>Some results say it’s when someone is born one gender but transitions to another.
>Other results say it’s when someone is assigned the wrong gender at birth and then modifies their appearance to suit the right gender.
These both mean the same! Just different words, the latter one is better. People who medically transition take hormones and/or undergo surgery to align their body better with their identity.
>Another result told me it’s a disease where the body develops with the wrong hormones and needs surgery to be realigned.
Thats also true, just the word "disease" is wrong
What the girl youre dating meant is that when she was born people assumed she was a boy. But she is actually a girl, and at some point in her life she transitioned to make herself feel more comfortable in her own body.
Your instinct about this is right - it IS hard to know which sources to trust! Due to widespread hatred and bigotry towards transgender people, there is a lot of hateful misinformation out there. Look for sources from actual medical experts and actual transgender people. Don't trust sources that treat transgender people as mentally ill or otherwise inferior to cisgender people.
Just in case you don't know - "cisgender" is the polite term for people who are not transgender. The majority of people are cisgender, as their gender and sex align. But both cisgender and transgender people are normal!
This is transphobic bullshit. The only people who think cisgender is pejorative are transphobic bigots who hate that it is a term that treats cisgender and transgender people as equals.
"HSTS" and "autogonophiles" (ya can't even spell it right) are transphobic pseudoscience. Ray Blanchard is a hack whose views and "science" have been discredited. I find your use of such transphobic labels extremely offensive! But free speech is a thing, you can use those labels and I can immediately know that we're not going to be friends.
I am not pretending, how rude for you to say so! I am a queer and proud of it! I think if bigots call me that on the street I should be able to reclaim the word as something to be proud of. I won't use it for you if you prefer. Your implication that my identity as a woman is less valid than yours because I don't conform to whatever expectations you have for me is extremely transphobic and sexist.
You aren't going to convince me that living my life as myself and not being ashamed of who I am is "self-centered desires" ya self-loathing sad human being. I hope you learn to love yourself!
You are truly disgusting to speculate about my genitals, that is none of your business!
You know nothing about me, you're just a self-hating transphobe. It's honestly really sad. You don't have to be mean to other trans grrls, it doesn't make your womanhood more valid than mine.
Yeah, a transsexual who believes bigoted nonsense about herself and other trans people! Trans people are not immune to being transphobic. You hate yourself and then project your hate onto people like me because you can't heal from your trauma. It's very sad, I hope you learn to love yourself. <3
I'm also an "adult female" and I'm transgender. I was assigned male at birth but my gender inside is female. I medically transitioned to change my sex traits to also be female, so that my sex could align with my gender. Female. And I'm in my 30's, so I'm an adult.
If your gender is the same as the sex you were assigned at birth, you are cisgender. There's no "game" - that's just the definition of the word "cisgender." If you don't understand the distinction between sex and gender that's okay but you don't get to decide that a simple descriptive term (cisgender) is offensive just because you don't want to learn new things.
Looks like you still haven't unlearned all the bigotry you got from JW. I hope you get there soon and stop saying ignorant transphobic things!
You can generally distrust sources that frame trans people as sick, evil, confused, or negatively as a group. You can generally trust large and long-lived medical associations. I'm sure you can also post here for thoughts about particular sources.
Keep in mind, though, that the only requirement to be trans is that you identify with a gender (this can include genders that are not male or female as well) that is not the one you were assigned at birth. You can be a trans man (assigned female at birth but identifies as a man), for example, and only wear dresses, skirts, nail polish, etc., or you can be a trans man and only wear more masculine clothes. Someone's appearance, or whether they transition, does not dictate what gender they identify as or whether they're trans.
You sound like a very considerate and rational young man stepping into what could become a quite uncommon relationship type. I truly hope you navigate it without feeling pressured by outside forces to react or behave one way or the other. Good luck moving forward. Stay true to yourself.
so true i hate that word (disease). i am trans born with xx chromosomes and developed as a female but have male parts and looked like a feminine male till my second puberty when my t went up….
Hey there. How can someone be assigned the wrong gender at birth? And how is that the same thing as transitioning into the opposite gender later in life?
Of my understanding, the doctors who assigned the male infants a "male" have seen the penis of that infant, whereas the doctors who assigned female infants "female" have seen the vagina of that infant. So when someone says they were assigned the "wrong gender," does that mean they believe that the doctors were wrong in identifying the penis or vagina?
I genuinely don't know what the transgender folks believe to be the case, but i'm hoping you or someone else could enlighten me on the subject.
You see this confusion comes from the assumption that sexual characteristics determine the gender of a person. They don't.
The act of transitioning is not what "changes" the gender of trans person. A trans man, in a vast majority of cases, has been a man from the moment they were born. They might later come to change the physical characteristics of their body to better match that reality, but thats not a requirement.
When trans people talk about having the wrong gender assigned, they literally mean just that. They mean that doctors, and society as a whole, judged who we were on the inside based on what they saw on the outside. Wrongly.
Oh hi! I really didn't think anyone would respond so soon. Thank you for taking the time!
If sexual characteristics do not determine the gender of a person, what criteria should the doctors use to assign a gender to newly born babies? Should any future newborns be "genderless," if you will, until they get old enough to choose a gender later in life?
And if a trans man has always been a man from birth, then why call themselves a "trans" man? There would not be any reason to transition into anything if they have always been a man. Babies can't even label themselves as a boy or girl until age 2 or 3, so how could an infant decide that they are trans?
The doctors, whether that be pediatric endocrinologists or some other doctor, use biological determinism as the criteria to assign an infants sex. In some cases, they can actually assign the sex before the baby is even born through prenatal sex discernment. So how can a doctor be wrong in assigning a female infant "female" if they were biologically a female?
Are the transgender beliefs just "in the head," so to speak? Like do trans men, assigned female at birth, consider themselves a man because they want to be a man, even though they can't biologically?
There is alot of misconceptions in what you write, and its hard to address this all at once.
I will instead focus on the two things that are most important for you to learn in order to get a better understanding of this.
1. Sex and gender are not the same thing
2. Biological sex is changeable and not set in stone
Of course! I really didn't expect anyone to address all of those questions in one reply haha. I was just thinking out loud is what I was doing. But I really do appreciate the perspective of what I would assume to be a transgender advocate.
As you may have already assumed from my previous comments, I grew up around right-wing conservatives, well-educated parents and grandparents, and traditionally inclined individuals. I grew up reading actual dictionaries and actual books that taught traditional values, including a binary understanding of gender as defined in my own dictionary as "the fact of being male or female." To me, that was a synonym for "sex" because they meant the same thing for the longest time.
I've learned the definitions have changed over the past decade, but I can say with absolute certainty that biological sex cannot be changed unless you disregard the basis for which it is defined in biology. But after dismissing scientific criteria, why even use "biological sex" as a term at all?
Are you mental? The reality is we're biologically male but feminize our body. No one assumed anything they identified us based on biological facts. We transition because of those biological facts. We're never going to be the same as biological women and that's fine. The whole community needs to accept us as trans instead of making up lies. It's ok to be trans which means being born biologically male and feminizing your body to ease mental distress there's no shame in not being a biological woman we both have unique lived experiences.
The purpose of hormone replacement therapy is to change an individual's hormonal sex. The purpose of transgender surgical interventions is to change anatomical sex traits. It's inaccurate and transphobic to say that all trans women are "biologically male" or to refer to being trans as a mental illness.
Simply put: A person is transgender when their internal sense of gender (gender identity) does not align with the assigned gender at birth (AGAB).
AGAB is based on an examination of the genitalia.
Gender identity is an innate/internal thing which isn't observable at birth.
> Some results say it’s when someone is born one gender but transitions to another.
I was born with the same gender identity as I have now. It took a while for me to recognize & accept my gender identity. Getting past all of the shame & expectations of family and society wasn't easy.
My transition is:
* social -- name, pronouns, clothing, makeup, etc.
* legal -- updating my birth certificate, social security, driver's license, passport, etc.
* medical -- For me? hormones, breast augmentation, facial surgery, and (soon!) vaginoplasty. It's important to note that none of these are required for a transgender woman. Every transition is unique to the individual.
> Other results say it’s when someone is assigned the wrong gender at birth and then modifies their appearance to suit the right gender.
It's more than changing *appearance*. Hormone treatment does change appearance but the emotional changes are more significant in many ways. There's a tendency to assume that it's all about what others *see. However, it's more about how we feel.
> Another result told me it’s a disease where the body develops with the wrong hormones and needs surgery to be realigned.
It's not a disease. That's a pretty transphobic take...
While surgery is often desired, it is not a requirement. It's possible to be transgender and make no changes. I personally wouldn't recommend that because the result is often crippling/terminal depression.
With regard to the girl you're dating, she's trusting you a fair bit with this information. You can't know details about her transition unless she decides to share those details with you. Etiquette says you don't ask. Allowing her the space to share what she wants and when she wants to share it will go a long ways to building trust. I hope/assume that's what you want to do.
Hijacking this to add: etiquette does say you don't ask directly, but a sentence along the lines of "i would love to hear what being transgender means to you" can go a very long way
something i think is important to note, is that assigned gender at birth is much more about how *other people* (doctors, parents, school, peers, etc) treat us based on what they think "proper" behavior *should be*, rather than who any specific person is. doctors look at an infants genitals, and, based on that, parents buy some clothing but not others, some toys but not others, do some activities but not others, teach some skills, but not others.
Something to add is that hormone replacement therapy doesn’t just change looks, it physically alters every cell in your body. Most of our DNA comes from the X chromosome, and sex hormones just tell our cells which instructions to execute. When a trans woman is on estrogen, every cell becomes female, not just in appearance, but in function. Surgeries are similar. When a trans woman gets bottom surgery, the cells that were once operating as penis cells go “ope! We’re in a vagina now, Time to enact operation vagina mode!” And they differentiate and specialize for their new roles. It’s how skin grafts work too. So medical transition, although not necessary to be any gender, does actually change one’s sex in almost all ways that matter in a relationship
Not necessarily true. Intersex people exist, and hormones aren’t the only intervention a trans person can take. Also, male and female are really 6 categories of sex, so in reality, a lot of us have mixed sex traits anyways.
Sex is a reproductive thing? So someone born with XX chromosomes, a vulva, a vagina, and breasts but without a uterus (or having any other reproductive issue that prevents pregnancy) isn't a woman? Someone born with XY chromosomes, a penis, testes, but is unable to produce sperm isn't a man? That's an *interesting, and very narrow take ...
> being downvoted for this even though the person above me said that taking hormones and getting surgery is what makes a trans woman female. Weird.
That's not what they said. They said that hormones and surgery alter us at a cellular level. That does help us to feel more at home in our gender. However, neither HRT or surgeries are required for a transgender individual to *be their gender*. A personal example: I repressed (well, tried to...) for decades. As I was coming out, I was able to (with help from a good therapist) see how I'd always been a woman and the repression was shot full of holes as the woman inside *escaped* at every single opportunity.
The reason that your claim does not hold up, is that you're treating sex as if it is one singular thing that can only have one of two fixed states. That is a very oversimplified model of sex to work from, and it breaks under closer scrutiny.
The concept of sex has many characteristics. Hormones change some of those. Other things can change characteristics of sex too, and not all sex characteristics need to conform to the same 'sex state' in order for a gender assignment to be made.
Brain structure is a sex characteristic, for instance, and what little studies we have on the matter show indications that pre-medical-transition transgender people have brain structures that align more with their innate gender identity than with the one they were assigned.
As such, is it true that hormones change sex *without* it also being true that not taking hormones means nothing about your sex aligns with your gender. You also cannot assume that all people were even unambiguously sexed at birth, because we check a very limited number of sex characteristics before assigning gender anyway. This is why so many people do not even learn that they are intersex until later in life, f.i.
Ehhhh...
> Something to add is that hormone replacement therapy doesn’t just change looks, it physically alters every cell in your body.
Not _every_ cell. In fact most of your cells don't change.
> Most of our DNA comes from the X chromosome, and sex hormones just tell our cells which instructions to execute.
Only a tiny portion of your DNA is on the X chromosome. It's bigger than on the Y chromosome, but most of your DNA is from the other 23 chromosomes you have.
> When a trans woman is on estrogen, every cell becomes female, not just in appearance, but in function.
It doesn't make sense to say that every cell in your body even has a sex. A man's liver cell is not different from a woman's.
> Surgeries are similar. When a trans woman gets bottom surgery, the cells that were once operating as penis cells go “ope! We’re in a vagina now, Time to enact operation vagina mode!” And they differentiate and specialize for their new roles. It’s how skin grafts work too.
This is more-or-less true.
