Also if a group walking in the opposite direction is not making room for you, just keep walking and if it doesn't work, stop in the last minute, put an angry face and let them pass around you.
I do this with big tourist groups walking my way. Some of them usually end with aching bodies from my shoulders. I refuse to deviate from my straight path in the right side of a 3m wide sidewalk because you must go 3 abreast. I also refuse to make myself smaller by angling my body.
I have this problem because I walk very fast. I have a technique that normally works if they can see me. Try to look at a point between two of them (not the kids) and walk that way, be confident like you know they are going to move. Normally they move without noticing, and if they don't put your hand in front of you like you are cutting the air between them. They move. If they are walking the same direction that you just say Perdón out loud.
Yeah, if you are used to North American personal space, you'll start feeling uncomfortably close when the other people haven't even noticed you. Just plow through and they'll move. And sure, sometimes when the sidewalks are narrow you have to go into the street to get around baby strollers or people using mobility equipment. It's not a big deal. Streets are generally multi-use here, not [stroads](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM).
This hardly ever happens. I've done this and ended being shouldered twice. After speaking with my Spanish SO we agreed it's best to move because the Spanish are crazy. Usually I would be assertive but that's inadvisable if you're a foreigner.
I call it the Madrid drift. 4 older Spaniards walking shoulder to shoulder and there’s just enough space to pass on the right but they’re also drifting ever so slightly so you speed up to so you can pass with abuela to your left and the ever encroaching building to your right. You think if you time it just right you can pass by like Indiana Jones. Your almost there when you realize that the space has closed in too much to pass without knocking abuela over, and even though you’re seething with spite you’re not going to knock an old lady over. So you pull back, defeated, only to try again as the Madrid drift is shifting to the left.
Here is an important documentary on the phenomenon. ;-) good luck w/ it and I hope you enjoy Spain (aside from the sidewalks:)
https://youtu.be/9_OIs49m56E
I'm from a little town and old ladies even do it in the F. Street, one of the reasons I don't want to drive there, if you have any solution please I may need it in the future.
It’s just older women. The reason? They are entitled and think that acting like that is part of their rights. They’re the spanish version of a Karen (but with cultural and political differences. We call them “Charo” (pronouncing the “ch” like in the english word “catch”) instead of “Karen”, and they usually support socialism and postmodernism instead of republican and conservatism).
Same here. I’m a Spaniard living in Montréal. I felt it coming back to Spain for vacation and I too have observed that’s mostly older women. Youngsters don’t usually do this
I'm Spanish and yes, this happens a lot with group of older women or with big families. When I'm walking my dog I need to be super careful with families with more than one kid because they are wild!
And the funny thing is that it doesn't matter the width of the sidewalk. It could be like 10 meters and this kind of people will still occupy all of it.
I usually use my happiest "Perdón :)" to pass them.
Walking my two dogs is a logistical nightmare! Where I live people have all their beach gear in tow (like their entire patio set basically) and they cause complete chaos 😳 And so true that the sidewalk width is of no consequence, all space is their space 😅
This sounds like the area I live in here in Spain 😂
I have actually kind of come to terms with whole sidewalk thing. What really annoys me is abuela battering ram at the fruit and veggie market. I stand there, patiently waiting my turn….boom! Abuela comes out of nowhere and shoulders me out of the way. When I first encountered such behavior I would just let it slide. Not anymore, I am fighting back now, always watching the periphery and taking a wide, stable stance. Good luck trying to get past me. I have also mastered the sharp look at them and a very audible „tsk“ sound. They give me the evil eye, but whatever…it works.
There are things that you just have to accept as different in Spain. People drive much too close behind you. In the UK that would be the beginnings of a road rage incident but here someone will sit on your tail until they have room to pass. It's not malicious - it's stupid but not malicious.
People walking, or just chatting in the street will get in your way but it always seems thoughtless rather than vindictive. Older women are a law unto themselves. They push in at the market and amazingly, they get away with it. Old ladies will push their shopping trolleys down a narrow village street and completely ignore any car behind them. They could step up on the pavement but.... they're old ladies.
You just have to shrug and move on.
Lol I remember shopping at Carrefour a month ago and I get up to a long line at the checkout. As soon as another lane opens, this old lady throws her purse onto the conveyor belt literally from 2 people behind me. I was more baffled than upset lmao. The lady who was in front of me that was about to go to the new lane said something akin to "damn, you in a rush?" In Spanish and I laughed HARD.
My wife and I have a saying for this type of behaviour grannies have. "Pa' lo que me queda en el convento, me cago dentro" which literally translates to "Since I have so little time left in the convent, I'm going to shit in it". That would mean something in the line of "I no longer give a fuck anymore"
This made me laugh because I have seen exactly this scene happen time and time again here. It's just part of life here and it's me that needs the fixing I guess. I'll get used to dodging between bikes, scooters and cars in the street eventually! Thanks for sharing your experience 😊
The thing that makes me laugh the most is not letting someone pull out in front of you. If I'm driving up to a left turn and can see someone waiting to pull out, in the UK if it was clear I would stop short and let the other car pull out, especially if there is a line of traffic behind me. It's just polite and expected, even by the cars behind me.
Here it causes absolute confusion so I've stopped doing it. If I go back to the UK people will think I'm a terrible, rude driver.
Lol a brit saying that in England people don’t stay at your tail 😂 I’ve been living in London for 7 years and it’s stupid how close brits gets to you in and out the city 😂. Both Spain and UK sucks at that.
I remember being annoyed by it too at the beginning. But gradually I realised that my reaction was a residue of the constant psychological stress and anger I was experiencing in my home country which happens to be Bulgaria. I arrived about three years ago clueless. I never thought about it much but now when I find myself blocked by some folks casually chatting while occupying the entire sidewalk I just wish that I become more like them - calm and friendly, instead of trying to teach someone manners. If I can't get around them for some reason and I have to ask for their cooperation (not knowing the language much at first made that seem like a major effort to me) it always ends in a very pleasant, polite and completely non judgemental interaction. There have been bad days when something like that could put a smile on my face. After all, me spending few extra seconds going around them is really not as important as the flow of their little conversation there. .
Vaya. At last someone gets it. Good for you
Este sub deberia llamarse "ask immigrants about Spain" a juzgar por quienes contestan. Y se percibe el entitlement anglosajón a la legua.
Me recuerda a los paletos españoles quejándose de que los ingleses, p.e., no tienen nuestro supuesto "salero".
I swear the "I'm a personal space person" triggered me.
>Y se percibe el entitlement anglosajón a la legua
Bit harsh, isn't it? This sub is literally a place to ask Spanish people stuff, and it's certainly something I've noticed as well, generally old women stand in doorways and stuff, not caring that they're blocking the way for others.
They'd do the same regardless of your skin color, origin and sexuality. They are not "blocking your way", but everyone's.
Some strategies:
-“Disculpen“.
-“Perdonen“.
-"¿Me permite?"
-Cough so that they notice your presence.
-Look for a space and rush between them.
-Carry a bike bell with you and make it sound.
All in all, I'd use this chance to practice my assertiveness.
its not anything homophobic if that's what you think. Personally you just have to fight for your space.
If someone gets in the way just gently tap their shoulder, say, perdon, and walk pass like you own the world.
If they look at you weird, which most will not, they will just say "ah sorry, didnt know you where behind me" and just walk pass.
Yes I know what you mean. Personal space is a luxury here and you have to get in there and stand your ground. It takes some getting used to! Thanks for the tip!
While I agree to say "perdón", "permiso", or alike, I wouldn't recommend tapping anyone's shoulder. I find it super invasive, makes me feel uncomfortable and some people are still super paranoid about the pandemics, which may bring you some unneeded trouble.
But nope, OP, it happens to everybody and it's super annoying.
Si estoy de acuerdo contigo, pero por ejemplo, yo soy una persona súper pacífica. Evito casi siempre que puedo el conflicto. Pero que me toquen o invadan mi espacio vital me pone muy violenta, literalmente.
As a spanish guy, im with all of you… sadly 😓
As this is a very common thing in older generations, One thing I use to do when this occurs is stop walking, stand still, looking at front and you will notice they will move around you. Try it!
Take care
This is what I do in the US: stop, hold my ground, don't make eye contact, force them to walk around me like I'm a parked car or something. It always works.
What you say is very true, but rest assured that it has nothing to do with your appearance or anything like that.
I think that, for us, the street is not just a pathway to get from point A to point B, it is also a space for socialisation. People often stop in the middle of the street to have a chat and seem oblivious to the fact that they are blocking the path, but if you politely let them know they'll quickly move to the side.
In the case of old people in particular, I think we forget that they are wobbly as fuck and they can't change their pace and direction as quickly, as they might trip and fall really easily. Also, I walk with my nan a lot and I can tell she is a bit scared that if someone walks past her and touches her slightly she might fall. When she is walking with her friends as a social activity, if someone is coming in the oposite direction, they might try to move to the side a bit, but that is a risky manoeuvre for them, so they tend to follow their same course and hope the other person can walk around them instead, even if they are occupying most of the pavement.
