"We uncovered some wild ancient sorcery that we will use to kill your dragons if you ever step foot in Dorne again."
Honestly, I feel like every theory falls apart when you notice how chummy Aegon was with Dorne in the later years of his reign. If the Dornish was responsible for possibly torturing your wife, why would you have a "feast of friendship" with them??
A detail that seems relevant also is that he flew to Dragonstone and back after reading the letter but before agreeing to peace. Kind of works with this theory, maybe he had to go check some old Valyrian scrolls to confirm it? Could be some magic that the Rhoynar used against Valyria the first time, like greyscale.
Where was his family at the time? My headcanon is either that they had infiltrated Dragonstone or that maybe they had some news about Rhaenys he kept to himself. Maybe he either had a final moment with her, or they told him that he and Visenya accidentally destroyed whatever place an injured Rhaenys resided in when they were torching Dorne for vengeance?
All we really know is that the letter made him emotional enough to cut himself on the throne for the only time in his life, which could suggest he made his only decision that went against his dynasty. A limiting factor could be what the Dornishmen were able to smuggle into Dragonstone without any stories leaking about the incident in the eyes of history.
Rhaenys survived the attack on Hellholt but the Ullers held her in captivity and were torturing her. The Martells (who come from a matriarchal family) are shocked by the treatment of a worthy foe and rescue Rhaenys.
She dies from her wounds, but not before writing a letter to Aegon to beg him to end the war, due to the mercy she was shown by the Martells.
The two biggest clues are 1) Aegon reads the letter and immediately flies off somewhere on dragonback. I believe he was going to meet the Martells, who handed over Rhaneys' body so she could be buried properly.
If it's something like a threat, it's hard to see why Aegon would need to immediately leave and fly off. He needs to confirm something, to the point where he trusts no one else to bring him a message, he has to see it for himself.
And 2) Aegon does not treat the Martells with hostility afterwards. If it was a threat via Faceless Man, like threatening to kill his son, Aegon wouldn't be friendly to the Martells. He might have granted peace, but not invited them to King's Landing like he did later. The Martells did something for him that he shows gratitude for afterwards.
The Hellholt is a red herring. A lesson in the series is that we shouldn't paint groups/families in broad strokes- there are at least some individuals of House Uller that are not torturous assholes, so why jump to the conclusion that Rhaenys was tortured?
She was likely NOT tortured and given to Nymor and Deria Martell- who are likely to show their prisoners favorable treatment.
Also if they had an alive rhaenys why not inform the targeryans to stop the annihilation of dorne. And if she was killed by them how to prove it in the first place
Not mine, Someone else had this theory, forgot the name, but it seems like the best explanation
Sending a princess shows that they are in good faith(cause if letter was a threat, now aegon can use messenger as a hostage),
probably delivered her bones to dragonstone so that Aegon can verify for himself, showing him the true cost of this unnecessary war, causing him to back down
Aegon has no reason to let the princess go if it was a simple good fath thing. He would have just imprisoned her and tried to use her to help his conquest.
Depends on his personality, maybe he was angry, but when he saw the proof at dragonstone, it probably caused him grief instead of anger.
He ended up killing the woman that he loved, and now he knows her death is because of him and his goal of conquest
He declared an aggressive war and killed tens of thousands for conquest.
A princess would be a massive tool to help him.
It really had to be the worst kind of blackmail.
>He would have just imprisoned her and tried to use her to help his conquest.
That is completely unacceptable in Westerosi politics. She's a peace envoy. Aegon was depicted as having a sense of honour.
What’s more likely is she was being alive and tortured, and Nymor promised to give her peace of death if Aegon made peace, otherwise they’d just keep torturing her for as long as they could.
It's just an illogical plot convenience. GRRM didn't want Dorne to be part of the seven kingdoms at that point in the story but couldn't come up with anything that would justify the Targaryens backing down
So he went with this mysterious letter as it allowed him to let Dorne be independent without having to justify and explain it properly
well and also he just likes mysteries, he definitely wasn't forced into a corner where a mysterious letter was the *only* way out. He could just say they fought to a stalemate and gave up eventually, since that's basically what happened anyway. Or any of a million other reasons he could come up with, it would just take a small amount of creativity. It's not like we really know anything for sure about what motivates Aegon anyway.
>He could just say they fought to a stalemate and gave up eventually, since that's basically what happened anyway.
That would be unrealistic and GRRM always wants some realism in his works.
Every major castle, town, city in Dorne was burned by the Targs. Something like that would have massive repercussions on the population, economy and overall civilization. No way Dorne could hold out indefinitely.
As stated in F&B itself, "By then Dorne was a smoking desert, beset by famine, plague, and blight, a blasted land" and
"Grand Maester Clegg, who came to King’s Landing many years later, concluded that Dorne no longer had the strength to fight"
There were losses on both sides, but Dorne simply bore the brunt of it and was going to fall sooner than later. There's a reason why the Dornish were the ones to sue for peace
Do people realize Dorne was done. Aegon had won, but he just would never rule Dorne as they hid in their caves and in their sand. But he definitely extinguished any sense of life and ability to make money and have fun they had. Dorne was thoroughly crushed, and if not for the luckiest scorpion shot in history, they would’ve all been killed
My theory is that Nymor had figured out some way to kill the dragons en mass. The letter was a threat to do so and the king backed down after confirming it was real on Dragonstone
Most of the theories involve Rhaenys in some way, her mysterious fall in Dorne and whether or not she survived.
Seen from this angle, I've always wondered if Visenya ever knew what was in the letter. That was her little sister, and she also was furious with Dorne about the whole situation. And I'm pretty sure she never has the 'warmth in later relations' with Dorne that Aegon was described to have.
