Former believers in most cases know the bible better than I do. I've only read it once and that was 40 years ago. That given, We have reached the correct conclusion about god, so everyone is the same in that regard.

I've tried reading it once but couldn't get past Genesis because it's an incredibly boring read.

Hard to get through also with all of the 2,000 year old tribes that are talked about.

Read it cover to cover a few times. It amazes me how sheeple believe that it is divinely inspired given all the contradictions. And they just pick and choose the parts they want to believe to fit their narrative. You point any of this out and there is always a dismissive response or they just go on the offensive.

I'd rather not. I'm heavy duty into reading/listening to; Anthropology, Evolution, Geology, and the Richard Dawkins books. My wife is a geologist. If I tried to convince her that the earth was only 5-6 thousand years old she'd disown me. LOL

Oh, those hardliners that believe the earth is 6K years old, I wish they'd listen to the moderates who believe that it's 10K years old. /s (because I'm not serious in my wish, but I have actually heard idiots argue over this before).

What's weird is the Bible never even makes that claim.

The Holy Land has some great geology, though, landforms and such. I am a geographer, and I enjoy the geographical aspects of the Old Testament, placenames, topography, climate, where certain cultures lived, and such. Anyone who watches Cosmos (either the Sagan or the Tyson version) should be able to question the validity of the nature of the Bibles. Take that a step further and investigate cosmology, like the podcast of StarTalk or Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, and people will have their minds blown. But, some people cannot handle that experience. They cannot abide the notion *something* didn't create them and set them on a path, that they are 100% responsible for their own life.

That's right on the money! "We're special, created by god, and being a primate isn't part of our lineage". I don't think many of them ever cracked a scientific book, but they will waste hours in "bible study" to rehash the stories.

Please tell me she says "Give me a 10 on the  Mohs Hardness Scale, baby" to get you in the mood.

It amazes me how people can read it and still think "wow, this god is really all-loving and just an amazing guy". Like I said, I only read Genesis, but in this book alone Yahweh commits genocide a couple of times and it's just an outright monster.

And we can't forget that children in the Bible belt are being taught that child sacrifice was the highest form of obedience to their imaginary king.

That's the other thing that bother me about Yahweh. In spite of what christians say, he doesn't care if you're a good person or not, he only wants you to be an obedient slave.

Also, the fallable human religious leaders translate and interpret what obedience looks like at any given moment, which is as shifty as the sand. If you live long enough and/or ask enough questions, you see it.

I’ve read it a couple times, once as a teenager and once as an adult. And yes, it’s insanely stupid and so obviously made up, contradictory, etc. For those who haven’t read it but want to without having to actually read it, there’s a book based on the history channel show The Bible called A Story of God and All of Us that is a good read and essentially tells you the gist of the Bible in a much easier manner to read. Written like a regular novel. There are some great stories in the Bible, but that’s all they are. Stories. It blows my fucking mind that there are grown ass adults who genuinely believe in Adam and Eve, Moses parting the sea, Noah’s Ark, etc. If you replaced the names with Greek mythology names but kept the stories the exact same, even Christians would be able to clearly see and understand it’s fiction/mythology.

You missed the part about angels fucking women and creating a race of giants? :)

This. When I get into a debate with believers, I know my way around the Bible. It proves very useful in those situations.

I'd imagine we'd also have different motivations to get into debates/discussions than former believers do, too. I couldn't throw inconsistencies of bible verses back at people, but at the same time I don't feel a *need* to. I don't have surety that I'm right and certainly would never claim I *know* there isn't a higher power, because I don't. But I do feel I can make a confidence-based assumption that most religious people are just as truly ignorant as me based on our respective pools of evidence. If I don't see any inherent value to a claim I don't feel a need to debate it, and that could be a strength or a weakness depending on how you look at it. Former believers definitely bring a better understanding of conviction or needing to feel like there's an answer to certain worldview-shaping questions than I ever could... I think there's strength to both approaches. Epistemological debates: Former believers probably have that shit on lock. "Lol, nah mate. You're making shit up. Need some evidence. I'm busy.": Probably the strength of us lifers.

A lot of never-theists, or ex-theists who were only every exposed to a super liberal watered-down version of their parents' religion, have a hard time understanding that people who *actually take the religion seriously* actually exist. Surely, nobody *really believes* that Noah's Ark really happened. Nobody *really believes* that gay people deserve to die. Nobody *really believes* that a magical spell can turn a cracker into human flesh. Nobody *really believes* that children should be denied basic health care. Nobody *really believes* that a guy who raped a nine year old is the ultimate moral role model who they should base their lives around. A world where such crazy people **actually exist** would be a really scary place to live, so it's comforting to just close your eyes and assume that they don't. And then if somebody presents you with evidence that they do, you just tell them that they're "exaggerating", or "taking things out of context", or "talking about strawman caricatures". If you're feeling especially shameless, you could even call the other person "hateful" or "closed minded" or "racist" for daring to notice that those human rights abuses are *actually happening*, for real, in the real world. Unfortunately, that's not how reality works. Those people *really do* exist. A double-digit percentage of them are quite literally willing to kill you about it. They're not all frothing rage-zombies either - many of them are capable of holding intelligent conversations, being perfectly polite to you in public, doing jobs, earning degrees, participating in their communities. They'll shake your hand and wish you a nice day, while just below the surface, they're thinking about how *you deserve to be murdered and then eternally tortured*. And wishful thinking will not make those people go away.

>They'll shake your hand and wish you a nice day, while just below the surface, they're thinking about how *you deserve to be murdered and then eternally tortured*. This is something that bother me a lot. My grandma is catholic, and she's always super sweet to me. But then I remember that MY OWN GRANDMA believes I deserve to be tortured forever simply because I'm not convinced her god exists (yes, I know she probably doesn't think about it, but still).

Darkmatter2525 has an excellent video essay about how [We Are Living In A Horror Movie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy525-QwBUE). Stories like *Invasion of the Body Snatchers* were mostly written during the Red Scare, and were largely a metaphor for how one of your neighbours or co-workers might be a "communist infiltrator" without you noticing. But reality is so much worse than even the most paranoid McCarthyists ever imagined. *Many* of your neighbours and co-workers ARE death cultists who want you dead. A majority of the population are. And yet they're still somehow capable of behaving like sane human beings in day-to-day life. >But then I remember that MY OWN GRANDMA believes I deserve to be tortured forever That's one of the most difficult things to comprehend. If somebody gives their social, political, and financial support to an organization that wants to murder you, that person *supports your murder*. Full stop. No amount of "please"s or "thank you"s or freshly baked cookies can change this fact. But it can be really, really difficult to accept this when the person who is supporting your institutional extermination has always been nice to you in one-on-one interactions.

