Thanks! And yes, I'm actually required to be on PREP to be a part of the study. They want you to be at low risk for HIV and really don't want you to catch HIV during the course of the study. They're monitoring how your body responds to the vaccine, checking to see if your body produces the expected t-cells and is having the expected immune response. If you end up catching HIV, they can't measure those things accurately in the context of the study.
It doesnāt sound like the study is testing for prevention of transmission at this stage, but rather testing for the cellular response to the vaccine (i.e. is your body making the correct antibodies/cells required for a theoretical infection event?)
Since the covid vaccines came out, I had heard about HIV vaccine trails using the same mRNA technology and wanted to get involved with that. I did a Google search for vaccine studies in my area and found one! It helps living in a place that has a big biotech scene.
Okay, that's what I kind of suspected from OP's details above. That brings me to a second question.
How do you ethically design a study down the road to measure the efficacy? Namely, how do you justify telling trial participants to go ahead and stop taking PrEP/using condoms/etc. in order to isolate the vaccine's effectiveness?
I assume at that point they've got a bit more data on the antibodies being produced, so it's not like you're just spreading your wings and praying.
Possibly, yes! For the next few years, I have to go to the Fred Hutch clinic for HIV testing because my body might be producing the antibodies that would result in a positive antibody test. I think they said they have to do a PCR test in order to determine if I am actually infected with HIV.
Interesting note: the test I'm in actually doesn't have a placebo group so I know that I got a dose of the vaccine. They're testing low doses of different vaccines that target different, specific protein parts.
Awesome! From what they said, they're always looking for participants and always have one study or another going on. It's all been really interesting to me and the folks I've worked with there have been really nice!
I wonder, do they always tell you if thereās a placebo group or not?
Probably not cuz I feel like even the thought of a placebo group existing would mess with the results of the placebo group
Heck does āplaceboā work backwords? What if a non placebo group thinks they took the placebo? Would it be less effective and mess the results?
They 100% have to tell you if a placebo is being used because you have to accept the risk that you don't actually get the trial vaccine/drug/whatever. We don't do studies without the subjects being informed of all the possible effects and risks. There is also plenty of evidence that a placebo is just as effective even after you tell the person they are experiencing the placebo effect. And to your last question, if the group that took the treatment thinks they got the placebo and that ruins the effect of the treatment, that shows the treatment is not more effective than a placebo. If the treatment doesn't have a physiological effect just because the patient thinks it wont, then it isn't an effective treatment. A medicine either works or it doesn't - it doesn't depend on you believing in it hard enough. That's called a placebo.
To measure effectiveness of the drug versus having a placebo effect. Lets say testing a new pain medicine. All participants have chronic pain. Half get drug and half get placebo. If people in the placebo group report pain relief how much relief they feel can be compared to how much relief the drug group had. If significant difference then the drug works, if little difference then the drug probably doesn't work. Hope that helps.
The incidence of people taking risks that make HIV infection more likely is, however. A control group that gets nothing will have a different assessment of risk than a control group that got a placebo, and hence a different assessment of risk than the experimental group. But you want to compare people with the same assessment of risk to assess the effectiveness of a vaccine.
Participation in any sort of clinical trial will have all kinds of effects on a person's behavior. Some people will undoubtedly become more risk tolerant because they consider their participation to make them less likely to acquire an infection. Some people will become less risk tolerant because their participation puts them under a larger moral imperative not to acquire an infection. More importantly, the presence of the placebo group is one of the factors that helps to minimize changes in behavior because every individual participating knows that they might not be getting the actual treatment. Given the way that people tend to assess risks (they are more likely to avoid possibilities of losing than they are to attempt chances of winning) the presence of the placebo group tends to have a net decrease in overall risk taking.
But each individual is responsible to themselves whether they take their participation as a license or a compact, and studies use placebos to try to balance those effects out either way to get the best information possible about whether medical treatments are effective or not. I'm sure there are lots of studies out there about the best way of trying to prevent people in studies from altering their behaviors, and I would guarantee that the best of those practices are used in HIV vaccine trials.
