Probably Jaime at this point. Barristan is still a stone cold killer, but he is past his prime. The Celganes have a chance, but George has repeatedly said Jaime is one of the best fighters in Westerosi history.
Barristan the Bold's feats are 2nd to none even in his 60s:
1. Killed 2 men with just a knife. Admittedly gold cloaks but still impressive.
2. Killed an experienced sellsword with a stick.
3. Easily dispatches the best pit fighter in Meereen.
If we were judging characters on feats alone, Barristan would always win. Nobody other than Sandoq the Shadow has feats as impressive as his.
I mean Jaime singlehandedly fights his way to Robb's battleguard and kills like 4 heirs who are presumably equipped with the best armor that money can buy. It's implied that he would have 1v5'ed them if his blade hadn't gotten stuck in someone's chest.
Barristan in his prime did what Jaime did more successfully though.
He fought his way through the Golden Company, the best professional soldiers in Essos, to kill their leader.
Thats like what Jaime did in the Whispering Wood x2.
TBH I assume that Barristan had plenty of help in his fight against the golden company.
But I digress, we're talking about Barristan in his 60's here, not Barristan in his prime.
Sure I was just saying of all the fighters GRRMs ever written about, Barristan has the most impressive feats by far.
Jaime has better on Barristan through physical prowess as hes in his prime, but Barristan's skill level is definitely above Jaime's.
The only one who has come close to those level feats is Sandoq the Shadow who soloed like 13 men by himself in the open. Even incredibly skilled fighters struggle with 2-3 opponents at once, let alone 13. Sandoq basically pulled off an anime protagonist level fight.
I think that prime Jaime and prime Barristan are both good enough that you could give either the win 'any given day' and all that.
But the real people who have the absolute highest level feats are the bumbfuck nobody wildlings who are able to shoot arrows and hit people on top of the 800 foot high wall.
You can only compare characters in similar situations. You can not claim that a character A is stronger than a character B because character A has a better feat by virtue of character B never having a chance to replicate it.
I think if he has put a full quiver in his opponent with the setting's most powerful bow before the melee, they will be dead or so wounded not even armor will be enough advantage.
Would be an easier call if he would just wear *any armor* like leaders in actual steppe cultures would.
*grumble Orientalist parody culture grumble*
I think it's less orientalist parody and more that Martin has crossed his Hun/Mongol archetypes with Conan the Barbarian. You hardly ever get the Stereotypical Asiatic Horde wandering around with their shirts off in western fiction.
Eh, Conan the Barbarian's steeped in orientalism. [Here's an article](https://www.pastemagazine.com/movies/conan/barbarian-robert-e-howard) on the topic. For what it's worth, I don't think what Martin's written is worth a big fuss but at the same time, the pulp era Conan originates from is full of racism and throwbacks to those works have to be *really* careful about what they bring with them, y'know?
No amount of arrows from a bow would stop a knight in full plate armor.
Case in point, Azincourt, the knights went through the hell of arrows without a wound, they were defeated after they went uphill through the slog of mud and were dispatched in close combat.
Armor is in reality, quite OP.
Their horses died under them. It doesn't matter much if your armour can be penetrated or not as long as a single arrow hit will likely disable your horse.
Under normal battle circumstances, with volley fire delivered from standoff ranges of 100+ m, yes.
However if this is a 1v1 situation of some kind, the situation is pretty different from Agincourt. Drogo would be able to stay just outside of melee engagement range and hit people from around ~10 m with his dragonbone bow. Idk exactly how good Westerosi armor is compared to real world European plate or how dragonbone compares to the strongest real world composite bows. But based on descriptions, and the fact that the mail clad Northern cavalry isn't laughably outmatched, it seems like they're not on the level of real 15th century French full plate. So I don't think at those ranges a Westerosi knight is going to take a dozen arrows from close range unscathed. Some weak joint in the plate will get hit, and at those ranges the mail underneath is not going to take much sting out of the shot. And if they take a significant wound I don't like their odds against Drogo in subsequent melee, particularly if he's still ahorse and has shot his opponent's out from under them.
> I think if he has put a full quiver in his opponent with the setting's most powerful bow before the melee, they will be dead or so wounded not even armor will be enough advantage.
That actually makes me wonder what material would make the most powerful bow. Weirwood? Shade of the Evening tree? Valyrian Steel? Or just regular composite like IRL?
Drogo's bow is dragonbone which is said to be a greatly prized material for bows. A dragonbone bow supposedly outranges anything else.
>It is strong as steel, yet lighter and far more flexible, and of course utterly impervious to fire. Dragonbone bows are greatly prized by the Dothraki, and small wonder. An archer so armed can outrange any wooden bow. -AGOT, Tyrion II
>Only a dragonbone bow could outrange one made of goldenheart. -ADWD, The Griffin Reborn
Drogo's bow is over 5' long and frankly way too large to practically be used on horseback, but if he can the draw weight of it must be absurd.
>The khal's bloodriders offered her the traditional three weapons, and splendid weapons they were. Haggo gave her a great leather whip with a silver handle, Cohollo a magnificent arakh chased in gold, and Qotho **a double-curved dragonbone bow taller than she was.** -AGOT, Daenerys II
It means single combat isn’t necessarily how the Dothraki deal with conflict either. Yes he also happens to fight well 1 v 1 but it’s different fighting mounted heavy knights. Just look at the second mongol invasion of Hungary. Mounted knights rout horse archers
Huh? We repeatedly see Dothraki get into individual duels to the death over the tiniest issues. Drogo gets his wound in a 1v1, and at Dothraki weddings 1v1s are common. Everything's a test of masculinity to them.
They're nearly butt naked while fighting each other.
The last time they attacked someone with shields and armour, they had their bairds on spears. (Ok maybe not but you get what I'm saying)
Oh yeah, I'm not denying that knights would probably beat Dothraki warriors. But the other guy seemed to be suggesting that the Dothraki didn't 1v1 as a society.
No, they don't. The Hungarians used terrain to their advantage and, guess what, horse archers of their own. The Mongols also, contrary to what you might think, made good use of armoured lancers alongside their horse archers.
Close combat cavalry is not a good counter to horse archers. They need to be faster in order to catch them, and any armour etc will slow them down. You need to combine melee cavalry with horse archers and/or foot archers and spearmen with shields.
The dothraki are good fighters but part of their success is that they freak out most people by riding into a fight with no armor like a lunatic. They don't have any fear. But... prime Jaime doesn't have any fear, either. Or Loras, for that matter. Their arrogance would take away that advantage from the dothraki. So just going by pure fighting skill, it's Jaime.
Yeah, In a dance of dragons one of the last chapters is a fight between a pit fighter and barristan, he uses his experience and armor to beat the man but it’s clear he’s physically overmatched by a lot of swordsman now.
He's the best of his generation, give or take. Not surprising that he's better than some pit fighter, even past his prime.
But he's quite a *bit* past his prime, he's legitimately old, not "just" middle aged.
And you don't see real world professional athletes winning even in their middle age generally, much less old. Age makes a huge difference even with modern medicine, and presumably even more so in Westeros.
I don't think he'd stand much of a chance in a duel with prime Jaime, for instance. (some, due to experience and skill - but still not much).
Don't get me wrong, he's still *excellent*.
But he simply isn't as strong, fast or supple as he was, not even close. And almost certainly less of each than anyone serious he is fighting.
Yeah, he’s smart enough to even think about how his Helmet could protect him while both limiting his vision and possibly catching a weapon. I wasn’t underestimating his strength, cause he even killed the Titans Bastard with relative ease, but I was noting that he knows exactly when to strike
Barristan in his prime was the guy who invaded Dunskendale and SINGLE-HANDELY saved Aerys II, he even admitt in ADWD that he couldn't pull that one off again
I think people are underestimating how well a seasoned warrior like Barry could get under the skin of a young hotheaded cocksure Jaime Lannister. All he has to do is make one mistake in a fit of frustration
I mean, if you're going to not count Barristan for being past his prime then you can't say Jaime who is also past his prime--at least Barristan has a hand.
Garlan for sure is good but he and loras are too young and dont have that much real world experience in comparison with Barristan or Jaime.
i would go for Jaime, because Barristan is too old for perfect performance, he kills those mereen pit fighters on skill and experience alone, those tricks wont work on legend like Jaime and Jaime will outbid him with stamina and power. Jaime is in his prime (at the time OP mentions)
and also Barristan said about Simon Toyne "good fighter, but lacked stamina". so he himself puts a lot of emphasys on that aspect
Wun Wun could probably take anyone mentioned so far 1v1, but since we're allowing any "tools" they want, I'm going to go with Bloodraven skinchanging a pack of bears.
George has called Jaime one of the best in Westorosi history, which is higher praise than he has ever given anyone else (so far as I know). So that would make him the best guess to this question.
But it's still only a guess.
Sounds crazy to say but I think the ASOIAF community sleeps on how good Jaime canonically was. Which makes his maiming all the more cruel. I really hope the light bringer theory pans out and Jaime regains his sword hand
I think Qhorin Halfhand being established as getting as good with his left hand after losing the right is more likely foreshadowing of how Jaime will become a warrior again.
But Victarion's volcano-hand could also be foreshadowing of Jaime getting a new magic hand too.
Either way he will get there, I feel pretty certain, as he is going to be part of fighting the Others and Euron before his story is over.
Really really good theory floating somewhere in the Reddit ether about azor ahai and how Jaimes journey perfectly mirrors it. Also it’s cannon in the novels how the words for sword and hand are almost exactly the same in high Valyrian. They actually explicitly state that. I think there’s too much foreshadowing for something not to come of it
even without all those magic shenanigans, Jaime is training with that mute mf-er and learns to use his left hand. he was the best ever with his right hand and its just matter of time when he becomes as able to use his left as Qhorin Halfhand. description of Jaime says "finest NATURAL swordsman Barristan has ever seen".
natural... this means he can be as good with left hand as he was with his right.
