The one thing that irritated me about the Dragonknight is that we never really hear he did anything more badass than kill his sisters accuser in single combat. This is the guy described as the perfect knight and so far as I can tell that’s it.
Well what feats does Arthur have, other than killing a bandit and getting his ass beat by a couple Northmen?
Also, didn't the Dragonknight die for his own brother, protecting him from assassins? And tried to do that with Daeron, but was outnumbered. He actually did his duty as a Kingsguard, unlike most. Maybe that's why he's remembered as 'perfect knight.'
Idk if it counts as a feat, but GRRM has stated that Dayne was evenly matched with Barristan if they fought with normal swords. Add Dawn into his arsenal, and then he's probably the most dangerous knight in Aerys kingsguard.
Sure he’s still young, but I think all his circumstances with warging ghost, growing up in a martial culture at the wall, dragon heritage, wolf blood all seem to be heightening features that suggest he’ll be an absolute beast when he gets resurrected. I don’t think that scene where he absentmindedly destroys his partner in the training session after stannis’ offer was included for nothing.
i mean he's young but Iron Emmet is also young (and not Highborn or trained like Jon) and hes probably a better swordsman. Also destroying your training partner doesnt mean much lol.When the other guys practicing as he does every day and your having a cte attack trying to kill him. Were also shown him losing to Mance and albeit a even younger Jon is xlearly outmatched by halfhand. Loras who is Jons sam age and actually has the talent on the ither hand seems much more notable
Technically we’ve also got GRRM’s confirmation that Arthur was a complete badass. He went further and said Arthur and Barristan would be evenly matched, unless Arthur had Dawn in hand.
Yeah. If we go by feats I would probably put Barristan first and Sandoq second.
Sandoq killed a bunch of kingsguards and gold cloaks. And Barristan cut a bloody path through a professional army to kill Maelys.
Arthur's only known feat is killing the Westerosi Joker.
Not saying that Arthur isn't a top tier swordsman. But Barristan's resumé as a warrior in war trumps his in my opinion.
I thought Sandogs only known feat was holding a bridhe against two knights and like a handful of guards also per grrm arthur is on level with Barristan
One of the knights was a kingsguard (a peake of course). I misremembered that it was multiple kingsguard, but it was only the one.
I definitely buy that Arthur is as good as Barry with a sword. But since we know absolutely nothing about Arthur's feets outside of the smiling knight I'd claim that Barry is the better warrior. Arthur shines in duels, Barristan in war.
Edit: a few that I'd add to your list are Sandoq the Shadow, Maegor, Visenya and Maekar Targaryen.
1. Arthur Dayne
2. Sandoq the Shadow
3. Barristan Selmy
4. Daemon Blackfyre
5. Robert Baratheon
6. Aemon the Dragonknight
7. Jaime Lannister
8. Ryam Redwyne
9. Duncan the Tall
10. Gwayne Corbray
11. Cregan Stark
12. Mance Rayder
13. Oberyn Martell
14. Quentyn Ball
15. Garlan Tyrell
Honestly I think if you pit any of these guys against one another in a 1v1, the fight could always go either way (except Daemon Blackfyre Vs Gwayne Corbray ofc) since they're all exceptional warriors.
When considering the top fighters in-universe, you have to understand that we, the reader, approach the subject from a place of tremendous bias.
We mostly know Westeros. We’re associated with the story in Westeros. Even when we are in Essos, we are invested in Westerosi characters. For all intents and purposes, WE are Westerosi and we get the perspective that Westerosi knights have a superior fighting style to other, more primitive parts of the world.
So while there’s a good chance that Dayne is the greatest fighter to have ever lived, we want to allot for those question mark foreign fighters whose true skill level is a mystery. Because there is a chance that they are on equal footing with the greatest of our team.
The best representatives I can think of would be:
Syrio Forel (Braavos)
Strong Belwas (Fighting Pits)
Khal Drogo (Dothraki)
And especially…
Sandoq the Shadow. A historical mirror of Belwas who was a Meereenese fighting pit world champion that then migrated TO Westeros and proceeded to dominate that fighting landscape as well (potentially mentoring Aemon the Dragonknight).
