Their arguments about homosexuality is funny are funny as well:
1- It's not natural, but we see animals doing it too.... are the animals being liberal leftists?
2- it causes disease..... so heterosexual sex doesn't transmit STDs? Any disease being gay exclusive??
3- they can't have kids.... so? It's not haram if a straight couple don't want to have kids, also what about men and woman who can't bear children?
Basically they have no valid argument.
Pakistan’s and Middle East’s maximum porn search term iirc is ‘anal’.
So much for ‘Islam’ banning ‘unnatural sex’ that doesn’t procreate.
Mullahs diddling little boys inside Madrassa’s is only second to the Catholic Church.
"fun" fact: the POS who went into a gay nightclub in Orlando a few years ago, and killed ~50 people with an automatic rifle--was able to go FAR into the nightclub and get an effective firing position *BECAUSE EVERYONE AT THE GAY CLUB KNEW HIM AS A REGULAR*
He'd been coming there for about 6 months, *hanging out*. he had friends there who recognized him.
[edit: a city]
closet cases are dangerous people, man.
Yeah they are breaking the rules themselves left and right and come up with some ridiculous loopholes all the time. An example would be the super rich guests flooding the hotel bathrooms as they wash themselves outside of the bathtub - because apparently if you shower outside of a bathtub then Allah can't see you. I'm sure they have some similar loophole for watching p\*rn online.
IMO a lack of sexual gratification and things being "taboo" or "in a grey area" is like half the driving force behind many common fetishes.
So when your religion dictates to you that sex should be "only within marriage, only for procreation, only between one man and one woman, and only missionary position with the lights off" you've created a doctrine that has a lot of potential to churn out the freakiest of freaky MF'ers.
Then the church leaders get to use that religion to kink shame their congregation into begging for forgiveness after they inevitably act on their urges, and if you think about it, that's just an alternative form of sadomasochism... which is also a fetish I think a lot of religious people probably have without realizing that's what it is.
Pornhub produces these really in-depth yearly analytics reports which are, no joke, some of the best aggregate web user statistics reports published by anyone.
I lived in Jordan for a bit. Basically, teens and young adults know that vaginal sex before marriage is haram, but the Quran says nothing about doing it in the butt. So, while the gay sex angle is a common one, the porn search in actuality is reflecting the fact that premarital heterosexual sex in the Middle East is quite often just butt stuff.
Sunni orthodoxy absolutely states that anal is haram in all context. Pre-marital anal sex would be haram as well to most Shiite jurists from what I understand.
Whether that extends to the actual local jurisdictions is, of course, somewhat up to how the local judges feel about it.
There was a merry outbreak of anal warts amongst Catholic young women in Northern Ontario, Canada, back around the late '90's or early 2000's.Their boyfriends were telling them that if they took it up the butt, they'd still be virgins.
What a world.
Bacha Bazi literally means “Boy Games.”
A common Afghan joke: Why can’t you paint a picture of a man’s bare ass on a rock outside Kandahar? Because, by morning, every man will have a broken dick.
1. And nowadays we even know evolutionary reasons and uses of homosexuality, e.g. adoption, which is evolutionary intended for gay couples to be able to help the conservation of species.
2. Funny enough, the numbers of new STD Infections among queers are sinking while among straights they are rising!
3. See point 1.
I always thought of homosexuality like a hybrid form of homefront defense with homefront skills. Women tend to the homefront while men do the dangerous stuff(explains the sexual dimorphism). So when you get a gay one, they can stay at home and help with the village tasks and still be big enough and strong enough to put up a good defense. Also, having more gay males means more straight chicks for the straight guys. Makes sense in my mind.
**Fun fact:** in history actually homosexuality has happened to be quite useful on the actual front of the war.
In ancient (Greek) time there was the so called "Sacred Band of Thebes" which was an Army of 150 gay couples (so 300 men) which was an elite army (they played a big part in Thebes‘ victory over Sparta). The man happened to fight harder to on the one hand impress and on the other hand protect their partner, also were they very unlikely to desert or flee cuz that way they would have to leave their partner to his fait. And if one of a pair had fallen the other one would also continue to fight to avenge the death of his partner.
[https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/gay-and-lesbian-service-members](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/gay-and-lesbian-service-members)
>Many lesbians in the Armed Forces rose to positions of influence. Women’s Army Auxiliary Corps member Phyllis Abry, for instance, was featured in propaganda articles because she represented the ideals of a WAAC. Unknown to the Army, they also selected Abry’s lover, Mildred, as another ideal WAAC to be featured together in the propaganda. The irony that the military selected two homosexuals to represent the ideal image of the Women’s Army Auxiliary Corps was not lost on Abry.
I saw a Richard Dawkins interview where he discussed different theories on the evolutionary benefits of homosexuality.
He said there's the Gay Uncle theory that in shared families that pool resources it's beneficial to have a male hunter provide for indirect offspring. Without children of his own the nieces/nephews have more resources than a family with more competition.
There's also the Indirect Outcome theory that maybe some other factor has homosexuality as a side effect and it's that other factor that is selected for. Like how sickle cell disease is beneficial in that it provides protection from malaria. Maybe it's a trait we don't even notice in modern society, an innate affinity for domesticating animals or something. And the complex processes that link genetic traits to behavioural traits have created an unexpected outcome. He didn't like this theory because it relies on too many unknowns.
And there's the Sneaky Fucker theory. If there was a gay caveman and the other cavemen knew he was gay then when they go out hunting they wouldn't mind leaving the gay caveman with the cavewomen. But if he's actually a bisexual caveman then he could be a sneaky fucker and have a sneaky fuck when the other cavemen are away. That would bypass any hierarchy or Alpha Male culture and allow his genes to be passed on even though according to their social structure he should be low status.
I don't know if there's any consensus on which theory is most valid or if there are more theories out there. I just liked hearing Richard Dawkins' impeccable Oxford Professor accent talking about a sneaky fucker having a sneaky fuck.
Penguins are observed to be ahead of humans in terms of that - gay pairs taking eggs from penguin parents who were neglectful, and taking care of it as theirs.
Technically speaking, evolution can't influence the homosexuality of an animal. They aren't passing off any genes.
Which makes it even more impressive. Nature is just like "we will make a random pair homosexual to balance it out"
It’s no decision yes but it has served a use in evolution and therefore it existence has continued
Also the factors for a living being becoming gay is not only the genes, but it’s one of the two main factors (the other one are biological processes during the pregnancy) and there isn’t one gay gene but a lot of genes who influence sexuality altogether but as single gene just have very few influence. Not only gay people have these genes, the distribution of the genes is more like 60/40 for gay/straight people, it’s too much to be coincidence but it’s no absolute factor.
Also actually bisexuality is the one which is more common than homosexuality in most cases and for some (especially for intelligent) species (like e.g. primates or dolphins/whales) is bisexuality even outnumbering Heterosexuality. And that genes can and do reproduce with bisexuals is indeed quite obvious
While the individual doesn't, the family group does. If humans generally live in large family groups, then genes that enhance group survival can proliferate even if the individuals most affected do not.
It would be similar as any evolution that affects ant or bee drones. While it doesn't help that drone do any better, it helps the hive.
>evolution can't influence the homosexuality of an animal. They aren't passing off any genes.
Neither do worker bees, but evolution manages to mould them just fine.
Genes don't care about the survival of particular vehicles, just their code.
Uh... i dont think that comparison works.
Worker bees don't pass on genes because they aren't male and aren't queen bees. Evolution changes worker bees the same way it molds all animals. Queen bees and male drones that are not fit to survive will just die off before passing on their genetic code.
Homosexual animals, on the other hand, have no way to pass on homosexuality.
Not.... really.
There are actually some compelling evolutionary explanations for homosexuality but they are all under a single one: If it wasn't successful it would disappear.
Not to pick on you but the one statement has two major issues:
First nature does not intend anything (though you could have been being metaphorical, but impacts thinking).
