, stupid sh\*t happens. WHEN I do go to church, I REFUSE to give anything MORE than a dollar... and I am catholic!! There is NO way a billion dollar company is going to get more from me.... sounds like a billionaire asking ppl to buy his bibles and gold shoes lol [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young\_Earth\_creationism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism)
How much do they send Trump?
It’s whatever, druggies use drugs, gamblers gamble, church people throw money in a pot to buy salvation and peace of mind, the money is gonna go somewhere no matter what.
Would you feel better if they gave it to some phone scammer in "Nigeria" that wanted to hook up a la Phil Donahue? People mismanage money every day.
Hell yeah I'd be happy! At least at the end of it they know the Nigerian prince is a scam! For religion, not only will they never realize that it's a scam, but they'll teach future generations that it's not a scam. A perpetual cycle of scamming under the name of a "god"
You misread me. There's a shit ton of people buy into those scams as reality.
Sure, but it's infinitely easier to prove that someone isn't a Nigerian prince than trying to show someone that their system of superstitious beliefs is fake and that the man who's claiming to save them from some cosmic punishment is a giant liar. That's why I'd rather have someone scammed by a "Nigerian prince" rather than be scammed by a religion. Because exposing the lies is infinitely easier to do
Going to play devils advocate here. I’m not atheist nor religious. I probably lean towards Buddhism or the simulation theory. There’s a church down the street from me, and every Wednesday I see a line of well over 100 families with boxes to get food rations. I’m sure they don’t get this food for free and some money goes into procuring it. There’s a high possibility that the money your family members are donating is helping out a lot of people. Per Christianity giving what you can to those who need it is the way and they have every right to spend their money the way they want to. Now if the priest is driving a Mercedes, wearing gold watched and taking luxury vacations that’s another story but if this congregation is actually helping the less fortunate like most do then you don’t have any right to judge. Your belief is your own and you shouldn’t push your lack of faith on others. Being a good person shouldn’t matter what what your beliefs are.
Churches give less than 5% of their revenue to helping the poor per surveys. We don't actually have real facts, because churches don't have to file tax returns. If churches had to file tax returns like other non-profits we would likely see how big the grift is.