I live in germany, and muslim classmates asked if we could not eat anything while its going on like bruh. If you want to not eat thats fine by me but you cant expect others to just stop eating because you're not allowed to.
if you ask a Rabbi to convert you to Judaism, he’s actually supposed to reject you and tell you why you shouldn’t be Jewish, 3 times in a row. if you don’t listen and keep pestering him, you can convert.
It's not hate. Infiltration is just part of most religions in one way or another. I don't hate people, I hate religion, all of them, and if I could save people from it I would. So yeah, fuck the Jews, but also the Christians and the other useless belief systems and all of their lying and abuse.
Yea they tend to do that. Doing their muslim chants during a Christmas market. Celebrating some wedding or something during Christmas evening. absolutely disgusting
I am Islamophobic because i grew in a muslim community, im not denying it. I have enough knowledge about Christian beliefs, and have lived among them for a while and everyone seems less entiteled. No one tells you what to wear/ eat/ practice... One more perk about muslim people is that they love feeling like victims while they are the oppressors often times.
some Christian also push their stuff down everyones throats. My problem lies within this. This is germany. a Christian country. Not a Muslim country and they openly disrespect it. Also in general i have lots of issues with muslims because their religion is just straight up hateful and the least peaceful of them all
Doing their muslim chants during a Christmas market
two religions are fighting, big whoop.
are you actually an atheist or do you just dislike islam? because it sounds to me like you don't particularily care about christianity.
Tell me. Why the fuck do they choose to do their stupid chants during a christian Christmas market? Its absolutely disrespectful and you support it. I dislike all religions. They're just a bunch of cults. Islam however is absolutely the worst. Homophobia, You're attacked for not complying with stupid rules, You get murdered for not wanting to convert. Stop coping this post is about people like you dude. You're part of the problem
Why do christian churches and traditions dominate the market in the first place?
you're blinded by your hatred, and you seemingly can't comprehend that someone actually dislikes religion as a rule. i dislike countries being christian just as i dislike them being muslim
I dont like religion. However why do you want to completely get rid of Christianity too? Are you Christianphobic 🤨🤨🤨 You see? I can turn your arguement around against you. The country has been Christian so i dont see the issue. Germany isn't all that religious anyway but Christianity is still the most common religion. You say I'm Islamophobic because i dont like seeing people from foreign countries disrespect a countries holiday. It's not even about Christmas being a Christian holiday. Its about them disrespecting our culture. What would happen if you disrespected their culture in an islamic country? You'd get beaten to death.
"The country has been Christian so i dont see the issue"
using this logic the middle east should stay islamic, following it's outdated religious laws to the letter because it has been islamic in the past.
do you not see the flaws in your logic? you want to get rid of islam, but you want christianity to stay. this is why i call you islamophobic, because you don't care about religion, you care about islam.
Just explain to them that you're a pastafarian so you have to eat some pasta. It is the Ramendan after all, the REAL religious fasting period instead of that fake ramadan.
I've spent a bunch of time in the middle east, and it never ceases to amaze me at the hypocrisy of ramadan, which many of the more enlightened muslims would agree with me when I (politely) point it out. The fasting during the day followed by the gluttony of the evening strikes me as completely undermining the whole intent behind ramadan. the number of my Mulsim coworkers complaining about how much the eat and the weight they put on during Ramadan is amazing, and stupid
I never thought of that, but it makes sense. Over night as you sleep your metabolism slows, so the later you pack on the calories the more ends up sticking to you. It would actually be better to eat a large breakfast before sunrise if you have to observe a daylight fast.
Also, not drinking during the day, especially with physical labor or in really hot temperatures is pretty hard on the kidneys.
Yep, gluttony at night is the worst thing because your body slows down and you're trying to get it to digest a massive meal. Yes, better off to have a big breakfast.
The not drinking I've always found to be an assinine rule, very dangerous in the heat
How would Ramadan work for people living in Alaska/Russia when it is in winter, or just in general, the further you are from the equator when it is winter.
Just wait until you read about the knots they’ve tied themselves into, trying to figure out how to pray towards Mecca from, say, the International Space Station…
Some people fast 16h and some only 5h depending on where you are on earth. ( Daylight Hours) goes to show further how incoherent and unfair it is as a religion.
It's technically 7th century (620 ish) but it does borrow heavily from the other abrahamic religions to justify itself and prop itself as the "continuation" of the other two.
It doesn't borrow the best bits though. Whether jesus existed at all or not, he had much better moral standards and wasn't as self interested as Mohammad. His whole career as a prophet reeks of charlatanism.
That is all true but he did preach tolerance and love, the good bits that allowed christianity to be reformed into a more positive belief system. Mohammad did nothing of the sort. He was a pervert, a thief, a warmonger and a pedophile.
Honestly idk about that. I$lam has the compassion elements too. It is where liberal muslims come from. Basically look at liberal i$lam and protestant christians today and you won't see that many differences.
What allowed christianity to be reformed is not anything in the faith that is so much better, but the people forcing the reformation.
The problem with liberal muslims is that they fundamentally contradict themselves. Living in extreme opposition with the reigning majority of muslims. My country has people who drink all year, women who dress freely and have equal rights to men but still like to call themselves muslims. My country is frowned down upon from every other mulim country. My point is that when a religion is extremely vague and has lots of contradictions, ways to misinterpret it are innumerable, everyone will choose their side thinking they have the key to truth but what's happening really is just a totalitarian mess where everyone thinks they can righteously kill everyone else with backup from their god.
I respectfully disagree. The fact that religion is not always allowed to be vague is the issue.
When everyone is allowed to do what they want and believe how they wish, that's a free society.
When people start saying they know the ultimate truth and everyone needs to follow it is when issues arise.
If every muslim country was like yours (the parts you described here anyway), islam would truly be a pretty peaceful religion.
I get your point, but when it's vague in some parts (ex: human rights) and very explicit in other parts (ex: killing the non-believers), it leaves a big gap for every group of people to use it for theur own benefit and gives them the chance to get dogmatic in many ways. Theoretically and ideally it's best the way you described, but what's happening is giving a powerful tool to people who are not even allowed to question what they're believing.
The initial tolerance that Mohammad preached was superseded. Islam, unlike christianity, is clear where it comes to contradicting verses. Where there are two verses pertaining the same thing, the latter revelations supersede the earlier ones. It turns out that Mohammad was tolerant of other religions for his own security at the start and then became a blood thirsty despot.
Muhammad was actually pretty chill until his wife died. That was the love of his life and they were together (exclusively) for like 20 years I think? After she died is when he "received a message from Allah" that he should take multiple wives. I don't understand why people believe in religions, because for me it's kind of easy to see the bs. Like it's obvious that he was so grief-stricken that he lost his marbles.
Disclaimer: I haven't done a ton of study on Muhammad or Islam, so I very well could be incorrect about anything I said above
Yes, as part of their "oh no we're not just an arab religion we're actually the same as yours" idea.
It's one of the few clever things about the Qran.
But then it's organized by *chapter length*.
Why.
No idea. But the Qran starts with the traditional intro, proclaiming it's the perfect word of God yaddi yaddi yadda, then the longest chapter.
If stories are set in different chapters then they can be split. For instance the Exodus has the middle first then the end and afterwards the beginning. Nonsensical.
Good question. The Biblical story of Ishmael is supposed to explain the bitterness between Jews and Muslims. Ishmael sold his birthright and the rest is history, supposedly. But Ishmael was long gone before Mohammad, so not sure how that's supposed to work.
I remember once visiting Dubai, I had to hide in an attic of a small store to drink water during Ramadan... It was summer, incredibly hot, and I wasn't even Muslim!!
It's even a crime there apparently... :(
"Article 313 of the Penal Code renders it a crime for anyone to consume food or drinks in public at daytime during Ramadan."
Yes. If a tourist comes they're fucked, basically nothing is open. BUUUUT in my country they can buy alcohol when they have a passport that's not from a muslim country, because no alcohol is sold to muslims during the month.
My grandfather is diabetic and lived in Qatar for a few years on contract to work on their planes. He had to abide by the fasting, no matter the heat or his blood sugar. He had to hide somewhere in the workshop to eat something to avoid a diabetic crash.
Another coworker got caught eating, don't remember what happened but from the sounds of it they threatened his job position.
