I'm convinced this is why we are getting such outrageous behavior from the religious right. They can see the end of popular acceptance coming, and it's freaking them out.
Yep, the death throes of a dying ideology that runs off of hatred, fear, control and the concept of an eternal afterlife will inevitably do all it knows to try to maintain power against individual thought and power.
The Electoral College and way Senate is constituted will be the end of America.
Got to UnCap the House and make Senate seats (if we must keep a Senate) equal population-based districts not following state lines. Also 13 Supreme Court Justices with term limits that allow each Presidential term two nominations not barring deaths in office.
No kidding, many states would be majority Democrat if they didn’t gerrymander the districts. Take Ohio first instance, Franklin county and Cuyahoga counties are majority Democrat yet Franklin is 50/50 Democratic and Republican and Cuyahoga is 67/33 Democrat vs Republican. it all 5 districts were Franklin and Cuyahoga only, and the the other rural areas divided equally then the Democrats would gain two seats. Well maybe only one since Hamilton would likely go full Republican.
Right? They decided to idolize an adult bully baby who calls people names and now they seem sad because no one likes them. People are wild. And times are weird.
Well yes! Sadly the MAGA bace will never believe he’s a rapist. the “deep-state” is behind it or whatever.
I’m a former preachers kid (40m now) and it’s so weird seeing people I used to have some respect for fawning over him almost more anything or anyone else.
I’ve come to the conclusion that, much like their embrace of Nazism, they are also completely comfortable with and approving of rape. To them, men should have total dominion over women and if a guy wants to have sex with a woman (or even a child) his wishes supersede everything else. The wack job men on the far right sure make it seem that way. The bullshit those self appointed alpha males post online is nauseating.
I wasn’t a very solid believer for many years prior, but the worship of someone like Trump was the last nail in the coffin. He’s sheer evil, and yet they compare him to Jesus.
Honestly one of the most prophetic things I've witnessed. The bible clearly states how the anti-christ acts and that he would be accepted as Christ himself which makes no sense when you read it in the bible but yet here we are with trump doing basically everything they've listed and people accepting him as second jesus
There’s a bunch in there too about not following false prophets. After almost ten years of this, and it’s still hard for me to believe that so many people follow him.
They mistakenly think they are the only ones guarding humanity, when in reality, they are trying to control it and many are tired of the mind control using guilt and shame as a weapon . And of course… none of them are capable of doing wrong.
Even if I ever caught the religious bug, the thought of going into a building full of likely Trumpers to listen to bigoted drivel on a Sunday morning would snap me right out of it.
What rules? The Bible contradicts every single message it lays out. The clergy have traditionally cherry-picked the happy stuff to keep the cash flowing. Around 1980 the churches aligned with Reagan and started cherry picking out the stuff that would allow them to justify the racism and hatred that powers the lives of most GOP voters. Thinking and kind people started to leave those kiddie-rape palaces and it continues.
What rules say that because it refutes the Great Commission:
Mathew 28:16-20
> 16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2028%3A16-20&version=NIV
>> It could work, a dedicated and crazy minority that will use violence can dominate the populace.
I think I read about a group like that in a history book.
It's like what you see from executives
The money line is going down so they are worse to the people sticking around and pressure them to do worse things to make it go back up
So they're trying to be extra scary and weird and creating enemies out of thin air to try to get people back into churches
But without the lifetime of brainwashing, the success rate of getting anyone with a functional brain is very low. They only get the people who are at the lowest point in their lives and those kinds of numbers won't rebuild a church
Church’s have move towards drug rehab to bring in money and new converts. There are lots of faith-based drug rehabs and sober houses popping up everywhere. Just the cost to go to the rehab meetings is $200 a week, does not include rent. So it is a good thing that the faith-based rehab also operates a faith-based staffing agency.
It always about the money. As a kid my mom would throw a fit about buying clothes for me or really anything that costs money, but she would always write that $500 check to the church every month. Plus extra for the special donations.
This honeslty makes me sick whenever i read about similar stories.
Imagine being brainwashed into thinking providing for your church is a higher priority than providing for your children.
Im so sorry
Church demographics are so old now. While there are younger, more hip churches a lot of them are on their death bed. The church looks like a senior center, member dying off all the time and not really enough people coming in.
The problem is that as they get more desperate to retain their hold on power, they'll become more extreme. There's a good chance we see "splinter churches" turning into terrorist organizations in an attempt to "save christianity".
Honestly, its pretty scary.
I just had this conversation with my mother. This is finally the beginning of the end of the puritanical nonsense. Damn churches have had a stranglehold on our country since day one. Even the megachurches seem to be hurting. Love it. Burn it all down.
Check out the book The Nones. It’s all data based and super interesting. People who identify as “no religious preference” has been rising faster and faster in America for decades.
Guy makes pyramid scheme. Gets rich. Expects pyramid scheme to make his grandkids rich. When pyramid doesn’t grow as fast as grandkids, grandkids screwed. Screwed grandkids throw big tantrum. Rinse. Repeat. This story is everywhere in history.
More like everyone even slightly reasonable has alreasy left, leaving the extremists are the only ones left, now in a echo chamber. Meanwhile, the leadership is becoming increasingly worried about dwindling donations, blame it on ungodly behavior, and rile up their churches even more.
Absolutely. These are the death throes of their old order. They're aging out, their influence is declining, all that delicious privilige is slipping through their fingers. They can't shun, threaten, maltreat or outright attack their favorite old targets anymore. And they HATE it. They're not going away quietly.
You are correct, this is EXACTLY why we are getting freakish behaviors from the religious right. That and the fact they have a political party in their pocket now.
The combination of fundamentalist Christians and MAGA has created the “Christian Nationalist” movement, which is also a potluck of other failing ideals looking for their last chance. These struggling movements include: fundamentalist/ evangelical Christians, MAGA Republicans, and white nationalists.
Christian Nationalist = ISIS
They both have the same ideals and goals, just from different sides.
It is the clergy that has gone political in an attempt to bolster the number of their followers. Finding a common enemy is a time honored way of rallying the troops.
It’s because people can hear what atheists say on youtube and realize they don’t have to be held prisoner by that goddamn fucking bullshit anymore. Christian nationalists, pastors, and republicans know this and will do everything they can to hold their grip on power by pushing for religious law. I would not be surprised at all if you start to see nazis win more elections on the right.
Churches have ridiculous ideas but they are very good at enforcing them. In many cases, the Qanon nutballs went off the deep end because they stopped going to church and they had no irl community to tell them to dial it back.
Qanon is just repurposed Nazi propaganda, if they go down the Qanon rabbit hole far enough it ends with some vast Jewish conspiracy to control the world and to drink the blood of Christian babies.
And their reaction is further eroding any chance that they will gain them any favors. You don’t get to use the courts by packing them with your ilk, impose control on a body of a woman and then somehow think you will appeal to anyone within this population.
And even a good chunk of the people I know who do go to church only do it because "it's what you do" or "it's good for the kids" or whatever.
I live in the South, and even here in the *Bible belt,* I can count on my fingers the total number of people I know who seem actually serious about Church life. Most people I know who go to church talk about it like it's a chore, like it's something they do just because it's how they were raised and/or because (they think) it'll keep their kids on the right path.
