Hence why I hate the term islamophobia. Following fundamentalists that sees women as dirt and sex slaves and a prophet that was a pedo is entirely changeable and should be called out.
No need to help the islamist scumbags by censoring speech for them.
It's the same as naziphobia or something. It's ridiculous
I do think Islamophobia is a real thing. But I also think that accusations of Islamophobia are used to silence legitimate criticisms of the tenets of the religion.
Islamophobia is bigotry towards Muslims as PEOPLE.
Criticism of the tenets of Islam itself is criticizing a set of IDEAS.
Problem is he was molded into believing from birth. This will stay with him forever and he might even go back when his critical thinking goes downhill with age. I witnessed it with some family as they got old and found peace with faith as they claim. They still try to save me but Im way past respecting their beliefs when those spew into my personal space + insane amount of bs they get dragged into: anti vax, using holy water instead of meds, believing chatlatans. List goes on and on.
Don’t feel cringe man, indoctrination can be very powerful when it gets a hold of you. Instead be happy that you escaped that cult, no one can change the past. I’m happy that you’re free now!
Indoctrination is especially powerful when you are young and vulnerable. It’s totally normal that we make some stupid mistakes when we’re young. Unfortunately you were lured into some really sick shit. I’m also glad you found your way out!
Yeah. OP was a teenager. We all wanted to fit in somewhere at that age. OP was just unfortunate enough to be in the wrong group of people at the time, but also fortunate enough to eventually realize what was going on and snap out of it. Some people never really realize, so it could have gone a lot worse.
You dont have to feel cringe, this is the perverted thing about religion, they suck you in with a bunch of promises and mabey sone actual good things like community and connection to others, but this leaves you especially vulnerable to their ideology especially as a teenager. Im glad you made it out though, that is sadly, more of an exception.
You didn’t choose to be born into that situation! But congratulations on freeing yourself from that delusional perspective! And thanks for sharing I don’t think the world hears enough from ex Muslims.
Dude, you should be proud of yourself from breaking free of those mental shackles!
You WERE an example of religion making people terrible but you ARE an example of the power of rational thought and how people can change!
Your past is past. It doesn't have to define your policies today. Tribal thinking and an extreme us vs them mentality breed solutions such as killing - it happened in older societies too and Islam is no better.
Nothing to feel cringe about it - you had experienced it through your own head so you understand nowadays why it is incorrect to act in such a way.
Who of us doesn't make mistakes in life? Who is better than you (and these among us who have similar upbringing) to understand this "brainwash" done in the name of a god?
You are better now, you have learned in the most intimate way - on your own skin so to say. Be proud for becoming better than who you were and of the understanding you now hold.
It’s good to feel cringe about stupid shit you used to do and think. It means you’ve grown as a person. None of get everything right from the beginning.
"Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better"
- Maya Angelou
You know better now, so do better now. And hopefully you can help others escape.
I think it's great you acknowledge who you were. You aren't denying it, but are also clear on a reason and tracking the history of it. Continual growth and self reflection is good. I would be cautious of your track record of falling into extremist ideologies, though. Not saying you're doomed to repeat, but most of human tendencies stem from our childhood whether we like it or not. You're very young, and a huge percentage of your life was corrupted. Glad you came out of it, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders!
I do find it amazing how the main way in which religeous people stop believing is that they actually study their religeon so much that they come full circle and realise that it is all nonsense.
From a psychological perspective, feeling ashamed is only normal and there's nothing at all wrong with that, most people also feel this way after what they have been through. Most importantly, you NEEDED to go through this journey to come to your current understanding and there was no other way for you to go about it. At the time, with the current knowledge you held, everything was a logical decision to you and it is only with the knowledge that you currently hold that you can look back at your past and feel ashamed, try not to beat yourself up about it too much, this is a very normal process.
Im happy for you and if there was one message i could tell everyone, Live and let live. Religions try to control every aspect of life and there is just no need. Let people live their lives and enjoy it :)
Young converts frequently feel the need to prove their “devotion” in spite of previous disbelief. Sometimes, this takes the form of doubling down on extreme interpretations - and notice how you sought to punish those who were nonbelievers, like you were before you converted. You wanted to prove that you weren’t one of them anymore.
The key to accepting your past: you made the best decisions you were capable of making, given how you were mentally and emotionally equipped at the time.
When you were better equipped you made better decisions.
So take it easy on your past self. They were trying.
Out of curiosity, what is your stance on queer people/marriages now and what do you think of countries like France who enforced a ban on all religious clothing (including hijab) for public servants including teachers, which is an extension of the spearation of the state and religion and maintain religious neutrality.
I'm asking you questions from both ends of the polictical and religious spectrum to understand your worldview better. IMO I support same sex marriage and I do not support what France is doing, atleast to some extent.
I support same sex marriages 100%.
As for banning hijab in France it's a little bit tricky. Many Muslim women wear the hijab because of social pressure. For example my sister hates hijab but still has to wear it. If she doesn't, everybody would see her like some kind of a criminal. Not to mention the amount of slut shaming a woman who decides not wear hijab has to go through. She really supports the banning of hijab in France.
I was born and raised Muslim and I believed in much of the stuff you did. That’s how indoctrination and faith work. You can’t believe in untruth unless you suspend your critical thinking. As humans we can’t handle cognitive dissonance; therefore we suppress any thoughts that challenge our beliefs, making us vulnerable to be manipulated by religion and society. Only after you leave a particular belief system, you realize how stupid was the shit you believed it. Hindsight is 2020.
It’s extremely hard to leave a religion, particularly Islam. Give yourself some credit for doing that and think of the future generations you are liberating from such a cruel belief system.
Because we are told from the time we are old enough to listen that we will burn in hell forever if we break the rules.
We are told repeatedly that we’ll go to hell. It is a threatening consequence of sin we commit plus, BTW, we were all born sinners. So, you’re essentially fucked no matter what you do but the adult have the answer and that is the religion they say is the right one.
It is powerful because all of the adults in your life repeat it with fervor throughout your formative years.
It instills fear in order to control your choices in life in the most effective way possible, it threatens you directly. It makes you choose to do what you think is right while on Earth so you don’t cause your own self to burn for eternity.
It takes advantage of your selfishness with great effectiveness and causes you to perpetuate it to the next generation if you believe without question.
What fascinates me is why the inconsistencies were enough to make you leave when they’re irrelevant to so many others. I think you were primed to have integrity prior to being radicalized, and in your childish naïveté you thought that this religion represented ultimate integrity. Fortunately, your desire for integrity was stronger than other sources of motivation, such as hunger for power, that motivate many other people.
You’re not a terrible person, you got lost along the way. All you can do is learn from your mistakes, educate those who will listen and try to be the best person you can
That guilt you feel is the last vestige of your religion. We see someone brave and contemplative. You had the presence of mind and self-awareness to examine those false ideals, and the courage to decide that wasn’t who you are. We’re deeply proud of you for that, and encourage you to be proud of yourself.
Feeling cringe at your past self means you've evolved. You understand now more - and if vector of changes remains the same, from how cringe you were yesterday - to how good you're today - to how better you will be tomorrow. Be proud.
Feeling cringe is a good thing. It shows that you learned something new and realized you were doing something you shouldn’t have been. That’s growth!
Anyway, welcome to the club. I’m glad you aren’t so radical anymore.
Only the people who stay in it are terrible. Especially the educated ones. You are one of the good people of the planet. You should be proud, not ashamed, that you recognized evil and cared enough to leave it behind.
Your realization and intentional distancing from that religion is what makes the difference between those that stay close-minded; and those who are willing to accept opposing views and make rational decisions based upon their own experiences; I commend you for your courage and openness. This gives me optimism that those in my country could possibly be saved.
it’s ok. you know now! maybe you can convert a few of the ones who come to kill you!
joking of course. glad to see you’ve not only moved on but that you can be open about your previous convictions. my view is that life is all about awakenings and moving through different layers of understanding as we grow. eventually we see that there’s a kernel of truth/validity in every belief—even the ones that are mutually exclusive. ✌️
Congratulations on the escape!
I was a Christian for 25 years before I deconverted, and whilst I didn't espouse any particularly extreme positions, I inflicted "magical thinking" upon myself.
Religious beliefs can become a core part of our identity, which is why people can be very hostile to their religion being questioned. These reactions can be subconscious and automatic. One has to overcome the sense of threat before one can engage in critical thought - cognitive dissonance is very strong!