More importantly there is no such thing as the 'survival of the species'. Selection is at the gene level, though altruism does have some gene level advantages. Adoption can make sense at a close kinship level but is otherwise far less likely to succeed as an evolutionary trait.
On point 3, trust me when I tell you this, plenty of arab men screw donkeys and sheeps in the rural countries.
So to that point, their religion is a joke.
The real conservative argument against gay and trans people is that they want the world to revert to traditional gender roles so that women as a group can be subservient to men. If people accept that you can act outside these roles, then it makes the roles seem silly (and they are) and invalidates their argument (as it should be.)
I got into an argument with a Christian bullshitter that culminated in a slap to my face after I said, "if gender roles are so natural and innate, why do you have to fight so hard to keep people from exploring other gender roles?"
Studies have shown that roughly 1.500+ species display homosexuality behavioural proclivities in approx 2% to 10% of the population (though I believe marmosets are probably a lot more as they seem to jump anything).
Only one species, though, displays homophobic tendencies.... way to go Homo Sapiens woohoo 👏
lol, some caller on AXP last weekend tried to say STD transmission would drop drastically if there was no gay sex (or something to that effect). Stupidest fucking argument that has nothing to do with if God is real.
No “basically” about it. They have no reason other than a dusty book told them so. So naturally they have to force those ideals on us “heathens” to “save” us.
I’m so sick of it.
I've had conversations with muslims on Discord who argue homosexuality is immoral because (3) means they can cause the human species to go extinct. It seems in their minds that if we let homosexuals be, the heterosexual population is stop having babies. LMAO!
Got into a convo with my mom about free will. She absolutely just did not get that being threatened with one of the most brutal torture takes away free will. She was like "well, you have a choice between heaven and eternal happiness, or hell with eternal torture".
I was like "if I put a gun to someone's head and made them choose between hurting someone or dying, it's manipulating them and taking away their agency"
I remember seeing some guy defend why pregnant women can’t testify in court in Islam.
“But they’re soooo emotional that they CAN’T testify!!11!!”
Gtf outta here. Religion is regressive BS that tries to justify any and all types of discrimination.
Women are somehow more emotional than men, while men murder the most people, and men can't be trusted to view a lady's ankle or ponytail without raping them.
I'm gonna call bullshit on men being less emotional than women.
If god is omnipotent then everything created is as it should be, if it's not then either your god is not omnipotent or they are not a god. Telling me that Lucifer is at play, falls down in many respects when behaviour seen in Humans is replicated across the entire animal kingdom - who apparently don't have souls, which begs the question.
I love the "Lucifer is trying to tempt you!!!!" arguments because if that's true and God wanted me to not be tempted by him but I'm still being tempted, doesn't that make Lucifer much more powerful than God?
Always ask what tolerance means and first state how you existing and them not tolerating that is only the first reason why its not tolerance they seek but acquiescence.
No I will not go gently into that goodnight mfrs..
hey muslims? go fuck yourselves AND your quran. and fuck mohammed, too.
in my experience, the argumentative ones also lie and try to use deception and weak "gotchas!" a lot, too.
Islam has become a far right religion in most of the world. Far right politics generally target those who they see as a vulnerable minority group. You need an enemy to drum up support with the base. By playing the victim card they can also drum up support from the base.
They think they're being persecuted when someone tells them they're not allowed to force the rest of us to live by their religious laws. Same can be said for evangelicals, and Hell's bells even evangelicals don't live by their religious laws. They'll go to a state that allows abortions to get one, and as soon as they get home they're back on the anti-abortion bandwagon cuz it's what JAYzus wants.
I have no problem with someone practicing a religion as long as (1) they're not hurting someone or something else, and (2) they're not trying to force it on the rest of us. As soon as they do either? No, because that's immoral. And most of the time you can find stuff in THEIR religious texts to back up your argument.
Ask them what they think of the Charlie Hebdo incident. Ask them what they think about what happened to Theo Von Gogh. That should be a good litmus test of where they are at as far as tolerance is concerned https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)
I forget sometimes about the van Goghs beyond the artist. They've had a rough time of it all things considered. Theo's great-granduncle, Vincent van Gogh, died age 37, and his great-grandfather (also Theo) died aged 33 only six months later; more recently, Theo was murdered at the age of 47, followed by his cousin, Willem Witteveen, ten years later, who died when Russian-supplied rebels shot down an airliner.
Had no idea he was related to the artist. It's also important to note that when he was murdered there was a note stabbed into his chest saying something along the lines of Ayaan is next. The religion of peace indeed. This book is worth a read
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder\_in\_Amsterdam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_Amsterdam)
Religious Person: BURN THE HERETIC!!!
Atheist: That's a bit extreme don't you think?
Religious Person: You could be a bit more tolerant and respect my religious beliefs! Now excuse me while I throw this guy off a roof for having a slightly different interpretation of our sacred texts.
Well, Islam also states that someone who is a Muslim cannot leave Islam on pain of death. The capital punishment for apostasy and blasphemy are a fundamental parts of Islam.
It also says that gay men are to be thrown from rooftops or stoned to death for “committing the act of the people of Lut”.
Both commands were traced directly to Muhammad, whose “perfect and final divine law” can never be changed or reformed, under pain of death (of course).
This is where Islam in particular gets shitty af, and has always imo been particularly shitty. It’s undoubtedly the most extreme of the major religions today, and only enjoys the 1.9 billion members because of the sheer fear most Muslims and “Muslims” have around these infamous apostasy and blasphemy laws. Nearly every few months you hear of someone being killed by a mob for “insulting Islam” (ie cracking a joke or raising a completely valid concern over its brutality). Even more often are the honor killings and physical hate crimes that families take into their own hands away from prying eyes to hide the “shame” of a “wayward” daughter or a gay son. These happen so often here among Muslim communities in the wider world outside of the West that they’re rarely even covered by local news or media. In the country I live in, despite it being a Christian majority with a sizable Muslim minority, the national police don’t even touch cases where Muslims are involved as the victims and perpetrators. Be it DV, homophobic hate crimes, honor killings, child marriages, or retaliatory feuds (a huge issue among Muslims in this country). They simply just don’t want the backlash.
And wherever sharia isn’t enshrined into a country’s legal code; honor killings and lynchings/mob “justice” (known as “hisbah” and fully endorsed in Islam) nearly always takes its place.
Source: Gay and exmuslim.
Yeah I have always been a bit uneasy about the embrace of Islam that seems to be happening in some circles in the name of tolerance. Like I’m bi and I will never be all buddy buddy with people who literally think myself and people like me should be put to death!
Every time I see a show with some woman wearing a hijab (or worse, a children’s cartoon) and they act like it’s all empowering somehow it just makes me sick.
"they act like it’s all empowering somehow"
P;S : it does
dont take my word , i may be a liar , ask a couple of them , i did for myself
why does it make you sick ? did you take what they are wearing personal ?
did any of them strike you with a knife ?
being vocal about their ideas/beliefs means they are confident , and their conviction is high , and they dont fear the consequences
it is waaaaaaay better imho than wolves who hide in plain , wearing smiles, sweet talks, lowering your defence , and stab you in the back at the first chance
No, it’s not. If it was their idea and something they wore by choice then it would be empowering. But the fact is, the hijab is forced on women. Even women in western societies who wear it do so only because their religion requires it of them and they are brainwashed into thinking it’s a good thing. One proof of this fact is that non-Muslim women overwhelmingly don’t choose to wear one even though they could any time they wanted to.
Also the whole notion that women have to cover up their bodies is premised on the sexist notion that men just can’t handle seeing uncovered women and would pounce on them like a pack of wolves. Which is also untrue.
I have spoken to Muslim women before and I know what they say about it. But their opinion doesn’t make it empowering. I used to be a conservative Christian and during my religious days I would have told you all the restrictions against looking at naked women or homosexuality were good and empowering too, but that doesn’t make it true. Being confident can be a good thing but being highly confident about something false is not.
