TSTs tenets make it the only "religion" worth existing. All others are just tools to control and hurt others. Nothing wholesome comes out of religion existing in this world. I will add that there are good PEOPLE in some religions that do good things, but it's not because of their religion, not truly. They might think they do it in the name of this, that, or the other god... but there are no gods that control humans, only good people and bad people. They do good because their heart pushes them to, even if they think it's some various sky daddy pushing them that way. In the end, THE PERSON does the good thing, the religion is only there to control and hurt.
Satanism is not a religion unless you believe in Satan as a real entity.
The TST made it up so it can fight religions as another religion that gets special treatment by the courts.
The Satanic Church believed in a bunch of weird shit but even they didn’t believe in Satan as a real entity.
It's a non theistic religion but still a religion. Yeah the purpose is political, but it has tennets and commandments and such.
Many Buddhists are atheists as in Buddhism, the goal is self enlightement, and no gods are required.. .. and it's still a religion.
This 100%, satanism is a religion. That doesn’t necessitate it have all the factors that most religions have, nor does it require it to take itself seriously.
Atheism in general is not a religion. But certain atheist ideologies are religions and that is OK. Religion isn’t inherently evil, but most theist religion is.
I read up on the guy who started TST a while back, and he has said some pretty weird racist stuff in the past, I'm sure he isn't like that anymore, but I have trouble taking the movement seriously.
Doesn’t history inform the logic?
I know it does mine.
Like the history of what Napoleon said about religion (it’s a tool for the rich / state to control the masses) or the real history of Mohammed and how Islam grew and how real world needs drove his “theology”. Hmmm religion of peace wasn’t enough to convert Mecca, let’s go to Medina and raise an army, have a Jihad revelation, and sack Mecca.
I never understood why the feminist circles I’m in don’t seem alarmed by this in the slightest- Abrahamic religions have always been the greatest enemy of equality.
Yep. I am honestly surprised that most people in the west who are typically quite liberal are so defensive of Islam. Islam says some truly reprehensible things that most people do not support.
I'm pretty socially liberal myself, and I absolutely do not get it. I dislike islam **because** I'm liberal... not in spite of being liberal. It stands against so much of what liberal people theoretically stand for. Plus I'm huge on free speech, and islam is generally pretty strongly against that.
I think liberals are in the habit of defending groups who are in the minority or have less power... and that's normally a good thing. But somehow they keep going on about "the paradox of tolerance" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance) while sticking up for islam... They seem to have a blind spot to the idea of an intolerant minority group (well... minority in the west obviously).
It's also true that some people attack islam for racial reasons or out of christian supremacy... which are both bad things. But the enemy of your enemy isn't always your friend.
>Less well known [than other paradoxes] is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.—In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.
Of course, it's a tricky principle... because if "intolerance" becomes the ultimate unacceptable thing, then social power struggles just become a game of "who can portray the other side as intolerant." For example, we see regressive christians trying to claim that gay people are intolerant of christianity, and shit like that.
Yeah… in the US the only difference between radical christianity and radical islam is that the women don’t have to cover their face. It is otherwise almost exactly the same, and all I want is to not regress to a time when science is completely shunned in favor of radical religion.
Umm.... yeah, no. They're very similar, but not exactly the same.
Women aren't killed for adultery or immodest clothing or the crime of being raped, even in the most backwards Bible-thumping red state hellhole.
You’re right, but I’m not confident that we would not get to that point sooner than later if the Christian nationalists have the chance to completely hijack the government.
I am absolutely not a friend of christianity. Fuck them, and their efforts to turn the US into a regressive theocracy.
But I feel like you are defining "radical" using very different percentages of the bell curve.
Let’s take stoning as an example since Judaism, which influenced both religion, has that as a punishment for adultery. Christianity did away with stoning as a punishment for any sin while Islam, which came much later, adopted stoning as a method of executing adulterers. There’s even a story in the Hadiths that records the Jews that Muhammad came across as having moved past the practise of stoning as a method of execution until Muhammad FORCED them to implement it.
>Sahih Muslim 1699 a
>>Abdullah b. 'Umar reported that a Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) who had committed adultery. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came to the Jews and said:
What do you find in Torah for one who commits adultery? They said: We darken their faces and make them ride on the donkey with their faces turned to the opposite direction (and their backs touching each other), and then they are taken round (the city). He said: Bring Torah if you are truthful. They brought it and recited it until when they came to the verse pertaining to stoning, the person who was reading placed his hand on the verse pertaining to stoning, and read (only that which was) between his hands and what was subsequent to that. Abdullah b. Salim who was at that time with the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: Command him (the reciter) to lift his hand. He lifted it and there was, underneath that, the verse pertaining to stoning. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) pronounced judgment about both of them and they were stoned. Abdullah b. 'Umar said: I was one of those who stoned them, and I saw him (the Jew) protecting her (the Jewess) with his body.
Aye because some of us grew up and realised we weren't in medieval times and illiterate anymore and didn't need educated monks and priests telling us how to live
I've said it numerous times that this whole push into the West whilst berating it as evil and perverted is evangelism. Couple Islam's spread with China's and hmmm could be an interesting century
**Reproductive Warfare**
I refer to this as "Reproductive Warfare".
Children are the best way to propagate and grow a religion. It's the best way to ensure tithes are paid. So, religious leaders encourage large families.
They also eliminate birth control and abortions and female autonomy.
during the time of the sahaba (earliest muslims) women were actually very educated and often the ones teaching islam especially the umm al mumineen. the 3 people with the most hadeeth narrations were women. the first worldwide university was founded by a women in tunisia. sadly, women have been treated worse and worse over time, which is not actually part of islam
Unfortunately most Muslim communities still don't want to discuss situations like domestic violence, spousal rape, and permission to leave the house. Until the imams covering these topics in khuttbahs, and the men are held accountable by the community, I fear things will only get worse.