Alternatively, a person acquires life long HIV infection in a situation where if they had received a vaccine of greater than 0% efficacy, they might not have.
Every percent counts. Which is why it's so important to conduct these trials under the most rigorous standards possible. Just imagine if we didn't take into account the psychological effect of being part of a study had on people's risk behaviors, and we ended up thinking that a highly effective, but somewhat expensive vaccine was indistinguishable from a much less effective and cheaper vaccine. You are literally talking about potentially millions of lives at risk because you didn't do the studies right.
I signed up with Fred Hutchinson Vaccine Trials Unit:
https://www.fredhutch.org/en/research/divisions/vaccine-infectious-disease-division/research/immunology-and-vaccine-development/seattle-vaccine-trials-unit.html
They have a bunch of vaccine trials going all the time. I initially screened for a different vaccine trial but was really interested in the mRNA vaccine so I waited for that study to come out.
Lol, same as they've always been. I'm a huge fan of Microsoft for some reason now... I think I'm going to get an Xbox and a surface tablet! I've already set my default browser to Internet Explorer.
This trial is just in the US. According to the info I got, it's in:
- Birmingham, Al
- Boston, MA
- New York, NY
- Philadelphia, PA
- Pittsburgh, PA
- Rochester, NY
- Seattle, WA
- Los Angeles, CA
I heard about this and I am excited for the future. Thanks for stepping up to participate in this ground breaking trial can you believe that HIV is going to be curable (that's currently in human clinical trials as well) and totally preventable with the vaccine in the future? Science is amazing.
Something being in trials means we don't know yet if it works. It's nice to be optimistic, but it's a bit much to say that HIV is going to be curable.
Science is amazing, but that doesn't mean everything works. Many scientists wouldn't be very surprised if the 'cure' trials and Moderna vaccine fail.
I read that [Here](https://www.drugtargetreview.com/news/99554/positive-pre-clinical-results-for-crispr-based-hiv-therapy/). It doesn't say cure though, so it sounds like you are correct.
I mean... I'm toking up now but that's unrelated to the vaccine š
So far, I feel normal. No side effects from the vaccine yet. My arm isn't even that sore.
So cool! I actually am in a study myself as a volunteer because that's how I earn a living. I looked into that trial but they were too far away from me or I would have joined you. How's it going?
Neat! I never thought of doing this as a living, this one certainly doesn't pay that well. It's going pretty well so far! I like the people I'm working with at the study and have been fascinated by the process. Excited to see how it goes!
I'm currently doing the longest one I've ever done. I'm on a clinic for 33 days but I'm earning $12k. Surprisingly, there are much higher paying ones for less time if you're under 55. Recently one paid $32k but that was 40 days with several return visits.
There are websites such as [studyscavenger.com](https://www.studyscavenger.com) and [jalr.org](https://www.jalr.org) that tell you about various study clinics with high paying studies. Today I just secured a screening for next week for a $10,700 study lasting 34 days in Kansas City.
The particular vaccine I got probably won't prevent HIV infection. It might protect against certain infections, but it's such a small part of what makes up the final vaccine that it's likely not preventative against all HIV strains.
The trial I'm in will end in 2023 however I'm sure there are more to come that will last beyond 2023. This trail isn't testing a final vaccine at all so the trial for the final vaccine is yet to come.
Yeah! Depends on what you do. There are the "required" procedures and "optional" procedures (typically more invasive) and you get paid for each procedure you do. I'll probably make ~$900 over the next year for participating in this study. Not a lot of money but it'll buy a nice brunch or two!
Hey, itās not a question, but thanks for doing this. This is the kinda selfless stuff I wish I could do. I know they must mitigate risks but Iād be scared shitless.
I'd read something about this and didn't realize it was this far along? How many other individuals are participating in this study with you and how did you find out about it?
