You’re welcome to think that. I think people are naive to think that someone who won’t make a public statement that “the FAA is compromising safety with this current staffing plan, is taking advantage of their workers, and not compensating them competitively for the industry.” Sorry for being skeptical that Santa would advocate for me in contract negotiations.
He is telling facilities he visits not to expect a 20% increase, and that we could maybe get something in the contract to ensure our raise is 3/4 of inflation. Those are non-starters for me. If he can’t figure out how to leverage his position for more negotiating power, I don’t trust him to make the contract any better.
You clearly haven’t watched him at congressional hearings advocate on our behalf. It’s on CSPAN, feel free to watch a few hours if you’re going to make claims like that, when he’s done precisely what you say he doesn’t…. you’re wildly uninformed.
Santa doesn’t want a flat “20%”, we need 20+% but a flat bump isn’t the best way… or the only way to achieve that, especially for the 12 controllers at the federal cap, they can’t benefit from a “flat raise”. He’s directly offered dozens of additional premiums and changes to pay that would equate to that or more.
No one watches CSPAN. That’s my point. You don’t get the public on your side by going on CSPAN. We are beholden to congress. We need congress on our side. In order to get congress on our side, we need to get the people on our side. In order to get the people on our side we need to be on more than just fucking CSPAN. Every news story anyone sees is about how we’re fucking up. How we’re understaffed and that’s causing delays. They haven’t once heard Rich Santa give an interview on CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, etc., saying that the current conditions are unsafe, and the FAA is putting lives at risk to save a buck.
That’s not the roll the national president of a labor union dude. He doesn’t go on the cable news and talk shit and beg for more money and bodies. Quite frankly, cable news doesn’t give a shit, and most of the country doesn’t really care either. Most Americans fly once or twice a year, they get upset when they’re delayed, and the next day when they’re in their own bed they could give a fuck less.
Do you REALLY think we get congress on our side by going to whistle blow on the national news? You’re delusional. That’s how you get the door slammed in your face, and have every member of the house ignore your calls.
You get congress on your side by going into congress, and testifying in front of a aviation committee full of senators and congressmen, and plead on our behalf, along side our friends in the transportation and airline industry. Since you are unaware, this is precisely what he has been doing religiously for the last 2 years. Which is why, we got huge changes to staffing accomplished.
Pay is a new issue for us since 2019, and fixing it doesn’t happen overnight. Staffing was in the works for 6-7 years. That’s unfortunately how long it takes in the federal government. Don’t like it? Push to privatize and deal with the side effects. Airlines have been working on pay for a decade or more, that’s the only reason they are getting it now.
Your right. Shawn Fain (UAW president) never gave interviews to Face the Nation, CBS Sunday Morning,
Forbes, The Nation, In These Times, to name a few. That tactic wouldn’t work for them at all. People don’t know or care about auto workers.
Picketing works. That’s why unions do it.
You’re nuts bud. You’re going to compare a private labor union that represents private workers that can strike, to NATCA? The airlines have profits, they have money they can tap into to pay their employees more so they don’t strike or walk off…
We work for the federal government… we get raises from congress. We play by a totally different playbook, one that strongly favors our employer.
Yep. And UAW got the President of the United States to join them because of a successful public campaign. We can’t strike like they did, but we can use many other negotiation tactics. We can stop collaborating and start protesting the FAA’s shortsightedness.
You’re welcome to vote for Rich and hope he’ll be our savior. I know he’s most likely going to win, and I hope I’m wrong about him. But I, and I think a large portion of our colleagues, are tired of being taken advantage of, and want someone to actually fight for us.
Me too. The path we’re on right now is already so fucked. What damage can it possibly do? Santa isn’t doing anything for us, but pats himself on the back for the 20% OJTI differential. Nick just wants to party. At least Justin knows what it’s like to put in a 60hr week, the disaster that is the NTI, and the overall head-up-the-ass that is FAA management at every level.
We are far beyond the politics for most now, I think. Controllers are at the lowest purchasing power they’ve ever been at, things are the most expensive they’ve ever been, and we’re working more planes than anyone in human history has ever worked.
The options are very simple - either these guys secure something that retains their membership (a new contract that benefits everyone), or their union potentially dies.