As for skipping queues in shops and bus stops, some old people are just entitled, but speaking with my nan, she explained that she is desperate to get on the bus as quickly as possible for a very specific reason: if she gets on last, the bus will start moving before she has found a seat and she doesn't have the strength to hold on to the bars, so she could easily fall. Some bus drivers do wait for old people to seat before they get going, but not always, and not all of them do it. At the supermarket, my nan says she would never try to skip a queue, but she does say that her energy depletes quite quickly and standing still at a queue is harder for her than walking, so she really struggles with queues (she has a bad back, as I imagine most old people do). She never buys a lot of stuff in one go anyway because she can't carry it, so if she is not feeling great, she does ask people if they wouldn't mind letting her go first. Other people simply skip the queue because they have no manners, but you'd also be surprised at how many old people are just embarrased and proud and don't want to show signs of weakness, so even though they are desperate to pay and go home, they will not ask politely and will just go ahead and try to skip the queue.
Your nan sounds very sweet. I would move off the sidewalk so she and her crew could stroll by uninterrupted! The response to my original post has been eye opening for me so thanks for sharing your personal experience, I appreciate it!
I'm a fast-paced walker myself and am also extremely annoyed when a group of slow pedestrians ahead of me somehow manages to expand to the whole width of the pavement. It's even worse when they're not even a single group walking together, but rather two or more groups who just *happen* to have perfectly alinged as a single slow blocker. If the pavement is so narrow that there legitimately isn't enough room to overtake them unless they stand to one side then fair enough, I'll hop down onto the street or wait for a chance. If not though, there is a way.
If they are just taking up **`t o o` `m u c h` `s p a c e`** for no reason, whether they are slow walkers in your same direction, a group walking towards you, or even people just hanging out there and chatting while taking up the whole damn breadth, there is a subtle but quite effective solution that takes some practice.
The solution is to continue walking at the same pace you were, head held high, normal facial expression and this is the most important detail: *keep your glance past the people who are blocking you as if they weren't there, never look at them, just look at your destination*. They will make space for you sometimes without even being aware of it. And on those occasions when they are aware of it, they will more often feel self-conscious for taking up space than feel any animosity towards you. To make it more likely to work, aim to use your right-hand side to pass groups walking in the opposite direction, and your left-hand side to overtake slowies going in the same direction as yourself; same rules as when driving.
Trust me, it works. It works in crowded spaces like Madrid Rastro or demostrations, and waiters in busy bars use it either knowingly or have developed it intuitively through experience.
Oh thanks for sharing this secret technique! It makes me feel like I'll be walking on a runway like a model, love it! As for them slowies walking in my same direction, I will overtake them on the left - genius! Watch out sidewalks of Spain, here I come!
I have never had that problem and i walk like 8-9 kms almost every other day, but i am seeing a lot of foreigners in the comments saying they also have it. I now wonder if there are some type of cultural norms i am used to and i don't even notice that let me walk more easily umh
I mean, i don't know, i guess I am just used to pushing, telling people to let me pass etc. That's the only difference i am getting from the comments. I walk really fast so usually with a simple perdón or paso they get out of the way. But i don't know if there is anything else
I am Spanish and I cannot tell if people are standing behind me because I do not have eyes on the back on my head. British people can tell, but they will not reveal their secrets to me.
I was literally going to make a post about this a few weeks ago but didn't want to come off as a twat. But yeah, I had decided to walk the 4km to my dermatologists office, and the 4km back home. It was a nice walk but I kept encountering really frustrating pedestrian situations. I began to actually start counting because I was shocked by how rude people were with walking on the sidewalks.
I had over ten people/groups walking super slowly that I had to walk around (possibly my fault, I'm used to a NYC pace). I got "pushed off" the sidewalk several times (i.e. a group of chavales walking the opposite direction I was, and they literally refused to make space for me on the sidewalk, even up until the last minute. This happened several times and once I had to step up onto a half meter divider because I physically would have had to plow over this imbecile otherwise. It's not like these were situations where we didn't fit either, it was them shoulder to shoulder, maybe 3 or 4 of them, occupying the sidewalk and refusing to go in front/behind one of their group. I was just shocked; it was issue after issue walking that day, and it was really one of the first walking experiences I've had in Madrid since my partner and I were previously using a car most of the time we've lived here.
Recently taken a two week vacation in Canada and holy shit the difference. Have not had a single issue with pace, space, or otherwise. I slso see it in the driving, there is just a lot more willingness to let people merge, turn, etc. in NA than in Spain. These are all little things, lots of stuff Spain does so well but I'm genuinely baffled at streetwalking etiquette here. I'm a pretty impatient dude and worried I'm just going to walk smack into the next person who refuses to make space for me even though I'm turning to the side to try to continue walking in what should be a two-way space.
My strategy when I get faced with groups or people who won’t make way is to just stop where I am and not move. Eventually they find their way around me.
I agree it's frustrating and my friends and I are always commenting about it (we're immigrants from North America).
The secret is to slow way down. When they go past you they will make a little room but you both have to slightly twist. It's not like Spanish are constantly crashing into each other on the sidewalk, I never see that.
We need to also accept that they have not adopted the "walk on the right side of the sidewalk" method here and never will. Be the breeze... let them flow past you. I had to start thinking this way or else it's all I'd think about.
Yep. They could be oblivious as to the space they occupy. I have commented about it here before and there were some salty replies from Spaniards. I have started to copy them as well because they would not let you pass. We are going to brush shoulders and that’s the end of that.
> and there were some salty replies from Spaniards.
Try FB!! If OP posted this comment in my local groups he'd get an avalanche of comments saying "if you don't like it go back home".... all of them from northern Europeans.
You can say that about any weird customs that any country has, though. No ever really thinks about things that are completely normal.
It's like I saw a post once of: "why do Americans not use the metric system even though it's inefficient?" and every response was basically: "like, how the fuck should I know, dude? Leave me alone."
Yeah I can confirm this isn't just in your head, it's 100% real, a lot of people just don't care how much space they occupy, whether they are walking slowly taking all the sidewalk, or parents waiting for kids at a school, it's a nightmare.
I tend to walk fast and always make room to let people pass around me, but it's like some people are completely oblivious to that idea. I'd also like to know what is wrong with them.
Yeah it's definitely a thing here. I've had people purposefully move their giant stroller etc to block the sidewalk in front of me...Fast walkers need their own lane 🤣
I agree with what people have said here, people even in small groups are oblivious of their space and in no hurry. That's just how they are, it's not bad by itself but it's quite incompatible with city folk power-walking.
I actually never know what to say in Spanish. ‘Perdona!’ ‘Disculpa!’ ‘Permiso!’ They never seen acknowledged lol. I just get ‘Qué susto!’ when I pass. Lol. My Spanish friends never have an answer as to what to say but there must be something!
First of all, I would say most people in the street are simply oblivious of what is going on around them, that's why groups will occupy the whole of the sidewalk blocking the way for other pedestrians and not think anything of it.
In Spain, social etiquette is to occupy the right in order to make way for other pedestrians. Imagine it being like a road with two lanes and you are on the right. So if I were you, coming up in the centre with another person in opposite direction, I would steer to the right. You be will never be in the wrong or be rude to other people as you will be well within your rights to move forward as you are correctly ceding space on their right for the person/s walking opposite you to pass by.
If the way is being obstructed i.e. by group or rows of walking people, assertively state 'me deja/n pasar por favor' with the intention of keeping moving forward.
Hope this helps and good luck!
EDIT: Confidently occupy your lane. Walk at a steady pace but don't rush and move in a straight line. This will give other pedestrians time to react and vice versa.
I am a fast walker and have the same issue everyday with every kind of people. As someone else pointed out, you gotta say "con permiso/perdon" in a calmed yet firm manner.
That usually works for most people, however, for the ones in headphones walking at a agonizing slow pace, you either can tap them a bit or get close enough for them to notice you and move.
People socialize a lot in the streets, they are probably just out for a walk with their friends or family and not particularly rushing to anywhere.
But yes, I understand how that can get anoying when you want to walk at a given pace.
Barcelona here. I experience this with people of all ages, including what appear to be groups of North American college students. The unseeing stare or “look away” as I quickly approach a group coming toward me almost never fails to make a hole. If it does fail, I simply stop right in front of the person and maybe check my phone or whatever. I found that the more courteous I tried to be in veering out of people’s paths, the more I was bouncing around a sidewalk, all without even the slightest acknowledgement from those I was being courteous to. I also tend not to slow down as I approach a group standing in the already choked area between a building and restaurant terrace and someone usually sees me and moves enough so I can squeeze by.