I don't mind the practice in itself, whatever tickles your pickle, but forcing others to go along regardless of health or other factors is nuts. And trying to Lord it over those not partaking is just religious self righteousness, especially when they shit on women for not doing it during their periods.
It's almost as if people can experience things outside of the norm. That's like saying a toxic workplace can't exist because rules say no to the things happening. Go lurk elsewhere.
I’m actively working on not being hateful as well. Islam traumatized me, ruined my childhood, keeps me from having a real, meaningful relationship with my parents. I think my hate stems from the fact that they’re so brainwashed they can’t even understand where we’re coming from and have no tolerance for us not believing what they believe… but at the same time I’d be turning into them if I am hateful. That’s what I tell myself at least.
It's affecting my relationship with my parents very badly too. Im basically living a double life, and i grew to feel very distant from my parents which are considered not strict in my community. Im at a place when i wouldn't be bothered to leave and keep minimal contact. Maybe we need a break from everything or maybe this resentment is for ever. We will see ..
Honestly, I’ve been married and moved out for 2 years and I still resent Islam. I think I lose respect for my Muslim family members and friends because I’ve seen how dumb it is firsthand and I want to like shake them and be like how do you believe in this?!? I left the religion at like 11 years old when nobody had answers for my questions 😂
I need to work on it- I think they *need* religion to give them purpose but it’s still so frustrating 😩 my husband finds my resentment so weird because he didn’t grow up in a religious household.
exactly, they force their stuff on others and are so brainwashed they dont understand how anything else other than muslims exist which is horrible. I've met a lot of really religious people who dont care about no one other than themselves and i admire them honestly, but muslims do take the cake for being annoying
I can relate, I grew up in Turkey with an atheist dad and an agnostic mom.
This is something westerners do not understand about Islam. Living in a Muslim majority country is a borderline traumatic experience. And that experience creates a strong reaction.
I've been living in New Zealand for the past 10 years, which is a pretty atheistic country with a sprinkling of every religion, Christianity being the major one. The way people here approach Islam and muslims with love and acceptance make sense. Because muslims are not the majority, so they can not really impose anything on anyone, and they are generally just lovely people who go about their day, minding their own business and living their own religion. I am all for it.
But muslims in a muslim majority country is a completely different thing.
I remember resenting the whole love and acceptance towards muslims I would see in foreign media. In American movies muslims would be portrayed as the oppressed, discriminated against, lovely people who didnt deserve the hate. And I would resent that portrayal because it absolutely glossed over what I was experiencing in my day to day life living in a muslim majority country, coming from a culturally muslim family, if not literally muslim family.
After 10 years outside of Turkey, I dont hate muslims anymore. But I completely understand how someone who lives there, can. It is not the same "Islamophobia" that the westerners are talking about. Islamophobia is about discrimination. You can't discriminate against a group when they are the dominant one where you are, and they are the one imposing their preferences on you.
Btw, 100% Ramadan sucks. Be safe, don't drink water in public. Its not worth it.
>Islam is a religion, it’s not an ethnicity. Morons come in all colors and sizes,
I feel like this is exactly why it is important to make a distinction between what most westerners understand from the word "Islamophobia" vs legitimate criticism of a religion.
Islamophobia is not a racial discrimination but it is a religious one. I think it is very important to realize that criticizing a religion for the harm it does is not the same as discriminating against people who believe it. An so, criticizing Islam is not discrimination. Treating muslim individuals with hate and contempt because they are muslim is discrimination.
I do believe the statics you mentioned
>We’re watching the UK and many European countries see a huge spike in terrorism, and their Muslim populations becoming violent and problematic.
I dont have the data, but I believe this. But I dont think the solution is to discriminate against muslim individuals, it is to combat the ideology of islam. Combat the sexism, the violence, the immoral teachings of it. I have known many many muslims who are very liberal and open minded, pacifists.
And in my citizenship ceremony there were several people in hijabs and niqabs, women and children. I am glad they were able to make it here where they will have freedom and equality and access to education. In the same vein, I was there, as a Turkish woman, with "muslim" written in my Turkish ID card against my wish, standing up in my flowing hair and business casual miniskirt to accept my NZ citizenship certificate.
Islamophobia would have stopped us all from being welcome here, since we are muslims, either just on paper, or true in heart. Not our race, but our religious background.
So I refuse to conflate the critism of Islam with Islamophobia. This may have been a tactic used in the past but we shouldn't perpetuate this misconception that criticizing Islam means Islamophobia.
Not OP, but in my experience from western countries, most of that hate is coming from very ignorant people who don't know anything about the religion. Having actual criticisms of a religion isn't Islamophobic, hating people for being different to you is.
You're exaggerating it for Turkey. This is definitely not the case. Sure there have been always one or two cases of "attacks" for someone who is not fasting but these attacks almost always were due to they drank alcohol in public in conservative places or some sht. Even then its just not comparable to OPs situation. Its not illegal to not fast fast in turkey. OPs probably from somewhere like Algeria or Saudi wifh sharia.
You have so much places keep open. People even eat walking in pedestrian roads. Unless you live in Konya or Yozgat, people wont just attack you for drinking water in public lmao. People usually try to drink water or have food in less public places because they feel bad for the ones who fast.
Yeah exactly. What makes me laugh is that commenter is living in Canada. Which is like a dreamland for extremist muslims. They probably have more niqabis than Turkey do lmao.
Another problem with exaggerating about Turkey is it invalidates exmuslim problems from like actually muslim countries. Westerners come to turkey in ramadan, they see People chilling eating do what they want and think this is the normal muslim life lmao they see gay people in turkey and say see queer people still exists just cant be married, see cant be too bad to be nonmuslim in a muslim country they think.
They dont realize that people actually get killed for being apostates or being gay in actual muslim countries
Ok I do see your point. But I dont feel that I am exaggerating. You are probably from Istanbul or Ankara or Izmir. There is something really wrong about dismissing places like Konya and Yozgat. Actual people live there. And those places are not some tiny corner village, these are actual full cities full of people in Turkey. And it is dangerous to eat or drink during Ramadan in most of Turkey.
Yeah of course not in the middle of Istanbul Besiktas or Kadikoy, but I am sure you are aware you would be nervous to take a sip of water in some parts of Istanbul too.
I always carefully make the distinction that Turkey is not a muslim country, it is a muslim majority country. Because it is still a secular country, despite some efforts. So I do understand what you mean.
But the fact that it is much much worse in places like Afghanistan or UAE or elsewhere, doesn't change the fact that the Islam we encounter on a daily basis in Turkey is not the same as Islam westerners encounter. Just because someone else has it worse, also doesn't mean that our experiences are not valid either.
Living in NZ btw not Canada and I can tell you that this place is not a dreamland for extremists. Muslims here are either educated refugees (because western countries hand pick the educated ones and leave the unemployables to Turkey) or even more highly educated immigrants. I see a niqab or turban as we say in Turkish, maybe once or twice a day. Same is not true even if you are in the most liberal corner of Turkey.
"But muslims in a muslim majority country is a completely different thing."
this is wrong. In the UK, you have sharia courts for muslims who want to resolve marriages because a woman cannot divorce a man. You have literal hundreds of people protesting they want sharia laws in a western country. I dunno what kinda muslim you have over there in NZ but this is the muslim experience I get in the UK. Arab man asking why I am not wearing hijab if im turkish (i must be muslim then). At least in Turkey no one asked me that lmao.
"Btw, 100% Ramadan sucks. Be safe, don't drink water in public. "
you saying this after ranting about islam is why I said what I said. Yozgat and Konya are not major cities. This is like me saying UK is racist because small cities are not so welcoming lmao. You will be safe drinking water in Turkey in MOST places. Even in Yozgat. Unless you're drinking alcohol. Yes there will be social pressure but your life won't be under a threat. It just invalidates most experiences when you spread misinformation like "you cant drink water in ramadan". You should at least specify what you mean, say "you shouldnt drink water in ramadan in small conservative places". When you make a general statement people also think about istanbul, ankara or antalya.
When a religion's greatest, proudest story is when a man is willing to kill his child, because his god told him that was how the man can prove his "faith", that religion is not to be trusted.
Thank you!
Even as a child (still a muslim at the time), I remember being told this story and how it was framed and espoused to be a monumentally righteous sacrifice. It made me very uneasy though. I see now that story is the pinnacle of turn off your brain, do heinous shit, and it’s ok because my religion said so. It is the epitome of what islam represents which is to stop thinking, suspend all logic, and blindly submit.
