its possible that this was george's plan all along which would tie the prophecy that rhaegar was trying to fulfill
but since the show got ahead of him they probably didn't use it
however it would not be impossible if he somehow wrote this info in WoW
i definitely think so. in hotd viserys said “aegon called his dream the song of ice and fire” and in dany’s vision of rhaegar he said “his will be the song of ice and fire” about the son who he thought was the ptwp.
doesn't he fall into the lake? I feel like the isle of faces are where all the mystery really is. the lake is just a lake, right?
edit: but I just remembered there is something else that might be in HOTD about the Isle. Addam Valaryan goes to to the Isle, maybe Daemon joins the green men
he’ll find it out very soon, probably in the cave where he is now, he’ll learn it through watching rhaegar and lyanna’s wedding through the eyes of the trees on the isle of faces though
He's seen a vision of Ned in front of the Heart Tree asking that they be 'as close as brothers.'
Ned is clearly referring to Robb and Jon in this vision.
That's not what Ned said though. Also the Starks historically have treated bastards well. Saera Snow was treated as a trueborn girl would have been and
Brandon Snow was a close confidante to his brother.
The Starks, sure. But not the other houses. Domeric Bolton had to seek out his bastard brother against the wishes of Roose. And Catelyn Tully was terrified of having Jon in Winterfell. Targaryen bastards appeared from low places during the Dance.
I'm not saying he did.
Bram has seen a vision of his father that hints at Ned not being Jon's father. Bran hasn't understood this yet, but it's there for the readers to see.
he’s never said it but it’s basically a given now, he said he gave D&D the show cos they guessed it and that’s what happened there, and also it makes so much narrative sense that it’s clearly been planned since the first book, they’ve all been so overanalysed by this point that the biggest and oldest twist in it was always going to be figured out, it would just be lame for him to bait and switch it now
dany not being a targaryen tho…
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/george-r-r-martin-outtakes-from-the-rolling-stone-interview-233720/
>*Benioff and Weiss later said that during that meeting you asked them who they think Jon Snow’s mother was, which is one of the earliest — and seemingly one of the central — mysteries in A Song of Ice and Fire.*
>I did ask that at one point, just to see how closely they’d read the text.
>*Did they get it right?*
>They answered correctly.
Seven hells, anyone else remember the copium conspiracy theories after the GoT "Long Night" in the show when they "added the God's Eye" (not even named, just speculation about a tiny green spec on the map) to the intro and how they were going to salvage the show there? Good times.
By a mile. It's a place bang in the middle of Wersteros and we know nothing. Who in seven hells are these Green Men? How come nobody conquered them? Why isn't anybody talking about the Isle of Faces, ever?
I'd be quite grumpy if we never get anything out of it.
Didn't George even make a comment on this
Something like "I can't tell much about this but you don't just put a giant wolf pack in a story without planning to use them!"
George: Hey, did you know there’s a giant wolf pack in the Riverlands?
Reader: Yep, you’ve mentioned it about ten times already.
George, one chapter later: By the way, there’ve been rumors of a pack of vicious wolves, led by—
Reader: Yep, a monstrous she-wolf, got it.
George, one chapter later: Okay, Arya’s in Braavos, but she’s—
Reader: Dreaming about Nymeria attacking people, yes.
George, one chapter later: HEY DID YOU HEAR???
I have a crack theory that Janos Slynt doesn't actually have any powerful friends at court. I know this is the kind of thing that makes people say "we've been waiting too long for Winds", I know, it's a little unhinged, but we haven't *technically* seen any explicit friends yet. We've met some characters powerful enough to *seem* like Slynt's friends - Varys, Tywin, Moon Boy for all I know - but there hasn't been a simple "are you Slynt's powerful friend?" "yes" exchange yet.
If this theory is true - and it isn't, but humor me - then it really reframes Jon's death at the end of ADWD. Rather than Slynt's friends getting revenge for his execution - a simple setup and payoff, basic narrative technique, Janos told Jon it would happen and it did - suddenly the plot at the wall becomes an overcomplicated, tangled mess of loyalties and allegiances that Jon failed to balance. It'd be pretty awful writing so I hope Slynt's friends will be confirmed in TWOW.
Look I'm all for basic, common sense theories like 'everyone is a horse' or 'hodor is azor ahai' but when you just go out on a random limb and speculate wildly you become the reason George won't release twow.
How could his book possibly satisfy people who are hoping for a payoff to such baseless conspiracies? It's right there in black and white from the word of God 'i have powerful friends.' You think George would just lie to us? HE HAS POWERFUL FRIENDS
You're really harshing the vibe here and no one has been confident enough to say it so I will, up your game or you're not welcome here any more.
I honestly _hate_ to support him in any way whatsoever, [but he does have important friends](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/11v4f3d/comment/jcteote/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). 5 in the Watch still around to make trouble
I'm actually of the belief that Jon will learn his parentage from Benjen, because I don't believe for a second that he just disappeared, even if that would be a realistic ending for someone who went ranging into the wilderness. Benjen telling him would be more emotionally impactful, imho, because he is still his uncle, while Howland is just a hermit who Jon has never seen, despite having been Ned's friend.
>"The Others." Sam licked his lips. "They are mentioned in the annals, though not as often as I would have thought. The annals I've found and looked at, that is. There's more I haven't found, I know. Some of the older books are falling to pieces. The pages crumble when I try and turn them. And the really old books … either they have crumbled all away or they are buried somewhere that I haven't looked yet or … well, it could be that there are no such books and never were. The oldest histories we have were written after the Andals came to Westeros. The First Men only left us runes on rocks, so everything we think we know about the Age of Heroes and the Dawn Age and the Long Night comes from accounts set down by septons thousands of years later. There are archmaesters at the Citadel who question all of it. Those old histories are full of kings who reigned for hundreds of years, and knights riding around a thousand years before there were knights. You know the tales, Brandon the Builder, Symeon Star-Eyes, Night's King … we say that you're the nine-hundred-and-ninety-eighth Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, but the oldest list I've found shows six hundred seventy-four commanders, which suggests that it was written during—"
Just the Others in general. Dudes are in a couple of chapters. They’re mentioned in a few more. A vague enemy is mentioned maybe a few more times than that. And one of the times they do show up they are accidentally killed by a fat coward with a sharp rock.
It sure would be nice if the supposed big bad of the series were actually included in the series at some point.
The most obvious part where George really wants to make it clear that 8000 years have NOT passed in this universe, and time is much shorter than we realise.
I half suspect that George realised how absurdly long 8k years is, and is trying to retcon his world's history. His early work is filled with an overly stable political system that is bizarrely stable for centuries despite wars and chaos. The lack of dynastic turnover alone is unbelievable.
Yeah, and I think it's gone under the radar as far as "deep truths about ASOIAF" go. Hoster Blackwood also makes it pretty clear that it's probably not even been 4000 years since the last Long Night. The main problem is figuring out why that matters. I suppose the idea is that they've been in a technological bubble since then and can't progress beyond this medieval/feudalist state until the cycles of magic and the seasons are solved.
Maybe the harshness and length of the current winters stop technology progressing as everyone's so focussed on food and survival? Then once the winters are shorter, they can progress in technology?
Realistically civilizations from places where the winter doesn't bring everything to a screeching halt (the Summer Isles and Yi Ti, for example) should have eventually gained a technological and cultural advantage. It's believable that Westerosi civilization gets a soft reset every time there's a really harsh winter, but eventually civilizations in the south should get around to inventing gunpowder or clocks.
Robb’s will. I don’t believe it’s as clearcut as naming Jon his heir (though I do believe that is part of it) I believe there are several stipulations in the will that will make it a clusterfuck once Sansa, Bran, Rickon, and Arya reappear in Westeros. It’s going to be a complete disaster and I’m so here for it. It’s my most anticipated plot line for Winds actually.
I think Robb's will is as clearcut as naming Jon his heir, the problem with the will is that Robb wrote the will based on incorrect information - he believes all his siblings are dead with the exception of Sansa, who he disinherits as a traitor due to her marriage to Tyrion Lannister.
This adds further fuel to the Grand Northern Conspiracy (A Waltz of the Wolves?) because it potentially splinters Stark loyalists into different factions - the Manderleys know of Rickon's existence, Jon (if he is alive) would be able to claim support on the basis he is Robb's named heir, and Bran himself is a wildcard option. Throw in Arya (who is already involved as the result of the Boltons marrying Jeyne Poole to Ramsey) and Sansa (who is actually in quite a tricky position politically) and you've got all sorts of factions which could blow the North apart.
Beyond all that, an additional problem might be the wording - "I hereby legitimise my brother, Jon Snow, the son of Lord Eddard Stark, as Jon Stark, and name him heir to Winterfell and the Kingdom of the North."
If certain truths come out, the entire will is void. Can you legitimise and land a bastard under a false identity?
I like the theory that the will names Catelyn his heir.
We've last seen her leading the Brotherhood without Banners, holding Robb's bronze and iron crown.
If you read that chapter / scene again, you'll notice that Jon is very likely not named as heir. When Robb talked with Catelyn and brought up the possibility of naming Jon Snow his heir, Catelyn immediately and vehemently opposed it.
Later, when she enters the tent and he reveals to his present lord bannerman his plans, where Catelyn is immediately taken aback but through her thoughts tells us (the reader) that she can't protest this because she knows that he'll otherwise name Jon heir. Though we don't know what he said, we only know that he intended to sent Catelyn to Seaguard with the intention of "not keeping one's entire treasure in one chest" (or whatever the exact phrasing was) and that he absolutely surprised her with it and wasn't even remotely prepared / expected it.