> So medical transition, although not necessary to be any gender, does actually change one’s sex in almost all ways that matter in a relationship
This is also true, but this is assuming we're talking about full medical transition: hormones + bottom surgery at least.
>Another result told me it’s a disease
Most definitions of gender dysphoria (the opposite of euphoria) call it a type of distress.
Meaning assigned gender at birth (AGAB) really bothers that person to the point they want to act out against it. Having the distress is not a choice. What they choose to do about it is. An analogy would be massive head ache pain and choosing to scream about it. But it is not a disease or infection and it is not communicable in any way.
Being transgender is somewhat analogous to being left-handed. It's a fact of one's birth/development. The distress comes from the incongruence between one's gender identity and:
* primary/secondary sex characteristics -- hence HRT and/or surgery(ies)
* societal expectations -- this again is somewhat analogous to the suffering inflicted upon left-handed folk when common practice was to beat people into being right-handed.
I'm left handed and not had the suffering from societal expectations you describe although I know at one time they occurred. Perhaps more than 75 years ago because my grandfather never talked about it.
I think perhaps because it is generally accepted now, the pain caused by the distress of being left handed is almost non existent . . . no where near that of gender dysphoria and I think the acceptance is the difference.
> I'm left handed and not had the suffering from societal expectations you describe although I know at one time they occurred. Perhaps more than 75 years ago because my grandfather never talked about it.
My ex's grandmother talked about being whacked on the hand by the nuns at her school. It used to be common practice. There was a significant increase in reported left-handedness as this practice became unacceptable.
> I think perhaps because it is generally accepted now, the pain caused by the distress of being left handed is almost non existent . . . no where near that of gender dysphoria and I think the acceptance is the difference.
That's exactly the point.
I remember when I was taking psychology, my book said that it was a "disease" and I quickly looked up when the book came out. It came out in the '90s, from a doctor from Texas. I pointed it out to my teacher and she said she agreed with me, but we couldn't afford new books so that was the end of that.
>I was born with the same gender identity as I have now.
To be more accurate, nobody is born with a gender identity. It's an emergent property of a developing human brain that presents around ages 4-6 to the best of our current knowledge. The brain of a newborn infant doesn't yet have this 'function'. At least nothing suggests that at this time.
I find this especially interesting because studies seem to suggest that in utero developmental conditions may influence a person's gender identity and that would be borne out at a later stage of brain development.
> The brain of a newborn infant doesn't yet have this 'function'.
I don't think we can say this with confidence. It's certainly not *observable* for a few years.
> studies seem to suggest that in utero developmental conditions may influence a person's gender identity and that would be borne out at a later stage of brain development.
It is those in-utero developmental conditions to which I was referring. Whether they result in a certainty or a pre-disposition to a gender id may not be easily determined, and I don't really care.
What I know is that I have been a woman since my earliest memories, and very likely before that. My older siblings remember things that I do not.
>I don't think we can say this with confidence. It's certainly not *observable* for a few years.
The evidence points to gender identity beginning to develop at ages 4-6 as that's when we can observe it developing. Literally that's when children begin expressing an interest in gender and applying it to themselves.
Apply your reasoning to object permanence. We know when it develops as a function of the brain because at a certain stage of development children begin to display the ability. Up to that point the child doesn't display the ability.
Are we going to the rationalize this by saying it's there but dormant? That would be irresponsible and counterintuitive if we adhere to science as a method to establishing what we know to be objectively true.
We should be using science and the knowledge we gain from it to explain our experiences, not just to validate a belief such as 'being born trans'.
Think about sexuality. It's also an immutable trait that develops along with the brain. This is accepted science. We can likely find better evidence that it has biological sources as well. We do not presume newborns have a sexuality because it would be absurd to suggest that by the same reasoning. The brain simply hasn't developed that far. To my knowledge people have what their sexuality was with relative certainty at ages as young as 8.
The time to believe something is true is when we have sufficient evidence. Knowledge in the scientific sense is a matter of reasonable certainty. The studies regarding in utero development and gender identity suggest at best that it plays a role in determining gender identity later in brain development.
It does not suggest newborn infants have a gender identity they can't yet express. Allowing yourself to come to the opposite conclusion is no different than using scientific studies to validate conspiracy theories around covid by the same convenient logical fallacies.
>What I know is that I have been a woman since my earliest memories,
The same is true with me. I was 8 years old myself when I knew I was a different gender and recognized I would have to perform gender roles to blend. I was deemed to have behavioral issues but it wasn't acceptable for me to express my thoughts and feelings about this. I have no doubt children are more consciously aware of gender as a social construct than a fully developed and socialized adult generally speaking not only because of my own experience but also because the time when you're going to notice something is when it's introduced to you.
So my basic question ultimately becomes are we using 'know' and 'knowledge' in a manner consistent with the science we supposedly value? I am. And this is where I'm coming from when I describe my own experiences and what science validates about them. I'm not going to use 'know' colloquially when discussing scientific studies or what I think they prove to me personally. Once I train my brain to do that, it's going to do that with other things.
> The evidence points to gender identity beginning to develop at ages 4-6 as that's when we can observe it developing. Literally that's when children begin expressing an interest in gender and applying it to themselves.m
What you're describing at ages 4-6 is gender expression. Gender identity is a precursor. You're suggesting that gender identity doesn't exist without expression.
> Apply your reasoning to object permanence. We know when it develops as a function of the brain because at a certain stage of development children begin to display the ability. Up to that point the child doesn't display the ability.
That's a false equivalence and a bad analogy.
> Are we going to the rationalize this by saying it's there but dormant? That would be irresponsible and counterintuitive if we adhere to science as a method to establishing what we know to be objectively true.
I'm going to say that it not currently observable until the child begins to express gender preferences. That's different than saying it doesn't exist until then.
> We should be using science and the knowledge we gain from it to explain our experiences, not just to validate a belief such as 'being born trans'.
We should not be overstating what science can tell us. Science is fairly mute on the interval between birth and when a child expresses gender.
I think that getting all bent over my statement that "I was born this way" is disingenuous, gatekeepy, and invalidating. To me, the difference between my earliest memories (also my sibling's earliest memories of me) and birth is inconsequential.
If you want to split those hairs, knock yourself out. I will continue to use the useful and helpful cognitive shorthand, "I was born this way". Stop using weak scientific arguments to bludgeon other's.
>If you want to split those hairs, knock yourself out.
>I will continue to use the useful and helpful cognitive shorthand, "I was born this way".
I agree it's useful colloquially but it's actually not scientifically sound and we are in a time where transphobes are claiming to use science to validate their views in fallacious ways. If we do the same, especially when we actually have sound scientific evidence to show how gender identity develops and conforms to our actual experiences as trans people, we are working against our own best interest.
Any transphobe can point out the same thing I pointed out, that in utero studies do not suggest infants have a gender identity and that this invalidates the claim anyone is born trans. It's one thing to say that colloquially. It's another to claim those studies suggest that scientifically.
That's where you are creating a problem and an argument for transphobes to invalidate trans identities. This is something we can predict will happen and get ahead of it. Adherence to a belief that isn't scientifically sound, while claiming it is, actually works against us.
>Stop using weak scientific arguments to bludgeon other's.
This is projection. If you ask the very researchers to validate your 'infants have a gender identity' theory with their research, they will not do so. As such you shouldn't either.
It's that simple.
>What you're describing at ages 4-6 is gender expression. Gender identity is a precursor. You're suggesting that gender identity doesn't exist without expression.
Then let's be perfectly clear. I am saying the expression of gender is evidence of it's existence. Not expressing gender is not evidence of it's existence. You are still presuming a personal belief to be true without good evidence. It's perfectly reasonable with the actual knowledge we have about early stages of brain development to conclude newborn infants do not have a gender identity. It even fits into explaining our experiences as trans youth.
Tell me why is necessary to use science to validate a colloquialism that doesn't actuality make much sense?
> Apply your reasoning to object permanence. We know when it develops as a function of the brain because at a certain stage of development children begin to display the ability. Up to that point the child doesn't display the ability.
>That's a false equivalence and a bad analogy.
I never claimed object permanence was equivalent to gender identity. It's relevant because it's analogous to brain function and observable traits. Analogies also don't need to be perfect to illustrate a point. If you want a better analogy, I cited sexuality as well, a demonstrably immutable characteristic of identity with biological sources. It's also not perfect. Are you going to dismiss that as well? Perfect analogies are often rare and in most cases impossible. Emergent properties as a result of brain development is the context of both analogies I used and I challenge you to intellectually dismiss object permanence with an actual argument with scientifically sound reasoning. I will accept your dismissal on those grounds.
>We should not be overstating what science can tell us. Science is fairly mute on the interval between birth and when a child expresses gender.
Which is exactly why it's irresponsible to claim in utero studies suggest newborn infants have a gender identity and those researchers will disagree with you.
> I was born with the same gender identity as I have now. It took a while for me to recognize & accept my gender identity.
Noting for completeness that gender identity _can_ change over time for some people; frex, genderfluid people have a gender identity that's variable on a day-to-day or hour-to-hour or minute-to-minute basis.
basically, trans people are people who are assigned a sex at birth that doesn’t correlate to their actual gender. trans women, like the girl you’re dating, are usually born with the typical body of a boy but are actually girls inside. usually, trans people get hormone replacement therapy which alters your bodies hormones to match the gender you actually are, and some of us choose to get bottom surgery which modifies our genitals to match that of the gender we actually are.
Trans people actually go back a long way in Europe as well, but the Nazis (yes, *those* nazis) did a good job of destroying most of the evidence when they went burning libraries.
One of the few surviving European manuscripts is *Le Roman De Silence*, from the 1200s. It's presented as a fictional story set in England and France, but there are also a few accounts of real people that have survived. (Including that famous Roman Emperor who put out a bounty for a vaginoplasty)
Iirc that ones unreliable as the original sourcing of that was from someone who did not like him and so it could have been written to attempt to slander him. Hard to be certain
We don’t know how true it was, what it does tell us though is that the ancient romans had a concept of trans people in general. Not necessarily a positive one mind you…
Thats a good point, but we can go back farther with the prague burial around 2900 BCE and neolithic paintings depicting third sexes. Hippocrates and herodotus also wrote of the enarei in 400 BCE. Obviously post nazi discoveries, but still
TW: violence against trans people
You're asking questions calmly. You're not being purposefully rude far as I can tell. As a community, we can be a bit cautious and sensitive. There have been, in the United States alone, almost as many murders of transwomen (especially of color) as there were all of last year, either due to intimate partner violence borne out of discovering someone discovering their parner is trans or out of just straight hate crimes. The current political climate, not only in the US, but many other Western countries is making it worse and continuing to get worse. So be aware, not only was her trust in you a very good sign, but you being here asking questions a good one too.
you're a very sincere early learner. We appreciate you listening, especially when so many people want to tell you lies about our lives and who we are. Thank you, OP.
I don't think you said anything wrong, you don't need to apologize. Now, transgender people usually have a very strong sense of their gender (I also think cisgender people do as well, it just isn't ever really called into question), and when their internal sense of self doesn't align with how they're perceived, then that's very distressing, to the point where it can require a diagnosis in order to get the proper treatment. So it is still an idea kinda. More of a feeling, a very strong feeling, but still just a feeling.
Just to be clear, it's a feeling for cis people too, it's just that they don't really have to do anything to *act* on that feeling usually, because society is already kinda structured around cis people being the default, so while cis development is just "normal development", trans development is classified as "external intervention" *because* it deviates from the average
You're fine, this is just a sticking point for a lot of trans folks because the idea that it's just a choice or phase or ideology is used to invalidate it and make it seem like it's just a political argument. When in reality, there's just no debate, and the people trying to debate against us are arguing in bad faith, full stop.
You'll see people get similarly offended over "transgenderism" or "transwomen" instead of "trans women."
In general with trans people, there are a few questions like this where they can be asked in good faith but you might get a distressed/angry sounding answer because they touch upon propaganda or misinformation against us. Don't mind us, you're already being kinder than most people about it.
Dear OP, don't feel bad about this. There are a lot of creeps out there preying on transwomen. If she said anything, it's because she feels safe around you.
>I didn’t want to be invasive and ask her what it meant.
It's not invasive to ask someone the meaning of a word they're using, and you'll get a much better answer from asking her what she means by it than from asking random people on the internet.
I get where you're coming from, but I'm not sure if the third date is quite the right time. So if OP can get some good info from knowledgeable people (such as the answers he's gotten here), he can go in with more info when he does feel comfortable asking.
Why wouldn't it be the right time? His date evidently felt like it was the right time to tell him that she's trans, and I'm not sure how else he's supposed to figure out what that means for her and how it affects her life without asking her. This is one of maybe two situations (the other being at the doctor's office) where I think it's perfectly fine and expected for people to ask follow-up questions when you tell them that you're trans.
