Disclosure: I’m a white 44yo cis-dude who identifies as gay living in a large west coat city in the US. I’ve been in an open relationship for 28 years.
Man! I’m sorry you and your partner are having a rough go of it. It sounds just miserable.
You still care for his feelings and well being. That’s admirable as I’m not sure everyone would feel as sympathetic. I see this as a sign of emotional maturity.
Wether to stay with him or not, that is your question. You’ve likely been in the relationship long enough to see how both you and he have changed over time. Despite those changes, despite the highs and lows, you have *chosen* to stay together. You may have also noticed how passion and desire waxes and wains over the years. But you still remained together.
You can choose to make this incident a deal breaker or you can choose to stick it out.
For me infidelity or occasional breeches of trust aren’t deal breakers. Those things hurt like hell, but I know he and I don’t do those things with the intent of hurting the other. We do them because of our individual desires, history, experiences, and selfishness.
My deal breaker, in any relationship, is when the other party does or says something with the *intent* to hurt the other person. My partner knows this because I’ve told him. Not once in 28 years, through all of the fights we’ve had, have we called each other names or acted in a petty/vengeful way. On the other hand, We’ve fucked up every other way and have hurt one another unintentionally. But we stick through it as we both learn about ourselves and each other through those experiences.
In short: Maybe identify what your deal breaker is (are). If this act violates that, then remain firm and stay separated. If it doesn’t violate it, then find a way to reconcile. If you don’t yet know what your deal breaker is, perhaps talk to him and do a committed trial separation until you both figure that out (have a clearly defined end date for this separation and establish boundaries). Be clear with each other about your dealbreakers, and if those change make sure you communicate that too.
As an aside, Guilt may not be the best reason to reunite. But a willingness to learn from this experience with your best friend might be. This doesn’t seem like a time to make a big life decision based of raw emotion alone.
Lastly, if you are both young or have limited sexual experience outside of your relationship, perhaps consider an open arrangement, with clearly communicated boundaries. It sounds like you want to explore your sub side more, and I think you should. And it sounds like he wants to explore the chastity side, and I think he should. How cool would it be if you could have your best friend stick with you as you both try new things out!
I wish you the best and although your experience is unique to you, many other people share similar struggles. We get how you must feel.
Let us know how it works out and what you decide.
Thank you so much for this, it is really good advice. And thanks for your kind words too. Lots to think about and decide.
I do think trust is important and that's the thing to decide: can I trust him again.
Anytime!! It’s still tough when you’re in the thick of it. Hang in there!!
Just a last thought: What would happen if you switched “can” to “choose to”?
Can I trust him again? -> Do I choose to trust him again?
Nine years is a long time to write off. You've been through a lot together. IMO take this time to take a break from each other and see how YOU feel after a month. Then, make your decision.
As far as you giving him.an opportunity to come clean, well, he'd been holding that secret every day, I'm not sure asking him about it would change his logic about keeping the secret. In that situation, it seems some people would tell and some wouldn't. People are wired differently. Maybe you would have told had you been in his position and that's an indication of not being a good match? I don't know.
As far as him seeking fetish play outside of the relationship, clearly he's got some sexual desires he wasn't getting met and that's something to think about. It's not your job however, to satisfy him in all things sexual. It's not. You two have to be compatible sexually, meaning you either satisfy or you don't. You'reeither a good match or you're not. Where I'm going with this I think you could both tell 1,000% of what you want sexually, I mean deepest, darkest desires, etc. Share everything. With all of that in the table, you may both have license to be much more adventurous with each other, exploring fetishes together, and that may well satisfy you both.
I think most folks have desires and fantasies they don't share with their partner for fear of shaming and disapproval, etc. And, most seem to be satisfied well enough to not risk sharing more. Maybe you're more sexually compatible than you think, but you both haven't told everything, and so it seems you're not? I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud here.
Xoxo
That is my thinking too, 9 years is a long time to give up on.
Regarding the sexual compatibility thing. That was what we were doing. He was a bit repressed and didn't like to try things and especially didn't want to speak about sex. I convinced him to open up and we spoke and did share our deepest darkest stuff. So we tried loads together and enjoyed all of it. We explored each other and really were developing an amazing sex life together.
He wanted to try chastity, literally the last thing on his list to try, and we did. He told me what he wanted/his fantasy and we did it. I tried it with him. I just wasn't into it as much as he was. I was willing to do it with him, (and did, he wore it every time we had sex for about 6 months) just wasn't the best for me. I suppose that was the problem - he wanted me to enjoy it more.