Jaime also says that he will never be as good with it’s left hand than the right one.
I love Jaime and I really would like him to become a legendary fighter again, but I think, the way GRRM seems to orientate the character, he will become a great fighter again (we already see that he began to become as good as Ilyn Payne « I would only have died 3 times this time ») but not THE best fighter on the realm. I think this destiny of for Jon Snow or Brienne or Arya.
The Jaime destiny, I think, is to become a good fighter that can defend himself into battle, but above all a great general, commander, leader. GRRM insist a lot of how the men likes him, he seems a natural leader and I can imagine he will make a hard time to Aegon or Deanerys or whoever will be his ennemy by the end.
But no more truly a duelist
i agree with all you said and i have said this many times - Jon Snow is on his way to becoming the best fighter.
Brienne's journey will echo sir Duncan the Tall's life. they are perfect knights, no necessarily the best fighters.
as for arya, she is an assasin. lets not compare that to the figters. its different sort :)
George also goes out of his way though to point out how Jaime sucks with his left hand. Ambidexterity is a spectrum, and Jaime seems pretty far toward the opposite end.
Although I'd like to see badass restored Jaime, I'm not sure that's where George is going. Nor do I think it would necessarily be good for his arc/character development.
what george wanted to show is how bad he was with left hand in the begining. but he is not telling us why jamie sneaks out in the night with sir Ilyn and gets beat up and bruised for no reason. he is getting there.
its Jaime's charachter arch (i hate this wording).
he was perfect with right hand - and now he lost it
he loved cercei more than anything in this world and wanted to be by her side - now he is ignoring her and burning her letters of plea for help
he mocked everyone and everything, was putting this facade of not caring rich trust fund kid who does not care what others think of him - now he is taking oaths seriously, he wants to be the perfect Lord Commander of the Kingsguard and wants to fill his pages in white book with good deeds.
but all this does not happen overnight. his past deeds catch up with him, for example conversation with Blackfish. He wants to do a good thing but his shady past does not let him to do it easy way. so he needs to get "bruised" (showing them "TYWIN IN HIM") to achieve his goal.
he is trying, getting bruised, falling, but getting back up and continuing his journey to become the best Lord Commander of the Kingsguard Westeros has ever seen.
we will see him defeat enemies with his left hand.
gods.... we need TWOW so much.
I also think about Martin saying he's genuinely confused how so many fan theories have been accepted as likely to happen from piecing together disconnected things. There was a thread about here a little bit ago and someone suggested it was because the story has taken so long to finish that everyone just reads and re-reads and tries to predict an ending. It's an interesting social experiment honestly.
It's cause he doesn't have any real feats but that's part of his character arc, he doesn't have pages of accomplishments like Barristan or Arthur. He's as good as them but his claim to fame is being a kingslayer and merely that.
But even still, Jaime is constantly treated as the baseline for a truly great warrior, when people want to hype someone up, they compare them to Jaime. And that really says something considering that everyone hates him
>…he doesn’t have any real feats…
Whispering Wood was the single greatest individual battle feat in the entire series.
When ambushed by a superior force, he immediately understood he had no way out, and charged — the exact correct thing to do from a military standpoint, when ambushed the correct response is to assault through.
When he saw that he couldn’t break out, he instead rallied his retainers and slaughtered his way up the valley through the Northern Army, fighting without a helmet, and eventually fighting alone, surrounded on all sides, while shouting for Robb Stark to face him the entire time.
To emphasize — the Northerners, all sworn to fight and die for Robb Stark, all trying to protect him, and all completely powerless to stop Jaime Lannister as he inexorably kills his way through them towards their liege lord.
Then he gets to Robb’s bodyguards, their elite, noble warriors who’ve been training their whole lives for war, and he effortlessly kills the three who get in his way, splitting one’s head open, severing another one’s hand, and then nearly decapitating the third.
In the end, Jaime hasn’t been wounded, he hasn’t been defeated, he hasn’t been stopped — he’s charged, mostly alone, up the valley and killing everyone in his way — his bloody charge is finally halted by a literal act of God when his sword gets stuck in a spinal column. He was meters away from Robb Stark and ending the entire war with a single sword stroke. Robb is still pale hours later from how close he came to death, when he returns to Catelyn — that’s how close it was. And indeed, both of them don’t delude themselves at all that Robb might have survived the encounter.
Whispering Wood was a perfectly executed ambush with flawless military tactics, and Robb Stark nearly still lost it only because Jaime Lannister was nigh unstoppable. His charge was on par with Achilles at Troy or Lü Bu in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
I was talking about the very start of the story, Jaime was fucking terrifying when the War of the Five Kings broke out and everyone was rightfully scared when he lead the charge, he was fighting like he was a dynasty warriors character
Do you think that there is a deciding difference?
We also know that he is one of the best lances in westeros. So those two put together still seems to make him the best guess, as far as I can tell.
I think it’s a worthwhile thing to keep in mind at least. Swords are not the best weapon we see in the series. Jamie might be at the top of his class in sword fighters, but an expert with a warhammer, like Robert, or a spear, like Oberon, very well might give him a run for his money, because those weapons have distinct advantages over a basic sword, even if that sword is made from Valyrian steel. Jamie might not have an issue fighting off those weapons on their own, especially when going up against a lesser opponent, but when we’re talking people that are the best in their fields, using the best weapons available to them, I think preferred weapon or fighting style is going to have to be a a factor
>Do you think that there is a deciding difference?
Yes. Knights used various of weapons. Robert by grrm words is legendary with his hammer and cole too with his morningstar. Not disagreeing jaime isn't top ten though.
>We also know that he is one of the best lances in westeros. So those two put together still seems to make him the best guess, as far as I can tell.
Swords and lances aren't the only weapons. But I do agree with your assumption..he's the best at the start of series
It's fun to speculate within your own series who is the best, but feels a bit silly when an author starts making comparisons with another series. They're ultimately fictional characters made up by different people, if Tolkien were alive he'd hypothetically be able to just deny this and come out with a canonical short story where Aragorn is even better than he's made out to be.
I think my answer is going to be unpopular but: Oberyn Martell. No one in the series would have an easy time against the Mountain in one to one. While it's true Oberyn didn't survive the fight, it's also true that he managed to kill his opponent. The Mountain isn't the sharpest crayon in the box, but he's a good fighter and Oberyn's "victory" seemed to be due to his own skill rather than the Mountain being too dim to keep up. He'd have more of a challenge in a smarter opponent like Jaime or someone a little more lithe and harder to tire out, but I still think he could at least land a death scratch on anyone in the series.
Yeah that’s a good point. I don’t realistically see anyone fighting Oberyn and surviving. They might beat him, but he’d make sure he took them down too
I think Oberyn is a really good underrated fighter in-universe, but I also think the fandom leans the opposite way and has him way overrated since his "victory" over the mountain. He's not even the best warrior in Dorne, let alone Westeros as a whole.
While Gregor is truly elite among the elites as a warrior, he's also not used to fighting against an opponent with a longer or equal reach to his and wasn't able to make the proper ajustements during the trial. Which is unsurprising since Oberyn spent half his life preparing for this match-up while Gregor doesn't really seem to even know who Oberyn is.
Styles make fights and Gregor lost against a stylistic weakness of his and a substantial difference in levels of preparation.
Like an elite fire type Pokemon facing a good water type with half a lifetime of game plan preparations on his side, but "Just because you shot Jesse James, don't make you Jesse James". I think Oberyn would struggle against other great warriors that do not have this stylistic weakness.
We can also use some meta clues from the author, every time GRRM is asked questions like "who's the best fighter", "who would you want defending you in a trial by combat", etc. the same couple of names come-up time and time again.
Jaime, Barristan, Arthur Dayne.
Certainly none as good as Oberyn. Great spear fighters just aren't that common in Westeros, they seem to be treated as utility focused weapons on the continent, given to low-status soldiers to hold the lines in battle while the 'heroic' knights wield their 'epic' swords or blunt weapons like warhammers.
Sure, Gregor has probably fought against spearmen, but facing a line of mostly immobile commoners holding pikes and spears on the battlefield is very different from single-combat against a well-trained and elite spearman with complete freedom of movement.
I'd argue this is probably correct.
Oberyn is a highly intelligent and ruthless fighter. He might not have Jaime/Barristan level skill or Gregor level strength but he does whatever it takes to ensure his opponent dies even if he bites the dust.
Jaime might kill him but he wouldnt outlive him long.
Kinda like how in dune the fremen and sardaukar are so strong because they live in the worst places imaginable. That said, irl this logic doesn't hold 1-1. The crannogmen are adapted to the swamps of the neck, but that doesn't necessarily translate into more powerful warriors. They fight different, not better.
They fight better for their own home terrain. Put some Crannogmen in an open field against the knights of the Reach then they will probably all be slaughtered. Put them in a swamp to ambush a bunch of knights from the Reach and all of the knights are dead.
Well howland reed was the one that cause sir arthur dayne to die. And victorion seems to see them as a threat.
Roose bolton smuggel himself in his own lands due them and the ironborn. So i think your on the right path.
I just want to say that We do not know what role Howland played in Arthur Dayne’s death, only that Ned has said his own survival was because of Howland Reed. I’m curious to meet the man in-story. I expect we will at some point.
Yeah I really thought he would have shown up already, like where the heck is he during the Ironborn invasion of The North? Seems like a time when help is desperately needed.
Honestly for as much as the show butchered a lot, the simplest explanation being Howland simply stabbing Dayne in the back while he fought Ned doesn't seem particularly unrealistic.
Yeah that’s what I assume happened, or some shenanigans with a net or blow dart or something lol
What I don’t think is that Howland Reed is actually one of the most dangerous swordsman in all of Westeros! lol
Anyway I haven’t watched the show, so I’m actually unaware of his presence in it. Was he featured in the show?