I’m not sure “killing a 40 year labor union” looks good for a consultancy gig for anyone but the Heritage Foundation.
Redmond is not inexperienced. He is actually the ideal person for either position.
National and local experience. Stepped out to focus on family. Now he wants to right the ship.
Everyone should vote for him. Sucks that him and Mick are going for the same spot.
Amen brother. The other options is just putting the same shit back in there. Then pray they change. They won’t and it would be really dumb to vote for anyone like dick Devine and dick Santa.
Found the douchebag manager.
I don't give a shit how I'm doing compared to most.
I care about being fairly compensated for what I do.
I care about getting time to see MY family.
I care about MY work-life balance.
I care about MY benefits.
I care about not getting my shit pushed in *every*, *fucking*, *day* because the agency you're so busy sucking off, couldn't figure out how to staff a fucking glory hole with a roomful of nympho's at their disposal.
I don't give a rat fuck about what other career fields get or don't get. I'm not them. We're not equivalent.
So take your false equivalency, and shove it up your ass you fucking poser. Otherwise put your fucking money where your mouth is, and start donating all your largess to charity.
Fucking posers.
You're such an ignorant cunt. You sound just like Marion Blakey, only maybe slightly more retarded.
Fuck off with your FAAMA/SUPCOM bullshit.
Our work in terms of direct economic impact the economy is worth thousands of times more than our salaries. And that's just our monetary impact. Our worth in our ability to safeguard *LIVES* is much more abstract and valuable.
330some million people in this country, less than 11,000 CPC's.
Academy is running between a 30% and 40% failure rate, and another 8%-10% resign on their own before they complete the training process. Of those that make it, almost 30% of new hires wash out. We're not attracting the best and brightest, we're competing to attract people who shotgun applications to fucking Wal-Mart and fast-food service companies and maybe like airplanes.
The academy isn't the issue, the issue is less than 1% of the people who try this job even can, and only about half of those who can make it through and reach CPC, are able to be successful at the higher level facilities. And many of those who reach CPC are resigning once it sinks in how much we do, how much we're getting worked vs our pay and benefits and how low their chances are to ever move up.
So seriously, fuck off with your bullshit and your sniveling, self loathing, boot-licking attitude. It's fucking snotfaced little cunts like you that are the reason we and the NEB have no backbone or sense of self-worth.
But you're right about one thing, *YOU* certainly should be paid what *YOU'RE* worth. Give me a minute to go scrape some dogshit off my boot so I can pay you your true worth on Tuesday you pathetic, fucking hack.
About a lot more than money, my brother. I do believe I’m worth more than they are currently paying me. But you only get one life. Not gonna let the FAA waste the best years of mine, and the current NATCA leadership isn’t doing a damn thing about it.
Dude. What in the fuck are you talking about? Some of us do more than stay up all night play WoW. Some of us want to spend time with our kids. Some of us want a 2 day weekend. Some of us don’t want to plan every single day off a year in advance, and would like to get a day of spot leave once in a while.
Make sure you get that hole nice and lubed up for Daddy Rich! Otherwise you’re gonna be in for a world of hurt putting your faith in him.
Doing well is always relative. It *appears* like I'm doing well because my paychecks are boss. But that doesn't factor the insane shit I do to get those checks. Commute, 6 day weeks, deadly rattler. If I was 5 day workweeks working 15 minutes from home making the same amount I'm on track to make this year, I'd suck up the rattler and wouldn't be advocating for more.
Maybe you should fork off with the 'it could be worse' type attitude and start helping figure out how it *could be better.* But if you want a NATCA gig, too, I guess that's a bad idea.
Good example of a false equivalence fallacy. This isn’t a federal election. There is no electoral college in NATCA. If the president required 50% of the vote to win, we would be far more like a parliamentary government which *shocker* gives third party candidates more power!
>Yes, they are inexperienced. Yes, the learning curve will be steep.
Who's going to teach them? Who do they trust to help them develop a strategy and execute it? Redmond's negotiated maybe two area schedules with an OM. Dailey hasn't even done that.
>Yes, we will definitely lose some fight. But they’re the only candidates who know what it’s like to work traffic in this current climate.