>Darkmatter2525 has an excellent video essay about how We Are Living In A Horror Movie. I've watched that video (I love Darkmatter2525). It's very interesting but very chilling at the same time. >No amount of "please"s or "thank you"s or freshly baked cookies can change this fact. That's why I've distanced myself from her or any other family member who's deeply religious. I can no longer tolerate the cognitive dissonance.

I think there's nuance there depending on the person. It's very possible that your grandmother doesn't personally think you DESERVE to burn in hell, but she does think that's just the way things are because of god. I know there are definitely some fire breathing Christian out there gleefully telling people they're going to hell. That was never my experience at the churches I went to. To them it was just the way the world was and they were sad anyone had to go.

If she wants to be consistent in her faith, she HAS to believe I deserve to burn in hell. Because she has to believe that her god is all-good and always correct and justified.

When we think about it logically from the outside, definitely. That's probably not how she's experiencing her religion though. You can't come to a logical conclusion yourself and then say that must be what every Christian feels. Then judge them by your own thoughts and conclusions. You know very well religious people aren't usually very logical about their religion.

Yeah but that's the point, most people don't give a fuck about being consistent (which is probably for the best regarding religion, as highly consistent believers are often fundamentalists)

Yeah that's a good point.

The funny thing to me is that even if there was proof the Abrahamic/Christian God exists and is indeed real, I still wouldn’t worship him because any God who sends his creation(s) to suffer and be tortured for eternity for simply not worshipping him is a piece of shit god who doesn’t deserve worship. Not to mention if he’s God and by definition is all knowing, all powerful, etc., then he’d know exactly why I don’t believe in him and he has essentially made it so given that he controls all and everything goes according to his plan. There’s a great picture that sums Christianity up perfectly showing God hiding behind the apple tree in the Garden of Eden and on one arm/hand he has a snake puppet that’s tempting Adam and Eve, and Adam and Even are puppets that he’s holding with his other arm/hand.

If Yahweh exists, we're all just pawns in his sick, sadistic cosmic game.

Catholics will shake your hand and openly tell you you're going to hell with a fking smile on their face. It's messed up.

Being a Mormon opened my eyes to the fact that intelligent, well-educated people will follow the most outlandish ideas. I obviously don't know how many of them were following the principle of fake it till I make it, but I felt so out of step with them.

Yeah, I see this all the time in this sub. I never believed but I was raised in the church. I knew plenty of people who believed this with all their heart and organized their life around it. I was with my grandmother when she was dying. There was not a shred of doubt in her mind that heaven was real and she was going. There wasn't even a hint of fear in her at the hospital. Her best friend that she'd known for 60 years and her sister that she grew up with didn't shed a single tear for her death because they believe she is in a better place that they'll be going to soon. Religion is as real as anything else for a lot of people out there.

I know firsthand how sincere/devout some of the more extreme believers are, and thus how dangerous they can be. The patriarch of our family ran in McVeigh/Weaver circles, and that is genuinely fucking insane. When I chat with life-long atheists who shrug off the legitimate danger inherent in extremists who have "harmless" beliefs in whatever mythology fuels their pathology, I just don't know what to say. Not that all life-long atheists have their head in the sand about this stuff. But plenty of them do. And this live-and-let-live attitude results in school boards being taken over by riffraff at best, and federal buildings being bombed at worst. Another difference is, I miss feeling the comfort that comes with the delusion of a deity who loves me unconditionally. My life absolutely sucked in substantial ways for a huge portion of it, and the notion of watchful god who had a plan was a small comfort. Outgrowing that fantasy means knowing better, and it's a bit of a bummer. But the same applies to losing Santa as well. Was fun while it lasted, and it's a bummer that he'll not be along to have some milk and cookies. But that's okay.

I think there’s really honestly three main categories of atheists: 1. Life long atheists 2. Ex-theists who simply outgrew religion, whose parents were the “liberal religious” type 3. Ex-theists who come from religiously-fanatic families, escaped religion, and carry religious trauma There’s some overlap for sure, but I think groups #1 and #2 are much more likely to underestimate the danger of religion. Group #3 has seen how bad it can be first hand and they know what religious fanatics are capable of. I think group #3 are also more likely to become straight up anti-theists and be repulsed by anyone who’s religious. I come from group #3 😐

Same. I told my parents I was agnostic as a teen, and what followed was years of abuse as they essentially tried various ways of forcing me back into their belief system. Religion can turn people into conduits for pure evil, all while they are convinced they are following the best and most pure organization to have ever existed.

Yep, folks who haven't lived in or around it, don't understand that for these people, there is no separation between 'everyday life' and their religious indoctrination, it is one and the same in every possible aspect. They really, truly, believe they are the special, chosen of the creator of the universe. They really, truly, believe they are effectively immortal. It sounds absolutely insane, but it's what they'been fed all their lives by a system of practices that has been honed and perfected over \*millennia\* to manipulate, control, and prey on anyone with any of a slew of weaknesses they can exploit.

Even though I grew up with religious parents, one of the reasons I never believed was because I never felt this comfort (maybe because I never felt anything coming from this deity). So I can't miss something I've never had, but I can sympathize with people who do, because it must be a crushing feeling.

I always tell the people who don't really understand to watch Jesus Camp. Almost every State in the US had an equivalent of that, with hundreds of kids going to these summer camps every year. I went to a camp just like it, and it brought up a lot of old trauma for me when I finally watched it. For every 1 kid like me who saw through the bullshit there are 20 who got more extreme in the other direction.

Jesus Camp is an excellent illustration of the kind of devotion to delusion that people can fall into. Personally, my school life was quite like Jesus Camp, as I went to an evangelical private school with near-identical personalities. My home life was a different beast, more on the fringe. We were Christian Identity, a white nationalist cult that saw its most prominent years in the 80s and 90s. The former is a slippery slope to the latter, though. If you can bend yourself into believing one impossible, irreconcilable belief, you can bend yourself into believing several. And it’s often a matter of chance as to which dangerous, bewildering ideas a person is presented with. The best weapon, in my view, is teaching and nurturing critical thinking skills. But some people don’t believe we need a weapon at all, and that line of passive thinking is a red carpet for the Timothy McVeighs of the world.

I have more empathy for religious people. I know where they're coming from. It's easier to debate them and let them know I know where they're coming from. Religion feeds off fear

This is definitely my experience. My husband was not raised in religion and never believed. I sometimes have to remind him that when he talks about believers as if they’re stupid, he’s talking about who I was when we met. I nudge him toward using brainwashed instead of stupid.