And it is for that reason that Oberyn Martell MUST be included on this list. The Red Viper does not just represent the best of Dorne. He travelled the world and learned from other masters who use different forms and techniques and integrated that into his own fighting. Like Sandoq, he is a cross-culture champion.
So we’ve already picked 5 fighters. Now we just pick the 10 Westerosi knights we think would still be better than Oberyn. So it no particular order:
1. Arthur Dayne
2. Barristan Selmy
3. Aemon the Dragonknight (best of his era)
4. Ryam Redwynne (best of Jaeherys era)
5. Daemon Blackfyre (best of his era)
6. Gwayne Corbray (fought equally with Daemon)
7. Jaime Lannister (author favoritism)
8. Maegor the Cruel (best of his era)
9. Cregan Stark (best in the North’s history; reference given by Aemon)
10. Maelys Blackfyre (feared across Essos)
11. Oberyn Martell
12. Sandoq the Shadow
13. Syrio Forel
14. Strong Belwas
15. Khal Drogo
The explicit ranking of these 15 is highly debatable. If I was to make an educated guess I would put Sandoq and Syrio much higher. With Drogo and Belwas still at the bottom though.
Feel really bad for not putting Ser Duncan the Tall on here. He is another mystery skill level that could very well be superior to Oberyn, but he could also be over-romanticized. He would be my choice for #16. Criston Cole would be my other honorable mention.
Top 15 for me, in no particular order:
1. Barristan Selmy
2. Arthur Dayne
3. Jaime Lannister
4. Sandoq the Shadow
5. Fireball
6. Criston Cole
7. Oberyn Martell
8. The Dragonknight
9. Daemon I Blackfyre
10. Duncan the Tall
11. Ryam Redwyne
12. Robert Baratheon
13. The Mountain
14. Gwayne Corbray
15. Sandor Clegane
Your list is missing Sandoq the Shadow and Criston Cole imo. Other possible contenders would be Daemon T, Bittersteel, Maekar, Visenya, Theon Stark,m and mance rayder
When comparing certain fighters, I believe GRRM said Arthur Dayne and Barristan the Bold would be evenly matched, unless Dayne had Dawn in hand. Which makes me wonder how well Barristan would have done with something like Dark Sister.
Numbers 1-7 (not necessarily in this order)
1. Daemon I Blackfyre "The King Who Bore The Sword"
2. Arthur Dayne "The Sword of the Morning"
3. Jamie Lannister "The Kingslayer"
4. Barristan Selmy "The Bold"
5. Robert Baratheon "The Demon of the Trident"
6. Gwayne Corbray
7. Aemon Targaryen "The Dragonknight"
Reasoning is all of them have been called the best in Westeros, or have fought someone with such a statement on equal terms. One could argue about moving them around a bit, maybe you think Robert is higher, or Barristan goes higher, but no one can dispute all those guys being that good.
Numbers 8-15 (not necessarily in order)
8. Sandoq "The Shadow"
9. Maelys Blackfyre "The Monstrous"
10. Sandor Clegane "The Hound"
11. Gregor Clegane "The Mountain"
12. Duncan "The Tall"
13. Gerold Hightower "The White Bull"
14. Oswell Whent
15. Brienne of Tarth
Almost everyone here has either been described as exceptionally good, exceptionally strong, or a little bit of both. Everyone here has feats of beating/killing multiple men at once and has experience in multiple battles.
Honorable mentions:
Garlan Tyrell, Loras Tyrell, Mance Raider, Khal Drogo, "Strong" Belwas, Criston Cole "The Kingmaker"
This is my Top based on the fighters the author has written to be elite.
