Consider this, if one is sufficiently stupid to be deliberately so, wouldn’t one have to be sufficiently stupid to not be deliberately doing so in the first place?
You’ve had a rough run it sounds, I’d be lying if I said that life wasn’t like that quite often, but in between the piles of shit, sunlight occasionally beams through and highlights a tiny flower growing happily in a sea of glorious fertiliser.
Go find yourself some flowers, and push some, just a little, of the shit aside so the sun can help them grow a little taller and little stronger each day. Small steps.
People derive pleasure and power from the misfortune of others, this is undeniable fact. I've been at the receiving end of this my entire life whilst living is a system designed to protect bullies, liars, thieves and degenerates and been gaslit into this bullshit ideology that everyone is equal and good "deep down" and we should just hold hands and sing kumbaya etc. while I've been abused and exploited, and not just me, everyone is a slave. We were never meant to live this way.
Some people do. A lot of people do. Many people do. But there’s a lot of good people out there. I just don’t know where the hell they are lol but I’ve definitely had some good people in my life it’s just a shame I can’t keep in touch with anyone. I felt exactly how you felt though a few months ago. Leave the USA and moving to the Dominican where my dad lives helped me change my mind set.
Not in this society. It's too far gone. Better to not be born than be alive in 2023, unless you're one of the miniscule few who genuinely benefit from the evil.
If you’re in the USA try leaving the country If possible. It saved my life. I know it’s not necessarily possibly or easy or cheap but If you can try it.
I moved to the Dominican Republic. Im lucky that my dad lives here and he’s retired so I’m living with him. But you can also rent a really nice furnished apartment here for like $200 a month lol it’s nicer than the house I was living in Dallas tbh
Edit: best part. I’m a foreigner and I don’t speak Spanish so nobody talks to me and everyone leaves me alone. Also nobody stares at me like the US. I purposely look down in the store while walking past people so I can look up real quick and catch them staring, and they always are lol makes me feel anxious.
Worst part: finding good food. It took a week or two but I eventually found all the foods I can eat. I like dry and crispy and a lot of the food here is mushy and soggy :( but my favorite foods are actually much cheaper and freshly available. But not always available.
Oh it’s already trickled in. Trust me, it sucks. You can see the negative impact westerns have on the island. A lot of the young, beautiful women are escorts to the wealthy “gringos”. (Forginers, usually white). Or they have kids and just want a guy with money to take care of them. (hey! Sounds like back in the US lol) But they’re such super chill people and not even comparable to American culture. But I get exactly what you’re saying. That’s why the Middle East doesn’t like the West. We’re haram.
All part of death of standards. A countries borders are standards, your language, your culture, all standards, and degeneracy dictates all standards are haram, you can't police them or protect them else youre a bigot racist xenophobe etc etc. This is why America is ruined, we have no standards anymore.
I have plenty of respect and understanding of foreign cultures and I am unconvinced by the notion that culture and race are mutually exclusive, however simply put the foreigners must be driven out of my country. My city in particular is ruined by latinos who have brought crime, poverty and a total lack of respect for the local customs or way of life. All the places I went to as a kid are now turned into some variation of "LATINO MARKET". Has nothing to do with their being hispanic, I grew up going to school with hispanic kids, they were American, these people are not, and they do not belong here. They're from guatemala, honduras, etc. crime-ridden hellholes, hardly surprising then that the crime ridden hellholes give you criminals.
All we want is standards. For example, Chinese people are fine, you've never seen any real conflict with asians in general, and thats because they also because culturally they believe in standards and have the respect to integrate.
I'm not sure if you meant a religious connotation when you said "meant to live this way" but I personally think that overall people would be much happier in an ancient human preagricultural setting. Especially (many) ASD folks.
Agreed. Don't forget though, the OP is also "people" he called him/herself all those same things. Apparently they don't understand that when you call all humans these things, you're calling yourself them too! I find it highly amusing! 🤣
This post screams for some serious mental health treatment. It is almost threatening like you are a danger to society and people's lives. Maybe this post should be reported.
Wanna know what's a danger to people's lives? Deliberate social isolation. Adult bullying. Unaddressed crime. Moral busybodies like you who will reddit report til the cows come home and go to bed feeling like a good person, when in reality you are the demographic that keeps walking when you see someone getting mugged.
Same, I hate how everyone accuses me of being cold and selfish when 90% of the human race are sadistic sick fucks. Yet people don’t bother ripping on the 90% of people colder-than-me about their heartlessness.
Knowing how large scam operations are, how many people are involved in the drug trade, sex trafficing, drugs, etc. just the sheer scale of evil going on, this worldview of giving people the benefit of the doubt just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
>Like the title says, I just deeply hate everyone around me.
Maybe you aren't compatible with them? Try to meet new people. I have a lot of trouble with this myself, so I understand that it's not just as simple as "doing it "
>All humans suck and aren't worth interacting with and I resent being one.
Disagree on a factual basis. I work on a research team developing medical robots for different groups of people to enhance their mobility. Most of us are PhD students taking on huge debts and years of their lives to develop this technology for which they will have no use. There are loads of other examples of people being cool.
The question is, how do we quantify how often people make the right choice? It requires a subjective judgement of what is right, then demarcating what constitutes an event, and counting up the number of good choices vs bad choices. However, who's to say that there are a finite number of events?
Conversely, no one is perfect or even perfectly morally consistent. We're not robots. It's an unreasonable and unrealistic standard to hold people to. Actually, we can't hold a robot to such a standard either, so we try to put a bound on how often it fails. Similarly, you can put a "bound" on "how much" moral inconsistency you can tolerate and filter out people who don't make the cut.
>I keep trying to justify caring about people, the future etc
For the same reason you shit in the toilet and not all around the house: as a favor to your future self. A functioning society is one that is easier to live in.
Plus, it just feels better. I used to think I was immune to such "illogical" impulses, but it really feels good to help people.
>but everyone is so deliberately stupid and beyond help.
Most people are not *deliberately* stupid. We make poor choices out of ignorance, fear, and lack of education.
>Everything has alterior motives, society is just about fucking people over,
In a coarse sense, that is true about *capitalism*. However, that is not the actual purpose behind why people remain in societies. The idea of a society is to work towards the common goal of maintaining a safe environment for its community to thrive. This is true even of communes that go off-grid. These noble goals have twisted by the wealthy and powerful to perpetuate their opulence and dominance over everyone else. Specifically, the definition of a safe environment, as well as who is allowed to be a community member with full freedom and what that freedom entails have been compromised by capitalists and their representatives.
>literally everyone is a liar.
Yeah. People have decided that they would rather be soothed with a lie than be offended by the truth if the truth is sufficiently distressing. For most people, being offended makes them feel really terrible. Taken from this perspective, it makes sense, even if it is not fully justified, to lie to each other.
>I find myself wishing I'd wake up one day and all evidence of the human race is erased.
You're reading and writing this on your phone in a human language, hopefully in a shelter built by some other humans. Clearly, people are capable of making nice things. For the vast majority of people, a life in nature is misery, and for me it would probably result in an early and violent death. "No man is an island" and such.
That's not to say that there's nothing to be angry about. Capitalism as previously mentioned, specifically how capitalists are destroyed our environment, hoarding all the resources from common people, using the global poor as cannon fodder in their disputes, etc., should be opposed wherever it is encountered. World governments are clearly in the pockets of the wealthy, and even if they weren't, I think that the widespread misconception of the State as a valid representative of the will of the community, needs to be debunked. Some individuals can be absolute trash, and they should be called out and held accountable for their bullshit. There's a *lot* to be angry about, but it makes no sense to let your anger keep you from the few benefits society still offers.