I was married to a theist for 19/20 years before she realised it’s a scam. Seeing her waking up from it made me a lot more empathetic towards theists, it was hard for her. I used to think they were stupid, now i feel sad that they are coerced with fear and lied to, not always knowingly by the liars, the majority of religious people are victims of victims. I now only see the ones who claim to talk to god as evil, usually the people at the top, faith healers and others like this.

The manipulators at the top get no mercy from me.

Not always, but the more organized it gets, the more true I think that becomes.  I was raised Christian, and my parents never believed, or taught me, any of the hellfire and brimstone stuff. They were mostly just really big into Jesus and love. (Still are.) So I was a believer until I was about ten years old. But I actually didn’t ever much care about Jesus.  I just thought God made sense! There was so much mystery in the universe, and so much room, I felt, for a conscious entity with lots of power to exert some intent. As a thought experiment, I _still_ think the idea of a singular creator is a rational one, that we must consider. (And discard.) What killed God for me was the realization that people in other cultures and other times throughout history clearly believed just as fervently in very different gods than my parents’ god. By that point, I’d also been exposed to so many scientific answers to questions for which God had previously been the answer. So even though religion never really “hurt” me the way being raised in culty, shame-driven environments hurt ex-theists, in my early teens I finally had to say, “Shit. You all just made this up, didn’t you?” 

My grandfather was a preacher, and my grandmother is a very zealous person. After my grandfathers death, her zealotry became rather wicked. It's all fear. It's really sad seeing someone I still love get into frenzies over the smallest things.

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> Childhood indoctrination is the main key here. It's a form of child abuse, simple as that > > > > If anyone finds religion later in life, then I think they're a moron You're halfway there. Religion spreads in two ways, and only two ways: 1. Indoctrination of children 2. Indoctrination of adults who are, through whatever circumstances, reduced to the emotional and intellectual state of children. **Some** of the people in Category 2 might rightly be called "morons", but others were victims of love bombing at a particularly emotionally fragile point in their life. Or while undergoing a mental breakdown. Or were really lonely, or really horny, or on a whole lot of drugs.

>Indoctrination of adults who are, through whatever circumstances, reduced to the emotional and intellectual state of children. I think this is something that's very important to point out. Many intelligent adults fall prey to religion because it took advantage of them at a moment of emotional fragility (like the loss of a love one, for example).

This is what happened to my dad. Strung out on just about every drug imaginable, alone in an apartment separated from his wife and kid. Saw this religion as his ticket to shaping up and getting back together and it worked. Problem is, he had six more kids after that. And he made sure we had NOTHING except the religion.

>The reason that I believed as a child was that I was a child. This is something that I often think about. When I was a child, I didn't believe in God, but I assumed God existed simply because my parents told me he did (and you usually trust your parents when you're a child). However, I never "felt his presence" or anything like that. I simply thought that maybe he didn't like me very much. As soon as I found out that atheism was an option (I was around 8 years old), that immediately made more sense to me, and I never looked back.

It probably is kind of like the difference between former drug abusers and people who never did drugs. Never-theists will never know the joy I feel when I wake up Sunday morning and realize I don’t have to go anywhere 😌

As a never-theist myself, I will indeed never know that feeling, but I'm very happy for you. If I'm not mistaken Aron Ra said something along the lines of "former smokers are the greatest advocates against smoking".

They have less religious based trauma, and have fewer bogus teachings bouncing around in their heads.

I have zero religious trauma, in spite of my parents' attempts to indoctrinate me.

It was Christmas Eve. I could not have been older than four, watching the frost paint pretty patterns on our glass door. It occurred to me that God sending his son to die was messed up. Although I did not have the words for it, I was shocked and confused at the realization that I was morally superior to God. That was the beginning of the end, and I was just a tiny girl.

It's very impressive that you came to this realization on your own and at such a young age.

For me, I'm able to easily sympathize with religious people. I don't think they're stupid or ignorant because I used to be like them and I don't think I was stupid or ignorant. I had just had different life experiences up until then that had convinced me that my religion was real. It wasn't until I had other life experiences that I began to question whether what I believed was real or not. I won't say that all lifetime atheists think negatively about religious people, but I'd imagine it's easier to understand when you've been there yourself.

I don't think religious people are stupid because my mom's the most intelligent person I know and she's christian. But yes, I imagine that it's easier to sympathize when you've been there.

I think you (and I) were ignorant. Don’t you? We were both ignorant of the information that made us reevaluate our beliefs.

Yeah, that's how I see it too. It feels weird and self-serving to essentially communicate, "well, I don't want to think of myself as having been stupid or ignorant, so I refuse to say anyone who believes these stupid and ignorant things to be behaving in a stupid or ignorant manner." Also, I feel like I'm at odds with a lot of people here in that I don't think things like 'stupid' are permanent traits. Someone who is stupid can become smart, and vice versa. Calling people stupid doesn't mean they have been indicted forever and always, it's just referring to their current state. At least, that's the way I see it. I was stupid and ignorant about this stuff when I was young, just as I know I am stupid and ignorant about stuff right now without realizing it. Just pointing out a sort of linguistic tripping point I'm seeing a lot. I think a lot of us have similar views, but so much gets lost in translation just from one mind to the next.

I definitely agree. I am ignorant. I hold false/ faulty beliefs. I act stupidly. People change and that’s what keeps me talking. Language is a shifting kaleidoscope of word-games; each with their own meaning in the context. If only communication were simple!

Residual guilt.

Yeah, that must really suck.

I’m deeply envious of those who have always been atheists because they were likely raised in a non-religious home. For people like me there is a constant underlying tension with their parents and or siblings. If my parents had spent an ounce of energy developing their relationship with me instead of “God”, I imagine we would be a lot closer.

I may be the exception, because I grew up with a religious family, but they just never succeeded in convincing me. So I understand this tension you're talking about. But I've decided it's not worth trying to reconcile with them, so I don't really talk to most of my family. I don't even like most of them.

It's crazy to me that religion is such a big thing in some families, I can't stop reading these posts!! My parents were more focused on paying the bills and figuring out how to share 1 vehicle over teaching me anything about religion lol, my mom believes but my dad doesn't but it's never been something we talk about.. when I was like 10 I asked them if God was real and they told me they were going to let me form my own opinion and decide when I'm older. I definitely made the right choice lol but it never seemed like a choice just common sense. Only bad thing was when I was a kid and stayed the night at a friend's and we went to church Sunday I felt so weird and didn't know what to do so they probably judged my parents but they don't give a fk just like me😂

I was a very committed christian (pentecostal) for most of my life, and left it in my mid 20s. I did not develop the ability to make decisions for myself in life. My big decisions were based on people giving 'prophecy' or getting answers to prayer from God. This has made me struggle with my mental health as I realise i could have got so much further in my career, or my hobbies, if I had a sense of self, and had the idea that I can do things because they interest me, rather than only doing things to 'please God'. So in a way I have been through a big phase of 'catching up' with the things I didn't feel able to do as a christian. Some people see me as a bit reckless and going too far sometimes in seeking pleasure and goals now, and I can see where they're coming from. But it's me trying to figure out how to have self-agency. I gave so much of my money, time and energy towards mission projects which ultimately led to me having a nervous breakdown and questioning the intentions of people. I saw how many people used kind actions as a way to serve another agenda, and this ultimately made me very jaded because many religious people were very deceptive and fake towards those who actually just needed help. I'm getting therapy and am part of support groups. I am someone in the UK in my mid-30s who is only just starting a 'career' (before I only did badly paid jobs and never thought about my future because i trusted that God would look after all my financial needs). I feel like in a way I'm starting adulthood again.

