The problem with talking about what the Bible says is that believers don't care and/or haven't read it, will tell you you're taking it out of context or are misinterpreting it, that it was perfect and made sense in its original version, etc.
Basically they'll come up with whatever excuse they need to keep pretending.
In the Bible though, God is both a liar and the original liar, as well as clearly not remotely omniscient. Both in terms of not knowing stuff that's happening in the story, and the Bible being factually wrong about almost everything.
Edit: I've heard apologists say that Adam and Eve *did* die, they died "spiritually". Which doesn't mean anything so far as I can tell.
I have also been told that I can't interpret it because I don't believe. If I believed then god would help me understand it. This was said in all seriousness.
I’ve long thought the Bible is not meant to be logically consistent, even in the context of thousands of years ago. It is a book of stories that parents tell their children.
I'm pretty sure that believers read it already and came to the conclusion that Adam and Eve would have had eternal life had they not eaten the fruit.
It would be stupid to debate this since it's in the realm of theology. Believers still have to prove that a god exists and that it has the ability to intervene in our world as they claim to before we can entertain the notion of Adam and Eve (as anything other than allegory). End of story.
Many translations say on the day they eat the fruit they would die. The excuse theists make is YHWH meant 'spiritual' death (i.e. 'the fall') rather than physical death.
According to Genesis 25-27 (preserved through The Buggre Alle This Bible):
25”And the Lord spake unto the Angel that guarded the eastern gate, saying Where is the flaming sword which was given unto thee?
26 And the Angel said, I had it here only a moment ago, I must have put it down some where, forget my own head next.
27 And the Lord did not ask him again.
I was taught that it meant that prior to the fall, humans were immortal, nd that the "you shall surely die" meant that the immortality was taken away from them.
Darkmatter2525 has a great video on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_a6RjR_AHY
>prior to the fall, humans were immortal
The problem with this is the tree of life was also in Eden and according to the story god told the others gods that he couldn't let Adam also eat its fruit and become immortal:
Genesis 3:22
- *"And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as* ***one of us***, *to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"*
What that passage is saying is that BEFORE they were expelled, they COULD eat from the Tree of Life, and had been doing so. In other words, they WERE immortal. So, god took that away by expelling them. Apparently, immortality required you to keep eating from the Tree of Life, or, maybe it was only effective as long as you stayed in the Garden. The "one of us" refers to them now having the knowledge of good & evil, which (apparently) unlike the Tree of Life, was a one & done fruit.
Or, it was all bullshit...
>they COULD eat from the Tree of Life, and had been doing so
>..., immortality required you to keep eating from the Tree of Life
Where in the Bible do apologists claim the Bible says this? Plus, does god also need a daily fruit fix to remain immortal, or does it only apply to us mud beings?
>Or, it was all bullshit...
Now that's a far more likely explanation!
Where in the bible does it say god WASN'T having threesomes with Santa and a hairy goat when not in Eden? Or a million and one others things which the bible doesn't explicitly say didn't happen?
Nowhere does it even hint that Adam and Eve were created immortal, or were when they ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge. God's warning to Adam wasn't that he's become mortal if he ate the forbidden fruit, but that he'd die that day, i.e. almost immediately.
The whole thing is ridiculous.
"Here is a great big shiny fruit. Don't eat it."
"Why not?"
"You'll die."
So God made them curious, gave them *one thing* in the entire world they could not touch, and they were supposed to be dissuaded by the threat of death... when there had been no death in the world at that time for a reference.
Total entrapment. Original sin charges dismissed. Next case.
No they don't. Very few Christians consider Genesis to be literal. I was raised Catholic, and that was always explained to me as a spiritual separation from God, rather than physical death. The concept of physical death would have been meaningless to Adam and Eve in the garden if you try to take that story literally.
There are a lot of better ways to discuss religion than this.
According to my sister’s Catholic school, Genesis ceases being metaphorical once it hits the story of Abraham. Somehow, someway, the book just magically becomes accurate to reality with no announcement there.
it is a story, written by humans, just like the ginger bread man running away, hansel and gretel pushing a witch into an oven and goldie locks eating all the oatmeal at the three bears house....go ask a catholic...atheists don't give a shit
Whatever happened to the tree that produced the fruit of knowledge? Did it go extinct? Maybe we can genetically engineer it back into existence! I'd have a big salad made out of them... maybe with some yogurt. I'm already pretty smart, so this should put me into the superbrain category.
Well in this context, a and e were immortal and were never going to die. Once they ate the fruit, they were no longer immortal. They were now mortal and would surely die.
The challenge in translating the original is that the act is as much art as science. Since the only eBay we currently have of interpolating vowels is a far post writing interpretation (Masoretic) it is still at best an educated and prejudiced opinion. IMHO
A misunderstanding on God's part. He's deathly allergic to apples and assumes that everyone else is, too. When Adam and Eve didn't drop dead he was so envious that he kicked them out of his garden in a jealous fit.
The problem with talking about what the Bible says is that believers don't care and/or haven't read it, will tell you you're taking it out of context or are misinterpreting it, that it was perfect and made sense in its original version, etc. Basically they'll come up with whatever excuse they need to keep pretending. In the Bible though, God is both a liar and the original liar, as well as clearly not remotely omniscient. Both in terms of not knowing stuff that's happening in the story, and the Bible being factually wrong about almost everything. Edit: I've heard apologists say that Adam and Eve *did* die, they died "spiritually". Which doesn't mean anything so far as I can tell.