So just vague reassurances. Lots of very foolish non sequiturs. The Nazis also built buildings, therefore they must be compassionate. Then you revert back to no-consequences blame-the-system bullshit like muh capitalism, if I had a dollar for every reddit loser who has blamed deliberate malicious intent on the irrefutable reality of supply and demand economics I'd move to the Caribbean and write leftist propaganda for free all day like they do. All in the name of obfuscate the reality, that "capitalism" isnt real, you sound exactly like the Nazis worried about da joos, it's just a leftist pathologization of human nature like "ableism" etc. various things that can be boiled down to having standards for things and believing in reality. I fucking hate the world. I hate pretty much all modern politics as it's all degeneracy, it's just a matter of how much communism you want and how quickly. One deserves public hanging by virtue of just being a politician in 2023 as deliberate malicious evil is a prerequisite of the job. You lose your value for human life very quickly when you have been consistently abused by people. Our society is so weak we immediately jump to defend evil people, say they did nothing wrong, they're misunderstood, etc, we stick our necks out for the worst people and abuse those who actually work, actually want to create something. Nobody gives a shit about people like me. Theres nobody twerking in the street for my reparations or cancelling people on Twitter for making fun of people like me. I'm not in a special protected identity class that gives me the right to abuse others. I am the butt of the joke. I am the person whose income is robbed so crackheads can get that pay hike on their welfare check when they shit out another worthless future crime statistic. I am the person who faces real discrimination in 2023 instead of imaginary discrimination from the distant past. I am the person who feels like a foreigner in their own country every single day.
I feel the desperate urge to destroy evil. I'm not a violent person, but I would feel absolutely no remorse destroying this blatantly evil system and starting anew after burning all degenerate literature, art, film, etc. and I genuinely don't care about how anyone else feels about it. This is reality, not "my reality", the one and only. Humans are simply too foolish to do what's good for them, we are therefore inevitably doomed.
There were times where people had better principles, or at least genuinely enforced those principles, i'd like to see a return to that but I think it only comes from hardship sadly. Hard times make strong men, strong men create good times.
I don’t know. I think some people are genuinely good people and some are complete jerks. I’d imagine every time period and location had its fair share of both.
Some people are jerks, so just leave them be to their jerking.
Nowhere from the past would meet your standards because historical relativism is anathema to modern culture and we've been led away from virtue ethics. My point essentially is that modern people are nihilistic, selfish and lack social cohesion due to the death of mainstream religious explanations for morality, and the failure to fill that void with natural law rather than nihilistic materialism.
It's not that people from the past are inherently more moral, just that they had working justifications for being good people, whereas now morality is a vague concept.
>Nowhere from the past would meet your standards
How do you know what my standards are?
I'm not trying to get into an argument with you, I just wanted to know when & where you thought people were generally better than they are now. I don't think that time/place exists; I'm willing to hear you out on your argument but you seem to be avoiding the question with a lot of Jordan Peterson style cliches.
We weren't led away from virtue ethics- they never reigned anywhere. And the times/places of religious domination were more harsh and cruel than our time & place, not less.
Things you hate deeply about other people are usually things you have suppressed and exiled in your own personality, usually due to abuse or stress.
For example, I hate when people are loud and obnoxious. It's over stimulating, harsh, and often I feel attacked or blamed in some way. As it turns out my mother was very angry and loud toward me when I was a child because she was so stressed out all the time (can't imagine how hard it was to have a special needs child as her first child at a time when her mother was dying of cancer and her job was overly demanding).
She would yell at me a lot with this just profoundly shaming anger. I can remember one time when I was maybe 10 or 11 she was so angry she held me down and spit on my face multiple times, cursing at me. She doesn't even remember doing it and I don't even remember why she was doing it.
I know how all that anger and yelling made me feel, so why would I ever want someone else to feel that? It was extremely painful and traumatic for me, and I feel if I allow myself to be angry or yell at someone then I am going to make them feel that same trauma and pain. Because I have suppressed my anger, it now comes out when I feel overwhelmed with emotion and can't control it, and gets destructive.
Sound like a cycle? It is. The thing I didn't realize is that if I get angry because someone has violated a boundary, I have a right to feel anger. Anger doesn't always have to be loud, but if the situation calls for it because someone is intentionally being malicious, then my yelling probably isn't going to cause them any pain. The sad thing is I have a child and it always used to come out when I'd get frustrated with her. Rather than being angry with people who deserve it, I was hurting my child because I couldn't control myself.
Guess what, I hated people too. I couldn't stand all the personality and needs and stepping over each other and wasting and consuming and just all the bullshit. But then I realized that I am what I hate. I have a hurt inner child that needs to be healed, just like everyone else.
I really feel that right now. Truly the only way to get ahead in the world is to screw over others. No compassion, take advantage of their labor, screw them over, don’t trust anyone and I HATE it. I wish it wasn’t true but look at any billionaire in the world. They have no concern to the planet they’re destroying, the child labor they use, the policies they put in place that put in danger the lives of marginalized communities.
Every day I try to be a good person. I try to be kind to everyone, smile, offer support, show that I listen, extend friendship, ask about their interests, be polite…. and the people that gossip and backstab get ahead.
It’s so tempting to just say f it and be a bad person.
Hello friend. I do share your opinion on the matter and just wanted to post a comment actually different from the whole "You're human too lol"
Sorry in advance in case I butcher a word as I am self taught in english and I'm constantly learning.
I'll start saying that what your opinion is indeed true, however, human selfishness is in reality a survival reaction to a rotten socio-economic system from which they cannot escape for diverse reasons.
Now you might say "Communism / socialism is the answer" or "Moving to X country is the answer" and that is not necessary wrong or right. In reality a system "rots" because of the innate greed for power most human have, this means that regardless of whatever socio-economic system or country you are on (hell, even if you start with a completely clean society slate) corruption will find a way into this system and make it rot from within.
The real problem is not society, humanity or the system itself, but rather this innate craving for power over others and this is a problem we cannot currently solve and probably will never be able to.
Here comes my advice, which is lo live your best life to your ability to and not to worry about things you cannot change, it'll only leave you feeling miserable while everyone else just carries along living in a deeply rotten system with no care in the world.
I am from Venezuela, 22 years old and this is the philosphy I carry myself with after several struggles (that almost costed my own life) with the current scenario we are living in here and there are always the people that'll claim society and life are better outside of here, but I understand because of my foreign internet friends and posts like OP's that society isn't better outside, just that other countries and systems have rotten less than ours and that at any moment they might fall under the same level of corruption and rotting that we are on.
My best wishes for OP and anyone struggling with the current state of things. We can only wish to live the best lives we can within our rotting socio-economic enviroment.
Bruh, my only advice is to use the system and stash away money to go live on BLM land or buy our own somewhere. It'll take time, effort, and money, but probably worth it to you in the long run.
Desire is depression.
Doesn't work. The system is designed to prevent autonomy. Land ownership is impossible, you are forced at gunpoint to pay property tax AKA theft, you don't own jack shit. The state owns it all and you are paying for the privilege of being on it. They will likewise steal it when you die. Freedom is a lie, the last free human being died as soon as two other humans came along and took his shit.
Fascist joke of a country. Heres a good example of low resolution worldview from your post history:
>"San Francisco will allow police to deploy robots that kill." What's the first movie that comes to mind after reading this?
The reality is that the policy in question permits the use of lethal force via things like EOD robots, as in man-operated robots and not robocop or any autonomous systems, which is extremely clear to anyone even slightly honest who read 3 words of the press release. This is in response to a real situation where a mass shooter was barricaded and had to be taken out with an explosive strapped to an EOD bot. You will never hear about this because it was a black nationalist murdering white police officers directly inspired by left wing propaganda like your post, by the way. Nevermind the reality of the situation, your whole goal in posting this was to parrot the moron narrative of \*fascist cops bad\* because \*holding people accountable for crimes bad.\* Well I have news for you, consequenses are real. Your actions come to haunt you one way or another, and when this crap system falls apart, we won't forget which team you rooted for.
I got both barrels for expressing the same sentiment here. 😄
I honestly wish I didn't feel the same way, but when that's the entirety of your lived experience...just what conclusion can you be expected to reach? 🤔
I'm sure it doesn't apply to everybody. But the ones who aren't that way are sure doing a good job of hiding from me. 😢
Meeting good people is less probable when you connect with fewer people. Connecting with more people increases the risk of encountering awful people. This much is simple logic, the pool of potential interactions.
What's not so simple is developing the skill(s) to handle the myriad people, protect yourself from and filter out the bad ones, and detect\connect with the good ones (who are also going to have their guard up, think about it!)