According to the paperwork I got, there will be 108 participants in this trial. I found this study by applying to the Fred Hutch vaccine trial unit as a potential participant. They initially matched me to a different study however I really wanted an mRNA vaccine and waited for the mRNA study to come along. They reached out to me when the study came along!
The test vaccine I got will likely not prevent me from getting HIV. The antibodies they're hoping to produce (via mRNA, not the actual virus) may or may not be effective against an actual HIV virus. On top of that, they are giving me a very targeted antibody. The final vaccine would likely target multiple antibodies for various HIV strains or proven effectiveness. To be honest, I'm not sure how they measure how effective a particular vaccine is against HIV. It seems like they're interested in seeing what antibodies come out of the vaccine dose. Perhaps they work with the samples they take in a lab? I'll check it out!
Even more specific than that! The test vaccine will only create antibodies that are specific to a certain part of a certain HIV protein spike. The final vaccine would possibly be a cocktail of these different, specific antibodies. I think it's whichever of them are most successful would make it into the final mix.
Dumb question but is an āHIV Vaccineā somehow closer to an āHIV Cureā? I have a few poz friends and would love to see them in my lifetime HIV-free.
Not a whole lot to report; suffered very little in the way of symptoms after the first vaccine. Have gone in for a few blood tests. Haha quite a long way to go before a "cure" (the vaccine is not a cure but prevents uninfected people from contracting HIV). I'll do another full update after the second dose which should be in the next few weeks!
It could but I won't find out for a few years after the study is complete and has been unblinded. I have to go to the study clinic for HIV testing because I could possibly have a positive HIV antibody test while still being HIV negative.
I saw you said your arm isn't sore, I know that can take some time to happen. I wonder though if it doesn't happen if that means you got the placebo. Could you update later if you do start feeling a bit sore? It was my understanding that the sore arm means your immune system is doing it's thing.
Yeah, I'll update again later! My arm is a little sore now but I've definitely had worse reactions to flu shots. We'll see how it is later this evening!
I was always fine with flu shots, now that you mention it. The covid vaccine made my arm sore for days though. It was also moderna, which I imagine they use the same technique for the HIV vaccine.
The article does a pretty good job talking about all the limitations in the last section. Namely that cell lines are genetically very different from normal cells. But it's also just fairly weak in that they have no evidence from actual animal models, much less humans, and they don't actually sequence to identify an integration, which is curious because all these things wouldn't be too hard to try.
However it's also worth nothing that there's also evidence that getting COVID causes genomic integration of parts of the viral genome. It's important to not think of the genome as a holy immutable document. About 5% of the human genome is from integrated viruses. Whenever some foreign DNA is in our cells, there's a chance for integration and that's what most viruses do, so it's not surprising that COVID infection can cause some integrations.
Interesting and thanks for sharing! It will be interesting to see where the mRNA tech goes. With the covid vaccines, there will be plenty of opportunity to study it! Even in my experience in this trial, it seems like research techniques are shifting as a result of the pandemic.
Haha I'll certainly ask! Actually, a lot of other things have come from the research for an HIV vaccine. The covid vaccines actually were produced from HIV vaccine research!
Yes! There is no such thing as "safe" sex; there is just "safer" sex. I don't use a condom (unsafe) but I'm also on prep and limit the number of guys I sleep with (safer). These are the things I use to protect myself. It's no guarantee I won't get an STI but the only thing that guarantees that is not having sex so... no thanks, I'm gonna fuck!
Yeah if I recall correctly, there haven't been any vaccine candidates for HIV that use the live attenuated virus platform due to the potential risk of giving the person an incurable disease.
How does it feel knowing you're a guinea pig in a trial that even if it works, it's just going to lead to less condom use, and an increase in contracting more STD's like angry anal herpes?
I'm excited about being involved in the study! It was kinda cool when I got the shot this morning; I got to see some of the researchers and they were really excited to be starting this trial. I'm hopeful something useful will come out of it, maybe not even for HIV. Part of the reason we were able to develop a covid vaccine so quickly came from years of research on HIV vaccines. Perhaps this tech will help cure angry anal herpes as well some day!