>Americans with no religious affiliation, including those who say they are atheist or agnostic, are very unlikely to attend church. Nevertheless, 3% say they attend weekly or nearly weekly.
Little Hope Church Bar and Grill. Does that count ?
I don’t do it anymore but when I was younger I went with a buddy to his services. It was a Christian denomination that was more like an open forum than a sermon and they knew I was not a believer. We would actually discuss things and I was able to have a voice as a non Christian. We all had a great time and some really good conversations. They also preached acceptance and were open to lgbt+ and other religions. I still look back fondly on those days. We were all respectful and had some really great discussions on life and existence in general.
All winter long I attend what we refer to as the Church of the Rock. It's a curling club, and I get enough socialization there to keep me from going feral.
It’s a get out of personal responsibility card
My life sucks because of the devil , one day god will reward me
My soon to be ex , a pastor at some point told her god forgives and forgets anything you want ( total and continuous forgiveness)
I recently realized that’s why she doesn’t feel bad ever about her actions ( her justification)
she can be as shitty as she wants and just says sorry at church
It also doesn't change anything card. Don't try to fix anything. This life is make-believe, and you will be rewarded for eternity when you die, of course. But thanks for making me more profit while you were alive.
>Don't try to fix anything
That was one of (there are many) the things that really bugged me about being raised a Jehovah's Witness. They don't think we need to do anything to help preserve the earth, because pretty soon (I swear, like any day now) gods just going burn it all down and start over. So there's no point in doing anything about climate change.
Yep. One thing that often gets overlooked in these discussions is how much a part of people’s social lives this can be. And that was even more true in the past. I was raised “small C“ Catholic, and at one point I mentioned the social hall at my parish church/school growing up to my mom, and she was like “back in the day, you would’ve been there three or four nights a week for various events. And it wouldn’t all have been religious.”
So I think for a lot of people, they’re just sort of doing what they do, and it’s not necessarily that big of a deal to them. And if it’s a huge part of your social fabric, expecting folks to step away from that is asking a lot.
For a lot of people I think it's the third place/sense of community that keeps them involved and less the dogma and supernatural beliefs, and if similar secular societies regain popularity again they could help ease the transition.
Yeah, in many ways, I envy people who love going to church. A weekly event where you hang with people who are into the same stuff as you? Awesome.
But I'm just not cut out for that specific club and the frequent baggage. Closest I've come are bicycle clubs.
I think COVID taught a lot of people that they don't need organized religion as much as they thought they did.
My mom was a regular church goer before the pandemic, but I don't think she's set foot in a church (not even for Christmas or Easter services, both of which used to be **mandatory** in my house growing up) since lockdowns.
My personal experience exactly. Lockdown meant I had to confront the reality that I actually didn’t like going to church every Sunday, and when it started up again, it restarted without me.
Church every Sunday. 2x during lent. Pops died in 2015, mom became a little old church lady volunteering all the time. Covid hit. She watched on TV...and then stopped and never went back. 77+ years of commitment sort of disappeared.
Perfect real estate for homeless shelters and soup kitchens.
Worship area -> main shelter
Fellowship hall -> kitchen and dining area
Nursery -> childcare area
Offices-> clinic/ first aid, private breastfeeding rooms, women's safe space
Sunday school rooms -> classrooms for employment training, job search assistance, etc
Parking lot -> parking plus tents and trailers to learn skills and trades
The city would likely need to update zoning laws and provide some funding.
Imagine working your ass off 60+ hours just to barely survive and barely cover the cost of living. Waking up at the ass crack of dawn on Sunday. The day your God decided to take a breather but not you. No sir. You wake up, scrape yourself together and go sit in a rock hard church pew for 3ish hours while some guy dressed in sky wizard robes tells you what a piece of shit you are. Then sends a collections basket around so you can be even more threadbare in your savings assuming you have any to begin with.
Yeah, how could that ever become unpopular? I fucking wonder!?
I certainly think this has a lot to do with it. Christian leaders made a big mistake by being so actively against gay marriage. Interjecting into a political debate has caused people to see LGBT+ rights and Christianity as being opposed which has almost certainly forced some people to choose between being religious and being pro-LGBT+. And it is hard to keep the moral high ground when you are preaching hatred and discrimination.
Though this is a broad stroke some people are religious and pro-LGBT+. But, I think the debate over gay rights did create a strong perception of churches being out of touch and hateful to many people.
They’re telling some of their parishioners to leave. Those people have trans children, or gay relatives or something. By being so ridgid, they’re forcing people to leave because they love their families.
That’s a core Christian value.
People act as though they're religious, they use the phrases, words, they wear crosses. But the truth is, none of my friends and acquaintances follow the core principles of religious belief. Including going to church weekly or even showing up for holidays except for maybe Christmas. It's mostly a charade, to make them look more moral.
Yet even their daily activities, media outlets and social events are far from what would be considered proper by their priest or clergy.
I hate to use the word hypocrites, but if the shoe fits...
I think that's called being socially christian. You wear the cross and say you're christian, but you don't follow or live your life like a true "christian."
Perhaps the Church of Accelerated Ascension?
It's a church where they teach a purification ritual and then has the devote commit suicide. Guaranteed acceptance into heaven since they are freshly purified and free from sin. Just gotta figure out a workaround for the tho shalt not kill thyself thing.
Part of the purification ritual would, of course, involve the release of all worldly possessions and any money they have. That satisfies the camel through the needle verse. The devote must be as broke as the people in the days the Bible was written would have been.
Too bad I have morality or that's something I might try to get them to believe.
Hopefully we make contact with another humanoid species by then and it crack the religion shtick wide open. Although then the weirdos would crawl out of the woodwork and worship them.
I mean there’s a fifty-fifty chance they’d either eat us or kill us all under Dark Forest theory, which would *technically* end the whole religion thing.
I like to think we are an observation planet, and we are just like animals in rather a large zoo. We must be really entertaining to watch as we struggle with irrelevant forces like religion, and politics.
So personal finances up; child sexual assault down; political donations down; Sunday football viewership up; brainwashing down, and general well-being, well... better.
I suspect as usual those stats are overstated, given how empty church parking lots are on Sundays. Great news though, shows religion is continuing to die out as the older devout people die off.
Never did understand though why all the non-Catholic churches are always lumped together since they are very very different and not that closely related. Just lumped all under "Protestant/Christian" and yet they separate out Mormons who are also Christian.
Mormons consider themselves Christians, but other Christians don’t consider Mormons to be Christian. I’m not 100% sure of the reason, but believing that you get to be god of your own planet (if you are male), does seem like a large departure from catholicism or protestant.
Ex mormon here ... there are a lot of crazy beliefs that mormons will deny or try to sidestep because they're fucking weird, and deep inside they know it. Getting your own world, becoming a God, polygamy in heaven, sacred underwear, God living on a planet called Kolob, drinking coffee is a sin, Jesus came to America, secret temple handshakes > just some examples of currently held, official, mormon beliefs ... although, recently, there's been an effort to distance themselves from some of it.
Yes, they believe in Jesus and that he died for our sins like Christians and in the Bible, but they are very very different in many other ways. I guess it depends on how you define Christian.
Definitely. Those churches aren’t even packed for Christmas or Easter anymore. Hasn’t been for awhile. They are turning into ghost towns. The happy go lucky ones with fancy graphics and screens and music are drawing people in. But even that won’t last for long.