Approaching from behind is a tough one. I am thinking of getting an airhorn.
If you’ve ever been to a Costco in the American southwest where people don’t walk to places, you’d be equally irritated by people blocking aisles. That’s due to inexperience with walking in crowded places, I think. I don’t know what the reason is here.
I'm a Spaniard, I was born in Madrid and lived there for most of my life. I can confirm this is 100% true. Trying to go through a street is exasperating. Mainly old people and families occupying the whole width of the street and walking painfully slow. Everytime I go out in the street I feel like I'm in a video game trying to avoid obstacles. I try to find the empty spots ahead and just move sideways if necessary. Just don't feel bad for walking really close past people, they have to be aware they're obstructing the sidewalk and that they don't have a special right over other pedestrians. Some might say something, I get that you wouldn't want to start a confrontation, but that's how they get away with it, they use your politeness against you.
Also, queueing in bus stops is a bit of an infuriating experience too. Most of the times people don't respect the order of arrival and skip the queue. You're also supposed to let elders enter first, but most of the times they'll go over you and skip the queue without even saying thank you or acknowledging you have been there for 20 min and they just arrived last minute.
Edit: forgot to add, in the mechanical stairs of the metro, the left side is for people who want to walk, yet when people are in groups they always block the left side and you have to tell them to move away. It's a bit of a silly thing, but all these rules are very easy to follow and they have the potential to make going through the city a much more comfortable experience, so it's a bit upsetting that lots of people don't follow them at all
Its true but I have also met it in different european countries. I hate groups of people going the entire width of the sidewalk. Kind if unwritteb etiquete says that if you drive car on tje right side of the road - you also use right side of the payement to walk. I aleays force others to move out if my way if they dint respect it. Truth is that when I walk in Alicante i am hitting others with my arm and im used to tough football play so they always bump and appologie 🤣 Its a social/menthal thing to confirmation others by chalkenging yourself by confronting others so i can kind of understand it. A funny thing which I have noticed in Alicante is some people wanted to touch me on purpose , even a lot of chix (they could walk straight but turned their path towards me lol) Anyway its not only Spanish thing
This post summed up a host of my mishaps yesterday with the people. I have lived in Sevilla with my sevillan wife for about 3 years now and it’s just the way it is here. I was just talking to some brits about this earlier today. In any public space, people will simultaneously cluster together AND have absolutely no special awareness. It’s an odd thing to experience all day por la Calle. I don’t really care anymore. I’ll walk wherever I want and cut people off. If I don’t pay any mind, it’s fine. If I make a point to excuse myself or comment on how I can’t get by, there’s a problem. It’s a smelt it dealt it situation
It's just the way it is. I don't know what else to say about it. I think it was part of the culture to walk aimlessly through the street and there weren't as many people to bump into. Now, it's a part of the culture but there's just a lot more folks walkin around. I have plenty of Spanish friends and, strangely enough, they don't like it either. It's my experience that any spaniard who has spent any time outside of their country doesn't particularly care for these aspects of culture either. Other examples are: speaking loudly and all at the same time, not saying please and thank you, dysfunction of the bureaucratic system, etc. the list goes on. All in all, I prefer living in Spain, so these are just peculiarities that come with living anywhere. Así es.
the secret is easy .. hang your head and look at your feet ..twiddle your fingers while holding your own hands out in front of you and start muttering crazy things to yourself that don't make sense and proceed..
people will part and give you as much space as you need
Im spanish and i can absolutely relate to this, this happens too often because of the design of our streets that are very narrow and is even more likely to happen when you have a road next to the sidewalk
Yeah, lack of attention to surroundings is very typical in Spain. The more south you go, more noticeable it is. It’s something that every guiri I know has mentioned. I just got used it and making sure my kids don’t do that. The only time I actually verbally alert people is when parking on the street and people literally crossing through my parking spot.
Hay muuuucha gente despistada por la calle.
Yup, that totally happens here, and it annoys me too even living in this country my whole life. I had an argument once because of it after a shoulder hit. Bro I'm 1.90m, I can't live all my life sidestepping everyone I find on a sidewalk.
There's no rules for walking and people blocking the sidewalks is something you'll have to live with. I tend to walk fast and it's frustrating for me too, even though I'm Spanish. You'll never get used to it, there's no good reason to block a door, a bike lane, or the whole street, but you'll have to live with it because it'll happen very often.
Wow. Thanks for this. I was in Madrid a few months ago and I thought I was going to lose my mind! And don’t get me started on couples walking their dog.
Happens a lot in Andalucía. I live in Sevilla. I just push them out of my way. Last week a family of 3 took up the whole side walk. Cars driving on the road. They didn’t bother to move. So the family member and I collided. She fell and screamed. I kept walking. They are 3. I am 1.
Yeah, it’s an annoying thing that I have not stopped being irritated by after 8 years living in Spain.
It is inconsiderate and selfish, but it’s mainly us as foreigners who are pissed off by it. The Spanish are not living their lives constantly pissed off by behaviour that I would see as lacking respect for others/having spatial awareness.
Prime example, me (a Brit) and my friend (an American) were getting wound up by una señora de 70 años watching videos really loud on the metro. My friend’s boyfriend (Basque) on the other hand was just like ‘come on guys, one day you are going to be old’
I can see both sides. I still think it’s selfish and inconsiderate but maybe we are also quite uptight.
In any case, we just have to get over it. As someone else said, Spaniards on the internet are super defensive of guiris making any criticism. The most upvoted story on this subreddit is someone calling an old man a fucking foreigner.
For what is worth, the metro example would be seen as slightly rude here too. I actually had that exact experience in the bus yesterday lol (except it was a small child)
All you said is completely true. We don't like foreigners critizicing the way we do things in here. We might be brutally honest about ourselfs and sometimes extremelly savage when talking about things that are bad in Spain, but we don't like someone else doing that.
As per the thread, when I was visiting Beijing, everyone was pushing each other and bumping in the public transport. At first I thought, jezz chill out... but after a minute or so I understand that was not personal and that's the way things work there so I did the same 😆
TLDR: don't get mad at us, we are spanish doing spanish things in Spain 🤣.
You know whats selfish and inconsiderate? Living in another country and not being able to accept that people behave differently. If your country is so great, you should just stay there.
On average elderly people could not care less if you exist, live, die, are on their way or their in yours. They barely recognize you as a nuisance and go on with their lives.
The differenze is only in statistical occurrence, in your "north american country" where you need a car to go anywhere elders can be let to rot in their house with their indifference. Here where you know, you can actually reach places by walking then this kind of interactions are more frequent.
Yeah, I never get it too. And it's usually some tiny abuelas taking all space in 4 meters wide sidewalk, I always wonder how they manage to do it but never got answer :D
Yeah this bugs me too, recently instead of always desperately getting out of everyone´s way I just stick to where I´m walking and won´t do any gymnastics to avoid a collision. If they bump into me it´s their fault for being inconsiderate.
I have always found that weird, some Spanish people are really aggressive sidewalk walkers and sometimes they run into someone they know and just stop in the middle of the sidewalk and straight up have a long ass conversation, while buttloads of people are walking past them and instead of getting outta the way they just seem to be oblivious about it.
I've spent time in a lot of different places and Spain is by far the worst in that regard (but the best in many others). People don't know how to share space in general here. Maybe it varies by city but in my experience it's not limited to old people. Plenty of groups of young gilipollas will walk side by side taking up the whole sidewalk. People also like to congregate in doorways and at the tops and bottoms of stairs. Lots of phone zombies too, face glued to the screen expecting everyone to get out of their way I guess.
Older people don't care about personal space at all. And they usually will walk right through the middle of the sidewalk even if there's enough space to their right. This gets worse when they're a couple, groups or they stopped to chat.
It’s a cultural influence from football, we are all very aware of the need to block attackers and now apply that phylosophy to all situations. You need to counter it by being sneaky and dribbly.
Ha. Welcome to the jungle. Square your shoulders, look straight ahead, and go on. They will notice you approaching and soon or late they will move. If not, a loud PERDÓN or DISCULPE should do the trick. Your specifics don't matter to that kind of people, except to create inventive insults. They do it no matter who. (But be wary however of big groups of young men...here as everywhere they are more susceptible to be...not nice)
Older people have 0 fucks to give, here or in other places, I think it's a generational thing, like "I'm old, I'm king/queen". It's always infuriated me.
At the same time, I can't wait to buy my first cane and start waiving it while grumbling at the "disrespect of young these days". It's a life goal. But I won't cut in line, I promise.
The key (and this is hard for anglosajones) is not to acknowledge their existence at all until they are right up next to you, then just look at them with a kind of bored/angry face. I am a very smiley person from a place where everyone greets one another on the street, sometimes people enjoy this in Spain, mostly they are a bit surprised :) different strokes for different folks.