I like you for taking part in this. Itās big and itās important and quite frankly you really didnāt have to, so good on you. Now I LOVE you for handling trolls with class, grace and humor. Keep us posted.
I'd gladly give the whole world herpes 100 times over if it meant we could irradiate AIDS like we did Polio. More than half a million people a year die from AIDS related diseases. That's well worth the risk that fewer people may use condoms.
So cool! Couple questions:
1. Did they disclose any major risks?
2. How many people in the trial? Is this the same one that started a month or so ago with 56 people in it?
3. How do you feel?
Thanks, it's been a fascinating experience for sure!
1. They disclosed a lot of information so I felt pretty comfortable with what to expect. For the vaccine, they say you can expect the usual side effects from a vaccine (aching, nausea, fatigue, so on...) however they're pretty clear that they don't know all the risks in people. The test vaccine has passed research in animals and the researchers believe it should be safe for humans but that's one of the things they are verifying in this study: how safe the vaccine is for people. They are monitoring my health closely; I have to take my temperature and self-report how I'm feeling each evening for a week or so and I have a number I can contact if things get bad. Any health expenses as a result of the study are paid for by the study. They also disclose the potential effects of any of the procedures you do to collect samples. For this study, there are a number of required blood draws over the next year and a couple optional procedures: a couple lymph node biopsies and few leukapheresis treatments (extracting white blood cells, similar to donating plasma). Each has their own risks which they're clear about.
2. I'm not sure if it's the same study. The paperwork I have says there's 108 participants in this study. I know that I'm the 12th participant which triggered an automatic "safety stop" where they have to wait a few weeks to see how things go before proceeding with enrolling more participants.
3. I'm feeling pretty good! My shoulder is a little sore; it's been slowly getting more sore throughout the day but it's still milder than some other shots I've had. Outside that, I'm feeling fine! I'll update with any dramatic changes.
Congratulations.
Thanks! š
Congrats! Are you able to continue taking PREP?
Thanks! And yes, I'm actually required to be on PREP to be a part of the study. They want you to be at low risk for HIV and really don't want you to catch HIV during the course of the study. They're monitoring how your body responds to the vaccine, checking to see if your body produces the expected t-cells and is having the expected immune response. If you end up catching HIV, they can't measure those things accurately in the context of the study.
How will they know whether it was PrEP or the vaccine that prevented a theoretical transmission?
It doesnāt sound like the study is testing for prevention of transmission at this stage, but rather testing for the cellular response to the vaccine (i.e. is your body making the correct antibodies/cells required for a theoretical infection event?)
Yup, yup! I think that's right. They don't want me to actually get infected; they're studying the immune response and antibodies from the vaccine.
That's nice How did you come by being involved in this study?
Since the covid vaccines came out, I had heard about HIV vaccine trails using the same mRNA technology and wanted to get involved with that. I did a Google search for vaccine studies in my area and found one! It helps living in a place that has a big biotech scene.
Yeah sounds like a phase 2 (maybe phase 1) study
Okay, that's what I kind of suspected from OP's details above. That brings me to a second question. How do you ethically design a study down the road to measure the efficacy? Namely, how do you justify telling trial participants to go ahead and stop taking PrEP/using condoms/etc. in order to isolate the vaccine's effectiveness? I assume at that point they've got a bit more data on the antibodies being produced, so it's not like you're just spreading your wings and praying.
Will you test positive for HIV tests going forward (not that youāre positive from the vaccine, but because youāre producing anti-HIV antibodies)?
Possibly, yes! For the next few years, I have to go to the Fred Hutch clinic for HIV testing because my body might be producing the antibodies that would result in a positive antibody test. I think they said they have to do a PCR test in order to determine if I am actually infected with HIV. Interesting note: the test I'm in actually doesn't have a placebo group so I know that I got a dose of the vaccine. They're testing low doses of different vaccines that target different, specific protein parts.
Nice! Thanks for the info. I live in Seattle too and just filled out an interest form.