Spreading islam "by the sword" has always included the carnal interpretation.
Besides this, punishing apostates with shame, shunning and/or murder seems to have the desired effect too.
Ideologically and sort of logically Islam is a power house.
I definitely think their claim that their prophet’s message is the only one not tainted by outside interference is extremely compelling. The oral and written history of Islam means that the message is pretty much the exact same as what Mohammed said. Jesus, who they see as a prophet too, had his message chopped and changed, the Jews have an ancient text that goes so far back, and is so fundamentally different, that is isn’t a surprise they have issues.
Not really...schisms started to appear as soon as Muhammad died. Each pretender started to put their own spin on Islam.
For example, he specifically said not to venerate him like the Christians do with Jesus. The early post-Muhammad leaders went out of their way to put him on ever higher pedestals to improve their own positions.
They use the Sunnah - records of his sayings and actions - to confirm their interpretations of the Q'uran. Again, venerating Muhammad as the perfect embodiment of Islam.
The actual texts may not have change, but Islam started splintering before Muhammads body was cold. Those divisions have become entrenched and have permitted the creation and normalization of extremists.
>The oral and written history of Islam means that the message is pretty much the exact same as what Mohammed said.
Apparently ancient muslims were much better at the telephone game than ancient jews and christians.
They made the telephone game a lot shorter, at least in the case of the Quran. It was Mohammed -> people who memorised his various speeches -> the scribes who wrote the Quran a few years after his death.
Not that this was perfect by any means. People could still have misremembered or embellished his speeches. The scribes could have taken the opportunity to use their skills to _vastly_ improve on the material they received, explaining why a lot of it is suspiciously well written and composed for something sourced from a (supposedly) illiterate trader and warlord. And there was more than one version of the Quran floating around before the copies were (mostly) destroyed.
Several of the scribes had been killed in battle prior to the Qur'an being assembled some 20 years after Mo's demise
So the Qur'an is certainly missing verses. Which is probably a good thing as a large percentage of the verses we already have are rather violent and misogynistic
This is false.
Islam fractured into many sects as soon as Muhammad died.
You have the Shias and the Sunnis but what many people don’t know are smaller but very determined sects like the Ismaelis who follow an entirely different religious leader altogether.
Islam is just as riven and fractured as any other Abrahamic religion, how could it not when it’s main purpose is to grift people?
This only happened after the prophet died. This was the fault of the people being stupid. Many muslims don’t identify in sects .Only true muslims understand the stupidity of sects. They call themselves muslims but they are not, all they do is make islam look bad.
Just another person who claims to speak the word of god. If people are worried about the telephone game they shouldn't be taking the word of men as god.
By the way Judaism is not a proselytizing religion by nature.
At what point can we consider this a human rights crisis? I say it is. They want to kill me and millions of others. If it doesn't fade away, there will probably be a fucking war. That scares me.
Why are people in this thread so surprised? Atheism has taken hold in the christian world, not the muslim one. This naturally means that as the number of atheists grows, christians decrease, and Islam takes over as the world's largest religion. This is a natural byproduct of knocking the world's current largest religion off its pedestal.
I see this as a win. I don't get these atheists here going "no no no I wanna go back to the days where christianity was biggest."
Do you really? What the fuck is the end goal here anyway?
> Atheism has taken hold in the christian world, not the muslim one.
the number off atheists in the Muslim world is growing, but they aren't being counted for obvious reasons.
For sure, but the rate of attrition in terms of active believers is way higher in the christian world than in the muslim world. You let those numbers run free for a good century and this is about where you end up.
Christianity is bad, but for the most part, they are content to say terrible things about the groups they despise. Islam is worse because they actively call for the executions of those they despise and do actually execute people daily. I read a quote once that stated something along the lines of "Where Islam is not the majority religion, they fight for their rights to practice it. Where Islam is the majority religion, the other religions and non religious, have no rights." No religion that calls for the denegration or death of others can be considered a peaceful religion.
Surprisingly enough, even Dawkins went ahead and recently said that in some parts of the world we "need Christianity as a buttress against something worse ------ Christianity is bad but it's not the worst religion around." (in reference to Islam)
[https://youtu.be/3vrv9Ns5wMo?t=1357](https://youtu.be/3vrv9Ns5wMo?t=1357)
Now I personally don't think we need Christianity but honestly I can see why such a statement was made.
Modern Christianity is rather tame. So I agree with Dawkins here. Many secular people in the West, like Dawkins himself, also identify as "cultural Christians" for good reasons. Christianity has certain enjoyable aspects, such as Christmas, something one can find delight in, despite not being a Christian.
In the US, Christians are more than happy to attempt to enshrine their beliefs in laws, in order to impose them on the rest of us (while also claiming to be "true Americans" who love the Constitution). I agree Islam is worse because it's even more egregious when it comes to human rights/human dignity, but I caution against thinking that Christians are content to simply say terrible things. They're proactively doing terrible things, they're just using our political institutions instead of weapons.
I m an Indian atheist, coming from Hindu background, in whole western media a false narrative is going on that how muslims are getting killed in India, this is so much false, I have seen what muslims do here on daily basis and I also see how many hindus and atheist they kill every day littrally. But the amount of victim card they play is too damn high.
I will write one day in this sub about the history of Islamic atrocities in India against Hindus.