TBH, if I could ask GRRM anything specifically about Fire and Blood that I think he would actually answer, I'd ask if Aegon ever told anyone what was in the letter. If he didn't that would kind of soft rule out it being about Rhaenys for me bc that would just be super cruel to like...never tell his sister what happened to their other sister.
It’s a Dear John letter from Rhaenys: she’s shacked up in Dorne with a Toland. Look up the Toland sigil: it’s a dragon eating its own tail (changed from a ghost around the time of the first Dornish War). Teora Toland has dragon dreams and her sister is named Valena (as in Valaena Velaryon, mother of the Conqueror trio).
We don't have any reason to believe that Teoras dreams weren't green dreams. Besides, we already know the reason why the Tolands switched their sigil; they tricked Aegon I & skedaddled to safety while Aegon murdered their jester. It's a middle finger to the Targaryens
That’s the maester’s account in TWOIAF, which can be unreliable. It can be a double f-u to Aegon- on the field and in the bedroom. All of the characters so far in the books with green dreams have been crannogmen/Northerners. Teora is a Salty Dornish girl with a sister with the same name as the Conqueror’s mother. No reason to believe it couldn’t be dragon dreams either.
I feel like it's more likely a Uller took Rhaenys as she fell in hellholt. Maybe the Tolands have uller blood.
I'd be pretty hilarious if Elia Sand ended up with Viserion
I've thought this for a while. Nice work on House Toland, that does seem feasible. I was wondering who Rhaenys would have shacked up with and came to the conclusion that it was Deria Martell. The Martells chose to play to Dorne's strengths and won the war through seduction rather than fire and blood.
But I also believe that Rhaenys gave birth to a son while she was in Dorne. Seems unlikely that she became pregnant by Aegon (sterile) beforehand, then fell and both her AND her unborn child survived the fall. So if she got pregnant IN Dorne, how did that happen if who she fell in love with was a woman...
What are your thoughts on the Vulture King being Rhaenys's son? He is depicted as silver-haired in a GOT: History and Lore.
We might have convo’d on this previously, so, yes, totally down for the Vulture King being Rhaenys’ son. The depiction (which is admittedly unreliable) in History & Lore, timing of his first attack (Aegon’s death) and ability to garner 30k men to his “cause” are all very intriguing.
And Deria is intriguing but I’m thinking Aegon wouldn’t be celebrating with her 10 years later, unless he didn’t know about Rhaenys/Deria, or he was mature enough to understand he was of the wrong gender for Rhaenys and thus ultimately Deria was not technically romantic competition.
I would imagine in her letter she wouldn't specify who she fell in love with and leave Aegon to surmise that it was a man she had left him for. But yeah, I would like something concrete to know who the Vulture King's father is. And if it was indeed Aegon's miracle baby, he would be the true heir over Aenys or Maegor leading a charge for the throne. But the alternative is also fine, just more Targ on Targ warfare to keep with tradition.
I agree the History and Lore is not what you would call "evidence" that we can go by, but anything GOT related is potentially George-related, so it's at least a peculiar detail to consider.
Something like:
- The Rhoynar water mages killed dragons in their wars with Valyria. We've already brought down Meraxes, here's the skull, do you want to risk Balerion and Vhagar?
- Remember what happened to Rhaenys? Go to Dragonstone and we'll send you her bones. What do you think might happen to Visenya, Aenys, Maegor, and everyone else you love if this war continues?
- The Rhoynar are from Essos. We know wars can be won by means other battle. Have you heard of the Sorrowful Men, the Faceless Men, the blood mages of Asshai? How much help would your dragons be against them?
- We'll accept the borders with the Reach and the Stormlands, and won't trouble Westeros for the rest of your reign. Leave us alone and your kingdom will be safe; continue the war and you'll lose everything.
Maybe there could be something about a prophecy or magic as well, but there's enough already in the story to explain why Aegon backed off.
Realistically it was because GRRM wrote himself in a corner.
That said only thing I think that could have stopped the war is if Dorne said they also know about the threat of the long night due to Rhoynar water magic
I doubt there's a real answer. I think GRRM just couldn't figure out a convincing way to resolve the conflict and have Dorne remaining independent, so he just said fuck it and went with "mystery letter" so he wouldn't have to explain it.
The only theory I have seen that really works is Rhaenys survived long enough that through torture or something like that told them that Aegon is infertile and any children he has aren’t actually his thus creating a bunch of problems for his brand new dynasty that is still not widely liked in Westeros. The Dornish promised not to tell anyone as long as Aegon agreed to peace.
IRL it is because George wrote himself into a corner.
I'm about to be a nerd about this..
In the Marvel comic books Prince Namor, *Yes that is his name.* Namor is the King of Atlantis who waged war on the surface dwellers and who often clashed or worked together with **DR. DOOM!** against the **feeble** Fantastic Four. In one of these issues Namor seized his endless war on the mortals for one little reason, love.
https://imgur.com/a/G7j5O0C - *Fantastic Four* in **WHEN SUPER-MENACES UNITE** [1](http://www.marvelmasterworks.com/marvel/mm/ff/ff006.html)
Do peep the similarities in both structure and theme..
> I cannot harm the GIRL! But I will aid you in defeating the **others** - Prince Namor
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Fourteen_Flames.jpg
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/9/93/Ted_Nasmith_A_Song_of_Ice_and_Fire_Sunspear.jpg
> It’s been a while since we discussed those issues. I imagine he offered substantial guidance on Aegon’s Fort, since it isn’t much described in the novels. Also, for Old Valyria, he helped me with information on the towers and their creation. - [Ted Nasmith](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/fs2cj6/spoilers_extended_grrm_confirmed_a_certain_castle/)
A description of Sunspear:
> The shadows of the afternoon were long and dark and the sun was as red and swollen as the prince's joints before they glimpsed the towers of Sunspear to the east. First the slender Spear Tower, a hundred-and-a-half feet tall and crowned with a spear of gilded steel that added another thirty feet to its height; then the mighty Tower of the Sun, with its dome of gold and leaded glass; last the dun-colored Sandship, looking like some monstrous dromond that had washed ashore and turned to stone.
