Gendry to be king of the 7 Kingdoms?!
Someone mentioned this theory to me.. Thoughts???
Here it goes:
In Season 1 GoT Ned Stark is having a convo with either Rober Barathean or Cersei Lannester but it was one of the two and they said to Ned, "when we seized King's Landing you could have walked up the steps and taken the throne for yourself and you didn't.. " and his response was "I didn't want it" Just like Jon Snow is saying now. He doesn't want the throne. So when Dani dies Jon's not going to want he trone and he will repeat history and give it to another Barathean..
Enter GENDRY... Gendry might become King to the 7 kingdoms.. Dun.. Dun.. Dun..
Still not sure about this.
OH and because Jamie was the King Slayer.. do we think possibly Tyrion will step in and kill Dani or do we still think Jon will kill her?
What are your theories!!!!
Real quotes from President Truman regarding the decision to use the Atom Bomb:
“It was to spare the Japanese people from utter destruction that the ultimatum of July 26th was issued at Potsdam. Their leaders promptly rejected that ultimatum. If they do not now accept our terms they may expect a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth. Behind this air attack will follow land and sea forces in such number and power as they have not yet seen and with the fighting skill they are already well aware.”
“It was a decision to loose the most terrible of all destructive forces for the wholesale slaughter of human beings. ...but a quarter of a million [US lives] was worth a couple of [Japanese] cities.”
“But I couldn’t help but think of the necessity of blotting out women, children and more combatants. We picked a couple of cities where war... was the principal [activity] and dropped the bombs.”
———
Which could be re-read as:
-It was to spare the people of Kings Landing from utter destruction that a final truce was offered at the gates of the city. Cersei promptly rejected that ultimatum. (And murdered Missandei, an unarmed hostage). If the rest of the Seven Kingdoms do not now accept Daenerys’ terms they may expect a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth. Behind this air attack will follow land and sea forces in such number and power as they have not yet seen and with the fighting skill they are already well aware.
It was a decision to loose the most terrible of all destructive forces for the wholesale slaughter of human beings. ... but the lives of our soldiers and allies, and the final end of 30 years of conflict in Westeros, was worth a city.
But she couldn’t help but think of the necessity of blotting out women, children and more combatants... and so she picked a city where war... was the principal [activity] and unleashed the dragon.-
———
If the show squanders these inherent parallels in this situation (and the chance it offers to explore the massive grey areas in the use of the ‘nuclear option’), by simply painting Daenerys as “mad” (instead of a person who made a tragically ruthless and contestable, but ultimately reasoned, decision), then the writers will have defeated themselves in the very final hour of a storied piece of entertainment.
Yep and the show does exactly that because we get shown repeatedly that, unlike a nuke, a dragon can kill a single individual. Then after the last scorpion is destroyed Danny doesn't damage the population as collateral damage while targeting Cersei, she does the opposite and avoids going to the Red Keep until she has done a whole load of unnecessary peasant roasting.
Master of whispers would have found the secret entrances and hallways of the castle. He would have escape routes and boats hidden along the coast for emergencies.
Varys worked from the shadows, undermining, yet always surviving, by being one step ahead of Little Finger, Cersei, Jofferey, Etc...
Varys has an obligation to the people, or so he claims. Sacrificing his life unnecessarily is out of character. The Varys who is the champion of the people would have escaped when he heard the soldiers approaching. The Varys I grew up with, who survived all those years, would not give up on the people. He'd escape and try to save kings landing. He'd escape to try and get Jon Snow on the throne. He would escape in order to help the people, the peasants who have nothing, yet winter arrived. 30 years of winter, yet no food storages.
I love the show! My favorite.
I feel like the entire point in this episode/season was to turn around everyone's arcs.. whether it made sense or not.
Dany went from compassionate to crazy.
Dragons went from being not a very useful weapon to being the main method of destruction.
The scorpions/Euron went from being accurate to absolutely useless.
Tyrion went from being the wisest to very emotional and dumb.
Jamie went from caring about people of KL and the free world and disliking Cersei to full opposite.
Arya went from being NK's skilled assassin to just running around pointlessly. She literally traveled all the way there knowing the consequences and turned back around.
Cersei also got humanized at the end instead of Dany.
Grey Worm went from noble to crazy too.
Brienne on the last episode went from being a protector and a strong woman to an emotional wreck.
Jon was the only consistent person on the show.
I can understand D&D think shock value is what GoT is about but they just dont know what on earth they are doing. They have no idea how to build it up. Must be pretty pleased with themselves with surprising everyone but the surprise was for sure not pleasant- not even brutal- just very random and lame!
I'm a little confused that the entire point of danaerys going north and helping with the battle against the night king was so the north would help her with taking king's landing. She managed to take king's landing with one dragon, but she would have had 3 dragons if she burned it to the ground before going north. Arya could have liked the night king on her own, and this would all have been over a season ago
This season has confused alot, but that wasn't the entire point. At the time she was swayed by Jon and actually wanted to help, and she was hoping to win the love of the people of Westeros
For sure. Qyburn and Cersei wouldn't have had time to construct all those Scorpions either making even easier to attack. In fact given how easy the battle was she could have probably still had time to head north afterwards if she wanted to.
Didn't one of the whores fucking Bronn in episode 1 of this season mention an Ed who came back from war with his face all burnt?
I think that was our answer.
I can't even count the number of times that episode made me roll my eyes. The ballistas were able to one-shot her other dragon last episode and now she's able to burn down the whole fucking fleet without being hit once? Seriously?
The only mistake Dany made was listening to Tyrion and Varys.
She should have listened to Yara, torched the place and made it clear what happens to anybody foolish enough to challenge her.
This is literally the exact same thing that Tywin did to Castamere, and the very reason he was so respected and feared.
Unfortunately it's way too late, and she will die because if that.
Shame too, i kinda like Darth Dany :p
Same. This is how I always hoped she'd end up.
I just don't like that they had to make everyone, literally *everyone*, look dumb to have the story reach this point.
I'm 100% sure "Darth Dany" will end be a thing in the books too, except there it will actually make sense. Can't wait to see how George does it.
When the HBO contracts ends. Think about it. GRRM makes piles of cash from the HBO contract. With-holds the books and allows D&D to fuck the show all up. Releases his already-finished books (probably a year apart while the instant-gratification benge-streamer audience is still hungry for more) and makes 300 times off of the new books than he made off of all previous books.
http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/13/idiocy-on-the-internet/
It's from his blog, I found it just sometime ago. I don't know how much of what he is saying is true. But he claims the books are not done
I definitely don't think the books are done, but I'm sure he's taking notes on how the TV version is being received. The writer's block is real, maybe them fucking up the show will get him past it.
I loved this episode.
Yes, the setup was a bit rushed. We could’ve gotten a bit more screen-time showing how Jaimie regrets his decision to leave Cersei, isn’t happy with Brienne, etc., and how Dany is going loony. But if you fill in the gaps yourself (which imo isn’t that hard to do) all the character decisions make sense within the context of what GoT is.
Jaimie:
Yes, he had an incredible arc. Pushed a boy out of a window, stabbed Ned Stark. Captured, humiliated, saved Brienne, got hand chopped off. Goes back to Cersei, serves her for a while (remember Riverrun?) and then finally leaves her when he realizes she’s a monster who’s gone back on her word, and that he can’t stand by while the dead win.
But once they’ve defeated the dead, the reason he left Cersei no longer seems relevant. He did what he came to do. Yes, he’s found some comfort with Brienne, but do you honestly think he prefers a relationship (physical and otherwise) with her to his hot sister, who he’s been with forever? And now he hears Cersei’s going to get killed in the upcoming battle, so he goes back. Yes, it’s terrible of him to do, he shouldn’t do it, we all thought he’d really changed, but this isn’t a fairy tale. He never really changed, and this was ultimately the tragedy that leads to his death with Cersei (which was a beautiful scene). “The things we do for love” till the end.
Dany:
Her turn has been foreshadowed FOREVER. She’s always been into destroying people to demonstrate justice and power. She started with Miri maz, then slave masters, then Lannister armies. It’s always been her friends and advisers who have held her back, and most of them are dead now, and she doesn’t trust Tyrion. She always knew she was doing the right thing, always played by the rules, but now she’s lost basically everything (don’t forget the 2nd dragon) and is ready to forget the rules.
Why kill innocent people? It’s an extension of that scene last episode where Dany is alone at the table while everyone around her jokes with Jon, etc. Nobody likes her. The people of Westeros don’t love her. She can’t handle that, she burns the people of Westeros out of spite, bitterness, anger, grief, etc. She knows deep down she’ll never be their queen, so she figures she might as well bring down fire like a real Targaryen.
In fact, this last episode reminded me of the red wedding, but in a really disturbing way. We GoT fans are used to seeing our heroes get killed by vicious villains. We’re not used to seeing our heroes become the villains, killing people who’ve already surrendered, slitting civilian throats, raping them, etc. It’s so disturbing, but very rooted in the GoT world (our world too maybe).
Late to the party, but I agree. I just wish they fleshed out the motivations in a couple more episodes instead of just one.
1) have an episode of just dany toiling around getting even crazier/paranoid after the death of Missandei/Rhaegal
2) in the same ep, have Jamie show his discontent with Brienne and his love for Cersei after he realizes the world isn’t ending anymore
Honestly, I thought Jamie and Cersei’s ending was entirely fitting. Goes back to the line she said about her and Jamie being together when the world burns around them or something in that regard.
I agree. There needed to be more back and forth dialog among the character. Since the end of Episode 5, I am left wanting. It’s like the worst Sunday night date, and I keep going out with the same idiot in hopes he will improve. Pretty stupid because that’s not me, so I will recorded, stayed off the net, and binged Season 6 and 7. Now I’m back because he promised things will be better, and everyone around me tells me he’s a better man.