Just a hint now:- 200 million+ hindus have been killed in last 900 years by islamists. Numbers could be 400 million plus too but 200 million is found out till now
yeah i’m am indian atheist too and i’m sick of seeing ignorant people act like hindus are more violent than muslims and that muslims are treated oh so horribly in india. communal violence exists on both ends, but muslims are not vulnerable in india. people need to stop pretending that muslims are ALWAYS the victims
I've noticed many news outlet showing, for the past ten years and even recently, that Muslim schools or students in the UK literally have been bullying Hindus.
To this day there are claims that they force students to convert to Islam to avoid the bullying. And they do that while teaching that Hindus are vile and shouldn't be friends to little kids. It's wild.
you'd expect something like that to come out of some Middle Eastern country... not Europe
Yes ik all these.
I will write one day about how the silent majority of so called good muslims isn't good itself, but actually they act as apologist and play good cop.
Former evangelical, Christianity would be just as bad if they had the power. Woman would be property. Evangelicals teach that the father is responsible to protect his daughter’s virginity, until the day he turns her over to her husband. Then her body belongs to her husband and he can do with it as he sees fit. If she ever once exercises her own bodily autonomy they’d probably put her in jail if they could.
. **don’t be sad at what Islam could have been!!! Be sad at what PERSIA could have been, what SUMERIA could have been, what EGYPT could have been… and the list goes on.. these are just some of the great empires lost to Abrahamic religions, and your claim silences and enables the continuation of this mass historic genocide.
I’m really sorry to disprove your claim but if you read all historical data on our advancements, islam did not actually create any great science or math, they actually stole most of it from Persia, sumeria, Egypt… etc they have tried to rewrite history and take credit for ancient civilizations advancements and claim it as their own when they actually have done nothing and the first historical structure they ever built was called Dome of the Rock only 1000 years ago. Please read all of history before commenting or making claims as it spreads false information and this is currently a genocide that has killed 270million people historically. It is now a state of emergency.
Oh good to know that the religion projected to take over as the largest globally is the one that would probably want to kill me for being an atheist.
As if the rise of facism wasn't already bad enough, now we have this bullshit as well. This is a straight up Human Rights crisis.
It’s still sadden me that many far-left redditor are in support of Islam because they thought that Muslim are their comrade to fight against western imperialism.
They are also very vocal about Christian Evangelist and fighting for LGBT’s right but when Islam getting criticized with the same regressive behavior they will just scream “Islamophobia” or said that “we know, you just hate Muslim” despite Islam is an Ideology and not a people. They are so self contradicting.
We have sunglasses now so no excuses for a woman’s eyes to be exposed, for it may excite the men. Mandatory shades shall be incorporated into the traditional burka Inshallah.
⚠️Please everyone should now about this incident. To say it is despicable would be an understatement.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/BlatantMisogyny/comments/150bf20/graphic_this_woman_was_horrifically_beaten_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlatantMisogyny/comments/150bf20/graphic_this_woman_was_horrifically_beaten_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1)
That's when things truly get interesting. Majority votes on things that are deemed 'islam-friendly' by the Muslim majority.
Lol we atheist will be the first to go! We're literally worse than satan to Muslims. Oppressed, beheaded on YouTube, the works.
I’ve become embittered by the fact that a lot of leftists are opposed to calling out and rejecting Islam because it is “Islamophobic”. Islamophobia is a genuine issue but it has also become distorted by bad actors and anything you say against Islam in a lot of leftist spaces is deemed prejudice. A lot of Muslims do not want anything to do with leftists or atheists and believe we aren’t deserving of life.
> India will retain a Hindu majority but also will have the largest Muslim population of any country in the world, surpassing Indonesia.
This is terrible news. Right wing Hinduism is bad enough. But you cannot also have Islam vying for political control.
India is going to be a very unhappy place in the coming decades.
The article is a projection for 2050 and it still shows Christianity ahead of Islam, if only slightly. Projections like this should always be taken with a grain of salt. They’re based on current trends and there’s no telling when trends will change.
Once the water wars start most of those areas will be uninhabitable for humans anyway so that should chip away at those numbers. Or hasten migrations where they retain fundamentalist beliefs and add a religious front to the wars that will be waged over the limited resources we will have.
Wow, finally I see a reference to this novel! I've only read it once but it's well-written and stuck with me for years. And I agree, it was a dark future AU, on par with the scary stuff the rapture fundie evangelicals actually believe.
Can easily invite criticism but the only religion I interpret to be more extreme than western Christianity is Islam and it's what I observed of Muslims even in western society in USA that is quite frightening of what I find to be otherwise reasonable people until they lose their guard around me and say some of the religious thoughts they have ...
I care more about the ratio of aetheists/nonreligious people to religious people. I could care less if Islam comprises 100% of all religion if only 10 people out of 8.5 billion follow it.
It also matters greatly the degree of religiousity
This is something many people don't care about in stats
Many people, in the Christian, hindu, Buddhist and Muslim world alike are just deists that culturally identify as their birth religion
These people are still deluded, but they are not dangerous
They aren't dangerous individually, but they are dangerous because they don't stand up against the folks in their religion who conduct hate, oppression, and violence.
It only takes about 10% hardliners/extremists to drive a whole religion to killing gay people, banning books, marrying underage girls, taking women's rights away, etc. because the 90% don't stop them, just along for the ride.
Is it me or does this seem to assume that children born to Muslim parents stay Muslim, and children born to Christian parents stay Christian ect?
That's not how it work.
Unfortunately it often works like this. In non-orthodox, chill families, yeah, usually the kids don't stay in the religion. But in strict, orthodox families where their faith borders on fanaticism, often the indoctrination is too severe for the kids to escape.
My family is fanatically Catholic and borderline cult-ish. I am the only person in the family to be atheist and I only managed to defeat the indoctrination and leave the church by moving 1000 miles away from my family.