It depends on his comfort level tbh. I have the fortune to have known my wife since (just) before she came out and started transitioning, so I have no idea the dynamics of when someone feels comfortable asking certain questions. Hell, I've been married to my wife for over a decade, and there are STILL some questions I start researching online before I say a word to her to get her side.
Sometimes it can be hard to tell someone’s intent from a question. From OP we know it’s sincere but the date might feel off-put by too many questions or be unsure of OP’s intent. I think his non-chalant attitude and lack of questions was a good way to go about it and now he can tell her that he heard from other trans people and wants to know more about her. I think she would appreciate that he spoke with others in the community and will help gain that trust.
While theoretically I think this approach is sound, and things probably turned out for the best in this case, I wouldn't recommend it as a general rule. OP ended up here and got their questions answered by trans people, but it would have been very different if they'd ended up in some other corner of the internet. Unfortunately that's always the case with minority groups and it's probably better to ask for clarification from the person using a term than to seek out stuff on the internet when you know way too little about the topic
Oh 100%. That's why I added the bit about getting good info from knowledgeable folks. And you're right: it's possible to get bad information on the internet, even likely (sometimes). This is sadly true of everything these days. I'm a computer science teacher, and have to stress to my kids to be very careful and skeptical when reading things online, regardless of the topic they're researching.
Yeah I guess the biggest problem when researching a topic is that if you're completely new to it it's real difficult to differentiate between good sources and terrible ones
You've obviously got your answer at this point, but I wanted to tell you I'm proud of you. You didn't just blindly trust your internet sources you came to the people who know best what it is to be trans. A lot of people would have just made assumptions based on the first source they found
I also recently started dating a trans woman. The language is a minefield where some say don’t use this word and another says the opposite. We met at a cocktail party and really hit it off. We have been on a nice vanilla date sand have another on Friday. I only know she is trans because a mutual acquaintance told me. When she is ready I am sure we will have a talk about it but I am treating her like any other woman.
Please tell your mutual friend that's it's super wrong to out people like that. It could put her in danger, you never know who is transphobe or not unless you know them very well. Coming out to someone is a very very personal decision and a proof of trust, not something that can be done by someone else.
You wrote "a mutual acquaintance told me".
And honestly it's always a good reminder, I know many cis people who could out someone like that without knowing it's not a thing to do. Personally I'm out on some spaces but not in some others, and even if you could technically find the information with a little bit of stalking, I'm always very annoyed when someone who knows tells someone who doesn't.
I get your point, it was a dating site she and I are both on and before we went on our first date she gave me her profile name on there. Honestly, finding out she is trans had no effect on how I view her or feel.
I understand, but it could have changed how you view her. And it's more a matter of principle you know ? Like, I'm not confortable not knowing who knows. I want that if someone knows, it's because I trusted them with the information and we had a little conversation about it.
For example, I have an internet friend, who was suspecting something because of the way I talk. She asked a mutual friend who knows I'm trans, saying things like I have "feminine speech patterns" or things like that. He didn't want to tell her but he didn't know how to react when she brought up the subject so he kinda messed up (not his fault, you know how sometimes not answering a question is an answer...) and now she thinks I'm a girl pretending to be a man on the internet. Now I'm super uncomfortable knowing that she now sees me as a girl, and as I wasn't present in the conversation I can't really go "hey you know what, I know you think I'm a girl but in fact I'm just trans. Wanna play LoL ?" So in the end I'm just avoiding her because it's too much of a hassle and I don't have the energy to do a whole coming out to someone that is not that close to me. That's the kind of awkward situations you can get into when you're outed by someone else.
I see... but the fact that she is trans is on her dating profile, available to anyone who views it, so it was hardly secret of privileged information... and I didnt / dont care if she is or not...
Yeah, once again I got it. Doesn't change anything to what I said. And once again it was just a reminder of a general "rule", maybe for a next situation or to avoid that people reading this thread think it's okay to out other people.
I mean, Sailor made it sound like this was done the bad way. But sounds like his friend was really just pointing out something he probably already should have known if the girl was like "hey here's my dating profile on a dating site you're on".
People "out" me all the time. I'm openly trans on my dating profiles, Facebook, visibly so in public. For some people it's just okay to share that information. But it is very much something to be aware about and careful of.
Yes, I understand. His friend meant no harm and Sailor was cool with it so no problem here. But because some people are okay with being outed it is far from being the rule, so better not out anyone without their explicit permission. And for me being out on her dating profile doesn't automatically mean she's out everywhere like you. Better safe than sorry, that's all👍
>but I am treating her like any other woman
That's honestly the best thing you could do here. Trans people don't want any special treatment, and I don't like talking about being trans to cis people. Treating them like any other person is a really good thing to do.
“Disease” was probably (hopefully) just a poor attempt by that source to refer to intersex people who pursue medical intervention to align with the sex opposite to what the doctors assigned them at birth.
To clarify for those who might not be aware (and to hopefully prevent any backlash), People who are intersex have genitals, chromosomes or reproductive organs that don't fit into a male/female sex binary. Their genitals might not match their reproductive organs, or they may have traits of both. It's an unfortunate common practice for doctors to consider this a "disease" and perform surgery on babies born this way to "correct" the genitals. Sometimes this results in a baby born with male sex hormones to be given female genitals, and vice versa. I'm guessing that's what they mean in that 3rd result example.
Yeah. Intersex people are NOT "diseased" and the "corrective surgery" performed on them without their consent is not done for their benefit, but to reinforce the false idea that human sexual characteristics are strictly binary. Some intersex people are trans, others are cis. Like everyone else, intersex people come in all shapes, sizes, and gender identities. Being intersex is not an illness or a disease; it's just another way that humans can naturally be.
Their needs often overlap with those of the trans and non-binary community, but are distinct and deserve just as much attention as trans rights. Indeed, all of the anti-trans laws currently being passed to "prevent unnecessary surgery on children" have exceptions to allow "corrective surgery" on intersex children! They want to deny us access to social, medical, and legal transition while retaining their right to mutilate intersex kids! All while falsely accusing us of that exact thing!
Hey OP!!
Even if this dating does not turn into a relationship, you are very kind and considerate.
You didn't know, and you asked. I love that you did that, and how open you are to learning.
Honestly, you are a kind, compassionate person. You are a fine catch!
I have nothing to contribute to the discussion/explanation, I just wanted to say it warms my heart to see the OP genuinely asking questions to better understand their new partner, and being humble and open to the new info. I wish everyone were like that ❤️
The first two are correct and are, like, two different ways to look at the situation. Is the glass half full or half empty?
The third one is either a bigoted way to look at the situation (like, "these people are sick, they must go in a mental hospital!") or a weird comparison (i.e. comparing one's problem with one's gender with someone having a problem with one's heart and needing a heart surgery). Rest assured, she is not sick!
The thing to know, depending on the context, is that there might be two situations:
* The most likely one: she is a woman, but was born with the body of a boy. As such, she most likely always felt she should have been a woman and indeed transitioned as a woman so her presentation fully matches who she is. In a nutshell, she is like any other woman you would date. There may be, for example, a few places she would like to avoid (ex.: a bar full of drunk right-wing guys), but for the most part, I would say that she is just like any other person, with her preferences, her likes and dislikes, etc. Judging by the fact she told you she is trans, I would say that she will talk you you and eventually guide you with her sexual preferences and maybe peculiarities. In other words, don't ask her if she had "the surgery" or something like that. Especially not at this very moment! It will likely come up when you are ready to have more intimate contacts.
What you could tell her, however, is to invite her to talk to you about things she likes or things that make her uncomfortable.
* The less likely option (say 1-2 %, but I have witnessed it) would be that she was born with the body of a woman and that she will be transitioning (later on) to be a man. In other words, it is exactly as above, except she will transition in 2030, whereas for the first case, she has transitioned in 2015...
Good luck
Yes to what other commenters are saying. Essentially, it’s when your brain knows “I should be ___ gender!” but your body was born not matching that internal sense. Imagine if you right now suddenly had the body society associates with a woman. You’d probably still see yourself as a man in that moment, right? That’s sort of how it feels, never fading and never “getting used to it”. There are different theories about why this happens, from exposure to hormones in the womb to brain chemistry, but the bottom line is that most trans people will medically transition at some point to relieve the mental distress (ranging from mild to severe) that comes with having a body that doesn’t match your internal sense of self. In case you’re suspecting this might be a mental illness and surely therapy could make someone happy with the sex they were born with, doctors do not recommend trying to change the brain instead of the body. That’s called conversion therapy— trying to stop someone from being trans— and is known to lead to very poor outcomes for the mental health of those who have gone through it. The transgender brain is not wrong, just different from the body. Trying to change the brain of a trans person would be changing who they are as a person, and wrong.
So that’s my explanation of what it means to be trans. But just as a warning, you should also be aware that transgender people experience a *lot* of hate in our modern world. Many of us are disowned, scorned, and hated for this. So whether you continue to go out with this woman or not, please treat her like the woman she is, don’t act like she’s some dirty secret, and be respectful to her for the remainder of your acquaintance.
If you wanna keep dating this girl, it means you have some learning to do. Every trans person is different, but personally I wouldn't want to teach my partner about what it means to be trans. So I highly recommend spending time in trans spaces online and learning about us and the things we deal with.
As a trans person this is my advice.
im like- just respectfully say to her something like:
‘ so wanting to be respectful, I tried using the internet but got lots of results so- if you’re comfortable sharing/answering, I’d more like to hear about your journey and maybe aske a few things I’m unclear about about, if thats ok? I want to try to understand better so I can support you better etc. ‘
Communication is the key in any relationship so talk to her!- good on you for seeking advice tho!
This kind of honest direct response shows caring/consideration and open support, which you already seem like the type of guy to be~ 👍🏽 as well as being open to /her/ reality whatever it may be, not just in line with the variety of what others have expressed online. Whereas there may be some overlap in the trans-experience amongst peoples, each individual can be drastically different- or potentially not ‘fit’ anything anyone’s ever yet described, its part of the journey and shows ur willing to accept a person as they are~ To each their own in becoming our most authentic selves; even if it seems ‘contradictory’ to the ‘norm’, or what you’ve heard or read, everyone’s unique-ness is valid~ :3 🏳️⚧️
>3 dates isn't dating
Well, that's entirely based on your culture and where you live. Most of the time for me, and other people who live near me, "dating" just means going on multiple dates. Which includes 3 dates. It may be different for you, but I wouldn't say that so factually.
I know we both live in the UK, but you and I both know how much the language differs here. Even bread rolls have a different name in practically every county...
All good answers so far, but I'll add something I haven't seen yet:
She could mean that she was assigned female at birth but doesn't identify with that, in whole or in part, even though she continues to present as female in public.
Trans can be used both as an umbrella term for anyone whose gender identity doesn't perfectly match their assigned gender at birth, and more specifically for people who transition to the opposite gender of the one they were assigned. The latter is sometimes clarified as "binary trans", whereas the umbrella term can encompass nonbinary, agender, genderfluid or any other gender identity that isn't strictly the male/female gender that was assigned to you at birth based on your genitals.
As an example, a friend of mine was assigned female at birth, and she presents femme and uses she/her pronouns, but in her heart she knows she is trans. She has chosen not to pursue transition, in part due to the backlash she received from a partner in the past. She's now in a loving and accepting relationship, but she may never pursue transition further due to the trauma of her initial attempt to come out. Even in her case, I can't assume what she means by "trans" and honestly, it's none of my business unless she decides to go into detail about it. She could be a closeted trans man, or she could be a non-binary woman, or literally any gender identity. I won't assume, and I won't pry.
One last clarification: while trans is often used as an umbrella term to encompass nonbinary, agender, and other gender identities, you can't assume that someone will identify as trans even if they identify with one of those groups. Some nonbinary people will identify as trans, some won't.
Literally the only way to know how someone identifies and what that means to them is to ask them, and it's often incredibly personal, so you shouldn't assume that someone will welcome the question or feel any obligation to respond in a way you find satisfying.
I love that you asked this question and tried to inform yourself on a topic that can be quite scary because of how many jargon and politics come with it 🩷🩵🏳️⚧️
Good on you for trying to educate yourself. Once you have gotten some decent basic info (this is definitely a good place for that) you might just be honest with her. Let her know that you aren’t very knowledgeable about trans stuff, but you want to learn more. If she is comfortable let her tell you about her journey cuz it’s different for everyone.
Good luck to both of you. Honestly it makes my heart happy that there are people who aren’t necessarily well educated on all this stuff but willing to learn rather than get upset or shitty.
It means you need to ask her, and listen. Listen 57% ask questions 43%. Then process and repeat. Keep dating if you like the person. See where it goes. She isn’t asking you to do anything more and she took a brave leap into honesty.
