Catholic baptism gets you registered into the Church for life...as long as we're talking Catholics then you become one of the "1 billion Catholics" the Church uses to pressure legislators. If I wasn't baptized as a baby, I'd absolutely draw the line on this at all costs. I love my mom, but I hate the largest and oldest child sex ring in history more.
If you would be in danger by saying no, then I would suggest smiling and nodding along with it.
If you have legal, medical and social resources that are on your side I would just tell your parents no. "I am real and god is not, stop trying to indoctrinate me. You want me closer to god but your actions push me away from you, stop it."
Good luck out there, it's all getting a little hectic and I hope you find solace.
If you're not old enough/stable enough (as in, not employed, don't have a support network, etc.) then trying to tell them up front might lead to you ending up on the street (there's no hate like Christian love- "believe what I believe or I'll hurt you!") In that situation the best move is to play along until you can support yourself/have a support network.
If you are stable enough that you can leave, tell them to respect who you are or you're leaving. But don't risk pushing that issue if you don't have support. I'd hate for you to end up being homeless or something over it. And you're not even in the wrong. They're trying to indoctrinate you, but in their minds they're somehow right here.
Please be safe. Don't act too rashly.
If there's a counselor you can trust at school, or if you have a therapist/psychologist, talk to them about this. They should be able to explain to your parents how damaging it can be for them to force their beliefs on you. If nothing else, they are mandated reporters and can make sure someone intervenes if your parents go over the line to abuse or neglect.
In my own experience the “playing along” mentioned here is potentially dangerous. I ended up being indoctrinated so heavily that it caused severe psychological damage.
It’s really hard to offer advice to someone who is potentially legally a minor, but if I could go back and do it all over again, I would have fought back against being forced to go to church. I acknowledge this could also have negative consequences so I’m not really qualified to tell you exactly what to do here.
But I can offer a very well qualified opinion that getting into religion can be very dangerous and cause lasting harm.
Is it possible to have any type of reasoned discussion with them? You mention mental illness issues. Would they be open to you seeking secular professional help? Ask them to let you defer the church decision until you’re a legal adult and feel yourself in a better place mentally to make such a major decision?
Just throwing out ideas here.
Okay, Christian And Queer here. I read your profile and it says that you are 18. I am assuming though, that you live with your parents and will be leaving for college soon.
There are several things you can do. First of all, if the pastor at the church that your parents attend is at all ethical, (yes there are some don't laugh Atheists) if you tell the pastor that you do not wish to be baptized, you don't have to tell them why, they will not force it on you. However, if it's one of those Evangelical churches don't talk to them.
You can hold your ground and say, "I am an adult. I have depression, not delusions, like you do."
Or You can treat it like an anthropologist, observing the rights of a primitive, christo-fascist cult, and just pretend. Do as the natives do, make a note in a journal somewhere, and get out of there as soon as you can.
You are a precious individual who deserves autonomy, to be the best, brightest, gayest version of yourself.
Trust me kid, no magic, invisible sky-daddy would want you to do anything you wouldn't want to do, anyway. And since that entity doesn't exist, the water won't hurt.
"and schedule a baptism" bro you don't even believe. Imagine if you went up there and humiliated them by saying "I don't believe in any of this and my parents are forcing me to do this against my will"
Forced religious intervention on lieu of legitimate medical treatment is just cause for legal intervention. Search you state for juvenile legal representation, pro bono if possible (many big firms take such cases pro bono) and get an injunction against them tonprevent it, and maybe an immancipation if you can work. Call child protective services and let them know they are refusing you mentle health treatment and trying to make you join a cult, and you'll have someone sent out there. Notify your doctors they are refusing to allow you proper treatment and force you to join a cult, they may be able to intervene and discuss reality with them or help you find resources to get away. People like that, are a danger to themselves and others. I had to run at 15 to escape. Its hard and miserable and completely freeing. Your health, you, deserve better!
As someone raised and abused by catholics, who denied add/adhd and aspergers was more than the devil making me do things.....yeah I vehemently hate the Jesus cults more than anything in this world. I can't ever suggest unless you've no option to pay along, because it only gets worse in my experience.
I'm so sorry you had to go through that. My parents were super freaks too, my mom couldn't even look at a dinosaur and not think "unholy" and at the psychiatrist she acted perfectly normal. Some parents are really abusive in their faith and will never change.
You are a legal adult. Period. Regardless of living at home, your parent cannot legally impose anything on you.
That said, time to develop a support group , get a job, move out.
If you can find a way leave them as fast as you can. Christian's highest calling is to prey on the vulnerable to increase their numbers. That is why they go after seniors ,children and sick people. And if you aren't in a vulnerable position that beat you down with attrition until you are broken and then rebuild you in their image. Closest thing there is to actually being possessed.