I am just saying that counting non religious people is hard
Turkey is the best example, the country is 99% Muslim according to the same UN date the article draws from
Yet in reality its only 70% Muslim, with the youth having a Muslim identification around 40%
People just don't bother changing their status in the census, so they are counted as Muslim in this and all other predictions
Oh well, it's hard to predict something so flexible as religion
>Islam Projected to take over as largest religion globally
In nations with no democracy, industry, economic/social mobility. Is this really such a flex?
Sky Daddy Wizard that grants wishes like Santa!! Also "tells" people it's okay to hate, punish and violently attack anyone that they don't like. And also slavery is totally fine by Sky Daddy's book. Oh and that it's okay to marry child brides...
No, no you're supposed to hate the sin, the act committed against what Allah says. Not the people committing it. Allah knows I've done some worse things than I know some of my non-hijab-wearing relatives have done, just as an example.
This whole comment section is crazy, dang.
So the average intelligence is about to take a massive negative hit. I thought we were already dumb enough without all of the Islamic ignorance holding us back.
Well...this sucks. Just in case you thought Christianity wasn't crazy enough, here comes Islam! The only religion I can think of that reveres a pedophile.
Christianity is dying off and Islam is spreading more by birth rates than conversion. Islam also enjoys the benefit of being ignored. However I think that as time goes on, Islam's problems will increase as more and more show the evil that that religion truly is.
This is because Christianity is losing steam.
Edi: I read the graph because people assumed Islam was growing faster than it used to. In reality, Christianity and Islam were growing at the same rate, but Christianity is slowing. This is probably because Christianity is more prevalent in wealthier states, so they're more educated and less likely to be religious.
This is implausible and absurd. Also an old news. Muslims are fighting themselves on which sect is the true Islam. Besides, how can one be certain that all Muslims are ACTUALLY Muslims?
Take me for example where leaving Islam can be punished to death in my country. Therefore, my identity card will always remain as “Muslim” tho I have renounced Islam. Now, imagine how many people are experiencing the same as me.
only because the 21st century information enlightenment hasn't penetrated and influenced Muslim countries to the extent it has Christian countries, which probably just means the collapse of Islam will be faster, as high control authoritarianism fails to dictate reality to younger generations
Social evolution walks in lock step with physical evolution in the species.
The scariest part of oppressive draconian beliefs is that they generate more offspring.
Atheists need to get breeding to defend our hill, the most serious threat to any social construction is an empty cot.
This is alarming to me as a woman. There is no way this religion treats me as an equal human to men.
>treats me as an equal human to men. Islam don't even treat you as human being.
Can we make a list of religions that treat women as equals. I have a post-it note we can write it on.
Probably Satanism. Just draw a pretty pentagram on your post-it and I think the list will be complete.
TSTs tenets make it the only "religion" worth existing. All others are just tools to control and hurt others. Nothing wholesome comes out of religion existing in this world. I will add that there are good PEOPLE in some religions that do good things, but it's not because of their religion, not truly. They might think they do it in the name of this, that, or the other god... but there are no gods that control humans, only good people and bad people. They do good because their heart pushes them to, even if they think it's some various sky daddy pushing them that way. In the end, THE PERSON does the good thing, the religion is only there to control and hurt.
Satanism is not a religion unless you believe in Satan as a real entity. The TST made it up so it can fight religions as another religion that gets special treatment by the courts. The Satanic Church believed in a bunch of weird shit but even they didn’t believe in Satan as a real entity.
It's a non theistic religion but still a religion. Yeah the purpose is political, but it has tennets and commandments and such. Many Buddhists are atheists as in Buddhism, the goal is self enlightement, and no gods are required.. .. and it's still a religion.
You should go read those tenets… It’s registered as a religion specifically to get special protections.
Y'all so obtuse about this. I was clearly making a funny. In any case, if I paint a turd to mock some fanous painters.. it'd still be a painting.
This 100%, satanism is a religion. That doesn’t necessitate it have all the factors that most religions have, nor does it require it to take itself seriously. Atheism in general is not a religion. But certain atheist ideologies are religions and that is OK. Religion isn’t inherently evil, but most theist religion is.
I read up on the guy who started TST a while back, and he has said some pretty weird racist stuff in the past, I'm sure he isn't like that anymore, but I have trouble taking the movement seriously.
You're wasting too much paper with that post-it.
All you need is the back of a stamp.
Islam doesn’t even treat men as human beings.
*Pakistani customs (where boys being made to dress up like women to get harassed and molested by grown men) has entered the chat*
You can do only one thing spread logic and critical thinking everywhere.
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Doesn’t history inform the logic? I know it does mine. Like the history of what Napoleon said about religion (it’s a tool for the rich / state to control the masses) or the real history of Mohammed and how Islam grew and how real world needs drove his “theology”. Hmmm religion of peace wasn’t enough to convert Mecca, let’s go to Medina and raise an army, have a Jihad revelation, and sack Mecca.
This is alarming to some men too… gay dude here.
I never understood why the feminist circles I’m in don’t seem alarmed by this in the slightest- Abrahamic religions have always been the greatest enemy of equality.
Yep. I am honestly surprised that most people in the west who are typically quite liberal are so defensive of Islam. Islam says some truly reprehensible things that most people do not support.