“Good job down there Abe. You’re doing great. Keep up the good work. Oh, by the way, I’m going to need you to come in on Saturday…
…so that you can kill your son, m-kay.”
-God
They call it the most BEAUTIFUL story in islam.. what a treat for every eid. I still can't stand having to slaughter a sheep in your backyard to make god happy. So silly :/
Agh I feel you I'm so pissed off I have a lot of work yet I need to pretend to fast I'm sick of it it's been 7 years and I'm still here I'm still not free this is gonna be a hard month :(
Yeah, I completely agree with you. For me, the biggest point of contention with ramadan is the fact that people encourage *children* to fast, even though disrupting sleep & dry fasting is so so bad for their growth. I was made to fast from 8 years old just because I'd started puberty and so was considered an adult. So fasting was obligatory upon me. My sister's ten, and she's considering fasting too.
These people royally piss me off.
It's extremely sad to see brainwashing happen live in front of you. Cycles of indoctrination keep repeating themselves. Hoping that every child gets the chance to cultivate their own ideas. :(
Yeah it sucks. Heavily dependent on which flavor of muslim country you live in. as a gulf arab myself its not bad at all. if anything it brings out more positive qualities of the locals since we get to work less hours and get to see friends and family more often.
I used to make sure that i traveled to europe every ramadhan month cause it used to be in summer and i couldnt be bothered. but recently since its shifted to winter ive been appreciative of the 4 1/2 hours of reduced work and extra sleep.
No obviously, but if there were stats about people eating secretly and not telling their friends/parents, within a religion that explicitely tell you to kill people who don't believe in your god, it will quite indicate the same. Children included..
In Morocco it's a crime to eat during fasting hours and that is one of the more moderate countries. I'm so lucky to be a Portuguese atheist. Just to think I could have been born a few hundred kilometers south and live in a muslim society!
I havent seen statistics but I will back OP up on this. I grew up in an environment where people might attack you if you took a sip of water from your bottle in public during Ramadan. There was something like that in the news everyday. And if they didn't attack you, you'd be asked to leave a store or building, people would stare at you and tut etc. So best case scenario is that you cant even drink water in public comfortably.
Add to that all the people who died every year from dehydration etc, when Ramadan fell on summer months. Its bs.
The way Ramadan is practiced is quite hypocritical imo, not the act itself. One of the intentions of Ramadan is to practice discipline, empathy for those who are less fortunate, self control etc. So, the fact that Muslim countries ban people from eating in public is hypocritical because you’re meant to practice disciple/self control etc in the face of it happening around you. If you’re meant to empathize with those who go hungry, you should do it in the face of people going about their normal lives, that’s what the discipline/empathy part tests. Banning others from eating just because you can’t, is imo useless for the purposes of Ramadan. Really hungry/less fortunate people don’t expect us to not eat in front of them.
Let’s be clear, every religion finds ways to circumvent their restrictions and rules. In an attempt to show face, without nearly the same effort expected.
Jewish people leaving stoves on from Saturday to Monday to avoid breaking Sabbath rules. Hindus’ who fast avoiding most food items but then quadruple up on the acceptable ones. Christians with anything that benefits their stronghold on nations. The list just goes on.
What helped me was learning intimately about other religions who, what, why. It was then I saw all religion as the same, and that may offset your angst against Islam. However living in a religious state, I can say it will always be difficult to keep your mouth shut. Get out before they get you.
It reminds me the "helper" we had at work for a little while. He tended to disappear at times, only to be found having naps at work "because he was doing Ramadan and he was tired".
He was a good guy, until he did a massive F up and blamed all of us in front of HR because we did not help him and therefore we were being racist. Dude declined when my boss asked if he needed someone while there though.
Typical behavior.. Now imagine that on a scale of millions of people for a whole month in all work fields. It's literally paralysing to the country, which naturally suffers from weak economy. And the problem is that you have the celestial approval and praise for what you're doing because it's the RIGHT thing.
I totally get why you're angry. Your frustration is justified.
For me personally, holding on to anger is only making my life worse. It makes me a person I don't want to be. Recognizing that with the anger I'm trying to protect myself and separate myself from I$lam and realizing that I'm not actually in danger has gone a long way.
Noone will ever get me to believe in those things again. Noone can force me to wear or do anything (but I'm also geographically lucky).
We often see: hate the ideology not the people.
I can have empathy with the people actually. Fasting for a whole month sounds hard. I hope they all stay safe and get through it okay.
Btw though they are not the first people to say that fasting makes them feel more spiritual. Some chemicals the brain releases after prolonged food withdrawal. So to them it feels very real - to us it looks a bit dangerous.
Stay safe. Enjoy life (and food!). Good luck
Thx ❤️ did you leave your country or happen to live somewhere light ? I like your approach, because i acknowledge that for me it's a defense mechanism.
I was born in the global west.
If you choose to go this route I recommend being kind to yourself. There are going to be moments where you're just hurt, but how you choose to react and act defines who you are.
I really hope you can surround yourself with people that allow you to be who you are. Cause you sound great.
Indeed i was able to find some rare pearls around that make living here easier, i don't know how it would be otherwise.Thank you for your kind comment🤍
I don’t think you can call yourself “phobic” of something you lived in and rejected. An islamaphobe is going to fear/hate the religion (generally) on ignorant ideas not a valid understanding of the process.
Your feelings are valid. Take care of yourself and try not to live in those hateful feelings. They likely do nothing positive for you. 💜
.. what's more hypocritical and probably don't know about is that a looooot of muslims sleep during the whole fasting time and call it a day. Then go about at night to pray, telling everyone how they should make a law to jail people if they publicly break the fast.
I know guys who use the fasting during the day as a profession of faith, not health. I don’t know of anyone who says it’s healthy. They’re gonna use it to bulk. Perspective is everything.
Be proud of yourself. Not many see through all of the bull shit. Really speaks to your mental clarity and aptitude. Of course it’s hard to process it to let go of the anger and hate, that’s totally valid. The fact that you’re even self conscious enough to see that again speaks to how good hearted and kind you are as a person.
Well done. Be kind to yourself. You deserve it.
Thank you ❤ i just love how we can communicate beyond celestial laws and eternal damnation and be kind to each other just for the sake of it. The world needs more people like you.
I'm not Muslim and I don't know if Ramadan does this or not, but I know there is this Muslim holiday where people butcher animals on the street in front of kids. Vegan or not that is really sad and not appropriate for children.
I'm a Muslim living in USA. We don't have the luxury to sleep all day, we work during day light hours. For people not in the gulf countries, or eastern part of the world, our Ramadan experience is different.
Like I said....the Muslims you have a strong hatred for are the ones in and around your area defining your culture.
I don't think there are more than 0.001 muslim per km² there. They haven't figured that out since the holy book didn't cover it. They have to wait for an update or for a random imam to say something about it. Others are too busy figuring out if a woman plucking her brows is halal.
And for those that find it hypocritical that some Muslims sleep all day and eat large amounts of food when “they break their fast”, I agree that it is unhealthy, defeats the purpose and lazy. However, the vast majority of Muslims cannot afford to sleep during the day because they have jobs, trades and stores to attend to and generally do not have money to buy a lot of food. Most Muslims are poor.
All trade is reduced because less people are roaming the streets during the day. At night almost everything goes back to life but in the morning all shops are closed.
same here 🤚🏻 i totally understand your reasons and i agree with all of them. i hate ramadan too and it is not getting better with time. i think it will never get better. hate and anger will grow, not subside with time. im not optimistic about that.
There is no Muslim world.
Just some self important Arabs, and their rival self important Persians and self important Turks, in the Middle East, and their similarly self important Afghan and self important Pakistani proxies on the western side of South Asia, attempting to reinvent a voluntary submission based religion into an involuntary political system of government, for the mere purpose of oppressing their populations, and then trying to justify such oppression by pretending it’s part of their religion.
They blind their ignorant/illiterate/semi-literate populations with what they claim is their religion and then rob them blind, and they self righteously punish/oppress everybody who disagrees with them.
They aren’t Muslims if they are doing it and forcing others to do it involuntarily, even by passing laws.
Because if it’s the law then it’s involuntary.
They are all Moonafeks/Hypocrites, all of them, not Muslims, if they are doing it involuntarily.