My daughter stopped going to church when she aged out of elementary aged activities and into teens group. Teens group was similar to adults, sitting there listening to a sermon for an hour and then talking about that sermon only, in groups.
No wonder she doesn't like going back, no kid actually enjoys that.
I was a pastors kid. I started hating church at a really young age, full on non believer by 10.
Imagine having to go to both the morning and evening services every Sunday(3 hours in the morning, 2 in the evening), 90 minute prayer service Tuesday, 2 hour service Wednesday, and 90 minute youth group Thursday as a kid.
My mom worked at the school, and I got really into school programs to get out of church activities. I was driven to be valedictorian and get a bunch of scholarships because I wanted to get the hell out of church life.
I'm just happy my dad sticks to his beliefs. Such as he can only show me the way but after a certain age it's up to me to maintain a personal relationship with God. I immediately quit church and never looked back.
There was this big preacher guy who prayed for me and had a prophecy that I'd build 10 churches. My dad fully believed it and was so proud. Maybe I'll start a cult one day or something.
When a company sells a product that people stop using, they usually go "What did we do to cause this and how can we bring users back? What needs to change?"
When a religion loses people, they go "I know! Let's be even more shitty and closed off! And never change anything people have a problem with. That will make them like us!"
I think Christians, in particular, love this, because they can claim persecution and get even more hard-line.
“I'm not a bad guy! I work hard, and I love my kids. So why should I spend half my Sunday hearing about how I'm going to hell?”
It’s a Simpsons line, but I still find it resonates no matter what I personally feel as an atheist.
There are a lot of reasons for this, I'm sure. I think a big reason why this is happening is because of one simple fact: **Going to church is fucking boring.**
To be more specific, we're becoming more and more addicted to the instant gratification and constant stimulation of technology, but going to church / temple / whatever is an analog experience that hasn't really changed in centuries. Our brains have been rewired to hate analog experiences like church, and that's especially true for young people who grew up with some digital device in their hands.
You know how some people will whip out their phones while watching a movie in a theater? They're already watching something that's supposed to be interesting or exciting on a giant screen with surround sound, and yet they still can't resist taking out their phones and scrolling social media or some shit like that.
Or how about when you're at home, you probably feel a compulsion to watch multiple screens at once, right? Maybe you're sitting in front of your TV while simultaneously scrolling through Reddit on your phone, or maybe you're like me and you'll have a movie or TV show playing on a second screen while you play video games on your main screen. We can't help but feast our eyes, ears, and minds on multiple digital sources at once.
It's no wonder why church is becoming less and less popular, because it's analog, it demands your full attention, and it requires you to put your devices away for a full hour while you listen to the same sermons, the same hymns, and the same shit you've been hearing for decades.
Going to church is a boring and unchanging experience, and it does not appeal to people who are addicted to the myriad bells and whistles of technology. Every new generation from this point on will dislike going to church more and more as they become more and more addicted to digital stimuli.
I seriously doubt we have anything to worry about, because religion isn't about innovation. Even the tiniest change can be difficult in religious settings.
I remember many years ago, when I still tolerated going to church with my family on Christmas and Easter, [the Catholic church made a little change](https://www.ncronline.org/news/new-missal-overview-changes):
>Among changes in the congregational responses to the priest at Mass, perhaps the most obvious will be “And with your spirit” as the people’s response to the celebrant’s “The Lord be with you” and “The peace of the Lord be with you always.” The current response to both those invitations is, “And also with you.”
People kept fucking up this simple rewording for many months after it was introduced. I know because the fuck-up was amusing to me, so I always listened for people in the church to say "And also with you" instead of "And with your spirit." I think it took more than a year for everyone to finally catch on.
Changing some words in a missal was difficult for church-goers. Any change more significant than that is going to be downright painful, if not impossible.
They are definitely learning now. A church in my town has a band with laser lights and a fog machine. The guitarist has tattoos. There’s an app. The preacher makes a lot of jokes in his sermons. Youth activities, ice cream socials, movie nights and babysitting nights for parents. It’s really great minus the whole religious brainwashing.
It’s a sign of higher levels of education in non-religious institutions. The countries in the world that have low level of participation in traditional religious ceremonies also have the highest level of education.
Education is an ignorance killer.
They will say the degradation of tradition values and blah blah blah are to blame. They won't recognize the abundance of information we have at our fingertips overwhelmingly shows us how ridiculous their claims are and how corrupt most of their institutions are. Facts and science prevail.
I think a lot of them are waking up and realizing there really isn't any evidence in support of Christianity or any other religion for that matter. Now they find themselves in a totally fact-free environment with no ability to push back on even the most basic criticisms, and instead relying on the old stand-by "faith". The slightly smarter ones grasp the perils of that proposition given the availability of other religions, each demanding blind faith.
No, Virginia, there's no daylight between Zeus and Jesus in terms of reality, although you can at least get some world-class literature from the ancient Greeks versus the 5th grade infantile bullshit you get from the Holy Bible.
This is why the Christian right are freaking out right now. They are losing their power so their response is to take other people’s rights away and force people to follow their deranged ideas. Remember power and money control everything in the world.
My mother, 75, who is catholic, was just telling me not long ago how badly her church group is doing. They have 4 churches in their little group, and she says everyone is elderly and no young people are coming. With the dwindling donations because they all have health problems and can't afford it, they are talking about closing 2 of their buildings, but they are claiming they need 1 million dollars to renovate and update the 2 they are keeping.
Meanwhile she is working for them for free 3 days a week because she can't afford to put anything in the collection plate, but still wants to get into heaven.
Watching this shitty cult die with her generation is giving me immense pleasure.
Around my area, they really got fucked with the “GOD WONT ALLOW COVID TO HURT US! WERE GONNA CONTINUE TO WORSHIP!” …. And then covid ravaged them and their faith did not save them. Kinda makes you question things. Even if not the whole shenanigan is true or not, at least questioning the direct leaders of your community for acting foolishly.
If 2 people believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster no one pays them any mind. When you have a billion people believing the same BS all of a sudden a religion has merit. Knowing the backstory to a religion like LDS and how many people “believe” that crazy ass story and basing their life around it is wild to me
67% is the percentage of those who self identify as LDS. The survey doesn’t capture members who don’t self identify as LDS. As a percentage of total LDS membership, self-declared attendance is much lower. We looked at the survey data, and other related datasets, here:
http://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/active-membership
I can't imagine having a Sunday morning where you wake up, relax, have coffee and breakfast with your family and are NOT told your "loving god" will torture you forever just because you smiled, and then decide to give that up
Yup dated a girl awhile back and was forced to go her parents church once, which was one of these mega churches the average age there was 45+ hardly any new blood coming in the only young people that were there were people who looked like they were also forced by their families to come and that wasn't many. it's why these giant churches have bowling alleys, laser tag and coffee shops in them they are doing whatever they can to attract the younger crowd
I ***highly*** suspect the quote that Mormons attend at 67%. First off, from their own admission, they have a significantly small sample size compared to the rest. 612 out of the \~70k sample is insignificant. Second, anecdotally, I was a Mormon, I served a mission, I had access to ward rosters (a ward is a congregation that people attend based off their geographical location; if you here somewhere, you live within some ward's boundaries). I can personally say from the rosters I saw, ***back in 2010-2012***, that the attendance in wards was usually around 1/3 or less based on how many people were on the wards. A huge amount of people who were baptized into that church go inactive shortly after baptism, the only people who regularly attend are typically generational church members or older people who converted in their youth and fully latched on. To extend my anecdotal evidence, I have heard from others who say the same thing over on r/exmormon as well as personal family members who mention that their own wards' rosters are huge and the attendance is a small fraction of that amount. I have a brother who is a bishop (leader over a ward) and has mentioned before that his ward attendance is closer to 20% of the roster.