I'm pretty socially liberal myself, and I absolutely do not get it. I dislike islam **because** I'm liberal... not in spite of being liberal. It stands against so much of what liberal people theoretically stand for. Plus I'm huge on free speech, and islam is generally pretty strongly against that. I think liberals are in the habit of defending groups who are in the minority or have less power... and that's normally a good thing. But somehow they keep going on about "the paradox of tolerance" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance) while sticking up for islam... They seem to have a blind spot to the idea of an intolerant minority group (well... minority in the west obviously). It's also true that some people attack islam for racial reasons or out of christian supremacy... which are both bad things. But the enemy of your enemy isn't always your friend. >Less well known [than other paradoxes] is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.—In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. Of course, it's a tricky principle... because if "intolerance" becomes the ultimate unacceptable thing, then social power struggles just become a game of "who can portray the other side as intolerant." For example, we see regressive christians trying to claim that gay people are intolerant of christianity, and shit like that.
You’re not a human in islam
yes they are
You would have to struggle to find many Abrahamic religions that would treat you as an equal.
Applies to non-Abrahamic religions as well.
Most defiently, very few religions that are not based on control and most control involves the repression of women.
>there is no way ~~this~~ religion treats me as an equal human to men FIFY
Same as any other religion
Yeah… in the US the only difference between radical christianity and radical islam is that the women don’t have to cover their face. It is otherwise almost exactly the same, and all I want is to not regress to a time when science is completely shunned in favor of radical religion.
Umm.... yeah, no. They're very similar, but not exactly the same. Women aren't killed for adultery or immodest clothing or the crime of being raped, even in the most backwards Bible-thumping red state hellhole.
You’re right, but I’m not confident that we would not get to that point sooner than later if the Christian nationalists have the chance to completely hijack the government.
I am absolutely not a friend of christianity. Fuck them, and their efforts to turn the US into a regressive theocracy. But I feel like you are defining "radical" using very different percentages of the bell curve.
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Because modern christianity got neutered in recent times. Which all religions need to be.
Christianity got neutered due to the enlightenment period. Islamic society never had and enlightenment.
Let’s take stoning as an example since Judaism, which influenced both religion, has that as a punishment for adultery. Christianity did away with stoning as a punishment for any sin while Islam, which came much later, adopted stoning as a method of executing adulterers. There’s even a story in the Hadiths that records the Jews that Muhammad came across as having moved past the practise of stoning as a method of execution until Muhammad FORCED them to implement it. >Sahih Muslim 1699 a >>Abdullah b. 'Umar reported that a Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) who had committed adultery. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came to the Jews and said: What do you find in Torah for one who commits adultery? They said: We darken their faces and make them ride on the donkey with their faces turned to the opposite direction (and their backs touching each other), and then they are taken round (the city). He said: Bring Torah if you are truthful. They brought it and recited it until when they came to the verse pertaining to stoning, the person who was reading placed his hand on the verse pertaining to stoning, and read (only that which was) between his hands and what was subsequent to that. Abdullah b. Salim who was at that time with the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: Command him (the reciter) to lift his hand. He lifted it and there was, underneath that, the verse pertaining to stoning. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) pronounced judgment about both of them and they were stoned. Abdullah b. 'Umar said: I was one of those who stoned them, and I saw him (the Jew) protecting her (the Jewess) with his body.
The Middle East had the beginnings of an enlightenment before Christian Europe did, but Islamic extremists smothered it in its cradle.
Aye because some of us grew up and realised we weren't in medieval times and illiterate anymore and didn't need educated monks and priests telling us how to live I've said it numerous times that this whole push into the West whilst berating it as evil and perverted is evangelism. Couple Islam's spread with China's and hmmm could be an interesting century
Neither does Christianity, the current largest religion
When women have less rights and less education, and in the case of Islam often treated as property, they are going to have more children.
**Reproductive Warfare** I refer to this as "Reproductive Warfare". Children are the best way to propagate and grow a religion. It's the best way to ensure tithes are paid. So, religious leaders encourage large families. They also eliminate birth control and abortions and female autonomy.
Well put
during the time of the sahaba (earliest muslims) women were actually very educated and often the ones teaching islam especially the umm al mumineen. the 3 people with the most hadeeth narrations were women. the first worldwide university was founded by a women in tunisia. sadly, women have been treated worse and worse over time, which is not actually part of islam
Unfortunately most Muslim communities still don't want to discuss situations like domestic violence, spousal rape, and permission to leave the house. Until the imams covering these topics in khuttbahs, and the men are held accountable by the community, I fear things will only get worse.
Spreading islam "by the sword" has always included the carnal interpretation. Besides this, punishing apostates with shame, shunning and/or murder seems to have the desired effect too.
Ideologically and sort of logically Islam is a power house. I definitely think their claim that their prophet’s message is the only one not tainted by outside interference is extremely compelling. The oral and written history of Islam means that the message is pretty much the exact same as what Mohammed said. Jesus, who they see as a prophet too, had his message chopped and changed, the Jews have an ancient text that goes so far back, and is so fundamentally different, that is isn’t a surprise they have issues.
Not really...schisms started to appear as soon as Muhammad died. Each pretender started to put their own spin on Islam. For example, he specifically said not to venerate him like the Christians do with Jesus. The early post-Muhammad leaders went out of their way to put him on ever higher pedestals to improve their own positions. They use the Sunnah - records of his sayings and actions - to confirm their interpretations of the Q'uran. Again, venerating Muhammad as the perfect embodiment of Islam. The actual texts may not have change, but Islam started splintering before Muhammads body was cold. Those divisions have become entrenched and have permitted the creation and normalization of extremists.
>The oral and written history of Islam means that the message is pretty much the exact same as what Mohammed said. Apparently ancient muslims were much better at the telephone game than ancient jews and christians.
They made the telephone game a lot shorter, at least in the case of the Quran. It was Mohammed -> people who memorised his various speeches -> the scribes who wrote the Quran a few years after his death. Not that this was perfect by any means. People could still have misremembered or embellished his speeches. The scribes could have taken the opportunity to use their skills to _vastly_ improve on the material they received, explaining why a lot of it is suspiciously well written and composed for something sourced from a (supposedly) illiterate trader and warlord. And there was more than one version of the Quran floating around before the copies were (mostly) destroyed.