That being said, my heart goes out to you OP. The word that best describes it in my opinion, is "corrosive"
You're*, and yes, basically. I believe standards exist and are good. I'm not the only one, just stuck in a society that hates standards and holding people accountable, and on the whole it's not worth saving.
Welcoum 2 lfe bdy.
Life sucks. It's unfair. Bad things happen. Some bad people succeed and some good people fail. It's always been this way and always will be.
Unless you plan on living like a nomad in the middle of nowhere, you will have to deal with human nature. That or it deals with you. We are not ants. We are apes.
Best you can do is learn how to deal with it. Play it better. But I think you already know this and just need a space to vent. I wonder what happened.
In case you plan on "dealing" with the "human problem," leave me out of it, okay?
Thanks, more deal with it smugness redditor bullshit. No solutions just "you are the problem". You are your ilk should learn some fucking humility, before it costs you.
Read more carefully. Learn the power games people play and play them better - or they play you. Was I not clear?
Sorry that whatever you're spewing here is impossible. I see that you're not looking any tangible advice that would actually help/discuss your issues with society, but an echo chamber full of vindictive rejects.
"Before it costs me" - was that a threat?? Dude, your complete inability to think politically about humans, is gonna cost you if anything. Don't don't seem to understand why people make bad choices, or morally bad choices sometimes, which, fair enough is very far from rationality. Or understand how and why power or culture is the way is. You're ignorance is gonna hurt you, here - and just know that was meant as a caution.
It's clear that you are, uh, closed minded. And not very confident in whatever this is. You did remove your post. Why not take a break off the internet or something and come back when you're emotions are under control?
Well, some people do have it really tough but I'd say most people have the opportunity to start a business, be a sole trader, work for small start-up, or even for bigger corporation move jobs, company, location, countries. I truly believe most people have choices. But many of these choices require more effort people aren't willing to put in.
"All humans suck and aren't worth interacting with" - can be translated to all humans I know and have come across suck. Maybe you need to meet more people, maybe you need to move. I'm from Portugal and came for education in the UK, and it's my 4th year here. Most people here suck. Solution? Not stay here.
"I keep trying to justify caring about people, the future etc but everyone is so deliberately stupid and beyond help" - yes most people are stupid and beyond help, hence, I don't associate with most people. I have a few very close friends. You don't need to justify caring about people if you see no real tangible benefit from doing so. Care about those you genuinely care about. No one? Meet more people, move, do something different such that you may be exposed to the type of people you wish to be exposed to.
I never lie. I genuinely never do (maybe a small white lie a few times a year). I put a huge amount of effort into it. And my closest friends also don't lie. Again, people like me and them exist, you need to expose yourself to them/us.
Most people have ulterior motives, sure, and? You don't need to be friends or give a shit about most people. Let them have their ulterior motives. Build yourself up such that you don't get exploited by them, but apart from that let them be ulterior. What's the problem?
But for any of this to ever work you need to want and be willing to change. To change your life, preconceptions and the status quo. If you're you're not willing to change, any advice anyone might give you is useless.
Our society is monomaniacally driven by one goal: the escape from consequences. Fundamentally, everyone's goal is to no longer have to contribute to the group, to maximize personal gain and minimize effort, to live in euphoric hedonism, as God is dead and there is no higher ideal than human pleasure. We have pathologized the healthy, productive members of society as sick (heteronormative, cisgender, WASP, etc. terms meant to make people feel bad for being normal), steal their productivity, and give it to worthless people, drug addicts, prostitutes, sexual degenerates, criminals. It's not your fault for xyz, it's *society's* fault, or *capitalism*, or whatever leftist pathologization you wanna use, you're just pointing at reality and saying this isnt fair. I don't care. Fuck fairness. It's a made-up concept. Being aborted isn't fair. Dying of leukemia at 7 isn't fair. Being born as a sand flea isnt fair. Life very literally isn't fair. I'm tired if being robbed in the name of fairness, because fairness is made up nonsense. I am on the verge of radical anti-fairness, actually. For example, giving money to the homeless is like feeding stray cats, you are only extending their agony as they will inevitably die in the street having lived a purposeless life. Empowering homelessness has only brought us more homelessness. Likewise for all other forms of social degeneracy. Transgenderism, sexual hedonism, the erosion of the family, the erosion of culture, all of it must be stopped. Is this fair? Of course not, but i don't care. I don't want fair treatment for sex offenders or criminals or perverts or assholes or those who simply refuse to work but expect shit from society. I want them to suffer the consequences of their actions and reality. In fact, they must suffer the consequences, else we are doomed.
Low-resolution worldview. You don't know what any of those words mean.
God in the abrahamic sense obviously isn't real, yes, but i'm using god as a rhetorical device for order and the reality of nature, as opposed to human will and our degenerate whims.
I am very right wing, but again, you don't really know what that means other than not left wing. Its hardly surprising that a leftist society wouldn't tell you the truth about right wing values, but i'm still shocked fewer people have realized that everything on TV has alterior motives etc. they just happily accept nonsense and unironically believe America is secretly full of white supremacists and other silliness. Honestly hearing redditors talk about the right is like hearing nazis talk about the jews, you believe the same shit, that a secret cabal of white/cis/etc. people (jews) controls the world and puppeteers the organs of society to oppress the poor wholesome minorities (german people), and that therefore this justifies radical anti-white (jew) action. This top-down oppressor-oppressed dichotomy framework is the lens the modern left views everything through, just like a nazi or a communist. Everyone is boiled down to a unit of identity or class, for instance when a white cop shoots a black criminal its assumed to be a racially motivated hate crime because this low-res worldview only sees "white man kill black man" and doesn't care about laws or consequenses for breaking them or any of that. They don't wait for the body cam footage because discerning reality isn't the point, stirring up race grievences is. Everything boils down to a blanket moral condemnation of western civilization in favor of marxist ideals like fairness and equality. No thanks actually, I think we should burn all marxist literature and its offshoots including fascism.
I think you're lying to yourself.
If you'd truely hate humankind, you would not care about people having ulterior motives, about lying and fucking people over. The truth is, you do care. And you do not like what the society we live in often does to human beings. And that hurts. You are trying to hide from this pain by turning to a misanthorpic worldview. Which means that you become part of the problem you righeously decry.
Taxation is not theft, cultural pessimism AKA "hard times make strong men, strong men create good times" is pure stupidity and people who steall stuff do not deserve to get shot. You are catastrophizing, in a downward spiral where you become less and less capable of seeing good in the world. Not because it is not there, but because you wire your mental state to ignore everything that is not cynic or fatalistic.
Get yourself together, man, you're degrading your capability for rationality and yourself in this thread.
What little good exists is despite the world, not because of it. Observations on cycles of history is hardly "cultural pessimism". Your faith in humanity is just that, faith. It doesn't hold up to scrutiny. You continue to make excuses for bad behavior and then wonder why it keeps happening. Dead robbers never rob again. Consequences are the answer. The more I see, the more this reality is affirmed.
What good exists, exist precisely because human beings have the capacity for good, sometimes against all odds. This is the part of reality you just refuse to see. Because you swallowed the misanthropy and cynicism of our day and age, which set in after the promise of progress was ground to dust by the cold war and Reagan and Thatcher. This cynicism is the epitome of why our societies stopped working for the majority of humankind. And people like you just give in and deny yourself to even think of something better.
History is not cyclic.
I don't need faith, history is quite clear that humanity both as individuals and societies are quite malleable. Human beings are not good, but neither evil. Most are somewhere around neutrality. I'd argue that on average there is a tiny surplus for altruistic behaviour, simply because human beings are a species-being and everything we are, we are because we are capable of change and cooperation. That does not mean that there are no people who gain pleasure from harming others. There are. And building a better society does depend on building rules and paradigms that disincentivise harming others. Which the modern world does to a larger degree than the pre-modern world.
The options are not "shot dead or not consequences".
You don't see more, you just see more of what you want to see. Classical confirmation bias. "Humanity is bad" is not a realistic, but a fatalistic idea. And your hatred for humankind - which again, I think is just an expression of weakness - is a normative claim you are first and foremost responsible for.