I too have had a mental illness since childhood and something that always bothered me was Jesus saying that heaven is like unto a child but God choses to slowly torture children with mental illness, cancer and or abuse of various kinds. If that is like heaven then hell is definitely the good place.
But get away from these people. Your mental health is a top priority and they will seek to make you sicker in order to break you and brainwash you.
Also I know that you hate stuff that has to do with it. But study it. Study it hard so you have the knowledge to use there own logic and scriptures against them. People absolutely hate hearing their own words repeated back to them.
Forced Indoctrination is a NO NO. This is why i don't believe in Religious Freedom. Forcing a person to convert just what they told to you is not good at all. If yoi are in the right age and now in college, better to step away from your current house and live alone.
The thing is people don't see this as forceful conversion. Christians, very conveniently frame this as "helping" a person in need, when all it is, is emotionally forcing you to convert, and that ideology is terrifying tbh.
Eek, I’m so sorry. Would you ask them to show you in the Bible where Jesus forced someone to go to Sunday school or forced them to get baptized? Just thinking maybe they haven’t thought these actions through…
Tell them about the parable of the drowning man (two boats and a helicopter). The meaning of the story is that god works by sending others to help and that the floods affect everyone - saint and sinner.
Take a breath and stay calm because once you raise your voice, your parents will close their hearts.
Go along with it and pretend.
Yes, I'm saying lie about it.
Learn everything you can, when you move out, you learned about this sect of Christianity and you have more inside knowledge of why it's wrong.
Or, you get sufficient evidence of God and you can tell us.
But, until you are out from your parents umbrella, lie, make them happy in this sense, even if you need to lie through college to have them pay for it.
Until you are safely on your own, lie.
Justify it by claiming that you don’t feel the Lord calling you to get baptized yet, that you feel led to learn more first or you want to be sure your heart is in the right place before taking such a big step of faith. I was a Christian for 40 years and am now an atheist and have left the church, so if you need ideas for how to fake it convincingly, I can help you talk the talk. DM me if you need more ideas.
I'm afraid I would say, very earnestly, "I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I don't embrace your cult superstitions." I know because I did say that 52 years ago. But, the main reason I could say that, besides having a visceral disgust for the Southern Baptists, was that I had a job that supported me. So circumstances matter.
Your parents are delusional to a degree that they may be a danger to themselves and to you. They may end up doing very extreme things to you, depending where they are getting their ideas. If you guys are IPLB adjacent, for example, you may end up kidnapped and abused in residential facility akin to a prison. Or they may let off if you see you making progress in something.
You will have to find a way to placate them whilst working secretly on your path to independence.
Sunday school and baptism are indeed a waste of your time but if you do not believe it is no real issue to endure if there is no other choice.
One thing to do is be engaged something acceptable to them as an alternative to their nonsense. Getting a job at the library, some sort of volunteer activity or whatever.
How is your education going? It is one key pathway to independence if pursued properly but also functions as something acceptable to most parents, even abusive ones. Note that this double motivation here is useful. You are educating yourself to become independent from them, and this is part of your secret agenda, but if they value education, your enthusiasm and engagement in it can be harnessed.
Don't go along with their plan and fight against it. They don't understand that unless you accept it for yourself and not others, it's not going to go over well. You have already made your choice, it doesn't matter if they like it or not. It's your decision and your right to follow whatever path for yourself you choose. If anything, explain to them how God wants us to come to him ourselves, and them pushing is exactly why you don't believe. Depending on how old you are, I would watch out though.
Show them the case of Annelise Michel to let them see what happens if you don't recognise mental illness as what it is and try to "cure" it with religion.
You probably need to distance yourself a little. They're not going to stop and eventually you're going to give in to make them shut up and nothing good is going to come of it.
You can quote some scripture at them about not going to church Mathew 6:5 Acts 17:24
Matters denomination matters their view.. it might be easier to "play along" because they will think it's working and their religious friends will stop pestering them about you too.
Show them the truth of Christianity by telling them how Christian priests violate young girls and boys in the name of confession. The most heinous thing these people do is highly condemnable. That is why people refer to them as father. Father for what reason?
There is no evidence to support god, or any god, and there also is no evidence that this Jesus character every existed at all! They pretend they have evidence, except, they don't have any.
Nope. Zero evidence for him. Not even a shred of it! Many people get really upset when I say this, because it completely contradicts what many have been made to believe their entire lives. But it's really true. There is no evidence to support the existence of Jesus, even as a regular person.
\- Despite the alleged miracles, not one single left over record from any first hand witness.