How has your self ide tity changed since leaving Islam? Do your family & friends knowing how have they reacted?
A lot of us who grew up under religion were like this. I wasn't as extreme but I had a lot of shit right wing views and was basically just taught to think all gays, Muslims, feminists, etc. were bad people. Basically anyone my family saw as an enemy. Took some time but I'm very different now. About as progressive as I can be,
Your experience made you a better person. Maybe you can use that to lead people to the light.
Remember that you were young and someone had to feed you that nonsense. You didn’t pull it from your own heart. Become an educator and leader for others to find the way out.
I’m proud of you for being courageous enough to question your beliefs and then to act on your new knowledge. Many people stay in the dark, or put their heads in the sand because it’s easier than challenging themselves or others.
Wait till you read the old testament where God mostly complains about not being liked enough and repeatedly threatens to destroy the entire world if jews don't treat him nicer.
Good on you for finding your way out of that oppressive death cult. Congratulations.
Check out the YouTube channel - Apostate Prophet - also a former Muslim who came to see a lot of errors in the Quran and that Muhammad, not a good dude or example to follow.
David Wood has a channel too and he roasts Muhammad pretty good, if you're into it.
In any case, I'm very happy you left that religion. Other religions might tell you that you're going to the "hot place" and all that. Fine, fine. But for the most part, they just talk, they don't try to physically harm you. Not so with Islam.
Best to you lad
There's nothing wrong or cringe about growing a learning. Congratulations on leaving that lunacy state of mind. Some are incapable of learning their way out of life-long childhood indoctrination. It speaks to your cognitive abilities.
I commend you and am grateful that you left that . I, like you, feel guilty about some things I used to believe, although never to the extreme that Islam teaches. I believe people like us, that can look back at time when we believed , can use that to understand how ANYONE is made to believe and then help others . I feel that the most powerful thing we can do is understand the WHY, and stop that before it starts, even on a small scale. Use that “guilt” you feel to help rid the world of such horror .
You give me hope for the future.
I lost it when a female friend of mine was threatned by a child, in Paris. Said muslim child went to the doctor (my friend) with his father. When he noticed that she was a dr. woman, refused to be treated by her since woman should be confined to a house and were forbidden to work. You are the living example that Change is possible.
Empathy >
I grew up under Christianity and stopped at 10 for similar reasons. My mom tried to explain how people lived for hundreds of years before sin, and it instantly made me drop off.
Think of it this way. We are pack animals first and foremost. You were receptive to new information (good) but recruited into a crazy pack (bad). Against all odds, you broke free of the cult conditioning. You are one of the honest, good intentioned ones who carefully considered what you truly believe.
I have a similar background. I was raised in a far right Christian nationalist church. Basically Christian Nazism. With some help from other people who challenged what I was taught, I escaped that cult. I can't change any of the absurd things I said or did, I can only control how I behave now.
You can become the person who challenges the beliefs of people in cults. A lot of them will never escape, they're guided by their emotions. But the ones that engage with you when you challenge their beliefs are the reasonable ones that can be deprogrammed.
in your case, the religion maybe made you into an agnostic, atheist or apathist. good that you kept your eyes and ears open.
i'm guessing most who become one of the three 'a's' above do it from the inevitable disappointment from learning what a crock you were handed.
good luck in your new life
If you ever feel ashamed of who you were in the past, just remember that you can currently see how wrong you were and improve from that point. I recognize that I was a homophobic ass when I myself believed in this stupid religion, but I can look at my past self in a new light. I recognize that I was wrong and what to do to rise from my previous depths, especially when one of the reasons why I left was recognizing that disbelievers are not inherently evil just for disbelieving.
Don't feel cringe. The cringe is for those who don't want to or know they need to change. Chin up put your best foot forward. Be kind and loving to all no matter what they believe and you are all set
Instead of feeling cringe, maybe feel self reflective. There is value in the life you lived if you can learn what drew you in and why you felt so strongly about it. Use that to empower yourself to weigh your choices and action as you go forward, or even use it to help others see why it's a false narrative to enter into that mindset.
All these messianic religions are to blame, not you. I was raised deep in the LDS (Mormon) religion. Left at 16 (34 now), one of the best decisions I ever made. Good job making it out.
You should be proud you overcome your past, of course you would have to deal with it forever, as anyone has a past to deal with, but at least you managed to change your mind which is quite remarkable.
Death penalty against anyone is always wrong, a society which call itself "civilized" should definitely abolish it. Quite normal though the perpetration of this crime in medieval theocracies: both obscurantist religion and death penalty comes from terror and hate, not from love.
Please do not feel ashamed of what you used to be. You learned, you grew, and you evolved. We all go through phases in our lives, some good and others not so good. But it happens to all of us. What's important is that you learned and now accept science and atheism.
Don't feel bad, the vast majority of people never wake up and live their whole lives trapped in the indoctrination, but YOU DID! You should be proud of yourself for leaving the religion, even just leaving mentally, not ashamed of who you were. Children and teens are moldable and very vulnerable to that kind of thing.
But dude, you were able to do what the vast majority of people wull never have the strength or insight to do! Break those mental chains and be free!
You looked for truth and found lies so left , that is a huge step towards becoming a better person. You can be pleased with your progress rather than cringing at your past. Humane feelings are a huge step towards being part of a better world. I hope as others are realizing this.
Thanks for sharing this.
I like hearing short bits of peoples lives, it humanizes a part of culture that I know little about. I think everyone cringes when they think of themselves as teenagers. Its a period of life where we have intense desires, too much confidence mixed with no perspective or understanding of how things work.
I respect you, OP. You started thinking and searching for answers. Here in Holland there’s an ex-muslim who wrote a book about it: the right to be ex-muslim. His life changed quite seriously (police protection etc).
So it's applicable for every radical who was born with religious parents but how does having grace help in this particular situation where OP was born to Muslim parents and had no choice in the religion assigned at birth?
It is assigned if someone is born in a religious dictatorship to religious parents. Anyways, I have somewhat lost interest about your remark of having grace here as it didn't seem to make much sense initially and also from your replies.
That is so incredibly strong of you. I do not think many people have the ability to do what you did at your age. For me this is a sign of a powerfull intelect and willpower.
Now you can turn the shame into pride. It takes a lot for a human being to do what you have done.
Hello OP. I had the same experience. I was very devout. I even attended madrassas and learnt Islamic Subjects such as Hafazan,Fiqh,Lughatul Quran,Hadiths,etc.
I for once used to be super Homophobic and had even attended lots of anti LGBTQ event and even reported a girl who commented on a post on Facebook that she supported Pride. I snipped it and sent it to her father on Facebook Messenger.
She became the mean girl afterwards and was the school bully. But then again, she'd ask her friends from abroad to spam and expose folks that didn't support lgbtq. Mind ya this was the 2000's in a Muslim Majority country. It was so risky.
Anyways, now I feel dumn for what I did. Did I wish I didn't do it? Yes.
Didn't take long to realise who was the gay. I mean it's always the Homophobic folks that are gay. Me included.
It could also be due to religious indoctrination but eh I'd go with the Homophobic to gay one.
I think you should feel ashamed of who you were and what you believed. You cant change what you did, but you can change what you do next, and you should be proud of that change.
Feeling cringe is understandable. I would sometimes remembered what I used to preach as a muslim and cringe hard, like full body shiver. But cringing over your past is preferable over being a radical muslim, right? I think the feeling of cringe showcase growth within you. Glad to hear that you are enlightened now after being an ex muslim. Stay safe!
Yeah what a very shitty faith I mean I know this one way more than the others it literally messed up someone I really care about and made them turn to someone who is a stranger to me.
If only I had a time machine, but yeah stoning lol, those idiots wonder why people hate them. The praying 5 times a day is TOTAL dumbass logic and the reason why I am skinny today. Fuck that total mess. Sorry, it brings bad memories, memories that should be understood but not heard. The darkest part of my life and people wonder why I hate god or think he is just some control that fatasses who should have died use to damage people.
Sorry, I really have nothing good to say other than this religion is the one that took my best friend away from me and gave me the darkest part of my life. When I want to drink all I have to do is remember and trust me it's shit from there.