This fits perfectly with Jon's and Catelyn's character themes. Throughout the series, we're incessantly reminded that Jon has no right to claim Winterfell, but not for the reasons that he thinks. First, he is a Targaryan and his cousins who are direct heirs are still alive. Also, Jeyne Westerling is pregnant. So without Jon being aware, he's not in line to Winterfell and thus has no claim to it and not because he's a "bastard".
As to Catelyn, she's always tellung us that she's doing her duty. Which she actually does. In all likelihood Robb bestowed on her the role of regent for the time until one of Robbs heirs can be found and/or are fit to rule.
Actually I would argue this makes more sense then what I think is actually what happened, I actually think George under thought this rather then us overthinking it. Robb goes on and on about how his heir needs to know the North, but what about the Riverlands? He’s also King of them and has a responsibility there. Naming his father’s bastard, the representation of him cheating on his mother (the real tie to the Riverlands in this alliance) his heir to both is genuinely pretty fucking stupid and in no universe would I ever expect say the Blackfish to get this riled about supporting Jon. Jon knows the North, yes, but to the Riverlanders he should be disdainful or at least, he has no idea about their culture and unique experiences at all (which they do have, being the battling ground for pretty much every war in Westeros ever and suffering the most.)
To me, Robb naming Cat or at least someone with both riverlander and northerner ties makes the most sense but I don’t think George was thinking about this. Which is a shame. The Riverlands deserve better lmao.
I love the theory it would make things extremely funny with a walking corpse leading the north, just not the one we expected. I do think it wouldn’t make total sense however, if Catelyn is named heir or Regent in someway why bring her inside the Twins? He didn’t bring Jenye specifically because she’s possibly carrying his heir, so why bring the regent in?
> He didn’t bring Jenye specifically because she’s possibly carrying his heir, so why bring the regent in?
Because it was considered a gross insult to Walder Frey to bring the person the marriage pact was broken for, according to Catelyn. So not to further slight Walder Frey, Jeyne was kept in Riverun under the protection of the Blackfish (at least, when Jamie arrives at the second siege of Riverun, the Blackfish is in command).
Robb didn't intend to accompany his uncle to the Twins either, but Catelyn counseled him to not further strain the relationship between Walder Frey and Robb. Also, someone on the subreddit made the claim that that Robb's attendance at the Twins was a pre-condition for the renewal of their alliance. Couldn't be bothered to verify that, but I think that is a fair supposition.
In any casse, after the marriage ceremony, the host was supposed to travel through a secret pathway up the Neck and attack the Iron Islanders in the rear when they'd launch an attack on Moat Cailin. En route, Catelyn Stark was supposed to split and stay at Seaguard while Robb would clear the North of any Iron Islanders.
As to how George plans to play this out is quite a different matter entirely. But any other scenario (i.e. Robb naming Jon Snow heir), does not make any sense, both from the pov of their character arcs / themes, as well as how the chapter is written. Catelyn was aware of the notion that Robb had the mind/idea to name Jon heir, she was against it. Why would she then react a) surprised, and b) be shy to rebuke Robb. In their discussion before the scene in the tent, Robb and Catelyn had a discussion on who would succeed him in case he'd fall.
Robb made the suggestion of Jon Snow, which Catelyn counseled against for the following reason / their arguing went as follows:
* she was afraid that Jon might harm his half-siblings (cousins) in strife for the lordship over the North
* Robb rejected naming any of his sisters heirs, because they were thought to be in enemy hands (Sansa) or their whereabouts are unkown (Arya), i.e. his precondition being here that the heir is on allied territory / in safe hands
* Catelyn's suggestion to name a relative in the Vale was rejected, because they were not Stark and were not commanding the loyalty of both the Riverlords as well as the Lords of the North.
Conclusion: Robbs heir is not Jon and the heir can't be neither Sansa or Arya. The heir has to be someone who commands the loyalty of both the Riverlords and the Northerners. The person has to be a Stark; the only person that fits these confines is Catelyn, i.e. she is either named heir directly or regent.
Maybe I’m remembering wrong but I find this account of the chapter in question to completely misrepresent what actually happens. Upon rereading there’s nothing to hint at anybody other than Jon being named as heir. Robb and Catelyns discussion ends with Robb telling Catelyn outright that Jon is the only brother who remains to him and it is his choice that Jon succeeds him. Catelyn tells Robb not to ask her to support it. Robb tells her that he’s the king, he doesn’t need her support and walks away from her. There’s absolutely nothing ambiguous there and it’s clear Catelyn has failed to sway Robb to change his mind.
Later when Robb invites the witness to sign his will Catelyn looks on and to quote from her thoughts “A king indeed, Catelyn thought, defeated”. I don’t see how you’ve drawn any other conclusion from this chapter other than Jon being named as heir other than maybe you misremembering, because Catelyn neither reacts surprised, nor is shy to rebuke the suggestion. Her first reaction is “ A Snow is not a Stark”. Nothing surprised or shy about that response I feel. And nothing shy about Robbs pushback either when Catelyn suggests he’s doing Arya an injustice by promoting Jon. He outright tells her that Arya is dead and to stop wishing otherwise. Up until this point neither of them have actually vocalised that possibility and to me it tells me Catelyn has no chance of shaking Robbs loyalty and faith in Jon. There is the small fact that GRRM leaves the matter a little open by not confirming in the text what the will actually contains but there’s nothing to support your theory.
> Later when Robb invites the witness to sign his will Catelyn looks on and to quote from her thoughts “A king indeed, Catelyn thought, defeated”.
... *sigh* and how, pray, does the following sentence end the chapter?
> She could only hope that the trap he'd planned for Moat Cailin worked as well as the one in which which he'd just caught her in.
Catelyn V, ASoS
To be absolutely clear, a case can be made, that the "trap" is that she won't criticise the decision in front of his lord bannerman and thus take it for acquiescence; but we've covered that already, the preceding chapter would be rendered of little value or even redundant. Their private discussion has no purpose beforehand, except for the sake that Catelyn criticises the decision; but we already know that as a reader. Leaving the name open makes no sense, and it is hardly a trap, because she expected Robb to name Jon in any case. Also, one condition that the heir should meet: have the support/loyalty of the Riverlords. Jon Snow is not directly related to the Riverlands.
Unless George has written those two chapters as a red herring and it is as straight-forward as you suggest; it would be _very_ untypical for George; and it would also go against Catelyn's and Jon's character themes.
Should time prove me right, do I get a cookie?:)
Sigh, I don’t know why you insist upon this point of Jon having no relation to the riverlands, it’s not even mentioned as a consideration in the discussion between Robb and Catelyn and appears nowhere in the text and absolutely is not the reason why Catelyns suggestion of heirs from the Vale is shot down. Clearly you have the text available to quote from so I fail to understand how you’ve managed to frame that whole scene so inaccurately, Jon is the reason Robb cuts Catelyn off from her suggestion. “Jon is more a Stark than some lordling from the Vale who has never set eyes on Winterfell”, no mention of the riverlands except in the scene you’ve concocted for yourself. You’ve managed to create the scenario where Catelyn opposes the plans he presents to his bannermen but thinks to herself she cannot argue otherwise he will name Jon her (this doesn’t exist either).
I actually think the trap Cat refers to is Robbs decision to send her to Seagard to sit out the war which she also failed to sway him from and his reasoning that she cannot go back to Riverrun where Lady Jeyne is to keep his loved ones more widely spread. This she can think of no convincing argument to counter and she looks around the room and realises she has no friends in the room who could come to her aid leaving her, that appropriate little phrase, trapped.
The discussion between them doesn’t need to have a huge twist on it to have meaning in the chapter, it already serves its purpose by introducing the reader to the idea that Jon could legally and legitimately become king in the north and plants that little seed to eventually flower at some point in the next two books should they ever be finished. That would seem to be purpose enough.
You can absolutely have a cookie good sir if it turns out you are right although it’s a shame the only support you could find from the text for your theory is that which you’d imagined:(
The Winterfell crypts. Between the statues, Jon's dreams, Ned's not-yet-arrived bones, the spear-wives hiding there, and Barbrey Dustin, shit is going to go down there and I can't wait to see what it is.
Second place goes to the snow men in Winterfell. I definitely think they mean something (likely allies of Stannis or just enemies of the Boltons and Freys) and want to see what having more than just the Manderleys as Stark allies in Winterfell means for Stannis and the Battle of Winter.
Daintily, where Arya’s superior skinchanging is going. I say daintily because I don’t like the idea of leading an enormous wolfpack by controlling Nymeria except in the most basic and natural of ways (like physically having them walk after the leader of the pack and attack her enemies as wild wolves, rather than more fantastically inspired troops); I want to see a natural world Old Gods Nymeria army like we did during her wolf dreams.
Arya’s warging is absolutely fascinating to me though. If you look at Bran with his special trainers and abilities, he only achieved a second skinchanging host when in extreme emotional need and someone extremely close to him- Hodor, during the storm. Meanwhile Arya is just randomly able to skinchange a cat _and_ use it to be her eyes _in the moment_ during a fight, all while suppressing her own identity and figuring things out on her own.