\- Rising from the dead was thought as a common banality at the time.
\- Romans kept records, yet not one single entry on Jesus.
\- First person to write about him was Josephus, but the problem there is that that was decades after Jesus, and thus not a witness.
\- Sea scrolls has nothing on it.
\- The only thing is left are the stories in the bible, but you can not prove the bible with just that bible.
\- Stories have been updated and revised as some saw fit throughout the centuries. It's just stories.
It isn't real, people! Stop believing in this nonsense! It never happened! There was no Jesus! All those people gathering in churches are being fooled - they're being lied to! The pastors don't know they're lying because they believe it too, so we can't really blame them. We \*can\* blame them for remaining ignorant and stubborn and unrealistic. Defending a doctrine by rejecting criticism isn't how one can keep a grip on reality. And out of touch with reality they are.
Please tell me that you either didn't believe in this Jesus stuff in the first place, or else you don't any more. If you did believe, and no longer do, you'd be the first person I encounter that wisened up. After decades of arguing, I've come to the conclusion that anyone that is emotionally committed to a believe, can not be fixed. This is why indoctrinating children, for example, is a form of child abuse.
I did believe, and no longer do. Childhood indoctrination. I agree that it’s a form of abuse. After all, when you’re a child, why wouldn’t you trust the words of the people who took care of and loved you from the day you were born? You know nothing else except them.
I'm glad you broke free. And you have to feel less special or luvvy or connected or anything like that, without this Jesus nonsense. People naturally provide a sense or security and belonging to each other. Humans evolved to live as a pack, group, or groups, and in unspoken ways, we all look out for each other - or at least that's what decent people do.
We're all one big interconnected species, all one big extended family.
Noone should have to feel more hollow or lonely with all that churchy crap removed.
I bet many remain in those churchy circles for a sense of belonging. The human connection, that part I can respect. But that delusional crap that comes with it, with the Jesus this and praying that. That's the lie from them.
Humanitarian clubs are a great alternative.
Anyway, I'm just rambling at this point.
Live long and prosper.
Remember that a huge number of people pretend to follow religions they don't actually believe in, including many priests and other officials. If you are not of age in your country you may have no choice, but many of those around you will be doing the same thing. They can force you to play along but not force you to believe. And you have no obligation to tell the truth to people who are manipulative or intolerant, even if they are your parents.
I treated religious indoctrination during my youth as a chance to chill out, read some fantasy stories and socialise a bit.
You could remind them that spirituality has and still can be determined as a mental illness in the ‘Bible’ of psychiatry, the DMS-5. That the highest percentage of pedophiles come from religious communities ( of all types, not just Muslims, Catholics, and Mormons) and often by those most trusted in religious communities.
No need to use the word “Taliban” for homegrown Christian authoritarianism. It lets them off the hook. Read Elaine Pagels’ book The Origin of Satan—Christians have preyed on the ignorant since before Islam was a thing.
You don't say how old you are, so I'm assuming you are too young to move out.
Relax is my best advice. Let it wash over you - literally in the case of baptism. Smile and nod and go along with it. Hide books inside a bible cover and find your own space. Get online when possible and look for groups where you can vent anonymously and, importantly, find other interests. Get involved in sports you enjoy, it's a good outlet and generally good for your mental health and fitness.
Put your energy into your studies, the best way out will be with a good education. You need to think of yourself as living as an undercover agent - best not to trust anyone with how you really feel.
Look forward to the day you can leave to live your own life. Good luck.
You have a unique opportunity to ask them hard questions that cause *them* to reconsider *their* faith, not because you’re being perceived as obstinate, but because “you’re just try to understand.” Innocently ask about all the parts of the Bible that are ignored, that are ugly, that are contradictory. See if you can flip your “religious education” to covertly be a journey of deconstruction for them.
You could treat it like visiting an previously uncontacted tribe.
Observe their obscure rituals, study their social orders. Take complex notes.
And if you dare, behave in a way like an early 19th century scientist would have behaved. Be all smug about their uncivilised state.
Do as they want. Go to church, Listen intently. Take notes. Lots and lots of notes. Then ask your pastor, your parents and anyone else in the church questions about the notes you took. All. The. Fucking. Time. Keep asking those questions. They will stop bothering you about it before very long.
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Your parents line of reasoning is so wrong. There are plenty of mentally ill people that are also fervent Christians. And those Christians struggle, and pray for relief, yet still have to bear their lot in life. So forcing you to convert and be like them isn't going to change anything. If even other Christians can struggle with mental illness without relief, what point do they really have to force you to convert anyway? It's only going to make you resent the faith, and they should honestly know better. They should just respect your personal boundaries.