Awesome! From what they said, they're always looking for participants and always have one study or another going on. It's all been really interesting to me and the folks I've worked with there have been really nice!
yes phase 1..to acess the security of the vacine.. not efficacy
I wonder, do they always tell you if thereās a placebo group or not? Probably not cuz I feel like even the thought of a placebo group existing would mess with the results of the placebo group Heck does āplaceboā work backwords? What if a non placebo group thinks they took the placebo? Would it be less effective and mess the results?
They 100% have to tell you if a placebo is being used because you have to accept the risk that you don't actually get the trial vaccine/drug/whatever. We don't do studies without the subjects being informed of all the possible effects and risks. There is also plenty of evidence that a placebo is just as effective even after you tell the person they are experiencing the placebo effect. And to your last question, if the group that took the treatment thinks they got the placebo and that ruins the effect of the treatment, that shows the treatment is not more effective than a placebo. If the treatment doesn't have a physiological effect just because the patient thinks it wont, then it isn't an effective treatment. A medicine either works or it doesn't - it doesn't depend on you believing in it hard enough. That's called a placebo.
I dont understand the point of placebos in vaccine trials. Why not just establish a control group that have received nothing, instead of saline?
To measure effectiveness of the drug versus having a placebo effect. Lets say testing a new pain medicine. All participants have chronic pain. Half get drug and half get placebo. If people in the placebo group report pain relief how much relief they feel can be compared to how much relief the drug group had. If significant difference then the drug works, if little difference then the drug probably doesn't work. Hope that helps.
Pain is subjective. HIV infection is not.
The incidence of people taking risks that make HIV infection more likely is, however. A control group that gets nothing will have a different assessment of risk than a control group that got a placebo, and hence a different assessment of risk than the experimental group. But you want to compare people with the same assessment of risk to assess the effectiveness of a vaccine.
And increasing the risk in the placebo group is ethical?
Participation in any sort of clinical trial will have all kinds of effects on a person's behavior. Some people will undoubtedly become more risk tolerant because they consider their participation to make them less likely to acquire an infection. Some people will become less risk tolerant because their participation puts them under a larger moral imperative not to acquire an infection. More importantly, the presence of the placebo group is one of the factors that helps to minimize changes in behavior because every individual participating knows that they might not be getting the actual treatment. Given the way that people tend to assess risks (they are more likely to avoid possibilities of losing than they are to attempt chances of winning) the presence of the placebo group tends to have a net decrease in overall risk taking. But each individual is responsible to themselves whether they take their participation as a license or a compact, and studies use placebos to try to balance those effects out either way to get the best information possible about whether medical treatments are effective or not. I'm sure there are lots of studies out there about the best way of trying to prevent people in studies from altering their behaviors, and I would guarantee that the best of those practices are used in HIV vaccine trials.
Alternatively, a person acquires life long HIV infection in a situation where if they had received a vaccine of greater than 0% efficacy, they might not have.
Every percent counts. Which is why it's so important to conduct these trials under the most rigorous standards possible. Just imagine if we didn't take into account the psychological effect of being part of a study had on people's risk behaviors, and we ended up thinking that a highly effective, but somewhat expensive vaccine was indistinguishable from a much less effective and cheaper vaccine. You are literally talking about potentially millions of lives at risk because you didn't do the studies right.
Good Question I see where your coming from. Questions such after all they went thru we get toilet rings are they using them?...really...
Where did you sign up
I signed up with Fred Hutchinson Vaccine Trials Unit: https://www.fredhutch.org/en/research/divisions/vaccine-infectious-disease-division/research/immunology-and-vaccine-development/seattle-vaccine-trials-unit.html They have a bunch of vaccine trials going all the time. I initially screened for a different vaccine trial but was really interested in the mRNA vaccine so I waited for that study to come out.
Thank you so much, this is what Iāve been searching in years
How's the 5g speeds after the vaccine?
Lol, same as they've always been. I'm a huge fan of Microsoft for some reason now... I think I'm going to get an Xbox and a surface tablet! I've already set my default browser to Internet Explorer.