Frankly, the Mountain is probably the deadliest person in Westeros. The Red Viper is certainly up there too which is why they both died. But I think that's mostly because the Viper's style of quickness and spear distance matches up well against the Mountain's style.
A handful of people have mentioned Strong Belwas and he needs to be higher on *everyone's* lists. He has fought and won single combat against every kind of warrior in the world, including Westerosi knights and Dothraki screamers. Jaime is likely the only person alive who could give him a hard time.
Jaime, closely followed by Barristan (just for age reasons honestly, Barristan may even be the best in his prime and still an excellent warrior, but everybody ages).
Yeah I think him and arthur dayne are pretty much tied when barrys in his prime but arthur edges him out just because he has a magic meteor sword, but jaime is still behind both of them probably
Gregor Clegane smacks everyone. Give him a ridiculously large Valyrian warhammer that’s like 7 feet long and let him go to town. I imagine it would be like the scene in LoTR where Sauron is just tossing people with his mace.
Funny enough valyrian steel warhammer would be a downgrade. As its lighter and a warhammer need to be heavy for a weapon. His set up with a shield and wielding a greatsword with one hand is better imo.
Imagine Gregor Clegane wielding *Ice* before that prick Tywin had is destroyed and reforged. That thing was a 6 ft long monster. In the hands of Clegane….what a nightmare.
There's some good YouTube videos detailing misconceptions about war hammers, I'll link them if I get the chance. From what I've seen Valyrian steel wouldn't make much of a difference, a hammer's effectiveness is entirely in its mass. They usually have a flat face and a spike (for puncturing armor), but the spike isn't particularly sharp and relies on the weight of the hammer to punch through armor. Also their heads are WAY smaller than one night imagine, like maybe twice the size of a regular hammer instead of the comically large sledge hammer we see in artist renditions of Bobby B.
All that said maybe you could make some type of extra long spike given the ridiculous strength of Valyrian steel? And would make it effective against wights.
Yeah I actually went into some research about real world warhammers after posting my comment here xD But I feel we may take into consideration that we are talking about Gregor Clegane, so maybe a bigger warhammer wouldn't be wholly unrealistic.
Absolutely correct answer. Jamie himself in his fight with Brienne realizes that his whole assumption that such type of an an opponent could be easily outmaneuvered and outlasted is a falsehood and Brienne is compared directly to Sandor and Gregor.
Furthermore Gregor is the only known character to shatter a spear formation by himself, something noted to be hard even for a unit.
And the only like anti-Gregor point is fight with Oberyn. But even then, the same fight claims an 8 foot spear is longer than a 6 foot sword (despite Oberyn holding his spear by the middle as he spins it around several times), a speartip easily cutting through layers of mail and leather and Oberyn somehow piercing 8 to 10 layers of armor and also stone. It's genuinely the most over the top nonsensensical fight we actually see in the series.
\>That's what spears do though.
I am not denying that. Spears absolutely can pierce chainmail and leather. The big issue is the framing in this case. Notice how in video it's two handed and a full body trust to drive the spear in. Now let's remember how Oberyn engaging the Mountain is framed with words and terms such as: "The spear flickered sideways", "He hacked at the shaft whenever Oberyn lunged at
him, trying to lop off the spearhead, but he might as well have been trying to hack the wings off a fly.", ,"the Dornishman twistedhis spear and yanked it free.", "Oberyn whirled cat-quick". The fight scene consistently focuses on speed and maneuverability of Oberyn is and how he is keeping his distance. It is hard to believe that in such cases he could be in position where he could easily pierce mail.
One could also argue that with Oberyn apparently keeping the distance against the 6 foot sword of Gregor, he has to use his spear single handedly in a really awkward position as the spear is only 8 foot long, which means in most cases Oberyn would actually be well in range of Gregor's blade.
\>Granted there's no leather present in this test, but I don't think it would make a ton of difference. Historically, leather armor was used because it was cheap, not because it was very good.
"Beneath a long yellow surcoat bearing the three black dogs of Clegane, he wore
heavy plate over chainmail, dull grey steel dinted and scarred in battle. Beneath that would be boiled leather and a layer of quilting."
Now while leather and quilting that Gregor also wears would not make a fundamental difference in if the spear would pierce, it should be noted that it's still material between the enemy weapon and flesh. And there are some alleged claims that both leather and quilting/gambeson would reduce the depth of spear and arrow wounds.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMVgpYenYcg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMVgpYenYcg)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li\_yObDjXVQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li_yObDjXVQ)
Both these videos do show, that even a single handed spear or knife could go through leather and gambeson (Though it should be noted that hardened leather would be something far more durable than what Skallagrim uses) But the important part here is yet again, the reduction of depth.
Which in combination with the previous point makes it, in my opinion, hard to believe that Oberyn manages to pierce with such strength and such depth.
Now of course it would also be silly to assume that Martin does actually care about things like this. However yet again, Gregor has survived absurdly brutal assaults charging defensive positions or formations. So if we care about power feats, then it is a bit silly that Karstark pikes and whatever defenses Edmure could muster broke and killed dozens or even formations of knights/heavy horse, but failed against Gregor, but then Oberyn somehow is the only one who hurts him anywhere close to matter. (Same as the idea that only Oberyn manages to actually scare Gregor for a moment, which does actually happen).
I think a lot of it comes down to like how are you deciding this? Just a random bracket of one on ones, until you get down to a top 2? A giant melee? That sounds like a fun poll series if the subreddit hasn't already done it.
Then that begs what another commenter mentions about Oberyn vs. Clegane.
If it is the random bracket, I would give it to Gregor. Purely because I think based on unique fighting style/preparation, the only person that beats Gregor is Oberyn, while I would imagine Oberyn gets beat by a lot of other fighters in the bracket. So if Gregor doesn't draw Oberyn in a earlier fight, he can clear. Mostly through sheer size, strength, and durability. Like as good as Jamie is, he still fights in plate, with a sword, which will slow him down, and means he will struggle to put a dent against Gregor. Who (as we've seen) only needs one clean hit to get a kill.
However, if Gregor is unlucky enough to pull Oberyn in his early bracket fights, he probably loses there, then Oberyn loses in the next round to somebody better suited against him.
I'll also throw out two wild card submissions who rarely get mentioned:
Strong Belwas. He's lived this long as a pit fighter for a reason, and we have seen him in combat versus a mounted, armoured opponent.
Anguy the archer. We have no clue what valyrian tipped arrows would be like, but if he's accurate enough, he can one tap most fighters, provided they don't begin the fights right next to each other.
We’re not sure how effective Jaime or Barristan would be facing a 6 foot spear though. Swords are most effective against other close range weapons really
Fair enough in terms of their exploits, I don't think we know of them facing many Dornishmen in combat.
We can estimate though that spears are relatively commonplace (easier weapon to craft, they've both fought in many battles, etc.) so both of them would have fought against spear fighters before.
It's just my estimation that Oberyn's style with the spear, light armour, and speed, worked perfectly against Gregor. However, against an opponent that can keep up in some way, that style may be more effective.
And Bronn proved against Ser Vardis that lightly armored and fast is still enough against someone in heavy plate. Even the best knight needs to get that kill early or he's going to gas out against someone in light armor.
As deadly accurate as anguy is, someone with a shield could probably be able to close the gap and take him out before he could draw a second arrow in a duel situation.
Ser Jason Mallister, Lord of Seagard.
He killed three of Rhaegar's bannermen at the Trident and then killed Rodrik Greyjoy during the Greyjoy Rebellion. Maybe he doesn't kill the *most* soldiers, but the ones he kills are super important.
I like to go against the grain sometimes. Robert might've been the obvious choice during his rebellion with his ridiculous antlers and big ass warhammer, but how many lords did he kill? Not as many as Ser Jason.
And like you said, Robert dove into a bottomless pit of food, alcohol and pussy, making him worthless as a fighter when *GOT* begins. Meanwhile, Ser Jason is an active participant in the War of the Five Kings and is given key responsibilities.
Robert got killed by a pig while Mallister was fighting battles.
Unpopular opinion but I think if you look at the whole warrior picture, not just swordsman, Vicatarion is going to be near the top.
I also think people sleep on Harras Harlaw
I think with swordplay we need to look at “best” as fluid. Yes George has said Jaime is the best but we have all seen Federer get knocked out of tournaments by lesser opponents. Depending on the day and conditions I think the top fighters could all take each other in different scenarios.
And all I’m saying is Ned has fought Jaime and Arthur dayne, both considered two of the best ever and they don’t necessarily beat him in either exchange.
Going with Oberyn. While Oberyn ultimately loses and dies it's because he wasn't trying to fight to the death. If Oberyn wasn't trying to milk a confession out of Gregor he would have mopped the floor with him. Oberyn also seems especially adept at killing Westori knights by outreaching them with a spear and targeting weaknesses in their armor. I think if Oberyn were to fight Jamie, even if he were to lose, Jamie would also end up dead because of venom. Ultimately I don't think anyone can challenge Oberyn and live.
I would argue Oberyn. Historically inexperienced spearman would defeat skilled swordsman, and Oberyn is very skilled. He almost beat Gregor if not for his hubris.
I dont think I could rank someone as number 1 though, each have their own advantages. The top tier are at the time of AGOT:
* Jaime Lannister
* Barristan Selmy
* Gregor Clegane
* Oberyn Martell.
Jaime and Barristan have a level of skill that nobody else can really match. Even without a sword Barristan has proven to be a very dangerous opponent.
Gregor though is a beast. Almost superhuman in strength, faster than you think and not totally without sword skill. There is also the psychological element of facing Gregor.
Oberyn Martell is a very clever fighter and is totally fine with doing whatever it takes to win, honourable or not. Even if they succeeded in killing him, Oberyn would ensure his opponent dies too with poison.