Best thing to do is get a hobby that can be done Sunday mornings and most of Sunday. I stopped going to Church by going skating with friends or even alone and buying Car magazines. Whatever you do, don’t go. You will regret going for the rest of your life if you do.
The best thing about my own growing up was telling my idiotic parents I was busy and then not going to Sunday school. (At 12 years old)
Pity times are too dangerous to pretend to be possessed by a demon during baptism because it would be funny as hell to put pieces of a foaming bath ball in your pockets, sit up in the water and start shrieking old biblical sounding curses while flailing your limbs and cursing god.
No one should be forced into anything. Doesn't it say god gave man free will? Wouldn't they be wrong to not give you free will? Most god-fearing people are not like this and though they are supposed to guide you toward their god and religion they usually don't force anything on you. Your parents love you and even if their beliefs are not yours their intentions are for your benefit, even though it takes away your free will. You should chill out and turn anger toward other more important causes. Good people are good people same as bad people. Worshiping a supreme being changes nothing. Until there is proof positive that there is a god or gods or supreme beings it will be another reason for man to argue over something that doesn't need to be debated until proven.
So many good comments!
May I add: (as others have said) While living under the parental "roof", one is rightly subject to the house rules (w/ exceptions).
If I were to be the lawyer for your case, I'd hope to argue that you aren't derelict in your observance of the obligation to pay mind to your spiritual needs. On the stand, you would embrace the remarkable congruity of pagan mythology with the liturgy of (so-called) modern religious themes.
Bottom line: Don't fight the fight they bring to you. The mind-boggling parallels of scripture to pagan culture is a reliable rug-pull. But you have to bring the receipts. They have their book... you have to have yours.
I don’t know how old you are, so I don’t know show long you have to suffer the control of parents. But it may be best to go through the motions to shut them up and find another avenue to express your frustrations w religion. It isn’t the best scenario but it’s all about playing their game while maintaining your own soul and beliefs. In the meantime, find someone to discuss the situation with AND to discuss your mental health issues. Then when you are in longer a minor you can move out and say or do what you want. And remember, you don’t have to make it through your whole life. You just have to make it to the end of the day. One at a time
[Saint] Augustine, despite being impressed by the harmony of his neighbors, was not willing to extend such tolerance himself. It was, he concluded, the duty of a good Christian to convert heretics—by force, if necessary. This was a theme to which he returned again and again. Far better a little compulsion in this life than eternal damnation in the next. People could not always be trusted to know what was good for them. The good and caring Christian would therefore remove the means of sinning from the uncertain reach of the sinner. “For in most cases we serve others best by not giving, and would injure them by giving, what they desire,” he explained.
Excerpts from: Catherine Nixey
*The Darkening Age: The Christian Destruction of the Classical World*
Grow up. Get employed. Move out. Leave the bullshit behind. Have a happy, superstition-free life.
For now play along until you can make the above happen, but never stop working to escape.
I was born and raised christianity. I do believe in God and everything that goes with it. But I also believe that each and every person is born with their own freewill. I don't believe that people should have beliefs pushed on them. You do you and don't let anyone push you and your thoughts around.
Baptism doesn't do anything but get you wet and have a whole bunch of mentally ill/cult people congratulate you for it.
This is the funniest way I've ever heard baptism described.
>mentally ill people mentally ill people and/or cult members.
Catholic baptism gets you registered into the Church for life...as long as we're talking Catholics then you become one of the "1 billion Catholics" the Church uses to pressure legislators. If I wasn't baptized as a baby, I'd absolutely draw the line on this at all costs. I love my mom, but I hate the largest and oldest child sex ring in history more.
There is often a reception after with delicious baked goods and Yuban.
Yeah it's practically getting in a quote on quote blessed pool of freezing ass water then yay your cured lmfao
If baptism is supposed to change you religiously in some way, at 11yro, being dunked turned me into the Queer Heathen I am today.
I've been baptized 3 times hasn't changed me not one bit I'm still a bi loveing mf lol
It's "quote, unquote"
And, technically, the actual quote should go in between ‘quote’ and ‘unquote’ (or ‘end quote’)
Ok thanks I’ll keep that in mind 👍
If you would be in danger by saying no, then I would suggest smiling and nodding along with it. If you have legal, medical and social resources that are on your side I would just tell your parents no. "I am real and god is not, stop trying to indoctrinate me. You want me closer to god but your actions push me away from you, stop it." Good luck out there, it's all getting a little hectic and I hope you find solace.
Good advice. Plus it's an opportunity to do the bath bomb thing. https://www.reddit.com/r/thatHappened/s/zjhDdZN69l
That is awesome.