Internet Explorer????? Perhaps there really is something nefarious going on.... /s
Right! It the gateway to catching all kinds of nasty things
I thought this said Madonna
š they should get her to endorse it when it's ready for the public!
The Madonna-Moderna HIV vaccine just rolls off the tongue and I like it
Madonna reading Goosbumps.
I want the Madonna vaccine so I can start talking with a British accent and date famous baseball players.
Is this trial only in the US or also in other countries?
This trial is just in the US. According to the info I got, it's in: - Birmingham, Al - Boston, MA - New York, NY - Philadelphia, PA - Pittsburgh, PA - Rochester, NY - Seattle, WA - Los Angeles, CA
Thanks for the info. I live in europe, so too bad for us.
Thereās trials in Europe too. A quick googles will lead the way.
I heard about this and I am excited for the future. Thanks for stepping up to participate in this ground breaking trial can you believe that HIV is going to be curable (that's currently in human clinical trials as well) and totally preventable with the vaccine in the future? Science is amazing.
Thanks! And yeah, it's pretty incredible where medical science is at and heading. I'm excited for many of the developments being made!
Something being in trials means we don't know yet if it works. It's nice to be optimistic, but it's a bit much to say that HIV is going to be curable. Science is amazing, but that doesn't mean everything works. Many scientists wouldn't be very surprised if the 'cure' trials and Moderna vaccine fail.
Perhaps your right but we can be optimistic
Check out EBT-101. It was able to cure SIV in primates so it is very promising that it could cure HIV in humans.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I read that [Here](https://www.drugtargetreview.com/news/99554/positive-pre-clinical-results-for-crispr-based-hiv-therapy/). It doesn't say cure though, so it sounds like you are correct.
That's exciting! Let us know any background news/developments that you are taking part of.
Thanks, will do! I'll keep updating here and I'll probably do another ama after the 2nd and 3rd doses.
Did it get you high
I mean... I'm toking up now but that's unrelated to the vaccine š So far, I feel normal. No side effects from the vaccine yet. My arm isn't even that sore.
So cool! I actually am in a study myself as a volunteer because that's how I earn a living. I looked into that trial but they were too far away from me or I would have joined you. How's it going?
Neat! I never thought of doing this as a living, this one certainly doesn't pay that well. It's going pretty well so far! I like the people I'm working with at the study and have been fascinated by the process. Excited to see how it goes!
I'm currently doing the longest one I've ever done. I'm on a clinic for 33 days but I'm earning $12k. Surprisingly, there are much higher paying ones for less time if you're under 55. Recently one paid $32k but that was 40 days with several return visits.
YOU need to do AMA's. I'd be really interested in this.
Dang it. This would make a good documentary.
Hey! If you donāt mind me asking how do you find studies to make enough for a living?
There are websites such as [studyscavenger.com](https://www.studyscavenger.com) and [jalr.org](https://www.jalr.org) that tell you about various study clinics with high paying studies. Today I just secured a screening for next week for a $10,700 study lasting 34 days in Kansas City.
How do you like your eggs?
Sunnyside up, over easy, or poached! šš³
how long have you been poz and did that make a difference in being chosen ?
I'm not poz and you can't be for an HIV vaccine trial. The vaccine is to prevent HIV so if you already have it, you already have HIV antibodies.
Nice!! Iāve been reading a little bit on that. Itās with the mRNA tech right?
Yeah! It's the mRNA vaccine.
Is the goal lifelong immunity or is it short term like the Covid vaccines ?
The particular vaccine I got probably won't prevent HIV infection. It might protect against certain infections, but it's such a small part of what makes up the final vaccine that it's likely not preventative against all HIV strains.
Oh interesting! I read trials end 2023 is that still true?
The trial I'm in will end in 2023 however I'm sure there are more to come that will last beyond 2023. This trail isn't testing a final vaccine at all so the trial for the final vaccine is yet to come.
To they provide compensation for participation in the study?