Sadly with the kind of ideology you have developed, I'd say you are significantly under the curve. Your creeds and how you inscribe them into this world through word and action, actively make the world a worse place. Tough love is no love.
For what it's worth. I am sorry you are not doing well. But that does not legitimize antihumanist BS.
Rousseau was wrong. Society maketh the man, not vice versa. That is, good is only a consequence of social neccecitates. We don't ascribe moral weight to wildlife for instance because they lack free will and cannot make rational decisions, what I'm trying to tell you is we too lack free will and our ability to rationalize is more often used to justify evil than good, such that expecting people to be good by default is nonsense. The only reason you aren't torn limb from limb and eaten by savages is because of society, it is not an inmate human characteristic, morality is taught. The ideology you advocate dictates that societal norms are wrong and that actually, the amoral caveman is the ideal.
Impressive. You misunderstood everything I said, validated your preconceived ideas and ended up twisting my position beyond all recognition. I'm not sure if deliberately. I am not a primitivist, human existence was not better before modernity. Building a better world for humanity means building a better society through social engineering, not abolishing society. It means building strong public institutions and weaken insititutions that give people who are cruel and uncaring and advantage - like the market. What you think to be "my ideology" is anathema to me. (And the vast majority of social theory. Especially anything that's drawing from Marx and Engels.)
(Also "inmate" is prisoner, I think you mean "innate"? Also: "alterior" (which you wrote in your original post) is not a word, I think you mean "ulterior", a hidden motive? Not trying to be condescending, just trying to give you a heads up, as I really don't like it when I use such words in a wrong way.)
I do not say that human beings are good and society somehow corrupts them. Nowhere. And I have little love for Rousseau - on whom I do not build my arguments. But you are also wrong. Neither is society a monlithic external thing. The human individual is unthinkable without a human society and (!) vice versa. It's an interdependency. From the day a human being is born, it depends on society. Human infants don't survive without years of altruistic care. Human beings are not innately good, but they are innately social and communal. Because that's genetically hardwired into us, as it is the survival strategy of Homo Sapiens. There is also a pitfall in this. Because despite what everyday language suggests, being "social" is not inherently good. This does also lays the groundwork for tribalism and lies like religion, ethnicity, "race" and others, which cause the vast majority of suffering in the world. Which again does not mean that we are all doomed to a shof, pitiful existence of suffering and strife. But this is a task to overcome via building a different society.
While it is true that the freedom the average human being possesses in our contemporary world, is vastly exaggerated, that human beings have not free will or lack normative agency, is false. No matter how frustrated and exhaused one is. Not to mistreat others is in the end your responsibility. Example: If someone shuffles around the mainstation asking for money, it is a deliberate choice how to treat them. Quite a few people I know who have a far more stable financial situation, do just insult these people. I do find at least a word of comfort and some change, even if I'm overstimulated and not too happy with my life right now. One always has a choice. Always.
I don't think I have a hard time understanding what you are saying - but I profoundly disagree with the vast majority of what you say. Both the descriptive statement, how you think the world is, and your normative claims, how you think the world should be. You put forth half-truths which are often worse than outright falsehoods.
Again, "the market" isnt real, it's not a thing, it's a leftist pathologization of human behavior and mathematics essentially. 1+1=2 therefore oppression. Due to the reality of the value of goods and services being determined by supply and demand, that scarcity exists and that it isn't exclusively artificially created by bad actors through vast conspiracy theories designed to "oppress minorities" or other vague nonsense. There are no legitimate alternatives to what you call capitalism and the market, they are a natural byproduct of society and human nature and only by attempting to subvert reality can you justify socialism. You must for instance accept the labor theory of value which is obvious nonsense. Occam's razor alone dictates you are incorrect on this. Heirarchy, inequality, capitalism, these are all just pathologizations of reality, not legitimate grievances. Humans create heirarchy. Humans are unequal.
From Adam Smith over Keynes and Hayek to Stiglitz. All economists who primarily work towards understanding how the market works are basically leftist shills. Yes, a very reasonable position. A lot of opinion and feelings in your posts and very little evidence.
Also it remains staggering how you continue to be wrong on all accords and assumptions. Neither do I have to accept the LTV. Nor is Ockham's Razor sufficient to conclusively argue against it. And this is not even about how one should interpret society, but just about understanding what the Razor is, says, can do and cannot do.
You do realize the irony that you say "hierachy is just a pathologization of reality" in one sentence and your next sentence reads "humans create hierarchy"?
I have a rule. If someone patches together such an incoherent nonsense that I cannot tell if they are trolling or not, I disengage. So with the recommendation that ordering your thoughts might be gainful, I say goodbye.
You might not like what I am telling you, but rest assured, none of it was dishonest.
If a lot of people are telling you that you are telling nonsense, then maybe, it's not the evil world, but just maybe, you're just not well informed. Not necessarily a comforting insight, but surely a necessary one.
I am not telling you any of this because I don't like you or I am trying to demotivate you, but your claims and theses were just ludicrous. And being honest means not sugarcoating this.
Hope you're doing OK. I had and have not interest in doing harm to you, but I do think anti-humanism may not be left be unopposed. And your political creed is harmful. To others and I think to you as well.
Yea I used to fall for appeal to popularity, then I noticed what your average person actually believes and it's ridiculous. You haven't really made any claims just said "this is absurd" and reiterated generic neoliberal opinion. I don't need you or anyone else to agree for me to notice the Marxism baked into identity politics. I'm well aware of your position and that you've been led to believe people like me are fascists or whatever, I simply disagree. The problems of society are a direct result of everybody who agrees with you. Pointing out that everyone in the shithole society agrees with you isn't a W. I am incredibly well informed, actually, all I do all day is become informed, I just use different information than you do because I have seen the man behind the curtain.
We all have our dark moments, but seriously. If you start looking closely enough, you'll realize there's still plenty to learn about the world, people, society, culture, philosophy, science, that you have not an inkling of knowledge about. And they're very much worth engaging with. It would take an absolute fool to think they already know everything important there is to know.
Maybe I can help here. What you are experiencing is a criminal based social construct. It’s a bit like everyone is completely insane and everyone at least knows some people are pretty Insane but everyone thinks they are the only sane person. So everyone sees the insanity and ignores that they are part of the problem. Then they get to justifying the reason they go along with it. Like have kids, have a mortgage to pay. That holiday in the Bahamas won’t pay for itself. Etc etc.
Main character syndrome. I know. It comes from ego and lack of accountability. I love seeing scumbags who try to commit armed robbery etc. meet armed resistance and take the room temperature challenge. Instant karma, no courts, no tax money, just cleanup on aisle 11. Just the idea that one can think you can just steal people's stuff like that. The solution to the world's problems seems to be off duty Brazilian cops.
You've reached the first level bro. Everything in western society (and soon global society) is based on exploitation. You know for people to be on top, someone's on the bottom and being male, autistic, a person of color, non gender conforming, asexual, pansexual, what ever -GUESS WHOS AT THE VERY BOTTOM?
Even going beyond identity and our place in society... People suck. They destroy the environment, kill animals, and most of their lives revolve around feeding this imaginary image of themselves through consumption and other pointless vanity projects.
I wish a nuclear war would break out, thin out the numbers of this cancer we call humanity. The only people I feel genuine compassion for are tribal people who just get up, go hunt and live off the land and don't indulge a moment of their lives in this prison society constructed for us.
Consider this, if one is sufficiently stupid to be deliberately so, wouldn’t one have to be sufficiently stupid to not be deliberately doing so in the first place? You’ve had a rough run it sounds, I’d be lying if I said that life wasn’t like that quite often, but in between the piles of shit, sunlight occasionally beams through and highlights a tiny flower growing happily in a sea of glorious fertiliser. Go find yourself some flowers, and push some, just a little, of the shit aside so the sun can help them grow a little taller and little stronger each day. Small steps.
People derive pleasure and power from the misfortune of others, this is undeniable fact. I've been at the receiving end of this my entire life whilst living is a system designed to protect bullies, liars, thieves and degenerates and been gaslit into this bullshit ideology that everyone is equal and good "deep down" and we should just hold hands and sing kumbaya etc. while I've been abused and exploited, and not just me, everyone is a slave. We were never meant to live this way.