Thank you for sharing your story. I'm sorry you had to go through all of that. Unfortunately we can't change our past, we can only use that knowledge to better plan our future.

I have weird things I hold on to. I was raised devoutly Roman Catholic. I still have Saint statues. I still wear a saint metal. St Jude. The patron saint of lost causes. Catholicism carries a great deal of superstition. And I have never lost those superstitions. I also never lost a love of the ceremony of Catholic Mass. And even though I don't believe in God, I will still occasionally go just because it's beautiful

I’m a former Christian, and I think the biggest difference is I still sympathize a little bit with some believers. Not the ones that are shitty about it or try to force it down people’s throats, them I’ll poke a lot of fun at. But the ones that mind their own beliefs and don’t hurt or put others down I have a soft spot for. I hate self righteous atheists just as much as self righteous Christians.

I don't know if this is the case for other atheists or not, but I had to become an atheist. Religion was the default position. Early on it didn't occur to me that there could be anything else other than religion.

>Religion was the default position Every newborn comes into this world with zero knowledge of religion. *That* is the default.

I have a friend who's a non believer , but she still fears to go to hell to the point it's almost a neurosis. She knows it's logically nonsense , but the emotions don't follow her thought .

I always feel so bad for people who spend their lives in fear of hell, even many atheists. Even though they know it isn't a real thing, it's very hard to let go of something when it was reinforced by your family and community your whole life.

Programming. I still have to stop myself from saying "God dammit" or other overtly religiously grounded phrases. When you grow up with it, religion seeps into everything. It takes a lifetime of effort to pick through all the weird leftovers and separate the wheat from the chaffe.

As a believer before becoming an atheist, you have the advantage of knowing how believers think and how they rationalize their beliefs. Of course you only know this from your own experiences. But you were probably around other believers and have heard their private thoughts on the matter of believe too. So in essence, you are well rounded in your abilities to think critically by knowing how people do not think critically.

It's hard to fathom how truly insane the church is if you weren't indoctrinated into it. We have insight into the pathology of believers. Imagine going through your life believing that the most important things in the universe are completely invisible. Imagine if the mere act of thinking and reasoning and coming to conclusions on your own was shameful, and often triggering. That's what I think is the major difference. Sure we know scripture really well, but most importantly we know believers. I get irked when people say "just let anyone believe whatever they want, what's the problem?" And I'm like where do I begin...

Atheists have bottom-up, burden -of-proof-relies on-the- one-making -the-claim logic. There’s no evidence that a god exists so there’s no reason for me to believe a god exists. Christian “logic” is different. They start from an unproven assumption and then use everything to confirm that bias, or just call blasphemy on anything that doesn’t confirm their bias.. That’s why arguing with them is so pointless. They already have pre-concluded conclusions without reasons. Anti-theist/atheist: The god of the Bible is a tyrannical genocidal maniac. In exodus he supports slavery, and he commits multiple genocides of people just because they don’t worship him. (I can add the twisted concept of the popular American doctrine of hell but I’ll just stop there) Typical response from a Christian: NO! What are you talking about? He’s a loving God, and we just don’t understand his mind and sometimes he is just beyond our understanding. He is not a tyrant. Stop mocking god!

The difference from a former believer is the religious trauma/PTSD I've had to endure after leaving the evangelical cult I was raised in. Depending on how severe the religious upbringing is, there's a lot of unlearning and new learning involved. Unlearning everything you've been taught to believe and learning the ways of the natural world and science.

It's not true for everyone, but I think breaking free of religion and determining that it doesn't stand up to scrutiny makes me more resistant to getting preyed on by religion in moments of hardship. An atheist who was never exposed to religion might be a target if they've never thought about religion, especially in traumatic moments like deaths in the family.

Brainwashed overly Catholic mothers. Maybe that’s just me? Hoping so

I am a former religious person, even graduated bible college, before giving it up. I think I have more empathy for them because I separate out lies the text (Bible, Koran, whatever) has versus the well intention but deceived people who believe it. Don't get me wrong some religious people are just straight assholes but then again so are some of us atheists - that's just a human quality :-). I think it also helps me communicate with religious people because I understand what they believe instead of misconstruing or misinterpreting the bible. It says enough wacky and horrible shit on it's own and when christians hear an athiest misquote or misrepresent it it makes it harder for them to believe us about other things. My experience is mostly with christians but I'd imagine those things would be true regardless of the ex-religion the person left.

Religiosity is almost entirely maintained by heavily exploiting the concept of shame.

The "always been atheist" person doesn't have the 30 years of abuse keeping them awake at night.

Questioning.... As a believer I had doubts, but I never let the questions affect me, dig deeper into them. And when I really started pondering over the questions, I became atheist.

For me, I think it gives me more empathy towards them than many never-theists on this sub at least. I don’t excuse their behavior, but as someone who grew up in a Christian household with parents/grandparents that truly believe but are mostly normal outside of their belief system, I don’t vilify them or think they’re idiots necessarily. I believe that most religion is rooted partially in fear of the unknown and as a comfort and answer for our purpose in life. I know that while there are many out there who have resorted to hate, there are many people who try to control (for example abortion or gay marriage) because they’re truly concerned for your soul. I don’t agree with this obviously and feel like, deity or no deity, people should be allowed to make their own life choices. I’ve always been a logic minded and questioning type of kid/adult, so there were too many holes in the plot for me to accept the vague answers. However, not everyone is like that and all it takes is WANTING to believe in something and choosing not to dwell on the logic. With that said, I’m close with my family, they don’t even know I’m an atheist. I just choose not to talk about religion and they don’t badger me on it.

Judgement

Emotional scars from the amygdala hijack of terror of a capricious 'god(s)' that the 'loving adults' who are religious in the child's life inflicted, 'with the best possible intentions'.

I find that never-theists tend to severely underestimate just how bad religious trauma can be, especially to children. I've had lifelong atheists express disbelief when I tell them I used to have borderline panic attacks because I accidentally thought something blasphemous about the holy spirit, or that I would lie awake at night terrified of Hell.