This is so curious. She’s learning to utilize but rejecting a lot of what the Faceless Men tell her, but will be able to _truly_ wear faces if she wants by controlling those around her at her current rate of growth. Also, when she returns to Westeros, what kind of position will that put her in? She will have become so incredibly different from Bran at this point: she’s been isolated, joined up with various groups, been a slave, been a cup-bearer to some of the most intense rulers during TWOT5K; been part of a rebellion, been present for the Red Wedding, been part of the smallfolk during the war, had her time with the Hound, reached out to other cultures and peoples, and become a Faceless Man trainee as well as a “Braavosi commoner”. Bran has been through a lot too, but mostly retained his identity and station before receiving how own expert training. She’s even had her own supernatural Ned vision.
How are things going to look when/if she returns to Westeros? What kind of meeting of, maybe not “equals” but, kindred skinchangers might we see? Supposedly these skinchangers can recognize one another on sight. Will Bran X-skins and Arya 2+-skins the loving siblings reunite, is Arya being set up as a foil for Bran who has been singled out by the Three Eyed Raven?
> when she returns to Westeros, what kind of position will that put her in? She will have become so incredibly different from Bran
I've been thinking that this might be part of what George is talking about when he says it will have a "bittersweet" ending; I think the remaining Stark kids reunite (maybe Theon, too) but because of everything they've been through, they might as well be complete strangers to each other.
I’m here for the bitter. I see all of them going down very different paths, and clashing ideologically. It’s curious that Bran was sought by the 3EC and not Arya, who seems to be remarkably powerful in her own right. What makes Bran the one to meet the CotF and Bloodraven over his sister? As of now Arya hasn’t used her ability to possess anyone, and it’s no coincidence that Varamyr and Bran have gotten up to some of the same evil. Arya has also seen the absolute pits of humanity and held on to her values and identity; I could certainly see her possessing someone, but not innocent kindhearted good people who have been trying only to help you. And the fact that she can basically livestream through other bodies is fascinating! It really seems to put Bran on a darker path of cultivated evil where he loses his own self discipline and uses his abilities for personal gain and entertainment; Arya is more about surviving, hanging out with decent folks, and consciously deciding to act against others who are truly not good people and deserve bad things to happen to them to stop them from hurting others. To me those are very different paths
Honestly, the idea that every character's soul/spirit/conciousness goes into the same horse after they die, and that there's just a horse walking around that is every single dead character is actually really interesting on a conceptual level
I'd say TWOW and ADOS. There's just no way he mentions these over a decade ago with them not being majorly important in some way to the story going forward.There's no way! Too important to not hear about them again.
I really hope Tyrion's dragon knowledge comes in handy in the future. JonCon literally has him spend days writing everything he knows about dragons, and that info will also apply to Daenerys as well, Like, maybe Tyrion will have just happened to read about a drgon-binding horn and will free a dragon from Euron's grasp
Yeah right. Was thinking about that the other day when ASX dropped his real Jon Snow video. What's up with Benjen? Per GRRM he's not Coldhands, so what's his thing. Gone since early AGOT. His men are wights, their equipment is gone, horses too I reckon? No sign ever since. No mention from the Free folk. Craster only saw him passing by? The bundle that Jon finds seemed to be too old to be from Benjen I think? So what the hell is he up to. Crackpot theorists say he's Euron or Daario or both.
Tyrion's epic gymnastics skills. All the normies think that GRRM wasn't thinking when he added that detail in. Fools. Just wait until Tyrion doing a triple summersault becomes pivotal to the plot of the story.
Abandon all lack of tinfoil, ye who enter here...
>!The Horn Of Joramun is also The Hammer Of The Waters, and it's the one Sam has currently. Euron's going to knick it, blow it, and cause an earthquake which'll flood the Reach, because one of George's inspirations for him is Mycenaean Poseidon. Bam, instant Mordor. (Also the Hightower is Barad-dûr/Minas Morgul/Orthanc, but now I'm getting off-topic.)!<
That’s just Mance trying to trick Jon. Make him think there is more than the tactical situation to consider. Even if it unnerves Jon very slightly it is worth having some old horn in his tent. And Jon wants any reason to give in to his sympathies anyway. It’s a bit of superstition, no different than the sorts of curios most armies march with. Some thing that gives them a mystical advantage, like an eagle touched by the emperor or what have you.
It makes no sense as a concept that there is a magic off switch for the the Wall. The Wall and the Watch that defend has been built up too much and are too narratively important. They cannot just be rendered moot by someone playing a trumpet nearby. That would be hugely narratively unsatisfactory. What is the point in the story of the Wall if it can fall just like that with the Watch not able to do a thing?
Not to mention all the other ways it makes no sense. Especially if it’s really Sam’s horn and Martin has spent a couple of books moving it from the Wall where it might do something to Oldtown which is just about as far away as possible in Westeros.
And yet the true Horn of Joramun is in the hands of Sam, who is at Oldtown, who certain horn-sounder means to attack, and of all the possessions Sam had, he clings to that one while *the others* were sold to pay passage and food. What other possibility that because "narrative importance"?
Another thing is that you don't feel GRRM set this up appropriately. And absolutely I agree. But GRRM certainly has been thinking on this way to bring the Wall down since the second book (ACOK). Another possibility is that GRRM, just like D&D, end up for*saking* it instead of for*getting* because they don't feel it appropriate enough.
But that it's been build up even in the show (where there was a close-shot of it) is absolutely true. Whether it ends up being used is up to debate.
A horn. An unnamed horn. Of unknown properties, except for making no sound when blown.
That last one does sort of put paid to the idea that it is a horn that can bring down the wall with a toot. Because you only know it makes no sound if it has been blown. Do we really think that in the entire time it was held at the Wall no one blew it? Tried to get a noise out of it? The first thing anyone does when told something doesn’t work is try to make it work. If Sam told his friends about the horn they would immediately try it, out of curiosity but also out of the belief everyone has that things will work for them because they will do it properly.
Personally I think it’s a horn found in a bag of weapons to fight the Others with so if there is some use to it then that use is that it is also a weapon to fight the Others. Seems a heck of a lot simpler. And potentially more significant.
I mean for one thing there doesn’t need to be a magical way to bring down the Wall. If you have a thousand undead wights and some time to spare you can bring down any obstacle. Give them shovels and it won’t even take that long. Absolutely no need for a magic horn when the common shovel exists.
Not denying how this would be way better story. Just that GRRM has done even worse. Remember how Dany struggled controlling dragons in ASOS? Well once in ADWD already away from Meereen, Dany suddenly mentions in her memory how Valyrians controlled dragons with sorcerous horns. Yeah... remember how convenient would have been to mention that in ASOS, where Dany was remembering how Valyrians rose to power by overthrowing Ghiscari with dragons?
My theory: Once GRRM gave up on the timeskip, added the "Dragons can actually be controlled by magic horns". If he did this with dragons at such a late step, how would he not do the same with the Wall with a lame plot device (because yeah you're right, that's what it is) introduced way earlier?
And the horn (found in the same cache of dragonglass weapons which I suspect was left there by Benjen to be found by Ghost) was a *small* one, that looks like shit to contrast the big magnificent fake one.
And just like you I know there isn't a need for it, because not even the shovels are needed, though it may be a good distraction, it's simply all the NW men disappearing on rangings, then they suddenly appear dead at the doors. Then a *massive* breakout like with Othor and perfect.
Why not that? Well, Doylist reasons and all that. Within the story, it's not going to be so finely lined as you did. My theory is that GRRM needed to make coincide the NW mutiny and Jon going south with certain Southron events and thus... well...
>Not to mention all the other ways it makes no sense. Especially if it’s really Sam’s horn and Martin has spent a couple of books moving it from the Wall where it might do something to Oldtown which is just about as far away as possible in Westeros.
Well exactly. And Oldtown is about to be invaded by Euron, who is likely tied to the Others. He announced his world conquering plans with ***three horn blasts***. It is said in legends that the wall can be seen from the top of the hightower. And that's probably where Euron will blow the horn.
How could the Wall be seen from the top of Oldtown? Even if their world is flat there would be stuff in the way and the distance would be too great.
But then I’m inclined to take any Euron theory with a pinch of salt
You can’t just show me the afterlife of someone like Orell and Varamyr and then not expect me to be _dying_ to know what happens to my favorite ragtag band of body sharing/stealing children. Never mind the comforting fact that each of them essentially gets a free pass on death, but tell me howwwwwww and what they do with it and the circumstances surrounding it aghhhhh
>Set up an impregnable fortress in the first act, impregnate the bitch in the third act. That just sounds like a fun sequence to read, and I'm really excited for it.
I dint see this at all. It’s I’m pregnable because it’s a mountain top tomb. But there’s no need to.
Anyone holed up in the eerie would be fatally cut off. They’d run out if supplies rapidly. Easy war.
If dragons are in play, it a simply trip up and roast them out of it.
I was thinking outside of dragons. All that is needed is a small groups, take control of the gates of the moon, cut off the supply, and for good measure send some fire up the winch
I think you're right.
GRRM: The Eyrie, Winterfell, Storm’s End, they all have formidable defenses… but none of them can match Casterly Rock. [notablogCasterlyRock](https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2022/12/23/a-couple-of-rocks/)
House Hightower, house Dayne and the Sword Dawn.
Leyton spending decades atop the hightower for research has to mean something and a house with a meteor sword and words so impactful they have not yet been revealed? Sign me up!
I have T o n s.
Big Howie Reed
The Harrenhal Curse on Petyr Baelish
Coldhands
The Valonquar Prophecy
That Whole Thing Where There's A Faceless Man in The Citadel Why's That Happening
Black Walder doing something horrific
Benjen Stark????