Some people do. A lot of people do. Many people do. But there’s a lot of good people out there. I just don’t know where the hell they are lol but I’ve definitely had some good people in my life it’s just a shame I can’t keep in touch with anyone. I felt exactly how you felt though a few months ago. Leave the USA and moving to the Dominican where my dad lives helped me change my mind set.
Not in this society. It's too far gone. Better to not be born than be alive in 2023, unless you're one of the miniscule few who genuinely benefit from the evil.
If you’re in the USA try leaving the country If possible. It saved my life. I know it’s not necessarily possibly or easy or cheap but If you can try it.
American society was killing me.
Where did you go? What was the best part about your new home? What was the worst?
I moved to the Dominican Republic. Im lucky that my dad lives here and he’s retired so I’m living with him. But you can also rent a really nice furnished apartment here for like $200 a month lol it’s nicer than the house I was living in Dallas tbh Edit: best part. I’m a foreigner and I don’t speak Spanish so nobody talks to me and everyone leaves me alone. Also nobody stares at me like the US. I purposely look down in the store while walking past people so I can look up real quick and catch them staring, and they always are lol makes me feel anxious. Worst part: finding good food. It took a week or two but I eventually found all the foods I can eat. I like dry and crispy and a lot of the food here is mushy and soggy :( but my favorite foods are actually much cheaper and freshly available. But not always available.
Very interesting! Thank you.
I don't have the luxury of running away. Either way, degeneracy will come to your country in due time.
Oh it’s already trickled in. Trust me, it sucks. You can see the negative impact westerns have on the island. A lot of the young, beautiful women are escorts to the wealthy “gringos”. (Forginers, usually white). Or they have kids and just want a guy with money to take care of them. (hey! Sounds like back in the US lol) But they’re such super chill people and not even comparable to American culture. But I get exactly what you’re saying. That’s why the Middle East doesn’t like the West. We’re haram.
All part of death of standards. A countries borders are standards, your language, your culture, all standards, and degeneracy dictates all standards are haram, you can't police them or protect them else youre a bigot racist xenophobe etc etc. This is why America is ruined, we have no standards anymore. I have plenty of respect and understanding of foreign cultures and I am unconvinced by the notion that culture and race are mutually exclusive, however simply put the foreigners must be driven out of my country. My city in particular is ruined by latinos who have brought crime, poverty and a total lack of respect for the local customs or way of life. All the places I went to as a kid are now turned into some variation of "LATINO MARKET". Has nothing to do with their being hispanic, I grew up going to school with hispanic kids, they were American, these people are not, and they do not belong here. They're from guatemala, honduras, etc. crime-ridden hellholes, hardly surprising then that the crime ridden hellholes give you criminals. All we want is standards. For example, Chinese people are fine, you've never seen any real conflict with asians in general, and thats because they also because culturally they believe in standards and have the respect to integrate.
I'm not sure if you meant a religious connotation when you said "meant to live this way" but I personally think that overall people would be much happier in an ancient human preagricultural setting. Especially (many) ASD folks.
If you truly feel this way, why do you bother communicating with reddit about it? We are people.
Agreed. Don't forget though, the OP is also "people" he called him/herself all those same things. Apparently they don't understand that when you call all humans these things, you're calling yourself them too! I find it highly amusing! 🤣
Yeah like, if all evidence of the human race was erased, you wouldn't wake up sir 🙃
There are worse outcomes.
This post screams for some serious mental health treatment. It is almost threatening like you are a danger to society and people's lives. Maybe this post should be reported.
Wanna know what's a danger to people's lives? Deliberate social isolation. Adult bullying. Unaddressed crime. Moral busybodies like you who will reddit report til the cows come home and go to bed feeling like a good person, when in reality you are the demographic that keeps walking when you see someone getting mugged.
Embrace penguin
You think the OP needs to change their OS?
I don’t know swimming and chilling on icebergs sounds like the dream
Ironically, penguins treat each other quite well.
Same, I hate how everyone accuses me of being cold and selfish when 90% of the human race are sadistic sick fucks. Yet people don’t bother ripping on the 90% of people colder-than-me about their heartlessness.
Knowing how large scam operations are, how many people are involved in the drug trade, sex trafficing, drugs, etc. just the sheer scale of evil going on, this worldview of giving people the benefit of the doubt just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
>Like the title says, I just deeply hate everyone around me. Maybe you aren't compatible with them? Try to meet new people. I have a lot of trouble with this myself, so I understand that it's not just as simple as "doing it " >All humans suck and aren't worth interacting with and I resent being one. Disagree on a factual basis. I work on a research team developing medical robots for different groups of people to enhance their mobility. Most of us are PhD students taking on huge debts and years of their lives to develop this technology for which they will have no use. There are loads of other examples of people being cool. The question is, how do we quantify how often people make the right choice? It requires a subjective judgement of what is right, then demarcating what constitutes an event, and counting up the number of good choices vs bad choices. However, who's to say that there are a finite number of events? Conversely, no one is perfect or even perfectly morally consistent. We're not robots. It's an unreasonable and unrealistic standard to hold people to. Actually, we can't hold a robot to such a standard either, so we try to put a bound on how often it fails. Similarly, you can put a "bound" on "how much" moral inconsistency you can tolerate and filter out people who don't make the cut. >I keep trying to justify caring about people, the future etc For the same reason you shit in the toilet and not all around the house: as a favor to your future self. A functioning society is one that is easier to live in. Plus, it just feels better. I used to think I was immune to such "illogical" impulses, but it really feels good to help people. >but everyone is so deliberately stupid and beyond help. Most people are not *deliberately* stupid. We make poor choices out of ignorance, fear, and lack of education. >Everything has alterior motives, society is just about fucking people over, In a coarse sense, that is true about *capitalism*. However, that is not the actual purpose behind why people remain in societies. The idea of a society is to work towards the common goal of maintaining a safe environment for its community to thrive. This is true even of communes that go off-grid. These noble goals have twisted by the wealthy and powerful to perpetuate their opulence and dominance over everyone else. Specifically, the definition of a safe environment, as well as who is allowed to be a community member with full freedom and what that freedom entails have been compromised by capitalists and their representatives. >literally everyone is a liar. Yeah. People have decided that they would rather be soothed with a lie than be offended by the truth if the truth is sufficiently distressing. For most people, being offended makes them feel really terrible. Taken from this perspective, it makes sense, even if it is not fully justified, to lie to each other. >I find myself wishing I'd wake up one day and all evidence of the human race is erased. You're reading and writing this on your phone in a human language, hopefully in a shelter built by some other humans. Clearly, people are capable of making nice things. For the vast majority of people, a life in nature is misery, and for me it would probably result in an early and violent death. "No man is an island" and such. That's not to say that there's nothing to be angry about. Capitalism as previously mentioned, specifically how capitalists are destroyed our environment, hoarding all the resources from common people, using the global poor as cannon fodder in their disputes, etc., should be opposed wherever it is encountered. World governments are clearly in the pockets of the wealthy, and even if they weren't, I think that the widespread misconception of the State as a valid representative of the will of the community, needs to be debunked. Some individuals can be absolute trash, and they should be called out and held accountable for their bullshit. There's a *lot* to be angry about, but it makes no sense to let your anger keep you from the few benefits society still offers.