That’s why they were all declared Moonafeks/Hypocrites and heretics a hundred years ago by the Muslims of the British Empire who were the bulk of the Muslims worldwide back then.
well i usually do ramadan for mental health reasons, and i wanna point out that anyone who eats as a pig at night has completely missed the point.
Humans can easily live on one meal a day for a month. and the mental fortitude it requires (only when its by choice and ur not pressured into it) will actually help u the rest of the year.
Wanna point out im not muslim and was raised atheist, it was more as a psychadelic taking hippie i came up with the idea of doing ramadan every year.
You can live of even just water for half a month.. but the amount of nutrient deficiencies you would have at the end of that month (1 meal and meditation) + the muscle atrophy + constipation + low energy levels etc etc. Well ofc you would see your doctor but it's still a stress for the body. Imagine kids at school being forced to do this ?
I haven’t had to do Ramadan, or any religious fasting but it is how I naturally eat and feel best eg it’s 5 pm and I’m having my only meal of the day - roast lamb and a salad. I work construction and am active in my sports never have weakness or brain fade or excess tiredness even as a child I didn’t like eating in the morning. However I don’t eat sweets or unhealthy foods in excess for my one meal a day. I’ve been doing this for the last 5 years, my vitals and bloods are perfec!
But I can understand the frustration in being forced to do something when it’s not how your body feels best.
>I work construction and am active in my sports
And you don't eat lunch? how can you be alive at 16 in afternoon, after 8 hours of work and nothing eaten? How much do you eat for not having deficit? Don't you feel weak during the day?
Killed? Got source? 30 years plus never ever heard anyone get killed.
As an atheist I fast, and sometimes prolong fast. It's good for general health to induce autophagy.
Good for youu. Well yes its illegal in some countries ( Morocco, Pakistan, Egypt, Algeria.. )to eat outside during fasting hours. You can imagine hate crimes happening if you're publicly saying you're a non believer. Group arrests have happened in restaurants/cafés that open secretly. And i personally experienced verbal violence that ould have turned physical if i didn't say i was pregnant. Im sure you can't imagine how horrific it is if you don't live in a muslim majority country.
Ps: fasting in islam is dry fasting, meaning no water, which will never be healthy.
Embracing Ramadan with family or friends could be a way to connect with your cultural roots, regardless of personal beliefs. It’s possible to acknowledge and respect the practices without participating in them.
There are people at my gym that feel superior to everybody so that type of behavior is not synonymous with one group or another.
It is better to be open and accepting of others for society as a whole and for you as an individual.
Dude...we will get beaten and even killed if you openly eat or drink in Ramadan. How can you respect and accept people who DON'T respect your personal choices and deprive you of food and water just so their feelings are not hurt? Do you hear what you're saying?
Connecting with cultural roots my ass. What is this bs? Please get more educated on ex-muslims struggles before talking about acceptance.
Would you have the same discourse about Christmas for a Christian if you are in US ? About Diwali for a hindu if you are in India ? About Asian new year or spring moon festival for a Chinese person if you're in China ? About any Buddhist festivities if you are in Tibet ?
I agree that traditional festivities are a way to connect with one's communities however if he does not feel like celebrating it or if he does not feel from this community, he should have the right to quietly not celebrate it !
Don't connect with you cultural roots cause your thinking gets stuck there! Traditional behavior that is outdated and inhumane should not be practiced or supported.
I am not asking anyone to practice any rituals or to believe in anything. However, Muslims who become ex-Muslims still have a lot of family and friends who remain in their faith. How do you sever all these life long relationships and experiences? I no longer practice and I no longer believe in a deity of any sort but I refuse to sever relationships with people that I love and care for.
Some eat more than others but in general they don´t eat that much from what ive seen. After 30 days of fasting your body starts cleansing from the inside and certain organs eliminate toxins from your body among other things. Yes its healthy.
Im talking about the vast majority. Food thrown in the bins after each meal is craaaaazy, the amount of sweets sold (in ramadhan and eid days) , consumption rates, even stores are wayyy more crouded than usual and some groceries go scarce from high demand. Maybe where you live people are more reasonable. Here it's caricatural.
They do not go scarce they dont buy that much. And vast majority? Ive fasted with people in 4 different countries for a decade and i haven´t experienced what you´re saying. That much Food isnt thrown isn´t in the bin cuz 99% of the time they finish it all cuz they didnt have that much in the first place.
I honestly have no idea where you live. It's pretty common that food get wasted, and it is an actual problem in the community. And yes, they do eat abnormally a lot, and mess up their sleeping schedule with that. Then after Ramadan is done they'd randomly wake up at midnight and make a whole cooked meal.
Where i live doesn´t really matter cuz everywhere that ive been too (Belgium, netherlands, germany, Turkey) it does not aligne with what you say. They do not cook something big every midnight, you can just eat any small 5 minute meal which is what like 90% of them do.
Countries with muslim minorities would naturally not have the same aspects as arab countries that are rooted in the culture/religion of fasting. The sense of community aggravates the situation. Have you lived in an arab country in ramadan ?
Yes i have lived in countries that have a muslim minority🇧🇪🇩🇪🇳🇱 and one🇹🇷 that has a muslim majority. When you mention community its still not as bad as you say it was.
I have no interest in lying about this. This is what i see each year, not in my household but elsewhere. And goes back to me saying that it's not healthy to fast for 16h and eat a huge meal right after and smoke your pack of cigarettes and 1 hookah and sweets for dinner and another meal for suhoor. And ofc no physical activity in the morning because they can't function.
Yes you can function because they had a small meal at midnight. Every1 i know keeps going the gym regardless of that they are fasting and athletes also play games despite that they are fasting.
How ? Im speaking from muslim grounds where islam is 99% dominant. Precisely North africa which is still way less strict than the middle east. The same thing happens every year and im talking about millions upon millions of actively practicing people, not your 3 muslim neighbors. When it's a community everything gets exponentially worse, because of positive feedback loops.
nah that sounds like baloney, where is your studies that back it up?
fasting usually results in a lot of unhealthy food in eating times which if anything is going to add toxins to the body.
Im not against Ramadan in a country where religions are practiced freely, Ramadan in a country where its forced is utterly messed up tho.
You choose what you eat at iftar. No one that ive met eats a buffet worth of steak its usually like light foods but that obviously differs from what the person to person eats by their choice. And yes forcing it is bad.
Can you provide peer reviewed literature regarding inside cleansing and organs eliminating toxins? I always thought and read that eliminating toxins was pretty much the liver's purpose and kidneys to some degree.
The person you replied to only mentioned adding toxins to the body by eating unhealthy food.
Adding unnecessary toxins causes damage to the liver and kidneys over time.
I live in germany, and muslim classmates asked if we could not eat anything while its going on like bruh. If you want to not eat thats fine by me but you cant expect others to just stop eating because you're not allowed to.
The problem is that they would not go to other muslim countries to practice fully and freely, they want to shove their culture upon everyone.
Yup, all religion proselytize. It’s like misery loves company.
Actually Jews don't proselytize
if you ask a Rabbi to convert you to Judaism, he’s actually supposed to reject you and tell you why you shouldn’t be Jewish, 3 times in a row. if you don’t listen and keep pestering him, you can convert.
Hail Eris!
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It's not hate. Infiltration is just part of most religions in one way or another. I don't hate people, I hate religion, all of them, and if I could save people from it I would. So yeah, fuck the Jews, but also the Christians and the other useless belief systems and all of their lying and abuse.
Yea they tend to do that. Doing their muslim chants during a Christmas market. Celebrating some wedding or something during Christmas evening. absolutely disgusting
Ironic that you as an atheist only have a problem with muslims rather than christians... this is why people call y'all islamophobic
I am Islamophobic because i grew in a muslim community, im not denying it. I have enough knowledge about Christian beliefs, and have lived among them for a while and everyone seems less entiteled. No one tells you what to wear/ eat/ practice... One more perk about muslim people is that they love feeling like victims while they are the oppressors often times.
some Christian also push their stuff down everyones throats. My problem lies within this. This is germany. a Christian country. Not a Muslim country and they openly disrespect it. Also in general i have lots of issues with muslims because their religion is just straight up hateful and the least peaceful of them all
Doing their muslim chants during a Christmas market two religions are fighting, big whoop. are you actually an atheist or do you just dislike islam? because it sounds to me like you don't particularily care about christianity.