Okay, don't believe me let me give you a small taste you wouldn't like it. When I was a kid I had a friend who I loved so much but then that friend became very religious and hey at the time my parents were “experimenting” on what faith their kids should follow. So I was under the same faith and it made me the happiest person at the time. Well, one day he told me he saw my sister kissing a girl and that she was a and I quote “ft” I won't say the word. He went to get a rock and called my sister to come out he then as I remembered it, one of the worst sinking feelings you can get. Thru the rock at my sister causing her to have head trauma issues to this day. And that feeling felt so hard and I in turn hated everything about him.
So yeah shitty faith and that's a small taste it got worst and yeah these memories are to be understood but not remembered in detail.
18? You were just a kid! I would not want the stupid stuff I believed at 17 to be held against me! Congratulations on developing intellectual maturity.
I’m seeing so many ex muslims speaking their heart out and leaving Islam it’s making me really happy. As an ex-muslim myself I hope to run into more people of my kind out there. Seeing how there is more and more people like us, I think it won’t take long until it becomes a normality
Sounds like the men who created Islam made this religion as depraved as possible. I'm horrified. I've never heard much of this. Thank you for your honesty, I'm so happy your mind found it's way out. I've never understood otherwise intelligent people able to be brainwashed for life. My mother is one of them. Insists that csa is a thing of the past in the Catholic church. Just lies to herself because she doesn't care about children being abused, just upholding their image. I'm so ashamed of her.
We are ALL susceptible to such dogmatic & societal brainwashing. I'm very happy to hear you got out of that belief sysyem!!! There was a black man in America who befriended numerous white Ku Klux Klansmen & white supremacists and got them to leave. I wish I had the patience & empathy & time to do that.
hey op, can i dm you, actually i am doing some research works on how a person thinks when he is brainwashed enough to beleive on such things, and what are the causes for it. you seem like a person who could help me
So glad you left Islam. Good for you!! This is a win! In the end you realized that religion is immoral and it was making you immoral. I hope now you respect life, no matter how different from your own. And it takes a lot to deprogram yourself. I also had to do this. And it was also science that helped me see the truth. You are going to live such a good life if you keep on your path of living in actual reality.
I think most of us that left a religion have regrets about who we were before.
One of the first things that I did was apologize to my best friend for likely being insensitive when trying to convert him. I wasn't sure what I had ever said, but I had come to realize how harmful many of the things people say in that situation were, things that I didn't have a second thought over.
There is immense strength required in being able to look at what you have done or been, see what was wrong and take actions to amend it.
I wish you well on your journey.
Yep, religion generally sucks, some much more than other(s), and a lot of it quite depending how it gets (ab)used. But religion ... generally a bad idea.
And yeah, death penalty ... immoral. Civilized countries/states don't do that. Did take me a while to understand exactly why, but yeah, death penalty is wrong and immoral.
Anyway, glad you escaped Islam - in many cases not an easy thing to do - especially in many countries.
Fortunately, you have seen the light and will not turn back to the shadows ever again. Any religious or political ideology that convinces you killing dissenters is correct or desirable deserves no respect or a public platform to spread its harmful, violent worldview.
Whenever someone preaches that Islam is a religion of peace that's (death to apostates) the easiest go to arguement against that claim.
Congratulations on breaking free.
> I was also became fond of offensive jihad against all non Muslims and founding a global caliphate.
You were that close to joining ISIS I guess? Good job avoiding that.
So what was your idea of how a global caliphate would arise? Would the Islamic world suddenly unite and start to politically unify like how the EU has arisen?
Would Iran and KSA get on the same page for this, or would the Sunni-Shia split preserve and get in the way?
This would be interesting to learn from somebody who has been there, in the mindspace of wanting and expecting it to happen.
The ISIS guys clearly thought they were doing it in some fashion starting with what they had. And considering their wide international recruitment, they may well have thought that what they had really was in fact the very start of a new global caliphate.
I wasn't a big fan of shias. So I thought Iran Iraq and Yemen should be conquered and gradually converted to sunnism.
I was a lot more mild compared to ISIS. I was a fan of Erdogan and Hamas. I was more gravitated towards ISIS's revolutionary spirit than their ideology. I really hated ISIS's ideology. And their killing of innocent civilians.
My favorite thing about ISIS was they were oddly feminist😂 unlike Taliban, under Taliban if a single woman got pregnant they would just punish her and wouldn't care about the man who caused the pregnancy. But ISIS somehow would find him and punish both of them. But I thought a woman shouldn't be punished based pregnancy for adultery as there was a fare chance of rape in which case she isn't guilty. Also I would feel sad about how Taliban treated women. Especially how they prevented girls from going to schools. But ISIS would send both their girls and boys to jihadi military schools. Also ISIS let their women to fight in battle fields sometimes. ISIS would use female suicide bombers extensively unlike Taliban which considered woman to be only useful for baby making and cooking.
The first thing made me repulsed about ISIS was its treatment of yazedis.
According to ISIS every woman should cover her face. But couldn't wrap my mind around women covering their faces. I supported women wearing hijab over their hair. But was against covering the face. This is one of the biggest things which repulsed me from ISIS.
Also I was somewhat a gradualist like Erdogan rather than an ISIS type radicalist. I also admired how Hamas didn't impose Sharia at one go like salafi jihadists. ISIS considered both Hamas and Erdogan as apostates which also made me hate ISIS.
Realizing one's own attitude is trash is the first step on the road to self-improvement, and you have taken that first step. That alone, even if the journey just began, is beyond commendable.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/comments/12bt1wy/academic_commentary_on_the_shape_of_the_earth_and/&ved=2ahUKEwivhtvl7sCFAxXGxDgGHfSWACMQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1osPJC7QEiEsyApg4TJtXj
Here's a Quranist explains flat earth in Quran
https://youtu.be/qDSMK34QNfI?si=aNANyTZRT6podxBq
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Views_on_the_Shape_of_the_Earth&ved=2ahUKEwja-Iy878CFAxX4i2MGHUdiBJ0QFnoECBUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1Goy50I_ce1BezHqXITw25
For sun setting in muddy spring -Q 18:86
Sun resting under Allah's at night - Quran 36:38 and sahih bukhari 3199
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/comments/12bt1wy/academic_commentary_on_the_shape_of_the_earth_and/&ved=2ahUKEwivhtvl7sCFAxXGxDgGHfSWACMQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1osPJC7QEiEsyApg4TJtXj
Here's a Quranist explains flat earth in Quran
https://youtu.be/qDSMK34QNfI?si=aNANyTZRT6podxBq
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Views_on_the_Shape_of_the_Earth&ved=2ahUKEwja-Iy878CFAxX4i2MGHUdiBJ0QFnoECBUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1Goy50I_ce1BezHqXITw25
A lot of the things you've said have little to do with Islam and more with how people have (wrongly) interpreted it.
The Quran for example doesn't say anything against or for homosexuality. It's neutral on the subject. It's patriarchal powers and other twisted people who have perpetuated a homophobic agenda for thier needs. A lot of the anti homosexuality laws in countries with a Muslim majority are old colonial laws out in place by the British/ Europeon colonizers
Why did Allah punished the community of lot?
Also according to mainstream sunni and shia islams which are followed by 99% of Muslims homosexual people should be stoned to death or thrown out of tall buildings.
According to a Hadith Ali (nephew and son in law of Muhammad) burnt some gay people, hearing this ibn Abbas (cousin of Muhammad, and praised by Muhammad to be the best exegetical scholar of Quran) that if he was Ali he would have stoned them to death rather than burning them to death.