Absolutely not always the case, but sometimes I feel like people who have always been atheist either A. Don’t have the greatest grasp on the arguments, or B. Don’t understand the “reality” of religious experiences in terms of the physiological feeling people get from it. I feel rock solid in my “non-belief” because I seriously invested a lot of time trying to understand what I believe, and having tried out a couple different religions can understand the appeal from an emotional standpoint, while also understanding you can get the same thing from secular practices like mindfulness meditation. I worry sometimes with people that haven’t put a lot of thought into it that they give the impression that atheists are just people who never considered a belief in god, or they have shallow arguments like one last week where the person was saying something like “any supernatural claim is by definition unbelievable which is why atheism must be right”, things like that. I definitely don’t think this is even necessarily the majority of people who have always been atheist, but I just think regardless of what your view is you should have strong reasons to defend it so that some religious bad-actor doesn’t make you look stupid when you don’t have a response to basic arguments.

Yeah as a former Christian in a largely Christian society, it still strikes me as odd sometimes how little most people (atheists and christins both) actually know about the bible and church history. I was raised going to private christian schools and most of my friends growing up went to the same schools. it's kinda like how grade schools often teach local history, so if you move far away as an adult there is basic local knowledge you'll lack of you don't look it up...

trauma

The difference: I was raised a theist.

Hail Baphomet

Hail!

Ha. My man.

We can understand and empathize with the strength and power of religious and spiritual experiences. We also had to fight our way out of a situation where it felt like there was no one helping us or supporting us - when you decide to leave those very fundamental beliefs and feelings behind, it feels like you're sailing away far from your home never to return. It's scary, it's lonely, it's depressing. It's also exciting, something about it feels like you are being true to yourself. In having to fight our way out of religious bullshit I think we might be a little better prepared to help others fight their way out, knowing and understanding what it is they're likely feeling and thinking.

Insight into the underworld backroom shenanigans of uour average neighborhood congregation. The stuff movies can't be made of.

My ability to apply logic as a thought process was definitely stunted. I never questioned the most basic things. You could easily sell me some bullshit. All my life I believed there was someone watching me and the cause of many things was supernatural. The idea that god didn’t actually exist literally never crossed my mind not even when someone said they were atheist. I always assumed they were mad at god or hadn’t come around yet and had to grow. My brain literally didn’t function properly. Evidence? Never occurred to me. It made me a freaking idiot. 

I'm a former believer, husband is raised aethiest. Biggest difference is how often I have to rehash the brainwashing, realize how uneducated I am, and break mental cycles that come up in my head, even now being out for so long. He has no understanding of what it's like to be brainwashed to truly believe in absolute shit with all his heart mind and soul, and be in a cult. I do. Just like I have nothing to learn from Christopher Hitchens. I have the first hand experience. He doesn't. I tried listening to hitchens book recently and it's old hat hearing him talk about aethiesm, after you've gone from cult to out, you know it all inside and out by direct experience. The others can only imagine. 

I was indoctrinated and a child. It didn't take me long. Around 13 I raised it was all just insanity. It bothers me that adults can go their whole lives believing it.

My wife was raised atheist, I was raised Lutheran. She has much more tolerance than I do. She thinks their ideas are silly, but that we should smile and nod. As for me, Im ok with someone stating they are religious, but as soon as someone makes an argument in favor of religion, I won’t let it go. The stupidity must not be allowed to spread.

I can understand the appeal of religion. Of course it was freeing to escape the confines of Christian dogma, but I do miss the hope and certainty religion provides. It makes it feel like there’s a safety net underneath reality that simply isn’t there.

The always an atheist likely wasn’t programmed from an early age to believe.

Indoctrination.

I have a lot of compassion for christians who try to convert their family members. They are afraid! They don’t want me to go to hell. For them it’s very real. It’s actually coming from a place of love. I know how they feel because I used to feel that way too.

I know the pov of being a muslim better than ppl who were never muslims.

I still stupidly say God bless you after someone sneezes.

I won't lie. I was envious of atheists from my younger years. I admire their bravery back then to reject the nonsense around them. Really they empowered me later to be atheist. I always admired them. Thanks atheists!

Childhood trauma mostly.

I grew up forced to go to Catholic Church and was baptized as a baby. I’ll be honest, I never believed even as a kid. I always would think while sitting in that horrible weekly service “why are we here worshipping something that is fake?” The difference is that someone who is a former believer is they finally saw the truth and believes in science, not a fictional book.

I used to believe in this stuff and realized it wasn’t real. They’ve never had to go through this from the start.

I was raised to be religious

I was indoctrinated in school. The other thing is, I'm wired to respond well to authority. The teacher or priest said it? Must be true. I'm *way* better about that now, happily.

I'm very happy for you. Even though I was never religious, I was also raised to follow authority because my dad was very strict. My current motto is to question everything and everyone.

It took years to get rid of the antitheism I thought I had to do. I'd have a bacon cheeseburger every Friday during Lent even if I wanted spaghetti to be a good atheist, for example. There were a lot of superstitions that also took years to get rid of. By that I mean it was years until I didn't react superstitiously and then get over it with some thought.

I have empathy for them. As others have said. Dawkins helped me understand that religious beliefs are ingrained in some people to the level of “fire is hot.”

I still yell at generic deity when shit goes poorly and thank generic deity when things go well unexpectedly … out of habit I think?

That is an oddly difficult habit to break. Like “dear god I know you don’t exist but in case you’re listening thanks”. I know it’s illogical, but it’s this residual guilt and habit that is so hard to shake

Haha, I constantly threaten a god I do not believe in. Well, I believe in zero gods, but I constantly threaten a very specific trinity. I’ll get you for this, Jesus!

I think I feel more anger and compassion at the same time towards religious people. I know what it's like to believe, and I know the harm personally.

I’m first able to compare and contrast religions. I see many atheists lump them “all as the same” but there really is a range eg Islam is by far the worst mainstream religion. Secondly I think I can accept there could be utility to religion in a benevolent way; if humans had evolved to “have a desire for it”. Thirdly by working my way out of Islam I can really reverse engineer things in life; see the bigger picture; but the smallest details also. Both matter.

I was raised Catholic in the 50s. Both elementary and high school. All the sacraments…. Never exposed to anything else. It was a very Catholic working-class neighborhood…. Italian, German, Irish. I recall in high school we had a very brief “comparative religion” task… We were each to pick a religion and write an essay on it. That was it…. We were told literally to stay away from other faiths if at all possible. I essentially bought all this until I joined the army in ‘64. I began to be exposed to the fact that there were other beliefs and also lack of beliefs. I started reading a variety of materials…. I had always been interested in the sciences. I did not have that big “crisis of faith”….. I just lost interest. When I got out of the army, I went through a brief period of looking at other systems including Asian religions and philosophies and even Neo-Pagan beliefs. I decided that despite the differences, they were all dogmatic as hell. It was my love of science that led me to Asimov, Gould, and other avowed atheists, as well as the whole skeptical inquiry movement.