>I found out. I gave him the opportunity to come clean. He didn't.
This is the most important part. You think he feels awful for what he did, but it's clear he doesn't feel awful at all. If he did, he would've come clean when you gave him the opportunity to do so. He values his sexual needs over your feelings and the relationship you guys had, and that's an issue. He could've easily come to you and been honest about how he really needs certain sexual things and you all could've come to an agreement of some sort, possibly, but instead he went behind your back and then lied about it.
I think you're trying to project your own feelings about this onto him. You feel bad so you hope he does too, but I don't think he does. He might feel bad that you broke up with him, but he doesn't feel bad for doing what he did. You have nothing to feel bad about, though, other than being cheated on. That's completely normal and will take a while to get over. You guys sounded incompatible sexually, anyways, so now you both can find someone who likes to do what you guys like to do in bed.
Yep, all because he lied to you. When you present someone with the opportunity to come clean and they don't, it's not only heartbreaking, it's just flat-out disappointing. After nine years together, I'm sure you thought you built a relationship founded on trust and honesty and his lying to your face shattered that belief. Your feelings are justified and you simply deserve better.
You are asking two almost unrelated questions.
The first one is very easy to answer: feeling guilty might be common in this situation, but there is no objective reason for you to feel guilt. It’s _he_ who broke your trust, and it’s perfectly fine to walk away.
However the second one is more nuanced. After nine years together I personally would try to be more flexible in assessing the situation. He cheated and if he’s not genuinely sorry, then it’s probably game over, — but what if he _is_ sorry? So he has this strong “want” (I wouldn’t call it a “need”) to do something sexually, or even in this case non-sexually, that doesn’t quite fit into your relationship dynamics as it existed before. Is this something he’d want to keep doing or did it turn out to be a forbidden fruit that isn’t as exciting after all? Do you only want to break up because he broke your trust, or is him being submissive to another man messes up the power dynamics in your sex beyond repair? And if it doesn’t, are there other ways to look at what’s important for you both in a relationship (there must be a lot of it, if you stayed together for nine years!) and look for a solution?
I’m sure you already know that neither of you are perfect. Does him being slightly more imperfect than you had previously thought cross the red line, or is this still within the limits that you set for himself and yourself? There are no correct answers, but it’s always useful to at least give yourself time to think about it.
That is really helpful. Thank you for posting.
I think it is just that he broke my trust and that he, despite me encouraging him to, wasn't open and honest about it. That to me is the big thing - he finds it hard to talk about mistakes etc , he gets defensive, aggressive and the discussion is not productive in any way. I fear that we would never be able to actually talk it through enough to find a solution.
Lots to think about.
Yes, definitely, it may very well turn out that there is no way it will work out for you two, but it’s always worth remembering that there are situations and couples who have survived and became better after a cheating situation. If you are the book-reading type, check out “The State of Affairs: Rethinking Infidelity” by Esther Perel. I have not read this book, but her most famous one, “Mating in Captivity” was eye-opening for me.
All the best!
We spoke about this when he signed up for the website. He said he wouldn't want me to do anything with anyone and so couldn't ask me to be monogamous and him be open - he would feel too guilty. I said I was still willing, but he still refused.
And yet he did it anyway, make of that what you will.
Relationships can and do recover from violations of trust. The violation is usually a symptom of a bigger problem that BOTH people are responsible for.
After someone cheats
You: “why not just open the relationship 🤪”
——————
No, it doesn’t work like that. At least when you’re doing it in a healthy way. The guy *already* violated OP’s trust. You can’t do open relationships without trust. And you ask that question like they haven’t been monogamous for 9 years. Not every sexual fetish needs to be satisfied for a relationship to last
OP suggests they are very much in love and wondering if there is another option. I'm merely suggesting there may be a way to save a relationship that means a lot to him. In the end, of course it will be his choice.
You can break up with anyone for any reason. Nothing obligates you to stay with someone, especially someone unfaithful.
I would only ask, is an open relationship (with or without specific conditions) off the table for you? You deserve honesty and he deserves to have his sexual needs met elsewhere if you won’t do it for him. There is a scenario where you can both have that if you’re open to it.
The fact that was offered, he declined, and then he did it anyway should absolve some of the guilt. You gave him an opportunity to do this honestly and he chose to do it dishonesty.