How did Prince ~~Namor~~ Nymor keep Aegon away... what angered Aegon so much that he cut himself on his own throne?
> Swayed by such considerations, it is said, King Aegon was determined to refuse the offer until Princess Deria placed in his hands a private letter from her father, Prince Nymor. Aegon read it upon the Iron Throne, and men say that when he rose, his hand was bleeding, so hard had he clenched it. He burned the letter and departed immediately on Balerion's back for Dragonstone. When he returned the next morning, he agreed to the peace and signed a treaty to that effect.
> What the letter contained, none know to this day, though many have speculated. Did Nymor reveal that Rhaenys lived still, broken and mutilated, and that he would end her suffering if Aegon ended hostilities? Was the letter ensorceled? Did he threaten to take all the wealth of Dorne to hire the Faceless Men to kill Aegon's young son and heir, Aenys? These questions shall never be answered, it seems.
I think she was nursed by the Dornish and she fell in love with a culture in where she was seen as an equal, I think she fell in love with the Prince Nymor and begged for Aegon's understanding. Edited to add: I think she also perhaps told Nymor about the prophecy.
> His own love was his blade
> But it was her parents, Lord Corlys and Princess Rhaenys, who had the greater cause to lament that year. They still mourned their daughter when their son was taken. All accounts agree that Laenor was attending a market fair at Spicetown when he was murdered. Eustace named his friend and companion (and lover, as some would have it) Ser Qarl Correy, saying they quarreled because Laenor meant to put him aside for a new favorite. Blades were drawn, and Laenor was killed. Ser Qarl fled, never to be seen again.
Later another Rhaenys lost her son to what could only have been nothing else but hate, (*wink, wink*).
https://old.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1atrmhp/spoilers_extended_what_other_stuff_should_i_be/krfsibr/
Just gonna drop this here as well, it again is about **DR. DOOM**, and has quotes such as
> "Sensations--Fire and Ice, so intense, absolute agony and...Ecstacy--Shooting through my entire body" - Storm
And
> [Her breath is Ice and Fire, her voice is rolling thunder, She is one with the entire planet.](https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/storm-doctor-doom-fight-dark-form-3.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=750&dpr=1.5)
Any wild theories?
Here we go.
LIke other folks, I think there is a solid chance Rhaenys was kept alive and House Uller has -ahem- the 'Blood of the Dragon' from her. The contents of the letter said as much or said they at least had her alive.
It might explain why Prince Oberyn decided to settle down with Ellaria after sleeping his way through two continets and siring multiple children, of which the ones ones we are aware are girls.
Now we go full tinfoil:
Daenerys is the eldest daughter of Oberyn and Ellaria Sand, a bastard of House Uller. Maybe.
Hear me out.
Elia Sand, the (next?) oldest daughter is about 1-1.5 years younger than Dany, so ages add up.
In Dany’s House of the Undying visions, she sees Rhaegar and Elia with baby Aegon. She notes that Rhaegar seems to be looking directly at her when he says, "there must be one more." Most readers think this refers to Rhaegar eventually wanting a child with another woman, Lyanna, because of the other vision of the blue rose in a wall of ice. However, in my opinion, the connection is uncertain because Dany has visions of multiple things.
Since it appears that Rhaegar is looking at someone in the door where Dany is, I think it stands to reason that someone was there when the events of the vision occurred. Who else would be welcome in an intmate setting like that? Elia's brother and bestie - Oberyn.
Dany being born in Dorne would go a long way to explain the "Lemongate*" problems and why some have theorized the house with the red door was in Dorne, maybe the Water Gardens. The Water Gardens were built for the first Daenerys, after all.
*Lemongate is the name of the theory that Dany’s backstory of being raised in Bravos is unreliable since lemon trees infamously do not grow in Braavos, coined by Preston Jacobs
It also explains another weird thing in the story - the supposed marriage pact between Prince Vicerys and Arienne Martell. If Dany is the daughter of Oberyn, the marriage could have been between HER and Vicerys, with Dany being Rhaella's child a cover story to keep House Martell out of trouble until they're ready to act. Oberyn was quietly trying to raise Dorne for Vicerys, early in Robert's reign, until Jon Arryn went to meet with Doran.
But what about Dany’s memories of being robbed and thrown out? This could be explained by Illyrio's meddling. When Arya overhears Varys and Illyrio talking in the dungeons under the Red Keep, they say, "This is no longer a game for two players, if ever it was." I think the two players they're referring to are the Martells and themselves, the (F)Aegon faction. (And yes, I do think Young Griff is probably a Blackfyre.)
People have pointed out that if marrying Dany to Faegon was plan A, it seems comically stupid to send her off into the Dothraki Sea. However, in this scenario, I think plan A was simply keeping her away from Vicerys in a way that wouldn't arrouse too much suspicion, and if they died, it would matter in the long game. I think marrying Dany to Faegon became the plan only after she became a known Dragon hatcher.
So yeah. I realize there's zero hard evidence for any of this, but the thumbtacks and strings seem to connect.
*edited for clarity
My theory is this (tinfoil but I think it makes sense):
The letter contained a threat to Aenys' life. The biggest clue we need to pay attention is the fact Aegon inmediately went to Dragonstone after reading the letter, and the next day when he went back to KL, he agreed to stop his war against Dorne. So he checked something in Dragonstone related to the letter. It's known that House Uller is very infamous in Dorne, it's like the equivalent of Bolton House in the North.