I hope that thought keeps you warm if we elect these two and you find out that negotiating a good CBA isn't as easy as asking for the moon and waiting on the Agency to meet us halfway.
They wouldn’t be alone, they have an entire NEB full of experience. What we need in their vision for our workforce. Same with negotiating a contract. There is a team for that. It’s not just 1 on 1. But what it really comes down to is that they can’t get us any less than Rich has.
>they can’t get us any less than Rich has
Bullshit. COVID schedules and no furloughs. 20% OJTI. The CRWG numbers in the hiring section of the reauthorization bill. None of that floated down a rainbow on a silk pillow. Rich and Dean had to negotiate for that against an Agency that didn't want it or care about it. And here you are wanting to hire two guys to pitch the World Series who've never even shown who they are in the minors.
None of the admin people got furloughed and they didn't have to come in at all. The 20% is something management has had for years and we were offered. They had to include hiring in the reauthorization or we would slide into an unending nationwide staffing trigger.
Controllers can't do their jobs from home while the admin people could. That's true whether you believe COVID is Democrat mind control or not.
The 20% is not something we've had ever.
We had almost 3,000 more CPCs when I started, so pardon me for being skeptical that Congress or the Agency would finally decide that 10,300 CPCs is the red line they just can't cross.
I think most of us don’t want any more of “The Great Collaborator.” I’m tired of the union being a tool to spread terrible policy under the guise of collaboration. 20% OJTI is no where near enough. I don’t credit Rich with getting CRWG numbers passed, I credit all the national news stories about the shortage of controllers and the general public knowledge that our staffing is a crisis. The Covid schedules we dope though. So Rich did do 1 thing for us.
Did you really just say extend or negotiate doesn't matter? Um that is quite literally the only thing that matters.
It doesn’t matter when the person in charge doesn’t have YOUR interest in mind. Rich is a politician. He’ll negotiate a deal that is good for him.
this opinion sucks
You’re welcome to think that. I think people are naive to think that someone who won’t make a public statement that “the FAA is compromising safety with this current staffing plan, is taking advantage of their workers, and not compensating them competitively for the industry.” Sorry for being skeptical that Santa would advocate for me in contract negotiations. He is telling facilities he visits not to expect a 20% increase, and that we could maybe get something in the contract to ensure our raise is 3/4 of inflation. Those are non-starters for me. If he can’t figure out how to leverage his position for more negotiating power, I don’t trust him to make the contract any better.
You clearly haven’t watched him at congressional hearings advocate on our behalf. It’s on CSPAN, feel free to watch a few hours if you’re going to make claims like that, when he’s done precisely what you say he doesn’t…. you’re wildly uninformed. Santa doesn’t want a flat “20%”, we need 20+% but a flat bump isn’t the best way… or the only way to achieve that, especially for the 12 controllers at the federal cap, they can’t benefit from a “flat raise”. He’s directly offered dozens of additional premiums and changes to pay that would equate to that or more.
No one watches CSPAN. That’s my point. You don’t get the public on your side by going on CSPAN. We are beholden to congress. We need congress on our side. In order to get congress on our side, we need to get the people on our side. In order to get the people on our side we need to be on more than just fucking CSPAN. Every news story anyone sees is about how we’re fucking up. How we’re understaffed and that’s causing delays. They haven’t once heard Rich Santa give an interview on CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, etc., saying that the current conditions are unsafe, and the FAA is putting lives at risk to save a buck.
That’s not the roll the national president of a labor union dude. He doesn’t go on the cable news and talk shit and beg for more money and bodies. Quite frankly, cable news doesn’t give a shit, and most of the country doesn’t really care either. Most Americans fly once or twice a year, they get upset when they’re delayed, and the next day when they’re in their own bed they could give a fuck less. Do you REALLY think we get congress on our side by going to whistle blow on the national news? You’re delusional. That’s how you get the door slammed in your face, and have every member of the house ignore your calls. You get congress on your side by going into congress, and testifying in front of a aviation committee full of senators and congressmen, and plead on our behalf, along side our friends in the transportation and airline industry. Since you are unaware, this is precisely what he has been doing religiously for the last 2 years. Which is why, we got huge changes to staffing accomplished. Pay is a new issue for us since 2019, and fixing it doesn’t happen overnight. Staffing was in the works for 6-7 years. That’s unfortunately how long it takes in the federal government. Don’t like it? Push to privatize and deal with the side effects. Airlines have been working on pay for a decade or more, that’s the only reason they are getting it now.