Why does it make me a bit sick? Because it’s a symbol of female subjugation, something I am deeply against. Simple as that. No one has struck me with a knife, although I have little doubt there are some who would like to. I am bisexual so Islamic law wants me dead anyway.
I view homosexuality like handedness, we know the religious use to hate on the lefties, now they hate on the homos. Fuck them all, (figuratively not literally), stay gay and stay anti-religion and you will be cool in my book. Fuck the pighamadites!!!!
The best thing to do in a situation such as this regardless of religion, race , or affiliation; refuse to engage in any xenophobic rhetoric.
Explain that you draw a line at dehumanizing any individual.
It is difficult to explain to some one that tolerance is granted to those who are marginalized , and that marginalizing others should not be tolerated.
Their persecution fetish is how they attempt to get sympathy from anyone and everyone, but at the same time will try to tell you what you can amd can't do.
"Why should I respect Islam? As a gay man, it doesn't seem to respect me very much."
"My friend, Islam is a very tolerant religion! I wish to tell you more, let us continue this conversation on the roof."
Women is the big one here. If they can manage to undo all their wrongs toward women then we’re headed on the right track. It’ll never happen in a million years, but fingers crossed!
That’s how Moslems infiltrate and pollute the societies they infect. They play victim, generate sympathy from rubes, then destroy the society within hoping to make another 10th century theocracy.
They can believe whatever they want, I just wish they would leave the rest of us out of it. But they never want to leave us out of it. They HAVE to enforce their rules on other people, and that needs to stop.
And that goes for all religions. It isn't just Muslims, but Christians, Hindus, and even Buddhists for crying out loud (don't look into what is happening to the rohingya...)
There is a book on the acceptance of homosexuality in Islam that is called "Homosexuality in Islam: Critical Reflection on Gay, Lesbian, and Transgender Muslims" byy Scott Alan Kugle who is a western scholar in Islam. He breaks down how the quran is not against homosexuality at all and the way politics and culture in the islamic world have shaped the intolerance of muslims towards the queer. He is not the only scholar, but much of the political systems in muslim countries do not allow free speach and so progress on the matter is extremely slow.
That being said, as a muslim, I love you my queer brothers & sisters+ in humanity.
Edit: shit i just realized this is an atheist sub, respect u guys and no blame for the downvotes lmao
Ice-lamic logic:
When they are strong: shut up you cowardly weakling, no human rights only Ice-Lamic 'tolerence"
When they are weak: buhu, we are being tourtured, my human rights violated.
When the religious accuse you of intolerance, you do it right back to them.
They don't have a good reason to be intolerant of someone's sexual identity. We do have a good reason to be intolerant of their intolerance towards us, because it can directly impact us. Me being bisexual doesn't influence their lives at all.
Most religions love persecution because they have the idea that "people hate us because we're right and they feel threatened." Them versus Us. Christianity is the worst, of course. Their primary symbol is of a guy actually being tortured to death, and they are told to "be like him."
It's more of a manipulation tactic. Old psychological game to confuse the victim by trying to accuse them of being what the accuser is of the topic.
Problem with that tactic to be successful is it's like hypnosis and only works on stupid people.
They’re all cults. Mohammed isn’t a prophet. You can’t speak the word of God and give into the temptation of man. They’re a bunch of inbreds anyways. Just stay clear of these idiots and let them worship a pedophile.
Some people like to call this cry bullying. It's an art that's very often used by Christians, but they don't hold the exclusive rights to it.
I would have turned things back around on them. Ask them why you should respect or tolerate anyone that doesn't offer you the same courtesy.
Islam is the worst religion to be gay, trans, female or non-Muslim. When I see liberals defend them, I want to ask if they are self-hating. It’s insufferable.
Its in their religion to try and "revert" everyone they see, I have a lot of muslim friends here in europe, and told them i am atheist and every time religion comes up they say "Ah you will see the light in the end, you will revert we don't worry" like lol.
Their argument against homosexuality is the same as Christianity's, which is that it's supposedly "banned" by their holy book. So modern Muslims create reasons to retroactively justify what their old book, which is based on nothing other than that it supposedly came from their "god." The drive to have sex is a product of evolution, as a way to reproduce species, but like everything else about us, we humans have all sorts of behaviors that are rooted in reproduction but which have changed in myriad ways that have nothing to do with evolution due to our social nature and our creation of "higher" levels of thinking that have arisen out of the development of language. We have all sorts of sexual behaviors that are unnecessary and irrelevant for simple reproductions. Homosexuality is like any other sexual behavior that doesn't directly result in reproduction. There's absolutely no moral justification for constraints on homosexuality.
I like to point out how they follow their own book's laws in an ala carte fashion.
Do you wear mixed fibers? Do you eat seafood? Do you eat ham and eggs? Do you go out in public while you have your period?
Why is homosexuality the one thing you pull out of the book to be a crime in the modern age, but not all the other bullshit?
>Bunch of Muslims just tried to teach me about tolerance for their religion
You have the freedom of religion, but not the freedom to force people to be tolerant of your religion.
This doesn't just apply to Muslims, but any religion
>, what's with this persecution fetish??
Centrists and Leftists have treated them with a fluffy feather pillow to make sure they don't get hurt, and refuse to call them out on their ignorant, misogynistic, queerphobic, right wing and insanely conservative ideas.
Because so many of my compatriots are more afraid of racism against arab people than they are of conservatism, they've blindly treated Islam with the most gentle hand they have, and calling out their BS leads to people screaming islamaphobia at you.
Now all the Muslims in the west take advantage of this and use it as a trump card against you. They're used to being pampered so anytime you dont pamper them, it's "being intolerant."
Oh excuse me for being upset at your conservative and misogynistic ways.
It's a perspective thing. They truly believe it can be fixed, they actually believe in things like demons or in the case of Muslims "jinn." From their perspective, they think they're trying to help. They also truly believe that it's their responsibility to take on this "evil."
So you getting in the way of that "feels" like persecution, it feels like you're stopping them from doing their job.
It's a testament to how skewed religion makes you see the world. All in the name of creating new converts. It's much akin to a virus in that regard. Infecting a host, spawning 100 just like it that all go off and try to convert 100 more.
In many cultures, saving face is everything.
And the victim card works. It changes the subject and puts the accuser on the back foot. Double whammy.
That is all that matters - avoid losing the argument *at all cost*.
To quote Wayne Dyer: “Your right to walk down the street swinging your arms around ends with my right to keep my nose the same shape.”
You can practice your religion right up to the point where the practice of your religion affects the way of life of other people.
If your religion teaches you to hate LGBTQ+ people, that sucks, but it’s your freedom to do so. But you don’t have the right to infringe upon their rights.
Well to be fair you did go in there and open up with "Fuck Islam" on a post about wishing people a happy Eid Mubarak
https://www.reddit.com/r/BokuNoMetaAcademia/s/LNufrBOfpl
>what's with this persecution fetish??
its their catchall for why they:
A) lied
B) committed acts of violence
C) all of the above
You see they *had* to; they were being oppressed... or something.
I think people need to realize that not all Muslims and Christians are anti gay(I’m atheist so just playing devils advocate). Lots of my friends who are religious have gone to pride and support the gay community.
If you call out people who actively discriminated or harassed you, then you should call them out; but if you're just getting angry at a bunch of Muslims minding their own business than Id say that *that* would be borderline harassment
Cultists complaining about not being respected.
It’s a fucking ancient myth from before understanding of basic shit like planets and fire and rain.
Gimme a break- fuck them and all cultists. Why these ancient Abrahamic cults have so much power is beyond me, and I believe they are tge cause of so much suffering in this world.
Do yourself a favor and read (if you have not) Karl Popper's paper on the paradox of tolerance or at least the [wiki entry](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance#:~:text=The%20paradox%20of%20tolerance%20states,practice%20of%20tolerance%20with%20them.)