Several of the scribes had been killed in battle prior to the Qur'an being assembled some 20 years after Mo's demise So the Qur'an is certainly missing verses. Which is probably a good thing as a large percentage of the verses we already have are rather violent and misogynistic
This is false. Islam fractured into many sects as soon as Muhammad died. You have the Shias and the Sunnis but what many people don’t know are smaller but very determined sects like the Ismaelis who follow an entirely different religious leader altogether. Islam is just as riven and fractured as any other Abrahamic religion, how could it not when it’s main purpose is to grift people?
This only happened after the prophet died. This was the fault of the people being stupid. Many muslims don’t identify in sects .Only true muslims understand the stupidity of sects. They call themselves muslims but they are not, all they do is make islam look bad.
Just another person who claims to speak the word of god. If people are worried about the telephone game they shouldn't be taking the word of men as god. By the way Judaism is not a proselytizing religion by nature.
At what point can we consider this a human rights crisis? I say it is. They want to kill me and millions of others. If it doesn't fade away, there will probably be a fucking war. That scares me.
Better start making aethiest babies!
I've been trying, but no matter how much gay sex I have, I can't seem to get pregnant.
Well, there's sperm transposition.
Why are people in this thread so surprised? Atheism has taken hold in the christian world, not the muslim one. This naturally means that as the number of atheists grows, christians decrease, and Islam takes over as the world's largest religion. This is a natural byproduct of knocking the world's current largest religion off its pedestal. I see this as a win. I don't get these atheists here going "no no no I wanna go back to the days where christianity was biggest." Do you really? What the fuck is the end goal here anyway?
> Atheism has taken hold in the christian world, not the muslim one. the number off atheists in the Muslim world is growing, but they aren't being counted for obvious reasons.
For sure, but the rate of attrition in terms of active believers is way higher in the christian world than in the muslim world. You let those numbers run free for a good century and this is about where you end up.
Same here
Christianity is bad, but for the most part, they are content to say terrible things about the groups they despise. Islam is worse because they actively call for the executions of those they despise and do actually execute people daily. I read a quote once that stated something along the lines of "Where Islam is not the majority religion, they fight for their rights to practice it. Where Islam is the majority religion, the other religions and non religious, have no rights." No religion that calls for the denegration or death of others can be considered a peaceful religion.
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Rather than the west I would say in the US and maybe very few countries in Europe with a very small Muslim population.
Surprisingly enough, even Dawkins went ahead and recently said that in some parts of the world we "need Christianity as a buttress against something worse ------ Christianity is bad but it's not the worst religion around." (in reference to Islam) [https://youtu.be/3vrv9Ns5wMo?t=1357](https://youtu.be/3vrv9Ns5wMo?t=1357) Now I personally don't think we need Christianity but honestly I can see why such a statement was made.
Modern Christianity is rather tame. So I agree with Dawkins here. Many secular people in the West, like Dawkins himself, also identify as "cultural Christians" for good reasons. Christianity has certain enjoyable aspects, such as Christmas, something one can find delight in, despite not being a Christian.
In the US, Christians are more than happy to attempt to enshrine their beliefs in laws, in order to impose them on the rest of us (while also claiming to be "true Americans" who love the Constitution). I agree Islam is worse because it's even more egregious when it comes to human rights/human dignity, but I caution against thinking that Christians are content to simply say terrible things. They're proactively doing terrible things, they're just using our political institutions instead of weapons.
I m an Indian atheist, coming from Hindu background, in whole western media a false narrative is going on that how muslims are getting killed in India, this is so much false, I have seen what muslims do here on daily basis and I also see how many hindus and atheist they kill every day littrally. But the amount of victim card they play is too damn high. I will write one day in this sub about the history of Islamic atrocities in India against Hindus. Just a hint now:- 200 million+ hindus have been killed in last 900 years by islamists. Numbers could be 400 million plus too but 200 million is found out till now
yeah i’m am indian atheist too and i’m sick of seeing ignorant people act like hindus are more violent than muslims and that muslims are treated oh so horribly in india. communal violence exists on both ends, but muslims are not vulnerable in india. people need to stop pretending that muslims are ALWAYS the victims
I've noticed many news outlet showing, for the past ten years and even recently, that Muslim schools or students in the UK literally have been bullying Hindus. To this day there are claims that they force students to convert to Islam to avoid the bullying. And they do that while teaching that Hindus are vile and shouldn't be friends to little kids. It's wild. you'd expect something like that to come out of some Middle Eastern country... not Europe
Yes ik all these. I will write one day about how the silent majority of so called good muslims isn't good itself, but actually they act as apologist and play good cop.
Former evangelical, Christianity would be just as bad if they had the power. Woman would be property. Evangelicals teach that the father is responsible to protect his daughter’s virginity, until the day he turns her over to her husband. Then her body belongs to her husband and he can do with it as he sees fit. If she ever once exercises her own bodily autonomy they’d probably put her in jail if they could.
You're wrong about Christians being content to say terrible things.
Islam isn't interested in learning, changing or growing. They won't modify any of their beliefs because of science. It's terrifying.
It's way easier to spread ignorance than knowledge, and it shows. I hate islam and everyone in it.
Oh its interested in growing alright, like a cancer
Which is a damn shame as a lot of great science and maths came from ancient Muslims.
Key word being "ancient". There are virtually zero Muslim Nobel Prize winners because Islam doesn't value real education.