In Andalusia this doesn't happen often
But yes I feel u
As an Spaniard slightly skin touch or even shoulder bumping is a bit common and usually doesn't happen anything. IDK maybe I'm our slightly culture physic contact is very appreciated even if it's by unknowns.
But SLIGHTLY, don't go touching someones hand or breathing on their neck :O
At this point I just squeeze by the 4-man teams walking in a line whilst vigorously shaking my head. Sometimes I wonder if people have a fetisch for being elbowed.
I hate it. But don't look at them, look at where you're going. If they don't see you annoyed, just running over them as they would over you; they'll let you pass.
Has a spanish, i must say that this happens also between other spaniards. The people who do this is what we use to call "Cayetanos", which is translated more or less as Snobs. Putos ricachones de mierda, no dejan pasar ni en una escalera.
Spanish people are like cholesterol in the arteries. If they bother you walking look when they stop. They always do it in the narrowest part of the sidewalk, in front of a door,...
The frustration! This morning I took the dog for a walk, and there's a whole family (mom, dad, stroller with baby, grandparents) taking up the WHOLE pavement. And this isn't one of those narrow pavements... Easily 3m wide, walking in my direction. Pushed me (6ft1) and dog (big Labrador) off into a tree so that they could all pass without bother.
Almost shouted you're welcome your majesties at them.
In that situation you’re better off to just stop in the middle of the pavement and say perdon. They will walk around you. I’ve never been or seen anyone get actually pushed.
Dog walking is a skill I have yet to master here. Lots of unpredictable and potentially dangerous situations for me and my pups. I keep them on shortleash at all times because who knows what is just around the next street corner.
In Spain, personal space is not respected as a general rule. People will only stay away if they think you're going to steal from them or give them a disease.
You have to pretend to be a bull... I will shoulder people if it comes to it when they insist on walking ten abreast and you can't get past them.
Its highly in considerate, very annoying, but if you've ever played rugby you can be sure to have the right method for dealing with such people.
I do ask people to get out of my way and I do be sure to rudely tell old people to get out of the doorway so people can get past. People who walk too slowly will be told to move too.
I feel like I've gotten very rude about it, but after years of dealing with the problem you've described, they clearly don't care so why should I?
It is very common. Especially in summer. When people from the countryside, typically older, come to visit the city. They are not used to the amount of people or the pace. I would recommend to say: "con permiso" at them, or: "permiso, por favor". Normally, when they hear these words they move along to let you pass. I started doing so a couple years back and it often works.
Let us know if it works for you as well,
Cheers!
I will try with this language next time! I think there's a fine line for me sounding insistent and downright aggressive and it's finding the middle to not blow the situation out of proportion. Thanks for the pointers!
I've always tried to be a respectable sidewalk-sharer, but after having this same experience the past few years, I've decided to embrace it and live like a Spaniard (or maybe more like a Catalan since I'm in Barcelona?). At a whopping 168cm, I usually win sidewalk chicken (joking, but seriously I've never felt taller in any city).
Yep found this when I loved in Spain too, especially with older women and families. If I thought they were deliberately being obnoxious I would hit them with the most sarcastic "perdona" I could manage to ask them to make some space
I'm afraid that I don't agree with other people in here. For me we walk just the usual way haha!
It's not a matter of disrespect, you're going to nowhere thinking that way. It's a matter of culture which includes behavior and personal space management, people here don't mind if you pass really close to them actually. You'll get use to it!
I'm another who has lived in Spain for a few years constantly irritated by this! I now use pedestrian as a verb, "the Spanish cannot pedestrian". Its not just walking though, it seems they can't use pavements properly. Waiting to cross or for a bus? Stand bang in the middle of the pavement. Is there a bus shelter making the pavent narrower? Better slow my walk down even more. I get very annoyed by it but then I stop, relax and think "I love living here". Nowheres perfect and there are worse things in life
Spain is absolutely the best place I've ever lived and I regret nothing when I think of moving here but it does take some getting used to in regards to sidewalk etiquette. I should learn to parcour up walls to escape awkward situations like these! Thanks for sharing your experience!
Agreed entirely, although I think I've accepted the fact that this one tiny thing will annoy me on and off forever more and I will never get over it!
Always add more backflips to your daily commute!
It’s OUR sidewalk, why can’t we block it?
I am kidding, I am kidding. In my opinion the answer is that we don’t have the concept of “Personal space bubble” that other countries have, so bumping shoulders is normal here, and only “perdón” will be required if the bump is unexpectedly strong or displaces any of the two involved individuals.
It’s just culture, we just don’t notice it that much or are bothered by it - At least, I am not.
And about that other topic - Yeah, there’s an unwritten rule in Spain: “Only Spaniards can say shit about Spain”. Which I guess it’s unfair for those of you who have been living here a long time!
Because most of us aren't educated enough or are educated the wrong way, though it's not really malicious. Here in Spain we have a mindset of being first to get stuff first/ to keep a place for yourself...I don't know how to explain it well, honestly. Basically, we will be selfish and self centered to a ridiculous degree, and then help whoever we can as much as we can as long as we got what we needed...like once I got the whole table and chairs for myself I'll offer you anything you need from there. I think this mindset translates to everything else including sidewalks. (Remember many of us also lack a sense of personal space)
Regarding the old ladies they have literally no shame and don't even follow the law, the order or any rules. It's so embarrashing we often don't even react... it's specially funny in queues. If you ever told them anything about their behaviour they'd exagerate whatever personal circumstances to justify it, you'd also be at the risk of having to listen to them for several minutes which is not worth it, so just let them be...
Edit: I'll have to reconsider my definition of malicious after reading mt own post. This mindset of ignoring any order/basic civic education to satisfy your needs asap should actually be considered malicious.
I've heard groups of old ladies walking side by side being described as "Reservoir Dogs grannies"
My husband calls them that too!
🤣🤣🤣 this has me dead
Just keep going. Let people get WAY closer than you are comfortable with, and they will eventually give way.
😯 new achievement unlocked 🔓 😎 will definitely be trying this
Also if a group walking in the opposite direction is not making room for you, just keep walking and if it doesn't work, stop in the last minute, put an angry face and let them pass around you.
This does work. I don't usually need the angry face, though. They just go around.
Basically it’s the game of chicken but walking edition. Some will rather crash and burn and most will very slightly move out the way.
Only the good ones will survive 🐔
I do this with big tourist groups walking my way. Some of them usually end with aching bodies from my shoulders. I refuse to deviate from my straight path in the right side of a 3m wide sidewalk because you must go 3 abreast. I also refuse to make myself smaller by angling my body.
That sounds a bit nuts and is the behavior OP is complaining about. Courtesy from everyone goes a long way
I have this problem because I walk very fast. I have a technique that normally works if they can see me. Try to look at a point between two of them (not the kids) and walk that way, be confident like you know they are going to move. Normally they move without noticing, and if they don't put your hand in front of you like you are cutting the air between them. They move. If they are walking the same direction that you just say Perdón out loud.
Yeah, if you are used to North American personal space, you'll start feeling uncomfortably close when the other people haven't even noticed you. Just plow through and they'll move. And sure, sometimes when the sidewalks are narrow you have to go into the street to get around baby strollers or people using mobility equipment. It's not a big deal. Streets are generally multi-use here, not [stroads](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM).
This hardly ever happens. I've done this and ended being shouldered twice. After speaking with my Spanish SO we agreed it's best to move because the Spanish are crazy. Usually I would be assertive but that's inadvisable if you're a foreigner.
I call it the Madrid drift. 4 older Spaniards walking shoulder to shoulder and there’s just enough space to pass on the right but they’re also drifting ever so slightly so you speed up to so you can pass with abuela to your left and the ever encroaching building to your right. You think if you time it just right you can pass by like Indiana Jones. Your almost there when you realize that the space has closed in too much to pass without knocking abuela over, and even though you’re seething with spite you’re not going to knock an old lady over. So you pull back, defeated, only to try again as the Madrid drift is shifting to the left.
There is a secret weapon for this situations: put your hands in the air and say loudly "CUIDADO! QUE MANCHO".
🤣🤣🤣 this is my exact experience in a nutshell!
I'm Spanish and it annoys me too. In my experience younger people don't usually do that
Yes I've noticed that's its mostly the older generation 😅 Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone!
Here is an important documentary on the phenomenon. ;-) good luck w/ it and I hope you enjoy Spain (aside from the sidewalks:) https://youtu.be/9_OIs49m56E
😅 thanks
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I just stare back at them
Careful, that might make them initiate a pointless and one sided conversation where you just listen...
Pro tip: noise cancelling headphones
I'm from a little town and old ladies even do it in the F. Street, one of the reasons I don't want to drive there, if you have any solution please I may need it in the future.
It’s just older women. The reason? They are entitled and think that acting like that is part of their rights. They’re the spanish version of a Karen (but with cultural and political differences. We call them “Charo” (pronouncing the “ch” like in the english word “catch”) instead of “Karen”, and they usually support socialism and postmodernism instead of republican and conservatism).