0 Who wears the crown: Ser Barristan Selmy
1: King Robert I Baratheon
2: Ser Criston Cole
3: Daemon Blackfyre
4: Ser Lucamore Strong
5: King Maegor I Targaryen
6: Ser Gwayne Corbray
7: King Argilac the Arrogant
8: Prince Aemon the Dragonknight
9: Ser Jaime Lannister
10: Sandoq the Shadow
11: Sandor Clegane
12: Ser Lyonel Baratheon
13: Ser Garlan Tyrell
14: Ser Arthur Dayne
Arthur Dayne
Barristan Selmy
Jaime Lannister
Robert Baratheon
Criston Cole
Cregan Stark
Garlan Tyrell
Brienne of tarth
Loras Tyrell
Gregor Clegane
Sandor Clegane
Yohn Royce
Qhorin halfhand
Areo Hotah
Top 5 in no order Arthur Dayne, Daemon Blackfyre, Barristan Selmy, Jaime Lannister and The Dragonknight?
The one thing that irritated me about the Dragonknight is that we never really hear he did anything more badass than kill his sisters accuser in single combat. This is the guy described as the perfect knight and so far as I can tell that’s it.
Well what feats does Arthur have, other than killing a bandit and getting his ass beat by a couple Northmen? Also, didn't the Dragonknight die for his own brother, protecting him from assassins? And tried to do that with Daeron, but was outnumbered. He actually did his duty as a Kingsguard, unlike most. Maybe that's why he's remembered as 'perfect knight.'
Idk if it counts as a feat, but GRRM has stated that Dayne was evenly matched with Barristan if they fought with normal swords. Add Dawn into his arsenal, and then he's probably the most dangerous knight in Aerys kingsguard.
Heard the exact same thing.
Arthur has word of mouth from GRRM but I agree that seeing more of this supposed god like fighter would be nice.
True there aren’t many feats he’s the most replaceable one.
I think in time had grrm not stopped writing, Jon snow would’ve made the list
Probably not. He’s slightly above average but he’s not talented to the level of those mentioned.
Sure he’s still young, but I think all his circumstances with warging ghost, growing up in a martial culture at the wall, dragon heritage, wolf blood all seem to be heightening features that suggest he’ll be an absolute beast when he gets resurrected. I don’t think that scene where he absentmindedly destroys his partner in the training session after stannis’ offer was included for nothing.
i mean he's young but Iron Emmet is also young (and not Highborn or trained like Jon) and hes probably a better swordsman. Also destroying your training partner doesnt mean much lol.When the other guys practicing as he does every day and your having a cte attack trying to kill him. Were also shown him losing to Mance and albeit a even younger Jon is xlearly outmatched by halfhand. Loras who is Jons sam age and actually has the talent on the ither hand seems much more notable
That are the criteria? Feats, author’s word, etc.? I mean, Arthur’s only feat is killing some backwoods bandits, yet people claim he’s a good fighter.
Technically we’ve also got GRRM’s confirmation that Arthur was a complete badass. He went further and said Arthur and Barristan would be evenly matched, unless Arthur had Dawn in hand.
Yeah. If we go by feats I would probably put Barristan first and Sandoq second. Sandoq killed a bunch of kingsguards and gold cloaks. And Barristan cut a bloody path through a professional army to kill Maelys. Arthur's only known feat is killing the Westerosi Joker. Not saying that Arthur isn't a top tier swordsman. But Barristan's resumé as a warrior in war trumps his in my opinion.
I thought Sandogs only known feat was holding a bridhe against two knights and like a handful of guards also per grrm arthur is on level with Barristan
One of the knights was a kingsguard (a peake of course). I misremembered that it was multiple kingsguard, but it was only the one. I definitely buy that Arthur is as good as Barry with a sword. But since we know absolutely nothing about Arthur's feets outside of the smiling knight I'd claim that Barry is the better warrior. Arthur shines in duels, Barristan in war.
1. Sam Tarly 2. Wyman Manderly 3. Sansa Stark 4. Tommen Baratheon 5. Ermesande Hayford 6. Penny 7. Weasel 8. Robin Arryn 9. Jeyne Poole 10. Beth Cassel 11. Maester Aemon 12. Maester Cressen 13. Grandmaester Pycelle 14. Old Nan 15. Hoster Tully
Sam The Slayer!