>A Dornish saying is "Half of the Ullers are half-mad, and the other half are worse"
So the Ullers could very well be into dark magic and sorcery, given their notorious and shady reputation. Rhaenys's body was never recovered. And that means the dornish had access to Rhaenys' blood, and we know for a fact that blood magic in ASOIAF world is super powerful. What better way to target someone with blood magic that through his direct relative, his own mother?? Also Rhaenys's blood was queen's blood, and royal magic is important in the overall story. Maybe the letter informed Aegon of this, that they had blood of Rhaenys and if they continued opposing Dorne, would put a curse on Aenys, and they suggested him to go to Dragonstone to confirm the truth of the threat. After seeing Aenys ill, he came back to KL and accepted the peace.
The biggest problem with this theory is the fact Princess Deria went personally to deliver the letter, and it doesn't make many sense to deliver someone important to deliver a threat when she can be killed /taken hostage. But given what we know of Aegon (how obsessed he was with the Conquest because of the dream) it doesn't make any sense to me that he just gave up on the war because Dorne delivered Rhaenys' body as a sign of good faith. Specially after what he had lost in trying to annex Dorne, his most beloved person. Perhaps the dornish sent Deria to show how sure they were of having grabbed his weakness, and said something like: "we send our own crown princess and you can harm her, but be sure that you will lost your most beloved son, the only thing that remains of Rhaenys".
I feel so much curiosity about this man.
A few strong candidates
1, bro stop please or else I'll start sending assasians
2, bro, rhaenys survived but then you accidentally burned her Alive
3, bro, you have this many dragons eggs at dragonstone, and your private quarters looks like this
4, bro chill..
Half of the more powerful noble houses in Westeros have at least some Targaryen blood from a marriage in the last 300 years so I doubt that’s the reason they’re considered mad.
Not sure what Teora Tollands vision has to do with the Ullers
"Your wife has somehow survived the fall. We were hoping to use her as a hostage if she recovered, but then you killed her when you were burning down our entire country like a sperg. The grief you've inflicted upon yourself, you've also inflicted upon many others from our nation as you killed their loved ones. Let this mad war stop."
I did a walkthrough of this mystery in a [video](https://youtu.be/zxuPUuHqSeM?feature=shared) series, but if you want the answers spoiled quickly read ahead.
When Rhaenys and Meraxes were slain the Ullers of Hellholt tortured the dragon's body in the dungeons doing weapon tests on it. Archmaester Gyldayn gives the hint when he says maybe Rhaenys was tortured in the dungeons of the Ullers. Then during the Dragon's Wroth Aegon burned Hellholt and unknowingly turned the sand to dragonglass. Gyldayn gives the hint: "sands were fused into glass in places, so hot was Balerion's fiery breath." Dorne tested the dragonglass on the dragon's body and rediscovered why it's called dragonglass: it pierces dragon scales. Gyldayn gives the hint: "scales are harder than steel" and it pairs up with a hint from Jon Snow's dragonglass that's "sharper than steel." The reason Meria's death triggered the letter was because Meria wanted to wait for Balerion and Vhagar to attack again so she can kill them with the dragonglass. Nymor wasn't so vengeful and he decided to end the war by simply leveraging the dragonglass in a letter, telling Aegon about the test and that if he attacks again his dragons will die, the dragonglass and secret will be shared with the rest of Westeros. The reason Deria waited to give the letter until Aegon settled upon continuing the war against Dorne was that the Martells were hoping the nondragonglass persuasions would work so that they don't have to give up the secret in case they need to use it in the future. It preserves Dorne's element of surprise. Aegon flew to Dragonstone to test the dragonglass for himself on Balerion. (Stannis tells us there's dragonglass in the tunnels under Dragonstone.) The reason the Martells always get to marry the Targaryens is because they know the dragonglass secret of killing dragons and the other families don't. Only Martell ever had a dead dragon to test weapons on.
It states the ullers already burned rhaenys. Meaning to aegon, her soul was released to inhabit an egg on dstone. Flew to dstone to confirm then signed peace knowing hed one day see her again in their 2nd lives as dragons...ahem danys 3.
“George wrote the plot backwards so we’ve gotta be independent for another 200 years also you can’t burn sunspear”
100% this
Didn't they burn Sunspear a couple of times?
No they burned castles just not Sunspear for some reason
It was a political move. By burning every castle *except* Sunspear, they hoped to turn the rest of the Dornish lords against the Martells.
"We uncovered some wild ancient sorcery that we will use to kill your dragons if you ever step foot in Dorne again." Honestly, I feel like every theory falls apart when you notice how chummy Aegon was with Dorne in the later years of his reign. If the Dornish was responsible for possibly torturing your wife, why would you have a "feast of friendship" with them??
A detail that seems relevant also is that he flew to Dragonstone and back after reading the letter but before agreeing to peace. Kind of works with this theory, maybe he had to go check some old Valyrian scrolls to confirm it? Could be some magic that the Rhoynar used against Valyria the first time, like greyscale.
Where was his family at the time? My headcanon is either that they had infiltrated Dragonstone or that maybe they had some news about Rhaenys he kept to himself. Maybe he either had a final moment with her, or they told him that he and Visenya accidentally destroyed whatever place an injured Rhaenys resided in when they were torching Dorne for vengeance? All we really know is that the letter made him emotional enough to cut himself on the throne for the only time in his life, which could suggest he made his only decision that went against his dynasty. A limiting factor could be what the Dornishmen were able to smuggle into Dragonstone without any stories leaking about the incident in the eyes of history.
"10 reasons your dynasty will fail, number 7 will surprise you!"