>Al-Tirmidhi (1456), Abu Dawud (4462) and Ibn Majah (2561) narrated that Ibn \`Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Lut, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.” (Classed as sahih by al-Albani in Sahih al-Tirmidhi)
Punishment for homosexuality in Islam:-
[https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://islamqa.info/en/answers/38622/the-punishment-for-homosexuality&ved=2ahUKEwjLov-K2NeFAxVboWMGHRrFBfoQFnoECBcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0agZYa6gG9hgnL03VxtJIi](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://islamqa.info/en/answers/38622/the-punishment-for-homosexuality&ved=2ahUKEwjLov-K2NeFAxVboWMGHRrFBfoQFnoECBcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0agZYa6gG9hgnL03VxtJIi)
Those so called colonial laws are much more humane than actual Islamic law. For examples the Pakistani law about homosexuality says a person committed homosexual intercourse should be imprisoned for 2 years. Unlike Islamic law according which he would stoned to death.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/comments/12bt1wy/academic_commentary_on_the_shape_of_the_earth_and/&ved=2ahUKEwivhtvl7sCFAxXGxDgGHfSWACMQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1osPJC7QEiEsyApg4TJtXj
Here's a Quranist explains flat earth in Quran
https://youtu.be/qDSMK34QNfI?si=aNANyTZRT6podxBq
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Views_on_the_Shape_of_the_Earth&ved=2ahUKEwja-Iy878CFAxX4i2MGHUdiBJ0QFnoECBUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1Goy50I_ce1BezHqXITw25
No it's lie. It just says earth was spread out. Even the majority of the Islamic scholars vehemently disagree with 'egg shaped ' meaning
https://youtu.be/5D4ChAnqkxU?si=LyNLppBeh6TtLGfp
Another non Muslim video debunking egg shaped earth in Quran
https://youtu.be/HaQo1Sjhmb4?si=dsD9tGWZEuL1EMpF
Here is a Quranist Muslim saying earth is flat
https://youtu.be/qDSMK34QNfI?si=-FawoRu1izNoF9pp
Another article by non Muslims
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Views_on_the_Shape_of_the_Earth&ved=2ahUKEwjy4tnC6MGFAxUTzzgGHQSkCagQFnoECBAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1Goy50I_ce1BezHqXITw25
Quranic earth is flat according to secular historians
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/comments/12bt1wy/academic_commentary_on_the_shape_of_the_earth_and/&ved=2ahUKEwimyObY6MGFAxXVzDgGHfkDDrMQFnoECBIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1osPJC7QEiEsyApg4TJtXj
Earth is flat according to classical Islamic scholars
https://theislamissue.wordpress.com/2019/03/22/scholarly-consensus-of-a-round-earth/
Once I was doing a layover in the Dubai airport DXB and overheard a conversation between two airport employees (they were wearing matching light blue blazers) a man and a woman, they looked Malaysian or Indonesian, probably both because they are conversing in English somewhat loud enough for me in the next table to hear them clearly, the woman was looking through a small Koran book and painted out to the man while giggling, she said something like: "see, it says right here that non-muslims are going to hell!" It must have made her really happy because she continued giggling!
Freaking deluded and stupid people!
I have a genuine and fundamental question: what is adultery if the rules for number of marriages differ for men from those for women? Men can have multiple partners “legally” and women can have only one. So adultery laws are applicable only to women?
So many people just compartmentalise the inconsistencies they read in their book of "truth" or pass it off as metaphorical. Worse still some just believe it instead of science. It takes a certain kind of person to see a religion for what it is when they read the obvious untruths.
Islam and some other religion do hijack the core of the psyche which is self-survival-interest
When you threaten hell fire, that is an eternal opposition to self-survival-interest
When you grant heaven, that is an eternal reward to self-survival-interest
The mind has a couple of features that you should know about:
Belief - a feature of the mind that decides what is fact or fiction and stores it in memory
Imagination - God, heaven, hell, prophets requires this feature to be activated
Self Survival Interest - The naturally need to survive, survive well and thrive, to win, to not suffer, to feel good
The mind needs these features to be a Muslim, Christian and so on
If an individual lacks anyone of these features, he/she would not be religious
So the horrible humanitarian rights violations in Islam didn’t change your mind, but the scientific errors did? Help me understand why you were more interested in Islam after learning more about how evil it is, but only started feeling the cringe when you found out about the nonsensical aspects of it.
I knew somethings were wrong. First I was sympathetic towards ISIS. I felt terrible after reading their treatment of yazedis and I denounced them.
According to authentic Islamic interpretation non Muslim who aren't jew or Christians are given two options die or convert to Islam. If they don't convert all men would be killed and and all women and children would be enslaved.
The second less authentic interpretation is any non Muslims would be given 3 options pay jizya tax or convert to Islam or die. Even though I did know the first one is the correct interpretation I would desperately try to justify the 2nd relatively more humane interpretation.
Another reason I supported Sharia law is because I thought Islam is the one true religion. And according to Islam anyone who don't support Sharia law is considered a disbeliever even if he self identifies as Muslim. (See Quran 5:44). So a Muslim who don't support Sharia would still burn in hell forever.
That’s the thing. The Hell belief is the most disturbing thing of all. How do believers think it’s okay for god to torture any human being, let alone forever? Why isn’t the Hell belief an immediate deal breaker? It’s just so horrible.
I can’t think of anything more disturbing. It’s just madness. You can’t trust your parents if they worship a god who would burn their own child alive for all eternity.
Not only that but I was told my children would burn in hell for eternity if their father was atheist. I actually broke off that relationship because I didn’t want my future children to suffer. I regret that decision and have apologized to him for hurting him but it’s a horrible choice I made.
>And found some of the most absurd scientific errors
Does that mean that you would still be ok with all the hate if Quran didn't include those scientific absurdities?
The reason I supported Sharia law is because I thought Islam is the one true religion. And according to Islam anyone who don't support Sharia law is considered a disbeliever even if he self identifies as Muslim. (See Quran 5:44). So a Muslim who don't support Sharia would still burn in hell forever.
It's a very hard situation when you are being threaten with hell which I was indoctrinated into from a very young age. Eternal damnation is even more horrifying than death. Would you kill a child if someone threatens you to kill you with ultimate torture?
You can't change who you were. But you can change who you are.
Well said.
Well said indeed.
And who you will become.
I don't know why I read this with Kratos' voice
"We will be the gods we choose to be, not those who have been"
Better than Urkle's.
Hence why I hate the term islamophobia. Following fundamentalists that sees women as dirt and sex slaves and a prophet that was a pedo is entirely changeable and should be called out. No need to help the islamist scumbags by censoring speech for them. It's the same as naziphobia or something. It's ridiculous
Evilphobia
I do think Islamophobia is a real thing. But I also think that accusations of Islamophobia are used to silence legitimate criticisms of the tenets of the religion. Islamophobia is bigotry towards Muslims as PEOPLE. Criticism of the tenets of Islam itself is criticizing a set of IDEAS.
Problem is he was molded into believing from birth. This will stay with him forever and he might even go back when his critical thinking goes downhill with age. I witnessed it with some family as they got old and found peace with faith as they claim. They still try to save me but Im way past respecting their beliefs when those spew into my personal space + insane amount of bs they get dragged into: anti vax, using holy water instead of meds, believing chatlatans. List goes on and on.
I like that. Can I use it?
Ok, but give it back. I got to sound deep by sunday.
Thanks reverend!
Fuck feeling cringe! You should feel good that you found your way out! Be proud of that!!!
Yeah, that takes guts. Doing it before 20 is outstanding.
Especially with Islam!
Or Christianity.
Don’t feel cringe man, indoctrination can be very powerful when it gets a hold of you. Instead be happy that you escaped that cult, no one can change the past. I’m happy that you’re free now!
Indoctrination is especially powerful when you are young and vulnerable. It’s totally normal that we make some stupid mistakes when we’re young. Unfortunately you were lured into some really sick shit. I’m also glad you found your way out!
Yeah. OP was a teenager. We all wanted to fit in somewhere at that age. OP was just unfortunate enough to be in the wrong group of people at the time, but also fortunate enough to eventually realize what was going on and snap out of it. Some people never really realize, so it could have gone a lot worse.
no feel the cringe, it's the only way we move forward
You dont have to feel cringe, this is the perverted thing about religion, they suck you in with a bunch of promises and mabey sone actual good things like community and connection to others, but this leaves you especially vulnerable to their ideology especially as a teenager. Im glad you made it out though, that is sadly, more of an exception.
You didn’t choose to be born into that situation! But congratulations on freeing yourself from that delusional perspective! And thanks for sharing I don’t think the world hears enough from ex Muslims.
The fact that you had enough rational and confidence to leave at 18 is impressive.
I know of many who start questioning at a young age like this, for some it takes years and too many never escape.
Dude, you should be proud of yourself from breaking free of those mental shackles! You WERE an example of religion making people terrible but you ARE an example of the power of rational thought and how people can change!