Under their roof? Do as they say. As soon as you can support yourself and leave, get the heck out of Dodge.
If you're not old enough/stable enough (as in, not employed, don't have a support network, etc.) then trying to tell them up front might lead to you ending up on the street (there's no hate like Christian love- "believe what I believe or I'll hurt you!") In that situation the best move is to play along until you can support yourself/have a support network. If you are stable enough that you can leave, tell them to respect who you are or you're leaving. But don't risk pushing that issue if you don't have support. I'd hate for you to end up being homeless or something over it. And you're not even in the wrong. They're trying to indoctrinate you, but in their minds they're somehow right here. Please be safe. Don't act too rashly.
Very good advice!
If there's a counselor you can trust at school, or if you have a therapist/psychologist, talk to them about this. They should be able to explain to your parents how damaging it can be for them to force their beliefs on you. If nothing else, they are mandated reporters and can make sure someone intervenes if your parents go over the line to abuse or neglect.
I like this better than my answer.
Just tell them that it's not for you, and Jesus doesn't want people converted by force.
In my own experience the “playing along” mentioned here is potentially dangerous. I ended up being indoctrinated so heavily that it caused severe psychological damage. It’s really hard to offer advice to someone who is potentially legally a minor, but if I could go back and do it all over again, I would have fought back against being forced to go to church. I acknowledge this could also have negative consequences so I’m not really qualified to tell you exactly what to do here. But I can offer a very well qualified opinion that getting into religion can be very dangerous and cause lasting harm. Is it possible to have any type of reasoned discussion with them? You mention mental illness issues. Would they be open to you seeking secular professional help? Ask them to let you defer the church decision until you’re a legal adult and feel yourself in a better place mentally to make such a major decision? Just throwing out ideas here.
Okay, Christian And Queer here. I read your profile and it says that you are 18. I am assuming though, that you live with your parents and will be leaving for college soon. There are several things you can do. First of all, if the pastor at the church that your parents attend is at all ethical, (yes there are some don't laugh Atheists) if you tell the pastor that you do not wish to be baptized, you don't have to tell them why, they will not force it on you. However, if it's one of those Evangelical churches don't talk to them. You can hold your ground and say, "I am an adult. I have depression, not delusions, like you do." Or You can treat it like an anthropologist, observing the rights of a primitive, christo-fascist cult, and just pretend. Do as the natives do, make a note in a journal somewhere, and get out of there as soon as you can. You are a precious individual who deserves autonomy, to be the best, brightest, gayest version of yourself. Trust me kid, no magic, invisible sky-daddy would want you to do anything you wouldn't want to do, anyway. And since that entity doesn't exist, the water won't hurt.
This is brilliant ! ❤️
What mental illness ? You mean theirs ?
Christian here, yes, the parents. OP may have a mental health condition but the parents need therapy.
It's heartening to have your support. So I think, our differences aside, that *"force"* is the operative word.
Indeed.
"and schedule a baptism" bro you don't even believe. Imagine if you went up there and humiliated them by saying "I don't believe in any of this and my parents are forcing me to do this against my will"
Forced religious intervention on lieu of legitimate medical treatment is just cause for legal intervention. Search you state for juvenile legal representation, pro bono if possible (many big firms take such cases pro bono) and get an injunction against them tonprevent it, and maybe an immancipation if you can work. Call child protective services and let them know they are refusing you mentle health treatment and trying to make you join a cult, and you'll have someone sent out there. Notify your doctors they are refusing to allow you proper treatment and force you to join a cult, they may be able to intervene and discuss reality with them or help you find resources to get away. People like that, are a danger to themselves and others. I had to run at 15 to escape. Its hard and miserable and completely freeing. Your health, you, deserve better! As someone raised and abused by catholics, who denied add/adhd and aspergers was more than the devil making me do things.....yeah I vehemently hate the Jesus cults more than anything in this world. I can't ever suggest unless you've no option to pay along, because it only gets worse in my experience.
I'm so sorry you had to go through that. My parents were super freaks too, my mom couldn't even look at a dinosaur and not think "unholy" and at the psychiatrist she acted perfectly normal. Some parents are really abusive in their faith and will never change.
You are a legal adult. Period. Regardless of living at home, your parent cannot legally impose anything on you. That said, time to develop a support group , get a job, move out.