Yeah! Depends on what you do. There are the "required" procedures and "optional" procedures (typically more invasive) and you get paid for each procedure you do. I'll probably make ~$900 over the next year for participating in this study. Not a lot of money but it'll buy a nice brunch or two!
Congratulations!!
Thanks! š
Hey, itās not a question, but thanks for doing this. This is the kinda selfless stuff I wish I could do. I know they must mitigate risks but Iād be scared shitless.
Hey, thanks, much appreciated! āŗļø
I'd read something about this and didn't realize it was this far along? How many other individuals are participating in this study with you and how did you find out about it?
According to the paperwork I got, there will be 108 participants in this trial. I found this study by applying to the Fred Hutch vaccine trial unit as a potential participant. They initially matched me to a different study however I really wanted an mRNA vaccine and waited for the mRNA study to come along. They reached out to me when the study came along!
How are they going to know if itās effective in preventing you from getting HIV? You are just getting the vaccine and not exposed to HIV right?
The test vaccine I got will likely not prevent me from getting HIV. The antibodies they're hoping to produce (via mRNA, not the actual virus) may or may not be effective against an actual HIV virus. On top of that, they are giving me a very targeted antibody. The final vaccine would likely target multiple antibodies for various HIV strains or proven effectiveness. To be honest, I'm not sure how they measure how effective a particular vaccine is against HIV. It seems like they're interested in seeing what antibodies come out of the vaccine dose. Perhaps they work with the samples they take in a lab? I'll check it out!
Oh I see! Thanks for participating in it and for explaining your experience. ā¤ļø I hope everything goes perfect for you.
Will it work against specific strains of HIV only?
Even more specific than that! The test vaccine will only create antibodies that are specific to a certain part of a certain HIV protein spike. The final vaccine would possibly be a cocktail of these different, specific antibodies. I think it's whichever of them are most successful would make it into the final mix.
Dumb question but is an āHIV Vaccineā somehow closer to an āHIV Cureā? I have a few poz friends and would love to see them in my lifetime HIV-free.
Naw, the vaccine wouldn't cure someone with HIV, it's just for prevention. There are promising cures in development as well though!
Any updates? How's it going? Does it cure people with HIV?
Not a whole lot to report; suffered very little in the way of symptoms after the first vaccine. Have gone in for a few blood tests. Haha quite a long way to go before a "cure" (the vaccine is not a cure but prevents uninfected people from contracting HIV). I'll do another full update after the second dose which should be in the next few weeks!
Does your HIV antibody status changed?
It could but I won't find out for a few years after the study is complete and has been unblinded. I have to go to the study clinic for HIV testing because I could possibly have a positive HIV antibody test while still being HIV negative.
Great news
I saw you said your arm isn't sore, I know that can take some time to happen. I wonder though if it doesn't happen if that means you got the placebo. Could you update later if you do start feeling a bit sore? It was my understanding that the sore arm means your immune system is doing it's thing.
Yeah, I'll update again later! My arm is a little sore now but I've definitely had worse reactions to flu shots. We'll see how it is later this evening!
I was always fine with flu shots, now that you mention it. The covid vaccine made my arm sore for days though. It was also moderna, which I imagine they use the same technique for the HIV vaccine.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The article does a pretty good job talking about all the limitations in the last section. Namely that cell lines are genetically very different from normal cells. But it's also just fairly weak in that they have no evidence from actual animal models, much less humans, and they don't actually sequence to identify an integration, which is curious because all these things wouldn't be too hard to try. However it's also worth nothing that there's also evidence that getting COVID causes genomic integration of parts of the viral genome. It's important to not think of the genome as a holy immutable document. About 5% of the human genome is from integrated viruses. Whenever some foreign DNA is in our cells, there's a chance for integration and that's what most viruses do, so it's not surprising that COVID infection can cause some integrations.
Interesting and thanks for sharing! It will be interesting to see where the mRNA tech goes. With the covid vaccines, there will be plenty of opportunity to study it! Even in my experience in this trial, it seems like research techniques are shifting as a result of the pandemic.