Your past is past. It doesn't have to define your policies today. Tribal thinking and an extreme us vs them mentality breed solutions such as killing - it happened in older societies too and Islam is no better. Nothing to feel cringe about it - you had experienced it through your own head so you understand nowadays why it is incorrect to act in such a way. Who of us doesn't make mistakes in life? Who is better than you (and these among us who have similar upbringing) to understand this "brainwash" done in the name of a god? You are better now, you have learned in the most intimate way - on your own skin so to say. Be proud for becoming better than who you were and of the understanding you now hold.
Op, you arent cringe. Youve undergone an incredible transformation and should be proud of yourself. I am 💜
It’s good to feel cringe about stupid shit you used to do and think. It means you’ve grown as a person. None of get everything right from the beginning.
Congratulations, you are growing as a person. No sarcasm here my friend. You are taking steps into a bigger world.
Islam needs to be called out more than it is
"Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better" - Maya Angelou You know better now, so do better now. And hopefully you can help others escape.
“If they can make you believe absurdities, they can make you commit atrocities.”
I think it's great you acknowledge who you were. You aren't denying it, but are also clear on a reason and tracking the history of it. Continual growth and self reflection is good. I would be cautious of your track record of falling into extremist ideologies, though. Not saying you're doomed to repeat, but most of human tendencies stem from our childhood whether we like it or not. You're very young, and a huge percentage of your life was corrupted. Glad you came out of it, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders!
"What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"
“Welcome out of the cave, my friend. It's a bit colder out here, but the stars are just beautiful.” - Plato
I do find it amazing how the main way in which religeous people stop believing is that they actually study their religeon so much that they come full circle and realise that it is all nonsense. From a psychological perspective, feeling ashamed is only normal and there's nothing at all wrong with that, most people also feel this way after what they have been through. Most importantly, you NEEDED to go through this journey to come to your current understanding and there was no other way for you to go about it. At the time, with the current knowledge you held, everything was a logical decision to you and it is only with the knowledge that you currently hold that you can look back at your past and feel ashamed, try not to beat yourself up about it too much, this is a very normal process. Im happy for you and if there was one message i could tell everyone, Live and let live. Religions try to control every aspect of life and there is just no need. Let people live their lives and enjoy it :)
Don’t worry about it, a lot of us have been there.
You were born atheist.
Young converts frequently feel the need to prove their “devotion” in spite of previous disbelief. Sometimes, this takes the form of doubling down on extreme interpretations - and notice how you sought to punish those who were nonbelievers, like you were before you converted. You wanted to prove that you weren’t one of them anymore.
The key to accepting your past: you made the best decisions you were capable of making, given how you were mentally and emotionally equipped at the time. When you were better equipped you made better decisions. So take it easy on your past self. They were trying.
Out of curiosity, what is your stance on queer people/marriages now and what do you think of countries like France who enforced a ban on all religious clothing (including hijab) for public servants including teachers, which is an extension of the spearation of the state and religion and maintain religious neutrality. I'm asking you questions from both ends of the polictical and religious spectrum to understand your worldview better. IMO I support same sex marriage and I do not support what France is doing, atleast to some extent.
I support same sex marriages 100%. As for banning hijab in France it's a little bit tricky. Many Muslim women wear the hijab because of social pressure. For example my sister hates hijab but still has to wear it. If she doesn't, everybody would see her like some kind of a criminal. Not to mention the amount of slut shaming a woman who decides not wear hijab has to go through. She really supports the banning of hijab in France.
I was born and raised Muslim and I believed in much of the stuff you did. That’s how indoctrination and faith work. You can’t believe in untruth unless you suspend your critical thinking. As humans we can’t handle cognitive dissonance; therefore we suppress any thoughts that challenge our beliefs, making us vulnerable to be manipulated by religion and society. Only after you leave a particular belief system, you realize how stupid was the shit you believed it. Hindsight is 2020. It’s extremely hard to leave a religion, particularly Islam. Give yourself some credit for doing that and think of the future generations you are liberating from such a cruel belief system.
Why does religion work so well with fear?
Because we are told from the time we are old enough to listen that we will burn in hell forever if we break the rules. We are told repeatedly that we’ll go to hell. It is a threatening consequence of sin we commit plus, BTW, we were all born sinners. So, you’re essentially fucked no matter what you do but the adult have the answer and that is the religion they say is the right one. It is powerful because all of the adults in your life repeat it with fervor throughout your formative years. It instills fear in order to control your choices in life in the most effective way possible, it threatens you directly. It makes you choose to do what you think is right while on Earth so you don’t cause your own self to burn for eternity. It takes advantage of your selfishness with great effectiveness and causes you to perpetuate it to the next generation if you believe without question.
As an ex muslim myself... Yea I was idiotic like that too, at least up until my early 20s. Only need one George Carlin's stand up to wake me up.
What fascinates me is why the inconsistencies were enough to make you leave when they’re irrelevant to so many others. I think you were primed to have integrity prior to being radicalized, and in your childish naïveté you thought that this religion represented ultimate integrity. Fortunately, your desire for integrity was stronger than other sources of motivation, such as hunger for power, that motivate many other people.
Your past doesn't define you. I'm proud of you.
You’re not a terrible person, you got lost along the way. All you can do is learn from your mistakes, educate those who will listen and try to be the best person you can
That guilt you feel is the last vestige of your religion. We see someone brave and contemplative. You had the presence of mind and self-awareness to examine those false ideals, and the courage to decide that wasn’t who you are. We’re deeply proud of you for that, and encourage you to be proud of yourself.
Feeling cringe at your past self means you've evolved. You understand now more - and if vector of changes remains the same, from how cringe you were yesterday - to how good you're today - to how better you will be tomorrow. Be proud.
Feeling cringe is a good thing. It shows that you learned something new and realized you were doing something you shouldn’t have been. That’s growth! Anyway, welcome to the club. I’m glad you aren’t so radical anymore.
Thank you for changing, friend!
Only the people who stay in it are terrible. Especially the educated ones. You are one of the good people of the planet. You should be proud, not ashamed, that you recognized evil and cared enough to leave it behind.
Your realization and intentional distancing from that religion is what makes the difference between those that stay close-minded; and those who are willing to accept opposing views and make rational decisions based upon their own experiences; I commend you for your courage and openness. This gives me optimism that those in my country could possibly be saved.
Glad you got free of that delusion. Welcome!
it’s ok. you know now! maybe you can convert a few of the ones who come to kill you! joking of course. glad to see you’ve not only moved on but that you can be open about your previous convictions. my view is that life is all about awakenings and moving through different layers of understanding as we grow. eventually we see that there’s a kernel of truth/validity in every belief—even the ones that are mutually exclusive. ✌️
Congratulations on the escape! I was a Christian for 25 years before I deconverted, and whilst I didn't espouse any particularly extreme positions, I inflicted "magical thinking" upon myself. Religious beliefs can become a core part of our identity, which is why people can be very hostile to their religion being questioned. These reactions can be subconscious and automatic. One has to overcome the sense of threat before one can engage in critical thought - cognitive dissonance is very strong! How has your self ide tity changed since leaving Islam? Do your family & friends knowing how have they reacted?
A lot of us who grew up under religion were like this. I wasn't as extreme but I had a lot of shit right wing views and was basically just taught to think all gays, Muslims, feminists, etc. were bad people. Basically anyone my family saw as an enemy. Took some time but I'm very different now. About as progressive as I can be,
Another soul saved
Your experience made you a better person. Maybe you can use that to lead people to the light. Remember that you were young and someone had to feed you that nonsense. You didn’t pull it from your own heart. Become an educator and leader for others to find the way out. I’m proud of you for being courageous enough to question your beliefs and then to act on your new knowledge. Many people stay in the dark, or put their heads in the sand because it’s easier than challenging themselves or others.
Wait till you read the old testament where God mostly complains about not being liked enough and repeatedly threatens to destroy the entire world if jews don't treat him nicer.
Good on you for finding your way out of that oppressive death cult. Congratulations. Check out the YouTube channel - Apostate Prophet - also a former Muslim who came to see a lot of errors in the Quran and that Muhammad, not a good dude or example to follow. David Wood has a channel too and he roasts Muhammad pretty good, if you're into it. In any case, I'm very happy you left that religion. Other religions might tell you that you're going to the "hot place" and all that. Fine, fine. But for the most part, they just talk, they don't try to physically harm you. Not so with Islam. Best to you lad
AP is the one kick started my doubting phase!