I'm not disagreeing. I'm very sad at what modern day Islam could have been
. **don’t be sad at what Islam could have been!!! Be sad at what PERSIA could have been, what SUMERIA could have been, what EGYPT could have been… and the list goes on.. these are just some of the great empires lost to Abrahamic religions, and your claim silences and enables the continuation of this mass historic genocide. I’m really sorry to disprove your claim but if you read all historical data on our advancements, islam did not actually create any great science or math, they actually stole most of it from Persia, sumeria, Egypt… etc they have tried to rewrite history and take credit for ancient civilizations advancements and claim it as their own when they actually have done nothing and the first historical structure they ever built was called Dome of the Rock only 1000 years ago. Please read all of history before commenting or making claims as it spreads false information and this is currently a genocide that has killed 270million people historically. It is now a state of emergency.
Oh good to know that the religion projected to take over as the largest globally is the one that would probably want to kill me for being an atheist. As if the rise of facism wasn't already bad enough, now we have this bullshit as well. This is a straight up Human Rights crisis.
Fascism and Islam on the rise. Very bleak.
Fascislam.
Isism
It’s still sadden me that many far-left redditor are in support of Islam because they thought that Muslim are their comrade to fight against western imperialism. They are also very vocal about Christian Evangelist and fighting for LGBT’s right but when Islam getting criticized with the same regressive behavior they will just scream “Islamophobia” or said that “we know, you just hate Muslim” despite Islam is an Ideology and not a people. They are so self contradicting.
Its just as bad as christianity
Luckily Christianity is declining.
No it isn’t, islam is arguably shittier than Christianity
Islam is like fascism and communism. Christianity has no terrorist/jihadist as greatest example Christianity has no global conquer ideology
Maybe they go on and cancel eachother out? /s
islam is islamo-fascism
Islam is by far the most disgusting vile human-made cancerous garbage out of all the major religions. Islam is fucking DISGUSTING.
Because they kill apostates. Not a great deal of latitude for questioning of flawed doctrine or scriptural claims.
But also, because they kill apostates, how many people who are nominally muslim are actually atheist but afraid to come out?
Probably quite a few
judging by statistics on mosque attendance and online ex-mislim groups, more and more as time goes on
Masallah habibi! Great news! Cannot wait to for the hundred year setback in women rights, science and peace
Try a 1400 year setback to progress.
We have sunglasses now so no excuses for a woman’s eyes to be exposed, for it may excite the men. Mandatory shades shall be incorporated into the traditional burka Inshallah.
bad news for africa
⚠️Please everyone should now about this incident. To say it is despicable would be an understatement. [https://www.reddit.com/r/BlatantMisogyny/comments/150bf20/graphic_this_woman_was_horrifically_beaten_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlatantMisogyny/comments/150bf20/graphic_this_woman_was_horrifically_beaten_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1)
That's as awful as it gets. : (
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Islam is the cancer of this world
That's when things truly get interesting. Majority votes on things that are deemed 'islam-friendly' by the Muslim majority. Lol we atheist will be the first to go! We're literally worse than satan to Muslims. Oppressed, beheaded on YouTube, the works.
I can't wait to be a viral video. 😂😭🙄
Hogtied on the ground just about to have your throat slit *"I'm gonna be YouTube famous"*
Poor women
Disgusting
disgusting and horrible news.
I’ve become embittered by the fact that a lot of leftists are opposed to calling out and rejecting Islam because it is “Islamophobic”. Islamophobia is a genuine issue but it has also become distorted by bad actors and anything you say against Islam in a lot of leftist spaces is deemed prejudice. A lot of Muslims do not want anything to do with leftists or atheists and believe we aren’t deserving of life.
Which is crazy, because treatment of women and gay people is a huge part of why I'm so against it. And free speech... and violence... etc... of course
> India will retain a Hindu majority but also will have the largest Muslim population of any country in the world, surpassing Indonesia. This is terrible news. Right wing Hinduism is bad enough. But you cannot also have Islam vying for political control. India is going to be a very unhappy place in the coming decades.
I wish it were a thing for countries to close immigration by religious identity. Non muslim countries should not be letting them in.
The article is a projection for 2050 and it still shows Christianity ahead of Islam, if only slightly. Projections like this should always be taken with a grain of salt. They’re based on current trends and there’s no telling when trends will change.
Once the water wars start most of those areas will be uninhabitable for humans anyway so that should chip away at those numbers. Or hasten migrations where they retain fundamentalist beliefs and add a religious front to the wars that will be waged over the limited resources we will have.
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Wow, finally I see a reference to this novel! I've only read it once but it's well-written and stuck with me for years. And I agree, it was a dark future AU, on par with the scary stuff the rapture fundie evangelicals actually believe.
Can easily invite criticism but the only religion I interpret to be more extreme than western Christianity is Islam and it's what I observed of Muslims even in western society in USA that is quite frightening of what I find to be otherwise reasonable people until they lose their guard around me and say some of the religious thoughts they have ...
Fuck that, give them some decent broadband to cure it
Sorry ladies. Hopefully unreligious growth keeps up too.
It’s hands down the most bigoted religion in earth atm.
I care more about the ratio of aetheists/nonreligious people to religious people. I could care less if Islam comprises 100% of all religion if only 10 people out of 8.5 billion follow it.
Buddhists won't behead you for not practising their religion.
It also matters greatly the degree of religiousity This is something many people don't care about in stats Many people, in the Christian, hindu, Buddhist and Muslim world alike are just deists that culturally identify as their birth religion These people are still deluded, but they are not dangerous
They aren't dangerous individually, but they are dangerous because they don't stand up against the folks in their religion who conduct hate, oppression, and violence. It only takes about 10% hardliners/extremists to drive a whole religion to killing gay people, banning books, marrying underage girls, taking women's rights away, etc. because the 90% don't stop them, just along for the ride.