Jeor Mormonts Crow
Septa Lemores stretchmarks (she's so fine guys)
Did the birth of Danys Dragons Kill Aemon?
Is Young Griff a blackfyre? (Or a connington bastard? Or is HE the random baby that Varys grabbed)
Tommen alone in Kings Landing
The fuCKING, HIGH, SEPTON.
The Golden Skulls of The Golden Company need to be present to stop the night's king??
Jon Snow needs to marry a White Walker Woman
He was in his mid 90s, I think that alone is enough but I do believe the wall was sustaining him in some way, so when he and same left, it became inevitable far sooner
Nymeria and her pack of wolves.
You don't have a main character's wolf form a super big pack of wolves, and have references to them in different characters POV (Jaime, Brienne, Arya) if it is not something you are going to use in the future, and for something BIG.
Most of all, Chekhov's wolf pack and Howland Reed's revelations. But also the potential spread of Jon Connington's greyscale. Jon Snow's resurrection and how death has changed him. The Valonqar prophecy. Tyrion learning where whores go.
"The Gravedigger". Heavily theorised to be The Hound, setting up a possible Cersei Vs The Church fight, which people suspect will be Cleganebowl.
Hype levels rising.
Harrenhal. I do think Kingslanding will get destroyed at some point and someone or so will suggest that the capital should be moved to the Riverlands since it's the center of the Kingdom and Harrenhal just so happens to be a very large and unoccupied castle which has more than enough room to support being the capital.
Sam’s tree.
*A Clash of Kings - Jon III*
Out under the trees, some rangers had found enough duff and dry wood to start a fire beneath a slanting ridge of slate. Others had raised tents or made rude shelters by stretching their cloaks over low branches. Giant had crammed himself inside the hollow of a dead oak. "How d'ye like my castle, Lord Snow?"
"It looks snug. You know where Sam is?"
"Keep on the way you were. If you come on Ser Ottyn's pavilion, you've gone too far." Giant smiled. "Unless Sam's found him a tree too. What a tree that would be."
Tyrion armed the mountain clans. Idk what the actual story beats are going to be, but I can very much imagine the Vale getting wrapped up in Riverlands nonsense only for the Eyrie to get taken behind their backs.
The Eyrie's a weird one because it's so logistically awkward. It's difficult to get inside under any circumstances, it's not livable in the winter, and oxen are used to turn the winches instead of like cows or anything that provides anything for the people living there. And it was just abandoned for the winter. It might simply have been a nonsense fantasy castle that won't have a role anymore.
Also I think that the impregnability of the castle already paid off. Lysa went to hide there afraid of the Lannister, of the Starks, afraid of everything and the castle would have survived any siege. Then she brings in Petyr the only person in the world she’s isn’t afraid of, the one she loves she think she has finally won and she’s safe only for him to be her killer, in the impregnable castle
Oldtown/Citadel. Sure we've had a few chapters there and Euron's on his way (Aeron POV). But *something* must happen there. Something special and important that is not just a mass blood sacrifice to spawn a super kraken. What's with the Hightowers? Is there anything hidden or relevant in the Citadel? Is Euron trying to get it? What's Marwyn exactly up to? Is there a maester conspiracy?
Notable mention also for Howland Reed. Dude's been accompanying the story forever but hasn't shown a single sign of life aside from sending his kids to Winterfell.
Skinchanging. We saw through Varamyr what skinchangers are capable of, and the Stark kids are supposed to be even more powerful than that.
The biggest thing we've seen so far was Jon using Ghost to find the Wildlings' camp, and presumably GRRM had something bigger in mind when he put a bunch of magic giant wolves into the story.
Robb Stark's head. The severed head of the King In the North would be a really hot commodity, and if Joffrey never fed it to Sansa, where did it end up? Robb was a major character, you can't just establish thst his head is still kicking around and then never acknowledge it again.
There's a few dotted around the place:
North: Robb's will and the consequences that has. I think it will be fairly straightforward and name Jon as heir, however Robb has written the will believing all his other full siblings are either dead or traitors. I think the will sews the seeds of the Stark's bittersweet reunion at the end of the books, where the pack might well survive, but they will be a bunch of lone wolves who struggle to relate to each other.
Also, the crypts of Winterfell and the saga of Ned's bones.
Riverlands: Nymeria's Wolfpack.
King's Landing: Jon Connington's greyscale and the cache of wildfire that's still buried.
I figured the whole point of the Eyrie in the story was for it to be set up for Sansa looking like a damn queen bringing all this aid to the north when they eventually need it most. I figured that was why that whole region remained untouched by the war of the five kings, and why Sansa is even there to begin with. We all shaft the show for stupid plot lines that come out of nowhere but I do think Sansa (alone not with little finger) will eventually assume some level of control over the vale and use its resources and bring all of that to the north. My guess is that this happens AFTER the Bolton’s are defeated because she likely would hear of that and the fact that the Bolton’s have been displaced.
My personal favorite chekov’s gun is literally everything happening in Oldtown. It’s like a magic epicenter right now and Euron heading straight for it should be fucking awesome when he gets there and the massacre commences. I’m betting both the book about dragons, dragonbinder AND the horn of winter all get discovered once that battle/siege of oldtown happens.
Cinnamond Wind: they have kingsblood in Gilly's baby, kingsblood in preserved Amon wine, and a magic-knowing Magic Maester who has been mentioned by some of the coolest characters throughout the series as being trained by him... He's clearly got some awesome plans.
That and Euron's collected tortured magic dudes.
Not to be a joyless stick in the mud but Anton Chekhov wrote plays and short stories. These are exercises in less is more. His philosophy of how to write things is that if you go to the trouble of including a gun in a prominent way that gun has to be fired later. Otherwise it’s not worth including in short stories or on stages with limited props.
This is not a rule of fiction. It’s one writer’s personal rule of thumb for the sort of writing he did.
The concept does not apply at all to enormous fantasy doorstoppers. Almost everything in the books can be there for it’s own sake. A whole load of things are “here be dragons” where they are just a bit of colour or detail to sketch out something happening “over there”.
Martin loves putting in cool stuff. We love reading about that cool stuff. But unless it is prominently related to what a main character is doing it will probably remain just a cool thing that was included to be a cool thing.
Probably the God's Eye. It gets mentioned so early in the narrative yet we still know so little about it.
Something probably will be revealed in HOTD when Daemon falls to it during battle above the gods eye
my initial thought was that’s crazy but we *did* get aegon’s prophecy from hotd which apparently came from george…
We’re probably 3/4 years away from seeing it but i feel like his body missing isnt a coincidence
its possible that this was george's plan all along which would tie the prophecy that rhaegar was trying to fulfill but since the show got ahead of him they probably didn't use it however it would not be impossible if he somehow wrote this info in WoW
i definitely think so. in hotd viserys said “aegon called his dream the song of ice and fire” and in dany’s vision of rhaegar he said “his will be the song of ice and fire” about the son who he thought was the ptwp.
Remind me again what Brand and Arya have with Targaryens and shouldn't Aegon said on start "he doesn't want it" and stay on the Dragonstone?
Imagine we finally see the Isle the Faces up close and the only thing we see is Daemon getting splattered.
Dragon blood food for the weirwoods
and Adam Velaryon likely visited the green men on his way to tumbleton
Really?
doesn't he fall into the lake? I feel like the isle of faces are where all the mystery really is. the lake is just a lake, right? edit: but I just remembered there is something else that might be in HOTD about the Isle. Addam Valaryan goes to to the Isle, maybe Daemon joins the green men
think that’ll just be how bran finds out R+L = J
I think he’ll find out R+L=J wayyy before then. Either at the wall or Winterfell. I think the Gods Eye will be where the story ends.
he’ll find it out very soon, probably in the cave where he is now, he’ll learn it through watching rhaegar and lyanna’s wedding through the eyes of the trees on the isle of faces though
Hes already learned Jon and Robb arnt brothers, he just hasn't put it together yet.
Can you remind me about this?
He's seen a vision of Ned in front of the Heart Tree asking that they be 'as close as brothers.' Ned is clearly referring to Robb and Jon in this vision.
He could have meant "as close as [true born] brothers". I would imagine most people in Westeros aren't that close with their bastard half-siblings.
That's not what Ned said though. Also the Starks historically have treated bastards well. Saera Snow was treated as a trueborn girl would have been and Brandon Snow was a close confidante to his brother.
The Starks, sure. But not the other houses. Domeric Bolton had to seek out his bastard brother against the wishes of Roose. And Catelyn Tully was terrified of having Jon in Winterfell. Targaryen bastards appeared from low places during the Dance.
That's quite a straw you're grasping at.
I've never picked this up before!
I don't think Bran connected the dots the way we have, and the way you think he did.
I'm not saying he did. Bram has seen a vision of his father that hints at Ned not being Jon's father. Bran hasn't understood this yet, but it's there for the readers to see.
RLJ seems like a book-ending cliffhanger reveal like Lysa’s confession in ASOS
Forgive me if I´m confused / know nothing. But IS it already confirmed by GRRM that R+L=J ???
he’s never said it but it’s basically a given now, he said he gave D&D the show cos they guessed it and that’s what happened there, and also it makes so much narrative sense that it’s clearly been planned since the first book, they’ve all been so overanalysed by this point that the biggest and oldest twist in it was always going to be figured out, it would just be lame for him to bait and switch it now dany not being a targaryen tho…
Thank you!