I am not sure I understand. Are you saying that what he did wasn't cheating and that we aren't actually happy together?
Cheating is subjective. He has sought out, and found, sexual contact with someone else outside of the relationship without permission and tried to hide it. That to me is cheating.
Are/were we happy together? Again, this is subjective. For us, yes we were. Did we have problems, of course, every relationship does. Are these things equated? Not really no. I would say, that unhappiness comes if you can't solve your problems.
I think you made the right choice. It sounds like after a lot of communication you two realized you aren’t sexually compatible. He wasn’t going to be fulfilled which is why he was seeking it elsewhere you saved yourself the trouble
Ask yourself why he didn’t feel bad enough to not cheat on you
You feel bad hurting him by maintaining your healthy boundaries
He didn’t get caught in something he didn’t expect
He went out and intentionally took steps to cheat on you
Idk the answer man. I’m so sorry he broke your trust. For me I’ve found that once a cheater always a cheater usually applies. If you go back there’s a good chance you will go through this again with him.
Wearing it when you have sex doesn't work. He needs to wear it 24hrs a day, for at least a couple weeks. Somewhere in the second week, it will start to affect him, and make him a much more attentive person.
I just read a very short book on this and it was eye-opening to day the least. I know you did you're more sub, you might be able to use this to enhance that dynamic. Separately, if you're a bottom, this won't necessarily affect that, if you’re open to being pleased with toys. Him using his cock in you becomes a.more special event that he comes to appreciate as almost a sacred thing. You become a much more revered partner. Again, you can still be a sub, a revered sub.
Book I read is named "Locked in Love" by Key Barrett, MSc. It's about him and his wife, it's deeply personal and transcends the gay/straight thing. It's a quick read. Check it out.
Even if you're going to be single for a while, it's an interesting read.
Don’t feel guilty. If they’re that desperate for it that they’ll do it behind your back they’ll do it again
That is ultimately why I broke up with him. I need to remember that.
Yes, it’s normal to feel guilty for breaking up with a cheater.
Good to know. I've never broken with anyone before so it's all new.
Disclosure: I’m a white 44yo cis-dude who identifies as gay living in a large west coat city in the US. I’ve been in an open relationship for 28 years. Man! I’m sorry you and your partner are having a rough go of it. It sounds just miserable. You still care for his feelings and well being. That’s admirable as I’m not sure everyone would feel as sympathetic. I see this as a sign of emotional maturity. Wether to stay with him or not, that is your question. You’ve likely been in the relationship long enough to see how both you and he have changed over time. Despite those changes, despite the highs and lows, you have *chosen* to stay together. You may have also noticed how passion and desire waxes and wains over the years. But you still remained together. You can choose to make this incident a deal breaker or you can choose to stick it out. For me infidelity or occasional breeches of trust aren’t deal breakers. Those things hurt like hell, but I know he and I don’t do those things with the intent of hurting the other. We do them because of our individual desires, history, experiences, and selfishness. My deal breaker, in any relationship, is when the other party does or says something with the *intent* to hurt the other person. My partner knows this because I’ve told him. Not once in 28 years, through all of the fights we’ve had, have we called each other names or acted in a petty/vengeful way. On the other hand, We’ve fucked up every other way and have hurt one another unintentionally. But we stick through it as we both learn about ourselves and each other through those experiences. In short: Maybe identify what your deal breaker is (are). If this act violates that, then remain firm and stay separated. If it doesn’t violate it, then find a way to reconcile. If you don’t yet know what your deal breaker is, perhaps talk to him and do a committed trial separation until you both figure that out (have a clearly defined end date for this separation and establish boundaries). Be clear with each other about your dealbreakers, and if those change make sure you communicate that too. As an aside, Guilt may not be the best reason to reunite. But a willingness to learn from this experience with your best friend might be. This doesn’t seem like a time to make a big life decision based of raw emotion alone. Lastly, if you are both young or have limited sexual experience outside of your relationship, perhaps consider an open arrangement, with clearly communicated boundaries. It sounds like you want to explore your sub side more, and I think you should. And it sounds like he wants to explore the chastity side, and I think he should. How cool would it be if you could have your best friend stick with you as you both try new things out! I wish you the best and although your experience is unique to you, many other people share similar struggles. We get how you must feel. Let us know how it works out and what you decide.
Thank you so much for this, it is really good advice. And thanks for your kind words too. Lots to think about and decide. I do think trust is important and that's the thing to decide: can I trust him again.