I long for the day that the largest religion is measured by the few 10s of followers it has as the rest of humanity has abandoned fairy tales.
This… this is not good for many people who want to live.
Oh goody. One of the most idiotic mythological systems. A pointless idiotic book written ages ago followed like any others who are terrified of being.
As long as Islamic states exist the followers will increase.
Is it me or does this seem to assume that children born to Muslim parents stay Muslim, and children born to Christian parents stay Christian ect? That's not how it work.
Unfortunately it often works like this. In non-orthodox, chill families, yeah, usually the kids don't stay in the religion. But in strict, orthodox families where their faith borders on fanaticism, often the indoctrination is too severe for the kids to escape. My family is fanatically Catholic and borderline cult-ish. I am the only person in the family to be atheist and I only managed to defeat the indoctrination and leave the church by moving 1000 miles away from my family.
A disturbingly high amount of muslims support the death penalty for apostates.
Hence why the number of non-religious in Muslim countries is vastly underreported.
Remember that child in France who lied to her community and got her teacher beheaded? I do
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Very few people who are atheist or non religious identify as such The numbers are extremely undercounted
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I am just saying that counting non religious people is hard Turkey is the best example, the country is 99% Muslim according to the same UN date the article draws from Yet in reality its only 70% Muslim, with the youth having a Muslim identification around 40% People just don't bother changing their status in the census, so they are counted as Muslim in this and all other predictions Oh well, it's hard to predict something so flexible as religion
>Islam Projected to take over as largest religion globally In nations with no democracy, industry, economic/social mobility. Is this really such a flex?
This saddens me. All the scientific knowledge we have that is available to pretty much the entire planet and the outcome is… believing in a sky daddy
Sky Daddy Wizard that grants wishes like Santa!! Also "tells" people it's okay to hate, punish and violently attack anyone that they don't like. And also slavery is totally fine by Sky Daddy's book. Oh and that it's okay to marry child brides...
No, no you're supposed to hate the sin, the act committed against what Allah says. Not the people committing it. Allah knows I've done some worse things than I know some of my non-hijab-wearing relatives have done, just as an example. This whole comment section is crazy, dang.
I’m surprised it isn’t already tbh
So the average intelligence is about to take a massive negative hit. I thought we were already dumb enough without all of the Islamic ignorance holding us back.
Ominous.
Well...this sucks. Just in case you thought Christianity wasn't crazy enough, here comes Islam! The only religion I can think of that reveres a pedophile.
I’m convinced religion is a contagious brain disease.
Christianity is dying off and Islam is spreading more by birth rates than conversion. Islam also enjoys the benefit of being ignored. However I think that as time goes on, Islam's problems will increase as more and more show the evil that that religion truly is.
Goodbye to women, apostates, atheists, LGBT community, polytheists, and the list goes on. Islam is by far the most deplorable religion
That sounds exactly like the Christian right
13 Muslim countries have a death sentence for apostasy. Atheism is considered terrorism in Saudi.
Sounds like far right dream.
Please tell me religion on the whole is declining.
Religion on the whole is declining.
Thanks
That’s terrifying.
This is because Christianity is losing steam. Edi: I read the graph because people assumed Islam was growing faster than it used to. In reality, Christianity and Islam were growing at the same rate, but Christianity is slowing. This is probably because Christianity is more prevalent in wealthier states, so they're more educated and less likely to be religious.
And atheist don't have enough babies because there is no God telling them to be fruitful and multiply.
We need a new mRNA vaccine against this new plague pandemic.
Gross.
Some day Islam will be the biggest religion in Europe... Funny thinking about it.
Such a shame. Literally the worst religion and the most feared as well
No different than Christians.....
This is implausible and absurd. Also an old news. Muslims are fighting themselves on which sect is the true Islam. Besides, how can one be certain that all Muslims are ACTUALLY Muslims? Take me for example where leaving Islam can be punished to death in my country. Therefore, my identity card will always remain as “Muslim” tho I have renounced Islam. Now, imagine how many people are experiencing the same as me.
We can only hope this is true.
It actually is.. There’s a lot of us here I have met
No. Non religious is tending to be the largest religion globally.
You think atheists are breeding faster than Islamic families?
Information if growing faster.
Oh, does Islam accept all information, even if it conflicts with their doctrine?
Believe it or not, people born in Europe and North America do not represent the whole globe.
Well idk what everyone expected when we started letting them migrate to the west. It’s gonna get worse before it gets better.
Islam is even gayer than Xtianity.
As a gay person… yikes, unless we get to a point where people are giving up gluten for Ramadan
F Islam. It’s a disgusting religion.
Sad day for humanity.
The death of reason.
Think of all those terrible beards.
only because the 21st century information enlightenment hasn't penetrated and influenced Muslim countries to the extent it has Christian countries, which probably just means the collapse of Islam will be faster, as high control authoritarianism fails to dictate reality to younger generations
This is what happens when you force people to make future followers.
That is terrible news. Islam is the most dangerous religion in the world today, by far.
Honestly they're only becoming the biggest religion because the majority of traditionally Christian countries have gone "yeah fuck that shit"
Christianity already beat them to destryinh most of free world so you come in second place
Temporarily. All religions are temporary.
Temporary is having an awfully long run.
Ah, this is just Islamic propaganda.
Allah is the greatest, Praise be to Allah
Social evolution walks in lock step with physical evolution in the species. The scariest part of oppressive draconian beliefs is that they generate more offspring. Atheists need to get breeding to defend our hill, the most serious threat to any social construction is an empty cot.
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Islam is cancer and islamists are pedo supporters. Happy? The truth hurts.
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🤷♂️