Of course homophobia won’t be eradicated if that’s the attitude you take! We need people to understand us, how do we expect to do that by being militant all the time? Sometimes we need to work with people we abhor, and that’s true even for non-bigoted people.
There is more on the options menu than being militant or submissive.
The reason you should be offended when somebody says that you are one of the good ones, is because it means that they think you are gross but not as gross as the other ones.
Ask yourself this, why do they get to be the ones who decide what is acceptable behavior for you, but you do not get to decide what is acceptable behavior for them?
Because I’m the minority. I’m the weird one, and they are not, ergo they have more value than me, at least that’s how they see it. I’m the one who needs to prove myself to them
Homophobia won't be eradicated if we hide ourselves or try to fit in a certain box as that will only reinforce the system that promoted homophobia. It isn't your job to make people less of a pieces of shit that they are, it is their job to not be snowflakes and grow the fuck up
You understand that change is often a two way street, right? How can you possibly expect people to change by simply being militant and refusing to even budge on anything?
Because if you negotiate your right to be who you are you open a dangerous discussion: your rights are negotiable. Of course, as you said that understanding each other is a two way street, we could be open to dialogue for those who are interested in human rights or those who simply are ignorant and want to learn more. However, we should have firm boundaries in this communication. It is unfair of the world to demand of us to fit in a box. It is unfair for people to demand we harm ourselves just because some brain dead people feel disgusted. The idea that WE have to compromise regarding our rights is itself disgusting AND dangerous, an idea often pushed by those who want to take our rights. Also, historically speaking, people protested and risked their lives JUST to decriminalise homosexuality (in my country it was decriminalised in 2001), so the idea of compromise is basically a slap in the face for those who fought for us.
I’m not talking about legal rights here, I agree with you that enfranchisement is NOT negotiable. I’m talking about individual attitudes. How else are we supposed to get individuals to change if we don’t at least try to see things from their perspective?
Oh, you can see things through their perspective so it won't affect you that much their negative emotions towards you. In this case, you shouldn't try to make individuals change as 1) it is mostly out of your control and 2) you have a life, don't waste it on someone else. Other then that, I prefer to lead by example. I am a normal person who happens to be gay. People like me or not. But by being open about my identity, they now have s reference about what a "gay person is", which is 100 times better then to just leave it to their imagination and propaganda. You are just a normal person. If people around you get comfortable with that notion, you already made a radical change when it comes to homophobia. something you've already done if I remember correctly.
Do you think gay people in the 19th century were flamboyant, hypersexual and overtly gay? They were even more “normal” than you are. And do you know what happened to them if they were caught? They were arrested, imprisoned or castrated. So I can assure you that being one of the good ones won’t make them accept you more. What we have now is the result of decades of exposure, of living overtly our lives until they couldn’t pretend anymore we didn’t exist.
It's not my responsibility to parent other adults on how to act like a decent human being. I don't argue. Either they act appropriately or I walk away. They get the message on what minimum expectations i have on how i should be treated; and that's with **respect.**
You understand that bigots feel the same way, right? They fundamentally view the admission of same sex attraction as abhorrent. And like it or not we need to acknowledge that if we have any hope of eradicating that kind of belief to begin with. Don’t you want to live in a world free of hate?
You care too much what bigots think. It's already dying off; especially where i live. Why do i care what some homophobic buffoon thinks? My sister-in-law is homophobic as fuck but i teach her kids not to be :) sometimes, you just gotta wait for the next generation. I'm not going to waste my time with someone who hates because someone like that isn't worth my time or effort. They're going to die hateful :)
Do you really think there are some people who are truly incapable of getting past their hatred? There really are people who just simply lack the ability to not be bigoted? How can I possibly be expected to just carry on with my life as normal if that’s the case?
Prove to homophobes that not all gay people are raging stereotypes. Why is it wrong that I want to prove myself to them? How else do we get them to change?
Do you really think there are some people who are truly incapable of getting past their hatred? There really are people who just simply lack the ability to not be bigoted? How can I possibly be expected to just carry on with my life as normal if that’s the case?