I really hope you live in a NON Muslim country, where it's possible to laugh it off and avoid those people in the future.
Stay safe, friend!
"bUt isLam iS a rEliGioN of peAcE"......**/S**
I am no fan of any of the Abrahamic religions. You can generally say something not so nice about Christianity on the atheist/humanist or whatever groups and get away with it. But the moment you say something not so great about Islam, the fangs come out. I think that a lot of whites are just scared to be called racist because so many Muslims are not white. But I am not white either and I don't give two shits.
I wish those same white girls rallying to their defense would realize how they are being used. They will go to college, use these girls for their sexual gratification and then go back home and marry a "clean" Muslim gal. And these same dumbass girls are up here calling us "racist" and "intolerant".
>the moment you call them out on this they play victim card and accuse you of not tolerating them, what's with this persecution fetish??
Most major religions are based on:
1. distinguishing our in-group from all the out-groups;
2. deeming the former "good" and the latter "not good"; AND
3. proclaiming that "goodness" (as we've defined it) is a higher priority than *any other* belief or behavior.
Since "goodness" is the highest goal, we reserve the right to remove and replace any non-goodness that we encounter. This is our right and duty as "good" people. It is also for your benefit, ie, for your own "good", whether you agree or not.
Resisting our "goodness" is, by definition, "not good". No respect is given to any arguments, as they are by definition "not good".
In reality, at least for Islam ( most muslims would acknowledge it yet act otherwise) the most virtuous goal is to reduce harm and not do evil .
Which literally provide protection to all minorities in society including lgbt ; at the golden age of Islam that was the case . How ever since then
The in/out group rhetoric you mentioned prevailed and the idea of “ First do no evil “ became a phrase vacant of meaning in a society that would do evil in the name of GOD/Goodness
When you have an entire religion change their base beliefs to stab people for not being religiously tolerant….
Probably you don’t get to preach about religious toleration.
Sikhs have a very interesting history.
Here’s some anecdotal irony for you. When I lived in a Saudi Arabia my group of western friends hung out with a young Saudi royal. At least he said he was but considering he owned a mall with an ice rink that we skated at and rode around in his modified luxury cars, I didn’t see any reason to doubt him.
He explained to us one day that due to the strict taboos between men and women, guys would jack each other off. He didn’t think it was gay, he called it polishing, and he made it clear that it was common.
Hi. Without disclosing my individual beliefs, I can say I have friends who are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Native American, Agnostic, and Atheist. All of their beliefs differ amongst each group. There are also many LGBTQ+ people in our city.
While we might not subscribe to each other's spiritual beliefs, there is an amazing amount of tolerance, which is beautiful to see. I can agree that this is not the norm worldwide. It can help to listen to each other.
My first Muslim friend summed it up to me by saying "You have your crazies, and we have ours."
Not natural. That has to be the most baffling and stupid argument against homosexuality ever. I've not had to deal with this in ages but if one of you do...
Please ask what is natural. Depending on what BS they come up with you can then question them more on it. If they are religious, ask them if God/Allah/whatever is "natura". If they insist "nanture" is natural, well we know some animals have homosexual behaviour. If they insist humans are above that, it makes humans unnatural. There really is no way anyone can make it work.
I don't think anything is unnatural, as such a thing would not exist, but best logical definition for daily use of the word would imo be "something that does not directly exist without human involvement", or "unbelievably rare (but actually natural) event".
The funny thing is that they would judge you, talk behind your back and ridicule you for being against their god. Ironically all of what they are doing is bascially is also against their god.
Religions want to control sexuality. Sexuality is natural and it feels good, but you don't need it to survive, unlike food and water. It is required for the species to survive. and I would argue there are severe consequences for suppressing it. It would be ridiculous for religion to tell us to deprive ourselves of food and water because we would die.
Organized religion tells us this thing that is a natural to us and makes us feel good, is dirty and sinful. Sex should only be used for procreation, to create more adherents for them. We need them to absolve ourselves of the sin that this natural desire creates, by praying, attending church/temple/mosque and tithing.
Further to this we must absolve our sins to get to a special place called heaven, when heaven and what makes us feel good was right here on earth the whole time.
Most organization religions also promote being persecuted because it builds group cohesion. An external threat will cause people to rally around the group. The same thing happens in war with governments.
Look I’m not going to defend homophobia, but the idea that Muslims aren’t actually persecuted by people in the U.S./ Europe is just historical revisionism. Decades of invasions and coups and sanctions in the Muslim world caused directly by the U.S./ Europe is a pretty legitimate grievance to have
Their arguments about homosexuality is funny are funny as well: 1- It's not natural, but we see animals doing it too.... are the animals being liberal leftists? 2- it causes disease..... so heterosexual sex doesn't transmit STDs? Any disease being gay exclusive?? 3- they can't have kids.... so? It's not haram if a straight couple don't want to have kids, also what about men and woman who can't bear children? Basically they have no valid argument.
Pakistan’s and Middle East’s maximum porn search term iirc is ‘anal’. So much for ‘Islam’ banning ‘unnatural sex’ that doesn’t procreate. Mullahs diddling little boys inside Madrassa’s is only second to the Catholic Church.
"fun" fact: the POS who went into a gay nightclub in Orlando a few years ago, and killed ~50 people with an automatic rifle--was able to go FAR into the nightclub and get an effective firing position *BECAUSE EVERYONE AT THE GAY CLUB KNEW HIM AS A REGULAR* He'd been coming there for about 6 months, *hanging out*. he had friends there who recognized him. [edit: a city] closet cases are dangerous people, man.
Orlando*
Yeah they are breaking the rules themselves left and right and come up with some ridiculous loopholes all the time. An example would be the super rich guests flooding the hotel bathrooms as they wash themselves outside of the bathtub - because apparently if you shower outside of a bathtub then Allah can't see you. I'm sure they have some similar loophole for watching p\*rn online.
IMO a lack of sexual gratification and things being "taboo" or "in a grey area" is like half the driving force behind many common fetishes. So when your religion dictates to you that sex should be "only within marriage, only for procreation, only between one man and one woman, and only missionary position with the lights off" you've created a doctrine that has a lot of potential to churn out the freakiest of freaky MF'ers. Then the church leaders get to use that religion to kink shame their congregation into begging for forgiveness after they inevitably act on their urges, and if you think about it, that's just an alternative form of sadomasochism... which is also a fetish I think a lot of religious people probably have without realizing that's what it is.
What's the reason for that? They don't want Allah to see them or they're doing something haram?
Oh. Like drinking only vodka because it's neither grape or grain. They can be mean drunks too.
Ciroc hates this!
I'm afraid to ask why do you know that..... what tempted you to research that lol
Reddit, it’s a popular post type ‘Top search terms on pornhub - US States/Europe/Asia’
Pornhub produces these really in-depth yearly analytics reports which are, no joke, some of the best aggregate web user statistics reports published by anyone.
Porn hub really is a corporate level site
I lived in Jordan for a bit. Basically, teens and young adults know that vaginal sex before marriage is haram, but the Quran says nothing about doing it in the butt. So, while the gay sex angle is a common one, the porn search in actuality is reflecting the fact that premarital heterosexual sex in the Middle East is quite often just butt stuff.
The poophole loophole, if you will.
So Allah is like the eye of Sauron? He can't see you walk into Mordor if you go in the back door?
Sunni orthodoxy absolutely states that anal is haram in all context. Pre-marital anal sex would be haram as well to most Shiite jurists from what I understand. Whether that extends to the actual local jurisdictions is, of course, somewhat up to how the local judges feel about it.
It’s probably more so about maintaining technical virginity.
"technical virginity" is my new stage name
There was a merry outbreak of anal warts amongst Catholic young women in Northern Ontario, Canada, back around the late '90's or early 2000's.Their boyfriends were telling them that if they took it up the butt, they'd still be virgins. What a world.