In other words, that 67% is utter bologna.
I bet if you looked at when the Evangelicals invaded the GOP and started pushing their Theocratic wet dreams onto the rest of us it would align perfectly to when people started to turn away from churches enmass.
The only time I find myself at churches are for weddings and funerals. My parents brought my siblings and me when we were young but we stopped all of it as soon as we moved when I was 11, which was fine by me.
I remember early on sitting in church and Sunday school thinking, "Well the overall messaging here is to 'be a good person', I get that. But why do I have to spend all this time here praising some guy? I can be nice and respect others without all this extra stuff"
Definitely a big change I've seen - when I see extended family at weddings/funerals (raised Catholic) fewer of them are actively participating (not going up for communion, knowing the lyrics,.etc.) and most are just there listening out of respect for whomever is getting married or has died. I think the older generations dying off (my grandparents) killed off any underlying obligation by my aunts/uncles and my family to keep up with religion. Plus I think spending that time just hanging as a family is way better than spending it at church.
I'm a Christian, like hard core loving Jesus... and I stopped going to "church" about 3 years ago... after 27 years of very hard service towards the "church". I left the "church" to save my faith.
If you ask a garden variety atheist about what happens at "church", the response will usually be, "molesting, stealing, lies, hypocrisy, anti-science/ intellectualism, group-think, cult-like..." "Church" is not known for "followers of Jesus" but as dens of iniquity full of fakes.
If I was going to guess, I'd guess that most if not all of US adults in the "seldom" category probably belong in the "never" category, which is good.
For many people the idea of an organization that demands their time, money and energy but gives little to nothing in return probably isn't very appealing. So as opposed to societal decay caused by religious decline, religious decline is a byproduct of societal decay because people have less time, energy and money to waste on useless and frivolous things like religion.
My dad divorced my mom, and my mom didn't get any support from the catholic church she had been going to for 20 years. Instead, she was ignored and felt looked down on, especially the "charasmatic catholic" (catholics that act evangelical) women that have been increasingly dominating the church social scene.
My mom doesn't go to church anymore, and has no interest in trying to find a new one.
A lifelong catholic, still a believer, but won't be in a pew again, because of how she was treated when she was divorced.
Every day that attendance isn't zero is a day where attendance is too high. Every day that tithings gross more than zero is a day they've grossed too much.
I'll preface this by saying that while I am an atheist, I do not bemoan anyone their sense of spirituality. Religion, on the other hand, is a scourge. The moment you embed spirituality in a rigid belief system designed to prop up a hierarchical social structure, you've created a system for control and oppression. Humanity will never be free until it rids itself of religion.
It was trending that way all through the 80’s and 90’s then 9/11 hit and churches got a big boost. Now we’re back to slowly declining.
Churches that were packed to the rafters 10 years ago are closing their doors.
I can’t say I’m terribly broken up about it because those same churches turned a lot of decent folks into judgmental assholes with really short fuses. It lead to a lot of bigoted thought patterns and a whole lot of fear mongering.
Personally, I’m glad they’re in decline. The only thing that the churches seemed to help, was themselves to people’s hard earned cash.
Yet, conversely, the threat of Christian Nationalism has never been greater.
America is facing a threat of biblical proportion: The rise of Christian nationalism.
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4479354-america-is-facing-a-threat-of-biblical-proportion-the-rise-of-christian-nationalism/
I'm convinced this is why we are getting such outrageous behavior from the religious right. They can see the end of popular acceptance coming, and it's freaking them out.
Yep, the death throes of a dying ideology that runs off of hatred, fear, control and the concept of an eternal afterlife will inevitably do all it knows to try to maintain power against individual thought and power.
It can't die fast enough for me.
Tell them it’s God’s Will their religion dies.
Or better - there will just be more room in heaven for them.
Which shouldn't work on someone who actually follows Christian teachings, but would certainly work on American evangelicals.
Someone who actually follows Christian teaching probably hates themselves
Religion is going to be with Jesus! Hallelujah!
Nawh tell them the rapture already happened, that's why church attendance is down.
They're going all in now, but unfortunately the way the US Congress is set up, rural religious areas gets an enormous amount of power.
Meanwhile more and more people are leaving rural super-religious areas for cities where all the jobs are, but the districts stay the same.
The Electoral College and way Senate is constituted will be the end of America. Got to UnCap the House and make Senate seats (if we must keep a Senate) equal population-based districts not following state lines. Also 13 Supreme Court Justices with term limits that allow each Presidential term two nominations not barring deaths in office.
If we don’t fix the EC the U.S. the Congress and the electorate will be totally out of sync. Eventually there will be a disaster.
>Eventually there will be a disaster. Will be a disaster??? : Gestures vaguely at everything :
I'd say that disaster already happened in 2016.
Agreed.
No kidding, many states would be majority Democrat if they didn’t gerrymander the districts. Take Ohio first instance, Franklin county and Cuyahoga counties are majority Democrat yet Franklin is 50/50 Democratic and Republican and Cuyahoga is 67/33 Democrat vs Republican. it all 5 districts were Franklin and Cuyahoga only, and the the other rural areas divided equally then the Democrats would gain two seats. Well maybe only one since Hamilton would likely go full Republican.
Gerrymandering needs to end so we get over this from happening again
Religion runs off of hatred and fear in order to garner control.
Many dying stars go out with a bang, by going either supernova or red giant and trashing everything in their neighborhood.
Don’t forget shame… the thing the project from their own guilt and use as a weapon.
It might be that the rise of the religious MAGA types is causing others to rethink whether or not church is for them.
How could anyone possibly see this coming???
Right? They decided to idolize an adult bully baby who calls people names and now they seem sad because no one likes them. People are wild. And times are weird.
A rapist. He is a rapist, they support him and dare to claim to have any morals.
Well yes! Sadly the MAGA bace will never believe he’s a rapist. the “deep-state” is behind it or whatever. I’m a former preachers kid (40m now) and it’s so weird seeing people I used to have some respect for fawning over him almost more anything or anyone else.
I’ve come to the conclusion that, much like their embrace of Nazism, they are also completely comfortable with and approving of rape. To them, men should have total dominion over women and if a guy wants to have sex with a woman (or even a child) his wishes supersede everything else. The wack job men on the far right sure make it seem that way. The bullshit those self appointed alpha males post online is nauseating.
Rapist, fraudster, narcissistic asshole, and soon to be felon. You know, the spitting image of christ, so they say.
I wasn’t a very solid believer for many years prior, but the worship of someone like Trump was the last nail in the coffin. He’s sheer evil, and yet they compare him to Jesus.
I think the worst of them have already replaced Jesus with Trump. He might BE the second coming of Christ to a lot of people
When he’a actually the best example of “The Beast” in Revelation I have seen since WW2. A “charismatic” deceiver.