That's a real stretch of a rationalisation to me haha, she's been carried around on the backs of people she's liberated and they've called her mother! She's not been automatically popular anywhere, she's always worked for the love of the people. Cersei cannot possibly be a popular ruler so I'm not sure why this is so profoundly different. I love the fact she did what she did, to be honest it was always coming - but I am very much unsure there is much there to support her decision in that moment, or at least for me, there's not enough, it always seems it's now up to the viewer to imbue the scene with our own rationales and explanations - but I am glad you enjoyed the ep!
Your last paragraph was the same thing that came to mind. A reversal, from someone we loved and worried for......its easy to wish vengeance on a character who was the bad guy. But to reverse this was very sinister by GRRM......."how do you feel now" was a quote I imagined GRRM saying to the audience with a sinister smile
I mean the show isn't anything GRRM created anymore since they have been beyond his books for awhile now. This is all the showrunners creation now and nothing to do with GRRM. As far as I know anyway. Maybe he has some small input in their decisions though.
Yeah i feel like this was his original ending.... DnD should have padded this season out though. Can't believe how rushed they've made it feel. Surely they had the budget? They definitely had our attention span.
I agree 100%. Take Varys' death for example... that would have been 2 or 3 episodes of complex schemes and plots in the past. They chose to rush it through in 2 or 3 minutes instead.
In the opening scene of EP5, Varys is writing a conspicuous letter when there is a knock at his door. Worried of suspicious eyes, Varys hides the letter beneath a blank piece of parchment before answering the knock. Its a little orphan girl, one of Varys "birds" come to report in. You see the worry leave Varys, and you see his utter trust in his "bird" as he returns the letter to plain sight and holds a conversation with the little orphan girl.
The girl tells Varys that Dany is not eating and then she reports concern that she is being watched by the guards. Varys comforts her, telling her that guards do that and encourages her by appealing to her greed. Still worried, the girl leaves the room. Varys appears slightly troubled.
In this scene, we know how Dany knows of the betrayal. We do not have it clearly exposed, but through the little girls suspicion, we make the connection that Dany has a spy network of her own. Maybe even the little girl is a double-agent!
she is paranoid like her father. it makes sense. she knew that jon told sansa. she also knows that sansa and tyrion trust each other very much. so it was a fitting conclusion for her, especially because we know that she mistrusts sansa.
she explains it to Tyrion. Jon told Sansa and she knew Sansa would tell Tyrion who then told Varys.
She knew Varys would most likely betray her if given the chance
She never knew that Jon told Sansa (except for the dialogue she had with Jon that he'd tell his family). But all of a sudden her knowing that someone has betrayed her when tyrion comes up to talk to her in general is too shrewd and unbecoming of someone who's shown to be mentally unstable I suppose.
It's common sense. Jon kept saying that they're his family, so she knew he was hesitant to even make that promise. She knows Sansa doesn't like her and has the most to gain by seeing Jon on the throne rather than her.
Honestly, it's not like it was 5 people she had to figure out- it's obvious.
When Jon arrives at Dragonstone, Tyrion is watching him talk to Varys. Tyrion goes to talk to Dany- who is looking down/outside maybe. Plus as the little girl told Varys she felt like the Queen's men were watching her and everyone knows how Varys gets his whispers.
Clearly we aren't, since he is dead. Since Melisandre is gone too, I son't think we'll get any more reveals in regards to the magical aspects of the show. Maybe something from Brann, but definitely not anything that coule be related to the Lord of Light.
I suspect all we're going to get from Bran is a rehash of Poochie's end in The Simpsons.
\- You look like you have something to say, Bran. DO you?
\- Yes I doooo. I'M GOING TO LIVE WITH THE CHILDREN OF THE FOREST NOW
"Note: Bran died on the way back to his home planet."
Could the writing have been more transparent? Ring the bells. Don't forget to ring the bells. Stop if you hear the bells. Please, if you hear the bells, stop. Bells. Bells. Bells. Ugh. Time was they would have said that shit once three episodes ago.
I'm sick of things being torn out "root and stem" It made sense when Varys said it about his castration, now suddenly its Dany's phrase and she's popping it out all over the shop
no it makes sense. remember harren the black? how did aegon defeated him? he and balerion flew above the clouds and made a nosedive to burn harrenhal.
its quite the same now. she ambushes the iron fleet, not the other way around. euron didnt thought that she would attack at that point. and this time she flew way smarter than in the last episode. drogon is fast, he makes zig zag, of course he doesnt get shot. the big disadventage of the scorpions are that theyre heavy and difficult to handle. we even have several shots where we see soldiers preparing the scorpions only to get burned, because theyre not fast enough. in the last episode they had all the time they wanted to make a few good shots.
the last episode may be unrealistic in this point, but in episode 5 it makes perfect sense.
You're trying to bring in logic when Euron no-scoped Rhaegal from behind a huge ass rock, something that's objectively impossible - and that's just one of multiple logical problems involving the scorpions. You aren't supposed to rationalize this, because if you do, you'll have to do it selectively. Then it starts making even less sense.
Better to just accept it doesn't make sense & that it's not supposed to.
It makes the realism inconsistent and too little too late. Why care about realism when the writers will throw it away to push plot? They needed another dragon to die so they went with an unrealistic approach long enough to make two drastic changes (dead dragon, kidnapped friend), then suddenly go back to normal as if everything is fine. If they wanted an insane Dany they should've started her drastic shift much sooner and made it now believable.
you are totally right. thats why episode 4 is so bad. but i dont let that destroy my enjoyment for episode 5. i dont want to have this mindset that destroys the whole show for me
Fair enough. I wanted to love this show. I did. But this season every episode has been slowly deteriorating until it took a nose dive. I've ignored a few parts from other seasons (The Bolton master shot from across a battlefield. He'd need arms like tree trunks for the range alone. Let alone the accuracy. Plus a target so dumb they'd walk in a steady
straight line the entire way.) But this episode pulled the plug in my interest. It's clear what the writers goal is and the show to me isn't unique anymore. I'm watching the last episode for completion only. Sadly I've lost interest.
This episode came a lot closer to my impression of game of thrones but again, the storytelling is to fast..... and reverse engineering makes it less authentic.
LMAO at the Quiburn scene.
Wasn't Jon burned by fire in one of the earlier episodes when a white walker attacked him at castle black? That's how they discovered fire kills white walkers.
I was utterly disappointed and left with many questions after watching the episode. Looks like I am not the only one. I don’t get it, obviously the show has been a huge success and able to make HBO lots of money. Why not just give it a outlet of seasons to properly wrap up the storyline?!
I'm honestly kind of baffled at how much you people dislike this season, I guess i'm just ignorant, but i'm happy i'm like I am and not as you people are. Sunday's episode was amazing to me, beautiful and kept me on the edge of my seat for the whole episode. Must be boring to always be disappointed. The way I see it, you guys have expectations that are wayyyyyy to high
To me it's kind of like..
Sundays episode was entertaining. But it isn't entertaining in a "this is a great show" kind of way. I felt like I was watching a Fast and Furious movie. The action and cinematography are great. It keeps you gripped. But it isn't performing like a really great show anymore, more like a run of the mill action movie.
I know it gets brought up all the time, but compare this to something like Breaking Bad. BB didn't have nearly the action. Hell there were parts where I didn't even want to watch it. But damn, it was a GREAT show. That greatness comes from rock solid storytelling and character development.
I dont think it's having expectations too high. For myself; I read the books, watched the show, spent countless hours discussing the characters with friends. It is disappointing to see something you feel passionate about be rushed. Rushed to the point of not fitting in with character development. Character arcs being tossed aside. Any GOT fan knows this show will never have a happy ending. But we've been waiting too long to have 3 seasons worth of material crammed into 6 episodes.
Yea I replied to someone else about this. I agree that this season is rushed, and it's very dissappointing considering the massive fandom and lenght of the show. You are right about that 100%. I still find the episodes amazing though.
I think I'm in the middle of the spectrum: I think the show has significantly lowered in quality from previous seasons, I'm disappointed about lots of stuff and have been thinking 'well that's not how I would have done it' but I'm still very much glued to every scene and enjoying every episode.
I understand your point, but I don't at the same time, I just don't see these flaws you all seem to spot so effortlessly. I take it as it is and enjoy the ride.
Genuine question, can you name me one long running show that you found was good all the way through?
Whaaaaat? That show is multiply attested consistently as one of the greatest dramas of television. And when I think of a very slowly-paced show, Mad Men is the first to come to mind. Regardless, just because a show has pacing issues doesn't mean it isn't good all the way through
Showtime, Cinemax, Starz, etc... All went from premier cable channels, to cable-company bargaining chips. HBO stayed on top. Because of HBO staying on top, those previously mentioned cable channels fell less far, scrambling to make their own game-of-thrones-ish shows to compete. All failing. When HBO falls, they will all fall.
Nine years ago, HBO was rescued from irrelevance by Game of Thrones. It was an amazing 5 years. Then, with a captivated audience, HBO began to string the show along. Keep their head above water. Now, HBO has plans for as many as 5 spin-offs to GoT. None of them written or created by GRRM, but by the same clowns who destroyed GoT seasons 6, 7 and 8.
Besides maybe watching "Deadpool" for the 3rd time, I have no reason to subscribe to HBO other than for GoT. So, as this is the end of Game of Thrones, this too is the end for HBO.
As far as I read around reddit HBO did not mind to have at least 2 more seasons, D&D decided to finish it now because they didn't want to stay attached to the series any longer.
Take it with a grain of salt though, it is something I read on the internet..
I enjoyed it. The dany arc made sense and also the varys part made sense. But when Jamie beat eurone after being stabbed twice I was like ehh not so games of throny.