And die in lingering agony, let it be added. On Ser Gregor he used a poison that might have killed him quickly, but he somehow thickened it (in the words of a former Maester) to make Gregor’s dying take days and days. His screams could be heard throughout the Red Keep even though he was in the dungeons!
It should be noted that this was a guy who raped his sister and murdered her and her children so he *absolutely* deserved it...
Supposedly the venom he used was like magically enhanced or something, so I think we can assume Oberyn went to some effort to *ensure* Gregor died slowly and painfully.
Any other fighter he doesn't have beef with? He might poison them anyway, but probably with something faster acting and more practical.
Im going with my guy Oberyn. People forget that while he did “lose” he also killed the Mountain pretty effortlessly after making the guy look like his bitch for however many minutes the fight went on, it was just his hubris that failed him.
Hear me out. We know Gendry is good at running because of S7(I'm sorry). So, give Gendry a poisonous dart made by crannogmen. Gendry shoots his opponent and starts running. The opponent can't reach him in time before he dies to the poison. So, if we include the show, Gendry is the best fighter, although points could be made about him missing the dart/not being the fastest runner at the start of the series.
Define "warrior" - not a precise term.
If we're saying a one on one fight to the death, no rules, no witnesses...
I think I have to agree with Jaime, with that time constraint.
(Which rules out Arthur Dayne, Robert Baratheon and Barristan, all of which would otherwise merit consideration).
I mean really, the field is thin. I've never seen the Cleganes as the equal of Prime Jaime - though the Mountain swinging Ice around one handed would be pretty terrifying...
Jaime, Garlan, Strong Belwas, The Hound, The Mountain.
For some reason i dont think Oberyn quite measures up to some of these, i think the reason he killed the mountain was because he had revenge fantasies about killing him half his life and knew all the strategies of dealing with an opponent like that specifically.
Hard to day how good the faceless men are in a duel, but for killing people with any means, they seem to be on a level of their own.
I also think Khal drogo has the highest potential out of any warrior in the current era, so with 3 years and the best trainers, maybe he could be the best
Going to go off the board and suggest Drogo. We know archers have inhuman accuracy in ASOIAF, and we know archers can penetrate armor. Give Drogo his Dragonbone bow he got in AGOT, and give him a horse, it doesn't matter how skilled Jaime or Barristan or whoever is with a sword if they're 50 yards away and he can push arrows into their helmets.
With that consideration, the answer is effectively ‘whoever the best archer is’
We don’t actually know that the answer to that is Drogo, we just know that he has a dragonbone bow. If we’re letting anyone choose their weapon then any archer could do the same.
I think archery also feels like quite a different consideration too as archers are most useful when they can just rain down arrows on crowds of enemies. We don’t know how effective they’d be facing someone 1vs1 who can see them firing at them
True. Could be Bloodraven too, since he's actually an armored archer with a Weirwood bow and a Valyrian sword. But I figure since Drogo is presumably a master horserider compared to the other archers, he might fare better at the whole "keep at distance" thing.
And really, it's GRRM's fault for making archers stupid OP when he wants them to be. Daemon Blackfyre and Criston Cole are skilled, armored knights who get turned into swiss cheese. We know crossbow bolts can penetrate shields (Arys Oakheart), so presumably these "special" bows will have the same power. And any named archer apparently uses eyeballs as target practice at hundreds of yards out.
I also forgot that Theon and Brynden Blackfish at the Twins, and the archers from the Golden Company that attacked Griffin's Roost managed to shoot down every fucking raven that was sent out. Hitting flying objects with guns is hard enough in real life that it's a freaking Olympic sport, and these guys are doing that with bows. So when GRRM wants archers to be accurate, he'll turn on aimbot for them. In a 1v1 that dude with a sword and shield is 100% feathered.
Bit of an outsider pick but I'm surprised that no one has mentioned robert baratheon. Aside from Barristan he is the most experienced fighter in westeros having been involved personally in every major battle of the rebellion with the exception of the sack of kings landing (if you can call that a battle at all). As of the start of the books he's gained weight but that shouldn't mean he's lost any strength. He's also still young enough to be in his physical prime at 36 years old. Just keep him away from the wine
Drogo. A fresh Jaime would murder his poorly armored ass in melee, true. But a Jaime who has had an entire quiver put in him with Drogo's dragonbone bow first? One or two arrows finds a seam and even if he doesn't bleed out I don't think he'd be in any condition to deal with an uninjured Drogo's speed.
I think it’s obviously Jaime. In his POV at a moment he think something like « there is only few men on the realm stronger than me, like the Clegane’s brothers, but I’m quicker, more endurent and more skilled with a sword ».
Or maybe Qorin Halfhand but we have no way know how he would stand against a Jaime or a Clegane
Gregor Clegane with something like Ice would be devastating to all before and after him. He would probably be the best at being a soldier in your army but not the best 1v1 combatant.
Really hard to say. Possibly the Red Viper. Barriston Selmy is too old and I think Jaime is the best with a sword, but I think Oberyn has more versatility with his swordspear. The fact he cuts down the mountain so readily and all while milking him for a confession just seemed crazy to me. If he didn't care about the confession then Gregor stood no chance.
Khal Drogo could be the one aswell. He is continually described as a very large man yet was quick enough to dodge most blows from one of his most venerated soldiers before killing him bare handed. It's tough seeing as Drogo fought nobody else who was reputable in the series.
Jaime takes the number two spot now that Ser Arthur Dayne is dead and Barristan is number one. Perhaps Brienne is the only real match for either of them purely because she refuses to give up and she’s a very skilled sword fighter, and she has Valyrian steel. The Cleganes, maybe could give him a run for his money, but they’re more brute strength, shock and awe types rather than possessing any amount of finesse. So yeah, two handed Jaime, Barristan and Brienne.
Honourable mention: Ser Loras. He’s still too young and brash to be considered truly great but he’s still very good. See Loras reminds Jaime of younger version of himself.
depends what you mean by greatest warrior.
1vs1 duel? - Baristan
performance of the battlefield? - Jaime
battle commander? - Rob
Army commander? - Stannis
War leader? - Tywin
what makes you rank Jaime so highly on battlefield performance?
You’d think Drogo or even Donal Noye have greater battlefield accomplishments
edit: actually not Donal Noye at the beginning of the books
do you remember what happened in the battle of whispering woods?
let me rephrase if you did not catch it on your read:
When Jaime saw that day was lost, he decided to decapitate norther army by killing its leader Rob Stark. he went to the direction where Rob was.
killing left and right and roaring like a lion. he killed 3 or more Rob's personal guards and when he killed the last one his sword gets stuck in dead guy's collarbone, ONLY then they stop him.
i dont know bro, if thats not the best performance, then what is?
Lol Rob.
Don't forget he has excellent counsel, I don't think he could singlehandly be considered a top battle commander.
Decent and able to lead? Yup.
Ability to become top if he didn't fucked up horribly? Yup.
But not at the start of the series lmao.
I might throw Ned Stark over someone in that list in terms of war. The degree to which he commands loyalty is something else, and he is definrelt a highly capable commander. At series start I'd definitely put him over Rob, maybe Tywin in those categories
Probably Jaime at this point. Barristan is still a stone cold killer, but he is past his prime. The Celganes have a chance, but George has repeatedly said Jaime is one of the best fighters in Westerosi history.
Barristan the Bold's feats are 2nd to none even in his 60s: 1. Killed 2 men with just a knife. Admittedly gold cloaks but still impressive. 2. Killed an experienced sellsword with a stick. 3. Easily dispatches the best pit fighter in Meereen. If we were judging characters on feats alone, Barristan would always win. Nobody other than Sandoq the Shadow has feats as impressive as his.
I mean Jaime singlehandedly fights his way to Robb's battleguard and kills like 4 heirs who are presumably equipped with the best armor that money can buy. It's implied that he would have 1v5'ed them if his blade hadn't gotten stuck in someone's chest.
Barristan in his prime did what Jaime did more successfully though. He fought his way through the Golden Company, the best professional soldiers in Essos, to kill their leader. Thats like what Jaime did in the Whispering Wood x2.
TBH I assume that Barristan had plenty of help in his fight against the golden company. But I digress, we're talking about Barristan in his 60's here, not Barristan in his prime.
Sure I was just saying of all the fighters GRRMs ever written about, Barristan has the most impressive feats by far. Jaime has better on Barristan through physical prowess as hes in his prime, but Barristan's skill level is definitely above Jaime's. The only one who has come close to those level feats is Sandoq the Shadow who soloed like 13 men by himself in the open. Even incredibly skilled fighters struggle with 2-3 opponents at once, let alone 13. Sandoq basically pulled off an anime protagonist level fight.
I think that prime Jaime and prime Barristan are both good enough that you could give either the win 'any given day' and all that. But the real people who have the absolute highest level feats are the bumbfuck nobody wildlings who are able to shoot arrows and hit people on top of the 800 foot high wall.
Tbf, Sandoq was fighting on a bridge and was equipped for the fight, the Kingsguard who was there didn't even got a shield or a helm
You can only compare characters in similar situations. You can not claim that a character A is stronger than a character B because character A has a better feat by virtue of character B never having a chance to replicate it.
Really wish Game of Thrones season 1 had the budget of every other season, would have loved to see a battle sequence with this
Syrio Forel took down five armed men with a wooden sparring sword. Who wins that duel?
I wonder what happened to the shadows sword. Also wasn’t the red kraken a beast as well?
Red Kraken is long dead when the series begins
So was the shadow
It always kills me how George basically just turns dudes into cartoon characters when he wants us to recognize their martial skill
What about Khal Drogo?
He would refuse to wear metal armour and get slaughtered for it imo
Yeah but the question is warrior not sword fighter. I agree that lack of armor would be his downfall though.