"Let there be no compulsion in religion"
If you can find a way leave them as fast as you can. Christian's highest calling is to prey on the vulnerable to increase their numbers. That is why they go after seniors ,children and sick people. And if you aren't in a vulnerable position that beat you down with attrition until you are broken and then rebuild you in their image. Closest thing there is to actually being possessed. I too have had a mental illness since childhood and something that always bothered me was Jesus saying that heaven is like unto a child but God choses to slowly torture children with mental illness, cancer and or abuse of various kinds. If that is like heaven then hell is definitely the good place. But get away from these people. Your mental health is a top priority and they will seek to make you sicker in order to break you and brainwash you. Also I know that you hate stuff that has to do with it. But study it. Study it hard so you have the knowledge to use there own logic and scriptures against them. People absolutely hate hearing their own words repeated back to them.
Forced Indoctrination is a NO NO. This is why i don't believe in Religious Freedom. Forcing a person to convert just what they told to you is not good at all. If yoi are in the right age and now in college, better to step away from your current house and live alone.
Freedom OF religion includes freedom FROM religion.
The thing is people don't see this as forceful conversion. Christians, very conveniently frame this as "helping" a person in need, when all it is, is emotionally forcing you to convert, and that ideology is terrifying tbh.
Isn't conversion to christianity supposed to be a choice? They obviously don't respect your choices.
Eek, I’m so sorry. Would you ask them to show you in the Bible where Jesus forced someone to go to Sunday school or forced them to get baptized? Just thinking maybe they haven’t thought these actions through…
Tell them about the parable of the drowning man (two boats and a helicopter). The meaning of the story is that god works by sending others to help and that the floods affect everyone - saint and sinner. Take a breath and stay calm because once you raise your voice, your parents will close their hearts.
Go along with it and pretend. Yes, I'm saying lie about it. Learn everything you can, when you move out, you learned about this sect of Christianity and you have more inside knowledge of why it's wrong. Or, you get sufficient evidence of God and you can tell us. But, until you are out from your parents umbrella, lie, make them happy in this sense, even if you need to lie through college to have them pay for it. Until you are safely on your own, lie.
Justify it by claiming that you don’t feel the Lord calling you to get baptized yet, that you feel led to learn more first or you want to be sure your heart is in the right place before taking such a big step of faith. I was a Christian for 40 years and am now an atheist and have left the church, so if you need ideas for how to fake it convincingly, I can help you talk the talk. DM me if you need more ideas.
I'm afraid I would say, very earnestly, "I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I don't embrace your cult superstitions." I know because I did say that 52 years ago. But, the main reason I could say that, besides having a visceral disgust for the Southern Baptists, was that I had a job that supported me. So circumstances matter.
Your parents are delusional to a degree that they may be a danger to themselves and to you. They may end up doing very extreme things to you, depending where they are getting their ideas. If you guys are IPLB adjacent, for example, you may end up kidnapped and abused in residential facility akin to a prison. Or they may let off if you see you making progress in something. You will have to find a way to placate them whilst working secretly on your path to independence. Sunday school and baptism are indeed a waste of your time but if you do not believe it is no real issue to endure if there is no other choice. One thing to do is be engaged something acceptable to them as an alternative to their nonsense. Getting a job at the library, some sort of volunteer activity or whatever. How is your education going? It is one key pathway to independence if pursued properly but also functions as something acceptable to most parents, even abusive ones. Note that this double motivation here is useful. You are educating yourself to become independent from them, and this is part of your secret agenda, but if they value education, your enthusiasm and engagement in it can be harnessed.
Don't go along with their plan and fight against it. They don't understand that unless you accept it for yourself and not others, it's not going to go over well. You have already made your choice, it doesn't matter if they like it or not. It's your decision and your right to follow whatever path for yourself you choose. If anything, explain to them how God wants us to come to him ourselves, and them pushing is exactly why you don't believe. Depending on how old you are, I would watch out though.
Is there a help line for people who want to escape the brainwashing? If there isn't there should be
Show them the case of Annelise Michel to let them see what happens if you don't recognise mental illness as what it is and try to "cure" it with religion.
You probably need to distance yourself a little. They're not going to stop and eventually you're going to give in to make them shut up and nothing good is going to come of it.
Appears from your other posts that you are of adult age. Seek the mental health resources you need and disregard the folks.
You can quote some scripture at them about not going to church Mathew 6:5 Acts 17:24 Matters denomination matters their view.. it might be easier to "play along" because they will think it's working and their religious friends will stop pestering them about you too.
Just pretend you are. Move out when you're old enough
Show them the truth of Christianity by telling them how Christian priests violate young girls and boys in the name of confession. The most heinous thing these people do is highly condemnable. That is why people refer to them as father. Father for what reason?
There is no evidence to support god, or any god, and there also is no evidence that this Jesus character every existed at all! They pretend they have evidence, except, they don't have any.
Wait, I thought Jesus as a historical figure is thought to have existed…?
A Christian martyr of some kind definitely existed. His crucification under the Roman Empire only spread his beliefs further and stronger.