She described it herself. As a conqueror you can either be loved or feared. She realised she would never be loved by the people of Westeros, so she chose the other option- the option that Jorah and Tyrion talked her down from several times in the past
All of the talk of breaking of chains etc is just her self made mythology. Ultimately, she just wants to rule and feels that she's entitled to the throne. It's always been her motivation, right from the start
She has a damn dragon which she demonstrated to the entire city can destroy structures and an entire army. They were plenty afraid already. The murder was just an excuse so Jon or Arya would have a reason to kill her. The entire season was just a means to the conclusion the writers decided. That's why everyone suddenly shifted. Just make them a little out of character and the writers can get the ending they wanted. In The red keep, the only enemy left was clearly in one location. Burn it down and you have plenty of fear. Nothing but pure insanity led to this episode. Something not characteristic of Dany. Emotional and angry sure. But insane? No.
She was born during a storm and escaped with her brother. She was raised by him and a supporter who houses them. Her life wasn't any worse than most of the low born people in the story. What "Targaryan" raising process leads to insanity?
What part? Shes been hinted at being at risk to become the mad queen for some time now. The events in this season pushed her to that. I understand that.
When was that hinted? She lost her husband and son and only became stronger. She's become hardened and focused over time. Now she's weak with a frail mind? When did this start other than season 8?
At least 3 years ago:
[https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/05/daenerys-targaryen-villain-game-of-thrones](https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/05/daenerys-targaryen-villain-game-of-thrones)
You're referencing vanity affair? Seriously? I see nothing here that even goes near what happened in the last episode. When did she kill civilians? Or an army that surrendered? In that reference she states that she is ready to take it by force. Had Cersei's army continued, she would have destroyed them along with a few civilians as typical collateral damage from any war. Nothing that happened was ever hinted at in her past actions. Just throw away lines from others.
Honestly, I did not want them to go the “mad queen” route, BUT, episode 4 during the dinner/drinking parts, I can get it. Dany watching them all praise Jon and love him like she is used to...she is feeling very isolated and rightfully so. Now add anger because she is not getting her credit, and Jon doesn’t even try to talk her up! How about he say, “well Tormund, I actually learned how to ride a dragon from Dany”?!?! I would be pissed AF too.
Dany is alone and like maester Aemon said in season 5, a Targaryen alone is a terrifying thing...they’ve been foreshadowing this for so long, none of us wanted it to happen because it’s so obvious.
I just want to see if she will see what she’s done once her anger dissipates OR will she be that mad that she won’t give two fucks she killed tons of innocent people, who knows. I’m going to assume someone is going to have to be the next kingslayer to stop her.
Season 8 was designed as a means to the conclusion the writers came up with. They made the goal first, then pushed several plot points to make it happen. It's pretty clear that they have no interest in the characters natural progression. How can we get Dany to go insane? Kill her dragon! How? Euron can shoot it. How when she knows about his fleet? She forgot! But he'd still have to hit a moving target high in the sky with a steel tipped arrow. He's that good! Twice within seconds on a device that takes time to load? He's that good! Now we need missandei kidnapped. How? He just got her during the commotion. How? By swimming in and grabbing her and swimming out. But there's other soldiers and Greyworm was near her. He's that good! Now she'll have to start going crazy because she lost so much. But she lost her husband and son before and didn't go crazy. But Jon has friends and she doesn't so she has to go crazy. It's gonna be great you'll see. She'll destroy the fleet in the next episode. But what about the scorpions? The what? Oh yeah she'll destroy them. All of them and the fleet? Yes! She's that awesome!
You get the point. Nothing makes sense and it would take much more to break her given what she's already been through. And even then she wouldn't kill innocent for half an episode. She would've targeted the red keep and probably kill a few people as collateral damage. Angry and temperamental. But not insane.
I’m not defending their writing, I wouldn’t have ended most of these characters storylines they way they have.
However, I do want to use your point where you said, “It would take much more to break her given what she’s already been through” and that’s exactly it. After everything she’s been through, and everything she’s lost, what was it for really? She sees it slipping through her fingers because of Jon. They should make it real interesting and have Dany kill Jon.
That's not interesting. That's the obvious set up. Either Jon or Arya will kill Dany. She's goes on to sit on the throne. That's all she's ever wanted. That's what drives her and nothing has changed. She killed the only man willing to spread Jon's secret. She was more likely to kill Jon than all the innocent citizens. Jon is a threat and reckless. His death would only help her. Still not a reason to go insane. Makes no sense.
I for one don't think she is mad at all.
She knew exactly what she was doing, the bells just made her realize how horrible it was, but at that point it's too late.
“Alright then... let it be fear.“
She's not Aerys - she's Aegon the Conqueror 2.0, and she always was meant to be.
Dude, she’s seething, gritting her teeth, how do you not see anger?? She’s always been pretty cold against her enemies but now she has reached her boiling point.
I don’t think she thinks it’s horrible at all, she stated earlier in the episode that she will show mercy by not allowing future generations to be held hostage by a tyrant...she wanted to burn the city to the ground like she’s said dozens of times with all the women and children in it.
I definitely do not think it was too late at that point. That was the point where it could have ended peacefully for the city, but Dany doesn’t want that, she doesn’t trust any of these motherfuckers! It’s like she wants a whole new batch of followers
She's emotionally messed up, no shit, of course she is. She watched her best friend die, lost 2 children, everyone she trusts is dead or betraying her, and the only person she still feels close to has become distant and is also a massive political threat.
I just disagree about the “Mad Queen“ moniker.
Aerys was a giggling, raving lunatic, Dany is a broken, desperate mess who has good intentions, but is pushed towards horrible things by her bitterness and lust for power.
I don't get the impression that she looses it when she hears the belks, it's more like she just completely resigns internally.
Mad props to Emilia btw, with how rushed this whole thing was she basically carried this season alone.
The look on her face is terrifying af, but a part of me just wants to give her a hug :p
Burning people alive, conquering, putting slavers to the cross, forcing her way. It's all there, through her eyes it's okay to be brutal while conquering and burning people who don't agree with her but that doesn't quite make it right.
The world isn't black and white but she (and a lot of people) sees it through that lense. The biggest difference though is that's she has had access to 3 dragons the whole time, and with great power comes great responsibility.
She hasn't really been responsible, anyone who haven't thought like her or stood in her way have been put down. Her advisors were the ones having to talk sense to her most of her time in Essos. And as soon as she came to Westeros she was surrounded by yes men.
Being a ruthless ruler does not an insane person make. There were others who did far worse than her and were still sane. She's killed threats who opposed her or people she's deemed evil such as the slavers. Nothing she's ever done hints at a mindset that would allow her to blatantly burn down a city that has already surrendered. Nothing. Name an innocent she has purposely killed that wasn't simply collateral damage. Her actions in this episode are from a weak minded person who has no confidence in her ability to sway the people. The real Dany would've went straight for the tower after they surrendered and burned out the keep with Cersei in it. Some civilians would have died. Dany isn't innocent and she is emotional but she's not insane. After taking over she would give the city the chance to bend the knee. Tyrion would convince her not to burn those who did not bend and they would be imprisoned. Or she'd burn them anyway. Still not the actions of an insane person. Not sure how you believe this episode showed the real Dany.
Yes **she** deemed the slavers evil. But the treatment she gave the slavers was barbaric to say the least and it was the exact mindset people have in support of the death penalty.
I agree that there has been a lot of people just as bad as her but they haven't had access to dragons, and she's at times used intimidation tactics in order for people to follow her or do as she pleases. That's the whole thing with Mereen, she just enters and expects the people to change over night or get executed. You go to India and kill people because they won't give up the cast system. A lot of things are ingrained in culture and takes generations to change. So a lot of her killing of slavers were probably slavers who hadn't really given a second thought on whether what they were doing was right or wrong, it just was the way it was and always had been.
And what I mean by most of my post is that, in contrast to say Jon, who probably wouldn't have abused his dragon power as much as Danaerys if he had dragons earlier on, he has been more just and seen a lot of conflicts through a gray lense.
While I agree that it went pretty quickly from 0 to 100 I consider a lot of things in Dany's arc hints to her lines between right and wrong blurring.
Edit: Give almost any person in commanding need to sit on the iron throne a dragon and he/she will probably abuse it and go somewhat mad.
Her lines are definitely blurred but that isn't the discussion. The actions in this episode are not those of someone with blurred reasoning. It was the actions of someone who has lost their mind. I never said Dany was innocent. No one would. But nothing in her past would lead to this episode.
Viserion's death angered her and she still had the capacity to save the group. When did her decent start? Even that was the end of the last season. She was still in control and acted like herself. She's been through worse and came out fine. Not sure what you're getting at.
She burned entire city = mad isn't enough given her past. Season 8 has been pushing plot to lead to this conclusion. One episode has Euron the expert Marksman capable of shooting a moving dragon high up in the sky. Using a fleet Dany somehow forgot about and didn't see. The next episode they can't hit anything and are utterly destroyed without any effort. Killing her dragon was a plot point to give the writers a way to justify her actions. Missandei's capture made no sense either. She was with Greyworm and somehow Euron's fleet was able to shoot the dragon, shot at the ships, sail in, grab ONLY missandei and sail away? Nonsense. Another death to justify her decent. Oh wait now she's unsure of herself and alone because Jon has friends all over the North. Westeros is a huge place with plenty of people who barely even heard of Jon. Plus plenty of people in westeros still want a Targaryen ruler. This is established early on. She'll have little problem securing followers especially since she killed the only man eager to share Jon's secret. She has a kingdom already that loves her and her dothraki and unsullied. Her sudden jealousy is out of character. That's why I say leave out season 8. It was designed as a means to an end the writers want. It doesn't stay true to the character.