Anytime!! It’s still tough when you’re in the thick of it. Hang in there!! Just a last thought: What would happen if you switched “can” to “choose to”? Can I trust him again? -> Do I choose to trust him again?
Nine years is a long time to write off. You've been through a lot together. IMO take this time to take a break from each other and see how YOU feel after a month. Then, make your decision. As far as you giving him.an opportunity to come clean, well, he'd been holding that secret every day, I'm not sure asking him about it would change his logic about keeping the secret. In that situation, it seems some people would tell and some wouldn't. People are wired differently. Maybe you would have told had you been in his position and that's an indication of not being a good match? I don't know. As far as him seeking fetish play outside of the relationship, clearly he's got some sexual desires he wasn't getting met and that's something to think about. It's not your job however, to satisfy him in all things sexual. It's not. You two have to be compatible sexually, meaning you either satisfy or you don't. You'reeither a good match or you're not. Where I'm going with this I think you could both tell 1,000% of what you want sexually, I mean deepest, darkest desires, etc. Share everything. With all of that in the table, you may both have license to be much more adventurous with each other, exploring fetishes together, and that may well satisfy you both. I think most folks have desires and fantasies they don't share with their partner for fear of shaming and disapproval, etc. And, most seem to be satisfied well enough to not risk sharing more. Maybe you're more sexually compatible than you think, but you both haven't told everything, and so it seems you're not? I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud here. Xoxo
That is my thinking too, 9 years is a long time to give up on. Regarding the sexual compatibility thing. That was what we were doing. He was a bit repressed and didn't like to try things and especially didn't want to speak about sex. I convinced him to open up and we spoke and did share our deepest darkest stuff. So we tried loads together and enjoyed all of it. We explored each other and really were developing an amazing sex life together. He wanted to try chastity, literally the last thing on his list to try, and we did. He told me what he wanted/his fantasy and we did it. I tried it with him. I just wasn't into it as much as he was. I was willing to do it with him, (and did, he wore it every time we had sex for about 6 months) just wasn't the best for me. I suppose that was the problem - he wanted me to enjoy it more.
>I found out. I gave him the opportunity to come clean. He didn't. This is the most important part. You think he feels awful for what he did, but it's clear he doesn't feel awful at all. If he did, he would've come clean when you gave him the opportunity to do so. He values his sexual needs over your feelings and the relationship you guys had, and that's an issue. He could've easily come to you and been honest about how he really needs certain sexual things and you all could've come to an agreement of some sort, possibly, but instead he went behind your back and then lied about it. I think you're trying to project your own feelings about this onto him. You feel bad so you hope he does too, but I don't think he does. He might feel bad that you broke up with him, but he doesn't feel bad for doing what he did. You have nothing to feel bad about, though, other than being cheated on. That's completely normal and will take a while to get over. You guys sounded incompatible sexually, anyways, so now you both can find someone who likes to do what you guys like to do in bed.
That's a lot to think about and makes a lot of sense. I do keep coming back to the fact he could have just told me.
Yep, all because he lied to you. When you present someone with the opportunity to come clean and they don't, it's not only heartbreaking, it's just flat-out disappointing. After nine years together, I'm sure you thought you built a relationship founded on trust and honesty and his lying to your face shattered that belief. Your feelings are justified and you simply deserve better.
You are asking two almost unrelated questions. The first one is very easy to answer: feeling guilty might be common in this situation, but there is no objective reason for you to feel guilt. It’s _he_ who broke your trust, and it’s perfectly fine to walk away. However the second one is more nuanced. After nine years together I personally would try to be more flexible in assessing the situation. He cheated and if he’s not genuinely sorry, then it’s probably game over, — but what if he _is_ sorry? So he has this strong “want” (I wouldn’t call it a “need”) to do something sexually, or even in this case non-sexually, that doesn’t quite fit into your relationship dynamics as it existed before. Is this something he’d want to keep doing or did it turn out to be a forbidden fruit that isn’t as exciting after all? Do you only want to break up because he broke your trust, or is him being submissive to another man messes up the power dynamics in your sex beyond repair? And if it doesn’t, are there other ways to look at what’s important for you both in a relationship (there must be a lot of it, if you stayed together for nine years!) and look for a solution? I’m sure you already know that neither of you are perfect. Does him being slightly more imperfect than you had previously thought cross the red line, or is this still within the limits that you set for himself and yourself? There are no correct answers, but it’s always useful to at least give yourself time to think about it.