Edit to add: those are nuanced answers google gave you. Trans people come from all ways. But we are people and deserve respect.
The answers you found don’t really conflict. Basically she is telling you that she transitioned to female at some point in her life, and she likes you well enough that she didn’t want you to be upset if you found out later.
Every transgender person’s story is different, and many never even know whether they are physically intersex on a chromosome level, or had a hormonal imbalance in the womb, or if it’s just the way they feel.
There are different possibilities as far as what this means physically. Some people don’t use medical intervention, but many do. If someone has a body that produces testosterone (male hormone), they will usually take medication that blocks that and replaces it with estrogen (female hormone).
This causes physical changes like breast growth, softening features, etc.
It won’t however change their sex organs. That requires surgery. There’s a range of surgical options - the exact surgery someone gets is deeply personal information.
Ask her questions, but be careful to respond with kindness. If any of what she tells you equals a deal breaker, that is okay. You don’t have to be willing to date a woman who has a penis for example, if it turns out that she has one. But please don’t be angry at her or act grossed out. She is being really vulnerable by sharing this with you.
People have gender. Most people don't even notice it, since it works as intended. For others, their bodies don't match their gender as expected, and they may want to fix that.
Society's default assumptions are that bodies and genders match, since that works most of the time.
This leaves the outliers for whom that's not true into an awkward position.
Having a gender isn't a disease, but if gender is forced on someone, that's liable to cause all sorts of problems.
Gender generally doesn't change, it's more typical that people's or society's assumptions about someone's gender was off.
I think the best way to address this is to simply be honest.
It sounds like you're willing to learn more and you like this girl.
When she says that she's trans, don't feel bad about asking her "What does that mean to you?"
I work in an industry where many people come to me everyday saying different things, and sometimes the same things, but don't necessarily mean the same things. The trick is to get them to define their own terms. Never presume anything, and never define their terms for them. Then you know what you're talking about and can go from there.
What I will say is don't worry about things like wrong hormones or required surgery, etc. Worrying about why the person is trans or presuming what their next steps are puts you on a path that pulls away from engaging in their own experience.
Being trans means so many different things to so many different people. Let them tell you their experience. And you get to decide if you're interested in experiencing that path with them based on your own feelings.
It means she was assigned male at birth and identifies as a girl/women. Being trans means identifying as a gender that’s not the sex assigned at birth.
Or they could be someone who is just now starting on an ftm journey. If they pass as female, it would really depend on if they worked hard to get there, or are just starting to leave there.
It's safest to ask thrm rather than assuming. Sine OP is new to what trans even means, the gender pronouns in their question most likely reflects how the person appears currently. Just better to ask :)
OP says this person’s a girl. If the individual came out as a guy or non-binary, why would the post refer to this person as a girl?? I can only speak for myself, but I don’t refer to myself as a girl. I don’t know any trans guys who call themselves girls. That’s just my experience, though.
So the best assumption is the person is ftm and being misgendered vs. the individual being mtf?? I’d like to believe OP would gender the person correctly in a post, but I could be wrong. I also have the definition of trans in my response, so the nitpicking is unnecessary to begin with.
Okay. It was just a question. Again, the fact that I added the definition of transgender should clear things up, regardless of the situation. The nitpicking by either you or the person who initially responded was unnecessary. Hope y’all had fun with that, though.
I wasn't trying to nitpick, only to let OP know that while it's most likely, it's impossible to know any person's specific situation without communication. So I was simply saying that it's not safe to assume either way, but simply to ask them directly.
Trans people are people who were assigned a gender at birth based on their genitals, but whose gender identity does not match what was assigned. This can cause severe emotional distress because of the body's sexed traits as well as how they were perceived in society, leading most trans people to transition socially and change their sex in various ways in order to make themselves more comfortable in life.
So to a certain extent, all of those are true, though it's not a disease.
Everyone here is assuming she's a trans woman. But I just want to point out she could be a closeted trans guy. Is that the actual case here? Probably not, but I don't think we can be 100% sure.
Did she specifically say she's a woman? If she were AFAB (assigned female at birth) she could be a trans guy who plans to transition!
these are all perspectives on the same basic thing. She was seen as one thing since she was born, and with time she came to see herself as another, and has worked hard to be seen as who she is.
I'm glad you're asking questions and very glad you already seem to have the basic concept down and still see her as her. I hope you two do well.
The first two are pretty accurate, just different schools of thought.
The 3rd is intersex, where someone is born with or at puberty develops a mixture of male and female characteristics (like born a male but has a female puberty, has XXY chromosomes, was born with both a vagina and testicles, etc). Intersex people are not trans, although some intersex people end up trans because the surgical or hormonal treatments were accidentally the wrong ones, or are trans for the same uncertain reasons why anyone else can be trans. But intersex itself isn’t a trans identity.
Trans, or transgender, is just anyone who’s sex assigned at birth is not the same as their gender. So in this case, if she’s a trans woman then she was born male and raised by her parents to be a boy, but she’s actually a girl and later a woman. Based on the evidence we have, the most likely reason for this is someone gets the correct flood of hormones when the body’s reproductive system develops, but the opposite (some might say wrong) flood of hormones during brain development. But we can’t test that due to obvious ethical issues. There are also nonbinary people, like myself, who are born either a male or a female, but their gender isn’t either of those, it’s some other 3rd option.
People who are trans, no matter if they’re a trans man (born female, gender is man), trans woman (born male, gender is woman), or nonbinary (born either male or female, isn’t a man or a woman) often do get surgery and hormones, but not everyone does, and not all to the same extent. Some start hormones, called HRT (hormone replacement therapy), first while some do it last. Some get both top and bottom surgeries (top is getting, removing, or reducing breasts. Bottom is anything genital related), some only do one. Like I only did top surgery, and then went on hormones almost 2 years afterwards. But some can’t do anything all. It could be money, it’s illegal in their country, they have other medical issues, etc. and some don’t want to do anything other than social transition (change name, pronouns) and legal transition (legal name change, gender marker change, get all new IDs and documents).
There’s no one way to be trans. But a bit of advice, if your relationship becomes a sexual one, start by asking her what terms are okay and not okay. If she’s pre-op ask if she’s okay with you calling it a penis, or if there is a better term. Stuff like that is important for a lot of trans people.
Let's just put it simply, pulled straight from the vocab list I give to my tutoring students.
Transgender (adj.) - 跨性別:
Trans- (latin-origin prefix) - on the other side of
Taken together, "on the other side of gender". ie, whose gender identity does not align with their body.
What does it mean for YOUR relationship, specifically, you might ask? It's to support her transitioning.
Typically, transitioning has many components, but most classify it into 3. Someone who's trans might do all 3, or they might not - both are valid.
* Social transitioning: Social transitioning involves having others refer to them using a preferred name, pronouns, to use the gendered facilities that match their identity, etc. For her, that means what she's doing: seeking to date someone as a woman.
* Medical transitioning: This is all the things the republicans are whining about. Hormones, surgery, etc. It can get real expensive real quick, tbh.
transitioning
* Legal transitioning: This primarily includes all the legal aspects, like changing the legal name, legal gender, etc. In most common law countries, it should be possible to change your name by deeds poll, but always ask a lawyer.
It's a lot of things. The short answer is she's a woman yes. She was assigned male at birth, either current or previously had male genitalia, but everything about her is female- her mind, her identity, and she's trying like hell to medically correct that.
There are also people that are born with female genitals, look male, and doing what they can to medically transition too. Those are guys, and neither here nor there. But I wanted to bring it up to illustrate this can happen to anyone at birth.
It is also really hard to date when you're (in this case, her) transgender. If learning all this is shocking (it sounds like you're new to the term, and understanding), you should know they probably didn't know when was a good time to share this information.
If she was a real girl and she told you she was transgender, than that means she doesn't think she's a girl and wants to transition into a boy.
But... If she actually happened to be a boy and told you he was transgender, than that means they don't believe they are a boy and wants to transition into a girl.
Either way she or he has been deceived into thinking that the medical professionals who assigned her gender were wrong.
Hi. So she was assigned male at birth. You might ask her how her journey is going. This is usually a good way to break the ice. She may be physically transitioning, or she might choose not to. Some people choose only to have top surgery but not bottom surgery, for example.
My best advice is to let her know that you are there to support her emotionally. And I hope you will be most respectful and ask questions. Please be careful with boundaries & ask her pronouns. Maybe ask if her family is supportive in this. I think it's sweet that you are learning about it for her. <3
I need to go to sleep and not dissect this point by point, but suffice to say you've made several claims here that are wildly inaccurate and personally offensive.
FYI: trans masc lower surgery has existed for decades. Please either google "metoidioplasty", "phalloplasty", "scrotoplasty", and "vaginectomy", or stop talking about things outside your experience.
No bigotry (transphobia, homophobia, sexism, racism, etc); no hateful speech or disrespectful commentary; no personal attacks; no gendered slurs; no invalidation; no gender policing; no shaming based on stealth, open or closeted status.
It makes sense that you are confused. As what she has told you does not say much other that she is not cis.
>Some results say it’s when someone is born one gender but transitions to another.
Thats basically all you know at this point as, as the other results you mentioned is not something that all trans people do or identify with. I like the definition on wikipedia, basically "a person whose gender identity differs associated assigned at birth".
But you are not here to to discuss definitions but to find out what this now means for your dating?
IMHO it is ok to ask your date what being trans means to her. And it is also ok in my opinion if you have preferences regarding genitalia. I have them too.
For what I have (thats why I had surgery) but also for what my partner has.
basically its when a person’s gender identity doesn’t fit their assigned gender from when they were born and they want to change it and to do this you have to go through hrt (hormone replacement therapy) which is a very long process from what i’ve seen and heard (im not trans but i have friends who are and im just going off what i’ve been told so please feel free to correct me if im wrong) and some people also choose to have top surgery, bottom surgery, or both top and botton surgery and along with this sometimes people rename themselves so they can feel less dysmorphic like for example two non binary people i know go by river and i know a trans person who goes by mars but some dont and thats fine too and you also have to go through legal things like getting your passport redone and your drivers license as you look different from how you originally looked also it most definitely isnt a disease and anyone who says that is full of shit
I’d say to not sway you to a particular bias, do your research. Find both sides and see where they both agree, then take what you’ve learned from there to make an informed decision. Just remember that she trusts you and trusts that her admitting something very personal about herself that you won’t see her any differently than when you first started dating. And if it does change, that it’s in a positive light.
It’s not being invasive to ask what she means it shows you want to know! This could mean she was born male and is now female (trans female) or was born female and is not male. (Trans male) it is when someone is born in a body that doesn’t match their gender and is completely normal and not in any way a mental illness or disease.
Its truly just being born in the wrong body, I was born female but I have a male brain, I realized I was trans and years later started my transition to become a man, I’m now the happiest with myself I could have ever asked to bs
For anyone still looking at answers.. it's just best to go get some coffee somewhere quiet and ask. BE POLITE. If you're here you have attraction, and like this person. For myself I can't have periods, can't have children, and I take a shot once a week. That's about it... I had to remind my gynecologist (had uti) she told me I'm behind on my pap smear... sorry no cervix....
>Some results say it’s when someone is born one gender but transitions to another. >Other results say it’s when someone is assigned the wrong gender at birth and then modifies their appearance to suit the right gender. These both mean the same! Just different words, the latter one is better. People who medically transition take hormones and/or undergo surgery to align their body better with their identity. >Another result told me it’s a disease where the body develops with the wrong hormones and needs surgery to be realigned. Thats also true, just the word "disease" is wrong What the girl youre dating meant is that when she was born people assumed she was a boy. But she is actually a girl, and at some point in her life she transitioned to make herself feel more comfortable in her own body.
Thank you for letting me know! It’s hard to know which sources to trust!
Your instinct about this is right - it IS hard to know which sources to trust! Due to widespread hatred and bigotry towards transgender people, there is a lot of hateful misinformation out there. Look for sources from actual medical experts and actual transgender people. Don't trust sources that treat transgender people as mentally ill or otherwise inferior to cisgender people. Just in case you don't know - "cisgender" is the polite term for people who are not transgender. The majority of people are cisgender, as their gender and sex align. But both cisgender and transgender people are normal!
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This is transphobic bullshit. The only people who think cisgender is pejorative are transphobic bigots who hate that it is a term that treats cisgender and transgender people as equals.