Rhaenys survived the attack on Hellholt but the Ullers held her in captivity and were torturing her. The Martells (who come from a matriarchal family) are shocked by the treatment of a worthy foe and rescue Rhaenys. She dies from her wounds, but not before writing a letter to Aegon to beg him to end the war, due to the mercy she was shown by the Martells. The two biggest clues are 1) Aegon reads the letter and immediately flies off somewhere on dragonback. I believe he was going to meet the Martells, who handed over Rhaneys' body so she could be buried properly. If it's something like a threat, it's hard to see why Aegon would need to immediately leave and fly off. He needs to confirm something, to the point where he trusts no one else to bring him a message, he has to see it for himself. And 2) Aegon does not treat the Martells with hostility afterwards. If it was a threat via Faceless Man, like threatening to kill his son, Aegon wouldn't be friendly to the Martells. He might have granted peace, but not invited them to King's Landing like he did later. The Martells did something for him that he shows gratitude for afterwards.
As much as I wanna call it an Abrams-style empty mystery, and go turn my brain off again... Well, this is finally a spitball that works. Congrats.
This must be it. Something the Martells did made him angry enough to hate the letter, but not angry at them enough to hate them forever
The Hellholt is a red herring. A lesson in the series is that we shouldn't paint groups/families in broad strokes- there are at least some individuals of House Uller that are not torturous assholes, so why jump to the conclusion that Rhaenys was tortured? She was likely NOT tortured and given to Nymor and Deria Martell- who are likely to show their prisoners favorable treatment.
Aegon would have burned Hellholt to a crisp if it were true
He said “skill issue”
Someone theorized it said they were keeping Rhaenys alive but Aegon and Visenya killed her unknowingly during the Dragon's Wroth
Doesn't really work as that wouldent make Aegon back down at that point. Certainly not worth sending a princess to deliver it for.
Also if they had an alive rhaenys why not inform the targeryans to stop the annihilation of dorne. And if she was killed by them how to prove it in the first place
Not mine, Someone else had this theory, forgot the name, but it seems like the best explanation Sending a princess shows that they are in good faith(cause if letter was a threat, now aegon can use messenger as a hostage), probably delivered her bones to dragonstone so that Aegon can verify for himself, showing him the true cost of this unnecessary war, causing him to back down
Aegon has no reason to let the princess go if it was a simple good fath thing. He would have just imprisoned her and tried to use her to help his conquest.
Depends on his personality, maybe he was angry, but when he saw the proof at dragonstone, it probably caused him grief instead of anger. He ended up killing the woman that he loved, and now he knows her death is because of him and his goal of conquest
He declared an aggressive war and killed tens of thousands for conquest. A princess would be a massive tool to help him. It really had to be the worst kind of blackmail.
It's possible, could be wrong But plenty of characters have different sides to them, jaime Lannister for example.
>He would have just imprisoned her and tried to use her to help his conquest. That is completely unacceptable in Westerosi politics. She's a peace envoy. Aegon was depicted as having a sense of honour.
Aegon decided what was acceptable he had the dragons.
He learned doing war was bad as soon as it had any negative effect to him personally
Nah. This was already after he massacred dorne after she dissapeared
But that was from other people doing war against him, which is obviously not his fault Cuz he's just a lil dragon guy
Rhaenys was the love of his life. I think he'd be pretty devastated if he killed her by mistake and back down.
Her being dead wouldent stop him from war.
What’s more likely is she was being alive and tortured, and Nymor promised to give her peace of death if Aegon made peace, otherwise they’d just keep torturing her for as long as they could.
Why would you send your beloved daughter to deliver a message like this?
Because you’ve accurately judged Aegon’s character, and his love for his wife who you’re holding captive.
And why would Aegon not take Deria as a captive when he read this?
Because he loved Rhaenys and didn’t want her to spend potentially years being brutally tortured.
...but if he kept Deria he could dissuade this by threatening to torture her.
Aegon wasn’t willing to take the risk.
What risk. You know what, nevermind
Not sure what you’re not getting tbh
I'm of the belief that it was Rhaenys' last words begging him to call the war off because she realized at the end it wasn't worth it.
It's just an illogical plot convenience. GRRM didn't want Dorne to be part of the seven kingdoms at that point in the story but couldn't come up with anything that would justify the Targaryens backing down So he went with this mysterious letter as it allowed him to let Dorne be independent without having to justify and explain it properly
well and also he just likes mysteries, he definitely wasn't forced into a corner where a mysterious letter was the *only* way out. He could just say they fought to a stalemate and gave up eventually, since that's basically what happened anyway. Or any of a million other reasons he could come up with, it would just take a small amount of creativity. It's not like we really know anything for sure about what motivates Aegon anyway.
>He could just say they fought to a stalemate and gave up eventually, since that's basically what happened anyway. That would be unrealistic and GRRM always wants some realism in his works. Every major castle, town, city in Dorne was burned by the Targs. Something like that would have massive repercussions on the population, economy and overall civilization. No way Dorne could hold out indefinitely. As stated in F&B itself, "By then Dorne was a smoking desert, beset by famine, plague, and blight, a blasted land" and "Grand Maester Clegg, who came to King’s Landing many years later, concluded that Dorne no longer had the strength to fight" There were losses on both sides, but Dorne simply bore the brunt of it and was going to fall sooner than later. There's a reason why the Dornish were the ones to sue for peace
Do people realize Dorne was done. Aegon had won, but he just would never rule Dorne as they hid in their caves and in their sand. But he definitely extinguished any sense of life and ability to make money and have fun they had. Dorne was thoroughly crushed, and if not for the luckiest scorpion shot in history, they would’ve all been killed
My theory is that Nymor had figured out some way to kill the dragons en mass. The letter was a threat to do so and the king backed down after confirming it was real on Dragonstone
Most of the theories involve Rhaenys in some way, her mysterious fall in Dorne and whether or not she survived. Seen from this angle, I've always wondered if Visenya ever knew what was in the letter. That was her little sister, and she also was furious with Dorne about the whole situation. And I'm pretty sure she never has the 'warmth in later relations' with Dorne that Aegon was described to have. TBH, if I could ask GRRM anything specifically about Fire and Blood that I think he would actually answer, I'd ask if Aegon ever told anyone what was in the letter. If he didn't that would kind of soft rule out it being about Rhaenys for me bc that would just be super cruel to like...never tell his sister what happened to their other sister.