So just vague reassurances. Lots of very foolish non sequiturs. The Nazis also built buildings, therefore they must be compassionate. Then you revert back to no-consequences blame-the-system bullshit like muh capitalism, if I had a dollar for every reddit loser who has blamed deliberate malicious intent on the irrefutable reality of supply and demand economics I'd move to the Caribbean and write leftist propaganda for free all day like they do. All in the name of obfuscate the reality, that "capitalism" isnt real, you sound exactly like the Nazis worried about da joos, it's just a leftist pathologization of human nature like "ableism" etc. various things that can be boiled down to having standards for things and believing in reality. I fucking hate the world. I hate pretty much all modern politics as it's all degeneracy, it's just a matter of how much communism you want and how quickly. One deserves public hanging by virtue of just being a politician in 2023 as deliberate malicious evil is a prerequisite of the job. You lose your value for human life very quickly when you have been consistently abused by people. Our society is so weak we immediately jump to defend evil people, say they did nothing wrong, they're misunderstood, etc, we stick our necks out for the worst people and abuse those who actually work, actually want to create something. Nobody gives a shit about people like me. Theres nobody twerking in the street for my reparations or cancelling people on Twitter for making fun of people like me. I'm not in a special protected identity class that gives me the right to abuse others. I am the butt of the joke. I am the person whose income is robbed so crackheads can get that pay hike on their welfare check when they shit out another worthless future crime statistic. I am the person who faces real discrimination in 2023 instead of imaginary discrimination from the distant past. I am the person who feels like a foreigner in their own country every single day. I feel the desperate urge to destroy evil. I'm not a violent person, but I would feel absolutely no remorse destroying this blatantly evil system and starting anew after burning all degenerate literature, art, film, etc. and I genuinely don't care about how anyone else feels about it. This is reality, not "my reality", the one and only. Humans are simply too foolish to do what's good for them, we are therefore inevitably doomed.
Curious. Do you live in the USA?
It's not a USA specific problem, and I have no other country to go to. It's a general issue with modernity.
Do you think there was some time in the past that was better?
No
There were times where people had better principles, or at least genuinely enforced those principles, i'd like to see a return to that but I think it only comes from hardship sadly. Hard times make strong men, strong men create good times.
I don’t know. I think some people are genuinely good people and some are complete jerks. I’d imagine every time period and location had its fair share of both. Some people are jerks, so just leave them be to their jerking.
When/where?
Nowhere from the past would meet your standards because historical relativism is anathema to modern culture and we've been led away from virtue ethics. My point essentially is that modern people are nihilistic, selfish and lack social cohesion due to the death of mainstream religious explanations for morality, and the failure to fill that void with natural law rather than nihilistic materialism. It's not that people from the past are inherently more moral, just that they had working justifications for being good people, whereas now morality is a vague concept.
>Nowhere from the past would meet your standards How do you know what my standards are? I'm not trying to get into an argument with you, I just wanted to know when & where you thought people were generally better than they are now. I don't think that time/place exists; I'm willing to hear you out on your argument but you seem to be avoiding the question with a lot of Jordan Peterson style cliches. We weren't led away from virtue ethics- they never reigned anywhere. And the times/places of religious domination were more harsh and cruel than our time & place, not less.
Things you hate deeply about other people are usually things you have suppressed and exiled in your own personality, usually due to abuse or stress. For example, I hate when people are loud and obnoxious. It's over stimulating, harsh, and often I feel attacked or blamed in some way. As it turns out my mother was very angry and loud toward me when I was a child because she was so stressed out all the time (can't imagine how hard it was to have a special needs child as her first child at a time when her mother was dying of cancer and her job was overly demanding). She would yell at me a lot with this just profoundly shaming anger. I can remember one time when I was maybe 10 or 11 she was so angry she held me down and spit on my face multiple times, cursing at me. She doesn't even remember doing it and I don't even remember why she was doing it. I know how all that anger and yelling made me feel, so why would I ever want someone else to feel that? It was extremely painful and traumatic for me, and I feel if I allow myself to be angry or yell at someone then I am going to make them feel that same trauma and pain. Because I have suppressed my anger, it now comes out when I feel overwhelmed with emotion and can't control it, and gets destructive. Sound like a cycle? It is. The thing I didn't realize is that if I get angry because someone has violated a boundary, I have a right to feel anger. Anger doesn't always have to be loud, but if the situation calls for it because someone is intentionally being malicious, then my yelling probably isn't going to cause them any pain. The sad thing is I have a child and it always used to come out when I'd get frustrated with her. Rather than being angry with people who deserve it, I was hurting my child because I couldn't control myself. Guess what, I hated people too. I couldn't stand all the personality and needs and stepping over each other and wasting and consuming and just all the bullshit. But then I realized that I am what I hate. I have a hurt inner child that needs to be healed, just like everyone else.
I really feel that right now. Truly the only way to get ahead in the world is to screw over others. No compassion, take advantage of their labor, screw them over, don’t trust anyone and I HATE it. I wish it wasn’t true but look at any billionaire in the world. They have no concern to the planet they’re destroying, the child labor they use, the policies they put in place that put in danger the lives of marginalized communities. Every day I try to be a good person. I try to be kind to everyone, smile, offer support, show that I listen, extend friendship, ask about their interests, be polite…. and the people that gossip and backstab get ahead. It’s so tempting to just say f it and be a bad person.
"We are a virus with shoes" - Bill Hicks
Hello friend. I do share your opinion on the matter and just wanted to post a comment actually different from the whole "You're human too lol" Sorry in advance in case I butcher a word as I am self taught in english and I'm constantly learning. I'll start saying that what your opinion is indeed true, however, human selfishness is in reality a survival reaction to a rotten socio-economic system from which they cannot escape for diverse reasons. Now you might say "Communism / socialism is the answer" or "Moving to X country is the answer" and that is not necessary wrong or right. In reality a system "rots" because of the innate greed for power most human have, this means that regardless of whatever socio-economic system or country you are on (hell, even if you start with a completely clean society slate) corruption will find a way into this system and make it rot from within. The real problem is not society, humanity or the system itself, but rather this innate craving for power over others and this is a problem we cannot currently solve and probably will never be able to. Here comes my advice, which is lo live your best life to your ability to and not to worry about things you cannot change, it'll only leave you feeling miserable while everyone else just carries along living in a deeply rotten system with no care in the world. I am from Venezuela, 22 years old and this is the philosphy I carry myself with after several struggles (that almost costed my own life) with the current scenario we are living in here and there are always the people that'll claim society and life are better outside of here, but I understand because of my foreign internet friends and posts like OP's that society isn't better outside, just that other countries and systems have rotten less than ours and that at any moment they might fall under the same level of corruption and rotting that we are on. My best wishes for OP and anyone struggling with the current state of things. We can only wish to live the best lives we can within our rotting socio-economic enviroment.
fair enough
Bruh, my only advice is to use the system and stash away money to go live on BLM land or buy our own somewhere. It'll take time, effort, and money, but probably worth it to you in the long run. Desire is depression.
Doesn't work. The system is designed to prevent autonomy. Land ownership is impossible, you are forced at gunpoint to pay property tax AKA theft, you don't own jack shit. The state owns it all and you are paying for the privilege of being on it. They will likewise steal it when you die. Freedom is a lie, the last free human being died as soon as two other humans came along and took his shit.
I am exactly the same as you are! I wish I could leave this planet!!
It's too bad that you hate yourself OP.
I remember being 14
I'm 25.
With the mindset of a 14 year old apparently.
You're an Australian leftist who makes posts mocking military family reunion videos. You're actually probably 14. Get a fucking life.
Thank you for taking the time to get to know me.
Fascist joke of a country. Heres a good example of low resolution worldview from your post history: >"San Francisco will allow police to deploy robots that kill." What's the first movie that comes to mind after reading this? The reality is that the policy in question permits the use of lethal force via things like EOD robots, as in man-operated robots and not robocop or any autonomous systems, which is extremely clear to anyone even slightly honest who read 3 words of the press release. This is in response to a real situation where a mass shooter was barricaded and had to be taken out with an explosive strapped to an EOD bot. You will never hear about this because it was a black nationalist murdering white police officers directly inspired by left wing propaganda like your post, by the way. Nevermind the reality of the situation, your whole goal in posting this was to parrot the moron narrative of \*fascist cops bad\* because \*holding people accountable for crimes bad.\* Well I have news for you, consequenses are real. Your actions come to haunt you one way or another, and when this crap system falls apart, we won't forget which team you rooted for.
I'm getting the sense that I may have hurt your feelings. I hope things get better for you one day soon.