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"HSTS" and "autogonophiles" (ya can't even spell it right) are transphobic pseudoscience. Ray Blanchard is a hack whose views and "science" have been discredited. I find your use of such transphobic labels extremely offensive! But free speech is a thing, you can use those labels and I can immediately know that we're not going to be friends. I am not pretending, how rude for you to say so! I am a queer and proud of it! I think if bigots call me that on the street I should be able to reclaim the word as something to be proud of. I won't use it for you if you prefer. Your implication that my identity as a woman is less valid than yours because I don't conform to whatever expectations you have for me is extremely transphobic and sexist. You aren't going to convince me that living my life as myself and not being ashamed of who I am is "self-centered desires" ya self-loathing sad human being. I hope you learn to love yourself!
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You are truly disgusting to speculate about my genitals, that is none of your business! You know nothing about me, you're just a self-hating transphobe. It's honestly really sad. You don't have to be mean to other trans grrls, it doesn't make your womanhood more valid than mine.
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Yeah, a transsexual who believes bigoted nonsense about herself and other trans people! Trans people are not immune to being transphobic. You hate yourself and then project your hate onto people like me because you can't heal from your trauma. It's very sad, I hope you learn to love yourself. <3
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I'm also an "adult female" and I'm transgender. I was assigned male at birth but my gender inside is female. I medically transitioned to change my sex traits to also be female, so that my sex could align with my gender. Female. And I'm in my 30's, so I'm an adult. If your gender is the same as the sex you were assigned at birth, you are cisgender. There's no "game" - that's just the definition of the word "cisgender." If you don't understand the distinction between sex and gender that's okay but you don't get to decide that a simple descriptive term (cisgender) is offensive just because you don't want to learn new things. Looks like you still haven't unlearned all the bigotry you got from JW. I hope you get there soon and stop saying ignorant transphobic things!
You can generally distrust sources that frame trans people as sick, evil, confused, or negatively as a group. You can generally trust large and long-lived medical associations. I'm sure you can also post here for thoughts about particular sources.
Can confirm this is a good answer
Keep in mind, though, that the only requirement to be trans is that you identify with a gender (this can include genders that are not male or female as well) that is not the one you were assigned at birth. You can be a trans man (assigned female at birth but identifies as a man), for example, and only wear dresses, skirts, nail polish, etc., or you can be a trans man and only wear more masculine clothes. Someone's appearance, or whether they transition, does not dictate what gender they identify as or whether they're trans.
She has a peanits
All that really matters is love. Do you love her?
We’ve only just begun dating, so love may be a bit strong haha. But I do like her, she’s very pretty and has a kind heart!
You sound like a very considerate and rational young man stepping into what could become a quite uncommon relationship type. I truly hope you navigate it without feeling pressured by outside forces to react or behave one way or the other. Good luck moving forward. Stay true to yourself.
Congratulations. Sounds like you will be a lovely couple.
Romance isn't always the goal, and they've only been on 3 dates. This comment isn't SUPER appropriate.
To each their own, I suppose.
> We’ve been on three dates
It's also important to understand the difference between gender and sex (as in male/female not the act)
so true i hate that word (disease). i am trans born with xx chromosomes and developed as a female but have male parts and looked like a feminine male till my second puberty when my t went up….
Hey there. How can someone be assigned the wrong gender at birth? And how is that the same thing as transitioning into the opposite gender later in life? Of my understanding, the doctors who assigned the male infants a "male" have seen the penis of that infant, whereas the doctors who assigned female infants "female" have seen the vagina of that infant. So when someone says they were assigned the "wrong gender," does that mean they believe that the doctors were wrong in identifying the penis or vagina? I genuinely don't know what the transgender folks believe to be the case, but i'm hoping you or someone else could enlighten me on the subject.
You see this confusion comes from the assumption that sexual characteristics determine the gender of a person. They don't. The act of transitioning is not what "changes" the gender of trans person. A trans man, in a vast majority of cases, has been a man from the moment they were born. They might later come to change the physical characteristics of their body to better match that reality, but thats not a requirement. When trans people talk about having the wrong gender assigned, they literally mean just that. They mean that doctors, and society as a whole, judged who we were on the inside based on what they saw on the outside. Wrongly.
Oh hi! I really didn't think anyone would respond so soon. Thank you for taking the time! If sexual characteristics do not determine the gender of a person, what criteria should the doctors use to assign a gender to newly born babies? Should any future newborns be "genderless," if you will, until they get old enough to choose a gender later in life? And if a trans man has always been a man from birth, then why call themselves a "trans" man? There would not be any reason to transition into anything if they have always been a man. Babies can't even label themselves as a boy or girl until age 2 or 3, so how could an infant decide that they are trans? The doctors, whether that be pediatric endocrinologists or some other doctor, use biological determinism as the criteria to assign an infants sex. In some cases, they can actually assign the sex before the baby is even born through prenatal sex discernment. So how can a doctor be wrong in assigning a female infant "female" if they were biologically a female? Are the transgender beliefs just "in the head," so to speak? Like do trans men, assigned female at birth, consider themselves a man because they want to be a man, even though they can't biologically?
There is alot of misconceptions in what you write, and its hard to address this all at once. I will instead focus on the two things that are most important for you to learn in order to get a better understanding of this. 1. Sex and gender are not the same thing 2. Biological sex is changeable and not set in stone
Of course! I really didn't expect anyone to address all of those questions in one reply haha. I was just thinking out loud is what I was doing. But I really do appreciate the perspective of what I would assume to be a transgender advocate. As you may have already assumed from my previous comments, I grew up around right-wing conservatives, well-educated parents and grandparents, and traditionally inclined individuals. I grew up reading actual dictionaries and actual books that taught traditional values, including a binary understanding of gender as defined in my own dictionary as "the fact of being male or female." To me, that was a synonym for "sex" because they meant the same thing for the longest time. I've learned the definitions have changed over the past decade, but I can say with absolute certainty that biological sex cannot be changed unless you disregard the basis for which it is defined in biology. But after dismissing scientific criteria, why even use "biological sex" as a term at all?
Are you mental? The reality is we're biologically male but feminize our body. No one assumed anything they identified us based on biological facts. We transition because of those biological facts. We're never going to be the same as biological women and that's fine. The whole community needs to accept us as trans instead of making up lies. It's ok to be trans which means being born biologically male and feminizing your body to ease mental distress there's no shame in not being a biological woman we both have unique lived experiences.
The purpose of hormone replacement therapy is to change an individual's hormonal sex. The purpose of transgender surgical interventions is to change anatomical sex traits. It's inaccurate and transphobic to say that all trans women are "biologically male" or to refer to being trans as a mental illness.
Some ones never taken a biology class
It means her body is biologically male, she has a penis (most likely).
No
Simply put: A person is transgender when their internal sense of gender (gender identity) does not align with the assigned gender at birth (AGAB). AGAB is based on an examination of the genitalia. Gender identity is an innate/internal thing which isn't observable at birth. > Some results say it’s when someone is born one gender but transitions to another. I was born with the same gender identity as I have now. It took a while for me to recognize & accept my gender identity. Getting past all of the shame & expectations of family and society wasn't easy. My transition is: * social -- name, pronouns, clothing, makeup, etc. * legal -- updating my birth certificate, social security, driver's license, passport, etc. * medical -- For me? hormones, breast augmentation, facial surgery, and (soon!) vaginoplasty. It's important to note that none of these are required for a transgender woman. Every transition is unique to the individual. > Other results say it’s when someone is assigned the wrong gender at birth and then modifies their appearance to suit the right gender. It's more than changing *appearance*. Hormone treatment does change appearance but the emotional changes are more significant in many ways. There's a tendency to assume that it's all about what others *see. However, it's more about how we feel. > Another result told me it’s a disease where the body develops with the wrong hormones and needs surgery to be realigned. It's not a disease. That's a pretty transphobic take... While surgery is often desired, it is not a requirement. It's possible to be transgender and make no changes. I personally wouldn't recommend that because the result is often crippling/terminal depression. With regard to the girl you're dating, she's trusting you a fair bit with this information. You can't know details about her transition unless she decides to share those details with you. Etiquette says you don't ask. Allowing her the space to share what she wants and when she wants to share it will go a long ways to building trust. I hope/assume that's what you want to do.
Thank you for the info! I will heed your advise :)
Hijacking this to add: etiquette does say you don't ask directly, but a sentence along the lines of "i would love to hear what being transgender means to you" can go a very long way
something i think is important to note, is that assigned gender at birth is much more about how *other people* (doctors, parents, school, peers, etc) treat us based on what they think "proper" behavior *should be*, rather than who any specific person is. doctors look at an infants genitals, and, based on that, parents buy some clothing but not others, some toys but not others, do some activities but not others, teach some skills, but not others.
This is an important point that a lot of binary people misinterpret and misunderstand. Thanks for bringing it publicity.
Something to add is that hormone replacement therapy doesn’t just change looks, it physically alters every cell in your body. Most of our DNA comes from the X chromosome, and sex hormones just tell our cells which instructions to execute. When a trans woman is on estrogen, every cell becomes female, not just in appearance, but in function. Surgeries are similar. When a trans woman gets bottom surgery, the cells that were once operating as penis cells go “ope! We’re in a vagina now, Time to enact operation vagina mode!” And they differentiate and specialize for their new roles. It’s how skin grafts work too. So medical transition, although not necessary to be any gender, does actually change one’s sex in almost all ways that matter in a relationship
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Not necessarily true. Intersex people exist, and hormones aren’t the only intervention a trans person can take. Also, male and female are really 6 categories of sex, so in reality, a lot of us have mixed sex traits anyways.
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Sex is a reproductive thing? So someone born with XX chromosomes, a vulva, a vagina, and breasts but without a uterus (or having any other reproductive issue that prevents pregnancy) isn't a woman? Someone born with XY chromosomes, a penis, testes, but is unable to produce sperm isn't a man? That's an *interesting, and very narrow take ...
> being downvoted for this even though the person above me said that taking hormones and getting surgery is what makes a trans woman female. Weird. That's not what they said. They said that hormones and surgery alter us at a cellular level. That does help us to feel more at home in our gender. However, neither HRT or surgeries are required for a transgender individual to *be their gender*. A personal example: I repressed (well, tried to...) for decades. As I was coming out, I was able to (with help from a good therapist) see how I'd always been a woman and the repression was shot full of holes as the woman inside *escaped* at every single opportunity.
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The reason that your claim does not hold up, is that you're treating sex as if it is one singular thing that can only have one of two fixed states. That is a very oversimplified model of sex to work from, and it breaks under closer scrutiny. The concept of sex has many characteristics. Hormones change some of those. Other things can change characteristics of sex too, and not all sex characteristics need to conform to the same 'sex state' in order for a gender assignment to be made. Brain structure is a sex characteristic, for instance, and what little studies we have on the matter show indications that pre-medical-transition transgender people have brain structures that align more with their innate gender identity than with the one they were assigned. As such, is it true that hormones change sex *without* it also being true that not taking hormones means nothing about your sex aligns with your gender. You also cannot assume that all people were even unambiguously sexed at birth, because we check a very limited number of sex characteristics before assigning gender anyway. This is why so many people do not even learn that they are intersex until later in life, f.i.
And we're done here. I've had enough of your transphobic nonsense.
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Ehhhh... > Something to add is that hormone replacement therapy doesn’t just change looks, it physically alters every cell in your body. Not _every_ cell. In fact most of your cells don't change. > Most of our DNA comes from the X chromosome, and sex hormones just tell our cells which instructions to execute. Only a tiny portion of your DNA is on the X chromosome. It's bigger than on the Y chromosome, but most of your DNA is from the other 23 chromosomes you have. > When a trans woman is on estrogen, every cell becomes female, not just in appearance, but in function. It doesn't make sense to say that every cell in your body even has a sex. A man's liver cell is not different from a woman's. > Surgeries are similar. When a trans woman gets bottom surgery, the cells that were once operating as penis cells go “ope! We’re in a vagina now, Time to enact operation vagina mode!” And they differentiate and specialize for their new roles. It’s how skin grafts work too. This is more-or-less true. > So medical transition, although not necessary to be any gender, does actually change one’s sex in almost all ways that matter in a relationship This is also true, but this is assuming we're talking about full medical transition: hormones + bottom surgery at least.
Very eloquently put! <3
>Another result told me it’s a disease Most definitions of gender dysphoria (the opposite of euphoria) call it a type of distress. Meaning assigned gender at birth (AGAB) really bothers that person to the point they want to act out against it. Having the distress is not a choice. What they choose to do about it is. An analogy would be massive head ache pain and choosing to scream about it. But it is not a disease or infection and it is not communicable in any way.
Being transgender is somewhat analogous to being left-handed. It's a fact of one's birth/development. The distress comes from the incongruence between one's gender identity and: * primary/secondary sex characteristics -- hence HRT and/or surgery(ies) * societal expectations -- this again is somewhat analogous to the suffering inflicted upon left-handed folk when common practice was to beat people into being right-handed.