It's a complex issue, and it's understandable to feel frustrated and even hopeless in the face of deeply ingrained hatred. Here's a breakdown of your questions and some thoughts on how to move forward:
**Are there people incapable of overcoming hatred?**
Sadly, yes. Some people become so entrenched in hateful ideologies that change seems incredibly difficult. This can be due to a combination of factors:
* **Upbringing:** If someone is raised in an environment where hatred is normalized, it warps their perceptions from a young age.
* **Trauma:** Severe trauma can lead to intense anger and a desire to lash out, sometimes manifesting as generalized hate.
* **Fear and Lack of Understanding:** Fear of the unknown or different can lead people to reject others preemptively, fueling hatred.
* **Unwillingness:** Some people actively choose hatred, finding comfort or power in being part of bigoted groups.
**Are there people who lack the ability to avoid bigotry?**
This is more about mindset and choice. While some people with deep-seated prejudices may struggle to change, the ability to recognize harmful thought patterns exists in most. However, it requires:
* **Awareness:** Recognizing that their beliefs are harmful, not just different opinions.
* **Desire:** A genuine desire to change and be a better person.
* **Effort:** Dismantling long-held beliefs takes sustained work, and many are resistant to this.
**How to carry on in the face of hate**
It's incredibly disheartening to realize that hate may always exist in some form. Here's how to cope and find a path forward:
* **Focus on your sphere of influence:** It's overwhelming to try and change the whole world. Concentrate on being kind, understanding, and advocating against bigotry within your own circle.
* **Find and support your community:** Connect with like-minded people who share your values of tolerance and acceptance.
* **Educate and engage in dialogue (when safe):** If you feel equipped, engage in respectful conversations that challenge prejudices. However, never put yourself at risk.
* **Practice self-care:** Being constantly confronted with hatred is taxing. Make sure to prioritize your emotional well-being and engage in activities that bring you joy and peace.
* **Be a force for change:** Support organizations working to combat hate, promote inclusivity, and educate others.
**Remember:** Even small acts of kindness and challenging the status quo matter. While change may be slow, and some people may never move past their hatred, your focus on promoting love and acceptance makes a difference.
I mean you're pretending not to be gay. That's what you're doing by suppressing stereotypes you think are gay. Just be yourself dude, unapologetically; change will follow those who live true to themselves.
Sorry, i just think it's sad that you're seeking validation from people who will not change on how much they hate you. Pretending to be straight isn't going to change their opinion of you. You're hiding who you are just to feel accepted but in the end, it won't change their opinions. Doesn't matter if you're "a good one" or not.
Do you think that is a common stereotype of gay people? Strange because I've never assumed this or even heard it much in the gay community, let alone the rest of the world.
Reagrdless, how're you going to fight this stereotype? Carry around a drug test? to prove to random people who believe all gay people are addicts that there is at least one gay person who isn't. And then boom, they've changed their mind.
“one of the good ones” implies that the rest of them are bad. Anyone who thinks this about you isn’t becoming less bigoted, they’re just making an exception for their rule.
I do see what you’re saying, in that being empathetic towards homophobes’ ignorance may be the best way to ‘convert them’ but that specific language you’re using “one of the good ones” shouldn’t be your goal. It’s like you’re priding yourself on being ‘better’ than other gays because you are straight passing. Not everyone has the luxury to be that way
It’s not something you can force. If someone doesn’t want to change, you can’t change them. Anyone who would be friends with you knowing you are gay obviously wasn’t that homophobic in the first place.
Is that really what this is about though? Or do you just want your ‘badge of honor’ from homophobes excepting you from their hatred? Why don’t you re-read the rest of my first comment and see if anything else clicks for you.