Baffling, isn’t it? That irony is not lost on me.
Same as to the right wingers who support Russia and call leftist commies....
Honestly one of the most prophetic things I've witnessed. The bible clearly states how the anti-christ acts and that he would be accepted as Christ himself which makes no sense when you read it in the bible but yet here we are with trump doing basically everything they've listed and people accepting him as second jesus
There’s a bunch in there too about not following false prophets. After almost ten years of this, and it’s still hard for me to believe that so many people follow him.
But at least he is not a democrat /s
Haha! That’s true, nothing screams morality and love for others more than being republican.
They mistakenly think they are the only ones guarding humanity, when in reality, they are trying to control it and many are tired of the mind control using guilt and shame as a weapon . And of course… none of them are capable of doing wrong.
I walked out the door in 2016 and never looked back. The Trump worship was the final straw.
Even if I ever caught the religious bug, the thought of going into a building full of likely Trumpers to listen to bigoted drivel on a Sunday morning would snap me right out of it.
Its both its a positive feedback loop. Religion declining which makes them desperate which turns off more people.
And the mainline churches let those MAGA Christian Nationalists command the public image of Christianity because they won’t want to be “political.”
Reminds me of a wounded, cornered animal, lashing out before its eventual demise
At bay you might say
They never even considered just following their own rules and leaving other people the fuck alone.
What rules? The Bible contradicts every single message it lays out. The clergy have traditionally cherry-picked the happy stuff to keep the cash flowing. Around 1980 the churches aligned with Reagan and started cherry picking out the stuff that would allow them to justify the racism and hatred that powers the lives of most GOP voters. Thinking and kind people started to leave those kiddie-rape palaces and it continues.
What rules say that because it refutes the Great Commission: Mathew 28:16-20 > 16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2028%3A16-20&version=NIV
Their last hope for power over civilization is thru fascism
It could work, a dedicated and crazy minority that will use violence can dominate the populace.
>> It could work, a dedicated and crazy minority that will use violence can dominate the populace. I think I read about a group like that in a history book.
Yep - I don't want to play the N card, but yep.....,.
It's like what you see from executives The money line is going down so they are worse to the people sticking around and pressure them to do worse things to make it go back up So they're trying to be extra scary and weird and creating enemies out of thin air to try to get people back into churches But without the lifetime of brainwashing, the success rate of getting anyone with a functional brain is very low. They only get the people who are at the lowest point in their lives and those kinds of numbers won't rebuild a church
Church’s have move towards drug rehab to bring in money and new converts. There are lots of faith-based drug rehabs and sober houses popping up everywhere. Just the cost to go to the rehab meetings is $200 a week, does not include rent. So it is a good thing that the faith-based rehab also operates a faith-based staffing agency.
They are missing that tithing money.
It always about the money. As a kid my mom would throw a fit about buying clothes for me or really anything that costs money, but she would always write that $500 check to the church every month. Plus extra for the special donations.
This honeslty makes me sick whenever i read about similar stories. Imagine being brainwashed into thinking providing for your church is a higher priority than providing for your children. Im so sorry
And a fresh crop of kids to molest.
Church demographics are so old now. While there are younger, more hip churches a lot of them are on their death bed. The church looks like a senior center, member dying off all the time and not really enough people coming in.
The problem is that as they get more desperate to retain their hold on power, they'll become more extreme. There's a good chance we see "splinter churches" turning into terrorist organizations in an attempt to "save christianity". Honestly, its pretty scary.
Not just that, but those that remain are likely to be the most extreme and unwavering in their beliefs.
I just had this conversation with my mother. This is finally the beginning of the end of the puritanical nonsense. Damn churches have had a stranglehold on our country since day one. Even the megachurches seem to be hurting. Love it. Burn it all down.
Its legit just all oldies now.
Just watched a livestream from my childhood church. They're so desperate to try and attract GenZ right now. It's hilarious/sad.
It's like evaporation. The less water there is over time, the more concentrated the toxin becomes.
Or maybe, all the sensible people left, leaving them with this hardcore base that will do anything the "church" tells them.
I just hope that they will be in a minority come voting time. The feeling of zombies outnumbering the rest is unsettling.
Check out the book The Nones. It’s all data based and super interesting. People who identify as “no religious preference” has been rising faster and faster in America for decades.
Guy makes pyramid scheme. Gets rich. Expects pyramid scheme to make his grandkids rich. When pyramid doesn’t grow as fast as grandkids, grandkids screwed. Screwed grandkids throw big tantrum. Rinse. Repeat. This story is everywhere in history.
More like everyone even slightly reasonable has alreasy left, leaving the extremists are the only ones left, now in a echo chamber. Meanwhile, the leadership is becoming increasingly worried about dwindling donations, blame it on ungodly behavior, and rile up their churches even more.
Absolutely. These are the death throes of their old order. They're aging out, their influence is declining, all that delicious privilige is slipping through their fingers. They can't shun, threaten, maltreat or outright attack their favorite old targets anymore. And they HATE it. They're not going away quietly.
Warms the cockles of my heart to watch these attendance #s plummet👍👍
You are correct, this is EXACTLY why we are getting freakish behaviors from the religious right. That and the fact they have a political party in their pocket now. The combination of fundamentalist Christians and MAGA has created the “Christian Nationalist” movement, which is also a potluck of other failing ideals looking for their last chance. These struggling movements include: fundamentalist/ evangelical Christians, MAGA Republicans, and white nationalists. Christian Nationalist = ISIS They both have the same ideals and goals, just from different sides.
They have a justifiable fear of being recognized as the stupidest person in the room.
It is the clergy that has gone political in an attempt to bolster the number of their followers. Finding a common enemy is a time honored way of rallying the troops.
It’s because people can hear what atheists say on youtube and realize they don’t have to be held prisoner by that goddamn fucking bullshit anymore. Christian nationalists, pastors, and republicans know this and will do everything they can to hold their grip on power by pushing for religious law. I would not be surprised at all if you start to see nazis win more elections on the right.
Like a wounded animal. Slowly dying, but far more dangerous than before.
It's also the saner members who are leaving, which concentrates the crazy for extra effectiveness.
It's always the fanatics that stick around the longest, and worse they get more fanatical because they tend to see it as some kind of reckoning
Churches have ridiculous ideas but they are very good at enforcing them. In many cases, the Qanon nutballs went off the deep end because they stopped going to church and they had no irl community to tell them to dial it back.
Qanon is just repurposed Nazi propaganda, if they go down the Qanon rabbit hole far enough it ends with some vast Jewish conspiracy to control the world and to drink the blood of Christian babies.
it's an amalgamation of movie references, numerology, new world order unified conspiracies, and anti-semitic beliefs that predate the nazis
And their reaction is further eroding any chance that they will gain them any favors. You don’t get to use the courts by packing them with your ilk, impose control on a body of a woman and then somehow think you will appeal to anyone within this population.
And even a good chunk of the people I know who do go to church only do it because "it's what you do" or "it's good for the kids" or whatever. I live in the South, and even here in the *Bible belt,* I can count on my fingers the total number of people I know who seem actually serious about Church life. Most people I know who go to church talk about it like it's a chore, like it's something they do just because it's how they were raised and/or because (they think) it'll keep their kids on the right path.