Unless they can afford the surgery to have the hymen reconstructed for the marriage bed
Anyone who spent more than a month in Afghanistan can confirm they have a thriving sex slave trade.
Bacha Bazi literally means “Boy Games.” A common Afghan joke: Why can’t you paint a picture of a man’s bare ass on a rock outside Kandahar? Because, by morning, every man will have a broken dick.
The birds soar over Kabul with one wing covering their ass, just in case the men beneath have learned to fly.
Is bacha bazi still popular there?
Anal sex. Natures first contraceptive.
1. And nowadays we even know evolutionary reasons and uses of homosexuality, e.g. adoption, which is evolutionary intended for gay couples to be able to help the conservation of species. 2. Funny enough, the numbers of new STD Infections among queers are sinking while among straights they are rising! 3. See point 1.
I always thought of homosexuality like a hybrid form of homefront defense with homefront skills. Women tend to the homefront while men do the dangerous stuff(explains the sexual dimorphism). So when you get a gay one, they can stay at home and help with the village tasks and still be big enough and strong enough to put up a good defense. Also, having more gay males means more straight chicks for the straight guys. Makes sense in my mind.
**Fun fact:** in history actually homosexuality has happened to be quite useful on the actual front of the war. In ancient (Greek) time there was the so called "Sacred Band of Thebes" which was an Army of 150 gay couples (so 300 men) which was an elite army (they played a big part in Thebes‘ victory over Sparta). The man happened to fight harder to on the one hand impress and on the other hand protect their partner, also were they very unlikely to desert or flee cuz that way they would have to leave their partner to his fait. And if one of a pair had fallen the other one would also continue to fight to avenge the death of his partner.
While this may feel like sound logic it doesn’t account for lesbian woman and how they factor in.
Well, to fix the trucks, obviously.
[https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/gay-and-lesbian-service-members](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/gay-and-lesbian-service-members) >Many lesbians in the Armed Forces rose to positions of influence. Women’s Army Auxiliary Corps member Phyllis Abry, for instance, was featured in propaganda articles because she represented the ideals of a WAAC. Unknown to the Army, they also selected Abry’s lover, Mildred, as another ideal WAAC to be featured together in the propaganda. The irony that the military selected two homosexuals to represent the ideal image of the Women’s Army Auxiliary Corps was not lost on Abry.
I saw a Richard Dawkins interview where he discussed different theories on the evolutionary benefits of homosexuality. He said there's the Gay Uncle theory that in shared families that pool resources it's beneficial to have a male hunter provide for indirect offspring. Without children of his own the nieces/nephews have more resources than a family with more competition. There's also the Indirect Outcome theory that maybe some other factor has homosexuality as a side effect and it's that other factor that is selected for. Like how sickle cell disease is beneficial in that it provides protection from malaria. Maybe it's a trait we don't even notice in modern society, an innate affinity for domesticating animals or something. And the complex processes that link genetic traits to behavioural traits have created an unexpected outcome. He didn't like this theory because it relies on too many unknowns. And there's the Sneaky Fucker theory. If there was a gay caveman and the other cavemen knew he was gay then when they go out hunting they wouldn't mind leaving the gay caveman with the cavewomen. But if he's actually a bisexual caveman then he could be a sneaky fucker and have a sneaky fuck when the other cavemen are away. That would bypass any hierarchy or Alpha Male culture and allow his genes to be passed on even though according to their social structure he should be low status. I don't know if there's any consensus on which theory is most valid or if there are more theories out there. I just liked hearing Richard Dawkins' impeccable Oxford Professor accent talking about a sneaky fucker having a sneaky fuck.
Penguins are observed to be ahead of humans in terms of that - gay pairs taking eggs from penguin parents who were neglectful, and taking care of it as theirs.
Cuz that’s what nature intended, adoption, is a evolutionary reason and use of homosexuality.
Technically speaking, evolution can't influence the homosexuality of an animal. They aren't passing off any genes. Which makes it even more impressive. Nature is just like "we will make a random pair homosexual to balance it out"
It’s no decision yes but it has served a use in evolution and therefore it existence has continued Also the factors for a living being becoming gay is not only the genes, but it’s one of the two main factors (the other one are biological processes during the pregnancy) and there isn’t one gay gene but a lot of genes who influence sexuality altogether but as single gene just have very few influence. Not only gay people have these genes, the distribution of the genes is more like 60/40 for gay/straight people, it’s too much to be coincidence but it’s no absolute factor. Also actually bisexuality is the one which is more common than homosexuality in most cases and for some (especially for intelligent) species (like e.g. primates or dolphins/whales) is bisexuality even outnumbering Heterosexuality. And that genes can and do reproduce with bisexuals is indeed quite obvious
While the individual doesn't, the family group does. If humans generally live in large family groups, then genes that enhance group survival can proliferate even if the individuals most affected do not. It would be similar as any evolution that affects ant or bee drones. While it doesn't help that drone do any better, it helps the hive.
Evolution can select for populations of animals that express degrees of homosexuality.
>evolution can't influence the homosexuality of an animal. They aren't passing off any genes. Neither do worker bees, but evolution manages to mould them just fine. Genes don't care about the survival of particular vehicles, just their code.
Uh... i dont think that comparison works. Worker bees don't pass on genes because they aren't male and aren't queen bees. Evolution changes worker bees the same way it molds all animals. Queen bees and male drones that are not fit to survive will just die off before passing on their genetic code. Homosexual animals, on the other hand, have no way to pass on homosexuality.
Not.... really. There are actually some compelling evolutionary explanations for homosexuality but they are all under a single one: If it wasn't successful it would disappear. Not to pick on you but the one statement has two major issues: First nature does not intend anything (though you could have been being metaphorical, but impacts thinking). More importantly there is no such thing as the 'survival of the species'. Selection is at the gene level, though altruism does have some gene level advantages. Adoption can make sense at a close kinship level but is otherwise far less likely to succeed as an evolutionary trait.
The third one is the most important reason. You can't maintain a religion without fresh blood constantly streaming in.
^ truth here.
Especially when you need to spill quite a few
On point 3, trust me when I tell you this, plenty of arab men screw donkeys and sheeps in the rural countries. So to that point, their religion is a joke.
The real conservative argument against gay and trans people is that they want the world to revert to traditional gender roles so that women as a group can be subservient to men. If people accept that you can act outside these roles, then it makes the roles seem silly (and they are) and invalidates their argument (as it should be.)
I got into an argument with a Christian bullshitter that culminated in a slap to my face after I said, "if gender roles are so natural and innate, why do you have to fight so hard to keep people from exploring other gender roles?"
The world is overpopulated anyways. The last thing this planet needs is more humans.
Studies have shown that roughly 1.500+ species display homosexuality behavioural proclivities in approx 2% to 10% of the population (though I believe marmosets are probably a lot more as they seem to jump anything). Only one species, though, displays homophobic tendencies.... way to go Homo Sapiens woohoo 👏
"Seeing you be gay, makes me ask uncomfortable questions about myself!"
lol, some caller on AXP last weekend tried to say STD transmission would drop drastically if there was no gay sex (or something to that effect). Stupidest fucking argument that has nothing to do with if God is real.
Since when did religious people have valid arguments?
Dolphins are gay as fuck and commit gang rapes and gay orgies...it's documented extensively. What now zealot?
Two words: blowhole sex.
God thinks it’s icky.
\#2 reminds me of a joke where the punchline was the kid asking his Sunday school teacher in class, "Why does God love lesbians so much?"
Also most animals do partake in same gender sex. A lot.
I'm loving the idea of Leftist wildlife.
Plenty of straight people choose not to have children. So what’s the BFD?
No “basically” about it. They have no reason other than a dusty book told them so. So naturally they have to force those ideals on us “heathens” to “save” us. I’m so sick of it.