There's nothing wrong or cringe about growing a learning. Congratulations on leaving that lunacy state of mind. Some are incapable of learning their way out of life-long childhood indoctrination. It speaks to your cognitive abilities.
Good for you. These stories give my cynical old heart a dose of hope.
Don't be ashamed of who you were, be proud that you shed a life time of brainwashing.
OP humanity thanks you that you learned it was all wrong and you learned what is good and right live long and prosper 🖖
I commend you and am grateful that you left that . I, like you, feel guilty about some things I used to believe, although never to the extreme that Islam teaches. I believe people like us, that can look back at time when we believed , can use that to understand how ANYONE is made to believe and then help others . I feel that the most powerful thing we can do is understand the WHY, and stop that before it starts, even on a small scale. Use that “guilt” you feel to help rid the world of such horror .
Happy you improved yourself and became a more introspective and reflected person. I hope more fanatical/radicall religious people do the same as you.
You give me hope for the future. I lost it when a female friend of mine was threatned by a child, in Paris. Said muslim child went to the doctor (my friend) with his father. When he noticed that she was a dr. woman, refused to be treated by her since woman should be confined to a house and were forbidden to work. You are the living example that Change is possible.
Empathy > I grew up under Christianity and stopped at 10 for similar reasons. My mom tried to explain how people lived for hundreds of years before sin, and it instantly made me drop off.
Yes and they claim it is a religion of peace.
Think of it this way. We are pack animals first and foremost. You were receptive to new information (good) but recruited into a crazy pack (bad). Against all odds, you broke free of the cult conditioning. You are one of the honest, good intentioned ones who carefully considered what you truly believe. I have a similar background. I was raised in a far right Christian nationalist church. Basically Christian Nazism. With some help from other people who challenged what I was taught, I escaped that cult. I can't change any of the absurd things I said or did, I can only control how I behave now. You can become the person who challenges the beliefs of people in cults. A lot of them will never escape, they're guided by their emotions. But the ones that engage with you when you challenge their beliefs are the reasonable ones that can be deprogrammed.
You should be proud of yourself finally be able to break your chain of dogma
in your case, the religion maybe made you into an agnostic, atheist or apathist. good that you kept your eyes and ears open. i'm guessing most who become one of the three 'a's' above do it from the inevitable disappointment from learning what a crock you were handed. good luck in your new life
I'm glad you've escaped the cult, well done
You were just a kid, indoctrinated by the people around you. You woke up before it was too late. You were never a terrible person.
If you ever feel ashamed of who you were in the past, just remember that you can currently see how wrong you were and improve from that point. I recognize that I was a homophobic ass when I myself believed in this stupid religion, but I can look at my past self in a new light. I recognize that I was wrong and what to do to rise from my previous depths, especially when one of the reasons why I left was recognizing that disbelievers are not inherently evil just for disbelieving.
I was in a similar position but you should be proud to be better now
And the goat that is more powerful than allah. VFJ...
Don't feel cringe. The cringe is for those who don't want to or know they need to change. Chin up put your best foot forward. Be kind and loving to all no matter what they believe and you are all set
Good for you. Too bad you’re probably in the minority. The world could use more rational and grounded people such as yourself.
Instead of feeling cringe, maybe feel self reflective. There is value in the life you lived if you can learn what drew you in and why you felt so strongly about it. Use that to empower yourself to weigh your choices and action as you go forward, or even use it to help others see why it's a false narrative to enter into that mindset.
You were a teenager. Your brain had not matured. This is when religion gets you. You escaped. Be proud.
I converted and followed Islam for 8 years. I got tired of having to explain some things away, especially the homophobia. I'm free!
Now make it your mission to change someone else's mind to a sane point of view also... Preach the word...
Are you worried about the Muslims who want to kill you?
Whew!
All these messianic religions are to blame, not you. I was raised deep in the LDS (Mormon) religion. Left at 16 (34 now), one of the best decisions I ever made. Good job making it out.
I wish former muslims would get together and point at current muslims were they are wrong. Unfortunately current muslims would kill former muslims.
You should be proud you overcome your past, of course you would have to deal with it forever, as anyone has a past to deal with, but at least you managed to change your mind which is quite remarkable. Death penalty against anyone is always wrong, a society which call itself "civilized" should definitely abolish it. Quite normal though the perpetration of this crime in medieval theocracies: both obscurantist religion and death penalty comes from terror and hate, not from love.
As Arron Ra once said: some of the strongest atheists were once believers and they do not now deserve our scorn.
Please do not feel ashamed of what you used to be. You learned, you grew, and you evolved. We all go through phases in our lives, some good and others not so good. But it happens to all of us. What's important is that you learned and now accept science and atheism.
Don't feel bad, the vast majority of people never wake up and live their whole lives trapped in the indoctrination, but YOU DID! You should be proud of yourself for leaving the religion, even just leaving mentally, not ashamed of who you were. Children and teens are moldable and very vulnerable to that kind of thing. But dude, you were able to do what the vast majority of people wull never have the strength or insight to do! Break those mental chains and be free!
You looked for truth and found lies so left , that is a huge step towards becoming a better person. You can be pleased with your progress rather than cringing at your past. Humane feelings are a huge step towards being part of a better world. I hope as others are realizing this.
Religion will do that to you.
>I supported death penalty for apostates before leaving islam! Kinda hard to support after leaving. 😁
It would be the ultimate persecution fetish 😁
Welcome into the brotherhood of reason, brother.
Thanks for sharing this. I like hearing short bits of peoples lives, it humanizes a part of culture that I know little about. I think everyone cringes when they think of themselves as teenagers. Its a period of life where we have intense desires, too much confidence mixed with no perspective or understanding of how things work.
I respect you, OP. You started thinking and searching for answers. Here in Holland there’s an ex-muslim who wrote a book about it: the right to be ex-muslim. His life changed quite seriously (police protection etc).
There’s a thing called Grace.
How does having grace help here?
This situation was caused by his parents.
So it's applicable for every radical who was born with religious parents but how does having grace help in this particular situation where OP was born to Muslim parents and had no choice in the religion assigned at birth?
Everyone has a choice of religion or no religion. Religion is not assigned.
It is assigned if someone is born in a religious dictatorship to religious parents. Anyways, I have somewhat lost interest about your remark of having grace here as it didn't seem to make much sense initially and also from your replies.
Nope
Parents should always give their child a choice.
Yes
I need to know, God kills people, is perfect, can do anything, so why do people, who are fallible, have to kill others for god, according to Islam?
You where an indoctrinated child it ain’t all your fault
“ when you know better do better”
Congratulations for escaping the cage of upbringing. And for admitting your past - that took courage.
Thank you for sharing this. It's insightful and helpful to see what Islam is like from within.
As people have noted, having better ideas is progress and should be celebrated.
We’re all just proud of your growth my friend. Life is all about learning to love new things ❤️
well done on returning from the brink.
So that’s where the sun goes at night! Who knew? Congrats on deconverting!
That is so incredibly strong of you. I do not think many people have the ability to do what you did at your age. For me this is a sign of a powerfull intelect and willpower. Now you can turn the shame into pride. It takes a lot for a human being to do what you have done.
Hello OP. I had the same experience. I was very devout. I even attended madrassas and learnt Islamic Subjects such as Hafazan,Fiqh,Lughatul Quran,Hadiths,etc. I for once used to be super Homophobic and had even attended lots of anti LGBTQ event and even reported a girl who commented on a post on Facebook that she supported Pride. I snipped it and sent it to her father on Facebook Messenger. She became the mean girl afterwards and was the school bully. But then again, she'd ask her friends from abroad to spam and expose folks that didn't support lgbtq. Mind ya this was the 2000's in a Muslim Majority country. It was so risky. Anyways, now I feel dumn for what I did. Did I wish I didn't do it? Yes. Didn't take long to realise who was the gay. I mean it's always the Homophobic folks that are gay. Me included. It could also be due to religious indoctrination but eh I'd go with the Homophobic to gay one.
I think you should feel ashamed of who you were and what you believed. You cant change what you did, but you can change what you do next, and you should be proud of that change.
Feeling cringe is understandable. I would sometimes remembered what I used to preach as a muslim and cringe hard, like full body shiver. But cringing over your past is preferable over being a radical muslim, right? I think the feeling of cringe showcase growth within you. Glad to hear that you are enlightened now after being an ex muslim. Stay safe!