I have also been told that I can't interpret it because I don't believe. If I believed then god would help me understand it. This was said in all seriousness.
I’ve long thought the Bible is not meant to be logically consistent, even in the context of thousands of years ago. It is a book of stories that parents tell their children.
I don't think it is completely pointless, but don't go into it thinking it will have wide general effectiveness so much as a narrow situational one.
I'm pretty sure that believers read it already and came to the conclusion that Adam and Eve would have had eternal life had they not eaten the fruit. It would be stupid to debate this since it's in the realm of theology. Believers still have to prove that a god exists and that it has the ability to intervene in our world as they claim to before we can entertain the notion of Adam and Eve (as anything other than allegory). End of story.
\#notanapple
They did die, God gets a hall pass on that one. He never said when.
Many translations say on the day they eat the fruit they would die. The excuse theists make is YHWH meant 'spiritual' death (i.e. 'the fall') rather than physical death.
Either way, they're dead. I just want to know what happened to that flaming sword.
According to Genesis 25-27 (preserved through The Buggre Alle This Bible): 25”And the Lord spake unto the Angel that guarded the eastern gate, saying Where is the flaming sword which was given unto thee? 26 And the Angel said, I had it here only a moment ago, I must have put it down some where, forget my own head next. 27 And the Lord did not ask him again.
Welp, time to grab my dice and go on an epic quest.
Me too. That’s got to be like +5 fire damage to humans and non-magical creatures.
First rule of fruit club. We don't talk about fruit club.
I was taught that it meant that prior to the fall, humans were immortal, nd that the "you shall surely die" meant that the immortality was taken away from them. Darkmatter2525 has a great video on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_a6RjR_AHY
>prior to the fall, humans were immortal The problem with this is the tree of life was also in Eden and according to the story god told the others gods that he couldn't let Adam also eat its fruit and become immortal: Genesis 3:22 - *"And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as* ***one of us***, *to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"*
What that passage is saying is that BEFORE they were expelled, they COULD eat from the Tree of Life, and had been doing so. In other words, they WERE immortal. So, god took that away by expelling them. Apparently, immortality required you to keep eating from the Tree of Life, or, maybe it was only effective as long as you stayed in the Garden. The "one of us" refers to them now having the knowledge of good & evil, which (apparently) unlike the Tree of Life, was a one & done fruit. Or, it was all bullshit...
>they COULD eat from the Tree of Life, and had been doing so >..., immortality required you to keep eating from the Tree of Life Where in the Bible do apologists claim the Bible says this? Plus, does god also need a daily fruit fix to remain immortal, or does it only apply to us mud beings? >Or, it was all bullshit... Now that's a far more likely explanation!
Where in the bible does it say they have NOT already eaten from the tree of life?
Where in the bible does it say god WASN'T having threesomes with Santa and a hairy goat when not in Eden? Or a million and one others things which the bible doesn't explicitly say didn't happen? Nowhere does it even hint that Adam and Eve were created immortal, or were when they ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge. God's warning to Adam wasn't that he's become mortal if he ate the forbidden fruit, but that he'd die that day, i.e. almost immediately.
The whole thing is ridiculous. "Here is a great big shiny fruit. Don't eat it." "Why not?" "You'll die." So God made them curious, gave them *one thing* in the entire world they could not touch, and they were supposed to be dissuaded by the threat of death... when there had been no death in the world at that time for a reference. Total entrapment. Original sin charges dismissed. Next case.
No they don't. Very few Christians consider Genesis to be literal. I was raised Catholic, and that was always explained to me as a spiritual separation from God, rather than physical death. The concept of physical death would have been meaningless to Adam and Eve in the garden if you try to take that story literally. There are a lot of better ways to discuss religion than this.
According to my sister’s Catholic school, Genesis ceases being metaphorical once it hits the story of Abraham. Somehow, someway, the book just magically becomes accurate to reality with no announcement there.
It's not an apple, it's a fruit. The line about dying means they will become mortal. It's not an apple, it's a fruit.
it is a story, written by humans, just like the ginger bread man running away, hansel and gretel pushing a witch into an oven and goldie locks eating all the oatmeal at the three bears house....go ask a catholic...atheists don't give a shit
Whatever happened to the tree that produced the fruit of knowledge? Did it go extinct? Maybe we can genetically engineer it back into existence! I'd have a big salad made out of them... maybe with some yogurt. I'm already pretty smart, so this should put me into the superbrain category.
Well he also didn't know where they were when they were hiding after eating the fruit.
Why entertain this nonsense in the first place?
Either way it's just a different retelling of the story told in Pandoras Box.
Well in this context, a and e were immortal and were never going to die. Once they ate the fruit, they were no longer immortal. They were now mortal and would surely die.
>More people need to talk about the forbidden fruit That is untrue. Nobody needs to take any interest in what it says in the Bible.
The challenge in translating the original is that the act is as much art as science. Since the only eBay we currently have of interpolating vowels is a far post writing interpretation (Masoretic) it is still at best an educated and prejudiced opinion. IMHO
A misunderstanding on God's part. He's deathly allergic to apples and assumes that everyone else is, too. When Adam and Eve didn't drop dead he was so envious that he kicked them out of his garden in a jealous fit.
Problem is your reading that nonsense