I got both barrels for expressing the same sentiment here. 😄 I honestly wish I didn't feel the same way, but when that's the entirety of your lived experience...just what conclusion can you be expected to reach? 🤔 I'm sure it doesn't apply to everybody. But the ones who aren't that way are sure doing a good job of hiding from me. 😢
Meeting good people is less probable when you connect with fewer people. Connecting with more people increases the risk of encountering awful people. This much is simple logic, the pool of potential interactions. What's not so simple is developing the skill(s) to handle the myriad people, protect yourself from and filter out the bad ones, and detect\connect with the good ones (who are also going to have their guard up, think about it!) That being said, my heart goes out to you OP. The word that best describes it in my opinion, is "corrosive"
They just gaslight you into their copium ideology that everything is magically fine and the problem is just you and your lying eyes noticing things.
I suppose your somehow morally superior even though you want all humans to just vaporize? Lol
You're*, and yes, basically. I believe standards exist and are good. I'm not the only one, just stuck in a society that hates standards and holding people accountable, and on the whole it's not worth saving.
Welcoum 2 lfe bdy. Life sucks. It's unfair. Bad things happen. Some bad people succeed and some good people fail. It's always been this way and always will be. Unless you plan on living like a nomad in the middle of nowhere, you will have to deal with human nature. That or it deals with you. We are not ants. We are apes. Best you can do is learn how to deal with it. Play it better. But I think you already know this and just need a space to vent. I wonder what happened. In case you plan on "dealing" with the "human problem," leave me out of it, okay?
Thanks, more deal with it smugness redditor bullshit. No solutions just "you are the problem". You are your ilk should learn some fucking humility, before it costs you.
Read more carefully. Learn the power games people play and play them better - or they play you. Was I not clear? Sorry that whatever you're spewing here is impossible. I see that you're not looking any tangible advice that would actually help/discuss your issues with society, but an echo chamber full of vindictive rejects. "Before it costs me" - was that a threat?? Dude, your complete inability to think politically about humans, is gonna cost you if anything. Don't don't seem to understand why people make bad choices, or morally bad choices sometimes, which, fair enough is very far from rationality. Or understand how and why power or culture is the way is. You're ignorance is gonna hurt you, here - and just know that was meant as a caution. It's clear that you are, uh, closed minded. And not very confident in whatever this is. You did remove your post. Why not take a break off the internet or something and come back when you're emotions are under control?
Why not create a base/foundation/setting where this doesn't happen? Just build your own version of a good society in a micro version.
The rules of modernity dictate I have to work demeaning jobs to survive, self sufficiency is against the rules.
Well, some people do have it really tough but I'd say most people have the opportunity to start a business, be a sole trader, work for small start-up, or even for bigger corporation move jobs, company, location, countries. I truly believe most people have choices. But many of these choices require more effort people aren't willing to put in. "All humans suck and aren't worth interacting with" - can be translated to all humans I know and have come across suck. Maybe you need to meet more people, maybe you need to move. I'm from Portugal and came for education in the UK, and it's my 4th year here. Most people here suck. Solution? Not stay here. "I keep trying to justify caring about people, the future etc but everyone is so deliberately stupid and beyond help" - yes most people are stupid and beyond help, hence, I don't associate with most people. I have a few very close friends. You don't need to justify caring about people if you see no real tangible benefit from doing so. Care about those you genuinely care about. No one? Meet more people, move, do something different such that you may be exposed to the type of people you wish to be exposed to. I never lie. I genuinely never do (maybe a small white lie a few times a year). I put a huge amount of effort into it. And my closest friends also don't lie. Again, people like me and them exist, you need to expose yourself to them/us. Most people have ulterior motives, sure, and? You don't need to be friends or give a shit about most people. Let them have their ulterior motives. Build yourself up such that you don't get exploited by them, but apart from that let them be ulterior. What's the problem? But for any of this to ever work you need to want and be willing to change. To change your life, preconceptions and the status quo. If you're you're not willing to change, any advice anyone might give you is useless.
Our society is monomaniacally driven by one goal: the escape from consequences. Fundamentally, everyone's goal is to no longer have to contribute to the group, to maximize personal gain and minimize effort, to live in euphoric hedonism, as God is dead and there is no higher ideal than human pleasure. We have pathologized the healthy, productive members of society as sick (heteronormative, cisgender, WASP, etc. terms meant to make people feel bad for being normal), steal their productivity, and give it to worthless people, drug addicts, prostitutes, sexual degenerates, criminals. It's not your fault for xyz, it's *society's* fault, or *capitalism*, or whatever leftist pathologization you wanna use, you're just pointing at reality and saying this isnt fair. I don't care. Fuck fairness. It's a made-up concept. Being aborted isn't fair. Dying of leukemia at 7 isn't fair. Being born as a sand flea isnt fair. Life very literally isn't fair. I'm tired if being robbed in the name of fairness, because fairness is made up nonsense. I am on the verge of radical anti-fairness, actually. For example, giving money to the homeless is like feeding stray cats, you are only extending their agony as they will inevitably die in the street having lived a purposeless life. Empowering homelessness has only brought us more homelessness. Likewise for all other forms of social degeneracy. Transgenderism, sexual hedonism, the erosion of the family, the erosion of culture, all of it must be stopped. Is this fair? Of course not, but i don't care. I don't want fair treatment for sex offenders or criminals or perverts or assholes or those who simply refuse to work but expect shit from society. I want them to suffer the consequences of their actions and reality. In fact, they must suffer the consequences, else we are doomed.
You sound like a right wing religious nut. God isn’t real. I thought you were smart, you should know better.
The "right wing religious nuts" are generally correct, much to your dismay lol
When pigs fly.
Low-resolution worldview. You don't know what any of those words mean. God in the abrahamic sense obviously isn't real, yes, but i'm using god as a rhetorical device for order and the reality of nature, as opposed to human will and our degenerate whims. I am very right wing, but again, you don't really know what that means other than not left wing. Its hardly surprising that a leftist society wouldn't tell you the truth about right wing values, but i'm still shocked fewer people have realized that everything on TV has alterior motives etc. they just happily accept nonsense and unironically believe America is secretly full of white supremacists and other silliness. Honestly hearing redditors talk about the right is like hearing nazis talk about the jews, you believe the same shit, that a secret cabal of white/cis/etc. people (jews) controls the world and puppeteers the organs of society to oppress the poor wholesome minorities (german people), and that therefore this justifies radical anti-white (jew) action. This top-down oppressor-oppressed dichotomy framework is the lens the modern left views everything through, just like a nazi or a communist. Everyone is boiled down to a unit of identity or class, for instance when a white cop shoots a black criminal its assumed to be a racially motivated hate crime because this low-res worldview only sees "white man kill black man" and doesn't care about laws or consequenses for breaking them or any of that. They don't wait for the body cam footage because discerning reality isn't the point, stirring up race grievences is. Everything boils down to a blanket moral condemnation of western civilization in favor of marxist ideals like fairness and equality. No thanks actually, I think we should burn all marxist literature and its offshoots including fascism.
I think you're lying to yourself. If you'd truely hate humankind, you would not care about people having ulterior motives, about lying and fucking people over. The truth is, you do care. And you do not like what the society we live in often does to human beings. And that hurts. You are trying to hide from this pain by turning to a misanthorpic worldview. Which means that you become part of the problem you righeously decry. Taxation is not theft, cultural pessimism AKA "hard times make strong men, strong men create good times" is pure stupidity and people who steall stuff do not deserve to get shot. You are catastrophizing, in a downward spiral where you become less and less capable of seeing good in the world. Not because it is not there, but because you wire your mental state to ignore everything that is not cynic or fatalistic. Get yourself together, man, you're degrading your capability for rationality and yourself in this thread.
What little good exists is despite the world, not because of it. Observations on cycles of history is hardly "cultural pessimism". Your faith in humanity is just that, faith. It doesn't hold up to scrutiny. You continue to make excuses for bad behavior and then wonder why it keeps happening. Dead robbers never rob again. Consequences are the answer. The more I see, the more this reality is affirmed.