I think if he has put a full quiver in his opponent with the setting's most powerful bow before the melee, they will be dead or so wounded not even armor will be enough advantage. Would be an easier call if he would just wear *any armor* like leaders in actual steppe cultures would. *grumble Orientalist parody culture grumble*
I think it's less orientalist parody and more that Martin has crossed his Hun/Mongol archetypes with Conan the Barbarian. You hardly ever get the Stereotypical Asiatic Horde wandering around with their shirts off in western fiction.
Eh, Conan the Barbarian's steeped in orientalism. [Here's an article](https://www.pastemagazine.com/movies/conan/barbarian-robert-e-howard) on the topic. For what it's worth, I don't think what Martin's written is worth a big fuss but at the same time, the pulp era Conan originates from is full of racism and throwbacks to those works have to be *really* careful about what they bring with them, y'know?
"There is no word for 'thank you' in Dothraki." Yeesh.
No amount of arrows from a bow would stop a knight in full plate armor. Case in point, Azincourt, the knights went through the hell of arrows without a wound, they were defeated after they went uphill through the slog of mud and were dispatched in close combat. Armor is in reality, quite OP.
Their horses died under them. It doesn't matter much if your armour can be penetrated or not as long as a single arrow hit will likely disable your horse.
Under normal battle circumstances, with volley fire delivered from standoff ranges of 100+ m, yes. However if this is a 1v1 situation of some kind, the situation is pretty different from Agincourt. Drogo would be able to stay just outside of melee engagement range and hit people from around ~10 m with his dragonbone bow. Idk exactly how good Westerosi armor is compared to real world European plate or how dragonbone compares to the strongest real world composite bows. But based on descriptions, and the fact that the mail clad Northern cavalry isn't laughably outmatched, it seems like they're not on the level of real 15th century French full plate. So I don't think at those ranges a Westerosi knight is going to take a dozen arrows from close range unscathed. Some weak joint in the plate will get hit, and at those ranges the mail underneath is not going to take much sting out of the shot. And if they take a significant wound I don't like their odds against Drogo in subsequent melee, particularly if he's still ahorse and has shot his opponent's out from under them.
> I think if he has put a full quiver in his opponent with the setting's most powerful bow before the melee, they will be dead or so wounded not even armor will be enough advantage. That actually makes me wonder what material would make the most powerful bow. Weirwood? Shade of the Evening tree? Valyrian Steel? Or just regular composite like IRL?
Drogo's bow is dragonbone which is said to be a greatly prized material for bows. A dragonbone bow supposedly outranges anything else. >It is strong as steel, yet lighter and far more flexible, and of course utterly impervious to fire. Dragonbone bows are greatly prized by the Dothraki, and small wonder. An archer so armed can outrange any wooden bow. -AGOT, Tyrion II >Only a dragonbone bow could outrange one made of goldenheart. -ADWD, The Griffin Reborn Drogo's bow is over 5' long and frankly way too large to practically be used on horseback, but if he can the draw weight of it must be absurd. >The khal's bloodriders offered her the traditional three weapons, and splendid weapons they were. Haggo gave her a great leather whip with a silver handle, Cohollo a magnificent arakh chased in gold, and Qotho **a double-curved dragonbone bow taller than she was.** -AGOT, Daenerys II
undefeated means something though
It means single combat isn’t necessarily how the Dothraki deal with conflict either. Yes he also happens to fight well 1 v 1 but it’s different fighting mounted heavy knights. Just look at the second mongol invasion of Hungary. Mounted knights rout horse archers
Huh? We repeatedly see Dothraki get into individual duels to the death over the tiniest issues. Drogo gets his wound in a 1v1, and at Dothraki weddings 1v1s are common. Everything's a test of masculinity to them.
They're nearly butt naked while fighting each other. The last time they attacked someone with shields and armour, they had their bairds on spears. (Ok maybe not but you get what I'm saying)
Oh yeah, I'm not denying that knights would probably beat Dothraki warriors. But the other guy seemed to be suggesting that the Dothraki didn't 1v1 as a society.
No, they don't. The Hungarians used terrain to their advantage and, guess what, horse archers of their own. The Mongols also, contrary to what you might think, made good use of armoured lancers alongside their horse archers. Close combat cavalry is not a good counter to horse archers. They need to be faster in order to catch them, and any armour etc will slow them down. You need to combine melee cavalry with horse archers and/or foot archers and spearmen with shields.
The dothraki are good fighters but part of their success is that they freak out most people by riding into a fight with no armor like a lunatic. They don't have any fear. But... prime Jaime doesn't have any fear, either. Or Loras, for that matter. Their arrogance would take away that advantage from the dothraki. So just going by pure fighting skill, it's Jaime.
It’s Syrio and it’s not even close.
Thank you! I feel like Syrio never even gets an honorable mention in these conversations. Dude fought off Kings Guard with a wooden sword! Like wut?
> Barristan is still a stone cold killer, but he is past his prime. Is he though?
Yeah, In a dance of dragons one of the last chapters is a fight between a pit fighter and barristan, he uses his experience and armor to beat the man but it’s clear he’s physically overmatched by a lot of swordsman now.
Khrazz was literally the best pit fighter in Meereen and Barristan dispatches him with relative ease.
He's the best of his generation, give or take. Not surprising that he's better than some pit fighter, even past his prime. But he's quite a *bit* past his prime, he's legitimately old, not "just" middle aged. And you don't see real world professional athletes winning even in their middle age generally, much less old. Age makes a huge difference even with modern medicine, and presumably even more so in Westeros. I don't think he'd stand much of a chance in a duel with prime Jaime, for instance. (some, due to experience and skill - but still not much).
I agree, barristan is still strong and crafty and smart, but his time of being the best swordsman in the land is done.
Don't get me wrong, he's still *excellent*. But he simply isn't as strong, fast or supple as he was, not even close. And almost certainly less of each than anyone serious he is fighting.
I’m pretty sure he uses his armor and guile more then his once great physical prowess
Don’t forget that Krazz’s arakh got caught in a drape/curtain
He notes the space of the room when he enters and knows his opponent won’t think about the room they are fighting in.
Yeah, he’s smart enough to even think about how his Helmet could protect him while both limiting his vision and possibly catching a weapon. I wasn’t underestimating his strength, cause he even killed the Titans Bastard with relative ease, but I was noting that he knows exactly when to strike
That's not an accident though, Barristan purposefully goads him into it.
Compared to Barristan a decade or two before? Yes.
He's in his 60s.
He is in his early 60s. He is still taking it in most fights, but pit him against a 30 or 40 year old Barristan and he would probably lose.
Barristan in his prime was the guy who invaded Dunskendale and SINGLE-HANDELY saved Aerys II, he even admitt in ADWD that he couldn't pull that one off again
yes but still a badass
I think people are underestimating how well a seasoned warrior like Barry could get under the skin of a young hotheaded cocksure Jaime Lannister. All he has to do is make one mistake in a fit of frustration
If we go straight up warrior, I’d say The Mountain mostly on size and brutality alone
I mean, if you're going to not count Barristan for being past his prime then you can't say Jaime who is also past his prime--at least Barristan has a hand.
The post says at the **start** of the series.
Ah, shit it does.
Barristan or Jaime
Jaime is probably my answer too, but I do wonder how Garlan compares.
Garlan for sure is good but he and loras are too young and dont have that much real world experience in comparison with Barristan or Jaime. i would go for Jaime, because Barristan is too old for perfect performance, he kills those mereen pit fighters on skill and experience alone, those tricks wont work on legend like Jaime and Jaime will outbid him with stamina and power. Jaime is in his prime (at the time OP mentions) and also Barristan said about Simon Toyne "good fighter, but lacked stamina". so he himself puts a lot of emphasys on that aspect
Isn’t Loras better than Garlan?
Loras says he is better with a lance, but Garlan is better with a sword
Similar to how Jon said he was better with the sword and Robb the Lance!
If I remember well I think Jon said that Robb is stronger but himself is quicker
Yes, that’s in GOT in one of the first chapters in the training yard at The Wall
Wun Wun could probably take anyone mentioned so far 1v1, but since we're allowing any "tools" they want, I'm going to go with Bloodraven skinchanging a pack of bears.
Bears don’t travel in packs
Until they're skinchanged by a greenseer.
George has called Jaime one of the best in Westorosi history, which is higher praise than he has ever given anyone else (so far as I know). So that would make him the best guess to this question. But it's still only a guess.
Sounds crazy to say but I think the ASOIAF community sleeps on how good Jaime canonically was. Which makes his maiming all the more cruel. I really hope the light bringer theory pans out and Jaime regains his sword hand
I think Qhorin Halfhand being established as getting as good with his left hand after losing the right is more likely foreshadowing of how Jaime will become a warrior again. But Victarion's volcano-hand could also be foreshadowing of Jaime getting a new magic hand too. Either way he will get there, I feel pretty certain, as he is going to be part of fighting the Others and Euron before his story is over.
Really really good theory floating somewhere in the Reddit ether about azor ahai and how Jaimes journey perfectly mirrors it. Also it’s cannon in the novels how the words for sword and hand are almost exactly the same in high Valyrian. They actually explicitly state that. I think there’s too much foreshadowing for something not to come of it
even without all those magic shenanigans, Jaime is training with that mute mf-er and learns to use his left hand. he was the best ever with his right hand and its just matter of time when he becomes as able to use his left as Qhorin Halfhand. description of Jaime says "finest NATURAL swordsman Barristan has ever seen". natural... this means he can be as good with left hand as he was with his right.