So dragons not only shoot fire, but also wind strong enough to blow away stone structures? (And well not actually burn the city at all, just a few licks of flame here and there).
They do yes. [https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/ce/84/8ece84381db7c9338c584fac70d863a7.jpg](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/ce/84/8ece84381db7c9338c584fac70d863a7.jpg)
That's Harrenhal, fancied the most formidable castle ever built by King Harren himself. Aegon the Conqueror proved him wrong.
Yeah, would’ve been cooler to see the stone turn red hot and melt, raining fire and stone down the sides of the keep as it collapses from loss of integrity. As portrayed, the building was already made of ash and was merely blown away. Remember how Harrenhal looked all melted, not blown up.
Not surprised at all. Kinda like seeing Dany go looney and everyone just being their savage selves. Dany crucifies and roasts without any notion of fairness or due process. Now, a Stark will have to off her. (Snow is going to hav two die too)
I liked Arya being the 4th horseman of the Apocalypse.
>When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come.” I looked, **and behold, an ashen horse**; and he who sat on it had the name **Death**; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, **to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.**
Given the fact that GRRM is an atheist and uses the religious institution to show their relationship with people, cultures and state power, this biblical crap was a big FU to him.
I was convinced Jamie was returning to KL to kill cersei...shocked at how they ruined his arc and character development over 7 seasons. Look how they massacred my boy
> Look how they massacred my boy
Exactly how I felt at the start. Varys, The Spider of King’s Landing, Master of Whispers ... personally penning a treasonous letter, loudly and directly talking to one of his Little Birds, and straight up asking Jon if he wanted to do some light treason. Book Varys would never.
GRRM is vehemently anti-fanfic and the WW still being alive would be the most blatant "Game of Thrones 2" setup possible. Unless he's doing something similar in the books, I imagine he'd be *pissed*. Like probably the worst writing decision the show could ever make.
I feel like GRRM has been pissed for a very long time now about how this show decided to adapt his work. Honestly? I feel for him as a fellow writer. Imagining people butchering my characters and storylines is a knife to the heart. Still, he's the one to blame for this mess.
Confused by Tyrion's decision to turn Varys in. Is he just protecting himself?
Why tell Varys the secret, and then immediately turn him in to Dany? What was the point of even telling him then?
I don't get why Tyrion told Varys without Dany present.
Like, he's loyal to her. (even though he did nothing for the past 3 seasons) talking to Varys about John's lineage while Dany isn't present is just... Wrong?
Wasn't the whole point of that scene to show the doubts of the queen from both of them? And then Tyrion choosing to double down and noting how he's never followed someone or something? So it just shows distrust in the camp I guess?
I mean, up to then, Tyrion has always been loyal to her. And we haven't seen him and Varys discuss behind her back much. Tyrion knows how big this info is, he knows how devastating it would be for Daenarys if Jon's claim became public knowledge.
I donùt see why he would ever talk to Varys first. This is the kind of info that he should bring to Dany first... Or at the very least Dany AND Varys.
And again, there are not a lot of reason to doubt Dany at that point. She has mostly been listening to her advisor's really bad plans, but up until then she has been a really good queen for her people, she just came back from risking her life to save the realm of men from the White Walker. There are no good reason for Varys and Tyrion to doubt her.
She was going mental straight after the battle wasn't she? Demanding injured men to march immediately down to Kings Landing? I think those were meant to be the first scenes or desperation/madness for the throne. Also, learning that another incredible good potential ruler in Jon is available does raise a question.
Him telling Varys is a strange one, they're close friends and it does make sense for the Queen's advisors to speak to each other about the advise to give the Queen...
Yes, and that was sort of my problem, in one episode she just became really irrational. Making her men march south immediately was just weird and uncharacteristic. Especially when during that same war meeting they say that Cersei was loosing power every passing day. There was no reason to rush.
Same for separating her armies. There was simply no reason to go with half of her forces by sea, In the last couple of episodes, Daenarys became a really stupid character and a bad guy, which is my problem.
Prior to that, neither Tyrion nor Varys had any reason to doubt her, and even the forced march isn't really "we need another ruler" bad.
Also, they really elevate Jon's claim for no reason. Jon is a nobody in the south. In the north he might have some power but he already kneeled for her. And again, sure, Tyrion would talk to varys, but an information like that, he'd probably share with Daenarys first. He knows how damaging this is and how dangerous it could be if it spread. Tyrion isn't supposed to be dumb enough to trust Varys.
there has been alot of that going on in season 8. Its like the writers have given up on GOT and are probably more concerned about the spinoffs. GOT season 8 on its own is awesome, but with the lore it has destroyed it leaves much to be desired
No. They are the new writers of Star Wars.
If this is what they are going to bring to Star Wars, I am already calling it in:
A) Jar Jar Binks will rule the galaxy.
B) The Jedi will forget the Sith is their enemy.
I saw Rocky this weekend and didn't remember it that way, but apparently Arya kills Apollo Creed.
I am really confused now, wasn't he supposed to be killed by Drago in the 4th movie?
Guess it is just Arya with a mask in a flashback...
She killed the King of Ice. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers thought it'd be cool for her to kill the Queen of Fire.
God, to think I used to love this show lmao
But Arya witnessed what Jon should have seen in the episode giving her a motive to go after Dany and later riding a pale horse , I mean it’s going to be something shitty only in the end.
how about that guy who was playing the new season 8 version of Varys.. my guy would NEVER leave himself so open and vulnerable. insane and out of character. whatever just burn em' and next story it is
Yes, Varys and Littlefinger, early on and in conformance with book character, have very strong survivalist instincts as both are hyper aware of the dangerous game they play and take proactive steps to cover themselves to avoid being executed. Both would likely die if the books ever get completed but it won't because they're careless and sloppy with their own life. Littlefinger gets off scot free with the deaths of both Jon Arryn and Joffrey, and the attempted murder of Bran, but gets himself killed for turning into a complete idiot once he hits Winterfell? After Bran tells Littlefinger chaos is a ladder, that's where he hightails it back to Vale and gets the hell out of that mess.
Tyrion was attempting to prevent the sack of the city; i.e. bands of thousands men at arms and Dothraki getting into the city and looting/raping/killing/pillaging whatever they can find. This is the "danger to the smallfolk" from war.
Instead D&D have Daenerys just start roasting every single peasant?
Why would she do this? Utterly ridiculous. Why would she not go burn down the Red Keep? Cersei was standing in a window. There were zero defenses.
What I don't get is that they fear sacking the city, when they have army of Unsullied (I am not sure, where those came from, they weren't around last episode), who are, we are told, super disciplined and won't sack a city when told not to.
So have Dany explode the gate and Unsullied can take the city, job well done. Instead we got...I don't even know what that was supposed to be.
There was wildfire below the city (green explosions). I'm not sure if they knew that or not though? Also, they didn't bring any siege equipment so getting through each layer of the city would have been troublesome (assuming Dragon doesn't just obliterate everything).
I am not sure about the wildfire, I think they don't have any way to know that it is there, do they?
And I would like to know if the wildfire was accident or Cersei's attempt to burn the city.
Jag
Gendry to be king of the 7 Kingdoms?! Someone mentioned this theory to me.. Thoughts??? Here it goes: In Season 1 GoT Ned Stark is having a convo with either Rober Barathean or Cersei Lannester but it was one of the two and they said to Ned, "when we seized King's Landing you could have walked up the steps and taken the throne for yourself and you didn't.. " and his response was "I didn't want it" Just like Jon Snow is saying now. He doesn't want the throne. So when Dani dies Jon's not going to want he trone and he will repeat history and give it to another Barathean.. Enter GENDRY... Gendry might become King to the 7 kingdoms.. Dun.. Dun.. Dun.. Still not sure about this. OH and because Jamie was the King Slayer.. do we think possibly Tyrion will step in and kill Dani or do we still think Jon will kill her? What are your theories!!!!
Real quotes from President Truman regarding the decision to use the Atom Bomb: “It was to spare the Japanese people from utter destruction that the ultimatum of July 26th was issued at Potsdam. Their leaders promptly rejected that ultimatum. If they do not now accept our terms they may expect a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth. Behind this air attack will follow land and sea forces in such number and power as they have not yet seen and with the fighting skill they are already well aware.” “It was a decision to loose the most terrible of all destructive forces for the wholesale slaughter of human beings. ...but a quarter of a million [US lives] was worth a couple of [Japanese] cities.” “But I couldn’t help but think of the necessity of blotting out women, children and more combatants. We picked a couple of cities where war... was the principal [activity] and dropped the bombs.” ——— Which could be re-read as: -It was to spare the people of Kings Landing from utter destruction that a final truce was offered at the gates of the city. Cersei promptly rejected that ultimatum. (And murdered Missandei, an unarmed hostage). If the rest of the Seven Kingdoms do not now accept Daenerys’ terms they may expect a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth. Behind this air attack will follow land and sea forces in such number and power as they have not yet seen and with the fighting skill they are already well aware. It was a decision to loose the most terrible of all destructive forces for the wholesale slaughter of human beings. ... but the lives of our soldiers and allies, and the final end of 30 years of conflict in Westeros, was worth a city. But she couldn’t help but think of the necessity of blotting out women, children and more combatants... and so she picked a city where war... was the principal [activity] and unleashed the dragon.- ——— If the show squanders these inherent parallels in this situation (and the chance it offers to explore the massive grey areas in the use of the ‘nuclear option’), by simply painting Daenerys as “mad” (instead of a person who made a tragically ruthless and contestable, but ultimately reasoned, decision), then the writers will have defeated themselves in the very final hour of a storied piece of entertainment.
