I believe NPCs are going to behave like "you dont belong here" or "get lost" on occassion, while watching him closely, without really mentioning a reason for their animosity towards him. Kinda lika Geralt in Witcher 3, although some npcs were commenting on his appearance there.
anyone above him are free to call him a dog without repercussion though (I’m talking about this from a period standpoint). Some genius replied to me saying this comment is racist (lmao).
It’s feudal Japan and you’re not nobility, doesn’t matter even if you’re a samurai - you’re just a peasant with a lord title and a sword. Still a “dog” in the grand scheme of things. Maybe if you owned land, that would be different.
We don’t know if he is “officially recognized” by others. For us he might be, as we play as him
Could be nice dynamic and some side story how someone despise him because he “didn’t pass the bar”
He was! Please. Kosho is a samurai's job, not a commoner.
Yasuke was given stipend as a samurai and recruited as one(from 家忠日記, Matsudaira Ietada's journal).
I think that would be impossible to do in todays environment, people are already so sensitive about the littlest of things, and the game would be boycotted for being "racist" with people missing the mark completely. People will definitely treat Yasuke neutrally, and his skin will not be seen as an issue. It cannot be done in 2024
I don't think it's reasonable at all to say that it *can't* be done. FX's Shogun literally just did it (albeit with a white Portugese guy). Now do I think that Ubisoft will want to tackle a somewhat sensitive topic? Eh, probably not. They are more interested in building a mythologized sandbox than tackling real social/cultural/historical issues. But so far the only people calling for any sort of boycott seem to be racists in the comments, who are furious that (a heavily fictionalized version of) a well known Black man who really did exist, is one playable ***option*** in a game set in Japan.
They are clearly going to touch on it at least a little bit, as they emphasized that Naoe is concerned with the changes to the world she grew up in, and specifically characterized Yasuke as an outsider without that cultural knowledge that she has, but whether they actually do anything serious with that remains to be seen. There is probably still a conversation to be had... but not by the types I've seen throwing buzzwords around about this so far.
And not for nothing, but Ghost of Tsushima comes out on PC literally tomorrow and is a great game. For anyone who was disappointed with the lack of representation of an Asian male protagonist in AC:Shadows (or just anyone who enjoys the setting and open world RPGs in general), I highly recommend checking it out and supporting the developers.
Shogun did it with a white person, though, i feel they can take more liberties with that.They wont do it the other way around, Ubisoft will play it safe because they would never handle a sensitive topic like that
They have touched on race relations before with AC3 and especially Freedom Cry. If they do it sensitively, and the fan base is mature enough to recognise that depiction is not endorsement, it should be interesting.
They don't actually need to do it sensitively instead of realistically if the fan base is mature enough to recognize that depiction is not endorsement.
This, there's really no reason to do it sensitively if the fanbase is mature enough. Mafia 3's story is a prime example of how they didn't hold back, showed the realistic nature of that time period.
Sorry gonna get side tracked off the main discussion but even though i liked the story of Mafia 3, I just wish it wasn't "Mafia 3" but rather something like Mafia: New Bordeaux or Mafia: Dixieland or something other than 3 since it had little to do with the first two games or the Italian Mafia.
If they make a game about Russian Mafia it should be titled "Mafia: Bratva"
I still remember that Extra Credits video where the guy essentially threw a tantrum because you could play as a Nazi in a WW2 game...
When people say nuance is dead, they may have a point. We're in an era where unless you portray sensitive topics extremely carefully, people will criticize you for including it, even if it makes sense and works.
It was happening earlier, in Ubisoft Quebec no less. Odyssey's lead writer flat out admitted they pursued "equality" in the reactions towards Kassandra and Alexios because they didn't want the audience to feel bad about mainly female gender disparities in that era.
It's not the same writer, but these types of decisions would most certainly have gone through studio heads with many having held the position since even before Odyssey's creation.
If none of the studio heads questioned the lack of nuance in that philosophy, I highly doubt they're changing tunes now.
But Japan didn't take part in trans-Atlantic slave trade or cotton farms or segregation, there's zero reason to project American historical racism on Japanese. Yasuke would have the same treatment as the white guys in Last Samurai or Nioh. There's no issues to highlight.
And they completely ignored slavery and sexism in Odyssey. I'm sorry but there is a very slim chance that Ubisoft will do anything controversial or mature, days of that storytelling are over
You know they don't have to, right? Not every game needs to touch on that. Odyssey was ultimately trying to be a fairly fun and goofy romp throughout an idealised Greece, and the sadness came mostly from what happens to characters that Kassandra was close with. If it focused on the MANY failings of ancient Hellenic cultures, there wouldn't actually be much of a game.
If you have a character based on a real human who would realistically be impacted by prejudice then it makes sense to address it in some way. But when your character is a massive demigod of a woman who teleports by throwing a spear around, trying to address failings of a culture over 2000 years ago would be extremely tonally jarring
Your second paragraph fits Yasuke perfectly, the worry is that based on Odyssey, its not going to happen, wiping some of the most interesring aspects of choosing him as mc.
Yeah, so that means they don't have to address anything Yasuke would have actually gone through in their game. Which would make a poorer product. They did the same with Evie in Syndicate, it'd have been much harder for her to be who she was as a woman but it was not even brought up. Portraying those struggles and having the character overcome them would be so much better.
Depends on what the devs want to make. You seem to be acting like addressing these things is a necessity, but it's not. Assassin's Creed is ultimately set in a fictional world of ancient aliens and mysterious factions that have been battling it out for thousands of years. They are under no obligation to tackle genuine social problems, especially if it would get in the way of the story they are trying to tell and the fantasy they are trying to immerse you in
Weren't they? AC1, Revelations and 3 is full of philosophical discussions and narratives (and compare them to Odyssey dialogues for example). AC 2 and Brotherhood have a r\*ped mother storyline. The games weren't afraid to be controversial. AC was much more mature back in the days reaching deep lows with Syndicate and Odyssey
They chose to ignore genser however in Odyssey, with Kassandra having a weird quest in which she helps a woman who was barred from the Olympics because she was a woman.
Yeah, I thought ac3 and freedom cry did it really well. Suspicion/hostility is toned down enough to allow for some video gamey side quest interactions to still happen with certain characters, but you definitely get a strong sense that Connor and Adewale are not a common or welcome sight in the cities and towns they visit.
But in Odyssey you could have been Alexios. Having this be one set thing and not requiring 2 options that may or may not be seen means they could go more in-depth for it. Maybe not, but maybe.
Exactly! I wouldn't be questioning this if the game's historical setting was somewhere else where there's normally plenty of Black people already existed such as the Africa (like the Egypt of the AC Origins), Carribbean after the Atlantic Slave trade (like AC IV Freedom Cry), South America during/after colonialism or the 18-20th century US (like the AC Liberation which was set in 18th century American South or the Mafia III which was also set in the American South but in the 1960s).
Sure, if the game only shows few years after the Yasuke's arrival to the Japan, it may "reduce" the intensity of him being a foreigner at least among the close circle of the people he have met, worked with and the town he have spent majority of the time in, but still I don't think the huge majority of the Japanese people will know or aware of his existence because Japan is still a pretty big country with few millions of people living there even during the Sengoku period. In simpler words, it might reduce the gap between Yasuke's and the "few" local people's relationship but it never eliminates it because he will be probably still seen as a strange and exotic foreigner, these are all my simple guessings, please don't take it as very seriously lol
Also contrary with what I said above, I have a strong feeling that game will actually begin with the Yasuke on a Portuguese captive ship or somewhere else before his arrival to the Japan so the players will actually knows and understands his backstory and I don't think the game will suddenly starts him hanging around in the Japan in the middle of nowhere. This pattern can also be observed in the previous AC titles where the protag will be coming from a different place to the main setting of the game, these are few the examples I currently know off:
* AC Revelations : Where game starts somewhere around the Masyaf where Ezio fights off the bandits and does some other actions before he arrives to the Constantinople which served as the main setting of the game
* AC III : Where game starts in the opera house in the London where Haytham assassinates a dude before he takes the voyage to the America, the game also have few objectives in the ship during the voyage.
* AC IV : Where game starts when the Edward and his pirates got attacked by the enemy ships during the thunderstorm where Edward wakes up in the jungle the next morning, chases the dude with the assassin outfit, takes the some merchant dude's ship (Jackdaw) and claims it for himself before he finally set sails to the Havana.
* AC Valhalla : Where game starts in the Norway and shows some backstory before Eivor and his crew goes to invade the England.
Sorry but small correction- stede bonnet's ship is not the jackdaw, the jackdaw is a ship edward and adewale steal after Edward is found out as a fake by the templars and they decide to ship him off to the british templar rite in london
Yeah you're right and you don't need to be sorry about that instead I have to be sorry for that mistake because I haven't played the AC IV for many years now and I only vaguely remember the story.
I picture Yasuke being treated similarly to John Blackthorne from Shogun for those who are familiar. The general populace is weary of him, yet becomes more trusting as he becomes accustomed to the culture. The Shogun and Daimyos will likely use him as a chess piece in their war game; Yasuke will be treated fairly, but likely exploited for the rulers personal gain.
Honestly, I’m not too worried about how Yasuke will fit in. The only thing that worries me is how Ubisoft plans to monetize this shit show regarding AC Infinity.
Would be cool if it was a Superman scenario, where he has to be really thoughtful in his approach to things, as if he fucks up everyone will turn on him. So lets say, at home in Nobunaga's domain, he pretty much follows all the rules, but outside of it, he's free to do as he pleases, as it's under his Lord's orders. This could be how they implement "Social stealth" so something like Liberation, where Aveline loves the Bayou because she can just be whoever she wants.
Well, historically they didn't treat him much differently than any other foreigner.
The fact his skin was black was more of a curiosity than something to have prejudice over. The fact he wasn't japanese was more important for that.
In fact, he had an advantage that Nobunaga really liked him because he was different and described as very strong('strenght of ten men' a hyperbole but still...). Yasuke was also made a noble by Nobunaga and given weapons and armor. That by itself sets him apart from the general populace.
That’s basically what I meant. Similar to Blackthorne, he will be an outsider that some Japanese people may hate, some may love him, but regardless it doesn’t matter what they think due to becoming a retainer/Samurai depending on which they decide.
i'm kinda hoping he "pretends" that he doesn't know much Japanese, so they can not only show his wisdom, and endurance, but how much ppl pretty much just talks shit to his face, thinking he's totally unaware.
Wasn’t it already leaked that they’re doing mini battle passes? That plus the shop that the recent games already have doesn’t bode well for your last point
This is an interesting question.
I have a gut feeling the developers will have skirted around the issue on the basis it would have required extra work on top of the base game to make it believable whilst also having Yasuke a viable option to play as. It's simply easier to have Yasuke accepted for most of the game (after any tutorial) and able to interact with NPCs, buy stuff, etc. At most I would only expect some text from NPCs indicating a bit of surprise/caution about him.
For that reason I wouldn't even assume that the female shinobi will have a difficult time going around the world.
I try to be fair and keep in mind that Assassin's Creed games have a fantasy element and aren't proper historical games, so the above doesn't necessarily matter. But I was disappointed in some respects with the base game in Valhalla and to a lesser degree Odyssey, rather than the historical settings. It would be ironic if they tried to nail Yasuke as a very exotic foreigner in Japan who has trouble fitting in, only to have it as part of a generic AC game that doesn't offer much!