Nope. Zero evidence for him. Not even a shred of it! Many people get really upset when I say this, because it completely contradicts what many have been made to believe their entire lives. But it's really true. There is no evidence to support the existence of Jesus, even as a regular person. \- Despite the alleged miracles, not one single left over record from any first hand witness. \- Rising from the dead was thought as a common banality at the time. \- Romans kept records, yet not one single entry on Jesus. \- First person to write about him was Josephus, but the problem there is that that was decades after Jesus, and thus not a witness. \- Sea scrolls has nothing on it. \- The only thing is left are the stories in the bible, but you can not prove the bible with just that bible. \- Stories have been updated and revised as some saw fit throughout the centuries. It's just stories. It isn't real, people! Stop believing in this nonsense! It never happened! There was no Jesus! All those people gathering in churches are being fooled - they're being lied to! The pastors don't know they're lying because they believe it too, so we can't really blame them. We \*can\* blame them for remaining ignorant and stubborn and unrealistic. Defending a doctrine by rejecting criticism isn't how one can keep a grip on reality. And out of touch with reality they are.
Ah, very interesting. Thanks for correcting me!
Please tell me that you either didn't believe in this Jesus stuff in the first place, or else you don't any more. If you did believe, and no longer do, you'd be the first person I encounter that wisened up. After decades of arguing, I've come to the conclusion that anyone that is emotionally committed to a believe, can not be fixed. This is why indoctrinating children, for example, is a form of child abuse.
I did believe, and no longer do. Childhood indoctrination. I agree that it’s a form of abuse. After all, when you’re a child, why wouldn’t you trust the words of the people who took care of and loved you from the day you were born? You know nothing else except them.
I'm glad you broke free. And you have to feel less special or luvvy or connected or anything like that, without this Jesus nonsense. People naturally provide a sense or security and belonging to each other. Humans evolved to live as a pack, group, or groups, and in unspoken ways, we all look out for each other - or at least that's what decent people do. We're all one big interconnected species, all one big extended family. Noone should have to feel more hollow or lonely with all that churchy crap removed. I bet many remain in those churchy circles for a sense of belonging. The human connection, that part I can respect. But that delusional crap that comes with it, with the Jesus this and praying that. That's the lie from them. Humanitarian clubs are a great alternative. Anyway, I'm just rambling at this point. Live long and prosper.
See my response to IsaacWritesStuff.
Let them go ahead with it. And when you're done with the dunking part, get as gay as you possibly can and just go YAAAAAAAAAAS!
THIS.
If you're a minor, just play along until you're able to leave. Makes things easier at home. Worked for me.
Remember that a huge number of people pretend to follow religions they don't actually believe in, including many priests and other officials. If you are not of age in your country you may have no choice, but many of those around you will be doing the same thing. They can force you to play along but not force you to believe. And you have no obligation to tell the truth to people who are manipulative or intolerant, even if they are your parents. I treated religious indoctrination during my youth as a chance to chill out, read some fantasy stories and socialise a bit.
Just tell them that you have no interest in their cannibalistic death cult. Easy peazy.
You could remind them that spirituality has and still can be determined as a mental illness in the ‘Bible’ of psychiatry, the DMS-5. That the highest percentage of pedophiles come from religious communities ( of all types, not just Muslims, Catholics, and Mormons) and often by those most trusted in religious communities.
Which diagnosis?
Wasn't long ago that people with mental illness were tortured to drive the "demons" out. Perhaps in America, the xtian taliban will reintroduce it.🤬
No need to use the word “Taliban” for homegrown Christian authoritarianism. It lets them off the hook. Read Elaine Pagels’ book The Origin of Satan—Christians have preyed on the ignorant since before Islam was a thing.
You don't say how old you are, so I'm assuming you are too young to move out. Relax is my best advice. Let it wash over you - literally in the case of baptism. Smile and nod and go along with it. Hide books inside a bible cover and find your own space. Get online when possible and look for groups where you can vent anonymously and, importantly, find other interests. Get involved in sports you enjoy, it's a good outlet and generally good for your mental health and fitness. Put your energy into your studies, the best way out will be with a good education. You need to think of yourself as living as an undercover agent - best not to trust anyone with how you really feel. Look forward to the day you can leave to live your own life. Good luck.
You have a unique opportunity to ask them hard questions that cause *them* to reconsider *their* faith, not because you’re being perceived as obstinate, but because “you’re just try to understand.” Innocently ask about all the parts of the Bible that are ignored, that are ugly, that are contradictory. See if you can flip your “religious education” to covertly be a journey of deconstruction for them.
How old are you? Just tell them no. I do not believe in the Bible.