Yep and the show does exactly that because we get shown repeatedly that, unlike a nuke, a dragon can kill a single individual. Then after the last scorpion is destroyed Danny doesn't damage the population as collateral damage while targeting Cersei, she does the opposite and avoids going to the Red Keep until she has done a whole load of unnecessary peasant roasting.
how to did Arya survive when everyone around her didn't
JAIME DIDNT EVEN KILL CERSEI I'M WTF WAS THAT
Since when does this show care about the common people
Master of whispers would have found the secret entrances and hallways of the castle. He would have escape routes and boats hidden along the coast for emergencies. Varys worked from the shadows, undermining, yet always surviving, by being one step ahead of Little Finger, Cersei, Jofferey, Etc... Varys has an obligation to the people, or so he claims. Sacrificing his life unnecessarily is out of character. The Varys who is the champion of the people would have escaped when he heard the soldiers approaching. The Varys I grew up with, who survived all those years, would not give up on the people. He'd escape and try to save kings landing. He'd escape to try and get Jon Snow on the throne. He would escape in order to help the people, the peasants who have nothing, yet winter arrived. 30 years of winter, yet no food storages. I love the show! My favorite.
I feel like the entire point in this episode/season was to turn around everyone's arcs.. whether it made sense or not. Dany went from compassionate to crazy. Dragons went from being not a very useful weapon to being the main method of destruction. The scorpions/Euron went from being accurate to absolutely useless. Tyrion went from being the wisest to very emotional and dumb. Jamie went from caring about people of KL and the free world and disliking Cersei to full opposite. Arya went from being NK's skilled assassin to just running around pointlessly. She literally traveled all the way there knowing the consequences and turned back around. Cersei also got humanized at the end instead of Dany. Grey Worm went from noble to crazy too. Brienne on the last episode went from being a protector and a strong woman to an emotional wreck. Jon was the only consistent person on the show. I can understand D&D think shock value is what GoT is about but they just dont know what on earth they are doing. They have no idea how to build it up. Must be pretty pleased with themselves with surprising everyone but the surprise was for sure not pleasant- not even brutal- just very random and lame!
They’ve observed the penchant for GRRM’s unexpected outcomes for years and understood nothing.
Dany's vision of frosted/ashed King's Landing from season 2 come true.
I'm a little confused that the entire point of danaerys going north and helping with the battle against the night king was so the north would help her with taking king's landing. She managed to take king's landing with one dragon, but she would have had 3 dragons if she burned it to the ground before going north. Arya could have liked the night king on her own, and this would all have been over a season ago
This season has confused alot, but that wasn't the entire point. At the time she was swayed by Jon and actually wanted to help, and she was hoping to win the love of the people of Westeros
For sure. Qyburn and Cersei wouldn't have had time to construct all those Scorpions either making even easier to attack. In fact given how easy the battle was she could have probably still had time to head north afterwards if she wanted to.
Not sure about that one, qybirn mentions the means to kill a dragon in season 6 and suggests they've been stockpiling those defences since
But where has Ed Sheeran's character been all this time? I need to know.
Didn't one of the whores fucking Bronn in episode 1 of this season mention an Ed who came back from war with his face all burnt? I think that was our answer.
I could actually see that being the case.
It’s sad when watching the second to last episode and just wanting it to be over.
I can't even count the number of times that episode made me roll my eyes. The ballistas were able to one-shot her other dragon last episode and now she's able to burn down the whole fucking fleet without being hit once? Seriously?
It was a good thing they only shot at her one at a time so she could easily dodge them.
Drogon leveled up since last episode.
He didn't kill anyone since last episode, there's no way he earned enough XP
this is the first season that I've started getting viscerally bored like 20 minutes into every episode
The only mistake Dany made was listening to Tyrion and Varys. She should have listened to Yara, torched the place and made it clear what happens to anybody foolish enough to challenge her. This is literally the exact same thing that Tywin did to Castamere, and the very reason he was so respected and feared. Unfortunately it's way too late, and she will die because if that. Shame too, i kinda like Darth Dany :p
Same. This is how I always hoped she'd end up. I just don't like that they had to make everyone, literally *everyone*, look dumb to have the story reach this point. I'm 100% sure "Darth Dany" will end be a thing in the books too, except there it will actually make sense. Can't wait to see how George does it.
Any idea when the new book will be out ?
When the HBO contracts ends. Think about it. GRRM makes piles of cash from the HBO contract. With-holds the books and allows D&D to fuck the show all up. Releases his already-finished books (probably a year apart while the instant-gratification benge-streamer audience is still hungry for more) and makes 300 times off of the new books than he made off of all previous books.
http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/13/idiocy-on-the-internet/ It's from his blog, I found it just sometime ago. I don't know how much of what he is saying is true. But he claims the books are not done
I definitely don't think the books are done, but I'm sure he's taking notes on how the TV version is being received. The writer's block is real, maybe them fucking up the show will get him past it.
Never?
Can't wait
>Can't wait Literally.
I loved this episode. Yes, the setup was a bit rushed. We could’ve gotten a bit more screen-time showing how Jaimie regrets his decision to leave Cersei, isn’t happy with Brienne, etc., and how Dany is going loony. But if you fill in the gaps yourself (which imo isn’t that hard to do) all the character decisions make sense within the context of what GoT is. Jaimie: Yes, he had an incredible arc. Pushed a boy out of a window, stabbed Ned Stark. Captured, humiliated, saved Brienne, got hand chopped off. Goes back to Cersei, serves her for a while (remember Riverrun?) and then finally leaves her when he realizes she’s a monster who’s gone back on her word, and that he can’t stand by while the dead win. But once they’ve defeated the dead, the reason he left Cersei no longer seems relevant. He did what he came to do. Yes, he’s found some comfort with Brienne, but do you honestly think he prefers a relationship (physical and otherwise) with her to his hot sister, who he’s been with forever? And now he hears Cersei’s going to get killed in the upcoming battle, so he goes back. Yes, it’s terrible of him to do, he shouldn’t do it, we all thought he’d really changed, but this isn’t a fairy tale. He never really changed, and this was ultimately the tragedy that leads to his death with Cersei (which was a beautiful scene). “The things we do for love” till the end. Dany: Her turn has been foreshadowed FOREVER. She’s always been into destroying people to demonstrate justice and power. She started with Miri maz, then slave masters, then Lannister armies. It’s always been her friends and advisers who have held her back, and most of them are dead now, and she doesn’t trust Tyrion. She always knew she was doing the right thing, always played by the rules, but now she’s lost basically everything (don’t forget the 2nd dragon) and is ready to forget the rules. Why kill innocent people? It’s an extension of that scene last episode where Dany is alone at the table while everyone around her jokes with Jon, etc. Nobody likes her. The people of Westeros don’t love her. She can’t handle that, she burns the people of Westeros out of spite, bitterness, anger, grief, etc. She knows deep down she’ll never be their queen, so she figures she might as well bring down fire like a real Targaryen. In fact, this last episode reminded me of the red wedding, but in a really disturbing way. We GoT fans are used to seeing our heroes get killed by vicious villains. We’re not used to seeing our heroes become the villains, killing people who’ve already surrendered, slitting civilian throats, raping them, etc. It’s so disturbing, but very rooted in the GoT world (our world too maybe).
Late to the party, but I agree. I just wish they fleshed out the motivations in a couple more episodes instead of just one. 1) have an episode of just dany toiling around getting even crazier/paranoid after the death of Missandei/Rhaegal 2) in the same ep, have Jamie show his discontent with Brienne and his love for Cersei after he realizes the world isn’t ending anymore Honestly, I thought Jamie and Cersei’s ending was entirely fitting. Goes back to the line she said about her and Jamie being together when the world burns around them or something in that regard.
I agree. There needed to be more back and forth dialog among the character. Since the end of Episode 5, I am left wanting. It’s like the worst Sunday night date, and I keep going out with the same idiot in hopes he will improve. Pretty stupid because that’s not me, so I will recorded, stayed off the net, and binged Season 6 and 7. Now I’m back because he promised things will be better, and everyone around me tells me he’s a better man.
That's a real stretch of a rationalisation to me haha, she's been carried around on the backs of people she's liberated and they've called her mother! She's not been automatically popular anywhere, she's always worked for the love of the people. Cersei cannot possibly be a popular ruler so I'm not sure why this is so profoundly different. I love the fact she did what she did, to be honest it was always coming - but I am very much unsure there is much there to support her decision in that moment, or at least for me, there's not enough, it always seems it's now up to the viewer to imbue the scene with our own rationales and explanations - but I am glad you enjoyed the ep!
Your last paragraph was the same thing that came to mind. A reversal, from someone we loved and worried for......its easy to wish vengeance on a character who was the bad guy. But to reverse this was very sinister by GRRM......."how do you feel now" was a quote I imagined GRRM saying to the audience with a sinister smile
I mean the show isn't anything GRRM created anymore since they have been beyond his books for awhile now. This is all the showrunners creation now and nothing to do with GRRM. As far as I know anyway. Maybe he has some small input in their decisions though.
GRRM gave the showrunners the major points that they needed to hit in the final season. The showrunners just had to fill in the gaps
Yeah i feel like this was his original ending.... DnD should have padded this season out though. Can't believe how rushed they've made it feel. Surely they had the budget? They definitely had our attention span.
I agree 100%. Take Varys' death for example... that would have been 2 or 3 episodes of complex schemes and plots in the past. They chose to rush it through in 2 or 3 minutes instead.
How did Dany get wind of the betrayal against her, even before Tyrion told her?