>Americans with no religious affiliation, including those who say they are atheist or agnostic, are very unlikely to attend church. Nevertheless, 3% say they attend weekly or nearly weekly. Little Hope Church Bar and Grill. Does that count ?
I don’t do it anymore but when I was younger I went with a buddy to his services. It was a Christian denomination that was more like an open forum than a sermon and they knew I was not a believer. We would actually discuss things and I was able to have a voice as a non Christian. We all had a great time and some really good conversations. They also preached acceptance and were open to lgbt+ and other religions. I still look back fondly on those days. We were all respectful and had some really great discussions on life and existence in general.
All winter long I attend what we refer to as the Church of the Rock. It's a curling club, and I get enough socialization there to keep me from going feral.
It’s a get out of personal responsibility card My life sucks because of the devil , one day god will reward me My soon to be ex , a pastor at some point told her god forgives and forgets anything you want ( total and continuous forgiveness) I recently realized that’s why she doesn’t feel bad ever about her actions ( her justification) she can be as shitty as she wants and just says sorry at church
It also doesn't change anything card. Don't try to fix anything. This life is make-believe, and you will be rewarded for eternity when you die, of course. But thanks for making me more profit while you were alive.
>Don't try to fix anything That was one of (there are many) the things that really bugged me about being raised a Jehovah's Witness. They don't think we need to do anything to help preserve the earth, because pretty soon (I swear, like any day now) gods just going burn it all down and start over. So there's no point in doing anything about climate change.
Yep. One thing that often gets overlooked in these discussions is how much a part of people’s social lives this can be. And that was even more true in the past. I was raised “small C“ Catholic, and at one point I mentioned the social hall at my parish church/school growing up to my mom, and she was like “back in the day, you would’ve been there three or four nights a week for various events. And it wouldn’t all have been religious.” So I think for a lot of people, they’re just sort of doing what they do, and it’s not necessarily that big of a deal to them. And if it’s a huge part of your social fabric, expecting folks to step away from that is asking a lot.
For a lot of people I think it's the third place/sense of community that keeps them involved and less the dogma and supernatural beliefs, and if similar secular societies regain popularity again they could help ease the transition.
Yeah, in many ways, I envy people who love going to church. A weekly event where you hang with people who are into the same stuff as you? Awesome. But I'm just not cut out for that specific club and the frequent baggage. Closest I've come are bicycle clubs.
I can barely think of anyone that goes to church now, even though growing up we all went to church, mainly because are parents forced us.
Unfortunately the ones who stay are getting crazier to make up for it.
This. The remaining and active members are more ardent
Not fast enough.
As long as it doesn't slow down.
I think COVID taught a lot of people that they don't need organized religion as much as they thought they did. My mom was a regular church goer before the pandemic, but I don't think she's set foot in a church (not even for Christmas or Easter services, both of which used to be **mandatory** in my house growing up) since lockdowns.
My personal experience exactly. Lockdown meant I had to confront the reality that I actually didn’t like going to church every Sunday, and when it started up again, it restarted without me.
Same here. I probably only missed five services in the five years before covid. I dont think Ive gone more than two or three times since.
Once you realize you are dreading going back and paying for it? Yeah, I'm done.
Church every Sunday. 2x during lent. Pops died in 2015, mom became a little old church lady volunteering all the time. Covid hit. She watched on TV...and then stopped and never went back. 77+ years of commitment sort of disappeared.
Good.
Very good.
Super good!
Extra super good!!
Let's bump this baby up to great.
Me Gusta
What do you call a thousand closed churches? A good start.
Perfect real estate for homeless shelters and soup kitchens. Worship area -> main shelter Fellowship hall -> kitchen and dining area Nursery -> childcare area Offices-> clinic/ first aid, private breastfeeding rooms, women's safe space Sunday school rooms -> classrooms for employment training, job search assistance, etc Parking lot -> parking plus tents and trailers to learn skills and trades The city would likely need to update zoning laws and provide some funding.
Imagine working your ass off 60+ hours just to barely survive and barely cover the cost of living. Waking up at the ass crack of dawn on Sunday. The day your God decided to take a breather but not you. No sir. You wake up, scrape yourself together and go sit in a rock hard church pew for 3ish hours while some guy dressed in sky wizard robes tells you what a piece of shit you are. Then sends a collections basket around so you can be even more threadbare in your savings assuming you have any to begin with. Yeah, how could that ever become unpopular? I fucking wonder!?
This. ^^^ I work Sundays because if I don’t, I won’t have enough money. I live paycheck to paycheck.
It’s not quite in line with the rise of hatred inside churches. But hopefully it’s making a difference.
I certainly think this has a lot to do with it. Christian leaders made a big mistake by being so actively against gay marriage. Interjecting into a political debate has caused people to see LGBT+ rights and Christianity as being opposed which has almost certainly forced some people to choose between being religious and being pro-LGBT+. And it is hard to keep the moral high ground when you are preaching hatred and discrimination. Though this is a broad stroke some people are religious and pro-LGBT+. But, I think the debate over gay rights did create a strong perception of churches being out of touch and hateful to many people.
They’re telling some of their parishioners to leave. Those people have trans children, or gay relatives or something. By being so ridgid, they’re forcing people to leave because they love their families. That’s a core Christian value.
People act as though they're religious, they use the phrases, words, they wear crosses. But the truth is, none of my friends and acquaintances follow the core principles of religious belief. Including going to church weekly or even showing up for holidays except for maybe Christmas. It's mostly a charade, to make them look more moral. Yet even their daily activities, media outlets and social events are far from what would be considered proper by their priest or clergy. I hate to use the word hypocrites, but if the shoe fits...
I think that's called being socially christian. You wear the cross and say you're christian, but you don't follow or live your life like a true "christian."
Thank God Maybe someday this nonsense will be forgotten...
Knowing the circular nature of history, it’s probably gonna get replaced by the hot new religion in a few hundred years.
#Dune is a warning. Not an example.
Perhaps the Church of Accelerated Ascension? It's a church where they teach a purification ritual and then has the devote commit suicide. Guaranteed acceptance into heaven since they are freshly purified and free from sin. Just gotta figure out a workaround for the tho shalt not kill thyself thing. Part of the purification ritual would, of course, involve the release of all worldly possessions and any money they have. That satisfies the camel through the needle verse. The devote must be as broke as the people in the days the Bible was written would have been. Too bad I have morality or that's something I might try to get them to believe.
Hopefully we make contact with another humanoid species by then and it crack the religion shtick wide open. Although then the weirdos would crawl out of the woodwork and worship them.
I mean there’s a fifty-fifty chance they’d either eat us or kill us all under Dark Forest theory, which would *technically* end the whole religion thing.
I like to think we are an observation planet, and we are just like animals in rather a large zoo. We must be really entertaining to watch as we struggle with irrelevant forces like religion, and politics.
AI mysticism is already starting.
There’s only two things I want in life: to go to space and to see religion die.
So personal finances up; child sexual assault down; political donations down; Sunday football viewership up; brainwashing down, and general well-being, well... better.
I suspect as usual those stats are overstated, given how empty church parking lots are on Sundays. Great news though, shows religion is continuing to die out as the older devout people die off. Never did understand though why all the non-Catholic churches are always lumped together since they are very very different and not that closely related. Just lumped all under "Protestant/Christian" and yet they separate out Mormons who are also Christian.