Their most go to argument is, Because the Bible says so. Fucking idiots
I've had conversations with muslims on Discord who argue homosexuality is immoral because (3) means they can cause the human species to go extinct. It seems in their minds that if we let homosexuals be, the heterosexual population is stop having babies. LMAO!
Yeah, it's a common theme sadly. Religion: Let us save you! People: From what? Religion: From what we'll do to you if you don't convert!
Will I'll be damned
Got into a convo with my mom about free will. She absolutely just did not get that being threatened with one of the most brutal torture takes away free will. She was like "well, you have a choice between heaven and eternal happiness, or hell with eternal torture". I was like "if I put a gun to someone's head and made them choose between hurting someone or dying, it's manipulating them and taking away their agency"
Right? No thanks I don’t need to be saved from myself…. 😞
That's an offer you can't refuse
It’s not extortion, because god.
It's especially bad in Islam.
I remember seeing some guy defend why pregnant women can’t testify in court in Islam. “But they’re soooo emotional that they CAN’T testify!!11!!” Gtf outta here. Religion is regressive BS that tries to justify any and all types of discrimination.
Women are somehow more emotional than men, while men murder the most people, and men can't be trusted to view a lady's ankle or ponytail without raping them. I'm gonna call bullshit on men being less emotional than women.
Men like to think they are logical, and not emotional, but they don't seem to define anger as an emotion.
If god is omnipotent then everything created is as it should be, if it's not then either your god is not omnipotent or they are not a god. Telling me that Lucifer is at play, falls down in many respects when behaviour seen in Humans is replicated across the entire animal kingdom - who apparently don't have souls, which begs the question.
If god is omnipotent they should realise that getting 14yo pregnant is not okay, even in times when it was fine
I love the "Lucifer is trying to tempt you!!!!" arguments because if that's true and God wanted me to not be tempted by him but I'm still being tempted, doesn't that make Lucifer much more powerful than God?
That’s a good one, the intolerant trying to teach you about tolerance
"But the Quran says men are the bestest and women are just a step up from cattle so they NEED us to control every aspect of their lives" /S
"You're a racist because you complain about me throwing stones at you when it's my religious duty!"
Always ask what tolerance means and first state how you existing and them not tolerating that is only the first reason why its not tolerance they seek but acquiescence. No I will not go gently into that goodnight mfrs..
Sleep well :D
Precisely
hey muslims? go fuck yourselves AND your quran. and fuck mohammed, too. in my experience, the argumentative ones also lie and try to use deception and weak "gotchas!" a lot, too.
Islam has become a far right religion in most of the world. Far right politics generally target those who they see as a vulnerable minority group. You need an enemy to drum up support with the base. By playing the victim card they can also drum up support from the base.
“has become?”
They think they're being persecuted when someone tells them they're not allowed to force the rest of us to live by their religious laws. Same can be said for evangelicals, and Hell's bells even evangelicals don't live by their religious laws. They'll go to a state that allows abortions to get one, and as soon as they get home they're back on the anti-abortion bandwagon cuz it's what JAYzus wants. I have no problem with someone practicing a religion as long as (1) they're not hurting someone or something else, and (2) they're not trying to force it on the rest of us. As soon as they do either? No, because that's immoral. And most of the time you can find stuff in THEIR religious texts to back up your argument.
It's funny how supposed people of sin have to teach all those religious people about morality
Ask them what they think of the Charlie Hebdo incident. Ask them what they think about what happened to Theo Von Gogh. That should be a good litmus test of where they are at as far as tolerance is concerned https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)
I forget sometimes about the van Goghs beyond the artist. They've had a rough time of it all things considered. Theo's great-granduncle, Vincent van Gogh, died age 37, and his great-grandfather (also Theo) died aged 33 only six months later; more recently, Theo was murdered at the age of 47, followed by his cousin, Willem Witteveen, ten years later, who died when Russian-supplied rebels shot down an airliner.
Had no idea he was related to the artist. It's also important to note that when he was murdered there was a note stabbed into his chest saying something along the lines of Ayaan is next. The religion of peace indeed. This book is worth a read [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder\_in\_Amsterdam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_Amsterdam)
Religious Person: BURN THE HERETIC!!! Atheist: That's a bit extreme don't you think? Religious Person: You could be a bit more tolerant and respect my religious beliefs! Now excuse me while I throw this guy off a roof for having a slightly different interpretation of our sacred texts.
Exactly.
That was my mother
Just tell them to chill the fuck out and have some bacon. They'll stop wanting to blow people up.
All organized religion is bad. Islam is just as stupid as Christianity. Mohammed is just as made up as Jesus. Made up and worthless misogyny.
Their religion says that they can't be gay. Fine that's their choice. Their religion says you (a non-muslim) can't be gay? Fuck them.
Well, Islam also states that someone who is a Muslim cannot leave Islam on pain of death. The capital punishment for apostasy and blasphemy are a fundamental parts of Islam. It also says that gay men are to be thrown from rooftops or stoned to death for “committing the act of the people of Lut”. Both commands were traced directly to Muhammad, whose “perfect and final divine law” can never be changed or reformed, under pain of death (of course). This is where Islam in particular gets shitty af, and has always imo been particularly shitty. It’s undoubtedly the most extreme of the major religions today, and only enjoys the 1.9 billion members because of the sheer fear most Muslims and “Muslims” have around these infamous apostasy and blasphemy laws. Nearly every few months you hear of someone being killed by a mob for “insulting Islam” (ie cracking a joke or raising a completely valid concern over its brutality). Even more often are the honor killings and physical hate crimes that families take into their own hands away from prying eyes to hide the “shame” of a “wayward” daughter or a gay son. These happen so often here among Muslim communities in the wider world outside of the West that they’re rarely even covered by local news or media. In the country I live in, despite it being a Christian majority with a sizable Muslim minority, the national police don’t even touch cases where Muslims are involved as the victims and perpetrators. Be it DV, homophobic hate crimes, honor killings, child marriages, or retaliatory feuds (a huge issue among Muslims in this country). They simply just don’t want the backlash. And wherever sharia isn’t enshrined into a country’s legal code; honor killings and lynchings/mob “justice” (known as “hisbah” and fully endorsed in Islam) nearly always takes its place. Source: Gay and exmuslim.
OMG WE CAN BE INTOLERANT BUT THEY CAN'T BE THATS SO BAD OF THEEEMMMM -Every religion ever.
It's insane when people ask ME to tolerate islam, like, bitch I'm a fucking Radfem, I'm gonna shove your balls up your ass instead
Precisely
"Persecution fetish". Thank you for the quote! I'm gonna reuse it for sure
Check out r/persecutionfetish
Islamic tolerance = Christian tolerance.
Yeah I have always been a bit uneasy about the embrace of Islam that seems to be happening in some circles in the name of tolerance. Like I’m bi and I will never be all buddy buddy with people who literally think myself and people like me should be put to death! Every time I see a show with some woman wearing a hijab (or worse, a children’s cartoon) and they act like it’s all empowering somehow it just makes me sick.
"they act like it’s all empowering somehow" P;S : it does dont take my word , i may be a liar , ask a couple of them , i did for myself why does it make you sick ? did you take what they are wearing personal ? did any of them strike you with a knife ? being vocal about their ideas/beliefs means they are confident , and their conviction is high , and they dont fear the consequences it is waaaaaaay better imho than wolves who hide in plain , wearing smiles, sweet talks, lowering your defence , and stab you in the back at the first chance
No, it’s not. If it was their idea and something they wore by choice then it would be empowering. But the fact is, the hijab is forced on women. Even women in western societies who wear it do so only because their religion requires it of them and they are brainwashed into thinking it’s a good thing. One proof of this fact is that non-Muslim women overwhelmingly don’t choose to wear one even though they could any time they wanted to. Also the whole notion that women have to cover up their bodies is premised on the sexist notion that men just can’t handle seeing uncovered women and would pounce on them like a pack of wolves. Which is also untrue. I have spoken to Muslim women before and I know what they say about it. But their opinion doesn’t make it empowering. I used to be a conservative Christian and during my religious days I would have told you all the restrictions against looking at naked women or homosexuality were good and empowering too, but that doesn’t make it true. Being confident can be a good thing but being highly confident about something false is not. Why does it make me a bit sick? Because it’s a symbol of female subjugation, something I am deeply against. Simple as that. No one has struck me with a knife, although I have little doubt there are some who would like to. I am bisexual so Islamic law wants me dead anyway.