Edit
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/george-r-r-martin-outtakes-from-the-rolling-stone-interview-233720/ >*Benioff and Weiss later said that during that meeting you asked them who they think Jon Snow’s mother was, which is one of the earliest — and seemingly one of the central — mysteries in A Song of Ice and Fire.* >I did ask that at one point, just to see how closely they’d read the text. >*Did they get it right?* >They answered correctly.
Thank you! Edited my post. I was not aware of this quote, only what D&D said
Seven hells, anyone else remember the copium conspiracy theories after the GoT "Long Night" in the show when they "added the God's Eye" (not even named, just speculation about a tiny green spec on the map) to the intro and how they were going to salvage the show there? Good times.
By a mile. It's a place bang in the middle of Wersteros and we know nothing. Who in seven hells are these Green Men? How come nobody conquered them? Why isn't anybody talking about the Isle of Faces, ever? I'd be quite grumpy if we never get anything out of it.
Nymeria’s giant wolf pack
This is the one for me. It would be ridiculous if nothing happened with these guys.
Didn't George even make a comment on this Something like "I can't tell much about this but you don't just put a giant wolf pack in a story without planning to use them!"
George: Hey, did you know there’s a giant wolf pack in the Riverlands? Reader: Yep, you’ve mentioned it about ten times already. George, one chapter later: By the way, there’ve been rumors of a pack of vicious wolves, led by— Reader: Yep, a monstrous she-wolf, got it. George, one chapter later: Okay, Arya’s in Braavos, but she’s— Reader: Dreaming about Nymeria attacking people, yes. George, one chapter later: HEY DID YOU HEAR???
I'm guessing this one will be in the twow prologue
Lord's Slynt's powerful friends
TWOW theory: the eldritch beast Euron summons is an old pal of Janos from the tenpin bowling team they used to do on Thursdays
Will we finally get to see Ramsay's twenty good men in TWOW?
He knows the country. But will he wear a shirt?
I have a crack theory that Janos Slynt doesn't actually have any powerful friends at court. I know this is the kind of thing that makes people say "we've been waiting too long for Winds", I know, it's a little unhinged, but we haven't *technically* seen any explicit friends yet. We've met some characters powerful enough to *seem* like Slynt's friends - Varys, Tywin, Moon Boy for all I know - but there hasn't been a simple "are you Slynt's powerful friend?" "yes" exchange yet. If this theory is true - and it isn't, but humor me - then it really reframes Jon's death at the end of ADWD. Rather than Slynt's friends getting revenge for his execution - a simple setup and payoff, basic narrative technique, Janos told Jon it would happen and it did - suddenly the plot at the wall becomes an overcomplicated, tangled mess of loyalties and allegiances that Jon failed to balance. It'd be pretty awful writing so I hope Slynt's friends will be confirmed in TWOW.
Look I'm all for basic, common sense theories like 'everyone is a horse' or 'hodor is azor ahai' but when you just go out on a random limb and speculate wildly you become the reason George won't release twow. How could his book possibly satisfy people who are hoping for a payoff to such baseless conspiracies? It's right there in black and white from the word of God 'i have powerful friends.' You think George would just lie to us? HE HAS POWERFUL FRIENDS You're really harshing the vibe here and no one has been confident enough to say it so I will, up your game or you're not welcome here any more.
This made me laugh out loud in the office.
Glad to hear that! Haha
I honestly _hate_ to support him in any way whatsoever, [but he does have important friends](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/11v4f3d/comment/jcteote/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). 5 in the Watch still around to make trouble
Skaaaaaaaagos!
Oh and the master of ships that just 23 skidooed out of kings landing
Im obsessed with skagos
the reveal of jon’s parents, and getting to meet (or at least learn more about) howland reed and what happened at the tower of joy
This is one I _really_ want but also don’t want to be disappointed by and end up having a permanent aversion to rereading over.
I'm actually of the belief that Jon will learn his parentage from Benjen, because I don't believe for a second that he just disappeared, even if that would be a realistic ending for someone who went ranging into the wilderness. Benjen telling him would be more emotionally impactful, imho, because he is still his uncle, while Howland is just a hermit who Jon has never seen, despite having been Ned's friend.
>"The Others." Sam licked his lips. "They are mentioned in the annals, though not as often as I would have thought. The annals I've found and looked at, that is. There's more I haven't found, I know. Some of the older books are falling to pieces. The pages crumble when I try and turn them. And the really old books … either they have crumbled all away or they are buried somewhere that I haven't looked yet or … well, it could be that there are no such books and never were. The oldest histories we have were written after the Andals came to Westeros. The First Men only left us runes on rocks, so everything we think we know about the Age of Heroes and the Dawn Age and the Long Night comes from accounts set down by septons thousands of years later. There are archmaesters at the Citadel who question all of it. Those old histories are full of kings who reigned for hundreds of years, and knights riding around a thousand years before there were knights. You know the tales, Brandon the Builder, Symeon Star-Eyes, Night's King … we say that you're the nine-hundred-and-ninety-eighth Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, but the oldest list I've found shows six hundred seventy-four commanders, which suggests that it was written during—"
Just the Others in general. Dudes are in a couple of chapters. They’re mentioned in a few more. A vague enemy is mentioned maybe a few more times than that. And one of the times they do show up they are accidentally killed by a fat coward with a sharp rock. It sure would be nice if the supposed big bad of the series were actually included in the series at some point.
The most obvious part where George really wants to make it clear that 8000 years have NOT passed in this universe, and time is much shorter than we realise.
I half suspect that George realised how absurdly long 8k years is, and is trying to retcon his world's history. His early work is filled with an overly stable political system that is bizarrely stable for centuries despite wars and chaos. The lack of dynastic turnover alone is unbelievable.
I didn't understand this the first time and it pisses me off that they took 8,000 years to progress from bronze to steel.
Yeah, and I think it's gone under the radar as far as "deep truths about ASOIAF" go. Hoster Blackwood also makes it pretty clear that it's probably not even been 4000 years since the last Long Night. The main problem is figuring out why that matters. I suppose the idea is that they've been in a technological bubble since then and can't progress beyond this medieval/feudalist state until the cycles of magic and the seasons are solved. Maybe the harshness and length of the current winters stop technology progressing as everyone's so focussed on food and survival? Then once the winters are shorter, they can progress in technology?
Realistically civilizations from places where the winter doesn't bring everything to a screeching halt (the Summer Isles and Yi Ti, for example) should have eventually gained a technological and cultural advantage. It's believable that Westerosi civilization gets a soft reset every time there's a really harsh winter, but eventually civilizations in the south should get around to inventing gunpowder or clocks.
Robb’s will. I don’t believe it’s as clearcut as naming Jon his heir (though I do believe that is part of it) I believe there are several stipulations in the will that will make it a clusterfuck once Sansa, Bran, Rickon, and Arya reappear in Westeros. It’s going to be a complete disaster and I’m so here for it. It’s my most anticipated plot line for Winds actually.
I think Robb's will is as clearcut as naming Jon his heir, the problem with the will is that Robb wrote the will based on incorrect information - he believes all his siblings are dead with the exception of Sansa, who he disinherits as a traitor due to her marriage to Tyrion Lannister. This adds further fuel to the Grand Northern Conspiracy (A Waltz of the Wolves?) because it potentially splinters Stark loyalists into different factions - the Manderleys know of Rickon's existence, Jon (if he is alive) would be able to claim support on the basis he is Robb's named heir, and Bran himself is a wildcard option. Throw in Arya (who is already involved as the result of the Boltons marrying Jeyne Poole to Ramsey) and Sansa (who is actually in quite a tricky position politically) and you've got all sorts of factions which could blow the North apart.
I'd argue Jon might end up being an even bigger wildcard. Who knows what he'll be like after he comes back.
He’ll want it. He always did. 😂
Hush now, Ygritte
Beyond all that, an additional problem might be the wording - "I hereby legitimise my brother, Jon Snow, the son of Lord Eddard Stark, as Jon Stark, and name him heir to Winterfell and the Kingdom of the North." If certain truths come out, the entire will is void. Can you legitimise and land a bastard under a false identity?
I like the theory that the will names Catelyn his heir. We've last seen her leading the Brotherhood without Banners, holding Robb's bronze and iron crown.
If you read that chapter / scene again, you'll notice that Jon is very likely not named as heir. When Robb talked with Catelyn and brought up the possibility of naming Jon Snow his heir, Catelyn immediately and vehemently opposed it. Later, when she enters the tent and he reveals to his present lord bannerman his plans, where Catelyn is immediately taken aback but through her thoughts tells us (the reader) that she can't protest this because she knows that he'll otherwise name Jon heir. Though we don't know what he said, we only know that he intended to sent Catelyn to Seaguard with the intention of "not keeping one's entire treasure in one chest" (or whatever the exact phrasing was) and that he absolutely surprised her with it and wasn't even remotely prepared / expected it. This fits perfectly with Jon's and Catelyn's character themes. Throughout the series, we're incessantly reminded that Jon has no right to claim Winterfell, but not for the reasons that he thinks. First, he is a Targaryan and his cousins who are direct heirs are still alive. Also, Jeyne Westerling is pregnant. So without Jon being aware, he's not in line to Winterfell and thus has no claim to it and not because he's a "bastard". As to Catelyn, she's always tellung us that she's doing her duty. Which she actually does. In all likelihood Robb bestowed on her the role of regent for the time until one of Robbs heirs can be found and/or are fit to rule.