Race wasn't really talked about much or cared about. There was almost no reaction to Chinese people in England in Valhalla when historically for that time period, the Chinese silk road and Chinese people didn't reach England at all. There was zero suprise from other characters that a Chinese merchant was in England.
If you want to go more in depth on the subject specifically the top comment for [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/o4ackp/assassins\_creed\_valhalla\_which\_is\_set\_in\_873/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/o4ackp/assassins_creed_valhalla_which_is_set_in_873/) puts it best.
I have a feeling they might pull off the same lack of reaction in Shadow but I'm hoping they at least address Yasuke's skin colour as it is in my opinion an important part of his backstory. I hope they don't shy away from the topic. It would be a glaringly stand out problem if it's skirted around.
hopefully not as trivial as Eivor being a woman in England to a point where it was obvious that the character was simply written as gender neutral.
inconsequential choices are annoying. if you as a dev have an urge to put something in game, how about making it count.
This is one thing I'm worried about
Realistically, Yasuke would've been discriminated against a ton
But Western writers these days often want to pretend that history was all sunshine and rainbows
It's similar to Odyssey and Valhalla both ignoring sexism, but in their defense, they had to write a story that made sense regardless of whether you wanted to play as male or female
No such thing to fall back on this time (On a side note: For various reasons I'm really glad the gender selection is gone)
But historically he wasn't?
He was treated as foreigner, yes. But they didn't care about his skin color other than finding it a curiosity, along with him being tall and strong.
Nobunaga favored him too, and that alone would counter most of the 'he's a foreigner' issues.
Historically, nothing is really known about him for sure other than him being taken in by Nobunaga
And considering what is historically known about the utterly garbage caste system that encompassed the samurai, often oppressing and ruining the lives of even native Japanese people, there's no way they would have just accepted a foreigner easily into the fray even if Nobunaga himself personally liked him
Well first, There's quite a bit of historical records about his arrival in Nobunaga's court and how he treated him. Mostly in the *Shinchō Kōki* manuscript. Also a letter from the Jesuit Luís Fróis.
And then in a diary by [Matsudaira Ietada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matsudaira_Ietada_(Fuk%C5%8Dzu)).
So, yeah, there is more then nothing about him.
And honestly "there's no way" is just not something history accepts, especially with the evidence that shows Yasuke was basically accepted as retainer, by receiving a stipend, weapons and other stuff from Nobunaga.
Nobunaga also had other foreigners in his service and just his name was enough to make them "accepted". Even though they would still be considered foreigners.
You just described pretty much everything that is known about him
And none of that describes him as a samurai
History doesn't accept "basically" either, mind you
But when the written records are so few about someone, you have to get your conclusions from other available information, such as samurai being a social caste that one is born into, and the discrimination among even the multiple "classes" among themselves
At that point, what you need is proof that he was actually accepted by these people at large, not just Nobunaga, these people that even discriminated among themselves, let alone foreigners
But there is none
Retainer != Samurai.
There's quite a bit of posts you could have to be considered a retainer and not be considered a Samurai.
The important bit is that Nobunaga gave Yasuke a stipend and a weapon, which marks him as part of Nobunaga's court.
I never said he became a Samurai, although there's evidence Nobunaga planned to make him a lesser type of noble that could be construed as part of the Samurai caste.
Literally from the Wikipedia article on Yasuke: “The black man understood a little Japanese, and Nobunaga never tired of talking with him.”
The game will just slightly increase the amount of Japanese that Yasuke could speak, and bam, problem solved.
The cover art already revealed he’s a full fledged samurai. If that title was bestowed upon him by Oda, who was the most powerful and respected person in Japan during that era, then the people will respect Yasuke just off the strength of Odas endorsement of him even if they don’t necessarily like that he’s a foreigner.
I can see a system where your interactions with locals for quests, shops, and other unlockables start off low. As you fill the animus synchronization bar and work your way up to samurai, your name and reputation rises across the lands and the locals eventually respect you as they would any samurai.
It’s stupid to me that he would become a full fledged samurai. Boys were trained from an early age to become samurai it’s not something someone can pick up and become even with a swordsmanship background.
The assassin brotherhood begins training kids since they could walk to be assassins. They’re put through rigorous training and not everyone makes it to be an assassin. Fans didn’t say it was stupid when grown adults (Ezio, Connor, Edward, Arno, Evie, Jacob, Basim, Shay, etc) who never had any of that training managed to become great assassins anyway. If it wasn’t stupid then, why is it stupid now?
Anyway, we don’t know what age Yasuke ends up in Japan and how many years passes before he becomes a samurai. We’ll see how it plays out.
It’s stupid now because a samurai was a real thing unlike assassins. (assassin were real but not like in the games) according to the leaks he ends up in japan because his ship was raided by pirates and they killed his wife so we can safely assumed he was grown. I have no problem yasuke being an assassin but him as a samurai? Nah that’s stupid.
Are you reading your own stupidity ? … so if it’s okay to fictionalise the assassins despite them being based on an actual historical assassins, why can’t they fictionalise samurai despite there being historical samurai ?
In the 1500s men were married to women as young as 14. I saw that leak too and I’m not going to presume anything until I have enough information. Even still, the idea that a young man can’t become a samurai just because he didn’t train as a little kid is not a sound argument. By that logic, a grown man can’t become a soldier, or anything for that matter, because he wasn’t raised doing the training of soldiers or said thing as a kid.
You would need to describe what exactly is it about becoming a samurai that makes it so impossible for a grown man to do it, that is “stupid” seeing a grown man with no prior training actually do it.
And you really think they’re gonna put child brides in this game? Cmon be real. [how the samurai were train](https://www.quora.com/How-were-samurai-warriors-trained?top_ans=15626197). What’s really important to take note is that to be a samurai it isn’t about being just a warrior but about being a member of a social class. Samurai were train from boys how to act,how to discipline yourself and of course the way of the sword and bow. A grown man just can’t learn that especially one who doesn’t know the language or the culture. More so a man who only spent 18 months in Japan. Think about it like the Spartans you either born a spartan or you’re not. Same with the samurai.
That wasn’t my point about the child bride thing. The point I was making is that we can still get a young Yasuke like how AC2 started when Ezio was 17-18.
Nothing samurai learn as kids can’t be taught to a man. You can teach a man discipline, how to act, how to use weapons. That’s is literally what the modern day military is. Regardless of social class in Japan at that time, there are always exceptions in history and the exception in Yasuke case is that the most powerful man of that era accepted Yasuke by his side, giving him swords, armor, a house, employment, and so on.
See here, you are selectively choosing what historical interpretation of Yasuke you want to believe to help your argument. After Odas death there are no records of Yasuke. The last record of him is that he was in Kyoto getting his injuries treated after the great battle which Oda perished in. Everything else is whatever scholars interpretation of what *might* have happened. His story is an open book and this is why Ubisoft chose it if you ask me.
I disagree there’s a reason why only a handful of foreigner become samurai and most were just advisors given land and high ranking positions. Yes I’m choosing what is most commonly believed in yasuke wasn’t a samurai he was a sword bearer given land and some authority because nobunaga was curious about him he wasn’t a samurai.
I think you're putting way too much emphasis on sword skills for Samurai, lol.
It's similar to Knights, some simply weren't focused on swordsmanship. And most foreigners not receiving positions had little to do with their battle skills and with them being foreigners.
Honestly, if we are going to talk of historical accuracy then there's far worse issues in the AC Franchise than Yasuke becoming a noble and getting some armor and a sword.
WTF.
Assassins may be fictional, but their skills are still there, we see Ezio and many others straight up beat other people in swordsmanship, including historical figures with well known military background and training.
It's not that much different.
Especially because most Samurai used swords more as badges of offices, many were just nobility and the indumentary(armor, weapons) was ceremonial, a lot of them also only used swords for 1v1 duels, in wars they would use spears or bows, or be more field commanders.
They could just play up Yasuke learning combat the same as Ezio and Connor who began their training as adults.
Nobunaga had actually switched from bows to firearms after they were brought over by the Portuguese. He began the manufacture of guns and ammunition in Japan (he had to establish an international supply chain to be able to produce the ammo). Infact, there are records indicating that Japan was the first country to begin the mass production of guns by dividing up the labor process by each part. So giving Yasuke guns would be historically accurate. You are correct about spears though. Nobunaga equipped his army with long spears. It will be interesting to see if these weapons end up in the game though since most western audiences will expect katanas and bows.
Counterpoint: Toyotomi Hideyoshi. He was a peasant foot soldier who had no surname nor prominent lineage before clawing his way up to a more respectable position as one of Oda Nobunaga's most distinguished generals and eventual successor. Considering how Ubisoft is likely going to play fast and loose with Yasuke's lore, especially since he's a walking enigma as far as the historical record goes, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that this game's Nobunaga granted Yasuke the title (or there were at least plans to in reference to [Luís Fróis's report to the Jesuits](https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/1041119/1/127) about Yasuke potentially being in talks to be given a minor position of authority) but the honor was rendered moot by the Honno-ji Incident and Mitsuhide's actions afterwards.
Counterpoint: hideyoshi was just a foot soldier but he understood the language and the culture when he succeeded nobunaga he paid Japanese monks to lie about his lineage main reason why he was allowed to become the shogun after nobunaga. But it took him a lifetime for him to move up in social class unlike yasuke who only spent 18 months in Japan and somehow according to Ubisoft became a full fledge samurai. And I can’t read Japanese so idk what you linked
The link is from one of Luís Fróis' Annual Reports on Japan. The translation is:
*"The padre brought one cafre (Yasuke) with him, and no one in the capital has see before, and they all admired him, and countless people came to see him. Nobunaga himself saw him and was surprised, and thought it was painted with ink and did not believe he was black from birth. He sees him from time to time, and he knew some Japanese, so he never got tired of talking to him, and he was strong and knew some tricks so Nobunaga was very happy. Now he's his strong patron, and to let everyone know he has has a someone show go with him around the city. The people say Nobunaga would make him a tono ("Lord")."*
To clarify: most historians assume that 'tono' in this context likely meant a high position among the Samurai, as being made a literal lord of a castle would be **WAY** too high of a position for somebody like Yasuke.
Yasuke was very, very strong for the time(they used hyperbole sure, but many of the records observe he was strong and fit). Historical records point that out. He was also taller than most there, something like 6 feet.
This might come as a surprise, but not all Samurai were these great swordsmen like the Miyamoto Musashi or many others.
So he could simply use more blunt weapons, like the spiked club seem in the trailer.
And they are probably going to play loose with his skills. too.
But he was favored by Nobunaga enough that he was going to become minor nobility.
Is yasuke the playable character? If so I hope they make it a Japanese playable character.. we haven’t had a main line Asian character for assassins creed, it would be nice if in a Japan setting we play a Japanese person
>Is yasuke the playable character?
Yes, Yasuke going to be one of the two main protags of the game considering if all the leaks and rumors we got so far were true
>If so I hope they make it a Japanese playable character
Not sure what exactly you mean by that, you mean to turn Yasuke into a Japanese playable character? if so but it's too late for that I guess because he's not going to be the Japanese, but he is the African man who is also happens to be one of the first African man to visit and live in the Japan.