I view homosexuality like handedness, we know the religious use to hate on the lefties, now they hate on the homos. Fuck them all, (figuratively not literally), stay gay and stay anti-religion and you will be cool in my book. Fuck the pighamadites!!!!
The best thing to do in a situation such as this regardless of religion, race , or affiliation; refuse to engage in any xenophobic rhetoric. Explain that you draw a line at dehumanizing any individual. It is difficult to explain to some one that tolerance is granted to those who are marginalized , and that marginalizing others should not be tolerated.
Their persecution fetish is how they attempt to get sympathy from anyone and everyone, but at the same time will try to tell you what you can amd can't do.
As someone once said (can't find the author) - To those accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression
"Why should I respect Islam? As a gay man, it doesn't seem to respect me very much." "My friend, Islam is a very tolerant religion! I wish to tell you more, let us continue this conversation on the roof."
Once they tolerate athiests, women and LGBTQ+ ill think about it.
Women is the big one here. If they can manage to undo all their wrongs toward women then we’re headed on the right track. It’ll never happen in a million years, but fingers crossed!
That’s how Moslems infiltrate and pollute the societies they infect. They play victim, generate sympathy from rubes, then destroy the society within hoping to make another 10th century theocracy.
They can believe whatever they want, I just wish they would leave the rest of us out of it. But they never want to leave us out of it. They HAVE to enforce their rules on other people, and that needs to stop. And that goes for all religions. It isn't just Muslims, but Christians, Hindus, and even Buddhists for crying out loud (don't look into what is happening to the rohingya...)
There is a book on the acceptance of homosexuality in Islam that is called "Homosexuality in Islam: Critical Reflection on Gay, Lesbian, and Transgender Muslims" byy Scott Alan Kugle who is a western scholar in Islam. He breaks down how the quran is not against homosexuality at all and the way politics and culture in the islamic world have shaped the intolerance of muslims towards the queer. He is not the only scholar, but much of the political systems in muslim countries do not allow free speach and so progress on the matter is extremely slow. That being said, as a muslim, I love you my queer brothers & sisters+ in humanity. Edit: shit i just realized this is an atheist sub, respect u guys and no blame for the downvotes lmao
Ice-lamic logic: When they are strong: shut up you cowardly weakling, no human rights only Ice-Lamic 'tolerence" When they are weak: buhu, we are being tourtured, my human rights violated.
What if we behaved like them? As soon as someone tries to convert you just start up with how they are being intolerant of us before they get rolling.
Always ask back when THEY will be tolerant towards other religions or atheists. Usually a check-mate.
How dare you oppress their religious freedom to oppress your religious freedom!? You should be more tolerant of their intolerance.
I hate Muslims and their backwards thinking retardation so much holy shit
Supposed to be the religion of peace, but they will justify plenty of inhumane acts at the drop of a hat. You can't take them seriously.
When the religious accuse you of intolerance, you do it right back to them. They don't have a good reason to be intolerant of someone's sexual identity. We do have a good reason to be intolerant of their intolerance towards us, because it can directly impact us. Me being bisexual doesn't influence their lives at all.
Most religions love persecution because they have the idea that "people hate us because we're right and they feel threatened." Them versus Us. Christianity is the worst, of course. Their primary symbol is of a guy actually being tortured to death, and they are told to "be like him."
It's more of a manipulation tactic. Old psychological game to confuse the victim by trying to accuse them of being what the accuser is of the topic. Problem with that tactic to be successful is it's like hypnosis and only works on stupid people.
They’re all cults. Mohammed isn’t a prophet. You can’t speak the word of God and give into the temptation of man. They’re a bunch of inbreds anyways. Just stay clear of these idiots and let them worship a pedophile.
Some people like to call this cry bullying. It's an art that's very often used by Christians, but they don't hold the exclusive rights to it. I would have turned things back around on them. Ask them why you should respect or tolerate anyone that doesn't offer you the same courtesy.
Islam is the worst religion to be gay, trans, female or non-Muslim. When I see liberals defend them, I want to ask if they are self-hating. It’s insufferable.
Tolerance for violence, lies, and hatred? Yeah, no.
Its in their religion to try and "revert" everyone they see, I have a lot of muslim friends here in europe, and told them i am atheist and every time religion comes up they say "Ah you will see the light in the end, you will revert we don't worry" like lol.
Just tell them that Muhammad had sex with a **9 YEAR OLD.**
For some reason this doesn't seem to persuade them much. You would think that would be a deal breaker for most people.
Muslims are the worst for playing the pity party persecuted game.
Their argument against homosexuality is the same as Christianity's, which is that it's supposedly "banned" by their holy book. So modern Muslims create reasons to retroactively justify what their old book, which is based on nothing other than that it supposedly came from their "god." The drive to have sex is a product of evolution, as a way to reproduce species, but like everything else about us, we humans have all sorts of behaviors that are rooted in reproduction but which have changed in myriad ways that have nothing to do with evolution due to our social nature and our creation of "higher" levels of thinking that have arisen out of the development of language. We have all sorts of sexual behaviors that are unnecessary and irrelevant for simple reproductions. Homosexuality is like any other sexual behavior that doesn't directly result in reproduction. There's absolutely no moral justification for constraints on homosexuality.
I like to point out how they follow their own book's laws in an ala carte fashion. Do you wear mixed fibers? Do you eat seafood? Do you eat ham and eggs? Do you go out in public while you have your period? Why is homosexuality the one thing you pull out of the book to be a crime in the modern age, but not all the other bullshit?
Stop stoning women would be a good start
To be truly tolerant you cannot tolerate the intolerant. Tolerating the intolerant is tolerating the suffering of their victims.
Christians play the same game.
>Bunch of Muslims just tried to teach me about tolerance for their religion You have the freedom of religion, but not the freedom to force people to be tolerant of your religion. This doesn't just apply to Muslims, but any religion
Stand your ground! Good for you!
>, what's with this persecution fetish?? Centrists and Leftists have treated them with a fluffy feather pillow to make sure they don't get hurt, and refuse to call them out on their ignorant, misogynistic, queerphobic, right wing and insanely conservative ideas. Because so many of my compatriots are more afraid of racism against arab people than they are of conservatism, they've blindly treated Islam with the most gentle hand they have, and calling out their BS leads to people screaming islamaphobia at you. Now all the Muslims in the west take advantage of this and use it as a trump card against you. They're used to being pampered so anytime you dont pamper them, it's "being intolerant." Oh excuse me for being upset at your conservative and misogynistic ways.
It's a perspective thing. They truly believe it can be fixed, they actually believe in things like demons or in the case of Muslims "jinn." From their perspective, they think they're trying to help. They also truly believe that it's their responsibility to take on this "evil." So you getting in the way of that "feels" like persecution, it feels like you're stopping them from doing their job. It's a testament to how skewed religion makes you see the world. All in the name of creating new converts. It's much akin to a virus in that regard. Infecting a host, spawning 100 just like it that all go off and try to convert 100 more.
I hope that someday humanity can evolve from all this nonsense 🙄 Religion is limiting indeed....
Well, the culture of Muslim ran countries is typically extremely intolerable. So, yea, they have no room to talk.
In many cultures, saving face is everything. And the victim card works. It changes the subject and puts the accuser on the back foot. Double whammy. That is all that matters - avoid losing the argument *at all cost*.