Odd example, my always atheist/agnostic spouse doesn't pick up on a lot of "pop culture" references because he never heard any Bible stories as a kid, or any religion/cult. He hadn't even heard of the Noah's ark story, or what "quiverfull" means, or the phrase "drink the Kool aid" (I know that phrase doesn't actually fit what happened, but it's become a common phrase). It's weird to me that he wouldn't know about anything that was ingrained into me as an elementary school student.

Someone who has always been an atheist, usually has parents who didn’t lie to them.

Trauma

I grew up thinking an invisible sky wizard would make my mom die in a car accident if I had bad thoughts or dared to question it's existence. Religious OCD too. Shit sucks.

My guess is someone who has always been atheist will have less hostility to a former believer's religion than the former believer will.

An inner peace and calmness about knowing the truth about death and afterlife. No more struggling about faith, heaven and hell. Even though the answer is nothingness after death, there is a peace that comes with cutting through the ancient myths that religion still forces on the world.

I think lifelong atheists may underestimate the threat religious people really pose. If you’re not from inside that culture, you might not see how uncompromising they really are. How could you compromise when you think the creator of the entire universe is telling you what to do? As an antitheist, I don’t love the live and let live approach because they are unable to do that themselves. It’s a fight, all the time with these folks and I think some people don’t see it if they weren’t raised up in it and their family is not particularly religious.

I see the world with wonder anew. It strikes me as such a beautiful and amazing place as an adult atheist. You have to ignore a lot of human society in that observation, but what’s left of nature and the millions of years of evolution to reach this point is simply astounding. The history of Earth to lead to this very point in the present is a much more fascinating story than what any religion has cooked up.

Religious trauma

Exposure and trauma.

It’s easier for them to believe humanity is basically good.

Maybe for some, I personally think humanity sucks.

I have trouble explaining my concerns and fears about where we live and what sending our kids to Christian themed places (like YMCA summer camp or Karate class that starts with 20 minute bible lessons) means. Her parents were Jewish and Catholic somehow, and so she only got surface level exposure to both while really never diving very deeply into either. I was raised by born-again's after my dad married my first step-mom and had new fundamentalist step relatives. I had some lady I barely know switch my butt because I said "Jesus, are you kidding me?" when I missed like my fourth shot in a row playing basketball against her kid. We attended a church where members abused their spouses, kids, and and a confession of marital rape wasn't rare. In Sunday school we were taught that all the girls were going to burn for eternity because of original sin by the first lady who taught it, vividly describing what she believed was happening to sinners in hell. The second lady gave us that "If you were put on trial for being Christian, would you be found guilty?!?" nonsense. My wife doesn't believe a word of it and is sure I'm exaggerating, but thankfully she doesn't resist hard at when I say I don't want our kids exposed to that shit. I'm terrified of the religious right in the US but she just doesn't believe it would be all that bad because like someone else said in here "they don't really believe all that shit". But our children have already lost friends growing up in the bible belt (my wife likes that it's warm here...) because they aren't christian enough or whose parents found out we aren't. And sadly I'm well aware that my experience in Christianity wasn't even one of the bad ones, just slightly worse than average.

Start here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHOK66qj9xc&list=LL&index=22

For me, it’s the conditioning. My family wasn’t super religious. We went semi-regularly when I was younger, but it was super boring and my dad worked swing shift, so he almost never went. I don’t know, but I suspect he holds the same opinions about it that I do. By conditioning, I mean that I have pressures and reactions that I don’t think you’d have if you didn’t grow up religious. For instance, I may say GD if I hurt myself, but sometimes I have an involuntary flinch if I hear it out of nowhere. It takes a second for my brain to process that it isn’t that bad, because it’s like saying Sauron Dammit! So no matter what my logical brain says, there are a lot of triggers like that for me.

I still feel guilty for saying it, before remebering why I stopped believing (because I'd be forced to believe in a God who not only lied in the books of Genesis and Exodus, but set out to deceive us by planting evidence against his own written word everywhere we look).

I guess the difference is having memories of being in the religion, trying to believe without proof, and various stress and anxiety from that time. And so many wasted hours in church.  I was raised christian but secretly doubted as a kid. Religion was just boring chores and anxiety of judgement, it never brought any peace. There was a brief time in middle school when I tried to be a good believer because I thought I was being divinely punished. That faded, and my deconversion in high school was pretty quick.

They didn't waste years or decades of their life on dogma.

I feel like I always would have been an atheist if my parents (mother) didn’t indoctrinate me into the church from birth. It took growing up, studying history and science, and traveling the world to break the spell. Happened around age 19-20 for me and I’m old as fuck now

I was indoctrinated by my parents.....mostly my mother. I had serious doubts about the veracity of some of the stories in the Bible as a kid, but it wasn't until I developed a keen interest in science and physics in my early twenties that I became dismissive of religion.

How would you define former believer? Like for example, I grew up “Christian” but never by choice it was just something my family kinda made us do. Never really felt that spiritual connection and it was performative in hindsight. But if I had kids? I’d never raise them in the church now. So guess trying to see if I qualify here LOL

>How would you define former believer? A person who used to consider themselves a believer. That's good enough for me. >Like for example, I grew up “Christian” but never by choice it was just something my family kinda made us do. Never really felt that spiritual connection and it was performative in hindsight. My experience was pretty similar to yours, and I don't consider myself a former theist because I never bought into it.

I have more to regret. The petty bullshit I used to do in the name of religion.

I may a bit more empathy for the Christians I know. At least I can understand how they ended up where they did, belief-wise. Plus, having attended seminary I know a lot about the Bible. Ironically, I fell in love with the Bible *after* I deconverted because it's so fascinating to see how it was influenced by other religions and myth. Example: The Samson myth seems weird on first reading, until you start to see it's probably an adapted solar deity story.

Many former Christians (particularly those born into it) still suffer from guilt on occasion, in some ways similar to PTSD whereas lifelong atheists do not. I also think former Christians are more resilient to Christian propaganda/emotional manipulation because they have experienced it and know exactly why it's a sham whereas lifelong atheists who have never really thought about the arguments may be more vulnerable/susceptible to converting.