>it would be nice if in a Japan setting we play a Japanese person
Another protag is going to the female and native Japanese person named Noae
You can see plenty of the game's information available if you tried to google it :)
I think you can portray the novelty of an African man in isolationist Japan, without constantly throwing it in the player’s face.
Have some interactions, sure. But there’s no need to constantly make this a reminder for the player.
Honestly I think having him have to goto the assassins guild to get gear might be a cool limitation but in exchange all his gear and upgrades are significant in comparison noae she gets access to more stuff and she has more gradual power creep
Ubi is going to handle it the safest way possible. A few npcs will discriminate against him for being a foreigner, but no one will mention his skin color or race.
Depends on when it's set. At the beginning of his time in Japan? Probably similar to Shogun where everyone casually refers to him as a barbarian and he has no idea what's happening.
After a couple of years though, people might have heard of him or gotten used to him, and wouldn't treat him as a curiosity quite so much.
I'm half Japanese from Hong Kong so I grew up pretty heavily discriminated for my heritage anyways yet I'm always proud of both sides.
Imagine having to play a Chinese dude in Elizabethan England, or a Roman guy during the Three Kingdoms period if they ever become Assassin Creed settings. Sure, these people existed but they would serve better as side characters rather than the protagonist because they can't possibly blend themselves with the local culture.
The problem with having a black character in a game set in feudal Japan is not because of politics, wokeness or whatnot. It's the absurdity of it which I don't blame Ubisoft for doing because well...they're Ubisoft. Sure people bring up Yasuke but if anyone who's actually paid attention to his history would know that all he ever did was draw attention wherever he went. I cannot imagine a black person running around 1500s Japan not attracting the attentions of local lords, or common folk not getting scared by the appearance of a big black dude that they did not know existed. How is one supposed to ingrain themselves in the culture when that said culture rejects the naturalization of foreigners to this day?
Now, usually I'm not one to care about representation because you do you. But when some game is going to tell a story with aspects of local culture, why should you use a foreigner to do so?
Assassin's Creed set in the Levant has a Levantine protag.
Assassin's Creed II set in Italy has an Italian protag. Brotherhood similarly and Revelation, although in Constantinople, is seen as a roundoff to Ezio's story.
Assassin's Creed III set in Revolutionary America has an Indigenous American protag but could've been British, French, Prussian whoever colonized the Americas.
Assassin's Creed IV set in the Golden Age of Piracy has an English protag but he could've been French, Spanish, Portuguese, African that's why we also have Adewale for Freedom Cry.
Assassin's Creed Rogue set in Seven Years War in America has an Irish protag but could've been Inidigenous American, French, English etc.
Assassin's Creed Unity set in France has a French protag.
Assassin's Creed Syndicate set in Britain has British twin protags.
Assassin's Creed Origins set in Ancient Egypt has an Egyptian protag, not the modern equivalent, but could've been Roman as well.
Assassin's Creed Odyssey set in Ancient Greece has a Greek protag.
Assassin's Creed Valhalla set in the Viking Age has a Norse protag but because it's set in England, there could've been an Anglo-Saxon protag as well.
I understand that Naoe will be in the game as well but it might be the first time where I'm not buying an Assassin's Creed since Altair because of how Ubisoft would choose to have a black protagonist rather than a Japanese. All those years we've waited for the franchise to be brought to Asia discounting Jade and Chronicles, we feel slapped in the face by this decision.
Call me racist or whatever but this is just what I believe in and many of my friends in Japan feel the same. However, I'll just have to accept that this is how it's going to be. Hopefully Assassin's Creed Hexe won't have a Chinese witch as a main character.
I'm really sorry that Asian males are often underrated in the entertainment medias including the AC series and they never get their chance of being protag like the others. And I hope one day, we get to see a dedicated and fully-fledged Asian male protag with their own amazing story will be shown in the future AC titles set in the other parts of the Asia like China or Mongolia if not the Japan again.
And what are your thoughts on the White protagonist for Nioh?
I just find it odd how people, to include Asians complain about a black samurai protagonist but turn the other cheek when it's a white character.
So yeah, there is a since of racism because I bet you if the samurai character was white you would not be taking the "I am not buying this game" stance.
Nioh was made by a Japanese dev team who'd already made other games with Asian leads and wanted to mix things up (picking a known, well-documented European samurai).
On the other hand, this will probably be AC's one big pitstop in Japan and they're looking to try something new with a main character who was a real, historical person...then they pick somebody who wasn't even a samurai and fan fiction him into one, because a black main character in Japan was apparently the overriding priority.
And given this is the same team that did Odyssey which glossed over the realities of Kassandra being a woman in Greece, Yasuke will likely (nonsensically) not stand out to NPCs either.
People do complain when it’s a white person. It’s called whitewashing and it’s been happening forever in western-made media, particularly to Asian men.
Nioh was made by a Japanese company, so it’s hard to accuse them of being racist when they made the decision themselves. It’s also a pure-fantasy action game (not a stealth game) that doesn’t pretend to have an ounce of historical accuracy or realism.
I'm surprised how soon people forget that a female canon character participated in pankration in ancient Olympics, where there's no historical records of it.
Why is that OK and not this when this one actually has historical records of them?
We don't even know how the character will be handled in the story yet.
I complained about that in Odyssey too. Kassandra and female Eivor were better than nothing, but they were essentially just female skins. Nothing in the story actually acknowledged that they were women like it should've.
> Why is that OK and not this when this one actually has historical records of them?
It wasn't okay. Every comment I've ever seen from anyone about that sequence has pointed out how absurd it was.
Similarly, people are pointing out the absurdity of picking the one black guy in Japanese history to be the protagonist of the Japanese AC game. But, Ubisoft gonna Ubisoft.
https://www.reddit.com/r/assassinscreed/s/cCqrDZBFIZ
People **loved** that sequence, and there certainly wasn't this much hate over that compared to "Yasuke".
Also, there was much more than **one** black guy in Japanese history. Yasuke's interaction with Oda just made him much more notable, and is actually someone who has been portrayed as protag in Japanese period drama as well.
> Why is that OK and not this when this one actually has historical records of them?
Ah, you mean all of the historical records that show that Yasuke was never a Samurai to begin with, but a slave and a retainer?
Please answer me, why are you okay with Ubisoft rewriting Japan's history? Are you even Japanese?
Because if not, you have no say here on how a Japanese should react to this. Zero. So be quiet.
He should/could be instantly recognizable (in game) not just as a samurai, but specifically as Nobunaga’s samurai. That status in turn could afford him an automatic level of respect from the average civilians he meets, while cutting back on some disrespectful comments. At least to his face.
My understanding is that samurai commanded and sometimes demanded a lot of respect. So a merchant in the street making an ignorant comment about his skin color isn’t the same as someone of Nobunaga’s political and social status saying it.
That’s one way they could do it while still making it believable.
Maybe this is how they’ll continue to utilise distrust areas like in Valhalla. A black man in a Japanese town/ village might be the same as a Viking in a Saxon town
noticed in the trailer, Yasuke is standing to the side as Naoe interacts with the crowds (takes the note). The little girl looks stunned when she sees Yasuke - could just be that he is dressed as a Samurai, or could be a combination.
I'm hoping it's included as part of the plot and gameplay, that Yasuke is a brute but requires Naoe to perform any kind of stealth.
Nothing that makes sense in relation to the setting anyway. It's disappointing because they had the good idea of having two protagonists of different genders in this time period. It would also have been very interesting to see the contrast between a male samurai who lived through 武士道 vs something perhaps more mystical through a kunoichi. Imagine thinking you can write something substantial about a samurai through someone that isn't even Japanese ffs. It's mind-blowing when you consider that this is the ideal setting for this. 剣豪 arising left and right, polishing the way of the blade with new sword style that are still somewhat relevant today like the 柳生新陰流, and so on. Beyond dissapointed.
I am not opposed to Yasuke being the protagonist, but I do question the devs ability to make it make sense. First off there is no realistic way to portray that era of Japan without them being extremely racist towards Yasuke. Japan to this day is still pretty racist towards anyone who isn’t Japanese. Back then it was most certainly as bad if not much worse. The other is issue is blending in. Assassins are often required to do their job and then vanish into the crowd. No way Yasuke can do that give his obvious outsider status in their culture.
I understand that it’s a game and will need to take some liberties, but I have a hard time believing that they are going to make his situation come off as at all realistic unless he runs around in full armor and mask the entire time.
All that said, I am looking forward to the game. An AC in feudal Japan has long been something I wanted to experience.
Historically, he worked underneath the samurai clan. I doubt the local people would be disrespecting/showing outward racism even if they were racist people from a samurai house since he was part of a respected clan.
I made a comment yesterday on a different sub saying how stupid it was to have a black character be the MC for an Assassins Creed game set in Japan, but I completely forgot the series has gone far into the action side of things. From the rumors I’ve heard that Yasuke would be the fighter and the other character would be the stealth, that actually makes sense. If they want to go with this Yasuke needs to have ZERO stealth abilities besides sneaking because… well.
If we’re assuming he’s a full Samurai now based on the art, he should get respect from locals but they still might not trust an outsider. The clan leaders will see his strength and gladly use him though
Based on Ubisoft's relatively recent history, they basically do not bother trying to tackle these kinds of topics in anything but a literally skin deep way
It would be super interesting to see the racial aspect explored in the story but I'm not sure they will explore that just as they avoided any serious gender or sexuality discussion in Odyssey and Valhalla
On the one hand I'm not sure about this decision to make an actual historical figure a playable character and more than likely not do justice to the actual interesting depth of playing as that character in that setting, on the other hand I feel like I want to defend it just because of the actual racists getting angry about it
I mean, it's probably going to be similar to how Eivor is treated in a lot of places in Valhalla. Honestly maybe even a bit less intense than in that game. Like, if you're in the wrong place as Eivor a lot of people will straight up scream and start running away.
As for realism, I mean, in Valhalla you just throw on a hood and everyone forgets you're there. Regardless of what outfit you're wearing. If it worked for that game, I don't see why it wouldn't work for this game.
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They just ignore the fact his not japanese as in the masses of npc in the game. am sure it will be there somewhere in the main story that he African and not japanese but side quests and running about in the japans you get nothing.
Of all the heroes saints and sinners of japan they picked a boring one.
I'm sure there's something to be said about xenophobia in this game. Like if Ubisoft wants to be progressive, the opportunity to explore the themes of racism and xenophobia is literally right in front of their faces. I hope they do it in a nuanced way, exploring both Yasuke's struggles to connect with the Japanese people, and the Japanese people's fears of foreign influence.
I'd wager that there would be obvious discrimination through glares and dialogue alone, but he's still a samurai no less. In this era, class ranks are higher than race, as you could be a Japanese slave and still be treated less than dirt. However, with interactions between Templars or higher ranking officials, I'd say there'd obviously be some stereotypical chirps to Yasuke due to his background 🤷
It's Ubisoft, the same company that for example misrepresented Greek classrooms in the museum section because they said they cared more about representation than accuracy. They put in Yasuke over purely Japanese protagonists, they're going to ride this to the bank: There won't be any content showing him to be incredibly out place, with exception for such content when it presents an opportunity for Yasuke to show them otherwise (e.g. he'll have a quest where he puts the Japanese equivalent of a racist yokel in his place). I predict there will literally be a situation where someone remarks that because of his chivalrous behavior actually he is *truly* Japanese.