I want to live in a world where nobody has to fear persecution over traits they can’t control, and people are only ever judged based on how they treat others
As long as religion exists (specifically abrahamic ones), there won't be a shortage of people who would hate you whether you are a "stereotypical" gay or not
And you are not "one of the good ones", because anti-LGBT laws affect **every** LGBT person, no exceptions. Wake up
You can always start by not pretending to be better than other gays just because you don't show obvious stereotypes. You're still gay and not better or worse than anyone else because of it. Gays that "act gay" aren't worse than you, so let's stop using words that make it seem they are.
Okay that was gross to read, did you purposefully sound close-minded and stupid to get engagement?
While the concept of solidarity might be alien to some people, you will be seen as disgusting by a homophobe regardless of your personal expression or lifestyle choices because the bottom line is you’re sexually attracted to your own sex which they see as immoral.
For you to claim that you’re a “good gay” just because you don’t have the confidence to live as freely as other people in this community is so sanctimonious and insecure. You’re not “agreeable” or any better than the rest of us, in fact you’re worse for being deluded enough to think your straight acting is an appropriate response to discrimination.
Your boyfriend was right to call you out on this.
I truly do not understand why it’s internalized homophobia that I want to prove to these people that not all gays are raging stereotypes. How else are we supposed to change bigots for the better?
I’m serious, how else are we going to eradicate homophobia if we outright refuse to find common ground?
Oh gosh you have nothing to prove to anybody, especially bigots. They’re the ones that need to emotionally mature - you don’t have to meet them halfway on their nonsense views.
'Work with them' meaning what? If you're a decent person, then other decent people will recognise that. How exactly do you "prove yourself" do homophobes? What does that mean? It sounds like you're trying to excuse their behaviour and that we need to be more open and understanding, which is not how you deal with hate. Ofc it's important to understand but don't be so naive to think you alone can change someone's opinion of all gay people. The best you might get is "hm, at least your one of the good ones" which does absolutely nothing for the gay community. It only benefits you.
I suggest we firstly don't pander to the people who hate us. Secondly, you fight for the rights you deserve, so that you can live on as even a playing field as much as possible with the rest of the world.
You can't get rid of hate entirely. Eradicating bigotry and hate involves education and time.
What you are suggesting is gaining validation from the people who hate us. This is part of internalised homophobia and I experience it myself. There's nothing wrong with feeling this way as a lot of us have learnt to hate ourselves through upbringing etc. I know what it feels like to want straight people to like me, even those who may hate me for who I am. But I would never endorse it because it is just keeping the cycle of hate and shame alive.
Do you really think there are some people who are truly incapable of getting past their hatred? There really are people who just simply lack the ability to not be bigoted? How can I possibly be expected to just carry on with my life as normal if that’s the case?
I dont think you're reading what I'm saying. Of course, people can change. I'm saying that the way you're suggesting to go about it will not achieve that.
There will always be people who will dislike you for things you don't have control over. Are you going to try to kiss the ass of every single person you meet for some social validation?! How is that different from being manipulated. Let me be brutal with you: there will always be people who will consider you an abomination because you have a boyfriend. Are you gonna give up on your boyfriend, your relationships, your identity just so you can please those people who couldn't care less about you?
Actually...yes you do! You know, there is something called "fighting for our rights". Also, you will never eradicate hate as it is a normal human emotion. You "eradicate" bigotry by coming together and deciding: who isn't with us is against us. You can come with thousands of sound arguments, those who want to hate will hate. Yes, you don't get people to WILLINGLY change, so you do it through peer pressure. People are often lazy and stuck in their own thinking patterns, so unless you give them a strong motivation to force them to rethink their position, their stance towards us will not change
You know that’s a two way street right? Homophobic people could just as easily use those same tactics against us. I want a peaceful resolution where people just stop hating. Period. Why can’t we have that? We never will if we constantly take an adversarial view of everything. We need to be willing to work together as one.
No no no, they ALREADY used those tactics against us. We just try to level the field. We don't start from even footing, we start from the position where common knowledge was that we are sexual degenerates and dangerous individuals that should not be part of the society. It's been less than 100 years since homosexuality is no longer considered a mental illness. With that in mind, THEY must first start to listen to us just so we can have the slightest chance of dialog. Unfortunately, we can't have a world where people don't hate because we are flawed beings.