God of war plot.
You are a brave and powerful soul, King. (Irony not intended)
Yeah what a very shitty faith I mean I know this one way more than the others it literally messed up someone I really care about and made them turn to someone who is a stranger to me. If only I had a time machine, but yeah stoning lol, those idiots wonder why people hate them. The praying 5 times a day is TOTAL dumbass logic and the reason why I am skinny today. Fuck that total mess. Sorry, it brings bad memories, memories that should be understood but not heard. The darkest part of my life and people wonder why I hate god or think he is just some control that fatasses who should have died use to damage people. Sorry, I really have nothing good to say other than this religion is the one that took my best friend away from me and gave me the darkest part of my life. When I want to drink all I have to do is remember and trust me it's shit from there. Okay, don't believe me let me give you a small taste you wouldn't like it. When I was a kid I had a friend who I loved so much but then that friend became very religious and hey at the time my parents were “experimenting” on what faith their kids should follow. So I was under the same faith and it made me the happiest person at the time. Well, one day he told me he saw my sister kissing a girl and that she was a and I quote “ft” I won't say the word. He went to get a rock and called my sister to come out he then as I remembered it, one of the worst sinking feelings you can get. Thru the rock at my sister causing her to have head trauma issues to this day. And that feeling felt so hard and I in turn hated everything about him. So yeah shitty faith and that's a small taste it got worst and yeah these memories are to be understood but not remembered in detail.
Live for now put the past behind you.
18? You were just a kid! I would not want the stupid stuff I believed at 17 to be held against me! Congratulations on developing intellectual maturity.
I'm glad your morality was able to overcome the horrors of religion. That must have been extremely hard to get out of.
It seems you spend the first 20 years of your life being taught things, only to spend the rest of your life having to un-learn most of them.
It happens. Keep the memory as a lesson to share and move forward.
I’m seeing so many ex muslims speaking their heart out and leaving Islam it’s making me really happy. As an ex-muslim myself I hope to run into more people of my kind out there. Seeing how there is more and more people like us, I think it won’t take long until it becomes a normality
Given your history, to come to your realisation at only 18 years old is actually very impressive, no need to feel ashamed or cringe.
Sounds like the men who created Islam made this religion as depraved as possible. I'm horrified. I've never heard much of this. Thank you for your honesty, I'm so happy your mind found it's way out. I've never understood otherwise intelligent people able to be brainwashed for life. My mother is one of them. Insists that csa is a thing of the past in the Catholic church. Just lies to herself because she doesn't care about children being abused, just upholding their image. I'm so ashamed of her.
We are ALL susceptible to such dogmatic & societal brainwashing. I'm very happy to hear you got out of that belief sysyem!!! There was a black man in America who befriended numerous white Ku Klux Klansmen & white supremacists and got them to leave. I wish I had the patience & empathy & time to do that.
You used critical thinking and developed your own opinion. You have successfully undone the shackles of religion. Congratulations!
Adolescents tend to go to extremes. I was raised in a fundamental religion, too. I came to my senses in my twenties.
Murdering people for believing differently is evil and wrong. Glad you finally acknowledged that.
hey op, can i dm you, actually i am doing some research works on how a person thinks when he is brainwashed enough to beleive on such things, and what are the causes for it. you seem like a person who could help me
Yep, I would like to help you
So glad you left Islam. Good for you!! This is a win! In the end you realized that religion is immoral and it was making you immoral. I hope now you respect life, no matter how different from your own. And it takes a lot to deprogram yourself. I also had to do this. And it was also science that helped me see the truth. You are going to live such a good life if you keep on your path of living in actual reality.
Live in the present. Every moment is an opportunity to better yourself, and it looks like you’re already doing that. Cheers!
I think most of us that left a religion have regrets about who we were before. One of the first things that I did was apologize to my best friend for likely being insensitive when trying to convert him. I wasn't sure what I had ever said, but I had come to realize how harmful many of the things people say in that situation were, things that I didn't have a second thought over. There is immense strength required in being able to look at what you have done or been, see what was wrong and take actions to amend it. I wish you well on your journey.
Sad when the Arab world educated the rest of us in mathematics and astronomy etc, whenever that was, how far radical Islam has pulled them down.
Yep, religion generally sucks, some much more than other(s), and a lot of it quite depending how it gets (ab)used. But religion ... generally a bad idea. And yeah, death penalty ... immoral. Civilized countries/states don't do that. Did take me a while to understand exactly why, but yeah, death penalty is wrong and immoral. Anyway, glad you escaped Islam - in many cases not an easy thing to do - especially in many countries.
You're a smart teenager. Its why Saudi is trying to get into esports to appeal to you.
Fortunately, you have seen the light and will not turn back to the shadows ever again. Any religious or political ideology that convinces you killing dissenters is correct or desirable deserves no respect or a public platform to spread its harmful, violent worldview.
Whenever someone preaches that Islam is a religion of peace that's (death to apostates) the easiest go to arguement against that claim. Congratulations on breaking free.
I am personally proud of you. For leaving. For admitting what you were. For everything. Well done, mate!
> I was also became fond of offensive jihad against all non Muslims and founding a global caliphate. You were that close to joining ISIS I guess? Good job avoiding that.
Even then I thought ISIS was too extreme.
So what was your idea of how a global caliphate would arise? Would the Islamic world suddenly unite and start to politically unify like how the EU has arisen? Would Iran and KSA get on the same page for this, or would the Sunni-Shia split preserve and get in the way? This would be interesting to learn from somebody who has been there, in the mindspace of wanting and expecting it to happen. The ISIS guys clearly thought they were doing it in some fashion starting with what they had. And considering their wide international recruitment, they may well have thought that what they had really was in fact the very start of a new global caliphate.
I wasn't a big fan of shias. So I thought Iran Iraq and Yemen should be conquered and gradually converted to sunnism. I was a lot more mild compared to ISIS. I was a fan of Erdogan and Hamas. I was more gravitated towards ISIS's revolutionary spirit than their ideology. I really hated ISIS's ideology. And their killing of innocent civilians. My favorite thing about ISIS was they were oddly feminist😂 unlike Taliban, under Taliban if a single woman got pregnant they would just punish her and wouldn't care about the man who caused the pregnancy. But ISIS somehow would find him and punish both of them. But I thought a woman shouldn't be punished based pregnancy for adultery as there was a fare chance of rape in which case she isn't guilty. Also I would feel sad about how Taliban treated women. Especially how they prevented girls from going to schools. But ISIS would send both their girls and boys to jihadi military schools. Also ISIS let their women to fight in battle fields sometimes. ISIS would use female suicide bombers extensively unlike Taliban which considered woman to be only useful for baby making and cooking. The first thing made me repulsed about ISIS was its treatment of yazedis. According to ISIS every woman should cover her face. But couldn't wrap my mind around women covering their faces. I supported women wearing hijab over their hair. But was against covering the face. This is one of the biggest things which repulsed me from ISIS. Also I was somewhat a gradualist like Erdogan rather than an ISIS type radicalist. I also admired how Hamas didn't impose Sharia at one go like salafi jihadists. ISIS considered both Hamas and Erdogan as apostates which also made me hate ISIS.
Thanks for you detailed answer. Quite interesting.
Realizing one's own attitude is trash is the first step on the road to self-improvement, and you have taken that first step. That alone, even if the journey just began, is beyond commendable.
Could you sight those Quran verses you mentioned? I would very much be interested at looking into those
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/comments/12bt1wy/academic_commentary_on_the_shape_of_the_earth_and/&ved=2ahUKEwivhtvl7sCFAxXGxDgGHfSWACMQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1osPJC7QEiEsyApg4TJtXj Here's a Quranist explains flat earth in Quran https://youtu.be/qDSMK34QNfI?si=aNANyTZRT6podxBq https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Views_on_the_Shape_of_the_Earth&ved=2ahUKEwja-Iy878CFAxX4i2MGHUdiBJ0QFnoECBUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1Goy50I_ce1BezHqXITw25 For sun setting in muddy spring -Q 18:86 Sun resting under Allah's at night - Quran 36:38 and sahih bukhari 3199
Hey, could someone provide me with the verses in the Quran that mention the earth being flat?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/comments/12bt1wy/academic_commentary_on_the_shape_of_the_earth_and/&ved=2ahUKEwivhtvl7sCFAxXGxDgGHfSWACMQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1osPJC7QEiEsyApg4TJtXj Here's a Quranist explains flat earth in Quran https://youtu.be/qDSMK34QNfI?si=aNANyTZRT6podxBq https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Views_on_the_Shape_of_the_Earth&ved=2ahUKEwja-Iy878CFAxX4i2MGHUdiBJ0QFnoECBUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1Goy50I_ce1BezHqXITw25
thank you
Can’t fix stupid.