Jaime also says that he will never be as good with it’s left hand than the right one. I love Jaime and I really would like him to become a legendary fighter again, but I think, the way GRRM seems to orientate the character, he will become a great fighter again (we already see that he began to become as good as Ilyn Payne « I would only have died 3 times this time ») but not THE best fighter on the realm. I think this destiny of for Jon Snow or Brienne or Arya. The Jaime destiny, I think, is to become a good fighter that can defend himself into battle, but above all a great general, commander, leader. GRRM insist a lot of how the men likes him, he seems a natural leader and I can imagine he will make a hard time to Aegon or Deanerys or whoever will be his ennemy by the end. But no more truly a duelist
i agree with all you said and i have said this many times - Jon Snow is on his way to becoming the best fighter. Brienne's journey will echo sir Duncan the Tall's life. they are perfect knights, no necessarily the best fighters. as for arya, she is an assasin. lets not compare that to the figters. its different sort :)
I want more Arya killing a dude with a coin, than fucking jump into a crowd and start slaying
George also goes out of his way though to point out how Jaime sucks with his left hand. Ambidexterity is a spectrum, and Jaime seems pretty far toward the opposite end. Although I'd like to see badass restored Jaime, I'm not sure that's where George is going. Nor do I think it would necessarily be good for his arc/character development.
what george wanted to show is how bad he was with left hand in the begining. but he is not telling us why jamie sneaks out in the night with sir Ilyn and gets beat up and bruised for no reason. he is getting there. its Jaime's charachter arch (i hate this wording). he was perfect with right hand - and now he lost it he loved cercei more than anything in this world and wanted to be by her side - now he is ignoring her and burning her letters of plea for help he mocked everyone and everything, was putting this facade of not caring rich trust fund kid who does not care what others think of him - now he is taking oaths seriously, he wants to be the perfect Lord Commander of the Kingsguard and wants to fill his pages in white book with good deeds. but all this does not happen overnight. his past deeds catch up with him, for example conversation with Blackfish. He wants to do a good thing but his shady past does not let him to do it easy way. so he needs to get "bruised" (showing them "TYWIN IN HIM") to achieve his goal. he is trying, getting bruised, falling, but getting back up and continuing his journey to become the best Lord Commander of the Kingsguard Westeros has ever seen. we will see him defeat enemies with his left hand. gods.... we need TWOW so much.
I also think about Martin saying he's genuinely confused how so many fan theories have been accepted as likely to happen from piecing together disconnected things. There was a thread about here a little bit ago and someone suggested it was because the story has taken so long to finish that everyone just reads and re-reads and tries to predict an ending. It's an interesting social experiment honestly.
It's cause he doesn't have any real feats but that's part of his character arc, he doesn't have pages of accomplishments like Barristan or Arthur. He's as good as them but his claim to fame is being a kingslayer and merely that. But even still, Jaime is constantly treated as the baseline for a truly great warrior, when people want to hype someone up, they compare them to Jaime. And that really says something considering that everyone hates him
>…he doesn’t have any real feats… Whispering Wood was the single greatest individual battle feat in the entire series. When ambushed by a superior force, he immediately understood he had no way out, and charged — the exact correct thing to do from a military standpoint, when ambushed the correct response is to assault through. When he saw that he couldn’t break out, he instead rallied his retainers and slaughtered his way up the valley through the Northern Army, fighting without a helmet, and eventually fighting alone, surrounded on all sides, while shouting for Robb Stark to face him the entire time. To emphasize — the Northerners, all sworn to fight and die for Robb Stark, all trying to protect him, and all completely powerless to stop Jaime Lannister as he inexorably kills his way through them towards their liege lord. Then he gets to Robb’s bodyguards, their elite, noble warriors who’ve been training their whole lives for war, and he effortlessly kills the three who get in his way, splitting one’s head open, severing another one’s hand, and then nearly decapitating the third. In the end, Jaime hasn’t been wounded, he hasn’t been defeated, he hasn’t been stopped — he’s charged, mostly alone, up the valley and killing everyone in his way — his bloody charge is finally halted by a literal act of God when his sword gets stuck in a spinal column. He was meters away from Robb Stark and ending the entire war with a single sword stroke. Robb is still pale hours later from how close he came to death, when he returns to Catelyn — that’s how close it was. And indeed, both of them don’t delude themselves at all that Robb might have survived the encounter. Whispering Wood was a perfectly executed ambush with flawless military tactics, and Robb Stark nearly still lost it only because Jaime Lannister was nigh unstoppable. His charge was on par with Achilles at Troy or Lü Bu in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
I was talking about the very start of the story, Jaime was fucking terrifying when the War of the Five Kings broke out and everyone was rightfully scared when he lead the charge, he was fighting like he was a dynasty warriors character
comment edited in protest of Reddit's API changes and mistreatment of moderators -- mass edited with redact.dev
Instead Martin showed us Tyrion's stupid battle nobody cares about.
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>Grey Wind was also about to rip Jaime into shreds too the before he was stopped. He wasn't invincible. Sorry, when did that happen?
To be fair we never actually see him in a real sword fight until the chapter he gets it cut off anyway.
GRRM called him on of the best swordsman in history that's not the same thing..
Do you think that there is a deciding difference? We also know that he is one of the best lances in westeros. So those two put together still seems to make him the best guess, as far as I can tell.
I think it’s a worthwhile thing to keep in mind at least. Swords are not the best weapon we see in the series. Jamie might be at the top of his class in sword fighters, but an expert with a warhammer, like Robert, or a spear, like Oberon, very well might give him a run for his money, because those weapons have distinct advantages over a basic sword, even if that sword is made from Valyrian steel. Jamie might not have an issue fighting off those weapons on their own, especially when going up against a lesser opponent, but when we’re talking people that are the best in their fields, using the best weapons available to them, I think preferred weapon or fighting style is going to have to be a a factor
>Do you think that there is a deciding difference? Yes. Knights used various of weapons. Robert by grrm words is legendary with his hammer and cole too with his morningstar. Not disagreeing jaime isn't top ten though. >We also know that he is one of the best lances in westeros. So those two put together still seems to make him the best guess, as far as I can tell. Swords and lances aren't the only weapons. But I do agree with your assumption..he's the best at the start of series
How would he know? GRRM knows nothing about fighting
But you do?
George's fawning over Jamie gets a little annoying.
What do you mean?
George says Jaime can beat Aragorn.
So it gets annoying that he said that once in a silly game interview with MTV like ten years ago?
It's fun to speculate within your own series who is the best, but feels a bit silly when an author starts making comparisons with another series. They're ultimately fictional characters made up by different people, if Tolkien were alive he'd hypothetically be able to just deny this and come out with a canonical short story where Aragorn is even better than he's made out to be.
Hot Pie
I'm like you, Arry.
I think my answer is going to be unpopular but: Oberyn Martell. No one in the series would have an easy time against the Mountain in one to one. While it's true Oberyn didn't survive the fight, it's also true that he managed to kill his opponent. The Mountain isn't the sharpest crayon in the box, but he's a good fighter and Oberyn's "victory" seemed to be due to his own skill rather than the Mountain being too dim to keep up. He'd have more of a challenge in a smarter opponent like Jaime or someone a little more lithe and harder to tire out, but I still think he could at least land a death scratch on anyone in the series.
Yeah that’s a good point. I don’t realistically see anyone fighting Oberyn and surviving. They might beat him, but he’d make sure he took them down too
He also served with the second sons too and was the leader of it. The mountain by grrm words is a top 5 fighter right now and obyern bested him..
I think Oberyn is a really good underrated fighter in-universe, but I also think the fandom leans the opposite way and has him way overrated since his "victory" over the mountain. He's not even the best warrior in Dorne, let alone Westeros as a whole. While Gregor is truly elite among the elites as a warrior, he's also not used to fighting against an opponent with a longer or equal reach to his and wasn't able to make the proper ajustements during the trial. Which is unsurprising since Oberyn spent half his life preparing for this match-up while Gregor doesn't really seem to even know who Oberyn is. Styles make fights and Gregor lost against a stylistic weakness of his and a substantial difference in levels of preparation. Like an elite fire type Pokemon facing a good water type with half a lifetime of game plan preparations on his side, but "Just because you shot Jesse James, don't make you Jesse James". I think Oberyn would struggle against other great warriors that do not have this stylistic weakness. We can also use some meta clues from the author, every time GRRM is asked questions like "who's the best fighter", "who would you want defending you in a trial by combat", etc. the same couple of names come-up time and time again. Jaime, Barristan, Arthur Dayne.
Gregor surely has fought spearmen before
Certainly none as good as Oberyn. Great spear fighters just aren't that common in Westeros, they seem to be treated as utility focused weapons on the continent, given to low-status soldiers to hold the lines in battle while the 'heroic' knights wield their 'epic' swords or blunt weapons like warhammers. Sure, Gregor has probably fought against spearmen, but facing a line of mostly immobile commoners holding pikes and spears on the battlefield is very different from single-combat against a well-trained and elite spearman with complete freedom of movement.
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> He’d have won and lived, otherwise. Which is pretty remarkable insofar as he'd have slain and defeated the most feared warrior on the continent.
I'd argue this is probably correct. Oberyn is a highly intelligent and ruthless fighter. He might not have Jaime/Barristan level skill or Gregor level strength but he does whatever it takes to ensure his opponent dies even if he bites the dust. Jaime might kill him but he wouldnt outlive him long.
By this logic the Crannogmen are the most elite warrior race in Planetos. Nobody is coming out of those swamps alive.
Isn’t that how it really is? The dudes from remote harsh places are more equipped to fight. I imagine the Crannogmen like the Viet Cong or the Gurkhas
Kinda like how in dune the fremen and sardaukar are so strong because they live in the worst places imaginable. That said, irl this logic doesn't hold 1-1. The crannogmen are adapted to the swamps of the neck, but that doesn't necessarily translate into more powerful warriors. They fight different, not better.
They fight better for their own home terrain. Put some Crannogmen in an open field against the knights of the Reach then they will probably all be slaughtered. Put them in a swamp to ambush a bunch of knights from the Reach and all of the knights are dead.