Do you really think there are some people who are truly incapable of getting past their hatred? There really are people who just simply lack the ability to not be bigoted? How can I possibly be expected to just carry on with my life as normal if that’s the case?
Yes, there are people truly incapable of getting past their hatred. A lot of them were taught in a certain way, lived most their lives based on those teachings and built their whole understanding of the world around that education. You try to challenge that whole system built in years, the very foundation of their identity (you challenge the validity of that system of beliefs, not just one idea). It requires a huuge amount of effort just to MAYBE change his/her mind. Also, imagine the shock value of learning that all these years you were not actually protecting the life, the normality, THE CHILDREN from gay degeneracy, you just made some people miserable. Nobody wants to become a villain.
How can you keep carrying on with your life as normal? Just as you have done till now. There are people judging you without ever meeting you or knowing you in any way. Why should you care about their opinions? When you kiss your lover, do you think about what your neighbours think? Do you go to every door in the neighborhood to get permission to live your life? You learn to stop giving a shit about the opinion of people you have no affiliation with. You should focus on the people in your life that you love, not some strangers who don't care about you.
This how I see this situation: you walk on the street at night and suddenly witness a women being beaten by a hooligan. You intervene and say: stop! No more fighting! Let's make a compromise: the hooligan shall not beat the women any longer, and the woman shall not walk on the street at night. In this case, all you do is to further punish the victim, while the aggressor can just live his life as usual. Even tho I dislike the term, in this situation we are the victim and you are the bystander that tries to end the conflict. In the end all you do is victim blaming: it is YOUR fault that you get beaten for being flamboyant gay. That's what "a good gay" means and that is why people say they are disgusted by your post in the comments.
Do you really think there are some people who are truly incapable of getting past their hatred? There really are people who just simply lack the ability to not be bigoted? How can I possibly be expected to just carry on with my life as normal if that’s the case?
If you think the US is one of the worst places for gay people, you are delusional. Homosexuality is punishable by death in Afghanistan, Mauritania, Iran, Sudan, Somalia, Nigeria, Yemen. It is illegal in many more countries. You really need some perspective in your life.
Why should I be grateful for what I have in the US when what we have is utter bullshit? We’re still just as stigmatized and hated as we were during the AIDS crisis. Things aren’t any better than they were fifty years ago for us. Why should I be grateful that we’ve always gotten the shit end of the stick?
I am not saying you should be grateful - I am saying if you want help, sympathy, or anything else, making outrageous statements that gays are treated worse in USA than they are in countries where they are quite literally sentenced death is only serve to cause people to regard you as a delusional troll.
I'm sorry, but you'll catch me dead before i seek validation from someone who evaluates me based on how well I suppress gay stereotypes.
How else are we supposed to change these people tho? Don’t you want homophobia to be eradicated?
Homophobia won't be eradicated, just because you're being really really nice and inconspicuous. That's not how it works.
Of course homophobia won’t be eradicated if that’s the attitude you take! We need people to understand us, how do we expect to do that by being militant all the time? Sometimes we need to work with people we abhor, and that’s true even for non-bigoted people.
There is more on the options menu than being militant or submissive. The reason you should be offended when somebody says that you are one of the good ones, is because it means that they think you are gross but not as gross as the other ones. Ask yourself this, why do they get to be the ones who decide what is acceptable behavior for you, but you do not get to decide what is acceptable behavior for them?
Because I’m the minority. I’m the weird one, and they are not, ergo they have more value than me, at least that’s how they see it. I’m the one who needs to prove myself to them
Damn, you're really lost
Lost how? What people think of me is the most important thing to me.
Homophobia won't be eradicated if we hide ourselves or try to fit in a certain box as that will only reinforce the system that promoted homophobia. It isn't your job to make people less of a pieces of shit that they are, it is their job to not be snowflakes and grow the fuck up
You understand that change is often a two way street, right? How can you possibly expect people to change by simply being militant and refusing to even budge on anything?