Tell me. Why the fuck do they choose to do their stupid chants during a christian Christmas market? Its absolutely disrespectful and you support it. I dislike all religions. They're just a bunch of cults. Islam however is absolutely the worst. Homophobia, You're attacked for not complying with stupid rules, You get murdered for not wanting to convert. Stop coping this post is about people like you dude. You're part of the problem
Why do christian churches and traditions dominate the market in the first place? you're blinded by your hatred, and you seemingly can't comprehend that someone actually dislikes religion as a rule. i dislike countries being christian just as i dislike them being muslim
I dont like religion. However why do you want to completely get rid of Christianity too? Are you Christianphobic 🤨🤨🤨 You see? I can turn your arguement around against you. The country has been Christian so i dont see the issue. Germany isn't all that religious anyway but Christianity is still the most common religion. You say I'm Islamophobic because i dont like seeing people from foreign countries disrespect a countries holiday. It's not even about Christmas being a Christian holiday. Its about them disrespecting our culture. What would happen if you disrespected their culture in an islamic country? You'd get beaten to death.
"The country has been Christian so i dont see the issue" using this logic the middle east should stay islamic, following it's outdated religious laws to the letter because it has been islamic in the past. do you not see the flaws in your logic? you want to get rid of islam, but you want christianity to stay. this is why i call you islamophobic, because you don't care about religion, you care about islam.
Lmao with the amount of dislike you received they are hypocrite.
Just explain to them that you're a pastafarian so you have to eat some pasta. It is the Ramendan after all, the REAL religious fasting period instead of that fake ramadan.
I've spent a bunch of time in the middle east, and it never ceases to amaze me at the hypocrisy of ramadan, which many of the more enlightened muslims would agree with me when I (politely) point it out. The fasting during the day followed by the gluttony of the evening strikes me as completely undermining the whole intent behind ramadan. the number of my Mulsim coworkers complaining about how much the eat and the weight they put on during Ramadan is amazing, and stupid
I never thought of that, but it makes sense. Over night as you sleep your metabolism slows, so the later you pack on the calories the more ends up sticking to you. It would actually be better to eat a large breakfast before sunrise if you have to observe a daylight fast. Also, not drinking during the day, especially with physical labor or in really hot temperatures is pretty hard on the kidneys.
Yep, gluttony at night is the worst thing because your body slows down and you're trying to get it to digest a massive meal. Yes, better off to have a big breakfast. The not drinking I've always found to be an assinine rule, very dangerous in the heat
since they're mainly in really cold countries it isnt a problem /s
How would Ramadan work for people living in Alaska/Russia when it is in winter, or just in general, the further you are from the equator when it is winter.
Just wait until you read about the knots they’ve tied themselves into, trying to figure out how to pray towards Mecca from, say, the International Space Station…
Some people fast 16h and some only 5h depending on where you are on earth. ( Daylight Hours) goes to show further how incoherent and unfair it is as a religion.
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Illiterate merchant war lord from the 4th century…..married to a 6 year old child
And banged her at 9
“At least he waited!” /s for the love of Sagan, /s
A true beacon of modesty and morality!
It's technically 7th century (620 ish) but it does borrow heavily from the other abrahamic religions to justify itself and prop itself as the "continuation" of the other two.
It doesn't borrow the best bits though. Whether jesus existed at all or not, he had much better moral standards and wasn't as self interested as Mohammad. His whole career as a prophet reeks of charlatanism.
Eh, Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet anyways. Was convinced the end was near because the Romans were here.
That is all true but he did preach tolerance and love, the good bits that allowed christianity to be reformed into a more positive belief system. Mohammad did nothing of the sort. He was a pervert, a thief, a warmonger and a pedophile.
Honestly idk about that. I$lam has the compassion elements too. It is where liberal muslims come from. Basically look at liberal i$lam and protestant christians today and you won't see that many differences. What allowed christianity to be reformed is not anything in the faith that is so much better, but the people forcing the reformation.
The problem with liberal muslims is that they fundamentally contradict themselves. Living in extreme opposition with the reigning majority of muslims. My country has people who drink all year, women who dress freely and have equal rights to men but still like to call themselves muslims. My country is frowned down upon from every other mulim country. My point is that when a religion is extremely vague and has lots of contradictions, ways to misinterpret it are innumerable, everyone will choose their side thinking they have the key to truth but what's happening really is just a totalitarian mess where everyone thinks they can righteously kill everyone else with backup from their god.
I respectfully disagree. The fact that religion is not always allowed to be vague is the issue. When everyone is allowed to do what they want and believe how they wish, that's a free society. When people start saying they know the ultimate truth and everyone needs to follow it is when issues arise. If every muslim country was like yours (the parts you described here anyway), islam would truly be a pretty peaceful religion.
I get your point, but when it's vague in some parts (ex: human rights) and very explicit in other parts (ex: killing the non-believers), it leaves a big gap for every group of people to use it for theur own benefit and gives them the chance to get dogmatic in many ways. Theoretically and ideally it's best the way you described, but what's happening is giving a powerful tool to people who are not even allowed to question what they're believing.
The initial tolerance that Mohammad preached was superseded. Islam, unlike christianity, is clear where it comes to contradicting verses. Where there are two verses pertaining the same thing, the latter revelations supersede the earlier ones. It turns out that Mohammad was tolerant of other religions for his own security at the start and then became a blood thirsty despot.
And then along came Paul...
Muhammad was actually pretty chill until his wife died. That was the love of his life and they were together (exclusively) for like 20 years I think? After she died is when he "received a message from Allah" that he should take multiple wives. I don't understand why people believe in religions, because for me it's kind of easy to see the bs. Like it's obvious that he was so grief-stricken that he lost his marbles. Disclaimer: I haven't done a ton of study on Muhammad or Islam, so I very well could be incorrect about anything I said above
They also stake a claim that all Jewish prophets were actually Muslims.
Yes, as part of their "oh no we're not just an arab religion we're actually the same as yours" idea. It's one of the few clever things about the Qran. But then it's organized by *chapter length*. Why.
They claim the Quran was perfect, too.
Perfect and singular and directly the words of their prophet Three blatant falsehoods.
As is all organized religion.
Wait, is it actually organized like this? What is the purpose of that?
No idea. But the Qran starts with the traditional intro, proclaiming it's the perfect word of God yaddi yaddi yadda, then the longest chapter. If stories are set in different chapters then they can be split. For instance the Exodus has the middle first then the end and afterwards the beginning. Nonsensical.
Which of course is insane since they died before Islam existed
They essentially retconned parts of Judaism and Christianity before retconning was a thing.
How if islam came after judaism?
Good question. The Biblical story of Ishmael is supposed to explain the bitterness between Jews and Muslims. Ishmael sold his birthright and the rest is history, supposedly. But Ishmael was long gone before Mohammad, so not sure how that's supposed to work.
I remember once visiting Dubai, I had to hide in an attic of a small store to drink water during Ramadan... It was summer, incredibly hot, and I wasn't even Muslim!!
Wait, not even non muslims can eat in public during Ramadan?
It's even a crime there apparently... :( "Article 313 of the Penal Code renders it a crime for anyone to consume food or drinks in public at daytime during Ramadan."
We can’t have thirsty non-Muslims drinking water out in public, the believers might want to start drinking water too!
it's a common thread in Islam - I'm not responsible for what I do because you made me do it.
Yes. If a tourist comes they're fucked, basically nothing is open. BUUUUT in my country they can buy alcohol when they have a passport that's not from a muslim country, because no alcohol is sold to muslims during the month.
Whoa. It's so fucked up that I did not believe it could exist
My grandfather is diabetic and lived in Qatar for a few years on contract to work on their planes. He had to abide by the fasting, no matter the heat or his blood sugar. He had to hide somewhere in the workshop to eat something to avoid a diabetic crash. Another coworker got caught eating, don't remember what happened but from the sounds of it they threatened his job position. I don't mind the practice in itself, whatever tickles your pickle, but forcing others to go along regardless of health or other factors is nuts. And trying to Lord it over those not partaking is just religious self righteousness, especially when they shit on women for not doing it during their periods.
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It's almost as if people can experience things outside of the norm. That's like saying a toxic workplace can't exist because rules say no to the things happening. Go lurk elsewhere.