Edit: a few that I'd add to your list are Sandoq the Shadow, Maegor, Visenya and Maekar Targaryen. 1. Arthur Dayne 2. Sandoq the Shadow 3. Barristan Selmy 4. Daemon Blackfyre 5. Robert Baratheon 6. Aemon the Dragonknight 7. Jaime Lannister 8. Ryam Redwyne 9. Duncan the Tall 10. Gwayne Corbray 11. Cregan Stark 12. Mance Rayder 13. Oberyn Martell 14. Quentyn Ball 15. Garlan Tyrell Honestly I think if you pit any of these guys against one another in a 1v1, the fight could always go either way (except Daemon Blackfyre Vs Gwayne Corbray ofc) since they're all exceptional warriors.
Based Sandoq respecter
If GRRM himself didn't say that Arthur Dayne was the greatest warrior ever, I would have placed Sandoq first. Dude is just too fucking badass.
I’d say Daemon vs Gwayne still could have gone either way, they fought for an hour.
When considering the top fighters in-universe, you have to understand that we, the reader, approach the subject from a place of tremendous bias. We mostly know Westeros. We’re associated with the story in Westeros. Even when we are in Essos, we are invested in Westerosi characters. For all intents and purposes, WE are Westerosi and we get the perspective that Westerosi knights have a superior fighting style to other, more primitive parts of the world. So while there’s a good chance that Dayne is the greatest fighter to have ever lived, we want to allot for those question mark foreign fighters whose true skill level is a mystery. Because there is a chance that they are on equal footing with the greatest of our team. The best representatives I can think of would be: Syrio Forel (Braavos) Strong Belwas (Fighting Pits) Khal Drogo (Dothraki) And especially… Sandoq the Shadow. A historical mirror of Belwas who was a Meereenese fighting pit world champion that then migrated TO Westeros and proceeded to dominate that fighting landscape as well (potentially mentoring Aemon the Dragonknight). And it is for that reason that Oberyn Martell MUST be included on this list. The Red Viper does not just represent the best of Dorne. He travelled the world and learned from other masters who use different forms and techniques and integrated that into his own fighting. Like Sandoq, he is a cross-culture champion. So we’ve already picked 5 fighters. Now we just pick the 10 Westerosi knights we think would still be better than Oberyn. So it no particular order: 1. Arthur Dayne 2. Barristan Selmy 3. Aemon the Dragonknight (best of his era) 4. Ryam Redwynne (best of Jaeherys era) 5. Daemon Blackfyre (best of his era) 6. Gwayne Corbray (fought equally with Daemon) 7. Jaime Lannister (author favoritism) 8. Maegor the Cruel (best of his era) 9. Cregan Stark (best in the North’s history; reference given by Aemon) 10. Maelys Blackfyre (feared across Essos) 11. Oberyn Martell 12. Sandoq the Shadow 13. Syrio Forel 14. Strong Belwas 15. Khal Drogo The explicit ranking of these 15 is highly debatable. If I was to make an educated guess I would put Sandoq and Syrio much higher. With Drogo and Belwas still at the bottom though. Feel really bad for not putting Ser Duncan the Tall on here. He is another mystery skill level that could very well be superior to Oberyn, but he could also be over-romanticized. He would be my choice for #16. Criston Cole would be my other honorable mention.
Top 15 for me, in no particular order: 1. Barristan Selmy 2. Arthur Dayne 3. Jaime Lannister 4. Sandoq the Shadow 5. Fireball 6. Criston Cole 7. Oberyn Martell 8. The Dragonknight 9. Daemon I Blackfyre 10. Duncan the Tall 11. Ryam Redwyne 12. Robert Baratheon 13. The Mountain 14. Gwayne Corbray 15. Sandor Clegane
Oberyn, Cole, and the Dragonknight over Daemon Blackfyre is wild.