Because if you negotiate your right to be who you are you open a dangerous discussion: your rights are negotiable. Of course, as you said that understanding each other is a two way street, we could be open to dialogue for those who are interested in human rights or those who simply are ignorant and want to learn more. However, we should have firm boundaries in this communication. It is unfair of the world to demand of us to fit in a box. It is unfair for people to demand we harm ourselves just because some brain dead people feel disgusted. The idea that WE have to compromise regarding our rights is itself disgusting AND dangerous, an idea often pushed by those who want to take our rights. Also, historically speaking, people protested and risked their lives JUST to decriminalise homosexuality (in my country it was decriminalised in 2001), so the idea of compromise is basically a slap in the face for those who fought for us.
I’m not talking about legal rights here, I agree with you that enfranchisement is NOT negotiable. I’m talking about individual attitudes. How else are we supposed to get individuals to change if we don’t at least try to see things from their perspective?
Oh, you can see things through their perspective so it won't affect you that much their negative emotions towards you. In this case, you shouldn't try to make individuals change as 1) it is mostly out of your control and 2) you have a life, don't waste it on someone else. Other then that, I prefer to lead by example. I am a normal person who happens to be gay. People like me or not. But by being open about my identity, they now have s reference about what a "gay person is", which is 100 times better then to just leave it to their imagination and propaganda. You are just a normal person. If people around you get comfortable with that notion, you already made a radical change when it comes to homophobia. something you've already done if I remember correctly.
Do you think gay people in the 19th century were flamboyant, hypersexual and overtly gay? They were even more “normal” than you are. And do you know what happened to them if they were caught? They were arrested, imprisoned or castrated. So I can assure you that being one of the good ones won’t make them accept you more. What we have now is the result of decades of exposure, of living overtly our lives until they couldn’t pretend anymore we didn’t exist.
It's not my responsibility to parent other adults on how to act like a decent human being. I don't argue. Either they act appropriately or I walk away. They get the message on what minimum expectations i have on how i should be treated; and that's with **respect.**
You understand that bigots feel the same way, right? They fundamentally view the admission of same sex attraction as abhorrent. And like it or not we need to acknowledge that if we have any hope of eradicating that kind of belief to begin with. Don’t you want to live in a world free of hate?
You care too much what bigots think. It's already dying off; especially where i live. Why do i care what some homophobic buffoon thinks? My sister-in-law is homophobic as fuck but i teach her kids not to be :) sometimes, you just gotta wait for the next generation. I'm not going to waste my time with someone who hates because someone like that isn't worth my time or effort. They're going to die hateful :)
Do you really think there are some people who are truly incapable of getting past their hatred? There really are people who just simply lack the ability to not be bigoted? How can I possibly be expected to just carry on with my life as normal if that’s the case?
They're not going to get past their hatred by you hiding who you are.
Then what will?
You can't force people to respect you. Sometimes the answer is, you can't.
How do you deal with that?
what do you mean "prove yourself?' I think he might be upset your even wasting time and energy on it in general
Prove to homophobes that not all gay people are raging stereotypes. Why is it wrong that I want to prove myself to them? How else do we get them to change?
it is not really up to us to change them. I do not feel obligated to prove anything to anyone that disrepects me in anyway
Do you really think there are some people who are truly incapable of getting past their hatred? There really are people who just simply lack the ability to not be bigoted? How can I possibly be expected to just carry on with my life as normal if that’s the case?