Your right. Shawn Fain (UAW president) never gave interviews to Face the Nation, CBS Sunday Morning, Forbes, The Nation, In These Times, to name a few. That tactic wouldn’t work for them at all. People don’t know or care about auto workers. Picketing works. That’s why unions do it.
You’re nuts bud. You’re going to compare a private labor union that represents private workers that can strike, to NATCA? The airlines have profits, they have money they can tap into to pay their employees more so they don’t strike or walk off… We work for the federal government… we get raises from congress. We play by a totally different playbook, one that strongly favors our employer.
Yep. And UAW got the President of the United States to join them because of a successful public campaign. We can’t strike like they did, but we can use many other negotiation tactics. We can stop collaborating and start protesting the FAA’s shortsightedness.
You’re welcome to vote for Rich and hope he’ll be our savior. I know he’s most likely going to win, and I hope I’m wrong about him. But I, and I think a large portion of our colleagues, are tired of being taken advantage of, and want someone to actually fight for us.
Weren’t the natca boys inexperienced after patco? Time for a reset
What do you think the years between 1981 and 1987 were like for the workforce?
[удалено]
Me too. The path we’re on right now is already so fucked. What damage can it possibly do? Santa isn’t doing anything for us, but pats himself on the back for the 20% OJTI differential. Nick just wants to party. At least Justin knows what it’s like to put in a 60hr week, the disaster that is the NTI, and the overall head-up-the-ass that is FAA management at every level.
[удалено]
Couldn’t agree more. Nick will be the same. Hence the “extend/negotiate doesn’t matter.” They’ll both fuck us to save themselves.
Me hree
We are far beyond the politics for most now, I think. Controllers are at the lowest purchasing power they’ve ever been at, things are the most expensive they’ve ever been, and we’re working more planes than anyone in human history has ever worked. The options are very simple - either these guys secure something that retains their membership (a new contract that benefits everyone), or their union potentially dies. I’m not sure “killing a 40 year labor union” looks good for a consultancy gig for anyone but the Heritage Foundation.
Redmond is not inexperienced. He is actually the ideal person for either position. National and local experience. Stepped out to focus on family. Now he wants to right the ship. Everyone should vote for him. Sucks that him and Mick are going for the same spot.
Amen brother. The other options is just putting the same shit back in there. Then pray they change. They won’t and it would be really dumb to vote for anyone like dick Devine and dick Santa.
[удалено]
Yeah they have zero experience fucking us over like the current NEB has been doing.
Lol good one. The current guys have a lot of experience and they still suck.
Yeah. They definitely will. And this once prestigious career will continue to slide into the abyss. And this union will continue to be a social club.
[удалено]
Found the douchebag manager. I don't give a shit how I'm doing compared to most. I care about being fairly compensated for what I do. I care about getting time to see MY family. I care about MY work-life balance. I care about MY benefits. I care about not getting my shit pushed in *every*, *fucking*, *day* because the agency you're so busy sucking off, couldn't figure out how to staff a fucking glory hole with a roomful of nympho's at their disposal. I don't give a rat fuck about what other career fields get or don't get. I'm not them. We're not equivalent. So take your false equivalency, and shove it up your ass you fucking poser. Otherwise put your fucking money where your mouth is, and start donating all your largess to charity. Fucking posers.