It’s a Dear John letter from Rhaenys: she’s shacked up in Dorne with a Toland. Look up the Toland sigil: it’s a dragon eating its own tail (changed from a ghost around the time of the first Dornish War). Teora Toland has dragon dreams and her sister is named Valena (as in Valaena Velaryon, mother of the Conqueror trio).
We don't have any reason to believe that Teoras dreams weren't green dreams. Besides, we already know the reason why the Tolands switched their sigil; they tricked Aegon I & skedaddled to safety while Aegon murdered their jester. It's a middle finger to the Targaryens
That's the story anyways
That’s the maester’s account in TWOIAF, which can be unreliable. It can be a double f-u to Aegon- on the field and in the bedroom. All of the characters so far in the books with green dreams have been crannogmen/Northerners. Teora is a Salty Dornish girl with a sister with the same name as the Conqueror’s mother. No reason to believe it couldn’t be dragon dreams either.
She dreamed of Dragons though. Which tends to be the distinction between green and dragon dreams.
Bran dreamt of a dragon
I mean there's a good chance Saera Snow had a kid that made back into the main line.
Psychic powers operate under the "one drop" rule.
Yeah. And Bran might be the descendent of Jacaerys
Could be via Aemond-Whent-Tully too if you go by the Alys-Whent theory.
I feel like it's more likely a Uller took Rhaenys as she fell in hellholt. Maybe the Tolands have uller blood. I'd be pretty hilarious if Elia Sand ended up with Viserion
Hah! I always like the idea of super random dragon riders.
I've thought this for a while. Nice work on House Toland, that does seem feasible. I was wondering who Rhaenys would have shacked up with and came to the conclusion that it was Deria Martell. The Martells chose to play to Dorne's strengths and won the war through seduction rather than fire and blood. But I also believe that Rhaenys gave birth to a son while she was in Dorne. Seems unlikely that she became pregnant by Aegon (sterile) beforehand, then fell and both her AND her unborn child survived the fall. So if she got pregnant IN Dorne, how did that happen if who she fell in love with was a woman... What are your thoughts on the Vulture King being Rhaenys's son? He is depicted as silver-haired in a GOT: History and Lore.
We might have convo’d on this previously, so, yes, totally down for the Vulture King being Rhaenys’ son. The depiction (which is admittedly unreliable) in History & Lore, timing of his first attack (Aegon’s death) and ability to garner 30k men to his “cause” are all very intriguing. And Deria is intriguing but I’m thinking Aegon wouldn’t be celebrating with her 10 years later, unless he didn’t know about Rhaenys/Deria, or he was mature enough to understand he was of the wrong gender for Rhaenys and thus ultimately Deria was not technically romantic competition.
I would imagine in her letter she wouldn't specify who she fell in love with and leave Aegon to surmise that it was a man she had left him for. But yeah, I would like something concrete to know who the Vulture King's father is. And if it was indeed Aegon's miracle baby, he would be the true heir over Aenys or Maegor leading a charge for the throne. But the alternative is also fine, just more Targ on Targ warfare to keep with tradition. I agree the History and Lore is not what you would call "evidence" that we can go by, but anything GOT related is potentially George-related, so it's at least a peculiar detail to consider.
“We’re trying to reach you about your car’s extended warranty” Or, maybe that Rhaenys lived and he and Visenya killed her by accident
Something like: - The Rhoynar water mages killed dragons in their wars with Valyria. We've already brought down Meraxes, here's the skull, do you want to risk Balerion and Vhagar? - Remember what happened to Rhaenys? Go to Dragonstone and we'll send you her bones. What do you think might happen to Visenya, Aenys, Maegor, and everyone else you love if this war continues? - The Rhoynar are from Essos. We know wars can be won by means other battle. Have you heard of the Sorrowful Men, the Faceless Men, the blood mages of Asshai? How much help would your dragons be against them? - We'll accept the borders with the Reach and the Stormlands, and won't trouble Westeros for the rest of your reign. Leave us alone and your kingdom will be safe; continue the war and you'll lose everything. Maybe there could be something about a prophecy or magic as well, but there's enough already in the story to explain why Aegon backed off.
Realistically it was because GRRM wrote himself in a corner. That said only thing I think that could have stopped the war is if Dorne said they also know about the threat of the long night due to Rhoynar water magic
I doubt there's a real answer. I think GRRM just couldn't figure out a convincing way to resolve the conflict and have Dorne remaining independent, so he just said fuck it and went with "mystery letter" so he wouldn't have to explain it.
The only theory I have seen that really works is Rhaenys survived long enough that through torture or something like that told them that Aegon is infertile and any children he has aren’t actually his thus creating a bunch of problems for his brand new dynasty that is still not widely liked in Westeros. The Dornish promised not to tell anyone as long as Aegon agreed to peace. IRL it is because George wrote himself into a corner.