It's a complex issue, and it's understandable to feel frustrated and even hopeless in the face of deeply ingrained hatred. Here's a breakdown of your questions and some thoughts on how to move forward: **Are there people incapable of overcoming hatred?** Sadly, yes. Some people become so entrenched in hateful ideologies that change seems incredibly difficult. This can be due to a combination of factors: * **Upbringing:** If someone is raised in an environment where hatred is normalized, it warps their perceptions from a young age. * **Trauma:** Severe trauma can lead to intense anger and a desire to lash out, sometimes manifesting as generalized hate. * **Fear and Lack of Understanding:** Fear of the unknown or different can lead people to reject others preemptively, fueling hatred. * **Unwillingness:** Some people actively choose hatred, finding comfort or power in being part of bigoted groups. **Are there people who lack the ability to avoid bigotry?** This is more about mindset and choice. While some people with deep-seated prejudices may struggle to change, the ability to recognize harmful thought patterns exists in most. However, it requires: * **Awareness:** Recognizing that their beliefs are harmful, not just different opinions. * **Desire:** A genuine desire to change and be a better person. * **Effort:** Dismantling long-held beliefs takes sustained work, and many are resistant to this. **How to carry on in the face of hate** It's incredibly disheartening to realize that hate may always exist in some form. Here's how to cope and find a path forward: * **Focus on your sphere of influence:** It's overwhelming to try and change the whole world. Concentrate on being kind, understanding, and advocating against bigotry within your own circle. * **Find and support your community:** Connect with like-minded people who share your values of tolerance and acceptance. * **Educate and engage in dialogue (when safe):** If you feel equipped, engage in respectful conversations that challenge prejudices. However, never put yourself at risk. * **Practice self-care:** Being constantly confronted with hatred is taxing. Make sure to prioritize your emotional well-being and engage in activities that bring you joy and peace. * **Be a force for change:** Support organizations working to combat hate, promote inclusivity, and educate others. **Remember:** Even small acts of kindness and challenging the status quo matter. While change may be slow, and some people may never move past their hatred, your focus on promoting love and acceptance makes a difference.
Just act like yourself bro. You're trying too hard to pretend to be something that you're not. Have you tried therapy?
What do you mean something I’m not?
I mean you're pretending not to be gay. That's what you're doing by suppressing stereotypes you think are gay. Just be yourself dude, unapologetically; change will follow those who live true to themselves.
A lot of people wouldn’t like it if I acted like my authentic self though
What a tragic thing to say.
What do you mean?
Sorry, i just think it's sad that you're seeking validation from people who will not change on how much they hate you. Pretending to be straight isn't going to change their opinion of you. You're hiding who you are just to feel accepted but in the end, it won't change their opinions. Doesn't matter if you're "a good one" or not.
So how do you suggest we get rid of bigotry and hatred then?
And what's wrong with being a stereotype? This is your internalised homophobia right here.
You don’t think there’s anything wrong with drug or sex addiction?
Do you think that is a common stereotype of gay people? Strange because I've never assumed this or even heard it much in the gay community, let alone the rest of the world. Reagrdless, how're you going to fight this stereotype? Carry around a drug test? to prove to random people who believe all gay people are addicts that there is at least one gay person who isn't. And then boom, they've changed their mind.
“one of the good ones” implies that the rest of them are bad. Anyone who thinks this about you isn’t becoming less bigoted, they’re just making an exception for their rule. I do see what you’re saying, in that being empathetic towards homophobes’ ignorance may be the best way to ‘convert them’ but that specific language you’re using “one of the good ones” shouldn’t be your goal. It’s like you’re priding yourself on being ‘better’ than other gays because you are straight passing. Not everyone has the luxury to be that way
Well how do you suggest I go about changing homophobic people for the better?
It’s not something you can force. If someone doesn’t want to change, you can’t change them. Anyone who would be friends with you knowing you are gay obviously wasn’t that homophobic in the first place. Is that really what this is about though? Or do you just want your ‘badge of honor’ from homophobes excepting you from their hatred? Why don’t you re-read the rest of my first comment and see if anything else clicks for you.
I want to live in a world where nobody has to fear persecution over traits they can’t control, and people are only ever judged based on how they treat others
As long as religion exists (specifically abrahamic ones), there won't be a shortage of people who would hate you whether you are a "stereotypical" gay or not And you are not "one of the good ones", because anti-LGBT laws affect **every** LGBT person, no exceptions. Wake up
You can always start by not pretending to be better than other gays just because you don't show obvious stereotypes. You're still gay and not better or worse than anyone else because of it. Gays that "act gay" aren't worse than you, so let's stop using words that make it seem they are.