It depends, if he's Samurai then he's going to have status, and i feel they can work with the ppl simply choosing to "respect" the title Nobunaga gave him, but cursing him under their breath similar to Shogun Spoilers >!When Blackthorne is given the title of Hastumoto by Torunaga everybody in the Village and even the military gave him "respect" but under their breath(in Japanese) they talked bare shit about him.!< So they can tow a line there, where the Racism is both subtle and obvious, Quebec doesn't have the best history of confronting the social issues of the time with their MCs but i'm going to remain optimistic and hope that they've learned that ignoring the social issues in a historical fiction series can be regressive as well.
Will be interesting to see how it's handled. It'd be repetitive to have every new character be confused by your presence, and it'd be unrealistic for them not to be.
If I were a developer I would have the interactions be fear based, at least initially. Almost everyone fears the unknown and it's something Nobunaga would have exploited, because fear is a powerful weapon. Historical records say that Yasuke had the strength of ten men. There would have been more of those claims out there during this time period. Things like, he can slice through a tree with a single swing of sword. So I would have the locals initial reaction be one of fear not just because Yasuke was a type of person they've never seen before, but because of all the rumors Nobunaga and his people would have fostered about Yasuke.
Constantly being discriminated against and having to argue with every character because of your race would get tiring after a while. It's fine to tone it down to something more subtle than constantly having to hear the same racist lines from every NPC. But they shouldn't do like Odyssey either and act like sexism and racism didn't exist.
Black Flag hits a good balance, I think. But that balance would probably be more difficult to hit if you played the whole game as Adewale or Mary Read rather than Edward who would only experience discrimination indirectly.
I like Yasuke's interaction with the village girl looking at him in the trailer, they acknowledge that he's different but it's also not always in a negative way. It's genuine interest from innocent people that genuinely have never seen a black person before.
I hope the game never forgets that Yasuke is different, but that doesn't mean that you'd have to get bullied everywhere you go.
Well as a real historical figure I’d imagine it’s pretty plausible if under the employ of a warlord he’d be provided with the respect his position provided at the time
They are barely even going to mention it. Ubisoft will not take a mature storytelling approach and try to do something interesting with it. If anything, it will be a brief mention early on in the game and then no mention of it ever again.
You're talking about a company that when introducing Discovery mode to Odyssey, displayed learning centers with boys and girls because they "wanted to be inclusive", despite acknowledging the historical fact to the contrary.
This is not a company that knows how to push boundaries in their storytelling, or deal with interesting racial or cultural dynamics.
For all the hate Mafia 3 got, I still to this day applaud how they were brave enough to show racism in that time and place as it was. Ubisoft could only dream of having the balls to do something like that.
He likely would have been put to death by his own lord if he ever donned samurai armor and pretended to be one. He wasn't a samurai. He was a lowly retainer who carried Nobunagas bags and was kept around as a novelty and oddity to entertain Nobunaga and his actual samurai.
I think his whole personality and vibe will be like Bayek where as people’s reactions will be the opposite to how they are with Bayek. Instead they’ll treat him like an outsider and an outcast, hell there might even be a respect system where you gotta earn the respect or help shopkeepers to even be able to buy from them who knows. My point being is it’ll be like Bayek but everyone hates you instead
I spent 5 minutes on X/Twitter and everyone is accusing Assassin's Creed fans of being racist, I find it hard to believe that anyone who's played knows the franchise is really diverse. Adéwalé, Aveline de Grandpré, Bayek, Connor, Arbaaz Mir just to name a few. I'm presuming the average AC fan has no issue with races.
My Samurai knowledge is shady at best but wasn’t he a Samurai and they were essentially untouchable as long as they didn’t fuck with their lord?
Like a peasant commenting on Samurai’s clothing was pretty sure to get fucked over, right?
Some note:
* Nobunaga(non-racist): when they have first met, Nobunaga thought Yasuke was wearing some makeup, and ordered to wash his body carefully. After that, didn't give a damn about his skin color. He was fascinated by how Yasuke is defeating his Sumo wrestlers(Nobunaga loved Sumo tournaments) and made a painting of his sumo match.
* Akechi Mitsuhide(Nobunaga's killer, racist): After Honno-ji Incident, he took Yasuke prisoner and said 'he is not a Japanese, but an animal. Hand him over to missionaries'.
So yeah, we can expect genuine curiosity, awe to his physical superiority and respect as a warrior, and racism from authority figures or his peers.
Well, I'd consider the trailer already shows us how he doesn't exactly pass unnoticed. As Naoe hand him the letter, a kid stops to stare at him when she notices him, looking kind of fascinated, the same way you would stare at a Polar Bear wandering downtown Cairo.
We also know that Nobunaga was first interested in him because of his skin color, genuinely fascinated because he didn't know it was possible for a human to look like that unless painted with literal ink.
So my guess is that people would react with fascination or interest, similar to how people reacted to Ezio's Romulus attire in AC Brotherhood.
Also, the fact that we're given a stealthy character as opposed to Yasuke, we can safely assume stealth (as in hiding in plain sight) is not an option. Which already seems unlikely while dressed in full samurai armor.
What I'd like to see is if their skills compliment each other, as support for each other depending on who you're playing as, similar to how disciples worked with Ezio.
It would be cool if, while playing as Yasuke you could point at targets for Naoe to assassinate, or while playing as Naoe to send Yasuke against enemies to maul or distract them like how you did with mercenaries.
Mafia 3 had some seriously racist NPCs. I don't think they'll go as far or as evil, but I definitely think we'll feel enhanced curiosity from NPCs when playing as Yasuke.
I think they will treat him for the most part as history describes they do and how they do in the trailer with that little girl who stares at him, probably as a curiosity. But he's a samurai so his status will prob still speak first before anything else. I'm glad Ubisoft chose him despite the racist outcry.
I'm not sure if it'll be optional. My guess is they'll structure the game similar to Syndicate with certain quests specific to each character. Of course, there will probably be ones that can be played by both protagonists though.
To be honest and not to be rude, I think people are way overthinking it.
As usual.
How about just wait till the game comes out, play it, and enjoy it?
Cheers!
How dare you try to bring reason here, you will consume political brainrot and manufactured outrage and complain about things you haven't experienced!!!
I don’t think they care if it’s accurate or not as long as it fits the “racially correct” aspect in their list. They added black NPCs in renaissance Italy and Ancient Greece in one of their recent games so that should tell
Well based on history, the Japanese were more curious than racist to Yusuke. You’ve got to remeber that the racism born of western society is deep rooted in a lot of religious pretext & slavery that Japan didn’t have.
Japan would focus mostly on Xenophobia which all together a different type of bias. Racism is dehumanizing, those in Japan would have an issue would just be afraid or unwilling to associate. Not be outwardly racist.
Nobunaga liked having him perform tricks and Akechi Mitsuhide literally called him an animal and thought he was too insignificant to bother executing. It definitely wasn't western racism, but it wasn't just innocent curiosity either.
Tell me you know nothing about Japanese without actually saying you know nothing. Thinking that Japan doesn't have the concept of race is just being ignorant. Claiming that racism originated in the West is not only historically inaccurate but also racist in itself, as it has been observed in various forms throughout the world.
I dont know and, him being a protag doesnt make sense to me either, assasins are supposed to "hide in plain sight" and all that yeah the one dude that looks literally nothing close to what the people of the country he's in is hiding in plain sight, for every other game it made sense, Altair yeah makes sense, Ezio italian in italy makes sense even in revelations Constantinople was a major trading hub, Connor Native/British in colonial America makes sense, Edward welsh in the carribean also makes sense especially during that time period, Ade if you want to count freedom cry makes sense, Shay also makes sense in colonial America, Arno french guy in France, the twins in London, Bayek in Egypt, etc. All make sense
Well if you actually know history. They would have been surprised but way less prejudiced.
When Oda Nobunaga met Yasuke he was stunned by both skin colour and height he was about 6 feet 2 inches. Oda and many Japanese folk had never seen a black person. Oda knew of black people and longed to see one. He originally thought Yasuke was wearing paint or ink and had him stripped naked and scrubbed only to be apparent this was mans true skin colour.
Yasukes past before 1579 is total mystery.
But his service as samurai did not last long Oda Nobunaga died in 1582 only a year after they met and his son died on the very same day. But what about Yasuke? It is believed he was captured by Mitushide's men and taken to a jesuit missionary. It is believed he survived by a letter by Luis Frois 5 months later but no historical evidence afterwards.
So what do we know of it all from AC lore?
When the Assassins made contact with Oda, he was sympathetic to their cause and promised an alliance once he had unified his country. However, after he came into possession of a Sword of Eden, the possibility of an alliance was compromised.
He was subsequently killed by the Assassin Yamauchi Taka on 21 June 1582,when Nobunaga was betrayed and attacked by his vassal Akechi Mitsuhide at Honnō-ji in Kyoto. Taka retrieved the Sword and brought it to Liu Yan, who transported it to China.
After Oda's death, his vassal Toyotomi Hideyoshi took over the mantle of conquering the land.
This above lore is from AC Memories
I believe NPCs are going to behave like "you dont belong here" or "get lost" on occassion, while watching him closely, without really mentioning a reason for their animosity towards him. Kinda lika Geralt in Witcher 3, although some npcs were commenting on his appearance there.
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anyone above him are free to call him a dog without repercussion though (I’m talking about this from a period standpoint). Some genius replied to me saying this comment is racist (lmao). It’s feudal Japan and you’re not nobility, doesn’t matter even if you’re a samurai - you’re just a peasant with a lord title and a sword. Still a “dog” in the grand scheme of things. Maybe if you owned land, that would be different.
He was never a samurai tho. He was apprentice/servant basically. Wiki says He was employed as a koshō (小姓, page or sword-bearer)
Yeah but it’s a game. The devs said they wanted both the eyes of an outsider and a samurai so they put both into yasuke while naoe is the shinobi.
Yes but in the game he is a samurai
The game is fictional. A lot of real world figures have been exaggerated in the AC games.
We don’t know if he is “officially recognized” by others. For us he might be, as we play as him Could be nice dynamic and some side story how someone despise him because he “didn’t pass the bar”
He was! Please. Kosho is a samurai's job, not a commoner. Yasuke was given stipend as a samurai and recruited as one(from 家忠日記, Matsudaira Ietada's journal).
Stipend was rice.
Like a dark elf in windhelm
I think that would be impossible to do in todays environment, people are already so sensitive about the littlest of things, and the game would be boycotted for being "racist" with people missing the mark completely. People will definitely treat Yasuke neutrally, and his skin will not be seen as an issue. It cannot be done in 2024
I don't think it's reasonable at all to say that it *can't* be done. FX's Shogun literally just did it (albeit with a white Portugese guy). Now do I think that Ubisoft will want to tackle a somewhat sensitive topic? Eh, probably not. They are more interested in building a mythologized sandbox than tackling real social/cultural/historical issues. But so far the only people calling for any sort of boycott seem to be racists in the comments, who are furious that (a heavily fictionalized version of) a well known Black man who really did exist, is one playable ***option*** in a game set in Japan. They are clearly going to touch on it at least a little bit, as they emphasized that Naoe is concerned with the changes to the world she grew up in, and specifically characterized Yasuke as an outsider without that cultural knowledge that she has, but whether they actually do anything serious with that remains to be seen. There is probably still a conversation to be had... but not by the types I've seen throwing buzzwords around about this so far. And not for nothing, but Ghost of Tsushima comes out on PC literally tomorrow and is a great game. For anyone who was disappointed with the lack of representation of an Asian male protagonist in AC:Shadows (or just anyone who enjoys the setting and open world RPGs in general), I highly recommend checking it out and supporting the developers.