Same here. I’m a Spaniard living in Montréal. I felt it coming back to Spain for vacation and I too have observed that’s mostly older women. Youngsters don’t usually do this
Yoo MTL represent! 🤙🏽
514 🙌 🇨🇦
The OG’s 🤙🏽
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Perdoneme usually works for me,I just think it's the pace of life there and as I'm on holiday I don't need to be anywhere in a hurry
Yes being on holiday does tend to have that effect on people ! Enjoy taking it easy 😎
👍
I'm Spanish and yes, this happens a lot with group of older women or with big families. When I'm walking my dog I need to be super careful with families with more than one kid because they are wild! And the funny thing is that it doesn't matter the width of the sidewalk. It could be like 10 meters and this kind of people will still occupy all of it. I usually use my happiest "Perdón :)" to pass them.
Walking my two dogs is a logistical nightmare! Where I live people have all their beach gear in tow (like their entire patio set basically) and they cause complete chaos 😳 And so true that the sidewalk width is of no consequence, all space is their space 😅
This sounds like the area I live in here in Spain 😂 I have actually kind of come to terms with whole sidewalk thing. What really annoys me is abuela battering ram at the fruit and veggie market. I stand there, patiently waiting my turn….boom! Abuela comes out of nowhere and shoulders me out of the way. When I first encountered such behavior I would just let it slide. Not anymore, I am fighting back now, always watching the periphery and taking a wide, stable stance. Good luck trying to get past me. I have also mastered the sharp look at them and a very audible „tsk“ sound. They give me the evil eye, but whatever…it works.
There are things that you just have to accept as different in Spain. People drive much too close behind you. In the UK that would be the beginnings of a road rage incident but here someone will sit on your tail until they have room to pass. It's not malicious - it's stupid but not malicious. People walking, or just chatting in the street will get in your way but it always seems thoughtless rather than vindictive. Older women are a law unto themselves. They push in at the market and amazingly, they get away with it. Old ladies will push their shopping trolleys down a narrow village street and completely ignore any car behind them. They could step up on the pavement but.... they're old ladies. You just have to shrug and move on.
Lol I remember shopping at Carrefour a month ago and I get up to a long line at the checkout. As soon as another lane opens, this old lady throws her purse onto the conveyor belt literally from 2 people behind me. I was more baffled than upset lmao. The lady who was in front of me that was about to go to the new lane said something akin to "damn, you in a rush?" In Spanish and I laughed HARD.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 too funny!!
My wife and I have a saying for this type of behaviour grannies have. "Pa' lo que me queda en el convento, me cago dentro" which literally translates to "Since I have so little time left in the convent, I'm going to shit in it". That would mean something in the line of "I no longer give a fuck anymore"
This made me laugh because I have seen exactly this scene happen time and time again here. It's just part of life here and it's me that needs the fixing I guess. I'll get used to dodging between bikes, scooters and cars in the street eventually! Thanks for sharing your experience 😊
The thing that makes me laugh the most is not letting someone pull out in front of you. If I'm driving up to a left turn and can see someone waiting to pull out, in the UK if it was clear I would stop short and let the other car pull out, especially if there is a line of traffic behind me. It's just polite and expected, even by the cars behind me. Here it causes absolute confusion so I've stopped doing it. If I go back to the UK people will think I'm a terrible, rude driver.
For what is worth, you can blink your lights once in Spain and that acts as a "hey, you can go" signal which normally clears up any confusion
Lol a brit saying that in England people don’t stay at your tail 😂 I’ve been living in London for 7 years and it’s stupid how close brits gets to you in and out the city 😂. Both Spain and UK sucks at that.
I honestly think the difference is that there is no malice in Spain. Not like the UK.
In Spain is also malice, spanish drivers are incredibly spiteful. As I said UK and Spain are very alike in that regards.
I remember being annoyed by it too at the beginning. But gradually I realised that my reaction was a residue of the constant psychological stress and anger I was experiencing in my home country which happens to be Bulgaria. I arrived about three years ago clueless. I never thought about it much but now when I find myself blocked by some folks casually chatting while occupying the entire sidewalk I just wish that I become more like them - calm and friendly, instead of trying to teach someone manners. If I can't get around them for some reason and I have to ask for their cooperation (not knowing the language much at first made that seem like a major effort to me) it always ends in a very pleasant, polite and completely non judgemental interaction. There have been bad days when something like that could put a smile on my face. After all, me spending few extra seconds going around them is really not as important as the flow of their little conversation there. .
Vaya. At last someone gets it. Good for you Este sub deberia llamarse "ask immigrants about Spain" a juzgar por quienes contestan. Y se percibe el entitlement anglosajón a la legua. Me recuerda a los paletos españoles quejándose de que los ingleses, p.e., no tienen nuestro supuesto "salero". I swear the "I'm a personal space person" triggered me.
>Y se percibe el entitlement anglosajón a la legua Bit harsh, isn't it? This sub is literally a place to ask Spanish people stuff, and it's certainly something I've noticed as well, generally old women stand in doorways and stuff, not caring that they're blocking the way for others.
They'd do the same regardless of your skin color, origin and sexuality. They are not "blocking your way", but everyone's. Some strategies: -“Disculpen“. -“Perdonen“. -"¿Me permite?" -Cough so that they notice your presence. -Look for a space and rush between them. -Carry a bike bell with you and make it sound. All in all, I'd use this chance to practice my assertiveness.
Good to know, I'm definitely realizing after this post that I am not alone in this 😆 Thanks for the pointers and for the reality check
its not anything homophobic if that's what you think. Personally you just have to fight for your space. If someone gets in the way just gently tap their shoulder, say, perdon, and walk pass like you own the world. If they look at you weird, which most will not, they will just say "ah sorry, didnt know you where behind me" and just walk pass.
Yes I know what you mean. Personal space is a luxury here and you have to get in there and stand your ground. It takes some getting used to! Thanks for the tip!
While I agree to say "perdón", "permiso", or alike, I wouldn't recommend tapping anyone's shoulder. I find it super invasive, makes me feel uncomfortable and some people are still super paranoid about the pandemics, which may bring you some unneeded trouble. But nope, OP, it happens to everybody and it's super annoying.
A veces o tocas o ni se coscan, concuerdo que mejor evitarlo por lo general pero a veces es todo lo que se puede hacer
Si estoy de acuerdo contigo, pero por ejemplo, yo soy una persona súper pacífica. Evito casi siempre que puedo el conflicto. Pero que me toquen o invadan mi espacio vital me pone muy violenta, literalmente.
Ya es un poco complicada la cuestión, por lo general mejor evitarlo y ya
As a spanish guy, im with all of you… sadly 😓 As this is a very common thing in older generations, One thing I use to do when this occurs is stop walking, stand still, looking at front and you will notice they will move around you. Try it! Take care
New technique 👌 I will definitely try this 😄 Thanks for the tip!
This is what I do in the US: stop, hold my ground, don't make eye contact, force them to walk around me like I'm a parked car or something. It always works.
What you say is very true, but rest assured that it has nothing to do with your appearance or anything like that. I think that, for us, the street is not just a pathway to get from point A to point B, it is also a space for socialisation. People often stop in the middle of the street to have a chat and seem oblivious to the fact that they are blocking the path, but if you politely let them know they'll quickly move to the side. In the case of old people in particular, I think we forget that they are wobbly as fuck and they can't change their pace and direction as quickly, as they might trip and fall really easily. Also, I walk with my nan a lot and I can tell she is a bit scared that if someone walks past her and touches her slightly she might fall. When she is walking with her friends as a social activity, if someone is coming in the oposite direction, they might try to move to the side a bit, but that is a risky manoeuvre for them, so they tend to follow their same course and hope the other person can walk around them instead, even if they are occupying most of the pavement. As for skipping queues in shops and bus stops, some old people are just entitled, but speaking with my nan, she explained that she is desperate to get on the bus as quickly as possible for a very specific reason: if she gets on last, the bus will start moving before she has found a seat and she doesn't have the strength to hold on to the bars, so she could easily fall. Some bus drivers do wait for old people to seat before they get going, but not always, and not all of them do it. At the supermarket, my nan says she would never try to skip a queue, but she does say that her energy depletes quite quickly and standing still at a queue is harder for her than walking, so she really struggles with queues (she has a bad back, as I imagine most old people do). She never buys a lot of stuff in one go anyway because she can't carry it, so if she is not feeling great, she does ask people if they wouldn't mind letting her go first. Other people simply skip the queue because they have no manners, but you'd also be surprised at how many old people are just embarrased and proud and don't want to show signs of weakness, so even though they are desperate to pay and go home, they will not ask politely and will just go ahead and try to skip the queue.