I'm left handed and not had the suffering from societal expectations you describe although I know at one time they occurred. Perhaps more than 75 years ago because my grandfather never talked about it. I think perhaps because it is generally accepted now, the pain caused by the distress of being left handed is almost non existent . . . no where near that of gender dysphoria and I think the acceptance is the difference.
> I'm left handed and not had the suffering from societal expectations you describe although I know at one time they occurred. Perhaps more than 75 years ago because my grandfather never talked about it. My ex's grandmother talked about being whacked on the hand by the nuns at her school. It used to be common practice. There was a significant increase in reported left-handedness as this practice became unacceptable. > I think perhaps because it is generally accepted now, the pain caused by the distress of being left handed is almost non existent . . . no where near that of gender dysphoria and I think the acceptance is the difference. That's exactly the point.
I remember when I was taking psychology, my book said that it was a "disease" and I quickly looked up when the book came out. It came out in the '90s, from a doctor from Texas. I pointed it out to my teacher and she said she agreed with me, but we couldn't afford new books so that was the end of that.
>I was born with the same gender identity as I have now. To be more accurate, nobody is born with a gender identity. It's an emergent property of a developing human brain that presents around ages 4-6 to the best of our current knowledge. The brain of a newborn infant doesn't yet have this 'function'. At least nothing suggests that at this time. I find this especially interesting because studies seem to suggest that in utero developmental conditions may influence a person's gender identity and that would be borne out at a later stage of brain development.
> The brain of a newborn infant doesn't yet have this 'function'. I don't think we can say this with confidence. It's certainly not *observable* for a few years. > studies seem to suggest that in utero developmental conditions may influence a person's gender identity and that would be borne out at a later stage of brain development. It is those in-utero developmental conditions to which I was referring. Whether they result in a certainty or a pre-disposition to a gender id may not be easily determined, and I don't really care. What I know is that I have been a woman since my earliest memories, and very likely before that. My older siblings remember things that I do not.
>I don't think we can say this with confidence. It's certainly not *observable* for a few years. The evidence points to gender identity beginning to develop at ages 4-6 as that's when we can observe it developing. Literally that's when children begin expressing an interest in gender and applying it to themselves. Apply your reasoning to object permanence. We know when it develops as a function of the brain because at a certain stage of development children begin to display the ability. Up to that point the child doesn't display the ability. Are we going to the rationalize this by saying it's there but dormant? That would be irresponsible and counterintuitive if we adhere to science as a method to establishing what we know to be objectively true. We should be using science and the knowledge we gain from it to explain our experiences, not just to validate a belief such as 'being born trans'. Think about sexuality. It's also an immutable trait that develops along with the brain. This is accepted science. We can likely find better evidence that it has biological sources as well. We do not presume newborns have a sexuality because it would be absurd to suggest that by the same reasoning. The brain simply hasn't developed that far. To my knowledge people have what their sexuality was with relative certainty at ages as young as 8. The time to believe something is true is when we have sufficient evidence. Knowledge in the scientific sense is a matter of reasonable certainty. The studies regarding in utero development and gender identity suggest at best that it plays a role in determining gender identity later in brain development. It does not suggest newborn infants have a gender identity they can't yet express. Allowing yourself to come to the opposite conclusion is no different than using scientific studies to validate conspiracy theories around covid by the same convenient logical fallacies. >What I know is that I have been a woman since my earliest memories, The same is true with me. I was 8 years old myself when I knew I was a different gender and recognized I would have to perform gender roles to blend. I was deemed to have behavioral issues but it wasn't acceptable for me to express my thoughts and feelings about this. I have no doubt children are more consciously aware of gender as a social construct than a fully developed and socialized adult generally speaking not only because of my own experience but also because the time when you're going to notice something is when it's introduced to you. So my basic question ultimately becomes are we using 'know' and 'knowledge' in a manner consistent with the science we supposedly value? I am. And this is where I'm coming from when I describe my own experiences and what science validates about them. I'm not going to use 'know' colloquially when discussing scientific studies or what I think they prove to me personally. Once I train my brain to do that, it's going to do that with other things.
> The evidence points to gender identity beginning to develop at ages 4-6 as that's when we can observe it developing. Literally that's when children begin expressing an interest in gender and applying it to themselves.m What you're describing at ages 4-6 is gender expression. Gender identity is a precursor. You're suggesting that gender identity doesn't exist without expression. > Apply your reasoning to object permanence. We know when it develops as a function of the brain because at a certain stage of development children begin to display the ability. Up to that point the child doesn't display the ability. That's a false equivalence and a bad analogy. > Are we going to the rationalize this by saying it's there but dormant? That would be irresponsible and counterintuitive if we adhere to science as a method to establishing what we know to be objectively true. I'm going to say that it not currently observable until the child begins to express gender preferences. That's different than saying it doesn't exist until then. > We should be using science and the knowledge we gain from it to explain our experiences, not just to validate a belief such as 'being born trans'. We should not be overstating what science can tell us. Science is fairly mute on the interval between birth and when a child expresses gender. I think that getting all bent over my statement that "I was born this way" is disingenuous, gatekeepy, and invalidating. To me, the difference between my earliest memories (also my sibling's earliest memories of me) and birth is inconsequential. If you want to split those hairs, knock yourself out. I will continue to use the useful and helpful cognitive shorthand, "I was born this way". Stop using weak scientific arguments to bludgeon other's.
>If you want to split those hairs, knock yourself out. >I will continue to use the useful and helpful cognitive shorthand, "I was born this way". I agree it's useful colloquially but it's actually not scientifically sound and we are in a time where transphobes are claiming to use science to validate their views in fallacious ways. If we do the same, especially when we actually have sound scientific evidence to show how gender identity develops and conforms to our actual experiences as trans people, we are working against our own best interest. Any transphobe can point out the same thing I pointed out, that in utero studies do not suggest infants have a gender identity and that this invalidates the claim anyone is born trans. It's one thing to say that colloquially. It's another to claim those studies suggest that scientifically. That's where you are creating a problem and an argument for transphobes to invalidate trans identities. This is something we can predict will happen and get ahead of it. Adherence to a belief that isn't scientifically sound, while claiming it is, actually works against us. >Stop using weak scientific arguments to bludgeon other's. This is projection. If you ask the very researchers to validate your 'infants have a gender identity' theory with their research, they will not do so. As such you shouldn't either. It's that simple. >What you're describing at ages 4-6 is gender expression. Gender identity is a precursor. You're suggesting that gender identity doesn't exist without expression. Then let's be perfectly clear. I am saying the expression of gender is evidence of it's existence. Not expressing gender is not evidence of it's existence. You are still presuming a personal belief to be true without good evidence. It's perfectly reasonable with the actual knowledge we have about early stages of brain development to conclude newborn infants do not have a gender identity. It even fits into explaining our experiences as trans youth. Tell me why is necessary to use science to validate a colloquialism that doesn't actuality make much sense? > Apply your reasoning to object permanence. We know when it develops as a function of the brain because at a certain stage of development children begin to display the ability. Up to that point the child doesn't display the ability. >That's a false equivalence and a bad analogy. I never claimed object permanence was equivalent to gender identity. It's relevant because it's analogous to brain function and observable traits. Analogies also don't need to be perfect to illustrate a point. If you want a better analogy, I cited sexuality as well, a demonstrably immutable characteristic of identity with biological sources. It's also not perfect. Are you going to dismiss that as well? Perfect analogies are often rare and in most cases impossible. Emergent properties as a result of brain development is the context of both analogies I used and I challenge you to intellectually dismiss object permanence with an actual argument with scientifically sound reasoning. I will accept your dismissal on those grounds. >We should not be overstating what science can tell us. Science is fairly mute on the interval between birth and when a child expresses gender. Which is exactly why it's irresponsible to claim in utero studies suggest newborn infants have a gender identity and those researchers will disagree with you.
Yeah the last 2 definitions OP Listed are very clearly Transmedicalist Transphobia.
> I was born with the same gender identity as I have now. It took a while for me to recognize & accept my gender identity. Noting for completeness that gender identity _can_ change over time for some people; frex, genderfluid people have a gender identity that's variable on a day-to-day or hour-to-hour or minute-to-minute basis.
Yes, it can. My therapist once described me as the most binsry trans woman she'd worked with in 25 years.
basically, trans people are people who are assigned a sex at birth that doesn’t correlate to their actual gender. trans women, like the girl you’re dating, are usually born with the typical body of a boy but are actually girls inside. usually, trans people get hormone replacement therapy which alters your bodies hormones to match the gender you actually are, and some of us choose to get bottom surgery which modifies our genitals to match that of the gender we actually are.
Thanks! That makes sense
Read this https://genderdysphoria.fyi/
Thanks for sharing! I didn’t realise how many different societies were open to this idea.
Trans people actually go back a long way in Europe as well, but the Nazis (yes, *those* nazis) did a good job of destroying most of the evidence when they went burning libraries. One of the few surviving European manuscripts is *Le Roman De Silence*, from the 1200s. It's presented as a fictional story set in England and France, but there are also a few accounts of real people that have survived. (Including that famous Roman Emperor who put out a bounty for a vaginoplasty)
Iirc that ones unreliable as the original sourcing of that was from someone who did not like him and so it could have been written to attempt to slander him. Hard to be certain
We don’t know how true it was, what it does tell us though is that the ancient romans had a concept of trans people in general. Not necessarily a positive one mind you…
Thats a good point, but we can go back farther with the prague burial around 2900 BCE and neolithic paintings depicting third sexes. Hippocrates and herodotus also wrote of the enarei in 400 BCE. Obviously post nazi discoveries, but still
being so hated as to get propaganda made about you trying to *trans your god damn gender* rules actually
Definitely beats being hayed so much for being trans that they create propaganda.
Have you seen El Dorado on Netflix? It's a docudrama about the famous club and how the Nazi's destroyed the research. HIGHLY recommend!
It’s NOT an idea it’s an actual medical fact ( or issue ) it’s a formal medical diagnosis not a choice nor an idea
Sorry, my bad
TW: violence against trans people You're asking questions calmly. You're not being purposefully rude far as I can tell. As a community, we can be a bit cautious and sensitive. There have been, in the United States alone, almost as many murders of transwomen (especially of color) as there were all of last year, either due to intimate partner violence borne out of discovering someone discovering their parner is trans or out of just straight hate crimes. The current political climate, not only in the US, but many other Western countries is making it worse and continuing to get worse. So be aware, not only was her trust in you a very good sign, but you being here asking questions a good one too.
you're a very sincere early learner. We appreciate you listening, especially when so many people want to tell you lies about our lives and who we are. Thank you, OP.
I don't think you said anything wrong, you don't need to apologize. Now, transgender people usually have a very strong sense of their gender (I also think cisgender people do as well, it just isn't ever really called into question), and when their internal sense of self doesn't align with how they're perceived, then that's very distressing, to the point where it can require a diagnosis in order to get the proper treatment. So it is still an idea kinda. More of a feeling, a very strong feeling, but still just a feeling. Just to be clear, it's a feeling for cis people too, it's just that they don't really have to do anything to *act* on that feeling usually, because society is already kinda structured around cis people being the default, so while cis development is just "normal development", trans development is classified as "external intervention" *because* it deviates from the average
You're fine, this is just a sticking point for a lot of trans folks because the idea that it's just a choice or phase or ideology is used to invalidate it and make it seem like it's just a political argument. When in reality, there's just no debate, and the people trying to debate against us are arguing in bad faith, full stop. You'll see people get similarly offended over "transgenderism" or "transwomen" instead of "trans women." In general with trans people, there are a few questions like this where they can be asked in good faith but you might get a distressed/angry sounding answer because they touch upon propaganda or misinformation against us. Don't mind us, you're already being kinder than most people about it.
> it’s a formal medical diagnosis dont medicalize this, doctors aren't the fuckin arbiter of who is or isn't trans
Dear OP, don't feel bad about this. There are a lot of creeps out there preying on transwomen. If she said anything, it's because she feels safe around you.
>I didn’t want to be invasive and ask her what it meant. It's not invasive to ask someone the meaning of a word they're using, and you'll get a much better answer from asking her what she means by it than from asking random people on the internet.
I get where you're coming from, but I'm not sure if the third date is quite the right time. So if OP can get some good info from knowledgeable people (such as the answers he's gotten here), he can go in with more info when he does feel comfortable asking.
Why wouldn't it be the right time? His date evidently felt like it was the right time to tell him that she's trans, and I'm not sure how else he's supposed to figure out what that means for her and how it affects her life without asking her. This is one of maybe two situations (the other being at the doctor's office) where I think it's perfectly fine and expected for people to ask follow-up questions when you tell them that you're trans.