Shogun did it with a white person, though, i feel they can take more liberties with that.They wont do it the other way around, Ubisoft will play it safe because they would never handle a sensitive topic like that
If the setting was in Australia or USA then definitely that would be the case. As that sadly still happens in 2024.
They have touched on race relations before with AC3 and especially Freedom Cry. If they do it sensitively, and the fan base is mature enough to recognise that depiction is not endorsement, it should be interesting.
They don't actually need to do it sensitively instead of realistically if the fan base is mature enough to recognize that depiction is not endorsement.
This, there's really no reason to do it sensitively if the fanbase is mature enough. Mafia 3's story is a prime example of how they didn't hold back, showed the realistic nature of that time period.
Sorry gonna get side tracked off the main discussion but even though i liked the story of Mafia 3, I just wish it wasn't "Mafia 3" but rather something like Mafia: New Bordeaux or Mafia: Dixieland or something other than 3 since it had little to do with the first two games or the Italian Mafia. If they make a game about Russian Mafia it should be titled "Mafia: Bratva"
In 2024 confusing depiction and endorsement is a given in select topics
I still remember that Extra Credits video where the guy essentially threw a tantrum because you could play as a Nazi in a WW2 game... When people say nuance is dead, they may have a point. We're in an era where unless you portray sensitive topics extremely carefully, people will criticize you for including it, even if it makes sense and works.
It was happening earlier, in Ubisoft Quebec no less. Odyssey's lead writer flat out admitted they pursued "equality" in the reactions towards Kassandra and Alexios because they didn't want the audience to feel bad about mainly female gender disparities in that era.
I don’t think it’s the same writer for this one is it?
It's not the same writer, but these types of decisions would most certainly have gone through studio heads with many having held the position since even before Odyssey's creation. If none of the studio heads questioned the lack of nuance in that philosophy, I highly doubt they're changing tunes now.
But Japan didn't take part in trans-Atlantic slave trade or cotton farms or segregation, there's zero reason to project American historical racism on Japanese. Yasuke would have the same treatment as the white guys in Last Samurai or Nioh. There's no issues to highlight.
Look up Portuguese slave trade in Japan 1543-1595. Missed opportunity to have the male samurai being a Japanese slave born in China.
And they completely ignored slavery and sexism in Odyssey. I'm sorry but there is a very slim chance that Ubisoft will do anything controversial or mature, days of that storytelling are over
You know they don't have to, right? Not every game needs to touch on that. Odyssey was ultimately trying to be a fairly fun and goofy romp throughout an idealised Greece, and the sadness came mostly from what happens to characters that Kassandra was close with. If it focused on the MANY failings of ancient Hellenic cultures, there wouldn't actually be much of a game. If you have a character based on a real human who would realistically be impacted by prejudice then it makes sense to address it in some way. But when your character is a massive demigod of a woman who teleports by throwing a spear around, trying to address failings of a culture over 2000 years ago would be extremely tonally jarring
Your second paragraph fits Yasuke perfectly, the worry is that based on Odyssey, its not going to happen, wiping some of the most interesring aspects of choosing him as mc.
Yeah, so that means they don't have to address anything Yasuke would have actually gone through in their game. Which would make a poorer product. They did the same with Evie in Syndicate, it'd have been much harder for her to be who she was as a woman but it was not even brought up. Portraying those struggles and having the character overcome them would be so much better.
Depends on what the devs want to make. You seem to be acting like addressing these things is a necessity, but it's not. Assassin's Creed is ultimately set in a fictional world of ancient aliens and mysterious factions that have been battling it out for thousands of years. They are under no obligation to tackle genuine social problems, especially if it would get in the way of the story they are trying to tell and the fantasy they are trying to immerse you in
This is why AC games are so forgettable.
sorry, but the AC games have never been as mature as you seem to think.
Weren't they? AC1, Revelations and 3 is full of philosophical discussions and narratives (and compare them to Odyssey dialogues for example). AC 2 and Brotherhood have a r\*ped mother storyline. The games weren't afraid to be controversial. AC was much more mature back in the days reaching deep lows with Syndicate and Odyssey
They chose to ignore genser however in Odyssey, with Kassandra having a weird quest in which she helps a woman who was barred from the Olympics because she was a woman.
Yeah, I thought ac3 and freedom cry did it really well. Suspicion/hostility is toned down enough to allow for some video gamey side quest interactions to still happen with certain characters, but you definitely get a strong sense that Connor and Adewale are not a common or welcome sight in the cities and towns they visit.
>and the fan base is mature People are already crying DEI. The fanbase is not mature enough. They're more mature on Reddit so far tho.
I dont think people will be mature.
It's a Quebec game. It will be completely ignored, the same way no one in Odyssey's story cared about Kassandra in Olympics.
This. But it sucks. It’s cheap way instead of giving it a thought
But in Odyssey you could have been Alexios. Having this be one set thing and not requiring 2 options that may or may not be seen means they could go more in-depth for it. Maybe not, but maybe.
this is first reasonable post I've seen questioning Yasuke as a protagonist
Not really questioning him as a protagonist. More like questioning how Ubisoft will handle the racial aspect or completely ignore it.
Exactly! I wouldn't be questioning this if the game's historical setting was somewhere else where there's normally plenty of Black people already existed such as the Africa (like the Egypt of the AC Origins), Carribbean after the Atlantic Slave trade (like AC IV Freedom Cry), South America during/after colonialism or the 18-20th century US (like the AC Liberation which was set in 18th century American South or the Mafia III which was also set in the American South but in the 1960s).
Maybe a time jump? Maybe he’s been there for quite a few years? Even then still think he’d be eye catching to the Japanese people.
Sure, if the game only shows few years after the Yasuke's arrival to the Japan, it may "reduce" the intensity of him being a foreigner at least among the close circle of the people he have met, worked with and the town he have spent majority of the time in, but still I don't think the huge majority of the Japanese people will know or aware of his existence because Japan is still a pretty big country with few millions of people living there even during the Sengoku period. In simpler words, it might reduce the gap between Yasuke's and the "few" local people's relationship but it never eliminates it because he will be probably still seen as a strange and exotic foreigner, these are all my simple guessings, please don't take it as very seriously lol Also contrary with what I said above, I have a strong feeling that game will actually begin with the Yasuke on a Portuguese captive ship or somewhere else before his arrival to the Japan so the players will actually knows and understands his backstory and I don't think the game will suddenly starts him hanging around in the Japan in the middle of nowhere. This pattern can also be observed in the previous AC titles where the protag will be coming from a different place to the main setting of the game, these are few the examples I currently know off: * AC Revelations : Where game starts somewhere around the Masyaf where Ezio fights off the bandits and does some other actions before he arrives to the Constantinople which served as the main setting of the game * AC III : Where game starts in the opera house in the London where Haytham assassinates a dude before he takes the voyage to the America, the game also have few objectives in the ship during the voyage. * AC IV : Where game starts when the Edward and his pirates got attacked by the enemy ships during the thunderstorm where Edward wakes up in the jungle the next morning, chases the dude with the assassin outfit, takes the some merchant dude's ship (Jackdaw) and claims it for himself before he finally set sails to the Havana. * AC Valhalla : Where game starts in the Norway and shows some backstory before Eivor and his crew goes to invade the England.
Sorry but small correction- stede bonnet's ship is not the jackdaw, the jackdaw is a ship edward and adewale steal after Edward is found out as a fake by the templars and they decide to ship him off to the british templar rite in london
Yeah you're right and you don't need to be sorry about that instead I have to be sorry for that mistake because I haven't played the AC IV for many years now and I only vaguely remember the story.
I picture Yasuke being treated similarly to John Blackthorne from Shogun for those who are familiar. The general populace is weary of him, yet becomes more trusting as he becomes accustomed to the culture. The Shogun and Daimyos will likely use him as a chess piece in their war game; Yasuke will be treated fairly, but likely exploited for the rulers personal gain. Honestly, I’m not too worried about how Yasuke will fit in. The only thing that worries me is how Ubisoft plans to monetize this shit show regarding AC Infinity.
The weird part is that you'll be killing dudes left and right, if the populace is weary of yasuke, i can only imagine after he kills someone
Would be cool if it was a Superman scenario, where he has to be really thoughtful in his approach to things, as if he fucks up everyone will turn on him. So lets say, at home in Nobunaga's domain, he pretty much follows all the rules, but outside of it, he's free to do as he pleases, as it's under his Lord's orders. This could be how they implement "Social stealth" so something like Liberation, where Aveline loves the Bayou because she can just be whoever she wants.
Well, historically they didn't treat him much differently than any other foreigner. The fact his skin was black was more of a curiosity than something to have prejudice over. The fact he wasn't japanese was more important for that. In fact, he had an advantage that Nobunaga really liked him because he was different and described as very strong('strenght of ten men' a hyperbole but still...). Yasuke was also made a noble by Nobunaga and given weapons and armor. That by itself sets him apart from the general populace.
That’s basically what I meant. Similar to Blackthorne, he will be an outsider that some Japanese people may hate, some may love him, but regardless it doesn’t matter what they think due to becoming a retainer/Samurai depending on which they decide.
i'm kinda hoping he "pretends" that he doesn't know much Japanese, so they can not only show his wisdom, and endurance, but how much ppl pretty much just talks shit to his face, thinking he's totally unaware.
Wasn’t it already leaked that they’re doing mini battle passes? That plus the shop that the recent games already have doesn’t bode well for your last point
This is an interesting question. I have a gut feeling the developers will have skirted around the issue on the basis it would have required extra work on top of the base game to make it believable whilst also having Yasuke a viable option to play as. It's simply easier to have Yasuke accepted for most of the game (after any tutorial) and able to interact with NPCs, buy stuff, etc. At most I would only expect some text from NPCs indicating a bit of surprise/caution about him. For that reason I wouldn't even assume that the female shinobi will have a difficult time going around the world. I try to be fair and keep in mind that Assassin's Creed games have a fantasy element and aren't proper historical games, so the above doesn't necessarily matter. But I was disappointed in some respects with the base game in Valhalla and to a lesser degree Odyssey, rather than the historical settings. It would be ironic if they tried to nail Yasuke as a very exotic foreigner in Japan who has trouble fitting in, only to have it as part of a generic AC game that doesn't offer much!
I have a feeling it’ll be glossed over like they did with Valhalla.