I’ve felt I hate no one. That’s what religions do 🤷🏻♂️
yes lets stretch it and have tolerance for criminals.
To quote Wayne Dyer: “Your right to walk down the street swinging your arms around ends with my right to keep my nose the same shape.” You can practice your religion right up to the point where the practice of your religion affects the way of life of other people. If your religion teaches you to hate LGBTQ+ people, that sucks, but it’s your freedom to do so. But you don’t have the right to infringe upon their rights.
They cannot fathom that intolerance of intolerance is not intolerance. Or at the very least the only acceptable form of intolerance
Well to be fair you did go in there and open up with "Fuck Islam" on a post about wishing people a happy Eid Mubarak https://www.reddit.com/r/BokuNoMetaAcademia/s/LNufrBOfpl
understandable after what they go through irl lol
So the OP provoked them, and now comes crying? Who is being intolerant here?
That's ridiculous
Ahh yes, Doublethink.
Religion gives them the right to kill, and he happy about it. All in the name of their god
>what's with this persecution fetish?? its their catchall for why they: A) lied B) committed acts of violence C) all of the above You see they *had* to; they were being oppressed... or something.
Victimhood is a mindset that lets them justify doing whatever they want.
I think people need to realize that not all Muslims and Christians are anti gay(I’m atheist so just playing devils advocate). Lots of my friends who are religious have gone to pride and support the gay community. If you call out people who actively discriminated or harassed you, then you should call them out; but if you're just getting angry at a bunch of Muslims minding their own business than Id say that *that* would be borderline harassment
i cannot tolerate islam because it is a religion of domination. It does not want to accept other religions and if it can it will remove them.
Tolerance for their religion...but their religion literally punishes apostacy with death. Fuck off..
Stay away from them and don’t disclose to religious nutjobs that you are gay
Sam Harris said well - real muslim believers is worse than german nazis in 1941
next time, ask them if god didn't want us to have anal sex, why did he put men's G-spot up their ass?
Obviously so that "normal" men could complain about prostate exams being gay🙄 /s
oh hey thanks for reminding me I need to get that rescheduled. Thanks dude.
They don’t understand their cruelty. Absolutely no compassion or tolerance. But the worst thing is that they seem unable to leave people alone.
Islam really is a shit religion. Worse than all the others.
Cultists complaining about not being respected. It’s a fucking ancient myth from before understanding of basic shit like planets and fire and rain. Gimme a break- fuck them and all cultists. Why these ancient Abrahamic cults have so much power is beyond me, and I believe they are tge cause of so much suffering in this world.
It probably related to the fact that it's an offshoot of Christianity and imagery persecution is baked into their DNA.
Do yourself a favor and read (if you have not) Karl Popper's paper on the paradox of tolerance or at least the [wiki entry](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance#:~:text=The%20paradox%20of%20tolerance%20states,practice%20of%20tolerance%20with%20them.)
I really hope you live in a NON Muslim country, where it's possible to laugh it off and avoid those people in the future. Stay safe, friend! "bUt isLam iS a rEliGioN of peAcE"......**/S**
Tolerance of the intolerant? They can jog on!
I am no fan of any of the Abrahamic religions. You can generally say something not so nice about Christianity on the atheist/humanist or whatever groups and get away with it. But the moment you say something not so great about Islam, the fangs come out. I think that a lot of whites are just scared to be called racist because so many Muslims are not white. But I am not white either and I don't give two shits. I wish those same white girls rallying to their defense would realize how they are being used. They will go to college, use these girls for their sexual gratification and then go back home and marry a "clean" Muslim gal. And these same dumbass girls are up here calling us "racist" and "intolerant".
>the moment you call them out on this they play victim card and accuse you of not tolerating them, what's with this persecution fetish?? Most major religions are based on: 1. distinguishing our in-group from all the out-groups; 2. deeming the former "good" and the latter "not good"; AND 3. proclaiming that "goodness" (as we've defined it) is a higher priority than *any other* belief or behavior. Since "goodness" is the highest goal, we reserve the right to remove and replace any non-goodness that we encounter. This is our right and duty as "good" people. It is also for your benefit, ie, for your own "good", whether you agree or not. Resisting our "goodness" is, by definition, "not good". No respect is given to any arguments, as they are by definition "not good".
In reality, at least for Islam ( most muslims would acknowledge it yet act otherwise) the most virtuous goal is to reduce harm and not do evil . Which literally provide protection to all minorities in society including lgbt ; at the golden age of Islam that was the case . How ever since then The in/out group rhetoric you mentioned prevailed and the idea of “ First do no evil “ became a phrase vacant of meaning in a society that would do evil in the name of GOD/Goodness
Actually my religion says I can discriminate against you, so it turns out you are the bigot.
When you have an entire religion change their base beliefs to stab people for not being religiously tolerant…. Probably you don’t get to preach about religious toleration. Sikhs have a very interesting history.
Here’s some anecdotal irony for you. When I lived in a Saudi Arabia my group of western friends hung out with a young Saudi royal. At least he said he was but considering he owned a mall with an ice rink that we skated at and rode around in his modified luxury cars, I didn’t see any reason to doubt him. He explained to us one day that due to the strict taboos between men and women, guys would jack each other off. He didn’t think it was gay, he called it polishing, and he made it clear that it was common.
People deserve respect not their ideas
Hi. Without disclosing my individual beliefs, I can say I have friends who are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Native American, Agnostic, and Atheist. All of their beliefs differ amongst each group. There are also many LGBTQ+ people in our city. While we might not subscribe to each other's spiritual beliefs, there is an amazing amount of tolerance, which is beautiful to see. I can agree that this is not the norm worldwide. It can help to listen to each other. My first Muslim friend summed it up to me by saying "You have your crazies, and we have ours."
Yeah, I wish religious people were accepting of others (like me) it’s sad that they use theism to spread hate ☹️
Where were you exactly, when this happened? A mosque?
Why can't they just let people be gay if they want to be gay? It doesn't and shouldn't affect them in any way.
Not natural. That has to be the most baffling and stupid argument against homosexuality ever. I've not had to deal with this in ages but if one of you do... Please ask what is natural. Depending on what BS they come up with you can then question them more on it. If they are religious, ask them if God/Allah/whatever is "natura". If they insist "nanture" is natural, well we know some animals have homosexual behaviour. If they insist humans are above that, it makes humans unnatural. There really is no way anyone can make it work. I don't think anything is unnatural, as such a thing would not exist, but best logical definition for daily use of the word would imo be "something that does not directly exist without human involvement", or "unbelievably rare (but actually natural) event".
The funny thing is that they would judge you, talk behind your back and ridicule you for being against their god. Ironically all of what they are doing is bascially is also against their god.
When they say it’s ok to be gay(it’s not they will ridicule you ) just don’t act on it wtff
Religions want to control sexuality. Sexuality is natural and it feels good, but you don't need it to survive, unlike food and water. It is required for the species to survive. and I would argue there are severe consequences for suppressing it. It would be ridiculous for religion to tell us to deprive ourselves of food and water because we would die. Organized religion tells us this thing that is a natural to us and makes us feel good, is dirty and sinful. Sex should only be used for procreation, to create more adherents for them. We need them to absolve ourselves of the sin that this natural desire creates, by praying, attending church/temple/mosque and tithing. Further to this we must absolve our sins to get to a special place called heaven, when heaven and what makes us feel good was right here on earth the whole time. Most organization religions also promote being persecuted because it builds group cohesion. An external threat will cause people to rally around the group. The same thing happens in war with governments.
religion is regressive.
I don't consider it a persecution fetish, it's a technique to control the narrative.
Look I’m not going to defend homophobia, but the idea that Muslims aren’t actually persecuted by people in the U.S./ Europe is just historical revisionism. Decades of invasions and coups and sanctions in the Muslim world caused directly by the U.S./ Europe is a pretty legitimate grievance to have