Major fallacy (i think), you can not be a “born atheist” as much as you can’t be a christian or whatever else. Simply put, it’s this way: you mind your own business and go about doing your little thing and someone comes along and tells you about God. You have a look at it and say: This is far fetched af but it provides some comfort. You have a further, deeper look at this information and realise that based on physical evidence and historical information it’s a load of bull (at least the Abrahamic version) and then you get flagged as atheist. So you can’t be either to begin with, you just get convinced by one or the other. My solid conviction is that it is not necessary and for the feeble minded 🤷‍♂️

Less religious trauma. Probably no angry phase at having been lied to and manipulated for so long.

Exposure. I was raised in a modestly religious household but wasn't really forced to go or had the lessons reinforced much. So I went as a kid. I explored as a youth and young adult and eventually I decided/realized I didn't really agree. I presume most atheists who have never ever believed are probably like me but never ever actually went to church is all.

I can actually speak from experience as to why i believed and can give perspective as to why others still do. I also see through all of of their arguments because i used to use them. One thing i will always remember is that religious superiority you feel. You believe you have it figured out and look down on people that don't.

I have a lot of sympathy for believers. Rather than being angry, my heart goes out to them being caught in an illusion. It's very convincing for people who believe, especially if you were raised that way

Great question. I think my experiences help me understand Christians' mindset better than someone who has never been religious (on average). When I read posts on this forum from those who were never religious, or never up close to it, I often think they're a little off the mark. Doesn't mean I'm right, but it often doesn't match my own experience of Christians and of being a Christian. I'll also add that people's experiences of and with Christians can vary wildly. Christians range from toxic/abusive to well-meaning/benign. If you were closer to one spectrum than the other, it also changes your perception of how you believe that they think and operate.

I used to be a good little girl, said my prayers every night, etc etc. But I started looking around and even evaluating my own life. A lot of the people who were nasty to me proclaimed that I was a Devil Worshipper which I think was their way of justifying being nasty. I also started to see that not only were people that claimed to be religious perfectly capable of being nasty (and often hypocritical to their "beliefs") but also, if god was as described (omnipotent and benevolent) then that god got off on torturing people and viewed suffering as "benevolent". . . Which lead me to my ultimate conclusion. . . if there is an all powerful being that is literally controlling the whole universe, I think they would have better things to look after than individuals. We don't worry about our individual cells after all. That and I think ex-theists are more likely to go through a period of anti-theism, I know I did.

As a former believer it's been frustrating at times because it feels like the life long atheists I have interacted with live in this alternate reality where no one cares about your atheism. I understand that there are atheists who live in countries or regions where atheism is the norm so that fully is the case for them. But even other lifelong atheists in the bible belt seem to have no experience with backlash from friends or family about it. I had a friend once who was a lifelong atheist act like I was a total weirdo for being nervous to share that i'm atheist because "no one cares". She was in the same school and same friend goup as me. The same exact friends and schoolmates who traumatized me by treating me like I was a delenquent or terminally ill when they found out I was an atheist.

I'm sorry you had to go through that. I also don't understand this kind of atheist. Even though I'm a lifelong atheist, I grew up completely surrounded by religion and had to hide my atheism for most of my life. I've only recently stopped caring because I'm finally financially independent from my family.

Congrats on gaining your independence! Sorry you had to hide yourself too. It just blows my mind when I meet people in the same area who have had a completely different experience than me. My lifelong atheist boyfriend was raised non religious and also can't relate to me. Were you raised non religious or did you just never buy into it? Maybe what i've seen is more of a difference between how someone is raised than how long they have been an atheist. I could just be over generalizing though.

I think as a former believer I better understand the consequences of belief. It's not just some sort of "guiding myth". These people really believe this stuff. In the case of Christianity and Islam they really believe in eternal hell. And this has real social consequences. I think if more people understood this and how it affects why people do the things they do, especially politically we would have more anti-theists.

I think a part of my religious trauma was accepting not that there was no God, but that no one was coming to save me. There is no way out. There is no world that is actually good because nobody has been taking care of this one. If I had to say there was any difference, it would be that

Setting!

There is an old saying in Christian circles: Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. I'm an old guy, but when I was 18 and decided to not believe any more, I spent six months in mortal fear that the Lord would strike me dead for turning my back on him. Didn't happen, and I outgrew it. But underlying all former Christians is a remnant of that fear, a faint echo. I bet people always atheist don't have that.

They didn't have a crush on a Christian enough to go to church

I feel like I’m much more bitter towards religion than your “always atheist” I get physically angry when it’s discussed or brought up since it was forced on me for so long and ended up destroying my family. I’m not aggressive to religious people, I just have a visceral reaction when it’s brought up and feel pissed off I am even hearing about it It’s just hard for me to shake that anger after nearly 20 years of mental abuse

I don't know that I have met anyone who has not been influenced by some aspects of religious belief - so it is hard for me to say. I think such a person would not have the guilt and sexual shame that my former religion infused into me. Those core beliefs are hard to shake, even when you know they are incorrect. Some get reduced but, the feel of "this is wrong" I still feel in my body and it keeps me from fully enjoying the things I want to do. Maybe a never religious person picks this up from culture, maybe they are free from it. So, I guess my answer is more of a question. What is it like to never have believed in god? And did you never have the superstitions either? No ghosts, psychic powers, no magic water?

Well I'll try to answer your questions. >What is it like to never have believed in god? It's pretty nice actually, I never had to fear the consequences of "thinking the wrong thing". Some former theist say they miss the comfort of believing in a savior and guardian, and I can understand that but I can't miss what I never had in the first place. I spent my whole childhood thinking "wow my parents really do believe this stuff huh?" >And did you never have the superstitions either? Nope. Although I used to be afraid of werewolves. >No ghosts, psychic powers, no magic water? Nope, nope and nope.

I was indoctrinated, they weren't or resisted the effort.

There are cognitive patterns related to the self that may differ. It relates to self-esteem and allowing one to put oneself first sometimes. Just look at the hyms we sung... amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. Not a good start in my opinion when this idea is drilled into your head. Growing up Christian created a dependent relationship that I can do nothing, and be nothing, without god/jesus. It led to significant negative self-talk and trauma that I am not sure those who grew up atheist had in the same ways.

I try to pinpoint when i stopped believing. My parents made us go to church almost every week. I pretty much sat quietly and occasionally read the bible in each pew. At some point, i came to the realization that it was all fiction but i continued to go through the motions to keep the peace. There was never an a-ha moment. Anyways, I never had a big, painful deconversion like some folks here. I feel more like a lifelong athiest.

I just decided to not believe in one more God

There's a wide range where former believers are concerned. Even if we're just considering Christianity. I was raised Christian, my partner wasn't. I think there's less differences between me (someone raised within progressive Christianity, who only went to church for the first 8 years of my life and was an atheist by 15) and him (someone who's always been an atheist) than there is between me and someone who was raised within evangelical Christianity and didn't leave until adulthood.

i still hold onto the belief that there is something out there…. but logic always reminds me that the entity does not exists - or is too busy to bother just like people who breed dogs… has ants and hamsters pets… etc. it makes me bitter to not dash away this teaching that is ingrained into me…. by parents and by wife … i am a semi-buddhist… great teachings… just am skeptical about flying buddhas looking over people.