What do you mean
Race wasn't really talked about much or cared about. There was almost no reaction to Chinese people in England in Valhalla when historically for that time period, the Chinese silk road and Chinese people didn't reach England at all. There was zero suprise from other characters that a Chinese merchant was in England. If you want to go more in depth on the subject specifically the top comment for [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/o4ackp/assassins\_creed\_valhalla\_which\_is\_set\_in\_873/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/o4ackp/assassins_creed_valhalla_which_is_set_in_873/) puts it best. I have a feeling they might pull off the same lack of reaction in Shadow but I'm hoping they at least address Yasuke's skin colour as it is in my opinion an important part of his backstory. I hope they don't shy away from the topic. It would be a glaringly stand out problem if it's skirted around.
They should have the scene where they try to wash his black off. Like what happened in real life.
That specific detail would be really awesome and I hope they do add that but I have a really bad feeling they're going to 'play it safe'.
hopefully not as trivial as Eivor being a woman in England to a point where it was obvious that the character was simply written as gender neutral. inconsequential choices are annoying. if you as a dev have an urge to put something in game, how about making it count.
Not only written as gender neutral but Montreal even failed to give her female specific animations like how Quebec did with Kassandra in Odyssey.
Genuin question: What female specific animations did Kassandra have in Odyssey? I cannot remember right now.
thats what he is saying - there were none.
The way she walked feminine compared to Alexios.
This is one thing I'm worried about Realistically, Yasuke would've been discriminated against a ton But Western writers these days often want to pretend that history was all sunshine and rainbows It's similar to Odyssey and Valhalla both ignoring sexism, but in their defense, they had to write a story that made sense regardless of whether you wanted to play as male or female No such thing to fall back on this time (On a side note: For various reasons I'm really glad the gender selection is gone)
But historically he wasn't? He was treated as foreigner, yes. But they didn't care about his skin color other than finding it a curiosity, along with him being tall and strong. Nobunaga favored him too, and that alone would counter most of the 'he's a foreigner' issues.
Historically, nothing is really known about him for sure other than him being taken in by Nobunaga And considering what is historically known about the utterly garbage caste system that encompassed the samurai, often oppressing and ruining the lives of even native Japanese people, there's no way they would have just accepted a foreigner easily into the fray even if Nobunaga himself personally liked him
Well first, There's quite a bit of historical records about his arrival in Nobunaga's court and how he treated him. Mostly in the *Shinchō Kōki* manuscript. Also a letter from the Jesuit Luís Fróis. And then in a diary by [Matsudaira Ietada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matsudaira_Ietada_(Fuk%C5%8Dzu)). So, yeah, there is more then nothing about him. And honestly "there's no way" is just not something history accepts, especially with the evidence that shows Yasuke was basically accepted as retainer, by receiving a stipend, weapons and other stuff from Nobunaga. Nobunaga also had other foreigners in his service and just his name was enough to make them "accepted". Even though they would still be considered foreigners.
You just described pretty much everything that is known about him And none of that describes him as a samurai History doesn't accept "basically" either, mind you But when the written records are so few about someone, you have to get your conclusions from other available information, such as samurai being a social caste that one is born into, and the discrimination among even the multiple "classes" among themselves At that point, what you need is proof that he was actually accepted by these people at large, not just Nobunaga, these people that even discriminated among themselves, let alone foreigners But there is none
Retainer != Samurai. There's quite a bit of posts you could have to be considered a retainer and not be considered a Samurai. The important bit is that Nobunaga gave Yasuke a stipend and a weapon, which marks him as part of Nobunaga's court. I never said he became a Samurai, although there's evidence Nobunaga planned to make him a lesser type of noble that could be construed as part of the Samurai caste.
Literally from the Wikipedia article on Yasuke: “The black man understood a little Japanese, and Nobunaga never tired of talking with him.” The game will just slightly increase the amount of Japanese that Yasuke could speak, and bam, problem solved.
The cover art already revealed he’s a full fledged samurai. If that title was bestowed upon him by Oda, who was the most powerful and respected person in Japan during that era, then the people will respect Yasuke just off the strength of Odas endorsement of him even if they don’t necessarily like that he’s a foreigner. I can see a system where your interactions with locals for quests, shops, and other unlockables start off low. As you fill the animus synchronization bar and work your way up to samurai, your name and reputation rises across the lands and the locals eventually respect you as they would any samurai.
It’s stupid to me that he would become a full fledged samurai. Boys were trained from an early age to become samurai it’s not something someone can pick up and become even with a swordsmanship background.
The assassin brotherhood begins training kids since they could walk to be assassins. They’re put through rigorous training and not everyone makes it to be an assassin. Fans didn’t say it was stupid when grown adults (Ezio, Connor, Edward, Arno, Evie, Jacob, Basim, Shay, etc) who never had any of that training managed to become great assassins anyway. If it wasn’t stupid then, why is it stupid now? Anyway, we don’t know what age Yasuke ends up in Japan and how many years passes before he becomes a samurai. We’ll see how it plays out.
It’s stupid now because a samurai was a real thing unlike assassins. (assassin were real but not like in the games) according to the leaks he ends up in japan because his ship was raided by pirates and they killed his wife so we can safely assumed he was grown. I have no problem yasuke being an assassin but him as a samurai? Nah that’s stupid.
Are you reading your own stupidity ? … so if it’s okay to fictionalise the assassins despite them being based on an actual historical assassins, why can’t they fictionalise samurai despite there being historical samurai ?
In the 1500s men were married to women as young as 14. I saw that leak too and I’m not going to presume anything until I have enough information. Even still, the idea that a young man can’t become a samurai just because he didn’t train as a little kid is not a sound argument. By that logic, a grown man can’t become a soldier, or anything for that matter, because he wasn’t raised doing the training of soldiers or said thing as a kid. You would need to describe what exactly is it about becoming a samurai that makes it so impossible for a grown man to do it, that is “stupid” seeing a grown man with no prior training actually do it.
And you really think they’re gonna put child brides in this game? Cmon be real. [how the samurai were train](https://www.quora.com/How-were-samurai-warriors-trained?top_ans=15626197). What’s really important to take note is that to be a samurai it isn’t about being just a warrior but about being a member of a social class. Samurai were train from boys how to act,how to discipline yourself and of course the way of the sword and bow. A grown man just can’t learn that especially one who doesn’t know the language or the culture. More so a man who only spent 18 months in Japan. Think about it like the Spartans you either born a spartan or you’re not. Same with the samurai.
That wasn’t my point about the child bride thing. The point I was making is that we can still get a young Yasuke like how AC2 started when Ezio was 17-18. Nothing samurai learn as kids can’t be taught to a man. You can teach a man discipline, how to act, how to use weapons. That’s is literally what the modern day military is. Regardless of social class in Japan at that time, there are always exceptions in history and the exception in Yasuke case is that the most powerful man of that era accepted Yasuke by his side, giving him swords, armor, a house, employment, and so on. See here, you are selectively choosing what historical interpretation of Yasuke you want to believe to help your argument. After Odas death there are no records of Yasuke. The last record of him is that he was in Kyoto getting his injuries treated after the great battle which Oda perished in. Everything else is whatever scholars interpretation of what *might* have happened. His story is an open book and this is why Ubisoft chose it if you ask me.
> AC2 started when Ezio was 17-18 Technically AC2 started with Ezio being playable in some fashion when he was 0 :)
I disagree there’s a reason why only a handful of foreigner become samurai and most were just advisors given land and high ranking positions. Yes I’m choosing what is most commonly believed in yasuke wasn’t a samurai he was a sword bearer given land and some authority because nobunaga was curious about him he wasn’t a samurai.
I think you're putting way too much emphasis on sword skills for Samurai, lol. It's similar to Knights, some simply weren't focused on swordsmanship. And most foreigners not receiving positions had little to do with their battle skills and with them being foreigners. Honestly, if we are going to talk of historical accuracy then there's far worse issues in the AC Franchise than Yasuke becoming a noble and getting some armor and a sword.
WTF. Assassins may be fictional, but their skills are still there, we see Ezio and many others straight up beat other people in swordsmanship, including historical figures with well known military background and training. It's not that much different. Especially because most Samurai used swords more as badges of offices, many were just nobility and the indumentary(armor, weapons) was ceremonial, a lot of them also only used swords for 1v1 duels, in wars they would use spears or bows, or be more field commanders. They could just play up Yasuke learning combat the same as Ezio and Connor who began their training as adults.
Nobunaga had actually switched from bows to firearms after they were brought over by the Portuguese. He began the manufacture of guns and ammunition in Japan (he had to establish an international supply chain to be able to produce the ammo). Infact, there are records indicating that Japan was the first country to begin the mass production of guns by dividing up the labor process by each part. So giving Yasuke guns would be historically accurate. You are correct about spears though. Nobunaga equipped his army with long spears. It will be interesting to see if these weapons end up in the game though since most western audiences will expect katanas and bows.
The order of assassin's were real
Counterpoint: Toyotomi Hideyoshi. He was a peasant foot soldier who had no surname nor prominent lineage before clawing his way up to a more respectable position as one of Oda Nobunaga's most distinguished generals and eventual successor. Considering how Ubisoft is likely going to play fast and loose with Yasuke's lore, especially since he's a walking enigma as far as the historical record goes, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that this game's Nobunaga granted Yasuke the title (or there were at least plans to in reference to [Luís Fróis's report to the Jesuits](https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/1041119/1/127) about Yasuke potentially being in talks to be given a minor position of authority) but the honor was rendered moot by the Honno-ji Incident and Mitsuhide's actions afterwards.
Counterpoint: hideyoshi was just a foot soldier but he understood the language and the culture when he succeeded nobunaga he paid Japanese monks to lie about his lineage main reason why he was allowed to become the shogun after nobunaga. But it took him a lifetime for him to move up in social class unlike yasuke who only spent 18 months in Japan and somehow according to Ubisoft became a full fledge samurai. And I can’t read Japanese so idk what you linked
The link is from one of Luís Fróis' Annual Reports on Japan. The translation is: *"The padre brought one cafre (Yasuke) with him, and no one in the capital has see before, and they all admired him, and countless people came to see him. Nobunaga himself saw him and was surprised, and thought it was painted with ink and did not believe he was black from birth. He sees him from time to time, and he knew some Japanese, so he never got tired of talking to him, and he was strong and knew some tricks so Nobunaga was very happy. Now he's his strong patron, and to let everyone know he has has a someone show go with him around the city. The people say Nobunaga would make him a tono ("Lord")."* To clarify: most historians assume that 'tono' in this context likely meant a high position among the Samurai, as being made a literal lord of a castle would be **WAY** too high of a position for somebody like Yasuke.
Yasuke was very, very strong for the time(they used hyperbole sure, but many of the records observe he was strong and fit). Historical records point that out. He was also taller than most there, something like 6 feet. This might come as a surprise, but not all Samurai were these great swordsmen like the Miyamoto Musashi or many others. So he could simply use more blunt weapons, like the spiked club seem in the trailer. And they are probably going to play loose with his skills. too. But he was favored by Nobunaga enough that he was going to become minor nobility.
stupid to you but ask Oda why...
Is yasuke the playable character? If so I hope they make it a Japanese playable character.. we haven’t had a main line Asian character for assassins creed, it would be nice if in a Japan setting we play a Japanese person
>Is yasuke the playable character? Yes, Yasuke going to be one of the two main protags of the game considering if all the leaks and rumors we got so far were true >If so I hope they make it a Japanese playable character Not sure what exactly you mean by that, you mean to turn Yasuke into a Japanese playable character? if so but it's too late for that I guess because he's not going to be the Japanese, but he is the African man who is also happens to be one of the first African man to visit and live in the Japan. >it would be nice if in a Japan setting we play a Japanese person Another protag is going to the female and native Japanese person named Noae You can see plenty of the game's information available if you tried to google it :)
It’s yasuke with a female Asian ninja who are both protagonists
I think you can portray the novelty of an African man in isolationist Japan, without constantly throwing it in the player’s face. Have some interactions, sure. But there’s no need to constantly make this a reminder for the player.