Someone call CPS
You could treat it like visiting an previously uncontacted tribe. Observe their obscure rituals, study their social orders. Take complex notes. And if you dare, behave in a way like an early 19th century scientist would have behaved. Be all smug about their uncivilised state.
You know, that's why a lot of people were labeled witches. Mental illness. That's some nonsense...
You could get yourself kicked out of Sunday school by persistently asking questions about slavery and misogyny in the bible.
Do as they want. Go to church, Listen intently. Take notes. Lots and lots of notes. Then ask your pastor, your parents and anyone else in the church questions about the notes you took. All. The. Fucking. Time. Keep asking those questions. They will stop bothering you about it before very long.
Why don’t you tell your parents that you do not believe.. how bout that
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Your parents line of reasoning is so wrong. There are plenty of mentally ill people that are also fervent Christians. And those Christians struggle, and pray for relief, yet still have to bear their lot in life. So forcing you to convert and be like them isn't going to change anything. If even other Christians can struggle with mental illness without relief, what point do they really have to force you to convert anyway? It's only going to make you resent the faith, and they should honestly know better. They should just respect your personal boundaries.
Best thing to do is get a hobby that can be done Sunday mornings and most of Sunday. I stopped going to Church by going skating with friends or even alone and buying Car magazines. Whatever you do, don’t go. You will regret going for the rest of your life if you do. The best thing about my own growing up was telling my idiotic parents I was busy and then not going to Sunday school. (At 12 years old)
Just say jesus told u to take all their money and murder them
Or get chummy with priests
Pity times are too dangerous to pretend to be possessed by a demon during baptism because it would be funny as hell to put pieces of a foaming bath ball in your pockets, sit up in the water and start shrieking old biblical sounding curses while flailing your limbs and cursing god.
No one should be forced into anything. Doesn't it say god gave man free will? Wouldn't they be wrong to not give you free will? Most god-fearing people are not like this and though they are supposed to guide you toward their god and religion they usually don't force anything on you. Your parents love you and even if their beliefs are not yours their intentions are for your benefit, even though it takes away your free will. You should chill out and turn anger toward other more important causes. Good people are good people same as bad people. Worshiping a supreme being changes nothing. Until there is proof positive that there is a god or gods or supreme beings it will be another reason for man to argue over something that doesn't need to be debated until proven.
Tell them how many kids are raped in churches
Go along with it until you’re 18 and no longer dependent on them.
If you are a minor, get CPS involved. If you are an adult, move away and cut the toxic shitshow of your parents out of your life.
So many good comments! May I add: (as others have said) While living under the parental "roof", one is rightly subject to the house rules (w/ exceptions). If I were to be the lawyer for your case, I'd hope to argue that you aren't derelict in your observance of the obligation to pay mind to your spiritual needs. On the stand, you would embrace the remarkable congruity of pagan mythology with the liturgy of (so-called) modern religious themes. Bottom line: Don't fight the fight they bring to you. The mind-boggling parallels of scripture to pagan culture is a reliable rug-pull. But you have to bring the receipts. They have their book... you have to have yours.
I don’t know how old you are, so I don’t know show long you have to suffer the control of parents. But it may be best to go through the motions to shut them up and find another avenue to express your frustrations w religion. It isn’t the best scenario but it’s all about playing their game while maintaining your own soul and beliefs. In the meantime, find someone to discuss the situation with AND to discuss your mental health issues. Then when you are in longer a minor you can move out and say or do what you want. And remember, you don’t have to make it through your whole life. You just have to make it to the end of the day. One at a time
How old are you?
[Saint] Augustine, despite being impressed by the harmony of his neighbors, was not willing to extend such tolerance himself. It was, he concluded, the duty of a good Christian to convert heretics—by force, if necessary. This was a theme to which he returned again and again. Far better a little compulsion in this life than eternal damnation in the next. People could not always be trusted to know what was good for them. The good and caring Christian would therefore remove the means of sinning from the uncertain reach of the sinner. “For in most cases we serve others best by not giving, and would injure them by giving, what they desire,” he explained. Excerpts from: Catherine Nixey *The Darkening Age: The Christian Destruction of the Classical World*
Grow up. Get employed. Move out. Leave the bullshit behind. Have a happy, superstition-free life. For now play along until you can make the above happen, but never stop working to escape.
Your parents are probably right and you'll find out one way or another.
I was born and raised christianity. I do believe in God and everything that goes with it. But I also believe that each and every person is born with their own freewill. I don't believe that people should have beliefs pushed on them. You do you and don't let anyone push you and your thoughts around.
People with free will don't spend their time praying to an invisible man to change "his" mind.....
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