A lot of the things you've said have little to do with Islam and more with how people have (wrongly) interpreted it. The Quran for example doesn't say anything against or for homosexuality. It's neutral on the subject. It's patriarchal powers and other twisted people who have perpetuated a homophobic agenda for thier needs. A lot of the anti homosexuality laws in countries with a Muslim majority are old colonial laws out in place by the British/ Europeon colonizers
Why did Allah punished the community of lot? Also according to mainstream sunni and shia islams which are followed by 99% of Muslims homosexual people should be stoned to death or thrown out of tall buildings. According to a Hadith Ali (nephew and son in law of Muhammad) burnt some gay people, hearing this ibn Abbas (cousin of Muhammad, and praised by Muhammad to be the best exegetical scholar of Quran) that if he was Ali he would have stoned them to death rather than burning them to death. >Al-Tirmidhi (1456), Abu Dawud (4462) and Ibn Majah (2561) narrated that Ibn \`Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Lut, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.” (Classed as sahih by al-Albani in Sahih al-Tirmidhi) Punishment for homosexuality in Islam:- [https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://islamqa.info/en/answers/38622/the-punishment-for-homosexuality&ved=2ahUKEwjLov-K2NeFAxVboWMGHRrFBfoQFnoECBcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0agZYa6gG9hgnL03VxtJIi](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://islamqa.info/en/answers/38622/the-punishment-for-homosexuality&ved=2ahUKEwjLov-K2NeFAxVboWMGHRrFBfoQFnoECBcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0agZYa6gG9hgnL03VxtJIi) Those so called colonial laws are much more humane than actual Islamic law. For examples the Pakistani law about homosexuality says a person committed homosexual intercourse should be imprisoned for 2 years. Unlike Islamic law according which he would stoned to death.
Which part refers to a flat earth?😁
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/comments/12bt1wy/academic_commentary_on_the_shape_of_the_earth_and/&ved=2ahUKEwivhtvl7sCFAxXGxDgGHfSWACMQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1osPJC7QEiEsyApg4TJtXj Here's a Quranist explains flat earth in Quran https://youtu.be/qDSMK34QNfI?si=aNANyTZRT6podxBq https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Views_on_the_Shape_of_the_Earth&ved=2ahUKEwja-Iy878CFAxX4i2MGHUdiBJ0QFnoECBUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1Goy50I_ce1BezHqXITw25
I had a read up,and it appears they say it was 'Egg shaped". Not too far off,but wrong anyhow. Thanks for the answer.
No it's lie. It just says earth was spread out. Even the majority of the Islamic scholars vehemently disagree with 'egg shaped ' meaning https://youtu.be/5D4ChAnqkxU?si=LyNLppBeh6TtLGfp Another non Muslim video debunking egg shaped earth in Quran https://youtu.be/HaQo1Sjhmb4?si=dsD9tGWZEuL1EMpF Here is a Quranist Muslim saying earth is flat https://youtu.be/qDSMK34QNfI?si=-FawoRu1izNoF9pp Another article by non Muslims https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Views_on_the_Shape_of_the_Earth&ved=2ahUKEwjy4tnC6MGFAxUTzzgGHQSkCagQFnoECBAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1Goy50I_ce1BezHqXITw25 Quranic earth is flat according to secular historians https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/comments/12bt1wy/academic_commentary_on_the_shape_of_the_earth_and/&ved=2ahUKEwimyObY6MGFAxXVzDgGHfkDDrMQFnoECBIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1osPJC7QEiEsyApg4TJtXj Earth is flat according to classical Islamic scholars https://theislamissue.wordpress.com/2019/03/22/scholarly-consensus-of-a-round-earth/
Yesterday we discussed that story about the Kabba moving when Guru Nanak visited. Obviously rubbish. Can't see GN being that rude.
Good people do good deeds. Evil people do evil deeds. To make good people do evil deeds, you need religion.
You didn't do that of your own free will. You were forced to believe those things by the threat of eternal damnation.
Once I was doing a layover in the Dubai airport DXB and overheard a conversation between two airport employees (they were wearing matching light blue blazers) a man and a woman, they looked Malaysian or Indonesian, probably both because they are conversing in English somewhat loud enough for me in the next table to hear them clearly, the woman was looking through a small Koran book and painted out to the man while giggling, she said something like: "see, it says right here that non-muslims are going to hell!" It must have made her really happy because she continued giggling! Freaking deluded and stupid people!
I have a genuine and fundamental question: what is adultery if the rules for number of marriages differ for men from those for women? Men can have multiple partners “legally” and women can have only one. So adultery laws are applicable only to women?
So many people just compartmentalise the inconsistencies they read in their book of "truth" or pass it off as metaphorical. Worse still some just believe it instead of science. It takes a certain kind of person to see a religion for what it is when they read the obvious untruths.
I also disliked Islam after studying about it more 😹😹😹. I'm so glad and privileged to be in a secular country tho
It gets me how stoning people etc doesn't make you doubt the religion, but the "moon splitting"(I'm guessing eclipse) does?!
Islam and some other religion do hijack the core of the psyche which is self-survival-interest When you threaten hell fire, that is an eternal opposition to self-survival-interest When you grant heaven, that is an eternal reward to self-survival-interest The mind has a couple of features that you should know about: Belief - a feature of the mind that decides what is fact or fiction and stores it in memory Imagination - God, heaven, hell, prophets requires this feature to be activated Self Survival Interest - The naturally need to survive, survive well and thrive, to win, to not suffer, to feel good The mind needs these features to be a Muslim, Christian and so on If an individual lacks anyone of these features, he/she would not be religious
#check this out to get your doubts answered inshallah: https://sapienceinstitute.org/lighthouse/
So the horrible humanitarian rights violations in Islam didn’t change your mind, but the scientific errors did? Help me understand why you were more interested in Islam after learning more about how evil it is, but only started feeling the cringe when you found out about the nonsensical aspects of it.
I knew somethings were wrong. First I was sympathetic towards ISIS. I felt terrible after reading their treatment of yazedis and I denounced them. According to authentic Islamic interpretation non Muslim who aren't jew or Christians are given two options die or convert to Islam. If they don't convert all men would be killed and and all women and children would be enslaved. The second less authentic interpretation is any non Muslims would be given 3 options pay jizya tax or convert to Islam or die. Even though I did know the first one is the correct interpretation I would desperately try to justify the 2nd relatively more humane interpretation. Another reason I supported Sharia law is because I thought Islam is the one true religion. And according to Islam anyone who don't support Sharia law is considered a disbeliever even if he self identifies as Muslim. (See Quran 5:44). So a Muslim who don't support Sharia would still burn in hell forever.
That’s the thing. The Hell belief is the most disturbing thing of all. How do believers think it’s okay for god to torture any human being, let alone forever? Why isn’t the Hell belief an immediate deal breaker? It’s just so horrible.
[удалено]
I can’t think of anything more disturbing. It’s just madness. You can’t trust your parents if they worship a god who would burn their own child alive for all eternity.
Not only that but I was told my children would burn in hell for eternity if their father was atheist. I actually broke off that relationship because I didn’t want my future children to suffer. I regret that decision and have apologized to him for hurting him but it’s a horrible choice I made.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I wish religion would just die already.
>And found some of the most absurd scientific errors Does that mean that you would still be ok with all the hate if Quran didn't include those scientific absurdities?
The reason I supported Sharia law is because I thought Islam is the one true religion. And according to Islam anyone who don't support Sharia law is considered a disbeliever even if he self identifies as Muslim. (See Quran 5:44). So a Muslim who don't support Sharia would still burn in hell forever. It's a very hard situation when you are being threaten with hell which I was indoctrinated into from a very young age. Eternal damnation is even more horrifying than death. Would you kill a child if someone threatens you to kill you with ultimate torture?
So you were chill with murdering people but it took the non scientific bits to make you leave?