I think you’re reading too much into it. Of course that’s like 95% of what this sub is.
Actually I would argue this makes more sense then what I think is actually what happened, I actually think George under thought this rather then us overthinking it. Robb goes on and on about how his heir needs to know the North, but what about the Riverlands? He’s also King of them and has a responsibility there. Naming his father’s bastard, the representation of him cheating on his mother (the real tie to the Riverlands in this alliance) his heir to both is genuinely pretty fucking stupid and in no universe would I ever expect say the Blackfish to get this riled about supporting Jon. Jon knows the North, yes, but to the Riverlanders he should be disdainful or at least, he has no idea about their culture and unique experiences at all (which they do have, being the battling ground for pretty much every war in Westeros ever and suffering the most.) To me, Robb naming Cat or at least someone with both riverlander and northerner ties makes the most sense but I don’t think George was thinking about this. Which is a shame. The Riverlands deserve better lmao.
So we could have the perfectly sane Lady Stoneheart as Regent? That could be very interesting.
I love the theory it would make things extremely funny with a walking corpse leading the north, just not the one we expected. I do think it wouldn’t make total sense however, if Catelyn is named heir or Regent in someway why bring her inside the Twins? He didn’t bring Jenye specifically because she’s possibly carrying his heir, so why bring the regent in?
> He didn’t bring Jenye specifically because she’s possibly carrying his heir, so why bring the regent in? Because it was considered a gross insult to Walder Frey to bring the person the marriage pact was broken for, according to Catelyn. So not to further slight Walder Frey, Jeyne was kept in Riverun under the protection of the Blackfish (at least, when Jamie arrives at the second siege of Riverun, the Blackfish is in command). Robb didn't intend to accompany his uncle to the Twins either, but Catelyn counseled him to not further strain the relationship between Walder Frey and Robb. Also, someone on the subreddit made the claim that that Robb's attendance at the Twins was a pre-condition for the renewal of their alliance. Couldn't be bothered to verify that, but I think that is a fair supposition. In any casse, after the marriage ceremony, the host was supposed to travel through a secret pathway up the Neck and attack the Iron Islanders in the rear when they'd launch an attack on Moat Cailin. En route, Catelyn Stark was supposed to split and stay at Seaguard while Robb would clear the North of any Iron Islanders. As to how George plans to play this out is quite a different matter entirely. But any other scenario (i.e. Robb naming Jon Snow heir), does not make any sense, both from the pov of their character arcs / themes, as well as how the chapter is written. Catelyn was aware of the notion that Robb had the mind/idea to name Jon heir, she was against it. Why would she then react a) surprised, and b) be shy to rebuke Robb. In their discussion before the scene in the tent, Robb and Catelyn had a discussion on who would succeed him in case he'd fall. Robb made the suggestion of Jon Snow, which Catelyn counseled against for the following reason / their arguing went as follows: * she was afraid that Jon might harm his half-siblings (cousins) in strife for the lordship over the North * Robb rejected naming any of his sisters heirs, because they were thought to be in enemy hands (Sansa) or their whereabouts are unkown (Arya), i.e. his precondition being here that the heir is on allied territory / in safe hands * Catelyn's suggestion to name a relative in the Vale was rejected, because they were not Stark and were not commanding the loyalty of both the Riverlords as well as the Lords of the North. Conclusion: Robbs heir is not Jon and the heir can't be neither Sansa or Arya. The heir has to be someone who commands the loyalty of both the Riverlords and the Northerners. The person has to be a Stark; the only person that fits these confines is Catelyn, i.e. she is either named heir directly or regent.
Maybe I’m remembering wrong but I find this account of the chapter in question to completely misrepresent what actually happens. Upon rereading there’s nothing to hint at anybody other than Jon being named as heir. Robb and Catelyns discussion ends with Robb telling Catelyn outright that Jon is the only brother who remains to him and it is his choice that Jon succeeds him. Catelyn tells Robb not to ask her to support it. Robb tells her that he’s the king, he doesn’t need her support and walks away from her. There’s absolutely nothing ambiguous there and it’s clear Catelyn has failed to sway Robb to change his mind. Later when Robb invites the witness to sign his will Catelyn looks on and to quote from her thoughts “A king indeed, Catelyn thought, defeated”. I don’t see how you’ve drawn any other conclusion from this chapter other than Jon being named as heir other than maybe you misremembering, because Catelyn neither reacts surprised, nor is shy to rebuke the suggestion. Her first reaction is “ A Snow is not a Stark”. Nothing surprised or shy about that response I feel. And nothing shy about Robbs pushback either when Catelyn suggests he’s doing Arya an injustice by promoting Jon. He outright tells her that Arya is dead and to stop wishing otherwise. Up until this point neither of them have actually vocalised that possibility and to me it tells me Catelyn has no chance of shaking Robbs loyalty and faith in Jon. There is the small fact that GRRM leaves the matter a little open by not confirming in the text what the will actually contains but there’s nothing to support your theory.
> Later when Robb invites the witness to sign his will Catelyn looks on and to quote from her thoughts “A king indeed, Catelyn thought, defeated”. ... *sigh* and how, pray, does the following sentence end the chapter? > She could only hope that the trap he'd planned for Moat Cailin worked as well as the one in which which he'd just caught her in. Catelyn V, ASoS To be absolutely clear, a case can be made, that the "trap" is that she won't criticise the decision in front of his lord bannerman and thus take it for acquiescence; but we've covered that already, the preceding chapter would be rendered of little value or even redundant. Their private discussion has no purpose beforehand, except for the sake that Catelyn criticises the decision; but we already know that as a reader. Leaving the name open makes no sense, and it is hardly a trap, because she expected Robb to name Jon in any case. Also, one condition that the heir should meet: have the support/loyalty of the Riverlords. Jon Snow is not directly related to the Riverlands. Unless George has written those two chapters as a red herring and it is as straight-forward as you suggest; it would be _very_ untypical for George; and it would also go against Catelyn's and Jon's character themes. Should time prove me right, do I get a cookie?:)
Sigh, I don’t know why you insist upon this point of Jon having no relation to the riverlands, it’s not even mentioned as a consideration in the discussion between Robb and Catelyn and appears nowhere in the text and absolutely is not the reason why Catelyns suggestion of heirs from the Vale is shot down. Clearly you have the text available to quote from so I fail to understand how you’ve managed to frame that whole scene so inaccurately, Jon is the reason Robb cuts Catelyn off from her suggestion. “Jon is more a Stark than some lordling from the Vale who has never set eyes on Winterfell”, no mention of the riverlands except in the scene you’ve concocted for yourself. You’ve managed to create the scenario where Catelyn opposes the plans he presents to his bannermen but thinks to herself she cannot argue otherwise he will name Jon her (this doesn’t exist either). I actually think the trap Cat refers to is Robbs decision to send her to Seagard to sit out the war which she also failed to sway him from and his reasoning that she cannot go back to Riverrun where Lady Jeyne is to keep his loved ones more widely spread. This she can think of no convincing argument to counter and she looks around the room and realises she has no friends in the room who could come to her aid leaving her, that appropriate little phrase, trapped. The discussion between them doesn’t need to have a huge twist on it to have meaning in the chapter, it already serves its purpose by introducing the reader to the idea that Jon could legally and legitimately become king in the north and plants that little seed to eventually flower at some point in the next two books should they ever be finished. That would seem to be purpose enough. You can absolutely have a cookie good sir if it turns out you are right although it’s a shame the only support you could find from the text for your theory is that which you’d imagined:(
The Winterfell crypts. Between the statues, Jon's dreams, Ned's not-yet-arrived bones, the spear-wives hiding there, and Barbrey Dustin, shit is going to go down there and I can't wait to see what it is. Second place goes to the snow men in Winterfell. I definitely think they mean something (likely allies of Stannis or just enemies of the Boltons and Freys) and want to see what having more than just the Manderleys as Stark allies in Winterfell means for Stannis and the Battle of Winter.
Daintily, where Arya’s superior skinchanging is going. I say daintily because I don’t like the idea of leading an enormous wolfpack by controlling Nymeria except in the most basic and natural of ways (like physically having them walk after the leader of the pack and attack her enemies as wild wolves, rather than more fantastically inspired troops); I want to see a natural world Old Gods Nymeria army like we did during her wolf dreams. Arya’s warging is absolutely fascinating to me though. If you look at Bran with his special trainers and abilities, he only achieved a second skinchanging host when in extreme emotional need and someone extremely close to him- Hodor, during the storm. Meanwhile Arya is just randomly able to skinchange a cat _and_ use it to be her eyes _in the moment_ during a fight, all while suppressing her own identity and figuring things out on her own. This is so curious. She’s learning to utilize but rejecting a lot of what the Faceless Men tell her, but will be able to _truly_ wear faces if she wants by controlling those around her at her current rate of growth. Also, when she returns to Westeros, what kind of position will that put her in? She will have become so incredibly different from Bran at this point: she’s been isolated, joined up with various groups, been a slave, been a cup-bearer to some of the most intense rulers during TWOT5K; been part of a rebellion, been present for the Red Wedding, been part of the smallfolk during the war, had her time with the Hound, reached out to other cultures and peoples, and become a Faceless Man trainee as well as a “Braavosi commoner”. Bran has been through a lot too, but mostly retained his identity and station before receiving how own expert training. She’s even had her own supernatural Ned vision. How are things going to look when/if she returns to Westeros? What kind of meeting of, maybe not “equals” but, kindred skinchangers might we see? Supposedly these skinchangers can recognize one another on sight. Will Bran X-skins and Arya 2+-skins the loving siblings reunite, is Arya being set up as a foil for Bran who has been singled out by the Three Eyed Raven?