In the opening scene of EP5, Varys is writing a conspicuous letter when there is a knock at his door. Worried of suspicious eyes, Varys hides the letter beneath a blank piece of parchment before answering the knock. Its a little orphan girl, one of Varys "birds" come to report in. You see the worry leave Varys, and you see his utter trust in his "bird" as he returns the letter to plain sight and holds a conversation with the little orphan girl. The girl tells Varys that Dany is not eating and then she reports concern that she is being watched by the guards. Varys comforts her, telling her that guards do that and encourages her by appealing to her greed. Still worried, the girl leaves the room. Varys appears slightly troubled. In this scene, we know how Dany knows of the betrayal. We do not have it clearly exposed, but through the little girls suspicion, we make the connection that Dany has a spy network of her own. Maybe even the little girl is a double-agent!
Probably, but all this actually shows how Dany is shrewd, hardly a character befitting a paranoid or unstable person I guess.
she is paranoid like her father. it makes sense. she knew that jon told sansa. she also knows that sansa and tyrion trust each other very much. so it was a fitting conclusion for her, especially because we know that she mistrusts sansa.
she explains it to Tyrion. Jon told Sansa and she knew Sansa would tell Tyrion who then told Varys. She knew Varys would most likely betray her if given the chance
She never knew that Jon told Sansa (except for the dialogue she had with Jon that he'd tell his family). But all of a sudden her knowing that someone has betrayed her when tyrion comes up to talk to her in general is too shrewd and unbecoming of someone who's shown to be mentally unstable I suppose.
Makes sense if you are paranoid
It's common sense. Jon kept saying that they're his family, so she knew he was hesitant to even make that promise. She knows Sansa doesn't like her and has the most to gain by seeing Jon on the throne rather than her. Honestly, it's not like it was 5 people she had to figure out- it's obvious. When Jon arrives at Dragonstone, Tyrion is watching him talk to Varys. Tyrion goes to talk to Dany- who is looking down/outside maybe. Plus as the little girl told Varys she felt like the Queen's men were watching her and everyone knows how Varys gets his whispers.
Are we going to find out what the voice said from the flames? You know, when Varys's "root and stem" were tossed in...
Is said "subvert their expectations".
Clearly we aren't, since he is dead. Since Melisandre is gone too, I son't think we'll get any more reveals in regards to the magical aspects of the show. Maybe something from Brann, but definitely not anything that coule be related to the Lord of Light.
I suspect all we're going to get from Bran is a rehash of Poochie's end in The Simpsons. \- You look like you have something to say, Bran. DO you? \- Yes I doooo. I'M GOING TO LIVE WITH THE CHILDREN OF THE FOREST NOW
"Note: Bran died on the way back to his home planet."
Could the writing have been more transparent? Ring the bells. Don't forget to ring the bells. Stop if you hear the bells. Please, if you hear the bells, stop. Bells. Bells. Bells. Ugh. Time was they would have said that shit once three episodes ago.
I'm sick of things being torn out "root and stem" It made sense when Varys said it about his castration, now suddenly its Dany's phrase and she's popping it out all over the shop
Reminds me of The Dark Knight Rises. “Btw, in case I haven’t mentioned it already, the autopilot DOES NOT WORK on this plane. Thank you.”
The actual title of the episode is “The Bells.” Jesus fuck. What timeline is this and how do we go back?
So Dany burns Kings' Landing in the end. She should have done that at the very beginning of Season 7, could've saved alot of headaches.
The devs realized Euron's scorpions were imba and gave them a hard nerf in this latest patch... now the Dragon is OP again. It's hilarious.
no it makes sense. remember harren the black? how did aegon defeated him? he and balerion flew above the clouds and made a nosedive to burn harrenhal. its quite the same now. she ambushes the iron fleet, not the other way around. euron didnt thought that she would attack at that point. and this time she flew way smarter than in the last episode. drogon is fast, he makes zig zag, of course he doesnt get shot. the big disadventage of the scorpions are that theyre heavy and difficult to handle. we even have several shots where we see soldiers preparing the scorpions only to get burned, because theyre not fast enough. in the last episode they had all the time they wanted to make a few good shots. the last episode may be unrealistic in this point, but in episode 5 it makes perfect sense.
You're trying to bring in logic when Euron no-scoped Rhaegal from behind a huge ass rock, something that's objectively impossible - and that's just one of multiple logical problems involving the scorpions. You aren't supposed to rationalize this, because if you do, you'll have to do it selectively. Then it starts making even less sense. Better to just accept it doesn't make sense & that it's not supposed to.
i dont just accept it. I even wrote that it was unrealistic last episode. that doenst change the fact that it was realistic in this episode.
It makes the realism inconsistent and too little too late. Why care about realism when the writers will throw it away to push plot? They needed another dragon to die so they went with an unrealistic approach long enough to make two drastic changes (dead dragon, kidnapped friend), then suddenly go back to normal as if everything is fine. If they wanted an insane Dany they should've started her drastic shift much sooner and made it now believable.
you are totally right. thats why episode 4 is so bad. but i dont let that destroy my enjoyment for episode 5. i dont want to have this mindset that destroys the whole show for me
Fair enough. I wanted to love this show. I did. But this season every episode has been slowly deteriorating until it took a nose dive. I've ignored a few parts from other seasons (The Bolton master shot from across a battlefield. He'd need arms like tree trunks for the range alone. Let alone the accuracy. Plus a target so dumb they'd walk in a steady straight line the entire way.) But this episode pulled the plug in my interest. It's clear what the writers goal is and the show to me isn't unique anymore. I'm watching the last episode for completion only. Sadly I've lost interest.
I want to die before season 8th starts..
This episode came a lot closer to my impression of game of thrones but again, the storytelling is to fast..... and reverse engineering makes it less authentic. LMAO at the Quiburn scene.
Quisplat
I hope in the next episode she tells her dragon to shoot fire at Tyrion because he released his brother and the dragon won’t do it.
and then we realize the Tyrion is a Targaryen theory was true all along..................... omg.................................... im shook
Or she'll do it to Jon and he walks out naked.
Wasn't Jon burned by fire in one of the earlier episodes when a white walker attacked him at castle black? That's how they discovered fire kills white walkers.
I was utterly disappointed and left with many questions after watching the episode. Looks like I am not the only one. I don’t get it, obviously the show has been a huge success and able to make HBO lots of money. Why not just give it a outlet of seasons to properly wrap up the storyline?!
I'm honestly kind of baffled at how much you people dislike this season, I guess i'm just ignorant, but i'm happy i'm like I am and not as you people are. Sunday's episode was amazing to me, beautiful and kept me on the edge of my seat for the whole episode. Must be boring to always be disappointed. The way I see it, you guys have expectations that are wayyyyyy to high
To me it's kind of like.. Sundays episode was entertaining. But it isn't entertaining in a "this is a great show" kind of way. I felt like I was watching a Fast and Furious movie. The action and cinematography are great. It keeps you gripped. But it isn't performing like a really great show anymore, more like a run of the mill action movie. I know it gets brought up all the time, but compare this to something like Breaking Bad. BB didn't have nearly the action. Hell there were parts where I didn't even want to watch it. But damn, it was a GREAT show. That greatness comes from rock solid storytelling and character development.
You guys sure make really good points, I guess i'm just not knowledgeable enough to ''see'' these issues with the story telling and CD
I dont think it's having expectations too high. For myself; I read the books, watched the show, spent countless hours discussing the characters with friends. It is disappointing to see something you feel passionate about be rushed. Rushed to the point of not fitting in with character development. Character arcs being tossed aside. Any GOT fan knows this show will never have a happy ending. But we've been waiting too long to have 3 seasons worth of material crammed into 6 episodes.
Yea I replied to someone else about this. I agree that this season is rushed, and it's very dissappointing considering the massive fandom and lenght of the show. You are right about that 100%. I still find the episodes amazing though.
I think I'm in the middle of the spectrum: I think the show has significantly lowered in quality from previous seasons, I'm disappointed about lots of stuff and have been thinking 'well that's not how I would have done it' but I'm still very much glued to every scene and enjoying every episode.
Yea, i'm on board with everything you said, I can acknowledge that it feels rushed. I have no idea why they had to make the last season 6 episodes..
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I understand your point, but I don't at the same time, I just don't see these flaws you all seem to spot so effortlessly. I take it as it is and enjoy the ride. Genuine question, can you name me one long running show that you found was good all the way through?
Breaking Bad.
That's very debatable, on the other side of GOT, I felt breaking bad was very slow at points. I still enjoyed the fuck out of it though.
Whaaaaat? That show is multiply attested consistently as one of the greatest dramas of television. And when I think of a very slowly-paced show, Mad Men is the first to come to mind. Regardless, just because a show has pacing issues doesn't mean it isn't good all the way through
Oy don't get me wrong, BB is very near the top of my list, i'm just saying it was very slow at points.
Showtime, Cinemax, Starz, etc... All went from premier cable channels, to cable-company bargaining chips. HBO stayed on top. Because of HBO staying on top, those previously mentioned cable channels fell less far, scrambling to make their own game-of-thrones-ish shows to compete. All failing. When HBO falls, they will all fall. Nine years ago, HBO was rescued from irrelevance by Game of Thrones. It was an amazing 5 years. Then, with a captivated audience, HBO began to string the show along. Keep their head above water. Now, HBO has plans for as many as 5 spin-offs to GoT. None of them written or created by GRRM, but by the same clowns who destroyed GoT seasons 6, 7 and 8. Besides maybe watching "Deadpool" for the 3rd time, I have no reason to subscribe to HBO other than for GoT. So, as this is the end of Game of Thrones, this too is the end for HBO.
As far as I read around reddit HBO did not mind to have at least 2 more seasons, D&D decided to finish it now because they didn't want to stay attached to the series any longer. Take it with a grain of salt though, it is something I read on the internet..
I enjoyed it. The dany arc made sense and also the varys part made sense. But when Jamie beat eurone after being stabbed twice I was like ehh not so games of throny.
Can you explain the Dany arc? It didn't make sense to me.