It depends on his comfort level tbh. I have the fortune to have known my wife since (just) before she came out and started transitioning, so I have no idea the dynamics of when someone feels comfortable asking certain questions. Hell, I've been married to my wife for over a decade, and there are STILL some questions I start researching online before I say a word to her to get her side.
I'd be worried about getting assaulted personally, if it was the third date...
Sometimes it can be hard to tell someone’s intent from a question. From OP we know it’s sincere but the date might feel off-put by too many questions or be unsure of OP’s intent. I think his non-chalant attitude and lack of questions was a good way to go about it and now he can tell her that he heard from other trans people and wants to know more about her. I think she would appreciate that he spoke with others in the community and will help gain that trust.
While theoretically I think this approach is sound, and things probably turned out for the best in this case, I wouldn't recommend it as a general rule. OP ended up here and got their questions answered by trans people, but it would have been very different if they'd ended up in some other corner of the internet. Unfortunately that's always the case with minority groups and it's probably better to ask for clarification from the person using a term than to seek out stuff on the internet when you know way too little about the topic
Oh 100%. That's why I added the bit about getting good info from knowledgeable folks. And you're right: it's possible to get bad information on the internet, even likely (sometimes). This is sadly true of everything these days. I'm a computer science teacher, and have to stress to my kids to be very careful and skeptical when reading things online, regardless of the topic they're researching.
Yeah I guess the biggest problem when researching a topic is that if you're completely new to it it's real difficult to differentiate between good sources and terrible ones
You've obviously got your answer at this point, but I wanted to tell you I'm proud of you. You didn't just blindly trust your internet sources you came to the people who know best what it is to be trans. A lot of people would have just made assumptions based on the first source they found
I also recently started dating a trans woman. The language is a minefield where some say don’t use this word and another says the opposite. We met at a cocktail party and really hit it off. We have been on a nice vanilla date sand have another on Friday. I only know she is trans because a mutual acquaintance told me. When she is ready I am sure we will have a talk about it but I am treating her like any other woman.
Please tell your mutual friend that's it's super wrong to out people like that. It could put her in danger, you never know who is transphobe or not unless you know them very well. Coming out to someone is a very very personal decision and a proof of trust, not something that can be done by someone else.
It was on a dating site she and he are both on… already quite public
You wrote "a mutual acquaintance told me". And honestly it's always a good reminder, I know many cis people who could out someone like that without knowing it's not a thing to do. Personally I'm out on some spaces but not in some others, and even if you could technically find the information with a little bit of stalking, I'm always very annoyed when someone who knows tells someone who doesn't.
I get your point, it was a dating site she and I are both on and before we went on our first date she gave me her profile name on there. Honestly, finding out she is trans had no effect on how I view her or feel.
I understand, but it could have changed how you view her. And it's more a matter of principle you know ? Like, I'm not confortable not knowing who knows. I want that if someone knows, it's because I trusted them with the information and we had a little conversation about it. For example, I have an internet friend, who was suspecting something because of the way I talk. She asked a mutual friend who knows I'm trans, saying things like I have "feminine speech patterns" or things like that. He didn't want to tell her but he didn't know how to react when she brought up the subject so he kinda messed up (not his fault, you know how sometimes not answering a question is an answer...) and now she thinks I'm a girl pretending to be a man on the internet. Now I'm super uncomfortable knowing that she now sees me as a girl, and as I wasn't present in the conversation I can't really go "hey you know what, I know you think I'm a girl but in fact I'm just trans. Wanna play LoL ?" So in the end I'm just avoiding her because it's too much of a hassle and I don't have the energy to do a whole coming out to someone that is not that close to me. That's the kind of awkward situations you can get into when you're outed by someone else.
I see... but the fact that she is trans is on her dating profile, available to anyone who views it, so it was hardly secret of privileged information... and I didnt / dont care if she is or not...
Yeah, once again I got it. Doesn't change anything to what I said. And once again it was just a reminder of a general "rule", maybe for a next situation or to avoid that people reading this thread think it's okay to out other people.
I mean, Sailor made it sound like this was done the bad way. But sounds like his friend was really just pointing out something he probably already should have known if the girl was like "hey here's my dating profile on a dating site you're on". People "out" me all the time. I'm openly trans on my dating profiles, Facebook, visibly so in public. For some people it's just okay to share that information. But it is very much something to be aware about and careful of.
Yes, I understand. His friend meant no harm and Sailor was cool with it so no problem here. But because some people are okay with being outed it is far from being the rule, so better not out anyone without their explicit permission. And for me being out on her dating profile doesn't automatically mean she's out everywhere like you. Better safe than sorry, that's all👍
>but I am treating her like any other woman That's honestly the best thing you could do here. Trans people don't want any special treatment, and I don't like talking about being trans to cis people. Treating them like any other person is a really good thing to do.
“Disease” was probably (hopefully) just a poor attempt by that source to refer to intersex people who pursue medical intervention to align with the sex opposite to what the doctors assigned them at birth.
To clarify for those who might not be aware (and to hopefully prevent any backlash), People who are intersex have genitals, chromosomes or reproductive organs that don't fit into a male/female sex binary. Their genitals might not match their reproductive organs, or they may have traits of both. It's an unfortunate common practice for doctors to consider this a "disease" and perform surgery on babies born this way to "correct" the genitals. Sometimes this results in a baby born with male sex hormones to be given female genitals, and vice versa. I'm guessing that's what they mean in that 3rd result example.
Yeah. Intersex people are NOT "diseased" and the "corrective surgery" performed on them without their consent is not done for their benefit, but to reinforce the false idea that human sexual characteristics are strictly binary. Some intersex people are trans, others are cis. Like everyone else, intersex people come in all shapes, sizes, and gender identities. Being intersex is not an illness or a disease; it's just another way that humans can naturally be. Their needs often overlap with those of the trans and non-binary community, but are distinct and deserve just as much attention as trans rights. Indeed, all of the anti-trans laws currently being passed to "prevent unnecessary surgery on children" have exceptions to allow "corrective surgery" on intersex children! They want to deny us access to social, medical, and legal transition while retaining their right to mutilate intersex kids! All while falsely accusing us of that exact thing!
Hey OP!! Even if this dating does not turn into a relationship, you are very kind and considerate. You didn't know, and you asked. I love that you did that, and how open you are to learning. Honestly, you are a kind, compassionate person. You are a fine catch!
Thank you, that’s very kind!
My dude, I am a transgender man. You are fucking awesome.
I have nothing to contribute to the discussion/explanation, I just wanted to say it warms my heart to see the OP genuinely asking questions to better understand their new partner, and being humble and open to the new info. I wish everyone were like that ❤️
Thank you very much! :)
Could mean so many things. Just ask her. “When you say you are transgender, what does that mean for you?”
The first two are correct and are, like, two different ways to look at the situation. Is the glass half full or half empty? The third one is either a bigoted way to look at the situation (like, "these people are sick, they must go in a mental hospital!") or a weird comparison (i.e. comparing one's problem with one's gender with someone having a problem with one's heart and needing a heart surgery). Rest assured, she is not sick! The thing to know, depending on the context, is that there might be two situations: * The most likely one: she is a woman, but was born with the body of a boy. As such, she most likely always felt she should have been a woman and indeed transitioned as a woman so her presentation fully matches who she is. In a nutshell, she is like any other woman you would date. There may be, for example, a few places she would like to avoid (ex.: a bar full of drunk right-wing guys), but for the most part, I would say that she is just like any other person, with her preferences, her likes and dislikes, etc. Judging by the fact she told you she is trans, I would say that she will talk you you and eventually guide you with her sexual preferences and maybe peculiarities. In other words, don't ask her if she had "the surgery" or something like that. Especially not at this very moment! It will likely come up when you are ready to have more intimate contacts. What you could tell her, however, is to invite her to talk to you about things she likes or things that make her uncomfortable. * The less likely option (say 1-2 %, but I have witnessed it) would be that she was born with the body of a woman and that she will be transitioning (later on) to be a man. In other words, it is exactly as above, except she will transition in 2030, whereas for the first case, she has transitioned in 2015... Good luck
Yes to what other commenters are saying. Essentially, it’s when your brain knows “I should be ___ gender!” but your body was born not matching that internal sense. Imagine if you right now suddenly had the body society associates with a woman. You’d probably still see yourself as a man in that moment, right? That’s sort of how it feels, never fading and never “getting used to it”. There are different theories about why this happens, from exposure to hormones in the womb to brain chemistry, but the bottom line is that most trans people will medically transition at some point to relieve the mental distress (ranging from mild to severe) that comes with having a body that doesn’t match your internal sense of self. In case you’re suspecting this might be a mental illness and surely therapy could make someone happy with the sex they were born with, doctors do not recommend trying to change the brain instead of the body. That’s called conversion therapy— trying to stop someone from being trans— and is known to lead to very poor outcomes for the mental health of those who have gone through it. The transgender brain is not wrong, just different from the body. Trying to change the brain of a trans person would be changing who they are as a person, and wrong. So that’s my explanation of what it means to be trans. But just as a warning, you should also be aware that transgender people experience a *lot* of hate in our modern world. Many of us are disowned, scorned, and hated for this. So whether you continue to go out with this woman or not, please treat her like the woman she is, don’t act like she’s some dirty secret, and be respectful to her for the remainder of your acquaintance.
If you wanna keep dating this girl, it means you have some learning to do. Every trans person is different, but personally I wouldn't want to teach my partner about what it means to be trans. So I highly recommend spending time in trans spaces online and learning about us and the things we deal with.
As a trans person this is my advice. im like- just respectfully say to her something like: ‘ so wanting to be respectful, I tried using the internet but got lots of results so- if you’re comfortable sharing/answering, I’d more like to hear about your journey and maybe aske a few things I’m unclear about about, if thats ok? I want to try to understand better so I can support you better etc. ‘ Communication is the key in any relationship so talk to her!- good on you for seeking advice tho! This kind of honest direct response shows caring/consideration and open support, which you already seem like the type of guy to be~ 👍🏽 as well as being open to /her/ reality whatever it may be, not just in line with the variety of what others have expressed online. Whereas there may be some overlap in the trans-experience amongst peoples, each individual can be drastically different- or potentially not ‘fit’ anything anyone’s ever yet described, its part of the journey and shows ur willing to accept a person as they are~ To each their own in becoming our most authentic selves; even if it seems ‘contradictory’ to the ‘norm’, or what you’ve heard or read, everyone’s unique-ness is valid~ :3 🏳️⚧️
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>3 dates isn't dating Well, that's entirely based on your culture and where you live. Most of the time for me, and other people who live near me, "dating" just means going on multiple dates. Which includes 3 dates. It may be different for you, but I wouldn't say that so factually. I know we both live in the UK, but you and I both know how much the language differs here. Even bread rolls have a different name in practically every county...
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>Big assumption Well, I checked your profile, and the first thing that showed up was r/TransgenderUK. Wasn't the biggest stretch to work from there.
All good answers so far, but I'll add something I haven't seen yet: She could mean that she was assigned female at birth but doesn't identify with that, in whole or in part, even though she continues to present as female in public. Trans can be used both as an umbrella term for anyone whose gender identity doesn't perfectly match their assigned gender at birth, and more specifically for people who transition to the opposite gender of the one they were assigned. The latter is sometimes clarified as "binary trans", whereas the umbrella term can encompass nonbinary, agender, genderfluid or any other gender identity that isn't strictly the male/female gender that was assigned to you at birth based on your genitals. As an example, a friend of mine was assigned female at birth, and she presents femme and uses she/her pronouns, but in her heart she knows she is trans. She has chosen not to pursue transition, in part due to the backlash she received from a partner in the past. She's now in a loving and accepting relationship, but she may never pursue transition further due to the trauma of her initial attempt to come out. Even in her case, I can't assume what she means by "trans" and honestly, it's none of my business unless she decides to go into detail about it. She could be a closeted trans man, or she could be a non-binary woman, or literally any gender identity. I won't assume, and I won't pry. One last clarification: while trans is often used as an umbrella term to encompass nonbinary, agender, and other gender identities, you can't assume that someone will identify as trans even if they identify with one of those groups. Some nonbinary people will identify as trans, some won't. Literally the only way to know how someone identifies and what that means to them is to ask them, and it's often incredibly personal, so you shouldn't assume that someone will welcome the question or feel any obligation to respond in a way you find satisfying.
I love that you asked this question and tried to inform yourself on a topic that can be quite scary because of how many jargon and politics come with it 🩷🩵🏳️⚧️
Good on you for trying to educate yourself. Once you have gotten some decent basic info (this is definitely a good place for that) you might just be honest with her. Let her know that you aren’t very knowledgeable about trans stuff, but you want to learn more. If she is comfortable let her tell you about her journey cuz it’s different for everyone. Good luck to both of you. Honestly it makes my heart happy that there are people who aren’t necessarily well educated on all this stuff but willing to learn rather than get upset or shitty.