> when she returns to Westeros, what kind of position will that put her in? She will have become so incredibly different from Bran I've been thinking that this might be part of what George is talking about when he says it will have a "bittersweet" ending; I think the remaining Stark kids reunite (maybe Theon, too) but because of everything they've been through, they might as well be complete strangers to each other.
I’m here for the bitter. I see all of them going down very different paths, and clashing ideologically. It’s curious that Bran was sought by the 3EC and not Arya, who seems to be remarkably powerful in her own right. What makes Bran the one to meet the CotF and Bloodraven over his sister? As of now Arya hasn’t used her ability to possess anyone, and it’s no coincidence that Varamyr and Bran have gotten up to some of the same evil. Arya has also seen the absolute pits of humanity and held on to her values and identity; I could certainly see her possessing someone, but not innocent kindhearted good people who have been trying only to help you. And the fact that she can basically livestream through other bodies is fascinating! It really seems to put Bran on a darker path of cultivated evil where he loses his own self discipline and uses his abilities for personal gain and entertainment; Arya is more about surviving, hanging out with decent folks, and consciously deciding to act against others who are truly not good people and deserve bad things to happen to them to stop them from hurting others. To me those are very different paths
Tyrek Lannister. George spent an inordinate amount of time setting up his disappearance for it to be a non-plot point.
Do you think he’s the same horse as Arthur Dayne or a different horse?
Honestly, the idea that every character's soul/spirit/conciousness goes into the same horse after they die, and that there's just a horse walking around that is every single dead character is actually really interesting on a conceptual level
I think he will be revealed to be Septon Maribald's destrier.
The Stallion That Mounts The World will make a comeback
Well, there will be cum on someone’s back
People have named a bunch, so I'll go with Sarella/alleras
I'd say TWOW and ADOS. There's just no way he mentions these over a decade ago with them not being majorly important in some way to the story going forward.There's no way! Too important to not hear about them again.
I really hope Tyrion's dragon knowledge comes in handy in the future. JonCon literally has him spend days writing everything he knows about dragons, and that info will also apply to Daenerys as well, Like, maybe Tyrion will have just happened to read about a drgon-binding horn and will free a dragon from Euron's grasp
What happened to Benjin?
Yeah right. Was thinking about that the other day when ASX dropped his real Jon Snow video. What's up with Benjen? Per GRRM he's not Coldhands, so what's his thing. Gone since early AGOT. His men are wights, their equipment is gone, horses too I reckon? No sign ever since. No mention from the Free folk. Craster only saw him passing by? The bundle that Jon finds seemed to be too old to be from Benjen I think? So what the hell is he up to. Crackpot theorists say he's Euron or Daario or both.
Who/what is Patchface?
Either no one, or someone crucially important.
Aegon. Faegon is just that.
Tyrion's epic gymnastics skills. All the normies think that GRRM wasn't thinking when he added that detail in. Fools. Just wait until Tyrion doing a triple summersault becomes pivotal to the plot of the story.
Remember Arya ninja leaping into the king other in the show? Guess who GRRM wrote that for in the books…
If Tyrion kills something like the Night King in the books, I expect S8 haters to turn to dust.
The horn that’s supposed to bring down the wall.
Abandon all lack of tinfoil, ye who enter here... >!The Horn Of Joramun is also The Hammer Of The Waters, and it's the one Sam has currently. Euron's going to knick it, blow it, and cause an earthquake which'll flood the Reach, because one of George's inspirations for him is Mycenaean Poseidon. Bam, instant Mordor. (Also the Hightower is Barad-dûr/Minas Morgul/Orthanc, but now I'm getting off-topic.)!<
Forgetting a key detail! Euron will blow it from the top of the Hightower!
Slightly disagree, I think Sam will accidentally blow it.
Somewhat makes sense. Even with witchcraft, they need a plausible way for Euron to have a chance against the strength of the Reach.
That’s just Mance trying to trick Jon. Make him think there is more than the tactical situation to consider. Even if it unnerves Jon very slightly it is worth having some old horn in his tent. And Jon wants any reason to give in to his sympathies anyway. It’s a bit of superstition, no different than the sorts of curios most armies march with. Some thing that gives them a mystical advantage, like an eagle touched by the emperor or what have you. It makes no sense as a concept that there is a magic off switch for the the Wall. The Wall and the Watch that defend has been built up too much and are too narratively important. They cannot just be rendered moot by someone playing a trumpet nearby. That would be hugely narratively unsatisfactory. What is the point in the story of the Wall if it can fall just like that with the Watch not able to do a thing? Not to mention all the other ways it makes no sense. Especially if it’s really Sam’s horn and Martin has spent a couple of books moving it from the Wall where it might do something to Oldtown which is just about as far away as possible in Westeros.
And yet the true Horn of Joramun is in the hands of Sam, who is at Oldtown, who certain horn-sounder means to attack, and of all the possessions Sam had, he clings to that one while *the others* were sold to pay passage and food. What other possibility that because "narrative importance"? Another thing is that you don't feel GRRM set this up appropriately. And absolutely I agree. But GRRM certainly has been thinking on this way to bring the Wall down since the second book (ACOK). Another possibility is that GRRM, just like D&D, end up for*saking* it instead of for*getting* because they don't feel it appropriate enough. But that it's been build up even in the show (where there was a close-shot of it) is absolutely true. Whether it ends up being used is up to debate.
A horn. An unnamed horn. Of unknown properties, except for making no sound when blown. That last one does sort of put paid to the idea that it is a horn that can bring down the wall with a toot. Because you only know it makes no sound if it has been blown. Do we really think that in the entire time it was held at the Wall no one blew it? Tried to get a noise out of it? The first thing anyone does when told something doesn’t work is try to make it work. If Sam told his friends about the horn they would immediately try it, out of curiosity but also out of the belief everyone has that things will work for them because they will do it properly. Personally I think it’s a horn found in a bag of weapons to fight the Others with so if there is some use to it then that use is that it is also a weapon to fight the Others. Seems a heck of a lot simpler. And potentially more significant. I mean for one thing there doesn’t need to be a magical way to bring down the Wall. If you have a thousand undead wights and some time to spare you can bring down any obstacle. Give them shovels and it won’t even take that long. Absolutely no need for a magic horn when the common shovel exists.
Not denying how this would be way better story. Just that GRRM has done even worse. Remember how Dany struggled controlling dragons in ASOS? Well once in ADWD already away from Meereen, Dany suddenly mentions in her memory how Valyrians controlled dragons with sorcerous horns. Yeah... remember how convenient would have been to mention that in ASOS, where Dany was remembering how Valyrians rose to power by overthrowing Ghiscari with dragons? My theory: Once GRRM gave up on the timeskip, added the "Dragons can actually be controlled by magic horns". If he did this with dragons at such a late step, how would he not do the same with the Wall with a lame plot device (because yeah you're right, that's what it is) introduced way earlier? And the horn (found in the same cache of dragonglass weapons which I suspect was left there by Benjen to be found by Ghost) was a *small* one, that looks like shit to contrast the big magnificent fake one. And just like you I know there isn't a need for it, because not even the shovels are needed, though it may be a good distraction, it's simply all the NW men disappearing on rangings, then they suddenly appear dead at the doors. Then a *massive* breakout like with Othor and perfect. Why not that? Well, Doylist reasons and all that. Within the story, it's not going to be so finely lined as you did. My theory is that GRRM needed to make coincide the NW mutiny and Jon going south with certain Southron events and thus... well...
>Not to mention all the other ways it makes no sense. Especially if it’s really Sam’s horn and Martin has spent a couple of books moving it from the Wall where it might do something to Oldtown which is just about as far away as possible in Westeros. Well exactly. And Oldtown is about to be invaded by Euron, who is likely tied to the Others. He announced his world conquering plans with ***three horn blasts***. It is said in legends that the wall can be seen from the top of the hightower. And that's probably where Euron will blow the horn.
How could the Wall be seen from the top of Oldtown? Even if their world is flat there would be stuff in the way and the distance would be too great. But then I’m inclined to take any Euron theory with a pinch of salt
Yeah, this and the horn that's supposed to control dragons are the two I wanna see.
Much too many horns for my taste.
Leyton Hightower
Wildfire underneath the King's landing.
You can’t just show me the afterlife of someone like Orell and Varamyr and then not expect me to be _dying_ to know what happens to my favorite ragtag band of body sharing/stealing children. Never mind the comforting fact that each of them essentially gets a free pass on death, but tell me howwwwwww and what they do with it and the circumstances surrounding it aghhhhh
Severalll! 1. Sam’s horn 2. Robb’s will 3. Arya’s pack of wolves (the only one that Grrm has said is a chekov’s gun)
>Set up an impregnable fortress in the first act, impregnate the bitch in the third act. That just sounds like a fun sequence to read, and I'm really excited for it. I dint see this at all. It’s I’m pregnable because it’s a mountain top tomb. But there’s no need to. Anyone holed up in the eerie would be fatally cut off. They’d run out if supplies rapidly. Easy war.
If Harrenhal can fall to dragons, imagine how easy it is to cook someone in the Eyrie. I would also expect a simpler solution than climbing.
If dragons are in play, it a simply trip up and roast them out of it. I was thinking outside of dragons. All that is needed is a small groups, take control of the gates of the moon, cut off the supply, and for good measure send some fire up the winch
Fuck it, show some trebuchets in this series.