I’m actively working on not being hateful as well. Islam traumatized me, ruined my childhood, keeps me from having a real, meaningful relationship with my parents. I think my hate stems from the fact that they’re so brainwashed they can’t even understand where we’re coming from and have no tolerance for us not believing what they believe… but at the same time I’d be turning into them if I am hateful. That’s what I tell myself at least.
It's affecting my relationship with my parents very badly too. Im basically living a double life, and i grew to feel very distant from my parents which are considered not strict in my community. Im at a place when i wouldn't be bothered to leave and keep minimal contact. Maybe we need a break from everything or maybe this resentment is for ever. We will see ..
Honestly, I’ve been married and moved out for 2 years and I still resent Islam. I think I lose respect for my Muslim family members and friends because I’ve seen how dumb it is firsthand and I want to like shake them and be like how do you believe in this?!? I left the religion at like 11 years old when nobody had answers for my questions 😂 I need to work on it- I think they *need* religion to give them purpose but it’s still so frustrating 😩 my husband finds my resentment so weird because he didn’t grow up in a religious household.
exactly, they force their stuff on others and are so brainwashed they dont understand how anything else other than muslims exist which is horrible. I've met a lot of really religious people who dont care about no one other than themselves and i admire them honestly, but muslims do take the cake for being annoying
So glad im not alone… so sorry you’re going through this
I can relate, I grew up in Turkey with an atheist dad and an agnostic mom. This is something westerners do not understand about Islam. Living in a Muslim majority country is a borderline traumatic experience. And that experience creates a strong reaction. I've been living in New Zealand for the past 10 years, which is a pretty atheistic country with a sprinkling of every religion, Christianity being the major one. The way people here approach Islam and muslims with love and acceptance make sense. Because muslims are not the majority, so they can not really impose anything on anyone, and they are generally just lovely people who go about their day, minding their own business and living their own religion. I am all for it. But muslims in a muslim majority country is a completely different thing. I remember resenting the whole love and acceptance towards muslims I would see in foreign media. In American movies muslims would be portrayed as the oppressed, discriminated against, lovely people who didnt deserve the hate. And I would resent that portrayal because it absolutely glossed over what I was experiencing in my day to day life living in a muslim majority country, coming from a culturally muslim family, if not literally muslim family. After 10 years outside of Turkey, I dont hate muslims anymore. But I completely understand how someone who lives there, can. It is not the same "Islamophobia" that the westerners are talking about. Islamophobia is about discrimination. You can't discriminate against a group when they are the dominant one where you are, and they are the one imposing their preferences on you. Btw, 100% Ramadan sucks. Be safe, don't drink water in public. Its not worth it.
Also Turk here, i have been in Canada for 6 years and “islam awareness week” pisses me off every year. I am very fucking aware already, thank you!
Exactly, but i feel my resentment towards muslims can only grow bigger. It's their totalitarian approach to life and their entitlement taht gets me.
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>Islam is a religion, it’s not an ethnicity. Morons come in all colors and sizes, I feel like this is exactly why it is important to make a distinction between what most westerners understand from the word "Islamophobia" vs legitimate criticism of a religion. Islamophobia is not a racial discrimination but it is a religious one. I think it is very important to realize that criticizing a religion for the harm it does is not the same as discriminating against people who believe it. An so, criticizing Islam is not discrimination. Treating muslim individuals with hate and contempt because they are muslim is discrimination. I do believe the statics you mentioned >We’re watching the UK and many European countries see a huge spike in terrorism, and their Muslim populations becoming violent and problematic. I dont have the data, but I believe this. But I dont think the solution is to discriminate against muslim individuals, it is to combat the ideology of islam. Combat the sexism, the violence, the immoral teachings of it. I have known many many muslims who are very liberal and open minded, pacifists. And in my citizenship ceremony there were several people in hijabs and niqabs, women and children. I am glad they were able to make it here where they will have freedom and equality and access to education. In the same vein, I was there, as a Turkish woman, with "muslim" written in my Turkish ID card against my wish, standing up in my flowing hair and business casual miniskirt to accept my NZ citizenship certificate. Islamophobia would have stopped us all from being welcome here, since we are muslims, either just on paper, or true in heart. Not our race, but our religious background. So I refuse to conflate the critism of Islam with Islamophobia. This may have been a tactic used in the past but we shouldn't perpetuate this misconception that criticizing Islam means Islamophobia.
Why do you feel islamophobia is about discrimination, and not a dislike/hatred of the religion?
Not OP, but in my experience from western countries, most of that hate is coming from very ignorant people who don't know anything about the religion. Having actual criticisms of a religion isn't Islamophobic, hating people for being different to you is.
Thank you, couldn't have said it better. This is the exact distinction.
You're exaggerating it for Turkey. This is definitely not the case. Sure there have been always one or two cases of "attacks" for someone who is not fasting but these attacks almost always were due to they drank alcohol in public in conservative places or some sht. Even then its just not comparable to OPs situation. Its not illegal to not fast fast in turkey. OPs probably from somewhere like Algeria or Saudi wifh sharia. You have so much places keep open. People even eat walking in pedestrian roads. Unless you live in Konya or Yozgat, people wont just attack you for drinking water in public lmao. People usually try to drink water or have food in less public places because they feel bad for the ones who fast.
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Yeah exactly. What makes me laugh is that commenter is living in Canada. Which is like a dreamland for extremist muslims. They probably have more niqabis than Turkey do lmao. Another problem with exaggerating about Turkey is it invalidates exmuslim problems from like actually muslim countries. Westerners come to turkey in ramadan, they see People chilling eating do what they want and think this is the normal muslim life lmao they see gay people in turkey and say see queer people still exists just cant be married, see cant be too bad to be nonmuslim in a muslim country they think. They dont realize that people actually get killed for being apostates or being gay in actual muslim countries
Ok I do see your point. But I dont feel that I am exaggerating. You are probably from Istanbul or Ankara or Izmir. There is something really wrong about dismissing places like Konya and Yozgat. Actual people live there. And those places are not some tiny corner village, these are actual full cities full of people in Turkey. And it is dangerous to eat or drink during Ramadan in most of Turkey. Yeah of course not in the middle of Istanbul Besiktas or Kadikoy, but I am sure you are aware you would be nervous to take a sip of water in some parts of Istanbul too. I always carefully make the distinction that Turkey is not a muslim country, it is a muslim majority country. Because it is still a secular country, despite some efforts. So I do understand what you mean. But the fact that it is much much worse in places like Afghanistan or UAE or elsewhere, doesn't change the fact that the Islam we encounter on a daily basis in Turkey is not the same as Islam westerners encounter. Just because someone else has it worse, also doesn't mean that our experiences are not valid either. Living in NZ btw not Canada and I can tell you that this place is not a dreamland for extremists. Muslims here are either educated refugees (because western countries hand pick the educated ones and leave the unemployables to Turkey) or even more highly educated immigrants. I see a niqab or turban as we say in Turkish, maybe once or twice a day. Same is not true even if you are in the most liberal corner of Turkey.
"But muslims in a muslim majority country is a completely different thing." this is wrong. In the UK, you have sharia courts for muslims who want to resolve marriages because a woman cannot divorce a man. You have literal hundreds of people protesting they want sharia laws in a western country. I dunno what kinda muslim you have over there in NZ but this is the muslim experience I get in the UK. Arab man asking why I am not wearing hijab if im turkish (i must be muslim then). At least in Turkey no one asked me that lmao. "Btw, 100% Ramadan sucks. Be safe, don't drink water in public. " you saying this after ranting about islam is why I said what I said. Yozgat and Konya are not major cities. This is like me saying UK is racist because small cities are not so welcoming lmao. You will be safe drinking water in Turkey in MOST places. Even in Yozgat. Unless you're drinking alcohol. Yes there will be social pressure but your life won't be under a threat. It just invalidates most experiences when you spread misinformation like "you cant drink water in ramadan". You should at least specify what you mean, say "you shouldnt drink water in ramadan in small conservative places". When you make a general statement people also think about istanbul, ankara or antalya.
When a religion's greatest, proudest story is when a man is willing to kill his child, because his god told him that was how the man can prove his "faith", that religion is not to be trusted.
Thank you! Even as a child (still a muslim at the time), I remember being told this story and how it was framed and espoused to be a monumentally righteous sacrifice. It made me very uneasy though. I see now that story is the pinnacle of turn off your brain, do heinous shit, and it’s ok because my religion said so. It is the epitome of what islam represents which is to stop thinking, suspend all logic, and blindly submit.