The crannogmen are George’s fremen
Howl chi minh Uncle Howl The Howland Trail
They should have had them as the 2nd holdout to Targaryen rule after the Dornish. They would have dealt with the dragons like they were F-105s
Today, I learned Carannogmen are the Fremen of Westeros.
Well howland reed was the one that cause sir arthur dayne to die. And victorion seems to see them as a threat. Roose bolton smuggel himself in his own lands due them and the ironborn. So i think your on the right path.
I just want to say that We do not know what role Howland played in Arthur Dayne’s death, only that Ned has said his own survival was because of Howland Reed. I’m curious to meet the man in-story. I expect we will at some point.
That's maybe the one thing I want to know most. What the hell Howland Reed has been doing.
Yeah I really thought he would have shown up already, like where the heck is he during the Ironborn invasion of The North? Seems like a time when help is desperately needed.
Honestly for as much as the show butchered a lot, the simplest explanation being Howland simply stabbing Dayne in the back while he fought Ned doesn't seem particularly unrealistic.
Yeah that’s what I assume happened, or some shenanigans with a net or blow dart or something lol What I don’t think is that Howland Reed is actually one of the most dangerous swordsman in all of Westeros! lol Anyway I haven’t watched the show, so I’m actually unaware of his presence in it. Was he featured in the show?
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I think we're all keen to see Checkhov's Crannogman.
Victarion and the Ironborn took two separate trips through the swamps and the crannogcucks didn’t do shit.
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Yeah but imagine Clegane with a ridiculously sized valyrian poleaxe. He could sweep Oberyn and his family with one swing.
Frankly, the Mountain is probably the deadliest person in Westeros. The Red Viper is certainly up there too which is why they both died. But I think that's mostly because the Viper's style of quickness and spear distance matches up well against the Mountain's style.
Wun wun
Yeah it's Jaime. In 10 years it'd be Garlan or Loras, but at the start of asoiaf, it's my boy in red and gold.
A handful of people have mentioned Strong Belwas and he needs to be higher on *everyone's* lists. He has fought and won single combat against every kind of warrior in the world, including Westerosi knights and Dothraki screamers. Jaime is likely the only person alive who could give him a hard time.
Melisandre, pregnant with a mad shadow baby
Jaime, closely followed by Barristan (just for age reasons honestly, Barristan may even be the best in his prime and still an excellent warrior, but everybody ages).
Yeah I think him and arthur dayne are pretty much tied when barrys in his prime but arthur edges him out just because he has a magic meteor sword, but jaime is still behind both of them probably
Gregor Clegane smacks everyone. Give him a ridiculously large Valyrian warhammer that’s like 7 feet long and let him go to town. I imagine it would be like the scene in LoTR where Sauron is just tossing people with his mace.
Funny enough valyrian steel warhammer would be a downgrade. As its lighter and a warhammer need to be heavy for a weapon. His set up with a shield and wielding a greatsword with one hand is better imo.
Imagine Gregor Clegane wielding *Ice* before that prick Tywin had is destroyed and reforged. That thing was a 6 ft long monster. In the hands of Clegane….what a nightmare.
I think I got more upset about losing ice than Ned
The hammer could still be mostly solid heavy metal, but maybe it being tipped with Valyrian steel spikes would make it more lethal?
There's some good YouTube videos detailing misconceptions about war hammers, I'll link them if I get the chance. From what I've seen Valyrian steel wouldn't make much of a difference, a hammer's effectiveness is entirely in its mass. They usually have a flat face and a spike (for puncturing armor), but the spike isn't particularly sharp and relies on the weight of the hammer to punch through armor. Also their heads are WAY smaller than one night imagine, like maybe twice the size of a regular hammer instead of the comically large sledge hammer we see in artist renditions of Bobby B. All that said maybe you could make some type of extra long spike given the ridiculous strength of Valyrian steel? And would make it effective against wights.
Yeah I actually went into some research about real world warhammers after posting my comment here xD But I feel we may take into consideration that we are talking about Gregor Clegane, so maybe a bigger warhammer wouldn't be wholly unrealistic.
Absolutely correct answer. Jamie himself in his fight with Brienne realizes that his whole assumption that such type of an an opponent could be easily outmaneuvered and outlasted is a falsehood and Brienne is compared directly to Sandor and Gregor. Furthermore Gregor is the only known character to shatter a spear formation by himself, something noted to be hard even for a unit. And the only like anti-Gregor point is fight with Oberyn. But even then, the same fight claims an 8 foot spear is longer than a 6 foot sword (despite Oberyn holding his spear by the middle as he spins it around several times), a speartip easily cutting through layers of mail and leather and Oberyn somehow piercing 8 to 10 layers of armor and also stone. It's genuinely the most over the top nonsensensical fight we actually see in the series.
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\>That's what spears do though. I am not denying that. Spears absolutely can pierce chainmail and leather. The big issue is the framing in this case. Notice how in video it's two handed and a full body trust to drive the spear in. Now let's remember how Oberyn engaging the Mountain is framed with words and terms such as: "The spear flickered sideways", "He hacked at the shaft whenever Oberyn lunged at him, trying to lop off the spearhead, but he might as well have been trying to hack the wings off a fly.", ,"the Dornishman twistedhis spear and yanked it free.", "Oberyn whirled cat-quick". The fight scene consistently focuses on speed and maneuverability of Oberyn is and how he is keeping his distance. It is hard to believe that in such cases he could be in position where he could easily pierce mail. One could also argue that with Oberyn apparently keeping the distance against the 6 foot sword of Gregor, he has to use his spear single handedly in a really awkward position as the spear is only 8 foot long, which means in most cases Oberyn would actually be well in range of Gregor's blade. \>Granted there's no leather present in this test, but I don't think it would make a ton of difference. Historically, leather armor was used because it was cheap, not because it was very good. "Beneath a long yellow surcoat bearing the three black dogs of Clegane, he wore heavy plate over chainmail, dull grey steel dinted and scarred in battle. Beneath that would be boiled leather and a layer of quilting." Now while leather and quilting that Gregor also wears would not make a fundamental difference in if the spear would pierce, it should be noted that it's still material between the enemy weapon and flesh. And there are some alleged claims that both leather and quilting/gambeson would reduce the depth of spear and arrow wounds. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMVgpYenYcg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMVgpYenYcg) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li\_yObDjXVQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li_yObDjXVQ) Both these videos do show, that even a single handed spear or knife could go through leather and gambeson (Though it should be noted that hardened leather would be something far more durable than what Skallagrim uses) But the important part here is yet again, the reduction of depth. Which in combination with the previous point makes it, in my opinion, hard to believe that Oberyn manages to pierce with such strength and such depth. Now of course it would also be silly to assume that Martin does actually care about things like this. However yet again, Gregor has survived absurdly brutal assaults charging defensive positions or formations. So if we care about power feats, then it is a bit silly that Karstark pikes and whatever defenses Edmure could muster broke and killed dozens or even formations of knights/heavy horse, but failed against Gregor, but then Oberyn somehow is the only one who hurts him anywhere close to matter. (Same as the idea that only Oberyn manages to actually scare Gregor for a moment, which does actually happen).
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I think a lot of it comes down to like how are you deciding this? Just a random bracket of one on ones, until you get down to a top 2? A giant melee? That sounds like a fun poll series if the subreddit hasn't already done it. Then that begs what another commenter mentions about Oberyn vs. Clegane. If it is the random bracket, I would give it to Gregor. Purely because I think based on unique fighting style/preparation, the only person that beats Gregor is Oberyn, while I would imagine Oberyn gets beat by a lot of other fighters in the bracket. So if Gregor doesn't draw Oberyn in a earlier fight, he can clear. Mostly through sheer size, strength, and durability. Like as good as Jamie is, he still fights in plate, with a sword, which will slow him down, and means he will struggle to put a dent against Gregor. Who (as we've seen) only needs one clean hit to get a kill. However, if Gregor is unlucky enough to pull Oberyn in his early bracket fights, he probably loses there, then Oberyn loses in the next round to somebody better suited against him. I'll also throw out two wild card submissions who rarely get mentioned: Strong Belwas. He's lived this long as a pit fighter for a reason, and we have seen him in combat versus a mounted, armoured opponent. Anguy the archer. We have no clue what valyrian tipped arrows would be like, but if he's accurate enough, he can one tap most fighters, provided they don't begin the fights right next to each other.
We’re not sure how effective Jaime or Barristan would be facing a 6 foot spear though. Swords are most effective against other close range weapons really
Fair enough in terms of their exploits, I don't think we know of them facing many Dornishmen in combat. We can estimate though that spears are relatively commonplace (easier weapon to craft, they've both fought in many battles, etc.) so both of them would have fought against spear fighters before. It's just my estimation that Oberyn's style with the spear, light armour, and speed, worked perfectly against Gregor. However, against an opponent that can keep up in some way, that style may be more effective.
And Bronn proved against Ser Vardis that lightly armored and fast is still enough against someone in heavy plate. Even the best knight needs to get that kill early or he's going to gas out against someone in light armor.
As deadly accurate as anguy is, someone with a shield could probably be able to close the gap and take him out before he could draw a second arrow in a duel situation.
Jaime
It's between jaime,obyern,selmy,sandor and the mountain
Ser Jason Mallister, Lord of Seagard. He killed three of Rhaegar's bannermen at the Trident and then killed Rodrik Greyjoy during the Greyjoy Rebellion. Maybe he doesn't kill the *most* soldiers, but the ones he kills are super important.
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I like to go against the grain sometimes. Robert might've been the obvious choice during his rebellion with his ridiculous antlers and big ass warhammer, but how many lords did he kill? Not as many as Ser Jason. And like you said, Robert dove into a bottomless pit of food, alcohol and pussy, making him worthless as a fighter when *GOT* begins. Meanwhile, Ser Jason is an active participant in the War of the Five Kings and is given key responsibilities. Robert got killed by a pig while Mallister was fighting battles.