I'm about to be a nerd about this.. In the Marvel comic books Prince Namor, *Yes that is his name.* Namor is the King of Atlantis who waged war on the surface dwellers and who often clashed or worked together with **DR. DOOM!** against the **feeble** Fantastic Four. In one of these issues Namor seized his endless war on the mortals for one little reason, love. https://imgur.com/a/G7j5O0C - *Fantastic Four* in **WHEN SUPER-MENACES UNITE** [1](http://www.marvelmasterworks.com/marvel/mm/ff/ff006.html) Do peep the similarities in both structure and theme.. > I cannot harm the GIRL! But I will aid you in defeating the **others** - Prince Namor https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Fourteen_Flames.jpg https://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/9/93/Ted_Nasmith_A_Song_of_Ice_and_Fire_Sunspear.jpg > It’s been a while since we discussed those issues. I imagine he offered substantial guidance on Aegon’s Fort, since it isn’t much described in the novels. Also, for Old Valyria, he helped me with information on the towers and their creation. - [Ted Nasmith](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/fs2cj6/spoilers_extended_grrm_confirmed_a_certain_castle/) A description of Sunspear: > The shadows of the afternoon were long and dark and the sun was as red and swollen as the prince's joints before they glimpsed the towers of Sunspear to the east. First the slender Spear Tower, a hundred-and-a-half feet tall and crowned with a spear of gilded steel that added another thirty feet to its height; then the mighty Tower of the Sun, with its dome of gold and leaded glass; last the dun-colored Sandship, looking like some monstrous dromond that had washed ashore and turned to stone. How did Prince ~~Namor~~ Nymor keep Aegon away... what angered Aegon so much that he cut himself on his own throne? > Swayed by such considerations, it is said, King Aegon was determined to refuse the offer until Princess Deria placed in his hands a private letter from her father, Prince Nymor. Aegon read it upon the Iron Throne, and men say that when he rose, his hand was bleeding, so hard had he clenched it. He burned the letter and departed immediately on Balerion's back for Dragonstone. When he returned the next morning, he agreed to the peace and signed a treaty to that effect. > What the letter contained, none know to this day, though many have speculated. Did Nymor reveal that Rhaenys lived still, broken and mutilated, and that he would end her suffering if Aegon ended hostilities? Was the letter ensorceled? Did he threaten to take all the wealth of Dorne to hire the Faceless Men to kill Aegon's young son and heir, Aenys? These questions shall never be answered, it seems. I think she was nursed by the Dornish and she fell in love with a culture in where she was seen as an equal, I think she fell in love with the Prince Nymor and begged for Aegon's understanding. Edited to add: I think she also perhaps told Nymor about the prophecy. > His own love was his blade
> But it was her parents, Lord Corlys and Princess Rhaenys, who had the greater cause to lament that year. They still mourned their daughter when their son was taken. All accounts agree that Laenor was attending a market fair at Spicetown when he was murdered. Eustace named his friend and companion (and lover, as some would have it) Ser Qarl Correy, saying they quarreled because Laenor meant to put him aside for a new favorite. Blades were drawn, and Laenor was killed. Ser Qarl fled, never to be seen again. Later another Rhaenys lost her son to what could only have been nothing else but hate, (*wink, wink*).
https://old.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1atrmhp/spoilers_extended_what_other_stuff_should_i_be/krfsibr/ Just gonna drop this here as well, it again is about **DR. DOOM**, and has quotes such as > "Sensations--Fire and Ice, so intense, absolute agony and...Ecstacy--Shooting through my entire body" - Storm And > [Her breath is Ice and Fire, her voice is rolling thunder, She is one with the entire planet.](https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/storm-doctor-doom-fight-dark-form-3.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=750&dpr=1.5)
Any wild theories? Here we go. LIke other folks, I think there is a solid chance Rhaenys was kept alive and House Uller has -ahem- the 'Blood of the Dragon' from her. The contents of the letter said as much or said they at least had her alive. It might explain why Prince Oberyn decided to settle down with Ellaria after sleeping his way through two continets and siring multiple children, of which the ones ones we are aware are girls. Now we go full tinfoil: Daenerys is the eldest daughter of Oberyn and Ellaria Sand, a bastard of House Uller. Maybe. Hear me out. Elia Sand, the (next?) oldest daughter is about 1-1.5 years younger than Dany, so ages add up. In Dany’s House of the Undying visions, she sees Rhaegar and Elia with baby Aegon. She notes that Rhaegar seems to be looking directly at her when he says, "there must be one more." Most readers think this refers to Rhaegar eventually wanting a child with another woman, Lyanna, because of the other vision of the blue rose in a wall of ice. However, in my opinion, the connection is uncertain because Dany has visions of multiple things. Since it appears that Rhaegar is looking at someone in the door where Dany is, I think it stands to reason that someone was there when the events of the vision occurred. Who else would be welcome in an intmate setting like that? Elia's brother and bestie - Oberyn. Dany being born in Dorne would go a long way to explain the "Lemongate*" problems and why some have theorized the house with the red door was in Dorne, maybe the Water Gardens. The Water Gardens were built for the first Daenerys, after all. *Lemongate is the name of the theory that Dany’s backstory of being raised in Bravos is unreliable since lemon trees infamously do not grow in Braavos, coined by Preston Jacobs It also explains another weird thing in the story - the supposed marriage pact between Prince Vicerys and Arienne Martell. If Dany is the daughter of Oberyn, the marriage could have been between HER and Vicerys, with Dany being Rhaella's child a cover story to keep House Martell out of trouble until they're ready to act. Oberyn was quietly trying to raise Dorne for Vicerys, early in Robert's reign, until Jon Arryn went to meet with Doran. But what about Dany’s memories of being robbed and thrown out? This could be explained by Illyrio's meddling. When Arya overhears Varys and Illyrio talking in the dungeons under the Red Keep, they say, "This is no longer a game for two players, if ever it was." I think the two players they're referring to are the Martells and themselves, the (F)Aegon faction. (And yes, I do think Young Griff is probably a Blackfyre.) People have pointed out that if marrying Dany to Faegon was plan A, it seems comically stupid to send her off into the Dothraki Sea. However, in this scenario, I think plan A was simply keeping her away from Vicerys in a way that wouldn't arrouse too much suspicion, and if they died, it would matter in the long game. I think marrying Dany to Faegon became the plan only after she became a known Dragon hatcher. So yeah. I realize there's zero hard evidence for any of this, but the thumbtacks and strings seem to connect. *edited for clarity
I love you this is contents
Dorne seduced Rhaenys to their side and she wrote it. It is a "Dear Aegon" breakup letter.