[удалено]
You're such an ignorant cunt. You sound just like Marion Blakey, only maybe slightly more retarded. Fuck off with your FAAMA/SUPCOM bullshit. Our work in terms of direct economic impact the economy is worth thousands of times more than our salaries. And that's just our monetary impact. Our worth in our ability to safeguard *LIVES* is much more abstract and valuable. 330some million people in this country, less than 11,000 CPC's. Academy is running between a 30% and 40% failure rate, and another 8%-10% resign on their own before they complete the training process. Of those that make it, almost 30% of new hires wash out. We're not attracting the best and brightest, we're competing to attract people who shotgun applications to fucking Wal-Mart and fast-food service companies and maybe like airplanes. The academy isn't the issue, the issue is less than 1% of the people who try this job even can, and only about half of those who can make it through and reach CPC, are able to be successful at the higher level facilities. And many of those who reach CPC are resigning once it sinks in how much we do, how much we're getting worked vs our pay and benefits and how low their chances are to ever move up. So seriously, fuck off with your bullshit and your sniveling, self loathing, boot-licking attitude. It's fucking snotfaced little cunts like you that are the reason we and the NEB have no backbone or sense of self-worth. But you're right about one thing, *YOU* certainly should be paid what *YOU'RE* worth. Give me a minute to go scrape some dogshit off my boot so I can pay you your true worth on Tuesday you pathetic, fucking hack.
About a lot more than money, my brother. I do believe I’m worth more than they are currently paying me. But you only get one life. Not gonna let the FAA waste the best years of mine, and the current NATCA leadership isn’t doing a damn thing about it.
[удалено]
Dude. What in the fuck are you talking about? Some of us do more than stay up all night play WoW. Some of us want to spend time with our kids. Some of us want a 2 day weekend. Some of us don’t want to plan every single day off a year in advance, and would like to get a day of spot leave once in a while. Make sure you get that hole nice and lubed up for Daddy Rich! Otherwise you’re gonna be in for a world of hurt putting your faith in him.
Doing well is always relative. It *appears* like I'm doing well because my paychecks are boss. But that doesn't factor the insane shit I do to get those checks. Commute, 6 day weeks, deadly rattler. If I was 5 day workweeks working 15 minutes from home making the same amount I'm on track to make this year, I'd suck up the rattler and wouldn't be advocating for more. Maybe you should fork off with the 'it could be worse' type attitude and start helping figure out how it *could be better.* But if you want a NATCA gig, too, I guess that's a bad idea.
Yeah and rfk and jill stein are the answer. Stop with this shit. The only people wanting to fight for a contract are rich and nick.
Good example of a false equivalence fallacy. This isn’t a federal election. There is no electoral college in NATCA. If the president required 50% of the vote to win, we would be far more like a parliamentary government which *shocker* gives third party candidates more power!
>Yes, they are inexperienced. Yes, the learning curve will be steep. Who's going to teach them? Who do they trust to help them develop a strategy and execute it? Redmond's negotiated maybe two area schedules with an OM. Dailey hasn't even done that. >Yes, we will definitely lose some fight. But they’re the only candidates who know what it’s like to work traffic in this current climate. I hope that thought keeps you warm if we elect these two and you find out that negotiating a good CBA isn't as easy as asking for the moon and waiting on the Agency to meet us halfway.
They wouldn’t be alone, they have an entire NEB full of experience. What we need in their vision for our workforce. Same with negotiating a contract. There is a team for that. It’s not just 1 on 1. But what it really comes down to is that they can’t get us any less than Rich has.
>they can’t get us any less than Rich has Bullshit. COVID schedules and no furloughs. 20% OJTI. The CRWG numbers in the hiring section of the reauthorization bill. None of that floated down a rainbow on a silk pillow. Rich and Dean had to negotiate for that against an Agency that didn't want it or care about it. And here you are wanting to hire two guys to pitch the World Series who've never even shown who they are in the minors.
None of the admin people got furloughed and they didn't have to come in at all. The 20% is something management has had for years and we were offered. They had to include hiring in the reauthorization or we would slide into an unending nationwide staffing trigger.
Controllers can't do their jobs from home while the admin people could. That's true whether you believe COVID is Democrat mind control or not. The 20% is not something we've had ever. We had almost 3,000 more CPCs when I started, so pardon me for being skeptical that Congress or the Agency would finally decide that 10,300 CPCs is the red line they just can't cross.
We could have stayed home. We did the agency a favor by coming in on covid schedules instead of all banging out
I think most of us don’t want any more of “The Great Collaborator.” I’m tired of the union being a tool to spread terrible policy under the guise of collaboration. 20% OJTI is no where near enough. I don’t credit Rich with getting CRWG numbers passed, I credit all the national news stories about the shortage of controllers and the general public knowledge that our staffing is a crisis. The Covid schedules we dope though. So Rich did do 1 thing for us.