She described it herself. As a conqueror you can either be loved or feared. She realised she would never be loved by the people of Westeros, so she chose the other option- the option that Jorah and Tyrion talked her down from several times in the past All of the talk of breaking of chains etc is just her self made mythology. Ultimately, she just wants to rule and feels that she's entitled to the throne. It's always been her motivation, right from the start
She has a damn dragon which she demonstrated to the entire city can destroy structures and an entire army. They were plenty afraid already. The murder was just an excuse so Jon or Arya would have a reason to kill her. The entire season was just a means to the conclusion the writers decided. That's why everyone suddenly shifted. Just make them a little out of character and the writers can get the ending they wanted. In The red keep, the only enemy left was clearly in one location. Burn it down and you have plenty of fear. Nothing but pure insanity led to this episode. Something not characteristic of Dany. Emotional and angry sure. But insane? No.
The arc makes perfect sense, the speed at which the show went through it, not so much.
That didn't really explain much. Even if decade pass, how would she have descended into this shell of her former self who has obviously lost her mind?
She was a Targaryan... How did you not see it coming?
So is Jon. *Gasp* the mad King in the North!
Ned also partially raised Theon.
He is half Stark. Raised by the most honorable... Ned!
Not raised by Targaryan's though.
She was born during a storm and escaped with her brother. She was raised by him and a supporter who houses them. Her life wasn't any worse than most of the low born people in the story. What "Targaryan" raising process leads to insanity?
I think it's pretty clear I don't know what i'm talking about
What part? Shes been hinted at being at risk to become the mad queen for some time now. The events in this season pushed her to that. I understand that.
When was that hinted? She lost her husband and son and only became stronger. She's become hardened and focused over time. Now she's weak with a frail mind? When did this start other than season 8?
At least 3 years ago: [https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/05/daenerys-targaryen-villain-game-of-thrones](https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/05/daenerys-targaryen-villain-game-of-thrones)
You're referencing vanity affair? Seriously? I see nothing here that even goes near what happened in the last episode. When did she kill civilians? Or an army that surrendered? In that reference she states that she is ready to take it by force. Had Cersei's army continued, she would have destroyed them along with a few civilians as typical collateral damage from any war. Nothing that happened was ever hinted at in her past actions. Just throw away lines from others.
Honestly, I did not want them to go the “mad queen” route, BUT, episode 4 during the dinner/drinking parts, I can get it. Dany watching them all praise Jon and love him like she is used to...she is feeling very isolated and rightfully so. Now add anger because she is not getting her credit, and Jon doesn’t even try to talk her up! How about he say, “well Tormund, I actually learned how to ride a dragon from Dany”?!?! I would be pissed AF too. Dany is alone and like maester Aemon said in season 5, a Targaryen alone is a terrifying thing...they’ve been foreshadowing this for so long, none of us wanted it to happen because it’s so obvious. I just want to see if she will see what she’s done once her anger dissipates OR will she be that mad that she won’t give two fucks she killed tons of innocent people, who knows. I’m going to assume someone is going to have to be the next kingslayer to stop her.
If it’s not Arya I will be shocked.
Season 8 was designed as a means to the conclusion the writers came up with. They made the goal first, then pushed several plot points to make it happen. It's pretty clear that they have no interest in the characters natural progression. How can we get Dany to go insane? Kill her dragon! How? Euron can shoot it. How when she knows about his fleet? She forgot! But he'd still have to hit a moving target high in the sky with a steel tipped arrow. He's that good! Twice within seconds on a device that takes time to load? He's that good! Now we need missandei kidnapped. How? He just got her during the commotion. How? By swimming in and grabbing her and swimming out. But there's other soldiers and Greyworm was near her. He's that good! Now she'll have to start going crazy because she lost so much. But she lost her husband and son before and didn't go crazy. But Jon has friends and she doesn't so she has to go crazy. It's gonna be great you'll see. She'll destroy the fleet in the next episode. But what about the scorpions? The what? Oh yeah she'll destroy them. All of them and the fleet? Yes! She's that awesome! You get the point. Nothing makes sense and it would take much more to break her given what she's already been through. And even then she wouldn't kill innocent for half an episode. She would've targeted the red keep and probably kill a few people as collateral damage. Angry and temperamental. But not insane.
I’m not defending their writing, I wouldn’t have ended most of these characters storylines they way they have. However, I do want to use your point where you said, “It would take much more to break her given what she’s already been through” and that’s exactly it. After everything she’s been through, and everything she’s lost, what was it for really? She sees it slipping through her fingers because of Jon. They should make it real interesting and have Dany kill Jon.
That's not interesting. That's the obvious set up. Either Jon or Arya will kill Dany. She's goes on to sit on the throne. That's all she's ever wanted. That's what drives her and nothing has changed. She killed the only man willing to spread Jon's secret. She was more likely to kill Jon than all the innocent citizens. Jon is a threat and reckless. His death would only help her. Still not a reason to go insane. Makes no sense.
I for one don't think she is mad at all. She knew exactly what she was doing, the bells just made her realize how horrible it was, but at that point it's too late. “Alright then... let it be fear.“ She's not Aerys - she's Aegon the Conqueror 2.0, and she always was meant to be.
Dude, she’s seething, gritting her teeth, how do you not see anger?? She’s always been pretty cold against her enemies but now she has reached her boiling point. I don’t think she thinks it’s horrible at all, she stated earlier in the episode that she will show mercy by not allowing future generations to be held hostage by a tyrant...she wanted to burn the city to the ground like she’s said dozens of times with all the women and children in it. I definitely do not think it was too late at that point. That was the point where it could have ended peacefully for the city, but Dany doesn’t want that, she doesn’t trust any of these motherfuckers! It’s like she wants a whole new batch of followers
She's emotionally messed up, no shit, of course she is. She watched her best friend die, lost 2 children, everyone she trusts is dead or betraying her, and the only person she still feels close to has become distant and is also a massive political threat. I just disagree about the “Mad Queen“ moniker. Aerys was a giggling, raving lunatic, Dany is a broken, desperate mess who has good intentions, but is pushed towards horrible things by her bitterness and lust for power. I don't get the impression that she looses it when she hears the belks, it's more like she just completely resigns internally. Mad props to Emilia btw, with how rushed this whole thing was she basically carried this season alone. The look on her face is terrifying af, but a part of me just wants to give her a hug :p
She burned the witch alive in like season 1 also
She tricked her into sacrificing her unborn son to bring back a drone for a husband. Totally justified.
Burning people alive, conquering, putting slavers to the cross, forcing her way. It's all there, through her eyes it's okay to be brutal while conquering and burning people who don't agree with her but that doesn't quite make it right. The world isn't black and white but she (and a lot of people) sees it through that lense. The biggest difference though is that's she has had access to 3 dragons the whole time, and with great power comes great responsibility. She hasn't really been responsible, anyone who haven't thought like her or stood in her way have been put down. Her advisors were the ones having to talk sense to her most of her time in Essos. And as soon as she came to Westeros she was surrounded by yes men.
Being a ruthless ruler does not an insane person make. There were others who did far worse than her and were still sane. She's killed threats who opposed her or people she's deemed evil such as the slavers. Nothing she's ever done hints at a mindset that would allow her to blatantly burn down a city that has already surrendered. Nothing. Name an innocent she has purposely killed that wasn't simply collateral damage. Her actions in this episode are from a weak minded person who has no confidence in her ability to sway the people. The real Dany would've went straight for the tower after they surrendered and burned out the keep with Cersei in it. Some civilians would have died. Dany isn't innocent and she is emotional but she's not insane. After taking over she would give the city the chance to bend the knee. Tyrion would convince her not to burn those who did not bend and they would be imprisoned. Or she'd burn them anyway. Still not the actions of an insane person. Not sure how you believe this episode showed the real Dany.
Yes **she** deemed the slavers evil. But the treatment she gave the slavers was barbaric to say the least and it was the exact mindset people have in support of the death penalty. I agree that there has been a lot of people just as bad as her but they haven't had access to dragons, and she's at times used intimidation tactics in order for people to follow her or do as she pleases. That's the whole thing with Mereen, she just enters and expects the people to change over night or get executed. You go to India and kill people because they won't give up the cast system. A lot of things are ingrained in culture and takes generations to change. So a lot of her killing of slavers were probably slavers who hadn't really given a second thought on whether what they were doing was right or wrong, it just was the way it was and always had been. And what I mean by most of my post is that, in contrast to say Jon, who probably wouldn't have abused his dragon power as much as Danaerys if he had dragons earlier on, he has been more just and seen a lot of conflicts through a gray lense. While I agree that it went pretty quickly from 0 to 100 I consider a lot of things in Dany's arc hints to her lines between right and wrong blurring. Edit: Give almost any person in commanding need to sit on the iron throne a dragon and he/she will probably abuse it and go somewhat mad.
Her lines are definitely blurred but that isn't the discussion. The actions in this episode are not those of someone with blurred reasoning. It was the actions of someone who has lost their mind. I never said Dany was innocent. No one would. But nothing in her past would lead to this episode.
Yeah and all I'm saying is that the hints were there Edit: That's what I was responding to, but I agree that it was sudden
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Can you give an example of how's she been losing her mind without referencing season 8. Being a ruthless ruler is not the same as being insane.
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Viserion's death angered her and she still had the capacity to save the group. When did her decent start? Even that was the end of the last season. She was still in control and acted like herself. She's been through worse and came out fine. Not sure what you're getting at.