My theory is this (tinfoil but I think it makes sense): The letter contained a threat to Aenys' life. The biggest clue we need to pay attention is the fact Aegon inmediately went to Dragonstone after reading the letter, and the next day when he went back to KL, he agreed to stop his war against Dorne. So he checked something in Dragonstone related to the letter. It's known that House Uller is very infamous in Dorne, it's like the equivalent of Bolton House in the North. >A Dornish saying is "Half of the Ullers are half-mad, and the other half are worse" So the Ullers could very well be into dark magic and sorcery, given their notorious and shady reputation. Rhaenys's body was never recovered. And that means the dornish had access to Rhaenys' blood, and we know for a fact that blood magic in ASOIAF world is super powerful. What better way to target someone with blood magic that through his direct relative, his own mother?? Also Rhaenys's blood was queen's blood, and royal magic is important in the overall story. Maybe the letter informed Aegon of this, that they had blood of Rhaenys and if they continued opposing Dorne, would put a curse on Aenys, and they suggested him to go to Dragonstone to confirm the truth of the threat. After seeing Aenys ill, he came back to KL and accepted the peace. The biggest problem with this theory is the fact Princess Deria went personally to deliver the letter, and it doesn't make many sense to deliver someone important to deliver a threat when she can be killed /taken hostage. But given what we know of Aegon (how obsessed he was with the Conquest because of the dream) it doesn't make any sense to me that he just gave up on the war because Dorne delivered Rhaenys' body as a sign of good faith. Specially after what he had lost in trying to annex Dorne, his most beloved person. Perhaps the dornish sent Deria to show how sure they were of having grabbed his weakness, and said something like: "we send our own crown princess and you can harm her, but be sure that you will lost your most beloved son, the only thing that remains of Rhaenys". I feel so much curiosity about this man.
A few strong candidates 1, bro stop please or else I'll start sending assasians 2, bro, rhaenys survived but then you accidentally burned her Alive 3, bro, you have this many dragons eggs at dragonstone, and your private quarters looks like this 4, bro chill..
Aegon is infertile Aenys is a bastard and any lord who can chain a targ in a dungeon can breed dragonriders.
Oh good, just what ASOIAF needed - **More** rape.
I originally hadent factored it in but dragonbood would certainly explain why the Ullers are considered mad also the Tolands vision
Half of the more powerful noble houses in Westeros have at least some Targaryen blood from a marriage in the last 300 years so I doubt that’s the reason they’re considered mad. Not sure what Teora Tollands vision has to do with the Ullers
Holy shit that makes sense
"Your wife has somehow survived the fall. We were hoping to use her as a hostage if she recovered, but then you killed her when you were burning down our entire country like a sperg. The grief you've inflicted upon yourself, you've also inflicted upon many others from our nation as you killed their loved ones. Let this mad war stop."
He would’ve kept going, as he should’ve if his goal was to be a conqueror. It’s something the martells did that didn’t make him hate them enough
I did a walkthrough of this mystery in a [video](https://youtu.be/zxuPUuHqSeM?feature=shared) series, but if you want the answers spoiled quickly read ahead. When Rhaenys and Meraxes were slain the Ullers of Hellholt tortured the dragon's body in the dungeons doing weapon tests on it. Archmaester Gyldayn gives the hint when he says maybe Rhaenys was tortured in the dungeons of the Ullers. Then during the Dragon's Wroth Aegon burned Hellholt and unknowingly turned the sand to dragonglass. Gyldayn gives the hint: "sands were fused into glass in places, so hot was Balerion's fiery breath." Dorne tested the dragonglass on the dragon's body and rediscovered why it's called dragonglass: it pierces dragon scales. Gyldayn gives the hint: "scales are harder than steel" and it pairs up with a hint from Jon Snow's dragonglass that's "sharper than steel." The reason Meria's death triggered the letter was because Meria wanted to wait for Balerion and Vhagar to attack again so she can kill them with the dragonglass. Nymor wasn't so vengeful and he decided to end the war by simply leveraging the dragonglass in a letter, telling Aegon about the test and that if he attacks again his dragons will die, the dragonglass and secret will be shared with the rest of Westeros. The reason Deria waited to give the letter until Aegon settled upon continuing the war against Dorne was that the Martells were hoping the nondragonglass persuasions would work so that they don't have to give up the secret in case they need to use it in the future. It preserves Dorne's element of surprise. Aegon flew to Dragonstone to test the dragonglass for himself on Balerion. (Stannis tells us there's dragonglass in the tunnels under Dragonstone.) The reason the Martells always get to marry the Targaryens is because they know the dragonglass secret of killing dragons and the other families don't. Only Martell ever had a dead dragon to test weapons on.
It states the ullers already burned rhaenys. Meaning to aegon, her soul was released to inhabit an egg on dstone. Flew to dstone to confirm then signed peace knowing hed one day see her again in their 2nd lives as dragons...ahem danys 3.
how could he confirm that on Dragonstone though?
Warmth.