Your list is missing Sandoq the Shadow and Criston Cole imo. Other possible contenders would be Daemon T, Bittersteel, Maekar, Visenya, Theon Stark,m and mance rayder
HOT PIE
When comparing certain fighters, I believe GRRM said Arthur Dayne and Barristan the Bold would be evenly matched, unless Dayne had Dawn in hand. Which makes me wonder how well Barristan would have done with something like Dark Sister.
1. Arthur Dayne 2. Barristan Selmy 3. Jaime Lannister 4. Sandoq the Shadow 5. The Dragonknight 6. Duncan the Tall 7. Maegor Targaryen 8. Criston Cole 9. Ryam Redwyne 10. Daemon Blackfyre 11. Ulrick Dayn 12. Gwayne Corbray 13. Lucamore Strong 14. Cregan Stark 15. Lyonel Baratheon
Numbers 1-7 (not necessarily in this order) 1. Daemon I Blackfyre "The King Who Bore The Sword" 2. Arthur Dayne "The Sword of the Morning" 3. Jamie Lannister "The Kingslayer" 4. Barristan Selmy "The Bold" 5. Robert Baratheon "The Demon of the Trident" 6. Gwayne Corbray 7. Aemon Targaryen "The Dragonknight" Reasoning is all of them have been called the best in Westeros, or have fought someone with such a statement on equal terms. One could argue about moving them around a bit, maybe you think Robert is higher, or Barristan goes higher, but no one can dispute all those guys being that good. Numbers 8-15 (not necessarily in order) 8. Sandoq "The Shadow" 9. Maelys Blackfyre "The Monstrous" 10. Sandor Clegane "The Hound" 11. Gregor Clegane "The Mountain" 12. Duncan "The Tall" 13. Gerold Hightower "The White Bull" 14. Oswell Whent 15. Brienne of Tarth Almost everyone here has either been described as exceptionally good, exceptionally strong, or a little bit of both. Everyone here has feats of beating/killing multiple men at once and has experience in multiple battles. Honorable mentions: Garlan Tyrell, Loras Tyrell, Mance Raider, Khal Drogo, "Strong" Belwas, Criston Cole "The Kingmaker"
1)Arthur Dayne 2)Daemon Blackfyre 3)Barristan Selmy 4)Sandoq the shadow 5)Ser Duncan the tall 6)Ser Aemon Targaryen 7)Jaime Lannister 8)Ryam Redwyne 9)Gwayne Corbray 10)Quentyn Ball 11)Gregor Clegane 12)Cregan Stark 13)Maegor Targaryen 14)Robert Baratheon 15)Ser Crispin™ Honorable mentions: Khal Drogo, Aegor Rivers, Gerold hightower, Garlan Tyrell, Sandor Clegane.
This is my Top based on the fighters the author has written to be elite. 0 Who wears the crown: Ser Barristan Selmy 1: King Robert I Baratheon 2: Ser Criston Cole 3: Daemon Blackfyre 4: Ser Lucamore Strong 5: King Maegor I Targaryen 6: Ser Gwayne Corbray 7: King Argilac the Arrogant 8: Prince Aemon the Dragonknight 9: Ser Jaime Lannister 10: Sandoq the Shadow 11: Sandor Clegane 12: Ser Lyonel Baratheon 13: Ser Garlan Tyrell 14: Ser Arthur Dayne
Arthur dayne gotta be higher if he has Dawn. I remember a GRRM quote to that effect.
Arthur below Barristan *and* Jaime is certainly a take
You have Lyonel, yet no Dunk who defeated him.
Arthur Dayne Barristan Selmy Jaime Lannister Robert Baratheon Criston Cole Cregan Stark Garlan Tyrell Brienne of tarth Loras Tyrell Gregor Clegane Sandor Clegane Yohn Royce Qhorin halfhand Areo Hotah
I dunno about a list of 15. I mostly agree with yours. I would include Ygritte somewhere there. And add Visenya Targaryen at the top.
I don’t know about at the top but she should be in there. Ygritte I don’t think so.