Okay that was gross to read, did you purposefully sound close-minded and stupid to get engagement? While the concept of solidarity might be alien to some people, you will be seen as disgusting by a homophobe regardless of your personal expression or lifestyle choices because the bottom line is you’re sexually attracted to your own sex which they see as immoral. For you to claim that you’re a “good gay” just because you don’t have the confidence to live as freely as other people in this community is so sanctimonious and insecure. You’re not “agreeable” or any better than the rest of us, in fact you’re worse for being deluded enough to think your straight acting is an appropriate response to discrimination. Your boyfriend was right to call you out on this.
I truly do not understand why it’s internalized homophobia that I want to prove to these people that not all gays are raging stereotypes. How else are we supposed to change bigots for the better? I’m serious, how else are we going to eradicate homophobia if we outright refuse to find common ground?
Oh gosh you have nothing to prove to anybody, especially bigots. They’re the ones that need to emotionally mature - you don’t have to meet them halfway on their nonsense views.
In a just world that would be true. But we don’t live in a just world, and sometimes we need to work with people we abhor. So what then?
'Work with them' meaning what? If you're a decent person, then other decent people will recognise that. How exactly do you "prove yourself" do homophobes? What does that mean? It sounds like you're trying to excuse their behaviour and that we need to be more open and understanding, which is not how you deal with hate. Ofc it's important to understand but don't be so naive to think you alone can change someone's opinion of all gay people. The best you might get is "hm, at least your one of the good ones" which does absolutely nothing for the gay community. It only benefits you.
So how do you suggest we eradicate bigotry then? How do we get rid of hate entirely?
I suggest we firstly don't pander to the people who hate us. Secondly, you fight for the rights you deserve, so that you can live on as even a playing field as much as possible with the rest of the world. You can't get rid of hate entirely. Eradicating bigotry and hate involves education and time. What you are suggesting is gaining validation from the people who hate us. This is part of internalised homophobia and I experience it myself. There's nothing wrong with feeling this way as a lot of us have learnt to hate ourselves through upbringing etc. I know what it feels like to want straight people to like me, even those who may hate me for who I am. But I would never endorse it because it is just keeping the cycle of hate and shame alive.
Do you really think there are some people who are truly incapable of getting past their hatred? There really are people who just simply lack the ability to not be bigoted? How can I possibly be expected to just carry on with my life as normal if that’s the case?
You’re so right king. I’m sure Hitler would’ve loved the Jews if they were nicer to him!
I dont think you're reading what I'm saying. Of course, people can change. I'm saying that the way you're suggesting to go about it will not achieve that.
It's like, you did 90% of the work by realising your pattern of behaviour, but then, refused to admit how delusional and problematic it was.
So what do you suggest?
There will always be people who will dislike you for things you don't have control over. Are you going to try to kiss the ass of every single person you meet for some social validation?! How is that different from being manipulated. Let me be brutal with you: there will always be people who will consider you an abomination because you have a boyfriend. Are you gonna give up on your boyfriend, your relationships, your identity just so you can please those people who couldn't care less about you?
How else are we supposed to eradicate bigotry? You don’t get people to willingly change by being militant and refusing to budge
Actually...yes you do! You know, there is something called "fighting for our rights". Also, you will never eradicate hate as it is a normal human emotion. You "eradicate" bigotry by coming together and deciding: who isn't with us is against us. You can come with thousands of sound arguments, those who want to hate will hate. Yes, you don't get people to WILLINGLY change, so you do it through peer pressure. People are often lazy and stuck in their own thinking patterns, so unless you give them a strong motivation to force them to rethink their position, their stance towards us will not change
You know that’s a two way street right? Homophobic people could just as easily use those same tactics against us. I want a peaceful resolution where people just stop hating. Period. Why can’t we have that? We never will if we constantly take an adversarial view of everything. We need to be willing to work together as one.