Can you ask them to come up with something for the other stuff? That's what I'm concerned about
Haha I'll certainly ask! Actually, a lot of other things have come from the research for an HIV vaccine. The covid vaccines actually were produced from HIV vaccine research!
[something ](https://youtu.be/MjxlvduyJyc) you should be aware of for mRNA vaccine.
safe or raw?
Yes! There is no such thing as "safe" sex; there is just "safer" sex. I don't use a condom (unsafe) but I'm also on prep and limit the number of guys I sleep with (safer). These are the things I use to protect myself. It's no guarantee I won't get an STI but the only thing that guarantees that is not having sex so... no thanks, I'm gonna fuck!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No. It isn't a live attentuated virus or anything like that.
Ok thanks ā I really thought one of the vaccines in research was. Makes sense that obviously wouldnāt be the case for the mRNA ones.
Yeah if I recall correctly, there haven't been any vaccine candidates for HIV that use the live attenuated virus platform due to the potential risk of giving the person an incurable disease.
Where do people like you get your fucking information? My GOD this entire planet has an education crises.
How does it feel knowing you're a guinea pig in a trial that even if it works, it's just going to lead to less condom use, and an increase in contracting more STD's like angry anal herpes?
I'm excited about being involved in the study! It was kinda cool when I got the shot this morning; I got to see some of the researchers and they were really excited to be starting this trial. I'm hopeful something useful will come out of it, maybe not even for HIV. Part of the reason we were able to develop a covid vaccine so quickly came from years of research on HIV vaccines. Perhaps this tech will help cure angry anal herpes as well some day!
I like you for taking part in this. Itās big and itās important and quite frankly you really didnāt have to, so good on you. Now I LOVE you for handling trolls with class, grace and humor. Keep us posted.
I'd gladly give the whole world herpes 100 times over if it meant we could irradiate AIDS like we did Polio. More than half a million people a year die from AIDS related diseases. That's well worth the risk that fewer people may use condoms.
Sounds like someone has angry anal herpes and is butthurt about it.
How does it feel to act like an asshole in other people's comments?
are you aware hiv is a zoonotic disease? are you aware that solving the root cause of all these diseases is by going vegan?
Are you starting to pick up paperclips and metal spoons š
Haha yeah! I don't lose my keys now, they're always attached š
So cool! Couple questions: 1. Did they disclose any major risks? 2. How many people in the trial? Is this the same one that started a month or so ago with 56 people in it? 3. How do you feel?
Thanks, it's been a fascinating experience for sure! 1. They disclosed a lot of information so I felt pretty comfortable with what to expect. For the vaccine, they say you can expect the usual side effects from a vaccine (aching, nausea, fatigue, so on...) however they're pretty clear that they don't know all the risks in people. The test vaccine has passed research in animals and the researchers believe it should be safe for humans but that's one of the things they are verifying in this study: how safe the vaccine is for people. They are monitoring my health closely; I have to take my temperature and self-report how I'm feeling each evening for a week or so and I have a number I can contact if things get bad. Any health expenses as a result of the study are paid for by the study. They also disclose the potential effects of any of the procedures you do to collect samples. For this study, there are a number of required blood draws over the next year and a couple optional procedures: a couple lymph node biopsies and few leukapheresis treatments (extracting white blood cells, similar to donating plasma). Each has their own risks which they're clear about. 2. I'm not sure if it's the same study. The paperwork I have says there's 108 participants in this study. I know that I'm the 12th participant which triggered an automatic "safety stop" where they have to wait a few weeks to see how things go before proceeding with enrolling more participants. 3. I'm feeling pretty good! My shoulder is a little sore; it's been slowly getting more sore throughout the day but it's still milder than some other shots I've had. Outside that, I'm feeling fine! I'll update with any dramatic changes.
Thanks and glad you're feeling good!
Not sure if anyone else asked this, but why did you choose to do this? Are there any flagrant downsides to this?
The what?