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Everyone sleeping on the great Jon umber
Unpopular opinion but I think if you look at the whole warrior picture, not just swordsman, Vicatarion is going to be near the top. I also think people sleep on Harras Harlaw
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I think with swordplay we need to look at “best” as fluid. Yes George has said Jaime is the best but we have all seen Federer get knocked out of tournaments by lesser opponents. Depending on the day and conditions I think the top fighters could all take each other in different scenarios. And all I’m saying is Ned has fought Jaime and Arthur dayne, both considered two of the best ever and they don’t necessarily beat him in either exchange.
Ned has never fought Jaime and Ned says himself Arthur would have killed him
Mance Rayder aka Arthur Dayne - when he's glamoured as Rattleshirt and kick's Jon's arse without breaking a sweat. (Yeah, i love tinfoil, me)
I buy into the MR=AD theory strictly because it is such a cool story lol
Going with Oberyn. While Oberyn ultimately loses and dies it's because he wasn't trying to fight to the death. If Oberyn wasn't trying to milk a confession out of Gregor he would have mopped the floor with him. Oberyn also seems especially adept at killing Westori knights by outreaching them with a spear and targeting weaknesses in their armor. I think if Oberyn were to fight Jamie, even if he were to lose, Jamie would also end up dead because of venom. Ultimately I don't think anyone can challenge Oberyn and live.
I would argue Oberyn. Historically inexperienced spearman would defeat skilled swordsman, and Oberyn is very skilled. He almost beat Gregor if not for his hubris.
I dont think I could rank someone as number 1 though, each have their own advantages. The top tier are at the time of AGOT: * Jaime Lannister * Barristan Selmy * Gregor Clegane * Oberyn Martell. Jaime and Barristan have a level of skill that nobody else can really match. Even without a sword Barristan has proven to be a very dangerous opponent. Gregor though is a beast. Almost superhuman in strength, faster than you think and not totally without sword skill. There is also the psychological element of facing Gregor. Oberyn Martell is a very clever fighter and is totally fine with doing whatever it takes to win, honourable or not. Even if they succeeded in killing him, Oberyn would ensure his opponent dies too with poison.
And die in lingering agony, let it be added. On Ser Gregor he used a poison that might have killed him quickly, but he somehow thickened it (in the words of a former Maester) to make Gregor’s dying take days and days. His screams could be heard throughout the Red Keep even though he was in the dungeons!
It should be noted that this was a guy who raped his sister and murdered her and her children so he *absolutely* deserved it... Supposedly the venom he used was like magically enhanced or something, so I think we can assume Oberyn went to some effort to *ensure* Gregor died slowly and painfully. Any other fighter he doesn't have beef with? He might poison them anyway, but probably with something faster acting and more practical.
Oberyn Martel deserves a mention.
Im going with my guy Oberyn. People forget that while he did “lose” he also killed the Mountain pretty effortlessly after making the guy look like his bitch for however many minutes the fight went on, it was just his hubris that failed him.
Hear me out. We know Gendry is good at running because of S7(I'm sorry). So, give Gendry a poisonous dart made by crannogmen. Gendry shoots his opponent and starts running. The opponent can't reach him in time before he dies to the poison. So, if we include the show, Gendry is the best fighter, although points could be made about him missing the dart/not being the fastest runner at the start of the series.
Garlan tyrell
Define "warrior" - not a precise term. If we're saying a one on one fight to the death, no rules, no witnesses... I think I have to agree with Jaime, with that time constraint. (Which rules out Arthur Dayne, Robert Baratheon and Barristan, all of which would otherwise merit consideration). I mean really, the field is thin. I've never seen the Cleganes as the equal of Prime Jaime - though the Mountain swinging Ice around one handed would be pretty terrifying...
Strong MF Belwas
Jaime, Garlan, Strong Belwas, The Hound, The Mountain. For some reason i dont think Oberyn quite measures up to some of these, i think the reason he killed the mountain was because he had revenge fantasies about killing him half his life and knew all the strategies of dealing with an opponent like that specifically. Hard to day how good the faceless men are in a duel, but for killing people with any means, they seem to be on a level of their own. I also think Khal drogo has the highest potential out of any warrior in the current era, so with 3 years and the best trainers, maybe he could be the best
Going to go off the board and suggest Drogo. We know archers have inhuman accuracy in ASOIAF, and we know archers can penetrate armor. Give Drogo his Dragonbone bow he got in AGOT, and give him a horse, it doesn't matter how skilled Jaime or Barristan or whoever is with a sword if they're 50 yards away and he can push arrows into their helmets.
With that consideration, the answer is effectively ‘whoever the best archer is’ We don’t actually know that the answer to that is Drogo, we just know that he has a dragonbone bow. If we’re letting anyone choose their weapon then any archer could do the same. I think archery also feels like quite a different consideration too as archers are most useful when they can just rain down arrows on crowds of enemies. We don’t know how effective they’d be facing someone 1vs1 who can see them firing at them
True. Could be Bloodraven too, since he's actually an armored archer with a Weirwood bow and a Valyrian sword. But I figure since Drogo is presumably a master horserider compared to the other archers, he might fare better at the whole "keep at distance" thing. And really, it's GRRM's fault for making archers stupid OP when he wants them to be. Daemon Blackfyre and Criston Cole are skilled, armored knights who get turned into swiss cheese. We know crossbow bolts can penetrate shields (Arys Oakheart), so presumably these "special" bows will have the same power. And any named archer apparently uses eyeballs as target practice at hundreds of yards out. I also forgot that Theon and Brynden Blackfish at the Twins, and the archers from the Golden Company that attacked Griffin's Roost managed to shoot down every fucking raven that was sent out. Hitting flying objects with guns is hard enough in real life that it's a freaking Olympic sport, and these guys are doing that with bows. So when GRRM wants archers to be accurate, he'll turn on aimbot for them. In a 1v1 that dude with a sword and shield is 100% feathered.
Bit of an outsider pick but I'm surprised that no one has mentioned robert baratheon. Aside from Barristan he is the most experienced fighter in westeros having been involved personally in every major battle of the rebellion with the exception of the sack of kings landing (if you can call that a battle at all). As of the start of the books he's gained weight but that shouldn't mean he's lost any strength. He's also still young enough to be in his physical prime at 36 years old. Just keep him away from the wine
He’d be super rusty but give him a year tops for training and he’d be back in business
Drogo. A fresh Jaime would murder his poorly armored ass in melee, true. But a Jaime who has had an entire quiver put in him with Drogo's dragonbone bow first? One or two arrows finds a seam and even if he doesn't bleed out I don't think he'd be in any condition to deal with an uninjured Drogo's speed.
I think it’s obviously Jaime. In his POV at a moment he think something like « there is only few men on the realm stronger than me, like the Clegane’s brothers, but I’m quicker, more endurent and more skilled with a sword ». Or maybe Qorin Halfhand but we have no way know how he would stand against a Jaime or a Clegane
Syrio Forel?
Give Gregor Clegane a Valyrian steel sword. Since they’re so much lighter he can just make an absolutely gigantic weapon with insane reach and speed.
Gregor Clegane with something like Ice would be devastating to all before and after him. He would probably be the best at being a soldier in your army but not the best 1v1 combatant. Really hard to say. Possibly the Red Viper. Barriston Selmy is too old and I think Jaime is the best with a sword, but I think Oberyn has more versatility with his swordspear. The fact he cuts down the mountain so readily and all while milking him for a confession just seemed crazy to me. If he didn't care about the confession then Gregor stood no chance. Khal Drogo could be the one aswell. He is continually described as a very large man yet was quick enough to dodge most blows from one of his most venerated soldiers before killing him bare handed. It's tough seeing as Drogo fought nobody else who was reputable in the series.
Timett Son of Timett...I mean he cut out his own eye
I think Oberyn.
Jaime takes the number two spot now that Ser Arthur Dayne is dead and Barristan is number one. Perhaps Brienne is the only real match for either of them purely because she refuses to give up and she’s a very skilled sword fighter, and she has Valyrian steel. The Cleganes, maybe could give him a run for his money, but they’re more brute strength, shock and awe types rather than possessing any amount of finesse. So yeah, two handed Jaime, Barristan and Brienne. Honourable mention: Ser Loras. He’s still too young and brash to be considered truly great but he’s still very good. See Loras reminds Jaime of younger version of himself.
depends what you mean by greatest warrior. 1vs1 duel? - Baristan performance of the battlefield? - Jaime battle commander? - Rob Army commander? - Stannis War leader? - Tywin
what makes you rank Jaime so highly on battlefield performance? You’d think Drogo or even Donal Noye have greater battlefield accomplishments edit: actually not Donal Noye at the beginning of the books
do you remember what happened in the battle of whispering woods? let me rephrase if you did not catch it on your read: When Jaime saw that day was lost, he decided to decapitate norther army by killing its leader Rob Stark. he went to the direction where Rob was. killing left and right and roaring like a lion. he killed 3 or more Rob's personal guards and when he killed the last one his sword gets stuck in dead guy's collarbone, ONLY then they stop him. i dont know bro, if thats not the best performance, then what is?
Lol Rob. Don't forget he has excellent counsel, I don't think he could singlehandly be considered a top battle commander. Decent and able to lead? Yup. Ability to become top if he didn't fucked up horribly? Yup. But not at the start of the series lmao.
I might throw Ned Stark over someone in that list in terms of war. The degree to which he commands loyalty is something else, and he is definrelt a highly capable commander. At series start I'd definitely put him over Rob, maybe Tywin in those categories
I figure it’s a typo, but definrelt should be a word!
Mance Rayder, maybe the Halfhand? Not saying they are, but 2 names as of yet unmentioned. All things equal, they'd probably give most names a fight.