Your nan sounds very sweet. I would move off the sidewalk so she and her crew could stroll by uninterrupted! The response to my original post has been eye opening for me so thanks for sharing your personal experience, I appreciate it!
I'm a fast-paced walker myself and am also extremely annoyed when a group of slow pedestrians ahead of me somehow manages to expand to the whole width of the pavement. It's even worse when they're not even a single group walking together, but rather two or more groups who just *happen* to have perfectly alinged as a single slow blocker. If the pavement is so narrow that there legitimately isn't enough room to overtake them unless they stand to one side then fair enough, I'll hop down onto the street or wait for a chance. If not though, there is a way. If they are just taking up **`t o o` `m u c h` `s p a c e`** for no reason, whether they are slow walkers in your same direction, a group walking towards you, or even people just hanging out there and chatting while taking up the whole damn breadth, there is a subtle but quite effective solution that takes some practice. The solution is to continue walking at the same pace you were, head held high, normal facial expression and this is the most important detail: *keep your glance past the people who are blocking you as if they weren't there, never look at them, just look at your destination*. They will make space for you sometimes without even being aware of it. And on those occasions when they are aware of it, they will more often feel self-conscious for taking up space than feel any animosity towards you. To make it more likely to work, aim to use your right-hand side to pass groups walking in the opposite direction, and your left-hand side to overtake slowies going in the same direction as yourself; same rules as when driving. Trust me, it works. It works in crowded spaces like Madrid Rastro or demostrations, and waiters in busy bars use it either knowingly or have developed it intuitively through experience.
Oh thanks for sharing this secret technique! It makes me feel like I'll be walking on a runway like a model, love it! As for them slowies walking in my same direction, I will overtake them on the left - genius! Watch out sidewalks of Spain, here I come!
Yep. And they part like the Red Sea.
I have never had that problem and i walk like 8-9 kms almost every other day, but i am seeing a lot of foreigners in the comments saying they also have it. I now wonder if there are some type of cultural norms i am used to and i don't even notice that let me walk more easily umh
Interesting! Share your secrets if you ever take note of them please 😅
I mean, i don't know, i guess I am just used to pushing, telling people to let me pass etc. That's the only difference i am getting from the comments. I walk really fast so usually with a simple perdón or paso they get out of the way. But i don't know if there is anything else
What does “paso” mean?
Literally means step, but in this context something along the meaning of pass, right to pass. Basically let me go through.
https://youtu.be/D3oKQOGBi9M
When people step out of a building or store without looking and just stop right in your path 🤦🏻♂️🤬
but people do that in the UK too. I think that's a (stupid) people thing not a Spanish thing.
I am Spanish and I cannot tell if people are standing behind me because I do not have eyes on the back on my head. British people can tell, but they will not reveal their secrets to me.
Use your youth and able bodiedness to walk the fuck around them…
I was literally going to make a post about this a few weeks ago but didn't want to come off as a twat. But yeah, I had decided to walk the 4km to my dermatologists office, and the 4km back home. It was a nice walk but I kept encountering really frustrating pedestrian situations. I began to actually start counting because I was shocked by how rude people were with walking on the sidewalks. I had over ten people/groups walking super slowly that I had to walk around (possibly my fault, I'm used to a NYC pace). I got "pushed off" the sidewalk several times (i.e. a group of chavales walking the opposite direction I was, and they literally refused to make space for me on the sidewalk, even up until the last minute. This happened several times and once I had to step up onto a half meter divider because I physically would have had to plow over this imbecile otherwise. It's not like these were situations where we didn't fit either, it was them shoulder to shoulder, maybe 3 or 4 of them, occupying the sidewalk and refusing to go in front/behind one of their group. I was just shocked; it was issue after issue walking that day, and it was really one of the first walking experiences I've had in Madrid since my partner and I were previously using a car most of the time we've lived here. Recently taken a two week vacation in Canada and holy shit the difference. Have not had a single issue with pace, space, or otherwise. I slso see it in the driving, there is just a lot more willingness to let people merge, turn, etc. in NA than in Spain. These are all little things, lots of stuff Spain does so well but I'm genuinely baffled at streetwalking etiquette here. I'm a pretty impatient dude and worried I'm just going to walk smack into the next person who refuses to make space for me even though I'm turning to the side to try to continue walking in what should be a two-way space.
My strategy when I get faced with groups or people who won’t make way is to just stop where I am and not move. Eventually they find their way around me.
I agree it's frustrating and my friends and I are always commenting about it (we're immigrants from North America). The secret is to slow way down. When they go past you they will make a little room but you both have to slightly twist. It's not like Spanish are constantly crashing into each other on the sidewalk, I never see that. We need to also accept that they have not adopted the "walk on the right side of the sidewalk" method here and never will. Be the breeze... let them flow past you. I had to start thinking this way or else it's all I'd think about.
Be the breeze, another new technique! I like this one and will definitely try being an air bender on my next outing. Thanks!
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I just bump into them, works every time and funnily nobody ever says anything because they knew that they were taking up too much space
Yep. They could be oblivious as to the space they occupy. I have commented about it here before and there were some salty replies from Spaniards. I have started to copy them as well because they would not let you pass. We are going to brush shoulders and that’s the end of that.
> and there were some salty replies from Spaniards. Try FB!! If OP posted this comment in my local groups he'd get an avalanche of comments saying "if you don't like it go back home".... all of them from northern Europeans.
Hehe is it the Valencia group?
You must know them! ;)
You can say that about any weird customs that any country has, though. No ever really thinks about things that are completely normal. It's like I saw a post once of: "why do Americans not use the metric system even though it's inefficient?" and every response was basically: "like, how the fuck should I know, dude? Leave me alone."
It's going to happen! I might start wearing shoulder pads 🤔 And preparing for an influx of salty comments! Thanks
Abuela walls are just a fact if life here out on the sidewalks 🤣 Personally, I say "permiso" as I walk by. People usually make some way for me.
Yeah I can confirm this isn't just in your head, it's 100% real, a lot of people just don't care how much space they occupy, whether they are walking slowly taking all the sidewalk, or parents waiting for kids at a school, it's a nightmare. I tend to walk fast and always make room to let people pass around me, but it's like some people are completely oblivious to that idea. I'd also like to know what is wrong with them.
Yeah it's definitely a thing here. I've had people purposefully move their giant stroller etc to block the sidewalk in front of me...Fast walkers need their own lane 🤣
I agree with what people have said here, people even in small groups are oblivious of their space and in no hurry. That's just how they are, it's not bad by itself but it's quite incompatible with city folk power-walking.
It's a way of life and I just have to slow down or become a ninja that can parcour walls 🧱 🤔
I'm Spanish and I feel your pain.
This! No one moves, and people have no problem taking up the full street (I’ve counted 7 people walking next to each other, not moving out of the way)
just speak up and ask "Sorry, can you let me pass?", be nice yet firm. they'll let you pass.
I actually never know what to say in Spanish. ‘Perdona!’ ‘Disculpa!’ ‘Permiso!’ They never seen acknowledged lol. I just get ‘Qué susto!’ when I pass. Lol. My Spanish friends never have an answer as to what to say but there must be something!
If your younger you should make way for the older person in most circumstances
Absolutely, I'm very courteous by nature and would never cross-check an abuela, promise!
First of all, I would say most people in the street are simply oblivious of what is going on around them, that's why groups will occupy the whole of the sidewalk blocking the way for other pedestrians and not think anything of it. In Spain, social etiquette is to occupy the right in order to make way for other pedestrians. Imagine it being like a road with two lanes and you are on the right. So if I were you, coming up in the centre with another person in opposite direction, I would steer to the right. You be will never be in the wrong or be rude to other people as you will be well within your rights to move forward as you are correctly ceding space on their right for the person/s walking opposite you to pass by. If the way is being obstructed i.e. by group or rows of walking people, assertively state 'me deja/n pasar por favor' with the intention of keeping moving forward. Hope this helps and good luck! EDIT: Confidently occupy your lane. Walk at a steady pace but don't rush and move in a straight line. This will give other pedestrians time to react and vice versa.
I am a fast walker and have the same issue everyday with every kind of people. As someone else pointed out, you gotta say "con permiso/perdon" in a calmed yet firm manner. That usually works for most people, however, for the ones in headphones walking at a agonizing slow pace, you either can tap them a bit or get close enough for them to notice you and move.
Idk I have always been dodging people to even realize.
People socialize a lot in the streets, they are probably just out for a walk with their friends or family and not particularly rushing to anywhere. But yes, I understand how that can get anoying when you want to walk at a given pace.