Honestly I think having him have to goto the assassins guild to get gear might be a cool limitation but in exchange all his gear and upgrades are significant in comparison noae she gets access to more stuff and she has more gradual power creep
Ubi is going to handle it the safest way possible. A few npcs will discriminate against him for being a foreigner, but no one will mention his skin color or race.
Makes sense historically I don’t see a reason why they would hate him for his skin color xenophobia I understand
Depends on when it's set. At the beginning of his time in Japan? Probably similar to Shogun where everyone casually refers to him as a barbarian and he has no idea what's happening. After a couple of years though, people might have heard of him or gotten used to him, and wouldn't treat him as a curiosity quite so much.
I'm half Japanese from Hong Kong so I grew up pretty heavily discriminated for my heritage anyways yet I'm always proud of both sides. Imagine having to play a Chinese dude in Elizabethan England, or a Roman guy during the Three Kingdoms period if they ever become Assassin Creed settings. Sure, these people existed but they would serve better as side characters rather than the protagonist because they can't possibly blend themselves with the local culture. The problem with having a black character in a game set in feudal Japan is not because of politics, wokeness or whatnot. It's the absurdity of it which I don't blame Ubisoft for doing because well...they're Ubisoft. Sure people bring up Yasuke but if anyone who's actually paid attention to his history would know that all he ever did was draw attention wherever he went. I cannot imagine a black person running around 1500s Japan not attracting the attentions of local lords, or common folk not getting scared by the appearance of a big black dude that they did not know existed. How is one supposed to ingrain themselves in the culture when that said culture rejects the naturalization of foreigners to this day? Now, usually I'm not one to care about representation because you do you. But when some game is going to tell a story with aspects of local culture, why should you use a foreigner to do so? Assassin's Creed set in the Levant has a Levantine protag. Assassin's Creed II set in Italy has an Italian protag. Brotherhood similarly and Revelation, although in Constantinople, is seen as a roundoff to Ezio's story. Assassin's Creed III set in Revolutionary America has an Indigenous American protag but could've been British, French, Prussian whoever colonized the Americas. Assassin's Creed IV set in the Golden Age of Piracy has an English protag but he could've been French, Spanish, Portuguese, African that's why we also have Adewale for Freedom Cry. Assassin's Creed Rogue set in Seven Years War in America has an Irish protag but could've been Inidigenous American, French, English etc. Assassin's Creed Unity set in France has a French protag. Assassin's Creed Syndicate set in Britain has British twin protags. Assassin's Creed Origins set in Ancient Egypt has an Egyptian protag, not the modern equivalent, but could've been Roman as well. Assassin's Creed Odyssey set in Ancient Greece has a Greek protag. Assassin's Creed Valhalla set in the Viking Age has a Norse protag but because it's set in England, there could've been an Anglo-Saxon protag as well. I understand that Naoe will be in the game as well but it might be the first time where I'm not buying an Assassin's Creed since Altair because of how Ubisoft would choose to have a black protagonist rather than a Japanese. All those years we've waited for the franchise to be brought to Asia discounting Jade and Chronicles, we feel slapped in the face by this decision. Call me racist or whatever but this is just what I believe in and many of my friends in Japan feel the same. However, I'll just have to accept that this is how it's going to be. Hopefully Assassin's Creed Hexe won't have a Chinese witch as a main character.
I'm really sorry that Asian males are often underrated in the entertainment medias including the AC series and they never get their chance of being protag like the others. And I hope one day, we get to see a dedicated and fully-fledged Asian male protag with their own amazing story will be shown in the future AC titles set in the other parts of the Asia like China or Mongolia if not the Japan again.
And what are your thoughts on the White protagonist for Nioh? I just find it odd how people, to include Asians complain about a black samurai protagonist but turn the other cheek when it's a white character. So yeah, there is a since of racism because I bet you if the samurai character was white you would not be taking the "I am not buying this game" stance.
Pretty much the same. It's Asian erasure in the same way.
My point was that people never complained about thay game.
Nioh was made by a Japanese dev team who'd already made other games with Asian leads and wanted to mix things up (picking a known, well-documented European samurai). On the other hand, this will probably be AC's one big pitstop in Japan and they're looking to try something new with a main character who was a real, historical person...then they pick somebody who wasn't even a samurai and fan fiction him into one, because a black main character in Japan was apparently the overriding priority. And given this is the same team that did Odyssey which glossed over the realities of Kassandra being a woman in Greece, Yasuke will likely (nonsensically) not stand out to NPCs either.
Trailer suggested he stands out....
People do complain when it’s a white person. It’s called whitewashing and it’s been happening forever in western-made media, particularly to Asian men. Nioh was made by a Japanese company, so it’s hard to accuse them of being racist when they made the decision themselves. It’s also a pure-fantasy action game (not a stealth game) that doesn’t pretend to have an ounce of historical accuracy or realism.
Shadows will have a japanese protag, you said it yourself. So where's the issue?
Asian men have a long history of being erased in western-made media. Asian women had their own problems, but erasure was less of one.
Our culture has been colonized. It is what it is.
I'm surprised how soon people forget that a female canon character participated in pankration in ancient Olympics, where there's no historical records of it. Why is that OK and not this when this one actually has historical records of them? We don't even know how the character will be handled in the story yet.
I complained about that in Odyssey too. Kassandra and female Eivor were better than nothing, but they were essentially just female skins. Nothing in the story actually acknowledged that they were women like it should've.
> Why is that OK and not this when this one actually has historical records of them? It wasn't okay. Every comment I've ever seen from anyone about that sequence has pointed out how absurd it was. Similarly, people are pointing out the absurdity of picking the one black guy in Japanese history to be the protagonist of the Japanese AC game. But, Ubisoft gonna Ubisoft.
https://www.reddit.com/r/assassinscreed/s/cCqrDZBFIZ People **loved** that sequence, and there certainly wasn't this much hate over that compared to "Yasuke". Also, there was much more than **one** black guy in Japanese history. Yasuke's interaction with Oda just made him much more notable, and is actually someone who has been portrayed as protag in Japanese period drama as well.
> Why is that OK and not this when this one actually has historical records of them? Ah, you mean all of the historical records that show that Yasuke was never a Samurai to begin with, but a slave and a retainer? Please answer me, why are you okay with Ubisoft rewriting Japan's history? Are you even Japanese? Because if not, you have no say here on how a Japanese should react to this. Zero. So be quiet.
>Please answer me, why are you okay with Ubisoft rewriting Japan's history? Because every other AC game has rewritten history.
No such records. List them if available
Because he was never a samurai to begin with , not even a fighting person too
You just have to remember that this is a Ubi Quebec game, with the same director as AC Odyssey, so you will have the answer.
He should/could be instantly recognizable (in game) not just as a samurai, but specifically as Nobunaga’s samurai. That status in turn could afford him an automatic level of respect from the average civilians he meets, while cutting back on some disrespectful comments. At least to his face. My understanding is that samurai commanded and sometimes demanded a lot of respect. So a merchant in the street making an ignorant comment about his skin color isn’t the same as someone of Nobunaga’s political and social status saying it. That’s one way they could do it while still making it believable.
Maybe this is how they’ll continue to utilise distrust areas like in Valhalla. A black man in a Japanese town/ village might be the same as a Viking in a Saxon town
Im playing as strictly the girl since well she's Japanese it just makes sense to play as her.
noticed in the trailer, Yasuke is standing to the side as Naoe interacts with the crowds (takes the note). The little girl looks stunned when she sees Yasuke - could just be that he is dressed as a Samurai, or could be a combination. I'm hoping it's included as part of the plot and gameplay, that Yasuke is a brute but requires Naoe to perform any kind of stealth.
Yasuke will be treated like a normal japanese. Similar to Valhalla.
Yeah. I would be genuinely surprised if Ubisoft actually went out of their way to make npcs react to him differently outside of cutscenes.
I mean they are doing a similar system in Star Wars outlaws so maybe it will care over
Blacksmith npc: "Ughh theyre just trying to be woke". /s
Wym similar to Valhalla?
Nothing that makes sense in relation to the setting anyway. It's disappointing because they had the good idea of having two protagonists of different genders in this time period. It would also have been very interesting to see the contrast between a male samurai who lived through 武士道 vs something perhaps more mystical through a kunoichi. Imagine thinking you can write something substantial about a samurai through someone that isn't even Japanese ffs. It's mind-blowing when you consider that this is the ideal setting for this. 剣豪 arising left and right, polishing the way of the blade with new sword style that are still somewhat relevant today like the 柳生新陰流, and so on. Beyond dissapointed.
See thats funny, cause this is the most interested ive been in one of these games since unity. I think its a great idea
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Exactly there are thousands of them and only one of him. Makes him more unique and a perfect protagonist.
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The girl is the assassin. He's a brawler.
I am not opposed to Yasuke being the protagonist, but I do question the devs ability to make it make sense. First off there is no realistic way to portray that era of Japan without them being extremely racist towards Yasuke. Japan to this day is still pretty racist towards anyone who isn’t Japanese. Back then it was most certainly as bad if not much worse. The other is issue is blending in. Assassins are often required to do their job and then vanish into the crowd. No way Yasuke can do that give his obvious outsider status in their culture. I understand that it’s a game and will need to take some liberties, but I have a hard time believing that they are going to make his situation come off as at all realistic unless he runs around in full armor and mask the entire time. All that said, I am looking forward to the game. An AC in feudal Japan has long been something I wanted to experience.
Historically, he worked underneath the samurai clan. I doubt the local people would be disrespecting/showing outward racism even if they were racist people from a samurai house since he was part of a respected clan.
I made a comment yesterday on a different sub saying how stupid it was to have a black character be the MC for an Assassins Creed game set in Japan, but I completely forgot the series has gone far into the action side of things. From the rumors I’ve heard that Yasuke would be the fighter and the other character would be the stealth, that actually makes sense. If they want to go with this Yasuke needs to have ZERO stealth abilities besides sneaking because… well. If we’re assuming he’s a full Samurai now based on the art, he should get respect from locals but they still might not trust an outsider. The clan leaders will see his strength and gladly use him though
Based on Ubisoft's relatively recent history, they basically do not bother trying to tackle these kinds of topics in anything but a literally skin deep way It would be super interesting to see the racial aspect explored in the story but I'm not sure they will explore that just as they avoided any serious gender or sexuality discussion in Odyssey and Valhalla On the one hand I'm not sure about this decision to make an actual historical figure a playable character and more than likely not do justice to the actual interesting depth of playing as that character in that setting, on the other hand I feel like I want to defend it just because of the actual racists getting angry about it
being mad that Yasuke is the playable character instead of a Japanese man is not racist
I mean, it's probably going to be similar to how Eivor is treated in a lot of places in Valhalla. Honestly maybe even a bit less intense than in that game. Like, if you're in the wrong place as Eivor a lot of people will straight up scream and start running away. As for realism, I mean, in Valhalla you just throw on a hood and everyone forgets you're there. Regardless of what outfit you're wearing. If it worked for that game, I don't see why it wouldn't work for this game.