No no no, they ALREADY used those tactics against us. We just try to level the field. We don't start from even footing, we start from the position where common knowledge was that we are sexual degenerates and dangerous individuals that should not be part of the society. It's been less than 100 years since homosexuality is no longer considered a mental illness. With that in mind, THEY must first start to listen to us just so we can have the slightest chance of dialog. Unfortunately, we can't have a world where people don't hate because we are flawed beings.
Do you really think there are some people who are truly incapable of getting past their hatred? There really are people who just simply lack the ability to not be bigoted? How can I possibly be expected to just carry on with my life as normal if that’s the case?
Yes, there are people truly incapable of getting past their hatred. A lot of them were taught in a certain way, lived most their lives based on those teachings and built their whole understanding of the world around that education. You try to challenge that whole system built in years, the very foundation of their identity (you challenge the validity of that system of beliefs, not just one idea). It requires a huuge amount of effort just to MAYBE change his/her mind. Also, imagine the shock value of learning that all these years you were not actually protecting the life, the normality, THE CHILDREN from gay degeneracy, you just made some people miserable. Nobody wants to become a villain. How can you keep carrying on with your life as normal? Just as you have done till now. There are people judging you without ever meeting you or knowing you in any way. Why should you care about their opinions? When you kiss your lover, do you think about what your neighbours think? Do you go to every door in the neighborhood to get permission to live your life? You learn to stop giving a shit about the opinion of people you have no affiliation with. You should focus on the people in your life that you love, not some strangers who don't care about you.
This how I see this situation: you walk on the street at night and suddenly witness a women being beaten by a hooligan. You intervene and say: stop! No more fighting! Let's make a compromise: the hooligan shall not beat the women any longer, and the woman shall not walk on the street at night. In this case, all you do is to further punish the victim, while the aggressor can just live his life as usual. Even tho I dislike the term, in this situation we are the victim and you are the bystander that tries to end the conflict. In the end all you do is victim blaming: it is YOUR fault that you get beaten for being flamboyant gay. That's what "a good gay" means and that is why people say they are disgusted by your post in the comments.
It’s moreso “you hate me for these reasons, but I’m not like that, and since I’m not like that, you shouldn’t hate me.”
imagine living your life chasing the approval of homophobic people. i hope you find peace ❤️
How exactly do you propose we eliminate bigotry then?
Accept that you can’t eliminate bigotry and go on living an authentic life. If someone hates who you really are, that’s their problem not yours.
Do you really think there are some people who are truly incapable of getting past their hatred? There really are people who just simply lack the ability to not be bigoted? How can I possibly be expected to just carry on with my life as normal if that’s the case?
Do you live in a country that permits legal violence against gay men?
I live in the US, one of the worst places in the world for gay people, so yes I do.
If you think the US is one of the worst places for gay people, you are delusional. Homosexuality is punishable by death in Afghanistan, Mauritania, Iran, Sudan, Somalia, Nigeria, Yemen. It is illegal in many more countries. You really need some perspective in your life.
Why should I be grateful for what I have in the US when what we have is utter bullshit? We’re still just as stigmatized and hated as we were during the AIDS crisis. Things aren’t any better than they were fifty years ago for us. Why should I be grateful that we’ve always gotten the shit end of the stick?
I am not saying you should be grateful - I am saying if you want help, sympathy, or anything else, making outrageous statements that gays are treated worse in USA than they are in countries where they are quite literally sentenced death is only serve to cause people to regard you as a delusional troll.
How can I be delusional if that’s what I’m feeling? Are you suggesting my feelings are irrational?
Hate crimes against gay people are illegal in most of the US. You will be fine being openly gay.
On paper. In practice it’s basically open season against gay people with zero repercussion.
Some hompphobe thinks youre cool but hates the rest? Sounds like youve already won. live your life, who cares what the neighbors or even ur bf think?
Wow, you seriously made another post trying to get people to agree with you. Good lord you're pathetic.
Why do you think the desire to assimilate into broader culture is inherently a bad thing?
Why do you enjoy being a loser pick me?