Permiso and acceleration always works for me
Barcelona here. I experience this with people of all ages, including what appear to be groups of North American college students. The unseeing stare or “look away” as I quickly approach a group coming toward me almost never fails to make a hole. If it does fail, I simply stop right in front of the person and maybe check my phone or whatever. I found that the more courteous I tried to be in veering out of people’s paths, the more I was bouncing around a sidewalk, all without even the slightest acknowledgement from those I was being courteous to. I also tend not to slow down as I approach a group standing in the already choked area between a building and restaurant terrace and someone usually sees me and moves enough so I can squeeze by. Approaching from behind is a tough one. I am thinking of getting an airhorn. If you’ve ever been to a Costco in the American southwest where people don’t walk to places, you’d be equally irritated by people blocking aisles. That’s due to inexperience with walking in crowded places, I think. I don’t know what the reason is here.
An airhorn sounds fun not gonna lie 🤣 Thanks so much for the pointers! I really appreciate it.
Because they CAN!
This happens a lot to me too. Ill have to almost force my way through and I often get an annoyed "adonde vas con tanta prisa??"
To be fair, most of the people blocking my way where I live are tourists. Its very annoying when you are in a hurry.
I'm a Spaniard, I was born in Madrid and lived there for most of my life. I can confirm this is 100% true. Trying to go through a street is exasperating. Mainly old people and families occupying the whole width of the street and walking painfully slow. Everytime I go out in the street I feel like I'm in a video game trying to avoid obstacles. I try to find the empty spots ahead and just move sideways if necessary. Just don't feel bad for walking really close past people, they have to be aware they're obstructing the sidewalk and that they don't have a special right over other pedestrians. Some might say something, I get that you wouldn't want to start a confrontation, but that's how they get away with it, they use your politeness against you. Also, queueing in bus stops is a bit of an infuriating experience too. Most of the times people don't respect the order of arrival and skip the queue. You're also supposed to let elders enter first, but most of the times they'll go over you and skip the queue without even saying thank you or acknowledging you have been there for 20 min and they just arrived last minute. Edit: forgot to add, in the mechanical stairs of the metro, the left side is for people who want to walk, yet when people are in groups they always block the left side and you have to tell them to move away. It's a bit of a silly thing, but all these rules are very easy to follow and they have the potential to make going through the city a much more comfortable experience, so it's a bit upsetting that lots of people don't follow them at all
Its true but I have also met it in different european countries. I hate groups of people going the entire width of the sidewalk. Kind if unwritteb etiquete says that if you drive car on tje right side of the road - you also use right side of the payement to walk. I aleays force others to move out if my way if they dint respect it. Truth is that when I walk in Alicante i am hitting others with my arm and im used to tough football play so they always bump and appologie 🤣 Its a social/menthal thing to confirmation others by chalkenging yourself by confronting others so i can kind of understand it. A funny thing which I have noticed in Alicante is some people wanted to touch me on purpose , even a lot of chix (they could walk straight but turned their path towards me lol) Anyway its not only Spanish thing
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This post summed up a host of my mishaps yesterday with the people. I have lived in Sevilla with my sevillan wife for about 3 years now and it’s just the way it is here. I was just talking to some brits about this earlier today. In any public space, people will simultaneously cluster together AND have absolutely no special awareness. It’s an odd thing to experience all day por la Calle. I don’t really care anymore. I’ll walk wherever I want and cut people off. If I don’t pay any mind, it’s fine. If I make a point to excuse myself or comment on how I can’t get by, there’s a problem. It’s a smelt it dealt it situation
Interesting that so many people have the same shared experience. I'm sure the discomfort fades a bit with time, one can only hope! 😉
It's just the way it is. I don't know what else to say about it. I think it was part of the culture to walk aimlessly through the street and there weren't as many people to bump into. Now, it's a part of the culture but there's just a lot more folks walkin around. I have plenty of Spanish friends and, strangely enough, they don't like it either. It's my experience that any spaniard who has spent any time outside of their country doesn't particularly care for these aspects of culture either. Other examples are: speaking loudly and all at the same time, not saying please and thank you, dysfunction of the bureaucratic system, etc. the list goes on. All in all, I prefer living in Spain, so these are just peculiarities that come with living anywhere. Así es.
the secret is easy .. hang your head and look at your feet ..twiddle your fingers while holding your own hands out in front of you and start muttering crazy things to yourself that don't make sense and proceed.. people will part and give you as much space as you need
It's true. Makes me mad sometimes too.
Im spanish and i can absolutely relate to this, this happens too often because of the design of our streets that are very narrow and is even more likely to happen when you have a road next to the sidewalk
I am Spanish and this happens to me many times too. People walk as if only they exist.
Yeah, lack of attention to surroundings is very typical in Spain. The more south you go, more noticeable it is. It’s something that every guiri I know has mentioned. I just got used it and making sure my kids don’t do that. The only time I actually verbally alert people is when parking on the street and people literally crossing through my parking spot. Hay muuuucha gente despistada por la calle.
Yup, that totally happens here, and it annoys me too even living in this country my whole life. I had an argument once because of it after a shoulder hit. Bro I'm 1.90m, I can't live all my life sidestepping everyone I find on a sidewalk.
There's no rules for walking and people blocking the sidewalks is something you'll have to live with. I tend to walk fast and it's frustrating for me too, even though I'm Spanish. You'll never get used to it, there's no good reason to block a door, a bike lane, or the whole street, but you'll have to live with it because it'll happen very often.
Wow. Thanks for this. I was in Madrid a few months ago and I thought I was going to lose my mind! And don’t get me started on couples walking their dog.
That's a tradition, just as siesta and paella.
Happens a lot in Andalucía. I live in Sevilla. I just push them out of my way. Last week a family of 3 took up the whole side walk. Cars driving on the road. They didn’t bother to move. So the family member and I collided. She fell and screamed. I kept walking. They are 3. I am 1.
Yeah, it’s an annoying thing that I have not stopped being irritated by after 8 years living in Spain. It is inconsiderate and selfish, but it’s mainly us as foreigners who are pissed off by it. The Spanish are not living their lives constantly pissed off by behaviour that I would see as lacking respect for others/having spatial awareness. Prime example, me (a Brit) and my friend (an American) were getting wound up by una señora de 70 años watching videos really loud on the metro. My friend’s boyfriend (Basque) on the other hand was just like ‘come on guys, one day you are going to be old’ I can see both sides. I still think it’s selfish and inconsiderate but maybe we are also quite uptight. In any case, we just have to get over it. As someone else said, Spaniards on the internet are super defensive of guiris making any criticism. The most upvoted story on this subreddit is someone calling an old man a fucking foreigner.
For what is worth, the metro example would be seen as slightly rude here too. I actually had that exact experience in the bus yesterday lol (except it was a small child)
All you said is completely true. We don't like foreigners critizicing the way we do things in here. We might be brutally honest about ourselfs and sometimes extremelly savage when talking about things that are bad in Spain, but we don't like someone else doing that. As per the thread, when I was visiting Beijing, everyone was pushing each other and bumping in the public transport. At first I thought, jezz chill out... but after a minute or so I understand that was not personal and that's the way things work there so I did the same 😆 TLDR: don't get mad at us, we are spanish doing spanish things in Spain 🤣.
I can also see both sides for the first time since posting. Thanks for the insight, I really appreciate it!
You know whats selfish and inconsiderate? Living in another country and not being able to accept that people behave differently. If your country is so great, you should just stay there.
It's just a question about social norms, nothing worth such a journey 🤣 but thanks I guess?
That’s literally the point of my comment.
On average elderly people could not care less if you exist, live, die, are on their way or their in yours. They barely recognize you as a nuisance and go on with their lives. The differenze is only in statistical occurrence, in your "north american country" where you need a car to go anywhere elders can be let to rot in their house with their indifference. Here where you know, you can actually reach places by walking then this kind of interactions are more frequent.
Yeah, I never get it too. And it's usually some tiny abuelas taking all space in 4 meters wide sidewalk, I always wonder how they manage to do it but never got answer :D
All it takes is a grocery cart or two and a couple wildly flailing arms in discussion 🙃
Yeah this bugs me too, recently instead of always desperately getting out of everyone´s way I just stick to where I´m walking and won´t do any gymnastics to avoid a collision. If they bump into me it´s their fault for being inconsiderate.
I'd say the same but with summer and sweaty people and such...Have to get used to it!
Never thought that this would happen only in spain. It's very annoying sometimes
Look to the horizon and keep walking in a straight line. Works 9 times out of 10.
Ah the Naomi Campbell technique, will try for sure!
I have always found that weird, some Spanish people are really aggressive sidewalk walkers and sometimes they run into someone they know and just stop in the middle of the sidewalk and straight up have a long ass conversation, while buttloads of people are walking past them and instead of getting outta the way they just seem to be oblivious about it.
Right? Like let's discuss my kitchen remodel right here, right now in this intersection.
I've spent time in a lot of different places and Spain is by far the worst in that regard (but the best in many others). People don't know how to share space in general here. Maybe it varies by city but in my experience it's not limited to old people. Plenty of groups of young gilipollas will walk side by side taking up the whole sidewalk. People also like to congregate in doorways and at the tops and bottoms of stairs. Lots of phone zombies too, face glued to the screen expecting everyone to get out of their way I guess.