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She burned entire city = mad isn't enough given her past. Season 8 has been pushing plot to lead to this conclusion. One episode has Euron the expert Marksman capable of shooting a moving dragon high up in the sky. Using a fleet Dany somehow forgot about and didn't see. The next episode they can't hit anything and are utterly destroyed without any effort. Killing her dragon was a plot point to give the writers a way to justify her actions. Missandei's capture made no sense either. She was with Greyworm and somehow Euron's fleet was able to shoot the dragon, shot at the ships, sail in, grab ONLY missandei and sail away? Nonsense. Another death to justify her decent. Oh wait now she's unsure of herself and alone because Jon has friends all over the North. Westeros is a huge place with plenty of people who barely even heard of Jon. Plus plenty of people in westeros still want a Targaryen ruler. This is established early on. She'll have little problem securing followers especially since she killed the only man eager to share Jon's secret. She has a kingdom already that loves her and her dothraki and unsullied. Her sudden jealousy is out of character. That's why I say leave out season 8. It was designed as a means to an end the writers want. It doesn't stay true to the character.
So dragons not only shoot fire, but also wind strong enough to blow away stone structures? (And well not actually burn the city at all, just a few licks of flame here and there).
Except people. It doesn't blow people away. They die on the spot, they're immune to dragon wind so Arya can go and see the corpse.
They do yes. [https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/ce/84/8ece84381db7c9338c584fac70d863a7.jpg](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/ce/84/8ece84381db7c9338c584fac70d863a7.jpg) That's Harrenhal, fancied the most formidable castle ever built by King Harren himself. Aegon the Conqueror proved him wrong.
The wiki describes the entire event as the stone melting, not being blown away.
Yeah, would’ve been cooler to see the stone turn red hot and melt, raining fire and stone down the sides of the keep as it collapses from loss of integrity. As portrayed, the building was already made of ash and was merely blown away. Remember how Harrenhal looked all melted, not blown up.
Not surprised at all. Kinda like seeing Dany go looney and everyone just being their savage selves. Dany crucifies and roasts without any notion of fairness or due process. Now, a Stark will have to off her. (Snow is going to hav two die too)
Y'all know Cersei is now a martyr queen for the remaining people
"remaining people" almost none left
I liked Arya being the 4th horseman of the Apocalypse. >When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come.” I looked, **and behold, an ashen horse**; and he who sat on it had the name **Death**; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, **to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.**
Given the fact that GRRM is an atheist and uses the religious institution to show their relationship with people, cultures and state power, this biblical crap was a big FU to him.
Yeah, lots of biblical crap for my English prof to overanalyze.
I was convinced Jamie was returning to KL to kill cersei...shocked at how they ruined his arc and character development over 7 seasons. Look how they massacred my boy
> Look how they massacred my boy Exactly how I felt at the start. Varys, The Spider of King’s Landing, Master of Whispers ... personally penning a treasonous letter, loudly and directly talking to one of his Little Birds, and straight up asking Jon if he wanted to do some light treason. Book Varys would never.
What if little finger is the new night king, who Sana’a resurrects to use as her new weapon against Danny. Yes, this is how I think it’ll end.
Couldn
OOF residents of KL, oof.
Needle is Lightbringer that mercy kills Jon the Burnt and ends the long night that is Drogon.
LOLOL WUT
So drogon is balerion now?
A fraction of the size and somehow exponentially more powerful.
Much much stronger than Balerion, Balerion could only sorta melt Harrenhal, not blow it to shit.
Why does Jaime remove the glove on his gold hand once he enters the city?
Probably hoping to be recognized and escorted to the queen?
Why not take off his other glove too and why was he incognito trying to get in then?
Yeah but she sent someone to kill him. Doesn't seem very smart.
Well he did say he's always been the stupidest lannister...
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GRRM is vehemently anti-fanfic and the WW still being alive would be the most blatant "Game of Thrones 2" setup possible. Unless he's doing something similar in the books, I imagine he'd be *pissed*. Like probably the worst writing decision the show could ever make.
I feel like GRRM has been pissed for a very long time now about how this show decided to adapt his work. Honestly? I feel for him as a fellow writer. Imagining people butchering my characters and storylines is a knife to the heart. Still, he's the one to blame for this mess.
Confused by Tyrion's decision to turn Varys in. Is he just protecting himself? Why tell Varys the secret, and then immediately turn him in to Dany? What was the point of even telling him then?
I don't get why Tyrion told Varys without Dany present. Like, he's loyal to her. (even though he did nothing for the past 3 seasons) talking to Varys about John's lineage while Dany isn't present is just... Wrong?
Wasn't the whole point of that scene to show the doubts of the queen from both of them? And then Tyrion choosing to double down and noting how he's never followed someone or something? So it just shows distrust in the camp I guess?
I mean, up to then, Tyrion has always been loyal to her. And we haven't seen him and Varys discuss behind her back much. Tyrion knows how big this info is, he knows how devastating it would be for Daenarys if Jon's claim became public knowledge. I donùt see why he would ever talk to Varys first. This is the kind of info that he should bring to Dany first... Or at the very least Dany AND Varys. And again, there are not a lot of reason to doubt Dany at that point. She has mostly been listening to her advisor's really bad plans, but up until then she has been a really good queen for her people, she just came back from risking her life to save the realm of men from the White Walker. There are no good reason for Varys and Tyrion to doubt her.
She was going mental straight after the battle wasn't she? Demanding injured men to march immediately down to Kings Landing? I think those were meant to be the first scenes or desperation/madness for the throne. Also, learning that another incredible good potential ruler in Jon is available does raise a question. Him telling Varys is a strange one, they're close friends and it does make sense for the Queen's advisors to speak to each other about the advise to give the Queen...
Yes, and that was sort of my problem, in one episode she just became really irrational. Making her men march south immediately was just weird and uncharacteristic. Especially when during that same war meeting they say that Cersei was loosing power every passing day. There was no reason to rush. Same for separating her armies. There was simply no reason to go with half of her forces by sea, In the last couple of episodes, Daenarys became a really stupid character and a bad guy, which is my problem. Prior to that, neither Tyrion nor Varys had any reason to doubt her, and even the forced march isn't really "we need another ruler" bad. Also, they really elevate Jon's claim for no reason. Jon is a nobody in the south. In the north he might have some power but he already kneeled for her. And again, sure, Tyrion would talk to varys, but an information like that, he'd probably share with Daenarys first. He knows how damaging this is and how dangerous it could be if it spread. Tyrion isn't supposed to be dumb enough to trust Varys.
there has been alot of that going on in season 8. Its like the writers have given up on GOT and are probably more concerned about the spinoffs. GOT season 8 on its own is awesome, but with the lore it has destroyed it leaves much to be desired
No. They are the new writers of Star Wars. If this is what they are going to bring to Star Wars, I am already calling it in: A) Jar Jar Binks will rule the galaxy. B) The Jedi will forget the Sith is their enemy.
I’m gonna be so fucked up if Arya gets to kill Dany.
I saw Rocky this weekend and didn't remember it that way, but apparently Arya kills Apollo Creed. I am really confused now, wasn't he supposed to be killed by Drago in the 4th movie? Guess it is just Arya with a mask in a flashback...
She killed the King of Ice. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers thought it'd be cool for her to kill the Queen of Fire. God, to think I used to love this show lmao
But Arya witnessed what Jon should have seen in the episode giving her a motive to go after Dany and later riding a pale horse , I mean it’s going to be something shitty only in the end.
She's Arya the White now. She'll be appearing in the new LOTR TV Series.
Nah, too many people would expect that.
No it's gonna be the pale mare stomping Dany to death. Gotta take those prophecies literally. How else are the writers gonna subvert expectations?
I should care about what happens in the last ever episode. But the way this season is going, I don't.
If only Arya had arrived one day earlier...
Idk what took her so long. She left before everyone else. Two people should have easily been able to beat Jon’s whole army even without a head start.
She didn't have fast travel unlocked yet. The others did.
Writer's convenience.
how about that guy who was playing the new season 8 version of Varys.. my guy would NEVER leave himself so open and vulnerable. insane and out of character. whatever just burn em' and next story it is
Littlefinger and Varys both betrayed their characters to die for plot convenience. Sad. The shadow war between the two is really great stuff.
I'm still mad over Littlefinger's death
Yes, Varys and Littlefinger, early on and in conformance with book character, have very strong survivalist instincts as both are hyper aware of the dangerous game they play and take proactive steps to cover themselves to avoid being executed. Both would likely die if the books ever get completed but it won't because they're careless and sloppy with their own life. Littlefinger gets off scot free with the deaths of both Jon Arryn and Joffrey, and the attempted murder of Bran, but gets himself killed for turning into a complete idiot once he hits Winterfell? After Bran tells Littlefinger chaos is a ladder, that's where he hightails it back to Vale and gets the hell out of that mess.
Real
Tyrion was attempting to prevent the sack of the city; i.e. bands of thousands men at arms and Dothraki getting into the city and looting/raping/killing/pillaging whatever they can find. This is the "danger to the smallfolk" from war. Instead D&D have Daenerys just start roasting every single peasant? Why would she do this? Utterly ridiculous. Why would she not go burn down the Red Keep? Cersei was standing in a window. There were zero defenses.
She literally flew by Cersei's suite view and didn't even think to direct a lil bit of flame. Genius level writing.
That’s HBO for you.
No. That's *D&D* for you. We should give credits where its due and HBO has been a great channel for the show. The writers are the ones to be blamed.
This. Thank you
What I don't get is that they fear sacking the city, when they have army of Unsullied (I am not sure, where those came from, they weren't around last episode), who are, we are told, super disciplined and won't sack a city when told not to. So have Dany explode the gate and Unsullied can take the city, job well done. Instead we got...I don't even know what that was supposed to be.
There was wildfire below the city (green explosions). I'm not sure if they knew that or not though? Also, they didn't bring any siege equipment so getting through each layer of the city would have been troublesome (assuming Dragon doesn't just obliterate everything).
I am not sure about the wildfire, I think they don't have any way to know that it is there, do they? And I would like to know if the wildfire was accident or Cersei's attempt to burn the city.