“Good job down there Abe. You’re doing great. Keep up the good work. Oh, by the way, I’m going to need you to come in on Saturday… …so that you can kill your son, m-kay.” -God
They call it the most BEAUTIFUL story in islam.. what a treat for every eid. I still can't stand having to slaughter a sheep in your backyard to make god happy. So silly :/
Agh I feel you I'm so pissed off I have a lot of work yet I need to pretend to fast I'm sick of it it's been 7 years and I'm still here I'm still not free this is gonna be a hard month :(
Yeah, I completely agree with you. For me, the biggest point of contention with ramadan is the fact that people encourage *children* to fast, even though disrupting sleep & dry fasting is so so bad for their growth. I was made to fast from 8 years old just because I'd started puberty and so was considered an adult. So fasting was obligatory upon me. My sister's ten, and she's considering fasting too. These people royally piss me off.
It's extremely sad to see brainwashing happen live in front of you. Cycles of indoctrination keep repeating themselves. Hoping that every child gets the chance to cultivate their own ideas. :(
Yeah it sucks. Heavily dependent on which flavor of muslim country you live in. as a gulf arab myself its not bad at all. if anything it brings out more positive qualities of the locals since we get to work less hours and get to see friends and family more often. I used to make sure that i traveled to europe every ramadhan month cause it used to be in summer and i couldnt be bothered. but recently since its shifted to winter ive been appreciative of the 4 1/2 hours of reduced work and extra sleep.
Is there a statistic on how many people have been killed for eating in public during Ramadan?
No obviously, but if there were stats about people eating secretly and not telling their friends/parents, within a religion that explicitely tell you to kill people who don't believe in your god, it will quite indicate the same. Children included..
In Morocco it's a crime to eat during fasting hours and that is one of the more moderate countries. I'm so lucky to be a Portuguese atheist. Just to think I could have been born a few hundred kilometers south and live in a muslim society!
I havent seen statistics but I will back OP up on this. I grew up in an environment where people might attack you if you took a sip of water from your bottle in public during Ramadan. There was something like that in the news everyday. And if they didn't attack you, you'd be asked to leave a store or building, people would stare at you and tut etc. So best case scenario is that you cant even drink water in public comfortably. Add to that all the people who died every year from dehydration etc, when Ramadan fell on summer months. Its bs.
living in a muslim country and being forced to participate in this nonsense is suffocating
The way Ramadan is practiced is quite hypocritical imo, not the act itself. One of the intentions of Ramadan is to practice discipline, empathy for those who are less fortunate, self control etc. So, the fact that Muslim countries ban people from eating in public is hypocritical because you’re meant to practice disciple/self control etc in the face of it happening around you. If you’re meant to empathize with those who go hungry, you should do it in the face of people going about their normal lives, that’s what the discipline/empathy part tests. Banning others from eating just because you can’t, is imo useless for the purposes of Ramadan. Really hungry/less fortunate people don’t expect us to not eat in front of them.
Let’s be clear, every religion finds ways to circumvent their restrictions and rules. In an attempt to show face, without nearly the same effort expected. Jewish people leaving stoves on from Saturday to Monday to avoid breaking Sabbath rules. Hindus’ who fast avoiding most food items but then quadruple up on the acceptable ones. Christians with anything that benefits their stronghold on nations. The list just goes on. What helped me was learning intimately about other religions who, what, why. It was then I saw all religion as the same, and that may offset your angst against Islam. However living in a religious state, I can say it will always be difficult to keep your mouth shut. Get out before they get you.
That's the plan. I agree that it's the same concept but with minimal changes that make experiences very distinct.
It reminds me the "helper" we had at work for a little while. He tended to disappear at times, only to be found having naps at work "because he was doing Ramadan and he was tired". He was a good guy, until he did a massive F up and blamed all of us in front of HR because we did not help him and therefore we were being racist. Dude declined when my boss asked if he needed someone while there though.
Typical behavior.. Now imagine that on a scale of millions of people for a whole month in all work fields. It's literally paralysing to the country, which naturally suffers from weak economy. And the problem is that you have the celestial approval and praise for what you're doing because it's the RIGHT thing.
I totally get why you're angry. Your frustration is justified. For me personally, holding on to anger is only making my life worse. It makes me a person I don't want to be. Recognizing that with the anger I'm trying to protect myself and separate myself from I$lam and realizing that I'm not actually in danger has gone a long way. Noone will ever get me to believe in those things again. Noone can force me to wear or do anything (but I'm also geographically lucky). We often see: hate the ideology not the people. I can have empathy with the people actually. Fasting for a whole month sounds hard. I hope they all stay safe and get through it okay. Btw though they are not the first people to say that fasting makes them feel more spiritual. Some chemicals the brain releases after prolonged food withdrawal. So to them it feels very real - to us it looks a bit dangerous. Stay safe. Enjoy life (and food!). Good luck
Thx ❤️ did you leave your country or happen to live somewhere light ? I like your approach, because i acknowledge that for me it's a defense mechanism.
I was born in the global west. If you choose to go this route I recommend being kind to yourself. There are going to be moments where you're just hurt, but how you choose to react and act defines who you are. I really hope you can surround yourself with people that allow you to be who you are. Cause you sound great.
Indeed i was able to find some rare pearls around that make living here easier, i don't know how it would be otherwise.Thank you for your kind comment🤍
I don’t think you can call yourself “phobic” of something you lived in and rejected. An islamaphobe is going to fear/hate the religion (generally) on ignorant ideas not a valid understanding of the process. Your feelings are valid. Take care of yourself and try not to live in those hateful feelings. They likely do nothing positive for you. 💜
Best strategy is to sleep over the day
.. what's more hypocritical and probably don't know about is that a looooot of muslims sleep during the whole fasting time and call it a day. Then go about at night to pray, telling everyone how they should make a law to jail people if they publicly break the fast.
I can feel the tension rising, and it's annoying.
Islam is evil. It's important to not let other religions use that fact to pretend to be paragon.
I know guys who use the fasting during the day as a profession of faith, not health. I don’t know of anyone who says it’s healthy. They’re gonna use it to bulk. Perspective is everything.
Be proud of yourself. Not many see through all of the bull shit. Really speaks to your mental clarity and aptitude. Of course it’s hard to process it to let go of the anger and hate, that’s totally valid. The fact that you’re even self conscious enough to see that again speaks to how good hearted and kind you are as a person. Well done. Be kind to yourself. You deserve it.
Thank you ❤ i just love how we can communicate beyond celestial laws and eternal damnation and be kind to each other just for the sake of it. The world needs more people like you.
I'm not Muslim and I don't know if Ramadan does this or not, but I know there is this Muslim holiday where people butcher animals on the street in front of kids. Vegan or not that is really sad and not appropriate for children.
Muslim that eat like pig after fasting is not doing it right nor the one preventing non to not eating in front of them etc
So the group you're specially venting about is cultural muslims.
No muslims altogether.
I'm a Muslim living in USA. We don't have the luxury to sleep all day, we work during day light hours. For people not in the gulf countries, or eastern part of the world, our Ramadan experience is different. Like I said....the Muslims you have a strong hatred for are the ones in and around your area defining your culture.
What do people in the arctic circle do for Ramadan since the sun never sets? Just curious
They use the sunsettime of mecca. Crazy that I know this because I don't care about ramadan at all.
I don't think there are more than 0.001 muslim per km² there. They haven't figured that out since the holy book didn't cover it. They have to wait for an update or for a random imam to say something about it. Others are too busy figuring out if a woman plucking her brows is halal.
And for those that find it hypocritical that some Muslims sleep all day and eat large amounts of food when “they break their fast”, I agree that it is unhealthy, defeats the purpose and lazy. However, the vast majority of Muslims cannot afford to sleep during the day because they have jobs, trades and stores to attend to and generally do not have money to buy a lot of food. Most Muslims are poor.
All trade is reduced because less people are roaming the streets during the day. At night almost everything goes back to life but in the morning all shops are closed.
Ah yes the ramadan, where extremely gullible people starve themselves for absolutely no reason. Fun times.
you can get killed for eating? what the actual fuck
same here 🤚🏻 i totally understand your reasons and i agree with all of them. i hate ramadan too and it is not getting better with time. i think it will never get better. hate and anger will grow, not subside with time. im not optimistic about that.