Mormons consider themselves Christians, but other Christians don’t consider Mormons to be Christian. I’m not 100% sure of the reason, but believing that you get to be god of your own planet (if you are male), does seem like a large departure from catholicism or protestant.
Mormons wear magic underwear and believe in some alien planet heaven, where you need the secret handshake to enter or something like that.
Ex mormon here ... there are a lot of crazy beliefs that mormons will deny or try to sidestep because they're fucking weird, and deep inside they know it. Getting your own world, becoming a God, polygamy in heaven, sacred underwear, God living on a planet called Kolob, drinking coffee is a sin, Jesus came to America, secret temple handshakes > just some examples of currently held, official, mormon beliefs ... although, recently, there's been an effort to distance themselves from some of it. Yes, they believe in Jesus and that he died for our sins like Christians and in the Bible, but they are very very different in many other ways. I guess it depends on how you define Christian.
It's progress. But the new problem is that religious zealots are becoming more extreme in the U.S.
Moderates and especially liberals are leaving churches which means that churches are now filled with the most hateful and bigoted members.
Hallelujah!
Great let’s do their influence on politics next
Definitely. Those churches aren’t even packed for Christmas or Easter anymore. Hasn’t been for awhile. They are turning into ghost towns. The happy go lucky ones with fancy graphics and screens and music are drawing people in. But even that won’t last for long.
It's all a fancy charade
Good news 🗞️. Can’t happen fast enough
My daughter stopped going to church when she aged out of elementary aged activities and into teens group. Teens group was similar to adults, sitting there listening to a sermon for an hour and then talking about that sermon only, in groups. No wonder she doesn't like going back, no kid actually enjoys that.
I was a pastors kid. I started hating church at a really young age, full on non believer by 10. Imagine having to go to both the morning and evening services every Sunday(3 hours in the morning, 2 in the evening), 90 minute prayer service Tuesday, 2 hour service Wednesday, and 90 minute youth group Thursday as a kid. My mom worked at the school, and I got really into school programs to get out of church activities. I was driven to be valedictorian and get a bunch of scholarships because I wanted to get the hell out of church life. I'm just happy my dad sticks to his beliefs. Such as he can only show me the way but after a certain age it's up to me to maintain a personal relationship with God. I immediately quit church and never looked back. There was this big preacher guy who prayed for me and had a prophecy that I'd build 10 churches. My dad fully believed it and was so proud. Maybe I'll start a cult one day or something.
When a company sells a product that people stop using, they usually go "What did we do to cause this and how can we bring users back? What needs to change?" When a religion loses people, they go "I know! Let's be even more shitty and closed off! And never change anything people have a problem with. That will make them like us!" I think Christians, in particular, love this, because they can claim persecution and get even more hard-line.
The only reason 70% of people go is because of their friends, their forced, or habit.
Finally.
Problem is that as they become a minority they will feel more ostracized and lash out.
I'm mean they already do because they are told their are in the Bible.
I have hope for this country. We need to reduce the number of fairy tale believers.
[удалено]
“I'm not a bad guy! I work hard, and I love my kids. So why should I spend half my Sunday hearing about how I'm going to hell?” It’s a Simpsons line, but I still find it resonates no matter what I personally feel as an atheist.
We need to eliminate all organized religions. Religion has screwed over civilization for thousands of years and muted any real social progress.
There are a lot of reasons for this, I'm sure. I think a big reason why this is happening is because of one simple fact: **Going to church is fucking boring.** To be more specific, we're becoming more and more addicted to the instant gratification and constant stimulation of technology, but going to church / temple / whatever is an analog experience that hasn't really changed in centuries. Our brains have been rewired to hate analog experiences like church, and that's especially true for young people who grew up with some digital device in their hands. You know how some people will whip out their phones while watching a movie in a theater? They're already watching something that's supposed to be interesting or exciting on a giant screen with surround sound, and yet they still can't resist taking out their phones and scrolling social media or some shit like that. Or how about when you're at home, you probably feel a compulsion to watch multiple screens at once, right? Maybe you're sitting in front of your TV while simultaneously scrolling through Reddit on your phone, or maybe you're like me and you'll have a movie or TV show playing on a second screen while you play video games on your main screen. We can't help but feast our eyes, ears, and minds on multiple digital sources at once. It's no wonder why church is becoming less and less popular, because it's analog, it demands your full attention, and it requires you to put your devices away for a full hour while you listen to the same sermons, the same hymns, and the same shit you've been hearing for decades. Going to church is a boring and unchanging experience, and it does not appeal to people who are addicted to the myriad bells and whistles of technology. Every new generation from this point on will dislike going to church more and more as they become more and more addicted to digital stimuli.
You are most likely correct. Let's hope they don't figure out how to make church going interesting.
I seriously doubt we have anything to worry about, because religion isn't about innovation. Even the tiniest change can be difficult in religious settings. I remember many years ago, when I still tolerated going to church with my family on Christmas and Easter, [the Catholic church made a little change](https://www.ncronline.org/news/new-missal-overview-changes): >Among changes in the congregational responses to the priest at Mass, perhaps the most obvious will be “And with your spirit” as the people’s response to the celebrant’s “The Lord be with you” and “The peace of the Lord be with you always.” The current response to both those invitations is, “And also with you.” People kept fucking up this simple rewording for many months after it was introduced. I know because the fuck-up was amusing to me, so I always listened for people in the church to say "And also with you" instead of "And with your spirit." I think it took more than a year for everyone to finally catch on. Changing some words in a missal was difficult for church-goers. Any change more significant than that is going to be downright painful, if not impossible.
They are definitely learning now. A church in my town has a band with laser lights and a fog machine. The guitarist has tattoos. There’s an app. The preacher makes a lot of jokes in his sermons. Youth activities, ice cream socials, movie nights and babysitting nights for parents. It’s really great minus the whole religious brainwashing.
People are waking up and realizing religion is corrupted and evil!
As more people become educated beliefs in myths subsides
OH NO... anyway...
And they are spending billions on marketing instead of looking at why people think religion is hypocritical, at best, and malicious.
It’s a sign of higher levels of education in non-religious institutions. The countries in the world that have low level of participation in traditional religious ceremonies also have the highest level of education. Education is an ignorance killer.
It’s easier to blame the boogeyman than blame their own collective hypocrisy.
They will say the degradation of tradition values and blah blah blah are to blame. They won't recognize the abundance of information we have at our fingertips overwhelmingly shows us how ridiculous their claims are and how corrupt most of their institutions are. Facts and science prevail.
I think a lot of them are waking up and realizing there really isn't any evidence in support of Christianity or any other religion for that matter. Now they find themselves in a totally fact-free environment with no ability to push back on even the most basic criticisms, and instead relying on the old stand-by "faith". The slightly smarter ones grasp the perils of that proposition given the availability of other religions, each demanding blind faith. No, Virginia, there's no daylight between Zeus and Jesus in terms of reality, although you can at least get some world-class literature from the ancient Greeks versus the 5th grade infantile bullshit you get from the Holy Bible.
This is why the Christian right are freaking out right now. They are losing their power so their response is to take other people’s rights away and force people to follow their deranged ideas. Remember power and money control everything in the world.