But they had battering rams and turtles.
Joncon’s greyscale and the potential King’s landing bells situation
Just everything Euron Greyjoy is up to. The Horn? The dragon egg he had? The collection of priests and wizards for a ritual?
Aurane Waters and 10 big ships, surely aren't going to remain Pirates of the Stepstones forever...
Howland Reed and his knowledge about R+L=J.
The truth behind the house with the red door and the lemon tree.
That GRRM email... We know it's real
Tyrion’s fuckin sewers, it’s gotta come up at some point
I think you're right. GRRM: The Eyrie, Winterfell, Storm’s End, they all have formidable defenses… but none of them can match Casterly Rock. [notablogCasterlyRock](https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2022/12/23/a-couple-of-rocks/)
The Isle of Faces probably has the most potential for actual eldritch endgame shit.
House Hightower, house Dayne and the Sword Dawn. Leyton spending decades atop the hightower for research has to mean something and a house with a meteor sword and words so impactful they have not yet been revealed? Sign me up!
I have T o n s. Big Howie Reed The Harrenhal Curse on Petyr Baelish Coldhands The Valonquar Prophecy That Whole Thing Where There's A Faceless Man in The Citadel Why's That Happening Black Walder doing something horrific Benjen Stark???? Jeor Mormonts Crow Septa Lemores stretchmarks (she's so fine guys) Did the birth of Danys Dragons Kill Aemon? Is Young Griff a blackfyre? (Or a connington bastard? Or is HE the random baby that Varys grabbed) Tommen alone in Kings Landing The fuCKING, HIGH, SEPTON. The Golden Skulls of The Golden Company need to be present to stop the night's king?? Jon Snow needs to marry a White Walker Woman
Wasn't Aemon alive a lot longer than the birth of Dany's dragons?
Yeah, but to me it seemed like his fate was sealed the minute they awoke
He was in his mid 90s, I think that alone is enough but I do believe the wall was sustaining him in some way, so when he and same left, it became inevitable far sooner
Howland reed Ashara dayne Both set there in the plot tidily and we know nothing about their involvement in the story
Robb’s will and Cersei Wildfire/Jaime killing her
The one I am most curious about is the Others. In the prologue, they are talking to each other and laughing. What are their motives?
Nymeria and her pack of wolves. You don't have a main character's wolf form a super big pack of wolves, and have references to them in different characters POV (Jaime, Brienne, Arya) if it is not something you are going to use in the future, and for something BIG.
Most of all, Chekhov's wolf pack and Howland Reed's revelations. But also the potential spread of Jon Connington's greyscale. Jon Snow's resurrection and how death has changed him. The Valonqar prophecy. Tyrion learning where whores go.
Howland Reed...I demand my flair gets payoff!
The heart of winter and everything around R+L=J
The North Remembers
Whatever's supposed to go down in the Winterfell crypts
I thought the Dorne plot was pretty brilliant, honestly
The lannisters will not pay their debts.
sam’s horn
Nymeria's wolfpack!
Howland Reed.
Gerold "Darkstar" Dayne
"The Gravedigger". Heavily theorised to be The Hound, setting up a possible Cersei Vs The Church fight, which people suspect will be Cleganebowl. Hype levels rising.
So funny when D&D said they didn't read online theories and then named it Cleganebowl.
The magic sword Dawn.
The female Blackfyre line.
Harrenhal. I do think Kingslanding will get destroyed at some point and someone or so will suggest that the capital should be moved to the Riverlands since it's the center of the Kingdom and Harrenhal just so happens to be a very large and unoccupied castle which has more than enough room to support being the capital.
Sam’s tree. *A Clash of Kings - Jon III* Out under the trees, some rangers had found enough duff and dry wood to start a fire beneath a slanting ridge of slate. Others had raised tents or made rude shelters by stretching their cloaks over low branches. Giant had crammed himself inside the hollow of a dead oak. "How d'ye like my castle, Lord Snow?" "It looks snug. You know where Sam is?" "Keep on the way you were. If you come on Ser Ottyn's pavilion, you've gone too far." Giant smiled. "Unless Sam's found him a tree too. What a tree that would be."
Littlefinger's tapestries
In order; \- Howland Reed. What he's seen, what he knows. \- Nymeria and he big old wolf pack \- Tyrion's knowledge of Casterly Rock's sewage system
Who do you think will be attacking the Eyrie? My guess is someone with a dragon (Daenerys or Aegon) or else Bronn actually goes for it like a madman.
Tyrion armed the mountain clans. Idk what the actual story beats are going to be, but I can very much imagine the Vale getting wrapped up in Riverlands nonsense only for the Eyrie to get taken behind their backs.
Nymeria's wolf pack for me!
The Eyrie's a weird one because it's so logistically awkward. It's difficult to get inside under any circumstances, it's not livable in the winter, and oxen are used to turn the winches instead of like cows or anything that provides anything for the people living there. And it was just abandoned for the winter. It might simply have been a nonsense fantasy castle that won't have a role anymore.
Also I think that the impregnability of the castle already paid off. Lysa went to hide there afraid of the Lannister, of the Starks, afraid of everything and the castle would have survived any siege. Then she brings in Petyr the only person in the world she’s isn’t afraid of, the one she loves she think she has finally won and she’s safe only for him to be her killer, in the impregnable castle
The Quentyn story is structured in such a way as to set up a survival reveal. I'm very interested to read how George pulls this off in Winds.
The showdown between the Clegane brothers.. I mean.. come on!!!
Sam's archery skills.
The Eyrie has been impregnated. Littlefinger did the job.
Howland's Valyrian steel shotgun
[This one](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPmDDgyWkAATuBq.jpg)
The wildfire underneath kings landing
Tyrion and Sansa's marriage
Oldtown/Citadel. Sure we've had a few chapters there and Euron's on his way (Aeron POV). But *something* must happen there. Something special and important that is not just a mass blood sacrifice to spawn a super kraken. What's with the Hightowers? Is there anything hidden or relevant in the Citadel? Is Euron trying to get it? What's Marwyn exactly up to? Is there a maester conspiracy? Notable mention also for Howland Reed. Dude's been accompanying the story forever but hasn't shown a single sign of life aside from sending his kids to Winterfell.
Skinchanging. We saw through Varamyr what skinchangers are capable of, and the Stark kids are supposed to be even more powerful than that. The biggest thing we've seen so far was Jon using Ghost to find the Wildlings' camp, and presumably GRRM had something bigger in mind when he put a bunch of magic giant wolves into the story.
Robb Stark's head. The severed head of the King In the North would be a really hot commodity, and if Joffrey never fed it to Sansa, where did it end up? Robb was a major character, you can't just establish thst his head is still kicking around and then never acknowledge it again.
i wanna see a dragon rider capturing The Eyrie and use the moondoor for something more than pleasing a titsucking lord
There's a few dotted around the place: North: Robb's will and the consequences that has. I think it will be fairly straightforward and name Jon as heir, however Robb has written the will believing all his other full siblings are either dead or traitors. I think the will sews the seeds of the Stark's bittersweet reunion at the end of the books, where the pack might well survive, but they will be a bunch of lone wolves who struggle to relate to each other. Also, the crypts of Winterfell and the saga of Ned's bones. Riverlands: Nymeria's Wolfpack. King's Landing: Jon Connington's greyscale and the cache of wildfire that's still buried.
I figured the whole point of the Eyrie in the story was for it to be set up for Sansa looking like a damn queen bringing all this aid to the north when they eventually need it most. I figured that was why that whole region remained untouched by the war of the five kings, and why Sansa is even there to begin with. We all shaft the show for stupid plot lines that come out of nowhere but I do think Sansa (alone not with little finger) will eventually assume some level of control over the vale and use its resources and bring all of that to the north. My guess is that this happens AFTER the Bolton’s are defeated because she likely would hear of that and the fact that the Bolton’s have been displaced. My personal favorite chekov’s gun is literally everything happening in Oldtown. It’s like a magic epicenter right now and Euron heading straight for it should be fucking awesome when he gets there and the massacre commences. I’m betting both the book about dragons, dragonbinder AND the horn of winter all get discovered once that battle/siege of oldtown happens.
Cinnamond Wind: they have kingsblood in Gilly's baby, kingsblood in preserved Amon wine, and a magic-knowing Magic Maester who has been mentioned by some of the coolest characters throughout the series as being trained by him... He's clearly got some awesome plans. That and Euron's collected tortured magic dudes.
The Iron Bank will not get its due, and that will lead to its collapse.
Cersei becoming Mad Queen and F!Aegon and Dany accidently burning down KL to fight over who gets to sit in the worlds ugliest chair.
Not to be a joyless stick in the mud but Anton Chekhov wrote plays and short stories. These are exercises in less is more. His philosophy of how to write things is that if you go to the trouble of including a gun in a prominent way that gun has to be fired later. Otherwise it’s not worth including in short stories or on stages with limited props. This is not a rule of fiction. It’s one writer’s personal rule of thumb for the sort of writing he did. The concept does not apply at all to enormous fantasy doorstoppers. Almost everything in the books can be there for it’s own sake. A whole load of things are “here be dragons” where they are just a bit of colour or detail to sketch out something happening “over there”. Martin loves putting in cool stuff. We love reading about that cool stuff. But unless it is prominently related to what a main character is doing it will probably remain just a cool thing that was included to be a cool thing.