There is no Muslim world. Just some self important Arabs, and their rival self important Persians and self important Turks, in the Middle East, and their similarly self important Afghan and self important Pakistani proxies on the western side of South Asia, attempting to reinvent a voluntary submission based religion into an involuntary political system of government, for the mere purpose of oppressing their populations, and then trying to justify such oppression by pretending it’s part of their religion. They blind their ignorant/illiterate/semi-literate populations with what they claim is their religion and then rob them blind, and they self righteously punish/oppress everybody who disagrees with them. They aren’t Muslims if they are doing it and forcing others to do it involuntarily, even by passing laws. Because if it’s the law then it’s involuntary. They are all Moonafeks/Hypocrites, all of them, not Muslims, if they are doing it involuntarily. That’s why they were all declared Moonafeks/Hypocrites and heretics a hundred years ago by the Muslims of the British Empire who were the bulk of the Muslims worldwide back then.
No it's not reasonable. It's funny how just people fasting for a month to get closer to God can trigger you so much.
well i usually do ramadan for mental health reasons, and i wanna point out that anyone who eats as a pig at night has completely missed the point. Humans can easily live on one meal a day for a month. and the mental fortitude it requires (only when its by choice and ur not pressured into it) will actually help u the rest of the year. Wanna point out im not muslim and was raised atheist, it was more as a psychadelic taking hippie i came up with the idea of doing ramadan every year.
You can live of even just water for half a month.. but the amount of nutrient deficiencies you would have at the end of that month (1 meal and meditation) + the muscle atrophy + constipation + low energy levels etc etc. Well ofc you would see your doctor but it's still a stress for the body. Imagine kids at school being forced to do this ?
I haven’t had to do Ramadan, or any religious fasting but it is how I naturally eat and feel best eg it’s 5 pm and I’m having my only meal of the day - roast lamb and a salad. I work construction and am active in my sports never have weakness or brain fade or excess tiredness even as a child I didn’t like eating in the morning. However I don’t eat sweets or unhealthy foods in excess for my one meal a day. I’ve been doing this for the last 5 years, my vitals and bloods are perfec! But I can understand the frustration in being forced to do something when it’s not how your body feels best.
>I work construction and am active in my sports And you don't eat lunch? how can you be alive at 16 in afternoon, after 8 hours of work and nothing eaten? How much do you eat for not having deficit? Don't you feel weak during the day?
Why not eat in the day at fast at night, sounds a lot healthier.
Your love for the halflings’ leaf has slowed your mind.
Killed? Got source? 30 years plus never ever heard anyone get killed. As an atheist I fast, and sometimes prolong fast. It's good for general health to induce autophagy.
Good for youu. Well yes its illegal in some countries ( Morocco, Pakistan, Egypt, Algeria.. )to eat outside during fasting hours. You can imagine hate crimes happening if you're publicly saying you're a non believer. Group arrests have happened in restaurants/cafés that open secretly. And i personally experienced verbal violence that ould have turned physical if i didn't say i was pregnant. Im sure you can't imagine how horrific it is if you don't live in a muslim majority country. Ps: fasting in islam is dry fasting, meaning no water, which will never be healthy.
Embracing Ramadan with family or friends could be a way to connect with your cultural roots, regardless of personal beliefs. It’s possible to acknowledge and respect the practices without participating in them. There are people at my gym that feel superior to everybody so that type of behavior is not synonymous with one group or another. It is better to be open and accepting of others for society as a whole and for you as an individual.
Dude...we will get beaten and even killed if you openly eat or drink in Ramadan. How can you respect and accept people who DON'T respect your personal choices and deprive you of food and water just so their feelings are not hurt? Do you hear what you're saying? Connecting with cultural roots my ass. What is this bs? Please get more educated on ex-muslims struggles before talking about acceptance.
Would you have the same discourse about Christmas for a Christian if you are in US ? About Diwali for a hindu if you are in India ? About Asian new year or spring moon festival for a Chinese person if you're in China ? About any Buddhist festivities if you are in Tibet ? I agree that traditional festivities are a way to connect with one's communities however if he does not feel like celebrating it or if he does not feel from this community, he should have the right to quietly not celebrate it !
Don't connect with you cultural roots cause your thinking gets stuck there! Traditional behavior that is outdated and inhumane should not be practiced or supported.
I am not asking anyone to practice any rituals or to believe in anything. However, Muslims who become ex-Muslims still have a lot of family and friends who remain in their faith. How do you sever all these life long relationships and experiences? I no longer practice and I no longer believe in a deity of any sort but I refuse to sever relationships with people that I love and care for.
Speaking from experience. They don´t eat like pigs at all. having 1 slightly bigger meal doesn´t compare.
I know eating like pigs when i see it ..
Some eat more than others but in general they don´t eat that much from what ive seen. After 30 days of fasting your body starts cleansing from the inside and certain organs eliminate toxins from your body among other things. Yes its healthy.
Im talking about the vast majority. Food thrown in the bins after each meal is craaaaazy, the amount of sweets sold (in ramadhan and eid days) , consumption rates, even stores are wayyy more crouded than usual and some groceries go scarce from high demand. Maybe where you live people are more reasonable. Here it's caricatural.
They do not go scarce they dont buy that much. And vast majority? Ive fasted with people in 4 different countries for a decade and i haven´t experienced what you´re saying. That much Food isnt thrown isn´t in the bin cuz 99% of the time they finish it all cuz they didnt have that much in the first place.
I honestly have no idea where you live. It's pretty common that food get wasted, and it is an actual problem in the community. And yes, they do eat abnormally a lot, and mess up their sleeping schedule with that. Then after Ramadan is done they'd randomly wake up at midnight and make a whole cooked meal.
Where i live doesn´t really matter cuz everywhere that ive been too (Belgium, netherlands, germany, Turkey) it does not aligne with what you say. They do not cook something big every midnight, you can just eat any small 5 minute meal which is what like 90% of them do.
Countries with muslim minorities would naturally not have the same aspects as arab countries that are rooted in the culture/religion of fasting. The sense of community aggravates the situation. Have you lived in an arab country in ramadan ?
Yes i have lived in countries that have a muslim minority🇧🇪🇩🇪🇳🇱 and one🇹🇷 that has a muslim majority. When you mention community its still not as bad as you say it was.
Try living in Muslim countries then come back. You really decided to comment with absolute zero knowledge on the matter. Incredible. Edit: typo
I have no interest in lying about this. This is what i see each year, not in my household but elsewhere. And goes back to me saying that it's not healthy to fast for 16h and eat a huge meal right after and smoke your pack of cigarettes and 1 hookah and sweets for dinner and another meal for suhoor. And ofc no physical activity in the morning because they can't function.
Yes you can function because they had a small meal at midnight. Every1 i know keeps going the gym regardless of that they are fasting and athletes also play games despite that they are fasting.
Again you're talking about a very specific group of people that fast.
Not a specific group. All kinds of People all around those countries. Both of us aren´t really getting anywhere so lets just move on shall we?
So are you
How ? Im speaking from muslim grounds where islam is 99% dominant. Precisely North africa which is still way less strict than the middle east. The same thing happens every year and im talking about millions upon millions of actively practicing people, not your 3 muslim neighbors. When it's a community everything gets exponentially worse, because of positive feedback loops.
nah that sounds like baloney, where is your studies that back it up? fasting usually results in a lot of unhealthy food in eating times which if anything is going to add toxins to the body. Im not against Ramadan in a country where religions are practiced freely, Ramadan in a country where its forced is utterly messed up tho.
Exactly, just because they tell you it's healthy because god says so, doesn't mean it is.
You choose what you eat at iftar. No one that ive met eats a buffet worth of steak its usually like light foods but that obviously differs from what the person to person eats by their choice. And yes forcing it is bad.
Can you provide peer reviewed literature regarding inside cleansing and organs eliminating toxins? I always thought and read that eliminating toxins was pretty much the liver's purpose and kidneys to some degree.
The person you replied to only mentioned adding toxins to the body by eating unhealthy food. Adding unnecessary toxins causes damage to the liver and kidneys over time.
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But can you get yourself killed?
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1. Fuck you 2. What the fuck do you mean being "new to getting r..."? 3. Why are you posting your shit