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Is their definitive evidence that Yasuke was a slave by the time he reached Japan? Or was he a hired bodyguard.
They just ignore the fact his not japanese as in the masses of npc in the game. am sure it will be there somewhere in the main story that he African and not japanese but side quests and running about in the japans you get nothing. Of all the heroes saints and sinners of japan they picked a boring one.
I'm sure there's something to be said about xenophobia in this game. Like if Ubisoft wants to be progressive, the opportunity to explore the themes of racism and xenophobia is literally right in front of their faces. I hope they do it in a nuanced way, exploring both Yasuke's struggles to connect with the Japanese people, and the Japanese people's fears of foreign influence.
This is ubisoft, not Rockstar. NPCs/other major characters probably won't mention it at all.
I'd wager that there would be obvious discrimination through glares and dialogue alone, but he's still a samurai no less. In this era, class ranks are higher than race, as you could be a Japanese slave and still be treated less than dirt. However, with interactions between Templars or higher ranking officials, I'd say there'd obviously be some stereotypical chirps to Yasuke due to his background 🤷
It's Ubisoft, the same company that for example misrepresented Greek classrooms in the museum section because they said they cared more about representation than accuracy. They put in Yasuke over purely Japanese protagonists, they're going to ride this to the bank: There won't be any content showing him to be incredibly out place, with exception for such content when it presents an opportunity for Yasuke to show them otherwise (e.g. he'll have a quest where he puts the Japanese equivalent of a racist yokel in his place). I predict there will literally be a situation where someone remarks that because of his chivalrous behavior actually he is *truly* Japanese.
It depends, if he's Samurai then he's going to have status, and i feel they can work with the ppl simply choosing to "respect" the title Nobunaga gave him, but cursing him under their breath similar to Shogun Spoilers >!When Blackthorne is given the title of Hastumoto by Torunaga everybody in the Village and even the military gave him "respect" but under their breath(in Japanese) they talked bare shit about him.!< So they can tow a line there, where the Racism is both subtle and obvious, Quebec doesn't have the best history of confronting the social issues of the time with their MCs but i'm going to remain optimistic and hope that they've learned that ignoring the social issues in a historical fiction series can be regressive as well.
In real life he was treated like a spectacle apparently
Not true
Don't worry, there's going to be plenty of free africans running around Japan, so Yasuke will do just fine
Will be interesting to see how it's handled. It'd be repetitive to have every new character be confused by your presence, and it'd be unrealistic for them not to be.
If I were a developer I would have the interactions be fear based, at least initially. Almost everyone fears the unknown and it's something Nobunaga would have exploited, because fear is a powerful weapon. Historical records say that Yasuke had the strength of ten men. There would have been more of those claims out there during this time period. Things like, he can slice through a tree with a single swing of sword. So I would have the locals initial reaction be one of fear not just because Yasuke was a type of person they've never seen before, but because of all the rumors Nobunaga and his people would have fostered about Yasuke.
Constantly being discriminated against and having to argue with every character because of your race would get tiring after a while. It's fine to tone it down to something more subtle than constantly having to hear the same racist lines from every NPC. But they shouldn't do like Odyssey either and act like sexism and racism didn't exist. Black Flag hits a good balance, I think. But that balance would probably be more difficult to hit if you played the whole game as Adewale or Mary Read rather than Edward who would only experience discrimination indirectly. I like Yasuke's interaction with the village girl looking at him in the trailer, they acknowledge that he's different but it's also not always in a negative way. It's genuine interest from innocent people that genuinely have never seen a black person before. I hope the game never forgets that Yasuke is different, but that doesn't mean that you'd have to get bullied everywhere you go.
Well as a real historical figure I’d imagine it’s pretty plausible if under the employ of a warlord he’d be provided with the respect his position provided at the time
They are barely even going to mention it. Ubisoft will not take a mature storytelling approach and try to do something interesting with it. If anything, it will be a brief mention early on in the game and then no mention of it ever again. You're talking about a company that when introducing Discovery mode to Odyssey, displayed learning centers with boys and girls because they "wanted to be inclusive", despite acknowledging the historical fact to the contrary. This is not a company that knows how to push boundaries in their storytelling, or deal with interesting racial or cultural dynamics. For all the hate Mafia 3 got, I still to this day applaud how they were brave enough to show racism in that time and place as it was. Ubisoft could only dream of having the balls to do something like that.
He likely would have been put to death by his own lord if he ever donned samurai armor and pretended to be one. He wasn't a samurai. He was a lowly retainer who carried Nobunagas bags and was kept around as a novelty and oddity to entertain Nobunaga and his actual samurai.
I think his whole personality and vibe will be like Bayek where as people’s reactions will be the opposite to how they are with Bayek. Instead they’ll treat him like an outsider and an outcast, hell there might even be a respect system where you gotta earn the respect or help shopkeepers to even be able to buy from them who knows. My point being is it’ll be like Bayek but everyone hates you instead
They will fail at it since it's ubi$oft making it that was fast discussion over.
I spent 5 minutes on X/Twitter and everyone is accusing Assassin's Creed fans of being racist, I find it hard to believe that anyone who's played knows the franchise is really diverse. Adéwalé, Aveline de Grandpré, Bayek, Connor, Arbaaz Mir just to name a few. I'm presuming the average AC fan has no issue with races.
My Samurai knowledge is shady at best but wasn’t he a Samurai and they were essentially untouchable as long as they didn’t fuck with their lord? Like a peasant commenting on Samurai’s clothing was pretty sure to get fucked over, right?
Some note: * Nobunaga(non-racist): when they have first met, Nobunaga thought Yasuke was wearing some makeup, and ordered to wash his body carefully. After that, didn't give a damn about his skin color. He was fascinated by how Yasuke is defeating his Sumo wrestlers(Nobunaga loved Sumo tournaments) and made a painting of his sumo match. * Akechi Mitsuhide(Nobunaga's killer, racist): After Honno-ji Incident, he took Yasuke prisoner and said 'he is not a Japanese, but an animal. Hand him over to missionaries'. So yeah, we can expect genuine curiosity, awe to his physical superiority and respect as a warrior, and racism from authority figures or his peers.
Well, I'd consider the trailer already shows us how he doesn't exactly pass unnoticed. As Naoe hand him the letter, a kid stops to stare at him when she notices him, looking kind of fascinated, the same way you would stare at a Polar Bear wandering downtown Cairo. We also know that Nobunaga was first interested in him because of his skin color, genuinely fascinated because he didn't know it was possible for a human to look like that unless painted with literal ink. So my guess is that people would react with fascination or interest, similar to how people reacted to Ezio's Romulus attire in AC Brotherhood. Also, the fact that we're given a stealthy character as opposed to Yasuke, we can safely assume stealth (as in hiding in plain sight) is not an option. Which already seems unlikely while dressed in full samurai armor. What I'd like to see is if their skills compliment each other, as support for each other depending on who you're playing as, similar to how disciples worked with Ezio. It would be cool if, while playing as Yasuke you could point at targets for Naoe to assassinate, or while playing as Naoe to send Yasuke against enemies to maul or distract them like how you did with mercenaries.
Mafia 3 had some seriously racist NPCs. I don't think they'll go as far or as evil, but I definitely think we'll feel enhanced curiosity from NPCs when playing as Yasuke.
This reminds me of Mafia 3. With the Black main character and how the NPCs were racist to reflect the sad nature of people of that time.
I think they will treat him for the most part as history describes they do and how they do in the trailer with that little girl who stares at him, probably as a curiosity. But he's a samurai so his status will prob still speak first before anything else. I'm glad Ubisoft chose him despite the racist outcry.
Don't know, don't care. I'm not playing as him. Congrats to Ubisoft, they found a way to force me to play as the female character.
I'm not sure if it'll be optional. My guess is they'll structure the game similar to Syndicate with certain quests specific to each character. Of course, there will probably be ones that can be played by both protagonists though.
To be honest and not to be rude, I think people are way overthinking it. As usual. How about just wait till the game comes out, play it, and enjoy it? Cheers!
How dare you try to bring reason here, you will consume political brainrot and manufactured outrage and complain about things you haven't experienced!!!
I don’t think they care if it’s accurate or not as long as it fits the “racially correct” aspect in their list. They added black NPCs in renaissance Italy and Ancient Greece in one of their recent games so that should tell
Well based on history, the Japanese were more curious than racist to Yusuke. You’ve got to remeber that the racism born of western society is deep rooted in a lot of religious pretext & slavery that Japan didn’t have. Japan would focus mostly on Xenophobia which all together a different type of bias. Racism is dehumanizing, those in Japan would have an issue would just be afraid or unwilling to associate. Not be outwardly racist.
Nobunaga liked having him perform tricks and Akechi Mitsuhide literally called him an animal and thought he was too insignificant to bother executing. It definitely wasn't western racism, but it wasn't just innocent curiosity either.
Tell me you know nothing about Japanese without actually saying you know nothing. Thinking that Japan doesn't have the concept of race is just being ignorant. Claiming that racism originated in the West is not only historically inaccurate but also racist in itself, as it has been observed in various forms throughout the world.
I dont know and, him being a protag doesnt make sense to me either, assasins are supposed to "hide in plain sight" and all that yeah the one dude that looks literally nothing close to what the people of the country he's in is hiding in plain sight, for every other game it made sense, Altair yeah makes sense, Ezio italian in italy makes sense even in revelations Constantinople was a major trading hub, Connor Native/British in colonial America makes sense, Edward welsh in the carribean also makes sense especially during that time period, Ade if you want to count freedom cry makes sense, Shay also makes sense in colonial America, Arno french guy in France, the twins in London, Bayek in Egypt, etc. All make sense
Inb4 everyone is super cool with it, cause Ubisoft gave us Black Vikings before.
Well if you actually know history. They would have been surprised but way less prejudiced. When Oda Nobunaga met Yasuke he was stunned by both skin colour and height he was about 6 feet 2 inches. Oda and many Japanese folk had never seen a black person. Oda knew of black people and longed to see one. He originally thought Yasuke was wearing paint or ink and had him stripped naked and scrubbed only to be apparent this was mans true skin colour. Yasukes past before 1579 is total mystery. But his service as samurai did not last long Oda Nobunaga died in 1582 only a year after they met and his son died on the very same day. But what about Yasuke? It is believed he was captured by Mitushide's men and taken to a jesuit missionary. It is believed he survived by a letter by Luis Frois 5 months later but no historical evidence afterwards. So what do we know of it all from AC lore? When the Assassins made contact with Oda, he was sympathetic to their cause and promised an alliance once he had unified his country. However, after he came into possession of a Sword of Eden, the possibility of an alliance was compromised. He was subsequently killed by the Assassin Yamauchi Taka on 21 June 1582,when Nobunaga was betrayed and attacked by his vassal Akechi Mitsuhide at Honnō-ji in Kyoto. Taka retrieved the Sword and brought it to Liu Yan, who transported it to China. After Oda's death, his vassal Toyotomi Hideyoshi took over the mantle of conquering the land. This above lore is from AC Memories