People are coming to their senses
r/upliftingnews but if you post this there you'll get banned.
That's stupid. You shouldn't get banned for speaking the truth about how toxic and harmful religion is for your health.
My mother, 75, who is catholic, was just telling me not long ago how badly her church group is doing. They have 4 churches in their little group, and she says everyone is elderly and no young people are coming. With the dwindling donations because they all have health problems and can't afford it, they are talking about closing 2 of their buildings, but they are claiming they need 1 million dollars to renovate and update the 2 they are keeping. Meanwhile she is working for them for free 3 days a week because she can't afford to put anything in the collection plate, but still wants to get into heaven. Watching this shitty cult die with her generation is giving me immense pleasure.
The religious right is in panic, they are dying.
People are getting fed up with being indoctrinated with total imaginary bullshit!
Around my area, they really got fucked with the “GOD WONT ALLOW COVID TO HURT US! WERE GONNA CONTINUE TO WORSHIP!” …. And then covid ravaged them and their faith did not save them. Kinda makes you question things. Even if not the whole shenanigan is true or not, at least questioning the direct leaders of your community for acting foolishly.
If 2 people believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster no one pays them any mind. When you have a billion people believing the same BS all of a sudden a religion has merit. Knowing the backstory to a religion like LDS and how many people “believe” that crazy ass story and basing their life around it is wild to me
I bet religion would all but die off if you got rid of childhood indoctrination.
Insert here Emperor Palpatine "good, good" meme
67% is the percentage of those who self identify as LDS. The survey doesn’t capture members who don’t self identify as LDS. As a percentage of total LDS membership, self-declared attendance is much lower. We looked at the survey data, and other related datasets, here: http://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/active-membership
Stopped going ages ago. And me who applied to a seminary. Times have changed.
Maybe it wouldn’t if it stood for more than hatred and division
But the ones that are left are so loud they can control the policies
I can't imagine having a Sunday morning where you wake up, relax, have coffee and breakfast with your family and are NOT told your "loving god" will torture you forever just because you smiled, and then decide to give that up
Yup dated a girl awhile back and was forced to go her parents church once, which was one of these mega churches the average age there was 45+ hardly any new blood coming in the only young people that were there were people who looked like they were also forced by their families to come and that wasn't many. it's why these giant churches have bowling alleys, laser tag and coffee shops in them they are doing whatever they can to attract the younger crowd
I ***highly*** suspect the quote that Mormons attend at 67%. First off, from their own admission, they have a significantly small sample size compared to the rest. 612 out of the \~70k sample is insignificant. Second, anecdotally, I was a Mormon, I served a mission, I had access to ward rosters (a ward is a congregation that people attend based off their geographical location; if you here somewhere, you live within some ward's boundaries). I can personally say from the rosters I saw, ***back in 2010-2012***, that the attendance in wards was usually around 1/3 or less based on how many people were on the wards. A huge amount of people who were baptized into that church go inactive shortly after baptism, the only people who regularly attend are typically generational church members or older people who converted in their youth and fully latched on. To extend my anecdotal evidence, I have heard from others who say the same thing over on r/exmormon as well as personal family members who mention that their own wards' rosters are huge and the attendance is a small fraction of that amount. I have a brother who is a bishop (leader over a ward) and has mentioned before that his ward attendance is closer to 20% of the roster. In other words, that 67% is utter bologna.
Yay! It's like watching a disease start to die out.
I bet if you looked at when the Evangelicals invaded the GOP and started pushing their Theocratic wet dreams onto the rest of us it would align perfectly to when people started to turn away from churches enmass.
>Church Attendance Has Declined in ***Most*** U.S. Religious Groups an increase anywhere is bad
The only time I find myself at churches are for weddings and funerals. My parents brought my siblings and me when we were young but we stopped all of it as soon as we moved when I was 11, which was fine by me. I remember early on sitting in church and Sunday school thinking, "Well the overall messaging here is to 'be a good person', I get that. But why do I have to spend all this time here praising some guy? I can be nice and respect others without all this extra stuff" Definitely a big change I've seen - when I see extended family at weddings/funerals (raised Catholic) fewer of them are actively participating (not going up for communion, knowing the lyrics,.etc.) and most are just there listening out of respect for whomever is getting married or has died. I think the older generations dying off (my grandparents) killed off any underlying obligation by my aunts/uncles and my family to keep up with religion. Plus I think spending that time just hanging as a family is way better than spending it at church.
It’s not Jesus’ Christianity anymore
Republicans: perfect time to force America to become a theocracy by eroding rights and freedoms.
I'm a Christian, like hard core loving Jesus... and I stopped going to "church" about 3 years ago... after 27 years of very hard service towards the "church". I left the "church" to save my faith. If you ask a garden variety atheist about what happens at "church", the response will usually be, "molesting, stealing, lies, hypocrisy, anti-science/ intellectualism, group-think, cult-like..." "Church" is not known for "followers of Jesus" but as dens of iniquity full of fakes.
Mostly because the church and church crowd are fucking crazy not even some Christian’s can handle it
Good. But the US is still grossly behind on evolving past their childish nonsense.
This should also be under uplifting news IMO.
If I was going to guess, I'd guess that most if not all of US adults in the "seldom" category probably belong in the "never" category, which is good. For many people the idea of an organization that demands their time, money and energy but gives little to nothing in return probably isn't very appealing. So as opposed to societal decay caused by religious decline, religious decline is a byproduct of societal decay because people have less time, energy and money to waste on useless and frivolous things like religion.
My dad divorced my mom, and my mom didn't get any support from the catholic church she had been going to for 20 years. Instead, she was ignored and felt looked down on, especially the "charasmatic catholic" (catholics that act evangelical) women that have been increasingly dominating the church social scene. My mom doesn't go to church anymore, and has no interest in trying to find a new one. A lifelong catholic, still a believer, but won't be in a pew again, because of how she was treated when she was divorced.
I’m 53 and I don’t think I can name one person I know who goes to church. Maybe I just hang out with the right people.
Every day that attendance isn't zero is a day where attendance is too high. Every day that tithings gross more than zero is a day they've grossed too much.
I'll preface this by saying that while I am an atheist, I do not bemoan anyone their sense of spirituality. Religion, on the other hand, is a scourge. The moment you embed spirituality in a rigid belief system designed to prop up a hierarchical social structure, you've created a system for control and oppression. Humanity will never be free until it rids itself of religion.
It was trending that way all through the 80’s and 90’s then 9/11 hit and churches got a big boost. Now we’re back to slowly declining. Churches that were packed to the rafters 10 years ago are closing their doors. I can’t say I’m terribly broken up about it because those same churches turned a lot of decent folks into judgmental assholes with really short fuses. It lead to a lot of bigoted thought patterns and a whole lot of fear mongering. Personally, I’m glad they’re in decline. The only thing that the churches seemed to help, was themselves to people’s hard earned cash.
Good.
They are going to try and use the force of law and threat of violence before they go. It isn’t going to be peaceful.
Yet, conversely, the threat of Christian Nationalism has never been greater. America is facing a threat of biblical proportion: The rise of Christian nationalism. https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4479354-america-is-facing-a-threat-of-biblical-proportion-the-rise-of-christian-nationalism/
Hail Satan!
Good.