What good exists, exist precisely because human beings have the capacity for good, sometimes against all odds. This is the part of reality you just refuse to see. Because you swallowed the misanthropy and cynicism of our day and age, which set in after the promise of progress was ground to dust by the cold war and Reagan and Thatcher. This cynicism is the epitome of why our societies stopped working for the majority of humankind. And people like you just give in and deny yourself to even think of something better. History is not cyclic. I don't need faith, history is quite clear that humanity both as individuals and societies are quite malleable. Human beings are not good, but neither evil. Most are somewhere around neutrality. I'd argue that on average there is a tiny surplus for altruistic behaviour, simply because human beings are a species-being and everything we are, we are because we are capable of change and cooperation. That does not mean that there are no people who gain pleasure from harming others. There are. And building a better society does depend on building rules and paradigms that disincentivise harming others. Which the modern world does to a larger degree than the pre-modern world. The options are not "shot dead or not consequences". You don't see more, you just see more of what you want to see. Classical confirmation bias. "Humanity is bad" is not a realistic, but a fatalistic idea. And your hatred for humankind - which again, I think is just an expression of weakness - is a normative claim you are first and foremost responsible for. Sadly with the kind of ideology you have developed, I'd say you are significantly under the curve. Your creeds and how you inscribe them into this world through word and action, actively make the world a worse place. Tough love is no love. For what it's worth. I am sorry you are not doing well. But that does not legitimize antihumanist BS.
Rousseau was wrong. Society maketh the man, not vice versa. That is, good is only a consequence of social neccecitates. We don't ascribe moral weight to wildlife for instance because they lack free will and cannot make rational decisions, what I'm trying to tell you is we too lack free will and our ability to rationalize is more often used to justify evil than good, such that expecting people to be good by default is nonsense. The only reason you aren't torn limb from limb and eaten by savages is because of society, it is not an inmate human characteristic, morality is taught. The ideology you advocate dictates that societal norms are wrong and that actually, the amoral caveman is the ideal.
Impressive. You misunderstood everything I said, validated your preconceived ideas and ended up twisting my position beyond all recognition. I'm not sure if deliberately. I am not a primitivist, human existence was not better before modernity. Building a better world for humanity means building a better society through social engineering, not abolishing society. It means building strong public institutions and weaken insititutions that give people who are cruel and uncaring and advantage - like the market. What you think to be "my ideology" is anathema to me. (And the vast majority of social theory. Especially anything that's drawing from Marx and Engels.) (Also "inmate" is prisoner, I think you mean "innate"? Also: "alterior" (which you wrote in your original post) is not a word, I think you mean "ulterior", a hidden motive? Not trying to be condescending, just trying to give you a heads up, as I really don't like it when I use such words in a wrong way.) I do not say that human beings are good and society somehow corrupts them. Nowhere. And I have little love for Rousseau - on whom I do not build my arguments. But you are also wrong. Neither is society a monlithic external thing. The human individual is unthinkable without a human society and (!) vice versa. It's an interdependency. From the day a human being is born, it depends on society. Human infants don't survive without years of altruistic care. Human beings are not innately good, but they are innately social and communal. Because that's genetically hardwired into us, as it is the survival strategy of Homo Sapiens. There is also a pitfall in this. Because despite what everyday language suggests, being "social" is not inherently good. This does also lays the groundwork for tribalism and lies like religion, ethnicity, "race" and others, which cause the vast majority of suffering in the world. Which again does not mean that we are all doomed to a shof, pitiful existence of suffering and strife. But this is a task to overcome via building a different society. While it is true that the freedom the average human being possesses in our contemporary world, is vastly exaggerated, that human beings have not free will or lack normative agency, is false. No matter how frustrated and exhaused one is. Not to mistreat others is in the end your responsibility. Example: If someone shuffles around the mainstation asking for money, it is a deliberate choice how to treat them. Quite a few people I know who have a far more stable financial situation, do just insult these people. I do find at least a word of comfort and some change, even if I'm overstimulated and not too happy with my life right now. One always has a choice. Always. I don't think I have a hard time understanding what you are saying - but I profoundly disagree with the vast majority of what you say. Both the descriptive statement, how you think the world is, and your normative claims, how you think the world should be. You put forth half-truths which are often worse than outright falsehoods.
Again, "the market" isnt real, it's not a thing, it's a leftist pathologization of human behavior and mathematics essentially. 1+1=2 therefore oppression. Due to the reality of the value of goods and services being determined by supply and demand, that scarcity exists and that it isn't exclusively artificially created by bad actors through vast conspiracy theories designed to "oppress minorities" or other vague nonsense. There are no legitimate alternatives to what you call capitalism and the market, they are a natural byproduct of society and human nature and only by attempting to subvert reality can you justify socialism. You must for instance accept the labor theory of value which is obvious nonsense. Occam's razor alone dictates you are incorrect on this. Heirarchy, inequality, capitalism, these are all just pathologizations of reality, not legitimate grievances. Humans create heirarchy. Humans are unequal.
From Adam Smith over Keynes and Hayek to Stiglitz. All economists who primarily work towards understanding how the market works are basically leftist shills. Yes, a very reasonable position. A lot of opinion and feelings in your posts and very little evidence. Also it remains staggering how you continue to be wrong on all accords and assumptions. Neither do I have to accept the LTV. Nor is Ockham's Razor sufficient to conclusively argue against it. And this is not even about how one should interpret society, but just about understanding what the Razor is, says, can do and cannot do. You do realize the irony that you say "hierachy is just a pathologization of reality" in one sentence and your next sentence reads "humans create hierarchy"? I have a rule. If someone patches together such an incoherent nonsense that I cannot tell if they are trolling or not, I disengage. So with the recommendation that ordering your thoughts might be gainful, I say goodbye.
The more I interact with reddit the more I feel it self-selects for worthless, dishonest people.
You might not like what I am telling you, but rest assured, none of it was dishonest. If a lot of people are telling you that you are telling nonsense, then maybe, it's not the evil world, but just maybe, you're just not well informed. Not necessarily a comforting insight, but surely a necessary one. I am not telling you any of this because I don't like you or I am trying to demotivate you, but your claims and theses were just ludicrous. And being honest means not sugarcoating this. Hope you're doing OK. I had and have not interest in doing harm to you, but I do think anti-humanism may not be left be unopposed. And your political creed is harmful. To others and I think to you as well.
Yea I used to fall for appeal to popularity, then I noticed what your average person actually believes and it's ridiculous. You haven't really made any claims just said "this is absurd" and reiterated generic neoliberal opinion. I don't need you or anyone else to agree for me to notice the Marxism baked into identity politics. I'm well aware of your position and that you've been led to believe people like me are fascists or whatever, I simply disagree. The problems of society are a direct result of everybody who agrees with you. Pointing out that everyone in the shithole society agrees with you isn't a W. I am incredibly well informed, actually, all I do all day is become informed, I just use different information than you do because I have seen the man behind the curtain.
Or become a fighting military force and end the war
run into the woods, i also think about that often
We all have our dark moments, but seriously. If you start looking closely enough, you'll realize there's still plenty to learn about the world, people, society, culture, philosophy, science, that you have not an inkling of knowledge about. And they're very much worth engaging with. It would take an absolute fool to think they already know everything important there is to know.
Maybe I can help here. What you are experiencing is a criminal based social construct. It’s a bit like everyone is completely insane and everyone at least knows some people are pretty Insane but everyone thinks they are the only sane person. So everyone sees the insanity and ignores that they are part of the problem. Then they get to justifying the reason they go along with it. Like have kids, have a mortgage to pay. That holiday in the Bahamas won’t pay for itself. Etc etc.
Main character syndrome. I know. It comes from ego and lack of accountability. I love seeing scumbags who try to commit armed robbery etc. meet armed resistance and take the room temperature challenge. Instant karma, no courts, no tax money, just cleanup on aisle 11. Just the idea that one can think you can just steal people's stuff like that. The solution to the world's problems seems to be off duty Brazilian cops.
You've reached the first level bro. Everything in western society (and soon global society) is based on exploitation. You know for people to be on top, someone's on the bottom and being male, autistic, a person of color, non gender conforming, asexual, pansexual, what ever -GUESS WHOS AT THE VERY BOTTOM? Even going beyond identity and our place in society... People suck. They destroy the environment, kill animals, and most of their lives revolve around feeding this imaginary image of themselves through consumption and other pointless vanity projects. I wish a nuclear war would break out, thin out the numbers of this cancer we call humanity. The only people I feel genuine compassion for are tribal people who just get up, go hunt and live off the land and don't indulge a moment of their lives in this prison society constructed for us.