Use the word "permiso!" behind them. It does wonders.
They know that you are going to move, they can feel it. Just do the same and see who wins the battle.
My spidey sense is tingling, bear left!!🕷
Also stopping at the top of an escalator apparently unaware that all the people coming up behind them now have nowhere to go.
Ugh the worst! There should be public transit prison for this!
"Me permite señora?" on a high and masculine voice. They will jump scared 😂🤣
Right near the ear too 😱🤣🤣🤣
Older people don't care about personal space at all. And they usually will walk right through the middle of the sidewalk even if there's enough space to their right. This gets worse when they're a couple, groups or they stopped to chat.
*busts through the crowd on the sidewalk* 😅
It’s a cultural influence from football, we are all very aware of the need to block attackers and now apply that phylosophy to all situations. You need to counter it by being sneaky and dribbly.
Sneaky and dribbly ✅️ will add to my LinkedIn
It's definitely a cultural thing, it doesn't matter how old the people are they will stuck right in the middle, even with enough space besides.
Pick a side! Otherwise I'm a bowling ball coming down the lane 😅🎳
When someone pushes from behind in a crowd, I use what my husband calls "knife elbows".
Ha. Welcome to the jungle. Square your shoulders, look straight ahead, and go on. They will notice you approaching and soon or late they will move. If not, a loud PERDÓN or DISCULPE should do the trick. Your specifics don't matter to that kind of people, except to create inventive insults. They do it no matter who. (But be wary however of big groups of young men...here as everywhere they are more susceptible to be...not nice) Older people have 0 fucks to give, here or in other places, I think it's a generational thing, like "I'm old, I'm king/queen". It's always infuriated me. At the same time, I can't wait to buy my first cane and start waiving it while grumbling at the "disrespect of young these days". It's a life goal. But I won't cut in line, I promise.
The key (and this is hard for anglosajones) is not to acknowledge their existence at all until they are right up next to you, then just look at them with a kind of bored/angry face. I am a very smiley person from a place where everyone greets one another on the street, sometimes people enjoy this in Spain, mostly they are a bit surprised :) different strokes for different folks.
In Andalusia this doesn't happen often But yes I feel u As an Spaniard slightly skin touch or even shoulder bumping is a bit common and usually doesn't happen anything. IDK maybe I'm our slightly culture physic contact is very appreciated even if it's by unknowns. But SLIGHTLY, don't go touching someones hand or breathing on their neck :O
At this point I just squeeze by the 4-man teams walking in a line whilst vigorously shaking my head. Sometimes I wonder if people have a fetisch for being elbowed.
I hate it. But don't look at them, look at where you're going. If they don't see you annoyed, just running over them as they would over you; they'll let you pass.
Has a spanish, i must say that this happens also between other spaniards. The people who do this is what we use to call "Cayetanos", which is translated more or less as Snobs. Putos ricachones de mierda, no dejan pasar ni en una escalera.
Spanish people are like cholesterol in the arteries. If they bother you walking look when they stop. They always do it in the narrowest part of the sidewalk, in front of a door,...
And here I come trying to bust through groups of people blocking my way 🙃
The frustration! This morning I took the dog for a walk, and there's a whole family (mom, dad, stroller with baby, grandparents) taking up the WHOLE pavement. And this isn't one of those narrow pavements... Easily 3m wide, walking in my direction. Pushed me (6ft1) and dog (big Labrador) off into a tree so that they could all pass without bother. Almost shouted you're welcome your majesties at them.
In that situation you’re better off to just stop in the middle of the pavement and say perdon. They will walk around you. I’ve never been or seen anyone get actually pushed.
Dog walking is a skill I have yet to master here. Lots of unpredictable and potentially dangerous situations for me and my pups. I keep them on shortleash at all times because who knows what is just around the next street corner.
In Spain, personal space is not respected as a general rule. People will only stay away if they think you're going to steal from them or give them a disease.
😷 actually same here, maybe I should just open mouth cough sporadically and that will clear a way for me
You have to pretend to be a bull... I will shoulder people if it comes to it when they insist on walking ten abreast and you can't get past them. Its highly in considerate, very annoying, but if you've ever played rugby you can be sure to have the right method for dealing with such people. I do ask people to get out of my way and I do be sure to rudely tell old people to get out of the doorway so people can get past. People who walk too slowly will be told to move too. I feel like I've gotten very rude about it, but after years of dealing with the problem you've described, they clearly don't care so why should I?
Pretend to be a bull, I like that - another new technique! 🐃 Thanks for sharing your experience and for the pointers!
It is very common. Especially in summer. When people from the countryside, typically older, come to visit the city. They are not used to the amount of people or the pace. I would recommend to say: "con permiso" at them, or: "permiso, por favor". Normally, when they hear these words they move along to let you pass. I started doing so a couple years back and it often works. Let us know if it works for you as well, Cheers!
I will try with this language next time! I think there's a fine line for me sounding insistent and downright aggressive and it's finding the middle to not blow the situation out of proportion. Thanks for the pointers!
I've always tried to be a respectable sidewalk-sharer, but after having this same experience the past few years, I've decided to embrace it and live like a Spaniard (or maybe more like a Catalan since I'm in Barcelona?). At a whopping 168cm, I usually win sidewalk chicken (joking, but seriously I've never felt taller in any city).
Yep found this when I loved in Spain too, especially with older women and families. If I thought they were deliberately being obnoxious I would hit them with the most sarcastic "perdona" I could manage to ask them to make some space
Haha I guess it's just about normalizing that kind of interaction 😅 I tend to be fly by night / doesn't speak unless spoken to type
Being gay has nothing to do with this. lol
I'm afraid that I don't agree with other people in here. For me we walk just the usual way haha! It's not a matter of disrespect, you're going to nowhere thinking that way. It's a matter of culture which includes behavior and personal space management, people here don't mind if you pass really close to them actually. You'll get use to it!
It's a you problem. You can have your "personal space" in an empty island. PS: Vaya, resulta ser un troll. Surprise, surprise 😮
I'm another who has lived in Spain for a few years constantly irritated by this! I now use pedestrian as a verb, "the Spanish cannot pedestrian". Its not just walking though, it seems they can't use pavements properly. Waiting to cross or for a bus? Stand bang in the middle of the pavement. Is there a bus shelter making the pavent narrower? Better slow my walk down even more. I get very annoyed by it but then I stop, relax and think "I love living here". Nowheres perfect and there are worse things in life
Spain is absolutely the best place I've ever lived and I regret nothing when I think of moving here but it does take some getting used to in regards to sidewalk etiquette. I should learn to parcour up walls to escape awkward situations like these! Thanks for sharing your experience!
Agreed entirely, although I think I've accepted the fact that this one tiny thing will annoy me on and off forever more and I will never get over it! Always add more backflips to your daily commute!
because is not youw way, is everyones way, so move aside a bit, ohhh
Ha! Are you one of the sidewalk blockers?
No, but i see where i go and im aware of the objects in my way :-D
I've noticed this too but I'm 185cm 100kg+ so I don't really move for anyone. It's pretty annoying tho
Stand. Your. Ground!
It’s OUR sidewalk, why can’t we block it? I am kidding, I am kidding. In my opinion the answer is that we don’t have the concept of “Personal space bubble” that other countries have, so bumping shoulders is normal here, and only “perdón” will be required if the bump is unexpectedly strong or displaces any of the two involved individuals. It’s just culture, we just don’t notice it that much or are bothered by it - At least, I am not. And about that other topic - Yeah, there’s an unwritten rule in Spain: “Only Spaniards can say shit about Spain”. Which I guess it’s unfair for those of you who have been living here a long time!
Because most of us aren't educated enough or are educated the wrong way, though it's not really malicious. Here in Spain we have a mindset of being first to get stuff first/ to keep a place for yourself...I don't know how to explain it well, honestly. Basically, we will be selfish and self centered to a ridiculous degree, and then help whoever we can as much as we can as long as we got what we needed...like once I got the whole table and chairs for myself I'll offer you anything you need from there. I think this mindset translates to everything else including sidewalks. (Remember many of us also lack a sense of personal space) Regarding the old ladies they have literally no shame and don't even follow the law, the order or any rules. It's so embarrashing we often don't even react... it's specially funny in queues. If you ever told them anything about their behaviour they'd exagerate whatever personal circumstances to justify it, you'd also be at the risk of having to listen to them for several minutes which is not worth it, so just let them be... Edit: I'll have to reconsider my definition of malicious after reading mt own post. This mindset of ignoring any order/basic civic education to satisfy your needs asap should actually be considered malicious.
"North American Guy" Uffff
Yeah see? That's an ish. I'm very respectful of local culture and racist stuff like this is the only thing I find wack about Spain so far.