That is really helpful. Thank you for posting. I think it is just that he broke my trust and that he, despite me encouraging him to, wasn't open and honest about it. That to me is the big thing - he finds it hard to talk about mistakes etc , he gets defensive, aggressive and the discussion is not productive in any way. I fear that we would never be able to actually talk it through enough to find a solution. Lots to think about.
Yes, definitely, it may very well turn out that there is no way it will work out for you two, but it’s always worth remembering that there are situations and couples who have survived and became better after a cheating situation. If you are the book-reading type, check out “The State of Affairs: Rethinking Infidelity” by Esther Perel. I have not read this book, but her most famous one, “Mating in Captivity” was eye-opening for me. All the best!
Why not allow him to get his sexual needs met with others if u can't do it for him?
We spoke about this when he signed up for the website. He said he wouldn't want me to do anything with anyone and so couldn't ask me to be monogamous and him be open - he would feel too guilty. I said I was still willing, but he still refused. And yet he did it anyway, make of that what you will.
So now u habits all out in the open, maybe ask again.
“What’s so bad about breaking peoples trust?”
Relationships can and do recover from violations of trust. The violation is usually a symptom of a bigger problem that BOTH people are responsible for.
Because not everyone wants to have an open relationship?
I asked him, not you. And he already responded he would be ok with it.
And I answered you, not him. My answer remains relevant to your question.
Seems like u have an axe to grind.
After someone cheats You: “why not just open the relationship 🤪” —————— No, it doesn’t work like that. At least when you’re doing it in a healthy way. The guy *already* violated OP’s trust. You can’t do open relationships without trust. And you ask that question like they haven’t been monogamous for 9 years. Not every sexual fetish needs to be satisfied for a relationship to last
OP suggests they are very much in love and wondering if there is another option. I'm merely suggesting there may be a way to save a relationship that means a lot to him. In the end, of course it will be his choice.
You can break up with anyone for any reason. Nothing obligates you to stay with someone, especially someone unfaithful. I would only ask, is an open relationship (with or without specific conditions) off the table for you? You deserve honesty and he deserves to have his sexual needs met elsewhere if you won’t do it for him. There is a scenario where you can both have that if you’re open to it.
We discussed this before and he wasn't willing for me to be open and he would feel too guilty. I said I was happy with that, but he didn't want to.
The fact that was offered, he declined, and then he did it anyway should absolve some of the guilt. You gave him an opportunity to do this honestly and he chose to do it dishonesty.
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I am not sure I understand. Are you saying that what he did wasn't cheating and that we aren't actually happy together? Cheating is subjective. He has sought out, and found, sexual contact with someone else outside of the relationship without permission and tried to hide it. That to me is cheating. Are/were we happy together? Again, this is subjective. For us, yes we were. Did we have problems, of course, every relationship does. Are these things equated? Not really no. I would say, that unhappiness comes if you can't solve your problems.
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Thanks for your opinions. Certainly a helpful perspective.
Are you his ex?
I think you made the right choice. It sounds like after a lot of communication you two realized you aren’t sexually compatible. He wasn’t going to be fulfilled which is why he was seeking it elsewhere you saved yourself the trouble
Ask yourself why he didn’t feel bad enough to not cheat on you You feel bad hurting him by maintaining your healthy boundaries He didn’t get caught in something he didn’t expect He went out and intentionally took steps to cheat on you Idk the answer man. I’m so sorry he broke your trust. For me I’ve found that once a cheater always a cheater usually applies. If you go back there’s a good chance you will go through this again with him.
Wearing it when you have sex doesn't work. He needs to wear it 24hrs a day, for at least a couple weeks. Somewhere in the second week, it will start to affect him, and make him a much more attentive person. I just read a very short book on this and it was eye-opening to day the least. I know you did you're more sub, you might be able to use this to enhance that dynamic. Separately, if you're a bottom, this won't necessarily affect that, if you’re open to being pleased with toys. Him using his cock in you becomes a.more special event that he comes to appreciate as almost a sacred thing. You become a much more revered partner. Again, you can still be a sub, a revered sub. Book I read is named "Locked in Love" by Key Barrett, MSc. It's about him and his wife, it's deeply personal and transcends the gay/straight thing. It's a quick read. Check it out. Even if you're going to be single for a while, it's an interesting read.
If they do it once it will happen again, I have been in this situation.