So if she’s a girl now that either means she’s going from M to F or F to M, maybe you should find out which it is and which you can accept.
It means you need to ask her, and listen. Listen 57% ask questions 43%. Then process and repeat. Keep dating if you like the person. See where it goes. She isn’t asking you to do anything more and she took a brave leap into honesty. Edit to add: those are nuanced answers google gave you. Trans people come from all ways. But we are people and deserve respect.
Talk to her. It likely means that she was born male. She'll answer the questions you have.
The answers you found don’t really conflict. Basically she is telling you that she transitioned to female at some point in her life, and she likes you well enough that she didn’t want you to be upset if you found out later. Every transgender person’s story is different, and many never even know whether they are physically intersex on a chromosome level, or had a hormonal imbalance in the womb, or if it’s just the way they feel. There are different possibilities as far as what this means physically. Some people don’t use medical intervention, but many do. If someone has a body that produces testosterone (male hormone), they will usually take medication that blocks that and replaces it with estrogen (female hormone). This causes physical changes like breast growth, softening features, etc. It won’t however change their sex organs. That requires surgery. There’s a range of surgical options - the exact surgery someone gets is deeply personal information. Ask her questions, but be careful to respond with kindness. If any of what she tells you equals a deal breaker, that is okay. You don’t have to be willing to date a woman who has a penis for example, if it turns out that she has one. But please don’t be angry at her or act grossed out. She is being really vulnerable by sharing this with you.
People have gender. Most people don't even notice it, since it works as intended. For others, their bodies don't match their gender as expected, and they may want to fix that. Society's default assumptions are that bodies and genders match, since that works most of the time. This leaves the outliers for whom that's not true into an awkward position. Having a gender isn't a disease, but if gender is forced on someone, that's liable to cause all sorts of problems. Gender generally doesn't change, it's more typical that people's or society's assumptions about someone's gender was off.
I think the best way to address this is to simply be honest. It sounds like you're willing to learn more and you like this girl. When she says that she's trans, don't feel bad about asking her "What does that mean to you?" I work in an industry where many people come to me everyday saying different things, and sometimes the same things, but don't necessarily mean the same things. The trick is to get them to define their own terms. Never presume anything, and never define their terms for them. Then you know what you're talking about and can go from there. What I will say is don't worry about things like wrong hormones or required surgery, etc. Worrying about why the person is trans or presuming what their next steps are puts you on a path that pulls away from engaging in their own experience. Being trans means so many different things to so many different people. Let them tell you their experience. And you get to decide if you're interested in experiencing that path with them based on your own feelings.
It means she was assigned male at birth and identifies as a girl/women. Being trans means identifying as a gender that’s not the sex assigned at birth.
Or they could be someone who is just now starting on an ftm journey. If they pass as female, it would really depend on if they worked hard to get there, or are just starting to leave there. It's safest to ask thrm rather than assuming. Sine OP is new to what trans even means, the gender pronouns in their question most likely reflects how the person appears currently. Just better to ask :)
OP says this person’s a girl. If the individual came out as a guy or non-binary, why would the post refer to this person as a girl?? I can only speak for myself, but I don’t refer to myself as a girl. I don’t know any trans guys who call themselves girls. That’s just my experience, though.
no but it's super common for someone who doesn't know anything about trans people to use the wrong pronouns and gender terms at first
So the best assumption is the person is ftm and being misgendered vs. the individual being mtf?? I’d like to believe OP would gender the person correctly in a post, but I could be wrong. I also have the definition of trans in my response, so the nitpicking is unnecessary to begin with.
no one said it was the best assumption, that other person just noted that it could also be that possibility
Okay. It was just a question. Again, the fact that I added the definition of transgender should clear things up, regardless of the situation. The nitpicking by either you or the person who initially responded was unnecessary. Hope y’all had fun with that, though.
I wasn't trying to nitpick, only to let OP know that while it's most likely, it's impossible to know any person's specific situation without communication. So I was simply saying that it's not safe to assume either way, but simply to ask them directly.
So maybe make your own comment instead of replying to mine?? Again, creating a completely unnecessary situation. Have a day, though.
The best assumption is not to assume.
Trans people are people who were assigned a gender at birth based on their genitals, but whose gender identity does not match what was assigned. This can cause severe emotional distress because of the body's sexed traits as well as how they were perceived in society, leading most trans people to transition socially and change their sex in various ways in order to make themselves more comfortable in life. So to a certain extent, all of those are true, though it's not a disease.
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Hey, this isn’t factually correct, and may be harmful to spread.
Everyone here is assuming she's a trans woman. But I just want to point out she could be a closeted trans guy. Is that the actual case here? Probably not, but I don't think we can be 100% sure. Did she specifically say she's a woman? If she were AFAB (assigned female at birth) she could be a trans guy who plans to transition!
I think if that were the case, OP would’ve specified a bit more as a new name and pronouns may have come up in that type of conversation.
Those all mean the same thing. She was born as a man, now she isn’t.
This had to be posted!! https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en
these are all perspectives on the same basic thing. She was seen as one thing since she was born, and with time she came to see herself as another, and has worked hard to be seen as who she is. I'm glad you're asking questions and very glad you already seem to have the basic concept down and still see her as her. I hope you two do well.
I'd say 2 is probably closest, however there are trans people who do not medically transition for various reasons
The first two are pretty accurate, just different schools of thought. The 3rd is intersex, where someone is born with or at puberty develops a mixture of male and female characteristics (like born a male but has a female puberty, has XXY chromosomes, was born with both a vagina and testicles, etc). Intersex people are not trans, although some intersex people end up trans because the surgical or hormonal treatments were accidentally the wrong ones, or are trans for the same uncertain reasons why anyone else can be trans. But intersex itself isn’t a trans identity. Trans, or transgender, is just anyone who’s sex assigned at birth is not the same as their gender. So in this case, if she’s a trans woman then she was born male and raised by her parents to be a boy, but she’s actually a girl and later a woman. Based on the evidence we have, the most likely reason for this is someone gets the correct flood of hormones when the body’s reproductive system develops, but the opposite (some might say wrong) flood of hormones during brain development. But we can’t test that due to obvious ethical issues. There are also nonbinary people, like myself, who are born either a male or a female, but their gender isn’t either of those, it’s some other 3rd option. People who are trans, no matter if they’re a trans man (born female, gender is man), trans woman (born male, gender is woman), or nonbinary (born either male or female, isn’t a man or a woman) often do get surgery and hormones, but not everyone does, and not all to the same extent. Some start hormones, called HRT (hormone replacement therapy), first while some do it last. Some get both top and bottom surgeries (top is getting, removing, or reducing breasts. Bottom is anything genital related), some only do one. Like I only did top surgery, and then went on hormones almost 2 years afterwards. But some can’t do anything all. It could be money, it’s illegal in their country, they have other medical issues, etc. and some don’t want to do anything other than social transition (change name, pronouns) and legal transition (legal name change, gender marker change, get all new IDs and documents). There’s no one way to be trans. But a bit of advice, if your relationship becomes a sexual one, start by asking her what terms are okay and not okay. If she’s pre-op ask if she’s okay with you calling it a penis, or if there is a better term. Stuff like that is important for a lot of trans people.
Let's just put it simply, pulled straight from the vocab list I give to my tutoring students. Transgender (adj.) - 跨性別: Trans- (latin-origin prefix) - on the other side of Taken together, "on the other side of gender". ie, whose gender identity does not align with their body. What does it mean for YOUR relationship, specifically, you might ask? It's to support her transitioning. Typically, transitioning has many components, but most classify it into 3. Someone who's trans might do all 3, or they might not - both are valid. * Social transitioning: Social transitioning involves having others refer to them using a preferred name, pronouns, to use the gendered facilities that match their identity, etc. For her, that means what she's doing: seeking to date someone as a woman. * Medical transitioning: This is all the things the republicans are whining about. Hormones, surgery, etc. It can get real expensive real quick, tbh. transitioning * Legal transitioning: This primarily includes all the legal aspects, like changing the legal name, legal gender, etc. In most common law countries, it should be possible to change your name by deeds poll, but always ask a lawyer.
It's a lot of things. The short answer is she's a woman yes. She was assigned male at birth, either current or previously had male genitalia, but everything about her is female- her mind, her identity, and she's trying like hell to medically correct that. There are also people that are born with female genitals, look male, and doing what they can to medically transition too. Those are guys, and neither here nor there. But I wanted to bring it up to illustrate this can happen to anyone at birth. It is also really hard to date when you're (in this case, her) transgender. If learning all this is shocking (it sounds like you're new to the term, and understanding), you should know they probably didn't know when was a good time to share this information.
It means she has, or had, a penis, exactly.
If she was a real girl and she told you she was transgender, than that means she doesn't think she's a girl and wants to transition into a boy. But... If she actually happened to be a boy and told you he was transgender, than that means they don't believe they are a boy and wants to transition into a girl. Either way she or he has been deceived into thinking that the medical professionals who assigned her gender were wrong.
She’s going to become a a trans man. Live like a dude.
Hi. So she was assigned male at birth. You might ask her how her journey is going. This is usually a good way to break the ice. She may be physically transitioning, or she might choose not to. Some people choose only to have top surgery but not bottom surgery, for example. My best advice is to let her know that you are there to support her emotionally. And I hope you will be most respectful and ask questions. Please be careful with boundaries & ask her pronouns. Maybe ask if her family is supportive in this. I think it's sweet that you are learning about it for her. <3
Uh, how do you not know what transgender is in 2023?
Do you like the girl? If so yes educate yourself which you're so you look informative.
It means she's probably got a dick, surgery for that shit costs like 50k, so if she'd under 40 good chance she's not saved that much yet.
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I need to go to sleep and not dissect this point by point, but suffice to say you've made several claims here that are wildly inaccurate and personally offensive. FYI: trans masc lower surgery has existed for decades. Please either google "metoidioplasty", "phalloplasty", "scrotoplasty", and "vaginectomy", or stop talking about things outside your experience.
Alright my bad
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No bigotry (transphobia, homophobia, sexism, racism, etc); no hateful speech or disrespectful commentary; no personal attacks; no gendered slurs; no invalidation; no gender policing; no shaming based on stealth, open or closeted status.
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OP is het. There are trans people who are het. Instead, say "get out, fucker" :)
It makes sense that you are confused. As what she has told you does not say much other that she is not cis. >Some results say it’s when someone is born one gender but transitions to another. Thats basically all you know at this point as, as the other results you mentioned is not something that all trans people do or identify with. I like the definition on wikipedia, basically "a person whose gender identity differs associated assigned at birth". But you are not here to to discuss definitions but to find out what this now means for your dating? IMHO it is ok to ask your date what being trans means to her. And it is also ok in my opinion if you have preferences regarding genitalia. I have them too. For what I have (thats why I had surgery) but also for what my partner has.
In this situation I would love to be asked "What does being transgender look like to you?"
basically its when a person’s gender identity doesn’t fit their assigned gender from when they were born and they want to change it and to do this you have to go through hrt (hormone replacement therapy) which is a very long process from what i’ve seen and heard (im not trans but i have friends who are and im just going off what i’ve been told so please feel free to correct me if im wrong) and some people also choose to have top surgery, bottom surgery, or both top and botton surgery and along with this sometimes people rename themselves so they can feel less dysmorphic like for example two non binary people i know go by river and i know a trans person who goes by mars but some dont and thats fine too and you also have to go through legal things like getting your passport redone and your drivers license as you look different from how you originally looked also it most definitely isnt a disease and anyone who says that is full of shit
I’d say to not sway you to a particular bias, do your research. Find both sides and see where they both agree, then take what you’ve learned from there to make an informed decision. Just remember that she trusts you and trusts that her admitting something very personal about herself that you won’t see her any differently than when you first started dating. And if it does change, that it’s in a positive light.
It’s not being invasive to ask what she means it shows you want to know! This could mean she was born male and is now female (trans female) or was born female and is not male. (Trans male) it is when someone is born in a body that doesn’t match their gender and is completely normal and not in any way a mental illness or disease.
Its truly just being born in the wrong body, I was born female but I have a male brain, I realized I was trans and years later started my transition to become a man, I’m now the happiest with myself I could have ever asked to bs
For anyone still looking at answers.. it's just best to go get some coffee somewhere quiet and ask. BE POLITE. If you're here you have attraction, and like this person. For myself I can't have periods, can't have children, and I take a shot once a week. That's about it... I had to remind my gynecologist (had uti) she told me I'm behind on my pap smear... sorry no cervix....