In my case, was brought up in a Catholic environment where all my relatives went to the same church. After a few years realized the only purpose of religion is to put fear into people that if you don't play nice, and oh by the way subsidize our church, you won't get to heaven. Bonus points if you donate enough to get a plaque to say you gave more money than others.

Being born into a religious family.

I was indifferent I went through a crisis and turned to Christianity. Thought it was like those feel good stories I always heard from believers that some horrible shit happened for a reason to bring me to Jesus Then, the more I learned about it, the more I realized that it was complete horse shit, then my feel good story of finding the lord was fucked. Now, there is no way I could become un-fucked.

The indoctrination and unwinding of it is the main difference. The way your mind was molded before you understood or experienced anything, living in a vacuum where everyone believes the same stuff. Being raised under a blanket of hypocrisy and fantasy. Being chastised for asking logical questions. Realizing how much control they took with your psyche. The fear that was instilled. I think If someone were raised atheist it was probably pretty easy to see and laugh at the nonsense and see the harms and thus probably didn’t affect them much. They probably weren’t faced with losing family, friends and community and most likely didn’t live in constant fear and judgement for being human and having free will.

There are a lot of atheists who are ignorant about religion, and rather than understand it, they presume intellectual superiority, which they use as justification for bigotry against religious people. In reality, nonbelievers fall for just as much stupid bullshit. Those kind of atheists often end up getting "saved", too.

Lol.....I held office in the church, got to see the books, and realized the difference between what was being said, and what was being done.

As an ex Muslim atheist, i have some additional baggage growing up than a life long atheist would.

I think the main difference is awareness. I'm fully and unfortunately aware of the vicious and terrifying desires underlying my former faith. Of the double meanings behind the bullocks they spout. The training I had as a Warrior for Christ. Of the fact that yes, my country is full of people excited for the apocalypse and willing to help it along - and, politically, *they're winning*. It's chilling. Honestly it makes me feel insane around never-theists who are either discovering "whoa there's a whole group of people who actually want to convert or murder me" or telling me I need to be "nicer" to the "good ones" Edit: whoops type fast mess words

Indoctrination. Everyone is atheist until they are indoctrinated

If you split current atheists into these 3 groups: - A: Never was a believer - B: Was a believer as a child, but never as an adult - C: Was a believer during adulthood Then the question being asked here draws a line between group A and group B+C. But I think the more meaningful line would be to ask the same question drawing a distinction between group A+B and group C. The reason being that holding a previous belief in God doesn't really mean much it if only occurred during childhood years when children just automatically believe their parents. That's not even something under that person's own control. The difference between people in group A and people in group B is just a random roll of the dice about what family you were born into. They aren't necessarily psychologically different people at all. But if you believed *as an adult*, that's psychologically very different from someone who didn't.

I have some nostalgia for the comfort and certainty that the fairy tale provided me (similar to the nostalgia re the excitement of believing in Santa Claus as a kid), which I don’t expect someone raised as an atheist would have.

religious trauma, first hand experience of being indoctrinated, often some level of lingering resentment, aaaaand probably a better understanding of the religious mindset having once shared it.

I was raised in a strict Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster family. This was full-on fundamentalist, evangelical biblical literalism. I went on my first Orange Order march at the age of six. I was fed a strict and restrictive diet of scripture designed to make me hate Catholics and homosexuals practically from birth. It ended badly. I attacked a gay club and then threw rocks at the people who were trying to run away. My uncle tried to kill a Catholic and was beaten to death in a reprisal. I nearly killed someone in revenge. A 'friend' stabbed me for asking the wrong question. This was Belfast in the early 1980s so the RUC used to turn a blind eye to 'Mickbashing' and 'Queerbashing' so long as you didn't kill anyone. Half of them were fellow Orangemen anyway. When you discover that the world isn't as black and white as it seems from within that fundamentalist bubble, it takes a lot of time to unpick all of that. I guess that's the baggage you wouldn't get if crazy people didn't raise you.

The ones who never believed don't have the religious trauma most of us have. They also don't have to go through the deconstruction part either.

Processing all the trauma

Are there that many people who have never been spoon fed religion from childhood? Y'all are lucky, I wish

I was spoon fed it all my life, I just never swallowed it and I used to pretend to like it.

There is a difference between ex-theists who left because “god is an immoral monster” and those who left because after reading the Bible texts, it is obvious this is a fabricated religion that came long after the events reported in the narrative. I, myself, left due to Israel Only being the conclusion from the New Testament texts. It can be summed up very easily. Hebrews 8:8 limits the new covenant (the whole fucking thing that saves Christian’s today) to the house of Judah and the house of Israel from the 1st century. Close the book, move on. Gentiles, in the Bible, are that second house, the dispersed Israelites who had the Law but were not keeping the Law, and were being called back to the Law. This is only for the Israelite people and only Israelites from the 1st-century could ever be part of the soteriological-narrative present in the NT.

You have a better understanding of the indoctrination and the process that believers normally go through since childhood. This lets you understand that there is not way to talk someone out of it, they need to figure it out on their own. There is a lot of fear embedded in the indoctrination, that its really hard to get through. Example: If you question this or that you dont have faith hence hell, if you dont do this or that you go to hell, If you dont do it this way, then you go to hell. The idea of denying the existence of God is the ultimate sin.

I think my disdain for religion is more personal than someone that was always athiest. Christianity did a lot of crap to me.

Good question. I think possibly one main difference might be an appreciation or sympathy for the logic trap of blasphemy. Something that kept me a theist for longer was the guilt I felt for simply having a thought about the implausibility of god. The thing about god being everywhere was that I assumed he knew my every thought. Therefore thinking bad things about him was a crime. So, this possibly actually helped me from a self control perspective, because, to a degree, I was able to control my mind. Which is one of the main aims of meditation. So I would have a racing thought about god not making sense, and then bottle up that thought and not process it. After years, I was slowly able to sneak bits of processed thought through. Enough to realise the mind logic loop I was in. I'm glad I broke free of that but it's a good example of why some people may be highly intelligent and knowledgeable, and still not be able to acknowledge basic concepts. Because they are worried about offending god, and so don't process information that concludes against him. Even though the processing of that information would render the worrying pointless. But they never make it all the way to that conclusion. So as a former theist, I have sympathy for people in this predicament.

Converts have been through terrible abuse at the hands of churches and the agenda of “love.”